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Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom Never told you from house top

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Speaker 1: works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline. And even though this podcast is

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Speaker 1: coming to you long after the news came out, let's

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Speaker 1: raise the roof for DOMA, the defensive marriage ack being

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Speaker 1: struck down as unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. Wedding bells

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Speaker 1: be ringing, y'all? Way to go? Well, wedding bells be

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Speaker 1: ringing in some states? Well, yeah, but I didn't think

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Speaker 1: it would sound as good to say like an asterisk

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Speaker 1: after right my statement. Wedding bells be ringing footnote in

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Speaker 1: the thirteen states where gay marriage is currently legal, also

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Speaker 1: the district of Columbia. See it's just bulky. That is bulky. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so we're gonna talk about what's next for gay marriage.

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Speaker 1: To give an update on DOMA. When the DOMA ruling

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Speaker 1: came out, I posted on Facebook, looks like we need

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Speaker 1: to update our very old episode now on what's the

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Speaker 1: difference between civil unions and marriages? Because the answer to

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Speaker 1: pretty much all of that was, oh, you know, just

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Speaker 1: the one thousand plus federal statutes relating to marriage being

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Speaker 1: between a man and a woman exclusively. So now that

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Speaker 1: that is not the law of the LAMB, we wanted

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Speaker 1: to come back and say, hey, well what is the law?

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Speaker 1: Where are we now? Where did we come from, and

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Speaker 1: where are we going? Everything? Get out your gay marriage compass,

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Speaker 1: let's and let's check things out. So just for a

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Speaker 1: quick overview, though, gay marriage is currently legal in thirteen

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Speaker 1: states and DC. Like I said, uh, and thirty six

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Speaker 1: states though as far as I know, I've seen thirty five,

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Speaker 1: but thirty six states by min tality have laws on

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Speaker 1: the books banning gay marriage. And there are four states

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Speaker 1: though Colorado, Hawaii, Illinois, and New Jersey that do recognize

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Speaker 1: civil unions. So on a state by state basis, we

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Speaker 1: are a long way from gay marriage being just legal everywhere. Um,

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Speaker 1: but Caroline, the lead up to DOMA started a long

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Speaker 1: time ago, right back in nineteen seventy two, in the

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Speaker 1: case Baker versus Nelson, the Supreme Court dismissed a challenge

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Speaker 1: to a Minnesota ruling that gay couples have no constitutional

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Speaker 1: right to marry because it failed to raise a substantial

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Speaker 1: federal question. Yeah, and as an addendum to that Baker v.

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Speaker 1: Nelson case, as of two thousand and twelve, the Associated

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Speaker 1: Press reported that Jack Baker and Michael McConnell, who were

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Speaker 1: the ones who brought that challenge, are still together. Love

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Speaker 1: rules Well yeah, I love is love. Um. Then in

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Speaker 1: nineteen this is the year that things really started moving

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Speaker 1: for better or for worse. Um. The Hawaii Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: decided in the case Bear versus Lewin that it was

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Speaker 1: unconstitutional to deny three gay couples of freedom to marry

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Speaker 1: because it discriminated on the basis of sex. Right. The

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Speaker 1: court said the band could only be upheld if the

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Speaker 1: state could demonstrate how the ban quote furthers compelling state

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Speaker 1: interests and is narrowly drawn to avoid unnecessary abridgments of

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Speaker 1: constitutional right. So, okay, you can have a band, but

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Speaker 1: as long as it's not actually infringing on rights, which

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Speaker 1: which it absolutely was doing in the eyes of the

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Speaker 1: Hawaiian Supreme Court because of that discrimination on the basis

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Speaker 1: of sex, because the only thing holding these people back

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Speaker 1: from getting married was the fact that it was people

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Speaker 1: of the same sex who wanted to get married. Now.

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Speaker 1: Not surprisingly though, that set off a number of alarm

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Speaker 1: bells for politicians in particular who were proponents of quote

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Speaker 1: unquote traditional marriage, which is obviously marriage between man and woman.

