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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 2: A production of iHeart Radio.

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Speaker 3: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 3: my name is Noah.

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Speaker 2: They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 2: super producer Paul. Mission control decads. Most importantly, you are you.

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Speaker 2: You are here. That makes this the stuff they don't

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Speaker 2: want you to know. You know, thinking about this evening's exploration, gentlemen,

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Speaker 2: we're kind of on a mission of preservation because we're

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Speaker 2: talking about a story that might fall away from the headlights.

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Speaker 2: It's no secret here in the US things have been

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Speaker 2: kind of embarrassing. You know, there's a political circus, doesn't

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Speaker 2: matter what side you're on. You know, everybody appears clownish.

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Speaker 2: They're bizarre rulings from the US Supreme Court. And in

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Speaker 2: all of this, there's a proven conspiracy that just went

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Speaker 2: public a few days ago, as we record.

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Speaker 4: That's right, the Pentagon ran a completely terrifying propaganda campaign

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Speaker 4: that actually killed innocent people.

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Speaker 3: Well well, hey, now, hey, now hello, that's a it's

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Speaker 3: a weird thing to say but it's true. But it's

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Speaker 3: it is right.

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Speaker 2: It's like we don't know. We know that it is

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Speaker 2: statistically likely, if but not certain to that point, not certain,

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Speaker 2: that innocent people died as a direct result. It is

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Speaker 2: overwhelmingly statistically likely that that is the case. It is

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Speaker 2: also impossible to prove right in terms of naming deathle

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Speaker 2: and individuals one by one. But the thing is, this

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Speaker 2: propaganda campaign was not intended to kill people. The idea

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Speaker 2: of killing people wasn't really part of the equation. It

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Speaker 2: was all the score points in the dirtiest and greatest

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Speaker 2: games controlling the world. And how far would you go

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Speaker 2: to accomplish that greater good?

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Speaker 5: What would you do for a Klondike bar?

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Speaker 2: Especially the Klondike bar was hegemony? Careful, fellow conspiracy realist,

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Speaker 2: We're going into the deep water tonight. Here are the facts.

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Speaker 2: All right, this might sound elementary, but I believe these

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Speaker 2: statistics are still mind boggling to the four of us, right,

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Speaker 2: and hopefully do you playing along at home? The US

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Speaker 2: Department of Defense, by any conceivable metric, is huge. It's

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Speaker 2: a kaiju. It's gargantuan. It is uh, just my invisible

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Speaker 2: mel Brooks tie too.

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Speaker 5: Big to fail. Absolutely true, and I believe it was.

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Speaker 4: At one point the had the dubious the honorific of

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Speaker 4: being the world's largest office building, which sounds like the

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Speaker 4: dullest you know, accolade one could bestow. But even that's

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Speaker 4: not true anymore because I think there's one in India

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Speaker 4: now that that's bigger.

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Speaker 2: The Surat Diamond Borse took the prize in twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: three up until from nineteen forty three up until last year,

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Speaker 2: as we record, You're absolutely right, the Department of Defense

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Speaker 2: was the world's largest office building. Such a is that

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Speaker 2: one of the most boring Guinness World records.

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Speaker 4: I mean, you know, I think i've I've I've made

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Speaker 4: my case or at least drawn my line in the

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Speaker 4: sand there.

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Speaker 3: It is kind of weird. And most office buildings the

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Speaker 3: people inside are making money for a corporation in the Pentagon,

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Speaker 3: They are just spending it.

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Speaker 2: That's a great point.

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Speaker 4: But to the ultimate end, to your point, Ben, of

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Speaker 4: that great klonduc bar in the sky or you know,

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Speaker 4: the argument politically speaking rhetorically is they're protecting us. They're

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Speaker 4: doing God's work in there, making sure that we as

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Speaker 4: American citizens are safe from those who would do us harm.

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Speaker 2: Every powerful group I have ever interacted with, at least

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Speaker 2: in my experience, has always said, or always maintained, the

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Speaker 2: world is chaotic and evil and dangerous, and the only

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Speaker 2: way for it to be safer is for someone to

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Speaker 2: be in charge. And surprise, the people who say that

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Speaker 2: always picture themselves as the person in charge or the entity.

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Speaker 2: So this place, you know, we often hear news about

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Speaker 2: the Pentagon, and when people are saying that, they're really

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Speaker 2: talking about the Department of Defense, it's called mentotomy. It's

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Speaker 2: the same way, you know, the reporters will say the

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Speaker 2: White House when they're talking about president.

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Speaker 5: Or xerox as a stand in for photo copy, you know.

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Speaker 2: Similar, Yeah, like an epnonymous, apotymous trademark. It's so it's

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Speaker 2: so stupid, cartoonishly big. It's like such an American idea.

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Speaker 2: And I don't say that as an insult. It's seven

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Speaker 2: story behemoth. It takes up more than six point six

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Speaker 2: million square feet just of office space just to people

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Speaker 2: walking around, as you said, Matt, spending a lot of

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Speaker 2: taxpayer money. And it has a new stat I found

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Speaker 2: it has sixty seven acres of just parking lots Wow,

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Speaker 2: how still not enough? How long would that take just to.

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Speaker 4: Traverse by foot? It's a lot of football fields. I

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Speaker 4: always find it interesting that the pentagon is in fact

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Speaker 4: shaped like a pentagon, you know, and the idea that

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Speaker 4: they're protecting us the pentacle or the pentagram you know,

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Speaker 4: is often lumped in with being like an image of

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Speaker 4: satanic demonic worship or whatever, but really, in WICCA and

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Speaker 4: various other belief systems, it is a protective sigil.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and this protective sigil has its human circulatory system

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Speaker 2: is somewhere north of twenty six thousand people in that

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Speaker 2: building on any given day, where there permanently on a

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Speaker 2: long term basis, twenty three thousand military and civilian employees

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Speaker 2: and then three thousand what they would call support personnel.

