1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,000 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stump Mom never told 3 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:17,079 Speaker 1: you from house Stop Works dot Com. Hey there, and 4 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:19,760 Speaker 1: welcome to the podcast. Is this Kristen And this is Molly, 5 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 1: So Molly right now? My favorite character on television, Mad Menicide. 6 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: Favorite character on television is a cheerleading coach. Really, yes, 7 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 1: tell us about her? Well, she is for traded by 8 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: one of my all time favorite comedic actresses who we 9 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 1: did not mention in our Women in Comedy episode. And 10 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:49,240 Speaker 1: I'm very sad to say, but now I'm going to 11 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: talk about her because she's awesome. And her name is 12 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: Jane Lynch. Yes, and she's hilarious and um, she's on 13 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 1: she plays a cheerleading coach, this insane psycho cheerleading coach 14 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 1: on the show Glee that's become pretty popular. And you know, 15 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 1: I can take or leave Glee. I usually I watch 16 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:12,040 Speaker 1: it on Hulu a lot, and uh, and I usually 17 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: just kind of fast forward through the musical numbers and 18 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 1: just so that I can have undiluted Jane Lynch um 19 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:23,399 Speaker 1: as uh Sue the crazy cheerleading coach over her team 20 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 1: of cheeriors, who she calls the Cheerios. So that's adorable. 21 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:29,400 Speaker 1: Oh no, it's not adorable, Molly, but it is hilarious. 22 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: I do like the name cheerious cheerious. I mean I 23 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: like serial too. Yeah, but they portray, you know, the 24 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 1: like the it's it's all about the sort of the 25 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: high school stereotypes of like the evil cheerleaders who are 26 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: out to get the lame, nerdy glee clubbers. And to 27 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 1: be honest, Molly, um, I really just wanted to talk 28 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: about Jane Lynch. There's no real point to that anecdote, 29 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: but it does play in nicely to this topic we're 30 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: talking about today, which is is cheering or should cheerleading 31 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 1: be considered a sport? Because I guarantee you that if 32 00:01:56,320 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 1: Sue had coach of the Cheerios, had her way, would 33 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 1: definitely be considered a sport, right. I wanted to start 34 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: the podcast with all sorts of cheers and whatnot, and 35 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: Kristen was like, no, I'm talking about Jane Lynch. Didn't 36 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 1: care to cheer this morning. I'm sorry, Molly. See I 37 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: almost put on a skirt this morning just to get ready. 38 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: But that just feeds into what we think of as 39 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:21,839 Speaker 1: the typical cheerleader in a skirt, loud yelling, scrunchy scrunchy, 40 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: yes and um, lots of flips, lots of clapping, basket tosses, 41 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: toe touches are my favorite. Yes, we did. We did 42 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: brush up on the cheerling terminology and preparation for this podcast. 43 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 1: I know, I know what a herkey is, and that 44 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:40,239 Speaker 1: really dives way into the history of cheerland that we 45 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: should talk about. Because for you understand cheerleading, you've gotta 46 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:46,919 Speaker 1: understand herkey and herkimer. Yes, so let's just dive in 47 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: with the first cheers, the first cheers, um, and because 48 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 1: that's weird to think about, because for me, cheering just 49 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: seems like a natural response to watching your favorite sports 50 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 1: team play. You gotta cheer, I mean before cheerleaders to 51 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 1: people just sit on their hands or do they do 52 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 1: snaps like people do in an avant garde cafe. People 53 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 1: always need a leader, Kristen. We're just blind sheep wandering around. 54 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: We need people designated to lead us in cheers. Yeah, 55 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: like someone to start the wave. If no one starts 56 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: the wave, yes, if it will never end, that's philosophical. 57 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: If no one starts, the wave will ever end. But 58 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 1: I doubt that was on the mind of the people 59 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:31,079 Speaker 1: watching the very first intercollegiate football game in eighteen sixty 60 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 1: nine at Princeton University. Yes, between Princeton and Rutgers. That's 61 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 1: probably gonna be the only sports fact I'll retain for 62 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: any sort of trivia contest. But the first intercollegiate football 63 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 1: game between Princeton and Rutgers, and the Princeton crowd got 64 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: in on the action and started shouting, shouting things like sis, 65 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: boom raw. I wonder how they came up with those syllables. 