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Speaker 1: The I Am Rappaport podcast is sponsored by Casper Mattresses

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Speaker 1: You get fifty dollars off the mattress. We do not plug,

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Speaker 1: we do not support, we do not take sponsorship from anything.

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Speaker 1: We have not tried, and we are not passionate about

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Speaker 1: four hundred and fifty. This is the I M rapp

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Speaker 1: Report podcast, which I'm here with Brett Morgan, who's the director,

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Speaker 1: who doesn't know about the worldwide phenomenon. That is the

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Speaker 1: Iron Rapp Report podcast. And that's all right, that's fine.

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Speaker 1: I'm fucking happy to be here. And let me just

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Speaker 1: give a quick Inchow, So Brett Morrigan is I know

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Speaker 1: you don't like me saying this, but I said it

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Speaker 1: when you weren't here, and I'll say it to your face.

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Speaker 1: Is a fucking a master, now you you, I have

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Speaker 1: to say with with the five films that I've seen,

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Speaker 1: a master documentarian, and and people probably most know him

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Speaker 1: for The Kids Stays in the Picture, which was a

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Speaker 1: game changer, and then On the Ropes, which was before that,

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Speaker 1: and then was it June seventeen, June seventeenth, which is

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Speaker 1: the thirty for thirty about the O J. Simpson Chase,

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Speaker 1: which if you haven't seen it, it's on iTunes. It's

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Speaker 1: on fucking you could get it anywhere. Okay, you can

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Speaker 1: get it on a Netflix. It's it's the O J. Chase.

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Speaker 1: And it's all we call it b roll or found footage.

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Speaker 1: There's no talking heads up for it's it's it's a masterpiece.

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Speaker 1: And then Crossfire Hurricane, and then most recently the Montage

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Speaker 1: of Heck, the Kurt Cobain documentary, and and me being

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Speaker 1: a fan of documentaries, I mean, just those five films

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Speaker 1: that I that I just named, I think I named five.

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Speaker 1: They're so eclectic and so different, and so impressive and

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Speaker 1: so the kids stays in the picture. You changed all

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Speaker 1: the ship just with the the visuals, the the animation,

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Speaker 1: or just the way it was told. Like you fucked

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Speaker 1: my head up with that. I saw that. I think

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Speaker 1: at the Arc Light I was gonna come talk to

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Speaker 1: you because I met you. Um when after the Tribe movie.

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Speaker 1: I think you said something nice to me and I

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Speaker 1: was like, fuck Morgan, and I had just seen Crossfire

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Speaker 1: Hurricane or whatever, which really fucked my head up, which

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Speaker 1: to me is it's there doesn't need to be another

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Speaker 1: Rolling Stones documentary like that to me is one of

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Speaker 1: the that that shuts down all the other ones. I

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Speaker 1: mean less some thing bad happens. I don't really know

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Speaker 1: what you can do with the Rolling Stones anymore. They've

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Speaker 1: been documented so much. And Crossfire Hurricane is is just

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Speaker 1: is a fucking feat When you when you approached Crossfire Hurricane,

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Speaker 1: did you know that you were gonna do it? The

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Speaker 1: film is told with no talking heads, like you interviewed

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Speaker 1: the Rolling Stones, but you never see them. You never

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Speaker 1: see what they're saying. You hear them. Did you know

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Speaker 1: when you were doing it that that was how you like,

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Speaker 1: what inspired you to do because to me that was

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Speaker 1: fucking ballsy. Well because on my movies up to now

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Speaker 1: take place in the past. But I try to I

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Speaker 1: try to present them in the presents hense, right, so

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Speaker 1: that they unfold, so that you experience them like fiction,

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Speaker 1: like as they're unfolding before your eyes. And when you're

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Speaker 1: dealing with subjects like the Stones or Bob Evans, um,

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Speaker 1: and you're you're meeting them at the point that they're seventy,

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Speaker 1: they're no longer threatening the point and these are very

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Speaker 1: These are people who who part of their appeal from

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Speaker 1: the beginning was their image. And so in order for

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Speaker 1: the audience to immerse themselves in the experience of these subjects,

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Speaker 1: you need to experience them in their prime, not as

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Speaker 1: old men looking back on their lives. And the thing

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Speaker 1: with talking heads um is that I arrived pretty quickly

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Speaker 1: at this idea that what to me, a frame is

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Speaker 1: a is a world of endless possibilities. A frame, a

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Speaker 1: frame of film, right, there's a ruld of endless possibilities.

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Speaker 1: And I'm always thinking, are we exploiting in this in

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Speaker 1: this moment taking are we taking advantage of the breadth

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Speaker 1: and width of what cinema has to offer to us.

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Speaker 1: We're not writing a book, and we were writing a book.

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Speaker 1: An interview is fine, but it's a movie. So in

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Speaker 1: a movie, I could take that audio and unless there's

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Speaker 1: something that's being communicated to me through how the interview

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Speaker 1: is being shot, I don't need to see it. So

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Speaker 1: I have the audio. Now I could put a picture

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Speaker 1: on it, and the the combination of the audio plus

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Speaker 1: the image create the meaning. So you're you're, you're doubling up,

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Speaker 1: You're you're allowed to be. And look, there's sometimes we're

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Speaker 1: seeing like a movie like The Look of Silence, which

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Speaker 1: I just saw, which is the sequel to the Act

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Speaker 1: of Killing. Obviously that's about seeing their faces. Oh, it's

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Speaker 1: it's all about the face. And you you can never

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Speaker 1: cut away there, you can never have a cutaway shot.

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Speaker 1: So so I just so so it started with the

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Speaker 1: kids says in the picture where I didn't want Bob

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Speaker 1: on camera because I didn't want it to be about

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Speaker 1: a seventy year old man looking back in his life.

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Speaker 1: I wanted the audience to experience things viscerally and to

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Speaker 1: experience the power of seduction of Bob's image and what

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Speaker 1: it became very clear as we could double up on

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Speaker 1: on d n A, on info and UM. And so

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Speaker 1: you look at it this way. If you have a

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Speaker 1: documentary and you have an interview and they're talking about something, Kay,

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Speaker 1: so you're getting the text. Now what am I? What?

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Speaker 1: Why else am I looking at this? And one of

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Speaker 1: the things in like montage even that the interviews were UM,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you noticed, but they all went

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Speaker 1: day tonight. I. Each each line was lit and shot

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Speaker 1: differently based upon the content. There's a movie called Lenny,

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Speaker 1: one of my favorite. That's one of my favorite movies.

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Speaker 1: A masterpiece, and when you talk about masterpieces gets forgotten

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Speaker 1: about a lot of times. Bob Fossey talked about being

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Speaker 1: a motherfucker the man. He's a motherfucker. Fossey is someone

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Speaker 1: who I feel like, like I was just talking to

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Speaker 1: my high school film teacher last night about this. My

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Speaker 1: evolution as a filmmaker probably went from when I was

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Speaker 1: a teenager Truphone Goddard, and then when I was in

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Speaker 1: my early twenties john Ford, and then in my thirties

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Speaker 1: Bob Fosse. That was like my sort of as I

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Speaker 1: came to like at these different and foss So Lenny

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Speaker 1: is something I always go to for inspiration. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you remember this, Michael, but in Lenny, it's

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Speaker 1: not a documentary, but there's these faux documentary interviews. Very

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Speaker 1: inspiring think to Montage because I literally I was on

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Speaker 1: set with the frame grabs of Lenny for my compositions

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Speaker 1: for the for the interviews with the Kurt's family. And

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Speaker 1: then in Lenny you go through, it's the right now

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Speaker 1: side shots, the profile shots, and you crossed the access

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Speaker 1: when you come to the front lower low angle, and

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Speaker 1: there's only three interview subjects. It's the mom, the wife,

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Speaker 1: and the business manager. Montage of Pack it's only the

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Speaker 1: primary relationship. And then in Lenny you get this vibe.

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Speaker 1: It's lit. It's fiction film, so it feels like you're

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Speaker 1: going day to night. So in Montage, I wanted the

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Speaker 1: audience to have that feeling that we're sitting with these

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Speaker 1: people and it's going over the course of day to night.

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Speaker 1: And part of that was, Okay, since I am gonna

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Speaker 1: do talking heads, we're going to make sure or that

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Speaker 1: each time they're talking it's lit to embellish them, so

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Speaker 1: we're communicating something through the lightning through them. None of

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Speaker 1: those were shot in people's homes, as we're all they

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Speaker 1: were shot in homes, but not the homes of the

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Speaker 1: people I got set for like Christa celic that's a

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Speaker 1: set up for Chris's girlfriend, that's a set yeah. So

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Speaker 1: so it was once again because as a director doing

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Speaker 1: archival based films, you have a very limited palette in

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Speaker 1: in in regards to how you can communicate to the audience.

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Speaker 1: So you have on it. If you're using archival, you

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Speaker 1: have color grading, montage, and sound designs. Right, that's it.

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Speaker 1: And if you're integrating talking head interviews, now you have

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Speaker 1: another element. So the question becomes how am I? How

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Speaker 1: am I directing that element? How am I? You know

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying and so and you and I both

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Speaker 1: know as because you've made documentary films that in general

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Speaker 1: what you have to do in a documentary just but

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Speaker 1: the nature of the beast is set the camera down

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Speaker 1: and talked to someone for three hours and you're not

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Speaker 1: changing the lining or because you don't know where it's

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Speaker 1: going to go on the film. But we did the

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Speaker 1: interviews after we knew where they were gonna get cut

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Speaker 1: in montage. So when you did the interviews, I had

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Speaker 1: already cut the film for the most you had already

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Speaker 1: cut the visuals. Yeah, I cut the visuals first. That

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Speaker 1: way the film would never be reliant on talking heads

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Speaker 1: because to me, so so you knew so so so

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Speaker 1: the answer so you went. So when you did Robert Evans,

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Speaker 1: when you did Kids Days in the Picture, did you shoot?

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Speaker 1: You didn't? To me is like fucking to me, that

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Speaker 1: is that is fucking ballsy as a motherfucker, because you know,

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Speaker 1: what if what if? I mean you knew there was

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Speaker 1: a plethree of archival stuff and you had the the photographs,

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Speaker 1: there were photographs, but you made those motherfucker's come to life.

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Speaker 1: We had to because there's no film footage, right, Okay,

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Speaker 1: but I mean those mother like the movie was like

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Speaker 1: singing because of it. And I remember sitting in the theater.

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Speaker 1: Now it's been done, you know, and and people have

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Speaker 1: seen it. But I remember when I was watching Kids

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Speaker 1: Days in the Picture, I was like, not in a

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Speaker 1: bad one, Like what the fund is going on here?

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Speaker 1: Because the the the animation or you know, the way

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Speaker 1: you were working on what the photos, It was like

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Speaker 1: it was like a whole other world that was happening,

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Speaker 1: you know, and it's and it's been done. What year?

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Speaker 1: How many years ago was that? That was two thousand.

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Speaker 1: It came out in two thousand, so we were doing

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Speaker 1: the effects in two thousand one. Okay, so it's a while,

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Speaker 1: but I mean that was a I mean, that was

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Speaker 1: a game changer as far as what it was was.

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Speaker 1: It was I think the moment when documentary has been

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Speaker 1: from analog to digital. That was that, I think because

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Speaker 1: we could talk about the technology, which was after effects

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Speaker 1: and we're still using after I did the journal photography

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Speaker 1: through after effects in montage AFFAC, but you did. But

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Speaker 1: so we use the same technology for different purposes. Right,

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Speaker 1: we made it look like it's handheld super eight footage

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Speaker 1: or whatever. Um. But with with up before kids days

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Speaker 1: in picture when people were dealing with ephemera, which is

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Speaker 1: any two dimensional photograph or journals or writings or anything,

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Speaker 1: they would shoot it on an animation stand with a

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Speaker 1: mound to fixed mounted camera that could zoom and it

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Speaker 1: could make up and down moves, but that was it

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Speaker 1: and it was always let Yeah, you could tweak the lighting,

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Speaker 1: but it was generally one in one lighting. Well, what

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Speaker 1: happened with the kid is we brought all of the

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Speaker 1: we scanned all the so now everything was digital, and

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Speaker 1: now we could manipulate the funk out of it, and

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Speaker 1: that had never been done before in nonfiction. It was

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Speaker 1: the first I think it was one of the first

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Speaker 1: movies ever to finish entirely in HD on the East Coast.

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Speaker 1: And so so that change, that was the game changer

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Speaker 1: for nonfiction in the sense that once everything got digital,

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Speaker 1: now filmmakers had access to visual effects. And at the

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Speaker 1: same time, reality television was taking off, and so verite

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Speaker 1: became more of a muted art form, and that I

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Speaker 1: think is why the genre is so sort of um adventurous. Now,

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Speaker 1: doctor dot genre because of doing straight docs feels like

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Speaker 1: reality television. It's just something amazing and unless the story

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Speaker 1: is just that compelled. And now we have digital technology

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Speaker 1: where we can do animation and motion graphics and you know,

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Speaker 1: some great effects works to create material to how bring

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Speaker 1: these stories to life. Okay, well you know that's like

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Speaker 1: you know, like doing a high wire act with no net,

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Speaker 1: not filming the fucking interviews. And so I just I

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Speaker 1: just I'm very impressed by that. And then and then

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Speaker 1: when with the Stones one with Crossfire Hurricane, you knew

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Speaker 1: obviously they had been documented tons there's videos, there's fucking movies,

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Speaker 1: there's pictures. I mean, it's throwing stones. They they are

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Speaker 1: really thoroughly documented. When you went into that, you you

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Speaker 1: knew you're not going to shoot the interviews. So what

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Speaker 1: were the parameters of here? Here's my great question. You

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Speaker 1: can answer the question within the question. What were like

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Speaker 1: when you shot them? Did you where they say? Did

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Speaker 1: the stones say, okay, you could shoot this for an hour,

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Speaker 1: you could shoot this for three hours? Did you do pickups?

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Speaker 1: And then how much of the footage that you used

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Speaker 1: in the film, all the b role from all the

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Speaker 1: other films, all the great films, particularly Gimme Shelter, Like

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Speaker 1: there's outtakes from Gimme Shelter or I don't know if

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Speaker 1: it's out takes or stuff that just wasn't used, because

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Speaker 1: I mean, they don't look any sexier than Gimme Shelter.

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Speaker 1: They're like, I don't know, they're strong, out of the mind,

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Speaker 1: but they look fucking cool as shit. So when you

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Speaker 1: go into go into cross Fire Hurricane, like what do

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Speaker 1: what do you know you can use? And like do

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Speaker 1: you have everything laid out? Like do you know like

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Speaker 1: you have run of the playground or or the like.

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Speaker 1: Do you know? Do you know what I'm saying? Because

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Speaker 1: I always assume I have run of the playground. You

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Speaker 1: always assume that I would assume that somehow we're gonna

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Speaker 1: when when I'm cutting, I don't worry about getting the rights.

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Speaker 1: I don't worry about rights, and I've and honestly, Michael,

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Speaker 1: this is gonna sound terrible, but um, in all the

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Speaker 1: years I've been doing this, I haven't been There's never

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Speaker 1: been a song I wanted to use that we weren't

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Speaker 1: able to figure out how to negotiate it. And there's

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Speaker 1: never been an image that the once one time on

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Speaker 1: the Kids says in the picture we need a Bud

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Speaker 1: Courts release and he wouldn't give it to us, really

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Speaker 1: he Uh, This I think will be the first time

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Speaker 1: every court is the is the kid from Hals, Harold

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Speaker 1: from Harold and Mad and so I don't know people

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Speaker 1: know this, but um, when you do. When you use

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Speaker 1: a clip from a Hollywood film, you have to get

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Speaker 1: because of SAG you have to get the actor's consent

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Speaker 1: and the rights to like the studio. You have to

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Speaker 1: license the foot film from the studio, which you got.

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Speaker 1: Then you have to make a payment to SAG for

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Speaker 1: the actor, and you need for films post seventy you

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Speaker 1: need the actor's content. So if someone wants to use

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Speaker 1: a clip of a movie, you're in. No one wants

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Speaker 1: to use a clip in the movie, but just say

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Speaker 1: from zebra If they wanted to use a clip from

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Speaker 1: zebra Head, they would go to the studio. They would

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Speaker 1: license it through the studio, but then they would have

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Speaker 1: to get yours. They would have to pay you as

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Speaker 1: SAG day rate ship for the clip for the clip.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that, and get your consent. So on

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Speaker 1: the kids says in the picture. You know, Bob talks

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Speaker 1: about everyone in his book, and there was this huge

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Speaker 1: concern that how in the world are we ever going

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Speaker 1: to get people to sign these consent forms. Well, Grading Carter,

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Speaker 1: the editor of Vanity Affair, is the producer of that. Well,

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Speaker 1: if there is anybody in Hollywood or not in Hollywood

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Speaker 1: who can get people to sign the release forms, its

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Speaker 1: Greating Carter. All right, So with great and on board

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Speaker 1: we get everybody to sign. It's a miracle. It's a

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Speaker 1: fucking miracle. Like people Bob talks endless shit about in

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Speaker 1: his buck. Ryan O'Neill, whatever, they're signing up. The only

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Speaker 1: one who wins Son was Bud Cort. We had a

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Speaker 1: one second shot from Harold in Mad Bud wanted Bob

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Speaker 1: to go pitch Harold in mod to to Sherry Lansing,

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Speaker 1: who is President Paramount at the time, in which Bud

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Speaker 1: would be the older character with a young girl with

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Speaker 1: character with a young woman. Yeah, which obviously this story

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Speaker 1: doesn't work. It doesn't work right as well with a

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Speaker 1: young girl and an older man and how Old and

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Speaker 1: wod two? It just doesn't sound good. It's a marketing thing.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't sound good. And Bob was never never and

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Speaker 1: and so that was the only but anyways short of that.

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Speaker 1: So going back to think about the Stones, Wait, so

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Speaker 1: bud Court was like fuck, But so bud Court was

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Speaker 1: the only actor out of tune or fifty six who

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Speaker 1: refused to sign their content for and and and that,

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Speaker 1: And he's the only person and the only the only

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Speaker 1: time in my career I was doing thwarted. Have you

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Speaker 1: heard from Bud Court since then? Maybe maybe Bud will

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Speaker 1: call us now? Um if uh so with the Stones,

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Speaker 1: we should pitch how Old and Wore two to him,

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Speaker 1: but say we're gonna recast it with somebody else and

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Speaker 1: would he be down for that, like, we just want

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Speaker 1: to make sure that you we have your blessing. So

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Speaker 1: so with the Stones, the Stones, I didn't want cameras

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Speaker 1: in the roombers when we they didn't tell me I didn't,

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Speaker 1: I couldn't use cameras. I just felt that the a

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Speaker 1: I didn't want to make a film about them looking

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Speaker 1: back on their youth. So I didn't want to do it.

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Speaker 1: Be I knew that the interviews would be UM a

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Speaker 1: lot better if they weren't cameras around um, just because

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Speaker 1: you thought they'd be more candid. Yeah, they'd be more candid, conversational. Um.

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Speaker 1: And economically, you know, if it would afford me the

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Speaker 1: opportunity to do if I need to do, you know,

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Speaker 1: eight hours instead of you know, if I want to

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Speaker 1: do four days instead of one, I'd have that freedom.

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Speaker 1: So you wouldn't need to hire a cameraman. You just

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Speaker 1: do it. So I did all the interviews, you know,

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Speaker 1: by myself, like this, just so I bring the sound gear.

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Speaker 1: It's really kind of simple like this, I mean, much

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Speaker 1: simpler than you're even smaller mis and this they weren't

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Speaker 1: on Keith slap fuck. So I got twenty pounds of

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Speaker 1: lead on my crotch rate right now, right now, But

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Speaker 1: it's a normal conversation. But we both do which is fine.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, so, um, so what happened was I think

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Speaker 1: Mick was my first interview and they thought that I

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Speaker 1: was gonna do maybe like I think they thought maybe

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Speaker 1: we could do making two or three sessions. Well, the

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Speaker 1: first session we got through one year and the session

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Speaker 1: lasted like two and a half hours and we just

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Speaker 1: got through. We didn't get past sixty two and it

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Speaker 1: was clear at that point there was that we were

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Speaker 1: going to need you know, Mick. I think ended up

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Speaker 1: being is a possibly fifteen different sessions. And how many

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Speaker 1: hours was was this? At the end there was no limit,

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Speaker 1: so I was how typical? Oh, I did about eighty

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Speaker 1: five hours of interviews with the band. So they were

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Speaker 1: the most extensive interviews ever done with the Rolling Stones. Keith.

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Speaker 1: Here's Keith, I remember very vividly Keith. They thought we

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Speaker 1: were going to do all of Keith in um a

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Speaker 1: day or two and that Keith would do the max.

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Speaker 1: Keith Jane his manager, So the max Keith can talk

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Speaker 1: is an hour and a half. You will never get

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Speaker 1: she goes, I'll be back here in an hour. Let's

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Speaker 1: plan on an hour. The first date, Keith and I

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Speaker 1: went three and a half hours and um, and they

355
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Speaker 1: would pop their heads in and he would tell them

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Speaker 1: to disappear. And we ended up doing. Keith and I

357
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Speaker 1: did four days at the Bowery Hotel and it was

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Speaker 1: fucking great. I smoked at the time. Yeah, and we

359
00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:08,760
Speaker 1: both smoked marbles and so um. I remember he comes

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Speaker 1: in and he puts his cigarettes down, and I put

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Speaker 1: my cigarettes down. I said, so, how much time you

362
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Speaker 1: got Keith? And he goes something like when the cigarettes

363
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Speaker 1: would have one though, it's time to go. And so

364
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Speaker 1: the next day he showed up and had a cartoon.

365
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Speaker 1: He was ready to go. I had a card on

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Speaker 1: the table. I was like, I'm ready, Keith, right, But

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Speaker 1: he was fun, I mean, And the thing was it

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Speaker 1: was Keith and me in a room by ourselves with

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Speaker 1: the shades drawn, smoking cigarettes and and he was having

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Speaker 1: um I think vodka and sun kiss or something. That's

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Speaker 1: a shocker. He drinks, but but actually he had the

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Speaker 1: first two days we did, he was drinking. Then he

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Speaker 1: when he was straight for the second session set of

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Speaker 1: sessions we did, which was interesting because the first ones

375
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Speaker 1: I thought were a little more fluid and um, yeah,

376
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Speaker 1: it was just like there was no especially with Keith,

377
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Speaker 1: there was no question off limits. You could just ask

378
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Speaker 1: them what what are you gonna What are you gonna

379
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:07,119
Speaker 1: ask Keith Richards. That's like there's no skeletons in the closet,

380
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Speaker 1: you know, Um, did you say did you get don't

381
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Speaker 1: ask about this? Don't ask had final cut, so he

382
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:21,119
Speaker 1: knew just well, okay, So the way it works in

383
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Speaker 1: the band with film productions, for say, you know, mix

384
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Speaker 1: spearheaded the film. It was his film, it was his project,

385
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Speaker 1: so he reached out to you. He reached out to me.

386
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Speaker 1: He hired me awf of Kids Stays in the Picture

387
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Speaker 1: off of Kids Stays in the Picture. Yeah, and he

388
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:40,200
Speaker 1: was like, we want to do this. He called me up,

389
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Speaker 1: um and said, uh, we want to make a film.

390
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Speaker 1: It's gonna be our fiftieth anniversary next year. We want

391
00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:49,720
Speaker 1: to make a movie. I don't want to do a

392
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Speaker 1: mini series. I just want to make a film. And

393
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Speaker 1: I wanted to feel like a movie. I don't want

394
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Speaker 1: it to feel like you know, um, a talking head,

395
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Speaker 1: you know, run through by the number. He said that yeah,

396
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:03,600
Speaker 1: that's cool. In fact, what he did say I remember

397
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Speaker 1: on the first call was he's like, I think you

398
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:10,080
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna do my make I can out of context,

399
00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:13,280
Speaker 1: but he does. He said, um, but I will say this,

400
00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:15,359
Speaker 1: he's the only person who ever pronounced my name with

401
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:21,600
Speaker 1: five teas at the end no Brett. Ah, well Brett.

402
00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:27,560
Speaker 1: It was cutting, very cutting, because that's you know, you know,

403
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:29,880
Speaker 1: like a Keith. He's not even using a team. It's

404
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:37,440
Speaker 1: like your name is well, I don't know Brett anyway, um,

405
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:39,399
Speaker 1: and you feel like you're eleven every time he says it.

406
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:45,640
Speaker 1: He uh so, knowing that he had at the end

407
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:47,440
Speaker 1: of the day was gonna It's not like he's sitting

408
00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:48,919
Speaker 1: in the edit room with him, but he knows he

409
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,440
Speaker 1: can take something out if he doesn't want it. Then

410
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:54,840
Speaker 1: nothing's off limits. And in a way, you get more.

411
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,240
Speaker 1: I mean it is it's a freedom because and then

412
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Speaker 1: you could be like I got you. I ended up

413
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,880
Speaker 1: getting so much more than it would have ever got

414
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:07,280
Speaker 1: if we didn't have that arrangement. There were subjects that

415
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,560
Speaker 1: he would have just shot down. He didn't. He wouldn't

416
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:11,359
Speaker 1: want to talk to shown, especially if you were on

417
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Speaker 1: camera too, right, so I I I figured with Mick

418
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Speaker 1: we ended up pretty much going about it. A session

419
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 1: a year we would do, we would do, and the

420
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:24,439
Speaker 1: sessions would go probably a minimum two and two to

421
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Speaker 1: three and a half hours. Fuck. So when you're tackling there,

422
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,520
Speaker 1: there's not nothing. There was no you can't kick me

423
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Speaker 1: out because you hired me to make this movie. I'm

424
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,639
Speaker 1: not going anywhere. And we we only had four months

425
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:40,440
Speaker 1: to make the fucking movie. So hold the funk on, man, wait,

426
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,280
Speaker 1: hold on, you had you didn't make that movie in

427
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,680
Speaker 1: four months. We from the moment I finished screening the

428
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 1: footage had four months to deliver. That's fucking crazy. If

429
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:54,919
Speaker 1: it was crazy, that's crazy. It was crazy. It was madness. Okay,

430
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:57,600
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I got it because there's all right. I

431
00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:59,080
Speaker 1: want to stay full and I know I can't keep

432
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 1: asking every fucking question I want to ask you. But

433
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,400
Speaker 1: when when you go into is going to be your

434
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:08,080
Speaker 1: least listen to no no, no, no history. And I'm

435
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,000
Speaker 1: not saying that be self depredating. I'm that's being honest

436
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:15,720
Speaker 1: with you. I don't know how many people normally this

437
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,600
Speaker 1: is film school ship, this is this is when you

438
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,919
Speaker 1: pass a hundred, when a hundred people have listened to

439
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 1: the Brett Morgan I Am Wrapt podcast. Brett morg will

440
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 1: send you we will come to your house and cookie dinner.

441
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,359
Speaker 1: Yeah so so, but when might go act in your

442
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,920
Speaker 1: student film, I'll just do it. When when you go

443
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 1: into like do you have like an encyclopedia fucking questions?

444
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:38,760
Speaker 1: I mean there's so much time and so much like

445
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,520
Speaker 1: just the songs, like if you just just forget the

446
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:45,159
Speaker 1: banded direction and all the fucking the hoop, like like

447
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:46,919
Speaker 1: are you do you walk in there with books and

448
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,439
Speaker 1: books of questions? Are you reading awful books? Are you

449
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:51,399
Speaker 1: referring to note? Okay? So what I do is my

450
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 1: process is at the um start of a production, before

451
00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:00,440
Speaker 1: I've collected footage, I'll read everything there is on us subject.

452
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 1: Once I've started, I will never look at those books again.

453
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 1: They're just so I have some context to looking at

454
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,920
Speaker 1: the footage, so I'll know what things are. Um, are

455
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,719
Speaker 1: you a note taker? When I'm reading, I highlight and

456
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 1: I write themes at the top of a page. So

457
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 1: like if I'm reading for research, I'll highlight a particular

458
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 1: passage and at the top I'll put like a theme

459
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 1: like um, like what for the Stones one? Like, what

460
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 1: would be what was some of the main themes for

461
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 1: the Stones? Well, the the main themes in the finish,

462
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,439
Speaker 1: the film ended up being about role playing, you know

463
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:42,439
Speaker 1: about how when they started they were pretending to be

464
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 1: the bad guys, then they became the bad guys, and

465
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 1: then that role almost devoured them, destroy them. So it

466
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:53,159
Speaker 1: became a very singular through line of action. Um. So

467
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 1: I go throughout that check and then when I'm screening,

468
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:01,159
Speaker 1: I'm sometimes I've had the story we figured out a

469
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 1: little bit before I screen. Oftentimes I have to like

470
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 1: with Cobain, and I had to go through everything before

471
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 1: I knew what the story was. Um. But by the

472
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 1: time I finished screening through everything, I have the story

473
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 1: and I and like within a day and my process

474
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 1: to be if you want to know what it literally,

475
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 1: what happens is I take a lot of notes during

476
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:25,160
Speaker 1: the screening, but I don't I refuse to get anything

477
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,000
Speaker 1: close to working on a script until I've completed the

478
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 1: screening process. So what happened, footage, everything, all the materials

479
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,159
Speaker 1: are gonna have to make the film the second the

480
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 1: moment that ends. So it ends on let's say a Tuesday,

481
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,680
Speaker 1: at six thirty we've run out of material. I'll say

482
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 1: to the editor, all right, why don't you go and

483
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 1: pull selects from Unplugged. I'm gonna go work on the script.

484
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 1: I'll see in a few days. And then on every

485
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:55,440
Speaker 1: movie I've done up to now, the main script is

486
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 1: done in about four hours the first day I go

487
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,119
Speaker 1: to write, because I've been holding all the ship in.

488
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:02,679
Speaker 1: But when you say script, so you'll actually kind of

489
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 1: script out an outline. It's an outline that's pretty like

490
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 1: the outline for Montage is Montage because you kind of

491
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 1: you kind of knew, you knew with the film, I

492
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 1: knew what the through line of action was. Once you

493
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,120
Speaker 1: know the through line of action, that then dictates why

494
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 1: you're not asking them a million fucking questions on subject, right,

495
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 1: because at that point, what's interesting to me when I'm

496
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 1: doing an interview with the Stones of what I'm asking

497
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 1: them probably did never have been asked because it's going

498
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 1: to be specific to this weird tangent that I'm like

499
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 1: honing in on, you know what I mean, or the

500
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 1: same thing with Montage, Like I bet you Chris nova

501
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,920
Speaker 1: Selec has probably never been to ask that question about

502
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 1: shame as it relates to Kurt. You know when I

503
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 1: went because I said him, you know, courage him to

504
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 1: be super sensitive to criticism. And I think the reason

505
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 1: Chris probably has never been asked as most of the

506
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,160
Speaker 1: time Chris is doing interview, people are going to interview

507
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,719
Speaker 1: about his experiences, Chris's experiences as a member of Nirvana,

508
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 1: not the someone else experienced that right, And that was

509
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:04,639
Speaker 1: also something when I sat down with Chris before the interview,

510
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 1: I said, listen to every question I'm gonna asked you today,

511
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 1: it's going to be about Kurt. I don't want to

512
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,440
Speaker 1: feel weird about it because this isn't a Nirvana document.

513
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 1: Like if I went to interview you about something again,

514
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 1: no one gives a funk about me interview. But I

515
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:18,879
Speaker 1: went to interview with some actor you let's say you

516
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 1: did a couple of movies with and you know, you

517
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 1: may feel like a little slighter, like you know, Brett

518
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 1: spending three hours talk to me about like why do

519
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 1: you why do you keep asking me about Robert DeNiro brand,

520
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 1: Like why aren't you talking about my experience exactly? And

521
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 1: why aren't you asking Robert DeNiro about what it's like

522
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:39,160
Speaker 1: to work with Michael Rappaport. So so um anyway, uh so,

523
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 1: so when I met with Chris, I I said, listen,

524
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 1: it's gonna be a different type of interview and and

525
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,239
Speaker 1: so then but you can see when I asked him

526
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,439
Speaker 1: that question his response, I don't think you've ever been

527
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,400
Speaker 1: asked that before. That's a very yeah, that's a it's

528
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 1: a it's a poignant part and so show Like with

529
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 1: The Stones, you know, a lot of what I was

530
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 1: doing was, you know, the interviews were I knew what

531
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:03,159
Speaker 1: the arc of the film was going to be at

532
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 1: that point. I mean there was still moments of discovery

533
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 1: of course, and being open to going down different paths.

534
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 1: He didn't expect to find um, but you know that's

535
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:17,959
Speaker 1: you sort of have to have some something. I mean,

536
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 1: look the thing truth be told. There was certainly moments

537
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,640
Speaker 1: when where I would just asking, you know, I knew

538
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 1: something wasn't going into the film, and I would ask

539
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 1: a lot of times, I actually with the with the

540
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 1: Stones Archives, where I would ask them for a track

541
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 1: that I knew I had no interest in using for

542
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 1: the film, but I wanted to hear the workups. I mean,

543
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 1: I'll be honest, like towards the end, you're a fan,

544
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 1: I'm a fan. Yeah. And then towards the end, I

545
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,719
Speaker 1: knew like I would never have this opportunity against call

546
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 1: them up and be like, so I need to do

547
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 1: I'm I made want to do a sequence abound the

548
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 1: song melody from Huts from Black and Blue? Do you

549
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 1: have any workups to it? And they would send of

550
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 1: these files of three hours in the studio. Never before

551
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 1: heard that they would go bake. They have to gitize

552
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 1: this stuff because it only exists on a quarter inch.

553
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 1: So you heard all kind of ship, all kinds of ship,

554
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: and I'd actually say every recording they've ever done, and

555
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:10,959
Speaker 1: and and and a lot of it didn't even make

556
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 1: it into Oh not none of I mean we we

557
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 1: had five hours of audio of the stones and the

558
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 1: thing is a lot of it, a lot of it

559
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 1: hadn't been digitized. So because they're they're they're they're volt

560
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 1: their archives is every fucking quarter inch real the real tape,

561
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 1: right or whatever you call it stuff, And it's like fun,

562
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 1: Like literally, dude, you go down and there's this aisles

563
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: and aisles and aisles and you pull something out and go,

564
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 1: I wonder what this is and you pull out and

565
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 1: it says, uh, June seventy, Brown Sugar Dadada, and You're like,

566
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 1: no fucking way, you guys, listen to it just this

567
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: sand dude. But even more than listening to Brown Sugar

568
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: Sugar the mass recording, I'm listening to the recording sessions

569
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 1: and the funk ups and not the stuff you get

570
00:29:56,280 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 1: when you buy the Sticky Fingers remastered deluxe outtakes. Why

571
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 1: don't they put that ship out though? Like will? They did?

572
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: They did, they did, like and they started doing that

573
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago. And I'm talking about like

574
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 1: the more like for the like I'm I'm a Stones

575
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 1: fan and and and I'm not even like a hardcore

576
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 1: hardcore stonesman, but I'm a pretty like I would fucking

577
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 1: die to here all that, like the riffs and like

578
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 1: there's one part and there their artists, right, So for them,

579
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 1: it's imperfect, you know what I mean, Michael, They have

580
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: to appreciated. If I said to you, I want to

581
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 1: put out your first cut of tribe called Quest, like,

582
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 1: like I'm a hardcore tribe called Quest fan, and you're

583
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:35,959
Speaker 1: like you're talking to me and you're like, yeah, man,

584
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: I had the five hour Assembly, you know, before he

585
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 1: made the movie, and I'm like, dude, I want to

586
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 1: put that out and you're like, uh no, nobody's seeing that. Right.

587
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 1: I got you, I got you know what I mean,

588
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 1: I understand, but I know I'm with you. Though as

589
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 1: a fan, like I could listen to the and I did.

590
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 1: I had the opportunity of listening to let's say, the

591
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: sessions when they recorded um um um funk. I love

592
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 1: this song so much. I can't believe I'm saying seen

593
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 1: the title, dude when when it's in the Brian Jones

594
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 1: when he died, No excuses, Um, no excuse, because you

595
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 1: have that you have. It changes the lyrics on the

596
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 1: song because he says and in that take he goes,

597
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 1: um never in my sweet Short life have I felt

598
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 1: so sad before? And I think in the in the

599
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 1: recorded version, have I been so whatever it is that's

600
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 1: a goose bump moment in that film. It is so

601
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 1: because he's talking about him and then you like you

602
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 1: it's really it's it's powerful, but like that's the type

603
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 1: of ship where it's like, well, you know, I mean,

604
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 1: that's up to them, I guess, And there's so much

605
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: like who would dig through it. Where is all that ship?

606
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: Where is all? It's in London. It's in London. And

607
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 1: there's like a building that has there's a building. There

608
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 1: is there is a I can't tell you exactly where,

609
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 1: but there is a There are three is because it's

610
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 1: secret or because you just can't remember. No, no, I

611
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 1: remember it. It's not open to the public, but it's

612
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 1: like three warehouses full of they have every dude, fuck

613
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 1: the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, the Rolling Stones

614
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 1: Archives is. There's one hangar that has just cars. A's

615
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 1: like I guess where the guys like instead of keeping

616
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 1: it because it's not even related to the Rolling Stones

617
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 1: per se. It's where like Heath's Bentley from fucking s

618
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: Is has like stories in there, like for car collectors. Dude,

619
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 1: there's cars and there are probably a four miles or something,

620
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like just like there's a

621
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:29,959
Speaker 1: whole car too. And then there's like a whole thing

622
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 1: of all their stage sets for all the years. Then

623
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 1: there's war globe room that has all like the flag

624
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 1: ship from the tour to Make War all there. Then

625
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 1: you go into a film vault room and it's refrigerated,

626
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 1: and then you go into the refrigerated master's room and

627
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: not just a scene of quarter inch tape. Man, as

628
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 1: far as you could see, that's that's good ship. And

629
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 1: and it hasn't been digitized. So we were like, you know,

630
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 1: and this stuff so well, it's what you would have

631
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 1: to do is we'd have to request. I'd say, I want, um,

632
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: can you hear me knocking? And give me every work

633
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: up to Kenny hear me knocking? And so they would

634
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 1: have to take it and do something what's called baked

635
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 1: before they could digitize it to the tape doesn't crumble,

636
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 1: and I'd be like, nobody's heard this man in like

637
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 1: since nineteen seventy one. You know. It was it was

638
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 1: so yeah as a fan, that stuff to me, I

639
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 1: mean it's really yeah. I love that ship. And I

640
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 1: mean and that that we had that would tribe though, right,

641
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 1: didn't you have everything Funck No, we didn't have ship.

642
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 1: I mean we had the basics and then no, I

643
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 1: mean you know, I wanted the outtakes and and and

644
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 1: then there was like a bootleg version of some outtakes,

645
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 1: but then we couldn't put I mean everything with the rights.

646
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 1: That's why I'm so curious about when you went into

647
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 1: these films. Because for me, when I went into Tribe,

648
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: like I didn't know what the funk I was doing.

649
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 1: It was literally a Tuesday, and I was like, I

650
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 1: want to make a doctor about Tribe. I mean, it

651
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 1: wasn't as quick as this, and it was as quick

652
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 1: as this. I had spoken to them before about it,

653
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 1: but then on a Saturday, I was down there filming

654
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 1: their concert. Like I didn't fun. There was no planning.

655
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 1: I didn't know what existed, what didn't exist. And you know,

656
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 1: and and and and because that film has sort of

657
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 1: a dichotomy of real time and the story that took

658
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 1: place in real time and then the past, which I

659
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 1: didn't know the story in real time. While I was

660
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 1: doing it, I had no idea. It has that sort

661
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 1: of you know you you get that, and that was

662
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 1: the beauty of it. But like, I'm so fascinated and

663
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 1: like to to go into something, you know, knowing what

664
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 1: the playground is, knowing what all your resources are, knowing

665
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 1: what all your b role is. I mean, we were

666
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 1: looking for pictures up until two days before we screen

667
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 1: the movie. You're going backwards. I go the other way around.

668
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:40,320
Speaker 1: I collect everything smarter way. I mean, and it's already

669
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 1: you're gonna kill yourself anyway, but it's still that's a

670
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 1: smarter way. I the archivists is on salary and working

671
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:52,720
Speaker 1: a year before I stepped foot in the edit ram.

672
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:54,879
Speaker 1: That's what the funk I'm talking about. That's why you're

673
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 1: fucking Brett Morgan and I'm over here, you know, drinking

674
00:34:57,680 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 1: a fucking I mean no, but I'm saying like as

675
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 1: far like you know, as far as young documentarians, because

676
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 1: you know, people say, what do I need to do

677
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 1: to make a doc? What do I you know, they

678
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 1: asked me this, and then you know like that that

679
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:10,839
Speaker 1: to me is like an easier way. But you can't

680
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 1: always have that, you know, when you probably started your

681
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 1: first films, like you have to build like you've you've

682
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 1: earned the right to have that. That should But but

683
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 1: the thing is, man, it's it's that you can do

684
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,359
Speaker 1: searches yourself off. Like there's like footage I think it's

685
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 1: called footage dot net or something, and you can and

686
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 1: that's pretty much what my archivist is doing. I mean, yeah,

687
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 1: I mean, look, here's the here's the here's here's the

688
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: and you fortunately didn't run into this with tribe but

689
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 1: here's the real danger and doing these type of movies. Um,

690
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,880
Speaker 1: oftentimes we're attracted the subjects, especially in the entertainment because

691
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 1: we like them, we're fans. So you like tribe called Pluss, right,

692
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:49,239
Speaker 1: and you know, I want to make a film on

693
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 1: tribe called Cluss. And that in and of itself doesn't

694
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 1: make a movie. No, it's by the way, having an

695
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:01,359
Speaker 1: interest in the subject obviously is critical. But they may

696
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 1: not have a good story. That's true. Just because someone

697
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:06,319
Speaker 1: made good art doesn't mean they have a good story, absolutely,

698
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 1: I I mean, and you know, and oftentimes, you know,

699
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:12,759
Speaker 1: it's the people with the great artists who don't have

700
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 1: good stories because they're just good at what they do

701
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,360
Speaker 1: and they don't get in trouble and they don't muck around,

702
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,319
Speaker 1: and you know, you know, someone like Bob Evans makes

703
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,839
Speaker 1: for a much more interesting story than Kathleen Kennedy, you know,

704
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:28,360
Speaker 1: and even though Kavin Kennedy's probably is a stronger producing

705
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:32,799
Speaker 1: record that it's just what's that film? What's the Richard Donnald.

706
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure there's a good film. I just

707
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 1: it's not the kid I got you. So, So the

708
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 1: real danger is you get on board and you go,

709
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 1: you know, you get subduced by working with Mick Jagger,

710
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 1: and you go, yeah, I'm in. And then you get

711
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: there and you start going through stuff and you go, oh, fun,

712
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:49,879
Speaker 1: that happened to me on montage of back Where how

713
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 1: so I thought Kurt would narrate the film, that it

714
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 1: would be all Kurt, there would be no talking heads,

715
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 1: it would be Kurt Kirk Kurt that that I would

716
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,359
Speaker 1: go and acquire every interview Kurt ever did and then

717
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 1: use that to tell filling the holes, similar to that

718
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,840
Speaker 1: really good Tupac movie. Did you ever see the Tupac Resurrection?

719
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 1: Right where you where he's narrating his movie is filling

720
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 1: in the holes based on pre exist pre existing interviews,

721
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 1: and it's kind of haunting because it's haunting, by the way,

722
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 1: one of the greatest openings in documentary history if anyone,

723
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,240
Speaker 1: if you haven't seen the film, the opening that film,

724
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:24,759
Speaker 1: I'm going to ruin it right now where you're going

725
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 1: through but I have to ruin it where you're going

726
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 1: through Vegas and all of a sudden you hear his

727
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 1: voice come in hease I was shot. Yeah, it's fucking

728
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: fuck dude, Like I just ruined it. But the first

729
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:36,799
Speaker 1: time I was in the theater and I heard his voice,

730
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 1: and and you and I can figure out how they

731
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 1: got that, because you go, okay, wait, you know the

732
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 1: history of Tupac. You know he was shot before Vegas,

733
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 1: and so you're like, this must be from that interview.

734
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 1: But the way they did, he didn't you feel like

735
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:51,840
Speaker 1: he's talking to from the dead. That's a good movie.

736
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 1: I podcast and we'll be right back. Greats Sneakers Greats

737
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:01,400
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738
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:06,360
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739
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:11,000
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740
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:15,799
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741
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 1: fifteen percent off punching the Cold Rap report r A

742
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 1: P A p O r T greats dot Com. But wait,

743
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 1: what were saying about Montage? Oh yeah, but so so montage.

744
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:30,840
Speaker 1: So I got in there and I'm looking all the

745
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 1: material and then I started acquiring all of Kurt's interviews,

746
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 1: and I didn't think he could handle carry the movie

747
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 1: based on his interviews. I didn't like his voice, like

748
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 1: as a performer in the interview as it just says like,

749
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to listen to this for the movie.

750
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,839
Speaker 1: Why was it was? It was? It was? It wasn't Curt, dude,

751
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:49,799
Speaker 1: It wasn't like Kurt. It was a different guy than

752
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 1: the guy who we have in the rest of the film.

753
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 1: You know, it's like the voice, the cadence, the texture

754
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 1: of the voice when he answers the phone in Tracy's

755
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 1: apartment or any of that stuff in trades department or

756
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 1: when he's with Courtney. Yeah, that's not the voice he

757
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:06,799
Speaker 1: uses when he's doing an interview with Kurt with Kurt

758
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 1: Loder on MTV, it's reluctant kind of where is he

759
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 1: He's he's either to earnest two removed, too cynical, too sarcastic,

760
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 1: too deeply aware of his own mythology. How many how

761
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 1: many hours of that did you have? Countless? And the

762
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 1: main and that towards the end we acquired the Michael

763
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,360
Speaker 1: Asrat interview, which was the twenty five hours of audio,

764
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 1: which one is that okay, that was the basis for

765
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 1: the the other documentary that had been done about Kurt

766
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 1: called about a Boy, Yes, which is good a son

767
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 1: with its all. So we heard that whole interview and

768
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 1: I didn't want to use any of it. I just didn't.

769
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 1: And so then I was like, what the fund did

770
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,360
Speaker 1: I get myself into? Because I don't do talking heads?

771
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 1: So you knew I'm not fucking what you like? You

772
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 1: already knew, like, I'm not doing talking heads. Yes, I

773
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 1: called the line producer and I asked her how much

774
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 1: money we had spent at that point, because I wanted

775
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 1: to pay the studio back and get the funk out

776
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 1: of there, get out of there. I wanted to get

777
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 1: off the film. You were like nervous, like I don't

778
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 1: have the movie, And Michael, you gotta understand this is

779
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,799
Speaker 1: six seven years after I was first started talking about

780
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:15,839
Speaker 1: making the movie I'm so deep in but we had

781
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: only physically been making the move out, only been spending

782
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 1: the studio's money for about four months. So did you

783
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 1: find out the number out how much you spent and

784
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 1: it was more than I was willing to get back.

785
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 1: So was that partial part of the reason why you

786
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:29,319
Speaker 1: were like, Okay, I'm gonna figure this out, or you

787
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,880
Speaker 1: just were like because this way if I really if

788
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:34,759
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, I couldn't come up

789
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 1: with a viable solution. I would have paid the studio

790
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 1: back and I would have done it, you know, because

791
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 1: I'm like, I had direct commercials for a living. So

792
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 1: I would have just said, Okay, I'm not making any

793
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 1: money this year, right, but I'm your your your names.

794
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:53,719
Speaker 1: You know, you can't. All the money in the world

795
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 1: doesn't buy you your fucking make your integrity. So and

796
00:40:57,640 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 1: obviously there's a party that you you you you weren't

797
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 1: you hadn't given up because you were like, you're gonna

798
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 1: make this, figure it out. But I was looking at

799
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 1: the numbers I did to see what we were at,

800
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 1: and it was like three or four hundred thousand at

801
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 1: that before before he done shed, and I was like,

802
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 1: that was I mean, I don't want to tell you

803
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:14,880
Speaker 1: what the number in my head that I was willing

804
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 1: to go to, but there was number that I had

805
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 1: that I was like, we're giving it back, and I

806
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 1: would have figured something out. But then, you know, then

807
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,439
Speaker 1: I landed on this thing of of doing the people

808
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:28,359
Speaker 1: who were most intimate with him, and even that was

809
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:30,840
Speaker 1: was if one of those people didn't come through, the

810
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 1: whole thing collapse, meaning if Kurt's mother held out, then

811
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 1: the balance of the film is all fucked up, and

812
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:41,399
Speaker 1: you know, I've gotten a little bit of flak about

813
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:43,280
Speaker 1: not having Dave Girl in the film, Like Dave Girls

814
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 1: never intended to be in the film because it's just five.

815
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:48,719
Speaker 1: It's these five people like there's one, there's a mom,

816
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:51,760
Speaker 1: a dad, a sister or a wife, the first girlfriend

817
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,400
Speaker 1: and a band member. But so so the so the

818
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:55,880
Speaker 1: Dave girl thing, because I was going to ask you

819
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 1: about that you knew was it? Like I don't know

820
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:00,800
Speaker 1: the dynamic of their relationship. I don't know the dynamic

821
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 1: of Courtney Love's relationship with anything. I wasn't taught there

822
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 1: was Courtney brought me in and then was gone. So

823
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 1: so there's no like I'm not like calling Courtney or

824
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:11,239
Speaker 1: she's calling me going don't interview Dave or interview day.

825
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:14,279
Speaker 1: There's no conversations with her about what the film is.

826
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 1: But but but like the Dave Girl, like did you

827
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 1: interview him? So what happened with Dave was because that's

828
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 1: like a big thing, like even for like like I'm

829
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 1: a kirk Coole baby, but I'm not like a but

830
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 1: I'm like, yo, where's the fucking from there? Okay, So

831
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 1: Connor O'Neill has something to do with this story. So

832
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 1: my my inspiration was Lenny. So I wanted is a

833
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 1: few people as possible on the film. In fact, and

834
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 1: my initial conception the film, it never even crossed my

835
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 1: mind to do Dave. It was always Chris. He was

836
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,760
Speaker 1: and for those who don't know, Chris formed the band

837
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 1: with Kurt. Dave came in after Bleach, So three years

838
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:53,239
Speaker 1: after Nirvana formed, Dave becomes a drummer and he took

839
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 1: them to the Promise, but he was there were three

840
00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 1: drummers that played before him, So Chris was the guy

841
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 1: there from the beginning to the end. Chris is from Aberdeen,

842
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 1: days from Watchington d C. It's a story about a

843
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 1: kid from Aberdeen. It should be Chris. No slak but

844
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 1: have you so you say, But as I approach management,

845
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 1: I didn't want them to think there was anything weird.

846
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 1: So when I approach management, I was kind of hoping

847
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 1: that they were going to tell me what they did,

848
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 1: which is um, they said, well, let's we'll come back

849
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 1: to call me up the next day and they go,

850
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 1: Chris is available, Um, he's gonna go. Dave's busy, so um,

851
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 1: you know, I'm fortunately that's not gonna work out. He's

852
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 1: recording his new album. So it's fine. So it's like

853
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:39,439
Speaker 1: an owl for you because you I'm fine, I'm good,

854
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 1: we're good. We're gonna make the film. So we go

855
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:43,319
Speaker 1: and make the film. We cut the you know. That

856
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:47,759
Speaker 1: was in April. I did Chris Is interview. In April.

857
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 1: I started screening the film for friends, and I bring

858
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:56,280
Speaker 1: in a mutual friend of ours, Connor O'Neill. You cut Fox,

859
00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 1: Fox Catcher and Cross for our Hurricane, and Honor sees

860
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 1: the movie and he says, um movies. When he goes,

861
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 1: you gotta interviewed Dave Girl, I said, whin he gets

862
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 1: because Ve don't interviewed Dave girl. You will never do

863
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 1: an interview for this film or Q and A were

864
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,359
Speaker 1: the first question is about Dave role and he goes,

865
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:19,360
Speaker 1: it's not that the film needs Dave girl like, and

866
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:21,319
Speaker 1: you're not missing anything. It's not like I'm telling you

867
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 1: need to get Dave growl because I want to hear

868
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 1: him talk about X y Z. It's just it's distracting

869
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 1: not to see it right because he's associated so much

870
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 1: with Nirvana. So we reached back to management at that

871
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 1: point that was in October, and Dave was doing Sonic

872
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 1: Highways and they're like, he's not available, and then um

873
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:44,360
Speaker 1: and then eventually he became available and I had locked picture,

874
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 1: and so you never got shot. So then I filmed

875
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:51,439
Speaker 1: him three weeks after I locked picture, three weeks before

876
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:55,759
Speaker 1: the Sundance premiere. Hell Mary, Hell Mary, Let's see if

877
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 1: we can get you know. I was not optimistic at

878
00:44:58,160 --> 00:44:59,919
Speaker 1: that point because I had spent all this time making

879
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 1: this film and it's not gonna be an easy task

880
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 1: to open it up. And I tried and I just

881
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 1: couldn't get it in on time. How long did you

882
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 1: interview him? For a couple of hours? But his interview

883
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:15,800
Speaker 1: was also different than everybody else's because with Christ, with anyone,

884
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:19,279
Speaker 1: I knew I was taking him on this journey. With Dave,

885
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 1: I had to know exactly where his body was going

886
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:26,239
Speaker 1: because we were the edit the film was lost, right,

887
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 1: so he had the the He literally had to hit

888
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 1: the bulls. I like this bit right, I got you?

889
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? You know I I tell you.

890
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:36,240
Speaker 1: I watched this movie the first night it aired on HBO,

891
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:38,920
Speaker 1: and and and I and I it was. It was

892
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 1: a hard pill to swallow. You obviously know a movie

893
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 1: about Kurt Cobaine is not gonna end. Well, it's it's

894
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:47,880
Speaker 1: no fairytale, no, and it's it's a dark it's a

895
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:51,839
Speaker 1: dark film. And and you you you you feel his pain.

896
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:53,840
Speaker 1: And and somebody in the film I can't remember, I

897
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:57,280
Speaker 1: think it was Chris says like you kind of in hindsight,

898
00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 1: you knew where this was going, Like the clues were there,

899
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:02,799
Speaker 1: We were right in front of you the whole time,

900
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 1: right and and and when you're watching, you're like, funk.

901
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 1: I mean the drugs and even before the drugs, just

902
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 1: the inner turmoil that this guy suffered with. And also

903
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 1: like the Courtney Love, like you see her survivor instinct

904
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:18,840
Speaker 1: even when she's even when she's fucked up on drugs,

905
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 1: she just never seemed as fucked up as him, Like

906
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 1: you just seem like she was gonna get past this.

907
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:26,360
Speaker 1: And I mean that one animation sequence where he's on

908
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 1: the phone, like how are you I'm just impressed, Like

909
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 1: how are you tackling this when you have so much

910
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:34,799
Speaker 1: from the playground to play with? Like how are you

911
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:37,280
Speaker 1: zeroing in? I mean I'm looking at I'm at your office,

912
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 1: and how you you have these paintings. How many paintings

913
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 1: did they? Sixty sixty canvases and six thousand drawings. I mean,

914
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 1: you're a fucking artist, Like you're a motherfucker with this movie.

915
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 1: But the thing is, so that's that moment you just

916
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:54,200
Speaker 1: mentioned where he answers the phone. Right the second I

917
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 1: heard that, I knew it was going into the film.

918
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 1: And I'll tell you why and where and how. Okay,

919
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:00,560
Speaker 1: Remember I told you I read all the books before

920
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 1: I started the movie, So like all the good books,

921
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:06,480
Speaker 1: the bad books, whatever, the eight books everything, I read them,

922
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:09,280
Speaker 1: you know. And so I knew the story of Kurt

923
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:15,840
Speaker 1: and Tracy, and so I had that tape on and

924
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 1: the tapes aren't labeled by year, so I would, you know,

925
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 1: look listen for clues. And I knew that the tape

926
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 1: was the Tracy's apartment. As soon as I heard that,

927
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:27,320
Speaker 1: I knew it was going in the film, because those

928
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:32,880
Speaker 1: five words paint a picture that is so vivid, and

929
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 1: I it painted that picture for me when I heard

930
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:37,160
Speaker 1: it when I was in the storage facilities. Are the

931
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:41,640
Speaker 1: words hello? Maybe more? I didn't count the words, but

932
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 1: he all he says is hello, No, she's at work, now, okay, thanks,

933
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 1: and suddenly you get this image of Kurt on a

934
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:57,759
Speaker 1: fucking Tuesday afternoon at three o'clock and he's being supported

935
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:03,399
Speaker 1: by this woman financially right, and he's sort of going

936
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 1: about his business. This is what he does. And it

937
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 1: was so simple and yet it made you feel like

938
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:12,759
Speaker 1: you were there, like why does this even exist? The

939
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 1: only reason exists it was Kurt would record when he

940
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 1: was recording at that moment on his boom box when

941
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 1: the phone interrupted, and instead of pressing pause, he just

942
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:23,279
Speaker 1: went and answered the phone. And you build around it.

943
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:26,839
Speaker 1: You go this, I mark that down, I go this

944
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:30,319
Speaker 1: is definitely going in the movie because it's a it's

945
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 1: a Remember when we started this conversation, I said, like

946
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 1: films to play out in the president tense. So that's

947
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:39,280
Speaker 1: a way for me to convey information without someone having

948
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 1: to do it. And you know, when Kurt lived with me,

949
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:44,319
Speaker 1: I would support him, and that this puts you in

950
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:47,800
Speaker 1: the moment as opposed to someone telling telling you about

951
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 1: what the moment was, like I got you, I got you.

952
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 1: This this thing is like, uh, it's like a fucking mural,

953
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 1: the montage of heck, there's just there's a lot and

954
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:02,560
Speaker 1: and it's seamless, and it goes from you know, the rise,

955
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 1: and and and and and I mean just it just

956
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:09,239
Speaker 1: seems overwhelming to have that much stuff like with with

957
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:10,880
Speaker 1: like it's like you want all this stuff to put

958
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:12,680
Speaker 1: in your movie. And then you're like, do you ever

959
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:15,480
Speaker 1: feel like, oh funk what like overwhelmed by the amount

960
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:17,920
Speaker 1: because you never the thing you get overwhelmed with, like

961
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:19,839
Speaker 1: and it felt like montage. We didn't have that much

962
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 1: for There was barely any footage. There was like an

963
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:27,839
Speaker 1: absolute dearth of footage. There was no Kurt was never

964
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:30,760
Speaker 1: in a bar tape film. He never did give me shelter,

965
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:32,960
Speaker 1: He never was to sit down interviews. There were They

966
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 1: were the only footage of Kurt or sit down interviews,

967
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 1: some stuff with him and Francis and um the home

968
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 1: movies what and I did that the home movies when

969
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 1: he was a baby that his mom gave me. Um,

970
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 1: so that was yeah. There was no footage man the

971
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:55,879
Speaker 1: um that. What there was was of the however many

972
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 1: hours we had in our system called seven hundred hours,

973
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:02,000
Speaker 1: I would say, six hundred hours, we're we're nothing but

974
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 1: VHS footage of the band playing. And with that stuff,

975
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:10,560
Speaker 1: you know, I started to look at everything. And then

976
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:14,359
Speaker 1: at a certain point, after three weeks of the same

977
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 1: set over and over and over again, shot on crappy VHS,

978
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 1: that was the first time I've ever bailed, and I

979
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 1: told the editor, I go flag if there's anything that's

980
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 1: out of order, you know, because I've seen enough at

981
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 1: this point the movie with what I've seen, you know

982
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 1: that that existed? Yeah, and what about the journal stuff

983
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 1: like like like when you like making that stuff come

984
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:39,680
Speaker 1: to life of what was Yeah, like like so you

985
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:42,520
Speaker 1: I've seen that there's a book I believe that I

986
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:45,200
Speaker 1: have of the journy. Well, that's not what we had.

987
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 1: We had the They put out a three and a

988
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:49,759
Speaker 1: page book called Kurt Cubating Journals, but we had the

989
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:52,400
Speaker 1: Journal Journal. So I had four thousand pages. Right. So

990
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:55,799
Speaker 1: what I did was, um, I've photographed. I brought an

991
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 1: animation stand, which is really simple. All of this is

992
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:02,279
Speaker 1: is uh a camera at the night I can in

993
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 1: five D, you know, hanging directly over um, a table

994
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:12,319
Speaker 1: with two lights up, you know, one one lighting and

995
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:16,439
Speaker 1: we'd take one picture per page. That's it. I didn't

996
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:18,680
Speaker 1: read them yet. And then once you take the pictures,

997
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:20,560
Speaker 1: once I take the pictures. I brought them back to

998
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:23,960
Speaker 1: my office where I rebuild the journals. So I had

999
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 1: the actual journals and not the published journal right but

1000
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:30,440
Speaker 1: at a kirch actual journals. I started going through them

1001
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:36,759
Speaker 1: and um highlighting themes with post it's, and then I

1002
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 1: would give the pages to the assistant editor and I said,

1003
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:45,120
Speaker 1: collate these by theme in the avid. And so when

1004
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 1: I would then come across a point where I needed

1005
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 1: to access the journals, I would have and the themes

1006
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:53,880
Speaker 1: were sometimes they were very specific, like never mind, or

1007
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 1: sometimes they would had one one box of stuff catalog

1008
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:03,160
Speaker 1: called the poor at All and the porto were kurtz Ramlings,

1009
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:05,759
Speaker 1: just Kurt going off on the world. So whenever we

1010
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:08,880
Speaker 1: wanted to get into like Kurts like crazy thoughts, I

1011
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:11,239
Speaker 1: would go into the portal and there would be all

1012
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:14,279
Speaker 1: of the yourself and that would be suice. There there

1013
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:17,440
Speaker 1: was a suicide thing. Did that Did that give you

1014
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:19,839
Speaker 1: the like that when you read when you had those

1015
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:22,359
Speaker 1: like like watching the film like it gave me like

1016
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:24,440
Speaker 1: I was like it was so intimate and it was

1017
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 1: so because of obviously you know the outcome, like are

1018
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:31,239
Speaker 1: you like feeling like almost like you know you're just

1019
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 1: treating this like material, and you've got to make the material.

1020
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:36,120
Speaker 1: I understand it when you're in the throes of it,

1021
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:40,200
Speaker 1: it's like material. The emotions didn't start until I had

1022
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:44,120
Speaker 1: to start promoting the film. Your emotions, my emotions. And

1023
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:47,560
Speaker 1: then it really hit me the night that I've the

1024
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:50,280
Speaker 1: two nights for the premiere, three nights for the premiere.

1025
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:53,920
Speaker 1: At the final color grading session we were at the

1026
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 1: we got to the end and it was Kurt and unplugged,

1027
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:02,040
Speaker 1: and I lost I It was the first time like

1028
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:07,520
Speaker 1: I had It's hard to explain. It wasn't because Kurt

1029
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:09,800
Speaker 1: was dying in the film. It was the last I

1030
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:11,400
Speaker 1: had to do with the fact I was putting the

1031
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:14,160
Speaker 1: film to bed, and that I wasn't gonna go to

1032
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:17,000
Speaker 1: work with Kurt every day, and that he was such

1033
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 1: an inspiring subject to visit every day of work. And

1034
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:27,160
Speaker 1: then there was the time away from my kids, and

1035
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:30,719
Speaker 1: all the and all the fights, all the people I

1036
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:32,759
Speaker 1: will never talk to you again, and all you know

1037
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:35,799
Speaker 1: during the movie, during the making of the movie as

1038
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:39,960
Speaker 1: a film, the hell that is documentary film. My god, Well,

1039
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:41,960
Speaker 1: it just feels like I shouldn't say this, Michael, but

1040
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:45,600
Speaker 1: it feels to me. And I know it's not like

1041
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:47,799
Speaker 1: this for everyone, but I think it has to be.

1042
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:49,920
Speaker 1: If you feel like the whole world's out to get you,

1043
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:52,839
Speaker 1: the whole world's out to get you. Everybody is trying

1044
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:56,239
Speaker 1: to compromise you. You you're a piece of ship. What

1045
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:58,120
Speaker 1: you make this is me And you could tell me

1046
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:00,120
Speaker 1: if you, if you, if you, if you concur with this,

1047
00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:02,359
Speaker 1: You're a piece of ship. What you're making is a

1048
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:05,879
Speaker 1: piece of sh it. Um, I have no life. Why

1049
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:08,440
Speaker 1: am I doing this? I would like to like like

1050
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:10,920
Speaker 1: my own private subway underground, so I don't need to

1051
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:14,319
Speaker 1: see anybody. Um, the person and people that are making

1052
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:16,680
Speaker 1: this about are gonna hate me because I fucked this

1053
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:19,480
Speaker 1: movie up. I don't know. Like when I was making

1054
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:21,120
Speaker 1: my last when my girlfriend said to me, she goes,

1055
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:22,880
Speaker 1: why why are you doing this? And I was like,

1056
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:26,239
Speaker 1: it's fun. She goes, but you seem miserable. Well she

1057
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:29,839
Speaker 1: has a point, because you actually don't have to. I mean,

1058
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:32,720
Speaker 1: you have to do it creatively, but you have another

1059
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:36,319
Speaker 1: like financially, you probably make more money a week on

1060
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 1: set and then a year on a movie. Oh yeah,

1061
00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:40,600
Speaker 1: I've made you know how much of twos I've made Zerril.

1062
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 1: I put all my money into the function. You're losing,

1063
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:46,400
Speaker 1: you're paying to go to work. Yeah, that's doesn't make

1064
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:48,280
Speaker 1: a lot of But do you have like fear based

1065
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:50,719
Speaker 1: are you? Like? I mean, it's probably everything right, like

1066
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:53,319
Speaker 1: when you're making these movies, and especially this fucking thing.

1067
00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:56,040
Speaker 1: And the thing about Kurt Kobe is like, if you

1068
00:54:56,239 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 1: funk up the Kurt Kobean, you can't think that though

1069
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:01,600
Speaker 1: you can't, you got be caught if you. By the way,

1070
00:55:01,640 --> 00:55:03,239
Speaker 1: if you're at the point where you got hired to

1071
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:07,080
Speaker 1: make the film, you're obviously confident enough to not let

1072
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:08,880
Speaker 1: that ship. I think it would take it into my

1073
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:11,040
Speaker 1: next movie. And you're you're you're further there. But I mean,

1074
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:15,520
Speaker 1: like it's like he means so much, but it all

1075
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:17,640
Speaker 1: meant to me was friends. I mean, honestly, I was

1076
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:21,240
Speaker 1: making film for Francis, so that that's what really mattered most,

1077
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:23,719
Speaker 1: and and and but the same thing with the Stones. Yes,

1078
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:25,000
Speaker 1: you don't want to be the guy who sucked up

1079
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:28,600
Speaker 1: the stones. But at the same time, if you think

1080
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:31,920
Speaker 1: like that, you're not getting out of bed. So my

1081
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:34,000
Speaker 1: thing is did a little different than yours. When I'm

1082
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:38,920
Speaker 1: making the film. I'm very optimistic about what the film

1083
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 1: can be. That's what inspires me every day. So I

1084
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 1: don't think I'm making a piece of ship. And I

1085
00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:44,560
Speaker 1: always feel like I'm making something probably better than it

1086
00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:47,319
Speaker 1: actually is gonna be Okay. I have that yeah, you know,

1087
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:52,320
Speaker 1: like this is gonna be the Citizen Kane of documentaries. Um,

1088
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:54,440
Speaker 1: And that's the thing that motivates you to go that

1089
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:57,920
Speaker 1: extra hour every night. My thing is I just feel

1090
00:55:58,040 --> 00:56:01,959
Speaker 1: like you they I'll be working with someone and they'll

1091
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:05,440
Speaker 1: say like, you will be Friday, and they'll be like, so, um,

1092
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:07,640
Speaker 1: my wife, and I'm gonna be leaving a sixth night.

1093
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:10,200
Speaker 1: You know, I got dinner plans, And I'll just look

1094
00:56:10,239 --> 00:56:12,120
Speaker 1: at them like are you Like they're crazy, Like what

1095
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:14,480
Speaker 1: do you mean you got dinner plans? Like we're working,

1096
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:18,359
Speaker 1: Like aren't you committed to the project? I understand. And

1097
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:22,560
Speaker 1: so I always feel like everybody is trying to compromise you.

1098
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:24,279
Speaker 1: Everyone's trying to look for a shortcut. You know. I

1099
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 1: direct commercials. Here's a conversation I don't like having with

1100
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:31,200
Speaker 1: a producer where you say, listen, I think we're gonna

1101
00:56:31,239 --> 00:56:35,839
Speaker 1: need a crane out at the chicken ranch and they go, oh, man,

1102
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:37,839
Speaker 1: you know much work that's gonna because we're gonna I'm

1103
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:39,959
Speaker 1: gonna need to bring an extra eight guys. They're gonna

1104
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:41,640
Speaker 1: have to get there three hours early, and we got

1105
00:56:41,719 --> 00:56:45,399
Speaker 1: to turn around. And I give them this look like,

1106
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 1: first of all, why are you telling me this? This

1107
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:50,960
Speaker 1: isn't my I'm this isn't my I don't I don't

1108
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:52,600
Speaker 1: want to be insensitive. I don't want this to sound

1109
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:55,640
Speaker 1: in sense. But as a filmmaker, I'm the director, you're

1110
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:58,000
Speaker 1: telling me what your lawn, dirty laundry is that I

1111
00:56:58,000 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 1: don't need to know. I don't just give me the

1112
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:02,520
Speaker 1: fucking crane, give me the crazy. And while you're getting

1113
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:04,120
Speaker 1: me the crane now, because you're being a fun go

1114
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:07,440
Speaker 1: get me a fucking a nice latte and a fucking

1115
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:09,480
Speaker 1: in and out burger, because I don't need to hear

1116
00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:11,320
Speaker 1: about the thing is that that what I'm trying to

1117
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:13,759
Speaker 1: get it is you're trying to get this vision out there,

1118
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:15,759
Speaker 1: and it doesn't matter what it's going to take to

1119
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:19,840
Speaker 1: get there. Right And and so when this this sound guy,

1120
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:22,240
Speaker 1: who hopefully is not listening to your podcast at this point,

1121
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:25,280
Speaker 1: says to me, I have dinner, you know, with my wife,

1122
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:26,960
Speaker 1: and we have the thing with with these friends, and

1123
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:29,000
Speaker 1: I'm like, going, dude, we're in the stage in two weeks.

1124
00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:31,600
Speaker 1: What are you talking about? What planet are you on?

1125
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:34,440
Speaker 1: I take that as a personal assault. I got you

1126
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:39,480
Speaker 1: because you're in the hut. You're in the dude. We are.

1127
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:43,040
Speaker 1: And it's not just that we're in the trench. And

1128
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:45,800
Speaker 1: and there are people I will tell you this right now.

1129
00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:48,320
Speaker 1: Who I look over this wall right now and I

1130
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:51,280
Speaker 1: see some fucking you know, ice is coming over. There

1131
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:53,400
Speaker 1: are certain people on wane in that trench, and there

1132
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:54,800
Speaker 1: are certain people I don't. And let me tell you,

1133
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:58,360
Speaker 1: the people I wanted to trench are necessarily the sharpest shooters. Okay,

1134
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:01,400
Speaker 1: they're the fucking people to give blood. They're going to

1135
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:05,040
Speaker 1: be there at you know, at twenty hours, eighteen hours

1136
00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:07,840
Speaker 1: into the day. And you look at them and you say,

1137
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:09,840
Speaker 1: i'll see you in the morning. I got five hours

1138
00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:12,480
Speaker 1: from now. I'm good. They're good to go. I got you.

1139
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:16,400
Speaker 1: Because it's like there's no glitz and glamour making a

1140
00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:19,360
Speaker 1: dock there. It just doesn't it's just not it's just

1141
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:22,280
Speaker 1: not there. But there's the but there is that they

1142
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:25,960
Speaker 1: want to get it right. The payoff is it's It's

1143
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:28,480
Speaker 1: like base on man, It's the perfect game. What every

1144
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:31,240
Speaker 1: I think artist is looking for. You're looking for this

1145
00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:34,280
Speaker 1: in you're in, you're acting, and you're fucking um and

1146
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:37,560
Speaker 1: you're directing. Is that perfect performance, that perfect moment that

1147
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:38,880
Speaker 1: you want to be able to watch one of your

1148
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:43,880
Speaker 1: films and not fucking have a moment that's off in

1149
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:45,919
Speaker 1: fact in film you're acting. You want to go see

1150
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:47,440
Speaker 1: it and go, oh my god, I have no idea,

1151
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:50,600
Speaker 1: what is that good? And and it's rare to even

1152
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:52,480
Speaker 1: get that, and you live for that, man, You live

1153
00:58:52,520 --> 00:58:56,120
Speaker 1: for that screening where the audience is totally fucking they're

1154
00:58:56,640 --> 00:59:00,160
Speaker 1: the projection is good, the sounds good, and every thing

1155
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:02,960
Speaker 1: is perfect and for no one moment it makes it

1156
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:07,600
Speaker 1: always suspended reality. It's great And so it's almost gonna

1157
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:11,720
Speaker 1: You can't almost describe it because I know exactly signor podcast.

1158
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:16,880
Speaker 1: Baseball is in full swing and you could be part

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00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:21,000
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1160
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1163
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1164
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1165
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1166
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1176
01:00:17,160 --> 01:00:21,480
Speaker 1: You mentioned h Courtney and and and so when did

1177
01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:24,360
Speaker 1: when his daughter saw so the film? When did she

1178
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:27,760
Speaker 1: see the film? And right there you're you're you're you're

1179
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:30,960
Speaker 1: sitting on her. Oh she watched her right here? And

1180
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:33,080
Speaker 1: and how how did how how was the response like

1181
01:00:34,040 --> 01:00:38,400
Speaker 1: she moved? Had she's seen this footage? No, she hadn't

1182
01:00:38,440 --> 01:00:41,560
Speaker 1: seen anything, you know, So I had set up a

1183
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:46,520
Speaker 1: I brought a box a trash can like that in

1184
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:49,200
Speaker 1: here and a box of clinics. When I came in afterwards,

1185
01:00:49,200 --> 01:00:53,480
Speaker 1: it was full. And um, it was just her, her

1186
01:00:53,480 --> 01:00:58,640
Speaker 1: and her fiance, her husband and and she know she's

1187
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:01,640
Speaker 1: into paraphrase. She said, you don't think you know, thank

1188
01:01:01,640 --> 01:01:02,800
Speaker 1: you for giving me a couple of hours with my

1189
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:04,240
Speaker 1: dad that I never thought I was going to have.

1190
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:09,000
Speaker 1: And you know, she got into it, and you know,

1191
01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:10,880
Speaker 1: there were things she told me. Her favorite part of

1192
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 1: the film was the ending. Oh the way it cuts

1193
01:01:13,720 --> 01:01:17,080
Speaker 1: the block. Yeah, that was pretty intense. Yeah, you know

1194
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:21,480
Speaker 1: at first first I wasn't should be offended. Her favorite

1195
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:25,640
Speaker 1: part is the thing ended. My favorite part of who

1196
01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:27,800
Speaker 1: was what I was able to leave when I was

1197
01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:30,440
Speaker 1: able to like you cut into Black Leader, you know,

1198
01:01:31,040 --> 01:01:33,520
Speaker 1: but I know what she meant, you know, so since

1199
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:35,240
Speaker 1: then because I'm gonna you know, I mean, there's so

1200
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:37,439
Speaker 1: many different questions and you know, people like you didn't

1201
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:39,040
Speaker 1: ask this, you didn't ask that, But you know, we're

1202
01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:42,240
Speaker 1: just hanging out. This isn't a like but but and

1203
01:01:42,320 --> 01:01:45,240
Speaker 1: Courtney Love what has been her response? And you know, like,

1204
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:47,520
Speaker 1: what was she hard to work with? What she not

1205
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:49,840
Speaker 1: hard to work with? She's supportive. No, she was the

1206
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:53,040
Speaker 1: fucking greatest man. I didn't the champion this whole thing.

1207
01:01:53,640 --> 01:02:00,760
Speaker 1: She Courtney championed me as a filmmaker to the stand

1208
01:02:00,800 --> 01:02:04,840
Speaker 1: that she signed a waiver, gave me access to everything.

1209
01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:10,720
Speaker 1: Um Din asked for licensing fees, didn't asked to see

1210
01:02:10,720 --> 01:02:16,280
Speaker 1: the film, and I had Finally I had full authority

1211
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:21,040
Speaker 1: and final cut this film. You know, basically from the

1212
01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:25,640
Speaker 1: time we started cutting the film. And so was she supportive.

1213
01:02:26,040 --> 01:02:28,200
Speaker 1: You can't be more supportive than that. The greatest gift

1214
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:32,200
Speaker 1: you can give someone is trust and respect, and she

1215
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:35,200
Speaker 1: gave me that in Spade. Um, was that going to

1216
01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:40,960
Speaker 1: color how I presented her? Absolutely? Not Like there was

1217
01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:43,280
Speaker 1: no way in fact that I was convinced she was

1218
01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:45,600
Speaker 1: going to hate the film. Convinced she was gonna hate

1219
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:49,040
Speaker 1: the film? What what? What? Like? Was specifically what the ending?

1220
01:02:49,120 --> 01:02:51,440
Speaker 1: I was sure she was gonna go ballistic. That The

1221
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:53,480
Speaker 1: last thing you hear in the film is that Kurt

1222
01:02:53,880 --> 01:02:56,200
Speaker 1: took six and nine row fin all because he thought

1223
01:02:56,200 --> 01:02:59,840
Speaker 1: Courtney was cheating on That was that was real. Seen

1224
01:02:59,880 --> 01:03:04,920
Speaker 1: the her with Francis on Heroin singing amazing grace. Um,

1225
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:07,160
Speaker 1: the way she looks, she's naked in every shot of

1226
01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:09,760
Speaker 1: the film, and it's not glamorous, you know. I mean,

1227
01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:13,960
Speaker 1: you know this is a fifty year old woman, you know.

1228
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:16,480
Speaker 1: And she didn't have any say dude, I mean I

1229
01:03:16,520 --> 01:03:18,840
Speaker 1: did ask Francis. I was like, as your mom can

1230
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:20,840
Speaker 1: try to be concerned about the nudity, and she was like,

1231
01:03:21,080 --> 01:03:23,760
Speaker 1: because we were we locked picture. We were on our

1232
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:25,560
Speaker 1: way to Sundance for court Corny saw the film three

1233
01:03:25,600 --> 01:03:27,560
Speaker 1: days for Sundance. It was the first time, the first

1234
01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:30,520
Speaker 1: time movies done. Okay, so there's no going back. So

1235
01:03:30,600 --> 01:03:32,240
Speaker 1: I had to go to Francis. I was like, look,

1236
01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:34,760
Speaker 1: you know, what should we should we tell your mom

1237
01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:37,640
Speaker 1: about all this news. It's my mom, please, you know.

1238
01:03:37,760 --> 01:03:43,080
Speaker 1: It's like she's it's nothing, nothing first time. Well that's

1239
01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:45,880
Speaker 1: fucking I mean, that's a Let me let me just

1240
01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:48,640
Speaker 1: ask you, my my, my. This is just a random

1241
01:03:48,680 --> 01:03:52,520
Speaker 1: five documentaries that a lot of people haven't seen that

1242
01:03:52,600 --> 01:03:57,800
Speaker 1: they can see that Brett Morgan recommends, so not not

1243
01:03:57,800 --> 01:03:59,840
Speaker 1: not the typical ones, but not ones that you go like,

1244
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:01,680
Speaker 1: well you have to go to a French museum and

1245
01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:07,800
Speaker 1: give you five suggestions of uh Brothers Keeper by Joe

1246
01:04:07,840 --> 01:04:12,400
Speaker 1: Brelinger and Brucenofsky or um, yeah, I think that's probably

1247
01:04:12,440 --> 01:04:19,640
Speaker 1: Brother's Keeper is accessible. Um shiit Michael, you can give me.

1248
01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:22,880
Speaker 1: I really like Man on Wires. You know they're making

1249
01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:27,360
Speaker 1: that into a feature. They are. Yeah that Robert mackis Um.

1250
01:04:27,480 --> 01:04:31,880
Speaker 1: I like, uh, I really like Man on Wire. I think, um, um,

1251
01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:36,080
Speaker 1: this is gonna sound surprised people. Wild Man Blues. I

1252
01:04:36,120 --> 01:04:39,800
Speaker 1: think he's a great movie. Um, Fast Cheaping out of Control.

1253
01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:44,880
Speaker 1: They are a Morris film. Highly highly highly recommend that film.

1254
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:48,640
Speaker 1: Um and I think that's five tripe cod quest. No,

1255
01:04:48,920 --> 01:04:50,640
Speaker 1: you can't give me one more, give me one more?

1256
01:04:50,680 --> 01:04:52,440
Speaker 1: Like like you're like, this is an important film to

1257
01:04:52,440 --> 01:04:56,400
Speaker 1: watch that you know, it's not one that everybody has seen.

1258
01:04:56,720 --> 01:05:01,160
Speaker 1: I think. I think, um or not typical yeah, um um.

1259
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:04,160
Speaker 1: There's a film called Mandabala oh wait, which I think

1260
01:05:04,240 --> 01:05:06,360
Speaker 1: it was about Brazil. Oh. I saw that film when

1261
01:05:06,360 --> 01:05:09,600
Speaker 1: the Grandarry present sound and that's a good film project them.

1262
01:05:09,680 --> 01:05:12,360
Speaker 1: Another film by James marsh That one was hard to

1263
01:05:12,600 --> 01:05:18,440
Speaker 1: because the monkeys and that was tough. Yeah that's brittle. Um.

1264
01:05:18,560 --> 01:05:21,600
Speaker 1: Barbara car Cobble another Barbara Cobble, Harland County U s Hey,

1265
01:05:22,200 --> 01:05:26,080
Speaker 1: great movie. Um, you know I like, I like documentaries

1266
01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:29,600
Speaker 1: that feel directed. That's why like James Marsh's Docks, like

1267
01:05:29,800 --> 01:05:32,640
Speaker 1: Man of Wiron Project then where you really feel like,

1268
01:05:34,200 --> 01:05:36,160
Speaker 1: you know, it's not just the story, it's not just

1269
01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:38,920
Speaker 1: how making is making the story of life. What do

1270
01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:41,480
Speaker 1: you think about? Like they've called this this time and

1271
01:05:41,560 --> 01:05:45,680
Speaker 1: documentary filmmaking the golden age of documentaries, And I think

1272
01:05:45,680 --> 01:05:48,560
Speaker 1: it's great. You know, I think, you know, you're you're

1273
01:05:48,560 --> 01:05:52,160
Speaker 1: gonna get some not well done ones, but the access

1274
01:05:52,280 --> 01:05:55,080
Speaker 1: to them and the fact that they're in the vernacular

1275
01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:58,320
Speaker 1: because of Netflix and because of you know, all the

1276
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:02,400
Speaker 1: different ways to watch them, you know, like all the downloading. Yeah,

1277
01:06:02,520 --> 01:06:05,720
Speaker 1: you know. UM, do you feel like that oversaturates it

1278
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:08,480
Speaker 1: or do you celebrate that more people? I mean, I

1279
01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:12,640
Speaker 1: think I think what's happening right now is um is

1280
01:06:13,560 --> 01:06:14,960
Speaker 1: we were saying this earlier. I think part of the

1281
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:18,680
Speaker 1: reason that's so exciting right now is that you have

1282
01:06:18,800 --> 01:06:24,000
Speaker 1: to sort of distinguish yourselves from reality television. So the

1283
01:06:24,520 --> 01:06:27,120
Speaker 1: as far as docks of the aesthetics are are better,

1284
01:06:27,360 --> 01:06:30,240
Speaker 1: I think that UM having access to them obviously is

1285
01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:33,360
Speaker 1: a win win. Looking back at the last like thirty

1286
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:35,680
Speaker 1: or forty years, I think from two thousand to to

1287
01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:38,920
Speaker 1: two thousand seven. People look back at this magical period

1288
01:06:38,920 --> 01:06:41,000
Speaker 1: because that was where all the top grossing docks in

1289
01:06:41,080 --> 01:06:44,040
Speaker 1: history all came out during that period. Fahrenheit, March of

1290
01:06:44,080 --> 01:06:46,120
Speaker 1: the Penguins, supicides Me. I mean it was like boom,

1291
01:06:46,160 --> 01:06:48,360
Speaker 1: boom boom. I mean it was like that set it

1292
01:06:48,360 --> 01:06:50,240
Speaker 1: off kind of. It was crazy. I mean it was

1293
01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:53,000
Speaker 1: crazy man um Wing Migration, I mean, all these films

1294
01:06:53,000 --> 01:06:57,080
Speaker 1: were doing tremendous like fifty million dollars at the box office,

1295
01:06:57,080 --> 01:06:59,520
Speaker 1: and then Michael Moore Ones and the and the I

1296
01:06:59,520 --> 01:07:02,200
Speaker 1: mean two thousand two Kids Hating the Patron Bowling for

1297
01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:07,200
Speaker 1: a Columbine came out and um, the kid was I

1298
01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:10,120
Speaker 1: think brought a lot of technical advances and Bowling Combine

1299
01:07:10,160 --> 01:07:13,040
Speaker 1: broke down the audiences three million dollars and then what's

1300
01:07:13,040 --> 01:07:17,280
Speaker 1: the one with the Fuckinghrenheit did fifty millions. So if

1301
01:07:17,320 --> 01:07:22,520
Speaker 1: you can do a documentary on one entertainment subject or

1302
01:07:22,600 --> 01:07:26,440
Speaker 1: what would be your your your dream doc like on

1303
01:07:26,560 --> 01:07:29,840
Speaker 1: something that's accessible that you may never do or that

1304
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:31,840
Speaker 1: like if you as a filmmaker, that you would be

1305
01:07:31,880 --> 01:07:34,360
Speaker 1: like this would be my my, my, my next one.

1306
01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:36,040
Speaker 1: If if I had it, my way I would do

1307
01:07:36,080 --> 01:07:40,080
Speaker 1: a dock on who or what. Um, I really feel

1308
01:07:40,120 --> 01:07:44,760
Speaker 1: the woral needs led Zeppelin doc like a proper Zeppelin.

1309
01:07:46,040 --> 01:07:48,080
Speaker 1: Have you put that out in the universe? Aside from

1310
01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:50,920
Speaker 1: on this podcast that you said knowing seven people listening

1311
01:07:50,920 --> 01:07:53,040
Speaker 1: to me, I think I did a couple of years ago,

1312
01:07:53,640 --> 01:07:57,520
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna try to reignite them and see what happens.

1313
01:07:57,560 --> 01:08:03,280
Speaker 1: But um, you know, honestly, this is gonna sounding weird.

1314
01:08:03,320 --> 01:08:08,400
Speaker 1: Michael sitting here right now, I would probably tell you

1315
01:08:08,440 --> 01:08:12,520
Speaker 1: that there is probably no better subject that for me,

1316
01:08:12,720 --> 01:08:15,840
Speaker 1: maybe for for you or someone better. But I can't

1317
01:08:15,920 --> 01:08:19,000
Speaker 1: think of a better subject than Kurt Cobain here. That

1318
01:08:19,120 --> 01:08:21,519
Speaker 1: was that it's and so it's you know, it's it's

1319
01:08:21,520 --> 01:08:24,599
Speaker 1: tough because for the type of films I'm interested in making.

1320
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:28,200
Speaker 1: He had everything, he brought everything to the table. Um,

1321
01:08:29,120 --> 01:08:31,920
Speaker 1: you know, his his his arc of his life. You

1322
01:08:31,920 --> 01:08:34,920
Speaker 1: know we were talking about like artists and sometimes they

1323
01:08:34,960 --> 01:08:37,959
Speaker 1: make great music, but that doesn't kirch arc is biblical.

1324
01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:42,559
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's it's it plays out that way,

1325
01:08:43,040 --> 01:08:47,639
Speaker 1: you know, like this foundation myth and and his ability

1326
01:08:47,680 --> 01:08:51,880
Speaker 1: to express himself in these mediums that lend themselves so succinctly.

1327
01:08:51,880 --> 01:08:53,519
Speaker 1: It's his cinema. It's just it was. He was the

1328
01:08:53,520 --> 01:08:56,120
Speaker 1: perfect canvas. So I would say Zeppelin is my dream?

1329
01:08:56,240 --> 01:08:59,439
Speaker 1: Is the dream doc that I think needs to be made? Well,

1330
01:08:59,479 --> 01:09:01,360
Speaker 1: what kind of channels and doors that you gotta get

1331
01:09:01,439 --> 01:09:04,240
Speaker 1: knocked down to do that? Like, I mean these you know,

1332
01:09:04,280 --> 01:09:06,280
Speaker 1: the thing is is like these guys are getting older.

1333
01:09:06,280 --> 01:09:10,240
Speaker 1: It's like, I agree, that's a great fucking subject. And

1334
01:09:10,520 --> 01:09:12,439
Speaker 1: you know, want to talk about sexy and r I mean,

1335
01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:15,480
Speaker 1: you gotta fucking playground to play with with those guys,

1336
01:09:15,520 --> 01:09:17,680
Speaker 1: Like who do we got to talk to? You know,

1337
01:09:17,760 --> 01:09:20,160
Speaker 1: there's just like, what's the fucking protocol to get a

1338
01:09:20,200 --> 01:09:23,000
Speaker 1: led Zeppelin? Do you go through? You got through management?

1339
01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:25,599
Speaker 1: You hope that they like your movies and then you know, okay,

1340
01:09:25,600 --> 01:09:28,560
Speaker 1: that's cool. Let's just say I pretty much for guarantee

1341
01:09:28,840 --> 01:09:31,000
Speaker 1: they like your movies. So then what do we do?

1342
01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:34,760
Speaker 1: What the fuck? Well, that's a film that wouldn't be

1343
01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:37,439
Speaker 1: I would have no trouble raising. Well, what do you mean,

1344
01:09:37,479 --> 01:09:38,800
Speaker 1: what do we do we get? You gotta get plan

1345
01:09:38,880 --> 01:09:41,280
Speaker 1: and page on board. Okay, what do they what? What's

1346
01:09:41,320 --> 01:09:44,160
Speaker 1: the problem They're they're still bickering, They're not getting along.

1347
01:09:44,360 --> 01:09:49,080
Speaker 1: You know, it's hard to entice a subject that doesn't

1348
01:09:49,120 --> 01:09:52,599
Speaker 1: need it. Yeah, but it's much You're much better off

1349
01:09:52,600 --> 01:09:55,320
Speaker 1: list wild Man Blues. And I don't know the full

1350
01:09:55,360 --> 01:09:57,600
Speaker 1: backstory to this. I do know this. I know that

1351
01:09:57,640 --> 01:10:02,839
Speaker 1: Barbara had that that Woody Wildman Blues is a documentary

1352
01:10:02,880 --> 01:10:07,479
Speaker 1: about Woody Allen his jazz bands, and really it's about

1353
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:10,200
Speaker 1: Sunny and Woody. Yeah, it's very intimate for Woody Allen.

1354
01:10:10,479 --> 01:10:13,040
Speaker 1: It's the It's as intimate as you'll get. And because

1355
01:10:13,120 --> 01:10:16,400
Speaker 1: part of the context of that was wood he had

1356
01:10:16,439 --> 01:10:19,320
Speaker 1: final cut, if I'm not mistaken, which was important because

1357
01:10:19,320 --> 01:10:21,880
Speaker 1: he left Barbara film everything. And at the end of

1358
01:10:21,880 --> 01:10:24,759
Speaker 1: the day, wood he's asked, had nothing to do with

1359
01:10:24,760 --> 01:10:27,920
Speaker 1: with the only had to do with music, Like his

1360
01:10:27,960 --> 01:10:30,679
Speaker 1: only notes to Barbara had to do with his clarinet playing.

1361
01:10:30,680 --> 01:10:32,880
Speaker 1: It wasn't about take that scene this thing, so she

1362
01:10:32,960 --> 01:10:40,040
Speaker 1: got to shoot everything and um and uh fuck, what

1363
01:10:40,320 --> 01:10:43,320
Speaker 1: you're talking about like impotence to do it, and so

1364
01:10:43,400 --> 01:10:45,240
Speaker 1: you know, like he had a bad there's a bad

1365
01:10:45,320 --> 01:10:47,880
Speaker 1: rap about Woody and Sunny in the press. And I

1366
01:10:47,880 --> 01:10:49,720
Speaker 1: think that I no one ever told me this, but

1367
01:10:49,760 --> 01:10:52,240
Speaker 1: I bet part of what encouraged him or inspired him

1368
01:10:52,280 --> 01:10:54,280
Speaker 1: to do that was that he wanted he had a

1369
01:10:54,320 --> 01:10:58,639
Speaker 1: reason humanized himself and humanizing relationship. And you know, sometimes

1370
01:10:58,640 --> 01:11:01,839
Speaker 1: the reason is someone's got a piece film to promote,

1371
01:11:02,160 --> 01:11:05,240
Speaker 1: you know, or a record to promote, and and and so,

1372
01:11:06,479 --> 01:11:09,880
Speaker 1: or they want a boost their catalog or something. Well,

1373
01:11:10,040 --> 01:11:12,559
Speaker 1: Zeppelin doesn't need a boost to the catalog. They don't

1374
01:11:12,560 --> 01:11:14,840
Speaker 1: need money. No, they don't need money. But and they

1375
01:11:14,840 --> 01:11:18,080
Speaker 1: don't need their legacies cemented. If there was a subject

1376
01:11:18,080 --> 01:11:22,040
Speaker 1: that had nothing to do with celebrity groups or any artist,

1377
01:11:22,720 --> 01:11:24,720
Speaker 1: is there like a specific thing that you're zeroing in

1378
01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:28,080
Speaker 1: on next, like that social political crime? Is there anything

1379
01:11:28,120 --> 01:11:31,639
Speaker 1: like in that area? I I think that, um, well, yeah,

1380
01:11:31,640 --> 01:11:33,760
Speaker 1: there's this thing about urban culture that I may do,

1381
01:11:33,960 --> 01:11:37,800
Speaker 1: but it will be it won't be like a um essay,

1382
01:11:37,880 --> 01:11:40,600
Speaker 1: it will be a film in play like film. I

1383
01:11:40,640 --> 01:11:43,960
Speaker 1: think that, Um, I mean, there's issues. I'm concerned about it.

1384
01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:49,800
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know if Chicago Chen was I

1385
01:11:49,840 --> 01:11:55,200
Speaker 1: don't know the fucking another attempted an integrating called you know,

1386
01:11:55,280 --> 01:11:58,320
Speaker 1: I feel that there are other people who can do

1387
01:11:59,280 --> 01:12:04,040
Speaker 1: that's off better and you know, with a movie, honestly,

1388
01:12:04,160 --> 01:12:07,560
Speaker 1: and I'm not trying to be cheek or anything. I'm

1389
01:12:08,479 --> 01:12:10,400
Speaker 1: My goal is to entertain people for two hours. I

1390
01:12:10,439 --> 01:12:13,360
Speaker 1: hear you, and if I could entertain them, that is epic,

1391
01:12:13,760 --> 01:12:17,080
Speaker 1: and anything beyond that's gravy, right. And because I'm the

1392
01:12:17,120 --> 01:12:18,800
Speaker 1: type of person if I go see a movie and

1393
01:12:18,840 --> 01:12:22,160
Speaker 1: I love movies, and you know, like we just had

1394
01:12:22,160 --> 01:12:24,040
Speaker 1: a Memorial Day weekend, and my wife looked to me

1395
01:12:24,040 --> 01:12:26,600
Speaker 1: really silly on Monday when I said I wanted to

1396
01:12:26,600 --> 01:12:29,360
Speaker 1: take the kids to Pitch Perfect. I have no interest

1397
01:12:29,400 --> 01:12:30,680
Speaker 1: in Pitch Perfect. I just want to go. And you

1398
01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:32,200
Speaker 1: don't want to know what it is. I'm addicted to

1399
01:12:32,240 --> 01:12:35,320
Speaker 1: popcorn and for some reason, it doesn't taste it. And

1400
01:12:35,360 --> 01:12:37,320
Speaker 1: that's what I'm finally realized, is I actually I am

1401
01:12:37,360 --> 01:12:40,200
Speaker 1: just going to eat right, you know I I'm starting

1402
01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:41,720
Speaker 1: to think that too, because when I go there, it's

1403
01:12:41,760 --> 01:12:44,759
Speaker 1: like an excuse to be what It's an excuse because

1404
01:12:44,760 --> 01:12:46,920
Speaker 1: it's your program, your whole life. You go there. It's

1405
01:12:46,960 --> 01:12:49,320
Speaker 1: the candy that I I don't drink soda, but I

1406
01:12:49,320 --> 01:12:52,040
Speaker 1: will get the biggest soda. What is that? I don't know.

1407
01:12:52,200 --> 01:12:54,960
Speaker 1: It's like it's like Pavlov's theory. It's like your body

1408
01:12:55,040 --> 01:12:57,679
Speaker 1: just you go into the theater. You want to eat

1409
01:12:57,720 --> 01:13:00,639
Speaker 1: ship and hopefully see something good and and and I'll

1410
01:13:00,680 --> 01:13:03,200
Speaker 1: see ship just to eat the ship because you've been

1411
01:13:03,200 --> 01:13:05,800
Speaker 1: here for two hours, we've been talking and and you

1412
01:13:05,840 --> 01:13:08,519
Speaker 1: have a okay, you have a Starbucks or something. And

1413
01:13:08,760 --> 01:13:10,640
Speaker 1: but it's not like we had to eat snacks over

1414
01:13:10,680 --> 01:13:12,479
Speaker 1: the last two hours. But if we spent these two

1415
01:13:12,520 --> 01:13:14,360
Speaker 1: hours in the movie theater, if we went saw mathon

1416
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:16,320
Speaker 1: a day, we would fucking get a tub of popcorn.

1417
01:13:16,439 --> 01:13:19,720
Speaker 1: Tub and bond bonds used to be the thing, twizzlers

1418
01:13:19,840 --> 01:13:21,800
Speaker 1: or red vines, depending if you're on the East or

1419
01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:24,120
Speaker 1: West coast. But I don't know. I think it's I

1420
01:13:24,120 --> 01:13:26,559
Speaker 1: think it's literally like because you do it, you've done

1421
01:13:26,560 --> 01:13:29,400
Speaker 1: it as a child, your programmed. Like it's just like

1422
01:13:29,479 --> 01:13:31,720
Speaker 1: you walk in and you I remember at one time

1423
01:13:31,760 --> 01:13:33,240
Speaker 1: I was on a I was doing a movie and

1424
01:13:33,240 --> 01:13:35,519
Speaker 1: I was I was juicing. I was doing a juice

1425
01:13:35,520 --> 01:13:37,479
Speaker 1: fast and I went to the movie theater and I

1426
01:13:37,520 --> 01:13:39,080
Speaker 1: was like, I'm not gonna have any popcorn. I'm not

1427
01:13:39,080 --> 01:13:41,000
Speaker 1: gonna and I brought my fucking juices in there. And

1428
01:13:41,040 --> 01:13:43,479
Speaker 1: I don't remember what I saw, but I mean it

1429
01:13:43,600 --> 01:13:45,439
Speaker 1: was like it took away from it. I could have

1430
01:13:45,479 --> 01:13:47,600
Speaker 1: been watching that. I could have been watching The Godfather,

1431
01:13:47,680 --> 01:13:49,960
Speaker 1: but I had to have my green juice an hour

1432
01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:52,600
Speaker 1: and fifteen minutes into the movie. All right, this is

1433
01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:58,800
Speaker 1: the Iron rapp Podcast and we're done. American Giants sponsors

1434
01:13:59,040 --> 01:14:04,040
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