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Speaker 4: And that balance or at least in terms of like

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Speaker 4: how you know, safe they are in their jobs could

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Speaker 4: change if that program that we discussed in a recent

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Speaker 4: episode goes through and no longer are there these long

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Speaker 4: term bureaucratic positions that are you know, have stasis through

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Speaker 4: different administrations. There could be a whole new regime anytime

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Speaker 4: someone new comes into power that could flip flop and

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Speaker 4: no longer are we dealing with long term experts, but

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Speaker 4: we're dealing with people who are affiliated with political ideologies

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Speaker 4: filling those roles.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, probably just scary. I'm sorry, scary, Yeah, I agree.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the Pentagon as an idea is both awe

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Speaker 2: inspiring and terrifying. The DoD is an idea. This number,

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Speaker 2: this twenty six thousand dish also doesn't count the many,

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Speaker 2: many visitors who pass through on a daily basis, or

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Speaker 2: a weekly basis or quarterly basis. And look, if you

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Speaker 2: are a long time conspiracy realist, folks, you know well

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Speaker 2: that the Department of Defense has been accused of all

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Speaker 2: sorts of for being careful, let's say, unethical activities over

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Speaker 2: the years. Not necessarily illegal all the time, but definitely shenanigans, right,

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Speaker 2: And a lot of those accusations that were treated as

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Speaker 2: wild conspiracy theories were later proving correct when different things

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Speaker 2: got declassified, when journalists dug in, and when you know,

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Speaker 2: enough time it passed for individuals to not get in trouble.

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Speaker 4: Well, and with the bureaucracy of that size and all

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Speaker 4: of the secret programs various levels of classification, you have

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Speaker 4: programs within programs and ones that certain personnel aren't even

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Speaker 4: aware of, you know, up to the highest levels. So

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Speaker 4: many like wheels within wheels taking place within this building.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, when you think about the combination of different military

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Speaker 3: branches and operations that are kind of joint in nature,

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Speaker 3: and then if you imagine like the spaghetti that is

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Speaker 3: all of those special access programs that's been you need

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Speaker 3: a seven story building that's you know.

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Speaker 2: Giant, right, and uh it is. It is, no fooling folks,

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Speaker 2: And we checked right before we recorded this. Uh, the

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Speaker 2: Department of Defense is the largest single employer in the world,

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Speaker 2: which if we played with statistics, I guess technically that

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Speaker 2: would mean that if you picked a random person right

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Speaker 2: then they would most likely be working for the Department

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Speaker 2: of Defense.

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Speaker 3: That's crazy. Now, that doesn't include like, if you are

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Speaker 3: a member of let's say the Army, you are not

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Speaker 3: a part of the Department of Defense. That's a whole

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Speaker 3: separate thing.

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Speaker 2: Or there you're you're under it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, wow, okay, okay, that makes sense.

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Speaker 2: It's weird. It's like it's like how f x X

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Speaker 2: is part of FX, which is part of Fox.

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Speaker 5: Or HBO, Max Now Squared.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I still don't know I'm subscribed.

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Speaker 4: It is almost a parent company type flow chart situation

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Speaker 4: in an interesting way. And so as the commander in

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Speaker 4: chief is the president technically the big big boss over

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Speaker 4: the DoD or.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, because DoD is, DoD coordinates. It's an executive department,

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Speaker 2: so it's under the executive branch. It coordinates all the

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Speaker 2: agencies and functions of the US government related to national

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Speaker 2: security and the armed forces. That means over one point

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Speaker 2: three four million active duty service members, and that also

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Speaker 2: means almost a million, almost eight hundred thousand National Guard

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Speaker 2: and reservists, and then seven hundred and forty seven something

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Speaker 2: thousand civilians. So the total is over two point eighty

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Speaker 2: seven million employees.

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Speaker 3: Need we need a lot of tax dollars for all

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Speaker 3: those salaries.

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Speaker 4: And I'm sure there's a ton of folks that work

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Speaker 4: remotely as well, right like the Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Can you even imagine that outside of it?

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Speaker 3: I mean, you know, I'm trying to imagine the Department

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Speaker 3: of Defenses work from home policies.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean they're very well.

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Speaker 4: We did we did talk about how you know there

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Speaker 4: they had to I guess loosen their regulations on drug

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Speaker 4: policies because they couldn't get good enough hackers because they

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Speaker 4: wanted to be able to stay home and drink their

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Speaker 4: diet mountain dew and smoke their weed. So they had

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Speaker 4: to to some degree compromise with that.

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Speaker 2: Mm. Yeah, I mean that that is That is a

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Speaker 2: true story, folks, if you haven't heard it before. Most

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Speaker 2: of the good hackers are kind of fig.

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Speaker 5: They're in that floating you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they're microdosing for America.

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Speaker 5: I love dude.

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Speaker 4: That's a T shirt right there. Microdosing for America.

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Speaker 2: Officer. You have to look at the bigger picture here.

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Speaker 5: Uh so I'm not on drugs. I'm doing my page

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Speaker 5: periodic duty. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: We could keep throwing around statistics like this all evening.

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Speaker 2: We love bizarre statistics, but we're bringing all this up

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Speaker 2: to establish one key point. The size of the Department

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Speaker 2: of Defense or the Pentagon can be as much a

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Speaker 2: weakness as it is a strength. With so many things

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Speaker 2: happening all at once, everything everywhere, all at once, it

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Speaker 2: is normalized and expected that not everyone will know what

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Speaker 2: everyone else is doing. The right hand doesn't know the

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Speaker 2: actions of the left in a very real sense here,

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Speaker 2: and so the DoD literally cannot be a monolith. It

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Speaker 2: fights itself constantly, classification, like you said, secrecy, separated budgets,

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Speaker 2: the endless turf wars, the endless wars over budgets, and

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Speaker 2: just the size of the overall operation. It's not a

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Speaker 2: unified set of actors. It is not like two point

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Speaker 2: eighty seven million people all get in some big room

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Speaker 2: and then steeple their fingers and come up with a

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Speaker 2: super villain scheme.

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Speaker 4: I mean that may happen from time to time, but

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Speaker 4: it's usually a little more, you know, one of these

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Speaker 4: subgroups kind of situation. You did mention that they're the

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Speaker 4: largest employer.

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Speaker 2: In the world, right, Yes, that's it.

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Speaker 5: I didn't know that.

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Speaker 4: That is mind boggling. And to your point, Ben, seems

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Speaker 4: a little more like a weakness than a strength. How

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Speaker 4: much siloed stuff goes on and how you know, maybe

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Speaker 4: it's just spy movies and stuff, but how so often

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Speaker 4: this stuff seems to have the potential to go off

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Speaker 4: the rails without oversight.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we see this also, Not to pick on the

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Speaker 2: DoD just yet, but we see this in any large organization.

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Speaker 2: You know, there's an organization that has a unified goal.