66 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: That's how they got into Princeton. I guess this boom raw. Yeah, 67 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 1: those are the kind of minds at Ivy League schools. 68 00:03:57,760 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: And so by the eighties they had formed a whole 69 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: hep club, but it was all male because back in 70 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: those days mostly men were going to college. And so 71 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: Princeton grad Thomas Peebles took all the cheers he learned 72 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: in Princeton and went to the University of Minnesota, and 73 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: Minnesota just ate all this cheering up. They were like, yes, 74 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 1: we loved it. Cheer. We're gonna have to fight songs. 75 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: Football is be gonna come a just up a dynamic 76 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: event to attend and then Molly. Something happened on November 77 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:29,720 Speaker 1: two when the University of Minnesota football team was down 78 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 1: for the count. He couldn't score. They were having a 79 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:36,040 Speaker 1: hard time getting that pigskin over the line. A man 80 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: named Johnny Campbell decided to do something about it, and 81 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:42,279 Speaker 1: he let a cheer. He let a cheer Molly that 82 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 1: would echo through the ages into today's football arenas. Okay, 83 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: Johnny Campbell started cheerleading. So on that day, the day 84 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: cheerleing was born, the day that will live in infamy, 85 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:58,159 Speaker 1: Well not infamy, Molly, but go ahead. He picked up 86 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: the megaphone. He had five have other men with him. 87 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: They were designated yell leaders, and they rallied the team 88 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:08,039 Speaker 1: to victory. Remember they've been in a slump, been in 89 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: a slum Minnesota, couldn't score by chatting raw raw raw 90 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 1: ski you ma hoorrah worrah varsity varsity Minnesota and a 91 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: little rhyme, I mean, how could cheerleading not catch on? 92 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: After that? And it did? The first organized cheerleading squadd 93 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:34,160 Speaker 1: was born, and as American Cheerleader wrote, no sporting event 94 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: would ever be the same would ever be the same. Yea. 95 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 1: So we have Johnny Campbell and his team of five 96 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 1: yell leaders with their with their raw ra Minnesota Cheer 97 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: and UH. For a while after that, the cheer squads 98 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:54,600 Speaker 1: were all male. Yes, And in nineteen three University of 99 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:57,600 Speaker 1: Minnesota had another milestone when they first welcomed women to 100 00:05:57,640 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: the field. So what we think of is this very 101 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: stereotypical female activity started as male and really didn't become 102 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 1: predominantly female until World War Two when all the men 103 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 1: went off to war. And then in the nineteen forties 104 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: we have a man named Lawrence Herkimer, Yes, the father 105 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: of the Herkey arrived on the scene. And Herkimer loved cheering, yes, 106 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: probably more than anything else in the world in his 107 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 1: in the entire world. Cheering was his life, even his 108 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: loved one. And he invented, and he invented the signature 109 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 1: cheer jump called the Herkey. And it's basically like a 110 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: split in the air, but your back leg is bent. 111 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 1: And it's funny because Herkey was a little embarrassed about 112 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: the form of that jump because it was supposed to 113 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: be a perfect split, but actually in its flaw was 114 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:56,720 Speaker 1: born the quintessential cheerleading maneuver. Yeah, this is the time 115 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: when I really behoove us to have some videos so 116 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: that Kristen could do some herkeys for you. She did 117 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 1: not seem enthused when she said that. But in he 118 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 1: officially incorporates the National Cheerleaders Association, and later on they're 119 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 1: gonna be a few more cheerleader associations. I read that 120 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 1: they all kind of have their own vibe, their own rules, 121 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: their own you know, things that they approve of in 122 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: the whole sharing spectrum. But this is the main one, 123 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: the first one, and another thing Hercy gave us. He 124 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: called it the shaker ru but then later it became 125 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 1: the pom po the pom pom. Well, he first called 126 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: a pom pawn because he heard that pom pom with 127 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: an M had vulgar connotations in other cultures. So Hercy, 128 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: thank you for trying to be politicularly incorrect, but we'll 129 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: take the pom pom. Pompon is just kind of hard 130 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: to say. Pompoon. Well, I thought it was a type 131 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: of when I was first reading it. But that's a 132 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: fun fact for you that it's technically a pom pawn 133 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 1: and the pompon is patented us patented so and he 134 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 1: also invented spirit sticks, which are kind of like pom 135 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: poms without the palm. I think a spirit that can 136 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 1: be anything. I mean, embody your spirit in it, Kristen. 