1 00:00:15,436 --> 00:00:23,076 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey everyone, we heard the news last week that 2 00:00:23,196 --> 00:00:26,596 Speaker 1: Burt Backrack died at the age of ninety four. He 3 00:00:26,916 --> 00:00:31,156 Speaker 1: was an absolute titan of twentieth century music. Co wrote 4 00:00:31,196 --> 00:00:33,916 Speaker 1: some of the greatest pop songs of all time with 5 00:00:33,956 --> 00:00:37,876 Speaker 1: his partner how David, songs for people like Dione Warwick 6 00:00:37,956 --> 00:00:42,076 Speaker 1: and Dusty Springfield, songs that got interpreted by greats like 7 00:00:42,276 --> 00:00:46,116 Speaker 1: Aretha Franklin and ROBERTA. Flack and Tom Jones. Just an 8 00:00:46,116 --> 00:00:48,476 Speaker 1: absolute monster and one of the best to ever do it, 9 00:00:48,836 --> 00:00:50,876 Speaker 1: and he was working right up until the very end. 10 00:00:51,356 --> 00:00:55,476 Speaker 1: He released an EP called Blue Umbrella with producer Daniel Tashian, 11 00:00:56,076 --> 00:00:58,236 Speaker 1: and we had them both on to speak to Bruce 12 00:00:58,276 --> 00:01:01,796 Speaker 1: Headlum back in twenty twenty. Over the weekend, I spoke 13 00:01:01,876 --> 00:01:05,116 Speaker 1: to Daniel about working with Bert and also asked him 14 00:01:05,156 --> 00:01:08,196 Speaker 1: to put Bert's career into the context of popular music 15 00:01:08,556 --> 00:01:11,956 Speaker 1: in the century. So let's listen to my quick conversation 16 00:01:12,116 --> 00:01:15,796 Speaker 1: with Daniel Tashian, and then we'll replay our twenty twenty 17 00:01:15,836 --> 00:01:22,076 Speaker 1: interview with Bert Backrack and Daniel Tashian speaking to Bruce Headlam. 18 00:01:23,236 --> 00:01:26,396 Speaker 1: This is broken record line of notes to the digital age. 19 00:01:26,676 --> 00:01:31,676 Speaker 1: I'm justin Mitchman. Nice to see you. Yeah, you as well. Yeah, man, 20 00:01:31,716 --> 00:01:34,396 Speaker 1: I'm so glad we have that conversation with you. And 21 00:01:34,436 --> 00:01:38,516 Speaker 1: Bert documented such a beautiful group of songs you guys 22 00:01:38,516 --> 00:01:42,316 Speaker 1: put together. And yeah, when did his work enter your consciousness? Yeah, 23 00:01:42,316 --> 00:01:44,436 Speaker 1: I think I was about the height wherever the height 24 00:01:44,476 --> 00:01:46,756 Speaker 1: it is when the age when your nose is like 25 00:01:46,836 --> 00:01:50,396 Speaker 1: this with the piano, you know, your nose is like 26 00:01:50,516 --> 00:01:52,756 Speaker 1: touching middle C. So I think I was like three 27 00:01:52,836 --> 00:01:55,316 Speaker 1: or four and I heard raindrops keep falling on my 28 00:01:55,316 --> 00:01:57,836 Speaker 1: head because I guess Bush Cassidy maybe had come out 29 00:01:57,876 --> 00:01:59,796 Speaker 1: a few years before that, and it was just kind 30 00:01:59,796 --> 00:02:02,436 Speaker 1: of on the radio and it just sounded like it 31 00:02:02,476 --> 00:02:04,036 Speaker 1: was talking to me, you know. It was just one 32 00:02:04,076 --> 00:02:07,836 Speaker 1: of those melodies and songs that just irresistible. That's a 33 00:02:07,876 --> 00:02:10,836 Speaker 1: great time to discover back rackets. You're just sort of 34 00:02:11,516 --> 00:02:13,476 Speaker 1: eye and the piano for the first time. Yeah, And 35 00:02:13,476 --> 00:02:15,356 Speaker 1: I just tried to peck it out on the keyboard 36 00:02:15,396 --> 00:02:19,436 Speaker 1: when my grandmother had a piano along with Mancini, Pink 37 00:02:19,436 --> 00:02:22,956 Speaker 1: panther Don, you know, in California as a kid, also 38 00:02:22,956 --> 00:02:25,716 Speaker 1: obsessed with Christopher Cross with the Arthur's theme, I thought 39 00:02:25,756 --> 00:02:28,676 Speaker 1: that it was like this, you know, window into the 40 00:02:28,756 --> 00:02:32,076 Speaker 1: world of adult emotions and adult feelings. It was like 41 00:02:32,076 --> 00:02:34,396 Speaker 1: when you get caught between the moon and New York City. 42 00:02:34,396 --> 00:02:36,436 Speaker 1: I was like, is that going to happen to me? 43 00:02:36,676 --> 00:02:38,556 Speaker 1: You know? It was like I was just kind of 44 00:02:38,556 --> 00:02:40,916 Speaker 1: fascinated with relationships when I was a kid. I was 45 00:02:40,916 --> 00:02:43,996 Speaker 1: just really thinking about the adult world a lot and 46 00:02:44,036 --> 00:02:46,476 Speaker 1: how it worked and would I be ready for it? 47 00:02:46,556 --> 00:02:49,276 Speaker 1: And Bert was kind of a window. Bert's music was 48 00:02:49,356 --> 00:02:51,156 Speaker 1: kind of a window into that world in a way 49 00:02:51,156 --> 00:02:55,236 Speaker 1: that didn't make it seem impossible. It's funny. I had 50 00:02:55,236 --> 00:02:57,796 Speaker 1: never thought about Bert's music that way, but he could 51 00:02:57,796 --> 00:03:00,836 Speaker 1: write something sort of as simple or something as appealing 52 00:03:00,876 --> 00:03:02,996 Speaker 1: to a kid as rain drops falling on my head, 53 00:03:03,036 --> 00:03:05,476 Speaker 1: and something as like a mature as like heart light, 54 00:03:05,716 --> 00:03:08,836 Speaker 1: and things that just seemed very complex when you're a 55 00:03:08,876 --> 00:03:12,636 Speaker 1: young kid or even a young adult, you know. And 56 00:03:12,676 --> 00:03:15,196 Speaker 1: then you know, when I got a bit older, I 57 00:03:15,316 --> 00:03:19,556 Speaker 1: got a Dion Warick CD that had a lot of 58 00:03:19,796 --> 00:03:22,796 Speaker 1: amazing song and I was like, holy, this stuff is, like, 59 00:03:22,876 --> 00:03:26,676 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just so deep and and and beautiful. 60 00:03:26,716 --> 00:03:29,596 Speaker 1: It's like when the B section of Walk on By, 61 00:03:29,916 --> 00:03:32,436 Speaker 1: when it transitions to that other section in the horns 62 00:03:32,476 --> 00:03:35,436 Speaker 1: start to rise and the strings start to rise. Du 63 00:03:37,916 --> 00:03:41,356 Speaker 1: it's just celestial and it just transports you. And it's 64 00:03:41,396 --> 00:03:43,556 Speaker 1: just like it really speaks to me. And I don't 65 00:03:43,556 --> 00:03:45,716 Speaker 1: know if you feel this way, but like of the 66 00:03:45,876 --> 00:03:50,636 Speaker 1: potential of humankind to transcend this sort of like kind 67 00:03:50,676 --> 00:03:53,156 Speaker 1: of mediocre existence that we have in a way that 68 00:03:53,476 --> 00:03:56,396 Speaker 1: is eternal, you know, and kind of transcend. And I 69 00:03:56,436 --> 00:03:58,316 Speaker 1: was just listening to Walk on By this morning, and 70 00:03:58,996 --> 00:04:00,956 Speaker 1: I mean, that has to just be one of the 71 00:04:00,996 --> 00:04:04,716 Speaker 1: greatest chord changes, you know. Yeah, it's because it's no 72 00:04:04,716 --> 00:04:06,996 Speaker 1: matter the version you listen to, to be honest, it's 73 00:04:07,356 --> 00:04:11,116 Speaker 1: almost always striking. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's kind of a 74 00:04:11,156 --> 00:04:13,636 Speaker 1: thrill ride to that music. That was one of the 75 00:04:13,636 --> 00:04:16,356 Speaker 1: things I loved about working with Bert was I felt 76 00:04:16,356 --> 00:04:20,756 Speaker 1: like he was making like this wonderful roller coaster slash 77 00:04:20,756 --> 00:04:23,156 Speaker 1: obstacle course for the voice, you know, and they were 78 00:04:23,316 --> 00:04:26,316 Speaker 1: it was just so fun to surf on those melodies, 79 00:04:26,356 --> 00:04:28,316 Speaker 1: you know. That was something that he talked about a lot, 80 00:04:28,436 --> 00:04:31,876 Speaker 1: was the through line of the melody through the whole 81 00:04:31,916 --> 00:04:33,756 Speaker 1: song and just kind of if you look at it, 82 00:04:33,796 --> 00:04:38,116 Speaker 1: is it interesting. Were you nervous collaborating with him at first? 