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Speaker 2: In the case of the Department of Defense. The goal

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Speaker 2: is the projection of power to protect the United States

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Speaker 2: and the interest of the US overall. But the issue

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Speaker 2: is people disagree on how best to achieve that goal,

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Speaker 2: and they don't always talk through their strategies. We work

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Speaker 2: in a large media company, and you see similar things

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Speaker 2: in large media companies. Large any company, right who is

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Speaker 2: the number one manufacturer of sunglasses, for example, Luxotica. They

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Speaker 2: fight all the time, you know what I mean. There's

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Speaker 2: some guy who's coming home and he's just like punching

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Speaker 2: the wall or something about some ray band policy that

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Speaker 2: he disagrees with. The issue is in our sort of

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Speaker 2: echelon of companies, mission creep and contradictory strategies and mission fracture.

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Speaker 2: For us that leads to things like unnecessary zoom calls,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean. But for the departm Defense,

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Speaker 2: this means people can die.

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Speaker 4: Serious collateral damage, you know, no no question about it.

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Speaker 4: And to your point, Ben, you know, the larger the organization,

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Speaker 4: the more kind of broad the unilateral.

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Speaker 5: Sort of philosophy ends up being.

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Speaker 4: And then they're sort of within those subgroups we're talking

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Speaker 4: about different you know, philosophies and ideologies, and sometimes they

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Speaker 4: don't jibe with the big one, you know, it's it

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Speaker 4: gets real crazy, real quick.

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Speaker 2: What a beautiful point. You know what I'm thinking of

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Speaker 2: guys with that idea of like the larger the organization,

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Speaker 2: the simpler and more vague the philosophy. Google, he'll be evil,

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Speaker 2: he'll be evil, whatever that means to you.

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Speaker 4: And and and whether or not you think they've succeeded it,

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Speaker 4: you know or not?

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Speaker 5: Right?

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Speaker 2: I think they ditched that one, didn't they They ditched

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Speaker 2: that one.

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Speaker 4: It was a little too buzzy. It felt like it

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Speaker 4: was making too much news.

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Speaker 5: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Maybe maybe they did well. There's a world of difference,

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Speaker 2: as we said, between not being and being good.

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Speaker 5: Oh my goodness, very good point.

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Speaker 2: Well tonight, as we set this up, we want everybody

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Speaker 2: to travel into the past with us. It's twenty twenty.

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Speaker 2: The COVID pandemic is still in full swing. Spoiler, it's

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Speaker 2: still happening now. China and the United States are just

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Speaker 2: as beefed up then as they are today, maybe even

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Speaker 2: more so, because in twenty twenty, China is waging a

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Speaker 2: heavy information war to deny the origin of COVID, and

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Speaker 2: the US and China are going back and forth, trying

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Speaker 2: to discredit one another, trying to curry favor with other nations.

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Speaker 2: They're trying to scapegoat each other to win the race

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Speaker 2: for the most effective vaccine. So how far would factions

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Speaker 2: of the Pentagon go to accomplish these goals. We'll tell

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Speaker 2: you after a word from our sponsor. Here's where it

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Speaker 2: gets crazy. They went far. They went pretty far. I'll

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Speaker 2: be honest. They went much further than I thought they

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Speaker 2: would go.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and this comes to us via Reuters, a very

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Speaker 3: large investigation that they've been putting together for quite a while.

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Speaker 3: Two journalists Chris Bing and Joel Scheckman s ch E

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Speaker 3: C T M A N. They posted on June fourteenth

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Speaker 3: of this year, just a bombshell that I think is

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Speaker 3: rocking everybody. And they have been reaching out to the

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Speaker 3: DoD according to them, So it's not like they took

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Speaker 3: them by surprise when they wrote it or when they

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Speaker 3: published it.

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Speaker 5: At least.

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Speaker 3: There are probably a lot of people in that Pentagon

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Speaker 3: getting calls and they're going, guys, guys, guys, they know

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Speaker 3: about the thing, which thing though the thing is a

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Speaker 3: thing thing too?

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Speaker 5: What are we talking about a thing? Four?

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Speaker 2: I don't know four point they're read on to thing four.

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Speaker 5: Yes, we're screwed, evacuate.

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Speaker 3: This is a part of as Ben said right before

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Speaker 3: we went to break, there a huge back and forth

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Speaker 3: between China and the US about who made COVID, how

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Speaker 3: did COVID get out, what's the origins of it, who

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Speaker 3: is to blame basically, and then who has the answer

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Speaker 3: to COVID? Right, So, this was a clandestine program by

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Speaker 3: the United States military parts of the DoD to discredit

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Speaker 3: China's vaccine that they were trying to roll out that

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Speaker 3: was actually available to a wider public way before any

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Speaker 3: of the US made vaccines.

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Speaker 4: Well, and to your point then about this seeming to

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Speaker 4: not be top line news right now. Maybe that's because

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Speaker 4: of all the election stuff or whatever, But I think

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Speaker 4: we're all pretty keyed into this stuff, and I haven't

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Speaker 4: really seen much of this back and forth at all.

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Speaker 3: We can get into it, but I think a lot

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Speaker 3: of the back and forth ended up happening in these

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Speaker 3: small ways, Like from the US side, it was often

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Speaker 3: when then President d Trump would get up and make

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Speaker 3: a statement.

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Speaker 5: China the China flu or.

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Speaker 3: The flu, calling it the China virus. At least according

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Speaker 3: to a lot of sources was a move because there

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Speaker 3: were there were disinformation campaigns aimed at the United States.

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Speaker 4: And think about historical pandemics like the Spanish flu, like

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Speaker 4: that's what history ends up calling it.

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Speaker 5: There is at some point a war that get an

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Speaker 5: information war that.

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Speaker 4: Gets waged, and at some point one of those things

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Speaker 4: wins out and it doesn't just happen in a vacuum.

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Speaker 4: So I think this is a really interesting case of

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Speaker 4: seeing how that historical sausage is made. M hm.

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Speaker 2: The US just got caught running an anti vaccination campaign.

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Speaker 2: Oh geez, yeah, whose idea in particular? This is, you know,

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Speaker 2: while all the fauci stuff is going on, this is

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Speaker 2: happening while they're telling everybody in America to get vaccinated. Oh,

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Speaker 2: we'll get into it. It's spooky, spooky stuff. We don't

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Speaker 2: know who, which particular individuals, not to sound too idiocracy

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Speaker 2: about it, We don't know which particular individuals came up

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Speaker 2: with this idea. We do know that the majority of

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Speaker 2: active officials speaking to these journalists Matt mentioned, they remained anonymous.