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Speaker 1: Right in Republican presidential candidates all pledged to protect marriage

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Speaker 1: between a man and a woman during the Iowa CAUCUSUS

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Speaker 1: and a little bill known as the Defensive Marriage Act

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Speaker 1: was filed in May in Congress, and on September twenty one,

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Speaker 1: President Clinton, yes, President Clinton, signed DOMA into law. And

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Speaker 1: that's something that's a detail about the Defensive Marriage Act

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Speaker 1: that's often swept aside a little bit because obviously we

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Speaker 1: we think about Clinton as as a really liberal president,

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Speaker 1: which he certainly was. At the same time, he signed

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Speaker 1: this legislation into law that had such harsh penalties for

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Speaker 1: a core of his supporters, which were you know, LGBT

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Speaker 1: voters who felt very betrayed by the fact it he

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Speaker 1: signed this. And in researching for the podcast, there are

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Speaker 1: some articles from the New York Times talking about his

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Speaker 1: apparent conflict was signing it. He did it at one

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Speaker 1: in the morning after he had just come back to

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Speaker 1: the White House from a trip, and he did it

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Speaker 1: late at night because there wouldn't be pressed around. He

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Speaker 1: didn't want photographic evidence of him signing. He didn't want

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Speaker 1: a formal signing session. Uh for this bill that he

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Speaker 1: would remain pretty conflicted about. And he released his statement

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Speaker 1: prior to him signing DOMA, and he said, I've long

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Speaker 1: opposed governmental recognition of same gender marriages, and this legislation

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Speaker 1: is consistent with that position. The Act confirms the right

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Speaker 1: of each state to determine its own policy with respect

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Speaker 1: of the same gender marriage, and clarifies, for the purposes

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Speaker 1: of federal law the operative meaning of the terms marriage

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Speaker 1: and spouse. And while Clinton has certainly recanted in a

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Speaker 1: way for signing DOMA and obviously is publicly pro gay

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Speaker 1: marriage now and is a supporter of rights, equal rights

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Speaker 1: for LGBT people. Um, that does not erase what DOMA did.

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Speaker 1: So what did DOMA do well? It discriminated Christen Yeah. Um,

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Speaker 1: there are two specific sections that we should focus on.

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Speaker 1: Those are sections two and three of the Act. Section

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Speaker 1: two says that states may disrespect the marriages of same

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Speaker 1: sex couples if they choose as a matter of their

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Speaker 1: own public policy. That puts it on the states. Section three, however,

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Speaker 1: that's what the focus of this big Supreme Court decision was.

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Speaker 1: Section three applied only to the federal government. It overrides

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Speaker 1: state law to say that same sex couples are not

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Speaker 1: married in the eyes of the federal government, and that

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Speaker 1: marriages aren't recognized for the purpose of federal laws and programs.

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Speaker 1: The word marriage only applies to heterosexual couples, and spouse

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Speaker 1: only refers to an opposite sex partner. And this, my friends,

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Speaker 1: is what the Supreme Court struck down because it violates

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Speaker 1: the Constitution's Equal Protection clause. Yeah, that part about the

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Speaker 1: states still having the legislative power to disrespect marriages of

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Speaker 1: same sex couples if they choose as a matter of

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Speaker 1: their own public policy is still in place. I don't

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Speaker 1: believe it. Scotus ruled on section two. It more struck

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Speaker 1: down section three. But what that meant in more practical

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Speaker 1: terms for same sex couples was not just that they

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Speaker 1: couldn't get married. It effectively established more than one thousand

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Speaker 1: federal laws relating to marital status, which in turn denied

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Speaker 1: gay couples a host of rights, including preventing them from

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Speaker 1: obtaining government healthcare benefits that they would otherwise receive. It

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Speaker 1: deprived them of the Bankruptcy Code special protections for domestic

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Speaker 1: support obligations, forced them to follow a complicated procedure to

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Speaker 1: follow their state and federal taxes jointly. It prohibited them

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Speaker 1: from being buried together in veterans cemeteries. It raised the

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Speaker 1: cost of health care for families by taxing health benefits

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Speaker 1: provided by employers to their workers same sex spouses. It

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Speaker 1: also denied or reduced benefits allowed to families uppon the

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Speaker 1: loss of a spouse or parent, restricted hospital visitation rights,

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Speaker 1: denied them health insurance for spouses of federal workers. Uh.