83 00:04:38,356 --> 00:04:41,116 Speaker 1: I was definitely nervous, and you know, he kind of 84 00:04:41,196 --> 00:04:43,276 Speaker 1: wasn't into that, you know, And then I thought, well, 85 00:04:43,636 --> 00:04:46,036 Speaker 1: this is my chance to kind of work with a hero. 86 00:04:46,156 --> 00:04:48,396 Speaker 1: I'm just going to be myself and for better or 87 00:04:48,396 --> 00:04:50,316 Speaker 1: for worse. But you know, it helps when you just 88 00:04:50,396 --> 00:04:52,716 Speaker 1: really love what they do. And of course I wanted 89 00:04:52,716 --> 00:04:54,356 Speaker 1: to write a song with him, but I wasn't really 90 00:04:54,356 --> 00:04:57,556 Speaker 1: expecting that, and so I just thought, well, might as 91 00:04:57,556 --> 00:04:59,676 Speaker 1: well just go for it. And I remember telling his 92 00:04:59,836 --> 00:05:02,036 Speaker 1: manager Sue, I said, you know, I just wish these 93 00:05:02,116 --> 00:05:04,396 Speaker 1: lyrics were better that I was writing, and she said, 94 00:05:04,516 --> 00:05:07,276 Speaker 1: you know something very comforting, which was she said everybody 95 00:05:07,316 --> 00:05:09,796 Speaker 1: feels that way. And after she said that, I was like, oh, 96 00:05:09,836 --> 00:05:12,436 Speaker 1: so I'm not the only person that thinks, like, this 97 00:05:12,476 --> 00:05:14,436 Speaker 1: isn't the greatest lyric I've ever done, but it's the 98 00:05:14,436 --> 00:05:17,996 Speaker 1: one I got. And he was very encouraging. Later on, 99 00:05:18,036 --> 00:05:20,316 Speaker 1: when I got more comfortable and he had kind of 100 00:05:20,316 --> 00:05:22,796 Speaker 1: complimented me, then I thought, Okay, I'm gonna try to 101 00:05:22,836 --> 00:05:27,796 Speaker 1: do something really really special, you know. And actually we've 102 00:05:27,796 --> 00:05:30,756 Speaker 1: written two new songs that we were working on just 103 00:05:30,796 --> 00:05:34,036 Speaker 1: a couple weeks before he passed away, and he felt 104 00:05:34,036 --> 00:05:35,876 Speaker 1: that they were two of the best lyrics that I 105 00:05:35,916 --> 00:05:38,796 Speaker 1: had sent him, So I feel sort of honor bound 106 00:05:38,836 --> 00:05:43,316 Speaker 1: to see those through and I will, Wow, how far 107 00:05:43,356 --> 00:05:46,076 Speaker 1: along did you guys get on those? His work is done, 108 00:05:46,116 --> 00:05:48,036 Speaker 1: the music is done. It's just up to me to 109 00:05:48,436 --> 00:05:52,396 Speaker 1: complete the last verse. So it'll be done soon. Yeah, 110 00:05:52,476 --> 00:05:55,916 Speaker 1: they're they're thrilling. You know, this one called Starlight Motel 111 00:05:55,956 --> 00:05:58,836 Speaker 1: and like he comes in, it's like an E nine 112 00:05:58,916 --> 00:06:01,636 Speaker 1: chord that just doesn't have any thirds in it, and 113 00:06:01,796 --> 00:06:05,076 Speaker 1: it just it just sounds like space. Man, it just 114 00:06:05,116 --> 00:06:07,556 Speaker 1: sounds like you're just looking at a sky full of stars. 115 00:06:07,636 --> 00:06:10,316 Speaker 1: You know, It's just it's amazing. I love that he 116 00:06:10,396 --> 00:06:13,796 Speaker 1: was creating up until, you know, up until he couldn't anymore, 117 00:06:13,996 --> 00:06:17,116 Speaker 1: you know, literally couldn't something comforting. And that to me, 118 00:06:17,276 --> 00:06:20,516 Speaker 1: you know, that he knew his purpose and was just 119 00:06:20,596 --> 00:06:23,076 Speaker 1: able to sort of always be in that purpose. Isn't 120 00:06:23,156 --> 00:06:26,276 Speaker 1: his entire existence? Yeah, I think that was kind of 121 00:06:26,276 --> 00:06:28,196 Speaker 1: one of the things that you know, he really felt 122 00:06:28,196 --> 00:06:30,676 Speaker 1: that music was kind of a saving grace during the 123 00:06:30,676 --> 00:06:34,116 Speaker 1: pandemic when everyone was so cooped up and kind of isolated, 124 00:06:34,196 --> 00:06:37,836 Speaker 1: and I think that was like a real moodlifter for 125 00:06:37,916 --> 00:06:40,916 Speaker 1: both of us during that time, and I remember one 126 00:06:40,956 --> 00:06:43,996 Speaker 1: time I said, well, we got you know, we went 127 00:06:44,036 --> 00:06:46,676 Speaker 1: all the way to the to the Grammys, we got nominated. 128 00:06:46,796 --> 00:06:48,476 Speaker 1: We can we can probably put our feet up for 129 00:06:48,476 --> 00:06:51,436 Speaker 1: a second. He said, nope, not putting my feet up, 130 00:06:51,476 --> 00:06:53,116 Speaker 1: because the day you put your feet up is the 131 00:06:53,196 --> 00:06:55,956 Speaker 1: day that you die. Wow. He just really liked to 132 00:06:55,996 --> 00:06:59,236 Speaker 1: keep moving, you know, keep working, And um, I think 133 00:06:59,276 --> 00:07:01,476 Speaker 1: I took that to heart. You know, I think I'd 134 00:07:01,556 --> 00:07:03,796 Speaker 1: like to be that way. I mean, I'm I'm interested 135 00:07:03,836 --> 00:07:06,596 Speaker 1: in music and words, and I can't I can't see 136 00:07:06,836 --> 00:07:10,116 Speaker 1: a time when I wouldn't be interested, you know. Yeah, 137 00:07:10,276 --> 00:07:12,476 Speaker 1: do you think you fully understand everything you might have 138 00:07:12,556 --> 00:07:17,596 Speaker 1: learned from working with Nope, I don't think so. I think, 139 00:07:17,716 --> 00:07:19,956 Speaker 1: you know, stuff has to just kind of filter in. 140 00:07:20,036 --> 00:07:21,556 Speaker 1: And I have a lot of memories. I mean, we 141 00:07:21,596 --> 00:07:23,836 Speaker 1: worked together for five years. We talked on the phone, 142 00:07:23,956 --> 00:07:26,756 Speaker 1: you know, every week at least, and became really close. 143 00:07:26,796 --> 00:07:29,956 Speaker 1: And I don't know, I still can't sort of believe 144 00:07:29,996 --> 00:07:33,596 Speaker 1: that he's he's gone, and I miss him. I missed 145 00:07:33,636 --> 00:07:35,916 Speaker 1: just talking to him. And he didn't really love to 146 00:07:35,916 --> 00:07:38,236 Speaker 1: talk about stories, but he did, you know, of the 147 00:07:38,236 --> 00:07:40,916 Speaker 1: old days. But he did give me a few stories. 148 00:07:40,916 --> 00:07:43,436 Speaker 1: But mainly. I think the thing that I loved the 149 00:07:43,476 --> 00:07:45,436 Speaker 1: most was just sitting at the piano with him and 150 00:07:45,916 --> 00:07:49,996 Speaker 1: watching him process and think about things and kind of 151 00:07:51,116 --> 00:07:53,636 Speaker 1: kind of tap on it on the piano. You know. 152 00:07:53,676 --> 00:07:57,196 Speaker 1: He would just sort of dunk dunked different notes and 153 00:07:57,236 --> 00:08:00,196 Speaker 1: then scribble a little bit. And when you hang around 154 00:08:00,196 --> 00:08:03,356 Speaker 1: with somebody like that, it's like their their mannerisms and 155 00:08:03,436 --> 00:08:06,556 Speaker 1: their little things that they light up about that you 156 00:08:06,676 --> 00:08:08,676 Speaker 1: kind of notice and you sort of you don't really 157 00:08:08,716 --> 00:08:10,756 Speaker 1: know what what it means as much as you just 158 00:08:10,796 --> 00:08:14,796 Speaker 1: sort of how it feels. And I think I'll be 159 00:08:14,876 --> 00:08:18,156 Speaker 1: unpacking being with Bert for a long time. One thing 160 00:08:18,196 --> 00:08:20,276 Speaker 1: I can say, though, I can nail down a couple 161 00:08:20,276 --> 00:08:22,596 Speaker 1: of things that I feel like I really he would 162 00:08:22,596 --> 00:08:24,076 Speaker 1: want me to do. He would want me to have 163 00:08:24,116 --> 00:08:27,836 Speaker 1: an interesting melody. He would want me to do something 164 00:08:27,876 --> 00:08:30,636 Speaker 1: that sounds like something that's already out there. He would 165 00:08:30,636 --> 00:08:34,636 Speaker 1: want me to keep pushing and not settle for a 166 00:08:34,716 --> 00:08:36,916 Speaker 1: kind of a lame lyric or a lyric that doesn't 167 00:08:36,956 --> 00:08:39,716 Speaker 1: have any urgency behind it or any reason to kind 168 00:08:39,716 --> 00:08:42,436 Speaker 1: of be a song. We were working on this one song, 169 00:08:42,476 --> 00:08:44,276 Speaker 1: and the lyrics were sort of pretty and kind of 170 00:08:44,316 --> 00:08:46,676 Speaker 1: interesting and then halfway through working on it, he was like, 171 00:08:47,076 --> 00:08:49,076 Speaker 1: I just can't figure out why we need to do 172 00:08:49,116 --> 00:08:53,596 Speaker 1: this song, wow, you know, And I was like, yeah, 173 00:08:53,596 --> 00:08:55,716 Speaker 1: I don't really know why either, you know, And and 174 00:08:56,116 --> 00:08:58,276 Speaker 1: we just sort of, you know, once he tosses it, 175 00:08:58,276 --> 00:09:01,476 Speaker 1: it's gone. It's like in the fire. I wonder how 176 00:09:01,476 --> 00:09:04,036 Speaker 1: many great songs he scraps just because they weren't to 177 00:09:04,156 --> 00:09:08,796 Speaker 1: his standard. You know. It probably wasn't him that wasn't 178 00:09:08,796 --> 00:09:11,636 Speaker 1: a snuff either. It was probably the lyricist, you know 179 00:09:11,676 --> 00:09:14,756 Speaker 1: what I mean, Like, he probably always did his best, 180 00:09:14,796 --> 00:09:18,036 Speaker 1: and if the lyric was