Speaker 1: The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording
Speaker 1: themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters
Speaker 1: because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives.
Speaker 1: He just walked around shot all the black people. The
Speaker 1: cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure
Speaker 1: out how to go on and how to compete. I
Speaker 1: wanted to win for them more than anything this season.
Speaker 1: Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and
Speaker 1: I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas,
Speaker 1: it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find
Speaker 1: a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt
Speaker 1: to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the
Speaker 1: Baron bat On paper he was perfect, but in reality,
Speaker 1: this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious.
Speaker 1: I would call him and I would say, I know
Speaker 1: you killed my sister. You can listen to The Girlfriends
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcasts. This is the story of a man who's
Speaker 1: fascinated me. His name was Sweet Daddy Grace, and that's
Speaker 1: a name you don't forget. He was a visionary who
Speaker 1: built a fortune as a black man during Jim Crow
Speaker 1: during the Depression, but today not many people know about him.
Speaker 1: The race sort of wiped out, and I wonder if
Speaker 1: this was done intentionally. Listen to Sweet Daddy Grace on
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi,
Speaker 1: I'm free and I'm rthy. We have spent the last
Speaker 1: twenty years building and working at some of the largest
Speaker 1: companies in the world. We worked with some remarkable people.
Speaker 1: Rob mcalinney. When I see the people of Wrexham, I
Speaker 1: grew up exactly like them. Check out the ARTHI and
Speaker 1: Trrom show. That is a R D HI and s
Speaker 1: R I R A M show. Listen to the Art
Speaker 1: the Industry M Show on the iHeartRadio app Apple podcast Oh,
Speaker 1: whenever you get to your podcast BCIs Julia Evers Lady
Speaker 1: says Angela. Wagner's cell phone activity showed several disturbing entries.
Speaker 1: He never called Chris Senior like he told BCI agents
Speaker 1: after Chris died. Digital data plays such a huge role
Speaker 1: in all of these cases. You again to see these
Speaker 1: little electron red crumbs as to their activity. This is
Speaker 1: the Pike To Massacre. Returned to Pike County Season four,
Speaker 1: episode thirteen, The Digital Trail Courtney Armstrong, a television producer
Speaker 1: at Katie Studios with Stephanie Lydecker and Jeff Shane. It's
Speaker 1: important to note that Billy Wagner, George Wagner's father, whose
Speaker 1: trial is upcoming, has pled not guilty to all charges.
Speaker 1: We've so far heard reams of testimony from different ballistics experts,
Speaker 1: from the coroner who did the autopsies on the road
Speaker 1: in family, from the victims family members. Last episode we
Speaker 1: heard from Billy Wagner, and now we hear more from
Speaker 1: the rest of the Wagners. But the day begins with
Speaker 1: a hearing before judge during regarding the use of technology
Speaker 1: and media in the trial. Here's James Pilcher, longtime investigative
Speaker 1: reporter in Cincinnati, now with Local twelve. This is a
Speaker 1: big day for the media covering the trial because the
Speaker 1: day before, the Appeals Court ruled that whatever shown in court,
Speaker 1: we can show either through still photographs, streaming video, whatever.
Speaker 1: Because the judge had previously said he tried to put
Speaker 1: a ban on anything involving blood, involving miners, or involving bodies,
Speaker 1: and that's against the rules of jurisprudence in Ohio. Anything
Speaker 1: that's shown in court can be shown publicly. Now it's
Speaker 1: up to us to self censor. This morning's hearing is
Speaker 1: over how the appellate Court's ruling will affect the photos
Speaker 1: and videos that are presented in the trial moving forward.
Speaker 1: It harkens back to the beginning of the trial, when
Speaker 1: so much was about what would and would not be
Speaker 1: allowed to be released by the media. Post Defense attorney
Speaker 1: John Parker argues that jurors could go online and see
Speaker 1: images that were not previously introduced as evidence, and that
Speaker 1: that could taint the view of the defendant. George Wagner,
Speaker 1: the fourth and judge, during asked the prosecution about the
Speaker 1: possibility of the jury viewing sensitive material, in particular material
Speaker 1: that is not being admitted into evidence. Assuming the jurors
Speaker 1: are following the war's order, there's absolutely no reason to
Speaker 1: assume they're not, and they're not going to be looking
Speaker 1: at any type of media or being so sameing out
Speaker 1: of the media anyway. Yeah, that would be our position,
Speaker 1: or it's not very It doesn't be fished. In the end,
Speaker 1: Judge Daring sides with the news media and the prosecution.
Speaker 1: That morning, the judge has a hearing and says, hey,
Speaker 1: we've got to abide by this and from now on
Speaker 1: you go ahead and use the screens, but no that
Speaker 1: it's going to be it can be shown, and that
Speaker 1: the prosecution at that point had been going to the
Speaker 1: photographers and saying, hey, this is gonna have blood and
Speaker 1: it don't show it. Well, it was allowing the prosecutors
Speaker 1: to self censor, our censor what was going to be
Speaker 1: shown on what wasn't and that's really not what the
Speaker 1: court is supposed to happen. So yeah, that was a
Speaker 1: big day with the media policy clarified. The trial resumes.
Speaker 1: Special Prosecutor Angie Kinneppa her team called Ohio BCI Intelligence
Speaker 1: Supervisor Dana Forney to the stand. Forney was a criminal
Speaker 1: intelligence analyst at the time of the murders. In twenty sixteen,
Speaker 1: as investigators were looking into the Wagner's agent, Forney analyzed
Speaker 1: their cell phone data. Forny says she first looked at
Speaker 1: Billy Wagner cell records in the months and days leading
Speaker 1: up to the murders on April twenty first and twenty second,
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen. Forney has been working in the criminal intelligence
Speaker 1: unit for ten years. She wears a purple shirt with
Speaker 1: a black blazer and is calm and confident. On the stand.