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Speaker 1: It denied them a state and gift tax exemptions, which

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Speaker 1: is something we will come back to. And it also

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Speaker 1: denied them the ability to automatically file those joint income taxes,

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Speaker 1: possibly meaning that they lost on thousands of dollars per year.

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Speaker 1: And that's just the start of it, because again, this

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Speaker 1: established more than one thousand federal laws. Well, but let's

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Speaker 1: look at some some positives. Let's positive pull me out, Caroline,

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Speaker 1: I'm throwing your rope, Christen, and not to hang yourself with.

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Speaker 1: Come on out of that hole, all right. So, uh,

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Speaker 1: let's look at some gay marriage milestones, some some strides

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Speaker 1: that have been made. And in California passed its first

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Speaker 1: statewide domestic partner law and continued to expand it. In

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Speaker 1: January two thousand, they began registering domestic partners. So also

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Speaker 1: in in December of that year, Vermont passed the first

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Speaker 1: civil union law, which took effect in two thousand. It

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Speaker 1: ruled that gay couples should have the same rights as

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Speaker 1: heterosexual couples. And in November two thousand three, we have

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Speaker 1: the case Goodridge versus Department of Public Health, a decision

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Speaker 1: that paved the way from Massachusetts to become the first

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Speaker 1: state to actually legalize gay marriage. And while there are

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Speaker 1: plenty of other milestones that we could touch on, just

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Speaker 1: for time's stake, let's go ahead and move to the

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court case that overturned that Section three of DOMA

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Speaker 1: that everyone has been celebrating recently. This is the case

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Speaker 1: Winsor versus United States, and at issue was whether or

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Speaker 1: not section three of the Defensive Marriage Act, which defines

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Speaker 1: the term marriages for all purposes under federal law as

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Speaker 1: quote only a legal union between one man and one

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Speaker 1: woman as husband and wife. Whether that deprives same sex

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Speaker 1: couples who are lawfully married under the laws of their state,

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Speaker 1: such as New York, of equal protection of the laws

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Speaker 1: as guaranteed by the Fifth Amendment of the Constitution of

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Speaker 1: the United States. Yeah, so who was at the center

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Speaker 1: of this. She's been in the news quite a bit.

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Speaker 1: She's fascinating and fabulous and has fantastic hair. Eadie Windsor,

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Speaker 1: who was with her partner, THEA Spire for forty two years.

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Speaker 1: They got married in two thousand seven in Toronto. Now,

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Speaker 1: when THEA passed away, Eadie was strapped with a three

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Speaker 1: hundred and sixty three thousand and fifty three dollars inheritance

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Speaker 1: tax bill, and she fought it in court, the argument

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Speaker 1: being that they weren't legally married in the United States,

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Speaker 1: so Winsor had to pay this tax bill. Now, if

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Speaker 1: the government had recognized the marriage between the two, under

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Speaker 1: federal laws, spouse who dies can leave her assets to

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Speaker 1: the other spouse without incurring estate taxes. Uh So, Now

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Speaker 1: eighty three year old ead she's a spitfire, and she

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Speaker 1: went to court to claim that the federal estate tax

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Speaker 1: exemption was denied to her by DOMA. Right. That's because

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Speaker 1: it's under DOMA. Like we I mentioned in that Terrible

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Speaker 1: Laundry list of examples of how it restricts rights for

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Speaker 1: gay couples. One of the things that it denies gay

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Speaker 1: couples estate and gift tax exemptions which would have prevented

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Speaker 1: Windsor from being charged that three sixty three thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: And if you want to learn more about Edi and

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Speaker 1: Thea's relationship, there is a great documentary that you can

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Speaker 1: watch called Dan THEA A very long engagement talking about

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Speaker 1: their their forty two year plus relationship. Um. But Windsor

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Speaker 1: brought this court case and the Supreme Court heard it.