137 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: Don't limit it to not having palms on it. Yeah. 138 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: And then we fast forward to the nineteen eighties, and 139 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 1: this is when cheerleading kind of goes on steroids, if 140 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 1: you will. That's not nice to cheerleaders, Kristen, Well, I 141 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: mean it metaphor molly, because this is the birth of 142 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: competitive cheerleading, when cheerleading really goes from the sidelines and 143 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: into the competition field room arena where they start doing 144 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 1: all these crazy moves, and cheerleing becomes a lot more 145 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 1: dangerous because girls are doing very high level maneuvers, gymnastic maneuvers. 146 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: Really right with Alpine eighties, we could have never had 147 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:47,199 Speaker 1: the movie Bring It On for two cheerleaning teams compete. 148 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: And at the same time I was reading a lot 149 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 1: of schools used to have gymnastics programs and they got 150 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 1: cut because it was too costly to ensure all those gymnasts. 151 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: And so that's when gymnastics um gymnasts started moving into cheerleading. 152 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: Which is why you know, maybe at first they had 153 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,199 Speaker 1: like one girl who could do flips and then to 154 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 1: just stay competitive to make the squad, basically everyone had 155 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:11,719 Speaker 1: to be able to do like flips and pyramids and 156 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 1: all sorts of stuff. So should we talk about some 157 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: of the dangers that can happen when you do all 158 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 1: that crazy stuff? Yeah, it is not. It is not 159 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:21,959 Speaker 1: for the faint of heart. I think if I were 160 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,080 Speaker 1: forced to be on a cheerleading squad, well, I'm tall, 161 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: so this would happen anyway. But even if I or tiny, 162 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: I would prefer to be a base because I don't 163 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: want anyone throwing me up in the air and then 164 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: relying on them to catch me. I don't even like 165 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:41,079 Speaker 1: trust falls. So yeah, I just got a lot of 166 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 1: ideas that how I could freak Kristin out. But regardless, um, yes, 167 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 1: there are the girls who are basis, and they're the 168 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 1: girls who fly. And now one of the problems is 169 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 1: that girls who fly the ones who are thrown up 170 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 1: in the air. Some schools have weight restrictions, so that 171 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 1: can possibly late to eating disorders for those girls. But 172 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 1: the reason they have weight restrictions isn't an attempt to 173 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 1: keep these stunts more safe because right now, like we said, 174 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: cheering is pretty unsafe. It's become the leading cause of 175 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 1: catastrophic injury and young female athletes, um and by that 176 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 1: I mean death disability related to head trauma and spine trauma, 177 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: and it causes six of those injuries in high school 178 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 1: or college sports. And the number of cheering accidents just 179 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 1: you know, like a sprain, a bruise, whatever. It was 180 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: five thousand in nineteen eighty before those competitions came on, 181 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: and now it's about twenty six thousand to twenty eight 182 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: thousand quadruple. Yeah, the risk of injury has certainly soared. 183 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 1: And because of that, college teams are no longer allowed 184 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: to perform three person high pyramids or do double flips, 185 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: and high school teams can't perform flipping basket tosses and 186 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 1: twisting dismounts are also banned on basketball courts because can 187 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 1: you imagine molly being tossed into the air and falling 188 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 1: on a basketball court. It can have some pretty serious consequences. UM. 189 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: For instance, I believe it was in either two thousand 190 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: three or two thousand four, high school cheerleader named Ashley 191 00:10:56,679 --> 00:11:01,439 Speaker 1: Burns actually died from a cheery accident. Right she landed 192 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 1: on her stomach and had caused her spleen interrupture. Um. Now, 193 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: I will say that some cheerleading advocates say that these 194 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 1: numbers might be sort of inflated for for weird reasons. 