WEBVTT - Jason Reitman / "Tully" and "The Front Runner" 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:17.600 M m m m. You're listening to Playback, a Variety 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:21.079 I Heart Radio podcast. I'm your host, Variety Awards Editor 0:00:21.160 --> 0:00:24.479 Chris Tapley. This week, I'm talking to director Jason Reitman, 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:27.200 who has two films out this year. Earlier in the spring, 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:29.880 it was Tully with Charlie Starren, and out now is 0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:32.720 the front Runner with Hugh Jackman. Jason and I talked 0:00:32.720 --> 0:00:35.000 about the complexities of his new film, which tells the 0:00:35.040 --> 0:00:37.919 story of disgraced politician Gary Hart, and a whole lot 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:57.200 more so. Sit tight. This is playback. He's gonna how's 0:00:57.200 --> 0:01:00.000 the family. They're good man. I'll show you a picture 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:06.319 you're in a minute. Yeah, that's exhausting. Yeah, because he's 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:09.720 too and he's you know, yeah, every every good good though, 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:15.119 I'll show it sounds crazy. I'll show you what twelve 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:21.720 looks like already. Wow, did sure her first day of 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:25.600 school this year? So this was four or five years 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:27.280 ago and she started the school and she's like, oh, 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:30.600 she's a kid. She looks like a kid. And then 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:35.280 this was first day of school this year and it's tall, yeah, 0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:37.240 and like has that look in her eyes and it's 0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:40.160 just like I looked it, says like I know what's 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:47.520 up on my phone. Yeah, I'm glad, thank you. I'm 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:51.640 gonna move this back in front of you. All right. Gosh, 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:54.080 I didn't know she was already that old. It's crazy, right, 0:01:58.520 --> 0:02:03.800 do you vote yet? I'm a Canadian, that's right, I can't. 0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:12.680 I'm just on the sidelines watching. I mean, it's it's 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:15.920 crazy though, yes, it's that's a word for it. All right, 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:19.720 I want to start. Yeah, we're up and running, all right, everybody. 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:23.120 I'm here today with Jason Reitman, director of the front Runner. 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:26.360 Quite a title for a movie in the Awards season. 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:31.160 By the way, thanks for coming on the show. I 0:02:31.200 --> 0:02:33.600 really appreciate it. It's great to be here. We're just 0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:36.400 talking about kids in life and Georgia and politics. And 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:39.880 we're here on election day, which is, uh, your movies 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:43.360 out today, right, Like, you know, we're in LA in 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:48.720 New York, so the first election day release. Yeah. I mean, 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:50.520 I don't think anyone really wants to go to the 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:54.600 movies today. I think everyone's gonna be hopefully voting, and 0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:56.959 then later on everyone's gonna be watching the television to 0:02:57.000 --> 0:03:01.800 see what happens, which, um, you know, it makes everybody anxious. 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:03.760 Although I guess you could say the positive is that 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:07.680 we are interested in the process and people are voting 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:10.239 and people care, and I guess that's a good thing. Yeah, 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:12.720 well it's interesting for me this year. You this is 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:15.720 is kind of your your Schindler's List Jurassic Park here 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:21.600 if you will. That's a bit much, I mean, I mean, 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:25.680 you're talking about the year where Spielberg, you know, reinvented 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:29.520 what science fiction looks like and then made this beautiful 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:32.560 black and white holocaust film that one best picture. I 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:35.440 don't think I'm having that year version of that. I 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:38.720 appreciate that. Now. Look, it's been an exciting year to 0:03:38.760 --> 0:03:41.040 have Tolly out five months ago and now to have 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:44.120 front Runner out now, Uh, two films that I'm equally 0:03:44.160 --> 0:03:51.400 proud of that are um different and personal and both 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:55.120 independent and movies I made for the right reasons. Yeah, 0:03:55.200 --> 0:03:57.560 that's really cool. At a time when it's really hard 0:03:57.600 --> 0:04:00.680 to get movies made and uh, really hard to make 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:02.480 personal movies, the idea that I get to make two 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:04.440 in a year, again, it's really excited, does it feel like, 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:06.720 just in the promotion of that, having these two films 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:09.320 to put out there in the world and kind of 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:11.600 speak to them. I mean, you usually you're so focused 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:13.240 when you're putting out putting on a movie. It's like 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:15.160 that was your year. Obviously you might be working on 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:17.400 a movie otherwise, but to have them both out and 0:04:17.520 --> 0:04:20.480 kind of chewing on them like that, you know. I mean, 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:25.120 the promotion