1 00:00:15,066 --> 00:00:15,506 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:21,196 --> 00:00:24,136 Speaker 2: I'm Dana Goodyear. On this season of Lost Hills, I've 3 00:00:24,156 --> 00:00:26,556 Speaker 2: talked a lot about the Malibu of 40 years ago. 4 00:00:27,276 --> 00:00:30,136 Speaker 2: Malibu when the railers lived there. How it was this 5 00:00:30,256 --> 00:00:33,486 Speaker 2: really small town, but with all these unusual things about it. 6 00:00:34,516 --> 00:00:38,456 Speaker 2: It had become desirable. And this, at least according to 7 00:00:38,506 --> 00:00:41,826 Speaker 2: the Santa Barbara DA, was what drove Fred Raylor to 8 00:00:41,926 --> 00:00:45,446 Speaker 2: murder his two wives and his stepson. The desire to 9 00:00:45,486 --> 00:00:48,346 Speaker 2: control a fortune in Malibu real estate and collect a 10 00:00:48,366 --> 00:00:50,816 Speaker 2: bunch of insurance money that would fund his life there. 11 00:00:52,476 --> 00:00:54,956 Speaker 2: Everything I learned made me think that Malibu in the 12 00:00:55,016 --> 00:00:59,376 Speaker 2: 70s and early 80s was an insane place. Insanely wonderful, 13 00:00:59,816 --> 00:01:03,876 Speaker 2: insanely scary. It was this swirl of money and celebrities 14 00:01:03,936 --> 00:01:07,196 Speaker 2: and cowboys and drug dealers and musical geniuses living in 15 00:01:07,296 --> 00:01:09,976 Speaker 2: shacks on the beach that were starting to be snapped 16 00:01:10,016 --> 00:01:13,716 Speaker 2: up for millions. And just like on the canyon roads, 17 00:01:14,256 --> 00:01:15,536 Speaker 2: there were no guardrails. 18 00:01:16,876 --> 00:01:21,656 Speaker 3: Malibu in the 70s was like the movie The Ice 19 00:01:21,696 --> 00:01:29,456 Speaker 3: Storm meets Boogie Nights meets Lord of the Flies directed 20 00:01:29,556 --> 00:01:31,856 Speaker 3: by swingers on blow. 21 00:01:32,836 --> 00:01:34,336 Speaker 2: This is Rob Lowe. 22 00:01:35,956 --> 00:01:37,656 Speaker 3: We could go on a tour of Malibu and go, 23 00:01:38,856 --> 00:01:41,936 Speaker 3: dead guy there, car crash there, five people died there, 24 00:01:41,956 --> 00:01:43,556 Speaker 3: three people just on Point Doom alone. 25 00:01:44,776 --> 00:01:47,636 Speaker 2: Rob Lowe is a super famous actor who spent his 26 00:01:47,676 --> 00:01:53,296 Speaker 2: teenage years in Malibu in the 70s and 80s when Fred, Gene, Verna, 27 00:01:53,536 --> 00:01:56,736 Speaker 2: and their kids lived there. Rob moved to Malibu with 28 00:01:56,776 --> 00:02:00,986 Speaker 2: his mom and brothers in 1976. He was 12. A 29 00:02:01,026 --> 00:02:06,606 Speaker 2: hayseed from Ohio with dreams of stardom. He was not prepared. 30 00:02:07,646 --> 00:02:12,226 Speaker 3: Yeah, was it? Well, literally a frontier. The local supermarket 31 00:02:12,706 --> 00:02:17,086 Speaker 3: had a hitching post and people would get on their 32 00:02:17,106 --> 00:02:19,246 Speaker 3: horses and go to the market when I got there. 33 00:02:20,166 --> 00:02:23,706 Speaker 3: You also have to remember it was before it was gentrified, 34 00:02:23,866 --> 00:02:29,676 Speaker 3: first of all. What it was originally were outcasts people 35 00:02:29,696 --> 00:02:36,536 Speaker 3: looking to escape, counterculture people, burnt out actors and rock stars, 36 00:02:37,856 --> 00:02:43,406 Speaker 3: and then regular working class firemen, policemen, the odd architect. 37 00:02:44,046 --> 00:02:47,466 Speaker 3: That was the socioeconomics of Malibu. But like, I come 38 00:02:47,486 --> 00:02:49,626 Speaker 3: to that from wanting to be in show business and 39 00:02:49,666 --> 00:02:52,906 Speaker 3: knowing nothing and having nothing like that in Ohio. And 40 00:02:52,946 --> 00:02:55,506 Speaker 3: my mind was blown, blown never to recover. 41 00:02:56,856 --> 00:02:59,336 Speaker 2: His mom rented a little ranch house on Point Doom. 42 00:02:59,916 --> 00:03:02,376 Speaker 2: It had a corral for horses in the back, built 43 00:03:02,436 --> 00:03:04,736 Speaker 2: out of wood from the set of Planet of the Apes. 44 00:03:05,866 --> 00:03:11,386 Speaker 3: It was magic. It was. You just smelled sage and eucalyptus. 45 00:03:12,646 --> 00:03:15,126 Speaker 3: And I remember the ants. I remember I'd never seen 46 00:03:15,146 --> 00:03:17,356 Speaker 3: so many ants. The ants would come out of the 47 00:03:17,396 --> 00:03:23,616 Speaker 3: electrical sockets. The apocryphal legend was that the captain and 48 00:03:23,676 --> 00:03:27,636 Speaker 3: Tennille had recorded Love Will Keep Us Together. in a 49 00:03:28,136 --> 00:03:31,136 Speaker 3: makeshift studio at the house in what became my bedroom. 50 00:03:32,196 --> 00:03:35,316 Speaker 2: The way he describes Malibu back then, it was surreal, 51 00:03:35,796 --> 00:03:39,036 Speaker 2: like a dream, populated by faces from your TV set. 52 00:03:40,496 --> 00:03:42,456 Speaker 3: You'd go to our elementary school and it would be 53 00:03:42,516 --> 00:03:45,916 Speaker 3: shut down for the day because Farrah Fawcett majors would 54 00:03:45,936 --> 00:03:49,956 Speaker 3: be filming Charlie's Angels. Linda Ronstadt would come to my 55 00:03:49,996 --> 00:03:53,276 Speaker 3: talent show. We would come out on the playground and 56 00:03:53,726 --> 00:03:56,246 Speaker 3: and hear planes flying above, and they would be shooting 57 00:03:56,296 --> 00:03:59,676 Speaker 3: the air battle sequences for the TV show Baba Black Sheep. 