195 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:13,319 Speaker 1: I mean, when you look at if when you put 196 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,560 Speaker 1: it against um something like football. Um, this is these 197 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:18,439 Speaker 1: numbers come from Kate to our Godnik, who wrote a 198 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 1: bookbout cheerling. She said, in any given year, six out 199 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 1: of every thousand cheerleaders end up in an emergency room, 200 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: but in football, forty two out of every thousand players 201 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 1: end up in an emergency room. So it may just 202 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:31,559 Speaker 1: be that we're freaking out because these are young, attractive 203 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 1: girls as opposed to guys who you know, we're getting 204 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 1: hurt all the time and these really um aggressive sports. 205 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:40,679 Speaker 1: Now I'm only an article from the Boston Globe actually 206 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 1: makes entirely different point about the risks of cheerleading. It 207 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: says that since the n c double As Catastrophic Injury 208 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 1: Insurance Program found that of its claims for all college 209 00:11:54,800 --> 00:12:00,079 Speaker 1: student athletes resulted from cheerleading, And then it points so 210 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 1: out that when you consider that the ratio of college 211 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:06,079 Speaker 1: cheerleaders to football players is about twelve to one hundred. 212 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 1: It seems like a pretty huge figure now. Granted, a 213 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: majority of the injuries that cheerleaders sustain are more things 214 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:19,079 Speaker 1: like muscle strains and pulls, and ligament and injuries and 215 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 1: ten tendon injuries. But the problem is we're seeing more 216 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:26,679 Speaker 1: catastrophic injuries right. And it's worth noting also that cheerleaders 217 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,679 Speaker 1: practice year round because they do all the sports, whereas 218 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 1: you know, a football player has a more limited season. 219 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 1: But how the ladies are getting this these injuries sort 220 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 1: of comes down to the question we're going to ask 221 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:40,440 Speaker 1: to day is whether cheerleading is a sport or not 222 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: because you bring up those insurance claims, and that's sort 223 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 1: of like the one place where cheerleaders are definitively kind 224 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 1: as athletes is for that insurance purpose. The only recently 225 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:54,320 Speaker 1: became available for this kind of insurance um and it's 226 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 1: up to schools and states to decide what kind of 227 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:00,439 Speaker 1: oversight as an organ you know, as a sport or 228 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 1: as an activity that cheerleading has. In some states, it's 229 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 1: akin to being on the debate team, where you just 230 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 1: have a faculty advisor and it doesn't have to be 231 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: anyone with any sort of training. It's just someone who 232 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: has the time and the desire to work with girls 233 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 1: who want to cheerlead. Um, if it was a sport, 234 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 1: you might have a more trained coach who could perhaps 235 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 1: you know, teach girls to do things so they don't 236 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:24,680 Speaker 1: get as many injuries, kind of like Sue on Glee. 237 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: She also ruins girls self esteem in the meantime, but 238 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 1: she is very well trained. Sorry, I just keep pluging, plugging, 239 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 1: Jane Lynch, I can't stop. That's okay. But yeah, So 240 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:36,840 Speaker 1: this is the question, is if a school calls cheering 241 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 1: a sport, they're going to have to invest in a 242 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: really well trained coach who has to go to all 243 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 1: these camps and all these training seminars to learn about cheerleading. Um. 244 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 1: And some schools just don't have the money for that. 245 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 1: So sometimes it's a question of finance. You know, if 246 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 1: we're going to make it a sport, do we give 247 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:52,560 Speaker 1: you know, girls equal time and a gym to practice? 