process is emotionally complicated as a director because 0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:27.840 it is you know, it's dropping your kids off at school, 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:29.919 you know, at college. You know, it's the it's the 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:32.320 moment you say goodbye. And the more you talk about 0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:36.360 a movie, the less it becomes yours. So, uh, it's 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:40.840 always an emotionally challenging experience to promote a film because 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:42.760 even though it's exciting for it to be out there 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:46.080 in the world, Um, the more you talk about it 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:47.640 and the more you tell stories about it, and the 0:04:47.640 --> 0:04:50.600 more you try to promote it, the less it's, strangely 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:53.440 becomes your movie. Yeah, let's go back before we get 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:56.440 into front Runner and talk about Tolly saw it at Sundance, 0:04:56.520 --> 0:05:02.440 the Big Blizzard screening premiere. Uh, that was Diablo Cody script. 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:05.520 I'm curious what made you want to direct it? I mean, 0:05:05.800 --> 0:05:10.800 I think my role on Earth is to direct her screenplay, 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:14.080 So I said, I would say primarily that you know, 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:17.599 we're on this trajectory of making a movie every five years, 0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:19.839 and I hope that continues to the day I die. 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:25.000 She's one of the best writers alive, and she writes 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:28.000 from a very unique point of view. Her voice is 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:31.600 singular uh, and she always surprises me with everything that 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:34.479 she writes. And here she wrote, you know, you know, 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:36.800 with each of the movies, it's like we're growing up together. 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:39.480 You can see that through Juno and Young Adult and 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:41.680 not finally this one and this one, you know, was 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:46.560 a conversation about uh, getting a little bit older. And 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:49.480 you know, if you could have a conversation with your 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:52.320 younger self, you know, and say, actually, goodbye to your 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:54.400 younger self, what would you say. I think that was 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:57.120 kind of at the heart of it. Were you aware 0:05:57.160 --> 0:05:59.279 of what of of her working on it before, like 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:00.920 did you see it for the first time in script 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:04.600 form or was that something you you know. What seems 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:07.560 to happen is she lets me know, hey, I'm thinking 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:09.840 of working on this idea and gives me the gist 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:12.680 of it and then infuriating Lee. In a couple of months, 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:14.719 she has a screenplay and it's worth directing. You know, 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:17.000 it's it's ready to shoot. And I you know, I 0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:19.279 think we've just talked about before. I'm a slow writer. 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:20.960 You know, I wrote up in the air or of 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:23.400 course a seven years I think you're spoking were of 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:25.520 course of five years. The idea that you can kind 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:27.600 of just turn around a script a matter of months 0:06:27.800 --> 0:06:30.320 is mind boggling that she does it without a treatment, 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:33.320 that she just kind of wanders into the desert and 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:35.120 comes out the other side of the script. I mean, look, 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:37.800 you and I are both screenwriters. Like it's just like 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:42.240 how how does someone do that? And she's just innately 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:45.359 gifted me. It's like you know, asking a baseball player 0:06:45.400 --> 0:06:47.159 how they hit the ball. I think at a certain 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:49.680 point they were just born to do it. And she 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:54.120 is just a kind of the truest form of a 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:57.719 writer that I've encountered. And you saw something of yourself 0:06:57.760 --> 0:07:00.920 in the material immediately. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's interesting, 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:05.080 like I find that those films end up being strangely autobiographical. 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:09.720 Bi autobiographical for Diablo and I for probably different reasons. 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:14.320 But you know, Juno was about um innocence and the 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:18.040 moment that you do grow up or decided not to 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:21.520 grow up, and young adult was obviously the fear of 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:26.520 growing up. And this was five years further down the 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:31.000 line in that trajectory when you know, uh, you have 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:34.480 to actually admit that you've grown up and say goodbye 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:38.840 to your younger self. Yea, Uh, what were you looking 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:41.600 for it? By the way, after Men, Women and Children 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:44.480 was your feature previous to that, and you did casually. 