Speaker 1: Forney lays out why she was looking into the phone
Speaker 1: records of Billy Wagner, father, the defendant and also accused murderer.
Speaker 1: Once Billy was interviewed by the investigative team, they requested
Speaker 1: the records to either collaborate or refute any statements that
Speaker 1: he made about his locations who he was calling. So
Speaker 1: the investigative team had asked me to just take a
Speaker 1: look at the records and create a map of where
Speaker 1: Billy was on the day of the twenty first and
Speaker 1: twenty second. Okay, and so did you do that? Yes,
Speaker 1: Anga Kineppa brings the map on the screen for the
Speaker 1: courtroom to see. It shows various cell towers and their
Speaker 1: relation to the three crime scenes, as well as the
Speaker 1: Wagner residences. Agent Forney also had access to the call
Speaker 1: log so she could see who Billy Wagner was calling
Speaker 1: and who was calling Billy on April twenty first, the
Speaker 1: day of the murders. There were several calls from Billy
Speaker 1: Wagner's son, George. The fourth, though stopped at around five
Speaker 1: forty four pm. It was at five fifty five pm
Speaker 1: when Billy made his last phone call of the day.
Speaker 1: The last outgoing call from this device that night of
Speaker 1: April twenty first was to Christopher Roden Senior. Billy Wagner's
Speaker 1: last call of the night was to Christopher Roden Senior.
Speaker 1: Chris Roden tried to call Billy back five separate times
Speaker 1: up until ten fifteen pm. Each time it went to voicemail.
Speaker 1: Previous testimony stated that Chris was likely murdered soon after
Speaker 1: eleven pm. Can you tell us did that device of
Speaker 1: Billy Wagner's ever make any attempts to contact Chris Senior's
Speaker 1: phone after receiving those series of calls the night before
Speaker 1: that were routed to voicemail. No, even though he checked
Speaker 1: his voicemail that following morning. Yes, did you see any
Speaker 1: evidence whatsoever that he ever called or attempted to call
Speaker 1: Chris Rodan Senior After that last call to him shortly
Speaker 1: before six pm on April twenty first of twenty sixteen.
Speaker 1: There were no outcoing calls from Billy's phone to Chris
Speaker 1: Rodan Senior. So the other thing that they found in
Speaker 1: those records, of course, was that he never called Chris
Speaker 1: Senior like he told BCI agents after Chris died. You know,
Speaker 1: he said he destroyed his phones and he got a
Speaker 1: new number because he kept getting upset at himself because
Speaker 1: he kept calling Chris Senior's phone by accident because he
Speaker 1: was a friend. Well, they proved that never happened using
Speaker 1: triangulation of the cell towers and the geolocation of Billy's
Speaker 1: cell phone. Agent Forney was also able to narrow down
Speaker 1: Wagner's location when he used his phone. When I conducted
Speaker 1: the analysis first of just his common towers. These were
Speaker 1: the most common towers in Billy's records, the two that
Speaker 1: serviced the area of the Flying W and the one
Speaker 1: that services the area of Peterson Road. The Flying W
Speaker 1: was where Billy Wagner's parents lived. Billy spent most nights there.
Speaker 1: The Peterson Road address was where Angela Jake and George
Speaker 1: Wagner lived. Prosecutor Krnapa asks about the location of Billy's
Speaker 1: cell phone the day of the murders and the day after.
Speaker 1: She also asked if there was a change in Billy's
Speaker 1: habits on those days. So significant to you would be
Speaker 1: if the last outgoing or incoming contact or communication was
Speaker 1: at a particular location at that night and then also
Speaker 1: in that same location in the morning. Correct, would state
Speaker 1: to you at a habit of spending the night or whatever. Yes,
Speaker 1: Kneppa pulls up on the big screen a calendar of
Speaker 1: Billy's cell phone locations during the month of April. This
Speaker 1: is April twenty sixteen's calendar of Billy's last serving cellsite
Speaker 1: and first serving cell site. Okay, and specifically you have
Speaker 1: the last cell site, which is the services the Peterson
Speaker 1: Road address, correct, Yes, at eleven o four pm. And
Speaker 1: then the first phone utilization the following morning also still
Speaker 1: located at Peterson Road. Correct. And why was that significant?
Speaker 1: I guess that on April twenty first the device was
Speaker 1: at Peterson Road when typically it would be at the
Speaker 1: flyin w There were just comments made to the investigative
Speaker 1: team about the family was all together that night, and
Speaker 1: we didn't know if that was common for them to
Speaker 1: all be together at Peterson Road. And again through kind
Speaker 1: of the end of April. Do you see that same
Speaker 1: pattern continuing as far as the Peterson Rode address. Yes,
Speaker 1: So then from that point forward you see a shift
Speaker 1: in the device's behavior that now the typical last serving
Speaker 1: cellsite and first serving cellsite the next morning are in
Speaker 1: the Peterson Road area. And the other thing they were
Speaker 1: able to show is that leading up to the murders
Speaker 1: that Billy up until then, his phone at night when
Speaker 1: he would go to bed was at the Flying w
Speaker 1: after the murders for at least a month and a half,
Speaker 1: except for the times they went to Alaska, it was
Speaker 1: at Peterson Road. So that was a major alteration in
Speaker 1: his behavior. On the day after the murders. Here's Stephanie
Speaker 1: and Jeff. And by the way, this is the very
Speaker 1: very first time I've personally ever heard that Billy Wagner
Speaker 1: accused fall that he wasn't sleeping home. And while this
Speaker 1: evidence doesn't necessarily tie George Wagner directly to the murders,
Speaker 1: it does support the prosecution's argument that the Wagners were
Speaker 1: in contact and were physically together the night of the murders.