just kind of okay, he 181 00:09:18,156 --> 00:09:20,836 Speaker 1: just would sort of lose momentum, you know. And I 182 00:09:20,916 --> 00:09:25,876 Speaker 1: get that. You want something a sense of urgency about 183 00:09:25,916 --> 00:09:29,356 Speaker 1: a song, you know what the world needs now, you know, 184 00:09:29,396 --> 00:09:31,516 Speaker 1: it's got a lot of urgency to it. You know, 185 00:09:33,076 --> 00:09:36,036 Speaker 1: a reason for a song being something that comes out 186 00:09:36,076 --> 00:09:38,956 Speaker 1: and meets the ears of the listeners is like something 187 00:09:38,996 --> 00:09:41,636 Speaker 1: that that's a deep concept. You know. You can take 188 00:09:41,676 --> 00:09:44,396 Speaker 1: that a lot of different ways. That's great. Well, I'm 189 00:09:44,396 --> 00:09:47,796 Speaker 1: glad there's two more to come. It's a real gift 190 00:09:47,796 --> 00:09:49,876 Speaker 1: for the rest of us. He was an angel and 191 00:09:49,996 --> 00:09:53,596 Speaker 1: so kind to me and didn't ever sort of make 192 00:09:53,676 --> 00:09:56,356 Speaker 1: me feel bad about not being a great music reader 193 00:09:56,556 --> 00:09:59,076 Speaker 1: or a site reader or anything like that. Was patient 194 00:09:59,156 --> 00:10:01,796 Speaker 1: with me, and he knew that I, you know, had 195 00:10:02,076 --> 00:10:05,316 Speaker 1: a certain amount of musicality so that we could communicate. 196 00:10:05,396 --> 00:10:07,396 Speaker 1: And you know, I remember being at his house and 197 00:10:07,436 --> 00:10:09,236 Speaker 1: I wanted to play a little bit of pianos so 198 00:10:09,276 --> 00:10:11,876 Speaker 1: that he knew that I knew what he was he 199 00:10:11,956 --> 00:10:14,036 Speaker 1: was doing. And he would say, I didn't know that 200 00:10:14,076 --> 00:10:17,556 Speaker 1: you played piano. And then I asked him who his 201 00:10:17,716 --> 00:10:20,476 Speaker 1: heroes were, who he looked up to, you know, because 202 00:10:20,516 --> 00:10:22,756 Speaker 1: I wanted to know, like, who did he because he 203 00:10:22,836 --> 00:10:24,556 Speaker 1: was who I looked up to, you know, and I 204 00:10:24,636 --> 00:10:27,236 Speaker 1: wanted to know who he looked up to. And he 205 00:10:27,356 --> 00:10:32,676 Speaker 1: just he said, yeah, Carol King Revel, Yeah that's about 206 00:10:32,716 --> 00:10:36,396 Speaker 1: it sounds about right, Yeah, Revel. Did Burt listen to 207 00:10:36,476 --> 00:10:38,996 Speaker 1: music much? And yeah, he loved this guy. He said, 208 00:10:39,036 --> 00:10:41,476 Speaker 1: go one time he called me said, go look up 209 00:10:42,156 --> 00:10:46,796 Speaker 1: Von Lenz. You want to hear a fantastic song, Go 210 00:10:46,916 --> 00:10:51,116 Speaker 1: look up von Lenz. And uh. He this was a 211 00:10:51,156 --> 00:10:55,436 Speaker 1: Brazilian composer and singer that he really really admired. And 212 00:10:55,556 --> 00:10:57,316 Speaker 1: I went and listened to the guys music. It's sure enough. 213 00:10:57,356 --> 00:11:01,036 Speaker 1: It's fantastic Evon Lenz l I N d S. I think, 214 00:11:01,316 --> 00:11:03,756 Speaker 1: and that's something he kind of went back to just 215 00:11:03,876 --> 00:11:07,956 Speaker 1: over the years. Yeah, he's like a Brazilian pop star. Wow. 216 00:11:08,556 --> 00:11:12,356 Speaker 1: I think he's early you know, contemporary. Oh it's a contemporary, yeah, 217 00:11:12,396 --> 00:11:15,396 Speaker 1: I think so. So he was discovering he was just 218 00:11:15,396 --> 00:11:18,716 Speaker 1: still discovering new music too. Yeah, I think so. I 219 00:11:18,716 --> 00:11:20,796 Speaker 1: mean I think he you know, he did he did 220 00:11:20,836 --> 00:11:23,516 Speaker 1: that album with Doctor Dre a few years ago, about 221 00:11:23,516 --> 00:11:27,196 Speaker 1: ten years ago. And I think he always wanted to 222 00:11:27,196 --> 00:11:31,436 Speaker 1: do something new. He didn't have any set sort of 223 00:11:31,596 --> 00:11:33,836 Speaker 1: way to do things or a way that he has 224 00:11:33,956 --> 00:11:36,156 Speaker 1: to do things. I remember one time I said, do 225 00:11:36,196 --> 00:11:38,236 Speaker 1: you want to start with a melody that I've got? 226 00:11:38,276 --> 00:11:40,276 Speaker 1: Which can you believe that I would say something like that, 227 00:11:40,316 --> 00:11:43,196 Speaker 1: like what was wrong with me? But I said that 228 00:11:43,236 --> 00:11:45,956 Speaker 1: and he was like, yeah, sure, why not? And I 229 00:11:46,036 --> 00:11:48,556 Speaker 1: played him a little of this melody that I had, 230 00:11:48,596 --> 00:11:51,076 Speaker 1: and he said, well, let me mess with a little 231 00:11:51,076 --> 00:11:53,356 Speaker 1: bit because it already sounds like something i've heard before, 232 00:11:53,716 --> 00:11:57,036 Speaker 1: you know. And I was like, okay, yeah, you're right, 233 00:11:59,316 --> 00:12:02,916 Speaker 1: and he fixed it to hear Bert tinkering around with 234 00:12:03,116 --> 00:12:05,956 Speaker 1: a melody you wrote I'll tell you the first time 235 00:12:06,076 --> 00:12:09,716 Speaker 1: I heard him play some music underneath some lyrics I 236 00:12:09,756 --> 00:12:12,556 Speaker 1: had sent him, it just my eyes welled up with tears. 237 00:12:12,876 --> 00:12:15,076 Speaker 1: I was just so moved. It was just so beautiful, 238 00:12:15,116 --> 00:12:18,036 Speaker 1: and I felt like that that three year old kid 239 00:12:18,076 --> 00:12:20,236 Speaker 1: that had his nose up to the piano was like 240 00:12:20,556 --> 00:12:23,396 Speaker 1: having this full circle moment of like I was connecting 241 00:12:23,436 --> 00:12:26,556 Speaker 1: with the source of the thing that was so important 242 00:12:26,556 --> 00:12:29,996 Speaker 1: to me as a child and throughout my life. It's 243 00:12:29,996 --> 00:12:33,676 Speaker 1: like he's got music for every age. It's it's I 244 00:12:33,676 --> 00:12:37,516 Speaker 1: don't know, I just I was just overwhelmed with gratitude 245 00:12:37,556 --> 00:12:40,396 Speaker 1: and with emotion. And you know, when he passed away, 246 00:12:40,436 --> 00:12:43,516 Speaker 1: I was almost like it was almost just like a 247 00:12:43,636 --> 00:12:49,596 Speaker 1: transference of transmogrification of energy. And it wasn't like I 248 00:12:49,636 --> 00:12:52,476 Speaker 1: was just sitting there crying. I mean, I was just 249 00:12:52,556 --> 00:12:56,436 Speaker 1: kind of like it was just a a very spiritual 250 00:12:56,516 --> 00:13:01,516 Speaker 1: moment and a kind of a graduation. Man. Well, I'm 251 00:13:01,516 --> 00:13:04,556 Speaker 1: so happy you guys did that music together and that 252 00:13:04,716 --> 00:13:06,316 Speaker 1: you know, we were able to have you guys both 253 00:13:06,356 --> 00:13:09,396 Speaker 1: on at the start of the pandemic, and uh, it's 254 00:13:09,396 --> 00:13:11,676 Speaker 1: great that you guys have some some other music that 255 00:13:11,756 --> 00:13:13,996 Speaker 1: you know, we can still year coming out the greatest. 256 00:13:14,036 --> 00:13:18,116 Speaker 1: I can't believe it. Sometimes the greatest composer of my lifetime, 257 00:13:18,476 --> 00:13:21,636 Speaker 1: without a doubt, and I got to hang out with him. 258 00:13:21,676 --> 00:13:25,396 Speaker 1: I mean, what a dream come true. That was Daniel 259 00:13:25,396 --> 00:13:28,996 Speaker 1: Tashian reflecting on his friendship and the legacy of Burt 260 00:13:28,996 --> 00:13:32,436 Speaker 1: Backrack and music. Now let's go to our twenty twenty 261 00:13:32,436 --> 00:13:37,796 Speaker 1: conversation between Bruce Headlum, Burt Backrack, and Daniel Tashian. Bert, 262 00:13:37,796 --> 00:13:40,876 Speaker 1: you once said that you didn't know that a song 263 00:13:40,956 --> 00:13:43,836 Speaker 1: was going to work until you were in the recording studio, 264 00:13:43,916 --> 00:13:46,916 Speaker 1: until you had the musicians there. What's it like sending 265 00:13:46,916 --> 00:13:48,516 Speaker 1: something I'm going, well, I don't know what it's going 266 00:13:48,556 --> 00:13:52,196 Speaker 1: to sound like because I can't be there always for 267 00:13:52,276 --> 00:13:56,036 Speaker 1: me in the past when they knew people would be 268 00:13:56,076 --> 00:13:59,556 Speaker 1: there or in the in the same studio, I lived 269 00:13:59,596 --> 00:14:03,036 Speaker 1: by the credo of it was the moment of truth. 270 00:14:03,156 --> 00:14:06,236 Speaker 1: You lived or died with that song in the studio. 