248 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:54,720 Speaker 1: Are they just in a classroom practice sing can affward 249 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: to buy the mats and so on and so forth, 250 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,200 Speaker 1: and so it's really, um, it's sort of a mess. 251 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 1: In reading about all the places where it's considered a 252 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: sport versus where it's considered an activity. So some are 253 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 1: wondering whether we should just buy and large say hey, 254 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 1: this is a sport because it's really athletic. Look at 255 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:12,559 Speaker 1: all these flips are doing. They compete, etcetera, etcetera. And 256 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:14,959 Speaker 1: some are just saying, hey, these are girls who cheer 257 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:17,959 Speaker 1: on the sideline. Yeah, because right now we can't give 258 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 1: you a specific number of how many college cheerleaders there 259 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: are in the US, because the n C Double A 260 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 1: doesn't even track it because it does not consider it 261 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 1: a sport. But um it, like you said, it has 262 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 1: extended its catastrophic Injury coverage insurance coverage to cheerleaders, but 263 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 1: because of the high incidences of claims made by cheerleaders 264 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 1: as of August two thousand and six, in order to 265 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 1: be covered by the n C Double A UM Catastrophic 266 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: Injury Insurance program, it requires that all collegiate squads be 267 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 1: supervised by a coach with safety certification by the American 268 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 1: Association of Cheerleading Coaches and Advisors. Now, on a high 269 00:14:55,400 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 1: school level, only fifteen to eighteen states actually regulate cheerleading 270 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 1: that closely. So to answer whether it should be a 271 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 1: sport or not with the with the legitimate coach, let's 272 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 1: go to the American Association of Cheerleading Coaches and administrator's 273 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 1: position paper on this very topic. And they looked at 274 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 1: another position paper by the Women's Sports Foundation that defined 275 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: a sport, because if we're going to call a sport, 276 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: we're gonna be really definitive about it. And they said, 277 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: a sport activity is one that involved propelling a mass 278 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: through space or overcoming the resistance of a mass, contesting 279 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: or competing against with an opponent, governed by rules which 280 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: explicitly define the time, space and purpose of the contest 281 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: and the conditions under which a winner has declared, and 282 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: the acknowledged primary purpose of the competition is a comparison 283 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: of the relative skills of the participants. So it's easy 284 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: to see how something like baseball's a sport. Okay, you've 285 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 1: got the mass hurtling through the air. Um, you've got rules, 286 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 1: you've got you know, very clear ways to win or 287 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 1: lose a game. Now, in cheerleading, the mass propelling through 288 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: space is obviously another person um competing against with an opponent. 289 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: This is the big hang up because cheerleading can be 290 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:09,119 Speaker 1: a competitive sport. There are squads who aren't even associated 291 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: with schools who go off to these competitions, but it's 292 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 1: not like the two squads are facing off against each 293 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 1: other at the same time. They compete and then their 294 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: judge on their performance, and then so on and so forth. 295 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 1: So that's why this American Association of Cheerleading Coaches and 296 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 1: Administrators have said it's not a sport. Cheering is not 297 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: a sport because you know it's there, you know, it's 298 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 1: just a judge of one performance against another. Yeah, they 299 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: say that it doesn't meet that criteria, and because of that, 300 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: they suggest developing an entirely new category for cheerleading called 301 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: an athletic activity, which kind of sounds like a sport 302 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 1: to me as well, but I guess it would be 303 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: kind of different because they say that dance drial teams 304 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: in marching bands could also possibly be folded into this. Now, 305 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 1: one thing when we're researching this casts that I really 306 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: liked was this paper written by Laura grind Steph and 307 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 1: Emily West called Cheerleading and the Gendered Politics of Sport, 308 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 1: and it went and actually asked cheerleaders hey should this 309 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 1: be a sport or not. And the real reason that cheerleaders, 310 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 1: and they talked about male and female cheerleader, we should 311 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:19,680 Speaker 1: probably specify that, Um, the real reason that cheerleaders wanted 312 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:21,199 Speaker 1: this to be a sport was so they would get 313 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:24,440 Speaker 1: their respect that playing a sport entailed. You know, obviously, 314 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 1: if you think back to high school, I remember, you know, 315 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 