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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at Breaking Points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give you, guys the best independent

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Speaker 2: coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about,

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Speaker 2: it just means the absolute world to have your support.

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Speaker 2: But enough with that, let's get to the show.

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Speaker 1: Good morning, everybody, Welcome to Breaking Points.

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Speaker 3: A bunch of stuff going on today, aamily.

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Speaker 4: This is a very full show.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we kept adding things up until like the

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Speaker 1: time I went to bed last night, so.

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Speaker 4: And then afterwards. Yeah true, oh very Elon was up,

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Speaker 4: Elon was sweeting.

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Speaker 1: The Tesla board was sweeting. Lots of things were unfolding

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Speaker 1: before we get to that. So that I don't forget

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Speaker 1: Spotify users. I know some of you guys are still

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Speaker 1: having issues getting the video to load. We are talking

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Speaker 1: to Spotify trying to work it out. We're kind of

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Speaker 1: at the whims of these tech giants, so please bear

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Speaker 1: with us. Sorry for the technical difficulties, but we're doing

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Speaker 1: everything we possibly can to resolve it. Because when it works.

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Speaker 1: It is a great experience on Spotify. So we're going

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Speaker 1: to keep working on that, all right. In the show today,

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Speaker 1: we have a Ukraine minerals deal. We have the leadst

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Speaker 1: with regard to terras, including Donald Trump basically going full

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Speaker 1: Grinch mode. Okay, no more dolls for little girls.

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Speaker 4: Totally support this.

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Speaker 5: The girls can only have two dolls, he said, maybe

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Speaker 5: you'd have thirty.

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Speaker 4: But now you only have two.

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Speaker 3: I have too.

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Speaker 4: We'll play the videos.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's something, It's really something.

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Speaker 1: As we were mentioning Elon, there was a report from

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Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal that Tesla is looking for a

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Speaker 1: new CEO Elon, and the Tesla board now disputing that.

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Speaker 1: But obviously that is a remarkable turn of events. And

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Speaker 1: Tesla's dock has been plummeting in the Trump two point

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Speaker 1: zero era and their sales have fallen off the cliff

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Speaker 1: because Elon is so toxic, etcetera. So a lot to

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Speaker 1: get into there. We've got some developments with regard to deportations,

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Speaker 1: including New York Times had a good story about m

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Speaker 1: Kelly and this deal that he cut with the Trump

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Speaker 1: administration to house what he was insisting had to be

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Speaker 1: criminals and was apparently reportedly according to this report, set

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Speaker 1: at the fact that the people that they sent to

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Speaker 1: him did not have criminal records there but nothing adjudicated

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Speaker 1: in the courts, or at least many of them did not.

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Speaker 3: So interesting insights.

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Speaker 1: They're also one of the pro Palestine students foreign students

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Speaker 1: who had been arrested and detained, has now been released.

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Speaker 1: And what the judge says about that is also quite

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Speaker 1: extraordinary and would have huge implications if this is upheld,

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Speaker 1: you know, in higher level courts, huge implications for all

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Speaker 1: of the foreign students who have been detained simply for

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Speaker 1: their speech with regard to Palacin. So that's a really

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Speaker 1: important one. We're going to have Dave Weigel join us

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Speaker 1: to do a little rundown of the early twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: eight DEM contenders JB. Pritzker, Big JB out there making moves.

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Speaker 4: Can we call them meetball JB?

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Speaker 3: That's inappropriate, That's we got to come up with something original.

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Speaker 3: Lets men have Rhonda Santis yet, come on it.

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Speaker 4: True, it do better. You're not right, Yeah, you're right,

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Speaker 4: you're right.

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Speaker 3: But he's being he got asked.

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Speaker 1: Weigel actually asked him an interesting question about like, well,

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Speaker 1: are you and oligarch and so his answer was was

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Speaker 1: pretty interesting and revealing any washersound there. Gretchen Whitmer is

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Speaker 1: out there, but with Donald Trump apparently, and not just

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Speaker 1: political instincts I've ever seen.

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Speaker 5: Butshers on Fox News, Whitmer is giving speeches in front

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Speaker 5: of Trump.

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Speaker 3: Trump's hundred day rounds.

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Speaker 4: You're weird, yep.

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Speaker 1: So lots of different tactics being deployed by these early contenders.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to get this story into the show. Mark

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Speaker 1: Andresen made some crazy comp i mean not crazy perfect

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Speaker 1: comments about AI where basically said he thinks AI is

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Speaker 1: going to replace everyone but him. Yeah, venture capitalists will

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Speaker 1: be the only ones who are not replaced by AI.

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Speaker 4: The valuable people. That's right. Yeah, that's whe we create.

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Speaker 3: Well truly irreplaceable. There's that industry.

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Speaker 4: No computer could ever.

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Speaker 1: These guys are amazing and we want to try to

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Speaker 1: get to some comments from Alex Jones little critique of

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Speaker 1: Trump alongside Fetess, who has long been critiquing Trump from

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Speaker 1: the right as a Nazi Trump not being Nazi enough

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Speaker 1: so but anyway, kind of interesting there and fits with

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Speaker 1: some of the other like little critiques that you've seen

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Speaker 1: come out of Magalworld visa be Trump.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I mean this is a big show, and part of

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Speaker 5: it is because Crystal. You just had to get Mark

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Speaker 5: andresen and the what it resist?

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Speaker 3: I can't.

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Speaker 1: I can't resist that code hand. What could I say?

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Speaker 4: Looking forward to it? It'll be good.

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Speaker 5: Let's start with the mineral deal in Ukraine. We can

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Speaker 5: put the first element up on the screen breaking news yesterday.

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Speaker 4: This is from the Wall Street Journal Ukraine.

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Speaker 5: US sign economic deal for minerals, and the journals subheading

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Speaker 5: there is the two countries finally reaching agreement after several

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Speaker 5: false starts. You'll remember the mineral deal is what was

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Speaker 5: on the table when Zelenski visited the White House and

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Speaker 5: the infamous Oval Office meeting transpire just a couple of

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Speaker 5: months ago.

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Speaker 4: Now they're back at it.

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Speaker 5: They finally got that deal signed, which I think Crystal

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Speaker 5: was very predictable that it was ultimately going to happen.

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Speaker 5: The fits and starts felt more like personnel personal I

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Speaker 5: should say not personnel personal hurdles for Zelensky and Trump

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Speaker 5: to both overcome in order to feel confident that it

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Speaker 5: made sense.

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Speaker 3: I don't even know personal hurdles, more like posture.

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Speaker 1: Because the reality is There's an incredible quote here from

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Speaker 1: this woman, Heidi Kribo Ruddicker, senior fellow at the Council

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Speaker 1: on Foreign Relations, who says this is a win win

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Speaker 1: deal because quote, the US will have a vested interest

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Speaker 1: in the geology that the Ukrainians will be fighting for.

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Speaker 1: And this is you know, this is what Zelenski had

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Speaker 1: been pushing, This is what Lindsay Graham had actually been

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Speaker 1: presenting as a way to keep the Trump administration invested

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Speaker 1: in Ukraine and committed to Ukraine. This is seen as

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Speaker 1: a security guarantee. It is being explicitly pitched as such,

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Speaker 1: with the idea being that if you have a bunch

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Speaker 1: of American capitalists, American billionaires who are profiting off of

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Speaker 1: the minerals in Ukraine, that they are de facto then

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Speaker 1: backing up the Ukrainian government, and that you know, that

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Speaker 1: would act as a deterrent for Russia continuing to fight,

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Speaker 1: and you know, it would basically create a situation where,

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Speaker 1: you know, some millionaires who are tied to Trump can

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Speaker 1: make a lot of money and if things go sideways again,

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Speaker 1: America will once again be on the hook for defending Ukraine.

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Speaker 1: Whether that's through continued weapons, shipments or whether it through

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Speaker 1: would ultimately be through you know, sending soldiers.

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Speaker 3: I don't want to like, you know, I don't want.

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Speaker 1: To fear monger here, but that's effectively the dynamic that's

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Speaker 1: being set up. This would be a long term engagement

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Speaker 1: in the future of Ukraine, which is why, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's what Selenski wanted, It's what Lindsay Graham wanted, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: And I, you know, I always thought that the show

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Speaker 1: in the in the Oval with Zelenski. You and I

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Speaker 1: differed on this saga, and I differ on this as well.

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Speaker 1: But my analysis at the time was that this was

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Speaker 1: a way for Trump to give some red meat to

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Speaker 1: the base because he had this big blow up and

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Speaker 1: he's yelling at Zelenski and all of these sorts of things,

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Speaker 1: which you know, the base was very happy about because

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Speaker 1: they've turned Zelenski into this villain. You know, they overtly

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Speaker 1: like dislike Ukraine and want Trump to completely break with them.

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Speaker 1: So he gave them that. But in the end, the

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Speaker 1: result is exactly what, you know, what was pitched from

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Speaker 1: the beginning.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, there's a The journal says there's a distinction that

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Speaker 5: was previously so it doesn't require Ukraine to repay past

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Speaker 5: military aid, and that I suppose is a pretty significant change,

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Speaker 5: but not dramatic. I mean, it's it's definitely a new thing.

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Speaker 5: But it also includes, as Wall Street Journal says, the

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Speaker 5: US being able to count new military aid into Ukraine

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Speaker 5: as a contribution to the fund. So yeah, makes sense

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Speaker 5: that they were able to reach this deal at this point. Obviously,

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Speaker 5: it's not the level of security guarantee that Zelensky was

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Speaker 5: fairly insistent on. That's what blew up the original deal

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Speaker 5: is that Zelensky didn't feel comfortable with a mineral deal

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Speaker 5: as a security guarantee. But it is seen as the

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Speaker 5: White House by the White House, as this is how

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Speaker 5: the journal puts it, quote a kind of security guarantee

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Speaker 5: for Ukraine. And I suppose that's true because there would

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Speaker 5: significant US business. There will be significant US business interests

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Speaker 5: on the table in Ukraine for this is a ten

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Speaker 5: year deal, but for the foreseeable future. Also crystal pretty

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Speaker 5: interesting question about what exactly exists to be mined right,

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Speaker 5: how much actually is there?

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Speaker 1: There was some reporting that Zelenski was kind of overblowing

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Speaker 1: over selling.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, what is actually there?

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Speaker 1: Now it's also could be possible that it's not fully known,

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Speaker 1: like it's not fully mapped out what sort of minerals

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Speaker 1: they're there. I was also wondering if the tariff, the

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Speaker 1: trade war has put a little bit of pressure on

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Speaker 1: the Trump administration to get this mineral deal done, because

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Speaker 1: China is of course cutting off the supply of some

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Speaker 1: of the rare earth minerals that would presumably be you know,

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Speaker 1: be available within Ukraine. So that may have also provided

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Speaker 1: some of the impetus to get this signed.

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Speaker 3: At this point.

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Speaker 1: And I should also say, you know, as we're recording this,

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Speaker 1: we don't actually have all the details. There's a few

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Speaker 1: details in this Wall Street Journal report. There's been a

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Speaker 1: few details that are on there public. We saw a

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Speaker 1: previous draft that included not only minerals rights, but basically

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Speaker 1: that the US would effectively economically colonize Ukraine with control

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Speaker 1: over you know, half of ports and half of a

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Speaker 1: lot of economic activity in the country in perpetuity, above

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Speaker 1: and beyond the minerals rights. But as of yet we

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Speaker 1: don't know if that is what is entailed in this

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Speaker 1: in this deal that was ultimately signed or not. So

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Speaker 1: we'll await the details at the same time, Lindsay Graham

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Speaker 1: is in the Senate pushing you know, an even more

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Speaker 1: aggressive sanctions regime against Russia, an attempt I guess to

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Speaker 1: get them to come to the table. They seem to

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Speaker 1: be quite resist, resistant to coming to any sort of

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Speaker 1: deal at this point because they have the upper hand

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Speaker 1: in this war, including you know, behoming Kiev in a

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Speaker 1: way that required Trump to weigh in with his Vladimir

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Speaker 1: Stop tweet. But let's put Lindsay up on the screen here.

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Speaker 1: He's forging ahead, they say, on a plant and pose

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Speaker 1: new sanctions on Russia, steep tariffsun countries that buy Russian oil, gas,

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Speaker 1: and uranium, as Trump struggles to fulfill his campaign promise

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Speaker 1: to end the war. In terms of the votes, it

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Speaker 1: looks like Lindsey Graham does have the votes in the Senate.

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Speaker 3: Of course, that doesn't.

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Speaker 1: Guarantee that it would be brought to the floor. You

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Speaker 1: would need you know, John Thune to decide that this

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Speaker 1: needs to be brought to the floor.

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Speaker 3: By the end of the week. Lindsay Gram's predicting the bill.

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Speaker 1: Will have at least sixty seven co sponsors. That would

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Speaker 1: be enough to override even a potential presidential veto. Trump

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Speaker 1: himself has not weighed in on this, on this potential

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Speaker 1: bill that Lindsay Graham is working on, But I mean,

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Speaker 1: we already threw a lot of sanctions in Russia. We

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Speaker 1: threw effectively the entire sanctions playbook at Russia, and it

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Speaker 1: you know, it didn't have no impact, if there was

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Speaker 1: an impact, but it was not nearly what economists expected,

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Speaker 1: and in fact, it really ended up demonstrating a lot

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Speaker 1: of impotence on the part of the US because it

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Speaker 1: showed that you could throw the entire sanctions playbook at

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Speaker 1: Russia or at any nation and that they would be

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Speaker 1: able to survived and would be able to withstand that.

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Speaker 1: And I think it also gave China even a bit

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Speaker 1: of a dry run of what this could look like

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Speaker 1: if there was the sort of trade war, the sort

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Speaker 1: of complete economic cutoff that they're facing from US right now.

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Speaker 1: So interesting, you know, not surprising from Lindsay Graham taking

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Speaker 1: even more aggressive hawkish approach, but that's what's on the

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Speaker 1: table now.

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Speaker 5: Well, yeah, and you know, it's important to actually think

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Speaker 5: it's a really important story to tack onto the context

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Speaker 5: of signing this deal, because the hopeful you know, even

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Speaker 5: though this involves colonizing Ukrainian mineral resources. And by the way,

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Speaker 5: I mean they do have Apparently they have twenty of

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Speaker 5: fifty critical minerals, minerals that we consider critical, so that's

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Speaker 5: like lithium and graphite, titanium, uranium, to your point, rare

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Speaker 5: minerals that could have something to do with There could

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Speaker 5: be added incentives based on the tariff struggles in the

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Speaker 5: last couple of months from the Trump administration.

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Speaker 4: But they're also incredibly corrupt.

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Speaker 5: This was the entire Republican argument against Barisma and Hunter Biden,

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Speaker 5: and so it's definitely putting the United States into a

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Speaker 5: complete economic mess that has military implications in Ukraine. But

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Speaker 5: hopefully what this means at the very least, and it's

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Speaker 5: not nothing, is that we're on a glide path to

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Speaker 5: an actual ceasefire, so that the thousands of people who

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Speaker 5: are dying every single day, that those further lives can

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Speaker 5: be safe because these battle lines are probably going to

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Speaker 5: be whatever ceasefires eventually reached, it's probably going to look

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Speaker 5: like where the battle lines are right now in all likelihoods.

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Speaker 5: So Lindsay Graham continuing the saber rattle seems super unhelpful.

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Speaker 4: To the entire purpose of inking this particular deal. But

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Speaker 4: we'll see where things go.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, indeed, I mean I think there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: question marks. It's hard to see. It doesn't feel like

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Speaker 1: we're terribly close to a cease fire at this point,

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Speaker 1: but you never know where we're going to end up.

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Speaker 1: And certainly, by signing this minerals deal, you are committing

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Speaker 1: the US to Ukraine for the long term so that

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Speaker 1: a bunch of billionaires can get their stuff and get

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Speaker 1: their rare earth minerals out of the ground benefit from it.

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Speaker 5: You know. This is another thing the Journal had a

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Speaker 5: story on not long ago, is that Chevron and Shell

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Speaker 5: have tried to mind in Ukraine, but the corruption in

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Speaker 5: Ukraine has made it extremely difficult for that process to

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Speaker 5: be done in a way that's profitable for them.

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Speaker 4: And so now we're just going.

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Speaker 5: Even fully more into the experiment of trying to extract

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Speaker 5: minerals from Ukraine in an effort to stop a brutal

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Speaker 5: conflict that would further I mean, if the United States

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Speaker 5: sates this has a potential security guarantee, that is a

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Speaker 5: really scary thing. Actually, yeah, right, Like we're at.

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Speaker 4: The whims of Ukrainian oligarchs.

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Speaker 5: I mean, we'll have more control over them now at

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Speaker 5: this point, although we always had control over them. But

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Speaker 5: that's what's so gross about this is that it's just

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Speaker 5: American oligarchs mingling their interest with Ukrainian aligarchs in the

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Speaker 5: lives of thousands of people hang in the balance based

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Speaker 5: on not just the military concerns but also the economic concerns.

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Speaker 5: So it's definitely not the cleanest solution to this war.

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Speaker 1: Unfortunately, unfortunately, Americans don't understand the word oligarchs, so I

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Speaker 1: don't think they're really going to be able to grasp

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Speaker 1: what's going on here. Emily, they don't watch enough breaking points.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's get to the tariffs. We had a

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Speaker 1: big cabinet meeting. It was so grotesque the level of

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Speaker 1: North Korea propaganda and like slavish devotion to the dear

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Speaker 1: leader that was on display.

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Speaker 3: We'll put that aside for the moment.

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Speaker 1: Trump sort of jumped in here and after the GDP

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Speaker 1: numbers came out and were really bad, and the inflation

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Speaker 1: numbers were bad, and the employment numbers were really bad,

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Speaker 1: he felt like he needed to say something about the

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Speaker 1: direction that the economy was going in and that something was,

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Speaker 1: it's all the fault of the last guy.

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Speaker 3: Let's take a lism.

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Speaker 6: You frequently took credit for the stock market highs. You

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Speaker 6: said it was a reflection of how well you were

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Speaker 6: doing in the polls. And then after you were elected,

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Speaker 6: you said the stock market highs were a reflection of

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Speaker 6: how well the transition's going and the American people's confidence

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Speaker 6: in your incoming administration. Now stock market's not doing so well,

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Speaker 6: and you're saying that's the Biden stock market. Yet you

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Speaker 6: are the president. Can you I'm.

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Speaker 7: Not taking a credit or discredit for the stock market.

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Speaker 7: I'm just saying that we inherited a mess both at

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Speaker 7: the borders. You could look at every single one of

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Speaker 7: the people here and no matter who it is, they're

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Speaker 7: doing better and they are far superior to what took

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Speaker 7: place for four years before us. When you look at

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Speaker 7: prisoners being allowed to come into our country at will,

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Speaker 7: just at will, people from mental institutions, gang members, drug dealers,

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Speaker 7: when you look at what they've done to our country,

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Speaker 7: and also having to do with finance, look at what

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Speaker 7: happened with inflation. We had the worst inflation probably in

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Speaker 7: the history of our country. They say forty eight years.

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Speaker 7: But I would say in the history of our country.

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Speaker 1: So he's not taking credit or discredit. But it is

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Speaker 1: all Binde's fault, which is also what he opened the

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Speaker 1: meeting up with, is like, you know, I know, you

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Speaker 1: saw some numbers. It's all Biden's fault. Put this up

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Speaker 1: on the screen. This is amazing. People were sharing this

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Speaker 1: two different, two different vibe here from Donald Trump on

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Speaker 1: true social So this latest one from April thirtieth, that

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Speaker 1: would be just this week. This is Biden's stock market,

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Speaker 1: not Trump's. I didn't take over until January twenty is

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Speaker 1: blah blah blah. But back in January of twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 1: he said this is the Trump stock market. So when

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Speaker 1: Biden was actually like in office at that point, he

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Speaker 1: was saying, oh, the stock market's good, it's because of me.

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Speaker 1: It's because my polls are so good. Everybody assumes I'm

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Speaker 1: coming back. That's why the stock market is doing great.

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Speaker 1: And now that he's actually in office, he's saying, no, actually,

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Speaker 1: this is Biden's stock mark.

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Speaker 3: Just amazing.

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Speaker 5: I mean he's always had this fixation understandably, So, I mean,

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Speaker 5: we could debate the value of stock market for the

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Speaker 5: average person's finances.

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Speaker 4: But he's always been obsessed with.

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Speaker 5: Tracking stock markets and in an effort to sort of

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Speaker 5: attach them to himself. When I mean, yeah, it's been

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Speaker 5: going up, so it's like great for him.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's the sort of real time indicator that's

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Speaker 1: kind of irresistible, you know.

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Speaker 5: One hundred percent right, And so it was that was

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Speaker 5: actually always one of the things I found somewhat amusing

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Speaker 5: to extend anything was amusing during the Liberation Day couple weeks.

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Speaker 5: I mean, honestly, there were many things that we're amusing

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Speaker 5: during those couple of weeks, but it was always like

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Speaker 5: he has been obsessed with his influence on the stock

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Speaker 5: market for this long. How is he going to handle it?

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Speaker 5: It turns out he has already made excuse, it's just Biden.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly right.

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Speaker 1: So one person in particular day Port apparently not buying

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Speaker 1: the spin here from Trump, we can put this up

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Speaker 1: on the screen from him, he says, what's that old expression,

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Speaker 1: don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.

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Speaker 3: Well, that applies here.

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Speaker 1: The stock market is a direct reflection of Trump's first

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Speaker 1: one hundred.

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Speaker 3: Days in office.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't mean it won't get better, and that we don't

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Speaker 1: need to be patient. But this is his market, not Biden's.

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Speaker 1: So Portnoy has been has said some other things critical.

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Speaker 3: I think he doesn't like the tariffs.

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Speaker 1: He did originally say something critical about the Trump shitcoin

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Speaker 1: before sort of reversing course and being.

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Speaker 3: Like, this is great. I'm going to get rich off

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Speaker 3: of it. Whatever.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, he's high profile, and so anytime he says

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Speaker 1: something critical it is interesting. This is really the moment

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Speaker 1: from this cabinet meeting and press conference.

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Speaker 3: That is so wild to me.

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Speaker 1: So he's getting asked about the price of toys in particular,

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Speaker 1: and you know, yes, Christmas feels a long way away now,

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Speaker 1: but actually the retailers who would mean to stock up

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Speaker 1: for Christmas there should be placing those orders right now,

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Speaker 1: and all of that is kind of on hold. So

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Speaker 1: he gets asked a question in this direction. Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to his response.

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Speaker 8: They made a trillion dollars when with Biden a trillion dollars,

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Speaker 8: even a trillion one with Biden selling this stuff, much

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Speaker 8: of it we don't need, you know. Somebody said, oh,

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Speaker 8: the shelves are going to be open, Well, maybe.

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Speaker 9: The children will have two dollars instead of thirty dollars,

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Speaker 9: you know, and maybe the two dolls will cost a

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Speaker 9: couple of bucks more than they would normally, But we're

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Speaker 9: not talking about something that we have to go out

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Speaker 9: of our way.

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Speaker 8: They have ships that are loaded up with stuff, much

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Speaker 8: of which not all of it, but much of which

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Speaker 8: we don't need.

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Speaker 1: Many people saying like, okay, you're just the grunch now,

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Speaker 1: like that that's your political move is just like the kids,

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Speaker 1: they don't need toys. What are we talking about here?

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Speaker 5: It's wild that he actually said it, right, because that's

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Speaker 5: the underlying it's you know, this is like sort of

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Speaker 5: cut pastint coming out and saying the essence of the

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Speaker 5: American dream is not cheap goods. And that caught a

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Speaker 5: lot of people on the right sort of off guard

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Speaker 5: because it's the conversation that has been percolating in like

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Speaker 5: white paper intellectual circles on the right for the last

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Speaker 5: like five ish years.

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Speaker 4: But the problem is it's.

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Speaker 5: A political disaster because you have to say things like,

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Speaker 5: for example, maybe the kids will have two dollars instead

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Speaker 5: of thirty.

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Speaker 3: And they're going and those two dollars are going to

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Speaker 3: cost more.

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Speaker 5: Yes the way, well, oh my gosh, absolutely, But that's

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Speaker 5: the I mean, it's true that at this point you

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Speaker 5: could probably get thirty dollars for like three hundred dollars,

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Speaker 5: and it's kind of insane. I mean, there's definitely a

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Speaker 5: bubble right now in cheap prices, but to actually do

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Speaker 5: what Donald Trump has done with the tariff regime that

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Speaker 5: he's put in place, two dolls, we're using the dolls

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Speaker 5: as a proxy for toys in general. That's I mean,

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Speaker 5: that's not what the American people are used to, is

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Speaker 5: not what the American people want, And good luck taking

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Speaker 5: that argument to the voters.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I know he doesn't have to get re elected,

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Speaker 4: although we can well we'll see what he said. What

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Speaker 4: do you have to say about that?

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Speaker 5: But man, other Republicans do Ja d Vance might have

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Speaker 5: to run for president at some point.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, here's here is the thing. And I

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Speaker 1: feel like a broken record. If there was some deal

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Speaker 1: on the table which was, Okay, your kids are not

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Speaker 1: going to get thirty dollars, they're going to get to

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Speaker 1: but you're going to be able to afford housing, you're

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00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:40,960
Speaker 1: going to be able to get healthcare, education is going

440
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:42,680
Speaker 1: to be cheaper, it's going to be you know more

441
00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:45,080
Speaker 1: it's going to be higher quality. You're going to be

442
00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:47,040
Speaker 1: able to have a better work life balance. Like if

443
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,720
Speaker 1: there was another social contract on the table that had

444
00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:52,920
Speaker 1: some upside.

445
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:53,320
Speaker 3: Then we could talk.

446
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:56,040
Speaker 1: We could talk, right, we could consider maybe that is

447
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,920
Speaker 1: an improvement over. Basically, the American dream is centered or

448
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,199
Speaker 1: around cheap consumer goods. That is the American dream at

449
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,040
Speaker 1: this point, as has been sold and implemented over decades

450
00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:06,600
Speaker 1: and decades.

451
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:07,960
Speaker 4: There is no.

452
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:09,479
Speaker 3: Alternative deal on the table.

453
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:13,720
Speaker 1: So all that he's advertising here is my plan is

454
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:16,000
Speaker 1: going to make you poor. You're going to be able

455
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:17,760
Speaker 1: to buy fewer things. Those things are going to be

456
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:21,320
Speaker 1: more expensive, and there is no compensation for that on

457
00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,320
Speaker 1: the other side. So, and which is why this has

458
00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:27,440
Speaker 1: been profoundly unpopular. I mean, of all the things that

459
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,240
Speaker 1: he has done, many of which almost all of which

460
00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:34,520
Speaker 1: have been profoundly unpopular in this second.

461
00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:36,480
Speaker 3: Term the Teriff regime.

462
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:38,600
Speaker 1: When you ask people what's his biggest grew up, it

463
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:39,399
Speaker 1: jumps off.

464
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,800
Speaker 3: The page in terms of what they're concerned about.

465
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,320
Speaker 1: And so I think it would always be difficult to

466
00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:47,760
Speaker 1: ask people at this point in time in American history

467
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:51,160
Speaker 1: to sacrifice in service of some larger goal. I think

468
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,280
Speaker 1: that would be a difficult sell in general. But there

469
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,880
Speaker 1: is no larger goal that is being offered or advertised

470
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,040
Speaker 1: or has any like clear cut paths being achieved, right,

471
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,120
Speaker 1: So instead you're just telling people your kids.

472
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 3: Are going to be unhappy on Christmas and.

473
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 1: You are going to be poor and able to afford

474
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:09,240
Speaker 1: less stuff than you can afford.

475
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:11,040
Speaker 5: Now, there's no clarity or light at the end of

476
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,199
Speaker 5: the tunnel. And I think the other word that we

477
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:16,200
Speaker 5: come down on a lot of certainty, because with more

478
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:21,879
Speaker 5: certainty you could understand how companies would be adjusting with employment,

479
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:25,600
Speaker 5: they would be adjusting with their plans for the future.

480
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,679
Speaker 4: One of the interesting parts of the GDP report yesterday.

481
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,080
Speaker 4: Actually we did talk about that yesterday, But.

482
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:35,199
Speaker 5: That's I think the difficulty, both politically and on the

483
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,199
Speaker 5: substance for the administration going forward is that if you

484
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,879
Speaker 5: want to make this case that maybe people won't be

485
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 5: getting thirty things on shean for three bucks whatever, and

486
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:51,440
Speaker 5: they'll have to buy five things that cost twenty dollars instead,

487
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:52,240
Speaker 5: if you want to make that.

488
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:56,520
Speaker 4: Argument, you have to have a lot to show for the.

489
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 5: Point about this being manufacturing in the US, like creating

490
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:03,679
Speaker 5: jobs being built here revitalizing communities, and obviously that's a

491
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:04,960
Speaker 5: very difficult thing to do within the.

492
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 4: First month of this.

493
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 5: But what we've seen evidence wise is a whole lot

494
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:12,119
Speaker 5: of manufacturers leaving and jobs leaving, and we have not

495
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:15,520
Speaker 5: seen deals inked with like serious substance of deals inked

496
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,199
Speaker 5: with other countries. Yeah, and so that's where I mean,

497
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:21,120
Speaker 5: that's both the substance in the style being married into one.