271 00:14:06,676 --> 00:14:10,196 Speaker 1: It felt good going in, but things can go wrong 272 00:14:10,996 --> 00:14:13,996 Speaker 1: in the concept. I had this habit. I don't know 273 00:14:13,996 --> 00:14:16,276 Speaker 1: whether I ever told you, Daniel, when I got in 274 00:14:16,316 --> 00:14:21,876 Speaker 1: trouble on a date, string players out there and something 275 00:14:22,036 --> 00:14:25,356 Speaker 1: was amiss in the concept. The way the arrangement was 276 00:14:25,396 --> 00:14:28,716 Speaker 1: going down, I'd give a break to the band ten minutes. 277 00:14:29,396 --> 00:14:34,196 Speaker 1: I'd go into the bathroom, to the men's room, into 278 00:14:34,236 --> 00:14:37,556 Speaker 1: a stall, just close the lid, sit on the stall 279 00:14:38,436 --> 00:14:43,156 Speaker 1: and try to hear this whole scope of where this 280 00:14:43,436 --> 00:14:47,156 Speaker 1: record was going, where this song was going, and to 281 00:14:47,236 --> 00:14:50,956 Speaker 1: make sure there were no pimples. If the pimples were there, 282 00:14:51,076 --> 00:14:54,036 Speaker 1: the pimples drove me into the bathroom. And then you 283 00:14:54,116 --> 00:14:57,716 Speaker 1: try to try to work it through and you don't 284 00:14:57,716 --> 00:15:00,276 Speaker 1: have anybody leaning on you. You're not at the piano 285 00:15:00,356 --> 00:15:04,156 Speaker 1: trying to figure it out in a room full of musicians. 286 00:15:04,796 --> 00:15:07,796 Speaker 1: So for me, it's a moment truth. That's where you 287 00:15:07,836 --> 00:15:11,276 Speaker 1: know you got something. So I want to go back 288 00:15:11,316 --> 00:15:16,596 Speaker 1: to how this collaboration started. It started with a meeting 289 00:15:16,756 --> 00:15:19,036 Speaker 1: at your house, Burton. I'd like to hear both of 290 00:15:19,076 --> 00:15:22,996 Speaker 1: you just tell me a bit about how that came about. Okay, 291 00:15:23,076 --> 00:15:27,636 Speaker 1: Daniels on a glow, Daniel's on a winning streak. Daniel 292 00:15:27,716 --> 00:15:30,236 Speaker 1: was a very very happy guy and he had just 293 00:15:30,356 --> 00:15:34,916 Speaker 1: won the Grammy for produce Or of the Year and 294 00:15:35,516 --> 00:15:40,396 Speaker 1: Casey's record, which is a brilliant record, and you pick 295 00:15:40,436 --> 00:15:43,556 Speaker 1: it up from there. Daniel well there's a lot of 296 00:15:43,596 --> 00:15:46,596 Speaker 1: mystery for me around Bert before I met him. And 297 00:15:46,756 --> 00:15:48,396 Speaker 1: you know, they say you shouldn't meet some of your 298 00:15:48,396 --> 00:15:52,076 Speaker 1: heroes because sometimes you know, you can maybe not have 299 00:15:52,116 --> 00:15:54,236 Speaker 1: the kind of interaction that you hope for. But in 300 00:15:54,556 --> 00:15:57,236 Speaker 1: the case of me and Bert, and I do consider 301 00:15:57,236 --> 00:16:00,076 Speaker 1: you to be one of my great heroes. Bert, thank you. 302 00:16:00,596 --> 00:16:03,716 Speaker 1: In that situation. I found you to be very warm 303 00:16:03,796 --> 00:16:07,116 Speaker 1: and welcoming. You welcome me into your music room, sort 304 00:16:07,156 --> 00:16:09,076 Speaker 1: of a sunken kind of living room you kind of 305 00:16:09,196 --> 00:16:11,796 Speaker 1: come down into and there's there's a piano and up 306 00:16:11,836 --> 00:16:14,036 Speaker 1: on the wall, you know, are the are these Oscars 307 00:16:14,076 --> 00:16:17,796 Speaker 1: and Grammys and and Gershwin Award and uh, it's very 308 00:16:18,396 --> 00:16:21,076 Speaker 1: very heavy stuff for a guy like me. And um, 309 00:16:21,516 --> 00:16:23,756 Speaker 1: but you had worked on some music for a little 310 00:16:23,836 --> 00:16:26,516 Speaker 1: lyric Shred that I had sent you, and UM, I 311 00:16:26,516 --> 00:16:28,476 Speaker 1: couldn't help it. Man, the tears came to my eyes. 312 00:16:28,476 --> 00:16:30,916 Speaker 1: It was so beautiful. I loved. I loved the way 313 00:16:30,956 --> 00:16:33,996 Speaker 1: that you, Um made the words that I had written 314 00:16:34,196 --> 00:16:36,636 Speaker 1: kind of come to life in this in this way 315 00:16:36,636 --> 00:16:38,996 Speaker 1: that I never I never could have thought of on 316 00:16:39,036 --> 00:16:41,516 Speaker 1: my own. And and it was just wonderful to be 317 00:16:41,636 --> 00:16:44,916 Speaker 1: there in that room with you, and I was ensconced 318 00:16:44,956 --> 00:16:47,836 Speaker 1: in a very comfortable armchair with a nice cup of 319 00:16:47,876 --> 00:16:50,516 Speaker 1: tea and you were playing to me right right next 320 00:16:50,556 --> 00:16:54,116 Speaker 1: to me, um on the beginning of Blue Umbrella. And 321 00:16:54,116 --> 00:16:57,916 Speaker 1: it's a memory that I'll cherish all my life. And 322 00:16:58,276 --> 00:17:01,636 Speaker 1: I could say this the thing about Daniel, I don't 323 00:17:01,676 --> 00:17:05,796 Speaker 1: think you know, I've had different collaborations with Elsa for 324 00:17:06,236 --> 00:17:11,436 Speaker 1: with how they even ex Carol bayer Seger. There is 325 00:17:11,516 --> 00:17:16,596 Speaker 1: something about this relationship as it's grown and expanded. We 326 00:17:16,996 --> 00:17:22,556 Speaker 1: genuinely really like each other. And the more time that 327 00:17:22,636 --> 00:17:28,276 Speaker 1: we work, connect talk, there's no fear, you know, there's 328 00:17:28,276 --> 00:17:30,996 Speaker 1: no you know, you always have a will. Will this 329 00:17:31,836 --> 00:17:38,156 Speaker 1: future collaborator be something that will like my music? Will 330 00:17:38,156 --> 00:17:42,716 Speaker 1: it work? See Daniel's in this, He's got all bases 331 00:17:42,756 --> 00:17:48,196 Speaker 1: covered because he's I love the way he sings, which 332 00:17:48,236 --> 00:17:52,316 Speaker 1: I didn't know until I heard it. I love his musicianship, 333 00:17:53,036 --> 00:17:57,436 Speaker 1: I love his words. And the thing that I find 334 00:17:57,636 --> 00:18:00,636 Speaker 1: very interesting because I think the work has been really 335 00:18:00,636 --> 00:18:04,156 Speaker 1: productive and really good and proud of what we've done. Daniel, 336 00:18:06,836 --> 00:18:11,396 Speaker 1: and the friendship has grown. So we'll talk at different times. Well, 337 00:18:12,036 --> 00:18:16,076 Speaker 1: we'll keep on writing, you know, Um, We've got a 338 00:18:16,076 --> 00:18:24,196 Speaker 1: couple of more songs in the pipeline now and yeah, 339 00:18:24,236 --> 00:18:28,276 Speaker 1: and the same musicians, but they'll instead of all being 340 00:18:28,276 --> 00:18:31,956 Speaker 1: in the studio, everybody will be in their own house 341 00:18:32,076 --> 00:18:38,556 Speaker 1: like in Nashville. Yeah, and being able to hear each 342 00:18:38,596 --> 00:18:44,196 Speaker 1: other as parts are added. It's a it's not the 343 00:18:44,276 --> 00:18:48,876 Speaker 1: perfect solution, but the sound is good. That was one 344 00:18:48,916 --> 00:18:52,836 Speaker 1: of my concerns, how it would sound stuff coming instead 345 00:18:52,836 --> 00:18:57,396 Speaker 1: of off the board in a studio with all the gear. 346 00:18:59,236 --> 00:19:04,196 Speaker 1: But it sounds really good. So that took any fears, 347 00:19:04,396 --> 00:19:09,156 Speaker 1: concerns of new stuff that we would write. But I 348 00:19:10,036 --> 00:19:12,676 Speaker 1: love it that we've we've done this thing with Blue 349 00:19:12,756 --> 00:19:18,636 Speaker 1: Umbrella and and me too. I'm proud of the songs 350 00:19:18,676 --> 00:19:25,556 Speaker 1: and whatever happens with it, if pride will always be there. Yeah, 351 00:19:25,756 --> 00:19:27,276 Speaker 1: I want to go back to what you said about 352 00:19:27,356 --> 00:19:30,836 Speaker 1: Daniel as a singer. I mean he's mainly known as 353 00:19:30,836 --> 00:19:34,756 Speaker 1: a producer. You know, not everybody can sing a birt 354 00:19:34,876 --> 00:19:40,596 Speaker 1: backrack melody. You've got a very particular flavor of melody. 