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Speaker 1: I'm with Lucas and this is Black Tech, Green Money

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Speaker 1: afro Techo Austin, Texas. On the main stage is Stephanie

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Speaker 1: ung Vogel, who was Associate director of editorial at Braavity.

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Speaker 1: She's facilitating a conversation with Tim Henshaw, who's head of

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Speaker 1: Hip Hop and I n B A Amazon Music, and

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Speaker 1: Wallace Joseph, VP of A and R at Warner Chapel Music.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of money in the music business. The

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Speaker 1: sum is quite obvious even to the layman, but the

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Speaker 1: fine print on the contract is where the real money is.

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Speaker 1: When you're not paying attention. This is where you get

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Speaker 1: got publishing, extreaming, music rights and more. On this episode,

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Speaker 1: let's talk to business and hip hop. How y'all doing

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Speaker 1: out pro Tech Well, thank you all so much for

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Speaker 1: coming out. I know it's real early and it's real

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Speaker 1: cold in Austin, Texas, or if you're streaming on the

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Speaker 1: afro Tech app, thank you all for checking us out today.

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Speaker 1: I have two wonderful jam them in today to speak

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Speaker 1: some hip hop with us. Let me tell you a

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Speaker 1: little bit about the the panel we're gonna be having today,

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Speaker 1: So we're gonna be talking about the business of hip hop?

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Speaker 1: Is anybody here into the into music, doing music, interested

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Speaker 1: in the music industry? Yeah, came to the right place.

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Speaker 1: So we're gonna be diving into the specifics of the streaming, music, rights, marketing,

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Speaker 1: and the future of the music industry. I have two

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Speaker 1: incredible gentlemen right here to my right. Um. First, we

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Speaker 1: have Tim his Shaw. I want you to go ahead

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Speaker 1: and introduce yourself. Yeah, you can do it better than

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Speaker 1: I care. My name is Tennan Shaw from the West

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Speaker 1: side of Calm Thing. I've been at Amazon for four years,

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Speaker 1: decided to be here today. I lead the Rotation team,

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Speaker 1: which is the hip hop and r B team on

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Speaker 1: the Amazon Music tide Um, and we've been doing, you know,

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Speaker 1: some some really cool stuff. The team is collectively compromised

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Speaker 1: of black and brown professionals and really excited about the

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Speaker 1: representation that we have and it takes place. Yeah, give

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Speaker 1: it up a Tim, Yeah, alright, and we got Wallace Joseph.

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Speaker 1: Go ahead and introduce yourself. Let people know who you was.

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Speaker 1: What's going on everybody on Wallace Joseph. I'm originally from

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Speaker 1: Palm Las Florida. I now reside in l A for

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Speaker 1: the last nine years and I'm grateful to be here,

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Speaker 1: and then you got little one me. My name is Stephanie.

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Speaker 1: I'm the associate director at Levity Income, associate director of Editorial. Sorry,

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Speaker 1: I oversee all of the editorial at Bravity, all the

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Speaker 1: five brands. But before joining Bravity, the wonderful, wonderful Company

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Speaker 1: of Bravity, I actually was in the entertainment industry myself,

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Speaker 1: doing management and I was based right here in Austin, Texas.

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Speaker 1: This is my home, Hook and Warrens. I feel like

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Speaker 1: I'm the only person here in Texas or from Texas.

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Speaker 1: I got people from Texas. So if you were born,

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Speaker 1: if you were born in Texas, live in Texas, or

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Speaker 1: you still live in Texas, can I get it already? Already?

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Speaker 1: That sounds so beautiful. And again, you could be anywhere

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Speaker 1: in the world right now, but you are here with us,

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Speaker 1: So let's go ahead and get started. Um. I didn't

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Speaker 1: want to start too heavy, but I'd be remiss if

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Speaker 1: I didn't. So I wanted to talk about something and

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Speaker 1: that is kind of leading the discussion in hip hop

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Speaker 1: right now. Um. It seems like every year for or

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Speaker 1: literally every for the past couple of years, rather we

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Speaker 1: have been losing a lot of men and women in

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Speaker 1: hip hop to gun violence. UM. Some that have been

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Speaker 1: people that we know, some that are people we worked with,

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Speaker 1: the Nipsey Pop Smoke, Young Dolph Mo three in Dallas,

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Speaker 1: P and b Rock, a lot of Cash deskto in Houston. UM,

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Speaker 1: and of course most recently A Brother take Off, r

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Speaker 1: I P Takeoff. UM. But it seems like a common

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Speaker 1: theme after these senseless killings seems to be to blame

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Speaker 1: hip hop. So I wanted to start here because I

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Speaker 1: want to know for you guys, what are your thoughts

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Speaker 1: around this narrative that hip hop is to blame for

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Speaker 1: the gun violence. Yeah. I think, um, first off, like

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Speaker 1: condulas is to take off family, UM and the whole

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Speaker 1: QC family and everything they're going through. UM. I think

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Speaker 1: hip hop is just an easy target. UM. It's easy

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Speaker 1: for politicians and the powers that be to get on

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Speaker 1: these platforms and and sort of like put this indictment

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Speaker 1: against hip hop music. But I think Kendrick Lamar summed

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Speaker 1: it up kind of perfectly in a Hard Part of five, UM,

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Speaker 1: just talking about like our culture, the streets, the streets culture,

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Speaker 1: and how that kind of just spills over until hip

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Speaker 1: hop just because a lot of these artists, you know,

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Speaker 1: they don't feel like they need to divert from where

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Speaker 1: they come from, um holistically, and I think that just

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Speaker 1: kind of keeps the authenticity of who they are UM.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's important. But I feel like, you know,

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Speaker 1: we're just like right there, and it'll like to to

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Speaker 1: to be the easy target and to have like talking

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Speaker 1: points for people to not be able to go and say, Okay,

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Speaker 1: well let's fix our gun laws or let's fix um,

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Speaker 1: you know, just our environment or community, or let's get

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Speaker 1: these young kids jobs so they don't have to go

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Speaker 1: out flocking or you know, breaking in stuff and taking

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Speaker 1: stuff from from from folks. So I think that's a

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Speaker 1: big part of it for me. I think hip hop

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Speaker 1: has become an easy target, um, simply because of the

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Speaker 1: growth of hip hop and a lot of people can't

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Speaker 1: stand the bear honestly. So you will find a lot

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Speaker 1: of people in our industry, UM who maybe the powers

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Speaker 1: that be find excuses to put the blame on certain individuals. UM.

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Speaker 1: But sometimes all you know is your upbringing, and these

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Speaker 1: guys are telling their stories, UM. But their stories are reality.

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Speaker 1: You know. Sometimes people will sign a check and say

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Speaker 1: go do your thing. Uh, but I think it's executives.