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Speaker 1: In writing for the Court majority, Justice Kennedy said, this

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Speaker 1: doma places same sex couples in an unstable position of

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Speaker 1: being in a second tier marriage. And he also wrote,

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Speaker 1: the avowed purpose and practical effect of the law here

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Speaker 1: in question are to impose a disadvantage, a separate status,

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Speaker 1: and so a stigma upon all who enter in the

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Speaker 1: same sex marriages made lawful by the unquestioned authority of

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Speaker 1: the States. And for that and other reasons, the Court

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Speaker 1: ruled five to four in favor of Windsor, striking down

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Speaker 1: effectively Section three of the Defensive Marriage Act. Right, Well,

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Speaker 1: so how does Prop eight tie into any of this?

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Speaker 1: I mean Prop eight is also going on throughout all

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Speaker 1: of this time too. Let's look at a brief history

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Speaker 1: of that and how it ties in. So, in March

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Speaker 1: two thousand, we have six of California voters approving a

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Speaker 1: ballot measure, which was Prop two, declaring that marriage should

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Speaker 1: remain between opposite sex couples. Asked forward to May two

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Speaker 1: thous eight, the California Supreme Court struck down Prop. Twenty two,

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Speaker 1: and it's ruling that the state protects a fundamental right

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Speaker 1: to marry that should also extend to same sex couples.

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Speaker 1: So then in November of that year, November two thousand eight, UH,

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Speaker 1: the California Marriage Protection Act, or Prop eight passes with

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Speaker 1: fifty two percent of the vote and then effectively made

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Speaker 1: gay marriage illegal in California. But of course, as we know,

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Speaker 1: the fight did not stop there. In August of the U. S.

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Speaker 1: District Court ruled that profit was unconstitutional, and in February

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Speaker 1: two thou twelve, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals upholds

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Speaker 1: that profit ruling, saying that Proposition eight serves no purpose

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Speaker 1: and has no effect other than to less in the

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Speaker 1: status and human dignity of gay men and lesbians in California.

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Speaker 1: And then in December of two thousand twelve, the Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court agreed to hear profit arguments because as the proponents

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Speaker 1: and so it rises all the way up to the

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court. The Supreme Court says, sure, we'll hear your arguments,

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Speaker 1: and then on that historic day June, the Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: ruled that Protect Marriage, which was an ad hoc group

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Speaker 1: defending Proposition eight. The California government did not argue in

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Speaker 1: favor of Proposition eight in front of the Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: because the government was not in support of it. So

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Speaker 1: you have this ad hoc group Protect Marriage coming to

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Speaker 1: argue it, and so the Supreme Court said that Protect Marriage.

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Speaker 1: The ad hoc group did not have the legal authority

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Speaker 1: to appeal the injunction against banning gay marriage, which sent

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Speaker 1: the decision back to the lower court, which had already

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Speaker 1: declared it unconstitutional. Which is why gay marriage became legal

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Speaker 1: again in California that day. Because the thing is, the

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court did not rule Proposition eight as unconstitutional. It

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Speaker 1: basically said, you know what, we are sending this back

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Speaker 1: to the lower court because ad hoc group Protect Marriage,

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Speaker 1: you don't even have the legal authority to be doing this. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're not an agent of the state exactly, so they

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Speaker 1: sent it back down because all the lower courts had

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Speaker 1: already ruled it unconstitutional. But I mean not surprisingly, protect

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Speaker 1: Marriage cried foul when that happened, and people immediately started

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Speaker 1: getting married, right including Prop eight plane of Chris Perry

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Speaker 1: and Sandy Steer, who became the first couple to marry

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Speaker 1: in California after the decision. The other plane of couple,

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Speaker 1: Paul Katami and Jeff Zerrilla, were also married soon after.