58 00:04:00,776 --> 00:04:03,396 Speaker 3: Fonzie jumped the shark. The famous phrase about a show 59 00:04:03,456 --> 00:04:05,996 Speaker 3: jumping the shark? I saw Fonzie jump the shark. He 60 00:04:06,016 --> 00:04:08,096 Speaker 3: jumped the shark at Paradise Cove, in front of the 61 00:04:08,136 --> 00:04:10,236 Speaker 3: house my grandparents would rent in the winters. 62 00:04:11,816 --> 00:04:15,056 Speaker 2: And on Fourth of July, the fancy, famous people would 63 00:04:15,086 --> 00:04:17,946 Speaker 2: throw a big party, and everyone was invited. 64 00:04:17,966 --> 00:04:21,446 Speaker 3: There were big rock stars, and they were all in 65 00:04:21,486 --> 00:04:25,706 Speaker 3: the colony. Um, I have great memories of the colony 66 00:04:25,766 --> 00:04:27,906 Speaker 3: and the 4th of July, which was such a thing. 67 00:04:28,446 --> 00:04:31,686 Speaker 3: It was an open house. You would literally walk into 68 00:04:32,466 --> 00:04:34,806 Speaker 3: house after house after house that you didn't even know 69 00:04:34,866 --> 00:04:37,306 Speaker 3: whose house it was. And I can remember walking into 70 00:04:37,346 --> 00:04:41,056 Speaker 3: a bedroom and seeing two naked people screwing. And it 71 00:04:41,116 --> 00:04:43,416 Speaker 3: was like an, just a, a literally like almost like 72 00:04:43,456 --> 00:04:47,036 Speaker 3: an orgy drug and alcohol free for all. And you know, 73 00:04:47,076 --> 00:04:52,676 Speaker 3: that was like the Linda Ronstadt, Peter Asher, Larry Hagman. 74 00:04:53,656 --> 00:04:57,996 Speaker 3: Larry Hagman, that's the famous, that's a well-documented story. You know, 75 00:04:58,036 --> 00:05:01,276 Speaker 3: when he was the cat's meow in Dallas. Now we're 76 00:05:01,556 --> 00:05:03,556 Speaker 3: obviously a little bit later in the timeline, but he 77 00:05:03,576 --> 00:05:08,416 Speaker 3: would legitimately lead a parade down the beach wearing an 78 00:05:08,536 --> 00:05:12,816 Speaker 3: Indian headdress every night at sunset. And you could join 79 00:05:12,906 --> 00:05:15,226 Speaker 3: in or not join in, and that's what he did. 80 00:05:16,566 --> 00:05:19,646 Speaker 2: But even more reliable than the colony for a starstruck 81 00:05:19,686 --> 00:05:23,006 Speaker 2: young Rob Lowe was the grocery store on Point Dume. 82 00:05:25,486 --> 00:05:27,066 Speaker 3: One of the biggest things on TV at the time 83 00:05:27,106 --> 00:05:30,096 Speaker 3: was the miniseries Rich Man, Poor Man. I loved it. 84 00:05:30,266 --> 00:05:32,306 Speaker 3: And Nick Nolte was the star. It was Nick Nolte's 85 00:05:32,346 --> 00:05:35,006 Speaker 3: first thing. And I would run into him at the market. 86 00:05:35,886 --> 00:05:38,066 Speaker 3: I remember, you know, this is also in the era 87 00:05:38,086 --> 00:05:42,226 Speaker 3: where Martin Sheen was always like protesting. I remember he 88 00:05:42,266 --> 00:05:43,846 Speaker 3: called me once and said, will you come down and 89 00:05:43,886 --> 00:05:47,506 Speaker 3: protest the market with me and Cesar Chavez over grapes? 90 00:05:47,526 --> 00:05:51,306 Speaker 3: I was like, no, I'm going to the beach. My girlfriend, Martin. 91 00:05:52,126 --> 00:05:54,216 Speaker 3: But I would go to that market and one day 92 00:05:54,236 --> 00:05:57,606 Speaker 3: I ran into Nick. And he's like, how's Martin, Gene? 93 00:05:57,626 --> 00:05:59,406 Speaker 3: You ever see Martin? I was like, you know, he's 94 00:05:59,486 --> 00:06:05,066 Speaker 3: actually on a political sabbatical in Nicaragua. And I remember 95 00:06:05,086 --> 00:06:08,826 Speaker 3: Nick going, Nicaragua! Nicaragua! 96 00:06:09,566 --> 00:06:10,426 Speaker 1: Nicaragua! 97 00:06:10,466 --> 00:06:14,176 Speaker 3: And like moving back with each time he said, Nicaragua! 98 00:06:14,556 --> 00:06:18,256 Speaker 3: Until he fell over into a stacked can of baked beans. 99 00:06:19,496 --> 00:06:20,656 Speaker 1: Nicaragua! 100 00:06:21,456 --> 00:06:27,426 Speaker 3: Clank, clank, clank, clank, clank, clank on his back. And 101 00:06:27,466 --> 00:06:30,886 Speaker 3: then there was a great time where my mom was like, 102 00:06:31,346 --> 00:06:33,986 Speaker 3: that's Steve McQueen, Robbie. That's Steve McQueen. 103 00:06:35,266 --> 00:06:37,706 Speaker 2: Steve McQueen was a movie star who was married to 104 00:06:37,766 --> 00:06:40,916 Speaker 2: another movie star, Ali McGraw. You heard her in the 105 00:06:40,976 --> 00:06:44,596 Speaker 2: first episode of this season. Ali and Steve had discovered 106 00:06:44,656 --> 00:06:47,356 Speaker 2: Malibu in the early 70s, and they ended up on 107 00:06:47,396 --> 00:06:51,056 Speaker 2: Broad Beach. They were pioneers. This is Ali. 108 00:06:52,336 --> 00:06:54,956 Speaker 4: Well, first of all, I'm from New York, and I 109 00:06:54,996 --> 00:06:59,486 Speaker 4: found myself living in Beverly Hills, actually, when I married 110 00:06:59,806 --> 00:07:02,616 Speaker 4: Bob Evans, and we had a child, and when that 111 00:07:02,676 --> 00:07:08,036 Speaker 4: marriage broke up, I married Steve McQueen, and we decided 112 00:07:08,076 --> 00:07:11,176 Speaker 4: we wanted to get far away from the center of L.A. 113 00:07:12,876 --> 00:07:17,046 Speaker 4: It was a funky little movie theater, which was great, 114 00:07:17,106 --> 00:07:20,126 Speaker 4: next to a pizza place owned by one of my 115 00:07:20,226 --> 00:07:26,036 Speaker 4: son's friends' families, and John's Garden, which was this huge 116 00:07:26,136 --> 00:07:31,516 Speaker 4: kind of perpetual farmer's market with wonderful food next to 117 00:07:31,556 --> 00:07:36,356 Speaker 4: a sandlot playground that Fred Siegel had created where all 118 00:07:36,376 --> 00:07:39,476 Speaker 4: the kids just played while we ate sandwiches and caught 119 00:07:39,536 --> 00:07:42,776 Speaker 4: up and a place to buy blue jeans and bathing suits. 