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Speaker 1: We have a social responsibility and sometimes that that's not

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Speaker 1: abodied by by the people at the top. UM, And

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Speaker 1: that's why there's people like me and Tim here to

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Speaker 1: make those changes. And UM dig a little deeper, UM,

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Speaker 1: go under the surface and just like really say, hey,

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Speaker 1: look what business am I getting to? Who am I signing?

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Speaker 1: Do I know your family? What is the relationship? And

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Speaker 1: how can I help change that narrative? Um? But I

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Speaker 1: think hip hop is a beautiful place. I don't think, Um,

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Speaker 1: there is changes that we need in our community. But

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Speaker 1: hip hop is not solely to blame. There's systemic oppression

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Speaker 1: over a long period of time that has God is here.

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Speaker 1: But I think I would like mine individuals we can

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Speaker 1: get together and make a change of hip hop. I

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Speaker 1: love the fact that you mentioned the social responsibility of

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Speaker 1: music executives because I feel that that's one thing that

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Speaker 1: a lot of people. I hear the chatter, a lot

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Speaker 1: of people really want to know what is it that

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Speaker 1: exacts can do? Um, you touched on it a little bit,

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Speaker 1: but I could you go into a detail a little bit.

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Speaker 1: When I when I signed an act for me, I'm

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Speaker 1: just not partaking just doing business. I take a social responsibility.

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Speaker 1: You become family to me. So my job to any

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Speaker 1: artists or any writer, any producer that I deal with

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Speaker 1: is challenging, is to let them give them the opportunity

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Speaker 1: to build and grow. Um in the space of like,

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Speaker 1: hey you may have this, you may have this money, now,

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Speaker 1: you may have this new found wealth. Here's some opportunities.

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Speaker 1: Here's some things that you could do. I go sit

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Speaker 1: with my writer. Um, it's not just about business for

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Speaker 1: me when they're down, when they have a loss of

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Speaker 1: life in their family. I was there for pnb Rock,

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Speaker 1: We worked with him. I was there for a little kid.

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Speaker 1: We work with him, and we lost those guys. And

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Speaker 1: like when we when we lose some of these guys, like,

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Speaker 1: it's a lot on us because I spend most of

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Speaker 1: my life and time with these acts more than I

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Speaker 1: do with my family. So it's the personal thing for me.

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Speaker 1: So my job is just spending time with an act

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Speaker 1: and say, hey, look like it's much more to life

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Speaker 1: than just what's going on is let's try this, Let's

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Speaker 1: go here, let's go vacation, Let's take a trip, Let's

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Speaker 1: go see the other side of the world. Doing other

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Speaker 1: things than just the normal. Yeah, I humanize all my relationships.

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Speaker 1: I don't just do business with anybody, like yo, let's

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Speaker 1: have a personal relationship more than just business. That's important

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Speaker 1: Like for me, like it's more so like on the

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Speaker 1: executive side and information sharing with like the kids in

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Speaker 1: my hood. I'm in my hood like a lot, just

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Speaker 1: like mind everybody where you're from from the west side

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Speaker 1: of the conference. Um. But when I was growing up,

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Speaker 1: like I didn't have sort of examples to to say like, yo,

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Speaker 1: you can be in the music industry and you can

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Speaker 1: you know, being being our working publishing or work behind

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Speaker 1: the scenes and make a lucative living for yourself and

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Speaker 1: your family. So for me, it was like, how can

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Speaker 1: I find like minded kids in my neighborhood who have

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Speaker 1: sort of ambitious in the music industry and want a

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Speaker 1: better life for themselves. How can I create a pipeline

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Speaker 1: for them to be in these rooms? Because I couldn't

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Speaker 1: get an internship. I didn't go to college. Um, so

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Speaker 1: all these internships with these record labels you had to

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Speaker 1: being enrolled in college or whatever. But now it's like,

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Speaker 1: how do we find those uh different ways or avenues

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Speaker 1: for for these people in these communities to help better

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Speaker 1: themselves and explore other opportunities other than what they see

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Speaker 1: you on TV, as as what black men, what successful

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Speaker 1: black men should be or it could be is like

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Speaker 1: pushing that there of like either a rapper or a

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Speaker 1: sports player or whatever. But it's like there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of opportunities and avenues. So really being visible, um and

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Speaker 1: sharing that information is important. I think that's that's true.

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Speaker 1: I think information is so important. Um. Once you have

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Speaker 1: the information, you have the access. And I want when

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Speaker 1: I tell my guys when I deal with them, it's

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Speaker 1: like when you're sleeping, I want you to be making money. UM.

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Speaker 1: So that's showing them how to build a viable, sustainable business.

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Speaker 1: That shown them how to understand that the legalities are publishing,

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Speaker 1: like how to break down a deal, how what business

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Speaker 1: makes sense. You see a lot of time with guys

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Speaker 1: like yeo, I signed a bad deal, um, and that's

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Speaker 1: not always the case. So my job when I went

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Speaker 1: on the inside is to educate people that look like me,

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Speaker 1: and that's why we're here. Absolutely, that's why we have

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Speaker 1: this panel. The day. So, I mean we talked a

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Speaker 1: little bit or I kind of mentioned a little bit

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Speaker 1: about the chatter, the chatter that we're hearing, and we

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Speaker 1: had a conversation last week. I don't want to let

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Speaker 1: the public be privy to this, if you don't mind

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Speaker 1: me speeling the tea real quick and letting the public

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Speaker 1: be privy to this conversation. So we were talking a

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Speaker 1: little bit about hip hop's rain and where hip hop

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Speaker 1: is as far as um. You know, we know that

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Speaker 1: we love hip hop, but it's hip hop doing the

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Speaker 1: numbers now. Of course, Drake and Savage released her loss

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Speaker 1: and it took over the Billboard charts, but how well

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Speaker 1: is hip hop doing? It's hip hop's rain dying. So

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Speaker 1: while it's you have had some great uh commentary regarding that.

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Speaker 1: So I do want to start with you so you

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Speaker 1: can kind of recap the conversation a little bit. I

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Speaker 1: think about our conversation last week. Um, when I came

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Speaker 1: into the publics and world, I came into the publics

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Speaker 1: world seen and hip hop wasn't the rain because people

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Speaker 1: were making the move from physical self to digital and

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Speaker 1: the business of hip hop was figuring out how the

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Speaker 1: streaming world would work for us, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: people couldn't convert because we're still old used to the

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Speaker 1: old system of like gil ced sales. There's more money

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Speaker 1: there and it was a hard transition for hip hop.

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Speaker 1: But speeding up into the year, I've seen hip hop

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Speaker 1: take off and other genres that were much more popular

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Speaker 1: at the time started taking back seat to that genre

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Speaker 1: and people had to adapt. People had to you know,

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Speaker 1: a lot of pop genres like, yeah, let me find

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Speaker 1: the popular rap artists and feature them on my song,

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Speaker 1: because I know that's going to help take my song

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Speaker 1: to number one or extend the life of the song. Um.

