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Speaker 1: Hey, there're folks.

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Speaker 2: It is Tuesday, November the eleventh, and a group of

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Speaker 2: teachers is getting death threats. They've had to update security

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Speaker 2: on their school campus. Even a state official is demanding

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Speaker 2: that this group of teachers be fired. And get this

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Speaker 2: all because everybody is wrong. And with that, welcome to

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Speaker 2: this episode of Amy and TJ. All of this happening,

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Speaker 2: folks and robes because a mistake was made, mistakenly identified

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Speaker 2: them as doing something wrong. It catches fire, goes everywhere,

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Speaker 2: and nobody wants to come back and now admit we

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Speaker 2: made a mistake, We apologize.

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Speaker 3: This story is appalling, and the more you get into

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Speaker 3: the details of it, it's such a sad statement of

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Speaker 3: where we are in this country when it comes to politics,

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Speaker 3: when it comes to understanding, when it comes to keeping

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Speaker 3: an open mind, giving peace people grace and recognizing that

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Speaker 3: maybe it's dangerous to jump to conclusions.

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Speaker 2: This is and you'll hear these details, really, Roades, I

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Speaker 2: had not seen this make a lot of headlines before now,

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Speaker 2: and you're the one that brought it to my attention.

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Speaker 2: So I'm not sure how many people are aware of

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Speaker 2: what's going on, but this is happening out in Arizona

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Speaker 2: in particular, and it's connected to the death of Charlie Kirk.

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Speaker 4: That's right.

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Speaker 3: So a group of math teachers at an Arizona high

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Speaker 3: school decided to put together a Halloween costume.

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Speaker 4: And that Halloween.

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Speaker 3: Costume that was worn by this group of math teachers

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Speaker 3: led to a teacher saying he was so scared he

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Speaker 3: hid in his bathroom to cry so his wife wouldn't

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Speaker 3: see him cry. There was extra sheriff's deputies on campus

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Speaker 3: all week. The front office received phone calls with people

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Speaker 3: yelling things like are you ready to mother effing die

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Speaker 3: over a Halloween costume? Because someone saw a picture of

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Speaker 3: these teachers that was posted to the school's Facebook page

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Speaker 3: and said they are mocking Charlie Kirk.

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Speaker 1: All right.

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Speaker 2: To be clear, the shirts folks look like, and the

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Speaker 2: makeup they're dressed kind of like zombies, all right. They're

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Speaker 2: just kind of dirty shirts. They say problem solved on it,

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Speaker 2: and it has bloodstained for the most part. From what

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Speaker 2: I can tell, robes on the left side of the

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Speaker 2: shirt on the person's left the left arm, if you will,

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Speaker 2: is what they look like. So they're supposed to be

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Speaker 2: some kind of zombie. These are math teachers. So problem

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Speaker 2: solved was supposed to be a nod to math problems.

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Speaker 2: That is what the shirt looked like. It was posted

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Speaker 2: somewhere and it was misinterpreted. Correctcuse me, it was interpreted

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Speaker 2: absolutely wrongly and then spread and caught fire. When you're

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Speaker 2: talking about we have seen robes, people fired and threatened

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Speaker 2: and etc. For mocking the death of Charlie Kirk. So

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Speaker 2: what happened Charlie Kirk's own organization? I think robes probably

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Speaker 2: are the ones that really got this going, that is correct.

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Speaker 3: So this turning point. USA spokesperson Andrew Colvid he tweeted

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Speaker 3: that the teachers in that photo deserve to be famous

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Speaker 3: and fired. Now he since deleted that post, but it

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Speaker 3: accrued nearly ten million views. Damage done, Damage done. And

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Speaker 3: here's to me what even bothered me the most when

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Speaker 3: the district, the school district realized what was happening. The

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Speaker 3: school principal talks about waking up to a flood of

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Speaker 3: messages and being mortified because this of course wasn't the

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Speaker 3: intent of the Halloween costume, and they were trying to

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Speaker 3: do damage control. So they put out a statement saying

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Speaker 3: this had nothing to do with Charlie Kirk. This was

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Speaker 3: our teachers enjoying Halloween. They were wearing those T shirts

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Speaker 3: in the spirit of a zombie run that the school

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Speaker 3: was putting on later in the day, So they were

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Speaker 3: being zombies and they thought they had a math joke,

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Speaker 3: so they put that out there. And then here's the

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Speaker 3: really egregious part, I believe in turning Point. USA SPOKESPSID

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Speaker 3: Andrew Colovitt then took the district statement, posted it and

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Speaker 3: said he'd be relieved if they didn't intend to reference Kirk,

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Speaker 3: but that he didn't think everyone in the photo was innocent,

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Speaker 3: and he said teachers have been among the worst defenders

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Speaker 3: of mocking and celebrating Charlie's assassination, so he kept it

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Speaker 3: going even though the district gave a very innocent explanation

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Speaker 3: as to what the photo actually was showing.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what to do.