120 00:07:43,416 --> 00:07:50,336 Speaker 4: It wasn't this repository of somebody's sixth home. You know, 121 00:07:50,376 --> 00:07:53,316 Speaker 4: we really lived there. We shopped at the grocery store. 122 00:07:53,376 --> 00:07:57,746 Speaker 4: We walked our dogs. We went to the school, the 123 00:07:57,786 --> 00:08:02,626 Speaker 4: public school, and participated with our kids. And that's what 124 00:08:02,666 --> 00:08:05,906 Speaker 4: I wanted as a childhood for my kid. I don't 125 00:08:05,946 --> 00:08:08,096 Speaker 4: know how I would have done it in Beverly Hills. 126 00:08:11,236 --> 00:08:13,036 Speaker 2: Back to Rob's Steve McQueen story. 127 00:08:14,236 --> 00:08:16,436 Speaker 3: And I'm like, sort of vaguely knew who Steve McQueen 128 00:08:16,476 --> 00:08:19,996 Speaker 3: was because in the mid-70s, he was, you know, he 129 00:08:20,036 --> 00:08:22,576 Speaker 3: had a kind of cold streak, but I knew he 130 00:08:22,596 --> 00:08:26,646 Speaker 3: was famous enough. And I was an audacious kid. And 131 00:08:26,666 --> 00:08:28,446 Speaker 3: I went up to him and said, excuse me, sir. 132 00:08:28,866 --> 00:08:30,606 Speaker 3: Could I have your autograph? And he looked at me. First, 133 00:08:30,626 --> 00:08:35,396 Speaker 3: he smelled like an animal with a five o'clock beard 134 00:08:35,596 --> 00:08:38,676 Speaker 3: and this shirt untucked, really dirty. And he was carrying 135 00:08:38,696 --> 00:08:42,796 Speaker 3: like four six-packs of beer. And he goes, why do 136 00:08:42,816 --> 00:08:48,016 Speaker 3: you want my autograph, kid? I ain't no one. Never 137 00:08:48,056 --> 00:08:51,746 Speaker 3: forgot that. I ain't no one. And then there were 138 00:08:51,766 --> 00:08:55,316 Speaker 3: the people... who were like seeing Sasquatch or the Loch 139 00:08:55,356 --> 00:08:58,016 Speaker 3: Ness Monster, where you knew they were around, you were 140 00:08:58,076 --> 00:09:00,536 Speaker 3: told they were around, but meanwhile, you'd never seen them. 141 00:09:00,556 --> 00:09:03,766 Speaker 3: And that would be like Barbara Streisand. Nobody ever saw Barbara. 142 00:09:04,486 --> 00:09:07,366 Speaker 3: I mean, Barbara's a legend. I've gotten to luckily become 143 00:09:07,426 --> 00:09:10,206 Speaker 3: very good friends with her, but I didn't know her then. 144 00:09:10,386 --> 00:09:13,426 Speaker 3: And that's in that era, like that sort of what's 145 00:09:13,526 --> 00:09:17,796 Speaker 3: up doc, star is born, Chris Christopherson, he would have 146 00:09:17,816 --> 00:09:24,196 Speaker 3: been around a little bit. Just unbelievable. Unbelievable times. And then, 147 00:09:24,276 --> 00:09:26,656 Speaker 3: you know, there was the moment when Bob Dylan secretly 148 00:09:26,726 --> 00:09:29,306 Speaker 3: bought up a bunch of properties on Point Doom where 149 00:09:29,366 --> 00:09:33,186 Speaker 3: I lived. That started that level of people coming in. 150 00:09:33,206 --> 00:09:36,206 Speaker 3: And then, of course, Johnny Carson was the very first 151 00:09:36,506 --> 00:09:38,976 Speaker 3: sort of establishment. You don't get any more establishment than 152 00:09:38,996 --> 00:09:39,536 Speaker 3: Johnny Carson. 153 00:09:42,436 --> 00:09:47,296 Speaker 2: And the music being recorded in Malibu, it was legendary, culture-changing. 154 00:09:48,226 --> 00:09:52,196 Speaker 2: Neil Young, Bob Dylan, and the band. And everyone was 155 00:09:52,236 --> 00:09:55,976 Speaker 2: recording at Robbie Robertson's studio overlooking Zuma Beach. 156 00:09:57,116 --> 00:10:01,676 Speaker 1: We found out it used to be a bordello, this place, 157 00:10:01,736 --> 00:10:03,266 Speaker 1: that was called Shangri-La. 158 00:10:04,186 --> 00:10:07,366 Speaker 2: That's Robertson, who we also heard from in episode one. 159 00:10:08,546 --> 00:10:14,866 Speaker 1: It used to be a bordello for cowboys, cowpokes. There 160 00:10:14,906 --> 00:10:17,816 Speaker 1: was a lot of ranches out there. This was a ranch. 161 00:10:19,046 --> 00:10:22,716 Speaker 1: So we thought, wow, this place is perfect. So we 162 00:10:22,816 --> 00:10:28,326 Speaker 1: turned it into something. And then... Over a period of time, 163 00:10:28,586 --> 00:10:34,836 Speaker 1: more and more music people started gravitating out to Malibu. 