498
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:23,119
Speaker 5: That's where it's going to get really difficult for them

499
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:24,120
Speaker 5: to keep making that case.

500
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,439
Speaker 3: It reminds me, this rhetoric reminds me of like the

501
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 3: de growth Left.

502
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 1: You know, Oh, great point, which is absolutely politically toxic

503
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 1: and unpopular.

504
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:34,880
Speaker 4: No, that's such a good point.

505
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:38,200
Speaker 1: And there's a reason why when the Green New Deal

506
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,760
Speaker 1: came out and they screwed up when they sent out

507
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 1: the draft and there was like some language in there

508
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 1: about cutting back on meat consumption or something like that,

509
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 1: and they ran away from it at a million miles

510
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 1: per hour because they knew, like, we we are going

511
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 1: to be in a completely politically untenable position if we're

512
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 1: asking people to give up some of the things that

513
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 1: they are accustomed to and that they enjoy and appreciate,

514
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,119
Speaker 1: and so even though look, the reality is that factory

515
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,359
Speaker 1: farming does produce a lot of emissions.

516
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:09,440
Speaker 3: There is just a recognition in the.

517
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 1: Sort of like Green New Deal Left that some of

518
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 1: these things you just they're just politically effectively impossible, and.

519
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 3: So yeah, that's to me. And this is you know,

520
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 3: the abundance.

521
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:23,199
Speaker 1: Guys kind of talk about this, how the Trumpian program

522
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 1: is this anti growth very aligned in a certain way,

523
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:32,160
Speaker 1: in a certain like ideological way with that de growth Left,

524
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 1: and yeah, it's totally politically toxic. So if you are

525
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:38,720
Speaker 1: going to sell something like your kids are going to

526
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,560
Speaker 1: have fewer toys on Christmas Day, which again I think

527
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:45,399
Speaker 1: there is some merit to a potential shift in the

528
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,439
Speaker 1: American social contract, there is a version of this that

529
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 1: I would be interested in. But you are not offering

530
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 1: anything to compensate for that loss.

531
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 3: All your program is is people are going to be poor.

532
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 1: And so you know, that's why it's thoroughly rejected. I

533
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 1: wanted to play this is kind of interesting. Is this

534
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:05,920
Speaker 1: guy Sean Ray, and he's the founder of the China

535
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 1: Market Research Group. He put on this short video talking

536
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,479
Speaker 1: about some of the reasons and we've talked about some

537
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: of this here, but some of the reasons that he

538
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 1: feels that China has the upper hand in terms of

539
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: this trade war, which is definitely something that the Trump administration,

540
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 1: the Scott Vessons of the world would definitely dispute. But

541
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 1: let's just take a listen to his analysis here of

542
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 1: why he thinks China will ultimately win.

543
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 10: China is no longer buying American beef, They're buying beef

544
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:35,440
Speaker 10: from Australia. China is no longer buying oil from the

545
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:39,199
Speaker 10: United States, They're now buying oil from Canada. China is

546
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:44,120
Speaker 10: no longer buying American soybeans, They're now buying soybeans from Brazil.

547
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 10: China is no longer buying Boeing airplanes Shaman Airlines actually

548
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 10: just refused to accept a Boeing airplane that had just

549
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 10: arrived in China. They're now instead buying air buses from France.

550
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 10: Or they're expanding Comak, the Chinese indigenous, homegrown domestic airplane brand,

551
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,160
Speaker 10: which they just signed a deal to sell several Comacs

552
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:11,359
Speaker 10: to Malaysia. So what's happening is the entire world's system

553
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 10: is shifting. China can basically buy everything that America sells

554
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 10: except for semiconductors from other countries. The United States can

555
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 10: only buy antibiotics, refined rare earth, iPhones computers from China.

556
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 3: I think those are some solid points.

557
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 1: I don't know if you saw this, Emily, but even

558
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:35,920
Speaker 1: on the semiconductor piece. So, Huawei is now testing its

559
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 1: newest and most powerful marine for the Wall Street Journal

560
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 1: artificial intelligence processor. The company hopes it can replace some

561
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 1: of the higher end products of US chip giant Nvidia.

562
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 1: So they've also come a long way in terms of

563
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 1: positioning themselves even to replace some of that you know,

564
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 1: super high end chip technology that previously had been inaccessible

565
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:55,639
Speaker 1: to them, and some of that has been you know,

566
00:26:55,720 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 1: the necessity of innovating in the face of the the

567
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 1: export controls that have been put in place by the

568
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 1: Biden administration as well.

569
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,359
Speaker 5: Yeah, and you know, this to me also is sort

570
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 5: of a case for what Trump is doing because it's

571
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 5: so dire, like the supply chain problems are so bad.

572
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 4: But it's a case against what he's doing because he's

573
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 4: doing it in a way that makes so little sense,

574
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 4: that's right.

575
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,400
Speaker 5: So it's it's on the one hand, an argument about

576
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 5: how bad the situation is. The other hand, it's an

577
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 5: argument about how bad the attempt to write the ship Like,

578
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 5: how bad our attempt to address a.

579
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 4: Bad situation has been. Yeah, Like there's a.

580
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,439
Speaker 5: There's a good way to do this, and an important

581
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 5: way to do this, and an argument that should be done,

582
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 5: and then there's a way to do it that makes

583
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 5: the situation worse.

584
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:41,479
Speaker 1: Let's go and put this next piece up on the screen.

585
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 1: This is tracking these shipments from China to the US,

586
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:47,679
Speaker 1: and we're all just kind of waiting for this to

587
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 1: like truly and fully hit. CBS has this report. China

588
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,360
Speaker 1: exports to US plunge as tariff's hit, leading some experts

589
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 1: to warn of product shortages. Shipments of goods from China

590
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 1: and US are dropping sharply. The trade war between China

591
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:04,360
Speaker 1: and US has escalated, with each nation hiking its import duties.

592
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,159
Speaker 1: They say that at the Port of La, which along

593
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 1: with the Port of Long Beach receives roughly forty percent

594
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 1: of all imports from Asia, shipments last week we're down

595
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 1: ten percent compared with the same period one year earlier,

596
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,400
Speaker 1: and they are predicting the Port of La executive director

597
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 1: is predicting that in two weeks time, arrivals are going

598
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 1: to drop by thirty five percent. Flexport has even more

599
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 1: dire readings. According to their estimates, bookings from China to

600
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,160
Speaker 1: the US are already down by as much as sixty percent,

601
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 1: So you're already starting to see an extraordinary slow down here.

602
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 3: And look, the large retailers.

603
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: Are going to be able to sort of weather the

604
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 1: storm and be able to figure it out.

605
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 3: That doesn't mean that there aren't going to be some

606
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 3: shortages in the.

607
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 1: Walmarts and home depots and targets and costcos of the world.

608
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: But the people who are really going to get screwed

609
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 1: are small and medium business owners, even from the perspective

610
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 1: of how much they have to invest in understanding what

611
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 1: the new policy regime is every single day. I was

612
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 1: also reading this morning the deminimous exemption for you know,

613
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 1: direct shipping under eight hundred dollars, where you're exempt from

614
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 1: the import duties from the terraffs that is going away,

615
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,719
Speaker 1: And you know that is like, again, that's something that

616
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: I could imagine exactly right, But in the context of

617
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 1: all of this other that in and of itself is

618
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 1: this like massive profound change that is going to have

619
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: huge riverbrating impacts, not just for the Sheans and Timos

620
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: of the world, but for lots of small businesses who

621
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 1: avail themselves of this deminimous exemption to be able to

622
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 1: buy supplies and run their own businesses. And so this

623
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 1: is going to be you know, real hit for them

624
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 1: as well. And the fact that every day, seemingly there's

625
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 1: a new policy, things are shifting.

626
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 3: The tariff is changing, even the at the border.

627
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 1: You know, the customs officers who have to calculate these things,

628
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 1: they don't know what's going on, so they're not applying

629
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 1: the correct rates at times as well. Just up with

630
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: that is impossible to do as a smaller, medium sized business.

631
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, and so the Trump administration this is also very interesting.

632
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 5: I was talking to someone who works in Congress last

633
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 5: night about this. Larry Kudlow pointed out what he was

634
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 5: looking through the GDP report that one of the reasons

635
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,719
Speaker 5: the numbers may not have been as bad as it

636
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 5: was as some people thought it might end up being,

637
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 5: even though so we could talk about it was the

638
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 5: projections versus what actually happened. But he said that if

639
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 5: you're looking at the increase in factory equipment, that sort

640
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 5: of thing, which is always an interesting indicator, twenty two

641
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 5: percent growth in business equipment.

642
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 4: And machinery investment.

643
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 5: He says it does not spell recession because of that

644
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 5: canary in the coal mine, or what could be a

645
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 5: canary in the coal mine.

646
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 4: He's making this point.

647
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 5: That Trump and his advisors have been going to the

648
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 5: business community and saying the tax bill is going to

649
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 5: include one hundred percent rite offs for investment or expenses

650
00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 5: on business, factory and building that's retroactive to January twentieth.

651
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 5: You look at that and you're like, that's kind of

652
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 5: an industrial policy in an incentive structure way. In a way,

653
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 5: that's like using tax cuts, although they also have their

654
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 5: revenue problem in front of them, so that's a different story.

655
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 5: But that's their attempt. And you can see how some

656
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 5: of those things will help. Being able to write off

657
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 5: business factory and building expensively, that's huge, one hundred percent

658
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 5: right off on those things.

659
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 4: So you kind of see how that stuff will help, but.

660
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 5: It's not enough, and it's not even being packaged by

661
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 5: them as industrial policy.

662
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 4: You need to get people back into the labor force

663
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 4: in some of these communities.

664
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 5: You need to make sure that these jobs are good,

665
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 5: steady work that competes with service sector work. So I mean,

666
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 5: if their plan is to pass a big tax cut

667
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 5: that includes a corporate tax rate hike to I think

668
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 5: bestt wants to take it from twenty one to fifteen percent.

669
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 4: That's the latest news. Again. Could that help with reshoring, Yes,

670
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 4: but that is I.

671
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 5: Mean, you're taking a real gamble if you're putting all

672
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 5: your eggs in the tax cut basket as your industrial policy.

673
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 1: Well because I mean last time with the tax cut,

674
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 1: most of them did like share buybacks, you know, to

675
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 1: create some manufacturing renaissance. So and this is the problem

676
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 1: when you're trying to, you know, just hope the market

677
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 1: does its thing, and you're not taking an affirmative, affirmative

678
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: action to make sure that capital.

679
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 3: Is doing what you want it to do.

680
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 1: And you know that's his theory is basically you can

681
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,479
Speaker 1: just sort of like slap some tariffs on and you know,

682
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 1: throw a tax cut at them, and they're going to

683
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 1: invest in, create product lines and do what you want.

684
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: But no one's going to be investing anything if we're

685
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 1: in a recession like that's just you know, everybody's going

686
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 1: to pull back. Everybody's already pulling back and It's important

687
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 1: to remember those GDP numbers, which were already really bad.

688
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 1: That's before the tariffs were even announced or introduced. So

689
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 1: you know, that's I think what should be making people

690
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 1: really nervous is that we have not yet seen the

691
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 1: full economic impact of quote unquote Liberation Day. Here's another,

692
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: you know, not great sign. Dollars General is one of

693
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 1: the stocks that has been the best performers of Trump's

694
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 1: first one hundred days. And actually the full the list

695
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 1: of the top three performing stocks is quite grim, quite

696
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 1: Ryan Grimm, there's a Pallenteer good, Dollar General, and Philip Morris.

697
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 1: Those are the top three performing stocks of Trump two

698
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 1: point zero Emily.

699
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 4: So, how does that make you feel the Golden Age?

700
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 4: Clearly it's the Golden age. I mean you can smoke your.

701
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 1: SAgs, you can get by an AI robot, and you

702
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 1: can go to the Dollar General, and you.

703
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 4: Know, there's what's not to love.

704
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 5: I don't understand dollars Actually.

705
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 4: You could probably get thirty at Dollar General now.

706
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 3: Today, yes, but you know in the future by Christmas.

707
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 4: Time that is bleak, bleak.

708
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 1: I thought that was pretty depressing personally, No, thanks for that,

709
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 1: good morning. One last piece here, which you know, this

710
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 1: is I just thought this was funny. We put this

711
00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 1: up on the screen. This is Financial Times. You got

712
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: to be reading the Financial Time. I'm honestly every good

713
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 1: left he knows you have to read the Financial Times.

714
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 1: In any case, this guy, Stephen Myron, they described as

715
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,840
Speaker 1: a Trump top economic advisor, recently met with top bond

716
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 1: investors last week in an attempt to sort of calm

717
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:16,879
Speaker 1: the waters, like Oh, we've got a plan and here's

718
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: what we're doing, and don't worry.

719
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 3: We've got it.

720
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 1: And I'm pretty sure this is the guy who'd pen

721
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,239
Speaker 1: to report that in the early days of you know,

722
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,359
Speaker 1: the new tariff regime, people were pointing to of saying like, look,

723
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 1: they have a plan and it's this forty chess and here's.

724
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:30,359
Speaker 3: What's going on.

725
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 1: The problem is the report didn't match the reality of

726
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 1: what Trump was actually doing. But in any case, they

727
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 1: say here that they found his presentation, his comments around

728
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 1: tariffs and markets to be quote incoherent or incomplete. One

729
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 1: of them said Miren was out of his death and

730
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 1: said he got questions and that's when it all fell apart,

731
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 1: said one person familiar with the meeting. When you're with

732
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,520
Speaker 1: an audience that knows a lot. The talking points are

733
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: taken apart pretty quickly, so noteworthy they're both in terms

734
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 1: of the fact that they felt the need to go

735
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,919
Speaker 1: to these top bond investors and be like, Oh, it's good,

736
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 1: we got it. Don't worry, everything's good, and also that

737
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 1: they were extremely not impressed with the presentation, which they

738
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 1: described as incoherent.

739
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:17,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, not sending their best, to paraphrase Donald Trump himself,

740
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:18,280
Speaker 5: not sending their best.

741
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:23,759
Speaker 1: Yes, let's get to Elon because this was big news.

742
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 1: So the Wall Street Journal yesterday put out this report

743
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:30,360
Speaker 1: that Tesla is looking at moving on from Elon Musk,

744
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 1: that they are actively and have been actively searching.

745
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:34,800
Speaker 3: For a new CEO.

746
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:37,959
Speaker 1: Let's put this up on the screen, so they say,

747
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 1: Tesla board open search for a CEO to succeed Musk.

748
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 3: Let me read you a little bit of this. They say.

749
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 1: About a month ago, with Tesla's stocks sinking and some

750
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 1: investors irritated about Musk's white house focus, Tesla's board got

751
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,839
Speaker 1: serious about looking for his successor. Board members reached out

752
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,720
Speaker 1: to several executive search firms to work on a formal

753
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,879
Speaker 1: process for finding Tesla's next chief executive According to people

754
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,840
Speaker 1: familiar with the discussions, tensions had been mounting at the

755
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 1: company's sales and profits were deteriorating rapidly. Musk was spending

756
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:11,280
Speaker 1: much of his time in Washington. Around that time, Tesla's

757
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 1: board met with Musk for an update. Board members told

758
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 1: him he needed to spend time on Tesla, according to

759
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 1: people familiar, and he needed to say so publicly. Musk

760
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:24,919
Speaker 1: did not push back, So that is what they're saying.

761
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 1: I don't know if you have pulled up what Elon's

762
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 1: response was, but he and Tesla late last night denied

763
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:33,840
Speaker 1: the report, said this is an absolute fiction.

764
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 3: It's an absolute lie.

765
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,360
Speaker 1: I haven't checked in on Tesla's stock this morning, but

766
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 1: last night, after this Wall Street Journal report had come out,

767
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 1: it was plummeting even further than it already had been.

768
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:48,359
Speaker 1: And you know, it's wouldn't be a surprise like in

769
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:52,840
Speaker 1: any ordinary any normal company would look at the string

770
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 1: of events of Okay, our CEO is not even here,

771
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 1: like he's not even running the company, and his brand

772
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 1: is so toxic and specifically toxic to our particular customer

773
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:07,279
Speaker 1: base that this is just an utter disaster. But you know,

774
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:11,400
Speaker 1: it's Elon's baby. He stacked the board with people who

775
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 1: are mostly sick of fans, including like his brother and

776
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,439
Speaker 1: one of the Murdochs is on there, and there have been,

777
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 1: you know, questions about the independence of the board because

778
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 1: they are so closely tied to him. So that's why

779
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 1: for even this board to be making moves to move

780
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 1: on from Elon is really really, you know, pretty like

781
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 1: pretty shocking. There are also details here that apparently Elon

782
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 1: and I kind of guess this, that Elon is kind

783
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 1: of over running Tesla. He's kind of sick of still

784
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 1: being there, and he's been doing Tesla for a long time.

785
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 1: Maybe his heart's really in SpaceX at this point is

786
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 1: like Mars delusions. That's that's been my sense from the

787
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 1: outside and from reading reporting about him, the way he's

788
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:52,760
Speaker 1: oriented himself with regard to DOGE.

789
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:56,360
Speaker 5: But in any case, what's their response, so Elon, they're scrambling,

790
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 5: by the way to get all of this. As yesterday

791
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 5: the journal published this, When was this Crystal was like

792
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 5: later at night? I want to say, it was like

793
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,760
Speaker 5: around the evening, yes, oh okay, well it was upwardted

794
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 5: that's today They updated it apparently at seven forty five am.

795
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:12,719
Speaker 4: Probably with response to Elin.

796
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 5: But it was happening in the evening and so Tesla's

797
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 5: rambled to get a response together and posted a statement

798
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 5: at one I was think it was like one twenty

799
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 5: three am, and said earlier today there was a media

800
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 5: report erroneously claiming that the Tesla board had contacted recruitment

801
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 5: firms to initiate a CEO search at the company.

802
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 4: This is absolutely false, and this.

803
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,400
Speaker 5: Was communicated to the media before the report was published.

804
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 5: The CEO of Tesla's Elon Musk, and the board is

805
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 5: highly confident in his ability to continue executing on the

806
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 5: exciting growth plan ahead. Now, what they're narrowly denying here

807
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 5: is that the board had contacted recruitment firms to initiate

808
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 5: a CEO search.

809
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:52,280
Speaker 4: At the company. You can parse that in different ways.

810
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,800
Speaker 5: You could say maybe one or two people on the board,

811
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 5: not the board itself, acting as a collective, had flirted

812
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 5: with the idea and maybe talk to a couple of

813
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 5: people that they know in these business circles.

814
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 4: That's how it is. That you're like out a dinner.

815
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 5: And you're like, hey, would you potentially, you know, be

816
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 5: able to help us with a recruitment search at Tesla,

817
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 5: and then that person goes to the media. The journal

818
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,720
Speaker 5: has had the i would say, deepest reporting on Elon Musk.

819
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 5: And this is what's really irking musk heads right now

820
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 5: is that the journal is the one that had this

821
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 5: story because they're you know, already furious with the way

822
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 5: the journal is reporting on Musk. Musk quote tweets this

823
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:30,439
Speaker 5: is all happening literally at one thirty in the morning

824
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:33,360
Speaker 5: the Tesla statement and says all caps, it is in

825
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 5: all caps extremely bad breach of ethics that the Wall

826
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 5: Street Journal would publish a deliberately false article and fail

827
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 5: to include an unequivocal denial beforehand by the Tesla board

828
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 5: of directors. Now, I will say if Tesla's hold the

829
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 5: journal beforehand, that if they gave this statement to the

830
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 5: journal beforehand, basically saying that the board had not contacted

831
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,840
Speaker 5: recruitment firms, then the journal should have printed that. But

832
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 5: I also don't like believe that the journal just wouldn't

833
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 5: print that because it doesn't really poke.

834
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 4: A hole in their reporting.

835
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 5: I mean, it's a denial from a company, but everyone

836
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 5: knows that companies will issue narrow, carefully worded denials and

837
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 5: situations like this when you have robust sourcing in a

838
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 5: major newspaper.

839
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 4: So I started feel like they would have put that

840
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:16,759
Speaker 4: in there if they had it, no matter what.

841
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 5: It's not, you know, a super persuasive denial of everything

842
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:23,880
Speaker 5: that they're reporting here. So, I mean, it's not a

843
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:26,279
Speaker 5: great look for Musk, but it does make sense with

844
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 5: all of his moves over the course of the last month, Chrystial,

845
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:31,760
Speaker 5: you and I have talked about how that Wisconsin election

846
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:34,799
Speaker 5: felt like a turning point in Maga world when it

847
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,840
Speaker 5: came to Musk, and it seemed as though, you know,

848
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:40,720
Speaker 5: I think you and I had said this all along,

849
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 5: the quiet quitting of Musk would be the way that

850
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 5: this goes, rather than like a big kinetic explosion, was

851
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,760
Speaker 5: always going to be sort of a conscious uncoupling that eventually.

852
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 4: It just becomes untenable.

853
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 5: And because the relationship between Trump and Musk is so

854
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,759
Speaker 5: important of both of them, yeah, because for Trump it's

855
00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:00,360
Speaker 5: I mean, that's the money for the magnification of the

856
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 5: Republican Party going forward via America pack And for Musk, well, obviously,

857
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 5: this is the president of the United States. He oversees

858
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:10,840
Speaker 5: five major companies, so it makes sense. But it also

859
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 5: I think makes sense with the UH disintegration or the

860
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,399
Speaker 5: or Musk decision to take all of these steps back,

861
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 5: that this is what was happening behind closed doors with

862
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 5: his prized company. Obviously he loves Starlink and Boring and SpaceX.

863
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 5: His SpaceX is probably his favorite, who knows, But this

864
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 5: is Tesla, like this is his, this is his baby,

865
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 5: this is his what he's been known for most of

866
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 5: his career.

867
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 4: So you understand why it would be sort of a blow.

868
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, and that is exemplified by the fact that

869
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:43,360
Speaker 1: you know, we got Trump to do that, like Tesla

870
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 1: sale in the parking lot of the White House and

871
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,400
Speaker 1: the Pam Bondie is announcing that like, if you harbor

872
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 1: ill feeling towards Tesla, you're basically terrorists.

873
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 3: And whatever like it.

874
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:57,240
Speaker 1: Also, though, I mean, it is astonishing because the way

875
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:02,280
Speaker 1: that Musk being so cozy with try would hurt their

876
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 1: sales to a what has previously been mostly like an

877
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:11,799
Speaker 1: affluent liberal California customer base that is so incredibly predictable.

878
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 1: And you know, the stock really rose once Trump got

879
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 1: elected because everyone's like, oh, well, Elon is secondhand to

880
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 1: the king and he's going to be able to get

881
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:22,880
Speaker 1: all these works, true, but you still have to be

882
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,400
Speaker 1: able to sell cars, and not only here but around

883
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:29,240
Speaker 1: the world. Tesla sales really plummeted, I mean really plummeted.

884
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,319
Speaker 1: Cyber truck has been one of the greatest, you know,

885
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 1: automotive flops in history. Truly, even Tesla dealerships are not

886
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 1: even accepting cyber trucks as trade ins. That's how little

887
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 1: appetite there is for this very expensive and poorly created vehicle,

888
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 1: which has become this incredibly like political symbol that for

889
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 1: many people reads as extremely toxic. And so if you're

890
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 1: going to buy this really expensive thing, you also have

891
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 1: to expect you're going to get like flicked off and

892
00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 1: people are going to give you dirty looks and whatever.

893
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:00,319
Speaker 1: Most people just don't want to deal with that, right,

894
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 1: So in any case, not to mention, it's not really

895
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:07,360
Speaker 1: a vehicle that makes any sense anywhere except for America,

896
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 1: So you're limiting your market to begin with. Then you've

897
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:14,840
Speaker 1: got the trade war, which is bad for everybody.

898
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:18,320
Speaker 3: But Elon talked.

899
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,920
Speaker 1: About that on the investor call, and you know, a

900
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 1: lot of Tesla's hopeful growth was in China. China now

901
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 1: also with byd has. I mean, they've just out innovated

902
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 1: Tesla as well, like their product is better than Tesla

903
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 1: or the other ev makers here in America. So there's

904
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:38,720
Speaker 1: all source of issues, but the biggest one is Elon himself.

905
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:40,880
Speaker 1: So like I said, to get rid of him is

906
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 1: the most rational thing you could possibly do. But given

907
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 1: that the board is so closely tied to him, you know,

908
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:48,840
Speaker 1: I always thought it was kind of unlikely.

909
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:51,359
Speaker 3: So even the fact that even if it's not.

910
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 1: The whole board, but a few board members are reaching

911
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,320
Speaker 1: out to these executive search firms or whatever, is really

912
00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 1: quite something. We could put before up on the screen

913
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 1: of the Tesla stock which just shows you the you know,

914
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:06,720
Speaker 1: the surge after Trump's elected and then the germantic crash.

915
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 3: He's gained back a little bit, you know.

916
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:10,240
Speaker 1: Like I said, I haven't checked in with it today.

917
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 1: The last piece we have here just a sign of

918
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 1: his failure here in Washington as well, in the quiet quitting.

919
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 3: As Emily put it, he was at this cabinet meeting.

920
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 1: Yesterday, not a member of the cabinet and not a

921
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:24,439
Speaker 1: member of the cabinet, so you know, whatever that he's

922
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:26,879
Speaker 1: there to begin with, but he's not even the head

923
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 1: of doge according to Trump administration, in court.

924
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 3: But you know, previously at the.

925
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:34,720
Speaker 1: First cabinet meeting, he was standing up, he was holding court.

926
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 1: Everyone was doing some of their obsequiousness that they normally

927
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:39,880
Speaker 1: direct to Trump, they were doing that with Elon as well.

928
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 1: Now he's getting this sort of like, you know, the

929
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:45,480
Speaker 1: sort of like pity clap.

930
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:47,719
Speaker 3: It's more like what he's getting from Trump or like

931
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:49,880
Speaker 3: the pad like do you want to go to the car?

932
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 1: You know you could, you could stay, but I know

933
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 1: you want to get back to working on your cars,

934
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 1: don't you.

935
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:59,319
Speaker 3: So let's go ahead and take a listen to B two.

936
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,839
Speaker 1: And you know how things are going for Elon with

937
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 1: regards to the Trump administration.

938
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 7: But you have been treated unfairly.

939
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 11: But the vast majority of people in this country really

940
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 11: respect and appreciate you, and this whole room can say

941
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 11: that very strongs are really been a tremendous help.

942
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 7: You opened up a lot of eyes as to what

943
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 7: could be done, and we just want to thank you

944
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 7: very much. And you know you're invited to stay as

945
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:26,879
Speaker 7: long as you want.

946
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 9: At some point, he wants to get back home to

947
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 9: his cars at his.

948
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:36,319
Speaker 3: Time, So what were What were the vibes of that

949
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:36,879
Speaker 3: for you, Emily?

950
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:37,760
Speaker 4: It feels like a sendoff.

951
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 5: Doesn't that feel like when you know, one member of

952
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:43,360
Speaker 5: like the you know, drama club at high school is

953
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 5: about to graduate, Like one member of the basketball team

954
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:48,279
Speaker 5: is about to graduate. You know, Yeah, you did a

955
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:51,319
Speaker 5: great job. You know, you didn't start every game, but

956
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 5: you were always there. You had the heart, you had

957
00:45:53,520 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 5: what it took you. You'll always you will always remember

958
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 5: you didn't I feel like that.

959
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:03,319
Speaker 3: You were a critical part of this team.

960
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, you will always be a part of this team.

961
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 4: It had those vibes a little bit.

962
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 3: Absolutely.

963
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:10,280
Speaker 1: It's funny you went to the sports thing too, because

964
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 1: I was also thinking about you know, when like after

965
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 1: one of my kids plays a game and like it's

966
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 1: the other bus game, You're like, you did good, Like

967
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 1: you did good. You know, look, it's not always going

968
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:21,359
Speaker 1: to be your day. It's fine, but.

969
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:24,319
Speaker 4: You were good. But you were good. Yeah, I'm not

970
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 4: saying you weren't good. You were good, like great form. Yeah. No,

971
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 4: it does feel like that. And Trump at one point said.

972
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 3: This is a learning experience. You know.

973
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 5: Trump at one point said, you know, elin you know,

974
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 5: you're invited to stay as long as you want, which

975
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 5: is one hundred percent what you say when you're like

976
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 5: evicting someone, right, like politely evicting someone, just like a

977
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:49,239
Speaker 5: family member's been CouchSurfing for a while and they got them.

978
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:52,440
Speaker 1: It's been literally like CouchSurfing in some federal government office yelling.

979
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 3: So apparently, yeah, and.

980
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 4: They got the hint, right, like this person got the hint.

981
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,359
Speaker 5: They realized that, like you're a little tired of, you know,

982
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:00,719
Speaker 5: the CouchSurfing, and they're leaving, and you're like, you know,

983
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:02,799
Speaker 5: you're you're invited to stay as long as you want.

984
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 4: That was basically how you.

985
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:06,840
Speaker 1: Do it in Wisconsin, right, Yeah, of course, yeah, you

986
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:09,840
Speaker 1: can stay forever, but I know you have things you

987
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 1: want to do.