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Speaker 2: I know though, everybody connected and that entire organization is

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Speaker 2: going to be hurting for quite some time for what

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Speaker 2: happened to Charlie Kirk. I just wish a cooler and

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Speaker 2: more sensible head could prevail and to give a little

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Speaker 2: grace that it's possible that initially the fure the the

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Speaker 2: outraids you had was wrong because you didn't have all

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Speaker 2: the information, and that's okay. But instead of we didn't

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Speaker 2: acknowledge that, we have to say yeah, okay, but still

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Speaker 2: I bet some of them were. And so you're still

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Speaker 2: a sign you're actually doubling now you have it all,

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Speaker 2: and you're doubling down on these being people who are

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Speaker 2: celebrating the death of this man. That is this we

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Speaker 2: can't we're getting We're never gonna get anywhere. This is

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Speaker 2: so upsetting that we just can't take a beat. They're

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Speaker 2: getting death threats. If you want to say they were

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Speaker 2: stupid and should have maybe assumed, I might start with

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Speaker 2: that conversation, but I'd still push back, say, hey, you

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Speaker 2: got on white T shirts, bold letters on it looks

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Speaker 2: like some blood down one side. Hmm, maybe somebody might, Hey,

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Speaker 2: just the head's up somebody maybe if you want to

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Speaker 2: make that argument. But rodes after hearing, oh have we

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Speaker 2: even said the big part? They can prove these were

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Speaker 2: the same damn Halloween costumes from last year.

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Speaker 4: That's correct.

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Speaker 3: And even when they did and posted a picture of

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Speaker 3: those same teachers wearing those same T shirts from the

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Speaker 3: year before, people said don't believe it.

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Speaker 4: It's AI. It's a fake.

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Speaker 3: So even when you have photographic evidence proving that this

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Speaker 3: was not related to Charlie Kirk, it couldn't have been

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Speaker 3: if they had these T shirts and wore them the

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Speaker 3: year prior, and still people say they fake the time stamp.

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Speaker 4: It's a fake photo.

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Speaker 3: So you can't even convince people that it isn't connected

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Speaker 3: when you have photographic evidence that it is not connected.

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Speaker 2: I pray everybody listening, we got to do better and give.

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Speaker 2: At some point, you have to believe something in front

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Speaker 2: of you and not just the lane you have chosen.

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Speaker 2: We are so sure that if this is happening on

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Speaker 2: this side, and this has happened on the side, then I.

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Speaker 1: Have to stick with my group.

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Speaker 2: There's no way I could concede that I was wrong

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Speaker 2: or concede something to the other side. I have to double, triple,

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Speaker 2: quadruple down. And this is getting people hurt. These teachers

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Speaker 2: are being threatened. Who knows how far it's going to go.

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Speaker 2: But there is proof that they fine made a mistake

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Speaker 2: and shouldn't.

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Speaker 4: Have worn them this year. Maybe it was in poor taste.

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Speaker 2: Let's go with that, but we have to give teachers

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Speaker 2: grace when we see we know they did not buy

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Speaker 2: these last year in anticipation of an assassination. They've had

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Speaker 2: these shirts for a year.

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Speaker 3: And look, most of these teachers who are in this

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Speaker 3: photo are not comfortable enough putting their names out with

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Speaker 3: any sort of commentary. But we have heard anonymously they

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Speaker 3: have spoken and said several of the teachers in that

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Speaker 3: photo are Charlie Kirk supporters. Several of the teachers in

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Speaker 3: that photo voted for Trump. So they were trying to say,

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Speaker 3: trust us, we had zero mal intent and we certainly

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Speaker 3: aren't against Kirk or the Republican Party.

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Speaker 2: Is that message ever going to be amplified loud than

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Speaker 2: those first ten million likes or whatever it was spreading

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Speaker 2: this story. Are you ever going to be loud enough?

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Speaker 2: And even if you are, is the response going to

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Speaker 2: be the same one we're getting from turning point now?