164 00:10:35,356 --> 00:10:38,436 Speaker 1: And people wanted to use this studio because it was cool. 165 00:10:39,156 --> 00:10:45,186 Speaker 1: And it still exists. Rick Rubin, the music producer, he 166 00:10:45,226 --> 00:10:48,706 Speaker 1: has it now. And it's as beautiful as ever. 167 00:10:51,246 --> 00:10:54,106 Speaker 2: All that got rolled into the Malibu myth, which young 168 00:10:54,146 --> 00:10:55,996 Speaker 2: Rob Lowe spooned up with his Wheaties. 169 00:10:57,386 --> 00:10:58,966 Speaker 3: You know, the other thing I love is that great 170 00:10:59,026 --> 00:11:05,286 Speaker 3: song from 1979 called Gold. That's when the lights go 171 00:11:05,386 --> 00:11:11,466 Speaker 3: down in the California town, people are in for the evening. 172 00:11:11,546 --> 00:11:15,366 Speaker 3: That song. It's Stevie Nicks singing duet in the great 173 00:11:15,406 --> 00:11:19,426 Speaker 3: line driving over Canaan, singing to the soul because people 174 00:11:19,466 --> 00:11:21,806 Speaker 3: out there turn the music into gold. 175 00:11:23,506 --> 00:11:26,246 Speaker 2: So clearly the adults were having a grand old time. 176 00:11:27,226 --> 00:11:31,366 Speaker 2: But what about the kids? That's coming up right after 177 00:11:31,406 --> 00:11:46,726 Speaker 2: the break. In just about every interview I've done about 178 00:11:46,766 --> 00:11:49,426 Speaker 2: Malibu in the three years I've been making Lost Hills, 179 00:11:50,386 --> 00:11:52,566 Speaker 2: there comes a point where the person I'm talking to 180 00:11:53,066 --> 00:11:57,256 Speaker 2: brings up the energy. With Rob Lowe, it happened at 181 00:11:57,276 --> 00:11:59,416 Speaker 2: minute 14. 182 00:11:59,416 --> 00:12:02,636 Speaker 3: I actually think there's an element to it of, and 183 00:12:02,676 --> 00:12:05,616 Speaker 3: this is going to sound very, I don't know, woohoo, 184 00:12:06,236 --> 00:12:10,796 Speaker 3: is there's an energy in Malibu, sort of a karmic 185 00:12:11,686 --> 00:12:17,626 Speaker 3: mana something there. I really believe that, that's really attractive 186 00:12:17,746 --> 00:12:22,126 Speaker 3: and exciting, but there's a real devil's bargain. And I 187 00:12:22,166 --> 00:12:25,166 Speaker 3: think a lot of it, I swear to God, has 188 00:12:25,206 --> 00:12:28,786 Speaker 3: to do with Malibu itself. I don't know if that's 189 00:12:29,286 --> 00:12:33,326 Speaker 3: shoemash Indian stuff or what. Listen, if there's such a 190 00:12:33,346 --> 00:12:35,886 Speaker 3: thing as a vortex and that there's a vortex that 191 00:12:35,906 --> 00:12:39,096 Speaker 3: you could tap into or go looking for, if those 192 00:12:39,116 --> 00:12:42,116 Speaker 3: things exist, then there's definitely one there. For sure. 193 00:12:44,496 --> 00:12:47,256 Speaker 2: What he means is shit got real out there on 194 00:12:47,316 --> 00:12:47,856 Speaker 2: Point Doom. 195 00:12:48,696 --> 00:12:51,376 Speaker 3: What people don't realize about Malibu in that exact era, 196 00:12:52,196 --> 00:12:57,436 Speaker 3: I moved there in the bicentennial summer of 76 and 197 00:12:57,956 --> 00:13:07,296 Speaker 3: lived there pretty much full time until 86, was how 198 00:13:07,576 --> 00:13:14,756 Speaker 3: rugged and violent and dark it was, in addition to 199 00:13:14,996 --> 00:13:18,206 Speaker 3: all of the other things. I always say like the 200 00:13:18,296 --> 00:13:21,786 Speaker 3: toughest white people I think that I ever encountered that 201 00:13:22,026 --> 00:13:24,786 Speaker 3: I could ever imagine would have been a local resident 202 00:13:24,846 --> 00:13:29,346 Speaker 3: in Malibu in 1976. Man, white people can be tough. 203 00:13:29,906 --> 00:13:32,686 Speaker 3: And whenever I run into like Sean Penn, we like 204 00:13:32,706 --> 00:13:35,786 Speaker 3: look at each other and go, dude, oh, fuck, dude, 205 00:13:36,146 --> 00:13:38,626 Speaker 3: we have to do a movie about our childhoods. 206 00:13:39,656 --> 00:13:42,756 Speaker 2: Rob Lowe, he's a writer, too, and he's written about 207 00:13:42,816 --> 00:13:46,506 Speaker 2: what he calls the savage undercurrent that ran through Malibu 208 00:13:46,546 --> 00:13:47,166 Speaker 2: in those days. 209 00:13:48,726 --> 00:13:51,366 Speaker 3: I went to, it's now the high school. It's now 210 00:13:51,386 --> 00:13:54,586 Speaker 3: called Malibu, whatever the hell it is, high school. When 211 00:13:54,666 --> 00:13:58,286 Speaker 3: I went to their seventh, eighth, ninth grade, three years, 212 00:13:59,966 --> 00:14:05,146 Speaker 3: eight kids died. Now, today, if eight kids died in 213 00:14:05,186 --> 00:14:07,986 Speaker 3: a school over the course of three years, it would 214 00:14:08,026 --> 00:14:11,746 Speaker 3: be headlines. And there would be uproars, and there would 215 00:14:11,766 --> 00:14:14,786 Speaker 3: be panels, and there would be think pieces, and there 216 00:14:14,806 --> 00:14:20,426 Speaker 3: would be, you know, Malibu Strong slogans and everything else. 217 00:14:21,426 --> 00:14:23,286 Speaker 3: And in those days, you'd be like, yeah, no, that 218 00:14:23,306 --> 00:14:24,906 Speaker 3: was pretty radical, wasn't it? Okay, next. 219 00:14:26,246 --> 00:14:30,446 Speaker 2: There were kids, so clearly there were parents somewhere. But 220 00:14:30,466 --> 00:14:33,046 Speaker 2: they weren't, as a rule, raising their kids. 221 00:14:34,266 --> 00:14:37,856 Speaker 3: There was no parenting. I never saw parents, ever. And 222 