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Speaker 1: But for me, what I'm realizing now, we're seeing a

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Speaker 1: lot of narratives of like hip hop is dying Um.

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Speaker 1: I think hip hop is one of the most impactful

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Speaker 1: uh music in the culture, and a lot of people

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Speaker 1: can't stand to see it. It's just the honest truth.

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Speaker 1: And um, you see these articles are being written hip

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Speaker 1: hop is dying off. It's hip hop losing its theme.

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's losing its steam at all. I

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Speaker 1: think hip hop is strengthening itself. It's one of the

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Speaker 1: most dominant genres in the world and our business, hip

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Speaker 1: hop controls everything else. If hip hop is down, pop

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Speaker 1: is down, k pop is down. Latin music is down,

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Speaker 1: so um for me, I don't think it's losing its

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Speaker 1: frame at all. Um. Those people, as they say, they

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Speaker 1: want you to say, hey, look, hip hop is down,

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Speaker 1: but it's not. Drake in twenty one just sold Summer

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Speaker 1: Walker bro every record as an R and B artist.

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Speaker 1: So the hundred seventy five thousand first week, Um, I

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Speaker 1: think it's here to stay. I don't think we're going anywhere.

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Speaker 1: But there is a narrative out there to downplay our music.

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Speaker 1: But I don't think. I don't think that's the issue,

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Speaker 1: and you can just you can talk about it. I think,

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Speaker 1: like when Walla says, like the Day, I feel like

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Speaker 1: it's a just a reaction of like old gate keepers

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Speaker 1: not being able to to to like two thousand nine.

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Speaker 1: They could force feed us Usher on Max Martin Records

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Speaker 1: or OMG like that pop sound. They could force feed

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Speaker 1: it to us because radio is prominent, they play it

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Speaker 1: all day. It's like, yo, we kind of like it,

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Speaker 1: we kind of don't, but we'll hear it all day. Now.

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Speaker 1: It's like these kids open these they open Amazon Music

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Speaker 1: and they click on these songs and they listen to

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Speaker 1: the songs that they want to listen to the control.

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Speaker 1: So I think that control is gone. But I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, they just need to be realistic. Like hip

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Speaker 1: hop is not just a music, it's a culture, and

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Speaker 1: it's a pillar of black culture. And without black culture,

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Speaker 1: there's nothing else, right, Like I always the cool that's real.

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Speaker 1: Like you look at other artists and other genres who

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Speaker 1: who you think should have like such a world stop

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Speaker 1: and impact when they release music. It's not the same

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Speaker 1: when the kindra glamar as as, like when the Kindra

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Speaker 1: Glamire drops or Beyonce drops, like you see it, but

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Speaker 1: like it don't stick it, don't you know, you don't

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Speaker 1: really feel it how you feel when um, you know,

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Speaker 1: black culture comes to the mic. I agree. I mean

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Speaker 1: we can look at two weeks ago. I mean, just

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Speaker 1: to be honest, Taylor Shift dropping an album sold two

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Speaker 1: million records, but Drake and twenty one came right after that,

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Speaker 1: and that was the talk of everything, everyone's topic of discussion,

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Speaker 1: everyone's conversation. UM Our culture has an unidentified number attached

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Speaker 1: to it that you can't pay for UM. And sometimes

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Speaker 1: those people that sit in those seats try to misappropriate

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Speaker 1: it or create the narrative behind it and there's like

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Speaker 1: mine individuals like us, that's that's just not gonna let

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Speaker 1: it happen. Y'all can go ahead and clap it up

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Speaker 1: for you'all can go ahead. So Tim to add on

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Speaker 1: to that, Um, how is hip hop trending on the

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Speaker 1: DSP side? On the streaming side? Like are you seeing

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Speaker 1: numbers re fluctuating, going up? Still leading like this? It

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Speaker 1: is not even really close, So like that's why. That's why,

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Speaker 1: like being on a on on this side of it,

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Speaker 1: you see these headlines like come out, You're like, damn, like,

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Speaker 1: where is that coming from? Because we're seeing the numbers.

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Speaker 1: We're seeing people asked for hip hop on ALEXA and

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Speaker 1: a really really huge way. Um, And I think if

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Speaker 1: the numbers are down a little bit, you've got to

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Speaker 1: think about it. Like the pandemic pushed us out from

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Speaker 1: artists for two years. You think about the kind Tomorrow album.

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Speaker 1: I read something where he said he had been wanted

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Speaker 1: to put the album out, but you know a lot

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Speaker 1: of artists want to have rollouts, they wanted to go

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Speaker 1: on tour, so that music is pushed back. So you

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Speaker 1: think about Kindrick out of the market, You think about

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Speaker 1: Nikki out of the market, um. J Cole, a lot

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Speaker 1: of these titans who have sort of like a release. UM.

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Speaker 1: And maybe if the numbers slipped a little bits by

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Speaker 1: way of that, but absolutely I think that that's one

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Speaker 1: of those things where on the outside it looks one way,

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Speaker 1: on the inside it looks a completely different way. And

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Speaker 1: so um, and then there's the truth. You know, like

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Speaker 1: I said, you know, men a low women alaw numbers

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Speaker 1: can lie depending on what numbers you're looking at. But

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Speaker 1: the culture is the culture and is you can see

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Speaker 1: we run that. So that's the most important things. I'm

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Speaker 1: glad that we've got to have that conversation. UM, But

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Speaker 1: I want to take it back to the beginning because

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Speaker 1: of course we're here to educate about the music industry

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Speaker 1: and the music business. It's the business of hip hop panel.

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Speaker 1: So for those who are in the room right now

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Speaker 1: that are into music and want to get their feet

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Speaker 1: wet or whatever parts of the industry they're in, UM,

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Speaker 1: I want to ask you guys. Obviously we know that

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Speaker 1: artists surround themselves with people that they trust, but it

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Speaker 1: I want to get from you guys your suggestions as

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Speaker 1: far as who are the important members that every artist

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Speaker 1: should have on their team. UM, I think the most

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Speaker 1: important person is whoever is around that's gonna tell you

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Speaker 1: like yo, you need to chill out like you will,

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Speaker 1: like that person is most important. A lot of people,

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Speaker 1: you see it, you see what's going on with a

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Speaker 1: lot of like our heroes, they don't have those people

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Speaker 1: around UM to to be able to tell them like yo, listen,

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Speaker 1: like when you said that, he wasn't supposed to say

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Speaker 1: that and you wasn't supposed to say because X Y

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Speaker 1: and Z UM. I think that's the most important. And uh, lawyers,

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Speaker 1: like having the right lawyers um at who you know

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Speaker 1: you could be open with, who have your best interests

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Speaker 1: at hard A lot of these lawyers, just to be real, UM,

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Speaker 1: have a lot of like just back dealings with these

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Speaker 1: major companies, so you know that they're looking out for

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Speaker 1: the major companies as well as looking out for you

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Speaker 1: in certain instances. UM, but you really need to figure

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Speaker 1: out like who who um, who are those like right

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Speaker 1: people to lead you in the right way. And I

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Speaker 1: would say like just executives within these buildings, UM myself

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Speaker 1: while it's like being able to fight for these artists,

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Speaker 1: whether it's conversation, because I know what you're paying this artist,

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Speaker 1: I need you to have the same energy for UM.