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Well, you can't take the toothpaste out of the I

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Speaker 3: can't put it back in the two.

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Speaker 4: You can't put it back in the tube.

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Speaker 2: You can't culverhead an option of doing so.

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Speaker 1: Say hey, folks, heads up, need you to know this.

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Speaker 2: But this wasn't the most egregious one to me, there

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Speaker 2: is a state official there robes this was the one

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Speaker 2: when I saw it, like you have a different public responsibility.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Arizona State Representative Rachel Keshel, she's a Republican from Tucson,

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Speaker 3: and the first thing she posted on X when she

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Speaker 3: saw the district's response, she saw the fact that there

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Speaker 3: was another photo. She said, I am not buying this

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Speaker 3: BS story one bit. And she even said her daughter

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Speaker 3: graduated from that very high school the year before, and

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Speaker 3: her daughter told her those teachers never wore those Halloween

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Speaker 3: costumes the year before.

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Speaker 2: That's what she's going with, right, so she knows better

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Speaker 2: and the principal is lying. The photo from last year

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Speaker 2: is a timestam. All of these things are AI. So

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Speaker 2: what do we do. We believe a kid who was

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Speaker 2: in high school there who may be heard possibly something

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Speaker 2: and she saw every and remembers every Halloween costume from

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Speaker 2: every teacher last year is her basis. This was my

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Speaker 2: problem with the statement from this state representatives. I must

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Speaker 2: firmly reject any attempts to downplay this incident as mere

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Speaker 2: math problem solving attire recycles from last year. So what

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Speaker 2: she said is okay, fine, even if it is from

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Speaker 2: last year, you still shouldn't be wearing that.

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Speaker 1: Correct, Like, there is.

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Speaker 2: No answer for this other than you all are wrong

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Speaker 2: because we say so. There is no room for conversation.

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Speaker 3: She wants all of these teachers fired. She's demanding that

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Speaker 3: they all be fired. And look, some folks took it

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Speaker 3: even further. A conservative commentator on x posted the photo

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Speaker 3: alongside the names and phone numbers of all the teachers.

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Speaker 3: Guess how many views that post received? Twenty million views?

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Speaker 1: Okay, political violence, right.

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Speaker 4: And this is the irony of all ironies.

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Speaker 3: In an effort to be upset and try to point

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Speaker 3: the finger at people who incite political violence, people on

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Speaker 3: the other side are inciting political violence.

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Speaker 2: The claim will be, we just want you to hound

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Speaker 2: these people, get them fired right in, make sure you

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Speaker 2: hurt their businesses. That's the idea of it's to think

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Speaker 2: that some people think it just stops there.

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Speaker 1: What is that? What we have just expoke?

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Speaker 2: We have put a target, literal target on the backs

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Speaker 2: of teachers and giving you directions.

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Speaker 1: To find them.

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Speaker 4: Correct. Correct, that is.

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Speaker 2: What we have done all because we can't just simply say,

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Speaker 2: you know what, we didn't have all the information we

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Speaker 2: got it wrong, find it in poor taste. Still, but

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Speaker 2: these teachers, obviously we're not trying to mock the death

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Speaker 2: of Charlie Kirk. Now, And how many are there in

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Speaker 2: that picture?

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Speaker 4: It looked like around ten. Yes, I didn't count, but that's.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people to get together and say, hey,

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Speaker 2: let's play this really poor joke.

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Speaker 3: And this would have come weeks after they already saw

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Speaker 3: the firings, the condemnation and the repercussions of so many

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Speaker 3: other prominent folks who misstep, misspokes, said things they shouldn't have,

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Speaker 3: tweeted things they shouldn't have. So they already saw the

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Speaker 3: fallout from all of that in the days immediately after

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Speaker 3: Charlie Kirk's assassination. So why then would they do that

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Speaker 3: after having all that? Now it doesn't actually even make sense.

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Speaker 3: And you know, we talked about some of the reaction.

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Speaker 3: This wasn't just from Yes, it's very specifically probably got

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Speaker 3: turned up by turning Point USA. But when you have

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Speaker 3: the Florida governor weighing in, when you have a Senator

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Speaker 3: from Utah weighing in, when you have a founder of

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Speaker 3: a political group for students that has a million followers,

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Speaker 3: weighing in.

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Speaker 4: These are all prominent names who have a lot of.