00:14:37,866 --> 00:14:42,646 Speaker 3: in fact, my brother... was given his first joint by 223 00:14:42,706 --> 00:14:50,446 Speaker 3: his best friend's mother in the fifth grade. And the 224 00:14:50,486 --> 00:14:55,326 Speaker 3: great quote was, she wanted to, quote, smoke him out. Hey, 225 00:14:55,346 --> 00:14:58,506 Speaker 3: you want to get smoked out? And she, of course, 226 00:14:58,576 --> 00:15:01,916 Speaker 3: also had a waterbed with a gigantic vibrator that she 227 00:15:01,956 --> 00:15:04,056 Speaker 3: hid underneath it. And that was also a big moment 228 00:15:04,116 --> 00:15:06,416 Speaker 3: in my brother's development, finding that. 229 00:15:07,856 --> 00:15:12,036 Speaker 2: The adults were finding themselves. in a big orgy of self-involvement, 230 00:15:12,696 --> 00:15:15,236 Speaker 2: which was happening on top of a mountain of cocaine. 231 00:15:16,456 --> 00:15:21,896 Speaker 3: So it was the sort of burn-your-bra movement had kind 232 00:15:21,956 --> 00:15:25,696 Speaker 3: of happened. You know, whenever something big culturally happens, there's 233 00:15:25,716 --> 00:15:30,116 Speaker 3: that moment of, okay, now what? That had happened. Divorce 234 00:15:30,226 --> 00:15:35,426 Speaker 3: had become not a scarlet letter for the first time. Like, 235 00:15:35,466 --> 00:15:39,086 Speaker 3: everybody was, everyone was doing it. You know, everybody was doing, like, S'd. 236 00:15:40,286 --> 00:15:43,586 Speaker 3: Everybody was, Est was a big thing. Everybody was doing Est. 237 00:15:44,186 --> 00:15:46,766 Speaker 3: And everybody was, we thought, you know, Coke had just 238 00:15:46,986 --> 00:15:52,306 Speaker 3: gone from sort of the rock and roll culture into suburbia. 239 00:15:53,486 --> 00:15:56,786 Speaker 3: And it was still good for you. You know, that 240 00:15:56,846 --> 00:15:58,666 Speaker 3: was the thing. It was good for you. Helped you think. 241 00:16:00,166 --> 00:16:04,436 Speaker 3: And it's what successful people did, don't you know? So, like, 242 00:16:04,576 --> 00:16:06,456 Speaker 3: those were all of the, and there were only two 243 00:16:06,496 --> 00:16:10,816 Speaker 3: types of pot. Maui Waui. And how hilarious is that name? 244 00:16:11,256 --> 00:16:14,656 Speaker 3: Maui Waui. And what was the other one? Gosh, I 245 00:16:14,696 --> 00:16:16,836 Speaker 3: was never a pot guy, so I don't know. Two 246 00:16:16,876 --> 00:16:17,756 Speaker 3: types of pot. That was it. 247 00:16:19,816 --> 00:16:24,466 Speaker 2: Do you remember the moment when Coke came in to Malibu? 248 00:16:25,306 --> 00:16:25,666 Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. 249 00:16:26,286 --> 00:16:29,886 Speaker 3: One hundred percent. I, you know, I'd moved to Malibu 250 00:16:29,906 --> 00:16:33,106 Speaker 3: from from Dayton, Ohio and Dayton, Dayton, Ohio was very, 251 00:16:33,126 --> 00:16:36,216 Speaker 3: very different, to put it mildly. And I was never 252 00:16:36,246 --> 00:16:40,066 Speaker 3: really accepted by the cool kids because I didn't surf. Um, 253 00:16:40,386 --> 00:16:43,886 Speaker 3: and I didn't play beach volleyball. I played tackle football, 254 00:16:45,006 --> 00:16:50,246 Speaker 3: wiffle ball, baseball. Those are my sports. Volleyball was not 255 00:16:50,406 --> 00:16:52,406 Speaker 3: on my thing. And like, if you didn't do one 256 00:16:52,426 --> 00:16:54,836 Speaker 3: of those two things, you were not a guy. And 257 00:16:54,856 --> 00:16:56,476 Speaker 3: then of course I wanted to be an actor and 258 00:16:56,596 --> 00:16:58,856 Speaker 3: no one wanted to be an actor then. Like it 259 00:16:58,956 --> 00:17:01,516 Speaker 3: just was even in, I thought moving to California, everybody 260 00:17:01,556 --> 00:17:03,996 Speaker 3: would be an actor and it was not true. They 261 00:17:04,016 --> 00:17:07,956 Speaker 3: were equally as flummoxed by a 13-year-old wanting to be 262 00:17:07,996 --> 00:17:10,736 Speaker 3: an actor as the kids were in Dayton. Anyway, so 263 00:17:10,776 --> 00:17:14,136 Speaker 3: I was never really accepted by the cool kids. But 264 00:17:14,176 --> 00:17:18,976 Speaker 3: I did get to one cool kid's birthday party. It 265 00:17:19,016 --> 00:17:22,436 Speaker 3: was her seventh-grade birthday party, and the big gift she 266 00:17:22,476 --> 00:17:26,696 Speaker 3: got from her seventh-grade best friend was a two-gram vial 267 00:17:26,716 --> 00:17:32,666 Speaker 3: of Coke. And I remember that. I was like, wow. Okay, 268 00:17:32,926 --> 00:17:37,896 Speaker 3: I am in the inner sanctum of Malibu Cool. Seventh grade. 269 00:17:38,976 --> 00:17:44,876 Speaker 3: I'm going to say 70, 78, 70, let's say 78. 270 00:17:45,136 --> 00:17:46,996 Speaker 3: And I remember it was in that, you know, those, 271 00:17:47,056 --> 00:17:52,656 Speaker 3: those like copper colored bottles with the black top screw 272 00:17:52,756 --> 00:17:55,396 Speaker 3: on top with a, with a, with a chain and 273 00:17:55,416 --> 00:17:57,006 Speaker 3: a Coke spoon hanging off of it. 274 00:17:58,236 --> 00:17:59,836 Speaker 2: And do you think she had got, this kid had 275 00:17:59,856 --> 00:18:02,016 Speaker 2: gotten it from her parents or how, I mean, like 276 00:18:02,036 --> 00:18:03,636 Speaker 2: stolen it from her parents or how do you think 277 00:18:03,656 --> 00:18:07,026 Speaker 2: you even get Coke when you're 14 years. 