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Speaker 1: I think those are probably, in my opinion, the most

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Speaker 1: important three. I think for in any arena that you

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Speaker 1: go into, it's finding like mine, individuals that you can

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Speaker 1: work with. A lot of people sometimes in any space

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Speaker 1: will like try to reach for the guy that's at

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Speaker 1: the top, and sometimes the guy that maybe the next

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Speaker 1: at the top of sitting right next to you. So

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Speaker 1: I always tell people look at the people to the

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Speaker 1: left and the right of you first before you go

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Speaker 1: reach it from the top. UM an executive always told

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Speaker 1: me when I read the chart, start at the bottom,

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Speaker 1: then work your way up because those people are grinding

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Speaker 1: and get to the top. So I always tell people

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Speaker 1: find people that are network across like like them, like

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Speaker 1: my individuals that you can grow with that share the

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Speaker 1: same vision. But in my space, important people are like

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Speaker 1: you know, finding someone that you can build with, that

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Speaker 1: can be a manager that believes in you when when

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Speaker 1: you're not hot and the phone stops ringing and that

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Speaker 1: person is still gonna pick up the phone and make

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Speaker 1: calls on your behalf. Finding a lawyer that believes in

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Speaker 1: you and I it's just here for a check UM,

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Speaker 1: finding the right person when you do a deal versus

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Speaker 1: A lot of people will say, hey, look I want

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Speaker 1: to get the biggest check, and it's it's in every

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Speaker 1: industry like that I want to cash out. But it's

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Speaker 1: not always about the dollar amount. It's the opportunity cost

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Speaker 1: that lies there to that people need to look at

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Speaker 1: and say, hey, look, this opportunity might be more worth

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Speaker 1: more than the dollar that I'm going to sign for,

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Speaker 1: and that may pay off in year three and year

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Speaker 1: four and year five where you look back and say, hey, look,

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Speaker 1: I've generated more money than I would have initially signing

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Speaker 1: this initial deal. Chasing money is probably my biggest mistake

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Speaker 1: in this music business for sure. Could you expand on that?

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Speaker 1: I think like when I first got into business, my

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Speaker 1: brother and now we started a publishing company like is

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Speaker 1: fresh out of high school UM, and we had two

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Speaker 1: deals on the table, and one of the deals, the

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Speaker 1: first deal that we got, the first offer that we

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Speaker 1: got it we just felt a love, like we felt

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Speaker 1: the energy. It was like like while I was just saying, like,

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Speaker 1: finding people who actually rock with you, rock with your

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Speaker 1: talent um and want to work with you and help

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Speaker 1: cultivate you to you know where you want to be.

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Speaker 1: Whereas the second deal we got was a lot of money.

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Speaker 1: It was like we kids from Confident, We're like, yo, okay,

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Speaker 1: we want to go this route. But it ended up

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Speaker 1: being the worst deal that we could have did, and

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Speaker 1: it like kind of just put us in the stage

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Speaker 1: of purgatory for a while. Um, and we should have

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Speaker 1: went with that that that that first deal, just because

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Speaker 1: it was like the energy was there, the vibe was there,

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Speaker 1: people like, actually, we're coming to the Confident, coming to

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Speaker 1: our city to actually meet with us, meet our family.

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Speaker 1: We didn't get that from the other company, but we

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Speaker 1: got the money. So, like, I think chasing money to

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Speaker 1: a certain extent because you gotta get your bag, but

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Speaker 1: like that's most important too, but like you gotta you

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Speaker 1: gotta make sure it's coming from the right places. Don't

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00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:04,920
Speaker 1: get blinded by the dollars, right yeah, but also get paid,

401
00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:10,359
Speaker 1: but get paid. I love something else that you mentioned Tim,

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Speaker 1: where you were talking about some of the most important

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Speaker 1: people on your team have to be in the building.

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Speaker 1: I think that that's something that a lot of people

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00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,760
Speaker 1: don't really mention, is that you have to really network

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Speaker 1: your your way into the building. Could you expand a

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00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:25,639
Speaker 1: little bit on because you talked about it a little bit,

408
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:27,400
Speaker 1: but I want you to expand a little bit about

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Speaker 1: who should an artist be linking with in the building. Um,

410
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:35,280
Speaker 1: just the people that know how to get stuff done.

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Speaker 1: Like a lot of times, and I'll just speak from

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Speaker 1: an executive standpoint, like there are a lot of executives

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00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:44,639
Speaker 1: who are scared to shake your table, like they're scared

414
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Speaker 1: to stand on the table and say no, we need

415
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:48,879
Speaker 1: to do this because X, Y and Z UM. And

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Speaker 1: I think if you find those people, whatever you're trying

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Speaker 1: to do, whatever initiative you're trying to get across, will

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Speaker 1: get done. Because for me, like, if I feel something,

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna shut up until like you, if you

420
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Speaker 1: tell me maybe that's the worst thing you can do,

421
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:03,920
Speaker 1: because I'm gonna be at your doors that every day.

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Speaker 1: Like yo, you said maybe, Like here's why I think

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00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,560
Speaker 1: we should get to it. Yes, um. And I think

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Speaker 1: I feel grateful that at the Amazon Music allows me

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Speaker 1: that sort of least to really fightful what I think

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Speaker 1: is right. And the team, like the team collectively, UM,

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00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,240
Speaker 1: we all have that same energy like if we feel

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Speaker 1: like it's a hill we need to die on, were gon,

429
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:27,120
Speaker 1: we're gon, we're gonna die on this. But you want

430
00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:29,879
Speaker 1: to find that advocate in the building. But that's also

431
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 1: a disruptor, somebody that will shake that table for you. Yeah,

432
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:39,399
Speaker 1: but disrupted and um that that that could just cause

433
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,040
Speaker 1: friction with other teams and being cross functional and stuff

434
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:44,480
Speaker 1: like that. You got how to like the right mix,

435
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 1: And it's a it's an art I learned just from

436
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:51,440
Speaker 1: being in certain rooms and seeing how people like carry

437
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,080
Speaker 1: themselves and the things that they use, the tools that

438
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:56,960
Speaker 1: they use to get their point across us. Just very

439
00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,760
Speaker 1: fortunate to being being those rooms. So I would say,

440
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,879
Speaker 1: like it's important for you to create space for yourself

441
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,720
Speaker 1: at these tables, but you also gotta make enough room

442
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 1: for other people to sit at the table with you

443
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 1: so they could fight these these these these fights with you. Yeah,

444
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 1: I think it's all about being finding that person that's

445
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,479
Speaker 1: your champion, someone that's gonna go to war for you,

446
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:19,960
Speaker 1: and that's gonna you know, like getting a deal across.