Speaker 1: It's fascinating now that we can better understand the comings
Speaker 1: and goings of everyone based on their cell phones and
Speaker 1: it's always interesting to see behind the curtain a little
Speaker 1: bit about an investigation, cell towers, information regarding where their
Speaker 1: cell phones were. It kind of becomes this map, and
Speaker 1: in many cases that's extremely meaningful. I will say, in
Speaker 1: this case, again we're not seeing too too much yet
Speaker 1: about George, but it is certainly interesting to see where
Speaker 1: everybody else was in who they had been calling. In
Speaker 1: those final days, people were frustrated with law enforcements, timeline
Speaker 1: of how long it took to make arrests, or how
Speaker 1: the public felt like they didn't know what was going on.
Speaker 1: But I think this kind of police work just proved that,
Speaker 1: like you said, behind the curtain, there was a lot
Speaker 1: of investigative work happening that really helps not just getting arrest,
Speaker 1: but hopefully a commction. What's your inclination? Does that mean
Speaker 1: that Billy Wagner accuse father was calling victim father Chris
Speaker 1: rod In to see if he was home at that
Speaker 1: hour and doing sort of a scout to just see
Speaker 1: if typically he's home between those certain hours. I think
Speaker 1: it probably points to Billy Wagner knowing that every cell
Speaker 1: phone call is tracked or could be tracked, and he
Speaker 1: is planting some seed or trying to lay some sort
Speaker 1: of what will eventually be his defense. Good point. It
Speaker 1: should also be important to note stuff that while the
Speaker 1: cell phone data helps give an idea of Billy Wagner's
Speaker 1: location and habits before and after the murders, it doesn't
Speaker 1: actually detail what was said during these phone calls. More importantly,
Speaker 1: it doesn't specify how the Wagner's allegedly coordinated the killings.
Speaker 1: All of that is about to change with the next
Speaker 1: witness called by the prosecution, Julia Everslidge, a BCI agent
Speaker 1: who analyzed the search history, images and text messages on
Speaker 1: Angelo Wagner's phone. BCI's Julia Everslige says Angelo Wanger's cell
Speaker 1: phone activity showed several disturbing entries. Here's forensic medical examiner
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan. Digital data plays such a huge role
Speaker 1: in all of these cases. You begin to see this
Speaker 1: little what I refer to as electron bread crumbs as
Speaker 1: to their activity. Agent Everslidge wears a purple blazer and
Speaker 1: white shirt. She has dirty blonde hair that falls to
Speaker 1: her shoulders. On the stand, she speaks in a very
Speaker 1: matter of fact manner about the Google searches of Angelo Wagner.
Speaker 1: So the bottom line here is a Google search for
Speaker 1: Alaska houses for sale and what I believed to be
Speaker 1: in Seward, which is a city or a town in Alaska.
Speaker 1: A visit of a website Seward real Estate, Inc. And
Speaker 1: a second visit of that. Just a minute later, Prosecutor
Speaker 1: Kanepa and Agent ever Sledge walk through the various searches.
Speaker 1: There are many about houses for sale in Alaska, living
Speaker 1: in Alaska, jobs in Alaska, both before and after the murders.
Speaker 1: Here again, Joseph Scott Morgan. You know, we all go
Speaker 1: into a trial with a presumption of innocence in our system. However,
Speaker 1: when the prosecution is presenting this case to the jury,
Speaker 1: you have to draw upon the common sense of the
Speaker 1: jury and say it, isn't it interesting? You know that
Speaker 1: this individual might be searching out things like, you know,
Speaker 1: the nature of what it's like to live in Alaska,
Speaker 1: or you know, are are there jobs available, for instance,
Speaker 1: in Alaska. But Angelo Agner wasn't only googling about Alaska.
Speaker 1: The Google search is symptoms of sexual penetration in a toddler,
Speaker 1: and that took place on January eighteen, twenty sixteen. And
Speaker 1: then the final lineup at the top is Trauma Responses
Speaker 1: in Children, a website that was visited here again James Pilcher.
Speaker 1: You know, the other thing that came up from Angela's
Speaker 1: phone is that she had been searching for several months
Speaker 1: previously on signs of sexual abuse and a toddler. We
Speaker 1: know that they will later accuse the Rodents of or
Speaker 1: somebody in the Rodent family of abusing Jake's daughter. But
Speaker 1: one key thing that on Angela's phone which kind of
Speaker 1: got me to thinking about this paranoia about sexual abuse
Speaker 1: and rape. She looked up rape culture in Alaska. Now,
Speaker 1: if you're moving to a place, is that one thing
Speaker 1: you would look up, is that something you would google?
Speaker 1: Is there rape culture up there? So obviously it's front
Speaker 1: of mine in this family for her. We're going to
Speaker 1: take a break. We'll be back in a moment. Oh,
Speaker 1: I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting a podcast called The
Speaker 1: Girl Friends. In the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a
Speaker 1: few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob.
Speaker 1: He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and
Speaker 1: he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't.