278 00:18:06,986 --> 00:18:08,186 Speaker 1: Old in Malibu. 279 00:18:09,806 --> 00:18:14,696 Speaker 3: Well, I mean, you know, I know of one parent 280 00:18:14,716 --> 00:18:17,416 Speaker 3: who kept their Coke in their sock drawer and the 281 00:18:17,456 --> 00:18:18,896 Speaker 3: entire neighborhood knew where it was. 282 00:18:20,336 --> 00:18:24,236 Speaker 2: But if all the parents are kind of acting like teenagers, 283 00:18:24,276 --> 00:18:27,146 Speaker 2: I guess, on this sort of quest for identity, then 284 00:18:27,166 --> 00:18:28,886 Speaker 2: where does that leave the kids? 285 00:18:29,266 --> 00:18:34,986 Speaker 3: It leaves us running around in the gullies, smoking dope, and... 286 00:18:35,936 --> 00:18:39,536 Speaker 3: Eight kids getting killed, overdosing on strychnine, which they think 287 00:18:39,596 --> 00:18:43,876 Speaker 3: is coke and turns out it's rat poison. Or quaaludes 288 00:18:44,436 --> 00:18:46,036 Speaker 3: and then deciding to go into the ocean for a 289 00:18:46,096 --> 00:18:50,826 Speaker 3: swim and never being seen again. Or being on another 290 00:18:50,866 --> 00:18:53,666 Speaker 3: friend of mine on his 10-speed bike coming down Selfridge. 291 00:18:53,786 --> 00:18:55,686 Speaker 3: Something goes wrong with the bike. He crashes into a 292 00:18:55,746 --> 00:18:59,246 Speaker 3: tree and a stick goes through his eye and he dies. 293 00:19:00,126 --> 00:19:02,886 Speaker 3: It's just like, not only did the kids die, but 294 00:19:02,906 --> 00:19:08,476 Speaker 3: they died in really like, horrible ways. You know, based 295 00:19:08,716 --> 00:19:12,996 Speaker 3: on the times, we were all freaked out about it 296 00:19:13,076 --> 00:19:15,666 Speaker 3: for about a week. And then you kind of moved on. 297 00:19:15,696 --> 00:19:18,626 Speaker 3: Nobody's ever said anything. There's never anything in the paper 298 00:19:18,646 --> 00:19:19,546 Speaker 3: that I remember. 299 00:19:20,566 --> 00:19:20,846 Speaker 1: Nothing. 300 00:19:22,306 --> 00:19:25,586 Speaker 2: Disturbing stuff would happen all the time, like one long 301 00:19:25,746 --> 00:19:29,426 Speaker 2: after-school special. All the blonde kids in OP shorts and 302 00:19:29,466 --> 00:19:33,006 Speaker 2: hang-tan shirts, but with a bizarro celebrity twist. 303 00:19:34,246 --> 00:19:36,786 Speaker 3: Do you know another great story is when Bob Dylan 304 00:19:37,066 --> 00:19:44,916 Speaker 3: was going through a custody battle and his wife sent 305 00:19:45,066 --> 00:19:50,476 Speaker 3: a bunch of goons into Mr. Seals' sixth grade class 306 00:19:50,716 --> 00:19:55,096 Speaker 3: at Point Doom Elementary to kidnap the kids. And they 307 00:19:55,116 --> 00:20:02,816 Speaker 3: hid in the closets. while these guys ransacked the classroom. Gnarly. 308 00:20:03,256 --> 00:20:05,926 Speaker 3: Really super gnarly. My brother was in the class when 309 00:20:05,986 --> 00:20:11,286 Speaker 3: it happened. Really insane. Police, like the whole... And again, today, 310 00:20:11,306 --> 00:20:16,666 Speaker 3: that'd be TMZ for a year they'd be talking about it. 311 00:20:19,486 --> 00:20:22,386 Speaker 3: This kid, I can see his face in my mind's eye, 312 00:20:22,406 --> 00:20:28,086 Speaker 3: in his name. I wouldn't give his name because he 313 00:20:28,126 --> 00:20:31,106 Speaker 3: survived this. But it was a kid in my school, 314 00:20:31,306 --> 00:20:38,006 Speaker 3: again in junior high, who was hitchhiking on Canaan. Got 315 00:20:38,046 --> 00:20:42,296 Speaker 3: picked up, and the guy took him into the woods 316 00:20:42,916 --> 00:20:47,396 Speaker 3: and chained him to a tree and took a pair 317 00:20:47,416 --> 00:20:52,246 Speaker 3: of tweezers out and tweezed out every one of his 318 00:20:52,326 --> 00:20:57,046 Speaker 3: pubic hairs. As I hear myself say it, it sounds 319 00:20:57,066 --> 00:20:57,626 Speaker 3: like bullshit. 320 00:20:58,526 --> 00:20:59,286 Speaker 2: It's a ghost story. 321 00:20:59,306 --> 00:21:00,906 Speaker 1: Yeah. 322 00:21:01,526 --> 00:21:01,986 Speaker 3: Insane. 323 00:21:02,966 --> 00:21:04,686 Speaker 4: Insane. Insane. 324 00:21:04,726 --> 00:21:06,686 Speaker 2: And I'm sure nobody ever found the guy or caught 325 00:21:06,706 --> 00:21:07,346 Speaker 2: the guy. 326 00:21:08,566 --> 00:21:12,986 Speaker 3: No! No! Are you kidding? Nobody ever said a word. 327 00:21:13,046 --> 00:21:16,686 Speaker 3: It was like, oh, wow, no way! Yeah, way. Dude, 328 00:21:16,726 --> 00:21:19,206 Speaker 3: that's so gnarly. And nothing. 329 00:21:19,386 --> 00:21:19,606 Speaker 1: No. 330 00:21:20,386 --> 00:21:24,946 Speaker 3: Announcement at the school, no counseling, no, like, it just was, 331 00:21:25,586 --> 00:21:27,226 Speaker 3: I mean, he just, the one thing is he never 332 00:21:27,246 --> 00:21:29,086 Speaker 3: came back to school. He was just gone. 333 00:21:31,276 --> 00:21:34,856 Speaker 2: Then there was Paul Hackett, the first kid Rob Lowe 334 00:21:34,916 --> 00:21:39,966 Speaker 2: knew who got famous. A Malibu demigod and a skateboarding legend. 