447
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,359
Speaker 1: Like I'll even speak from experience. Um, I know my

448
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 1: friends two days here, uh when we were going to

449
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 1: sign Summer Walker, and I told my boss, I was like, yeah,

450
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,399
Speaker 1: we gotta go see this new artist. I think she's next.

451
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:37,200
Speaker 1: He said, you know what, let's do it. We got

452
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 1: on the plane, uh, flew to Philly, took a car

453
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 1: from Philly, drove the d C and we've seen her

454
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 1: perform for the first time and it wasn't one of

455
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,399
Speaker 1: her best performances. And my boss looked at me and

456
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, we got this offer that we want

457
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:54,399
Speaker 1: to pass a huge number. We gotta go sell it

458
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 1: to these people at the top. It's like, I'm not sure,

459
00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,719
Speaker 1: but I championed it, and he believed, and we continue

460
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 1: to even we championed, we signed it, and someone Walker

461
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,120
Speaker 1: has become what she is. So I just tell you, like,

462
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,639
Speaker 1: if you believe in something, don't don't give up, you know,

463
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,959
Speaker 1: push forward. Uh. Just seeing everyone come here together, it's

464
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 1: a beautiful experience. So back to our saying, find your

465
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,879
Speaker 1: champion in this building. Find someone that's gonna help you

466
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 1: take it to the next level. Uh, find someone that's

467
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:23,920
Speaker 1: gonna be your advocate. And that's always worked for me

468
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:26,479
Speaker 1: and and all the deals that I've done. I love that.

469
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:28,439
Speaker 1: I love that you mentioned find someone in this building

470
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 1: because I think that networking across like you mentioned earlier,

471
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 1: is super important. You don't always have to network up

472
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,240
Speaker 1: because eventually the people who are at the top are

473
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 1: going to retire and they're gonna go away, and the

474
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 1: next executive is sitting right next to you, you know

475
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:45,400
Speaker 1: what I mean. The person that can help you get

476
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 1: to wherever you need to get is literally sitting right

477
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:49,479
Speaker 1: next to you. So make sure refere y'all get up

478
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 1: today that you'll have met every single person that's sitting

479
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 1: right next to you in exchange info because that's the

480
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 1: person that could sign your artist or you. Um. That's

481
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:01,199
Speaker 1: really look I think so to that point, it's like

482
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:05,119
Speaker 1: you never know who's gonna be who um, and not

483
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,400
Speaker 1: just mean that by like just respecting, Like you gotta

484
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 1: treat everybody with respect. I treat everybody with the same respect. Um.

485
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:14,919
Speaker 1: You never know who's gonna have that top position. Like

486
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,680
Speaker 1: one minute you're hot woman and you're not, and then

487
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 1: the person that you was treating crazy, you know they

488
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 1: Like all the relationships that I've garnered in this business

489
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 1: from a corporate standpoint have been like people I was

490
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 1: just genuinely nice to, Yeah, I got this Amazon job.

491
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:35,640
Speaker 1: This woman that worked at Microsoft, she was like yo,

492
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,200
Speaker 1: they're trying to do hip hop at Amazon. You should

493
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,919
Speaker 1: have this conversation with him. She had worked in my

494
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 1: previous job, and everybody like the higher they all mean

495
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 1: to this lady like just superman. I'm always like, what

496
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 1: are you doing? And she threw me the live and

497
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 1: it's like, yo, you never know when your next opportunity

498
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 1: is gonna come from, like at all. That's been similar

499
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 1: to my journey. Um, I've never interviewed for a job.

500
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 1: It's all been network and it's all been I've always

501
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 1: said that it's not it's not who you know, it's

502
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 1: who knows you. So it's all about who you've introduced

503
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 1: yourself to and who you made sure knew who you were.

504
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 1: Because then I've never had to interview for a job.

505
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 1: I just kind of come in and be like, you know,

506
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:23,439
Speaker 1: it helps us that and they got me. I agree,

507
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 1: I say the same. I feel like at the end

508
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 1: of the day, the biggest thing is doing the work.

509
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 1: You do the work, someone's gonna find you. Um, and

510
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 1: it's it's worked for me like that. I didn't apply

511
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 1: five years ago. I didn't apply for my job either.

512
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 1: I just was doing the work and I kept my

513
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,439
Speaker 1: head down because before then I tried to apply for

514
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 1: every job and I couldn't get a job. So I said,

515
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm gonna go figure out. I'm gonna

516
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 1: go figure it out with like mind individuals. And we

517
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 1: grew and we grew and we grew, and then multipleple

518
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:54,440
Speaker 1: can't call it. So I always tell people, like, put

519
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 1: your head down and do the work. If you don't

520
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:58,680
Speaker 1: think your app is working at this time, or you're

521
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,239
Speaker 1: not inventing your tech job at this time, just do

522
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 1: the work. It will come. Like that's really um so

523
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 1: both people, both of you, guys, what are some common

524
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 1: mistakes that you've seen new artists making when signing their

525
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 1: first label deal or publishing deal or I guess, um man,

526
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,680
Speaker 1: the biggest mistake is when they signed a deal and

527
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: they get the check um a lot of times and

528
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 1: I tell people there's a lot of times. When I

529
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,360
Speaker 1: got into the business is to educate people because I've

530
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,159
Speaker 1: been there. I was a former manager and I've been

531
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 1: down that road with my clients where we signed a

532
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: deal and we didn't have the business acumum of like

533
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:41,719
Speaker 1: understanding like what do we do with taxes or how

534
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 1: do we spend x y Z. So I told a

535
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 1: lot of when I signed. When I signed, guys, I

536
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:48,920
Speaker 1: try to help set them up on opportunities that will

537
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:54,160
Speaker 1: create more revenue for them outside of my normal job requirements. UM.

538
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 1: Helping them meet with business managers to evaluate on how

539
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 1: they could build a sound business and build their money. UM.