Speaker 1: He really wasn't. He shouted, and to the point she
Speaker 1: went unconscious. Bob could lie about anything, but only takes
Speaker 1: the one time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob,
Speaker 1: us girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him
Speaker 1: to pay for his crime. He needed to be put
Speaker 1: to justice. I'll be honest with your FIS saw him
Speaker 1: right now, I'd spit on him. I would call him
Speaker 1: and I would say, I know you killed my sister.
Speaker 1: I will always hound you and haunt you. You can
Speaker 1: listen to the girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, Hello, Malcolm glabe here,
Speaker 1: host of Revisionist History, a show about the overlooked and
Speaker 1: the misunderstood stories you won't hear anywhere else. Like our
Speaker 1: ongoing obsessive campaign to blow up the world's most focused
Speaker 1: college ranking system. Why not just throw in a few
Speaker 1: extra zeros or witness me after years of fancy public speaking,
Speaker 1: learning that I kind of have to start over. The
Speaker 1: tone that you had throughout the debate was very similar
Speaker 1: to some of the students that I do work with,
Speaker 1: and that's what I teach them not to do. We're
Speaker 1: making more revisionist history for you this year than ever
Speaker 1: from places all across this great country emergency rooms, huge theaters,
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Speaker 1: your thumb up like the US. Are you gonna pull
Speaker 1: the trigger with this finger here? Okay? Listen to revisionist
Speaker 1: history on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcasts from iHeart podcasts. Whitney. Hell is going
Speaker 1: on here. Everyone has their limits. I'd never confronted a
Speaker 1: situation like this. I just thought it was just a
Speaker 1: really terrible, immoral thing, a line they won't cross. I
Speaker 1: was stunned, and I just said, no, we're killing people.
Speaker 1: You may never have to face that decision when you
Speaker 1: find yourself at that line. Its ricin. R's ricin, and
Speaker 1: somebody needs to just for once give everybody the whole truth.
Speaker 1: I'm like, this is evil, and the only person who
Speaker 1: can sound the alarm is you. I wasn't just going
Speaker 1: to sit silently. Buy from iHeart podcasts. These are the whistleblowers.
Speaker 1: If you are disloyal, things are going to happen to
Speaker 1: week out disgrace through our gun. Peovil play should be prosecuted.
Speaker 1: When power corrupts, conscience is the last line of defense.
Speaker 1: I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to the Whistleblowers on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name's
Speaker 1: Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and host of
Speaker 1: The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember my award winning
Speaker 1: first season. I've been pretty busy. There's always time to
Speaker 1: touch incredible guests about important things. People like me have
Speaker 1: been screaming for years. We've got to watch the Supreme Court.
Speaker 1: What they're doing is wrong, what they're doing is evil.
Speaker 1: They will take things away, and I can only hope
Speaker 1: that Dobbs is that like Pearl Harbor moment, girl, You
Speaker 1: and I both know what it took to just get
Speaker 1: through the day in New York City and get home
Speaker 1: in one piece. And so the fact that we're here
Speaker 1: and what you've achieved and what I've achieved, you know,
Speaker 1: that's momentous. It's not just sitting around complaining about some bills.
Speaker 1: The only reason that you might think, as Chase said,
Speaker 1: that we're always miserable is because people are constantly attacking us,
Speaker 1: and we're constantly noticing it. Listen to the Laverne Cox
Speaker 1: Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcast. Be sure to subscribe and share. The
Speaker 1: prosecution and Agent of a Slidge turned to Angela Wagner's
Speaker 1: searches in March, just one month before the murders. There
Speaker 1: are first searches on Facebook for Hannah May Rodin photos,
Speaker 1: an attempt to look at the friends of Hannah Roden's
Speaker 1: on her Facebook, and then another search on the same
Speaker 1: friends list of Hannah Roden. On March thirteenth, twenty sixteen,
Speaker 1: Agent of a Slidge reads Angela's search history. Just days
Speaker 1: after the murders. These were searches pertaining to the homicides themselves.
Speaker 1: On April twenty seventh, there was a Facebook search Rodin
Speaker 1: Family massacre. They were reading of comments from the search
Speaker 1: as well as Rodin Family shootings, and then reading of
Speaker 1: two articles pertaining to the homicides from the Inquirer. When
Speaker 1: you've got a person that is essentially the matriarch of
Speaker 1: the family and who many people have pointed to is
Speaker 1: kind of the brains behind the operation, and when you
Speaker 1: begin to see the searches that Angela was engaged in
Speaker 1: when you marry that up with the physical evidence that
Speaker 1: you have, and you see how of that plays out,
Speaker 1: then I think by extension you begin to compare these thinks.
Speaker 1: You know, well, you can searching thing you want to
Speaker 1: on your phone. It doesn't necessarily mean that you're guilty.
Speaker 1: The defense points out that Angela's search history doesn't prove
Speaker 1: that she acted on the information. However, the text between
Speaker 1: Angela and her husband, Billy Wagner do shuttle in their dynamic.
Speaker 1: Evislidge begins to read text messages aloud that were sent
Speaker 1: between Angela and Billy Wagner. Angela, I still love you,
Speaker 1: but I would like to spend some time with you,
Speaker 1: just you, not all of all our problems, Billy. That's
Speaker 1: not going to happen, and it's only going to get worse.
Speaker 1: Shit just starting, Angela, What are you talking about. I'm
Speaker 1: trying to understand, Billy. I am paring my head for disaster, Angela,
Speaker 1: for what your dad or Jake, Billy just everything has
Speaker 1: turned to shit all Angela. Yes, I agree with you.