335 00:21:40,806 --> 00:22:12,306 Speaker 2: His story is after the break. Paul Hackett, the Malibu 336 00:22:12,326 --> 00:22:17,446 Speaker 2: skater kid, made the cover of Skateboarder magazine in 1977, 337 00:22:17,446 --> 00:22:20,846 Speaker 2: which for Malibu kids was supernova stardom. 338 00:22:21,946 --> 00:22:23,956 Speaker 3: Paul Hackett was the first person I ever knew who 339 00:22:23,996 --> 00:22:31,996 Speaker 3: had his own poster. And he was gorgeous. Crystal blue eyes, handsome. 340 00:22:32,656 --> 00:22:36,046 Speaker 3: Every girl loved him. I was super jealous of him. 341 00:22:36,056 --> 00:22:38,206 Speaker 3: I think he was like two years older than I was. 342 00:22:39,206 --> 00:22:41,886 Speaker 3: And he was a skateboarder. And this is that's the 343 00:22:41,906 --> 00:22:46,606 Speaker 3: other thing that was huge then. Not this thrashing skate 344 00:22:46,666 --> 00:22:49,946 Speaker 3: park shit that we have now, but like, you know, 345 00:22:50,666 --> 00:22:53,906 Speaker 3: Lords of Dogtown, like that kind of like real skateboarding. 346 00:22:53,926 --> 00:22:58,146 Speaker 3: You know, find abandoned pools and skate. And it was 347 00:22:58,466 --> 00:23:02,936 Speaker 3: it was very sort of counterculture and punk rock and badass. 348 00:23:02,996 --> 00:23:07,416 Speaker 3: And kids were super tough who did it. Nobody wore pads. 349 00:23:08,176 --> 00:23:11,846 Speaker 3: And Paul Hackett was the star. He was on the cover. 350 00:23:11,886 --> 00:23:13,106 Speaker 3: First person I ever knew to be on the cover 351 00:23:13,126 --> 00:23:17,866 Speaker 3: of a magazine. Skateboarder magazine. And the first person who 352 00:23:18,406 --> 00:23:21,026 Speaker 3: did what they call an aerial, which sounds quaint to 353 00:23:21,106 --> 00:23:24,606 Speaker 3: even say today. That's when you take your skateboard and 354 00:23:24,966 --> 00:23:27,766 Speaker 3: fly up over the lip of the pool, which is now, 355 00:23:27,976 --> 00:23:32,336 Speaker 3: any kid does that. But in the day, it was revolutionary. Well, 356 00:23:32,656 --> 00:23:37,556 Speaker 3: Paul Hackett one day, I think took some PCP and 357 00:23:39,056 --> 00:23:41,986 Speaker 3: came home to his parents' house at the top of 358 00:23:42,536 --> 00:23:44,566 Speaker 3: what was then called Sunset Mesa, I think it still 359 00:23:44,606 --> 00:23:47,906 Speaker 3: may be, up by the Getty at the bottom of Malibu, 360 00:23:48,866 --> 00:23:50,746 Speaker 3: and asked his mom to make him a sandwich. His 361 00:23:50,786 --> 00:23:54,026 Speaker 3: dad was watching TV. And he'd been up all night, 362 00:23:55,046 --> 00:23:56,666 Speaker 3: and I won't even tell you what he'd been doing 363 00:23:56,686 --> 00:24:00,506 Speaker 3: before he got home, because that's for offline, but it 364 00:24:00,566 --> 00:24:03,126 Speaker 3: was kind of gross and weird. But he asked his 365 00:24:03,166 --> 00:24:05,346 Speaker 3: mom to make him a sandwich. She started to make 366 00:24:05,366 --> 00:24:07,346 Speaker 3: him a sandwich, walked away from the knife. He picked 367 00:24:07,366 --> 00:24:10,666 Speaker 3: it up and stabbed her to death. As the dad 368 00:24:10,706 --> 00:24:17,446 Speaker 3: watched TV. He then took his skateboard and skated. If 369 00:24:17,466 --> 00:24:21,746 Speaker 3: you've ever been to Sunset Mesa, it's way steeper than 370 00:24:21,786 --> 00:24:23,656 Speaker 3: Gray Fox and really longer. And he tried to commit 371 00:24:23,696 --> 00:24:27,536 Speaker 3: suicide by skating all the way down and through PCH. 372 00:24:27,556 --> 00:24:31,476 Speaker 3: It's at light, you know, hoping to get by a car. 373 00:24:31,956 --> 00:24:34,746 Speaker 3: Didn't get hit by a car. Pick the skateboard back up. 374 00:24:34,956 --> 00:24:37,156 Speaker 3: Walked all the way back up again. Did it again. 375 00:24:37,496 --> 00:24:39,776 Speaker 3: Didn't get hit by a car. ended up in what 376 00:24:39,816 --> 00:24:43,666 Speaker 3: was then the Camarillo Insane Asylum in a four-point tie. 377 00:24:44,906 --> 00:24:46,056 Speaker 3: And that was the last I ever heard of him. 378 00:24:49,186 --> 00:24:52,106 Speaker 2: Still, Lowe talks about his time in Malibu with a 379 00:24:52,186 --> 00:24:55,946 Speaker 2: ton of affection. He calls it a California Tom Sawyer 380 00:24:56,006 --> 00:24:58,746 Speaker 2: type of childhood. So I ask him why he didn't 381 00:24:58,806 --> 00:25:00,746 Speaker 2: stay and raise his own kids there. 382 00:25:02,006 --> 00:25:08,386 Speaker 3: That version of Malibu was gone when it became billionaire Roe. Look, 383 00:25:08,406 --> 00:25:11,506 Speaker 3: when I grew up there, there was one movie theater 384 00:25:12,206 --> 00:25:16,186 Speaker 3: and one record store. And you couldn't get a record 385 00:25:16,226 --> 00:25:19,806 Speaker 3: or a movie that was contemporary or new for over 386 00:25:19,846 --> 00:25:24,836 Speaker 3: a month. And now Malibu has everything. It has paparazzi. 