988
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 3: You want to get back to your cars, not here.

989
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:15,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, but I mean it's it's also like he's actually

990
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:17,720
Speaker 5: not invited to say as long as he wants unless

991
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:21,360
Speaker 5: he divests from like to be clear, he's only allowed

992
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 5: to stay for one hundred and eighty days based on

993
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:25,280
Speaker 5: the special government employee distinction.

994
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:26,800
Speaker 4: So technically is not invited.

995
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:30,319
Speaker 1: Yes, but which, as we've discussed before, you know, they're

996
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 1: a stickler for the rules and regulations in this administrative.

997
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:34,680
Speaker 4: Oh you know, one hundred and eighty one days.

998
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 3: Absolutely not unacceptable.

999
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 4: That's the red line. No way, no way Elon is ticking.

1000
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 4: It felt like a little send off. Yeah.

1001
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:45,959
Speaker 1: So anyway, that's what's going on with Elon as best

1002
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:50,880
Speaker 1: we know. But there were also some comments made at

1003
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,480
Speaker 1: this meeting from Marco Rubio with regard to deportation. So

1004
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:56,399
Speaker 1: let's get to that. So Marco Rubio saying that they

1005
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:59,919
Speaker 1: are exploring other countries outside of El Salvador to ship

1006
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 1: deportees to listic A.

1007
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 4: Listen, and I.

1008
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 12: Say this unapologetically. We are actively searching for other countries

1009
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:08,800
Speaker 12: to take people from third countries. So we are active,

1010
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:11,560
Speaker 12: not just El Salvador. We are working with other countries

1011
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 12: to say we want to send you some of the

1012
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 12: most despicable human beings to your countries. We do that

1013
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 12: as a favor to us, and the further away from

1014
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 12: America the better, so they can't come back across the border.

1015
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:22,799
Speaker 12: I'm not apologetic about it.

1016
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 13: We are doing that.

1017
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 12: If president was elected to keep America safe and to

1018
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 12: get rid of a bunch of perverts and pedophiles and

1019
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 12: child rapists out of our country.

1020
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 3: So searching for other countries.

1021
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:35,439
Speaker 1: You know, no details there about what countries or whether

1022
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:38,360
Speaker 1: they would also be shipped just to those countries or

1023
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 1: to prisons as they have been in El Salvador, this

1024
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 1: you know, place that people are never let it out

1025
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 1: of and there indefinitely. And it's interesting only because it

1026
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:51,480
Speaker 1: comes as there's this New New York Times investigation into

1027
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 1: the deal that the Trump administration made with bu Kelly,

1028
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 1: who called what does he call himself, like the coolest

1029
00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 1: dictator in.

1030
00:48:57,120 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 3: The world or something like that, dictor the cool deck.

1031
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 1: So anyway we could put this is ce five guys,

1032
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 1: if we could skip ahead to see five and put

1033
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:05,439
Speaker 1: this up.

1034
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:05,840
Speaker 3: On the screen.

1035
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:08,759
Speaker 1: So it turns out, you know, they have this sort

1036
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:12,160
Speaker 1: of contractual relationship where the Trump administration is paying some

1037
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:14,920
Speaker 1: amount twelve million is one of the dollar amounts I

1038
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:20,440
Speaker 1: heard floated of money to Bukelly to house these Venezuelans

1039
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:22,880
Speaker 1: who have been you know, who were summarily deported with

1040
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:26,279
Speaker 1: no due process whatsoever under the pretense that they were

1041
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 1: alien enemies and they were the worst of the worst,

1042
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:33,360
Speaker 1: and they were trender Ragua gang members. So in any case,

1043
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 1: Bikelly had apparently agreed to house only what he called

1044
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 1: quote convicted criminals in the prison. However, many of the

1045
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 1: Venezuelan Venezuelan men that had been labeled gang members and

1046
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 1: terrorists by the US government had not been tried in court.

1047
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 1: Mister Bkelly was willing to let the US use his

1048
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:56,760
Speaker 1: prisons with conditions. He told Rubio and Mauricio Clever Coronia.

1049
00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:59,040
Speaker 1: I don't know, oh, mister Trump's Latin American envoy. He

1050
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 1: did not want to bring in non criminal migrants. He

1051
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:05,720
Speaker 1: could not convince Salvadorans that he was prioritizing their national

1052
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 1: interests if he turned their country into a dumping ground

1053
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 1: for US deporties from other countries, he explained to mister

1054
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:12,280
Speaker 1: Trump's aids.

1055
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:13,840
Speaker 3: But he did agree to take.

1056
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:16,319
Speaker 1: In violent criminals, no matter their nationality, for a fee,

1057
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 1: which would help to subsidize the country's prison system. So

1058
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 1: because the Trump administration shipped off, the vast majority of

1059
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:30,080
Speaker 1: the people they shipped down had zero criminal records. According

1060
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:32,799
Speaker 1: to The New York Times, even Kelly was like, this

1061
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:34,759
Speaker 1: is a problem. This is not what we agreed to.

1062
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:36,839
Speaker 1: Now he of course has gone along with it. It's

1063
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:38,920
Speaker 1: very possible this leak to The New York Times is

1064
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 1: a bit of ass covering for himself, especially as he's

1065
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:44,760
Speaker 1: found all of these Democratic senators and members of Congress

1066
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:47,560
Speaker 1: flying down Tella Salvador saying, hey, this guy has no

1067
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:51,319
Speaker 1: gang affiliation. They shipped him here indefinitely because of some

1068
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 1: mom and dad tattoo or an autism awareness tattoo, or

1069
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 1: in the case of kil Mar Brego Garcia, they admit

1070
00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 1: that they messed up and shouldn't have sent him here,

1071
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 1: like you need to do something. So it's creating domestic

1072
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:04,759
Speaker 1: political problems for Bukelly. So it could have been that

1073
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:06,399
Speaker 1: that leads to this leak to the New York Times

1074
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 1: of like, this is not really what we agreed to.

1075
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 1: And the last thing, Emily I'll say before I get

1076
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:14,239
Speaker 1: your reaction, is in the initial three planeloads that were

1077
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 1: sent and you guys remember this dramatic situation with the

1078
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:19,120
Speaker 1: judge saying you've got to turn those planes around. They

1079
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:21,880
Speaker 1: don't do it, and a third plane actually departs. They

1080
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:24,399
Speaker 1: claim not under Alien Enemies Act, but in any case

1081
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:26,440
Speaker 1: departs even after that order is issued.

1082
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:29,440
Speaker 3: On those planes, there were a number of women.

1083
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:33,800
Speaker 1: This is an all male facility, and so those women,

1084
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:37,319
Speaker 1: but Kelly's we're not taking these women, so they sent

1085
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:41,279
Speaker 1: the women back. In addition, there were also some high

1086
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:45,760
Speaker 1: level MUS thirteen members that were in our criminal justice

1087
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 1: system facing charges and punishment that the Kelly wanted back.

1088
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:52,840
Speaker 1: And Ryan did the first report on this over a

1089
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:56,920
Speaker 1: drop site that the Kelly wanted back because he, as

1090
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:59,880
Speaker 1: part of his crackdown, has also been cutting deals with

1091
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:02,799
Speaker 1: MS thirteen, either for hey, you guys, can you know,

1092
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 1: do your thing over there, but not in this neighborhood

1093
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:07,279
Speaker 1: where the tourists are. Hey, I'll make sure some of

1094
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:09,760
Speaker 1: your people get a little bit better prison conditions, et cetera.

1095
00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:12,439
Speaker 1: So that was another part of the deal. And sorry,

1096
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:14,880
Speaker 1: I keep going on and saying one last thing. No, Also,

1097
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:19,360
Speaker 1: we had talked before about this dude who you know,

1098
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 1: the Trump administration did a big press conference about this

1099
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:24,160
Speaker 1: is the East Coast head of MS thirteen. We are

1100
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:26,560
Speaker 1: going to charge him. He is going to prison. We

1101
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 1: are so proud of ourselves. Now quietly, all of those

1102
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 1: charges have been dropped and he is just being deported

1103
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:37,239
Speaker 1: through regular channels before there can be any scrutiny into

1104
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:39,480
Speaker 1: what the hell happened there. Now it's possible they just

1105
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:41,279
Speaker 1: didn't have the goods on this guy. And they just

1106
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 1: made up some bullshit and he was not the MS

1107
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 1: thirteen like East Coast head. And when it came to

1108
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:46,799
Speaker 1: trying to prove this in court, it was not going

1109
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:49,280
Speaker 1: to work out, so they just quietly tried to save face.

1110
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 1: Or it could be this is one of the dudes

1111
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:53,840
Speaker 1: who was part of this dealing with bo Kelly.

1112
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 4: Well yeah, I mean, think about that for a second.

1113
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 5: This is the invocation of the There's a lot of

1114
00:52:58,239 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 5: juicy stuff in this New York Times story, but the

1115
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:02,560
Speaker 5: invocation of the Alien Enemies Act is predicated on this

1116
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 5: idea that the Venezuelan government is directing Trende Aragua to

1117
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:09,520
Speaker 5: invade the United States, which is a very flimsy premise.

1118
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:10,600
Speaker 3: It's preposterous.

1119
00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:14,560
Speaker 5: It's a very flimsy premise that was intentionally concocted by

1120
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:17,520
Speaker 5: people in the Trump administration to be able to get

1121
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:19,520
Speaker 5: around the regular channels of due process.

1122
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:21,040
Speaker 4: Stephen Miller said.

1123
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 5: That openly that it was part of the plan because

1124
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:27,719
Speaker 5: they know mass deportations with the regular due process. That

1125
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:29,880
Speaker 5: is the clear implication of what Steven Miller has said,

1126
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 5: regular deportations. You can't do at the level of QUOTEO

1127
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:37,959
Speaker 5: mass deportations if you go through those channels without dramatically

1128
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:41,760
Speaker 5: boosting the immigration judge system, which then can.

1129
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:44,080
Speaker 3: Cut and they're cutting the immigration judge system, by the.

1130
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:46,520
Speaker 5: Way, there are problems with that because it can become

1131
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 5: a carrot if you can start hearing cases really quickly.

1132
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:52,239
Speaker 5: It did become in the Biden administration and incentive form

1133
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:55,480
Speaker 5: of people to keep trying. But the Trump administration can

1134
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:58,480
Speaker 5: deal with that pretty easily by remain in Mexico policies.

1135
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:00,640
Speaker 5: If that is their problem with they could deal with

1136
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:04,520
Speaker 5: it in other ways. But the idea that the East

1137
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:08,720
Speaker 5: Coast kingpin of MS thirteen needs to be sent back,

1138
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:11,840
Speaker 5: that they have charges, that they do a big, splashy

1139
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:15,800
Speaker 5: press conference. Pam Bondi did a huge, high profile press

1140
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:19,640
Speaker 5: conference to tout the arrest of this man and the

1141
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:22,840
Speaker 5: charges against this man. I think the charges were dropped

1142
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:24,840
Speaker 5: within a month, it might have even been less than that.

1143
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 4: And they didn't just send him to El Salvador.

1144
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:30,839
Speaker 5: They literally dropped these charges, this big case that they

1145
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:33,680
Speaker 5: were touting against him. And that gets to a quote,

1146
00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:35,320
Speaker 5: which by the way, is again a follow up on

1147
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:37,680
Speaker 5: the drop site reporting, which was way ahead of the story.

1148
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:40,080
Speaker 5: CNN then had a piece that came out earlier this

1149
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 5: week as well. This is from Douglas Ferra in The

1150
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:44,759
Speaker 5: New York Times, an El Salvador expert who between twenty

1151
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:47,000
Speaker 5: eighteen and twenty twenty two collaborated with the Justice Department

1152
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:50,560
Speaker 5: Vulcan Task Force, which targeted MS thirteen. He says, quote,

1153
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:54,080
Speaker 5: what Bucel is desperate for is to get these guys

1154
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:56,040
Speaker 5: back in El Salvador.

1155
00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:57,720
Speaker 4: Before they talk in US court.

1156
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:03,720
Speaker 5: So I'm reading these leaks from State, which also included

1157
00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:07,480
Speaker 5: that big CNN piece earlier this week. It looks like

1158
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:11,359
Speaker 5: some of this is probably coming from Boucalley world, and

1159
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:13,920
Speaker 5: I would take all of the sincerity of that. I

1160
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:15,759
Speaker 5: would take all of that with a grain of salt.

1161
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 5: But what's also interesting is it sounds to make most

1162
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:21,000
Speaker 5: of this is coming from State Department world, that there's

1163
00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:25,279
Speaker 5: ass covering happening in State Department world, saying we were

1164
00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:31,520
Speaker 5: uncomfortable with the answers to bu Kelly's questions about whether

1165
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:32,920
Speaker 5: these were actually.

1166
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:33,840
Speaker 4: MS thirteen members.

1167
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:37,040
Speaker 5: So now the question becomes, and this has actually always

1168
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:40,319
Speaker 5: been the question to some extent, to on what level

1169
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:45,000
Speaker 5: does the Alien Enemies Act allow you to deport people

1170
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:50,839
Speaker 5: if there's tenuous or if there's very thin evidence of

1171
00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 5: their alleged involvement in this invasion. Right, So Steven Miller

1172
00:55:57,120 --> 00:55:59,439
Speaker 5: thinks that you can just get rid of every foreign

1173
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:03,279
Speaker 5: national in that area. But if you your intelligence is

1174
00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 5: telling you that this invocation of the Alien Enemies Act

1175
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:09,120
Speaker 5: eight and of itself is a flimsy is the premise

1176
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:11,640
Speaker 5: to that doesn't work? Does that become a legal problem

1177
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:13,560
Speaker 5: for the administration. And let me just say, Stephen Miller

1178
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:16,360
Speaker 5: isn't sweating that. Stephen Miller like this. He does not

1179
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:19,600
Speaker 5: see this as a significant blow to his prom to

1180
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:23,239
Speaker 5: his process, that there are constitutional questions being raised, or

1181
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:26,160
Speaker 5: to his project, I should say, because their plan was

1182
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:28,720
Speaker 5: to throw everything at the wall and see what would stick,

1183
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:31,480
Speaker 5: knowing that some of it would not. Because they want

1184
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:34,279
Speaker 5: to do mass deportations. And if you want to do

1185
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:37,240
Speaker 5: mass deportations, they're correct, that is going to be very difficult,

1186
00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 5: and if the American people voted for that, there's going

1187
00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:41,600
Speaker 5: to be a lot standing in the way of your

1188
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:42,279
Speaker 5: effort to.

1189
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:43,120
Speaker 4: Achieve that end.

1190
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:46,640
Speaker 5: But he's he knows that some of the stuff is

1191
00:56:46,680 --> 00:56:48,880
Speaker 5: going to get hung up in the courts, and his

1192
00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:52,200
Speaker 5: allies and the administration know that that's the point of

1193
00:56:52,239 --> 00:56:56,400
Speaker 5: doing this strategy where you're just like there's actually some

1194
00:56:56,480 --> 00:56:59,440
Speaker 5: quotes in this piece about how he was like don't worry.

1195
00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:01,560
Speaker 3: Said, don't worry about the law something like that.

1196
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:04,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, like you have to go fast.

1197
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:06,759
Speaker 5: And so they're worried that they're not going to be

1198
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 5: able to do quote mass deportations. But what they're not

1199
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:13,560
Speaker 5: worried about is, you know, being accused of like flouting

1200
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 5: the constitution. They think that the constitution isn't set up

1201
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:21,440
Speaker 5: to deal with this problem of mass immigration under Biden.

1202
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:24,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, yeah, they just they don't care about

1203
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:27,240
Speaker 1: the constitution, they don't care about the legality, they don't

1204
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:29,840
Speaker 1: care about due process. They don't care if they mistakenly

1205
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:33,760
Speaker 1: send someone there, you know, and know that it's a mistake,

1206
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:35,480
Speaker 1: they'll just say, like he deserves to be there.

1207
00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:35,960
Speaker 3: I don't care.

1208
00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:39,480
Speaker 1: And part of the strategy is this is something we

1209
00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:42,480
Speaker 1: talked about from the beginning of this administration too, is

1210
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:45,920
Speaker 1: the more horrific and the more cruel the images and

1211
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 1: the stories that come out, the more they're hoping that

1212
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:52,720
Speaker 1: people will quote unquote self support, because there isn't there now.

1213
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:55,400
Speaker 1: The Republican budget has a lot more resources for ice

1214
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:58,480
Speaker 1: and a lot more resources for the private prison contract

1215
00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:02,280
Speaker 1: or to set up additional detention centers, etc. But you know,

1216
00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:06,680
Speaker 1: there are not the resources to have this, you know,

1217
00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:09,920
Speaker 1: the mass deportation skill that a Steven Miller would love

1218
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:12,480
Speaker 1: to see. And so I know it's this cliche, the

1219
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:14,960
Speaker 1: cruelty is the point, but that they will actually the

1220
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:18,400
Speaker 1: best true and that it's true, And so that's how

1221
00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:22,080
Speaker 1: he's looking. I mean, Steven Miller is he is truly

1222
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:23,800
Speaker 1: an ideological racist.

1223
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:25,800
Speaker 4: Like he has.

1224
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:28,200
Speaker 1: A political program and I don't think he cares whether

1225
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:30,600
Speaker 1: it's popular or not. He has a thing he wants

1226
00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:32,480
Speaker 1: to do and he does not care what's going to

1227
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:34,480
Speaker 1: stand in his way of doing that. And I think

1228
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:38,880
Speaker 1: Trump has outsourced his entire immigration policy to Steven Miller.

1229
00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:40,200
Speaker 3: You guys talked about him.

1230
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:45,840
Speaker 1: Actually believing MS thirteen was literally tattooed on kilmar Garcia's

1231
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:49,400
Speaker 1: knuckles when it was the most obvious photoshop in history.

1232
00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:51,800
Speaker 1: I think Steven Miller just told him that this is

1233
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:53,360
Speaker 1: real and he just believes it.

1234
00:58:53,640 --> 00:58:53,760
Speaker 4: You know.

1235
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:56,080
Speaker 1: I think Steven Miller told him that the Supreme Court

1236
00:58:56,080 --> 00:58:58,560
Speaker 1: decision went nine oh their way, even though that is

1237
00:58:58,600 --> 00:59:01,640
Speaker 1: the polar opposite of what happened, and he just believes it.

1238
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:03,000
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what he seemed to say in the

1239
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:06,280
Speaker 1: Oval Office. So this has been completely outsourced to Stephen Miller.

1240
00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:08,680
Speaker 1: But you know, it did expose that there's a little

1241
00:59:08,720 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 1: bit of a potential pressure point that Chris van Holland

1242
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:15,640
Speaker 1: and you know the other Democrats who flew down to

1243
00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:18,640
Speaker 1: El Salvador that they were kind of pushing on, which

1244
00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:21,800
Speaker 1: is that l Salvador. But Kelly has his own domestic

1245
00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:24,520
Speaker 1: political situation. Yes, he's very popular there, but that can

1246
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:27,600
Speaker 1: always change, yep. So he has his own domestic political

1247
00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:29,320
Speaker 1: situation to think about. And you also have to think

1248
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:31,160
Speaker 1: about like Republic, it's not going to be President Trump

1249
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:34,440
Speaker 1: forever yep. And so if you have made your country

1250
00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:38,680
Speaker 1: enemy number one of Democrats and they're set to take

1251
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:42,000
Speaker 1: power to make control Congress, control Congress in you know,

1252
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:45,520
Speaker 1: less than two years, which is some investigatory powers, very possible, Yes,

1253
00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:48,120
Speaker 1: that's right, and very possible that they take back the

1254
00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:51,080
Speaker 1: White House in twenty twenty eight, you start to get

1255
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:54,640
Speaker 1: a little nervous about where all of this is is going.

1256
00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:58,480
Speaker 1: And I do think we are ultimately headed to the alien.

1257
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:01,600
Speaker 1: This invocation of the Alien an Enemy's Act being deemed

1258
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:05,440
Speaker 1: like unsupportable, like, you know, because on so many levels,

1259
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:07,400
Speaker 1: and it should be. It's not an invasion, We're not

1260
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:11,000
Speaker 1: at war. Venezuela is not working with Trando Arragula the

1261
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:13,200
Speaker 1: way that it's been implementing. These judges are human beings

1262
01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:14,560
Speaker 1: are going to look at this and be like, this

1263
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:17,440
Speaker 1: is outrageous what the administration is doing. And so I

1264
01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:20,200
Speaker 1: think it is likely that their invocation is going to

1265
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:23,640
Speaker 1: get struck down. They're already being blocked in a number

1266
01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:27,280
Speaker 1: of jurisdictions across the country from continuing these deportations under

1267
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:30,320
Speaker 1: this provision. But you know, and that comes back to

1268
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:32,560
Speaker 1: Marco Rivio saying, ah, well, we're looking at other countries

1269
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:33,600
Speaker 1: where we can do the same thing.

1270
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:35,840
Speaker 5: Glenn has made this point that well, and that's the

1271
01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:38,640
Speaker 5: Kilmra Abrigo Garcia case. They actually could have if they

1272
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:40,920
Speaker 5: had gotten an agreement from Mexico, for example, they could

1273
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:43,520
Speaker 5: have deported him at any moment. Basically, they just couldn't

1274
01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:46,680
Speaker 5: deport him to Alsalvador. Based on all this, Miller argues

1275
01:00:46,680 --> 01:00:49,120
Speaker 5: that because of the Alien Enemies Act, they still could,

1276
01:00:49,400 --> 01:00:53,560
Speaker 5: but that's not clear cut, and even conservative attorneys like

1277
01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:55,520
Speaker 5: and Annie McCarthy and Walen have come.

1278
01:00:55,640 --> 01:00:59,200
Speaker 1: The administration itself argued in court that it was a mistake.

1279
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:01,240
Speaker 4: And it parts then they fired that guy from the

1280
01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:02,520
Speaker 4: DJ like they but I.

1281
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:06,280
Speaker 3: Mean, there were multiple court filings and the court is

1282
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:07,000
Speaker 3: that it was a mistake.

1283
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:10,439
Speaker 5: Completely agree Stephen Miller would but Stephen Miller comes down

1284
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:12,360
Speaker 5: and says, like we could do what we want, like

1285
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:14,800
Speaker 5: get out of here DJ, like even the Trump DOJ

1286
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:16,680
Speaker 5: Like you guys, you know, why would you ever admit

1287
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:19,920
Speaker 5: an error. You're harming the project of mass deportation by

1288
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:21,840
Speaker 5: admitting we can't do this, because this is what we

1289
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:22,439
Speaker 5: have to do.

1290
01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:23,760
Speaker 4: We have to be.

1291
01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:26,280
Speaker 5: Pushing these lines in these boundaries in order to end

1292
01:01:26,360 --> 01:01:30,600
Speaker 5: up with mass deportation. And honestly, like if if we

1293
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:33,120
Speaker 5: take this in a like seriously, because there is a

1294
01:01:33,120 --> 01:01:36,480
Speaker 5: trunk of the American people that looks at the mass

1295
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:38,720
Speaker 5: immigration during the Biden administration and.

1296
01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:40,960
Speaker 4: Talking to some of.

1297
01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:45,120
Speaker 5: These people, it's so the lives that they live maybe

1298
01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:47,080
Speaker 5: better than what they had in Venezuela.

1299
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:49,800
Speaker 4: I mean, one of these migrants was protesting Maduro.

1300
01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:53,760
Speaker 5: And that's why Republicans have often supported the silent policies

1301
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:57,560
Speaker 5: that we have just protesting Maduro. They end up having

1302
01:01:57,600 --> 01:02:01,800
Speaker 5: to live these precarious existences in the United States hiding.

1303
01:02:02,600 --> 01:02:04,560
Speaker 5: You know, a Brego Garcia was pulled over for driving

1304
01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:06,280
Speaker 5: radically with an expired license.

1305
01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:07,800
Speaker 4: I mean, a reason that you try.

1306
01:02:07,680 --> 01:02:09,959
Speaker 5: To avoid going to the government in some of those

1307
01:02:10,120 --> 01:02:12,160
Speaker 5: like we're doing licenses or whatever, is because you're.

1308
01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:13,880
Speaker 4: In fear of being deported.

1309
01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:17,240
Speaker 5: It's not a great existence, even if it's better than

1310
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:20,920
Speaker 5: Venezuela or El Salvador. And our process right now sucks.

1311
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:23,800
Speaker 5: It keeps people in these situations for like ten plus years.

1312
01:02:23,840 --> 01:02:26,800
Speaker 5: He'd come into this country, what twenty twelve at Brego Garcia.

1313
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:28,440
Speaker 5: I think that's and it had just sort of been

1314
01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:32,200
Speaker 5: living in the shadows. And it's not good for anybody.

1315
01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:34,720
Speaker 5: And there needs to be a solution to this. And

1316
01:02:34,760 --> 01:02:38,680
Speaker 5: the solution is always going to involve horrible mistakes and

1317
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:42,840
Speaker 5: heart wrenching, heart wrenching examples of people who end up

1318
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:46,080
Speaker 5: getting deported who had lives here. The administration needs to

1319
01:02:46,120 --> 01:02:50,320
Speaker 5: deal with that. They need to realize that you're not

1320
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:54,440
Speaker 5: going to be able to just flout the Constitution use

1321
01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:56,880
Speaker 5: things like Alien Enemies Act. All that's going to end

1322
01:02:56,920 --> 01:03:01,520
Speaker 5: up doing is creating less public support for what you're

1323
01:03:01,560 --> 01:03:04,120
Speaker 5: doing in the first place, and it's going to take

1324
01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:06,400
Speaker 5: time away from what you could be doing, which is

1325
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:09,720
Speaker 5: building up a system to actually deal with the literal

1326
01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:12,880
Speaker 5: millions of people who are here living these precarious existences,

1327
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:15,880
Speaker 5: which isn't a good situation for anybody. But I don't

1328
01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:20,680
Speaker 5: see basically any any movement in that direction. Glenn has

1329
01:03:20,680 --> 01:03:23,520
Speaker 5: made this point that actually it's not that hard to

1330
01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:25,880
Speaker 5: go through the court system if you focus on it,

1331
01:03:25,880 --> 01:03:28,840
Speaker 5: it's not that hard to bring him back to try him.

1332
01:03:29,040 --> 01:03:31,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, they were already the State Department was coming

1333
01:03:31,040 --> 01:03:32,880
Speaker 1: up with plans bringing back because this is not the

1334
01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:34,840
Speaker 1: first time that someone has been mistakenly deported.

1335
01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:36,720
Speaker 3: Yes, and you just go to deal with it. This

1336
01:03:36,800 --> 01:03:37,320
Speaker 3: is terrible.

1337
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:39,280
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, We're going to get you back, and like

1338
01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:42,480
Speaker 1: follow the They were already working on those plans, and

1339
01:03:42,520 --> 01:03:44,840
Speaker 1: then you know, whoever in the Trump administration came over

1340
01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:47,480
Speaker 1: the top and we're like, no, yeah, we made a mistake.

1341
01:03:47,560 --> 01:03:50,000
Speaker 1: We don't care. He's going to stay. And again, this

1342
01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:54,400
Speaker 1: is not just deportation, just deportation. This is you are

1343
01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:57,160
Speaker 1: locked in a prison for life. Yep, your wife, your family,

1344
01:03:57,320 --> 01:04:00,280
Speaker 1: your lawyers, like you have no access to anyone, accept

1345
01:04:00,320 --> 01:04:03,400
Speaker 1: a brief meeting with Chris van Hollen. You are cut

1346
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:08,920
Speaker 1: off from the entire world, potentially forever, sentenced to life

1347
01:04:09,080 --> 01:04:13,120
Speaker 1: in prison in a foreign prison. Not kill maraa Brego

1348
01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:15,720
Speaker 1: Garcia has been moved to a different facility. But for

1349
01:04:15,720 --> 01:04:17,840
Speaker 1: the rest of these guys in Seacott, like, this place

1350
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:21,320
Speaker 1: is known for torture and human rights abuse.

1351
01:04:21,120 --> 01:04:23,320
Speaker 5: And there's there are rules against that that we abide

1352
01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:24,360
Speaker 5: by us.

1353
01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:25,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, sure, you your rendition.

1354
01:04:25,640 --> 01:04:26,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's exactly right.

1355
01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:29,800
Speaker 1: You cannot ship someone off and then be like, oh, well,

1356
01:04:29,880 --> 01:04:32,320
Speaker 1: you know, the Egyptian government or whoever, they're going to

1357
01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:34,080
Speaker 1: do what they're going to do, and it's not our fault. Like,

1358
01:04:34,120 --> 01:04:36,680
Speaker 1: if you know the conditions that the people are being

1359
01:04:36,720 --> 01:04:40,240
Speaker 1: sent to, then you are still responsible for those conditions.

1360
01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:44,120
Speaker 1: So in any case, you're absolutely right in the way

1361
01:04:44,240 --> 01:04:45,800
Speaker 1: that I mean, if you look at the way public

1362
01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:48,400
Speaker 1: opinion is dramatically shifted already with regard to how they

1363
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:51,320
Speaker 1: feel about immigration, certainly how they feel about Trump's handling

1364
01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:53,520
Speaker 1: of immigration, how they feel about kill mar and Brego

1365
01:04:53,600 --> 01:04:56,320
Speaker 1: Garcia and all of this. It has been a dramatic,

1366
01:04:56,440 --> 01:04:58,479
Speaker 1: dramatic flip, and it's what we saw in the first

1367
01:04:58,640 --> 01:05:00,920
Speaker 1: term as well, where the public had never been more

1368
01:05:00,920 --> 01:05:04,520
Speaker 1: pro immigrant than they were during Trump's first term in office.