Speaker 1: Can I help you in any way? Billy? Bullet to
Speaker 1: the head would fix me right up. She reads a
Speaker 1: text exchange four months before the murders. This one about
Speaker 1: Hannah Rodin Angela. All hell is happening here with Hannah
Speaker 1: and Angela. She is trying to keep Jake from getting
Speaker 1: her tomorrow. Billy, did you get her yet? Billy? You
Speaker 1: can run away with me Angela. I promise, if it
Speaker 1: weren't for and I would be gone. Billy, anytime you want, Billy,
Speaker 1: you just say the word and me, you and babies
Speaker 1: will be off on the big adventure. Billy, just give
Speaker 1: me a sign and I will come running. James Pilcher
Speaker 1: There were several between Billy and Angela that showed very,
Speaker 1: very tumultuous nature of the relationship. You know. Billy even said,
Speaker 1: I wish they could take you away. She said, yeah,
Speaker 1: if it weren't for the kids and the grandkids, I
Speaker 1: would go with you. But I'm with them. More messages
Speaker 1: about Billy and Angela Wagner running away together, sent three
Speaker 1: months before the murders. Billy, I am moving on. You
Speaker 1: are more than welcome to come bring babies and come on. Angela. Well,
Speaker 1: they are not our babies, and I would never do
Speaker 1: that to George and Jake. I would have killed someone
Speaker 1: if they would have even mentioned going away with my babies,
Speaker 1: and if you really missed me, you would do anything
Speaker 1: or go through anything for me. Here's Jeff and Joseph
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan. Again, it's interesting because I don't think any
Speaker 1: of her texts our Google searches totally point to George's guilt, certainly,
Speaker 1: but they do paint a picture of maybe the dynamics
Speaker 1: of the family. The way I've kind of come to
Speaker 1: view this case in context to everything is that Angela
Speaker 1: is essentially the hub of the wagon wheel, Okay, and
Speaker 1: everybody else that is involved in this, whether it was
Speaker 1: Jake or Billy or George who's currently on trial, they're extensions,
Speaker 1: They're like spokes and all of this. She's the hub
Speaker 1: that everything else radiates out from. And when you begin
Speaker 1: to take all of that into consideration, it does paint
Speaker 1: this picture of the world that these people existed in.
Speaker 1: They live in this world that's dominated by Angela. Prosecutor
Speaker 1: Kneppa and Agent Eversilage walk through text messages set nearly
Speaker 1: two months before the murders. Billy, it's a fine mess Angela. Well,
Speaker 1: maybe it is worth you helping me work it out.
Speaker 1: As the date of the massacre draws near, a particularly
Speaker 1: disturbing message, Billy, I got a plan if you just
Speaker 1: take one damn minute and listen. Angela Okay, tell me,
Speaker 1: Billy when I see you, this is the last time
Speaker 1: I am going to try. If the three of you
Speaker 1: don't take time to listen to me, then oh well, Angela, Okay,
Speaker 1: Stephanie and Jeff. At that time, remember Billy Wagner's father
Speaker 1: was dying. There was a crusty to dispute heating up
Speaker 1: between the Wagoners and the Rodents. So when he's talking
Speaker 1: about things being, you know, really bad, perhaps that's what
Speaker 1: he was talking about, not necessarily anything to do with murder.
Speaker 1: Knowing what we know now, you can put a lens
Speaker 1: on anything the Wagners did, whether it's something they google,
Speaker 1: something they said to each other, something they said in writing,
Speaker 1: where they went, what they did, all of those things
Speaker 1: can be scrutinized in a way that they couldn't before.
Speaker 1: Agent Evislage then turns to text messages sent between Jake
Speaker 1: and Angela. These were sent just one month before the murders.
Speaker 1: There was a conversation of interest because it appeared to
Speaker 1: have been discussing parts that were purchased. Jake Okay also
Speaker 1: at Okay, I've done paid for it all, but I
Speaker 1: do not need two three quarter inch stuff now, so
Speaker 1: see if you can return. If you can return it, Angela,
Speaker 1: I will take care of it, Jake, Okay. It's a
Speaker 1: die and two fittings that I do not need. Pick
Speaker 1: up the other die and bit still need them, Angela, Okay,
Speaker 1: we'll do. Did you pay cash or put them on
Speaker 1: your card Jake cash? Angela okay. And when you say
Speaker 1: that was of interest because it related to items that
Speaker 1: have been purchase, what are you talking about, specifically items
Speaker 1: that we believe we're used to build suppressors. There's information
Speaker 1: openly available on the internet about parts required or that
Speaker 1: can be used to make suppressors. Tap and dies, for instance,
Speaker 1: are parts that can be used. Drill bits that are
Speaker 1: long can be used, and those are just components that
Speaker 1: are used to build suppressors. When it comes to the
Speaker 1: testimony of Julia Evislage, she's kind of had access to
Speaker 1: the beating heart of information. She has a unique insight
Speaker 1: into this world that the Wagner's inhabited. Because you begin
Speaker 1: to think about, well, is it a matter of them
Speaker 1: being able to talk about these things open freely or
Speaker 1: are they going to have to create coded language in
Speaker 1: order to do this? In order to get messages through
Speaker 1: to one another. Evilage reads another text message with what
Speaker 1: appears to be coded language. George Wagner continues to stare
Speaker 1: at his feed. Jake ps look in the cabinet at
Speaker 1: the bottom of stairs, not finished yet and need one more? Angela,
Speaker 1: Are there pink bunnies there? Jake? One is Angela? What