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Speaker 3: Followers, who people believe and rely on for real and

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Speaker 3: true information.

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Speaker 2: They're telling them what to do. They're telling them to

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Speaker 2: be outraged, and they're telling them to go after these people.

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Speaker 2: And they're telling them that it's okay to do so

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Speaker 2: because we are interpreting what they did as completely wrong

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Speaker 2: and they deserve no grace. Also, don't explain, they don't

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Speaker 2: even deserve us listening to their explanation.

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Speaker 1: That is how debate is taking place in this country.

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Speaker 3: You know what's fascinating to me, So I mentioned Florida

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Speaker 3: Governor Ron DeSantis. He initially posted on x that these

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Speaker 3: teachers were glorifying a murder. Then he later posted the

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Speaker 3: district statement of course, explaining what the photo actually was.

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Speaker 3: And he's said people can quote decide for themselves. And

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Speaker 3: then when reporters have followed up and said, hey, now

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Speaker 3: that you know more about the story, you know, what

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Speaker 3: do you have to say about the situation, and his

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Speaker 3: representatives referred them to his comments on Twitter, and he

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Speaker 3: refused to say anything else. And then we have I

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Speaker 3: think one of the scary things is when you have

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Speaker 3: representatives and people in power and places of respect. When

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Speaker 3: they are calling into question the integrity of a school

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Speaker 3: district a principle and saying everyone's lying to cover it up.

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Speaker 3: It's just sowing these seeds of complete and total distrust

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Speaker 3: in anyone and everyone, and that's.

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Speaker 2: Chaos in any institution. Don't believe it because we say

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Speaker 2: don't believe it. This isn't This is just an unreasonable

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Speaker 2: story to me. Now, it's unreasonable, and it's highlights how

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Speaker 2: we have debate in this country. You know, we hate

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Speaker 2: We go out of our way to make sure we

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Speaker 2: don't criticize. People have their feelings on whatever side or

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Speaker 2: the other.

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Speaker 1: And I'm sure.

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Speaker 2: That maybe they were initially upset or maybe something in

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Speaker 2: the back of their mind things right, that they were

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Speaker 2: trying to mock this person that they loved and the

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Speaker 2: death of this person that they love. I try to

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Speaker 2: leave some room for that. This is just not one

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Speaker 2: of those situations where it's up for interpretation. Necessarily. We

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Speaker 2: know they did not put these outfits together to mock

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Speaker 2: the death of Charlie Kirk like we know that, and

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Speaker 2: there's reasonable doubt even of what the other side is saying.

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Speaker 2: That's enough for us to pump the brakes and not

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Speaker 2: send armies of outraged, emotional people their way. I hate

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Speaker 2: this story so much. This is devastating about our political discourse.

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Speaker 3: I hate you know, this is a small town in Arizona,

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Speaker 3: a tight knit community, and when you start to read

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Speaker 3: the for reports, I mean all last week, the students

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Speaker 3: were scared to go to school. Half the teachers in

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Speaker 3: that photo didn't show up for the first couple of days.

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Speaker 3: They were so scared to come to school. There were

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Speaker 3: threats and rumors that snipers were going to be taking

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Speaker 3: out students, taking out teachers. In an era of political

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Speaker 3: violence and school shootings and all of the.

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Speaker 4: Just unbelievably.

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Speaker 3: Violent vitriol we have, can we take a step back

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Speaker 3: and recognize that these folks are scared to go to work,

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Speaker 3: kids are scared to go to school. The learning process

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Speaker 3: is being disrupted for what.

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Speaker 2: They don't seem to care because they think it is

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Speaker 2: a more just cause they have, which is to get

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Speaker 2: these people fire, to draw attention to these people. That's school,

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Speaker 2: that school, just to send people to their homes for

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Speaker 2: whatever reason.

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Speaker 1: That is.

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Speaker 2: Justification or what they believe, and what they believe just happens.

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Speaker 1: To be wrong. They made a mistake.

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Speaker 2: You didn't have all the information, Like we gotta be

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Speaker 2: big enough to say oops and understand your responsibility as

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Speaker 2: leaders to bring the temperature down. The Santas had the information,

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Speaker 2: the state lawmaker has the information, but she still keeps

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Speaker 2: doubling down. Such costumes aren't harmless fun. They normalize the

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Speaker 2: unthinkable political assassination because she won't just say, you know what,

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Speaker 2: these are Arizona citizens. I represent them as well. I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna go have a conversation with them and maybe we

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Speaker 2: can come to a better place that is leadership.