540
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,439
Speaker 1: But a lot of times guys take things into their

541
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:06,639
Speaker 1: own hands where they say, hey, look I got a

542
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 1: million dollars, I got two million dollars. They think they

543
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 1: have a million dollars. You don't, especially you signed a

544
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: deal and stay to California this half. So sometimes people

545
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 1: don't think they need to put up money for taxes

546
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 1: or for emergencies because I got a million dollars. That

547
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: means I can go by the chain, I can go

548
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:25,440
Speaker 1: by the car, I can get the house. But situations

549
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 1: happen like the pandemic where we've seen a lot of artists.

550
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 1: We're running and figure out like what to do. Some

551
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 1: sold catalogs, some did other things. UM. But I always

552
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 1: tell people, like, be smart with your money. The biggest,

553
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 1: biggest thing is being smart with your money, because in reality,

554
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 1: sign a million dollars, you can kind of live a

555
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 1: new lifestyle, so you have four things at a different rate.

556
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 1: So a million dollars can go by very fast. So

557
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 1: anything about that. I always tell people be smart with

558
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 1: your money. Yeah, that's real, that's I mean, plus one

559
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 1: of that. I think, Um, that's the that's the biggest mistake.

560
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: It is funny. I was having this conversation of a

561
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:08,479
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago. Steve Lacey is a kid who

562
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 1: was from Confident as well. I've known him since. Um,

563
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 1: he was a young kid, and I remember he was

564
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: working with the internet. He was just a guitar player. Um,

565
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 1: with the internet. He's like, y'all want to buy a chain.

566
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 1: He's probably seventeen and eighteen, And I'm like, yo, you

567
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 1: should just go to the Daniel's Jury and open a

568
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 1: credit line and build your credit. Like, don't go to

569
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 1: the swap meet and pay the money, all right, Like,

570
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 1: just just build your credit. And he he looked at me,

571
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: he was like, yo, like all right, cool, um, and

572
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 1: he's been building this credit like since then. I think

573
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 1: like just being around like minded people to share those

574
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 1: just those kind of gems that we we in our

575
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 1: community don't usually get right, like from an early standpoint,

576
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 1: how our peers may may have those conversations, but I

577
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 1: think that's important. So I want to get into marketing

578
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 1: a little bit. UM. Back in my day, not to

579
00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: age myself, but you know, for an artist to kind

580
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 1: of get themselves out there, showcases, open mics, those were

581
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 1: big logs magazines. Um, that's the way that they got visibility.

582
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: Now obviously in two going into three, that is completely different.

583
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 1: So I want to talk a little bit about, um,

584
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 1: one of the new ways that artists can gain visibility

585
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 1: now and UM, what do you anticipate for the future.

586
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 1: I think we're in We're in a digital space now.

587
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,959
Speaker 1: I think, Uh, it's more front facing where I can

588
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: open up my app and I can see everything all

589
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 1: at once. Prior to that, you had to read the magazine,

590
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 1: you had to go online, you had to stand in

591
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 1: the line, you had to go to a place to

592
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: see somebody. But at the snap of your fingers, I

593
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 1: can go online and see something around the world in

594
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 1: a matter of no time. Um, I think there's going

595
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: to gift in a curse in that space. A lot

596
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 1: of artists don't want to be from facing, and sometimes

597
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 1: they take a hit, and some artists are front facing

598
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 1: and sometimes it shortens their value. UM. So I always

599
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 1: tell an artist or writer to deal with is to

600
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: be remained true and may have true values and core

601
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 1: because you can go on TikTok and explode using TikTok

602
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 1: as a platform. I love TikTok TikTok um um, but

603
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 1: I think TikTok for artists can be sometimes hard because

604
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 1: they feel like they have to put on the show

605
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 1: for a certain amount of viewership or X y Z

606
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 1: and and some it's relatable to um. For me, I

607
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 1: think people should embrace where technology is going, um, because

608
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 1: it's just where the world is going. Honestly. Um. The

609
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 1: old modern day marketing schemes, those are out, um, no

610
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: more handing steadies out the trunk of your car and

611
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:57,719
Speaker 1: what happen. But I think where we're going with technology

612
00:31:57,720 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: and stuff like that, a lot of artists are gonna

613
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 1: have to get on or to get left behind. So um,

614
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 1: I think that's my twoth just being creative. But also

615
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: like I think some of those old avenues still work,

616
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 1: like networking and you know, knowing who's who. Like when

617
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 1: I was a kid, I did all kind of research

618
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 1: on who was the decision makers in music, So Kevinlaos

619
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: I rand up. My first job was at the airport.

620
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 1: I rand up on Kevin Lows and his son at

621
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: a hoo are you on? He like, man, don't be

622
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: running up And I'm like, yo, Kevin, I'm Tim Henshaw.

623
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 1: I'm trying to do X, Y and Z And I've

624
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 1: been a rapport with Kevin Um up until this day.

625
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 1: And I think like really knowing who's who um and

626
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 1: figuring out ways to get in those wounds, like you

627
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 1: gotta get creative. But but also though, I will say,

628
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 1: you have to listen to yourself in the sense of

629
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 1: like your body's gonna tell you the music is not good.

630
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 1: I feel that way, Like I feel like if you

631
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 1: really are truly listening to you go after your dreams,

632
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: like follow your dreams, fight for your dreams. But your

633
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 1: body and tell you when it's time to shift, when

634
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 1: it's time to switch gears is like, Okay, this is

635
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 1: not working. How does your body tell you at it's

636
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 1: time to shift? Like I want to know what that means.

637
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 1: You gotta listen, like you you just gotta be in tune.

638
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 1: So um, I'm a spiritual person, so like you know,

639
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: I pray, I listened to you know my thoughts, and

640
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 1: I'm like, yo, I see I read the room, I

641
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 1: see the signs. It's like, this isn't this isn't working.

642
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 1: It's too much friction here. It's too much friction, bumping

643
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 1: my head too much. Let me figure out a different route.

644
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 1: That's how I got in an executive chair. I wanted

645
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 1: to be a rapper. I was. I was. I had success,

646
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 1: I was getting in rooms, I was getting in label meetings, um,

647
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 1: and then Jake Cole dropping. It was like, yeah, I'm

648
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 1: not ever gonna be like, let me figure out a

649
00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 1: different route, right, And I think like, UM, that's that's

650
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 1: important too, because you could be blocking your blessing is

651
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 1: just being stubborn on one particular path. And I love that.

652
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: While it's mentioned TikTok too, because I wanted to ask

653
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 1: you you coming from a streaming slash dsp uh standpoint

654
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: with artists using TikTok, how is that affecting what's happening

655
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: and streaming or what are you guys doing. There's a

656
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 1: woman named Rochelle Balagun on the programming team. She's responsible

657
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 1: for all hip hop and R and B like playlist things.