Speaker 1: about sprinkles? Jake ain't got them yet. They are coming
Speaker 1: in mail and at Okay. Next Friday, Prosecutor Knappa asked
Speaker 1: the agents why she thought the words quote sprinkle and
Speaker 1: quote pink bunnies were quoded language. Well, first, there was
Speaker 1: a rush mention of and okay, which in the prior
Speaker 1: messages there were parts to be picked up or exchanged
Speaker 1: at okay, which I interpreted to be okay autoparts. There
Speaker 1: were known purchases that we identified later from various autoparts stores,
Speaker 1: and as well as the conversation the pink bunnies that
Speaker 1: was right on the heels of the discussion about the
Speaker 1: various parts. Regardless what you testified too could be used
Speaker 1: to make silencers. Correct. Yes, okay if you have an
Speaker 1: awareness where you feel as though you're gonna have to
Speaker 1: speak in coded language. Why in the world would you
Speaker 1: even offer up any conversation at all. As it turned out,
Speaker 1: you know, they were able to pick up multiplicity of
Speaker 1: communications that were going on, and you began to see
Speaker 1: this a little trail of electronic bread crumbs that have
Speaker 1: been created. Here again, Stephanie and Jeff, there's a lot
Speaker 1: made of Billy and Angela Wagner using code words when
Speaker 1: they're talking about sprinkles and in pink bunnies, And I
Speaker 1: don't know, that might be a little bit of a
Speaker 1: leap if you know, we're all working on the assumption
Speaker 1: that these are code words that could very well be
Speaker 1: But those code words could be for anything, you know,
Speaker 1: as mentioned, it could be for auto parts, it could
Speaker 1: be for drugs. It could also be for ingredients to
Speaker 1: make a cake. Yeah, step I mean, this is very
Speaker 1: circumstantial evidence, if it's even considered evidence at all, and
Speaker 1: it certainly doesn't point to George Wagner being guilty of murder.
Speaker 1: Local news jumps on this finding of quoted language text
Speaker 1: messages between Angela and Jake, which include pink bunnies and sprinkles.
Speaker 1: Nothing to do with cartoons or ice cream. The prosecution
Speaker 1: says they are code words for firearm accessories. That order. Now,
Speaker 1: today's testimony also took jurors to Montana's border with Canada.
Speaker 1: That's where agents intercepted the Wagners, who were driving back
Speaker 1: to the US from Alaska more than a year before
Speaker 1: they ended up being arrested. Next, the prosecution calls up
Speaker 1: agent Ryan Schuderer. He wears a gray suit with a
Speaker 1: purple shirt and tie and was the lead investigator in
Speaker 1: the Rodan family murders. The prosecution begins by laying out
Speaker 1: the evidence collected thus far in the investigation. So at
Speaker 1: this point, now you have collected ballistic evidence that we
Speaker 1: heard Matt White also talk about that matched the shell
Speaker 1: case scenes or cartridge casings that were fired at both
Speaker 1: scenes two and three. And we have the shoeprint evidence
Speaker 1: that has now been linked to the Wagners via the
Speaker 1: Walmart receive in the image of Angela Wagner. We had
Speaker 1: loose forge custody documents, et cetera. So various pieces of
Speaker 1: evidence that you have collected. Can you tell us then,
Speaker 1: did the signify a change or a shift in the investigation? Yes?
Speaker 1: And did Schiderer's calm demeanor reflects his years of experience
Speaker 1: with the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation. On the stand,
Speaker 1: he is serious and matter of fact. So at this
Speaker 1: point they're suspects. The Wagners now have become suspects and
Speaker 1: these crimes. But at this point is when you first
Speaker 1: had both ballistic and other physical evidence tying into the
Speaker 1: correct Before it was suspicion and things weren't adding up.
Speaker 1: Now we have evidence, We have physical evidence that says
Speaker 1: that somebody at that residence at two sixty Peterson Road,
Speaker 1: which the only people that lived there were George Wagner,
Speaker 1: Jake Wagner, and Angela Wagner, possessed the firearm that killed
Speaker 1: five people on Union Hill Road. Here again, investigative reporter
Speaker 1: James and Pilcher, that flicked a switch from them being
Speaker 1: people of interest to being suspects. That was a pretty
Speaker 1: team mollmate. But with the Wagners in their sites, investigators
Speaker 1: had a problem. When you have an investigation with multiple suspects,
Speaker 1: one of the things you want to do is get
Speaker 1: a statement from each one of those. Well, the best
Speaker 1: way to do that is to separated, right, You don't
Speaker 1: want them together when you talk to them, because they
Speaker 1: feed off of each other. So one of the things
Speaker 1: we wanted to do is figure out how can we
Speaker 1: get a statement from all four wagoners at the same
Speaker 1: time where they're away from each other, and can you
Speaker 1: tell us what plan did you come up with in
Speaker 1: order to effectuate that. Our plan was to intercept them
Speaker 1: at the border of Canada and the United States when
Speaker 1: they returned back from Alaska. Scheiderer testified that they made
Speaker 1: preparations with their sister agency in North Dakota to intercepts
Speaker 1: and interview the Wagoners at that entry point. Agents also
Speaker 1: wanted to listen to the conversations the wagoners were having
Speaker 1: on their phones and wanted to plant a listening device
Speaker 1: in the Wagner's vehicle. But to do this they needed
Speaker 1: a special warrant, the intercept warrant, so that you can
Speaker 1: receive the intercept warrant through Ohio. So the warrant is
Speaker 1: good for the county in which the crimes are committed.