0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:45.960 You worked in TV with Hulu for a bit, But 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:47.720 I'm curious what you were looking for in the span 0:07:47.840 --> 0:07:50.280 of time. I don't know, I mean, and I get 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:52.480 why you're asking. H I mean, it's kind of a 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:53.880 weird thing to come off of a kind of a 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:56.560 resounding failure and like think about like where you want 0:07:56.560 --> 0:07:58.200 to go next. Also, you took some time, that was 0:07:58.240 --> 0:07:59.720 what I mean. I mean, you worked on Casual, but 0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:02.360 you know there was time between. I guess, so, I 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:05.200 mean it didn't feel like that. That's the crazy thing is, 0:08:05.240 --> 0:08:07.400 So you know, Men, Women and Children comes out I 0:08:07.400 --> 0:08:09.760 think in two thousand fourteen, we right the front runner. 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:14.600 In two thousand fifteen. Uh, we are making four seasons 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:16.520 of Casual over the last you know, three and a 0:08:16.520 --> 0:08:20.160 half years, and then made you know, finished the front 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:23.160 Runner screenplay, went immediately into directing Tully, and then went 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:27.640 immediately directing front Runner. So close in fact, that there 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:30.160 was a time when both Tully and the front Runner 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:32.839 were simultaneously in the Avid. And there's actually a shot 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:36.200 from Tully in the front Runner because we were missing 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:37.760 a shot and I realized I could use this shot 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:43.480 from the other movie. Yeah, so it it's it's feels 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:46.760 as though it's been packed. I mean, it's four seasons 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:50.560 of TV and two movies for sure. What you say 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:53.520 resounding failure, I mean is that just regarding box office 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:57.560 or did you feel like creatively you did not. Actually, 0:08:57.600 --> 0:09:00.160 I'm actually really proud of that movie. I'm proud of uh, 0:09:00.440 --> 0:09:02.040 proud of what we wrote, proud of what we shot. 0:09:02.360 --> 0:09:04.600 Um love the music in it, and obviously the cast 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:07.800 in it is exceptional and you know, actors like Ansel L. Gordon, 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:12.360 Timothy Shamala Salam or you know, obviously you know being 0:09:13.360 --> 0:09:16.120 recognized now, which we should almost rerelease the film now 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:19.559 considering how big all the stars in it are. But no, 0:09:19.760 --> 0:09:23.760 I'm actually really happy with that film and um, but look, 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:28.160 you can't control how a movie is received, both at 0:09:28.200 --> 0:09:32.400 the time and in general. Uh, and uh, you know, 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:37.080 you know what's funny is I think there's kind of 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:42.160 a presumption of how directors work and behave, And there's 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:44.120 this kind of presumption that directors come in with all 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:48.160 the answers that they think that they h that they 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:50.120 have the answers for everybody else, and that's why they 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:52.559 make a movie. And I think the opposite is actually true. 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:56.400 I think directors make movies because we have questions. Uh, 0:09:56.440 --> 0:09:58.360 we're just as lost as everyone else. We're trying to 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:01.360 figure things out, and every and figures things out in 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:05.920 different ways, and making a movie is a way of 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:08.440 chewing on the questions that are gnawing away. I think 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:11.960 that's why artists in general create, is because there's something 0:10:12.000 --> 0:10:14.120 that bothers us as an itch you need to scratch. 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:17.400 And so you know, with a movie like Men, Women 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:22.160 and Children, that uh were the response presumed as though 0:10:22.400 --> 0:10:25.520 I felt I had answers. It's not the truth. I 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:29.520 just just another person living today trying to figure out. Uh, 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:33.840 this world is moving really fast, and you know how 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:37.720 my connections with everyone else are have evolved and changed, 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:41.280 and you know, as a result of technology. So what 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:44.599 was the question then? That spurred the front Runner on 0:10:45.480 --> 0:10:47.960 well the first runner, you know, yeah, no, I think 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:50.240 I have. The front Runner is filled with questions. I 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:53.280 mean I came into look unlike everyone else alive right now, 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:57.240 you know. I I wake up, the first thing I 0:10:57.280 --> 0:10:59.040 do is I check my phone and I look at 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:01.960 the news app and I just go fuck, you know. 0:11:02.760 --> 0:11:06.040 And I'm trying to figure everything out as much as 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:09.480 everybody else. And when I heard the Gary Hart story, 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:11.440 which I really didn't know from when I was a kid, 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:13.200 you know, I was ten years older than this happened. 