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Speaker 1: But because those marriages started taking place on the same

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Speaker 1: day hours after the Supreme Court handed down its decision,

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Speaker 1: protect Marriage said that those marriages should not be taking

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Speaker 1: place because the decision wasn't legally final. But it did

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Speaker 1: not matter because the Ninth Circuit panel had already lifted

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Speaker 1: the whole on hold on gay marriage. They actually sped

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Speaker 1: up the process for lifting that band to allow gay

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Speaker 1: marriage to start happening or to resume I should say,

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Speaker 1: in California. So finally, yeah, but I mean, it happens. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but the story, the story doesn't in there because we

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Speaker 1: have this ruling, but not everything is all puppies and

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Speaker 1: kittens exactly, Because we have a federal ruling that Section three,

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Speaker 1: which only applies to federal law is unconstitutional. So in

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Speaker 1: the eyes of federal law, same sex marriage is recognized.

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Speaker 1: But when you go to a state by state basis,

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Speaker 1: in a majority of states, they are not going to

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Speaker 1: by state law recognize same sex marriage. So what is

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Speaker 1: going to happen? There are some some good things because

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Speaker 1: of that federal law. There are a lot of benefits,

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Speaker 1: such as binational couples now are able to pursue green

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Speaker 1: cards for the foreign spouse. I want to give a

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Speaker 1: shout out now to listener Andrew and his Spanish husband.

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Speaker 1: He'd posted on Facebook that he can now bring his

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Speaker 1: husband home to the U S. Which is awesome. They've

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Speaker 1: been longtime listeners, so I just want to issue a

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Speaker 1: giant congratulations for that. Did you'll ever come to Atlanta?

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Speaker 1: You know you should hit us up? Yeah, we're around. Um.

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Speaker 1: There's also try and pop Off, who's a Bulgarian immigrant.

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Speaker 1: He's been living in Florida with his husband legally for

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Speaker 1: the past thirteen years thanks to student visas. He was

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Speaker 1: the first to get a permanent visa after DEMO was

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Speaker 1: struck down. Yeah, the U S Immigration and Citizenship Services,

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Speaker 1: it's a mouthful to a sibilant sound. Yes, they've actually

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Speaker 1: been keeping a list of same sex applicants and anticipation

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Speaker 1: of DOMA being overturned. So the people who have already

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Speaker 1: applied who would not have gotten the green card because

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Speaker 1: of DOMA, they don't have to reapply. So for couples

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Speaker 1: applying for green cards, hopefully that process should be fairly quick,

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Speaker 1: especially by federal bureaucracy standards. But you know who just

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Speaker 1: got a ton of work piled on their desks. Immigration attorneys,

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Speaker 1: estate planners, accountants, wedding planners in states where gay marriage

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Speaker 1: is illegal because of this switch in the federal tax

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Speaker 1: code and all of those one thousand federal statutes relating

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Speaker 1: to the definition of marriage, it changes how business is

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Speaker 1: now going to be conducted. But then also with that

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Speaker 1: question of which trump's which state law or federal law. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then where do you say that the marriage happened

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Speaker 1: the home state of the individuals or the place where

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Speaker 1: the wedding took place. That's called the celebration state. Which

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Speaker 1: the question with all of it is do we let

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Speaker 1: the celebration state rule? So basically, if you got married,

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Speaker 1: if you're in the same sex couple and you get married,

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Speaker 1: in New York. New York is your celebration state. But

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Speaker 1: then if you come to Georgia, where we live, which

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Speaker 1: is a not so celebratory state, and if Georgia is

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Speaker 1: your home state, and then tax time comes around, the

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Speaker 1: question is how do you file. Do you file as

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Speaker 1: a married couple because in your celebration state that's how

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Speaker 1: you're recognized, or does it apply to your home state?