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Speaker 2: We do know that this program, which has not been

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Speaker 2: publicly named, did appear weirdly bipartisan. It began under the

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump administration. It continued for months into the Biden administration,

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Speaker 2: even after social media executives some of the suits from

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Speaker 2: Facebook came to the government and said, Hey.

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Speaker 4: Some of the disinformation we're flagging this, We're pulling this

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Speaker 4: stuff from our platforms right as you.

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Speaker 2: Guys told us we should do that, and we shouldn't

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Speaker 2: encourage the spread of aganda like this. And they said,

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Speaker 2: I think the military fire back, and they were like, oh, yeah, totally, dog,

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Speaker 2: We'll get you. And you know, thanks for you know,

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Speaker 2: thanks for coming to us with it, you know, mono amano.

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Speaker 2: And then they just did they they continued to do it.

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Speaker 3: Can can you imagine being one of the lower level

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Speaker 3: employees at one of these social media companies looking at

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Speaker 3: you like you're filtering through messages some of them are

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Speaker 3: clearly anti vaccination campaigns that you've been warned against, just

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Speaker 3: like they're saying you you try and track down these users. Basically,

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Speaker 3: I guess you track down the users. I would think

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Speaker 3: you would just block the user or nerve their account somehow.

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Speaker 3: But they're tracking down these users and realizing, oh, hold on.

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Speaker 5: Hold up, well wouldn't they cover their tracks?

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Speaker 1: Though?

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Speaker 5: In a way right.

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Speaker 4: It would be harder for them to like peg it

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Speaker 4: directly to a government account quote unquote, these are like

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Speaker 4: lot accounts, right.

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Speaker 2: Yes, However, if you are, if you're working for the

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Speaker 2: organization for the platform, get a little working for the Twitter,

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Speaker 2: the Facebook, or the.

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Speaker 5: Little more analytics that I suppose.

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Speaker 2: It's a little there are breadcrumbs that you will have

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Speaker 2: that the average civilian user does not possess. Uh, it's

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Speaker 2: more difficult to hide the providence of things. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: they came forward and they got ignored, just like a

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Speaker 2: it's this old country anecdote. Right, the teacher tells a

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Speaker 2: kid to stop chewing gum in class. You don't say no,

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Speaker 2: you don't spit out the gum, and just say yes,

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Speaker 2: and then keep doing what you are doing, to chew a.

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Speaker 5: Little less aggressively, right right, for a little bit, and

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Speaker 5: then tell you back.

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Speaker 2: So Reuters, these two journalists, they interviewed dozens and dozens

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Speaker 2: of US officials, contractors, social media oftens, professors. They also

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Speaker 2: looked at social media post within depth analysis, they gained

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Speaker 2: access to technical data like metadata you know, again, the

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Speaker 2: bread crumbs, and they found documents that proved there was

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Speaker 2: a bevy of fake social media accounts being used by

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Speaker 2: the US military. We also know not everybody again to

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Speaker 2: the model this point, not everybody's on board. The diplomatic

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Speaker 2: class in the Southeast Asian theater was super pissed. They

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Speaker 2: knew it was a bad idea.

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Speaker 3: Let's go into just state. This is on Facebook, then

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Speaker 3: it was called Twitter and Instagram. That's where this is

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Speaker 3: largely occurring, and that's the that's the information they got, right,

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Speaker 3: the metadata.

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Speaker 4: So if I were a user, how would these posts

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Speaker 4: be showing up? Would it look like it was coming

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Speaker 4: from an individual espousing an opinion? Would it be fake

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Speaker 4: news articles that were reposted.

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Speaker 5: Like a combination, Like what would it look like to me?

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Speaker 2: It would look like a civilian user and you would

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Speaker 2: and then maybe later a news agency. But the big

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Speaker 2: differentiator in the beginning is that you would have been

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Speaker 2: identified as Filipido.

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Speaker 3: Mm hmm, what I don't know, Well, this is occurring

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Speaker 3: in the Philippines or on mostly in the Philippines, right

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Speaker 3: on the servers that are there. Yeah, And the understanding

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Speaker 3: that we have is that some of these accounts, while

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Speaker 3: they would look like individuals because these are varied, they

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Speaker 3: look like individuals, but they would have thousands, if not

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Speaker 3: tens of thousands of like at least it would look

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Speaker 3: like they have that many followers right.

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Speaker 2: Right, which helps them in the algorithm.

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Speaker 3: Exactly, So they're showing up in feeds the way if

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Speaker 3: you're scrolling through now you're just getting random stuff sometimes.

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Speaker 4: Would they have to like click farm to get those followers?

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Speaker 4: How are they legitimate followers? Are they getting a leg

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Speaker 4: up from the platforms to like literally you know, fake

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Speaker 4: falsify those numbers, Like I have so many questions.

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Speaker 3: I guarantee you they just use one of those services

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Speaker 3: that was part of the budget to get accounts with

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Speaker 3: several thousands.

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Speaker 5: Click click farming kind of stuff.

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Speaker 2: And then they had a budget argument where they said,

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Speaker 2: why don't we start our own thing like this at home?

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Speaker 2: And then someone said, or we could just buy that company.

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Speaker 2: You know, these conversations happen.

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Speaker 3: Let's get a let's get a bought farm in the

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Speaker 3: Philippines to get us a bunch of followers in the Philippines.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, Let's hide the hand. We don't want people to

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Speaker 2: know that this originates in Tampa, Florida. That part's true.

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Speaker 4: God shout out to Tampa and maybe some of this

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Speaker 4: stuff is you know, click baity type stuff. But I

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Speaker 4: have seen video and images of what some of these,

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Speaker 4: like Southeast Asia click farms look like, and it's literally

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Speaker 4: individuals with fifty iPads or like fifty computers just like yeah,

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Speaker 4: or on a rack, like a wooden rack, you know.

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Speaker 5: Is that accurate?

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Speaker 4: I think that's the way that that's the only way

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Speaker 4: to do it, unless you're packing the system, so I

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Speaker 4: think you have to kind of physically do it. Well,

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Speaker 4: they're far more, I'm sure there are, but those do exist.

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Speaker 4: Those are those do those are in fact, I would

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Speaker 4: say the norm, uh, if you're a non state actor.