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:15.400 I was, you know, and I heard the names, but 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:18.080 I didn't really know the story. And when I heard, 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:22.559 you know, Radio Labs episode on Gary Hard which covered 0:11:22.600 --> 0:11:25.920 map Buy's book, It's kind of revelation to me. I 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:27.560 just couldn't believe that there was this moment in our 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:29.920 recent history where they presumed next president of the United 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:32.400 States was in an alley way behind his house in 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:33.880 the middle of the night with these at the journalists, 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:35.360 and nobody knew what to do because no one ever 0:11:35.400 --> 0:11:37.760 been in their shoes before. And it was the first 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:40.440 time that we were talking about a tabloid story when 0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:44.040 it came to potential president and it was the reason 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:46.480 he left the race. That's kind of interesting, I mean 0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:51.040 in it, I thought, uh, hey, there was all this 0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:53.480 connected tissue everything we're talking about today, you know, as 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:56.440 far as gender politics and the line between the what 0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:58.840 is a public life versus a private life and what 0:11:59.040 --> 0:12:02.280 is the relationship at wing journalists and candidates, which obviously 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:04.559 has only become more fraught in the two years, you 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:07.800 know since we wrote the script um. And at the 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:10.480 core of it was this thriller, this thriller of a 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:12.640 movie where a guy went from being the next president 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:15.280 the United States and less than a week later he 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:18.800 leaves politics forever. And he's a guy who in the 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:22.080 mid EIGHTI was was saying things like we're addicted to oil, 0:12:22.080 --> 0:12:23.640 and that addiction is going to takes into the Middle 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:26.280 East where we're gonna encounter Islamic terrorism and not know 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:27.880 how to fight it. Is a guy in the early 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:31.680 eighties met Steve jobs Um and came back to the 0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:35.679 Senate and said, Uh, the difference in the future in 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:37.240 the economy will be with her or not. You know 0:12:37.280 --> 0:12:38.760 how to use a computer, and we need a computer 0:12:38.800 --> 0:12:43.080 in every classroom. He was prescient about everything and yet 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:46.760 could not see this thing that was happening right in 0:12:46.840 --> 0:12:50.520 front of him, that the landscape was shifting, that we 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:53.319 wanted to know about his personal life and he was 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:56.600 unwilling to share that. And what is it about that 0:12:56.640 --> 0:12:59.160 moment that puts us on a trajectory of today? Well, 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:01.920 let me ask you this, does that naive to say? 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:03.520 Does he get away with that in your movie a 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:05.680 little bit? What do you mean? I just kind of 0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:09.760 feel like this is me. But I kept waiting on 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:11.319 you to take a little more of a stand than 0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:12.920 you did, and I know it was willful not to. 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:16.280 It's it's a very it's a very kind of especially 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:18.640 taking a dive into the press situation, how the press, 0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:21.680 how you handle the press in it. Uh some critics 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:23.560 have even taken it to feel like a side eye 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:27.960 towards the press or something. Uh So, I guess my 0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:29.920 question is when you when you had all those questions 0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:31.560 going into it, did you come up with any answers 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:33.920 or is the fact that you kind of left things 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:36.360 a little hands off? I do with all my movies. 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:39.119 That is how that is who I am as a filmmaker. 0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:41.960 And if that frustrates you, then I get it. Only 0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:44.560 this time and I think at this period in history 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:47.000 is the thing, you know, like, if it's not like 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:48.840 a little both sides the at the time, I didn't 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:50.360 want to hear that. That's when we need to be 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:53.840 most challenging. Look Up in the Air? You know, where 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:55.439 is George Clooney going at the end of Up in 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:57.520 the Air? Is he gonna go find true love? Or 0:13:57.559 --> 0:14:00.920 is he find actually given up on the whole concept? Um, 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:02.800 I think it'd be bullshit if I, you know, said, 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:05.800 oh it's one or the other. Uh. I hate movies 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:09.560 that do that. And and and look, you know where 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:11.760 is Charlie's going at the end of Young Adult? You know, 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:15.080 is she has she finally learned her lesson? Is she 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:17.959 going to you know, mature and look for a deep 0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:21.160 and meaningful relationship or is she realized that she's going 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:24.080 to lean into this character that she's created for herself 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:26.400 for the rest of her life. Um. These are the 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:29.240 things that that I think about every day. I think 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:30.960 a lot of people think about every day. You know, 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:33.120 am I becoming a better person or a worst person 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:35.800 on a daily basis? Am I enriching my life? Uh? 