1: everyone liked the football team, you know, respected them for 316 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 1: what they were doing, and cheerleaders were just sort of there, 317 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:35,640 Speaker 1: you know, sort of accessories on the field. Right. So 318 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 1: girls who obviously work hard and are really athletic at 319 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 1: you know, doing these amazing stunts want the credit naturally 320 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: for what they're doing, and they want the respect that 321 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:47,879 Speaker 1: goes with a sport. Makes sense. They put a lot 322 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:50,440 Speaker 1: of time and effort into it. Uh And like I mean, 323 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 1: I respect the fact that they are willing to be 324 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 1: tossed very high into the air and then caught entrusting arms. 325 00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: I couldn't do it. So the argument that this paper makes, 326 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:05,879 Speaker 1: so Kristen, is that, um, they want this respect. Obviously, 327 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: both males and females were involved in cheerleading want their respect. 328 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: But the very fact that it's males and females maybe 329 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:16,719 Speaker 1: what undermines its status as a sport. But Molly wouldn't 330 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:19,399 Speaker 1: it doesn't it seem great though. The competitive cheerleading is 331 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: really one of the only mainstream sports that men and 332 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 1: women compete side by side. We'll see. That was what 333 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 1: the paper was saying, is that it seems almost like 334 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 1: this really cool evolution of athletics that it started is 335 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:32,639 Speaker 1: just sort of the sideline activity announced morphed into this 336 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:35,400 Speaker 1: thing that you have to be in great shape to do. Um. 337 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,240 Speaker 1: You know, the male cheerers work outside by side with 338 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 1: football players. But by that very sort of evolution, that's 339 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: what's undermining it. If the men become hyper masculine almost 340 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:49,920 Speaker 1: to prove that they're just as athletic as a football player. Um. 341 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:51,880 Speaker 1: Probably at the same time, with the girls are doing 342 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 1: is still maintaining the kind of girly um accessories of cheerlead, 343 00:18:57,119 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 1: the short skirts, the hair, the makeup, the pom ponds. 344 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 1: Could we used the phrase heteroonormative, Allie, we could? I 345 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:08,200 Speaker 1: think from this point out almost head using the word 346 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 1: header normative could be could be a drinking game. I 347 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 1: don't want to suggest people drink during this podcast, but 348 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:17,639 Speaker 1: this paper really goes into the heteronormative things that cheerleading represents. 349 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:20,399 Speaker 1: For one, the sideline function. You got women on the 350 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 1: sides cheering, and they're saying this could be likened to 351 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 1: heteronormative relationship where the woman is the cheerleader for the 352 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: breadwinning husband and um. The paper asked a lot of 353 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: these male cheerleaders, hey, what do you think about being 354 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 1: on the sideline cheering for the guys, and they're like, 355 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:38,920 Speaker 1: we hate it. The only reason we do cheering is 356 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 1: to go to these competitions and throw girls in the air. 357 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:45,160 Speaker 1: So to sum it up, while we have this athleticism 358 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 1: and girls want to have respect for the athleticism that 359 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 1: they're demonstrating on the on the sidelines. Emily West and 360 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: her colleague are arguing that it's really flawed societal norms 361 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: that are holding cheerleading back from really getting the respect 362 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 1: that it deserves exactly. I mean, it's an exaggerated argument, 363 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:06,919 Speaker 1: I think, but I think it's you know, when you 364 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 1: think about a guy who's a cheerleader who wants to 365 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: be seen as an athlete as opposed to a stereotype 366 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,160 Speaker 1: of a gay cheerleader, then yeah, they're going to over 367 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: emphasize how masculine they are, which I think, in turn 368 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:21,639 Speaker 1: would cause the females to say, hey, we're still cute, 369 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 1: we're still attractive, We're still like the most popular girls 370 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 1: in school. I mean, it's such a female icon that 371 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 1: women are always trying to fulfill the role. Well, Molly. 