Speaker 1: The investigators needed intercept warrants for both Ohio and North
Speaker 1: Dakota since that is where they would be installing the
Speaker 1: listening devices. Here again, Jeff and Joseph Scott Morgan, can
Speaker 1: you explain what an intercept warrant is? First off, in
Speaker 1: order to get the warrant, you have to be able
Speaker 1: to go to a judge and have them sign awfulness
Speaker 1: because you know, we have certain protections constitutional protections that
Speaker 1: extend out to warrants that involve listening devices. So you
Speaker 1: have to state specifically what you're going to be listening
Speaker 1: to and just think of it very simply like this.
Speaker 1: It's intercepted communications between parties of interests that are involved
Speaker 1: in a case. It's say, for instance, your suspect and
Speaker 1: they've gotten an intercept warrant for your phone. Well, if
Speaker 1: you're talking to another individuals, that might be a principle
Speaker 1: in the case that gathering of information might be permissible.
Speaker 1: You can't just collect everything randomly. There has to be
Speaker 1: a reason why this data is collected and to make
Speaker 1: it violable. From cordial We're going to take a break.
Speaker 1: We'll be back in a moment. Oh, I'm Carol Fisher
Speaker 1: and I'm hosting a podcast called The girl Friends. Back
Speaker 1: in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few of
Speaker 1: us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. He
Speaker 1: spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and he
Speaker 1: was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't.
Speaker 1: He really wasn't. He choked into the point she went unconscious.
Speaker 1: Bob could lie about anything, but only takes the one
Speaker 1: time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us
Speaker 1: girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him to
Speaker 1: pay for his crime. He needed to be put to justice.
Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now,
Speaker 1: I'd spit on him. I would call and I would say,
Speaker 1: I know you killed my sister. I will always hound
Speaker 1: you and haunt you. You can listen to The Girl
Speaker 1: Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Hello, Hello, Malcolm Gladwell here, host of
Speaker 1: Revisionous History, a show about the overlooked and the misunderstood
Speaker 1: stories you won't hear anywhere else. Like our ongoing obsessive
Speaker 1: campaign to blow up the world's most focused college ranking system,
Speaker 1: why not just throw in a few extra zeros or
Speaker 1: witness me after years of fancy public speaking, learning that
Speaker 1: I kind of have to start over. The tone that
Speaker 1: you had throughout the debate was very similar to some
Speaker 1: of the students that I do work with, and that's
Speaker 1: what I teach them not to do. We're making more
Speaker 1: revisionous history for you this year than ever from places
Speaker 1: all across this great country, emergency rooms, huge theaters, small towns,
Speaker 1: and shooting righteous And you want to put your thumb
Speaker 1: up like the US. How you're gonna pull the trigger
Speaker 1: with this finger here? Okay? Listen to revisionist history on
Speaker 1: the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcasts from iHeart podcasts. Witney hell is going on here.
Speaker 1: Everyone has their limits. I'd never confronted a situation like this.
Speaker 1: I just thought it was just a really terrible immoral thing,
Speaker 1: a line they won't cross. I was stunned, and I
Speaker 1: just said, no, we're killing people. You may never have
Speaker 1: to face that decision when you find yourself at that line.
Speaker 1: Bounce ricin, arn't ricin, And somebody needs to just for
Speaker 1: once give everybody the whole truth, like this is evil
Speaker 1: and the only person who can sound the alarm is you.
Speaker 1: I wasn't just gonna sit silently. Buy from iHeart podcasts.
Speaker 1: These are the whistleblowers. If you are disloyal, things are
Speaker 1: going to happen to speak out disgrace to our gun.
Speaker 1: Evil should be perfect. When power corrupts, conscience is the
Speaker 1: last line of defense. I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to the
Speaker 1: Whistleblowers on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcasts. My name's Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista,
Speaker 1: and host of The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember
Speaker 1: my award winning first season. I've been pretty busy. There's
Speaker 1: always time to touch incredible guests about important things. People
Speaker 1: like me have been screaming for years. We've got to
Speaker 1: watch the Supreme Court. What they're doing is wrong. What
Speaker 1: they're doing as evil. They will take things away. And
Speaker 1: I can only hope that Dobbs, is that like Pearl
Speaker 1: Harbor moment or you and I both know what it
Speaker 1: took to just get through the day in New York
Speaker 1: City and get home in one piece. And so the
Speaker 1: fact that we're here and what you've achieved and what
Speaker 1: I've achieved, you know, that's momentous. It's not just sitting
Speaker 1: around complaining about some bills. The only reason that you
Speaker 1: might think, as Chase said, that we're always miserable is
Speaker 1: because people are constantly attacking us, and we're constantly noticing it.
Speaker 1: Listen to the Laverne Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Be sure
Speaker 1: to subscribe and share with the intercept warrants for North
Speaker 1: Dakota and Ohio in place. Agents then traveled to North
Speaker 1: Dakota a boarding Air Force plane their plan to intercept
Speaker 1: the Wagoners on May twentieth, twenty seventeen. What happened when
Speaker 1: you arrived in North Dakota. We got off the plane
Speaker 1: and then we were alerted by Customs and Border Patrol
Speaker 1: HSI that we were in the wrong state. What do
Speaker 1: you mean by that? As the Wagners had exited Alaska
Speaker 1: to go into Canada, they had to declare their portamentry
Speaker 1: once they were trying to get back into the United States.
Speaker 1: At the point they declared, they were coming through sweet Grass, Montana.
Speaker 1: The agents then boarded another plane and headed to Montana.
Speaker 1: So now your timeline is shortened a little bit, and
Speaker 1: you are now in a state that you did not
Speaker 1: make the corporations with correct. Correct, and it's also on
Speaker 1: a weekend. Correct. Okay, So tell me what you did.