658
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,279
Speaker 1: So Rochelle is the person that you reach out to

659
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 1: if you want to get your record on those a

660
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 1: particular playlists, but she had to like the wherewith all

661
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 1: to create a UM playlist called Viral Hits, And it

662
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 1: was mainly UM just seeing what was happening on social media,

663
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 1: seeing what was happening on TikTok specifically, and it was like, okay, cool,

664
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:56,799
Speaker 1: let's create a playlist of all these records that are

665
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 1: bubbling in the space. I think the first record was

666
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:03,799
Speaker 1: the kid what's the kid with the mask? Um, Yeah, yeah,

667
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:07,839
Speaker 1: that one record whereas yeah, I'm blanking on his name,

668
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:14,879
Speaker 1: but he's wears a mask. I know you're talking about. Yeah,

669
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,880
Speaker 1: that that record was bubbling and she created that playlist,

670
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 1: so it like sort of in her own way, mirrors

671
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 1: what's what's what's popular right now from a social standpoint.

672
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 1: So you're noticing that people are using TikTok When I

673
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: said people, I see consumers using TikTok hearing these songs,

674
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 1: and then what they're doing is going back to the

675
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 1: that that transition is for sure true. And I don't

676
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 1: know what David is, but I was gonna get in

677
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 1: trouble for this. But like from from UM, you know,

678
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 1: listening to you see a song on TikTok, and you

679
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 1: immediately open the Amazon Music app um and play that song.

680
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 1: Like we're definitely seeing those those trends for sure. I

681
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 1: definitely think TikTok's and other platforms amplifies people to go

682
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 1: to DSP. Like when you look at Steve Lacey his

683
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 1: blew up from a TikTok where somebody was on the

684
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 1: bus listen to the song, made a song, and then

685
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 1: other people recreated and recreated it, and now people transition

686
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 1: from that app until onto the DSP. So I think

687
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,720
Speaker 1: it's an avenue where it works for a lot of people. Um.

688
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 1: I just think once you have that momentum, I think

689
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 1: you find yourself in your niche and how do you

690
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,279
Speaker 1: build this base because like sometimes you may explode from

691
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 1: a record from a TikTok and may not have a

692
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:29,279
Speaker 1: follow up and may not have an understanding how to

693
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 1: build this business. So I think it's coming in with

694
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:33,760
Speaker 1: the idea and figuring out ways to build your business

695
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 1: after you've had the someun six that's when it's a

696
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:37,479
Speaker 1: good time to have like a marketer on your team,

697
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 1: someone who can notice that, Okay, this is starting to

698
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 1: trend and like you said, now what do we do?

699
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,719
Speaker 1: Where do we go from here because especially when you

700
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 1: have like the older songs, because I noticed TikTok loves

701
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: my old school nineties music. TikTok has uh regnited so

702
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:55,360
Speaker 1: many songs when we look at Kate Bush and songs

703
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:57,880
Speaker 1: like thirty two years old and like became a hit again.

704
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 1: So it's like, um, and not to keep talking about TikTok,

705
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 1: but it's just helped push new music. Is the forefront

706
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 1: for other demographics that are younger that I've never heard

707
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 1: this song. They can go to these platforms and discover

708
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 1: and then go to a DSP like Amazon saying wow,

709
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 1: I can listen to this, I can add it to

710
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 1: my playlist and so on and so forth. Okay, Um,

711
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 1: do you know of any other apps or anything like

712
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:24,840
Speaker 1: that that are bubbling that maybe people should know about

713
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:26,959
Speaker 1: or we're still trying to figure that out. Amazon Music

714
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:30,319
Speaker 1: of course, well he said Amazon Music. That's all I

715
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: know right now. Of course got flood plug plug So, UM,

716
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:43,439
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask, I guess this is a question

717
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,360
Speaker 1: really for both of y'all. Um, with the few minutes

718
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 1: that we do have left, what are the differences between

719
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:53,360
Speaker 1: copyrights and masters and um, how does it affect ownership

720
00:37:53,480 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 1: rights on streaming platforms in terms of like royalties publish side,

721
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 1: let's talk about it. The copyrighting masters or two parts UM,

722
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 1: the copyright on the what's questioning um, the copyright of

723
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 1: masters and then how did it affect? Right? So the

724
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 1: copyright is normally traditionally owned by a writer, artists, producer. Uh,

725
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 1: it's works that they put together that they own, which

726
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 1: would be published probably by a publishing company. Right. And

727
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:27,919
Speaker 1: then you have the sound recording on the label side,

728
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:30,359
Speaker 1: which is traditionally put out through a label, which would

729
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 1: be owned by the label, which should be the master side. UM.

730
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:38,359
Speaker 1: I think traditionally on the writers on the publishing side,

731
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 1: what we've seen is, I don't know, a lot of

732
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 1: people see the Music Modernization Act, where a lot of

733
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:45,760
Speaker 1: people with the capital hill to fight for an increase

734
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 1: in revenue for our writers who work closely with the

735
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 1: DSPs to come together to increase the rate UM, and

736
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 1: we will see an influx of new cash flow for

737
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 1: writers on that end. On the master side. UM, what

738
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 1: I've really lies this UM, generally the master side is

739
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 1: paid at a different rate, which is paid at a

740
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 1: higher rate. UM. On my side, I'm in the publishing business,

741
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 1: and we call it the penny business. But the penny

742
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:14,840
Speaker 1: business adds up the penny business. But as long as

743
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 1: you when you have a copyright, it's always streaming, so

744
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 1: you're always making money. UM. So generally, what I've seen

745
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:25,319
Speaker 1: difference is they're paid at different rates. We have the

746
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 1: master rights, you own the recordings, it's paid at a

747
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,319
Speaker 1: higher rate. You own the copyrights, you can reastribute it,

748
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 1: you can sell it, you can do so many things

749
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 1: with your copyrights. Um. But the biggest difference is the

750
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,919
Speaker 1: rates that they're paid at in ownership is just UM.

751
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 1: So I guess with my last question that I have

752
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 1: for you guys, UM, since we are here at afro Tech,

753
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:51,359
Speaker 1: let's get real super techy with it. How do you

754
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 1: see UM and if teaser in web three in general

755
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:59,439
Speaker 1: playing a part in the future of music. I think

756
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:02,320
Speaker 1: for us, like in our space, n f t S

757
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 1: came really fast in the last year, uh, and it

758
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,360
Speaker 1: kind of left because we're in an old model system

759
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,400
Speaker 1: kind of like publishing is like you connect, I collect

760
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 1: your revenue, I give your money, and that's kind of it.