372 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 1: Gender politics aside, Uh, there is still this issue of 373 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: competition competitive cheerleading and whether or not it's so dangerous 374 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,440 Speaker 1: and so unregulated that it really just shouldn't be happening 375 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,159 Speaker 1: um or if it deserves to get more attention and 376 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 1: more funding from schools to make it a safer and 377 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,120 Speaker 1: classified sport is something that I think is still needs 378 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:57,159 Speaker 1: to be worked out. And it's interesting that Lawrence Herkimer 379 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 1: a k a. The father of the Herkey Ky. Yeah, 380 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 1: he's waiting on this as well, and he's kind of 381 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:06,159 Speaker 1: concerned about this over emphasis on the competitive side of 382 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:09,199 Speaker 1: cheerleading because he thinks that it gets away from the 383 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:11,959 Speaker 1: heart of cheerleading, which you know, it's what it was 384 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 1: what was demonstrated by Johnny Campbell on November two. You know, 385 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: as far as this boom, this boom ram in a sota, Uh, 386 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 1: it's it's it gets away from the spirit of cheerleading 387 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:28,679 Speaker 1: is as a a way to unify a school to 388 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 1: cheer on their their athletes. Right, it comes down to 389 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 1: what will rally up the crowd. Basically, Herkey thinks that 390 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 1: cheerleading squads have to be assets to their school. They 391 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 1: need to provide school spirit. And it comes down to 392 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: whether you think school spirit is watching a girl flip 393 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,160 Speaker 1: across the field or whether it's just having a girl 394 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 1: lead you in a cheer And then, Molly, if cheerleading 395 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:54,879 Speaker 1: becomes a sport, who will cheer for the cheerleader's sister? 396 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,199 Speaker 1: And that's one argument that cheerleaders made when they were 397 00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: asked by Laura Grindstaff and Emily West whether they were 398 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 1: a sport. It is like, how can of sport cheer 399 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:06,400 Speaker 1: on a sport? Yeah, so, I mean that's another philosophical quandary. Yeah, 400 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 1: I think we're getting into some strange like postmodern debate 401 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:15,639 Speaker 1: over skirts. It's heavy, you know what Yukon's doing. Yes, 402 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:20,160 Speaker 1: they are getting rid of a of the cheering squad 403 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 1: with gymnasts. Basically, if you're trying out for their cheerleading squad, 404 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:28,119 Speaker 1: their spirit squad, no gymnastic ability is required. You just 405 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 1: go you yell, yell your heart out, cheer on Yukon 406 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:37,160 Speaker 1: and gymnasts not welcome. Yeah. So I mean I think 407 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 1: maybe we could see this thing divide into two things. 408 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: One would be like competitive cheerleading, but it seems more 409 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,639 Speaker 1: like a dance squad almost, and then one would just 410 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 1: be school spirit squads. So to sum it up, Molly, 411 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: should cheerleading be considered a sport according to that American 412 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 1: Association of Cheerleading Coaches. Not yet. No, I mean I 413 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 1: think it remains to be seen. I almost wonder if 414 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:02,399 Speaker 1: the split would be the best thing. Yeah, but I 415 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:04,960 Speaker 1: think that would break called Harkey's heart. It would break 416 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:08,199 Speaker 1: the spirit sticking too. Oh No, But I think no 417 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,199 Speaker 1: matter what, Molly, as long as competitive cheerleading is going on, 418 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 1: because competitive cheerleading isn't gonna stop. You know, there are 419 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:18,679 Speaker 1: far too many, far too many organizations and teams that 420 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 1: are competing right now. But the number one thing that 421 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,439 Speaker 1: needs to happen is they need to make competitive cheerleading safer, 422 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,640 Speaker 1: whether they consider it a sport or not. Having cheerleading 423 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 1: account for six of all female catastrophic injuries shows that 424 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 1: something needs to be done, right. I agree, and you know, 425 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:37,879 Speaker 1: I think also we need to just sort of everyone 426 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: needs to change their stereotypes about cheerleaders. They are pretty 427 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 1: unfairly stereotyped, as you know, dumb lawns and skirts, the cheerios, 428 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,159 Speaker 1: the cheerios. Yeah, and so I think that because it's 429 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 1: such a female icon, people can twist it around to 430 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 1: either fit of stereotype they want or to break it, 431 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,119 Speaker 1: which brings us to our last point, which is the 432 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 1: issue of radical cheerleaders. Yeah. Radical cheer leaders are groups 433 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: of people who get together to basically use cheerleading tactics 434 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: to protest and demonstrate as a form of activism. And 435 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 