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:38.360 Am I becoming a closer friend? Or am I finding 0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:41.200 ways to put walls around me. Um, And politically, where 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:43.320 the hell are we going? I mean, this is what's 0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:45.760 on our minds, and no one has the answer on that. 0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:49.960 And both sides thinks the other is absolutely crazy. And 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:53.800 our candidates have become uh had no one is in 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:56.640 the center anymore. We're leaning to the to the edges 0:14:56.760 --> 0:15:01.600 of each party and uh and and there is a 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:05.800 fraud relationship between journalists and candidates. They don't talk to 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:07.480 each other, they don't spend time with each other. And 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:10.480 when I read Matt's book on the subject, on Heart, 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:15.280 I saw a moment as recent as the early to 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:19.440 mid eighties when politicians and candidates spent social time with 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:21.960 journalists and they knew who each other were as people. 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:24.280 I think there's something really important to that. And a 0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:28.840 wall went up at this moment. And and and it's 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:31.480 interesting because you know, I hear what you're saying as 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:33.400 far as a side eye to the press, which I 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:37.440 really do not have. Right of course, that's why I asked. 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:39.480 I mean, look, I mean you and I are friends. 0:15:39.520 --> 0:15:41.160 I'm friends with plenty of journalists. I wrote this with 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:43.440 a journalist, one of the writers of the screenplay. Uh. 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:48.760 You know, covered five presidencies for New York Times magazine. Um, 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:52.560 I think we all have a responsibility. Now, Look, I okay, 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:55.360 I just mentioned earlier. You wake up, you open your phone, 0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:57.720 you check the news out. This is what I noticed 0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:01.480 a lot of happening these days. They years a piece 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:05.000 on the mid terms or the Kavanaugh herrings, and then 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:09.800 right next to it, from the same source, Post Times 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:15.680 Equal Weight is something on Ariana Grande and Pete Davidson 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:21.520 breaking up. Which one is politics? Which one is entertaining? 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:23.000 Why are they given the same way? Why am I 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:29.920 getting them both from the Washington Post. I think there 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:35.400 is a confusion, and it comes from us. It comes 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:38.000 from the readers. It comes to the people clicking. It's 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:42.960 an appetite. Yeah, so you know, if anything, I'm turning 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:45.200 the mirror back on the audience and going, okay, so 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:46.920 what do you really want to know? What are you 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:49.920 interested in? I know you're frustrated. I'm frusted. We're all 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:52.920 frustrated right now. But how did we actually get here? 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:54.840 And if you look at eight seven, what's interesting about 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:57.280 that moment is it is the moment that a current 0:16:57.320 --> 0:16:59.320 affair goes on television. I was just gonna say, the 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:02.280 twenty four hour news cycle, is you really starting to 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:05.919 pick up around the television news. And you have the 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:08.679 birth of the satellite truck, which makes the twenty four 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:11.639 hour news cycle possible. You have CNN giving satellite phones 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:16.239 to their journals so they can cover the presidency anywhere anytime. Uh, 0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:18.720 political punditry is coming to its own. You have kind 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:22.320 of like it's like six years after the birth of Crossfire, 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:24.399 and that is now starting to heap up, heat up 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:26.399 and come into its own, and you can start to 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:28.560 see it starts to get planted in other places. You 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:30.800 have the Tammy Faye Baker story. You have all our 0:17:30.880 --> 0:17:35.440 North and Fawn Hall, and and and and and even 0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:38.280 with this story, it's like you go from a magazine 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:39.920 cover with a big photo of Gary Hart with a 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:41.800 little photo of Donna Rice, and within a month or 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:43.520 two it's a big photo of Donna Rice in the 