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Speaker 4: But the the United States military apparatus is not perfect,

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Speaker 4: but it's it's weirdly smart at something sour yeah, yeah,

439
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,439
Speaker 4: and it's uh. We do know that they did contract

440
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 4: out despite wanting to keep their circle close, which is

441
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 4: always obviously ideal. Uh, they partnered with a company we're

442
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 4: going to talk a little bit about later. We mentioned

443
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 4: it in Strange News. General Dynamics Information Technology or get

444
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 4: it to.

445
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:42,360
Speaker 5: Get it, y'all.

446
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,400
Speaker 4: And once again, the more innocuous the name, the more

447
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:50,920
Speaker 4: nefarious the activities. It's just General Dynamics, you know, it's

448
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:51,880
Speaker 4: just general.

449
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 2: What kind of dynamics, you know, just like the general

450
00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 2: dynamics you know. And Reuters and also these journalists did

451
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 2: such an awesome job. I can't say enough good stuff

452
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 2: about them, and I hope if you guys are hearing this,

453
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:11,479
Speaker 2: you're staying safe. Reuter's got a lot of confirmation, and

454
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 2: they got an official statement from the Pentagon, which doesn't

455
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 2: always happen. They said, hey, what's going on with this?

456
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 2: And the US military, through the spokesperson said, quote Uncle

457
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 2: well said Uncle Sam basically quote uses a variety of platforms,

458
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 2: including social media to counter those malign influence attacks aimed

459
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 2: at the US allies or partners. So again, Department of Defense,

460
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 2: we're doing this, but we're doing this in a protective

461
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 2: capacity because the.

462
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 4: Bad guys are like doing it. So therefore we got

463
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 4: to get in the mud with the bad guys. I

464
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 4: love that word malign because that is such a perspective,

465
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,120
Speaker 4: like that is so clearly the you know, a signifier

466
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 4: of an agenda where it's like you're, yeah, these are

467
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,119
Speaker 4: this is the bad information that we are countering. But

468
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 4: if you really dig down, is it you know what

469
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 4: I mean? Or are we actually spreading misinformation. That's just

470
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 4: as dangerous. But it's not about protecting our reputation, you

471
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 4: know what I mean.

472
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 3: Look, man, there's no Department of Offense in here.

473
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 2: Okay mm hmm, Yeah, this is not the war you're

474
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 2: looking for. Yeah, it's true. And there's also a little

475
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 2: bit of like burned ex lover energy in this statement

476
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 2: from the Pentagon because they had some tip for tat.

477
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 2: The spokesperson also added that China is doing similar things

478
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 2: well them too. They said, China is waging a quote

479
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 2: disinformation campaign to falsely blame the United States for the

480
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 2: spread of COVID nineteen.

481
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 5: But like it's.

482
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 4: Almost irrelevant where it came from, you know, at a

483
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 4: certain point, and it becomes more about what did you

484
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 4: do about it? And I think a lot of this

485
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 4: is covering the butts of officials who maybe didn't take

486
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 4: it seriously enough quickly enough, right, And then it's like

487
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 4: about like pivoting the blame from that to well, you

488
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 4: guys put it out there in the first place, and

489
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 4: it was your fault. Therefore anything that we did after

490
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 4: the fact is irrelevant. It just seems to be a

491
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 4: way of trying to control the narrative. In a very

492
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 4: disingenuous way.

493
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 2: I would agree with disingenuous, you know, or like an

494
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 2: enforced cherry picked perspective. But they do have very valid

495
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 2: points because the fancy term for what's going on in

496
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 2: this weird digital ping pong war is asymmetric information warfare.

497
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 2: The street name for it is propaganda, very first episode

498
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 2: stuff they don't want you to know. Ever, did the

499
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 2: end result of this whatever you want to call it

500
00:29:53,960 --> 00:30:00,080
Speaker 2: is again the deaths of innocent people. We cannot prove it,

501
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 2: but you'll see. Let's see, you know what, Let's see

502
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 2: who agrees with us or disagrees at the close of

503
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 2: this exploration.

504
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:12,719
Speaker 3: The thought is that these disinformation posts led individuals to

505
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 3: not take the vaccine, which we'll get into, a very

506
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 3: specific vaccine from China, which then led either them or

507
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 3: their loved ones to contract COVID nineteen, which then led

508
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 3: to their death. So, just to spell it out there,

509
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 3: it's not it's not folks from the DoD killing people.

510
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 3: It is them using this asymmetrical warfare you're talking about

511
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 3: to eventually kill people.

512
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's mousetrappy. It's like Ruben Goldberg esk. That's why

513
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 2: they weren't planning on killing people exactly. They just didn't

514
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 2: really think that. They didn't think it through. It was

515
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 2: an irrelevant thing.

516
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,479
Speaker 3: Or they didn't care because there was a bigger picture

517
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 3: at play.

518
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's the point, you know, Like, look, it's

519
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 2: not as though they would click on a link and

520
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 2: then a stipe drone popped them in the back of

521
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 2: the head. It wasn't that direct to your points there,

522
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 2: Matt and Noll. Particularly, it's about motivation. We mentioned that

523
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 2: this is we talked about a little bit on Strange News.

524
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 2: The United States has long considered, perhaps hypocritically, the Chinese

525
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 2: government to be an expansionist power, and they think of

526
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 2: China as an expansionist power because that is factually accurate,

527
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 2: that is correct.

528
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 5: But we also need.

529
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 4: The hell out of them for so many aspects of

530
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 4: our economy and our infrastructure and our you know, like

531
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 4: supply chain and all of that. So it's always been

532
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 4: this delicate dance and a lot of these sort of snipy,

533
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 4: you know, spurned lover kind of vibes that you're talking

534
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 4: about kind of have to happen underneath all of that, right.

535
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, and in the end, it's all about who

536
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 3: does the world look to when there's a crisis. Who

537
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 3: is the figure that's going to come in and give

538
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 3: you the solution to the big problem that your country

539
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 3: is having or your people are facing.

540
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 2: Right, who is trustworthy enough that previous grievances could be

541
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 2: set aside for one moment, right to solve a global

542
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 2: problem together. That is a very powerful position to attain.

543
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 2: And when throughout human history, when institutions attain that level

544
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 2: of power, it'll hold it very long. There's a reason

545
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 2: King of the Hill is a kid's game and an

546
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 2: awesome cartoon.

547
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, but they will grasp it as hard as they

548
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 3: possibly can until the moment their hands slips off.

549
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 4: Then, would you say a good example of that, like

550
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 4: in history, would be America intervening, You know, when the

551
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 4: Nazis proved to be exactly as real and horrible as

552
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 4: people thought, and then they jumped in and made a

553
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 4: big show of where coming in here to save the world.