1: it was started in the mid nineteen nineties by two 436 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:19,679 Speaker 1: sisters from Florida, Amy and Kara Jennings. And so Amy 437 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,680 Speaker 1: sees cheerleaders a positive role models as opposed to that 438 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: mean girl stereotype. You know. She says, they're athletes, they're strong, 439 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,160 Speaker 1: they work really hard, and she thought that the same 440 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 1: principles of firing up a crowd just so easily translated 441 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 1: to activism. So now they are these loose networks of 442 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:37,200 Speaker 1: men and women who get together and will do cheerleading 443 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 1: moves to protest things like Liverpool wages. Um, they'll cheer 444 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 1: against wars for peace, and they'll march in pride parades 445 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 1: all sorts of stuff. Um, I will say. There was 446 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:52,160 Speaker 1: a quote from the editorial director of American Cheerleader magazine, 447 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: Sheila Noon, who when she was asked about these liberal 448 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,680 Speaker 1: squads who sometimes grow out go out and their pom 449 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,439 Speaker 1: poms are made of like garbage bags and then like, 450 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,879 Speaker 1: you know, jokey kind of costumes. She was like, it 451 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 1: is a warping of what cheerleading us all about. Cheerleaders 452 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,200 Speaker 1: have an uphill battle gaining respect, and that's the last 453 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 1: thing we need. So that's her opinion. But maybe we 454 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 1: just all need to all respect cheerleaders and all women 455 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 1: and all men, because really, Molly, at the end of 456 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:21,359 Speaker 1: the day, everybody can be a cheerleader. I cheerlead for you, Kristin, 457 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 1: thank you, nice for you. You You know it's a long 458 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 1: time to respond. No, I do, I do, sincerely, And 459 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 1: you know who else? I cheer for our listeners, our listeners. Yes, 460 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,159 Speaker 1: let's do a listener mail. This one actually sort of 461 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: relates to cheerleading, kind of indirectly. This is from Andrew, 462 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 1: who wrote in I'm kind of upset you read a 463 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: listeners mail that was very male bashing and promoted women 464 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,199 Speaker 1: to be the only good and said you liked it. 465 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 1: Part of what they said was that most men are 466 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 1: scumbags while most women are good. That's a very discriminating comment. 467 00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 1: What about women that leave guys with the kids. I've 468 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: been engaged three times and apparently that was the cue 469 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,119 Speaker 1: for them to go cheating. Other than that, I've been 470 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,960 Speaker 1: cheating on plenty of times, yet I've never cheated. So 471 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,199 Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I didn't realize you read a mail listener 472 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 1: mail that was so um so hurtful. We want to 473 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 1: cheer on mails as well. Yes, I mean this is 474 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: a podcast where we talk a lot of a lot 475 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,400 Speaker 1: of issues from a female perspective, which people have written 476 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 1: in and said, you know sometimes that we might um 477 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,159 Speaker 1: trivialize the male's point of view in that. Yeah, but 478 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,440 Speaker 1: we do want to cheer on the men because here 479 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:32,200 Speaker 1: at Mom's Stuff, we appreciate men and women alike. Yes, 480 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: as Andrew put it, there are bad men and good men, 481 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:38,359 Speaker 1: bad women and good women too. So sorry for anything 482 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,639 Speaker 1: that might have come off as a little too mail bashing, 483 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 1: because we accept and love everyone sispomba, sispoomba listen are 484 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 1: so if really rhymes? No it doesn't. You can work 485 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 1: on it a uh so. If you have anything that 486 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,159 Speaker 1: you would like to send our way, please send us 487 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 1: an email at Mom's Stuff at hell stuff works dot com. 488 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:00,880 Speaker 1: And you also have a blog you can check out. 489 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:05,440 Speaker 1: It's called how to Stuff and you can also head 490 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 1: over to our website to see other things Molly and 491 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 1: I are working on. It is how stuff works dot com. 492 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,920 Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics. Is 493 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:21,159 Speaker 1: it how stuff works dot com. Want more how stuff works, 494 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,640 Speaker 1: check out our blogs on the house. Stuff works dot 495 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:30,679 Speaker 1: com home page brought to you by the reinvented two 496 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 1: thousand twelve camera. It's ready, are you