355 00:19:41,516 --> 00:19:45,596 Speaker 1: You play a lot with the rhythm or the beat 356 00:19:45,676 --> 00:19:49,796 Speaker 1: I guess, the time signature. And obviously you've had some 357 00:19:50,236 --> 00:19:54,236 Speaker 1: incredible collaborators, who do you know, starting with Deon Warwick 358 00:19:54,236 --> 00:19:58,476 Speaker 1: and many others. What does a good Burt backrack singer 359 00:19:58,596 --> 00:20:02,836 Speaker 1: have to have to sing your songs? Well, you don't 360 00:20:02,876 --> 00:20:05,956 Speaker 1: know what you're going to get with Daniel, like because 361 00:20:06,356 --> 00:20:09,516 Speaker 1: we'd worked in a room until we got in this studio, 362 00:20:10,356 --> 00:20:12,196 Speaker 1: but I never had any doubt that he's going to 363 00:20:12,276 --> 00:20:14,796 Speaker 1: sing well. But when I heard him in the studio, 364 00:20:15,356 --> 00:20:18,516 Speaker 1: he does his homework. He comes in prepared. I'm a 365 00:20:18,516 --> 00:20:21,956 Speaker 1: big one in preparation. And then you know it's like 366 00:20:22,396 --> 00:20:27,076 Speaker 1: what works. It's all interchangeable. Half of it could work, 367 00:20:27,396 --> 00:20:30,396 Speaker 1: half of it couldn't work, but we'll get through it. 368 00:20:30,716 --> 00:20:34,276 Speaker 1: But our taste, we kind of understand each other and 369 00:20:34,876 --> 00:20:40,396 Speaker 1: in a very a very kind of sensible loving way. 370 00:20:40,636 --> 00:20:44,516 Speaker 1: He's my friend. I love you too, Bert, I really do, man. 371 00:20:44,636 --> 00:20:47,516 Speaker 1: And I think one thing a singer needs to do 372 00:20:47,916 --> 00:20:52,636 Speaker 1: um is to stick to the melody because it's probably 373 00:20:52,676 --> 00:20:54,436 Speaker 1: a good one, you know. And I think a lot 374 00:20:54,436 --> 00:20:57,596 Speaker 1: of singers tend to kind of go into maybe areas 375 00:20:57,636 --> 00:21:01,556 Speaker 1: where they feel like maybe more comfortable, like doing licks 376 00:21:01,636 --> 00:21:03,516 Speaker 1: or something that they know they can pull off, and 377 00:21:03,596 --> 00:21:07,116 Speaker 1: that that that our crowdpleasers, and that doesn't really cut 378 00:21:07,116 --> 00:21:09,316 Speaker 1: it with with with your music. You know, I think 379 00:21:09,356 --> 00:21:12,116 Speaker 1: you've got to, um be the kind of singer that 380 00:21:12,156 --> 00:21:15,236 Speaker 1: can that can stick to the to the inc There 381 00:21:15,316 --> 00:21:17,556 Speaker 1: was an outro and we were working in the studio 382 00:21:17,596 --> 00:21:20,436 Speaker 1: and this was another one of those unforgettable moments. But 383 00:21:20,516 --> 00:21:22,956 Speaker 1: I just had this. I was tempted to kind of 384 00:21:23,236 --> 00:21:25,836 Speaker 1: beer off into some more sort of um, you know, 385 00:21:26,036 --> 00:21:29,796 Speaker 1: dreadful kind of ad libbing. He sort of said, you know, gently, 386 00:21:29,956 --> 00:21:32,796 Speaker 1: you know, maybe let's not let's not let's not deviate here. 387 00:21:33,276 --> 00:21:36,076 Speaker 1: You know, people think that, you know, someone who has 388 00:21:36,116 --> 00:21:39,276 Speaker 1: some harmonic complexity to their music, like Bert, that you 389 00:21:39,276 --> 00:21:42,556 Speaker 1: would think that he's interested in complexity, but he's actually 390 00:21:42,916 --> 00:21:46,636 Speaker 1: quite interested in the opposite. He really loves simplicity. Um. 391 00:21:46,636 --> 00:21:56,276 Speaker 1: He really loves UM a simple um, catchy song. You know. Economics. Yeah, uh, 392 00:21:56,316 --> 00:22:01,156 Speaker 1: what's not there is building in a space. Sometimes that's 393 00:22:01,316 --> 00:22:05,116 Speaker 1: very advantageous. M hmmm. And the more I've gotten to 394 00:22:05,156 --> 00:22:08,116 Speaker 1: know you, I mean, I honestly, you know, I really 395 00:22:08,116 --> 00:22:10,836 Speaker 1: do like that about our collaboration that I um, the 396 00:22:10,956 --> 00:22:14,916 Speaker 1: learning aspect of it for me, and um, the confirmation 397 00:22:15,036 --> 00:22:19,836 Speaker 1: of things that I've instinctively felt, you know, UM, I 398 00:22:19,876 --> 00:22:22,756 Speaker 1: like that. Can you can you give me an example 399 00:22:22,916 --> 00:22:28,796 Speaker 1: when you said, confirmation of things that felt. Well, that 400 00:22:28,916 --> 00:22:31,756 Speaker 1: that really that the things that you love, that you 401 00:22:31,756 --> 00:22:33,356 Speaker 1: and I love and we listen to all the time. 402 00:22:33,596 --> 00:22:37,396 Speaker 1: You know, if it's name anything amazing, whether it's beatles 403 00:22:37,476 --> 00:22:41,476 Speaker 1: or whatever, you know, it's all really, at the end 404 00:22:41,516 --> 00:22:44,156 Speaker 1: of the day, something that's made sort of of the spirit. 405 00:22:44,236 --> 00:22:47,756 Speaker 1: It's made of the emotion. It's it's it's not it's 406 00:22:47,796 --> 00:22:50,436 Speaker 1: not a it's not the result of um a lot 407 00:22:50,476 --> 00:22:53,596 Speaker 1: of sort of strategic kind of Um, well, if I 408 00:22:53,756 --> 00:22:56,436 Speaker 1: sing it, you know this way here, um, that'll have 409 00:22:56,476 --> 00:22:58,716 Speaker 1: the right effect. No, that's not the way you approach it. 410 00:22:58,596 --> 00:23:01,556 Speaker 1: It's a feeling that you're feeling and you're you're inside 411 00:23:01,556 --> 00:23:03,596 Speaker 1: of that music. And I think you know, Bert's music 412 00:23:03,756 --> 00:23:05,596 Speaker 1: for me is very easy for me as a singer 413 00:23:05,636 --> 00:23:08,556 Speaker 1: to inhabit and to exhibit with a lot of um, 414 00:23:08,796 --> 00:23:11,396 Speaker 1: natural feeling because I do feel those melodies and I 415 00:23:11,436 --> 00:23:14,876 Speaker 1: do feel those sentiments. So there's not a lot of 416 00:23:14,956 --> 00:23:18,596 Speaker 1: strategy behind it. I think that's you know, there may 417 00:23:18,636 --> 00:23:22,396 Speaker 1: be strategy in arrangement and stuff like that, but when 418 00:23:22,436 --> 00:23:27,356 Speaker 1: it comes to displaying or creating those moods, it's it's feeling. 419 00:23:27,396 --> 00:23:30,636 Speaker 1: It's all about feeling. And mood, and it's growing together 420 00:23:30,916 --> 00:23:35,196 Speaker 1: as the song moves on. As the song moves on, 421 00:23:35,356 --> 00:23:41,236 Speaker 1: and it takes shape and takes different turns, and it 422 00:23:41,396 --> 00:23:45,396 Speaker 1: evolves from the five songs on the EP Are There, 423 00:23:46,076 --> 00:23:48,396 Speaker 1: Daniel Is There? Can you take of a particular song 424 00:23:48,556 --> 00:23:53,316 Speaker 1: or passage that may sound like a distinctive Burt backrack 425 00:23:53,396 --> 00:23:56,676 Speaker 1: melody that you just love singing, or that you found 426 00:23:56,716 --> 00:24:00,036 Speaker 1: easy to sing, or that you found really hard to sing. Well, 427 00:24:00,036 --> 00:24:02,756 Speaker 1: they're all tough to sing because what you realize once 428 00:24:02,796 --> 00:24:04,996 Speaker 1: you get behind the wheel on these things is that 429 00:24:05,036 --> 00:24:08,916 Speaker 1: there's um specific jumps, which I would imagine it's similar 430 00:24:08,956 --> 00:24:12,076 Speaker 1: to when an orchestral musician has to play a passage 431 00:24:12,076 --> 00:24:15,396 Speaker 1: that they've got to make a jump that's at a 432 00:24:15,436 --> 00:24:18,836 Speaker 1: significant distance. On the chorus of Bells of Saint Augustine, 433 00:24:18,876 --> 00:24:22,236 Speaker 1: for example, Um, there's a there's a jump there. It's 434 00:24:22,276 --> 00:24:24,796 Speaker 1: not kind of and it's not swooping. It's a specific 435 00:24:25,396 --> 00:24:27,996 Speaker 1: set of notes that that it's very fun to sing. 436 00:24:28,036 --> 00:24:30,236 Speaker 1: But also if you're not in shape, you know, the 437 00:24:30,316 --> 00:24:33,196 Speaker 1: muscles of the throat they've got to um. You've got 438 00:24:33,196 --> 00:24:36,276 Speaker 1: to sort of stick the landing, you know, otherwise you 439 00:24:36,396 --> 00:24:38,836 Speaker 1: kind of come off of a jump and you'll be flat. 440 00:24:39,996 --> 00:24:43,116 Speaker 1: Really you is it? Do you remember the particular interval 441 00:24:43,156 --> 00:24:45,956 Speaker 1: that it was so yeah on the chorus of bells 442 00:24:45,996 --> 00:24:51,316 Speaker 1: of saying Saint Augustine, there's a there's a figure, uh uh, 443 00:24:53,636 --> 00:24:56,276 Speaker 1: And I love singing that so much. Um it's a 444 00:24:56,276 --> 00:24:59,036 Speaker 1: specific series of notes that it's very easy to skid 445 00:24:59,116 --> 00:25:03,436 Speaker 1: off rails on that, especially on that bottom note. And um, 446 00:25:03,596 --> 00:25:05,596 Speaker 1: so those are the challenges for me as a singer. 