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Speaker 1: So do you have to file separately per Georgia law.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of sticky. And after the ruling, if I'm

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Speaker 1: not mistaken, I mean, they asked Obama what his thoughts

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Speaker 1: on this were, and he said that, you know, he

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Speaker 1: kind of made a vague statement as far as marriage

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Speaker 1: is marriage and if you're married in one state, you

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Speaker 1: should be. But that doesn't mean that that's automatically going

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Speaker 1: to happen for sure, but some some things that are

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Speaker 1: going to happen. Uh. Federal workers will receive benefits no

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Speaker 1: matter whether their home state recognizes gay marriage or not.

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Speaker 1: And if you're a military family living in a state

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Speaker 1: with marriage equality, you will be granted federal benefits including

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Speaker 1: military health insurance, increased base and housing allowances, relocation assistance,

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Speaker 1: and surviving spousal benefits. But that's that question of celebration

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Speaker 1: state versus home state. Uh, you know when you're being transferred,

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Speaker 1: that's still in play. Yeah, the i r S is

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Speaker 1: going to have to decide how to determine marriage status

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Speaker 1: when they figure out tax status, because there are hundred

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Speaker 1: and ninety eight separate tax code provisions tied to marital status.

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Speaker 1: As if taxes need to get more complicated now, the

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Speaker 1: I R S is already examined some issue and for

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Speaker 1: things like Social Security, there's another question there of the

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Speaker 1: celebration state versus home state because family and spousal protections

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Speaker 1: relating to Social Security use a wage earners primary state

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Speaker 1: of residents as guidance for marriage recognition. So again that's

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Speaker 1: raising the question of what whether social security benefits can

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Speaker 1: be extended if you're living in a state that does

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Speaker 1: not have legalized gay marriage. So while there is a

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Speaker 1: lot to celebrate, it's clear that, you know, the overturning

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Speaker 1: of Section three of the Defensive Marriage Act is by

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Speaker 1: no means the end of the fight towards total and

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Speaker 1: complete equality. It's a big deal that federally it has

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Speaker 1: been recognized and that the definition the federal definition of

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Speaker 1: marriage has been struck down from just being exclusively between

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Speaker 1: men and women. But we have fifty states to get through,

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Speaker 1: and and the question is whether or not there's going

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Speaker 1: to be another case in which the Supreme Court will

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Speaker 1: basically make gay marriage a lava land. Obviously by keeping

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Speaker 1: Section two intact, they want to leave it up to

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Speaker 1: the sovereignty of the states to decide um. But and

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Speaker 1: maybe that will happen sooner rather than later, because there's

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Speaker 1: this kind of momentum. But I don't know. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we're sitting here in Georgia and I don't see that

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Speaker 1: happening anytime soon. Now. One state, UH that we will

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Speaker 1: have to keep an eye on, as Michigan there um.

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Speaker 1: This is coming from the advocate UH. Plaintiffs Jane Rouse

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Speaker 1: and April DeBoer have brought a lawsuit because they were

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Speaker 1: being denied the ability to jointly adopt three children and

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Speaker 1: are citing this recent DOMA decision, and the trial was

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Speaker 1: scheduled for July tenth. So we we should keep an

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Speaker 1: eye on that. And maybe we should just like get

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Speaker 1: out a map, like a coloring book map and start

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Speaker 1: coloring in state. Yeah, I mean, because that's that's the

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Speaker 1: question is whether or not Michigan will be uh the

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Speaker 1: next to overturn its same sex marriage band based on

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Speaker 1: this DOMA ruling, which could be huge because that means

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Speaker 1: if it succeeds in doing so in Michigan, then I'm

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Speaker 1: sure you know there will be cases in other states

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Speaker 1: that will take its q which is why the timeline

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Speaker 1: for a state by state oh returning of same sex

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Speaker 1: marriage bands could happen sooner rather than later, because that

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Speaker 1: federal precedent has been set. So I hope that this

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Speaker 1: was a helpful overview of DOMA. Like I said, it's

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Speaker 1: been a while since the decision happened, but maybe it's

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Speaker 1: even better to revisit it now that the initial dust

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Speaker 1: is settled, to figure out, okay, wait, where are we now? What?

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Speaker 1: What is exactly happening with all of this um And

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Speaker 1: I definitely want to hear from couples that this is affected.