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Speaker 4: Her daughter went to that high school.

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Speaker 1: She knows these teachers.

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Speaker 4: Yes, that blows my mind.

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Speaker 3: And we mentioned the conservative commentator who posted the names

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Speaker 3: and phone numbers. Okay, how about a senator, a Republican

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Speaker 3: from Utah, Senator Mike Lee also posted the teachers names

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Speaker 3: and phone numbers and said, anyone else think this might

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Speaker 3: be the best advertisement ever for school choice and homeschooling.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so you're telling me now, this is what we

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Speaker 2: do us, Senator, We ain't got many of them.

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Speaker 1: These are a prestigious job.

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Speaker 2: And he is saying this is okay to dock.

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Speaker 3: It's really hard It makes me feel sick thinking about

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Speaker 3: where our country is right now. Our government is shut down,

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Speaker 3: folks aren't getting paid. It's incredibly difficult to see that

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Speaker 3: this is still going on in the midst of all

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Speaker 3: of that. So obviously we talked about how the district

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Speaker 3: tried to show that they had a photo proving that

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Speaker 3: this wasn't a Halloween costume based solely on Charlie Kirk's asassination.

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Speaker 3: It had nothing to do with it, and that's because

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Speaker 3: they had worn it the year before. But we know

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Speaker 3: what the math department was actually considering wearing for their

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Speaker 3: Halloween costumes. And when you hear this story, it makes

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Speaker 3: this whole thing feel even more frustratingly senseless, stupid. And

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Speaker 3: we want you to stay tuned for this part of

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Speaker 3: the story and and and continuing our conversation about what's

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Speaker 3: going on in the state of Arizona. And certainly it's

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Speaker 3: become a national story where these group of math teachers

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Speaker 3: in Arizona put on a Halloween costume for the second

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Speaker 3: year in a row, but this year, in the wake

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Speaker 3: of the Charlie Kirk assassination, it was misinterpreted and then

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Speaker 3: it became something that just is difficult to watch and

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Speaker 3: witness where we have teachers afraid to go to work,

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Speaker 3: students afraid to go to school, and teachers' names, phone

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Speaker 3: numbers put out for folks who are angry at this

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Speaker 3: picture to put out messages of hate violence. I mean,

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Speaker 3: it really is just a disturbing and escalating situation. The

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Speaker 3: temperature has not come down because the state lawmakers and

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Speaker 3: lawmakers around the country who want to believe that this

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Speaker 3: was politically motivated, they're not backing down despite the proof

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Speaker 3: that it wasn't. So the math department actually put out

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Speaker 3: that they were going to do a group costume this

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Speaker 3: year based on the gen Alpha the word of the

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Speaker 3: year six seven, and they thought that would be fun.

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Speaker 3: But they decided to not have this more probably timely

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Speaker 3: Halloween costume out because they didn't want to spend more money.

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Speaker 3: They wanted to save their high school and their school

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Speaker 3: district money, so they decided to reuse the same Halloween

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Speaker 3: costume they had from last year.

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Speaker 2: So teachers were doing their jobs. Everybody knows a big

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Speaker 2: part of being a teacher that is being very frugal,

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Speaker 2: being very resourceful, and making money stretch. So they were

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Speaker 2: actually in the process of being good teachers. As all

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Speaker 2: this happened to him, that just adds to the story.

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Speaker 2: Nobody's gonna believe that either. I guess that's just gonna

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Speaker 2: that just adds another element to the holy hell to

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Speaker 2: this story. It's it's just a shame. I hated for

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Speaker 2: those teachers. I hated for that district, that area, that

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Speaker 2: even for the state of Arizona at this point, to

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Speaker 2: see to see how they are leading the way almost

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Speaker 2: in this story on in the opposite direction of what

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Speaker 2: we were hoping they were going to lead us. And

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Speaker 2: that includes turning point USA, continuing on that legacy of debate,

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Speaker 2: of discourse, of continuing that on. Absolutely we just saw.

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Speaker 2: We are so offended at what happened to Charlie Kirk.

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Speaker 2: It's all because he was saying something. So let's all

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Speaker 2: bring the temperature down. You remember all that, You remember

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Speaker 2: that memorial service? Did they get up time after time?

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Speaker 2: I know they pointed some political fingers, but wasn't that

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Speaker 2: more of a commitment, right? We all try the words

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Speaker 2: matter that we all both sides left right, and I

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Speaker 2: know they tried to blame each other, but still we agreed.