1369
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:07,080
Speaker 5: And then that swung back wildly during the Biden administration,

1370
01:05:07,160 --> 01:05:09,800
Speaker 5: which is why I think Steven Miller like, how often

1371
01:05:09,840 --> 01:05:10,920
Speaker 5: do we hear them claiming.

1372
01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:14,320
Speaker 4: A mandate, a mandate, a mandate. Well, they're misinterpreting. First

1373
01:05:14,320 --> 01:05:14,560
Speaker 4: of all.

1374
01:05:14,600 --> 01:05:16,840
Speaker 5: I mean, the question whether if you win, you know,

1375
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:18,840
Speaker 5: forty nine percent of the vote, you have a mandate

1376
01:05:18,920 --> 01:05:23,440
Speaker 5: is rightly question. But they they're misinterpreting that mandate as

1377
01:05:23,600 --> 01:05:25,440
Speaker 5: something that it isn't. And I don't even know if

1378
01:05:25,440 --> 01:05:28,040
Speaker 5: it's an accidental misinterpretation. I think it's probably a wilful

1379
01:05:28,040 --> 01:05:30,800
Speaker 5: misinterpretation because Steve Miller knows that this is a very

1380
01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:33,520
Speaker 5: slim window and again, if you're doing the math as him,

1381
01:05:33,560 --> 01:05:36,040
Speaker 5: that is correct, like, this is a very slim window

1382
01:05:36,240 --> 01:05:39,560
Speaker 5: in order to do master deportations because House Democrats are

1383
01:05:39,560 --> 01:05:42,000
Speaker 5: going to take back over, public supporter is going to shift,

1384
01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:45,120
Speaker 5: so they're trying really hard to just put their foot

1385
01:05:45,160 --> 01:05:46,280
Speaker 5: on the accelerator, you know.

1386
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:48,800
Speaker 1: To go back to Glenn's point, like it's yeah, Democrats

1387
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:52,680
Speaker 1: pass the freaking Lincoln Riley Act with Republicans. If you

1388
01:05:52,920 --> 01:05:56,240
Speaker 1: wanted to expedide the system, hire more immigration judges, and

1389
01:05:56,360 --> 01:06:00,560
Speaker 1: have this aggressive approach. I don't support it, but they

1390
01:06:00,560 --> 01:06:02,800
Speaker 1: could have done it. Democrats were willing to vote for

1391
01:06:02,920 --> 01:06:05,920
Speaker 1: basically whatever on immigration at the beginning of this term.

1392
01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:09,720
Speaker 1: You you know, have your budgeting process and you're willing

1393
01:06:09,720 --> 01:06:11,400
Speaker 1: to do all move all sorts of moneys around with

1394
01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:15,440
Speaker 1: doge Like. If you wanted to do this in a

1395
01:06:16,080 --> 01:06:19,960
Speaker 1: in some sort of even approaching lawful way, that path

1396
01:06:20,080 --> 01:06:24,600
Speaker 1: was available, but that would not have entailed the level

1397
01:06:24,640 --> 01:06:28,200
Speaker 1: of horror that Stephen Miller wants this process to entail

1398
01:06:28,520 --> 01:06:31,440
Speaker 1: so that they can trigger the you know self deportations

1399
01:06:31,880 --> 01:06:35,040
Speaker 1: that they see as being critical to this. So, you know,

1400
01:06:35,080 --> 01:06:37,680
Speaker 1: the the Guantanamo Bay that was the same the same

1401
01:06:37,720 --> 01:06:41,680
Speaker 1: reason that they were sending immigrants also to Guantanamo Bay,

1402
01:06:42,120 --> 01:06:44,560
Speaker 1: and I think are continuing to do so, even though

1403
01:06:44,560 --> 01:06:46,640
Speaker 1: there had been some reports that a number of those

1404
01:06:46,640 --> 01:06:50,800
Speaker 1: immigrants have been removed using military planes. This is this

1405
01:06:50,840 --> 01:06:54,320
Speaker 1: is way more expensive than the private ice flights that

1406
01:06:54,360 --> 01:06:55,360
Speaker 1: they normally use.

1407
01:06:55,760 --> 01:06:57,640
Speaker 3: But again it's to generate.

1408
01:06:57,280 --> 01:07:01,760
Speaker 1: This you know, this spectacle, the ASMR like deportation likes

1409
01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:04,960
Speaker 1: discussed is like incredibly disturbing to be videos that they

1410
01:07:05,040 --> 01:07:08,240
Speaker 1: put out Christino, I'm going down to Seacott. It's all

1411
01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:12,440
Speaker 1: about a spectacle of horror. And you know, so he

1412
01:07:12,440 --> 01:07:15,400
Speaker 1: he has no interest in going through like any sort

1413
01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:19,360
Speaker 1: of approaching lawful process to effectuate this outcome because it

1414
01:07:19,400 --> 01:07:23,320
Speaker 1: wouldn't achieve his aims ultimately, and so that's why he's

1415
01:07:23,520 --> 01:07:26,680
Speaker 1: you know, pursued very specifically him has pursued this this

1416
01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:30,240
Speaker 1: particular path. I want to get to some really good

1417
01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:33,720
Speaker 1: news in the fight against the crackdown on pro Palestine

1418
01:07:34,120 --> 01:07:38,160
Speaker 1: students who have been arrested for things like writing abeds

1419
01:07:38,360 --> 01:07:42,280
Speaker 1: or you know, for in the case of Machmun Khalil,

1420
01:07:42,360 --> 01:07:46,680
Speaker 1: for being a negotiating a negotiator on the Columbia campus protests.

1421
01:07:46,920 --> 01:07:49,080
Speaker 1: One of the people who had really attracted a lot

1422
01:07:49,160 --> 01:07:54,040
Speaker 1: of attention is Mosen Madali. He has now been actually

1423
01:07:54,200 --> 01:07:59,760
Speaker 1: released from prison from detention while his case was adjudicate.

1424
01:07:59,800 --> 01:08:03,000
Speaker 1: Let's take let's take a look at him walking out,

1425
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:06,240
Speaker 1: because this is quite extraordinary. You can see him walking

1426
01:08:06,320 --> 01:08:11,040
Speaker 1: out here to cheers. I believe this was in Vermont

1427
01:08:11,320 --> 01:08:16,960
Speaker 1: where this was all unfolding, and he also spoke and

1428
01:08:17,240 --> 01:08:21,559
Speaker 1: his message to this cheering crowd. Here you'd see lots

1429
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:27,639
Speaker 1: of Palestine flags, free Muslim Madowi now calling for due process,

1430
01:08:27,640 --> 01:08:31,800
Speaker 1: et cetera. His message coming out was, I am not

1431
01:08:32,000 --> 01:08:33,679
Speaker 1: afraid of Donald Trump.

1432
01:08:33,760 --> 01:08:35,160
Speaker 3: Let's go ahead and take a listen to that.

1433
01:08:35,680 --> 01:08:36,720
Speaker 13: What did they do to me?

1434
01:08:37,560 --> 01:08:42,040
Speaker 14: They arrested me. What's the reason? Because I raised my

1435
01:08:42,200 --> 01:08:46,160
Speaker 14: voice and they said no to war, yes to peace.

1436
01:08:48,320 --> 01:08:53,479
Speaker 14: Because I said enough is enough to President Trump and

1437
01:08:53,520 --> 01:08:56,439
Speaker 14: his cabinet, I am not afraid of you.

1438
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:10,320
Speaker 1: The judge, in making this decision also made some extraordinary

1439
01:09:10,320 --> 01:09:13,839
Speaker 1: statements which would have huge implications not just for Madowi,

1440
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:16,760
Speaker 1: but also for many of the other students who've been

1441
01:09:16,840 --> 01:09:20,600
Speaker 1: arrested and detained and are being threatened with deportation for

1442
01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:23,639
Speaker 1: their advocacy for Palestine. Let's go and put this up

1443
01:09:23,680 --> 01:09:26,840
Speaker 1: on the screen. Jeffrey Crawford, the judge and Wednesday's ruling,

1444
01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:29,240
Speaker 1: wrote that those who know Madowie describe him as a

1445
01:09:29,240 --> 01:09:33,320
Speaker 1: peaceful figure who seeks consensus in a highly charged political environment.

1446
01:09:33,680 --> 01:09:36,640
Speaker 1: But Crawford added, even if he were a firebrand, his

1447
01:09:36,720 --> 01:09:39,360
Speaker 1: conduct is protected by the First Amendment. The court is

1448
01:09:39,360 --> 01:09:42,719
Speaker 1: aware he has offended his political opponents apparently given rise

1449
01:09:42,760 --> 01:09:44,760
Speaker 1: to concerns the State Department, he has an obstacle to

1450
01:09:44,800 --> 01:09:45,799
Speaker 1: American foreign policy.

1451
01:09:45,920 --> 01:09:47,400
Speaker 3: Just think about how preposterous that is.

1452
01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:50,519
Speaker 1: Such conduct is insufficient to support a finding that he

1453
01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:53,120
Speaker 1: is in any way a danger. As we use that

1454
01:09:53,280 --> 01:09:57,120
Speaker 1: term in the context of detention and release. Legal residents

1455
01:09:57,280 --> 01:10:00,479
Speaker 1: not charged with crimes from misconduct are being arrested, threatened

1456
01:10:00,479 --> 01:10:03,400
Speaker 1: with deportation for stating their views on the political issues

1457
01:10:03,439 --> 01:10:06,160
Speaker 1: of the day, Crawford said, citing the Red Scare and

1458
01:10:06,280 --> 01:10:08,360
Speaker 1: McCarthy era a targeting of people.

1459
01:10:08,080 --> 01:10:09,200
Speaker 3: For their political views.

1460
01:10:09,479 --> 01:10:12,960
Speaker 1: The wheel of history has come around again. But as before,

1461
01:10:13,160 --> 01:10:17,320
Speaker 1: these times of excess will pass. So, you know, we'll

1462
01:10:17,320 --> 01:10:20,240
Speaker 1: see if this ruling stands. We'll see if there are

1463
01:10:20,360 --> 01:10:24,479
Speaker 1: other judges who make similar decisions. But you know the

1464
01:10:24,479 --> 01:10:27,240
Speaker 1: fact that Madowi at least was able to get this win,

1465
01:10:27,320 --> 01:10:30,240
Speaker 1: and you have one judge, federal judge saying listen, you

1466
01:10:30,280 --> 01:10:32,559
Speaker 1: can't just deport someone because you don't like their opinion

1467
01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:35,599
Speaker 1: on a political issue, is a very significant development here.

1468
01:10:35,920 --> 01:10:40,200
Speaker 5: The justification for this deportation order via the State Department

1469
01:10:40,400 --> 01:10:44,640
Speaker 5: is very problematic, similar to the Mahmud Khalil situation in

1470
01:10:44,680 --> 01:10:48,799
Speaker 5: that they cite this is a Rubio memo anti Semitism basically,

1471
01:10:48,800 --> 01:10:51,120
Speaker 5: and they say this is from the it's the Immigration

1472
01:10:51,160 --> 01:10:53,639
Speaker 5: and Nationality Act. I think it's in nineteen fifty two,

1473
01:10:53,680 --> 01:10:56,080
Speaker 5: is what Rubio has been citing. And that's what's we

1474
01:10:56,080 --> 01:10:58,120
Speaker 5: were talking about this with Stephen Miller earlier and the

1475
01:10:58,160 --> 01:11:01,200
Speaker 5: Alien Enemies Act. I think they're right now testing the

1476
01:11:01,200 --> 01:11:04,640
Speaker 5: fundamental constitutionality of the State Department and the Secretary of

1477
01:11:04,680 --> 01:11:08,559
Speaker 5: State being able to revoke visas on the idea that

1478
01:11:08,600 --> 01:11:11,519
Speaker 5: somebody is a threat to the United States national security.

1479
01:11:11,560 --> 01:11:13,960
Speaker 5: And then you take that second layer in this case

1480
01:11:14,240 --> 01:11:17,559
Speaker 5: of saying that somebody's alleged anti semitism is a threat

1481
01:11:17,600 --> 01:11:23,240
Speaker 5: to national security is a very like they're testing the

1482
01:11:23,240 --> 01:11:25,960
Speaker 5: constitutionality of that, and I think rightfully so. Did you

1483
01:11:26,000 --> 01:11:28,960
Speaker 5: see the government I'm reading from NBC News right now.

1484
01:11:29,120 --> 01:11:31,760
Speaker 5: They included two exhibits in their filing which have been

1485
01:11:31,800 --> 01:11:34,040
Speaker 5: filed under Seal. One of the exhibits, this has been

1486
01:11:34,200 --> 01:11:36,160
Speaker 5: going sort of viral on x and I don't know

1487
01:11:36,160 --> 01:11:37,960
Speaker 5: what to think of it, which NBC News has reviewed,

1488
01:11:38,040 --> 01:11:40,839
Speaker 5: is a twenty fifteen report from the Windsor Police Department

1489
01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:43,840
Speaker 5: in Vermont where a gun shop owner told officers that

1490
01:11:43,920 --> 01:11:47,080
Speaker 5: Madowi supposedly told the owner that he used to build

1491
01:11:47,160 --> 01:11:51,280
Speaker 5: machine guns to quote, kill Jews while he was in Palestine.

1492
01:11:51,400 --> 01:11:54,680
Speaker 5: In his declaration, Madawi saidely that he recalled visiting a

1493
01:11:54,680 --> 01:11:57,000
Speaker 5: gun shop in Windsor, Vermont, but that he is quote

1494
01:11:57,040 --> 01:11:59,800
Speaker 5: absolutely certain that I never expressed the words the report

1495
01:12:00,000 --> 01:12:02,599
Speaker 5: also attributes to me in that exchange or ever, I'm

1496
01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:04,800
Speaker 5: a peaceful person and would never express wanting to harm

1497
01:12:04,880 --> 01:12:07,920
Speaker 5: or kill anyone. I'm heartbroken to have such appalling words,

1498
01:12:07,920 --> 01:12:10,040
Speaker 5: which Shannon complete contrasts to my philosophy of life and

1499
01:12:10,080 --> 01:12:12,080
Speaker 5: spiritual beliefs misattributed to me.

1500
01:12:12,960 --> 01:12:14,800
Speaker 4: It's such a strange.

1501
01:12:15,840 --> 01:12:19,439
Speaker 5: Another situation where the administration you would think would have

1502
01:12:19,560 --> 01:12:23,400
Speaker 5: cited that immediately if they would know about it.

1503
01:12:23,560 --> 01:12:23,800
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1504
01:12:23,840 --> 01:12:27,280
Speaker 5: That so, I imagine there's more to come from this gunshop

1505
01:12:27,320 --> 01:12:32,480
Speaker 5: owner as this case goes on, but a very strange

1506
01:12:33,000 --> 01:12:35,200
Speaker 5: I just feel like that's a very strange part of

1507
01:12:35,200 --> 01:12:38,040
Speaker 5: the story or subplot in the story, because I guess

1508
01:12:38,040 --> 01:12:42,120
Speaker 5: if this is about anti Semitism to the Ruby Amendment,

1509
01:12:42,160 --> 01:12:44,200
Speaker 5: the point in the Rubio memo, if he said that

1510
01:12:44,320 --> 01:12:48,720
Speaker 5: he killed Jews while he was in Palestine, then I

1511
01:12:48,840 --> 01:12:51,920
Speaker 5: suppose you can you can prove that he's anti Semitic,

1512
01:12:51,960 --> 01:12:54,560
Speaker 5: but even then you have to prove the anti semitism

1513
01:12:54,720 --> 01:12:57,240
Speaker 5: is a harm to US foreign policy. And again like

1514
01:12:57,280 --> 01:13:01,479
Speaker 5: this is that would augment that argument. But quite an

1515
01:13:01,479 --> 01:13:04,320
Speaker 5: interesting situation where you have, what is he's Buddhist?

1516
01:13:04,560 --> 01:13:06,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think so, it's very weird.

1517
01:13:06,200 --> 01:13:07,920
Speaker 1: Well, and if you listen to him on sixty minutes,

1518
01:13:07,960 --> 01:13:11,760
Speaker 1: like he's very clear about I see the you know,

1519
01:13:12,439 --> 01:13:16,240
Speaker 1: justice for Israelis and Palestinians and freedom for them as

1520
01:13:16,320 --> 01:13:18,880
Speaker 1: being linked and I abhor anti Semitism, like he's been

1521
01:13:18,960 --> 01:13:19,880
Speaker 1: very consistent on that.

1522
01:13:20,120 --> 01:13:21,400
Speaker 3: I mean, listen, I have no idea.

1523
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:24,120
Speaker 1: I haven't seen or heard any thing about this, like

1524
01:13:24,160 --> 01:13:28,280
Speaker 1: gunshop situation. I will say that, Look, even if you

1525
01:13:28,479 --> 01:13:32,240
Speaker 1: say something that is horrible like that, you still shouldn't

1526
01:13:32,240 --> 01:13:33,920
Speaker 1: be able to deport someone just for their speech. I

1527
01:13:33,920 --> 01:13:36,479
Speaker 1: mean that's basically the judge's point is, like, there's no

1528
01:13:36,560 --> 01:13:39,360
Speaker 1: evidence that he is a firebrand. All the evidence is

1529
01:13:39,360 --> 01:13:42,640
Speaker 1: that he's you know, this very like peace loving, like

1530
01:13:42,720 --> 01:13:47,040
Speaker 1: consensus building type. But even if he was, you still

1531
01:13:47,040 --> 01:13:49,720
Speaker 1: can't just deport someone because you don't like what they

1532
01:13:49,720 --> 01:13:54,560
Speaker 1: have to say. Well, you don't like what you imagine

1533
01:13:54,760 --> 01:13:57,320
Speaker 1: is in their heart with regard to this group of

1534
01:13:57,360 --> 01:13:59,200
Speaker 1: people or that group of people.

1535
01:13:59,479 --> 01:14:02,000
Speaker 4: It makes there is their justification.

1536
01:14:02,120 --> 01:14:06,000
Speaker 5: Here is what is the like they don't have whether

1537
01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:10,000
Speaker 5: that justification, i should say, is legitimate. It remains the question.

1538
01:14:10,120 --> 01:14:12,639
Speaker 5: Even if he said that, like that their justification from

1539
01:14:12,680 --> 01:14:15,720
Speaker 5: reporting him, like they would have to find again, like

1540
01:14:16,080 --> 01:14:19,799
Speaker 5: you can try people, you can actually go through another process.

1541
01:14:19,880 --> 01:14:22,080
Speaker 5: But the point is just doing as many things as

1542
01:14:22,120 --> 01:14:24,840
Speaker 5: quickly as possible in order to sort of flood the

1543
01:14:24,920 --> 01:14:27,760
Speaker 5: zone and from there, yeah.

1544
01:14:27,360 --> 01:14:30,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, and to use this issue as a cudgel, you know,

1545
01:14:31,120 --> 01:14:35,000
Speaker 1: both in their in their war against lefties generally in

1546
01:14:35,040 --> 01:14:38,080
Speaker 1: their war against universities, like this is the issue that

1547
01:14:38,400 --> 01:14:40,800
Speaker 1: they don't care about anti Semitism. They're using this issue

1548
01:14:40,840 --> 01:14:42,759
Speaker 1: as a cudgel to effectuate other Well.

1549
01:14:42,600 --> 01:14:45,639
Speaker 5: I think, I mean, I think there's a part of

1550
01:14:45,800 --> 01:14:51,880
Speaker 5: the sort of conservative movement that has very much been

1551
01:14:52,920 --> 01:14:57,320
Speaker 5: conditioned that this is the most like, this is the.

1552
01:14:57,320 --> 01:14:59,599
Speaker 4: Type of the spear on campus issues.

1553
01:14:59,640 --> 01:15:02,440
Speaker 5: So if you get rid of the alleged anti Semites,

1554
01:15:02,560 --> 01:15:05,240
Speaker 5: then you you've just removed the tip of the spear.

1555
01:15:05,280 --> 01:15:08,120
Speaker 5: And it's I think some people genuinely do believe in this,

1556
01:15:08,200 --> 01:15:10,120
Speaker 5: I think a lot of people don't and it's almost

1557
01:15:10,120 --> 01:15:10,960
Speaker 5: like half and half.

1558
01:15:11,160 --> 01:15:13,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm referring specifically to Donald Trump.

1559
01:15:13,640 --> 01:15:14,439
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

1560
01:15:14,479 --> 01:15:16,360
Speaker 3: Donald Trump does not give a shit about anti summing.

1561
01:15:16,360 --> 01:15:17,960
Speaker 5: I don't think he's super concerned about this, but he

1562
01:15:18,040 --> 01:15:20,760
Speaker 5: knows that again, like Miriam Madelson is and I'm sure

1563
01:15:20,800 --> 01:15:22,000
Speaker 5: Marco Rubio probably is.

1564
01:15:22,280 --> 01:15:24,240
Speaker 4: So it's that's how it's.

1565
01:15:24,400 --> 01:15:26,719
Speaker 5: But again, like I think we've talked about this recently,

1566
01:15:26,760 --> 01:15:29,640
Speaker 5: it's turning kind of the online. Some of the online

1567
01:15:30,160 --> 01:15:33,800
Speaker 5: online write people off and some of them it's like, okay,

1568
01:15:33,880 --> 01:15:36,120
Speaker 5: so you've turned off Candace Owens, but I guess she

1569
01:15:36,160 --> 01:15:36,960
Speaker 5: has a big audience.

1570
01:15:37,160 --> 01:15:39,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, we'll get to the Alex Jones, Nick Fuenttez, Yes,

1571
01:15:39,880 --> 01:15:40,200
Speaker 1: that's right.

1572
01:15:40,200 --> 01:15:41,400
Speaker 4: We have a good coming out.

1573
01:15:41,240 --> 01:15:42,360
Speaker 3: For our last block.

1574
01:15:42,400 --> 01:15:44,040
Speaker 1: All right, let's go and get to some of these

1575
01:15:44,360 --> 01:15:47,560
Speaker 1: twenty twenty eight Democratic contenders in the way they're positioning themselves.

1576
01:15:49,880 --> 01:15:51,559
Speaker 1: We have a bunch of Democrats have been making some

1577
01:15:51,560 --> 01:15:54,080
Speaker 1: potential twenty twenty eight moves, so we wanted to make

1578
01:15:54,120 --> 01:15:56,679
Speaker 1: sure and give a little speed run through all of them.

1579
01:15:56,720 --> 01:15:59,080
Speaker 1: With Dave Weigel of Semaphore, who's always out on the

1580
01:15:59,080 --> 01:16:01,439
Speaker 1: campaign trail these folks and talk to these folks and

1581
01:16:01,439 --> 01:16:03,120
Speaker 1: can give us some of the inside knowledge here.

1582
01:16:03,160 --> 01:16:04,120
Speaker 3: So great to see you, Dave.

1583
01:16:04,200 --> 01:16:05,000
Speaker 13: Good to be here. Thank you.

1584
01:16:05,360 --> 01:16:08,160
Speaker 1: So let's start with Pritzker, who is governor of Illinois.

1585
01:16:08,200 --> 01:16:10,320
Speaker 1: Who I mean, it looks like he wants to run.

1586
01:16:10,280 --> 01:16:12,519
Speaker 13: Right fair to say he was in New Hampshire. I

1587
01:16:12,520 --> 01:16:13,679
Speaker 13: don't think his playing got diverted.

1588
01:16:13,720 --> 01:16:16,240
Speaker 1: I think he wanted to be in New hampt Indeed,

1589
01:16:16,280 --> 01:16:18,519
Speaker 1: so he said a lot of things that a lot

1590
01:16:18,560 --> 01:16:21,400
Speaker 1: of Democrats were like, Oh, okay, JB, you see what

1591
01:16:21,439 --> 01:16:24,120
Speaker 1: you're bringing to the table. This line in particular caught

1592
01:16:24,160 --> 01:16:26,000
Speaker 1: a lot of attention. So let's go ahead and play that.

1593
01:16:26,439 --> 01:16:27,280
Speaker 13: Never before in.

1594
01:16:27,200 --> 01:16:31,280
Speaker 15: My life have I called for mass protests, for mobilization,

1595
01:16:32,040 --> 01:16:32,760
Speaker 15: for disruption.

1596
01:16:33,360 --> 01:16:51,120
Speaker 16: But I am now these republic cannot build a moment

1597
01:16:51,160 --> 01:16:51,679
Speaker 16: of peace.

1598
01:16:53,479 --> 01:16:54,840
Speaker 4: They help don't understand that.

1599
01:16:54,880 --> 01:16:58,600
Speaker 16: We will fight there with every megaphone and microphone that

1600
01:16:58,720 --> 01:17:01,760
Speaker 16: we have. We must have estimate them on the soap

1601
01:17:01,840 --> 01:17:03,920
Speaker 16: box and then punish them at.

1602
01:17:03,760 --> 01:17:04,679
Speaker 13: The ballance box.

1603
01:17:08,520 --> 01:17:11,320
Speaker 1: And I did see some Republicans melt down over the

1604
01:17:11,320 --> 01:17:13,719
Speaker 1: hole he's calling for violence because he said they should

1605
01:17:13,720 --> 01:17:16,360
Speaker 1: never know peace, et cetera. But even that I think

1606
01:17:16,439 --> 01:17:19,640
Speaker 1: sort of plays to his benefit because Democrats love to

1607
01:17:19,680 --> 01:17:21,960
Speaker 1: see a Republican sort of like melting down and getting

1608
01:17:21,960 --> 01:17:24,439
Speaker 1: triggered over something that a Democratic candidate says, and them

1609
01:17:24,479 --> 01:17:26,479
Speaker 1: standing up for themselves and not just backing down in

1610
01:17:26,520 --> 01:17:28,400
Speaker 1: the Faceboks this profile too too.

1611
01:17:28,479 --> 01:17:31,559
Speaker 13: Oh absolutely, And I was at that event in that room.

1612
01:17:31,600 --> 01:17:33,959
Speaker 13: Before he was talking, there was a montage of protests

1613
01:17:34,000 --> 01:17:36,719
Speaker 13: that had happened in New Hampshire on the screen. Maggie

1614
01:17:36,760 --> 01:17:39,880
Speaker 13: Hafsen was talking about the protests. It you could see

1615
01:17:39,880 --> 01:17:41,439
Speaker 13: from them from the kind of the hair of people

1616
01:17:41,479 --> 01:17:43,479
Speaker 13: getting up. It was an older crowd of Democratic donors,

1617
01:17:43,640 --> 01:17:45,960
Speaker 13: but these are the people showing up at Tesla takedown stuff.

1618
01:17:46,080 --> 01:17:48,600
Speaker 13: So he was, first of all, right, right in the

1619
01:17:48,640 --> 01:17:50,880
Speaker 13: sweet spot of where Democrats want to be. Yes, right now,

1620
01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:53,799
Speaker 13: resist Trump with everything you have, and not just Trump,

1621
01:17:53,800 --> 01:17:55,960
Speaker 13: but resists kicking college students of the country because they

1622
01:17:56,000 --> 01:17:58,400
Speaker 13: wrote the wrong essay, that sort of thing. So he's

1623
01:17:58,439 --> 01:18:00,439
Speaker 13: with that second part of it. So all of us

1624
01:18:00,439 --> 01:18:03,000
Speaker 13: in the room, reporters knew that that line would land

1625
01:18:03,360 --> 01:18:06,280
Speaker 13: at some level. But that was perfect for him because

1626
01:18:06,280 --> 01:18:08,000
Speaker 13: the next day he was at u C at Chicago,

1627
01:18:08,080 --> 01:18:12,280
Speaker 13: the University with students talking about Trump's challenges the university

1628
01:18:12,360 --> 01:18:15,880
Speaker 13: endowments over protests on campus, and he got asked about it.