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Speaker 1: I want to hear from any tax lawyers out there

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Speaker 1: who are now scrambling to figure out what to do.

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Speaker 1: If anyone's working for the I R S, how has

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Speaker 1: this impacted them, because there has With the Supreme Court decision,

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Speaker 1: the line from the White House has been to these

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Speaker 1: government branches that are most affected, like the I R

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Speaker 1: S and Social Security and Medicaid. It's figure it out

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Speaker 1: and figure it out fast, you know, to make make

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Speaker 1: the laws um apparent. So with that, send us your

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Speaker 1: thoughts mom stuff at Discovery dot com. You can tweet

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00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,479
Speaker 1: us at mom' stuf podcast and send us a message

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Speaker 1: on Facebook if you like. And we've got a couple

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Speaker 1: of messages to share with you. And now back to

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Speaker 1: little letters. Well, Caroline, our episode on short hair that

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Speaker 1: we didn't a while ago cut so much attention. Let's

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Speaker 1: write some more letters about that. How about um? I've

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Speaker 1: got one here from Chad. His subject line is from

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Speaker 1: a guy who cut his long hair for an iPod. Alright,

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Speaker 1: says high ladies. Oh hey, Jadad, I just listened to

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Speaker 1: your podcast about woman with short hair. As a younger man,

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Speaker 1: I wore my hair long for about ten years. I

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Speaker 1: started growing it in college when I was stating the

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Speaker 1: woman who was now my wife. I just grew tired

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Speaker 1: of it, but I decided to use it as a

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Speaker 1: bargaining chip. My dad has always hated long hair on guys,

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Speaker 1: especially me. When we were visiting my parents one Christmas,

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Speaker 1: I told my dad that if he bought me a

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Speaker 1: new iPod, I would cut my hair short. We went

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Speaker 1: to a store that night and I picked out my iPod.

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Speaker 1: I got a hair cut the next day and donated

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Speaker 1: it two locks of love. My wife also did the same.

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Speaker 1: Even though it is now two thousand thirteen, I still

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Speaker 1: use that iPod he bought it in two thousand six

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Speaker 1: h It works well and I have never gotten another.

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Speaker 1: I listened to you ladies on the same iPod to

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Speaker 1: this day. Incidentally, it was not emotional for me to

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Speaker 1: cut my hair. I was ready to be done with it,

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Speaker 1: and I've kept it short since. My wife, however, still

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Speaker 1: has emotional feelings about my short hair. She grew her

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Speaker 1: hair along again and frequently mentions that I should grow

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Speaker 1: it out again because she misses it. Who knows, maybe

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Speaker 1: if I grow it out again, there will be a

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Speaker 1: new iPad in my future. Hey, good thing in Chad Christen.

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Speaker 1: This letter is from listener Jennifer. She said, I lost

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Speaker 1: all my hair going through chemo for breast cancer a

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Speaker 1: few years ago. When it started to grow back, I

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Speaker 1: found a stylist who does wonderful, funky things with really

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Speaker 1: short hair. I've gotten so many compliments that I've kept

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Speaker 1: it short for more than two years. Now I'm growing

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Speaker 1: it out, not because I don't like my hair short,

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Speaker 1: but because it's a reminder of my cancer and I'm

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Speaker 1: ready to move forward. So thank you, Jennifer, Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: thanks to everyone else too has written in mom Stuff

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Speaker 1: of Discovery dot com is our email address. You can

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00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 1: also message this on Facebook or tweet us at mom

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Speaker 1: Stuff Podcast. We're on Tumbler as well. You should check

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00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 1: us out where it's stuff mom Never Told You dot

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00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: tumbler dot com. And you can watch us as well

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Speaker 1: on YouTube. Become matchup four times a week on there.

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Speaker 1: So head over to YouTube dot com slash stuff mom

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00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: Never Told You, and be kind and subscribed for more

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Speaker 1: on this and thousands of other topics. Doesn't how stuff

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Speaker 1: works dot com