554
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 2: Up with the Up with the Financial Decisions of nineteen thirteen.

555
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 2: The actions of the United States and privilege of its

556
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 2: geography are the are the two biggest origin points in

557
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 2: the story of this country becoming the number one superpower.

558
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 5: For a time.

559
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 2: But again, King of the Hill, there's always someone grasping,

560
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 2: there's always someone pushing, right, And this is the larger

561
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 2: context we're talking about. Uncle Sam way before the pandemic

562
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 2: had been super beefed up about Chinese territorial claims in

563
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 2: the South China Sea. If you look at the Chinese

564
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 2: map of maritime borders and you look at the maps

565
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 2: of any other country in the region, they don't agree

566
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 2: at all. Other every other country in the area is like,

567
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 2: pump your brakes, guys.

568
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 3: Yeah. And with that, we're going to take a quick break. Here,

569
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 3: a word from the sponsors, and we'll be right back.

570
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 2: And we've returned.

571
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,240
Speaker 3: Well, and hey, Ben, just out of curiosity, why would

572
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 3: the Philippines be interested in those borders in the South

573
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 3: China Sea? And why would the United States have such

574
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 3: an interest in the Philippines interest in those borders? Wow,

575
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 3: I feel like we just talked about this on another

576
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 3: episode a little while ago, about the strategic interest the

577
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 3: United States has specifically in the Philippines.

578
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Control control the rules of the game, right,

579
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 2: the control the bounds of the playing field the US.

580
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 2: If you look at the way US projects force in

581
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 2: Eastern Asia for most of human history, it would make

582
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 2: no sense, like why would a country so far away

583
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 2: get give a tinkersdam? You know what I mean? Great expression,

584
00:34:56,440 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 2: it's it's probably not a politically correct expression, but the

585
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 2: very British Churchill would have said, I'm sure.

586
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:06,319
Speaker 5: He did right.

587
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 2: But you know, there's a reason why it's such a

588
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:14,359
Speaker 2: that we have these common tropes in English, like the

589
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,800
Speaker 2: price of tea in China means something irrelevant, but this

590
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,799
Speaker 2: is very much relevant because to your point that the

591
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 2: US has a heavy practice of attempting to contain the

592
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 2: growth of China by partnering with other nations in the

593
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:37,279
Speaker 2: area South Korea, right, Japan, the Philippines establishing military footholds

594
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 2: there so that they can have their own supply chains

595
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:45,880
Speaker 2: that are not necessarily bound to the long passage through.

596
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:50,720
Speaker 3: The paces at large, presences of lots of personnel, lots

597
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 3: of equipment, of several actually dozens and dozens of bases.

598
00:35:56,239 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 3: We're talking a lot of strategic interest on on the ground.

599
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 4: So I think I understand that I just want to

600
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:06,359
Speaker 4: put this out there, maybe as a devil's advocate thing.

601
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 4: There was another sort of rhetorical kind of or campaign

602
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 4: where it was like we see you suffering, We've got

603
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 4: your back. We're going to fast track this vaccine. We're

604
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,360
Speaker 4: gonna like make sure that the you know, the FDA

605
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 4: allows this to go through so that we can get

606
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:26,280
Speaker 4: the most people, the most access as quickly as possible.

607
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 4: And all of this is being spearheaded by Fauci. But

608
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 4: you're saying that that while that was happening on one layer,

609
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,839
Speaker 4: this other thing is happening on another layer that is

610
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 4: seemingly coming from somewhere else, but it's actually us presenting.

611
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 5: Both of these campaigns at the same time.

612
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 3: Different tentacles, differents, Like one technacle doesn't know the other

613
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 3: ones doing that, but we do know that China was

614
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 3: offering up its vaccine way before the United States was

615
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 3: offering its vaccine.

616
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:01,319
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, that is true, and that this goes this

617
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,439
Speaker 2: goes to this larger chess game. So you probably we've

618
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:08,399
Speaker 2: probably all heard the idea of carrot and stick negotiation. Right,

619
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,320
Speaker 2: You offer an incentive, right, you entice with one hand

620
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 2: and you threaten punishment with the other. And China is

621
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 2: very big, well, all states are very big on carrot

622
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 2: and stick. For example, would be sure the stick, right,

623
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:25,879
Speaker 2: and the US actually has kind of a bad international

624
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 2: reputation for leaning a little too hard on the stick.

625
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 2: But this these strategies, what we're saying is they have

626
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 2: similarities in structure, and China essentially leveraged an opportunity because

627
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 2: when the pandemic hit, or when it went public in

628
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:49,360
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen, the US enacted something called Operation Warp Speed.

629
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 2: This was very talking about, right, yeah, it's very much

630
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 2: American first. So they said, no holds barred. Uncle Sam

631
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 2: is panicking. The wallet is open, pharmaceutical company, just get

632
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 2: stuff out there, and we are prioritizing not the world's

633
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 2: largest populations, not the ones most endangered by a pandemic,

634
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:18,879
Speaker 2: but the American population first. And hey, pharmaceutical companies, if

635
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:22,760
Speaker 2: there are leftover vaccines, you can sell them for whatever

636
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:26,400
Speaker 2: price you wish to someone else. And so other countries

637
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 2: for a time literally could not afford the proven vaccines

638
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 2: made by the United States pharma companies.

639
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:35,880
Speaker 4: Which is true for other remedies as well. You know

640
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 4: a lot of times I mean big time, right, But.

641
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 3: In this case, it was a global pandemic and the

642
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 3: US was basically doing get they were operating in some

643
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 3: really bad pr areas and levels doing this kind of

644
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 3: thing when their theoretically ideological rivals in China are doing

645
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 3: the exact opposite. Oh, no, we can be the ones

646
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:02,360
Speaker 3: that will give you vaccines. We just need you to

647
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 3: help us a little bit.

648
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 2: And the US said, we might be the world's police,

649
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 2: but we're not the world's doctors. So good luck. And

650
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:15,279
Speaker 2: China comes in, you know, China swoops in. Let's keep

651
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,399
Speaker 2: going with the rom com thing. China swoops in and says, hey,

652
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 2: that guy, what your guy's doing, Philippines, he's just not cool.