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Speaker 2: We all agreed that this isn't what we need to

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Speaker 2: keep doing, And yet here we are, they sick demond teachers.

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Speaker 3: Who are still now fearing for their lives and fearing

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Speaker 3: for their famili's safety because of a Halloween costume that

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Speaker 3: had no mal intent. They actually won a costume contest

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Speaker 3: with those same T shirts the year before, and so

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Speaker 3: they thought, you know, they were good enough for last year.

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Speaker 3: We wanted the whole contest, the costume contest with these

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Speaker 3: T shirts. Let's just wear them again.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 3: The school superintendent put a statement that I actually really

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Speaker 3: appreciated and it goes in line with what you're saying, babe.

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Speaker 4: And I think that maybe, man, if.

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Speaker 3: The lawmakers who are holding firm and doubling down on

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Speaker 3: their initial reaction to that photo, if they could just

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Speaker 3: take what the school superintendent said to heart, maybe they

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Speaker 3: could have a change of heart.

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Speaker 4: He said, this horrific loop of.

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Speaker 3: Flinging pooh and insults at others who we think disagree

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Speaker 3: with us will never be broken online or via a

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Speaker 3: phone call or via an email. It's only going to

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Speaker 3: be broken by stepping out and meeting our neighbors. What

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Speaker 3: if the head of Turning Point usay, what if some

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Speaker 3: of these senators and lawmakers and conservative commentators actually went

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Speaker 3: and met with these teachers.

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Speaker 4: Would they walk away.

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Speaker 3: Feeling and thinking and saying the same things they are now?

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Speaker 2: The leader in this situation should not be the local

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Speaker 2: school superintendent. We got, we got centers, us senators involved.

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Speaker 2: There should be different and bigger voices. But I hope

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Speaker 2: I pray they do listen and some cooler heads can

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Speaker 2: prevail and this now turn into maybe maybe this is

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Speaker 2: a reason for this robes and this ends up being

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Speaker 2: a bigger story as a bigger show of support and understanding,

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Speaker 2: and maybe it can become something bigger, because right now

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Speaker 2: it's just a disappointment. I hope it's this is not

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Speaker 2: just you know, when you get politicians involved on something

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Speaker 2: like this, it's these are fundraising moves for them, right

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Speaker 2: They're firing up their people, they're firing up their base.

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Speaker 2: They got elections to win. I hope it's not just

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Speaker 2: just that over some teachers. That Senator Lee thing is

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Speaker 2: their names and numbers and addresses. That's that's that's that's tough.

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Speaker 3: I actually had to reread it and make sure that

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Speaker 3: I saw it for what it was, and that is

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Speaker 3: just a sad and appalling state of where we are.

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Speaker 3: But look, yes, the school superintendent is leading the way,

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Speaker 3: and perhaps he can shine a light or shed some

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Speaker 3: light on what is going on, and maybe one of

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Speaker 3: these politicians will step up and say, I got it wrong.

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Speaker 4: What do you think the chances of that are.

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Speaker 2: I will stay optimistic today because we don't everybody else's

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Speaker 2: We're down enough. We've got enough stuff to be down about.

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Speaker 2: Let me be upbeating optimistic about this one, but really

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Speaker 2: thinking about you all out there in Arizona, and.

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Speaker 1: You will play this.

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Speaker 2: I encourage everybody, and I do this all the time.

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Speaker 2: Just give it a beat before your initial emotion is outrage,

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Speaker 2: don't lead with that. Just a little investigation doesn't even

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Speaker 2: take long. A quick Google search and you can find out,

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Speaker 2: Oh that's not what I thought it was. We've seen

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Speaker 2: it time and time again. I always go back to

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Speaker 2: Princess Kate and everybody. Miss Ray had celebrities apologizing for

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Speaker 2: things they said about her, that whole photo thing. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 2: by the way, yeah, oh she has cancer.

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Speaker 1: You know, Just give it a beat, give people a little.

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Speaker 2: Grace, and do a little investigation, and maybe maybe you'll

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Speaker 2: find out there's a there's no justification for your initial outrage.

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Speaker 3: I love that and with us everyone. Thank you for

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Speaker 3: listening to us. We appreciate it, and we appreciate you.

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Speaker 3: I'm Amy Roebuck alongside t. J.

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Speaker 4: Holmes. We will talk to you soon.