1629
01:18:15,960 --> 01:18:18,920
Speaker 13: Guys Stephen Miller, the illinary Republican Party both said he

1630
01:18:18,960 --> 01:18:21,479
Speaker 13: was calling for violence, and you can see needed a

1631
01:18:21,479 --> 01:18:23,080
Speaker 13: defendive that. But you can see he talks about the

1632
01:18:23,120 --> 01:18:26,080
Speaker 13: ballot box. He is saying, make sure that you're showing

1633
01:18:26,160 --> 01:18:28,360
Speaker 13: up and yelling at Republicans, which is not the same

1634
01:18:28,479 --> 01:18:31,600
Speaker 13: as blowing things up or doing and he is in

1635
01:18:31,640 --> 01:18:34,320
Speaker 13: a good position. He leaned on another part of the

1636
01:18:34,600 --> 01:18:37,160
Speaker 13: sorry interviews with people, not the speech. He mentions he's Jewish,

1637
01:18:37,479 --> 01:18:40,600
Speaker 13: he has funded a Holocaust museum. He does not. He

1638
01:18:40,720 --> 01:18:43,920
Speaker 13: is like Jos Shapiro. He is a Jewish liberal who

1639
01:18:43,960 --> 01:18:46,160
Speaker 13: is critical of something is Rael is doing and has

1640
01:18:46,280 --> 01:18:49,519
Speaker 13: used that clout to say, don't go after students who

1641
01:18:49,560 --> 01:18:52,280
Speaker 13: are critics of Israel. There are other questions of an answer,

1642
01:18:52,320 --> 01:18:55,519
Speaker 13: like is it a genocide, et cetera, But that's one

1643
01:18:55,560 --> 01:18:58,280
Speaker 13: where Democrats want to be two very good for bating

1644
01:18:58,320 --> 01:19:00,679
Speaker 13: Republicans who attacking him, and that is how you get attention,

1645
01:19:01,040 --> 01:19:03,479
Speaker 13: Like you can get a bad attention from that, but

1646
01:19:03,479 --> 01:19:05,400
Speaker 13: that is how you get attention from having Republicans be

1647
01:19:05,439 --> 01:19:08,080
Speaker 13: so annoyed at you that they're attacking you and condemning you.

1648
01:19:08,280 --> 01:19:10,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, and so you've covered him longer than a lot

1649
01:19:10,880 --> 01:19:12,720
Speaker 5: of people paid attention to him. So do you have

1650
01:19:12,760 --> 01:19:15,120
Speaker 5: a sense right now of what lane he thinks he's

1651
01:19:15,200 --> 01:19:17,360
Speaker 5: taking up in potential twenty twenty eight primary.

1652
01:19:17,400 --> 01:19:19,400
Speaker 4: It's it's so early, and it's so silly to.

1653
01:19:19,360 --> 01:19:21,000
Speaker 5: Even think about that because we don't know what the

1654
01:19:21,040 --> 01:19:23,160
Speaker 5: competition will be, and that determines kind of what lane

1655
01:19:23,160 --> 01:19:25,120
Speaker 5: people go in. But as of right now, what sense

1656
01:19:25,160 --> 01:19:27,360
Speaker 5: do you have of what he what kind of candidate

1657
01:19:27,400 --> 01:19:30,280
Speaker 5: he thinks he is. He's a billionaire, arguably oligarchic.

1658
01:19:30,280 --> 01:19:30,960
Speaker 4: I think you asked him that.

1659
01:19:31,080 --> 01:19:33,000
Speaker 13: I asked him, Yeah, I asked him when I asked him,

1660
01:19:33,040 --> 01:19:36,360
Speaker 13: when Bernie Sanders talks about the oligarchies, he's talking about you, and.

1661
01:19:36,520 --> 01:19:40,080
Speaker 1: But defied upon the screenwall, Dave's talking. We pulled your

1662
01:19:40,080 --> 01:19:41,880
Speaker 1: answer here, but go ahead, Yeah, yeah.

1663
01:19:41,560 --> 01:19:43,640
Speaker 13: And he gave an answer, which is that, no, I

1664
01:19:45,200 --> 01:19:47,400
Speaker 13: when he talks people talk about the aligarchy, they're talking

1665
01:19:47,400 --> 01:19:49,799
Speaker 13: about people who were taking over the government giving favors themselves,

1666
01:19:49,840 --> 01:19:52,680
Speaker 13: and that's not me I'm about And I had asked

1667
01:19:52,720 --> 01:19:55,240
Speaker 13: him a separate question about he's very in favor of

1668
01:19:55,560 --> 01:19:58,479
Speaker 13: progressive income taxes where the administration is trying to replace those.

1669
01:19:58,760 --> 01:20:00,559
Speaker 13: Not really, but they're saying they're trying to place income

1670
01:20:00,600 --> 01:20:03,040
Speaker 13: taxes with the tariff, and he was against that, and

1671
01:20:03,200 --> 01:20:05,360
Speaker 13: so he's he is running as a sort of he

1672
01:20:05,400 --> 01:20:07,639
Speaker 13: didn't say class trader, but sort of as a class trader.

1673
01:20:07,760 --> 01:20:10,680
Speaker 13: I've been very successful. I'm a billionaire. I want to

1674
01:20:10,680 --> 01:20:13,400
Speaker 13: take the government, reorient the resource to you that is progressive,

1675
01:20:13,680 --> 01:20:16,799
Speaker 13: and that with some work done early on to say,

1676
01:20:16,920 --> 01:20:20,400
Speaker 13: but I'm yes, I'm a billionaire. I'm not like those

1677
01:20:20,439 --> 01:20:22,599
Speaker 13: others and there are other quite like we're two years

1678
01:20:22,640 --> 01:20:25,200
Speaker 13: fro him announcing maybe will he spend his own money

1679
01:20:25,320 --> 01:20:27,919
Speaker 13: like he has in Illinois, because that has irritated progressives.

1680
01:20:27,960 --> 01:20:30,280
Speaker 13: Him spending I think three hundred and fifty million dollars

1681
01:20:30,280 --> 01:20:33,880
Speaker 13: between all his campaigns of his own money. And if

1682
01:20:33,240 --> 01:20:36,280
Speaker 13: you're worth you're a billionaire. It's hard to get poor again, right,

1683
01:20:36,520 --> 01:20:39,559
Speaker 13: the investments compound, he keeps spending it. That does not

1684
01:20:39,600 --> 01:20:41,679
Speaker 13: sit well with Democrats. They had Mike Bloomberg and Tom

1685
01:20:41,680 --> 01:20:44,800
Speaker 13: Steyer do that in the last open primary, and it

1686
01:20:44,840 --> 01:20:47,160
Speaker 13: did alienate them. I think he'll alienates even more the

1687
01:20:47,240 --> 01:20:48,519
Speaker 13: way the mood their mood is going to be in

1688
01:20:48,560 --> 01:20:51,559
Speaker 13: twenty twenty eight. But he's running as a progressive saying

1689
01:20:51,600 --> 01:20:53,639
Speaker 13: I'm not like those other rich people. I would use

1690
01:20:53,720 --> 01:20:57,519
Speaker 13: my status to redistribute income to not income, redistribute wealth

1691
01:20:57,560 --> 01:20:59,680
Speaker 13: to everybody else. And then starting from there, what's that

1692
01:20:59,760 --> 01:21:00,559
Speaker 13: mean to care for all?

1693
01:21:00,640 --> 01:21:00,840
Speaker 9: What is?

1694
01:21:01,320 --> 01:21:03,799
Speaker 13: He's not a Bernie candidate, but he is a progressive candidate.

1695
01:21:04,000 --> 01:21:06,360
Speaker 1: Interesting, and he also had some criticism by the way,

1696
01:21:06,439 --> 01:21:08,800
Speaker 1: I think, you know, I actually think he should affirmatively

1697
01:21:08,800 --> 01:21:11,400
Speaker 1: come out and say I'm a class trader and can

1698
01:21:11,439 --> 01:21:14,120
Speaker 1: cast himself in the role I mean FDR was, you know,

1699
01:21:14,280 --> 01:21:17,120
Speaker 1: was the prototypical like class trader, and I think he

1700
01:21:17,160 --> 01:21:19,920
Speaker 1: could potentially get away with it. The self funding thing

1701
01:21:20,720 --> 01:21:22,920
Speaker 1: is a problem both in terms of the optics but

1702
01:21:22,960 --> 01:21:25,080
Speaker 1: also in terms of the reality of that means that

1703
01:21:25,160 --> 01:21:27,920
Speaker 1: you don't feel like you need to solicit funds from

1704
01:21:27,920 --> 01:21:30,240
Speaker 1: a grossroots base, so you don't need to be responsive

1705
01:21:30,280 --> 01:21:32,280
Speaker 1: to them. So it actually can end up being a

1706
01:21:32,280 --> 01:21:35,240
Speaker 1: problem for candidates politically just because they are a little

1707
01:21:35,280 --> 01:21:37,240
Speaker 1: bit removed from where the base of the party is.

1708
01:21:37,240 --> 01:21:39,120
Speaker 1: But I mean so far, he seems to be kind of,

1709
01:21:39,200 --> 01:21:41,519
Speaker 1: you know, squarely in line and finger on the pulse,

1710
01:21:41,640 --> 01:21:44,160
Speaker 1: much more so than some other candidates of where the

1711
01:21:44,200 --> 01:21:46,400
Speaker 1: Democratic base is. One of the other things that he

1712
01:21:46,560 --> 01:21:49,160
Speaker 1: said that you're mentioning to us is he's also critical

1713
01:21:49,479 --> 01:21:53,400
Speaker 1: of Democrats democratic leadership that has been you know, seen

1714
01:21:53,400 --> 01:21:56,240
Speaker 1: as being and I think legitimately so rather cowardly in

1715
01:21:56,280 --> 01:21:59,360
Speaker 1: the face of Trump this time around. So you know,

1716
01:21:59,360 --> 01:22:01,639
Speaker 1: talk about how that relates to how he's positioning himself.

1717
01:22:01,760 --> 01:22:04,840
Speaker 13: Yes, he attacked do nothing Democrats, he didn't name them,

1718
01:22:05,160 --> 01:22:06,960
Speaker 13: and if you're reading, if you're reading between the lines,

1719
01:22:07,000 --> 01:22:09,439
Speaker 13: it was hard to say who exactly was talking about,

1720
01:22:09,479 --> 01:22:13,519
Speaker 13: except mostly James Carvel types pundits who have been saying

1721
01:22:14,760 --> 01:22:16,720
Speaker 13: vaguely that the party is seen as too left wing

1722
01:22:16,760 --> 01:22:19,200
Speaker 13: it needs to change somehow without explaining what that means.

1723
01:22:19,680 --> 01:22:21,920
Speaker 13: So it wasn't saying, like Bernie might that this is

1724
01:22:21,960 --> 01:22:23,960
Speaker 13: because of rich donors who were who want the party

1725
01:22:23,960 --> 01:22:26,160
Speaker 13: to move in one direction, or because this is in

1726
01:22:26,320 --> 01:22:29,040
Speaker 13: United He's not saying that. It was more generally there

1727
01:22:29,040 --> 01:22:31,759
Speaker 13: are people in our party who are get scared of fighting,

1728
01:22:31,760 --> 01:22:33,280
Speaker 13: and I'm not scared of fighting, and we're going to

1729
01:22:33,360 --> 01:22:38,120
Speaker 13: change that, and that this has been complicated because because

1730
01:22:38,120 --> 01:22:41,600
Speaker 13: the Biden record on policy on what bills were prioritized

1731
01:22:41,880 --> 01:22:44,800
Speaker 13: was pretty progressive. Bernie had a big role in getting

1732
01:22:44,840 --> 01:22:47,479
Speaker 13: some stuff he wanted through, and that's kind of been forgotten.

1733
01:22:47,680 --> 01:22:49,640
Speaker 13: No Democrat is saying I'm going to return to what

1734
01:22:49,680 --> 01:22:53,320
Speaker 13: Biden was doing, or that Biden set this up by

1735
01:22:53,320 --> 01:22:55,759
Speaker 13: being too too far the right. And again, the gaza

1736
01:22:55,840 --> 01:22:58,120
Speaker 13: issue is very complicated. Wasn't part of that. But what

1737
01:22:58,200 --> 01:23:00,760
Speaker 13: is what is his criticism of Democrats? It's really this.

1738
01:23:00,840 --> 01:23:03,439
Speaker 13: It's been pretty easy for progressive to say this. The

1739
01:23:03,479 --> 01:23:05,679
Speaker 13: guys who were saying let's wait and fight Trump later,

1740
01:23:05,800 --> 01:23:08,599
Speaker 13: let's not pick every fight, let's not fight about El

1741
01:23:08,680 --> 01:23:11,439
Speaker 13: Salvador and Garcia, that's who he's criticizing. So it's not

1742
01:23:11,479 --> 01:23:13,840
Speaker 13: quite an economic argument yet. It is that there are

1743
01:23:13,880 --> 01:23:15,920
Speaker 13: people out there who attitude and only get worried and

1744
01:23:15,920 --> 01:23:17,960
Speaker 13: don't want to give a comment or don't have a quote.

1745
01:23:18,360 --> 01:23:20,720
Speaker 13: Here's me JB. Pritzker. I will jump out and immediately

1746
01:23:20,800 --> 01:23:23,360
Speaker 13: be in front of a camera condemning something that might

1747
01:23:23,400 --> 01:23:26,120
Speaker 13: pull badly. That was the key, and because I think

1748
01:23:26,160 --> 01:23:28,360
Speaker 13: that fight might be over for Democrats for now. But

1749
01:23:28,439 --> 01:23:31,559
Speaker 13: the Garcia thing. It was a lot of anonymous Democrats saying, please,

1750
01:23:31,600 --> 01:23:34,360
Speaker 13: let's not talk about this. It was I saw heckem difference.

1751
01:23:34,360 --> 01:23:36,599
Speaker 13: This week's already denying these saying, don't go to El Salvador.

1752
01:23:36,800 --> 01:23:38,800
Speaker 13: But that's what he's talking about, that attitude. Are you

1753
01:23:38,840 --> 01:23:41,800
Speaker 13: bold enough to just jump in and frankly, like Trump

1754
01:23:41,920 --> 01:23:43,960
Speaker 13: was in twenty fifteen with Republicans, are you ready to

1755
01:23:44,000 --> 01:23:45,840
Speaker 13: say something that everyone in the media is going to

1756
01:23:45,880 --> 01:23:47,800
Speaker 13: say is a bad idea? That's what he was kind

1757
01:23:47,800 --> 01:23:48,640
Speaker 13: of saying to Democrats.

1758
01:23:48,640 --> 01:23:49,000
Speaker 4: Interesting.

1759
01:23:49,120 --> 01:23:51,559
Speaker 5: Yeah, So let's roll Pete Bododha j Eddge a little

1760
01:23:51,600 --> 01:23:53,839
Speaker 5: bit a clip of his appearance on The Flagrant Podcast.

1761
01:23:53,880 --> 01:23:56,599
Speaker 5: One of the most powerful podcast appearances actually, Donald Trump

1762
01:23:56,600 --> 01:23:59,320
Speaker 5: did in the twenty twenty four cycle was on that show.

1763
01:23:59,400 --> 01:24:02,080
Speaker 5: So let's take a look at at Pete handling that appearance.

1764
01:24:02,120 --> 01:24:03,280
Speaker 5: Pretty well, this is D two.

1765
01:24:03,600 --> 01:24:06,160
Speaker 17: I want everyday life to be better. That's what they

1766
01:24:06,160 --> 01:24:08,360
Speaker 17: want to you get up in the morning. Yeah, but importantly,

1767
01:24:08,439 --> 01:24:10,800
Speaker 17: like all the controversies are over, what that's like, Like,

1768
01:24:10,840 --> 01:24:11,880
Speaker 17: I want you to be able to get up in

1769
01:24:11,920 --> 01:24:15,479
Speaker 17: the morning, and the first thing you do is you

1770
01:24:16,120 --> 01:24:18,479
Speaker 17: commute to work and by the way if you want

1771
01:24:18,560 --> 01:24:20,519
Speaker 17: EV I want that to be affordable for you, or

1772
01:24:20,560 --> 01:24:22,599
Speaker 17: if you're on public transit, not to get back into

1773
01:24:22,600 --> 01:24:24,160
Speaker 17: the subway situation, but I want you to have good

1774
01:24:24,200 --> 01:24:26,120
Speaker 17: public transition to get to where you're going. And then

1775
01:24:26,160 --> 01:24:27,439
Speaker 17: when you get to that job, I want you to

1776
01:24:27,479 --> 01:24:29,439
Speaker 17: be paid well. And if you're about to have a kid,

1777
01:24:29,520 --> 01:24:30,760
Speaker 17: I want you to know that you're going to have

1778
01:24:30,800 --> 01:24:33,000
Speaker 17: parental leave when you have that kid. And if you

1779
01:24:33,000 --> 01:24:34,200
Speaker 17: don't want to have a kid, I want you to

1780
01:24:34,200 --> 01:24:36,360
Speaker 17: have the right to choose whatever a kid, which means

1781
01:24:36,360 --> 01:24:39,360
Speaker 17: access to birth control and abortion and those things that

1782
01:24:39,439 --> 01:24:41,120
Speaker 17: give you the freedom to decide on that. And if

1783
01:24:41,120 --> 01:24:42,800
Speaker 17: you already have a kid, when you pick them up

1784
01:24:42,800 --> 01:24:44,320
Speaker 17: at school, I want that school to be good, not

1785
01:24:44,360 --> 01:24:46,360
Speaker 17: having its funding slash while they set fire to the

1786
01:24:46,360 --> 01:24:48,920
Speaker 17: Department of Education. And then when you get home, I

1787
01:24:48,920 --> 01:24:51,040
Speaker 17: want you to be in a neighborhood that is safe

1788
01:24:51,360 --> 01:24:53,599
Speaker 17: and where you can breathe the air because we didn't

1789
01:24:53,640 --> 01:24:55,639
Speaker 17: let them get rid of the Clean Air Act, and

1790
01:24:55,760 --> 01:24:58,639
Speaker 17: you don't have to think for one moment about whether

1791
01:24:58,680 --> 01:25:00,720
Speaker 17: the airy breathe or the water you drink clean and clear,

1792
01:25:00,720 --> 01:25:03,679
Speaker 17: which actually takes a lot because it means the government

1793
01:25:03,680 --> 01:25:06,799
Speaker 17: has to constrain those actors that would make you unfree

1794
01:25:06,840 --> 01:25:09,200
Speaker 17: by polluting there and polluting the water. And then when

1795
01:25:09,240 --> 01:25:10,880
Speaker 17: you go to bed, I want you to know that

1796
01:25:10,920 --> 01:25:13,439
Speaker 17: your families can be fine, even if it's family like mine,

1797
01:25:13,880 --> 01:25:17,639
Speaker 17: despite there being some Supreme Court justice who wants to

1798
01:25:17,720 --> 01:25:20,439
Speaker 17: obliterate your family because it doesn't match his interpretation of

1799
01:25:20,479 --> 01:25:22,400
Speaker 17: his religion. Like that's the life I.

1800
01:25:22,360 --> 01:25:23,400
Speaker 4: Want everybody to be able to live.

1801
01:25:23,640 --> 01:25:31,200
Speaker 17: Yeah, and I think we can deliver that.

1802
01:25:28,400 --> 01:25:33,920
Speaker 4: Sort of abundance adjacent at that point. So if people are.

1803
01:25:33,800 --> 01:25:35,639
Speaker 5: Listening to this, they missed that Pete sort of grown

1804
01:25:35,640 --> 01:25:38,000
Speaker 5: in everyman beard, which is kind of interesting. And going

1805
01:25:38,000 --> 01:25:40,880
Speaker 5: on a bro podcast, how did this appearance? Did you

1806
01:25:40,880 --> 01:25:43,280
Speaker 5: get a sense of how Democrats reacted to this appearance?

1807
01:25:43,320 --> 01:25:45,479
Speaker 5: And maybe from your perspective as someone who's covered this,

1808
01:25:45,520 --> 01:25:48,480
Speaker 5: what it says about Boodha Judge's plans for the future.

1809
01:25:48,680 --> 01:25:52,080
Speaker 13: Possibly that I did hear democrats say more how who

1810
01:25:52,160 --> 01:25:54,640
Speaker 13: else can do this? Not just ready to give the

1811
01:25:54,640 --> 01:25:57,000
Speaker 13: nomination to this guy, but who else can talk like this?

1812
01:25:57,320 --> 01:25:59,479
Speaker 13: Who else can articulate? Take this? Because you mentioned abundance,

1813
01:25:59,520 --> 01:26:02,519
Speaker 13: yea actually in abundance. The first chapter begins like that

1814
01:26:02,640 --> 01:26:06,320
Speaker 13: is a very effective rhetorical tactic to say, imagine your

1815
01:26:06,320 --> 01:26:08,720
Speaker 13: life minute by minute or hour by hour if we

1816
01:26:08,760 --> 01:26:09,400
Speaker 13: get our way.

1817
01:26:09,640 --> 01:26:11,400
Speaker 1: It's sort of like that name of like you know,

1818
01:26:11,439 --> 01:26:14,200
Speaker 1: the city looking glorious and you know, like this if

1819
01:26:14,240 --> 01:26:15,559
Speaker 1: Pete Booter Jedge gets elected.

1820
01:26:17,160 --> 01:26:18,519
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, the.

1821
01:26:18,479 --> 01:26:20,400
Speaker 13: Original Green New Deal pitch was like that. Imagine you

1822
01:26:20,439 --> 01:26:22,720
Speaker 13: wake up and you take cream public transit and then

1823
01:26:22,760 --> 01:26:25,639
Speaker 13: you have the uh. And so that was what I heard,

1824
01:26:25,680 --> 01:26:27,679
Speaker 13: not not jealousy, how do we copy this? But who

1825
01:26:27,680 --> 01:26:30,080
Speaker 13: else can do that? Can Shapiro do that? Can That's

1826
01:26:30,080 --> 01:26:32,120
Speaker 13: how they saw it in terms of the next presidential candidate,

1827
01:26:32,120 --> 01:26:34,000
Speaker 13: in terms of rhetoric and going back to why they

1828
01:26:34,000 --> 01:26:37,160
Speaker 13: lost last time. They do think that there is a

1829
01:26:37,200 --> 01:26:40,320
Speaker 13: calcified democratic sultan class and really not shocking you saying

1830
01:26:40,360 --> 01:26:43,599
Speaker 13: this that that is very scared of taking a risk

1831
01:26:43,640 --> 01:26:45,760
Speaker 13: and saying something that might that might be hard to

1832
01:26:45,760 --> 01:26:49,400
Speaker 13: defend in a debate that wants to use phrases like

1833
01:26:49,600 --> 01:26:52,200
Speaker 13: opportunity economy, a phrase that you only mentioned anymore if

1834
01:26:52,240 --> 01:26:54,800
Speaker 13: you're trying to say how bad it was.

1835
01:26:54,400 --> 01:26:59,000
Speaker 1: Pope Brothers, what's.

1836
01:26:56,720 --> 01:26:59,639
Speaker 13: The what's the sound bite? And and that's what he

1837
01:26:59,720 --> 01:27:02,360
Speaker 13: was doing that they think other Democrats should should do.

1838
01:27:03,320 --> 01:27:06,840
Speaker 13: Is how do you actually make this a memorable story

1839
01:27:06,880 --> 01:27:09,360
Speaker 13: that stays in somebody's head and not talking point because

1840
01:27:09,360 --> 01:27:12,920
Speaker 13: they hear a talking point. And even liberation when you

1841
01:27:12,920 --> 01:27:15,960
Speaker 13: think of a concise phrase that probably sounded good in

1842
01:27:15,960 --> 01:27:18,040
Speaker 13: the focus group, the next time you think of, it's

1843
01:27:18,040 --> 01:27:20,479
Speaker 13: being made fun of generally. And that was what their

1844
01:27:20,520 --> 01:27:23,720
Speaker 13: last nominee did a lot of to extend Obama. Sorry,

1845
01:27:23,840 --> 01:27:26,679
Speaker 13: Biden had stock phrases that he'd repeat when he was younger,

1846
01:27:26,680 --> 01:27:28,320
Speaker 13: and he was better. He was very good at talking

1847
01:27:28,320 --> 01:27:31,639
Speaker 13: about good being at home at night with your kids

1848
01:27:31,640 --> 01:27:33,360
Speaker 13: and think about your bills and waking up and wondering

1849
01:27:33,360 --> 01:27:36,280
Speaker 13: how you're going to afford your family. That's very basic politics.

1850
01:27:36,280 --> 01:27:38,320
Speaker 13: And that's part of this discourse is how come we

1851
01:27:38,360 --> 01:27:39,880
Speaker 13: have so few people who are good at the basic

1852
01:27:39,920 --> 01:27:42,360
Speaker 13: politics at that level? They have members of Congress who

1853
01:27:42,360 --> 01:27:44,320
Speaker 13: are pretty good at it. But then they've got a

1854
01:27:44,360 --> 01:27:48,080
Speaker 13: diferent discussion the seniority issue where they have old Democrats

1855
01:27:48,120 --> 01:27:49,840
Speaker 13: who can't do it very well anymore. And that's what

1856
01:27:49,880 --> 01:27:52,839
Speaker 13: they It wasn't let's give him the nomination, he's our savior.

1857
01:27:52,960 --> 01:27:55,439
Speaker 13: It is how do we get Andy Basheer in that

1858
01:27:55,479 --> 01:28:00,360
Speaker 13: conversation because they're Democrats who just don't who. I'm not

1859
01:28:00,400 --> 01:28:02,600
Speaker 13: saying he can't do this, but Democrats have learned a

1860
01:28:02,640 --> 01:28:05,400
Speaker 13: bad way of talking, and it's only dawning on him now.

1861
01:28:05,400 --> 01:28:07,160
Speaker 13: This is a bad, unconvincing way of talking.

1862
01:28:07,439 --> 01:28:09,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean it's a it's also a sort

1863
01:28:09,760 --> 01:28:14,000
Speaker 1: of subtle rebuke of the Kamala Harris like how safe

1864
01:28:14,040 --> 01:28:16,160
Speaker 1: they were and how fraid she was and the you know,

1865
01:28:16,200 --> 01:28:18,080
Speaker 1: the Joe Rogan not going on there.

1866
01:28:18,120 --> 01:28:19,639
Speaker 3: Whoever's felt that was whatever.

1867
01:28:19,960 --> 01:28:23,599
Speaker 1: But she has always been a politician that is very

1868
01:28:24,320 --> 01:28:27,760
Speaker 1: carefully managed and very nervous about doing interviews with people

1869
01:28:27,840 --> 01:28:29,640
Speaker 1: she doesn't know and not knowing how it's going to go.

1870
01:28:29,800 --> 01:28:33,040
Speaker 1: And look, Pete, I'm a well established Pete hater, but

1871
01:28:33,120 --> 01:28:35,000
Speaker 1: I will say I will say he did turn out

1872
01:28:35,040 --> 01:28:37,600
Speaker 1: to be a pretty effective regulator in the Biden administration,

1873
01:28:38,080 --> 01:28:40,360
Speaker 1: and you put him on Fox News, you put him

1874
01:28:40,360 --> 01:28:43,080
Speaker 1: in setting like that, like the man has skills. So

1875
01:28:43,200 --> 01:28:45,759
Speaker 1: I definitely, you know, I think he could. I certainly

1876
01:28:45,760 --> 01:28:47,960
Speaker 1: think he could be a contender. He's got a lot

1877
01:28:47,960 --> 01:28:49,560
Speaker 1: of name recognition, a lot of good will with the

1878
01:28:49,600 --> 01:28:52,280
Speaker 1: Democratic base, So I think he could be well positioned.

1879
01:28:52,400 --> 01:28:55,200
Speaker 1: The other person you just mentioned there is Andy Basheer,

1880
01:28:55,240 --> 01:28:59,360
Speaker 1: who's the governor of Kentucky, who is I think still

1881
01:28:59,479 --> 01:29:03,599
Speaker 1: the most popular democratic governor in the country, even though

1882
01:29:03,800 --> 01:29:06,040
Speaker 1: he's governor of Kentucky, a state that is, you know,

1883
01:29:06,240 --> 01:29:09,760
Speaker 1: very Trump friendly and very Republican. And you know, Anniebscher

1884
01:29:09,960 --> 01:29:11,520
Speaker 1: is not a firebrand.

1885
01:29:11,800 --> 01:29:13,680
Speaker 3: He very much tries.

1886
01:29:13,439 --> 01:29:15,639
Speaker 1: To stay in the lane of like, I'm creating jobs.

1887
01:29:15,680 --> 01:29:17,719
Speaker 1: He ran, you know, coming out of the teacher strike

1888
01:29:17,760 --> 01:29:21,120
Speaker 1: wave against cuts to teacher's pensions and assault on education.

1889
01:29:21,320 --> 01:29:23,919
Speaker 1: And you know, there's a lot of sort of backstory

1890
01:29:23,920 --> 01:29:27,400
Speaker 1: there of how he's his political formation. But I just say,

1891
01:29:27,800 --> 01:29:31,320
Speaker 1: and you've covered him a lot too. He's never impressed

1892
01:29:31,320 --> 01:29:34,080
Speaker 1: me on like a charisma front. He's one who I

1893
01:29:34,080 --> 01:29:36,759
Speaker 1: would say, you know, he's good when he's he's studied

1894
01:29:36,800 --> 01:29:39,280
Speaker 1: his lines and he's got his like little you know,

1895
01:29:39,479 --> 01:29:41,680
Speaker 1: Kentucky style jabs ready to go.

1896
01:29:42,320 --> 01:29:44,280
Speaker 3: He's one that I feel like has gotten better. And

1897
01:29:44,320 --> 01:29:44,960
Speaker 3: he impressed me.

1898
01:29:44,960 --> 01:29:47,760
Speaker 1: It was just on Fox News and sparring with the

1899
01:29:47,760 --> 01:29:50,160
Speaker 1: host there, and I thought he was pretty nimble and

1900
01:29:50,439 --> 01:29:52,400
Speaker 1: handled himself pretty well. Let's go ahead and take a

1901
01:29:52,439 --> 01:29:53,439
Speaker 1: listen to Andy.

1902
01:29:53,240 --> 01:29:55,760
Speaker 18: Basheer in the contrary to build plans. We're going to

1903
01:29:55,800 --> 01:29:57,280
Speaker 18: hear announcements on that this afternoon.

1904
01:29:57,360 --> 01:29:58,200
Speaker 4: I guess all I'm.

1905
01:29:58,080 --> 01:30:01,519
Speaker 18: Saying is, isn't it worth kind of giving some of

1906
01:30:01,520 --> 01:30:05,160
Speaker 18: this a try? Since he did win all of the

1907
01:30:05,200 --> 01:30:07,800
Speaker 18: swing states across the country, which I know he points

1908
01:30:07,800 --> 01:30:10,960
Speaker 18: out quite often. But I guess the question is the

1909
01:30:10,960 --> 01:30:14,520
Speaker 18: things that voters were looking for and that got them elected,

1910
01:30:14,960 --> 01:30:18,479
Speaker 18: writing our trade situation, fixing the border. Doesn't it make

1911
01:30:18,520 --> 01:30:20,840
Speaker 18: sense to have at least a grace period for this

1912
01:30:20,920 --> 01:30:24,080
Speaker 18: American president to see if some of this will work.

1913
01:30:25,880 --> 01:30:29,559
Speaker 19: I believe that Donald Trump isn't president because he talked

1914
01:30:29,600 --> 01:30:33,120
Speaker 19: about trade policies. He's president because he talked about making

1915
01:30:33,160 --> 01:30:37,160
Speaker 19: it easier. This idea that we can reshore immediately when

1916
01:30:37,200 --> 01:30:40,679
Speaker 19: factories take three to five years to build, and even

1917
01:30:40,720 --> 01:30:41,479
Speaker 19: when why not.

1918
01:30:41,560 --> 01:30:43,280
Speaker 4: Be built, why not begin the process?

1919
01:30:43,640 --> 01:30:46,960
Speaker 19: Share manufactured? Hight not begin the problem a significant way,

1920
01:30:47,320 --> 01:30:50,799
Speaker 19: And our projects are being paused and they're being stalled

1921
01:30:50,840 --> 01:30:53,960
Speaker 19: because even when you're building that new factory, you do

1922
01:30:54,040 --> 01:30:57,080
Speaker 19: have to import certain goods. So I think you just

1923
01:30:57,160 --> 01:31:00,840
Speaker 19: have facts about how this is hitting the economy, and listen,

1924
01:31:00,880 --> 01:31:03,360
Speaker 19: I'm not trying to root against the president. I'm not

1925
01:31:03,360 --> 01:31:05,519
Speaker 19: trying to do this because I'm a Democratic governor, he's

1926
01:31:05,560 --> 01:31:08,599
Speaker 19: a Republican president. I'm doing it because I can support

1927
01:31:08,640 --> 01:31:11,679
Speaker 19: any administration that helps our people. But it's my job

1928
01:31:11,720 --> 01:31:14,000
Speaker 19: to speak out when the policies hurt our people.

1929
01:31:14,200 --> 01:31:16,040
Speaker 1: So what do you think of his prospects and how

1930
01:31:16,080 --> 01:31:17,120
Speaker 1: he's positioned himself.

1931
01:31:17,400 --> 01:31:19,160
Speaker 13: Yeah, he is someone you hear you heard a lot

1932
01:31:19,160 --> 01:31:22,200
Speaker 13: of in the Deep conversation. Uh, and he is more cautious.

1933
01:31:22,200 --> 01:31:23,720
Speaker 13: So the important thing that the Peed interview is that

1934
01:31:23,760 --> 01:31:26,080
Speaker 13: it was long and and a lot of Democratic staffers

1935
01:31:26,080 --> 01:31:28,719
Speaker 13: don't let their bosses go on and talk for that much,

1936
01:31:29,920 --> 01:31:31,840
Speaker 13: that much of a conversation because you saw this actually

1937
01:31:31,840 --> 01:31:36,600
Speaker 13: with Tim Wallas yesterday. You give an hour long conversation,

1938
01:31:36,800 --> 01:31:38,719
Speaker 13: five seconds get slipped on Twitter and that's all people

1939
01:31:38,760 --> 01:31:43,080
Speaker 13: talk about. They're worried about that. And by the way, yeah,

1940
01:31:43,240 --> 01:31:46,080
Speaker 13: I guess I'm spoiling it. But yeah, Bashier is better

1941
01:31:46,160 --> 01:31:48,240
Speaker 13: at the at the I've got ten minutes to make

1942
01:31:48,240 --> 01:31:50,479
Speaker 13: my case and make and soundbites, and very good at

1943
01:31:50,520 --> 01:31:52,720
Speaker 13: relating to things in Kentucky because they've had a very

1944
01:31:52,720 --> 01:31:54,840
Speaker 13: successful economy over the over the last six he's been

1945
01:31:54,880 --> 01:31:58,280
Speaker 13: governor six years uh and can can get into the

1946
01:31:58,280 --> 01:32:00,280
Speaker 13: weeds more than a host does, more than more than

1947
01:32:00,280 --> 01:32:02,719
Speaker 13: Trump does. Trump is very very blase when he talks

1948
01:32:02,760 --> 01:32:06,080
Speaker 13: about on shoring or Peter Navarro is and just slowing

1949
01:32:06,080 --> 01:32:07,760
Speaker 13: people down and saying this is not going to work

1950
01:32:07,800 --> 01:32:10,200
Speaker 13: because of here, let me, let me tell you this process.

1951
01:32:10,760 --> 01:32:12,840
Speaker 13: He's been doing that when he's running in Kentucky. He

1952
01:32:12,920 --> 01:32:15,680
Speaker 13: get very specific about here is how I brought this business. Here,

1953
01:32:15,720 --> 01:32:18,280
Speaker 13: here's how many people employ I'm here with the ribbon cutting.

1954
01:32:18,479 --> 01:32:20,559
Speaker 13: That is a different kind of politics that. Frankly, Joe

1955
01:32:20,560 --> 01:32:22,679
Speaker 13: Biden did a lot of Here I am, and here

1956
01:32:22,720 --> 01:32:25,439
Speaker 13: is how IRA is working. But Joe Biden was so

1957
01:32:25,479 --> 01:32:28,759
Speaker 13: bad articulating it for just just charisma at that point

1958
01:32:29,280 --> 01:32:32,360
Speaker 13: and articulation reasons that was a little redundant. But you

1959
01:32:32,360 --> 01:32:34,080
Speaker 13: know what I mean. But Biden would give a speech

1960
01:32:34,120 --> 01:32:35,559
Speaker 13: about that and all people would focus on us how

1961
01:32:35,560 --> 01:32:37,519
Speaker 13: we shuffled out to it, and but shere does the

1962
01:32:37,520 --> 01:32:40,120
Speaker 13: Biden thing of saying, here's how this actually works. Here's

1963
01:32:40,160 --> 01:32:43,479
Speaker 13: that seriously with with like a little more youth and

1964
01:32:43,479 --> 01:32:46,519
Speaker 13: a little more of ability to go back and forth

1965
01:32:46,520 --> 01:32:48,439
Speaker 13: in an interviewer. But that's not the exact skill that

1966
01:32:48,439 --> 01:32:50,360
Speaker 13: Democrats are looking for in the moment when they're trying

1967
01:32:50,400 --> 01:32:52,439
Speaker 13: to robut Trump and say no, we do have an

1968
01:32:52,439 --> 01:32:54,760
Speaker 13: economic agenda. That's part of it is can we can

1969
01:32:54,800 --> 01:32:57,320
Speaker 13: we explain why because I would. I mean not to

1970
01:32:57,360 --> 01:32:59,840
Speaker 13: be Tom Friedman, but I've been in cabs where he

1971
01:33:00,160 --> 01:33:02,080
Speaker 13: loved Trump and they say, I love the terrorist because

1972
01:33:02,080 --> 01:33:04,120
Speaker 13: he's going to bring factories back. And that is something

1973
01:33:04,200 --> 01:33:06,720
Speaker 13: Democrats need to respond to because they had their own

1974
01:33:06,760 --> 01:33:09,160
Speaker 13: bring factories back plan. It was what Biden was doing,

1975
01:33:09,200 --> 01:33:12,000
Speaker 13: but we just said Biden didn't convince anyone he was doing.

1976
01:33:12,240 --> 01:33:14,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the economy is going to, in a sense,

1977
01:33:14,560 --> 01:33:18,280
Speaker 1: provide his own response. Yeah, it's almost like democratic messaging proof.

1978
01:33:20,600 --> 01:33:23,000
Speaker 5: Okay, so let's actually put D six up.

1979
01:33:23,000 --> 01:33:24,200
Speaker 4: This is a voiceover.

1980
01:33:24,600 --> 01:33:29,200
Speaker 5: You can see Gretchen Whitmer speaking of retail politics, Gretchen

1981
01:33:29,240 --> 01:33:32,600
Speaker 5: Whitmer greeting President Trump as he arrived in Michigan for

1982
01:33:32,920 --> 01:33:35,559
Speaker 5: his rally is one hundred day rally.

1983
01:33:35,680 --> 01:33:37,640
Speaker 4: And it only got.

1984
01:33:37,560 --> 01:33:42,200
Speaker 5: More uncomfortable from there because we have this is D

1985
01:33:42,360 --> 01:33:47,320
Speaker 5: six b. Donald Trump basically calling the Democratic governor of Michigan,

1986
01:33:47,400 --> 01:33:50,960
Speaker 5: Gretchen Whitmer, to the microphone while he was speaking to

1987
01:33:51,160 --> 01:33:54,439
Speaker 5: a group, a military group on This was Tuesday, so

1988
01:33:54,520 --> 01:33:55,400
Speaker 5: let's rule D six B.

1989
01:34:08,600 --> 01:34:11,280
Speaker 20: Well, I hadn't planned to speak, but I'm on behalf

1990
01:34:11,320 --> 01:34:14,680
Speaker 20: of all the military men and women who serve our

1991
01:34:14,760 --> 01:34:17,880
Speaker 20: country and serve so honorably, on behalf of the state

1992
01:34:17,920 --> 01:34:21,000
Speaker 20: of Michigan. I am really damn happy we're here to

1993
01:34:21,120 --> 01:34:25,639
Speaker 20: celebrate this recapitalization at Selfridge. It's crucial for the Michigan economy.

1994
01:34:25,640 --> 01:34:28,000
Speaker 20: It's crucial for the men and women here, for our

1995
01:34:28,000 --> 01:34:30,000
Speaker 20: homeland security and our future.

1996
01:34:30,160 --> 01:34:31,200
Speaker 4: So thank you.

1997
01:34:31,320 --> 01:34:35,559
Speaker 20: I'm so grateful that this announcements me today, and I

1998
01:34:35,560 --> 01:34:36,479
Speaker 20: appreciate all the work.

1999
01:34:36,560 --> 01:34:41,880
Speaker 4: Thank you so again.

2000
01:34:41,920 --> 01:34:43,880
Speaker 5: If you were listening to that, you probably picked up

2001
01:34:43,920 --> 01:34:45,800
Speaker 5: on how awkward it was. Watching it is even more

2002
01:34:45,880 --> 01:34:48,160
Speaker 5: uncomfortable because at one point she as she's saying how

2003
01:34:48,200 --> 01:34:50,240
Speaker 5: thankful she is, she turns to look at Donald Trump

2004
01:34:50,320 --> 01:34:52,799
Speaker 5: as though she's about to say I'm grateful to President Trump,

2005
01:34:53,120 --> 01:34:55,559
Speaker 5: realizes that she should just say I'm grateful this event

2006
01:34:55,680 --> 01:34:57,880
Speaker 5: is happening, and that's what comes out of her mouth.

2007
01:34:58,080 --> 01:35:01,559
Speaker 3: I'm grateful that this is a thing that's happening.

2008
01:35:01,680 --> 01:35:04,400
Speaker 5: I'm grateful for the United States of America, Like that's

2009
01:35:04,479 --> 01:35:06,000
Speaker 5: what was going on in her mind.

2010
01:35:06,040 --> 01:35:07,280
Speaker 4: You can just see the wheels turning.

2011
01:35:07,320 --> 01:35:11,280
Speaker 5: But Dave Gretchen and Whitmer, I'll also had that incident

2012
01:35:11,320 --> 01:35:13,320
Speaker 5: in the Oval office not too long ago where she

2013
01:35:13,479 --> 01:35:16,880
Speaker 5: was photographed covering her face with a binder, very conspicuously

2014
01:35:17,439 --> 01:35:19,679
Speaker 5: looking like she was intentionally trying to cover her face

2015
01:35:19,760 --> 01:35:20,040
Speaker 5: on this.

2016
01:35:20,160 --> 01:35:24,120
Speaker 4: So Kentucky is a redder state than Michigan.

2017
01:35:25,200 --> 01:35:29,640
Speaker 5: This is a very interesting, i think dichotomy or contrast

2018
01:35:29,720 --> 01:35:32,320
Speaker 5: when you're looking at the way Bashir is handling the

2019
01:35:32,320 --> 01:35:34,840
Speaker 5: Trump second Trump administration and Whitmer is handling the second

2020
01:35:34,880 --> 01:35:35,720
Speaker 5: Trump administration.

2021
01:35:36,160 --> 01:35:40,080
Speaker 4: What do you make of her efforts to walk.

2022
01:35:39,880 --> 01:35:42,599
Speaker 5: The fine Trump line, especially in the midst of the tariff,

2023
01:35:42,800 --> 01:35:46,120
Speaker 5: up ending the terraf War, up ending Michigan's economy.

2024
01:35:46,439 --> 01:35:49,439
Speaker 13: It hasn't gone well for her as a perspective presidential

2025
01:35:49,520 --> 01:35:51,880
Speaker 13: candidate in New Hampshire. At this dinner, the Pritzkerer is

2026
01:35:51,920 --> 01:35:54,920
Speaker 13: at this fundraising dinner just talking to people beforehand. People

2027
01:35:54,960 --> 01:35:56,960
Speaker 13: brought that up as the first thing they knew about Whitmer.

2028
01:35:57,080 --> 01:35:59,840
Speaker 13: These democrats, and these are plugged in democrats who have

2029
01:36:00,040 --> 01:36:02,240
Speaker 13: see Whitmer campaign in the state before for other people,

2030
01:36:02,240 --> 01:36:05,559
Speaker 13: and they have an open mind, but that already was

2031
01:36:05,560 --> 01:36:08,600
Speaker 13: a strike against her. Why was it? It just was

2032
01:36:08,600 --> 01:36:12,519
Speaker 13: that it made her look weak and that not that

2033
01:36:12,520 --> 01:36:15,080
Speaker 13: every campaign is twenty twenty twenty, but I heard this

2034
01:36:15,120 --> 01:36:17,280
Speaker 13: so much when people were looking for somebody who could

2035
01:36:17,320 --> 01:36:19,600
Speaker 13: run against Trump. They really hated how it looked like

2036
01:36:19,680 --> 01:36:22,439
Speaker 13: Hillary Clinton was dominated by Trump and in the town

2037
01:36:22,479 --> 01:36:26,000
Speaker 13: hall debate, very superficial stuff. But I heard that again

2038
01:36:26,000 --> 01:36:28,400
Speaker 13: and again, and just the fact that she didn't look

2039
01:36:28,439 --> 01:36:31,439
Speaker 13: like she could stand up to Trump in the oval office.

2040
01:36:31,439 --> 01:36:33,720
Speaker 13: This is a little bit different setting that came up

2041
01:36:33,760 --> 01:36:36,280
Speaker 13: for her as a presidential candidate, for her as somebody

2042
01:36:37,400 --> 01:36:41,120
Speaker 13: in Michigan trying to keep Democrats in power in the midterms. This,

2043
01:36:41,600 --> 01:36:43,400
Speaker 13: I think that actually makes a lot of sense. She's

2044
01:36:43,439 --> 01:36:46,360
Speaker 13: doing stuff that other Democrats would politically have trouble doing.

2045
01:36:46,640 --> 01:36:48,599
Speaker 13: I think she has leaned into the fact that Trump

2046
01:36:48,720 --> 01:36:52,200
Speaker 13: sees her as a potential presidential candidate, and it is

2047
01:36:52,720 --> 01:36:54,760
Speaker 13: every time that she's there making a deal with him,

2048
01:36:54,760 --> 01:36:56,960
Speaker 13: he gets to humiliate her. What she wants is something

2049
01:36:57,000 --> 01:36:59,840
Speaker 13: she can come back and let, you know, Jocelyn Benson

2050
01:36:59,920 --> 01:37:02,040
Speaker 13: or the other candidate's run on for her as a

2051
01:37:02,200 --> 01:37:05,160
Speaker 13: for what the Democrats want to hear though Democrats who

2052
01:37:05,160 --> 01:37:07,880
Speaker 13: are most active right now were very sincere that they

2053
01:37:07,920 --> 01:37:10,880
Speaker 13: thought in twenty twenty four democracy was at risks. They

2054
01:37:10,880 --> 01:37:13,240
Speaker 13: think right now democracy is at risk. And if they

2055
01:37:13,240 --> 01:37:16,439
Speaker 13: see a Democrat making nice at all with Trump there

2056
01:37:16,479 --> 01:37:19,160
Speaker 13: against it, like Janet Mills got, she's not running for

2057
01:37:19,200 --> 01:37:21,960
Speaker 13: anything else. Janet Mills in Maine got like the reason

2058
01:37:21,960 --> 01:37:23,600
Speaker 13: there was so much of a discussion about her was

2059
01:37:23,640 --> 01:37:27,600
Speaker 13: because when she did not have decorum, when Trump was

2060
01:37:27,600 --> 01:37:30,720
Speaker 13: calling her out, she responded, She responded to him, and

2061
01:37:30,760 --> 01:37:33,000
Speaker 13: then he punished her state for it. Is it good

2062
01:37:33,040 --> 01:37:35,680
Speaker 13: for Maine that he is punishing her state? Probably not.

2063
01:37:36,080 --> 01:37:39,200
Speaker 13: And so I'm trying not trying to separate these two conversations.

2064
01:37:39,240 --> 01:37:41,679
Speaker 13: But Wittmer's doing what Democrats do not want a governor

2065
01:37:41,720 --> 01:37:43,960
Speaker 13: to do. It might help her party, and that if

2066
01:37:43,960 --> 01:37:45,920
Speaker 13: that's what she's doing, she's not running for president, She's

2067
01:37:45,960 --> 01:37:48,400
Speaker 13: trying to put her party in a good position. That'll

2068
01:37:48,400 --> 01:37:50,160
Speaker 13: pay off for Democrats. They'd be easier for them to

2069
01:37:50,200 --> 01:37:53,519
Speaker 13: wish Michigan if they control secretary of state, president sorry,

2070
01:37:53,520 --> 01:37:56,360
Speaker 13: governor in twenty twenty eight. Then if they don't, do

2071
01:37:56,400 --> 01:37:59,400
Speaker 13: you think she wants to run less and less.

2072
01:37:59,880 --> 01:38:00,240
Speaker 4: I think.

2073
01:38:00,240 --> 01:38:02,080
Speaker 13: So she's done the things you would do, which is

2074
01:38:02,160 --> 01:38:04,519
Speaker 13: a pack, she's towd around the country, she wrote a book,

2075
01:38:05,479 --> 01:38:08,799
Speaker 13: but it's not I wouldn't say any any female Democrat

2076
01:38:08,840 --> 01:38:11,160
Speaker 13: looks at the looks at their aftermath and says they

2077
01:38:11,200 --> 01:38:13,559
Speaker 13: won't nominate a woman next time. I do think that

2078
01:38:13,560 --> 01:38:16,400
Speaker 13: that is part of the conversation, part of the conversation

2079
01:38:16,439 --> 01:38:18,760
Speaker 13: democrats had. I heard it when I was at the

2080
01:38:19,360 --> 01:38:22,519
Speaker 13: Fighting Oligarchy rallies with Bernie and AOC, because I was

2081
01:38:22,520 --> 01:38:23,960
Speaker 13: looking to talk to people when I was at the

2082
01:38:24,040 --> 01:38:26,280
Speaker 13: rallies who were not diehard fans. They look like they

2083
01:38:26,320 --> 01:38:28,479
Speaker 13: hadn't shown up, and indeed they hadn't shown up at

2084
01:38:28,479 --> 01:38:30,559
Speaker 13: a Bernie rally, and I found people who were Biden,

2085
01:38:30,640 --> 01:38:32,600
Speaker 13: Warren or whatever voters, and that was the first thing

2086
01:38:32,640 --> 01:38:34,400
Speaker 13: they said aout AOC. I love her, but a woman

2087
01:38:34,400 --> 01:38:36,720
Speaker 13: can't win. And I do think that is part of

2088
01:38:36,880 --> 01:38:39,720
Speaker 13: that's that's in the air right now with Democrats. Is

2089
01:38:39,720 --> 01:38:41,679
Speaker 13: she now saying I'm never going to run for president?

2090
01:38:42,479 --> 01:38:45,360
Speaker 13: Maybe not, but I think it's it's it's clearly less

2091
01:38:45,360 --> 01:38:49,040
Speaker 13: in her front of vision than it is for Pritzker Shapiro,

2092
01:38:49,439 --> 01:38:53,679
Speaker 13: who every Democrat tells them that they they have potential,

2093
01:38:53,720 --> 01:38:56,920
Speaker 13: they run for president with Whitmer. She is wounded by

2094
01:38:56,920 --> 01:38:58,080
Speaker 13: what happened in twenty twenty four.

2095
01:38:59,120 --> 01:39:00,840
Speaker 1: So the last one we have here on our list

2096
01:39:01,080 --> 01:39:04,400
Speaker 1: is Governor Tim Wallas, of course, was the vice presidential pick,

2097
01:39:04,720 --> 01:39:09,080
Speaker 1: who you know, Republicans absolutely hate this guy. Think he's

2098
01:39:09,120 --> 01:39:12,439
Speaker 1: a total flaw, disaster, terrible choice of the ticket. Democrats,

2099
01:39:12,479 --> 01:39:14,599
Speaker 1: including myself, still have a lot of affection for him,

2100
01:39:15,400 --> 01:39:18,040
Speaker 1: think that he has talent, think that certainly the agenda

2101
01:39:18,040 --> 01:39:20,120
Speaker 1: in Minnesota is something that you know, he should be

2102
01:39:20,160 --> 01:39:23,000
Speaker 1: proud of and something Democrats should have leaned into. More So,

2103
01:39:23,640 --> 01:39:26,680
Speaker 1: he referred to this clip earlier. He recently, he's been

2104
01:39:26,680 --> 01:39:29,479
Speaker 1: doing a lot and one of the things that he

2105
01:39:29,520 --> 01:39:32,320
Speaker 1: asserted recently is that, you know, he was brought onto

2106
01:39:32,439 --> 01:39:35,080
Speaker 1: the ticket to basically be able to code switch and

2107
01:39:35,120 --> 01:39:36,120
Speaker 1: talk to white men.

2108
01:39:36,200 --> 01:39:37,360
Speaker 3: Let's go ahead and take a listen to that.

2109
01:39:37,600 --> 01:39:40,439
Speaker 21: I knew I was on the ticket. I would argue

2110
01:39:40,439 --> 01:39:42,720
Speaker 21: because we did a lot of amazing progressive things in

2111
01:39:42,760 --> 01:39:45,400
Speaker 21: Minnesota that improved people's lives. But I also was on

2112
01:39:45,439 --> 01:39:49,360
Speaker 21: the ticket quite honestly, you know, because I could code

2113
01:39:49,400 --> 01:39:52,800
Speaker 21: talk to white guys watching football fixing their truck during

2114
01:39:52,920 --> 01:39:54,559
Speaker 21: that that I could put them at ease.

2115
01:39:54,600 --> 01:39:55,000
Speaker 17: I was the.

2116
01:39:54,920 --> 01:39:57,960
Speaker 21: Permission structure to say, look, you can do this and.

2117
01:39:57,960 --> 01:39:58,479
Speaker 4: Vote for this.

2118
01:39:58,720 --> 01:40:01,120
Speaker 3: So what did you make of that clip? And it's important?

2119
01:40:01,160 --> 01:40:04,879
Speaker 13: Yeah, I hope postishs don't stop being honest because that

2120
01:40:04,960 --> 01:40:08,760
Speaker 13: clip has not played well. He was doing what some

2121
01:40:08,840 --> 01:40:11,240
Speaker 13: politicians do, which is they've read. He's read about what

2122
01:40:11,320 --> 01:40:13,360
Speaker 13: happened in the campaign. He's in repeating back some of

2123
01:40:13,400 --> 01:40:15,880
Speaker 13: what he's heard since then. The word permission structure, term,

2124
01:40:15,720 --> 01:40:19,000
Speaker 13: permission structure, very good poly side term. I use it

2125
01:40:19,000 --> 01:40:22,479
Speaker 13: all the time. You're the usual role for candidates or

2126
01:40:22,600 --> 01:40:24,960
Speaker 13: governors is don't use that jargon.

2127
01:40:26,120 --> 01:40:27,599
Speaker 4: Say code talk or code talk.

2128
01:40:27,720 --> 01:40:29,559
Speaker 13: But I think he was responded. It was at Harvard

2129
01:40:29,600 --> 01:40:32,639
Speaker 13: i IOP audience, and he was in that. He was honestly.

2130
01:40:32,640 --> 01:40:34,720
Speaker 13: That's a sign that he's not thinking what's my next

2131
01:40:34,720 --> 01:40:37,360
Speaker 13: step for president? Because he's just very bluntly answering these questions.

2132
01:40:37,400 --> 01:40:39,160
Speaker 13: And I talked to him on some of the one

2133
01:40:39,200 --> 01:40:40,800
Speaker 13: of the town hall stops he did as he's been

2134
01:40:40,840 --> 01:40:43,160
Speaker 13: going these districts and have events, and he's not being

2135
01:40:43,240 --> 01:40:45,640
Speaker 13: very strategic. Here is our plan. It's a combination of

2136
01:40:46,160 --> 01:40:48,599
Speaker 13: he will vent a little bit about why not vent

2137
01:40:49,320 --> 01:40:52,439
Speaker 13: self analyzed why they lost, which is not he's not

2138
01:40:52,520 --> 01:40:54,400
Speaker 13: doing here's what we did wrong and how I figured

2139
01:40:54,439 --> 01:40:56,519
Speaker 13: it out. It's a bit like Evin Newsome. I don't

2140
01:40:56,520 --> 01:40:58,479
Speaker 13: know how he got it wrong. They have they have

2141
01:40:58,560 --> 01:41:02,599
Speaker 13: a similar course about the last campaign, which is I'm

2142
01:41:02,600 --> 01:41:04,840
Speaker 13: still figuring this out, folks, you tell me what went wrong.

2143
01:41:05,439 --> 01:41:08,240
Speaker 13: And he mentioned the record Minnesota a little bit. That

2144
01:41:08,600 --> 01:41:10,840
Speaker 13: is a difference that's already emerging is Pritzker will talk

2145
01:41:10,840 --> 01:41:14,280
Speaker 13: about the progressive record in Illinois, but sheer Camp because

2146
01:41:14,400 --> 01:41:18,240
Speaker 13: Republicans run legislature in Kentucky. His record is much more

2147
01:41:18,240 --> 01:41:20,920
Speaker 13: about job creation and stopping some things Republicans wanted to

2148
01:41:20,960 --> 01:41:23,000
Speaker 13: do or vetoing it and not stopping it like some

2149
01:41:23,080 --> 01:41:26,000
Speaker 13: of the trans legislation. And that's kind of the difference

2150
01:41:26,000 --> 01:41:29,519
Speaker 13: in this field, is that Shapiro and right now, because

2151
01:41:29,520 --> 01:41:32,960
Speaker 13: of the split in Michigan, Whitmer and Bisher are talking

2152
01:41:33,000 --> 01:41:37,839
Speaker 13: about working with Republicans. Pritzker is talking about fighting, fighting

2153
01:41:37,880 --> 01:41:41,519
Speaker 13: Republicans and winning for Democrats and specifically what's the policy

2154
01:41:41,560 --> 01:41:44,000
Speaker 13: I've done. That is already a difference because it's not

2155
01:41:44,040 --> 01:41:45,720
Speaker 13: going to be a very Senator heavy field. I don't

2156
01:41:45,760 --> 01:41:47,680
Speaker 13: think in twenty twenty eight it is going to be

2157
01:41:47,760 --> 01:41:51,400
Speaker 13: people who had this experience governing different skill level. You're

2158
01:41:51,439 --> 01:41:55,880
Speaker 13: not surrounded by Washington reported all day. This has been

2159
01:41:55,920 --> 01:41:58,760
Speaker 13: a problem even for Walls, who did have struggle a

2160
01:41:58,800 --> 01:42:00,640
Speaker 13: little bit when he was at a high level of

2161
01:42:00,680 --> 01:42:04,400
Speaker 13: competition and interview. But that's already a difference you're seeing

2162
01:42:04,479 --> 01:42:06,599
Speaker 13: is who can talk about what they did versus who

2163
01:42:06,600 --> 01:42:09,320
Speaker 13: can talk about how they fight Republicans. That is an anomaly,

2164
01:42:09,439 --> 01:42:13,280
Speaker 13: is Tim Wall saying to a by a friendly audience, Yeah,

2165
01:42:13,520 --> 01:42:15,720
Speaker 13: here's how the campaign thought about it. And the final

2166
01:42:15,760 --> 01:42:17,640
Speaker 13: part say on that you do hear no one is

2167
01:42:18,439 --> 01:42:22,000
Speaker 13: as we get from it from that campaign. Democrats are

2168
01:42:22,080 --> 01:42:26,559
Speaker 13: more comfortable blaming the very consultant, heavy thinking, the very

2169
01:42:26,640 --> 01:42:29,439
Speaker 13: risk averse thinking that they engaged in. And they're not

2170
01:42:29,560 --> 01:42:32,240
Speaker 13: naming people saying this strategist is bad, this one's terrible.

2171
01:42:32,479 --> 01:42:36,080
Speaker 13: They are saying that campaign was very thrown together in

2172
01:42:36,160 --> 01:42:39,280
Speaker 13: phony and when Biden was the ticket, dishonest about well

2173
01:42:39,400 --> 01:42:41,320
Speaker 13: how good Biden was on the stump, and we can't

2174
01:42:41,360 --> 01:42:43,120
Speaker 13: do that again. And that is how you start to

2175
01:42:43,120 --> 01:42:46,479
Speaker 13: get there by saying by awkward phrases like code talk.

2176
01:42:47,320 --> 01:42:49,760
Speaker 13: I appreciate that as a reporter that you're starting to

2177
01:42:49,760 --> 01:42:52,680
Speaker 13: say the party had a very lego like view of

2178
01:42:52,680 --> 01:42:54,639
Speaker 13: the electorate, that we need to add some things together,

2179
01:42:54,720 --> 01:42:57,320
Speaker 13: and that is wrong. So I think it's sophisticated what

2180
01:42:57,360 --> 01:42:59,679
Speaker 13: he's saying. Will it help him in a poll next week?

2181
01:43:00,240 --> 01:43:01,800
Speaker 13: But that's how were not somewhere's.

2182
01:43:01,439 --> 01:43:03,160
Speaker 1: Head at And is it your sense that AOC is

2183
01:43:03,160 --> 01:43:04,000
Speaker 1: building up for a run.

2184
01:43:04,479 --> 01:43:06,439
Speaker 13: I wouldn't have ever thought that. I always thought that

2185
01:43:06,520 --> 01:43:09,200
Speaker 13: it made more sense for her to run for Senate.

2186
01:43:09,280 --> 01:43:11,479
Speaker 13: Not that I'm not that I'm like giving her advice,

2187
01:43:12,040 --> 01:43:17,799
Speaker 13: but because because what she is doing now is because

2188
01:43:17,800 --> 01:43:20,679
Speaker 13: she's polling well in these very early polls, because people

2189
01:43:20,680 --> 01:43:22,400
Speaker 13: are talking about her, she has the ability to do

2190
01:43:22,479 --> 01:43:24,960
Speaker 13: what Sanders did in two campaigns, which is drive the

2191
01:43:25,000 --> 01:43:27,800
Speaker 13: conversation to progressive policy. Because if there's no one like

2192
01:43:27,840 --> 01:43:29,799
Speaker 13: that you saw this in twenty twenty four with Biden,

2193
01:43:30,000 --> 01:43:32,360
Speaker 13: if there's not a primary, then then you are not

2194
01:43:32,439 --> 01:43:35,400
Speaker 13: having a policy discussion. You're responding to Republicans, You're not

2195
01:43:35,640 --> 01:43:37,720
Speaker 13: having a discussion aside the party. You're responding to op

2196
01:43:37,840 --> 01:43:41,120
Speaker 13: eds and by James Carville or something. So for that

2197
01:43:41,280 --> 01:43:43,640
Speaker 13: role and Princeer's not doing all of that, but she

2198
01:43:43,640 --> 01:43:46,439
Speaker 13: hasn't really done that she has. This is the paradox

2199
01:43:46,439 --> 01:43:48,720
Speaker 13: of AOC right now, as she's gotten more popular, she

2200
01:43:48,840 --> 01:43:50,840
Speaker 13: is not saying and here is a bold new Green

2201
01:43:50,880 --> 01:43:52,640
Speaker 13: New Deal proposal that I have that I wanted to

2202
01:43:52,680 --> 01:43:56,479
Speaker 13: talk about. She is attacking Trump. So I think if

2203
01:43:56,479 --> 01:43:58,679
Speaker 13: she sees a way to change the party, that would

2204
01:43:58,680 --> 01:44:00,599
Speaker 13: make sense for her to run for president. She's doing great.

2205
01:44:00,760 --> 01:44:04,080
Speaker 13: It's week by week how she's responding. But we saw

2206
01:44:04,200 --> 01:44:07,320
Speaker 13: yesterday Lee Zelden saying the Green New Deal is dead,

2207
01:44:07,720 --> 01:44:09,880
Speaker 13: and as the one of the sherpas of the Green

2208
01:44:09,920 --> 01:44:12,320
Speaker 13: New Deal in the Congress, AOC wasn't responding to that.

2209
01:44:12,360 --> 01:44:14,280
Speaker 13: She was talking about whether she'd be on oversight and

2210
01:44:14,320 --> 01:44:15,760
Speaker 13: if that's a good role for her to have to

2211
01:44:15,800 --> 01:44:16,360
Speaker 13: fight Trump.

2212
01:44:16,400 --> 01:44:16,680
Speaker 9: It is.

2213
01:44:16,960 --> 01:44:20,639
Speaker 13: She's very interested in had Democrats being credible and people

2214
01:44:20,880 --> 01:44:22,560
Speaker 13: looking at them as a party that actually fights the

2215
01:44:22,600 --> 01:44:25,599
Speaker 13: super rich, et cetera. So if she sees a way

2216
01:44:25,640 --> 01:44:27,840
Speaker 13: to do that for his presidential campaign, sure, but she's

2217
01:44:27,840 --> 01:44:30,160
Speaker 13: not doing that right now. And that's been been interesting

2218
01:44:30,200 --> 01:44:33,120
Speaker 13: to me because getting into the discourse, change the discourse

2219
01:44:33,160 --> 01:44:35,800
Speaker 13: if you're not Donald Trump is pretty tricky. She can

2220
01:44:35,840 --> 01:44:38,080
Speaker 13: do it, and she hasn't really been doing it right.

2221
01:44:38,800 --> 01:44:41,200
Speaker 3: Very interesting, Dave, thank you so much. Great to see you.

2222
01:44:41,280 --> 01:44:41,599
Speaker 13: Thank you.

2223
01:44:41,800 --> 01:44:42,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, a pleasure.

2224
01:44:45,520 --> 01:44:48,720
Speaker 5: Mark Andresen made comments on a new edition of The

2225
01:44:48,720 --> 01:44:53,200
Speaker 5: Ben and Mark Show about which particular professions might be

2226
01:44:53,200 --> 01:44:58,479
Speaker 5: best equipped to handle the oncoming the incoming onslaught of

2227
01:44:58,680 --> 01:45:03,040
Speaker 5: job loss from Jenner of artificial intelligence, and you know, Crystal,

2228
01:45:03,080 --> 01:45:05,120
Speaker 5: it's it's pretty convenient what he landed on. So let's

2229
01:45:05,160 --> 01:45:07,000
Speaker 5: take a look at this clip. Let's roll of the

2230
01:45:07,040 --> 01:45:07,960
Speaker 5: first element here.

2231
01:45:08,280 --> 01:45:11,559
Speaker 22: So the great vcs have a success you know, record

2232
01:45:11,560 --> 01:45:13,360
Speaker 22: of getting i don't know, two out of ten or

2233
01:45:13,360 --> 01:45:15,840
Speaker 22: something in the great companies of the decade, right, and

2234
01:45:15,880 --> 01:45:17,800
Speaker 22: so you know, if it was a science, you could

2235
01:45:17,800 --> 01:45:19,560
Speaker 22: eventually have somebody who just like dials it and he

2236
01:45:19,560 --> 01:45:21,920
Speaker 22: gets eight out of ten. But in in in the

2237
01:45:21,960 --> 01:45:25,000
Speaker 22: real world, it's not like that. Yeah, you know, it's

2238
01:45:25,000 --> 01:45:27,320
Speaker 22: just it's you're you're in the fluke business. And so

2239
01:45:27,360 --> 01:45:30,200
Speaker 22: there's there's this and there's a there's an intangibility to it.

2240
01:45:30,200 --> 01:45:33,640
Speaker 22: There's a taste aspect the human relationship, aspect of the psychology.

2241
01:45:34,000 --> 01:45:36,040
Speaker 22: By the way, a lot of it is psychological analysis,

2242
01:45:36,080 --> 01:45:38,799
Speaker 22: like who are these people? How do they react under pressure?

2243
01:45:38,800 --> 01:45:40,519
Speaker 22: How do you keep them from falling apart? How do

2244
01:45:40,560 --> 01:45:42,040
Speaker 22: you you know, how do you keep them going crazy?

2245
01:45:42,040 --> 01:45:43,799
Speaker 22: How do you keep from going crazy yourself?

2246
01:45:45,280 --> 01:45:45,400
Speaker 3: Uh?

2247
01:45:45,600 --> 01:45:47,800
Speaker 22: You know, you end up being a psychologist half the time.

2248
01:45:49,000 --> 01:45:51,640
Speaker 22: And so like it it is possible. I don't want

2249
01:45:51,680 --> 01:45:53,680
Speaker 22: to be definitive, but like it's possible that that is

2250
01:45:53,760 --> 01:45:56,880
Speaker 22: quite literally timeless. And when you know, when the ais

2251
01:45:56,880 --> 01:45:58,439
Speaker 22: are doing everything else, like that may be one of

2252
01:45:58,479 --> 01:46:00,519
Speaker 22: the last remaining fields that the people are filing.

2253
01:46:00,680 --> 01:46:04,120
Speaker 4: Crystal is absolutely losing it. We could get this. It's

2254
01:46:04,240 --> 01:46:05,160
Speaker 4: very convenient.

2255
01:46:05,320 --> 01:46:10,120
Speaker 5: It's very convenient that vcs will be those who emerge

2256
01:46:10,200 --> 01:46:14,200
Speaker 5: unscathed from the onslaught of job blast from AI Crystal.

2257
01:46:14,280 --> 01:46:17,320
Speaker 5: And you again not wrong, right that there is some

2258
01:46:17,479 --> 01:46:20,920
Speaker 5: element of like subjectivity involved in venture capitalism that you

2259
01:46:21,000 --> 01:46:25,599
Speaker 5: can't replace with machines. And it's just there are also

2260
01:46:25,720 --> 01:46:29,080
Speaker 5: a lot of other professions that we think we can

2261
01:46:29,120 --> 01:46:33,040
Speaker 5: replace with machines that actually we probably can't fully replace

2262
01:46:33,200 --> 01:46:36,360
Speaker 5: with machines. But it's sort of amusing that Andresen sees

2263
01:46:36,479 --> 01:46:40,439
Speaker 5: venture capitalism as the one that will probably be spared

2264
01:46:40,439 --> 01:46:41,960
Speaker 5: because it's simply too valuable.

2265
01:46:41,640 --> 01:46:44,880
Speaker 1: See, I think it's the total opposite. Like I think

2266
01:46:45,000 --> 01:46:47,040
Speaker 1: vcs would be one of the easiest things to replace

2267
01:46:47,040 --> 01:46:50,400
Speaker 1: with robots, right right, because the thing is like if

2268
01:46:50,439 --> 01:46:54,080
Speaker 1: you chumans, you know, if you have a relationship with

2269
01:46:54,120 --> 01:46:54,679
Speaker 1: the person.

2270
01:46:54,880 --> 01:46:56,679
Speaker 3: And by the way, a lot.

2271
01:46:56,520 --> 01:46:58,800
Speaker 1: Of these vcs, the way they invest is basically like,

2272
01:46:58,880 --> 01:47:01,000
Speaker 1: oh I know this person from another deed, it's very

2273
01:47:01,040 --> 01:47:04,919
Speaker 1: relationship in network case, which makes you inherently very biased

2274
01:47:04,960 --> 01:47:05,880
Speaker 1: in that process.

2275
01:47:06,080 --> 01:47:08,200
Speaker 3: So I think this is one of the areas.

2276
01:47:07,800 --> 01:47:10,519
Speaker 1: That is, you know, that is ripe to be taken

2277
01:47:10,560 --> 01:47:13,880
Speaker 1: over by robots who can just like crunch the numbers,

2278
01:47:14,160 --> 01:47:17,960
Speaker 1: what is the business done, and be able to much

2279
01:47:18,000 --> 01:47:21,680
Speaker 1: more effectively decide which ones are likely to succeed in

2280
01:47:21,720 --> 01:47:22,280
Speaker 1: which ones are not.

2281
01:47:22,400 --> 01:47:23,960
Speaker 5: Well, this is why I think it's funny, because that's

2282
01:47:23,960 --> 01:47:28,400
Speaker 5: generally my perspective on generative AI, Yeah, is that like

2283
01:47:28,479 --> 01:47:31,479
Speaker 5: there are things that can be done without human involvement

2284
01:47:31,520 --> 01:47:34,519
Speaker 5: that you can mostly outsource to these machines.

2285
01:47:34,560 --> 01:47:35,599
Speaker 4: But I just use the word.

2286
01:47:35,439 --> 01:47:39,400
Speaker 5: Mostly because I'm pretty sympathetic to the idea, whether it's

2287
01:47:39,439 --> 01:47:42,960
Speaker 5: a VC or journalism that's self interested of course, but

2288
01:47:43,560 --> 01:47:44,920
Speaker 5: you know, all kinds of difference.

2289
01:47:45,000 --> 01:47:47,559
Speaker 1: There is timeless it's timeless. I don't think you can

2290
01:47:47,600 --> 01:47:48,000
Speaker 1: replace it.

2291
01:47:48,080 --> 01:47:48,799
Speaker 4: You're replaceable.

2292
01:47:48,800 --> 01:47:50,800
Speaker 3: I think pretty much everything else you can replace, but

2293
01:47:50,880 --> 01:47:51,240
Speaker 3: not us.

2294
01:47:51,840 --> 01:47:56,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's we did make a I say we.

2295
01:47:56,520 --> 01:47:58,800
Speaker 5: I did make an image for a group chat of

2296
01:47:59,439 --> 01:48:04,439
Speaker 5: babys and glasses and a tiny suit yesterday. So those

2297
01:48:04,439 --> 01:48:06,240
Speaker 5: are there are some things that they can do that

2298
01:48:06,280 --> 01:48:09,960
Speaker 5: they get right. The machines can do really good work, Crystal.

2299
01:48:10,000 --> 01:48:12,280
Speaker 5: But in all seriousness, I think the human touch is

2300
01:48:12,280 --> 01:48:14,320
Speaker 5: important to way more professions than a lot of people

2301
01:48:14,360 --> 01:48:17,680
Speaker 5: who are super bullish on AI realize. And so I'm

2302
01:48:17,680 --> 01:48:20,880
Speaker 5: actually sympathetic to the point that venture capitalism has a

2303
01:48:20,960 --> 01:48:24,439
Speaker 5: human element that's important, just like I'm sympathetic to most

2304
01:48:24,479 --> 01:48:27,120
Speaker 5: jobs having a human element that's important. Because even if

2305
01:48:27,160 --> 01:48:29,640
Speaker 5: it's true, I think it is true that VC is

2306
01:48:29,680 --> 01:48:32,200
Speaker 5: probably one of those areas that you could do so

2307
01:48:32,400 --> 01:48:33,639
Speaker 5: much of it with.

2308
01:48:33,800 --> 01:48:34,880
Speaker 4: The generative AI.

2309
01:48:36,160 --> 01:48:38,880
Speaker 5: I don't think any of these careers should have the

2310
01:48:39,560 --> 01:48:41,320
Speaker 5: many of these careers should actually have a lot of

2311
01:48:41,320 --> 01:48:44,719
Speaker 5: this outsourced without a significant chunk of the human element remaining.

2312
01:48:44,720 --> 01:48:46,920
Speaker 5: I don't even think it's good for efficiency, to be honest,

2313
01:48:46,920 --> 01:48:49,719
Speaker 5: if we define efficiency as also providing for the common

2314
01:48:49,720 --> 01:48:52,920
Speaker 5: good in an efficient way. So it's sort of a

2315
01:48:52,960 --> 01:48:55,960
Speaker 5: funny like two sides of the coin, or you know,

2316
01:48:56,160 --> 01:48:58,760
Speaker 5: it's almost a catch twenty two with Indresin's point there,

2317
01:48:58,760 --> 01:49:00,680
Speaker 5: because I do, like yes, like.

2318
01:49:00,720 --> 01:49:02,040
Speaker 4: Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

2319
01:49:02,560 --> 01:49:05,040
Speaker 5: But thank you for you know, saying that you, as

2320
01:49:05,080 --> 01:49:08,600
Speaker 5: a person who is helping orchestrate this mass transformation of

2321
01:49:08,640 --> 01:49:11,799
Speaker 5: the labor force, will be protected or should be protected,

2322
01:49:11,960 --> 01:49:13,160
Speaker 5: right because you're just.

2323
01:49:13,200 --> 01:49:16,040
Speaker 1: That smart, because he recognizes his own humanity, even if

2324
01:49:16,160 --> 01:49:19,560
Speaker 1: exactly recognize anyone else's humanity exactly, and how essential that

2325
01:49:19,760 --> 01:49:22,439
Speaker 1: could could be to you know, society, the.

2326
01:49:22,400 --> 01:49:23,000
Speaker 3: World, et cetera.

2327
01:49:23,040 --> 01:49:26,439
Speaker 1: Because it's also not like you know, okay, these guys

2328
01:49:26,439 --> 01:49:28,880
Speaker 1: will say out in the open, our goal is to

2329
01:49:29,160 --> 01:49:32,599
Speaker 1: effectively replace all human labor, yep, and we'll talk openly

2330
01:49:32,760 --> 01:49:35,800
Speaker 1: about how it's going to require a complete change of

2331
01:49:35,880 --> 01:49:39,760
Speaker 1: the social contract. And but you know, but they're just

2332
01:49:39,800 --> 01:49:43,240
Speaker 1: forging ahead without actually laying any of the groundwork for

2333
01:49:43,280 --> 01:49:47,680
Speaker 1: this purported massive change and destruction of the requirement for

2334
01:49:47,720 --> 01:49:50,920
Speaker 1: any human labor and upending of the social contract.

2335
01:49:50,600 --> 01:49:51,040
Speaker 3: Et cetera.

2336
01:49:51,400 --> 01:49:54,960
Speaker 1: They're just pushing forward with no breaks on whatsoever.

2337
01:49:56,040 --> 01:49:56,280
Speaker 3: You know.

2338
01:49:56,320 --> 01:49:58,559
Speaker 1: And by the way, I mean, there is something really

2339
01:49:59,439 --> 01:50:02,640
Speaker 1: very not only anti human, but Naomi Climb makes this

2340
01:50:02,840 --> 01:50:06,519
Speaker 1: makes this case that it's like also anti creation because

2341
01:50:06,560 --> 01:50:10,759
Speaker 1: you are feeding into these AI machines, all of these

2342
01:50:10,880 --> 01:50:15,720
Speaker 1: like you know resources that the world, the planet, the

2343
01:50:15,840 --> 01:50:18,320
Speaker 1: you know, the the beings that live on this planet,

2344
01:50:18,400 --> 01:50:21,240
Speaker 1: not just humans need to be able to thrive in

2345
01:50:21,320 --> 01:50:23,040
Speaker 1: order to create our own replacements.

2346
01:50:23,560 --> 01:50:25,440
Speaker 3: This sort of like mirror world.

2347
01:50:25,920 --> 01:50:30,000
Speaker 1: Replacement for all of us, but in any case, not

2348
01:50:30,040 --> 01:50:33,160
Speaker 1: replacement for him, because he is essential and could never

2349
01:50:33,240 --> 01:50:36,000
Speaker 1: be replaced by these machines that are essential work. Yeah,

2350
01:50:36,000 --> 01:50:39,040
Speaker 1: he's the essential worker, you know. I want to I

2351
01:50:39,040 --> 01:50:43,320
Speaker 1: want to actually skip forward to E three because Derek

2352
01:50:43,360 --> 01:50:48,200
Speaker 1: Thompson wrote a piece tracking the employment data for college graduates,

2353
01:50:48,720 --> 01:50:52,240
Speaker 1: and there are some potential signs there that AI is

2354
01:50:52,320 --> 01:50:56,800
Speaker 1: already starting to hit in terms of eliminating the need

2355
01:50:56,880 --> 01:50:59,960
Speaker 1: for some college graduates. He says, something alarming is happy

2356
01:51:00,240 --> 01:51:02,960
Speaker 1: to the job market, and some of the data that

2357
01:51:03,000 --> 01:51:05,439
Speaker 1: he relies on here is the same that we've been

2358
01:51:05,479 --> 01:51:09,040
Speaker 1: looking at at how much the how many college grads

2359
01:51:09,040 --> 01:51:11,280
Speaker 1: are applying to law school. Now we read that as

2360
01:51:11,320 --> 01:51:14,160
Speaker 1: a recession indicator of like, you know, if you are

2361
01:51:14,200 --> 01:51:16,639
Speaker 1: graduating from college and things are not looking too great

2362
01:51:16,720 --> 01:51:18,800
Speaker 1: with the whole trade war situation. You're like, you know what,

2363
01:51:19,280 --> 01:51:22,240
Speaker 1: let me postpone my entry into the job force by

2364
01:51:22,600 --> 01:51:25,639
Speaker 1: going into law school, and you know, see how things

2365
01:51:25,680 --> 01:51:27,759
Speaker 1: are in a few years, see if things have gotten better.

2366
01:51:28,280 --> 01:51:33,120
Speaker 1: But he is tracking what is called the grad grad gap.

2367
01:51:34,080 --> 01:51:37,759
Speaker 1: The total employment might as recent grad unemployment. So how

2368
01:51:37,840 --> 01:51:40,360
Speaker 1: much do you benefit from having a college degree? And

2369
01:51:40,400 --> 01:51:42,800
Speaker 1: basically that metric has fallen off a cliff in terms

2370
01:51:42,840 --> 01:51:46,120
Speaker 1: of job prospects for new college graduates. And one of

2371
01:51:46,160 --> 01:51:49,840
Speaker 1: the theoretical possibilities for why that is the case is

2372
01:51:49,880 --> 01:51:54,320
Speaker 1: that you know, instead of hiring twenty graduates, maybe you

2373
01:51:54,600 --> 01:51:57,600
Speaker 1: get too and chat GPT because a lot of what

2374
01:51:57,680 --> 01:52:01,280
Speaker 1: new college graduates do going into collar jobs is this

2375
01:52:01,360 --> 01:52:05,679
Speaker 1: sort of like you know, spreadsheet jocking and pulling data

2376
01:52:05,720 --> 01:52:09,479
Speaker 1: and doing like the work analysis for more senior people

2377
01:52:09,520 --> 01:52:12,559
Speaker 1: at whatever company that you're at. And that is the

2378
01:52:12,600 --> 01:52:15,719
Speaker 1: sort of thing that you could easily see chat GPT,

2379
01:52:15,840 --> 01:52:20,759
Speaker 1: your GROP or whatever helping to provide that initial research

2380
01:52:20,920 --> 01:52:21,920
Speaker 1: and analysis.

2381
01:52:22,439 --> 01:52:24,679
Speaker 3: So, you know, it's not clear that that's.

2382
01:52:24,520 --> 01:52:27,280
Speaker 1: What's going on here, but it is very possible that

2383
01:52:27,320 --> 01:52:30,559
Speaker 1: we're already seeing in the data, the way that AI

2384
01:52:30,680 --> 01:52:32,320
Speaker 1: is going to impact the labor force.

2385
01:52:32,600 --> 01:52:36,839
Speaker 5: Yeah, and the law school we talked about this yesterday.

2386
01:52:36,880 --> 01:52:40,960
Speaker 5: The law school applications being up is quite that's a

2387
01:52:41,040 --> 01:52:44,599
Speaker 5: stark indicator of what people are encountering. And it's graduation

2388
01:52:44,720 --> 01:52:46,360
Speaker 5: month right now, so we're going to get a whole

2389
01:52:46,439 --> 01:52:50,599
Speaker 5: flood of I think anecdotal reports and probably data too

2390
01:52:51,040 --> 01:52:54,920
Speaker 5: about where people are landing in such an uncertain environment.

2391
01:52:54,960 --> 01:52:59,960
Speaker 5: And you know, we remember as millennials how the recession

2392
01:53:00,080 --> 01:53:03,200
Speaker 5: and changed that general like that changed the general completely

2393
01:53:03,200 --> 01:53:05,880
Speaker 5: shaped our generation, shaped our politics and our culture. And

2394
01:53:06,479 --> 01:53:10,720
Speaker 5: we could be looking at another really sort of crucible

2395
01:53:11,080 --> 01:53:12,519
Speaker 5: type moment for gen Z.

2396
01:53:12,800 --> 01:53:13,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, no doubt about it.

2397
01:53:14,000 --> 01:53:16,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, he says, today's college graduates are entering an economy

2398
01:53:16,880 --> 01:53:19,679
Speaker 1: that is relatively worse for young college grads than any

2399
01:53:19,720 --> 01:53:23,000
Speaker 1: month on record going back for decades, So even worse

2400
01:53:23,240 --> 01:53:26,880
Speaker 1: than the environment that you know, millennials graduated into the

2401
01:53:27,160 --> 01:53:27,960
Speaker 1: financial crisis.

2402
01:53:28,120 --> 01:53:32,040
Speaker 5: And when there's uncertainty, and yeah, when there's when there's

2403
01:53:32,080 --> 01:53:36,439
Speaker 5: uncertainty at the level that there is now, you're not adding, right,

2404
01:53:36,520 --> 01:53:39,280
Speaker 5: You're you're sort of risk averse and you're staying with

2405
01:53:39,320 --> 01:53:42,439
Speaker 5: what you have and so it's it's incredibly tough right now.

2406
01:53:42,560 --> 01:53:44,519
Speaker 5: So it was already actually pretty hard based on how

2407
01:53:44,560 --> 01:53:47,040
Speaker 5: the later labor forces changed and based on what people

2408
01:53:47,040 --> 01:53:48,599
Speaker 5: are actually studying in college.

2409
01:53:48,680 --> 01:53:50,880
Speaker 4: But this is really difficult.

2410
01:53:51,120 --> 01:53:53,559
Speaker 1: One other piece of this that we just wanted to mention,

2411
01:53:53,680 --> 01:53:56,600
Speaker 1: which is pretty wild. Put the second element here up

2412
01:53:56,640 --> 01:54:00,200
Speaker 1: on the screen. So apparently in California, AI bots are

2413
01:54:00,240 --> 01:54:03,559
Speaker 1: now stealing millions of dollars in federal financial aid. They

2414
01:54:03,880 --> 01:54:08,040
Speaker 1: basically use AI to mass enroll in community colleges and

2415
01:54:08,120 --> 01:54:12,360
Speaker 1: then you know, pocket this like the PELL grant aid,

2416
01:54:12,800 --> 01:54:16,880
Speaker 1: and then you know, and that makes it unavailable for

2417
01:54:17,000 --> 01:54:19,760
Speaker 1: actual students. They call them the scammers are known as

2418
01:54:19,880 --> 01:54:23,960
Speaker 1: PELL runners, and they disappear after they collect their seventy

2419
01:54:23,960 --> 01:54:27,160
Speaker 1: four hundred dollars federal grant. This is with regard to

2420
01:54:27,200 --> 01:54:32,280
Speaker 1: California community colleges in particular. But you know, this is

2421
01:54:32,520 --> 01:54:37,440
Speaker 1: a pretty widespread, pretty widespread scam that's going on right now.

2422
01:54:37,480 --> 01:54:40,280
Speaker 1: As early as twenty twenty one, the Chancellor's office in

2423
01:54:40,320 --> 01:54:44,440
Speaker 1: California estimated that twenty percent of the applications they were

2424
01:54:44,480 --> 01:54:48,160
Speaker 1: receiving were fraudulent. Now increasingly sophisticated AI tools that made

2425
01:54:48,160 --> 01:54:50,960
Speaker 1: the problem worst recent data suggest around thirty four percent

2426
01:54:51,440 --> 01:54:55,600
Speaker 1: of California community college applicants are fake. Despite California allocating

2427
01:54:55,640 --> 01:54:57,800
Speaker 1: over one hundred and fifty million dollars since twenty twenty

2428
01:54:57,800 --> 01:55:01,240
Speaker 1: two towards cybersecurity help authenticate students and combat fraud at

2429
01:55:01,240 --> 01:55:04,800
Speaker 1: community colleges, gammers have successfully stolen more financial aid with

2430
01:55:04,840 --> 01:55:06,040
Speaker 1: each passing year.

2431
01:55:06,320 --> 01:55:10,360
Speaker 4: So shocking, cool, Yeah, it's the future, brave new world.

2432
01:55:10,520 --> 01:55:13,440
Speaker 1: Yes, indeed, indeed, should we talk about Alex Jones?

2433
01:55:13,800 --> 01:55:14,760
Speaker 3: Why not your fave?

2434
01:55:15,760 --> 01:55:18,360
Speaker 4: Let's do it so.

2435
01:55:18,520 --> 01:55:22,560
Speaker 1: Alex Jones recently in conversation with Nick Fuenttez, who is

2436
01:55:22,720 --> 01:55:26,520
Speaker 1: a Nazi and has been criticizing Fuontez has been like

2437
01:55:26,560 --> 01:55:31,800
Speaker 1: criticizing Trump for a while. So in any case, Alex

2438
01:55:31,880 --> 01:55:34,840
Speaker 1: Jones also waded into some of the waters of like

2439
01:55:34,960 --> 01:55:38,240
Speaker 1: beginning to a little bit timidly criticize some of what

2440
01:55:38,240 --> 01:55:38,840
Speaker 1: Trump's up to.

2441
01:55:38,920 --> 01:55:40,120
Speaker 3: Let's go ahead and take a listen to that.

2442
01:55:40,360 --> 01:55:43,000
Speaker 23: You have very high priority fifteen hundred people with a

2443
01:55:43,120 --> 01:55:46,680
Speaker 23: legal right to be here. They're being expedited, their removal

2444
01:55:47,280 --> 01:55:49,760
Speaker 23: is being expedited for no reason other than they criticized

2445
01:55:49,800 --> 01:55:52,080
Speaker 23: the fact that you know, we're supporting this foreign war.

2446
01:55:52,400 --> 01:55:53,880
Speaker 4: So I think, Oh, here's where I'm at.

2447
01:55:53,880 --> 01:55:57,560
Speaker 15: Though in general, I see the whole a lot of

2448
01:55:57,560 --> 01:56:00,640
Speaker 15: the populis conservative space spinning half the time on this,

2449
01:56:01,240 --> 01:56:03,960
Speaker 15: and I just I mean, I think it's way more dangerous.

2450
01:56:03,960 --> 01:56:06,720
Speaker 15: Trump saying we're looking to deporting citizens.

2451
01:56:06,240 --> 01:56:07,160
Speaker 4: To El salbudor.

2452
01:56:07,600 --> 01:56:11,360
Speaker 15: Now, that's some constitutional and that is really bad.

2453
01:56:12,160 --> 01:56:12,960
Speaker 13: I agree with that.

2454
01:56:14,000 --> 01:56:15,840
Speaker 23: And then again, though I don't think that's a real

2455
01:56:15,880 --> 01:56:18,080
Speaker 23: policy that hasn't happened. What is really happened.

2456
01:56:18,120 --> 01:56:19,880
Speaker 15: They're talking about using the enemy combatana to do it

2457
01:56:19,920 --> 01:56:20,640
Speaker 15: for regular crime.

2458
01:56:20,680 --> 01:56:23,760
Speaker 23: It's I don't I think that's one of those throwaway comments.

2459
01:56:24,000 --> 01:56:24,960
Speaker 4: Do you think it's him truing.

2460
01:56:25,240 --> 01:56:28,040
Speaker 23: I think they're flooding the zone with pooh like ban

2461
01:56:28,160 --> 01:56:29,640
Speaker 23: And said, I don't know if you'd swear on the show,

2462
01:56:29,720 --> 01:56:32,520
Speaker 23: but they're flooding the zone with with with a bunch

2463
01:56:32,560 --> 01:56:34,240
Speaker 23: of nonsense bullshit, so.

2464
01:56:34,600 --> 01:56:35,360
Speaker 3: Kind of interesting.

2465
01:56:35,520 --> 01:56:37,280
Speaker 1: It feels to me like there's a little bit of

2466
01:56:37,320 --> 01:56:39,880
Speaker 1: like a shell game going on here with Alex Jones

2467
01:56:39,880 --> 01:56:44,080
Speaker 1: where he is uncomfortable with like the reason Flint has

2468
01:56:44,120 --> 01:56:47,720
Speaker 1: and people aligned with him object to the detentions of

2469
01:56:47,800 --> 01:56:51,160
Speaker 1: Mosan Dowie and others who have been critical at israel

2470
01:56:51,240 --> 01:56:54,360
Speaker 1: Is because they are actual anti Semites. Yeah, and they

2471
01:56:54,400 --> 01:56:57,640
Speaker 1: actually hate Choose and so they end up in the

2472
01:56:57,720 --> 01:57:00,680
Speaker 1: right position of like, we should stand against this and

2473
01:57:00,720 --> 01:57:03,160
Speaker 1: you should be able to criticize Israel, but they do

2474
01:57:03,240 --> 01:57:07,000
Speaker 1: so for you know, actually abhorrent reasons. And Alex Jones

2475
01:57:07,000 --> 01:57:10,240
Speaker 1: doesn't really want to get cross eyes wise with that. No, so,

2476
01:57:10,560 --> 01:57:13,560
Speaker 1: but so what he says is like, we're spending too

2477
01:57:13,640 --> 01:57:17,480
Speaker 1: much time talking about this thing when what I'm really

2478
01:57:17,520 --> 01:57:20,800
Speaker 1: concerned about is the threat to deport US citizens to

2479
01:57:21,080 --> 01:57:24,600
Speaker 1: El Salvador and you know, Fuentez comes down. Oh, that's

2480
01:57:24,640 --> 01:57:26,880
Speaker 1: not really happening yet, but this is really happening. But

2481
01:57:27,040 --> 01:57:29,680
Speaker 1: in any case, kind of an interesting dynamic playing out

2482
01:57:29,680 --> 01:57:30,960
Speaker 1: there on the fringes of the right.

2483
01:57:31,200 --> 01:57:34,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, and Alex Jones posted a video last night where

2484
01:57:34,560 --> 01:57:36,960
Speaker 5: it's sort of summarized, so it says in this important breakdown,

2485
01:57:37,000 --> 01:57:39,080
Speaker 5: Alex Jones explains that his criticism of Trump on a

2486
01:57:39,080 --> 01:57:41,360
Speaker 5: few issues come from a place of deep respect and

2487
01:57:41,400 --> 01:57:44,919
Speaker 5: love designed to support Trump and his overall pro human agenda.

2488
01:57:45,160 --> 01:57:47,680
Speaker 5: As an example, Trump's fifty first state ongoing joke about

2489
01:57:47,720 --> 01:57:51,000
Speaker 5: Canada just handed the World Economic Forum even greater control

2490
01:57:51,080 --> 01:57:54,760
Speaker 5: than they had under Trudeau, which back check, yes, absolutely

2491
01:57:54,760 --> 01:57:57,360
Speaker 5: because Mark Carney central banker is now in charge of

2492
01:57:57,360 --> 01:58:00,440
Speaker 5: Canada and he likely would not have been Donald Trump

2493
01:58:00,520 --> 01:58:04,160
Speaker 5: hadn't done this ongoing fifty first state joke about Canada.

2494
01:58:04,240 --> 01:58:04,920
Speaker 4: And so that's.

2495
01:58:04,760 --> 01:58:07,560
Speaker 5: Interesting because it's Alex Jones even like taking issue with

2496
01:58:07,600 --> 01:58:11,440
Speaker 5: the style of trump Ism on the Israel stuff. Yeah,

2497
01:58:11,520 --> 01:58:15,440
Speaker 5: that like sort of handholding emoji, Like that's how I'm

2498
01:58:15,480 --> 01:58:18,440
Speaker 5: seeing it with the actual anti Semites and the civil libertarians.

2499
01:58:18,480 --> 01:58:20,880
Speaker 5: And it's not the civil libertarians like actively trying to

2500
01:58:20,920 --> 01:58:22,520
Speaker 5: hold hands with the.

2501
01:58:22,240 --> 01:58:23,320
Speaker 4: Literal neo Nazis.

2502
01:58:23,320 --> 01:58:25,960
Speaker 5: It's more than neo Nazis like grabbing the hands of

2503
01:58:26,000 --> 01:58:28,440
Speaker 5: the civil libertarians and being like, look, we're in this

2504
01:58:28,560 --> 01:58:30,160
Speaker 5: together now, and Alex Jones is.

2505
01:58:30,160 --> 01:58:32,320
Speaker 4: Trying to be like, yeah, no, we're not.

2506
01:58:33,480 --> 01:58:37,520
Speaker 5: But it's hard because there are serious civil liberty concerns

2507
01:58:37,560 --> 01:58:39,720
Speaker 5: on the tables that I was thinking about this morning.

2508
01:58:39,760 --> 01:58:42,920
Speaker 5: I mean, one of the I think it was it

2509
01:58:42,960 --> 01:58:44,560
Speaker 5: was a huge wake up call for the right where

2510
01:58:44,560 --> 01:58:46,600
Speaker 5: they were holding hands with the civil libertarians in twenty

2511
01:58:46,600 --> 01:58:48,240
Speaker 5: seventeen twenty eighteen, when people like.

2512
01:58:48,200 --> 01:58:50,760
Speaker 4: Carter Page were being unlawfully spied on.

2513
01:58:51,200 --> 01:58:54,200
Speaker 5: By our intelligence community by the FBI when they didn't

2514
01:58:54,240 --> 01:58:56,560
Speaker 5: take all the steps they needed to secure their FISA warrant,

2515
01:58:56,600 --> 01:58:59,480
Speaker 5: they lied on the fight, all of that stuff. It's

2516
01:58:59,480 --> 01:59:01,920
Speaker 5: like all of that has just been thrown out the window.

2517
01:59:02,240 --> 01:59:05,960
Speaker 5: And like that's something that the Alex Jones universe was

2518
01:59:06,000 --> 01:59:10,160
Speaker 5: furious about, was the FBI fudging the rules and ways

2519
01:59:10,200 --> 01:59:12,879
Speaker 5: they did to spy on Muslims during the Bush administration,

2520
01:59:12,960 --> 01:59:17,360
Speaker 5: the Obama administration. I mean, the it was all out

2521
01:59:17,360 --> 01:59:21,520
Speaker 5: there for everyone to see. And now it's like, just

2522
01:59:21,720 --> 01:59:24,400
Speaker 5: full steam ahead, don't worry about any of this stuff.

2523
01:59:24,880 --> 01:59:26,720
Speaker 5: We'll get back to a place and we trust Trump

2524
01:59:27,080 --> 01:59:30,080
Speaker 5: exactly exactly. And Alex Jones, to your point, is someone

2525
01:59:30,120 --> 01:59:33,839
Speaker 5: who's very much like trusting of Donald Trump. So it's

2526
01:59:33,960 --> 01:59:36,360
Speaker 5: very interesting. I think that's not wrong. Like this criticism

2527
01:59:36,360 --> 01:59:38,200
Speaker 5: of him is from.

2528
01:59:38,080 --> 01:59:39,000
Speaker 4: Him is very interesting.

2529
01:59:39,040 --> 01:59:41,480
Speaker 1: I Mean, the other dynamic that's playing out here is

2530
01:59:41,920 --> 01:59:44,360
Speaker 1: like there's a reason Alex Jones wants to have Nick

2531
01:59:44,400 --> 01:59:47,200
Speaker 1: Quantaz on a show because Nick Fantas is popular with

2532
01:59:47,440 --> 01:59:50,879
Speaker 1: some portion, probably a significant portion of Alex Jones's audience,

2533
01:59:51,080 --> 01:59:53,920
Speaker 1: Which makes sense because Alex Jones' is conspiracy theorist. That's

2534
01:59:53,920 --> 01:59:58,280
Speaker 1: his whole shit, and the ultimate like timeless conspiracy theory

2535
01:59:58,560 --> 02:00:01,120
Speaker 1: is that the Jews control every Yeah, and so Nick

2536
02:00:01,200 --> 02:00:04,520
Speaker 1: Fuentes is sort of like out conspiracizing.

2537
02:00:04,720 --> 02:00:08,520
Speaker 3: Is that a word, Alex Jones. Yeah, which is why

2538
02:00:08,600 --> 02:00:10,800
Speaker 3: Jon he's too He's.

2539
02:00:10,560 --> 02:00:14,600
Speaker 1: Too nervous to actually say, like you can't like stop

2540
02:00:14,680 --> 02:00:17,440
Speaker 1: fixating and saying Juice control everything and just being like

2541
02:00:17,440 --> 02:00:20,080
Speaker 1: an out and out anti Semite yep, because that would

2542
02:00:20,120 --> 02:00:23,800
Speaker 1: be very unpopular with the audience base that he's created

2543
02:00:24,200 --> 02:00:27,280
Speaker 1: and with his brand positioning as like the ultimate conspiracy theorist.

2544
02:00:27,800 --> 02:00:29,840
Speaker 1: So instead he has to couch it in just like, well,

2545
02:00:30,000 --> 02:00:31,880
Speaker 1: I think you're fixating on that a little too much.

2546
02:00:31,960 --> 02:00:36,480
Speaker 5: Well, so Fuentes is ay, he's Catholic, and Alex Jones,

2547
02:00:36,520 --> 02:00:39,880
Speaker 5: I'll say, as an evangelical, there are a lot of

2548
02:00:39,960 --> 02:00:45,480
Speaker 5: like evangelical Christians who have now after COVID fallen into

2549
02:00:45,640 --> 02:00:48,200
Speaker 5: at least being like Alex Jones curious, if not like

2550
02:00:48,200 --> 02:00:50,640
Speaker 5: big Alex Jones supporters, but Alex Jones curious.

2551
02:00:50,760 --> 02:00:52,960
Speaker 4: That's also a group of people that is very pro.

2552
02:00:52,960 --> 02:00:57,560
Speaker 5: Israel, oh yeah, and very adverse to anti Semitism and

2553
02:00:57,640 --> 02:01:01,480
Speaker 5: so from like a very sensitive to claims of anti Semitism,

2554
02:01:01,560 --> 02:01:03,920
Speaker 5: and so I think Alex Jones is in this interesting

2555
02:01:03,960 --> 02:01:06,200
Speaker 5: place where I mean you and I both remember like

2556
02:01:06,240 --> 02:01:08,600
Speaker 5: in the mid auts, Alex Jones was way more popular

2557
02:01:08,600 --> 02:01:10,200
Speaker 5: with people on the left because of a lot of

2558
02:01:10,280 --> 02:01:11,200
Speaker 5: nine to eleven stuff.

2559
02:01:11,640 --> 02:01:14,000
Speaker 4: He was like in those bass.

2560
02:01:13,640 --> 02:01:16,200
Speaker 5: Rogan gets to be friends exactly, yeah, yeah, And so

2561
02:01:16,360 --> 02:01:20,840
Speaker 5: he has such a strange coalition of people who follow him.

2562
02:01:20,840 --> 02:01:24,880
Speaker 5: I think he feels pressure, not just in substance, but

2563
02:01:24,960 --> 02:01:27,880
Speaker 5: like actually in being able to maintain the project that

2564
02:01:27,920 --> 02:01:32,200
Speaker 5: he's overseeing. He sees himself overseeing as he feels some

2565
02:01:32,240 --> 02:01:35,560
Speaker 5: pressure to try and like say, the Emperor has no

2566
02:01:35,560 --> 02:01:38,120
Speaker 5: clothes when it comes to Flint does, and to try

2567
02:01:38,160 --> 02:01:41,080
Speaker 5: to undercut Nick fent Flint does, or just like be

2568
02:01:41,400 --> 02:01:44,480
Speaker 5: seen in debate with Nick Flint does, so that it

2569
02:01:44,520 --> 02:01:46,520
Speaker 5: takes power away from Nick Flinty.

2570
02:01:46,280 --> 02:01:49,960
Speaker 1: He's you're making when you're making Alex Jones look moderate

2571
02:01:50,000 --> 02:01:53,800
Speaker 1: and reasonable, Well, that's a wild place to be.

2572
02:01:53,960 --> 02:01:55,840
Speaker 5: I do also think that, like we can talk about

2573
02:01:55,840 --> 02:01:59,960
Speaker 5: whatever Alex Jones's motivations are for this, he seems quite different.

2574
02:02:00,160 --> 02:02:03,760
Speaker 5: Even some of his followers are criticizing him for seeming

2575
02:02:03,960 --> 02:02:05,200
Speaker 5: different in recent.

2576
02:02:05,320 --> 02:02:07,080
Speaker 1: Tell me more about that, because I can't claim to

2577
02:02:07,120 --> 02:02:09,880
Speaker 1: be like a regular viewer or particularly in touch with

2578
02:02:09,960 --> 02:02:10,760
Speaker 1: his audience.

2579
02:02:11,240 --> 02:02:13,880
Speaker 5: No, I'm not a really viewer either, but he has

2580
02:02:13,960 --> 02:02:17,520
Speaker 5: been a more regular presence in some conservative circles, like

2581
02:02:17,520 --> 02:02:21,920
Speaker 5: he goes on talker show and I think again, like

2582
02:02:22,120 --> 02:02:24,240
Speaker 5: we can criticize his motivations for this, but I think

2583
02:02:24,240 --> 02:02:27,600
Speaker 5: he definitely was changed by his experience in court with

2584
02:02:27,720 --> 02:02:28,560
Speaker 5: the Sandy.

2585
02:02:28,200 --> 02:02:30,480
Speaker 24: Hook stuff, and there was a consequence when there was

2586
02:02:30,480 --> 02:02:36,040
Speaker 24: any and even if that consequence is sort of disproportionate,

2587
02:02:36,040 --> 02:02:38,680
Speaker 24: which I'm not even going to start debating, that's definitely

2588
02:02:38,760 --> 02:02:39,640
Speaker 24: Tucker's take on it.

2589
02:02:39,720 --> 02:02:44,000
Speaker 5: But even if that's true, he seems like, you know, again,

2590
02:02:44,320 --> 02:02:46,680
Speaker 5: maybe he's doing it for the wrong reasons. To paraphrase

2591
02:02:46,720 --> 02:02:50,080
Speaker 5: everyone on The Bachelor, but he seems like he's more

2592
02:02:50,600 --> 02:02:54,320
Speaker 5: careful and cautious his followers, not all of them, but

2593
02:02:54,320 --> 02:02:56,480
Speaker 5: there's like a sub sect. It's like funtest world, which

2594
02:02:56,480 --> 02:02:58,040
Speaker 5: is why he wanted to debate Alex.

2595
02:02:57,840 --> 02:02:59,040
Speaker 3: Jones truly became president.

2596
02:02:59,200 --> 02:03:04,440
Speaker 5: Yes, it's finally right, but Flint's world does criticize him

2597
02:03:04,480 --> 02:03:06,920
Speaker 5: for being Ah. I'm sure they call him a Zionist,

2598
02:03:07,000 --> 02:03:08,600
Speaker 5: and I'm sure they say that he's been like co

2599
02:03:08,640 --> 02:03:12,320
Speaker 5: opted by the vast Zionist conspiracy, just like Donald Trump.

2600
02:03:12,360 --> 02:03:14,960
Speaker 5: And I think that's where he feels pressure to debate

2601
02:03:15,000 --> 02:03:18,280
Speaker 5: flint Us and push back and try to put some

2602
02:03:18,280 --> 02:03:20,880
Speaker 5: some guardrails up at least on that. But yeah, I

2603
02:03:20,880 --> 02:03:22,680
Speaker 5: mean Oxtions is in an interesting place right now. Some

2604
02:03:22,720 --> 02:03:25,960
Speaker 5: of his people think he's not hardcore enough anymore. He

2605
02:03:26,040 --> 02:03:30,040
Speaker 5: definitely lost his edge. He has some guardrails obviously because

2606
02:03:30,200 --> 02:03:32,000
Speaker 5: of the court situation.

2607
02:03:32,400 --> 02:03:33,960
Speaker 4: And to your point, don't you.

2608
02:03:33,960 --> 02:03:36,040
Speaker 3: Also think though that because there are.

2609
02:03:36,080 --> 02:03:40,040
Speaker 1: So much, so many wild conspiracies on the like, it's

2610
02:03:40,040 --> 02:03:41,640
Speaker 1: hard for him to keep up, and not just with

2611
02:03:41,760 --> 02:03:45,680
Speaker 1: Fontes but also like that, you know, all the QAnon

2612
02:03:46,160 --> 02:03:47,200
Speaker 1: stuff and whatever.

2613
02:03:47,320 --> 02:03:47,440
Speaker 24: Like.

2614
02:03:47,800 --> 02:03:50,240
Speaker 1: He used to be the only game in town for

2615
02:03:50,320 --> 02:03:53,120
Speaker 1: this kind of content, and now he's got a lot

2616
02:03:53,120 --> 02:03:55,840
Speaker 1: of competitors. Then they're pretty fierce in terms of like

2617
02:03:55,920 --> 02:03:58,360
Speaker 1: the you know, remember back in the campaign they thought

2618
02:03:58,360 --> 02:04:01,320
Speaker 1: that the Democrats made the hurricane, Like, you know, like

2619
02:04:01,400 --> 02:04:03,320
Speaker 1: he used to be really kind of have a corner

2620
02:04:03,360 --> 02:04:06,080
Speaker 1: on that market and now there's a lot of competition

2621
02:04:06,120 --> 02:04:06,680
Speaker 1: in the space.

2622
02:04:06,840 --> 02:04:08,520
Speaker 5: But a lot of those people still sort of I

2623
02:04:08,520 --> 02:04:09,880
Speaker 5: don't want to say Revere, but a lot of those

2624
02:04:09,920 --> 02:04:12,480
Speaker 5: people still pick up on Alex Jones's cues and follow

2625
02:04:12,560 --> 02:04:15,600
Speaker 5: him and will like, you know, be deferential respectful of

2626
02:04:15,760 --> 02:04:18,200
Speaker 5: Alex Jones is sort of like the figurehead of that

2627
02:04:18,280 --> 02:04:20,920
Speaker 5: movement which a lot of people feel like was vindicated

2628
02:04:21,040 --> 02:04:23,560
Speaker 5: around the time of COVID, And that's one of those

2629
02:04:23,560 --> 02:04:28,240
Speaker 5: things where it's like he has been correct about certain

2630
02:04:28,320 --> 02:04:31,080
Speaker 5: conspiracies and it gives him this power.

2631
02:04:31,240 --> 02:04:33,400
Speaker 1: The funny thing now is that, like, you know, all

2632
02:04:33,400 --> 02:04:35,360
Speaker 1: the things they said about the World Economic Forum, they

2633
02:04:35,360 --> 02:04:37,360
Speaker 1: want you to like have new things and eat bugs

2634
02:04:37,360 --> 02:04:39,320
Speaker 1: and whatever. It's like now Trump is like, you can

2635
02:04:39,360 --> 02:04:40,760
Speaker 1: only have two dollars, yes.

2636
02:04:40,640 --> 02:04:44,760
Speaker 5: And Trump is like welcoming like Scott Bessont who comes

2637
02:04:44,760 --> 02:04:48,080
Speaker 5: from Sorels World into the fold. And besson is now

2638
02:04:48,200 --> 02:04:50,440
Speaker 5: the architect, the man who's seen is like the trusted

2639
02:04:50,840 --> 02:04:54,680
Speaker 5: figure of Trump's entire economic policy. So it's a very

2640
02:04:54,720 --> 02:04:57,600
Speaker 5: odd time. The internal politics of this are very odd.

2641
02:04:57,880 --> 02:05:00,640
Speaker 5: The Tucker the recent Tucker interview with Alection is quite

2642
02:05:00,640 --> 02:05:03,800
Speaker 5: interesting because it's Tucker marveling at the fact that Alex

2643
02:05:03,880 --> 02:05:07,960
Speaker 5: Jones predicted nine to eleven, which people dispute. He did

2644
02:05:08,040 --> 02:05:09,840
Speaker 5: have some he made some comments before nine to eleven

2645
02:05:09,880 --> 02:05:11,600
Speaker 5: that I think we're genuinely.

2646
02:05:11,240 --> 02:05:12,280
Speaker 3: Like pretty pression.

2647
02:05:12,400 --> 02:05:13,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, they're pretty prescient.

2648
02:05:14,400 --> 02:05:17,160
Speaker 5: But Tucker basically saying like, you were right about this,

2649
02:05:17,280 --> 02:05:20,160
Speaker 5: and ever since the government has tried to silence you.

2650
02:05:20,720 --> 02:05:23,480
Speaker 5: So this is where the power comes from of being

2651
02:05:23,520 --> 02:05:26,160
Speaker 5: prescient on a couple of different things. So he does

2652
02:05:26,240 --> 02:05:29,560
Speaker 5: have more competition now from the media that he helped democratize.

2653
02:05:30,040 --> 02:05:31,520
Speaker 4: Right, Like you said, Info Wars.

2654
02:05:31,360 --> 02:05:33,320
Speaker 5: Really was the only game in town and like some

2655
02:05:33,360 --> 02:05:38,280
Speaker 5: weird even weirder blogs, But now you know, you can

2656
02:05:38,400 --> 02:05:41,960
Speaker 5: say this stuff on x and you can say this

2657
02:05:42,000 --> 02:05:45,240
Speaker 5: stuff on Rumble, so everyone's sort of in the game.

2658
02:05:45,280 --> 02:05:48,040
Speaker 5: It's been democratized to the point where he does have

2659
02:05:48,080 --> 02:05:51,880
Speaker 5: a harder time sort of holding conspiracy worlds together.

2660
02:05:53,040 --> 02:05:54,600
Speaker 3: This is why I love talking to you about.

2661
02:05:54,440 --> 02:05:57,000
Speaker 5: Oh, I'm not even that deep, Like you should talk

2662
02:05:57,040 --> 02:05:57,480
Speaker 5: to some of.

2663
02:05:57,440 --> 02:05:58,680
Speaker 4: My friends, like Sager, my friend.

2664
02:05:58,720 --> 02:06:00,240
Speaker 5: You should talk to some of that, Like I'll be

2665
02:06:00,280 --> 02:06:03,760
Speaker 5: able to give you a much more granular reading of the.

2666
02:06:03,680 --> 02:06:06,200
Speaker 4: Internal might need to do that. We should do that.

2667
02:06:06,320 --> 02:06:08,600
Speaker 5: Usually because I'm not even that deep, people would listen

2668
02:06:08,600 --> 02:06:11,400
Speaker 5: to me and be like okay, yeah, yet, like.

2669
02:06:11,600 --> 02:06:13,080
Speaker 4: Flint is actually blah blah blah.

2670
02:06:13,080 --> 02:06:16,680
Speaker 5: I'm like, oh, gosh, I try to stay out of it,

2671
02:06:16,760 --> 02:06:17,800
Speaker 5: but we should get one of them on.

2672
02:06:18,040 --> 02:06:21,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like that. That'll be fun, all right, guys.

2673
02:06:21,400 --> 02:06:23,280
Speaker 1: So that is a show for today. We are we

2674
02:06:23,320 --> 02:06:26,320
Speaker 1: have our Friday show tomorrow. It looks like so baby

2675
02:06:26,320 --> 02:06:29,839
Speaker 1: has not come as of ten twenty four am on Thursday,

2676
02:06:29,840 --> 02:06:31,440
Speaker 1: but I do think Sager is now out for his

2677
02:06:31,560 --> 02:06:34,720
Speaker 1: paternity leave just to be there for his wife and

2678
02:06:35,040 --> 02:06:36,880
Speaker 1: make sure that they are ready to go. So we

2679
02:06:37,040 --> 02:06:39,280
Speaker 1: are wishing him well. So you guys are going to

2680
02:06:39,320 --> 02:06:42,680
Speaker 1: see you know, different hosts. Oh, it's exciting switching Around'll

2681
02:06:42,680 --> 02:06:46,200
Speaker 1: go ahead. So on Monday, actually Glenn Greenwald is going

2682
02:06:46,240 --> 02:06:48,160
Speaker 1: to co host with me for a portion of the show,

2683
02:06:48,200 --> 02:06:50,040
Speaker 1: which would be super fun, which.

2684
02:06:49,920 --> 02:06:50,600
Speaker 3: I'm looking forward to.

2685
02:06:50,680 --> 02:06:52,040
Speaker 1: So we are going to bring in some sort of

2686
02:06:52,040 --> 02:06:55,280
Speaker 1: like guest outside hosts, but also we'll be you know,

2687
02:06:55,480 --> 02:06:57,760
Speaker 1: you and me and Ryan and we'll be mixing up

2688
02:06:57,760 --> 02:07:01,080
Speaker 1: the hosting duties all around to cover for Soccer while

2689
02:07:01,120 --> 02:07:04,000
Speaker 1: he is on maternity leave, and which is something we're

2690
02:07:04,040 --> 02:07:06,120
Speaker 1: going to continue into the future as well, because that

2691
02:07:06,200 --> 02:07:08,760
Speaker 1: has I think you guys have you know received that

2692
02:07:08,960 --> 02:07:11,520
Speaker 1: really well, Like everybody seems to be enjoying the different dynamics.

2693
02:07:11,560 --> 02:07:13,440
Speaker 1: We're enjoying the different dynamics. It's fun to get to

2694
02:07:13,480 --> 02:07:15,720
Speaker 1: host with all of the all of the co hosts

2695
02:07:15,720 --> 02:07:18,880
Speaker 1: here and so yeah, that's what's going on. So we'll

2696
02:07:18,920 --> 02:07:20,840
Speaker 1: see you guys Friday, and then I will see you

2697
02:07:20,960 --> 02:07:22,760
Speaker 1: on Monday with Glenn Greenwold.

2698
02:07:23,000 --> 02:07:23,840
Speaker 3: Have a great day, guys,