387 00:25:25,976 --> 00:25:30,336 Speaker 3: That didn't happen. Today, if you go to get a Starbucks, 388 00:25:31,016 --> 00:25:34,736 Speaker 3: there's seven paparazzi taking your picture. That was unheard of. 389 00:25:35,856 --> 00:25:42,936 Speaker 3: And everybody's super wealthy. And so that Malibu I knew, 390 00:25:43,016 --> 00:25:46,776 Speaker 3: that sort of quaint ride your horse to the supermarket 391 00:25:47,216 --> 00:25:49,896 Speaker 3: was gone forever. So it was never an option to 392 00:25:49,976 --> 00:25:51,956 Speaker 3: raise them there. So I tried to find the next 393 00:25:52,016 --> 00:25:55,316 Speaker 3: best thing and I found Montecito and Santa Barbara, which 394 00:25:55,576 --> 00:25:59,536 Speaker 3: are the closest things. And that's now changed. But 28 395 00:25:59,536 --> 00:26:03,466 Speaker 3: years ago, Montecito, Santa Barbara was as close as I 396 00:26:03,506 --> 00:26:06,266 Speaker 3: could find in California to the Malibu I grew up in. 397 00:26:07,506 --> 00:26:10,346 Speaker 2: The one place he still feels the old Malibu is 398 00:26:10,406 --> 00:26:11,926 Speaker 2: Point Doom, where he grew up. 399 00:26:13,086 --> 00:26:17,506 Speaker 3: It has remained the most time-warped area of Malibu, I think, 400 00:26:17,566 --> 00:26:20,106 Speaker 3: to its credit. I will say, Point Doom, and I'm 401 00:26:20,126 --> 00:26:22,726 Speaker 3: there all the time because I go and I still 402 00:26:22,766 --> 00:26:24,036 Speaker 3: surf there and I have a friend who has it. 403 00:26:24,486 --> 00:26:27,366 Speaker 3: My friend has the only property with a private gate 404 00:26:28,066 --> 00:26:33,476 Speaker 3: onto the actual beach, which is extraordinary. And as you know, 405 00:26:33,516 --> 00:26:34,936 Speaker 3: it's gated and you have to have a key to 406 00:26:34,976 --> 00:26:37,816 Speaker 3: get in there. So I'm on Point Doom a lot. 407 00:26:38,196 --> 00:26:43,336 Speaker 3: The horses have been replaced with highfalutin, high-tech golf carts. 408 00:26:44,576 --> 00:26:47,536 Speaker 3: So now the kids rip around and their parents' golf carts. 409 00:26:47,956 --> 00:26:51,386 Speaker 3: It's the MILF capital of the world. There was one 410 00:26:51,446 --> 00:26:55,106 Speaker 3: MILF when I was there, and that was my friend's mom, 411 00:26:55,566 --> 00:26:58,206 Speaker 3: who looking back on it, she was probably all of 26. 412 00:26:58,206 --> 00:27:01,426 Speaker 3: She was a checkout girl at the Mayfair market, and 413 00:27:01,466 --> 00:27:03,946 Speaker 3: she's the one who hit her dildo under the bed 414 00:27:04,006 --> 00:27:07,416 Speaker 3: and smoked us out. But now, you know, all the 415 00:27:07,456 --> 00:27:11,166 Speaker 3: moms are particularly cute in Malibu and they're all driving 416 00:27:11,186 --> 00:27:14,446 Speaker 3: their tow-headed kids with their boogie boards and their gigantic, 417 00:27:15,186 --> 00:27:18,806 Speaker 3: you know, beach cruiser golf carts down to the thing. 418 00:27:19,126 --> 00:27:21,086 Speaker 3: But what's weird, what's happened now is all of those 419 00:27:21,106 --> 00:27:23,966 Speaker 3: little ranch houses are bought up by people who don't 420 00:27:24,046 --> 00:27:27,466 Speaker 3: live in them. So there's this weird thing now of 421 00:27:28,706 --> 00:27:33,796 Speaker 3: seasonal occupants that did not ever happen. So a lot 422 00:27:33,816 --> 00:27:36,356 Speaker 3: of people buy the houses just to surf, like, I 423 00:27:36,396 --> 00:27:38,716 Speaker 3: know a tech guy who bought a house, you know, 424 00:27:38,736 --> 00:27:41,076 Speaker 3: right on Gray Fox, and he's there, you know, only 425 00:27:41,096 --> 00:27:42,456 Speaker 3: when he wants to surf. The rest of the time 426 00:27:42,476 --> 00:27:44,676 Speaker 3: he's in the Bay Area. So, you know, it's different. 427 00:27:45,876 --> 00:27:52,036 Speaker 2: Rob Lowe's stories have this very particular Malibu quality. Sundazzled, gold-dusted, 428 00:27:52,496 --> 00:27:58,766 Speaker 2: but right under that, menace, fear, maybe death. Growing up 429 00:27:58,806 --> 00:28:02,326 Speaker 2: there was a wonderful trauma that he's still processing. 430 00:28:03,606 --> 00:28:07,376 Speaker 3: The people who survived it Like, whenever we see each other, we, like, 431 00:28:07,396 --> 00:28:10,596 Speaker 3: run and, like, clutch onto each other like debris in 432 00:28:10,616 --> 00:28:11,176 Speaker 3: a shipwreck. 433 00:28:12,716 --> 00:28:15,876 Speaker 2: He feels lucky to have lived in Malibu back then 434 00:28:16,836 --> 00:28:21,546 Speaker 2: and to have made it out alive. For more Rob Lowe, 435 00:28:21,646 --> 00:28:25,146 Speaker 2: check out his podcast, Literally with Rob Lowe, where he 436 00:28:25,186 --> 00:28:29,026 Speaker 2: talks to friends like Molly Ringwald and Jennifer Aniston. It's 437 00:28:29,066 --> 00:28:32,676 Speaker 2: in its second season and releasing new episodes. He's also 438 00:28:32,716 --> 00:28:35,356 Speaker 2: got a new podcast, which he co-hosts with Alan Yang, 439 00:28:35,496 --> 00:28:38,976 Speaker 2: called Parks and Recollection. It's all about their work on 440 00:28:39,016 --> 00:28:42,556 Speaker 2: Parks and Rec. As for me, we have another Season 441 00:28:42,556 --> 00:28:45,526 Speaker 2: 2 bonus episode coming up in a few weeks. Stay tuned. 442 00:28:48,386 --> 00:28:51,486 Speaker 2: Lost Hills is written and reported by me, Dana Goodyear. 443 00:28:51,866 --> 00:28:54,446 Speaker 2: It's created by me and Ben Adair and is a 444 00:28:54,466 --> 00:28:56,926 Speaker 2: production of Western Sound and Pushkin Industries.