Speaker 1: We scrambled so kind of panicked a little bit. Law
Speaker 1: enforcements scrambled to redo the applications for the intercept warrants,
Speaker 1: this time in Montana. We spent most of the night
Speaker 1: obtaining those warrants because we had to write them. They
Speaker 1: had not been written yet. So sometime around five am
Speaker 1: Sunday morning, Montana time, we were alerted that the wagoners
Speaker 1: were making better time than expected and that they would
Speaker 1: be arriving at sweet Grass sooner than we thought. So
Speaker 1: we had to rush up to the border early that
Speaker 1: morning and await their arrival. Here again, James Pilcher, the
Speaker 1: wagoners went to Alaska one way, they crossed in North Dakota,
Speaker 1: so the investigators assumed they would come back the same way.
Speaker 1: Well they didn't. They indicated they were going to come
Speaker 1: back through Montana. So here they had flown on an
Speaker 1: National air Guard cargo plane with all of their stuff,
Speaker 1: had everything set up at the North Dakota border to
Speaker 1: intercept them, and then they found that, well they're going
Speaker 1: to be crossing in Montana in twenty four hours, that
Speaker 1: to hop the plane. Get on the phone with the
Speaker 1: Montana Attorney General's office make sure they had the permission
Speaker 1: for the warrants that they needed, so they worked around
Speaker 1: the clock, NonStop, when no sleep, and then stopped them
Speaker 1: at the Montana border in this tiny, little US Border
Speaker 1: Patrol facility that didn't have really the capability to interview
Speaker 1: for people separately, but that's what they did. At this point,
Speaker 1: I'm getting the impression that they're not just putting George
Speaker 1: Wagner on trial. They are showing the entire Pike County community,
Speaker 1: the entire state, at the entire country, what they went
Speaker 1: through to get here. They left Noah Stone unturned, even
Speaker 1: if they admit during some of this they made mistakes.
Speaker 1: Stephanie and Jeff I thought it was so interesting to
Speaker 1: hear the play by play of how authorities had to
Speaker 1: switch things up from North Dakota to the Montana border,
Speaker 1: and you know, you can kind of picture this and
Speaker 1: see how this is unfolding and how hectic it must
Speaker 1: have really been. And again, they've been tracking them for
Speaker 1: a long time, so the idea that they could have
Speaker 1: missed them and were able to adjust and switch their
Speaker 1: plan up pretty quickly, I thought was powering. I was
Speaker 1: I was frankly on the edge of my seat. And
Speaker 1: it goes back to behind the scenes. Law enforcement is
Speaker 1: working in ways that the public is not aware of.
Speaker 1: They were tracking this family and they were moving in
Speaker 1: real time as the Wagoners were moving to ultimately get
Speaker 1: the goods. With the Montana Intercept Warrens in hand, the
Speaker 1: agents intercepted the Wagoners at the border in Montana and
Speaker 1: were they each placed in a supper room hand interview
Speaker 1: attacks made with each of us. Yes, the gig was up.
Speaker 1: I knew we were looking at him. More on that
Speaker 1: next time. For more information on the case and relevant photos,
Speaker 1: follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. The Piked
Speaker 1: and Masker is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, Chris Cacaro,
Speaker 1: Andrew Arnow, Gabriel Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and
Speaker 1: sound designed by Jeff Ta Music by Jared Aston. The
Speaker 1: Piked and Masker is a production of iHeartRadio and Katie Studios.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
Speaker 1: your favorite shows. I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting a
Speaker 1: podcast called The girl Friends. It's Las Vegas, it's the
Speaker 1: nineteen nineties, and it is time to find a husband.
Speaker 1: There were four Jewish doctors who were felt to be
Speaker 1: eligible bachelors. One of them was a barrenmat. On paper,
Speaker 1: he was perfect, but in reality, this guy's a wackome.
Speaker 1: He shouted to the point she went unconscious. I would
Speaker 1: call him and I would say, I know you killed
Speaker 1: my sister. You can listen to the Girlfriends on the
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi,
Speaker 1: I'm free, Are and I'm rthy. We have spent the
Speaker 1: last twenty years building and working at some of the
Speaker 1: largest companies in the world. We worked with some remarkable people.
Speaker 1: Rob mcalinney. When I see the people of Wrexham, I
Speaker 1: grew up exactly like them. Check out the Art and
Speaker 1: Free Arm Show. That is a R D HI and
Speaker 1: s R I R A M show. Listen to the
Speaker 1: Art Instree Arm Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcast. This is the story
Speaker 1: of a man who's fascinated me. His name was Sweet
Speaker 1: Daddy Grace, and that's a name you don't forget. He
Speaker 1: was a visionary who built a fortune as a black
Speaker 1: man during Jim Crow during the Depression, but today, not
Speaker 1: many people know about him. The race sort of wiped out,
Speaker 1: and I wonder if this was done intentionally. Listen to
Speaker 1: Sweet Daddy Grace on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. From iHeart Podcasts and Nomadic Engine,
Speaker 1: the acclaimed dramatic thriller returns after Shock season two. He's
Speaker 1: like a ghost. We had an agreement to keep each
Speaker 1: other's secrets. None of you are making decisions to keep
Speaker 1: the rest of us safe, which leaves me. I'm asking
Speaker 1: for your forgiveness after Shock season two, starring Sarah Wayne
Speaker 1: Kelly's David Harbor and Jeffrey Dean Morgan. Listen to after
Speaker 1: Shock on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcasts.