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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that,

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Speaker 2: Let's get to the show.

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Speaker 3: All right, Welcome back to Counterpoints. Glad to be back

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Speaker 3: in the studio. We were not here last week.

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Speaker 4: Because of the Republican debates, which I hear was a

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Speaker 4: lot of fun.

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Speaker 5: Was a blast. You didn't watch in France.

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Speaker 3: I did not watch that.

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Speaker 6: Ryan has been doing a home swap in France, and

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Speaker 6: I think Kedo really relaxing, fun time with this family.

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Speaker 4: I think it was like four am and I was like,

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Speaker 4: you know what, I'm not going to watch this undercard. No,

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Speaker 4: I'll catch the Trump Tucker calls some clips later.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, there you go, sleep through this. Well, it's good

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Speaker 5: to have you back in studio.

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Speaker 3: Good to be here.

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Speaker 6: All right, Well, we're tracking the hurricane that actually became

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Speaker 6: a Category four storm off the coast of Florida overnight

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Speaker 6: and Wednesday early and early this morning, briefly intensified, as

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Speaker 6: CNN says, into an extremely dangerous Category four hurricane with

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Speaker 6: winds of one hundred and thirty miles per hour before

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Speaker 6: it weakened slightly. We have some video coming in from

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Speaker 6: Florida just as we're taping this right now.

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Speaker 5: Take a look.

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Speaker 6: Incredible storm sers here this morning at about seven o'clock.

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Speaker 2: I'm sitting there.

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Speaker 7: Look at one of the marine markers coming through.

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Speaker 5: That's a marine marker right there. So that's a big water,

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Speaker 5: big wave action.

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Speaker 8: It's a protein houses.

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Speaker 3: Here on the Fresh Free and pick this.

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Speaker 5: Lost power live on air now.

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Speaker 6: The National Hurricane Center is predicting there could be a

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Speaker 6: surge of upteen up to sixteen feet, which would be

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Speaker 6: around once in a lifetime levels again according to CNN.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is hitting kind of the hinge.

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Speaker 4: What do you call that area at Florida where the

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Speaker 4: Panhandle meets the rest of it, something like the hen

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Speaker 4: let's go with that. And it's smashing right through there.

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Speaker 4: It's going to come up the eastern seaboard. We have

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Speaker 4: Ronda Santis here if we want to play his response

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Speaker 4: Governor of Florida.

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Speaker 9: So we are going to have the full landfall impacts

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Speaker 9: very very shortly, within the next couple hours, most likely

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Speaker 9: probably by zero eight hundred. It's going to make landfall

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Speaker 9: on Florida's Big Bend. So please hunker down wherever you are.

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Speaker 9: I don't mess with this storm. Don't do anything that's

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Speaker 9: going to put yourself in jeopardy. And there'll be a

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Speaker 9: lot of help coming on the back end of the storm,

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Speaker 9: and we're ready to go. We as soon as it's

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Speaker 9: safe to do. So you're going to see all these

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Speaker 9: different assets deployed.

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Speaker 4: I knew there was something the Big Bend, the Big Bend,

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Speaker 4: the Big Bend, and there was some reporting last night

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Speaker 4: that a lot of sheriffs and others from the rural

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Speaker 4: counties in the Big Bend urging people to get out.

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Speaker 4: A lot of people did not get out because even

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Speaker 4: though this is a once in a lifetime storm, Florida's

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Speaker 4: seen plenty of storms before.

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Speaker 3: So people think, you know, we're.

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Speaker 4: Going to hunker down, as Desanta said, and we're gonna

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Speaker 4: and we're gonna make it through this.

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Speaker 3: And the sheriff was saying.

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Speaker 4: That there were way too many spots open in the

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Speaker 4: shelters that you know, in an elementary school at handles

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Speaker 4: seven hundred, they might have one hundred. And so there's

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Speaker 4: a lot of fear that a lot of people stayed,

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Speaker 4: not understanding just how bad it could be. Because if

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Speaker 4: you are judging you know, present and future climate events

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Speaker 4: by the past, you might miss out on some you know,

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Speaker 4: stream ones that are going to hit you.

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Speaker 6: And you know, it's also expensive to leave. It's inconvenient

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Speaker 6: to leave if you have a shift that you.

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Speaker 3: Need to getet towards to go to an elementary school

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Speaker 3: spend the night. Yeah that's true.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, absolutely, Why would you leave the comfort of your home?

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Speaker 6: Why would you want to if you don't have to,

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Speaker 6: and if you feel like you don't have to because

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Speaker 6: these warnings sometimes you know, are moved down, they're bumped down,

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Speaker 6: they start really severe and things change as the day

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Speaker 6: goes on, and so people take their chances. But hope

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Speaker 6: everybody who did that the same is staying safe.

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Speaker 4: And there was a storm chaser on Fox News who

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Speaker 4: was telling people like, no, no, no, seriously, get out,

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Speaker 4: get out. So if we have to, we have that

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Speaker 4: Fox News clip here we can roll for that.

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Speaker 7: Center is going to approach this area within the next

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Speaker 7: hour to hour and a half, and we're going to

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Speaker 7: see those winds switch around and we're going to have

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Speaker 7: to watch for a major water push that's going to

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Speaker 7: come inland. Luckily, we have not seen much in the

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Speaker 7: way of people out here in this area, which is

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Speaker 7: a great thing. We were here yesterday afternoon talking to residents,

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Speaker 7: talking to the Taylor County Deputy.

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Speaker 3: There was a curfew in effect.

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Speaker 7: There's a pretty much a mandatory evacuation in effect. So

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Speaker 7: this is a very rare scenario with a system coming

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Speaker 7: out of the eastern Gulf of Mexico that has made

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Speaker 7: major hurricane status, because that just does not happen in

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Speaker 7: this region.

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Speaker 4: Yea, And later in the show, we're going to talk

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Speaker 4: about several climate protests, kind of one that was out

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Speaker 4: at burning Man, another in Washington, d C. All of

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Speaker 4: them went terribly, you know, you know, furious reactions from

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Speaker 4: the public, and I think part of it comes from

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Speaker 4: and we can talk about this more later. Nobody needs

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Speaker 4: awareness raised anymore about climate Like if there's basically nobody

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Speaker 4: left in the country who doesn't think the climate is

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Speaker 4: changing in dangerous ways and also that it's happening because.

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Speaker 3: Man made carbon emissions.

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Speaker 4: Like almost nobody left now the big fight is over

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Speaker 4: what to do about it. Even Vivek in that debate

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Speaker 4: when he said the climate agenda, So he's being very

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Speaker 4: smarmy and clever there and like because some people are

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Speaker 4: going to hear that as climate stuff as a hoax,

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Speaker 4: But what he's saying is the agenda as a hoax.

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Speaker 3: So he's saying, like, Okay, I agree the climate is changing.

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Speaker 4: What I don't agree with is how the left wants

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Speaker 4: to use it to kind of re engineer society. But

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Speaker 4: about I'm ten years ago or so, I remember thinking,

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Speaker 4: all right, it's clear that we're not going to do

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Speaker 4: enough about climate change in my lifetime and that we're

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Speaker 4: going to see utterly catastrophic results. As in the end,

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Speaker 4: it's like, at least I'll be around for that comforting

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Speaker 4: feeling if I told you so. Nothing better in the

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Speaker 4: world than being able to say I told you so

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Speaker 4: to people who fought against the opportunity when it was

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Speaker 4: around to do something about it. Watching it happen now,

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Speaker 4: I don't get an ounce of satisfaction, Like I'm even

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Speaker 4: deprived of the satisfaction of being able to say I

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Speaker 4: told you so, Like seeing what happened in Vermont, seeing

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Speaker 4: what's happened happened in Canada, of seeing what's happening down

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Speaker 4: in Florida right now, none of that even brings me

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Speaker 4: an ounce of like I told you so, Joy, I.

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Speaker 5: Would I would be worried if it did. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: And I think it's abstract, you know, ten years ago

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Speaker 4: it's abstract. What what's what's this? What's this climate apocalypse

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Speaker 4: going to look like? But when you see some of

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Speaker 4: those images where the inland areas have been just been

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Speaker 4: turned into ocean, and what is what's that going to

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Speaker 4: leave behind? I was driving through the Panhandle a year

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Speaker 4: or two ago, and you could still see all the devastation.

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Speaker 4: I forget which hurricane it was, but you could it was.

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Speaker 4: It was not a couple of weeks prior. It was

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Speaker 4: like years prior, and you could still see debris and

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Speaker 4: you could still see destruction. I talked to someoney from

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Speaker 4: Montpelier last night. They are they've barely recovered from that

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Speaker 4: flood up in Vermont. And so as these continue once

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Speaker 4: in a lifetime events continue to accumulate, and we become

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Speaker 4: increasingly unable to recover.

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Speaker 3: From them, like what kind of world does that leave

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Speaker 3: behind us?

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Speaker 6: And you know, I think you and I have disagreements

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Speaker 6: on this, but well, and we can flush some of

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Speaker 6: those out in the climate blox. But it's another big

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Speaker 6: question for media because one thing I wanted to mention

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Speaker 6: here actually is that there's still hundreds of people unaccounted

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Speaker 6: for in Maui, and the media coverage of that has slowed.

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Speaker 5: To a trickle at best.

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Speaker 6: And again, we're looking at years of rebuilding in Maui,

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Speaker 6: we're looking at a devastated local economy, and we're looking

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Speaker 6: at potentially somewhere around a thousand, if not more deaths.

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Speaker 6: We have one hundred and fifteen confirmed deaths as of

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Speaker 6: right now, which is a staggering number right now already

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Speaker 6: that's a staggering number. It could climb by some tenfold

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Speaker 6: by the time all of the.

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Speaker 5: Dust, so to speak, settles.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And as I was riding in this morning, I

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Speaker 4: was thinking of one. I was going over all the

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Speaker 4: twenty years of climate arguments that we've been having over

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Speaker 4: the years, one of them that used to hear a

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Speaker 4: lot was this one.

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Speaker 3: Do you remember maybe you still hear it?

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Speaker 4: Like hey, in the sixteenth century, we had a little

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Speaker 4: ice age. Now things get colder, things get hotter. That's

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Speaker 4: all there is to it. What are you gonna do

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Speaker 4: about it? You know, it happens. What I've learned since

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Speaker 4: then is that have you heard the theory on why

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Speaker 4: we had that little.

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Speaker 3: Ice age in the sixteenth Saturday.

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Speaker 4: So in fourteen hundred and fifteen hundreds Columbus and the

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Speaker 4: Europeans come over to the New World, and they bring

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Speaker 4: disease with them. You have a ninety percent population die

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Speaker 4: off as a result of that disease coming in. Humanity

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Speaker 4: is always at war with nature, or humanity is always

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Speaker 4: war with vegetation at least. And so with ninety percent

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Speaker 4: of people gone, vegetation just took over North America, which

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Speaker 4: is why you have all these descriptions of this kind

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Speaker 4: of untouched wilderness one hundred years later that people came through.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't that way two hundred years ago.

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Speaker 4: It became that way over the course of like fifty

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Speaker 4: years from all of this just kind of wilderness taking

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Speaker 4: back over where humans had been. And what does vegetation

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Speaker 4: do sucks carbon out of the air. So even the

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Speaker 4: silly kind of pedantic point that people made about the

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Speaker 4: little ice age actually turned out to be also anthropogenic

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Speaker 4: in the beginning. Or you could blame a virus, or

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Speaker 4: you can blame disease if you want, but it was

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Speaker 4: humans that carried the disease over there. And so it

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Speaker 4: just shows that, as Elon Musk said on Twitter just

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Speaker 4: the other day that at the carbon not Twitter refuse,

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Speaker 4: I absolutely refuse that carbon concentration in the atmosphere matters.

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Speaker 4: Like it's like it doesn't care about your feelings or

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Speaker 4: your politics.

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Speaker 5: Like carbon doesn't care about your feelings.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it doesn't.

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Speaker 4: You take carbon out, gets colder, you put more carbon in,

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Speaker 4: it gets warmer. Like this is basic stuff and there's

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Speaker 4: just no way around it.

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Speaker 5: All right.

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Speaker 6: So moving on from this one thing that didn't get

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Speaker 6: a lot of play in the media this week is

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Speaker 6: a little thing that Marjorie Taylor Green of all people,

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Speaker 6: said on I think it was like a real America's

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Speaker 6: voice hit something like that, but actually has pretty big

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Speaker 6: implication for implications for our politics going forward. Lots of

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Speaker 6: Republicans kicking around the idea of impeachment, and I think

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Speaker 6: that's about to get really serious. Let's listen to what

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Speaker 6: Marjorie Taylor Green has to say, let's.

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Speaker 1: Talk about what an impeachment inquiry is. Marina, thank you

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Speaker 1: for bringing that up. And impeachment inquiry is just asking

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Speaker 1: the question. We're just asking members of Congress do you

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Speaker 1: think we should inquire about impeachment? It's not saying do

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Speaker 1: you want to impeach? Right?

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Speaker 8: Should we just ask the question? And at this point, right.

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Speaker 1: Now, I'm like, what the hell is wrong with Republicans

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Speaker 1: that we can't just hey, guys, maybe ask the question.

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Speaker 5: Maybe we should just ask.

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Speaker 1: And think about it and look at it and investigate

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Speaker 1: in a much broader way and with more subpoena power.

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Speaker 8: Just ask the question, just real quick. That leaves the

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Speaker 8: decision to Kevin McCarthy ultimately.

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Speaker 9: Are you confident he's going to go with the impeachment

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Speaker 9: inquiry this fall in September?

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Speaker 1: I am confident. And the reason why I'm confident is

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Speaker 1: we had a House GOP call yesterday and that was

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Speaker 1: his big push on the call. So I think if

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Speaker 1: we were to have the vote today right now, Kevin

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Speaker 1: McCarthy would be one of the first ones to vote yes.

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Speaker 6: So the Speaker of the House is about ready to

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Speaker 6: vote to start an impeachment inquiry. Ryan, let's play this

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Speaker 6: clip of Hakeem Jefferies as well, because he's already i think,

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Speaker 6: anticipating an impeachment inquiry and has a I think you

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Speaker 6: get a little taste of the Democrat messaging strategy ahead

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Speaker 6: when you listen to how he responded to questions about

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Speaker 6: that on CNN.

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Speaker 8: Potentially as soon as the end of next month.

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Speaker 6: Is what our colleague, melaniees Andoda I know you know

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Speaker 6: quite well, has been reporting.

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Speaker 9: Your response to Republicans inching towards launching an impeachment and

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Speaker 9: qureer into the president.

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Speaker 10: Well throughout this year, the American people have been forced

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Speaker 10: to deal with a do nothing, extreme Republican Congress that

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Speaker 10: has done nothing to make a difference in the economy,

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Speaker 10: nothing to make a difference with respect the job creation,

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Speaker 10: nothing as it relates to healthcare affordability, nothing as it

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Speaker 10: relates to inflation, nothing as it relates to public safety.

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Speaker 10: They have nothing to show for their majority throughout the year,

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Speaker 10: and so as a natural consequence of that, they just

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Speaker 10: continue to take orders from Donald Trump, their puppet master

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Speaker 10: in chief, who has directed them to persecute and to

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Speaker 10: go after Joe Biden, which may take the form of

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Speaker 10: an illegitimate impeachment inquiry.

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Speaker 6: So finally, I would just point out that Kevin McCarthy

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Speaker 6: actually addressed some of these comments on Sunday, So before

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Speaker 6: both of those conversations happen, we can put the last

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Speaker 6: element up on the screen here. He said, So if

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Speaker 6: you look at all the information on Fox News we

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Speaker 6: have been able to gather so far, it is a

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Speaker 6: natural step forward that you would have to go to

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Speaker 6: an impeachment inquiry. And McCarthy then said, it provides Congress

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Speaker 6: the quote apex of legal power to get all the

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Speaker 6: information they need. So Ryan, this is the just asking

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Speaker 6: questions impeachment and.

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Speaker 4: It's a perfect metaphor for our politics. That Florida would

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Speaker 4: be underwater right now, and that the thing that Washington

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Speaker 4: would be talking about is and that Congress would be considering.

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Speaker 4: It's not like what are we going to do about that?

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Speaker 4: Like how are we going to build a sustainable country

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Speaker 4: going forward in this new climate environment? But it's like,

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Speaker 4: let's move forward with this theatrical impeachment that we know

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Speaker 4: is going to fail. And Democrats did the same thing,

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Speaker 4: and did it twice, maybe the second time they had

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Speaker 4: actually some modest hope that it might succeed, even though

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Speaker 4: the guy was out of office by the time the

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Speaker 4: impeachment inquiry was done, so there was you couldn't do

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Speaker 4: anything other than ha ha, we got you. But on

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Speaker 4: the first one, everybody knew there was no way there

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Speaker 4: were going to be two thirds to convict in the Senate.

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Speaker 4: We know right now there's ninety two thirds in the

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Speaker 4: Senate to convict Joe Biden. So Marjorie Taylor Green just

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Speaker 4: wants the kind of theater in order to kind of

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Speaker 4: show and to show the base that they're delivering. And

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Speaker 4: my take on all of this is that it's similar

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Speaker 4: to a government shutdown and that neither party is able

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Speaker 4: to kind of deliver what its base wants because of

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Speaker 4: the way that none of them have enough.

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Speaker 3: Votes at this point.

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Speaker 4: And so there are like basically two release valves at

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Speaker 4: this point for that energy. One is you shut the

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Speaker 4: government down, and you're like, look, see we tried, and

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Speaker 4: so that Republic they're probably gonna do that in a.

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Speaker 3: Few months, yep. And the other is, well, we impeached

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Speaker 3: the president, so aren't you happy.

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Speaker 6: Well, so that released actually might come sooner than a

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Speaker 6: few months. It might actually come within the next month.

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Speaker 6: And so again when you so when we're organizing the show,

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Speaker 6: we have like this is our A block, and so

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Speaker 6: you try to put the most important news in the

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Speaker 6: A block because that's the big thing to go through.

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Speaker 6: And actually, I think why this belongs at the top

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Speaker 6: of the show is because September, as we're heading into

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Speaker 6: Labor Day weekend here, September could feature a government shutdown

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Speaker 6: and the opening of an impeachment inquiry. And I'm really

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Speaker 6: glad you said, Ryan that Democrats with the Ukraine impeachment hearing,

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Speaker 6: especially the Ukraine impeachment hearing, and actually Kevin McCarthy himself

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Speaker 6: will cite that as a moment that like really made

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Speaker 6: the Republican conference as they call it on the House

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Speaker 6: side coalesce and people who were in the House and

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Speaker 6: went through the Ukraine impeachment inquiry, which, by the way,

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Speaker 6: I mean we can talk about, you know what Joe

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Speaker 6: Biden did with Victor Shoken, who's been out in the

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Speaker 6: media this week talking. He's the prosecutor who Joe Biden

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Speaker 6: used for an aid to get rid of in the

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Speaker 6: case of he was ostensibly corrupt, as many government officials

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Speaker 6: in Ukraine are, and we're but that's Joe Biden sort

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Speaker 6: of tethering foreign aid to a decision that the country

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Speaker 6: makes and a decision that a foreign country makes. And

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Speaker 6: that's essentially what Donald Trump was impeached over. So whether

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Speaker 6: that was at the level of an impeachment inquiry is

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Speaker 6: a serious question, and so too is what Republicans are

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Speaker 6: now going to the questions that they're just going to

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Speaker 6: be asking going forward to your point, Ryan, it's become

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Speaker 6: a release valve, not what it used to be. And

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Speaker 6: so Marjorie Taylor Green trotting at this thing. We're just

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Speaker 6: asking questions, We're just asking questions. It's very much because

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Speaker 6: if you're looking at an establishment Republican member like Kevin McCarthy,

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Speaker 6: I can't emphasize that enough. This is not a guy

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Speaker 6: from the Freedom Caucus. This is establishment Republican Kevin McCarthy,

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Speaker 6: who says he told me in an interview exactly a

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Speaker 6: year ago that that first impeachment completely changed the way

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Speaker 6: Republicans saw the game in the House of Representatives. It's

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Speaker 6: now fire with fire, and that's how they know that's what.

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Speaker 5: Their constituents want, all voters.

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Speaker 6: They know that's what the Republican base expects as a

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Speaker 6: bare minimum, and so they feel like they can't not

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Speaker 6: do it.

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Speaker 4: And what put Trump's behavior outside the norm of the

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Speaker 4: typical American president was that not that he was using

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Speaker 4: American foreign policy as leverage over another country, because that's.

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Speaker 3: What we do. We're going to talk about that later

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Speaker 3: in the show That's an Empire.

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Speaker 4: We talked about Pakistan recently, And so what made it difference?

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Speaker 3: It was for pure political gain.

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Speaker 4: No, it was like I need you to say that

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Speaker 4: you don't even need to do the investigation of Hunter

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Speaker 4: and Joe Biden, just like go on CNN and say

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Speaker 4: you're doing it.

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Speaker 3: That'll satisfy me.

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Speaker 6: And in Trumpan fashion, it was more transparent and naked.

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Speaker 3: Just completely naked.

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Speaker 5: It's self interested.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And because it cut against Ukraine, which was at

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Speaker 4: the time and remains kind of an ally slash client

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Speaker 4: in our kind of adversarial relationship with Russia, that's what

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Speaker 4: flipped it so that the rest of Washington was like, Okay,

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Speaker 4: impeach him over this, because the Left had been trying

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Speaker 4: to impeach Trump over.

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Speaker 3: Anything.

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Speaker 4: Muslim band, the massive amounts of like corruption running through

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Speaker 4: either you know, Saudi or the Trump Hotel or you

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Speaker 4: name it. But all of that stuff was too even

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Speaker 4: though he was doing it in a more flagrant way,

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Speaker 4: it was to cut too close to the bone of Washington,

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Speaker 4: too similar in kind to what a lot of other

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Speaker 4: politicians do, except they just do it in a more

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Speaker 4: sophisticated and and okay way, and so you weren't going

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Speaker 4: to have the Centrists along with you there. Then he

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Speaker 4: does the Ukraine thing, and if you remember, it was

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Speaker 4: the kind of former intelligence community people like Spanberger and

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Speaker 4: others who came out publicly and said, okay, now, now

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Speaker 4: he's crossed the line.

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Speaker 3: Now we're gonna Now we're gonna do this.

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Speaker 4: And at that point the left was like, well, we've

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Speaker 4: wanted to impeach him for all these other things.

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Speaker 3: We'll take this.

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Speaker 4: We're not gonna we're not gonna vote no on impeaching

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Speaker 4: Donald Trump. But of course you're not gonna get Republicans

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Speaker 4: to go along, even though a lot of Republicans hated

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Speaker 4: the idea that you would use our kind of client

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Speaker 4: in a way, in any way other than being adversarial

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Speaker 4: in our foreign policy towards like Russia or something like that.

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Speaker 6: And we could keep pulling at this thread and go

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Speaker 6: back to you know, whether Republicans and Newt Gingrich started

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Speaker 6: this in the nineties. We could keep talking, we could

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Speaker 6: talk about Whitewater, we could talk about we could just

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Speaker 6: keep going.

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Speaker 5: There's no question about it.

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Speaker 6: But the bottom line is Republicans have a very very

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Speaker 6: short time to fund the government in September. Not just Republicans,

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Speaker 6: actually all of Congress has a very small amount of

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Speaker 6: time to fund the fund the government in September. The

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Speaker 6: Freedom Caucus thinks a shutdown is and if you talk

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Speaker 6: to folks, that's the line they're they're pushing for a shutdown.

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Speaker 6: Kevin McCarthy wants what's called the Continuing Resolution to punt

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Speaker 6: that into December.

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Speaker 5: He's the Freedom Caucus is in.

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Speaker 6: All likelihood not going to let him get that continuing resolution,

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Speaker 6: meaning that you're trying to start an impeachment inquiry and

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Speaker 6: fund the government in September. People are in dire financial

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Speaker 6: straits around the country. We're seeing some really frightening indicators

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Speaker 6: that we've covered this month, certain things like credit card

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Speaker 6: delinquency spiking, and Congress is going to be tangled up

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Speaker 6: and likely in another impeachment fight and shutdown fight.

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Speaker 4: My guess is that they'll do as I'm curious for

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Speaker 4: your taking on this, that they'll do a short term

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Speaker 4: extension at the end of toward the end of September.

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Speaker 4: That'll push it into early December, and that around then

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Speaker 4: is when you'll get your shut down, because I think

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Speaker 4: it's I think it's really hard for if you have

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Speaker 4: half the Republican conference saying I'm fine with a short

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Speaker 4: term extension and you have the other half saying, though,

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Speaker 4: I want to shut down now, Like that's such a

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Speaker 4: loser argument that I think they'll just take it and

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Speaker 4: punt it to December. But what you have a much

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Speaker 4: better read on the House Republican So what's what's your guest.

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Speaker 5: I could see that happening.

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Speaker 6: I think it's the way I can see that happening

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Speaker 6: is if McCarthy negotiates with the Freedom Caucus on impeachment.

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Speaker 6: So maybe there's something that he can, you know, dangle

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Speaker 6: a carot that he can dangle impeachment wise that gets

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Speaker 6: him that continuing resolution or the short term extension to December.

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Speaker 6: But there, you know, when you talk those guys right now,

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00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:05,000
Speaker 6: they are hardcore no CR because that's not you know,

444
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:07,199
Speaker 6: where the bases. That's not what anybody wants to hear.

445
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:09,680
Speaker 6: It is well past time. If you if you listen

446
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:11,399
Speaker 6: to just Marjorie Taylor Green, you know you're in the

447
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:13,520
Speaker 6: freedom caucus, but a sort of freedom coca is adjacent.

448
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:14,919
Speaker 5: It is well past.

449
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,879
Speaker 6: Time to start this impeachment and Querer it should have

450
00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:19,440
Speaker 6: happened a lot of people think it should have happened

451
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,680
Speaker 6: earlier this year. So I don't think they're in any

452
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:25,240
Speaker 6: mood to keep pushing it. I don't think they're in

453
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:29,359
Speaker 6: any mood to push the potential shut down either. So

454
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:32,480
Speaker 6: I saw, like Mark Levin tweeting today, Reagan shut down

455
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:36,480
Speaker 6: the government some eight times, and you know it like

456
00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:40,040
Speaker 6: the least it's the least house Republicans could do now

457
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,560
Speaker 6: basically is where the bases. So I don't feel like

458
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:44,680
Speaker 6: they feel like they have much flexibility. I don't think

459
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:46,960
Speaker 6: they want to have much flexibility, so I would be surprised.

460
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:47,600
Speaker 5: But there are some.

461
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:50,240
Speaker 6: Carrots that McCarthy and he's a good negotiator with.

462
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:51,560
Speaker 5: Them, so we'll see.

463
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:54,720
Speaker 4: It is so pathetic. It's like, really, it's like the

464
00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:57,640
Speaker 4: least we can do is a great phrase for it. Yeah,

465
00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:01,520
Speaker 4: it's like because nobody is going to the bout box saying,

466
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:03,040
Speaker 4: you know, what I really want is for the Park

467
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:05,800
Speaker 4: Service to get shut down like that. That's why I'm

468
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:09,480
Speaker 4: setting you to Washington. But they go and they can't

469
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:11,479
Speaker 4: deliver on the things that they want to deliver on,

470
00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:13,720
Speaker 4: and so yeah, so they're like, all right, well, what

471
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:14,160
Speaker 4: can we.

472
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,920
Speaker 5: Do because basically it's impossibly get anything done.

473
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:19,920
Speaker 3: Especially yeah, yeah, right, that's the thing.

474
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:22,159
Speaker 4: They control the House of Representatives and they want to

475
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,040
Speaker 4: government from there, you can't, right, and they barely control

476
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:28,520
Speaker 4: the House of Representatives, that's right, real quick. My unpopular

477
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:32,280
Speaker 4: take Andrew Johnson worst president ever. Wish he had actually

478
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,480
Speaker 4: been impeached. But the thing that impeached him on was crazy.

479
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,919
Speaker 4: It was after he took over from Lincoln, they passed

480
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 4: the law saying you can't get rid of your cabinet

481
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 4: secretaries Lincoln's cabinet secretaries.

482
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 3: And then that's crazy.

483
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:47,240
Speaker 4: President's got to be able to hire there a cabinet

484
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 4: And so then he fired Stanton, and Stanton wouldn't leave

485
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:53,760
Speaker 4: the War Department. He's like, no, I'm not leaving, not leaving,

486
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:55,439
Speaker 4: like and people were like defending him.

487
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 3: It was wild.

488
00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:59,280
Speaker 4: And then I still wish he'd been impeached, even though

489
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:01,160
Speaker 4: I disagre read with the rationale for.

490
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:03,960
Speaker 3: They've just done it. They were just asking questions, just

491
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,640
Speaker 3: asking questions. Yeah, did you and he did break that law?

492
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:08,119
Speaker 3: But the law is kind of crazy.

493
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean many such cases.

494
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, all right, Well, speaking of Republicans in difficult situations,

495
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 6: here's Ron DeSantis has been I mean, a tragedy continues

496
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,880
Speaker 6: to strike Florida this week. There was this horrific, horrific

497
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 6: shooting in Florida earlier this week. We can put b

498
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 6: when b one up on the screen. This is from

499
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 6: the New York Times. I'm going to read from the

500
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:37,720
Speaker 6: article here. A white gunman wearing a tactical vest barged

501
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,440
Speaker 6: into a Dollar General store in Jacksonville, Florida, on Saturday

502
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 6: and fatally shot three black people in an attack that

503
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:47,440
Speaker 6: the authority said they were investigating as a hate crime. Now,

504
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 6: Ron de Santis has echoed that, he said he's he's

505
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 6: seen the details and that this is the manifesto and

506
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 6: this is clearly a racially motivated hate crime. So he's

507
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 6: on the same page as law enforcement in that question.

508
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,680
Speaker 6: The victim, Angela Michelle Carr, fifty two years old Anault

509
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 6: Joseph le Garry Junior known as AJ, twenty nine years old,

510
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:10,680
Speaker 6: and Gerald Deshaun Gallion nineteen years old, twenty one year

511
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 6: old gunman with an AR fifteen style rifle and a

512
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 6: glock handgun, as the New York Time says, both of

513
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:20,640
Speaker 6: which he purchased legally in Florida. So then Ron DeSantis,

514
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 6: obviously as governor of Florida, this falls under his purview

515
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 6: to handle the fallout. He did a press conference, and

516
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,399
Speaker 6: let's play some some audio and video from this. You

517
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 6: can see him getting booed after the press conference.

518
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:39,200
Speaker 9: Laura's Governor, Ron de Santis is here a w he

519
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 9: to come back and.

520
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 5: Thank you for given a.

521
00:24:58,119 --> 00:24:58,359
Speaker 1: Moment.

522
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 5: We've already been looking to identify.

523
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,879
Speaker 8: Funds to be able to have one avants.

524
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:22,639
Speaker 6: Security, I said after the press conference, but clearly that

525
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 6: was in the middle of the press conference. Definitely not

526
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 6: after the press conference. Now Republicans have looked at the

527
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 6: media coverage of this, and Ronda Santis is certainly going

528
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 6: to be dealing I think with that that situation going

529
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 6: forward in the aftermath of this hurricane that we covered

530
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 6: earlier in the show That's Heating Florida right now and

531
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 6: will continue to be a huge process for the communities

532
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 6: impacted in the days.

533
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,880
Speaker 5: I've had, the months ahead, the years ahead, but.

534
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 6: Republicans on media coverage of what happened there, and that's

535
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 6: become sort of a news cycle in and of its own.

536
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 6: This is Senator Mike Lee. We could put B three

537
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 6: up on this. This is he's responding to an AP

538
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 6: journalist who said something to the effect of, you know,

539
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 6: Ron de Santis had this created the climate of fear,

540
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,400
Speaker 6: and the n DOUBLEACP put out a travel advisory to Florida,

541
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,679
Speaker 6: and then you know, sometime later there's the shooting, the

542
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 6: racially motivated shooting of.

543
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:19,400
Speaker 5: Three black people.

544
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 6: So tying A and B together, Mike Lee jumps in

545
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 6: and says Scotis effectively immunized journalists from public figure defamation

546
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 6: liability in nineteen sixty four. Over time, that immunity, coupled

547
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,440
Speaker 6: with political leanings of most journalists, had turned the news

548
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 6: media into the communications assault arm of the Democratic Party.

549
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 5: Now I don't agree at all about it.

550
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 3: Does exhibit A.

551
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 5: I'll read it right here.

552
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 6: It's the tweet from it is from Steve Peoples, who

553
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 6: said rond dea Santis scoffed when the NAACP issued a

554
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,680
Speaker 6: travel advisory the spring warning black people to use quote

555
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,880
Speaker 6: extreme care if traveling to Florida. Just three months later,

556
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,479
Speaker 6: DeSantis is leading his state through the aftermath of a

557
00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 6: racist attack that left three African Americans dead. And I'll

558
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 6: put the next element up on the screen. This is

559
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 6: my colleague David Harsani writing at the Federalists and saying, essentially,

560
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 6: there's nothing in DeSantis's rhetoric that would be responsible for

561
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 6: motivating a racially motivated terror attack. And so the Republican

562
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 6: response and the conservative response has become a news cycle

563
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,159
Speaker 6: in and of its own, basically saying to point fingers

564
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:28,679
Speaker 6: at Ron DeSantis for you know, the ap curriculum that

565
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,640
Speaker 6: we talked about here on this show, for other things

566
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:36,959
Speaker 6: in Florida. Essentially that the left interprets one way and

567
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 6: to connect it to a shooting is basically a smear.

568
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 5: And that's what Mike Lee is arguing. I don't agree

569
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 5: at all.

570
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 6: And the question of liability for the media, that's a

571
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 6: much more popular, that's an.

572
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 5: Increasing and popularity.

573
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 6: I mean, yes, it's a very self interested, but for

574
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 6: legitimate reasons, I don't agree with that at all. Ryan

575
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 6: though this is going to be in the few Sure,

576
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 6: this is going to be a problem for Justsantis. We've

577
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,439
Speaker 6: seen him in ways that Florida voters appear to like

578
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 6: turn the tables when questions like this happen and say

579
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 6: this is awful what the media is doing. But at

580
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 6: the same time, he can't escape the scrutiny no matter what.

581
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 4: Happens, right, And so Michael is trying to blame the

582
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 4: NAACP for warning people that black lives are at risk

583
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 4: in Florida, and then three months later, three black people

584
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 4: are killed and he's by a racist guy to Dollar

585
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,880
Speaker 4: General and he's like he should be saying, well, NAACP

586
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 4: was kind of right about that, Right.

587
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 6: He's blaming the AP for regurgitating the NAACP's line sort

588
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 6: of credulously.

589
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 4: And then you've got remember when Rick Scott he did

590
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 4: that really creepy thing where he's like, it's socialist and

591
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 4: communists and everybody believes in big governments stay out of Florida,

592
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 4: warning you don't come down here like that rhetoric also

593
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 4: like come on, you can't have a socialist can't visit

594
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 4: Socialists can't visit Florida, Like what do you can't people

595
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 4: believe in big government ought not to be warned not

596
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 4: to go to Florida.

597
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 3: He's talking about.

598
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 2: So.

599
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 4: But on the Rhonda Santis press conference, I was watching that,

600
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 4: I'm thinking, you know, he has a responsibility as a governor.

601
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 3: Those are these are his constituents.

602
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 4: Like, he made a choice that he was going to

603
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 4: be as divisive as he possibly could and as partisan

604
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:27,479
Speaker 4: as he could, and that was going to be his

605
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 4: kind of leg up in the presidential primary, that he

606
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 4: was going to pick fights with Democrats, slash the media,

607
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 4: which he believes to be the same thing, and you know,

608
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:44,959
Speaker 4: fire elected prosecutors, you know in cities around Florida, and

609
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 4: you know, take take take over the curriculum, and on

610
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 4: and on. He had, he made that choice, and maybe

611
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 4: it has fifty four percent of the state behind him,

612
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 4: but that means you might have forty six percent of

613
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 4: the state vocally again, you even in a moment where.

614
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 3: Just several years ago everybody would come together.

615
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 7: Right.

616
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's I think that's an interesting contrast that And

617
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 6: actually we've seen this with hurricanes past that Ron DeSantis

618
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 6: has the way that he's approached tragedies like hurricanes under

619
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 6: his governorship has been pretty well approved.

620
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 5: It seems to.

621
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 6: Have like actually been efficient and a proper use of government,

622
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 6: a useful application of government. And he's actually again emerged

623
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 6: from a lot of those other tragedies, probably stronger politically

624
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 6: if anything. But yeah, we didn't used to see quite

625
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 6: this level of polarization. It used to be that these

626
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:43,719
Speaker 6: things were like unifying moments for various reasons. But his

627
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 6: approval rating this is as of July, a Florida Atlantic

628
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 6: University poll had him at fifty four percent of voters

629
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 6: approving of the way to Santis is handling his job.

630
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 6: Then a strong plurality forty one percent saying they strongly

631
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 6: approve forty one percent. But to your point, Ryan, that

632
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 6: means twenty four percent of voters strongly disapproved. That's a

633
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,959
Speaker 6: lot of strong disapproval, which means he's generally well liked

634
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 6: in the state of Florida, probably beyond just a partisan

635
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 6: Republicans when you have numbers like that, But at the

636
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 6: same time, that means the disagreement with Ron DeSantis is

637
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 6: also highly highly polarized, and I think as he continues

638
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 6: running for president, that's only going to get that's that

639
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 6: will only become ratcheted out.

640
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 5: That will only be stronger. The reaction to him and.

641
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 6: Probably some of his numbers as he sort of flails

642
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 6: on the national campaign trail will bring his numbers down

643
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 6: in Florida, I imagine, especially if you end up looking distracted.

644
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 6: You know, if you end up looking like you're treating

645
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 6: tragedies as campaigns for a president, which I as campaign

646
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 6: stops on your presidential bid, that's a pretty bad look too.

647
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 6: I haven't seen that so far, And I do want

648
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 6: to say I actually am in the camp where I

649
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 6: think tying DeSantis personally Ron DeSantis is rhetoric personally to

650
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 6: what happened, I think makes no sense. But I also

651
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 6: take the point that that you were making that, you know,

652
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 6: is it insane for a journalist to say this is

653
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 6: what the NAACP, a major organization, a major national, powerful organization,

654
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 6: was saying.

655
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I take that point.

656
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 3: Too, right. Yes, I agree with all that that Bronda

657
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 3: Santis is never born.

658
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 4: You may very well still have this shooting. Andrew Gillen

659
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 4: could be governor, right and you might still have this shooting.

660
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 4: At the same time, what Mike Lee ought to be

661
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 4: asking is why did the NAACP say that like, what

662
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 4: is it, What is it that has happened between the

663
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 4: NUAACP and the Republican Party, which used to be allies

664
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 4: that led them to a place where they were issuing

665
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 4: a travel warning to the state and so worked through

666
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 4: that rather than blaming the AP for reporting on it

667
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 4: and implying that like there's there would almost be some

668
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 4: defamation in reporting, like even if there was no nineteen

669
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 4: sixty four defamation protection, Mike Lee knows better, like you're

670
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 4: allowed to report what the NAACP says and does as

671
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 4: a reporter.

672
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 5: It wasn't.

673
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 6: It was definitely not the moment, the journalistic moment that

674
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 6: I would be like, maybe we should look at for

675
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 6: themation cases because they didn't eat like people's again.

676
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 3: Who's going to suit Florida?

677
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, right, People's didn't or DeSantis, I guess like People's

678
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 6: didn't make an explicit he didn't really have to. But

679
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 6: he also didn't make an explicit point of culpability to

680
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 6: He didn't say Ron DeSantis created the conditions that the

681
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 6: NAACP issued a travel advisor because Ryan DeSantis is a

682
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 6: racist and caused the shooting. And we actually do see

683
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 6: journalists kind of crossing that bridge sometimes. So of all

684
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 6: of the opportunities, I don't know that this would.

685
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 3: Be one of them.

686
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 4: So, speaking of extraordinarily polarizing events, there's been a series

687
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 4: of climate protests that we wanted to take a look at.

688
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 4: And first of all, nobody from burning Man is watching

689
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 4: the show. Maybe they'll watch it when they're done, although

690
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 4: actually maybe well from them, man, Yeah, maybe there's a

691
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 4: little some Wi Fi connection out there and they're they're

692
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 4: they're beaming, they're beaming it in and they're all sitting around.

693
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 4: You know, I did my honeymoon at Burning Many.

694
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 6: I didn't know that, but I'm so glad you broke

695
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 6: that to me on air because.

696
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 5: That is too perfect.

697
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 4: Did our honeymoon at burning Man back? This is two

698
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 4: thousand and seven, very very long time ago.

699
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 5: Hell of a time. The bush are burning Man, nothing

700
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 5: like it.

701
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 4: And so if we could so in order to get there,

702
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:28,400
Speaker 4: it's basically one or two roads, and it's hours outside

703
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,240
Speaker 4: of Reno, even which is in the absolute middle of nowhere,

704
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 4: and everybody is supposed to bring all of their own

705
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 4: things with them, you know, gas and water. But you know,

706
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 4: if you, let's say, I have to run your car

707
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,319
Speaker 4: for three or four hours in the highway or on

708
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 4: the on the kind of state parkway unexpectedly that might

709
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 4: cause some problems for you. And so there was a

710
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 4: climate protest that blocked traffic for miles and miles and

711
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:57,879
Speaker 4: miles in the Nevada Northern Nevada desert on the way

712
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 4: to burning Man. And so let we'll play how it ended,

713
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 4: but then we'll play a little bit.

714
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 3: Of what led up to it.

715
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 4: So here here's a clip of how this how this

716
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 4: ended in quite a brutal fashion.

717
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 3: Did anyone get that they say, get down.

718
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:43,319
Speaker 5: The crowd, want the.

719
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:45,240
Speaker 3: Crowd, down the crowd.

720
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 4: So that's a tribal policeman that the tribal police say

721
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 4: that his conduct is now under review.

722
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 3: This this was awesome.

723
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 4: Uh afterwards you see some blood on the face of

724
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 4: these these women, like he really roughed them up.

725
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 3: Uh, this was several hours, but not with the truck.

726
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 3: Not with the truck.

727
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 4: No, this is like they're he even does the like

728
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 4: stop resisting thing, uh with while they were absolutely clearly

729
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 4: not resisting at all.

730
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 6: So he's under investigation for after he ran through the barricades,

731
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:23,399
Speaker 6: his treatment of the protesters, which we didn't fully see there, but.

732
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:25,240
Speaker 3: Right and so so.

733
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:28,760
Speaker 4: So it's a fascinating dynamic that they're kind of blocking

734
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 4: people from getting to Burning Man. And so let's play

735
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,720
Speaker 4: a little bit of the discussion between the burners and

736
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 4: and these protesters.

737
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 3: We've got some of this clip here.

738
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 5: Are what are you guys are attacking?

739
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:46,240
Speaker 8: Let's caused the problem?

740
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 11: Attack the big attack, the big corporations, attack the government.

741
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 11: No attack us.

742
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 8: We're all We're all.

743
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:54,800
Speaker 5: The same boat here, guys.

744
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 8: This is this is the most liberal group of people.

745
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 12: The better.

746
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 11: That's better liberal policies. Biden is really more oil than

747
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 11: any president since Bush like. Come on, so liberalism is

748
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 11: not the answer either. We need to change the system.

749
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 11: We need burners to rise up. You're intelligent, you're a

750
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 11: conscious human being. You're awakened.

751
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 10: We have it.

752
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:22,720
Speaker 11: Here's a flyer.

753
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 8: I didn't say.

754
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,320
Speaker 11: Anything about ready system change.

755
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 5: We need a man.

756
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 11: Ain't burning Man. Three principles, Rise, honesty, Advocate for change.

757
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,959
Speaker 11: If we can make a full city of one hundred

758
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 11: thousand people in the desert with zero resources on a

759
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 11: dry lake bed, we can actually change some polity people

760
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 11: need to make.

761
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,880
Speaker 4: So there's a good video of that with things like

762
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 4: twenty five minutes long and just a lot of these

763
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 4: different arguments going on, and so you did get a

764
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 4: chance to hear the protester articulate the theory here that

765
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 4: they're gonna Actually I'm not sure what the theory was.

766
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 4: What they what's the goal? What's the goal there?

767
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 6: Well, I mean, she's not wrong from the perspective of

768
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:11,759
Speaker 6: somebody who has that, and I think you show that

769
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 6: perspective on climate change that the left is in some

770
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 6: ways as culpable as the right. Again from that perspective

771
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 6: for perpetuating the system, because you can do sort of

772
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 6: band aids here and there, Inflation Reduction Act, which is

773
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:30,720
Speaker 6: sort of was an environmental policy in many many ways,

774
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 6: but that's sort of your band aid that's not going

775
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 6: to fully change the entire system that Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, etcetera.

776
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 6: Are part and parcel of. So I guess I understand

777
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 6: it from that perspective.

778
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:46,360
Speaker 4: On the other hand, Oh yeah, the analysis is dead on, right, yeah, yeah, right,

779
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 4: but the prescription what like?

780
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 3: And also I liked one of their demands.

781
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,800
Speaker 4: We didn't show it there, but across the street it

782
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 4: said ban private planes, which is which is a wonderful

783
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 4: message for these burners here now obvious. See those people

784
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 4: don't have private plans because they're rolling in there on cameras,

785
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 4: although maybe they flew into reno of them right and

786
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 4: then and then drove from there. But the wealth at

787
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:13,919
Speaker 4: burning Man is just obscene. It's it's Silicon Valley. It's

788
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 4: the richest people from northern California who have you know,

789
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 4: liberal to libertarian values. You know, tons of libertarians out there,

790
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:25,799
Speaker 4: so it's not just liberals. Uh, but yeah, so banned

791
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 4: private jets. That's cool, I'll go with that. But how

792
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 4: are you going to ban private jets by blocking like

793
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:34,240
Speaker 4: you know, it's like what what by by making everyone

794
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 4: there hate you so much that they're supporting the police

795
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 4: right barreling through you and almost killing you.

796
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 3: Like, if you've lost people to the point where they're like.

797
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 4: Willing to overlook that, then how are you kind of

798
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 4: organizing a coalition that's going to have enough power to

799
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:56,319
Speaker 4: implement the prescriptions that you your analysis rightly says we need.

800
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's really visceral for people who are you saw

801
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,880
Speaker 6: in those videos just incredible line of traffic backed up to.

802
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 4: The running out of gas and it's one hundred degrees right,

803
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:06,400
Speaker 4: you made that there's no gas station for hours.

804
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 6: You made that point but before we started taping the

805
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 6: show that it's actually really dangerous when you're out in

806
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 6: the middle of desert and you're the desert and you're

807
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 6: idling potentially for hours. If the climate protesters get their way,

808
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 6: you run out of gas. How are you supposed to

809
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 6: deal with that situation? Obviously there were a lot of

810
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 6: people backed up, and I'm sure people would be helping

811
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 6: each other out in the true spirit of burning man.

812
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 4: But radical self reliance, though, is the true spirit of

813
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:32,439
Speaker 4: burning man? Was like, Hey, radically self rely on yourself man, Yeah,

814
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 4: and I'm going to burn on.

815
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:36,879
Speaker 6: The other end, you know that. I want to play

816
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 6: the video here from Washington, d C. Actually not too

817
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,759
Speaker 6: far from where we were. That came in over the

818
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 6: weekend because climate protests are obviously there's been a lot

819
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:48,839
Speaker 6: here recently, and you know, don't have we don't need

820
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 6: to have sympathy for like the politicians and lobbyists here

821
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 6: in DC. But you'll see in this video that's not

822
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 6: really who's bearing the brunt of the problem.

823
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 3: We could just roll it here because we can talk

824
00:40:57,960 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 3: over it.

825
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 6: Yeah, take a look yeah, you see here, all white

826
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:03,360
Speaker 6: and like older.

827
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, look like retirees.

828
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:10,399
Speaker 6: Climate protesters blocking a really busy strip of road here

829
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 6: in northeast.

830
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:14,400
Speaker 3: DC and far from the power center.

831
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 6: Right, multi racial, ostensibly sort of middle class people trying

832
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 6: to get to work. And when you're listening to the audio,

833
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 6: you can find the video online. It's just people saying

834
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:25,720
Speaker 6: over and over again, which we have seen for years

835
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,840
Speaker 6: as these traffic blocking protests have transpired, people saying I

836
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 6: need to get to work please, like I need to

837
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 6: make my shift and need to punch in, I need.

838
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 5: To pick up my kid.

839
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 6: And I think the real problem even for people who

840
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 6: are on the same page, which you hear in the

841
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 6: DC clip.

842
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 5: One woman saying we all know the world is melting.

843
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:48,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, that woman that we just saw there, that was

844
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 4: her point. She's like, look, you think we don't know

845
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 4: the world's melting. Yeah, like we know that.

846
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,799
Speaker 6: It's even people that are on the same page who

847
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 6: are saying like, like, we get it, but we also

848
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:00,799
Speaker 6: need to get to work. And it's this lack of

849
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 6: empathy I think with the material concerns of everyday Americans

850
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 6: that comes up when.

851
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:07,320
Speaker 5: You have retired.

852
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 6: Yea all white retired climate protesters, or even people who are.

853
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:14,160
Speaker 5: Just you know, blocking your ability to have a normal day.

854
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:18,880
Speaker 6: That is just so deeply visceral for people saying like, listen,

855
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 6: we are we get it, but I got kids to feed.

856
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 4: But I also, I mean I get the impulse, I

857
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 4: get the fear, the anxiety, the desire to just do something.

858
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 4: When you look at what's going on in Florida right now,

859
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:37,840
Speaker 4: when you understand the threat to a sustainable planet, certainly

860
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 4: at this population level, uh and you and you look

861
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 4: at the minimal amount of progress that's been made. I

862
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 4: can I can see where where they would say, you

863
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:54,799
Speaker 4: know what, just throw it all out, but it but

864
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:58,920
Speaker 4: that's all that is is personal satisfaction at that point.

865
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:00,959
Speaker 4: All that all that is is kind of making you

866
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 4: feel a little bit better about what you did in

867
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 4: this crisis without any connection between your analysis and your

868
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:15,360
Speaker 4: action actually doing something. And so if you think deeper

869
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 4: about it, you don't actually get to credit yourself for

870
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 4: doing everything you could if what you did didn't actually

871
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 4: help like good like.

872
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:24,839
Speaker 5: And they was counterproductive.

873
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 3: Right.

874
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 4: The left has a new phrase over the last several years,

875
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:30,320
Speaker 4: which is intentions don't matter.

876
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 3: Impact matters, Actions matter.

877
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 4: And so when people are apologizing for, you know, whatever

878
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 4: they're apologizing for, people have now absorbed that, and so

879
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 4: they don't say anymore what their intentions were.

880
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:43,439
Speaker 3: When they did something.

881
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:46,400
Speaker 4: They just acknowledge the impact that their words or their

882
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:50,400
Speaker 4: actions had on people that they harmed, and they pledged

883
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:54,840
Speaker 4: to educate themselves and do better. So if intent doesn't matter,

884
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 4: like if you believe that and you're not just saying

885
00:43:57,160 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 4: it to get out of whatever trouble you're in, then

886
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:04,360
Speaker 4: you have to connect your action yeah, to actual impact.

887
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:06,880
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and if you're.

888
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:10,560
Speaker 4: If you're not making progress, if you're actually making things worse,

889
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 4: then your intent doesn't matter. And so we have if

890
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,319
Speaker 4: you want to put up C five one another one

891
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 4: of his incidents in Canada, which I think we've seen

892
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 4: a bunch of these in the UK. That is, I

893
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 4: think it is just going to lead to draconian penalties

894
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:26,839
Speaker 4: for people who do this kind of thing.

895
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 6: Also in Canada, protesters splash paint on a Tom Thompson

896
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 6: piece at the National Gallery this week. Again we are

897
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 6: seeing an increase in this, uh, this this type of

898
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 6: activism that feels it's really intentionally obstructionist. And I don't

899
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:43,360
Speaker 6: use that phrase pejoratively. I know it's really charged, but

900
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 6: I don't use it pejoratively because on the left they

901
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 6: would say, yes, it is obstructionist. That is the entire

902
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,880
Speaker 6: point of you know what David Serota and Adam McKay

903
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 6: were making, don't look up. It has to be obstructionists

904
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 6: because we need to radically rethink the way that we're

905
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 6: our relationship with the planet. At the same time, an

906
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:01,800
Speaker 6: interesting thing from Canada is the protesters say that paint

907
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:05,320
Speaker 6: was washable and that there's no damage to the painting.

908
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 4: There's also a lot of paintings are covered. A lot

909
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 4: of these masterpieces have a little covering, which this one did.

910
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 6: Right, and so it's an inverse I think. Also the

911
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:14,880
Speaker 6: traffic protest, I still don't think people want to see it.

912
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 6: I mean, they think it's you know, silly. But when

913
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:21,839
Speaker 6: you're attacking art, that's like sort of high culture as

914
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,759
Speaker 6: opposed to blocking traffic, it's a very different thing. So

915
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 6: I think climate protesters are trying to reckon with us themselves,

916
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 6: you know.

917
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 4: I think this goes back to a kind of naivete

918
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:32,839
Speaker 4: and a delusion that we have that all of us

919
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:36,720
Speaker 4: across the political spectrum have and the dudes on Chopo

920
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 4: Traphouse have talked about this that like on the right,

921
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 4: this like idea that there's all these conspiracies to kind

922
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 4: of produce new events so that we forget about the

923
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 4: events before, and that all of these things are psyops,

924
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:54,359
Speaker 4: this whole you know, psyop analysis of the world. What

925
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 4: that assumes is that if people only had the right

926
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:03,720
Speaker 4: in in front of them, then people would be able

927
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 4: to act. And so what it does is it explains

928
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 4: our failure to act as well. People don't understand what's

929
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:15,600
Speaker 4: happening because there's all these psyops. But that's not true.

930
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,880
Speaker 4: We know what's going on, We have the knowledge. We

931
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:21,480
Speaker 4: just don't have the power to do anything about it.

932
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 4: And I think that is so kind of humiliating and

933
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:30,480
Speaker 4: so difficult to just process as a human being's pessimistic

934
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:35,280
Speaker 4: that you're just a powerless adam in this getting pushed

935
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:39,480
Speaker 4: around by these structures. That we then tell stories that

936
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 4: if only people knew, then we'd be able to change something.

937
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 4: So and so the corollary there is if we just

938
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 4: splash enough paint on these paintings and get it into

939
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 4: the news that there's a climate catastrophe, coming. If we

940
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 4: block people on their way to work in DC, if

941
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:55,799
Speaker 4: we block people on the way to burning Man, then

942
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:58,759
Speaker 4: that will wake people up. They will know that there's

943
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 4: a climate catastrophe, and then they will use that knowledge

944
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 4: and they will they will take power and they will

945
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 4: do something about it. But what's broken is that the

946
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:13,480
Speaker 4: structures make it impossible for a population to express its

947
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 4: will because we are locked out of the government, we're

948
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:23,239
Speaker 4: locked out of decision making authority. So we can raise

949
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 4: as much awareness as we want.

950
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:25,880
Speaker 3: That's not the problem.

951
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:28,879
Speaker 4: The problem is we don't have power, can't rain Nobody

952
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:30,359
Speaker 4: wants to admit that we don't have power.

953
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, and you can't rain in the corporate powers, you

954
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 6: can't reign in the government powers collusion with the corporate

955
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 6: powers for those reasons, and it actually reminds me, and

956
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:42,279
Speaker 6: this is an extreme connection what we're talking about in

957
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:45,040
Speaker 6: the last block, where Republican voters are demanding the release

958
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:47,719
Speaker 6: valve of a government shutdown and an impeachment inquiry, and

959
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:49,880
Speaker 6: again that's because they feel helpless against the system. They

960
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 6: feel like the system needs a radical check in the

961
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 6: form of both of those things, which will ultimately, you know,

962
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:59,319
Speaker 6: be not measures that radically change the system. Right, there

963
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:02,720
Speaker 6: are measures that will make radical demands of the system,

964
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:05,719
Speaker 6: that will make radical condemnations of the system, but will

965
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:08,879
Speaker 6: not ultimately change the system. It's more of a sort

966
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:12,920
Speaker 6: of esthetic and it's, you know, in substance, it's a rebuttal.

967
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:15,720
Speaker 6: It's the fire with fire, But you can really understand

968
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:18,280
Speaker 6: why people are demanding fire with fire. And I think again,

969
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:21,360
Speaker 6: extreme connection. I know, but fire with fire is blocking

970
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 6: the roads. It's a similar thing. And I'm not saying

971
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 6: that it's exact one to one, but I do think

972
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 6: there's a powerlessness that people feel, especially in a world

973
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 6: that has been shrunk over the last one hundred years

974
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 6: because of technology, and that what happens in China and

975
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 6: India is now dramatically affecting the lives of people in

976
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 6: Kansas or in Canada. We don't have control really over

977
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 6: what China and India does. We can try, and we

978
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 6: don't feel like we even have control over our own government,

979
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:50,279
Speaker 6: let alone the governments in.

980
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:52,439
Speaker 5: China and India. And because of the way the world

981
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 5: has shrunk.

982
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 3: It all matters.

983
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:58,920
Speaker 4: But it's point in it's such a sad way that

984
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 4: even in the sense of the depth of that powerlessness

985
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 4: of those people on the street feel They still feel

986
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:07,799
Speaker 4: like if they just raise a little bit more awareness,

987
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:12,880
Speaker 4: then we're going to solve this. Yeah, I agree, Big

988
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:16,160
Speaker 4: if true news out of Joe Biden who says that

989
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 4: as a twenty one year old he convinced strom Thurman

990
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:22,400
Speaker 4: to support the Civil Rights Act. If we can put

991
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:24,360
Speaker 4: up the quote from Biden here, he says, I was

992
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 4: able to literally, not figuratively, talk strom Thurman into voting

993
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:32,920
Speaker 4: for the Civil Rights Act before he before he died,

994
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 4: and I thought, well, maybe there's real progress.

995
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 3: But hate never dies. It just hides, it hides under

996
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:40,320
Speaker 3: the rocks.

997
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:45,320
Speaker 4: This is the latest in Joe Biden's long, long history

998
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:49,880
Speaker 4: of just completely fabricating nonsense about his role in the

999
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:50,800
Speaker 4: civil rights movement.

1000
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:52,760
Speaker 3: It goes back.

1001
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:55,280
Speaker 4: This is probably the most This is the second most

1002
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 4: absurd of all of them. And we'll get to the

1003
00:49:57,080 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 4: most absurd in a minute. He actually got in a

1004
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:02,920
Speaker 4: lot of political trouble back in the nineteen eighties for

1005
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:06,360
Speaker 4: claiming that he was he marched, you know, and was

1006
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 4: involved in the civil rights movement, and pressed on it.

1007
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 4: It turned out that he went to I think like

1008
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 4: one luncheon thing after a church event or something, and

1009
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:19,319
Speaker 4: that was and he had kind of then embellished that

1010
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 4: into like serious involvement in the civil rights movement. His

1011
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 4: most absurd one was he basically said he broke into

1012
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:28,840
Speaker 4: prison to see Nelson Mandela.

1013
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:30,120
Speaker 3: Remember this one.

1014
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:32,759
Speaker 4: This was during the campaign, and this this was during

1015
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:34,759
Speaker 4: the twenty twenty presidential campaign, and.

1016
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 6: Before you really start to see like obvious cognitive decline

1017
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:40,720
Speaker 6: in him. So it's not just an old Joe Biden.

1018
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:43,959
Speaker 4: For Joe, he's a liar, Like, yeah, he's he tells lies.

1019
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:46,520
Speaker 4: He also has I think lies to himself.

1020
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:49,760
Speaker 5: That's probably true. This is even more sad.

1021
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:50,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe, yeah.

1022
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:53,839
Speaker 4: And so the White House was pressed for some clarification

1023
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:58,279
Speaker 4: on this. What do you mean that he literally, not figuratively,

1024
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:01,120
Speaker 4: talked strong thrmin of aving for the Civil Rights Act?

1025
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:05,160
Speaker 4: And they said, what he actually meant, because it's physically impossible.

1026
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:07,439
Speaker 5: He was twenty one not in the Senate.

1027
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:08,920
Speaker 3: And also Strom Thurmon voted against it.

1028
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:12,360
Speaker 4: Yes, Strom, so they literally voted against it, not figuratively.

1029
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:14,840
Speaker 6: Think of all the layers here, Strom Sermon did not

1030
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 6: vote for the Civil Rights Act, Joe Biden did not

1031
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 6: talk him into it, and Joe Biden was twenty one

1032
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 6: years old, not anywhere.

1033
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 5: Near the Senate.

1034
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:22,520
Speaker 3: Now, let's let's let's be generous.

1035
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:25,720
Speaker 4: What he was thinking about, according to the White House,

1036
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 4: is that strom Thurmon ended up voting for the nineteen

1037
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:34,759
Speaker 4: eighty reauthorization of the Voting Rights Act. Which let's sit

1038
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 4: with that for a minute. That is that is something,

1039
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:43,160
Speaker 4: and it also shows how far our politics has come

1040
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 4: in a way that you know, MLK said, arch of

1041
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 4: history is long, it bends towards justice. It's been more

1042
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 4: of a pendulum than a bent arc, in the sense

1043
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:57,040
Speaker 4: that by the nineteen eighties, you did have kind of

1044
00:51:57,120 --> 00:52:01,720
Speaker 4: unanimous support almost for the Voting Rights Act in Congress.

1045
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 4: In two thousand and six, I believe it was maybe

1046
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:08,400
Speaker 4: even more recently than that, there was a Voting Rights

1047
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 4: Reauthorization Act that passed ninety eight to zero in the House,

1048
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:16,800
Speaker 4: in the Senate and overwhelmingly in the House of Representatives,

1049
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:20,399
Speaker 4: and then just a few years later John Roberts gutted it,

1050
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 4: saying that Congress's intent on this passing it in nineteen

1051
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:28,840
Speaker 4: sixty five had been basically been fulfilled, completely ignoring that

1052
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:31,840
Speaker 4: it had just been reauthorized in a bipartisan vote and

1053
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:34,239
Speaker 4: signed by a Republican president, George W.

1054
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:34,840
Speaker 3: Bush.

1055
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:37,160
Speaker 4: And so the fact that strom Thurman was among that

1056
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:40,799
Speaker 4: pendulum swing that direction then only to see it swing back,

1057
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:45,239
Speaker 4: I think is a fascinating commentary. But let's talk for

1058
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:48,359
Speaker 4: a second just about Joe Biden. Strom Thurmon the other

1059
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 4: thing that he might have been thinking of. And we

1060
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:52,720
Speaker 4: put up this second story here. This is from history,

1061
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:56,279
Speaker 4: and David Stein, we published this in the intercept, helped

1062
00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:59,239
Speaker 4: that at this piece as a great piece of journalism

1063
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:05,239
Speaker 4: from September twenty nineteen during the campaign. The story that

1064
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:10,359
Speaker 4: Stein on Earth's is that in the nineteen seventies, Joe

1065
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:14,399
Speaker 4: Biden was far to the right of Ronald Reagan when

1066
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:17,239
Speaker 4: it came to the crime and to the drug war,

1067
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:22,840
Speaker 4: and relentlessly pushed Jimmy Carter to get tougher and tougher

1068
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:26,920
Speaker 4: on crime and kept insisting to the Democratic leadership, give

1069
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:29,080
Speaker 4: me This was called give me the crime issue, and

1070
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:31,160
Speaker 4: you'll never have to hear about it again because he's

1071
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:35,320
Speaker 4: going to be so tough on crime. After Reagan was elected,

1072
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:39,360
Speaker 4: strom Thurman takes over the chairmanship of the Judiciary Committee

1073
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:43,160
Speaker 4: and Biden becomes the ranking member, and he goes to

1074
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:45,360
Speaker 4: strom Thurman and he says, look, we can do a

1075
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:48,400
Speaker 4: crime build together. You and I can get tough on crime.

1076
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:51,319
Speaker 4: He said, and this is his telling of it. If

1077
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 4: you get your right wing guys, and I love the

1078
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:56,160
Speaker 4: idea that strom Thurman is not a right wing guy,

1079
00:53:56,640 --> 00:53:58,799
Speaker 4: you get your right wing guys not to kill it.

1080
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:01,920
Speaker 4: I'll get my left people not to kill it, and

1081
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:05,120
Speaker 4: Collective will do a tough on crime bill.

1082
00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:07,320
Speaker 3: And Reagan had no interest.

1083
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:11,360
Speaker 4: Initially, the entire nineteen eighty campaign was about unemployment, it

1084
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:14,240
Speaker 4: was about inflation, it was about malaise, it was about

1085
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:15,480
Speaker 4: around hostages.

1086
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:18,680
Speaker 3: We kind of retcon it to be about.

1087
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:21,799
Speaker 4: The war on drugs and the crime wave, but it

1088
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 4: wasn't like that wasn't just the reality of it.

1089
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:26,280
Speaker 3: What that wasn't what the nineteen eighty campaign was about.

1090
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:28,879
Speaker 4: And Biden just kept pushing and pushing and pushing, saying,

1091
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 4: we need to make this the centerpiece of our agenda.

1092
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:36,560
Speaker 4: Reagan vetoed it one of his big tough on crime

1093
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:39,240
Speaker 4: bills because Reagan didn't want to spend the money.

1094
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:41,680
Speaker 3: He was still a he had.

1095
00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 4: There was that pull between the small sea conservatism and

1096
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:48,320
Speaker 4: the and the and the push against a strong federal

1097
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:52,400
Speaker 4: government and the desire to be the tough on crime party,

1098
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:54,719
Speaker 4: and whereas Biden didn't have that. Biden was fine with

1099
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:57,080
Speaker 4: big government and he wanted to be tough on crime.

1100
00:54:57,160 --> 00:55:01,400
Speaker 4: And so his alliance with strom Thurman is really what

1101
00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 4: then enables him to put together the coalition that eventually

1102
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:10,840
Speaker 4: becomes the War on Crime, and you know, ending with

1103
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:13,239
Speaker 4: his not ending with his nineteen ninety four crime Bill,

1104
00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:16,080
Speaker 4: because he continued to do the Rave Act and other

1105
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:18,320
Speaker 4: kind of quote unquote tough on crime.

1106
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:19,719
Speaker 3: Legislation after that.

1107
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:23,680
Speaker 4: So that's the actual thing that he talked strom Thurmon

1108
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:26,160
Speaker 4: into doing. And maybe he did actually talk him into

1109
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:28,320
Speaker 4: voting for the Voting Rights Act in nineteen eighty I

1110
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:29,120
Speaker 4: don't know, maybe he did.

1111
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:33,160
Speaker 6: I mean, yeah, who knows at this point. But at

1112
00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 6: the same time, I mean, this is part of a

1113
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:39,960
Speaker 6: pattern with Biden, who also he had some interesting words

1114
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:43,840
Speaker 6: about his work with George Wallace. He's had interesting words

1115
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:46,400
Speaker 6: for Robert Bird. In fact, he called Robert Byrd a

1116
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:51,560
Speaker 6: quote mentor, guide and friend. Robert Bird was a leader

1117
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:52,960
Speaker 6: in the KKK.

1118
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:55,240
Speaker 3: He was, but Bird was one of those.

1119
00:55:56,920 --> 00:56:00,480
Speaker 4: He renounced that past and like, yes, so if we're

1120
00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:01,880
Speaker 4: you know, we're going to allow for that.

1121
00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:02,960
Speaker 3: I think we got to allow for that.

1122
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:05,560
Speaker 6: I think I think we absolutely have to allow for that.

1123
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 6: I also think it's a pattern with Joe Biden.

1124
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:11,480
Speaker 3: And Harry Bird. Was you renounced it less, But.

1125
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:15,760
Speaker 6: It's interesting with Joe Biden. And because we're the reason

1126
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:18,480
Speaker 6: that made me think of Bird is that we're also

1127
00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:20,799
Speaker 6: doing a segment in the show about how Biden gets

1128
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 6: a surprising win against Pharma, And it's just this pattern

1129
00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:28,839
Speaker 6: in Biden of that I actually think the left really

1130
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:31,560
Speaker 6: needs to reckon with in that he is a political

1131
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:35,719
Speaker 6: chameleon and he's willing to say whatever it takes, whether

1132
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:37,600
Speaker 6: or not it's true, and he's gotten away with it.

1133
00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:40,200
Speaker 6: He's actually like done that to the presidency, which is,

1134
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:43,640
Speaker 6: you know, he had to drop out of a presidential

1135
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:46,399
Speaker 6: race at one point because he was he was caught

1136
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:48,520
Speaker 6: plagiarizing essentially in the campaign.

1137
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:50,600
Speaker 5: It's dogged his entire career.

1138
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:53,080
Speaker 4: And this speech said that you know, for thousands of

1139
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:55,160
Speaker 4: years my family has been living here. It's like, what

1140
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:56,960
Speaker 4: do you mean thousands of years? And they realized it

1141
00:56:57,000 --> 00:56:58,879
Speaker 4: was a Scottish politician that he'd ripped off.

1142
00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:02,279
Speaker 6: Yeah again, like it wasn't first of all, it wasn't true,

1143
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:03,439
Speaker 6: and secondly it wasn't even him.

1144
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:08,359
Speaker 5: It is amazing. But at the same time he has

1145
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:09,319
Speaker 5: had all.

1146
00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:11,040
Speaker 3: Right stuffhard him too when he got busted for that.

1147
00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:13,200
Speaker 6: Right it did, and but he at the same time

1148
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:14,239
Speaker 6: he continues to.

1149
00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:18,640
Speaker 5: Just do enough to get things done.

1150
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:21,800
Speaker 6: He's not like radically reforming anything, but he does just

1151
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:24,120
Speaker 6: enough to get things done, to the point where the

1152
00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:26,000
Speaker 6: arc of his career is such that in twenty twenty

1153
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:29,680
Speaker 6: three or in twenty twenty the rest of the Democratic

1154
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:32,240
Speaker 6: Party feels the rest of the candidates are talking about

1155
00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:35,120
Speaker 6: things like Medicare for all that makes voters uncomfortable, and

1156
00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:38,320
Speaker 6: Joe Biden has he's just a step, you know, beyond

1157
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:40,920
Speaker 6: that he says no Medicare for all and gets elected

1158
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:42,000
Speaker 6: as in the United States.

1159
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:43,760
Speaker 5: It just he's had a very telling arc.

1160
00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:46,840
Speaker 4: I think he has a fine tuned antenna. He's a

1161
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:50,640
Speaker 4: very good politician in his ability to find the kind

1162
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:55,520
Speaker 4: of political center. And he doesn't care. He's amoral about it. Yeah,

1163
00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:57,320
Speaker 4: he doesn't have any value. He's just going to.

1164
00:57:57,360 --> 00:57:57,760
Speaker 3: Go where it is.

1165
00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 4: And I think part of it comes from coming from Delaware.

1166
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:05,040
Speaker 4: Delaware as several things that make it kind of I

1167
00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:08,200
Speaker 4: think a good breeding ground for a good politician. One

1168
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:11,240
Speaker 4: is that it's so wildly corporate dominated that it you know,

1169
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:15,440
Speaker 4: you know, he understands corporate power and so as a

1170
00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:18,880
Speaker 4: very strong sense of where where that power lies. But

1171
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:20,760
Speaker 4: also in such a small state, you know, he and

1172
00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:24,760
Speaker 4: people like Tom Carper know everybody in that state.

1173
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:27,800
Speaker 3: Like this was like they know by first name.

1174
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:31,040
Speaker 4: Like when I've reported from that state, people are like, oh, yeah,

1175
00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:33,200
Speaker 4: I had dinner with Tom Carper, I had dinner with

1176
00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:33,880
Speaker 4: Joe Biden.

1177
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:34,960
Speaker 3: Just regular people on the street.

1178
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:38,439
Speaker 4: And also it's a microcosm in the sense that there's

1179
00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:41,680
Speaker 4: rural white working class areas, there's rural black working class areas.

1180
00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:43,560
Speaker 3: There there's there's.

1181
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:47,760
Speaker 4: Wilmington, there's the Wilmington suburbs, and so you have kind

1182
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:50,840
Speaker 4: of every different political dynamic. And so he is able

1183
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:54,960
Speaker 4: to go into these towns, have authentic conversations across the

1184
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:59,040
Speaker 4: spectrum with people wrote racial and political, and then regurgitate

1185
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:02,320
Speaker 4: those just you know, churn him back out to a

1186
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:03,280
Speaker 4: national population.

1187
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:04,040
Speaker 12: Uh.

1188
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:07,520
Speaker 4: And so that that enables him to find the center

1189
00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:10,840
Speaker 4: at all at all times, and it helps him. It

1190
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:13,880
Speaker 4: helps him like fend off the charges from Republicans that

1191
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:16,240
Speaker 4: he's some radical socialists, and it's one of those frustrating

1192
00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:18,560
Speaker 4: things for Republicans, like, look, he's doing all these things

1193
00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:22,000
Speaker 4: that are pretty progressive, and people just keep assuming that

1194
00:59:22,040 --> 00:59:25,880
Speaker 4: he's a centrist kind of reasonable guy because it just

1195
00:59:25,960 --> 00:59:27,200
Speaker 4: looks like one, right, And.

1196
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:29,320
Speaker 6: He's always willing to talk to other people, you know,

1197
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:33,240
Speaker 6: clearly like exactly I was going to say, like being George.

1198
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:34,800
Speaker 5: Wallace or strom Thurman.

1199
00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:38,320
Speaker 6: He's he has those conversations, which is something that a

1200
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:40,080
Speaker 6: lot of people on the left take issue with and say,

1201
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:42,760
Speaker 6: we're not Essentially it's like we don't negotiate with terrorist line,

1202
00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:47,240
Speaker 6: which you can see some of that argument. And at

1203
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:49,600
Speaker 6: the same time, if he talks strom Thurman and the

1204
00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:52,360
Speaker 6: voting for the pouting right sect of nineteen eighty.

1205
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:55,560
Speaker 4: Which who knows whether that's true his funeral that he

1206
00:59:55,600 --> 00:59:56,440
Speaker 4: spoke at, right.

1207
00:59:57,120 --> 00:59:59,480
Speaker 5: I think it was birds, I think, but maybe he

1208
00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:00,919
Speaker 5: did both. You might have done both.

1209
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:06,280
Speaker 6: That would't surprise me at all. Actually, ran this is

1210
01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:10,280
Speaker 6: let's go back to the Nixon era for our next subject,

1211
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:13,640
Speaker 6: because this is this is actually new information that we're

1212
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:20,160
Speaker 6: receiving declassified CIA presidential daily briefings that were recently declassified.

1213
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:22,760
Speaker 6: We've learned and just in the last month more about

1214
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:27,320
Speaker 6: the coup that overthrew a en Day in Chile. And Ryan,

1215
01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:29,560
Speaker 6: you have a lot more information to share on this

1216
01:00:29,680 --> 01:00:30,440
Speaker 6: just fascinating stuff.

1217
01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:33,439
Speaker 3: Is Joe Biden's freshman year right in nineteen seventy three.

1218
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:40,320
Speaker 4: So the so recently, a group of Hispanic members of

1219
01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:44,880
Speaker 4: left wing, Hispanic members of Congress Greg gasar O, Kazi Cortes,

1220
01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:50,160
Speaker 4: niave Alasquez left to center left, Maxwell Frost did a

1221
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:54,480
Speaker 4: trip to South America, met with a bunch of you know,

1222
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:59,640
Speaker 4: governments and also dissidents to you know, try to build

1223
01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:03,120
Speaker 4: bonds between the kind of left here in the United

1224
01:01:03,120 --> 01:01:06,400
Speaker 4: States and the rising left down in South America. They

1225
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:08,760
Speaker 4: met with Gabriel Borock, who's who we've talked about on

1226
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:11,640
Speaker 4: the show. Is the or they met with. I don't,

1227
01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:13,320
Speaker 4: actually I don't. I don't I think they met with him.

1228
01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:17,160
Speaker 4: I don't want to say that for sure, but they had.

1229
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:21,439
Speaker 4: That's the president of Chile, kind of millennial lefty guy

1230
01:01:21,640 --> 01:01:25,680
Speaker 4: who's been an officer for about a year. AOC had

1231
01:01:26,200 --> 01:01:31,160
Speaker 4: attached an amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act asking

1232
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:36,080
Speaker 4: for the documents related to the nineteen seventy three coup

1233
01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:40,720
Speaker 4: in Chile to be declassified CIA documents that never even

1234
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:43,280
Speaker 4: got a vote. Lots of amendments don't get a vote,

1235
01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:46,880
Speaker 4: but it got a little tiny bit of coverage. Now,

1236
01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:50,920
Speaker 4: Borick had pushed for the release of these documents, and

1237
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:54,360
Speaker 4: so they were released by the embassy in Chile, and

1238
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:57,480
Speaker 4: they were released with a note that says, we hope

1239
01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:01,200
Speaker 4: that this helps with US Chile and relations because you know,

1240
01:02:01,400 --> 01:02:04,440
Speaker 4: Pinochet was in power until nineteen ninety and still has

1241
01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:07,439
Speaker 4: you know, still looms over the over the politics there.

1242
01:02:07,600 --> 01:02:11,640
Speaker 4: Like his opponent was a kind of Pinochet's supporter and

1243
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:16,600
Speaker 4: talked about you know, uh, talked romantically about the time

1244
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:20,240
Speaker 4: period and so that this is not history for them.

1245
01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:20,760
Speaker 7: Uh.

1246
01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:23,640
Speaker 4: And so what they're released is two presidential daily briefs

1247
01:02:24,040 --> 01:02:28,640
Speaker 4: from one was uh, September eleventh, which is a day

1248
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:29,120
Speaker 4: of the coup.

1249
01:02:29,440 --> 01:02:31,600
Speaker 3: The other was from three days before the coup.

1250
01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:35,400
Speaker 4: And what you see is, you know, Nixon getting information

1251
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:38,680
Speaker 4: from the intelligence agencies that a coup looks like it's

1252
01:02:38,680 --> 01:02:41,600
Speaker 4: going to happen. That at first they talk about the

1253
01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:45,880
Speaker 4: navy might might be the one that's gonna lead the coup.

1254
01:02:47,240 --> 01:02:50,520
Speaker 4: Do you have them September eleventh, they're still not you know,

1255
01:02:50,600 --> 01:02:53,960
Speaker 4: certain that it's going to happen. It's the whole situation

1256
01:02:54,080 --> 01:02:57,360
Speaker 4: is murky and unclear, and the US role in the

1257
01:02:57,400 --> 01:03:01,280
Speaker 4: coup is kind of contentious because the US very clearly

1258
01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:09,880
Speaker 4: and actively destabilized the country, wanted Allende ousted. Kissinger famously said,

1259
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:13,720
Speaker 4: make the economy scream. There were CIA agents who were

1260
01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:16,760
Speaker 4: you know, played active roles in you know, destabilizing the

1261
01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:21,439
Speaker 4: economy through different work stoppages and other kind of other

1262
01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:25,920
Speaker 4: kind of sabotage throughout the economy. But there was also

1263
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:29,479
Speaker 4: a you know, very native Chilean element to the coup.

1264
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:33,480
Speaker 4: The Chilean right, you know very much h you wanted

1265
01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:35,520
Speaker 4: the support of the United States, but wanted you know,

1266
01:03:35,560 --> 01:03:38,080
Speaker 4: it was going to do it. They weren't taking necessarily orders,

1267
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:40,640
Speaker 4: but it's more like they wanted permission. And what's clear

1268
01:03:40,720 --> 01:03:43,520
Speaker 4: from the newest Dygram is that the permission was there.

1269
01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:46,000
Speaker 3: Like after the.

1270
01:03:45,960 --> 01:03:49,920
Speaker 4: Coup, the Nixon administration condemned it and SAIDUS is this

1271
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:54,200
Speaker 4: is outrageous violation of democratic principles. But as we as

1272
01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:57,760
Speaker 4: we know now, they were very secretly supportive of it

1273
01:03:57,800 --> 01:04:00,400
Speaker 4: immediately and did everything they could to like make sure

1274
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:03,960
Speaker 4: that the coups stuck as it did then for seventeen

1275
01:04:04,120 --> 01:04:05,120
Speaker 4: seventeen years.

1276
01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:07,919
Speaker 6: And so a lot of this comes from and there's

1277
01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:11,600
Speaker 6: parallels with Guatemala, for instance, how the CIA destabilized Guatemala.

1278
01:04:11,720 --> 01:04:15,520
Speaker 6: Ayendi tried to nationalize. He did nationalize copper minds in Chile,

1279
01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:17,880
Speaker 6: which was a huge I mean, American business was like

1280
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:18,880
Speaker 6: sixty percent.

1281
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:20,280
Speaker 5: Of the Chilean economy at the time.

1282
01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:24,560
Speaker 6: And so to business interests that have their tentacles all

1283
01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:28,320
Speaker 6: over the CIA and have since the inception of the

1284
01:04:28,320 --> 01:04:31,920
Speaker 6: CIA in the OSS, they are saying, we got to

1285
01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:35,800
Speaker 6: do something right. And so what's interesting also though, is

1286
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:37,920
Speaker 6: the pretense. And I think it was Nixon who said

1287
01:04:37,920 --> 01:04:40,120
Speaker 6: the scream thing to kissing jer and then Kissinger sort

1288
01:04:40,120 --> 01:04:42,720
Speaker 6: of carries it out. Yeah, it directs the from the

1289
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:45,280
Speaker 6: Nixon tapes, I think, but directs the CIA to take

1290
01:04:45,400 --> 01:04:46,480
Speaker 6: various different steps.

1291
01:04:46,680 --> 01:04:49,320
Speaker 3: Right they told the CIA do it, and yeah, exactly.

1292
01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:52,600
Speaker 6: And the CIA is funding certain dissidents. But the economy

1293
01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:55,920
Speaker 6: under Allende had all absolutely faltered. And you can make

1294
01:04:55,920 --> 01:04:59,200
Speaker 6: the argument that's because of his more collectivist policies, or

1295
01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:01,360
Speaker 6: you can make the argument and it's because the United

1296
01:05:01,400 --> 01:05:05,120
Speaker 6: States said, well, great, like we're not doing business with

1297
01:05:05,160 --> 01:05:08,160
Speaker 6: you anymore, and there's no market for all of this copper.

1298
01:05:08,360 --> 01:05:08,720
Speaker 5: Sorry.

1299
01:05:09,320 --> 01:05:12,800
Speaker 6: And so it's clear interventionism and in their economy on

1300
01:05:12,840 --> 01:05:13,360
Speaker 6: our behalf.

1301
01:05:13,600 --> 01:05:15,760
Speaker 5: But it's happening in the middle of the Cold War.

1302
01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:19,440
Speaker 6: And again what we see with Guatemala, we saw this

1303
01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:23,120
Speaker 6: to some extent with Cuba and other places throughout South

1304
01:05:23,160 --> 01:05:27,480
Speaker 6: America Honduras, is that there were there were business interests,

1305
01:05:27,520 --> 01:05:31,240
Speaker 6: but you also had Allende with contacts in the KGB

1306
01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:35,200
Speaker 6: we know from declassified not declassified but obtained KGB Soviet

1307
01:05:35,240 --> 01:05:38,600
Speaker 6: information that they had met with a enda that they

1308
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:42,400
Speaker 6: had in some ways fueled the rise of UH and

1309
01:05:42,600 --> 01:05:45,479
Speaker 6: is one of a socialist Marxist, socialist kind of guy,

1310
01:05:45,600 --> 01:05:49,320
Speaker 6: hard to define than a communist, like a hardcore He's

1311
01:05:49,320 --> 01:05:51,680
Speaker 6: not Chae Gavara, he's not fit out Castro, though he

1312
01:05:51,720 --> 01:05:53,000
Speaker 6: was also cooperative with Cashro.

1313
01:05:53,400 --> 01:05:57,000
Speaker 5: At the same time, you have this like real fear that.

1314
01:05:56,920 --> 01:06:00,360
Speaker 6: There's going to be this Soviet bulwark in South America

1315
01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:05,640
Speaker 6: that embolden's Cuba right off our coasts with nuclear weapons,

1316
01:06:05,720 --> 01:06:08,480
Speaker 6: and it's just I think when you see parallels to

1317
01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:11,760
Speaker 6: it today, it's a great example of how it's like Listen,

1318
01:06:11,920 --> 01:06:14,560
Speaker 6: we have been doing this for decades and it never

1319
01:06:14,640 --> 01:06:17,960
Speaker 6: works out the way you Henry Kissinger, who's still trying

1320
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:21,680
Speaker 6: to like make excuses for ideas like this. It has

1321
01:06:21,960 --> 01:06:25,160
Speaker 6: never worked out the way the sort of realists during

1322
01:06:25,160 --> 01:06:26,600
Speaker 6: the Cold War set it would never.

1323
01:06:26,960 --> 01:06:29,280
Speaker 4: And the irony is that the upshot is that it's

1324
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:32,400
Speaker 4: ending with a lot of these countries forming tighter relationships

1325
01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:32,880
Speaker 4: with China.

1326
01:06:33,160 --> 01:06:34,680
Speaker 3: Yes, while we were looking at the SIVI Union the

1327
01:06:34,720 --> 01:06:35,840
Speaker 3: whole time. It's like, whoops.

1328
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:38,560
Speaker 6: But it did the same thing. It pushed people during

1329
01:06:38,600 --> 01:06:41,320
Speaker 6: the Cold War into the Soviet Union's arms in Indonesia,

1330
01:06:41,400 --> 01:06:43,760
Speaker 6: for example, where people did not want to turn to

1331
01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:46,040
Speaker 6: the Soviet Union, they wanted to have good relationships with

1332
01:06:46,080 --> 01:06:48,360
Speaker 6: the United States. And you see the exact same thing

1333
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:50,040
Speaker 6: playing out today. And I think, Ryan, you want to

1334
01:06:50,040 --> 01:06:51,680
Speaker 6: talk about Guatemala in this context.

1335
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:53,960
Speaker 4: Yes, if we had put up that second one to

1336
01:06:53,960 --> 01:06:56,840
Speaker 4: bring it to the present day. We talked I guess

1337
01:06:56,840 --> 01:07:01,960
Speaker 4: two weeks ago about the upcoming Guatemalan election with Bernie

1338
01:07:02,760 --> 01:07:08,680
Speaker 4: and Bernie won. Bernardo Arevalo, the progressive insurgent candidate who's

1339
01:07:08,720 --> 01:07:12,480
Speaker 4: the grandson of the first president elected back in the

1340
01:07:12,600 --> 01:07:18,640
Speaker 4: nineteen forties, so they're the democratic legacy that survived through

1341
01:07:18,680 --> 01:07:21,960
Speaker 4: the civil war that came after the US back to

1342
01:07:21,960 --> 01:07:27,240
Speaker 4: coup in nineteen fifty four. Is is clearly resonant with

1343
01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:33,360
Speaker 4: the Guatemalan people. So he wins, but immediately another and

1344
01:07:33,400 --> 01:07:36,520
Speaker 4: I'll just just read this ap article. It's just insane

1345
01:07:36,560 --> 01:07:38,760
Speaker 4: what the left has to deal with when they take power.

1346
01:07:38,920 --> 01:07:42,360
Speaker 4: Progressive candidate Bernardo Arivallo was confirmed the winner of Guatemala's

1347
01:07:42,360 --> 01:07:45,840
Speaker 4: presidential election by the country's Supreme Electoral Tribunal on Monday,

1348
01:07:46,040 --> 01:07:48,960
Speaker 4: but the same day another government body ordered his political

1349
01:07:48,960 --> 01:07:52,600
Speaker 4: party suspended. Rivallo has faced a slew of legal challenges

1350
01:07:52,600 --> 01:07:55,760
Speaker 4: and allegations of irregularity since his unexpected victory over a

1351
01:07:55,800 --> 01:07:59,919
Speaker 4: candidate favored by the country's conservative elite. Rivallo appears certain

1352
01:08:00,040 --> 01:08:02,320
Speaker 4: take office as president on January fourteenth, but it was

1353
01:08:02,320 --> 01:08:05,200
Speaker 4: not clear whether his Seed Movement lawmakers would be able

1354
01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:07,520
Speaker 4: to take their seats in the country's Congress. And so

1355
01:08:08,240 --> 01:08:11,600
Speaker 4: another situation where you have the will of the people

1356
01:08:11,880 --> 01:08:17,160
Speaker 4: expressed through an election. They want Arivallo in power, and

1357
01:08:17,320 --> 01:08:19,280
Speaker 4: they want him to be able to enact the agenda

1358
01:08:19,320 --> 01:08:23,719
Speaker 4: that he ran on, and he's just getting stonewalled at

1359
01:08:23,760 --> 01:08:27,040
Speaker 4: every turn, they might not even let his party take power,

1360
01:08:27,880 --> 01:08:29,800
Speaker 4: and then what and then you have a situation that

1361
01:08:29,880 --> 01:08:34,960
Speaker 4: Castillo in Peru or elsewhere where he can't then deliver

1362
01:08:35,680 --> 01:08:38,640
Speaker 4: on what he was elected to do. You'll see some

1363
01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:41,479
Speaker 4: protests and all of a sudden, oh in the shame,

1364
01:08:41,520 --> 01:08:43,880
Speaker 4: we had a no confidence vote. And if the United

1365
01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:48,960
Speaker 4: States is serious about quote unquote root causes trying to

1366
01:08:49,080 --> 01:08:52,760
Speaker 4: like actually bring stability and prosperity to countries so that

1367
01:08:52,800 --> 01:08:55,479
Speaker 4: they're not so that people are not kind of pushed

1368
01:08:55,520 --> 01:09:00,640
Speaker 4: out two hour border because of both economic and political crises,

1369
01:09:01,400 --> 01:09:03,759
Speaker 4: then you would think that we would say, you don't,

1370
01:09:03,760 --> 01:09:06,040
Speaker 4: how about you honor the will the people down there, yep,

1371
01:09:06,200 --> 01:09:08,879
Speaker 4: Like let the guy take power. But that would require

1372
01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:15,920
Speaker 4: allowing Guatemala sovereignty and potentially even allowing Guatemala workers to

1373
01:09:16,280 --> 01:09:17,320
Speaker 4: ask for higher wages.

1374
01:09:17,560 --> 01:09:20,559
Speaker 6: We talked about foreign aid, like in the context of Ukraine,

1375
01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:22,840
Speaker 6: particularly earlier in the show, and the way that it's

1376
01:09:22,880 --> 01:09:26,560
Speaker 6: actually fairly normal, like the Trump apologists during the first impeachment,

1377
01:09:26,960 --> 01:09:29,360
Speaker 6: like there were some specific things that Trump did that

1378
01:09:29,400 --> 01:09:31,479
Speaker 6: were different than how it normally goes because he's just

1379
01:09:31,520 --> 01:09:33,080
Speaker 6: like more nakedly transactional.

1380
01:09:33,120 --> 01:09:35,320
Speaker 5: But it is normal to use foreign.

1381
01:09:35,120 --> 01:09:39,440
Speaker 6: Aid as a as a carrot to get to manipulate

1382
01:09:39,479 --> 01:09:43,000
Speaker 6: other countries, and to some extent it's understandable, but it's

1383
01:09:43,040 --> 01:09:46,240
Speaker 6: also malign in many cases like this one, and throughout

1384
01:09:46,280 --> 01:09:49,400
Speaker 6: our history in Latin America, where we look and conservatives

1385
01:09:50,160 --> 01:09:53,839
Speaker 6: people on my side say, well, these Latin American countries

1386
01:09:53,880 --> 01:09:55,640
Speaker 6: just need to take care of their own business. It's

1387
01:09:55,680 --> 01:09:59,280
Speaker 6: not our business to worry about. You know that this

1388
01:09:59,320 --> 01:10:02,200
Speaker 6: is a problem is dragging the American economy down, and

1389
01:10:02,240 --> 01:10:06,720
Speaker 6: Guatemala should deal with Guatemala. Why can't Honduras fix Honduras

1390
01:10:06,720 --> 01:10:09,439
Speaker 6: And it's like, well, they're reeling from decades of a

1391
01:10:09,479 --> 01:10:13,960
Speaker 6: foreign policy that was the pretense was understandable and correct

1392
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:17,840
Speaker 6: about nuclear weapons and communism in Cuba. You know you

1393
01:10:17,880 --> 01:10:20,760
Speaker 6: don't want nuclear weapons right off the Florida coast, obviously,

1394
01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:24,840
Speaker 6: but it was so often motivated by business interests, literal

1395
01:10:24,840 --> 01:10:28,759
Speaker 6: banana republic stuff that we were fomenting in these countries

1396
01:10:28,760 --> 01:10:30,519
Speaker 6: that they're still reeling from and that.

1397
01:10:30,439 --> 01:10:32,080
Speaker 5: We are still interfering in.

1398
01:10:32,160 --> 01:10:35,280
Speaker 6: We talked to the former ambassador to Haiti, this is

1399
01:10:35,560 --> 01:10:37,960
Speaker 6: a similar situation had the United States.

1400
01:10:38,000 --> 01:10:40,360
Speaker 5: Because we want to be able to deport.

1401
01:10:41,439 --> 01:10:44,800
Speaker 6: Impoverished Haitian migrants that have lived in other countries all

1402
01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:47,559
Speaker 6: over South and Central America back to Port au Prince.

1403
01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:49,360
Speaker 5: Because we want to be able to do that.

1404
01:10:49,640 --> 01:10:52,920
Speaker 6: We're backing somebody who basically doesn't have the will of

1405
01:10:52,920 --> 01:10:57,680
Speaker 6: the people and using our power to ensure that he

1406
01:10:57,800 --> 01:11:00,599
Speaker 6: remains in power in this transactional quid pro quote when

1407
01:11:00,640 --> 01:11:03,800
Speaker 6: it comes to migrants, it is still happening. This is

1408
01:11:03,840 --> 01:11:06,400
Speaker 6: still our policy essentially, yeah right.

1409
01:11:06,479 --> 01:11:11,599
Speaker 4: And all of these kind of conservative Guatemalan elites who

1410
01:11:11,640 --> 01:11:16,160
Speaker 4: are trying to block Rivallo from enacting as the agenda

1411
01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:18,920
Speaker 4: are either acting on the behalf of the United States

1412
01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:20,839
Speaker 4: or think they're acting on behalf of the United States.

1413
01:11:21,240 --> 01:11:24,439
Speaker 4: And if you guys really cared about root causes all

1414
01:11:24,439 --> 01:11:26,600
Speaker 4: they you know, with a flick of the wrist, they

1415
01:11:26,640 --> 01:11:27,960
Speaker 4: could tell them back off.

1416
01:11:28,280 --> 01:11:29,040
Speaker 3: He won the election.

1417
01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:33,760
Speaker 4: The United States is proud of the Guatemalan people for

1418
01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:36,519
Speaker 4: holding this free and fair election. Now it's time to

1419
01:11:36,560 --> 01:11:39,559
Speaker 4: allow him to govern. And how can we help, because

1420
01:11:39,720 --> 01:11:44,040
Speaker 4: you know, rather than the previous efforts to quote unquote help,

1421
01:11:44,080 --> 01:11:46,800
Speaker 4: which is just to try to undermine democracy by saying, well,

1422
01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:50,840
Speaker 4: let's create a gigantic area of Honduras or Guatemala that

1423
01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:52,600
Speaker 4: has no laws and we're just going to sell it

1424
01:11:52,640 --> 01:11:53,439
Speaker 4: to crypto bros.

1425
01:11:54,120 --> 01:11:56,680
Speaker 3: And you just do that, oh you're doing.

1426
01:11:56,920 --> 01:11:58,680
Speaker 6: But I was actually just going to talk about bo

1427
01:11:58,800 --> 01:12:01,439
Speaker 6: Kelly because this our left far right clash in Latin

1428
01:12:01,479 --> 01:12:04,439
Speaker 6: America right now is really interesting when you have both

1429
01:12:04,479 --> 01:12:07,200
Speaker 6: the fear of the sort of Cardillo and then the

1430
01:12:07,320 --> 01:12:10,679
Speaker 6: nostalgia in some ways too, because you have rampant crime

1431
01:12:10,760 --> 01:12:14,000
Speaker 6: again created in no small part by our border policies

1432
01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:17,200
Speaker 6: and our drug policies all throughout Latin America. And then

1433
01:12:17,240 --> 01:12:20,160
Speaker 6: you have people in America looking at Bukele, especially people

1434
01:12:20,200 --> 01:12:22,280
Speaker 6: on the left, and just sort of like this is

1435
01:12:22,520 --> 01:12:25,439
Speaker 6: outrageous and just sort of dripping with sanctimony over what

1436
01:12:25,479 --> 01:12:28,200
Speaker 6: bou Keley is doing. And at the same time, you

1437
01:12:28,240 --> 01:12:31,640
Speaker 6: have people in Latin America who are disgusted by, you know,

1438
01:12:31,720 --> 01:12:35,479
Speaker 6: the sort of former Sandinista rising to power again because

1439
01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:39,439
Speaker 6: people have really visceral, deep memories in their lifetimes of

1440
01:12:39,560 --> 01:12:42,800
Speaker 6: the left dictator and the right dictator and this is

1441
01:12:42,920 --> 01:12:46,840
Speaker 6: coming to a head again now. It's it's actually like

1442
01:12:46,960 --> 01:12:49,880
Speaker 6: really fascinating, but it's so sad the way that we're

1443
01:12:49,920 --> 01:12:53,600
Speaker 6: we have learned essensibly zero lessons from.

1444
01:12:53,479 --> 01:12:54,440
Speaker 5: Our own lifetimes.

1445
01:12:54,600 --> 01:12:58,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, and the conservative Guatemalan candidate fashioned herself as a bukeley.

1446
01:12:59,439 --> 01:13:01,320
Speaker 4: I'm going to do it basically what he did and

1447
01:13:01,800 --> 01:13:03,880
Speaker 4: lost in a landslide. And we can talk about more

1448
01:13:03,880 --> 01:13:06,280
Speaker 4: in the future the Future show. There's this a wild

1449
01:13:06,479 --> 01:13:10,280
Speaker 4: story unfolding in Honduras where under the under the coup president,

1450
01:13:10,960 --> 01:13:15,200
Speaker 4: they enacted this law that allowed basically bitcoin crypto dudes

1451
01:13:15,200 --> 01:13:18,680
Speaker 4: to come in and build their own country almost.

1452
01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:19,400
Speaker 3: With its own sovereignty.

1453
01:13:19,640 --> 01:13:23,400
Speaker 4: And then once Shiamora Castro was elected kind of progressive

1454
01:13:23,439 --> 01:13:26,200
Speaker 4: down in Honduras, she's like, no, as you're just done.

1455
01:13:26,200 --> 01:13:29,439
Speaker 3: You can't do this anymore. Now they're like basically suing.

1456
01:13:29,800 --> 01:13:33,120
Speaker 4: Honduras are taking there, They're like doing They're they're using

1457
01:13:33,160 --> 01:13:36,200
Speaker 4: all of the power of international capital to say no, no, no,

1458
01:13:36,240 --> 01:13:38,120
Speaker 4: like we actually own this state.

1459
01:13:38,720 --> 01:13:39,120
Speaker 3: You do not.

1460
01:13:39,400 --> 01:13:42,479
Speaker 4: It's like, well do we believe in? What are we exporting?

1461
01:13:43,200 --> 01:13:44,480
Speaker 4: Crypto bros or democracy?

1462
01:13:44,520 --> 01:13:51,479
Speaker 5: It starts with copper mining ends with crypto mining. I

1463
01:13:51,520 --> 01:13:51,800
Speaker 5: want to.

1464
01:13:51,800 --> 01:13:55,280
Speaker 6: Revisit some comments that Jensaki made while she was watching

1465
01:13:55,280 --> 01:13:55,960
Speaker 6: the Republicans.

1466
01:13:56,320 --> 01:13:59,320
Speaker 5: They haven't done that yet. Oh, yes, how dare you run?

1467
01:13:59,400 --> 01:13:59,519
Speaker 3: Yes?

1468
01:14:01,280 --> 01:14:04,080
Speaker 6: No, it's actually a pretty interesting thing to talk about.

1469
01:14:04,120 --> 01:14:08,400
Speaker 6: So let's actually roll right now a couple of clips

1470
01:14:08,400 --> 01:14:10,920
Speaker 6: of Jensaki from her show on MSNBC, which I sometimes

1471
01:14:10,960 --> 01:14:12,600
Speaker 6: forget exists as kind of remarkable.

1472
01:14:13,479 --> 01:14:14,960
Speaker 5: Kaylee mcananey is on Fox News.

1473
01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:18,719
Speaker 6: So former Trump Press Secretary Ari Fleischer, Bush Press Secretary

1474
01:14:18,800 --> 01:14:23,240
Speaker 6: Dana Perino Bush Secretary on Fox News. Jensaki is the

1475
01:14:23,240 --> 01:14:26,280
Speaker 6: host of her own show on MSNBC these Days, and

1476
01:14:26,680 --> 01:14:30,320
Speaker 6: she got into a sort of tiff with conservatives on

1477
01:14:30,320 --> 01:14:33,519
Speaker 6: Twitter during the Republican debate because she tweeted, essentially, and

1478
01:14:33,640 --> 01:14:35,439
Speaker 6: we'll hear her talk about this in the clip, that

1479
01:14:35,840 --> 01:14:38,640
Speaker 6: Democrats do not support late term abortion. I think she

1480
01:14:38,680 --> 01:14:41,920
Speaker 6: even said, like nobody supports late term abortion, And then

1481
01:14:42,080 --> 01:14:44,439
Speaker 6: on her show, in an attempt to kind of fact

1482
01:14:44,479 --> 01:14:48,639
Speaker 6: check Republicans who sought to dunk on her over that comment,

1483
01:14:48,880 --> 01:14:52,400
Speaker 6: she basically confirms the criticism of her. And it's really interesting.

1484
01:14:52,439 --> 01:14:54,880
Speaker 6: So let's take a look at Jensaki from this weekend.

1485
01:14:55,120 --> 01:14:58,040
Speaker 13: This claim that Democrats support abortion up until the moment

1486
01:14:58,080 --> 01:15:02,200
Speaker 13: of birth is entirely miss leading. First of all, abortions

1487
01:15:02,320 --> 01:15:05,439
Speaker 13: pass the point of fetal viability do not happen often.

1488
01:15:05,760 --> 01:15:10,760
Speaker 13: They are incredibly rare, and those that do happen involve agonizing,

1489
01:15:10,880 --> 01:15:14,800
Speaker 13: emotional and ethical decisions. According to the CDC, the vast

1490
01:15:14,840 --> 01:15:17,479
Speaker 13: majority of abortions in the United States, over eighty percent

1491
01:15:17,520 --> 01:15:21,559
Speaker 13: in twenty twenty, happened before ten weeks of pregnancy, and

1492
01:15:21,640 --> 01:15:25,280
Speaker 13: over ninety percent take place in the first twelve weeks.

1493
01:15:25,560 --> 01:15:29,280
Speaker 13: Less than one percent one percent happen after twenty one

1494
01:15:29,560 --> 01:15:32,200
Speaker 13: weeks of pregnancy. If you look state by state, you

1495
01:15:32,240 --> 01:15:35,000
Speaker 13: see a similar pattern, as compiled by the Washington Post.

1496
01:15:35,040 --> 01:15:39,000
Speaker 13: In Virginia, since two thousand and abortion after twenty eight

1497
01:15:39,040 --> 01:15:42,400
Speaker 13: weeks has been performed only in three of the last

1498
01:15:42,479 --> 01:15:46,559
Speaker 13: twenty two years. In Oklahoma in twenty twenty one, only

1499
01:15:46,680 --> 01:15:49,880
Speaker 13: six out of nearly six thousand abortions took place after

1500
01:15:49,920 --> 01:15:53,320
Speaker 13: twenty one weeks, And in Colorado, where the Boulder Abortion

1501
01:15:53,439 --> 01:15:57,479
Speaker 13: Clinics specializes in late term abortions, less than two percent

1502
01:15:57,600 --> 01:16:00,920
Speaker 13: of nearly twelve thousand abortions in twenty two anyone took

1503
01:16:00,960 --> 01:16:04,559
Speaker 13: place after twenty one weeks, and just sixty took place

1504
01:16:04,640 --> 01:16:08,080
Speaker 13: after twenty five weeks or later. Are most Democrats in

1505
01:16:08,120 --> 01:16:11,880
Speaker 13: favor of a legislation that allows for this Yes, for

1506
01:16:12,000 --> 01:16:14,600
Speaker 13: all the reasons, I just outlined at the end of

1507
01:16:14,640 --> 01:16:16,840
Speaker 13: the day. The point here is that no one is

1508
01:16:16,920 --> 01:16:19,960
Speaker 13: rooting for late term abortions. No one is running on

1509
01:16:20,000 --> 01:16:22,959
Speaker 13: the platform of aborting viable babies.

1510
01:16:23,120 --> 01:16:25,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, so that's not a fact check at all. Those

1511
01:16:25,040 --> 01:16:27,679
Speaker 6: are facts that everyone is on the same page about.

1512
01:16:27,680 --> 01:16:31,439
Speaker 6: Every Republican that I know would say exactly everything that

1513
01:16:31,520 --> 01:16:35,080
Speaker 6: Jensaki said. Nobody denies any of those facts. Which interesting

1514
01:16:35,160 --> 01:16:37,760
Speaker 6: is that she started the segment by saying the Republican

1515
01:16:37,800 --> 01:16:41,080
Speaker 6: attack on her was quote misleading, that the Republican talking

1516
01:16:41,120 --> 01:16:45,800
Speaker 6: point that Democrats support abortion up until birth is quote misleading.

1517
01:16:45,840 --> 01:16:47,000
Speaker 5: That's how she starts the clip.

1518
01:16:47,200 --> 01:16:49,840
Speaker 6: She ends the clip with that line where she says,

1519
01:16:50,240 --> 01:16:56,920
Speaker 6: do Democrats support legislation that allows for abortion of viable babies? Yes,

1520
01:16:57,080 --> 01:16:58,640
Speaker 6: That's how she ended the clip. And that's why I

1521
01:16:58,680 --> 01:17:00,840
Speaker 6: wanted to play the full thing because a all of

1522
01:17:00,840 --> 01:17:03,879
Speaker 6: her facts there are completely correct. It is most often

1523
01:17:03,920 --> 01:17:08,800
Speaker 6: in agonizing, horrific decision that women make to abort late

1524
01:17:08,880 --> 01:17:12,400
Speaker 6: term babies. Late term is not a medical definition. It's

1525
01:17:12,439 --> 01:17:16,080
Speaker 6: something that's used basically to convey a viability, so around

1526
01:17:16,080 --> 01:17:18,840
Speaker 6: twenty one weeks. After twenty one weeks, these are not

1527
01:17:19,000 --> 01:17:21,880
Speaker 6: in most cases. Third term abortions there, but they are

1528
01:17:22,240 --> 01:17:27,160
Speaker 6: because of medical technology, in many cases viable babies. And

1529
01:17:27,200 --> 01:17:31,040
Speaker 6: they're also pain capable babies. And that's another important thing

1530
01:17:31,080 --> 01:17:34,320
Speaker 6: to remember when Jensaki is saying, listen, look at these numbers.

1531
01:17:34,800 --> 01:17:38,880
Speaker 6: This is exceedingly rare. But would democrats allow for Do

1532
01:17:38,960 --> 01:17:43,320
Speaker 6: most Democrats allow for the termination of pregnancies, the abortion

1533
01:17:43,600 --> 01:17:45,759
Speaker 6: of babies up until that stage?

1534
01:17:46,160 --> 01:17:46,479
Speaker 5: Yes.

1535
01:17:46,880 --> 01:17:49,599
Speaker 6: Her thing at the end where she says bottom line

1536
01:17:49,640 --> 01:17:53,360
Speaker 6: is nobody is quote rooting for these late term abortions.

1537
01:17:53,400 --> 01:17:56,960
Speaker 6: I think is again absolutely true except for some fringe

1538
01:17:57,000 --> 01:18:01,439
Speaker 6: of the far left sort of abortion advocacy wing, that

1539
01:18:01,600 --> 01:18:04,439
Speaker 6: is largely true. These are horrific decisions that women have

1540
01:18:04,479 --> 01:18:08,479
Speaker 6: to make, but Democrat policies absolutely allow for it. And

1541
01:18:08,600 --> 01:18:12,240
Speaker 6: Jensaki just said yes to that herself. So she's trying

1542
01:18:12,320 --> 01:18:16,120
Speaker 6: to have this sort of semantic debate about whether democrats.

1543
01:18:16,240 --> 01:18:19,639
Speaker 6: Saying Democrats support abortion up until birth is the same

1544
01:18:19,800 --> 01:18:21,559
Speaker 6: as Democrats.

1545
01:18:21,000 --> 01:18:23,160
Speaker 5: Allowing for abortion up until birth.

1546
01:18:23,200 --> 01:18:25,960
Speaker 6: And I would say when Republicans argue and conservatives argue

1547
01:18:25,960 --> 01:18:30,400
Speaker 6: that Republicans support or that Democrats support abortion up until birth,

1548
01:18:30,439 --> 01:18:34,400
Speaker 6: there's absolutely nothing factually inconsistent about that statement. Because the

1549
01:18:34,439 --> 01:18:38,640
Speaker 6: Women's Health Protection Act, for instance, which virtually every Democrat

1550
01:18:38,720 --> 01:18:42,120
Speaker 6: in Congress voted for and supports, has a mental health

1551
01:18:42,160 --> 01:18:46,840
Speaker 6: exception up until birth. So that means you can and

1552
01:18:46,960 --> 01:18:49,920
Speaker 6: a doctor can give any woman a mental health exception

1553
01:18:50,320 --> 01:18:54,880
Speaker 6: to terminate a pregnancy after viability, after paying capability up

1554
01:18:54,960 --> 01:18:56,960
Speaker 6: until the moment of birth. Now, whether or not that

1555
01:18:57,080 --> 01:19:00,880
Speaker 6: happens often is a completely different question. The point that

1556
01:19:00,920 --> 01:19:04,000
Speaker 6: Republicans are making is that the legislation and the policies

1557
01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:09,760
Speaker 6: of Democrats absolutely allow for that, and Jensaki agreed. So

1558
01:19:10,040 --> 01:19:13,439
Speaker 6: when we can debate whether or not these are frequent,

1559
01:19:13,920 --> 01:19:16,080
Speaker 6: we can look at the facts that Jensaki shared. It's

1560
01:19:16,120 --> 01:19:18,439
Speaker 6: absolutely true. I'm going to read from John McCormick, who

1561
01:19:18,439 --> 01:19:21,040
Speaker 6: covers this issue really well for National Review, who wrote

1562
01:19:21,080 --> 01:19:23,280
Speaker 6: the odd thing about Saki's false assertion that late term

1563
01:19:23,360 --> 01:19:26,120
Speaker 6: abortions are quote almost always performed when the baby cannot

1564
01:19:26,120 --> 01:19:28,200
Speaker 6: survive after birth or to save the life of the mother,

1565
01:19:28,280 --> 01:19:30,679
Speaker 6: is that during her TP segment she quoted the same

1566
01:19:30,760 --> 01:19:33,479
Speaker 6: Colorado abortionists. This is a guy out of Boulder who

1567
01:19:33,520 --> 01:19:35,840
Speaker 6: said to the Washington Post, quote, in an average week

1568
01:19:35,880 --> 01:19:37,840
Speaker 6: at my office, twenty five to fifty percent of the

1569
01:19:37,880 --> 01:19:42,479
Speaker 6: patients have some serious catastrophic fetal abnormality, and there are

1570
01:19:42,520 --> 01:19:44,960
Speaker 6: some weeks in which this is true for one hundred

1571
01:19:44,960 --> 01:19:47,320
Speaker 6: percent of the patients. In other words, in a quote

1572
01:19:47,320 --> 01:19:50,880
Speaker 6: average week, fifty to seventy five percent of the viable

1573
01:19:50,880 --> 01:19:56,000
Speaker 6: babies he kills with a poison filled syringe are physically healthy.

1574
01:19:56,439 --> 01:20:01,800
Speaker 6: That is from the abortionist's own rhetoric. That's his statistics

1575
01:20:01,840 --> 01:20:06,519
Speaker 6: on his own clinic. Now, according to Guttmacher, as McCormick continues,

1576
01:20:06,560 --> 01:20:09,240
Speaker 6: it's a pro abortion think tank, there are nine hundred

1577
01:20:09,240 --> 01:20:12,240
Speaker 6: and thirty thousand abortions performed annually, and one point three

1578
01:20:12,280 --> 01:20:15,200
Speaker 6: percent of abortions are performed at twenty one weeks or later.

1579
01:20:15,439 --> 01:20:18,120
Speaker 6: This is the same fact that Sak would agree with.

1580
01:20:18,960 --> 01:20:23,280
Speaker 6: That equals twelve thousand late term abortions a year. So again,

1581
01:20:23,560 --> 01:20:26,080
Speaker 6: we all agree that these are rare. We all agree

1582
01:20:26,080 --> 01:20:29,879
Speaker 6: that these are a small, a tiny fraction of annual

1583
01:20:29,920 --> 01:20:31,240
Speaker 6: abortions that occur.

1584
01:20:31,640 --> 01:20:34,320
Speaker 5: But these are viable babies.

1585
01:20:33,920 --> 01:20:37,160
Speaker 6: In many, many cases, and they are pain capable babies

1586
01:20:37,200 --> 01:20:40,520
Speaker 6: in almost all cases. And that is absolutely a consequence

1587
01:20:40,680 --> 01:20:45,400
Speaker 6: of laws that democrats quote support, which is exactly what

1588
01:20:45,520 --> 01:20:49,240
Speaker 6: Sak was herself fact checked for saying, and then in

1589
01:20:49,280 --> 01:20:52,720
Speaker 6: her own fact check confirmed. So all I'm going to

1590
01:20:52,720 --> 01:20:55,000
Speaker 6: say here is that as we're as we're wrapping up

1591
01:20:55,000 --> 01:20:56,519
Speaker 6: and I toss it to Ryan, all I want to

1592
01:20:56,560 --> 01:21:00,600
Speaker 6: say is that it is really, really obnoxious for Democrats

1593
01:21:00,600 --> 01:21:03,760
Speaker 6: to hide the ball and pretend that their policies do

1594
01:21:03,920 --> 01:21:06,080
Speaker 6: not allow for these abortions.

1595
01:21:06,479 --> 01:21:07,920
Speaker 5: I remember a Naomi.

1596
01:21:07,600 --> 01:21:11,599
Speaker 6: Wolfe essay from the late nineties where she sort of said,

1597
01:21:12,400 --> 01:21:13,639
Speaker 6: people who support abortion.

1598
01:21:14,439 --> 01:21:16,559
Speaker 5: This is when she was more of a leftist than

1599
01:21:16,600 --> 01:21:17,120
Speaker 5: she is now.

1600
01:21:17,200 --> 01:21:20,920
Speaker 6: People who support abortion, she wrote, basically, should be open

1601
01:21:20,960 --> 01:21:26,200
Speaker 6: about the reality of abortion because the reality is ugly.

1602
01:21:26,600 --> 01:21:30,000
Speaker 6: But there's a moral argument. This is her perspective at

1603
01:21:30,000 --> 01:21:32,640
Speaker 6: the time. There's a moral argument to allowing women to

1604
01:21:32,760 --> 01:21:36,440
Speaker 6: have the freedoms to make these decisions. Now I completely

1605
01:21:36,439 --> 01:21:40,680
Speaker 6: disagree with that, and we could have that debate, but

1606
01:21:41,080 --> 01:21:45,000
Speaker 6: her point is correct that Democrats who support these policies

1607
01:21:45,040 --> 01:21:47,400
Speaker 6: should be honest with the American people, and the media,

1608
01:21:47,479 --> 01:21:50,639
Speaker 6: even more importantly, should be honest with the American people

1609
01:21:50,760 --> 01:21:54,480
Speaker 6: about what's going on. And the media has a responsibility

1610
01:21:54,640 --> 01:21:59,559
Speaker 6: to hold Democrats accountable for supporting policies that support for

1611
01:21:59,640 --> 01:22:03,240
Speaker 6: a bora up until birth, and that support abortion through

1612
01:22:03,560 --> 01:22:06,679
Speaker 6: viability in early stages you know, twenty one weeks.

1613
01:22:07,000 --> 01:22:08,519
Speaker 5: You know, that's called late term, but.

1614
01:22:08,520 --> 01:22:12,120
Speaker 6: Early in the phases of viability at least, that should

1615
01:22:12,160 --> 01:22:15,120
Speaker 6: absolutely be something. And I understand the politics of it.

1616
01:22:15,160 --> 01:22:18,200
Speaker 6: I'm not naive to that, but Democrats can spin all

1617
01:22:18,240 --> 01:22:21,360
Speaker 6: they want. The media should not spin on behalf of Democrats,

1618
01:22:21,400 --> 01:22:25,000
Speaker 6: and Democrats should have the decency to be honest with

1619
01:22:25,040 --> 01:22:28,160
Speaker 6: the American people. I'm not saying anything that Republicans are

1620
01:22:28,400 --> 01:22:31,000
Speaker 6: perfectly honest about their positions on abortion, but I am

1621
01:22:31,080 --> 01:22:33,439
Speaker 6: saying the media never gives Republicans a pass for it.

1622
01:22:33,479 --> 01:22:36,360
Speaker 6: They're constantly giving Democrats a pass for it. So Ryan

1623
01:22:37,120 --> 01:22:41,280
Speaker 6: I find this very very frustrating because Jensaki is a

1624
01:22:41,320 --> 01:22:44,439
Speaker 6: member of the media now. But also we've seen fact checks,

1625
01:22:44,439 --> 01:22:46,439
Speaker 6: so called fact checks from people like Glenn Kessler at

1626
01:22:46,479 --> 01:22:48,759
Speaker 6: the Washington Post that do a similar thing, that minimize

1627
01:22:48,800 --> 01:22:51,120
Speaker 6: the fact that we're talking about twelve thousand late term

1628
01:22:51,160 --> 01:22:54,000
Speaker 6: abortions a year, late term abortions a year so past

1629
01:22:54,080 --> 01:22:58,200
Speaker 6: the stage of viability, and that is I think that

1630
01:22:58,320 --> 01:23:02,040
Speaker 6: is a huge number, but it doesn't get any play.

1631
01:23:02,040 --> 01:23:04,680
Speaker 6: It's minimized, and Republicans are treated like crazy people for

1632
01:23:04,680 --> 01:23:05,599
Speaker 6: saying that it happens.

1633
01:23:06,080 --> 01:23:08,799
Speaker 4: And if I had to guess it was an honest

1634
01:23:09,160 --> 01:23:12,519
Speaker 4: mistake from Saki because I've gone through the same thing

1635
01:23:12,560 --> 01:23:17,760
Speaker 4: where like where you hear Republicans saying that Democrats are

1636
01:23:18,320 --> 01:23:20,200
Speaker 4: support abortion right up until birth.

1637
01:23:20,560 --> 01:23:22,480
Speaker 3: That's insane, right, that's impossible.

1638
01:23:22,680 --> 01:23:25,320
Speaker 4: So you go then you go read the Women's Health

1639
01:23:25,320 --> 01:23:28,200
Speaker 4: Protection Act, You're like, oh, okay, they do support the

1640
01:23:28,240 --> 01:23:31,240
Speaker 4: legal right to it basically right up until birth. This

1641
01:23:31,280 --> 01:23:33,920
Speaker 4: one was through a mental health exceptionally.

1642
01:23:34,880 --> 01:23:35,519
Speaker 3: Then it goes.

1643
01:23:35,560 --> 01:23:37,760
Speaker 4: I think Saki said everything else very well. You know,

1644
01:23:37,800 --> 01:23:40,040
Speaker 4: a lot of this is you know that almost all

1645
01:23:40,080 --> 01:23:44,519
Speaker 4: of these situations are terribly tragic, and I think Naomi

1646
01:23:44,520 --> 01:23:49,200
Speaker 4: Wolf makes a fair point that you know, own it,

1647
01:23:49,240 --> 01:23:51,760
Speaker 4: say like that, say that this is the right, that

1648
01:23:51,840 --> 01:23:54,400
Speaker 4: this is a fundamental right of the woman to make

1649
01:23:54,400 --> 01:23:59,160
Speaker 4: that decision, and that it's not a place for government

1650
01:23:59,320 --> 01:24:02,519
Speaker 4: to come in and tell people what to do between

1651
01:24:03,040 --> 01:24:05,559
Speaker 4: the choice between a woman and her doctor.

1652
01:24:06,360 --> 01:24:09,920
Speaker 3: H So that's where they are now.

1653
01:24:09,960 --> 01:24:12,560
Speaker 4: I also think that Democrats would at this point be

1654
01:24:12,640 --> 01:24:16,840
Speaker 4: willing to compromise on a like if if they could

1655
01:24:16,920 --> 01:24:21,240
Speaker 4: get Roby Wade codified, I think you would have a

1656
01:24:21,280 --> 01:24:23,160
Speaker 4: lot of people from will Row.

1657
01:24:23,080 --> 01:24:26,080
Speaker 5: Allowed for abortion in that stage too.

1658
01:24:26,320 --> 01:24:26,960
Speaker 8: It allowed for.

1659
01:24:26,960 --> 01:24:29,680
Speaker 3: States to allow allowed for states to allow it.

1660
01:24:29,920 --> 01:24:33,800
Speaker 4: But there I would imagine there'd be some type of

1661
01:24:34,040 --> 01:24:37,120
Speaker 4: like if that was the only thing that stood between

1662
01:24:38,600 --> 01:24:44,160
Speaker 4: legalizing re legalizing abortion nationwide and and the status quo

1663
01:24:44,320 --> 01:24:47,519
Speaker 4: in which so many states are just straight up banning it,

1664
01:24:48,000 --> 01:24:51,479
Speaker 4: then I think Democrats would ultimately, uh, you know, compromise

1665
01:24:51,560 --> 01:24:51,720
Speaker 4: on that.

1666
01:24:51,800 --> 01:24:56,759
Speaker 3: But it feels like that's not where we are.

1667
01:24:56,640 --> 01:24:59,240
Speaker 4: In our politics. That it's it's either it's either one

1668
01:24:59,280 --> 01:25:02,679
Speaker 4: thing or the other. But we'll see, you know, if

1669
01:25:03,200 --> 01:25:07,240
Speaker 4: you know, if Democrats get a trifecta in you know,

1670
01:25:07,280 --> 01:25:09,880
Speaker 4: in twenty twenty five, we'll see if they get rid

1671
01:25:09,920 --> 01:25:13,800
Speaker 4: of the filibuster and actually push ahead with something. If

1672
01:25:14,000 --> 01:25:17,880
Speaker 4: they don't and Republicans get a trifecta, like that's also

1673
01:25:17,960 --> 01:25:20,880
Speaker 4: within the realm of possibility. We'll see if they push

1674
01:25:20,880 --> 01:25:24,240
Speaker 4: a nationwide ban. But it's hard to see the two

1675
01:25:24,280 --> 01:25:26,960
Speaker 4: sitting down and saying, all right, here's how they do it.

1676
01:25:27,000 --> 01:25:28,479
Speaker 3: In a lot of European countries.

1677
01:25:28,760 --> 01:25:34,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know that there are regulations after thirty weeks

1678
01:25:34,000 --> 01:25:37,720
Speaker 4: after thirty but whatever, it just feels like we're not

1679
01:25:37,800 --> 01:25:39,960
Speaker 4: in we don't have a politics that allows for that

1680
01:25:40,360 --> 01:25:42,480
Speaker 4: type of negotiation.

1681
01:25:42,880 --> 01:25:45,120
Speaker 6: I mean, even the pro life movement is royaled right

1682
01:25:45,120 --> 01:25:48,280
Speaker 6: now about the question of Lindsay Band, Lindsay Graham's fifteen

1683
01:25:48,320 --> 01:25:51,599
Speaker 6: week ban and Ronda Santa signed a six week ban.

1684
01:25:52,640 --> 01:25:55,200
Speaker 6: These things are like even hot in that area.

1685
01:25:55,360 --> 01:25:57,320
Speaker 5: And I've seen some.

1686
01:25:57,880 --> 01:26:00,240
Speaker 3: Six week ban you basically don't know you're pregnant.

1687
01:26:00,280 --> 01:26:00,760
Speaker 7: Right, Yeah.

1688
01:26:00,960 --> 01:26:05,960
Speaker 6: I've seen some viewers say because I think when Dobbs

1689
01:26:06,000 --> 01:26:08,280
Speaker 6: was decided, we were still over at the Hill and

1690
01:26:08,320 --> 01:26:10,400
Speaker 6: we had a lot of conversations about abortion, and I've

1691
01:26:10,400 --> 01:26:14,759
Speaker 6: seen some viewers, you know, ask like why I'm anti abortion,

1692
01:26:14,920 --> 01:26:16,559
Speaker 6: And I have no problem saying anti abortion.

1693
01:26:16,600 --> 01:26:18,040
Speaker 5: I don't need it to be pro life, because that's

1694
01:26:18,080 --> 01:26:18,960
Speaker 5: exactly what it is.

1695
01:26:19,000 --> 01:26:22,680
Speaker 6: Anti abortion, but it's not. It has absolutely nothing to

1696
01:26:22,720 --> 01:26:25,720
Speaker 6: do with religion. For me, it's a simple disagreement with

1697
01:26:25,760 --> 01:26:29,240
Speaker 6: people over when life begins. And I've come down on

1698
01:26:29,240 --> 01:26:31,840
Speaker 6: the side of Christipprehichins, which is that the science makes

1699
01:26:31,880 --> 01:26:37,439
Speaker 6: it really difficult for the pro abortion side to say

1700
01:26:37,560 --> 01:26:40,080
Speaker 6: that it's not a life and that's why I think,

1701
01:26:40,160 --> 01:26:43,479
Speaker 6: you know, Ryan and Naomi Wolf in the nineties, like

1702
01:26:43,840 --> 01:26:46,120
Speaker 6: it's a much more honest position to say, it's a

1703
01:26:46,160 --> 01:26:49,839
Speaker 6: balance of the rights versus the life, and like truly,

1704
01:26:50,040 --> 01:26:53,479
Speaker 6: that's just my position is that life has begun at

1705
01:26:53,520 --> 01:26:56,519
Speaker 6: the point where just about every abortion takes place, and

1706
01:26:56,600 --> 01:26:59,559
Speaker 6: it's my position of minority. It is completely unpopular in

1707
01:26:59,560 --> 01:27:02,680
Speaker 6: this country, is not politically viable in any way whatsoever.

1708
01:27:02,960 --> 01:27:05,160
Speaker 6: And I understand that. I think it happens to be

1709
01:27:05,400 --> 01:27:10,439
Speaker 6: morally correct. But that's why those twelve thousand like infant

1710
01:27:10,520 --> 01:27:15,559
Speaker 6: lives that are painfully in many cases ended a year

1711
01:27:15,600 --> 01:27:17,519
Speaker 6: seems like a five alarm fire to me. It seems

1712
01:27:17,520 --> 01:27:19,559
Speaker 6: like something that we should be talking about all the time,

1713
01:27:19,880 --> 01:27:22,280
Speaker 6: even though it's a small minority of abortions which are

1714
01:27:22,320 --> 01:27:27,800
Speaker 6: now typically medical, not typically you know, medical abortions. They're

1715
01:27:27,840 --> 01:27:31,960
Speaker 6: not the same sort of physical process that used to

1716
01:27:31,960 --> 01:27:34,840
Speaker 6: take place. It's a lot of times in most times

1717
01:27:34,880 --> 01:27:37,719
Speaker 6: now when you have ninety percent, you know, some huge

1718
01:27:37,720 --> 01:27:40,840
Speaker 6: percentage of that ninety percent taking the form of an oral,

1719
01:27:41,960 --> 01:27:42,880
Speaker 6: medicated abortion.

1720
01:27:43,280 --> 01:27:44,800
Speaker 5: So it's different than what it used to be.

1721
01:27:45,280 --> 01:27:48,719
Speaker 6: I get that twelve thousand lames a year is seriously

1722
01:27:48,760 --> 01:27:50,920
Speaker 6: crazy to me, But if you have that sort of

1723
01:27:50,920 --> 01:27:54,479
Speaker 6: disagreement about rights versus life, then I understand so I

1724
01:27:55,040 --> 01:27:58,840
Speaker 6: get that. I just still it's very frustrating that the

1725
01:27:58,880 --> 01:28:01,800
Speaker 6: media kind of runs cover and pretends things like the

1726
01:28:01,840 --> 01:28:03,639
Speaker 6: Women's Health Protection Act didn't exist.

1727
01:28:03,720 --> 01:28:06,719
Speaker 4: Well, let's say you're president and the Democratic Congress comes

1728
01:28:06,720 --> 01:28:11,320
Speaker 4: to you and says, all right, that you won Farren Square,

1729
01:28:11,479 --> 01:28:15,960
Speaker 4: you're the president, this is what you believe. We'll give

1730
01:28:16,000 --> 01:28:20,599
Speaker 4: you a twenty week ban after twenty weeks if life, life,

1731
01:28:20,600 --> 01:28:23,200
Speaker 4: and health and physical health of the mother. There's exceptions,

1732
01:28:23,560 --> 01:28:25,719
Speaker 4: but no mental health exceptions after twenty weeks.

1733
01:28:27,920 --> 01:28:33,240
Speaker 3: But before twenty weeks abortion is legal. Would you sign that?

1734
01:28:33,640 --> 01:28:37,759
Speaker 6: Yeah, I would do like any compromise to end abortion

1735
01:28:37,840 --> 01:28:40,639
Speaker 6: after twenty weeks. And you know that's what is tough

1736
01:28:40,680 --> 01:28:42,280
Speaker 6: for the pro life movement. And I think it's actually

1737
01:28:42,320 --> 01:28:45,200
Speaker 6: an interesting they're interesting parallels with climate on the left

1738
01:28:45,280 --> 01:28:47,800
Speaker 6: that like incrementalism, as people talk about in the pro

1739
01:28:47,840 --> 01:28:50,760
Speaker 6: life movement is really controversial. And I think you saw

1740
01:28:50,920 --> 01:28:53,840
Speaker 6: Biden sort of face similar things with the Inflation Reduction Act.

1741
01:28:53,920 --> 01:28:57,560
Speaker 6: Like it's just if you see something as an absolute emergency,

1742
01:28:57,600 --> 01:29:00,160
Speaker 6: a political emergency, and there are good faith disagreements or

1743
01:29:00,160 --> 01:29:04,760
Speaker 6: politics about whether abortion or climate constitute these levels of emergency,

1744
01:29:04,840 --> 01:29:07,760
Speaker 6: it's like should we be blocking every freeway in the

1745
01:29:07,800 --> 01:29:09,240
Speaker 6: world if our kids aren't going to be able to

1746
01:29:09,240 --> 01:29:10,040
Speaker 6: breathe fresh air.

1747
01:29:10,520 --> 01:29:13,720
Speaker 4: Speaking of Biden's Inflation Reduction Act, yes, we're going to

1748
01:29:13,760 --> 01:29:18,240
Speaker 4: have the block that I teased ten minutes ago up now.

1749
01:29:18,479 --> 01:29:20,439
Speaker 4: Alex Lawson of sold Security Works is going to join

1750
01:29:20,479 --> 01:29:24,200
Speaker 4: us to talk about the long battle for fourteen sixteen

1751
01:29:24,280 --> 01:29:27,559
Speaker 4: year battle that's been going on to allow Medicare negotiation

1752
01:29:27,600 --> 01:29:29,280
Speaker 4: to negotiate drug prices.

1753
01:29:29,280 --> 01:29:32,080
Speaker 3: That's up next stick round.

1754
01:29:33,439 --> 01:29:37,479
Speaker 4: The Biden administration yesterday announced the ten medications that it

1755
01:29:37,560 --> 01:29:41,160
Speaker 4: is going to be allowing Medicare to negotiate drug prices

1756
01:29:41,160 --> 01:29:44,200
Speaker 4: over and we're joined here by Alex Lawson, who is

1757
01:29:44,360 --> 01:29:46,920
Speaker 4: the executive director of Solid Security Works, which as an

1758
01:29:47,000 --> 01:29:49,840
Speaker 4: organization been working on this issue trying to get the

1759
01:29:49,880 --> 01:29:53,360
Speaker 4: government to be able to negotiate drug prices for how

1760
01:29:53,400 --> 01:29:54,160
Speaker 4: many years.

1761
01:29:53,960 --> 01:29:59,120
Speaker 12: Now, really long time, you know, on drug prices for

1762
01:29:59,200 --> 01:30:01,840
Speaker 12: over a decade. We've been working in a variety of

1763
01:30:01,880 --> 01:30:07,240
Speaker 12: ways to push just any action that the government can

1764
01:30:07,280 --> 01:30:10,799
Speaker 12: take to lower prescription drug prices. We pay the highest

1765
01:30:10,800 --> 01:30:14,400
Speaker 12: in the world. Medicare negotiation is sort of the nicest

1766
01:30:14,920 --> 01:30:19,639
Speaker 12: one that we've pushed. It's the most obvious one. Medicare

1767
01:30:19,680 --> 01:30:23,080
Speaker 12: is the largest purchaser of prescription drugs in the world,

1768
01:30:23,720 --> 01:30:27,080
Speaker 12: and we are saying, just use that purchasing power to

1769
01:30:27,240 --> 01:30:32,200
Speaker 12: negotiate a better deal than paying the highest prices.

1770
01:30:31,800 --> 01:30:32,320
Speaker 8: In the world.

1771
01:30:32,760 --> 01:30:36,160
Speaker 4: And this has been a Democratic priority at least since

1772
01:30:36,479 --> 01:30:39,000
Speaker 4: I say priority in quotes, because they say that they

1773
01:30:39,040 --> 01:30:41,000
Speaker 4: wanted to do it, at least since two thousand and

1774
01:30:41,040 --> 01:30:45,679
Speaker 4: six when Ram Emmanuel had this super clever campaign strategy

1775
01:30:45,720 --> 01:30:48,679
Speaker 4: as the d TRIPC Chairmany called it six for six

1776
01:30:49,520 --> 01:30:51,799
Speaker 4: and one of the six was we're going to negotiate

1777
01:30:51,880 --> 01:30:52,479
Speaker 4: drug prices.

1778
01:30:52,520 --> 01:30:54,960
Speaker 3: Then, as Alex remembers.

1779
01:30:54,920 --> 01:30:56,839
Speaker 4: In two thousand and nine, when they finally got a majority,

1780
01:30:57,160 --> 01:31:00,080
Speaker 4: first thing they did is promise big Pharma. Okay, not

1781
01:31:00,200 --> 01:31:02,120
Speaker 4: actually do that, because it's not O six anymore.

1782
01:31:02,520 --> 01:31:03,120
Speaker 3: It's so nine.

1783
01:31:03,240 --> 01:31:05,320
Speaker 5: That was very specific to six.

1784
01:31:05,520 --> 01:31:09,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, six, We're going to do it. Oh oh nine. No, no, no, no, nine,

1785
01:31:09,560 --> 01:31:10,120
Speaker 3: not this time.

1786
01:31:10,880 --> 01:31:14,000
Speaker 4: And so they said, if big Farmer will support us,

1787
01:31:14,120 --> 01:31:16,400
Speaker 4: spend one hundred and fifty million dollars defending us in

1788
01:31:16,479 --> 01:31:21,839
Speaker 4: reelections and not opposed Obamacare, we will not include prescription

1789
01:31:21,960 --> 01:31:23,360
Speaker 4: drug negotiations in there.

1790
01:31:23,560 --> 01:31:24,879
Speaker 3: So then they lose their majority.

1791
01:31:24,920 --> 01:31:28,160
Speaker 4: So then what happens after that in this fight between

1792
01:31:28,680 --> 01:31:32,160
Speaker 4: big pharma and advocates saying like this is insane what

1793
01:31:32,200 --> 01:31:32,679
Speaker 4: we're paying.

1794
01:31:33,240 --> 01:31:37,120
Speaker 12: Yeah, I think a lot of work just continues happening

1795
01:31:37,160 --> 01:31:40,200
Speaker 12: the whole time. But the deal that was cut with

1796
01:31:40,240 --> 01:31:42,479
Speaker 12: pharma that has to be one of the worst deals

1797
01:31:42,479 --> 01:31:45,720
Speaker 12: that's ever been. One hundred and fifty million dollars is

1798
01:31:45,840 --> 01:31:48,400
Speaker 12: literally nothing to these companies.

1799
01:31:48,520 --> 01:31:51,360
Speaker 3: So but you know, all the companies together just had

1800
01:31:51,360 --> 01:31:51,920
Speaker 3: to pay that.

1801
01:31:52,080 --> 01:31:52,719
Speaker 8: Which is nothing.

1802
01:31:52,800 --> 01:31:56,040
Speaker 12: I mean that's like one hour of one day of

1803
01:31:56,160 --> 01:31:59,760
Speaker 12: profit of some of these drugs. So great deal for them,

1804
01:32:00,000 --> 01:32:03,240
Speaker 12: really bad deal for the American people. Expansion of Medicaid

1805
01:32:03,280 --> 01:32:05,599
Speaker 12: is great, if you want to think of it that way,

1806
01:32:06,200 --> 01:32:09,840
Speaker 12: but we didn't have action on prescription drugs through the

1807
01:32:10,360 --> 01:32:14,879
Speaker 12: basically the entirety of the Obama administration. Now Hillary Clinton

1808
01:32:15,760 --> 01:32:20,479
Speaker 12: had a robust plan to come after pharma six for

1809
01:32:20,600 --> 01:32:24,719
Speaker 12: sixteen it something like that, but it was real and

1810
01:32:25,320 --> 01:32:28,880
Speaker 12: at the time, insurers were lining up to punch pharma.

1811
01:32:29,000 --> 01:32:31,360
Speaker 8: That's always they always fight each other.

1812
01:32:31,520 --> 01:32:34,280
Speaker 3: It's nice when you can have industries against each other.

1813
01:32:34,160 --> 01:32:37,960
Speaker 12: Which is what that first Obamacare pharma deal was about.

1814
01:32:38,120 --> 01:32:41,679
Speaker 12: It was taking on insurance and not pharma. The correct

1815
01:32:41,720 --> 01:32:43,240
Speaker 12: way to do it, if you're wondering, is you take

1816
01:32:43,280 --> 01:32:45,600
Speaker 12: them all on at the same time. You can't actually

1817
01:32:46,840 --> 01:32:49,680
Speaker 12: think that one of them is going to be on

1818
01:32:49,720 --> 01:32:50,240
Speaker 12: your side.

1819
01:32:50,680 --> 01:32:52,880
Speaker 8: But along the way, you know, there are a lot

1820
01:32:52,920 --> 01:32:53,479
Speaker 8: of victories.

1821
01:32:53,520 --> 01:32:59,200
Speaker 12: You have to move policies slowly but losing the ability

1822
01:32:59,240 --> 01:33:03,720
Speaker 12: to charge as much as the company wants. Right, with

1823
01:33:03,880 --> 01:33:06,840
Speaker 12: no basis in anything, it doesn't have to have show

1824
01:33:06,880 --> 01:33:11,160
Speaker 12: any clinical value. Companies can actually just push poison right,

1825
01:33:11,200 --> 01:33:15,360
Speaker 12: they'll corrupt the process. You know, the FDA under Janet

1826
01:33:15,360 --> 01:33:18,800
Speaker 12: Woodcock get a special seal that says this heroin is

1827
01:33:18,840 --> 01:33:22,479
Speaker 12: not addictive, and then bang, you have the overdose crisis.

1828
01:33:22,560 --> 01:33:22,720
Speaker 8: Right.

1829
01:33:22,800 --> 01:33:26,559
Speaker 12: So that's the caliber of sociopathy that you're dealing with

1830
01:33:26,560 --> 01:33:31,280
Speaker 12: with these corporations, and so you have to be able

1831
01:33:31,320 --> 01:33:34,639
Speaker 12: to hit them from any angle. There is a lot

1832
01:33:34,640 --> 01:33:39,599
Speaker 12: of work on importation, which it makes absolutely yeah, well

1833
01:33:39,600 --> 01:33:43,080
Speaker 12: from anywhere that has it's called parallel importation.

1834
01:33:43,200 --> 01:33:44,759
Speaker 8: A lot of stuff is from Canada.

1835
01:33:45,080 --> 01:33:47,479
Speaker 12: But Canada has the second highest drug prices in the

1836
01:33:47,479 --> 01:33:50,320
Speaker 12: world because they're right next to America, so pharma just

1837
01:33:50,439 --> 01:33:53,840
Speaker 12: jacks up their prices as well. The truth is that

1838
01:33:53,920 --> 01:33:58,280
Speaker 12: these molecules are the same right, it's one factory, and

1839
01:33:58,320 --> 01:34:01,800
Speaker 12: if it sends it to America, like charge them, you know,

1840
01:34:02,320 --> 01:34:05,280
Speaker 12: as much as humanly possible. And if it goes to

1841
01:34:05,320 --> 01:34:09,400
Speaker 12: another country that has a government that actually says, well,

1842
01:34:09,439 --> 01:34:14,200
Speaker 12: what's the therapeutic value of this, Let's actually figure out

1843
01:34:14,200 --> 01:34:17,679
Speaker 12: what the value of this medication is, and that's what

1844
01:34:17,720 --> 01:34:20,840
Speaker 12: we're going to pay. And pharma, you know, hates that.

1845
01:34:20,880 --> 01:34:23,479
Speaker 12: They're like, no, no, no, we would rather just charge

1846
01:34:23,479 --> 01:34:26,840
Speaker 12: whatever we want. And in the case of insulin, and

1847
01:34:26,840 --> 01:34:29,959
Speaker 12: this is it's not just insulin, but at least an insulin,

1848
01:34:30,439 --> 01:34:32,920
Speaker 12: the price they're going for is a price that's so

1849
01:34:33,200 --> 01:34:37,280
Speaker 12: high that some people die, right, not everybody, because that

1850
01:34:37,320 --> 01:34:41,840
Speaker 12: would kill their market, but they want some people to

1851
01:34:42,000 --> 01:34:46,200
Speaker 12: die so that everyone else is terrified enough that they'll

1852
01:34:46,360 --> 01:34:49,400
Speaker 12: spend every dollar they have and every dollar that they

1853
01:34:49,439 --> 01:34:52,280
Speaker 12: can borrow to keep them or their loved ones alive.

1854
01:34:53,200 --> 01:34:54,200
Speaker 8: That's a cartel.

1855
01:34:54,600 --> 01:34:59,280
Speaker 12: That's extortion, and that is what we needed to break

1856
01:34:59,720 --> 01:35:04,200
Speaker 12: in any way possible. And Medicare negotiation was the one

1857
01:35:04,520 --> 01:35:07,880
Speaker 12: that had the most political sort of buy in from people,

1858
01:35:08,400 --> 01:35:11,040
Speaker 12: as you said, all the going all the way back

1859
01:35:11,560 --> 01:35:14,120
Speaker 12: to when it was created. There were a lot of

1860
01:35:14,200 --> 01:35:18,439
Speaker 12: Democrats at the time, this corrupt carve out for pharma

1861
01:35:18,640 --> 01:35:22,920
Speaker 12: was created by Billy Tousen, which is like in this town,

1862
01:35:22,920 --> 01:35:25,320
Speaker 12: I would say it's probably the most corrupt story that

1863
01:35:25,400 --> 01:35:28,559
Speaker 12: exists is the creation of the non interference clause.

1864
01:35:28,640 --> 01:35:30,360
Speaker 3: Tell the Billy towsand story real quick.

1865
01:35:30,520 --> 01:35:32,560
Speaker 8: Billy towsand Democrat turned Republicans.

1866
01:35:33,160 --> 01:35:36,160
Speaker 12: He came to Congress with one goal, which was to

1867
01:35:36,200 --> 01:35:39,120
Speaker 12: deliver for pharma. He was a Democrat. He rose to

1868
01:35:39,120 --> 01:35:42,040
Speaker 12: be committee chair where this was advancing. When the Democrats

1869
01:35:42,040 --> 01:35:44,800
Speaker 12: lost power, he just switched parties so he could keep

1870
01:35:44,880 --> 01:35:49,600
Speaker 12: that committee position, insert the non interference clause which forbids

1871
01:35:49,840 --> 01:35:53,600
Speaker 12: medicare from negotiating. Literally as soon as he did that,

1872
01:35:53,960 --> 01:35:56,240
Speaker 12: he just quit Congress and he went and took a

1873
01:35:56,280 --> 01:35:58,639
Speaker 12: two million dollars a year job at Pharma, I mean.

1874
01:35:58,680 --> 01:36:00,639
Speaker 3: The head of of Big Pharma, the head of.

1875
01:36:00,600 --> 01:36:03,360
Speaker 12: The lobbyist organization. I mean, it is as clear as

1876
01:36:03,520 --> 01:36:09,040
Speaker 12: day this one. So even since then, Democrats, some Democrats,

1877
01:36:09,120 --> 01:36:11,880
Speaker 12: many Democrats have known that this is something that needed

1878
01:36:11,880 --> 01:36:17,360
Speaker 12: to be overturned. There was a lot of negotiating and

1879
01:36:18,080 --> 01:36:21,360
Speaker 12: just sort of back and forth about what the policy

1880
01:36:21,360 --> 01:36:24,840
Speaker 12: itself would look like. And I don't want to go

1881
01:36:25,080 --> 01:36:28,360
Speaker 12: like too far into the policy weeds. But if you remember,

1882
01:36:28,360 --> 01:36:32,080
Speaker 12: the House passed a bill called HR three, and if

1883
01:36:32,120 --> 01:36:34,240
Speaker 12: you look at the battle during that, you can see

1884
01:36:34,280 --> 01:36:37,559
Speaker 12: sort of the contours of in the Democratic Party of

1885
01:36:37,640 --> 01:36:40,680
Speaker 12: what this policy was going to be. And basically it

1886
01:36:40,720 --> 01:36:44,160
Speaker 12: comes down to like weaker or stronger, and HR three

1887
01:36:44,280 --> 01:36:47,840
Speaker 12: is quite strong. You know, I think my side won

1888
01:36:47,960 --> 01:36:51,920
Speaker 12: more and HR three would be the starting point in

1889
01:36:52,000 --> 01:36:56,200
Speaker 12: build back better. That sort of compromises down to what

1890
01:36:56,360 --> 01:37:02,000
Speaker 12: actually got passed. And you had some pharmadem deliver some

1891
01:37:02,080 --> 01:37:08,720
Speaker 12: really key kneecapping for pharma and because of that, you know,

1892
01:37:08,800 --> 01:37:11,599
Speaker 12: we don't have all drugs, We only have some drugs.

1893
01:37:11,600 --> 01:37:12,960
Speaker 8: It doesn't start right away.

1894
01:37:13,680 --> 01:37:20,240
Speaker 12: So pharma is an incredible opponent to have because they

1895
01:37:20,280 --> 01:37:24,920
Speaker 12: have almost unlimited money and their entire profit comes from

1896
01:37:24,960 --> 01:37:28,840
Speaker 12: controlling the government. If the government didn't give them the

1897
01:37:28,920 --> 01:37:33,080
Speaker 12: ability to charge whatever they wanted, they would not be

1898
01:37:33,120 --> 01:37:33,800
Speaker 12: able to do it.

1899
01:37:33,840 --> 01:37:36,439
Speaker 6: Well, it's crony capitalism at its finest, as you just

1900
01:37:36,520 --> 01:37:39,479
Speaker 6: explained perfectly. And I want to ask about this quote

1901
01:37:39,520 --> 01:37:41,200
Speaker 6: you have in Ryan's story and we can put that

1902
01:37:41,240 --> 01:37:41,960
Speaker 6: back up on the screen.

1903
01:37:42,040 --> 01:37:43,080
Speaker 5: Ryan did a great report on this.

1904
01:37:43,160 --> 01:37:46,200
Speaker 6: In the intercept you say this was an unexpected victory

1905
01:37:46,280 --> 01:37:48,679
Speaker 6: and a long fight against an illegal cartel of three

1906
01:37:48,680 --> 01:37:51,479
Speaker 6: corporations who have raised their insulin prices in lockstep. You're

1907
01:37:51,520 --> 01:37:54,640
Speaker 6: referring there to Eli, Lilly, No, NORDESK, and Santafe. And

1908
01:37:54,680 --> 01:37:57,360
Speaker 6: then you continue to say the inclusion of insulin in

1909
01:37:57,400 --> 01:37:59,720
Speaker 6: the list of negotiated drugs shows that the Biden White

1910
01:37:59,760 --> 01:38:01,200
Speaker 6: House is it fucking around?

1911
01:38:02,320 --> 01:38:04,000
Speaker 5: Tell us more about what this.

1912
01:38:04,080 --> 01:38:06,120
Speaker 6: Says in terms of the Biden White House, because you

1913
01:38:06,160 --> 01:38:10,160
Speaker 6: just explained this. The arc of pharma's power in Washington,

1914
01:38:10,280 --> 01:38:14,040
Speaker 6: DC when it comes to controlling drug prices amazing. But

1915
01:38:14,040 --> 01:38:15,920
Speaker 6: it's also still this like push and pull, and you

1916
01:38:15,920 --> 01:38:18,719
Speaker 6: have people in the Biden administration who are actually tugging

1917
01:38:18,760 --> 01:38:20,360
Speaker 6: on the other side of the rope in this grand

1918
01:38:20,400 --> 01:38:22,600
Speaker 6: game of tug of war to the point where you

1919
01:38:22,680 --> 01:38:24,320
Speaker 6: have insulin included here.

1920
01:38:24,360 --> 01:38:25,000
Speaker 5: What does that mean?

1921
01:38:25,920 --> 01:38:29,240
Speaker 12: So the way I read it is that it reminds

1922
01:38:29,320 --> 01:38:34,679
Speaker 12: me of FDRs. I welcome their hatred line about banks

1923
01:38:34,680 --> 01:38:38,840
Speaker 12: and speculators. I believe that the Biden White House, the

1924
01:38:39,640 --> 01:38:43,200
Speaker 12: people in the Biden White House who they realize that

1925
01:38:43,520 --> 01:38:45,800
Speaker 12: if you're going to go after pharma, you got to

1926
01:38:45,840 --> 01:38:48,800
Speaker 12: go as hard as possible. You can't be like, oh,

1927
01:38:48,800 --> 01:38:51,080
Speaker 12: well they're going to run ads against me, maybe I'll

1928
01:38:51,120 --> 01:38:52,880
Speaker 12: do less. They're going to run ads against you if

1929
01:38:52,920 --> 01:38:57,040
Speaker 12: you even mention their name. But the thing is everyone

1930
01:38:57,120 --> 01:39:01,400
Speaker 12: hates Pharma. Pharma is the most hate did institution in

1931
01:39:01,479 --> 01:39:04,880
Speaker 12: this country. According to that pupil that you know, ranks

1932
01:39:04,920 --> 01:39:09,200
Speaker 12: all the institutions, Pharma is dead last. So pick the

1933
01:39:09,200 --> 01:39:13,080
Speaker 12: fight with Pharma. Be very aggressive. Of course they're going

1934
01:39:13,160 --> 01:39:15,840
Speaker 12: to say, oh, you can never win in court and

1935
01:39:15,960 --> 01:39:17,320
Speaker 12: all of the things that they're going to say.

1936
01:39:17,320 --> 01:39:20,320
Speaker 8: They also said that we'd never get it passed. The

1937
01:39:20,400 --> 01:39:21,400
Speaker 8: IRA passed.

1938
01:39:21,560 --> 01:39:24,920
Speaker 12: They did everything they could, and you know, I have

1939
01:39:25,080 --> 01:39:28,320
Speaker 12: that begrudging respect that you should have for your opponents.

1940
01:39:28,880 --> 01:39:31,439
Speaker 12: We didn't see some of their maneuvers coming. We didn't

1941
01:39:31,439 --> 01:39:34,639
Speaker 12: see some of the committee plays where they did decap

1942
01:39:34,720 --> 01:39:35,080
Speaker 12: the bill.

1943
01:39:35,360 --> 01:39:37,800
Speaker 8: They threw everything they can at this.

1944
01:39:38,640 --> 01:39:42,320
Speaker 12: But the Biden White House and Democrats in Congress understand

1945
01:39:42,439 --> 01:39:47,719
Speaker 12: that this issue a it's morally correct, right, this literally

1946
01:39:47,840 --> 01:39:55,000
Speaker 12: helps people, it's incredibly important. But then politically it sells everywhere.

1947
01:39:55,080 --> 01:39:57,920
Speaker 12: It does not matter in this country where you go,

1948
01:39:58,240 --> 01:40:00,439
Speaker 12: if it is a room full of camo and ra

1949
01:40:00,680 --> 01:40:02,080
Speaker 12: hats or a parking lot.

1950
01:40:01,880 --> 01:40:04,000
Speaker 8: Full of electric vehicles.

1951
01:40:04,240 --> 01:40:08,320
Speaker 12: The people all hate pharma, they hate high drug prices,

1952
01:40:08,360 --> 01:40:12,000
Speaker 12: they hate getting ripped off. And the really amazing thing

1953
01:40:12,080 --> 01:40:15,680
Speaker 12: is most Americans don't even know how ripped off we're

1954
01:40:15,720 --> 01:40:18,519
Speaker 12: getting because they don't fully get that we pay to

1955
01:40:18,600 --> 01:40:21,799
Speaker 12: develop the drugs in the first place. It's taxpayer dollars

1956
01:40:22,160 --> 01:40:25,639
Speaker 12: that develop these drugs at the NIH, and we give

1957
01:40:25,720 --> 01:40:30,440
Speaker 12: grants out to research facilities in universities.

1958
01:40:30,400 --> 01:40:31,800
Speaker 8: That we pay for it.

1959
01:40:32,360 --> 01:40:35,479
Speaker 12: Then we give the patent to these companies who turn

1960
01:40:35,520 --> 01:40:39,400
Speaker 12: around and charge us whatever they want. The ripoff is

1961
01:40:39,520 --> 01:40:44,920
Speaker 12: so amazing, so profound that it's hard to imagine. But

1962
01:40:45,080 --> 01:40:48,720
Speaker 12: just I think another thing in DC that is important

1963
01:40:48,880 --> 01:40:51,559
Speaker 12: is it's also so big that when you stop it,

1964
01:40:51,680 --> 01:40:52,160
Speaker 12: you can.

1965
01:40:52,120 --> 01:40:53,759
Speaker 8: Use it to pay for other things.

1966
01:40:54,040 --> 01:40:58,040
Speaker 12: There's so much money in stopping this ripoff that you

1967
01:40:58,080 --> 01:41:01,559
Speaker 12: can pay for enorm miss other things with it.

1968
01:41:01,640 --> 01:41:03,120
Speaker 8: You're like, oh, how are we going to pay for that?

1969
01:41:03,160 --> 01:41:05,000
Speaker 12: Well, let's just stop getting ripped off by FARMA, And

1970
01:41:05,040 --> 01:41:06,880
Speaker 12: everyone's like, hey, that's a great idea, let's do it.

1971
01:41:07,680 --> 01:41:12,080
Speaker 12: That creates this one way street. In my estimation, it's

1972
01:41:12,120 --> 01:41:15,320
Speaker 12: going to be really hard for FARMA to turn around.

1973
01:41:15,800 --> 01:41:19,439
Speaker 4: And That's why Pharma's strategy, as I understood it during

1974
01:41:19,560 --> 01:41:22,080
Speaker 4: Build Back Better, was not to try to take their

1975
01:41:22,120 --> 01:41:24,840
Speaker 4: piece out of it. They just tried to destroy the

1976
01:41:24,840 --> 01:41:29,840
Speaker 4: whole thing because they reasoned that if anything passes, they're

1977
01:41:29,880 --> 01:41:32,760
Speaker 4: going to be part of it because they can raise

1978
01:41:32,800 --> 01:41:35,960
Speaker 4: somewhere between one hundred to five hundred billion dollars their

1979
01:41:36,040 --> 01:41:39,759
Speaker 4: little provision by not getting ripped off by Farma anymore.

1980
01:41:40,000 --> 01:41:41,960
Speaker 3: So anything that went through it was going to have them.

1981
01:41:42,000 --> 01:41:45,720
Speaker 4: Whereas if you're the carried interest loophole guys who are

1982
01:41:45,920 --> 01:41:49,400
Speaker 4: with private equity, like you can go to Cinema and

1983
01:41:49,400 --> 01:41:51,599
Speaker 4: say get us out of there, and she'd be like, okay,

1984
01:41:51,800 --> 01:41:54,640
Speaker 4: because that's only maybe fifty billion dollars or something, and

1985
01:41:54,640 --> 01:41:56,559
Speaker 4: then she was all right, fine, cinema wants it.

1986
01:41:56,560 --> 01:41:57,800
Speaker 3: Out, we'll take that out.

1987
01:41:58,000 --> 01:41:59,599
Speaker 4: But there's so much money in format that they had

1988
01:41:59,600 --> 01:42:02,040
Speaker 4: to stop the whole thing, and briefly it looked like

1989
01:42:02,080 --> 01:42:04,760
Speaker 4: they succeeded. It looked like they had taken down the

1990
01:42:04,960 --> 01:42:07,520
Speaker 4: entire kind of Biden agenda.

1991
01:42:07,680 --> 01:42:10,080
Speaker 6: Legislatively, they had to work really hard to get Joe

1992
01:42:10,080 --> 01:42:11,120
Speaker 6: Manchin's phone number.

1993
01:42:10,960 --> 01:42:13,000
Speaker 4: Right and until until Mansion came back and kind of

1994
01:42:13,000 --> 01:42:16,080
Speaker 4: rescued it at the very end, which what happened there

1995
01:42:16,120 --> 01:42:20,000
Speaker 4: like a obviously West Virginia filled with old people who

1996
01:42:20,000 --> 01:42:21,400
Speaker 4: don't like paying high drug prices.

1997
01:42:21,640 --> 01:42:22,800
Speaker 3: Mansion is a good politician.

1998
01:42:23,760 --> 01:42:28,880
Speaker 4: Why why did Manson agree to do something that hurt pharma?

1999
01:42:29,000 --> 01:42:31,519
Speaker 12: In your estimation, Oh, you're gonna get me in trouble

2000
01:42:31,600 --> 01:42:35,519
Speaker 12: here now. It's because Joe Manchin is not terrible on pharma.

2001
01:42:35,560 --> 01:42:38,120
Speaker 12: I mean, that's just the truth. When we were pushing

2002
01:42:38,320 --> 01:42:41,559
Speaker 12: for Janet Woodcocks to removal, for her not to be

2003
01:42:41,720 --> 01:42:45,479
Speaker 12: confirmed at the FDA, it was in partnership with Joe Manchin.

2004
01:42:47,080 --> 01:42:50,840
Speaker 4: Is he just not bought by that industry held oil?

2005
01:42:51,000 --> 01:42:51,439
Speaker 8: Right?

2006
01:42:51,479 --> 01:42:55,680
Speaker 12: So he but he in his worldview, he understands that

2007
01:42:55,760 --> 01:42:59,360
Speaker 12: West Virginians are hurting, you know, like and and literally

2008
01:42:59,400 --> 01:43:04,160
Speaker 12: hurting early hurting, and Pharma is not his people. So

2009
01:43:05,320 --> 01:43:09,080
Speaker 12: I you know, that's my estimation of Joe Manchin on

2010
01:43:09,120 --> 01:43:12,280
Speaker 12: this is that he is not uh, you know, a

2011
01:43:12,280 --> 01:43:16,200
Speaker 12: pharmadem I use that you know, like there there are

2012
01:43:16,320 --> 01:43:20,920
Speaker 12: definitely uh Democrats who sing who dance to the tune

2013
01:43:20,960 --> 01:43:24,680
Speaker 12: that pharma calls, and he's he's not one of them.

2014
01:43:25,080 --> 01:43:29,000
Speaker 4: And so what what can by the bide administration still

2015
01:43:29,000 --> 01:43:32,200
Speaker 4: do sorry Sang sang the song of Joy for what

2016
01:43:32,240 --> 01:43:32,760
Speaker 4: they did do.

2017
01:43:33,640 --> 01:43:35,320
Speaker 3: When you know, I hear.

2018
01:43:35,479 --> 01:43:37,559
Speaker 4: Talk of march in rights, which is, you know, when

2019
01:43:37,720 --> 01:43:39,920
Speaker 4: if we helped fund a thing, you can march in

2020
01:43:39,960 --> 01:43:42,160
Speaker 4: and sell this is what you can charge for. There's

2021
01:43:42,200 --> 01:43:45,720
Speaker 4: international price setting that we can do. There's other executive action,

2022
01:43:45,800 --> 01:43:47,440
Speaker 4: there's legislation at the state.

2023
01:43:47,240 --> 01:43:48,719
Speaker 3: Level that could have an impact.

2024
01:43:48,960 --> 01:43:51,720
Speaker 4: So what what could still happen and what has the

2025
01:43:51,720 --> 01:43:53,360
Speaker 4: Biden administration kind of left on the table.

2026
01:43:54,160 --> 01:43:56,519
Speaker 8: There's an enormous amount that can still happen.

2027
01:43:56,560 --> 01:43:59,000
Speaker 12: I'll sort of you have to rain me and I'm

2028
01:43:59,040 --> 01:44:01,640
Speaker 12: a nerd, so but I'll start. I think one of

2029
01:44:01,680 --> 01:44:04,680
Speaker 12: the most exciting things is Governor Gavin Newsom in California

2030
01:44:04,760 --> 01:44:09,120
Speaker 12: is actually making big strides on public manufacturing. So he's

2031
01:44:09,160 --> 01:44:14,000
Speaker 12: bringing online public manufacturing of insulin with an eye towards

2032
01:44:14,000 --> 01:44:19,599
Speaker 12: public manufacturing of anything. For example, the FDA keeps this list.

2033
01:44:19,640 --> 01:44:22,760
Speaker 12: It's the shortage list. Right, everyone's heard of the drug shortage.

2034
01:44:23,000 --> 01:44:26,120
Speaker 12: It's just getting worse. A lot of stuff is written

2035
01:44:26,120 --> 01:44:29,360
Speaker 12: about the adderall drug shortage. I think that's because a

2036
01:44:29,360 --> 01:44:32,200
Speaker 12: lot of journalists need adderall.

2037
01:44:33,280 --> 01:44:33,719
Speaker 8: Adderall.

2038
01:44:34,040 --> 01:44:35,720
Speaker 12: So it's getting a lot of limelight. But this is

2039
01:44:35,760 --> 01:44:38,599
Speaker 12: an old issue and a lot of the drugs are cancer,

2040
01:44:38,760 --> 01:44:42,080
Speaker 12: are chemo drugs, these are this is classic market failure.

2041
01:44:42,120 --> 01:44:45,000
Speaker 12: So these are generic drugs. They're not hard to produce.

2042
01:44:45,280 --> 01:44:48,519
Speaker 12: The market hasn't failed in other countries just here. This

2043
01:44:48,680 --> 01:44:52,479
Speaker 12: is a total prime the pump type thing. And so

2044
01:44:52,920 --> 01:44:55,400
Speaker 12: instead of just keeping a list of the drug shortages,

2045
01:44:55,439 --> 01:44:57,720
Speaker 12: the FDA could just end the shortages.

2046
01:44:57,800 --> 01:44:57,960
Speaker 8: Right.

2047
01:44:58,040 --> 01:45:00,719
Speaker 12: They're like, I identify it. We we need four hundred

2048
01:45:00,760 --> 01:45:02,800
Speaker 12: thousand units of that drug. Okay, well I'm going to

2049
01:45:02,840 --> 01:45:05,040
Speaker 12: purchase four hundred thousand units of that drug.

2050
01:45:05,280 --> 01:45:06,799
Speaker 8: Boom, the shortage is done.

2051
01:45:07,320 --> 01:45:12,160
Speaker 12: Gavin Newsom's work in California is showing one path towards

2052
01:45:12,160 --> 01:45:14,880
Speaker 12: doing that. The federal government could do a lot to

2053
01:45:14,920 --> 01:45:18,280
Speaker 12: make that easier for Gavin Newsom and to create a

2054
01:45:18,439 --> 01:45:22,719
Speaker 12: marketplace amongst the states to use those publicly manufactured drugs

2055
01:45:22,720 --> 01:45:25,479
Speaker 12: from California. So that's something that I think is not

2056
01:45:25,520 --> 01:45:27,960
Speaker 12: widely talked about, but it has a lot of potential.

2057
01:45:28,520 --> 01:45:31,160
Speaker 8: Importation again is a huge one.

2058
01:45:31,760 --> 01:45:36,280
Speaker 12: States are importing drugs through the so called personal importation loophole.

2059
01:45:36,840 --> 01:45:39,719
Speaker 12: The loophole is so old now that it's just settled law.

2060
01:45:41,120 --> 01:45:44,639
Speaker 12: We should actually work on that and make it settled law.

2061
01:45:45,040 --> 01:45:46,720
Speaker 12: And one of the things is you could have a

2062
01:45:46,760 --> 01:45:50,040
Speaker 12: lot of policies done at the federal level that would

2063
01:45:50,120 --> 01:45:53,520
Speaker 12: incentivize states to import their drugs.

2064
01:45:53,560 --> 01:45:54,040
Speaker 8: This is one.

2065
01:45:54,120 --> 01:45:58,479
Speaker 12: This is also super nonpartisan. Colorado and Florida are the

2066
01:45:58,520 --> 01:46:01,320
Speaker 12: two that are taking the lead on this. There are

2067
01:46:01,600 --> 01:46:05,240
Speaker 12: enormous costs faced by the states for their workforce. Let

2068
01:46:05,280 --> 01:46:09,120
Speaker 12: them buy their drugs the exact same drugs from a

2069
01:46:09,200 --> 01:46:12,360
Speaker 12: country where it's cheaper. You have all fifty states doing that,

2070
01:46:12,479 --> 01:46:16,719
Speaker 12: and then you know it's a national policy. So there's those.

2071
01:46:17,240 --> 01:46:20,000
Speaker 12: There is also the federal use, which is something that

2072
01:46:20,040 --> 01:46:22,920
Speaker 12: you brought up with marching or just government use. The

2073
01:46:22,960 --> 01:46:27,559
Speaker 12: government does have the ability to say this privilege that

2074
01:46:27,600 --> 01:46:30,960
Speaker 12: you have to have a patent. That's a privilege, and

2075
01:46:31,000 --> 01:46:35,000
Speaker 12: if you abuse that privilege, you will lose that privilege

2076
01:46:35,479 --> 01:46:39,439
Speaker 12: and we will allow another manufacturer to produce that drug

2077
01:46:39,720 --> 01:46:40,960
Speaker 12: at a reasonable price.

2078
01:46:41,439 --> 01:46:43,760
Speaker 4: My dad actually texted me this morning because a drug

2079
01:46:43,800 --> 01:46:47,120
Speaker 4: he takes eloquist, it's a hip of violation on my part.

2080
01:46:47,120 --> 01:46:50,760
Speaker 3: I'm just sorry about that. That that's true. I can

2081
01:46:51,160 --> 01:46:52,920
Speaker 3: violate hip. Am I bound by HIPPA?

2082
01:46:53,000 --> 01:46:57,559
Speaker 12: No, you know, if your father gave you permission, then

2083
01:46:57,720 --> 01:46:58,200
Speaker 12: go with that.

2084
01:46:58,240 --> 01:46:59,479
Speaker 8: You're good to go.

2085
01:47:00,120 --> 01:47:01,800
Speaker 3: So you know that made the list.

2086
01:47:02,000 --> 01:47:04,320
Speaker 4: Now it's not until twenty twenty six that this goes

2087
01:47:04,479 --> 01:47:07,360
Speaker 4: into effect, correct, But the prices are so insane for

2088
01:47:07,400 --> 01:47:09,400
Speaker 4: these drugs. He had to get like a on a

2089
01:47:09,560 --> 01:47:13,320
Speaker 4: special like program that brings the prices down, but that

2090
01:47:13,360 --> 01:47:14,200
Speaker 4: costs money itself.

2091
01:47:14,240 --> 01:47:15,599
Speaker 3: It's just giant mess.

2092
01:47:15,640 --> 01:47:17,400
Speaker 4: If people want to know the rest of the drugs

2093
01:47:17,400 --> 01:47:19,520
Speaker 4: that are on the list, that can check my intercept

2094
01:47:19,520 --> 01:47:22,439
Speaker 4: story out. And also just to let people know, Alex

2095
01:47:22,520 --> 01:47:25,800
Speaker 4: Lawson I founded this publishing house many years ago called

2096
01:47:25,840 --> 01:47:29,160
Speaker 4: strong Arm Press, which published my book We've Got People

2097
01:47:29,800 --> 01:47:31,040
Speaker 4: back in twenty nineteen.

2098
01:47:31,439 --> 01:47:32,240
Speaker 3: So thank you to.

2099
01:47:32,280 --> 01:47:35,080
Speaker 4: Alex for that, which gives me an opportunity to plug

2100
01:47:35,160 --> 01:47:35,679
Speaker 4: my next one.

2101
01:47:36,560 --> 01:47:39,040
Speaker 3: So the next book is called Squad Such an Entrepreneur,

2102
01:47:39,120 --> 01:47:39,479
Speaker 3: There you go.

2103
01:47:39,640 --> 01:47:43,080
Speaker 4: Such a it's coming out at the in December, and

2104
01:47:43,120 --> 01:47:47,240
Speaker 4: it's about basically the left from like twenty fifteen, starting

2105
01:47:47,240 --> 01:47:50,639
Speaker 4: with Bernie up through Build Back Better and the IRA.

2106
01:47:51,040 --> 01:47:53,639
Speaker 4: And we'll put a link in the video here because

2107
01:47:53,680 --> 01:47:54,720
Speaker 4: the publishers getting.

2108
01:47:54,439 --> 01:47:55,240
Speaker 3: Out free stickers.

2109
01:47:55,360 --> 01:47:58,000
Speaker 4: WHOA, you'll get a free sticker if do is sign

2110
01:47:58,080 --> 01:47:58,920
Speaker 4: up for some thing.

2111
01:47:59,040 --> 01:47:59,720
Speaker 5: I'll put it right here.

2112
01:47:59,800 --> 01:48:02,599
Speaker 4: Yeah, I should put it. I got room right here

2113
01:48:02,640 --> 01:48:03,160
Speaker 4: for a sticker.

2114
01:48:03,240 --> 01:48:03,360
Speaker 5: Hi.

2115
01:48:03,880 --> 01:48:06,040
Speaker 6: Excellent, Alex, thank you so much for joining us.

2116
01:48:06,120 --> 01:48:06,920
Speaker 8: Thanks for having me.

2117
01:48:07,200 --> 01:48:08,240
Speaker 5: Well that does it for.

2118
01:48:08,200 --> 01:48:12,000
Speaker 6: Us on this edition of Counterpoints, our last edition of

2119
01:48:12,040 --> 01:48:12,400
Speaker 6: the summer.

2120
01:48:12,439 --> 01:48:13,799
Speaker 5: When we come back next week, it'll.

2121
01:48:13,640 --> 01:48:15,400
Speaker 3: Be post labor and I will be into the no

2122
01:48:15,439 --> 01:48:16,400
Speaker 3: more white.

2123
01:48:16,400 --> 01:48:18,320
Speaker 6: She had, no more white Ryan was not wearing his

2124
01:48:18,400 --> 01:48:19,080
Speaker 6: white pants.

2125
01:48:19,240 --> 01:48:19,639
Speaker 5: Is set.

2126
01:48:20,240 --> 01:48:22,479
Speaker 6: But in all seriousness, it's a big fall coming up.

2127
01:48:22,720 --> 01:48:24,639
Speaker 6: Probably looking at as we talked about earlier in the show,

2128
01:48:24,680 --> 01:48:28,240
Speaker 6: government shutdown. Probably looking at an impeachment inquiry, So all

2129
01:48:28,320 --> 01:48:30,599
Speaker 6: kinds of things going on. Four indictments against the former

2130
01:48:30,640 --> 01:48:34,559
Speaker 6: president and a presidential election, all of that and more

2131
01:48:34,720 --> 01:48:36,920
Speaker 6: coming to you on the other side of Labor Day.

2132
01:48:36,920 --> 01:48:37,840
Speaker 5: We'll be here to cover it all.

2133
01:48:37,920 --> 01:48:39,280
Speaker 3: I can't wait see as soon