761
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 1: But we are moving fast forward where we've created a

762
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 1: creative service company where we explore these opportunities. UM. In

763
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:22,359
Speaker 1: the n f T space. What I've seen is like,

764
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 1: what was kind of tough for the publishing company is like,

765
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 1: how do I monetize the n f T. Because I

766
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:28,319
Speaker 1: can buy the n f T, I can give it

767
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 1: to you, you can sell it, you can sell it,

768
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:31,799
Speaker 1: and so many people can own it. So how does

769
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:35,760
Speaker 1: a publisher monetize that? Um. So that's where I've noticed

770
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 1: that they've been finding creative ways on how to monetize

771
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 1: the n f T. UM. For us, it was coming

772
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 1: super fast and then I feel like it kind of

773
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 1: burst a little bit and UM. To me personally, it's

774
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 1: not the sexiest thing that I like to be a

775
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 1: part of. But I do see us going into space

776
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:57,800
Speaker 1: where metaverse is important, where the n f T space

777
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,839
Speaker 1: is important, where Web three is important in our space, UM,

778
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 1: And I think our publishers are going to have to

779
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 1: move with the times and get hit onto building these

780
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 1: worlds because I think there is a lot of money

781
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 1: in this space. UM. But they're still figuring it out. Yeah.

782
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:17,840
Speaker 1: I'm still figuring it out too. Honestly. Now, I agree

783
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:19,800
Speaker 1: with you. I think that we are going to eventually

784
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 1: move into that space, but like you said, um, at

785
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:24,440
Speaker 1: least with the n f T s Anyway, it was

786
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 1: very rapid. It was very quick, and it popularized really

787
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,400
Speaker 1: quickly because like on social media, like all the celebrities

788
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 1: and influencers jumped right on it before I think most

789
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 1: people had an explanation of what it was. So I

790
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 1: guess to sum up what you basically said is we

791
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 1: are still learning and understanding where it's going. We haven't

792
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:47,320
Speaker 1: understanding where we're at right now, but where it's going

793
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:49,319
Speaker 1: is we're still trying to We're gonna pivot and move

794
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:51,399
Speaker 1: along with it. I think in our space we're still

795
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:53,320
Speaker 1: learning and growing. I think we're gonna grow with the times.

796
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:55,799
Speaker 1: I think Web three is here to stay. I think

797
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 1: the n f T space kind of had it for us,

798
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 1: like it had a crash. Like we're like gil people

799
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:02,360
Speaker 1: are coming in super hard, like hey, I want to

800
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:03,839
Speaker 1: use this song for this, but I want to use

801
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 1: this part of the song, and we're selling off this song.

802
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 1: So we're just figuring out creative ways to make it work.

803
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 1: But I do think, uh, what I've realized that our

804
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 1: companies they are moving forward with the times and they

805
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:17,320
Speaker 1: are getting hip to it. And how they can account

806
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 1: for it. So that is really all the learne of

807
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:23,799
Speaker 1: question and I have for y'all. Thank you all for

808
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 1: sitting in the hot seat with me before we go,

809
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:30,400
Speaker 1: before we wrap up, let people know how that they

810
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 1: can reach you. And if you have any of the

811
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:34,439
Speaker 1: last words, it's the perfect time to add it because

812
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:39,399
Speaker 1: I'm about to be a badass. Um. You can find

813
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 1: me on social media on Instagram at sir Wallace seven.

814
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 1: Um I respond your d n me. I always like

815
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 1: to meet like mind individuals and work with new people

816
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 1: and create new opportunities. Um. Like I said, I got

817
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 1: into the space to help other people that look like me.

818
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 1: Someone has an interest in music or wants to learn

819
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:02,319
Speaker 1: more about publishing. I'm here and I just want to

820
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 1: say one thing since it's out. My man got Billboard

821
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 1: Executive the year. I just had to put him on

822
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 1: blast because it's out so he can actually can talk

823
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 1: about it. But we're flying back home Thursday to celebrate. Congratulations.

824
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:25,360
Speaker 1: Thank you. Um no look uh Tim henshaw on on

825
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:29,279
Speaker 1: I g u on LinkedIn as well. UM what I

826
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 1: what I what I'll leave you guys with is just like, UM,

827
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:36,239
Speaker 1: don't give up on your dreams this. I think being

828
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 1: here for me is a full circle moment. My first

829
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 1: corporate trip UM I ever took was to south By Southwest,

830
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 1: Like I started my job on like March tenth, I

831
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 1: was in I was in Texas March twelve, UM. And

832
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 1: to be here on this stage years later, getting the

833
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:56,320
Speaker 1: award while it's just mentioned UM is a full circle moment.

834
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:59,479
Speaker 1: So it's like people are gonna tell you, know, people

835
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 1: are gonna tell you're not good enough. You're gonna tell

836
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:04,839
Speaker 1: yourself you're not good enough. But I think you need

837
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:08,760
Speaker 1: to fight through those thoughts, UM and keep going and

838
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 1: you'll get to where you want to be. And I

839
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 1: want to say one last thing. I want to say

840
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 1: thank you to Morgan and her incredible team here at

841
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 1: AFRO Tech to providing this platform for everyone here and

842
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 1: for us. I think they've been great um Man. I

843
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:29,399
Speaker 1: got up and left Florida nine years ago for an opportunity,

844
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 1: and I went through everything, slept in cars, slept at hostels,

845
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 1: and to have a safe space where you can come

846
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 1: and speak with people and connect with people. I've been

847
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 1: here this entire weekend since Sunday, and I can tell

848
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 1: you the love that I feel just running into different

849
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 1: people from different walks of life and learning people and

850
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,880
Speaker 1: meeting new people. I think it's been amazing opportunity and

851
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:52,880
Speaker 1: I'm excited to see the future of Afro Tech and

852
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 1: everyone here and I'm just grateful to be here with

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00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:59,359
Speaker 1: you guys, and I appreciate it. Love. One last thing

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00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 1: to that point, it's like this man my head is

855
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 1: just a genuine human being. And I think this new

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00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:11,840
Speaker 1: class of executives I feel really good about just a

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00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:15,799
Speaker 1: level of genuine love that we show each other, that

858
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:18,520
Speaker 1: we support, that we show up for each other, like

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00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:23,479
Speaker 1: it's beautiful to see because it wasn't that, I guess

860
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 1: I think for the music business, it wasn't that for

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00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 1: a long time. UM, And I just appreciate that, man,

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00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:54,760
Speaker 1: so so appreciate So I'm feeling the love right Black

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00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 1: Green Money is the production of Black and the Afro Tech,

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00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:00,080
Speaker 1: Black of Fact podcast Network and i HIED Media and

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00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:03,400
Speaker 1: it's produced by Morgan Dubonne and Me with Lucas, with

866
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 1: additional production support by Sarah Ergan and Rose McLucas. Special

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00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:10,759
Speaker 1: thank you to Michael David. Something That's a SURROUNDO learn

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00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 1: more about my gas and other tech as wethers and

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00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:16,720
Speaker 1: innovatives at afrotech dot com. Enjoying black tech, green money.

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00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:22,359
Speaker 1: Share this with somebody, Go get your money. Peace and love,