653
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 2: You're in a toxic relationship. Let me help you. They

654
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:30,479
Speaker 2: called this, they said to the Philippines, they said, look,

655
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 2: we are just going to give you the vaccines the

656
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 2: Americans refuse to distribute. This is a new highlight in

657
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:44,280
Speaker 2: our bilateral relations Let's put this South China Sea stuff

658
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 2: to the side for one second. Though it is ours

659
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 2: to be clear, Let's put it aside to one second.

660
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 2: We'll revisit that after we address this global crisis. The

661
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 2: United States could have done the same thing very much.

662
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 2: Operation Warp Speed not have to play out the way

663
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 2: it did. But instead of prioritizing or distributing vaccines, to

664
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:10,319
Speaker 2: the Philippines. At this time, Uncle Sam looked into his

665
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 2: handy star spangled top hat and pulled out real nasty trick.

666
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:20,760
Speaker 2: What the folks at Reuters found was at least three

667
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 2: hundred accounts on Twitter that matched the descriptions they gleaned

668
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 2: from former US military officials familiar with the Philippines operation.

669
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 2: So again, one week point in this article, and it

670
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 2: has to be this way one week point is that

671
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:44,919
Speaker 2: all of the officials speaking on record to confirm this,

672
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 2: whether they're active or former, they're speaking on the condition

673
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 2: of anonymity. But again, I kind of always assume that

674
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 2: when someone's speaking anonymously that they've been given a green

675
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 2: light somewhere in the chain.

676
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 5: Oh you think so.

677
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 4: I don't usually think that, which is very interesting that

678
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 4: you say that.

679
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 5: I mean, I usually.

680
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,720
Speaker 4: Think that it sometimes makes me suspicious of what they're saying.

681
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:13,759
Speaker 4: But I usually do think that they are covering their

682
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:15,759
Speaker 4: butt and that they are speaking out of school because

683
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:19,719
Speaker 4: they have a moral a feeling of a moral obligation.

684
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 5: But maybe I'm being naive. I don't know.

685
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:23,879
Speaker 3: I don't know if you're being naive. I think that's

686
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 3: one way to look at it, and another way to

687
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 3: look at it is exactly. I feel very similarly, Ben,

688
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:29,360
Speaker 3: where it's like it's.

689
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:29,799
Speaker 5: A pr MOVI.

690
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:34,879
Speaker 3: This is a special secret program and not that many

691
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:38,279
Speaker 3: people knew about it, and if somebody's speaking, it'd be

692
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 3: easy to identify.

693
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 2: Them, right, That's the thing. It's a limited number of operators.

694
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 2: It's kind of like it's kind of like when we

695
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:52,239
Speaker 2: see those hilarious laws coming out of Russia. Let's say,

696
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:58,239
Speaker 2: any Russian president, whomever that might be. This is just

697
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:00,399
Speaker 2: any Russian president in.

698
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 3: General could run for six consecutive terms if they wanted to.

699
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 2: Just again, a general dynamics any of them. Well.

700
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:10,919
Speaker 4: So, the majority of those body accounts that we're talking

701
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 4: about were created and deployed in the summer of twenty

702
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:18,880
Speaker 4: twenty and often featured a hashtag China ong virus.

703
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 5: What is the on, Ben, I don't think I'm what

704
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 5: are they referring.

705
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 2: To Tagalag language in the Philippines, The translation is China

706
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 2: is the virus.

707
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:30,919
Speaker 4: So they're trying to really reach people where they live

708
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,839
Speaker 4: in that part of the world in terms of like

709
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:38,440
Speaker 4: let's start the campaign of hearts and minds here and then,

710
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 4: and the hopes that it will spread and benefit us

711
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 4: down the line.

712
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,959
Speaker 3: Yes, because China stepping in being you know, at least

713
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 3: the good guy for the people who want the vaccine,

714
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 3: need the vaccine.

715
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 4: This is so tricksy. This is some freaking gullum ass

716
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 4: stuff right here.

717
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 3: But this isn't the first time there were vaccine sphears

718
00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 3: right in the Philippines. There was a campaign previously that

719
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:03,319
Speaker 3: led up to a lot of the fears, and it's

720
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 3: this campaign was just playing on the preview.

721
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 4: Saying certainly someone I said, oh, remember that other thing,

722
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 4: let's jump on it.

723
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 2: Let's like we've already got a little knife to twist here,

724
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 2: you know, right, that's the best way to do it.

725
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 2: You take some you don't invent a new thing, and

726
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:20,799
Speaker 2: try to get people on board familiar identify a thing

727
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 2: yes that is already familiar, and if it's not, if

728
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:29,400
Speaker 2: it's something people don't fully believe in, but they're familiar

729
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 2: with it, then you have a much higher success rate

730
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 2: as you simply radicalize those beliefs or extend them, right weaponize.

731
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:37,319
Speaker 4: Though.

732
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,320
Speaker 5: Gross, it's so edward, it's so marketing all of this stuff.

733
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:42,400
Speaker 4: That's why I think it's so interesting that one of

734
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 4: our earliest podcast episodes was about Edward Burnetz because he

735
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 4: like took this kind of stuff and did it in

736
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:53,880
Speaker 4: the service of something sort of frivolous, like selling stuff.

737
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 4: But it's a perfect look into this weaponization of psychology.

738
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, he went from getting women to smoke and inventing

739
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 2: bacon for breakfast to overthrowing Guatemala. He's got quite a

740
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:14,480
Speaker 2: career trajectory and it can't help. But Myra, there's one

741
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 2: thing we can't miss before we move on. You're absolutely right, Noel.

742
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 2: The majority of these body accounts in this as of

743
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 2: yet unnamed operation were created and deployed in summer of

744
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 2: twenty twenty. Yet some of these accounts were active for

745
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 2: more than five years, like.

746
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 4: Dormed, like ready to be deployed, like sleeper accounts.

747
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:40,359
Speaker 3: Almost Yeah, and they were playing on everybody's fears. Man,

748
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 3: did we already talk about the pork yet?

749
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,719
Speaker 2: That's what we should talk about now. They amplified concerns

750
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:49,239
Speaker 2: in the Islamic demographic of the.

751
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 3: Films, and it wasn't just aimed at the Philippines either.

752
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:56,800
Speaker 3: It was aimed at several other countries outside of Southeast Asia,

753
00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 3: specifically harping on that point that the vaccines from China

754
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:06,399
Speaker 3: contained pork gelatin, which would mean you cannot take these

755
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 3: vaccines at all if you are Muslim.