447 00:25:05,636 --> 00:25:08,676 Speaker 1: You've got to like tighten tighten your control up a 448 00:25:08,676 --> 00:25:10,916 Speaker 1: little bit so you can nail those notes, you know. 449 00:25:10,956 --> 00:25:13,356 Speaker 1: And there's no auto tune on this project. And I 450 00:25:13,636 --> 00:25:16,916 Speaker 1: told Ryan, our our wonderful engineer and mixer, that, um, 451 00:25:17,156 --> 00:25:22,316 Speaker 1: I really wanted to avoid any any tuning, any artificial help, 452 00:25:22,356 --> 00:25:24,476 Speaker 1: and just really as a singer, I wanted to grow. 453 00:25:24,596 --> 00:25:26,996 Speaker 1: I wanted to learn, you know, and get better. And 454 00:25:27,596 --> 00:25:29,476 Speaker 1: a great way to get better as a singer is 455 00:25:29,516 --> 00:25:32,996 Speaker 1: to sing some of Burt stuff, because there's no you 456 00:25:32,996 --> 00:25:36,116 Speaker 1: can't really fake it, you know. Yeah. We'll be right 457 00:25:36,156 --> 00:25:38,956 Speaker 1: back with more from Bruce Hedlams twenty twenty conversation with 458 00:25:38,996 --> 00:25:46,036 Speaker 1: Bert and Daniel. After the Drink, We're back with Bruce 459 00:25:46,076 --> 00:25:50,716 Speaker 1: Headlam's conversation with Bert back Iraq and Daniel Tashian. So 460 00:25:50,836 --> 00:25:53,836 Speaker 1: tell me about the first song you worked on from 461 00:25:53,876 --> 00:25:58,516 Speaker 1: this great EP and and how it started. Yeah, I 462 00:25:58,516 --> 00:26:01,316 Speaker 1: texted and Burt. I texted him basically some lyrics that 463 00:26:01,396 --> 00:26:05,356 Speaker 1: I um was kind of tossing around and m I've 464 00:26:05,396 --> 00:26:08,076 Speaker 1: never worked that way before, with just sending a lyric 465 00:26:08,156 --> 00:26:12,356 Speaker 1: to someone. That's a first for me. I'm usually involved 466 00:26:12,396 --> 00:26:15,316 Speaker 1: in people sitting together in a room with holding guitars 467 00:26:15,316 --> 00:26:17,756 Speaker 1: and playing and stinging together and trying to come up 468 00:26:17,756 --> 00:26:20,476 Speaker 1: with something silentaneously. But it was another aspect of this 469 00:26:20,596 --> 00:26:24,156 Speaker 1: process that was great, different for me in a good way. 470 00:26:24,516 --> 00:26:28,156 Speaker 1: And we've come a long way, Daniel, we have and Bert, 471 00:26:28,196 --> 00:26:30,916 Speaker 1: when you first got those lyrics, do you still do 472 00:26:30,956 --> 00:26:32,676 Speaker 1: you still play every day or you try and get 473 00:26:32,716 --> 00:26:36,996 Speaker 1: at the piano every day? Not every day? Hey, this 474 00:26:37,076 --> 00:26:42,556 Speaker 1: has kept a life going for me, this whole process 475 00:26:42,596 --> 00:26:49,716 Speaker 1: with Daniel, with the EP, with promoting it, with believing 476 00:26:49,796 --> 00:26:55,756 Speaker 1: in it. I'm writing new stuff and a continuing process. 477 00:26:55,876 --> 00:26:59,036 Speaker 1: We'll get two three more songs done and we'll do 478 00:26:59,116 --> 00:27:04,876 Speaker 1: it remotely because that works. Yeah, We'll give the best 479 00:27:04,876 --> 00:27:07,156 Speaker 1: of what we can do. I think you did some 480 00:27:07,236 --> 00:27:10,516 Speaker 1: great direction on lou Umbrella. I'll tell you something funny 481 00:27:10,516 --> 00:27:12,916 Speaker 1: about recording that song. When we were recording that, we 482 00:27:13,196 --> 00:27:15,596 Speaker 1: had figured it out and we were playing it, and 483 00:27:15,636 --> 00:27:17,876 Speaker 1: then when we would go to the to um no 484 00:27:18,036 --> 00:27:22,716 Speaker 1: wonder where we go that part, and the drummer was 485 00:27:22,796 --> 00:27:25,316 Speaker 1: like going to the ride symbol, and every the band 486 00:27:25,356 --> 00:27:29,156 Speaker 1: was sort of flourishing on that section. And Bert got 487 00:27:29,196 --> 00:27:32,356 Speaker 1: on the talk back in the studio and he said, 488 00:27:32,356 --> 00:27:35,676 Speaker 1: it sounds like everybody's like going to the chorus, and 489 00:27:35,716 --> 00:27:37,676 Speaker 1: we all kind of looked at him, like what is 490 00:27:37,716 --> 00:27:40,956 Speaker 1: he talking about? And then I started to understand about 491 00:27:41,356 --> 00:27:46,716 Speaker 1: the way that you're interested in developing. I think things 492 00:27:47,036 --> 00:27:51,156 Speaker 1: simmering a bit more, you know, and not kind of telegraphing. 493 00:27:51,316 --> 00:27:53,156 Speaker 1: You're sort of okay, now we're in the section that 494 00:27:53,196 --> 00:27:56,116 Speaker 1: everybody's supposed to like kind of feel like, okay, now 495 00:27:56,156 --> 00:27:57,796 Speaker 1: this is the point of the whole thing. But maybe 496 00:27:57,996 --> 00:28:01,076 Speaker 1: instead of telegraphing what everybody should feel, it was more 497 00:28:01,116 --> 00:28:03,356 Speaker 1: like let them let the notes and the chords do 498 00:28:03,396 --> 00:28:06,436 Speaker 1: the heavy lifting, and just everybody just holds heavy. Man. 499 00:28:06,516 --> 00:28:10,076 Speaker 1: That was such a lesson. That was so cool. I 500 00:28:10,196 --> 00:28:14,956 Speaker 1: do like a kind of seamlessness if can be done 501 00:28:15,396 --> 00:28:19,556 Speaker 1: that yeah, one goes into the other without an announcement, 502 00:28:19,876 --> 00:28:24,676 Speaker 1: trumpets blaring. You know, now, Bert, had you worked from 503 00:28:24,756 --> 00:28:28,876 Speaker 1: lyrics before? I know you used to often compose and 504 00:28:28,916 --> 00:28:31,996 Speaker 1: then make up dummy lyrics and then how day that 505 00:28:32,076 --> 00:28:35,196 Speaker 1: if someone else would provide lyrics? Did you ever have 506 00:28:35,316 --> 00:28:36,996 Speaker 1: just a lyrics sheet? And you say, okay, now I 507 00:28:37,076 --> 00:28:41,436 Speaker 1: got to create something from these lyrics. Yes, certainly did 508 00:28:41,476 --> 00:28:45,796 Speaker 1: with Alphie because it had to depict what the movie 509 00:28:45,916 --> 00:28:48,956 Speaker 1: was about. So Alphie came. The words came in first, 510 00:28:49,316 --> 00:28:53,716 Speaker 1: absolutely and one of the hardest sons because I wanted 511 00:28:53,796 --> 00:28:57,796 Speaker 1: to make it perfect and it dominated my life. How 512 00:28:57,836 --> 00:29:00,716 Speaker 1: long did it take you to write that? Three weeks? 513 00:29:00,716 --> 00:29:04,796 Speaker 1: Three weeks? Yeah, I would go maybe go to theater 514 00:29:06,836 --> 00:29:10,676 Speaker 1: to see a play, but I've been working on maybe 515 00:29:10,756 --> 00:29:15,716 Speaker 1: the pimples and the song, and I wouldn't enjoy the play. 516 00:29:16,076 --> 00:29:19,996 Speaker 1: I would wind up leaving the theater having solved nothing, 517 00:29:20,356 --> 00:29:25,116 Speaker 1: solved nothing on Alfie and not enjoy the play and 518 00:29:25,676 --> 00:29:29,556 Speaker 1: everything on promises, promises. When we did the musical, all 519 00:29:29,556 --> 00:29:33,436 Speaker 1: the words really that how would have to come up? 520 00:29:33,876 --> 00:29:36,676 Speaker 1: You couldn't write a melody out of a Neil Simon 521 00:29:36,836 --> 00:29:41,796 Speaker 1: script because the dialogue would go into a song and 522 00:29:42,396 --> 00:29:47,116 Speaker 1: it didn't seem to fit to sit down and imagine 523 00:29:47,156 --> 00:29:49,716 Speaker 1: what the song might be because you wanted to make 524 00:29:49,756 --> 00:29:53,996 Speaker 1: it again. The seamless thing I'm talking about, go from 525 00:29:54,036 --> 00:29:59,756 Speaker 1: the script the dialogue continues into song because it's just natural. 526 00:30:00,276 --> 00:30:04,476 Speaker 1: Otherwise I can't conceive a it doing it another way. 527 00:30:04,596 --> 00:30:06,916 Speaker 1: You know a little bit what Danny was talking about, 528 00:30:06,916 --> 00:30:09,556 Speaker 1: that that you didn't want people to feel a chorus 529 00:30:09,596 --> 00:30:12,756 Speaker 1: too soon. It's a little characteristic of some of your songs. 