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:48.280 little photo of Gary Hart. So I'm interested in what 0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:50.639 what we want to consume, how we want to consume it, 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:56.640 and and in this bigger idea of okay, what's actually relevant, 0:17:57.080 --> 0:18:00.760 what is important versus what is entertaining, And that becomes 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:05.240 the fundamental filmmaking style. That we go with. So from 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:07.879 the first thing shot, opening shot, two and a half minutes, 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:11.520 sprawling shot, tons of characters going starting into the satellite truck, 0:18:11.960 --> 0:18:15.720 starting in a satellite truck. So what we're trying to 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:19.480 tell the audience right from the beginning is you're gonna 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:23.320 hear things overlapping, three conversations, four conversations. You're not gonna 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:24.920 be able to listen to everything, You're not going to 0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:26.600 look at everything. You're gonna meet characters you're not gonna 0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:28.960 know first are these Is this an important person? Is 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:30.960 this the last time I'm going to see them? And 0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:32.399 right from the beginning of the film, you have to 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:34.760 make decisions, all right, what do you want to listen to? 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:37.119 Given the choice? And that goes all the way to 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:40.880 the closing shot of the film, where there's two things 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:43.440 happening on screen and on one side there's a television 0:18:43.600 --> 0:18:46.440 where Gary Hearts making his last speech as a politicians, 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:48.440 the best speech he ever made, the most important speech 0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:51.359 he ever made. It's kind of strange that I'm not 0:18:51.400 --> 0:18:55.280 sure of another politician where the most important speech they 0:18:55.320 --> 0:19:00.159 ever made with literally the end of their career and young, 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:02.240 you know. And then on the other side of frame 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:06.439 ar guarianly husband and wife, a marriage, a complicated marriage 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:11.160 going through real trouble, and I'm asked on it. It's 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:13.440 what do you really want to look at? And that's 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:15.159 what I want to leave with them with. This is 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:18.199 a long winded way of saying I want people to 0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:21.200 think about that. Have that conversation look like, do what 0:19:21.280 --> 0:19:23.840 have feelings about the current presidency? Of course I do 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:28.879 um And in casual conversations with my friends, yes I would. 0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:31.520 I would make them clear. But I don't see the 0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:36.200 point of my movies too as to take people down 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:41.080 or to use my megaphone to shout my opinion. I 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:43.399 see the movie as a mirror. I see it as 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:46.159 an opportunity for people to see themselves in it. And 0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:47.879 at the end of the day, I'm much more interested 0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:52.359 in human beings than I am in politics. He started 0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:53.560 to get ahead of me there. I was gonna ask 0:19:53.600 --> 0:19:57.200 about the aesthetic, because I love the aesthetic. The first 0:19:57.200 --> 0:19:59.240 thing I thought it was Altman. You know, it's just 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:02.760 this the overlap dialogue. You know, something going on way 0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:05.280 over here that we're eventually going to end up on, 0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:07.879 but we're not there yet. Yeah, you know, the slowly. 0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:10.280 It's just there's a kind of a seventies aesthetic. I guess. 0:20:11.080 --> 0:20:13.760 Uh so you started to explain it there, but talk 0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:15.239 a little bit more about that and working with your 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:20.200 DP on it. Yeah, totally. I mean, so the first 0:20:20.200 --> 0:20:24.440 thing that I did co writers, Um, first thing I 0:20:24.480 --> 0:20:27.600 did with my co writers, uh, Matt By and Jay Carson, 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:29.320 I shoul point out. You know I mentioned that Matt By, 0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:31.960 you know New York Times magazine. Jay Carson was the 0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:35.919 press secretary for Hillary Clinton. Howard Dean, Tom Dashall. So 0:20:36.000 --> 0:20:38.120 this is a movie that was written on the shoulders 0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:40.720 of their kind of mutual experience from both sides of 0:20:40.720 --> 0:20:42.760 the line, one being a journalist southern, one being a 0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:47.720 political operative. Um. And we watched the candidate together, the 0:20:47.800 --> 0:20:51.120 Michael Richie felt and that was the first moment where 0:20:51.160 --> 0:20:53.359 we just we were all watching together and it was like, Okay, 0:20:53.400 --> 0:20:56.320 this is the north Star. This is what we're aiming for. 0:20:56.680 --> 0:20:59.600 This kind of loose, messy style in which you feel 0:20:59.600 --> 0:21:02.439 like you were just dropped into the room. There is 0:21:02.480 --> 0:21:04.480 you know, there isn't a director telling you this is 0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:06.280 important to keep an eye on this. You have to 0:21:06.320 --> 0:21:09.160 pay atchanges in this character or this is the point. 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:13.080 Rather you're in a room fend for yourself. And of 0:21:13.119 --> 0:21:17.240