756
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 2: Yeah. Here, there are plenty of examples. Yeah, it started

757
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:17,520
Speaker 2: in the Philippine. Well, it started in Tampa, Florida. Yeah, yes,

758
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 2: it started in Pentagon. It started in Tampa, Florida, and

759
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:23,719
Speaker 2: then it went to the Philippines and later expanded through

760
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 2: Eurasia and the Middle East, targeting largely Muslim populations, leveraging

761
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:35,799
Speaker 2: the already pre existing distrust amid the Muslims of the

762
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 2: world for the Chinese government.

763
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 4: Wigers right due to their treatment of the week, absolutely abominable.

764
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 3: Treatment, but pretty much any country that was going to

765
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 3: accept China's aid, basically China's help in this major global catastrophe.

766
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and here's an example. You can see a lot

767
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 2: of these translated tweets in Scientific American and Reuters. But

768
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 2: when the expanded to Eurasia, they were targeting Russian speaking

769
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:10,280
Speaker 2: Muslims or countries with Russian speaking Muslims, and you can

770
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:14,839
Speaker 2: you'll scroll down. It's like a cool little infographic that's disturbing.

771
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:19,919
Speaker 2: It shows someone who is a Chinese official handing out

772
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 2: syringes to mainly women right wearing jab and then he's

773
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 2: standing next to her. This official is standing next to

774
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:33,280
Speaker 2: a curtain, a barrier like a theater curtain, and behind

775
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:37,360
Speaker 2: that curtain there's a bunch of very sick looking swine

776
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:41,319
Speaker 2: with a bunch of syringes stuck in them. The translation

777
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 2: from Russia is can China be trusted if it tries

778
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 2: to hide that its vaccine contains pork gelatine and distributes

779
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:52,279
Speaker 2: it in Central Asia and other Muslim countries where many

780
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 2: people consider such a drug hara.

781
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 4: It's like a political cartoon, like a really aggressive political cartoon,

782
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 4: with the one that made people realize Boss Tweed was

783
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:04,400
Speaker 4: a bad guy, because they.

784
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 5: Just simplify visual.

785
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 4: You know, boom that is it is smart, smart, diabolical guys.

786
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 3: It's very close to South Park animation style.

787
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 4: Well, I haven't even seen it, but the way you're

788
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:19,279
Speaker 4: describing it that that's what makes that's what it makes

789
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:19,680
Speaker 4: me think of.

790
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:24,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's again. You know. One of the easiest ways

791
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:29,799
Speaker 2: to hack communication and conversation with people is not necessarily

792
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:32,759
Speaker 2: to give them a caption, is they show them an

793
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:36,319
Speaker 2: image because different parts of the brain process it. This

794
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:38,560
Speaker 2: is the real Sith Lord's stuff, we're telling you folks.

795
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:38,879
Speaker 5: Yeah.

796
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 3: But well, and that that image, I would argue, doesn't

797
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 3: need a caption. If you look at that image, you

798
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:45,759
Speaker 3: are going to understand what it's trying to say.

799
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 4: Well, that's the point of infographics like that, so that

800
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:52,720
Speaker 4: it's for maximum intelligibility no matter what language you speak,

801
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 4: you know.

802
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 2: And this campaign was, you know, as we said, it

803
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 2: found fertile soil in the mind of many Muslim Filipinos

804
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 2: and then people in the Filipino diaspora as well, And

805
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:09,720
Speaker 2: it was built on the back of the ghoulish accusations

806
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:13,360
Speaker 2: surrounding the treatment of the wigers. The campaign appears to

807
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 2: have been successful because originally Filipinos were largely unwilling to

808
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 2: trust China's vaccine Sinovak, and it first became available in

809
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 2: the country in the Philippines March of twenty twenty one.

810
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:29,320
Speaker 5: What was ours called? Do you guys even remember?

811
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:34,200
Speaker 4: Was there? There was JJ, there was Maderna, Yeah, but

812
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:36,799
Speaker 4: those are the companies didn't have a clever name like

813
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 4: Cinovak or was Sinevac the Chinese pharmaceutical company, like the actual.

814
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:45,239
Speaker 5: Vaccine didn't have some clever name. I don't know.

815
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 4: I think Cinovac is it must be the pharmaceutical company

816
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 4: out of China.

817
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:52,719
Speaker 2: Maybe they just needed a snappier name for the American versions,

818
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.

819
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:55,360
Speaker 5: I don't think they associated a name with it. It

820
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 5: was there was the Maderna one.

821
00:48:57,400 --> 00:48:59,480
Speaker 4: They were like, they always just named it based on

822
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 4: the company that was putting it out.

823
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 2: Take your shot at freedom, Yeah, freedom, fellow conspiracy realist.

824
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 2: This doesn't always happen. But we are publishing a rare

825
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:15,239
Speaker 2: two parter. There's so much more to get to and

826
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 2: we can't wait for you to join us. Check out

827
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 2: Part two of the Pentagon's anti VAXX program in the

828
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 2: near future. In the meantime, we want to hear your thoughts.

829
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:25,960
Speaker 2: We try to be easy to find online.

830
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:28,279
Speaker 4: Find us on the Internet of the handlic conspiracy stuff

831
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:30,640
Speaker 4: where we exist, on Facebook, where you can join our

832
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:33,640
Speaker 4: Facebook group Here's where it gets crazy, on YouTube, where

833
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:36,440
Speaker 4: we have video content rolling at you on the regular,

834
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 4: and on x FKA Twitter.

835
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 3: Do you like to use your phone to call people?

836
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:45,600
Speaker 3: Why not call us? Put this number in your phones

837
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:48,480
Speaker 3: as a contact. Call it whatever you want, Just note

838
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 3: it might call you back after you call it. One

839
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:55,799
Speaker 3: eight three three st d wytk. When you call in,

840
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:58,880
Speaker 3: give yourself a cool nickname, and you know, let us

841
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:00,319
Speaker 3: know if we can use your name in mess on

842
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 3: the air. If you've got more to say than can

843
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:05,360
Speaker 3: fit in that three minutes, maybe you've got attachments, maybe links.

844
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 3: Why not send us a good old fashioned email.

845
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:10,440
Speaker 2: We are the things out there in the dark that

846
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 2: read every email we receive. We can't wait for you

847
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:16,600
Speaker 2: to join us and be well aware of folks. Sometimes

848
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:19,400
Speaker 2: the void writes back. In fact, the Void's writing to

849
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:41,720
Speaker 2: several of you this evening conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

850
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:44,000
Speaker 3: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

851
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 3: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

852
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