530 00:30:12,756 --> 00:30:16,116 Speaker 1: And Alphie's a good example where sometimes you're not quite 531 00:30:16,116 --> 00:30:18,716 Speaker 1: sure where it's going, like it's got a lot of momentum, 532 00:30:18,836 --> 00:30:21,596 Speaker 1: and then when it ends up because there's there's time 533 00:30:21,676 --> 00:30:26,916 Speaker 1: changes and the harmonies complex well you see, yeah, see 534 00:30:26,916 --> 00:30:30,756 Speaker 1: with Alphie that it just it took me to another 535 00:30:30,796 --> 00:30:33,996 Speaker 1: place by having words and became an eight bar phrase, 536 00:30:34,516 --> 00:30:36,596 Speaker 1: or it became a six bar phrase or a twelve 537 00:30:36,636 --> 00:30:41,596 Speaker 1: bar phraise, just by where the lyric took me. Right, Wow, 538 00:30:43,036 --> 00:30:47,036 Speaker 1: I like very much writing to Daniel's words if he 539 00:30:47,076 --> 00:30:49,356 Speaker 1: sends me. I mean, I had this one phrase on 540 00:30:49,476 --> 00:30:57,396 Speaker 1: Blue Umbrella, the hook the chorus. You know, are you 541 00:30:57,436 --> 00:31:01,116 Speaker 1: still under the same blue umbrella? You know? The way 542 00:31:01,156 --> 00:31:03,836 Speaker 1: you spaced it out you added an extra bar, so 543 00:31:03,956 --> 00:31:09,316 Speaker 1: it became are you still under the same blue out 544 00:31:09,356 --> 00:31:14,876 Speaker 1: of that and it's just a change like that, splitting 545 00:31:14,876 --> 00:31:16,996 Speaker 1: the word instead of going how are you still under 546 00:31:17,036 --> 00:31:21,436 Speaker 1: the same blue umbrella? And that drove the next four 547 00:31:21,516 --> 00:31:26,716 Speaker 1: bars just by that space. Yeah, it continues to evolve. 548 00:31:26,756 --> 00:31:28,916 Speaker 1: And you know Bert thinks about these things a lot. 549 00:31:28,956 --> 00:31:31,156 Speaker 1: You know, he spends a lot of time, Like I 550 00:31:31,236 --> 00:31:34,476 Speaker 1: heard that. You know, Duke Gallington could write arrangements and 551 00:31:34,596 --> 00:31:38,716 Speaker 1: orchestration in in in the midst of middle of chaos 552 00:31:38,716 --> 00:31:40,836 Speaker 1: with no piano. He could just take some paper out 553 00:31:40,836 --> 00:31:42,636 Speaker 1: and write stuff. And Burt's the same way. He can 554 00:31:42,676 --> 00:31:47,996 Speaker 1: sit down at his desk, no piano and just write orchestration. Um, 555 00:31:48,116 --> 00:31:50,756 Speaker 1: just just write it, write down violin parts, write down 556 00:31:50,796 --> 00:31:53,716 Speaker 1: all that stuff. It's wonderful to to to work with 557 00:31:53,756 --> 00:31:57,156 Speaker 1: Bert and watch the way that the musical ideas take 558 00:31:57,236 --> 00:32:00,476 Speaker 1: shape for him and be able to witness the process 559 00:32:00,516 --> 00:32:03,876 Speaker 1: for Bert of how an initial seed or you know, 560 00:32:04,236 --> 00:32:07,916 Speaker 1: of an idea can can expand in his mind and 561 00:32:07,996 --> 00:32:11,396 Speaker 1: what is involved as you're as you're building the structure 562 00:32:11,436 --> 00:32:13,516 Speaker 1: of a song and a melody, what's involved for him 563 00:32:13,556 --> 00:32:16,076 Speaker 1: and what boxes does it have? To tick. It's got 564 00:32:16,076 --> 00:32:18,516 Speaker 1: to you know, he's got to see the whole length 565 00:32:18,596 --> 00:32:21,036 Speaker 1: of it, the whole way, all the way through and 566 00:32:21,076 --> 00:32:23,636 Speaker 1: then forgive me, Burt if I'm you know, telling your 567 00:32:23,716 --> 00:32:26,516 Speaker 1: stories here for you, but right, but he's got to 568 00:32:26,556 --> 00:32:29,236 Speaker 1: see the melody, the long line of the melody, all 569 00:32:29,276 --> 00:32:31,916 Speaker 1: the way through, and then we can start to navigate 570 00:32:31,996 --> 00:32:34,836 Speaker 1: through there. But um, you know, the collaboration is so 571 00:32:34,916 --> 00:32:38,356 Speaker 1: great because we say yes to each other, you know. Um, 572 00:32:38,396 --> 00:32:41,116 Speaker 1: you know, he says, I don't think that the string 573 00:32:41,196 --> 00:32:43,796 Speaker 1: should come in the first first chorus, and I, you know, 574 00:32:43,876 --> 00:32:45,876 Speaker 1: I don't say no, man, we got to get him 575 00:32:45,876 --> 00:32:48,196 Speaker 1: in there. And I just say, okay, Bert, that sounds 576 00:32:48,236 --> 00:32:52,236 Speaker 1: great because I trust you, and he trusts my words 577 00:32:52,396 --> 00:32:55,596 Speaker 1: and the simplicity of whatever it is that I'm trying 578 00:32:55,636 --> 00:32:58,196 Speaker 1: to express with that he trusts it. He doesn't say, hey, 579 00:32:58,236 --> 00:33:00,916 Speaker 1: we don't need to be singing about this right now. 580 00:33:02,236 --> 00:33:04,996 Speaker 1: So we trust each other. And that's a beautiful thing. 581 00:33:05,396 --> 00:33:08,356 Speaker 1: It is absolutely you know, we were talking about the 582 00:33:08,396 --> 00:33:10,956 Speaker 1: feeling when you sit down in a in a movie 583 00:33:10,996 --> 00:33:14,236 Speaker 1: theater and the lights go down and it's a Steven 584 00:33:14,276 --> 00:33:17,956 Speaker 1: Spielberg film. You know that stevens got got you he's gonna, 585 00:33:18,076 --> 00:33:20,796 Speaker 1: he's gonna take on that ride. There's a similar feeling 586 00:33:20,956 --> 00:33:23,516 Speaker 1: with with your music. People you know, they know you 587 00:33:23,516 --> 00:33:27,196 Speaker 1: you're gonna you're gonna hold them um in in in 588 00:33:27,236 --> 00:33:29,276 Speaker 1: the palm of your hand and carry them through that 589 00:33:29,276 --> 00:33:31,756 Speaker 1: that song, with that that music tell me a little 590 00:33:31,756 --> 00:33:36,316 Speaker 1: bit about Whistling in the dark. About the writing of that, Yeah, well, 591 00:33:36,836 --> 00:33:39,036 Speaker 1: Daniel sent me a well I was I'll just say 592 00:33:39,036 --> 00:33:41,236 Speaker 1: real quickly about the lyric. I just wanted to make 593 00:33:41,316 --> 00:33:43,796 Speaker 1: something um. I like the phrase whistling in the dark 594 00:33:43,836 --> 00:33:47,276 Speaker 1: because it sounds like like somebody that's um going through 595 00:33:47,316 --> 00:33:51,996 Speaker 1: something hard and and and they're kind of consoling themselves 596 00:33:51,996 --> 00:33:54,876 Speaker 1: by sort of trying to create an atmosphere of lightness, 597 00:33:55,196 --> 00:33:59,116 Speaker 1: you know, within themselves. And we wrote that song before 598 00:33:59,636 --> 00:34:02,796 Speaker 1: you know, anybody knew anything about a pandemic or or 599 00:34:02,916 --> 00:34:06,876 Speaker 1: or any of that kind of uh, hard hardship that 600 00:34:06,956 --> 00:34:09,196 Speaker 1: was about to concurse. So there's something about Whistling in 601 00:34:09,236 --> 00:34:11,996 Speaker 1: the dark that's like, I'm I'm feeling that song right 602 00:34:12,036 --> 00:34:14,716 Speaker 1: now because I kind of have to take that song's 603 00:34:14,716 --> 00:34:17,796 Speaker 1: advice and just keep your eyes on the horizon and 604 00:34:17,956 --> 00:34:19,316 Speaker 1: keep your eyes on the light. At the end of 605 00:34:19,356 --> 00:34:21,396 Speaker 1: the tunnel, which you know it's going to come, it's 606 00:34:21,476 --> 00:34:24,436 Speaker 1: just it's going to be a minute. You know, there 607 00:34:24,516 --> 00:34:27,556 Speaker 1: was a hint of what was going I remember it 608 00:34:27,596 --> 00:34:30,436 Speaker 1: was one of the last songs we wrote, and there 609 00:34:30,636 --> 00:34:35,996 Speaker 1: was there was a sense of whistling in the dark. Yeah, 610 00:34:36,036 --> 00:34:38,956 Speaker 1: I think that Lowe me. So it was almost indicative 611 00:34:38,996 --> 00:34:43,116 Speaker 1: of what was to come. Do you feel that? Absolutely? 612 00:34:43,316 --> 00:34:45,956 Speaker 1: And m You know, whistling in the dark is one 613 00:34:45,996 --> 00:34:48,716 Speaker 1: of those examples of sometimes also you'll sing about something 614 00:34:48,756 --> 00:34:51,596 Speaker 1: as a singer and songwriter and then you don't realize 615 00:34:51,636 --> 00:34:54,716 Speaker 1: what you're singing about until later on it seems to 616 00:34:54,716 --> 00:34:57,676 Speaker 1: take on, you know, more meaning or you realize, oh, 617 00:34:57,716 --> 00:35:00,596 Speaker 1: I was really trying to process this thing that was 618 00:35:00,596 --> 00:35:02,756 Speaker 1: happening in my life. And that's a weird thing that 619 00:35:03,236 --> 00:35:05,396 Speaker 1: I don't know if you can resonate with that bird, 620 00:35:05,476 --> 00:35:10,476 Speaker 1: but um, I think so. I think because uh, there's 621 00:35:10,476 --> 00:35:14,196 Speaker 1: an element in that song like the intro, which is 622 00:35:14,356 --> 00:35:20,516 Speaker 1: very dissonant piano, and it's sort of like where did 623 00:35:20,556 --> 00:35:23,076 Speaker 1: that come from? I wanted to ask you both you 624 00:35:23,276 --> 00:35:26,196 Speaker 1: it sounds a little like like felonious monk, almost like 625 00:35:26,276 --> 00:35:30,116 Speaker 1: it's yeah, like it's falling apart a little bit right, 626 00:35:30,716 --> 00:35:37,316 Speaker 1: and then the ending uh is uh also basically asking 627 00:35:37,356 --> 00:35:42,556 Speaker 1: a question with the strings don't don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, 628 00:35:42,676 --> 00:35:46,756 Speaker 1: don't don't. You know where did that come from it? 629 00:35:47,116 --> 00:35:50,156 Speaker 1: Do you remember writing that that string part is beautiful 630 00:35:50,196 --> 00:35:53,876 Speaker 1: and the description of it is asking a question is 631 00:35:53,876 --> 00:35:57,836 Speaker 1: so interesting? Do you remember do you remember writing that bit? 632 00:35:57,916 --> 00:36:00,996 Speaker 1: What you were thinking or how it came to you? Um, 633 00:36:02,196 --> 00:36:07,876 Speaker 1: I knew I wanted and I got a definitely push 634 00:36:08,076 --> 00:36:12,916 Speaker 1: from my partner really, Daniel saying that thing you played 635 00:36:12,956 --> 00:36:17,316 Speaker 1: on the piano dissonant, very kind of weird. I love it. 636 00:36:17,676 --> 00:36:20,636 Speaker 1: So it starts that way and then in a very 637 00:36:20,676 --> 00:36:23,596 Speaker 1: weird way too. We'll be right back with the rest 638 00:36:23,676 --> 00:36:27,996 Speaker 1: of Bruce Headlum's conversation with Bert Backrack and Daniel Tashian 639 00:36:28,236 --> 00:36:34,996 Speaker 1: from back in twenty twenty. We're back with the rest 640 00:36:34,996 --> 00:36:39,676 Speaker 1: of Bruce's conversation with Bert Backrack and Daniel Tashian. The 641 00:36:39,756 --> 00:36:42,556 Speaker 1: songs you're writing now, because most of these were started, 642 00:36:42,956 --> 00:36:47,276 Speaker 1: you know, before the coronavirus. What are the songs like 643 00:36:47,396 --> 00:36:51,836 Speaker 1: now that you're writing? Well, every song is different. Yeah, 644 00:36:51,876 --> 00:36:53,796 Speaker 1: we were working on one of the songs, the newer 645 00:36:53,796 --> 00:36:58,196 Speaker 1: songs called twenty first Century Man, and it was a 646 00:36:58,196 --> 00:37:00,996 Speaker 1: little bit of a piece of music that I had started, 647 00:37:00,996 --> 00:37:02,556 Speaker 1: and I said to Bert, you know, do you want 648 00:37:02,556 --> 00:37:04,396 Speaker 1: to work on something that I kind of got started 649 00:37:04,396 --> 00:37:05,836 Speaker 1: on but I sort of don't know where to go 650 00:37:06,436 --> 00:37:08,356 Speaker 1: with it. And he said, sure, let's check it out. 651 00:37:08,396 --> 00:37:09,996 Speaker 1: So I played this little bit for him. So I 652 00:37:10,036 --> 00:37:12,516 Speaker 1: like that. So there's this one part where you're going 653 00:37:12,636 --> 00:37:16,316 Speaker 1: that sounds like something I've heard before, and we can 654 00:37:16,356 --> 00:37:19,276 Speaker 1: do better than that, and boy did we ever. I 655 00:37:19,316 --> 00:37:22,636 Speaker 1: thought that was interesting because I think I had come 656 00:37:22,716 --> 00:37:26,076 Speaker 1: from sort of an environment. There's something about being a 657 00:37:26,076 --> 00:37:29,516 Speaker 1: commercial songwriter in Nashville, and I've spent a lot of 658 00:37:29,596 --> 00:37:33,636 Speaker 1: years here writing commercial songs very ineffectively, I might add, 659 00:37:34,836 --> 00:37:36,836 Speaker 1: if you look at the statistics for the number of 660 00:37:36,876 --> 00:37:39,516 Speaker 1: cuts that I've gotten versus the number of songs that 661 00:37:39,556 --> 00:37:43,916 Speaker 1: I've turned in, it's pretty ridiculous. But I sort of 662 00:37:43,956 --> 00:37:46,516 Speaker 1: came from this environment of like it actually is a 663 00:37:46,556 --> 00:37:49,596 Speaker 1: good thing if something sounds like something you've heard before, 664 00:37:50,236 --> 00:37:52,316 Speaker 1: you know, And I feel like you kind of got 665 00:37:52,356 --> 00:37:54,996 Speaker 1: me back on track, Bert, because really, what I want 666 00:37:54,996 --> 00:37:58,316 Speaker 1: to be is innovative in everything I do. I want 667 00:37:58,316 --> 00:38:00,556 Speaker 1: to be I don't want to be sort of giving 668 00:38:00,596 --> 00:38:02,516 Speaker 1: you a hook because it sounds like, oh, I've heard 669 00:38:02,556 --> 00:38:04,836 Speaker 1: that hook before. You know that that's something I can 670 00:38:04,836 --> 00:38:07,036 Speaker 1: get stuck in my car. I want to I want 671 00:38:07,036 --> 00:38:10,516 Speaker 1: to innovate, and I think you you definitely do and 672 00:38:11,116 --> 00:38:13,516 Speaker 1: I think my tendencies are sort of leaning more in 673 00:38:13,556 --> 00:38:16,356 Speaker 1: that direction. I want to make this conversation about the 674 00:38:16,476 --> 00:38:18,636 Speaker 1: EP and the songs you're doing now because they're so good, 675 00:38:18,996 --> 00:38:23,716 Speaker 1: not about your whole career, Bert, because that would take 676 00:38:23,796 --> 00:38:28,436 Speaker 1: us a month, but just that story Daniel told of 677 00:38:28,476 --> 00:38:32,636 Speaker 1: you saying we can do better than that is probably 678 00:38:32,716 --> 00:38:37,716 Speaker 1: something everybody needs to hear, not just songwriters, but particularly songwriters. 679 00:38:38,476 --> 00:38:41,716 Speaker 1: Where does that come from? You're now in your nineties, yep, 680 00:38:42,036 --> 00:38:45,996 Speaker 1: you're putting out sensational music. Thank you, and you're the 681 00:38:46,076 --> 00:38:49,756 Speaker 1: guy saying no, no, no, we can do better than that. 682 00:38:50,436 --> 00:38:53,836 Speaker 1: Where does that come from in you? I think it's 683 00:38:53,876 --> 00:38:58,236 Speaker 1: a it's a growth process. Neil Simon, when we were 684 00:38:58,276 --> 00:39:04,036 Speaker 1: doing Promises Promises one night, made this comment. He said, 685 00:39:04,156 --> 00:39:08,396 Speaker 1: you know, you can get older, get fatter, but you're 686 00:39:08,436 --> 00:39:12,116 Speaker 1: not like Ana, who's finished at thirty two, said you 687 00:39:12,156 --> 00:39:16,356 Speaker 1: get to be eighty. That talent that you've got should 688 00:39:16,356 --> 00:39:20,396 Speaker 1: be nourished. You won't fall back. If somebody says, hey, 689 00:39:20,676 --> 00:39:22,836 Speaker 1: we got this new singer, could you write some of 690 00:39:22,916 --> 00:39:25,916 Speaker 1: the song for her and just make it sort of 691 00:39:25,956 --> 00:39:28,156 Speaker 1: like don't make me over? I would know how to 692 00:39:28,196 --> 00:39:32,876 Speaker 1: do that anymore. That's left me you can't repeat. Do 693 00:39:32,916 --> 00:39:35,556 Speaker 1: you mean it's left you in that you don't remember 694 00:39:35,556 --> 00:39:38,396 Speaker 1: how you wrote songs like that, or just that's not 695 00:39:38,516 --> 00:39:41,996 Speaker 1: something you're interested in doing. I couldn't do it because 696 00:39:42,116 --> 00:39:46,796 Speaker 1: I did it once and when it's done, don't repeat yourself. 697 00:39:48,156 --> 00:39:50,916 Speaker 1: I just want to say that the songs are just 698 00:39:51,076 --> 00:39:55,916 Speaker 1: wonderful and it is just a thrill to meet both 699 00:39:55,916 --> 00:39:58,556 Speaker 1: of you, and I think what you're doing is exciting 700 00:39:58,636 --> 00:40:01,996 Speaker 1: and I think we can do better. Is something I'm 701 00:40:01,996 --> 00:40:06,316 Speaker 1: going to remember the rest of my life. Appreciate you. Thanks, Bruce. Yeah, 702 00:40:06,356 --> 00:40:11,796 Speaker 1: you've been good, Bruce. That was Bruce Headlam's twenty twenty 703 00:40:11,796 --> 00:40:15,916 Speaker 1: conversation with Bert Backreq and Daniel Tashin about their ep 704 00:40:16,316 --> 00:40:19,716 Speaker 1: Blue Umbrella. You can subscribe to our YouTube channel at 705 00:40:19,756 --> 00:40:23,236 Speaker 1: YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast. We can find 706 00:40:23,316 --> 00:40:25,996 Speaker 1: all of our new episodes. You can follow us on 707 00:40:25,996 --> 00:40:29,916 Speaker 1: Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is produced with helpful 708 00:40:29,956 --> 00:40:34,796 Speaker 1: Lea Rose, Jason Gambrell, Benaladay, and Eric Sandler. Our editor 709 00:40:35,076 --> 00:40:39,156 Speaker 1: is Sophie Crane. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. 710 00:40:39,316 --> 00:40:41,716 Speaker 1: If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider 711 00:40:41,756 --> 00:40:46,036 Speaker 1: subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription 712 00:40:46,156 --> 00:40:49,636 Speaker 1: that offers bonus content an uninterrupted ad free listening for 713 00:40:49,636 --> 00:40:52,476 Speaker 1: four ninety nine a month. 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