Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
Speaker 2: my name is Nolan.
Speaker 3: They call me Ben.
Speaker 1: We're joined as always with our super producer Alexis code
Speaker 1: named Doc Holliday Jackson. Most importantly, you are here. That
Speaker 1: makes this the stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 1: It is one of our favorite evenings of the week
Speaker 1: as we hurtle headlong toward autumn. It's listener bail. This
Speaker 1: is where we get to hear from the best part
Speaker 1: of the show. You, specifically you, our fellow listeners, our
Speaker 1: Hello conspiracy realists. Thank you for joining us. We're going
Speaker 1: to have some unhinged, hilarious conspiracy emails. We might talk
Speaker 1: to Tom about the Dragon. We might check in with
Speaker 1: the border of Me and mar. We are immediately going
Speaker 1: to talk pest controls because ever since our buddy sc
Speaker 1: bug Geek wrote to us, we've had a lot of
Speaker 1: conversations about not just pesticides, but herbicides, rodent sides, many sides, all.
Speaker 3: The sides we try to look at both sides or
Speaker 3: multiple sides, however many there may be. And can I
Speaker 3: just say, in the interest of speaking of the best
Speaker 3: part of the show, if you want to carry on
Speaker 3: the spirit of listener mail, carry it on over to
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or you might leave us a five star
Speaker 3: review and some kind words to help us sleep tight
Speaker 3: at night. And we've returned with today's first piece of
Speaker 3: listener mail that comes to us from mister E. Do
Speaker 3: you remember that show, Hey dude, Hey dude, better watch
Speaker 3: out for those man eating jack rabbits and that killer cactie.
Speaker 2: It's all coming back Nickelodeon.
Speaker 3: It was. It wasn't very good. There. There was like
Speaker 3: a whole block of those shows that were like kind
Speaker 3: of bad comedy, sitcom kind of dramedies, like almost like
Speaker 3: soap operas for kids, and that was one of them.
Speaker 3: I just remember the main guy I didn't growing up.
Speaker 3: That's okay, it was. He didn't miss anything except maybe
Speaker 3: are You Afraid of the Dark? I think he might
Speaker 3: have enjoyed. But the the main guy who was like
Speaker 3: running the dude ranch for kids, just sort of weird flex.
Speaker 3: His name was mister Ernst, and everyone called him mystery.
Speaker 3: That's all I got. Guys. It's you know on Secutar
Speaker 3: for Me by Nickelodeon shows from the nineties.
Speaker 2: For they called him Mystery Mystery something.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Anyway, Ben, you got you got the best of
Speaker 3: nineties television with the X Files, I assure you. So
Speaker 3: jumping into this series email pertaining too Well, let's just
Speaker 3: get right into him. Hello, team, just listen to your
Speaker 3: great segment on dactyl and thought i'd write you to
Speaker 3: chime in with a bit of contextual knowledge for my
Speaker 3: days as a pest control operator years ago. I was
Speaker 3: a structural Pest Control Board licensed field operator, working seasonally
Speaker 3: for relatives who owned the family business. So I suppose
Speaker 3: I've got pesticide in my blood. No mystery in both
Speaker 3: a literal and a figurative sense. It was not a
Speaker 3: great gig all in all, but it had its perks
Speaker 3: and it helped put me through university. As a tiny
Speaker 3: bit of backstory here, just this is me, Noel. The
Speaker 3: story in question here was about the EPA issuing an
Speaker 3: emergency order to stop the use of an herbicide known
Speaker 3: as dactyl.
Speaker 1: Matt.
Speaker 3: I believe this is a story that you brought the
Speaker 3: EPA issued this statement specifically out of Colorado, effectively immediately,
Speaker 3: no person or business in any state may use, distribute, sell,
Speaker 3: offer for sale, hold for sale, ship, deliver for shipment,
Speaker 3: or receive, and, having so received, deliver, or offer to
Speaker 3: deliver to any person any passive side product containing DCPA,
Speaker 3: which is die methyl tetra chlora terra thalate DCPA, also
Speaker 3: known as dactyl matt. Is there anything else the listeners
Speaker 3: at home might like to know before we proceed with
Speaker 3: our listener.
Speaker 2: Mail, Ah, The main thing to know is that it's
Speaker 2: the first time in forty years that the Environmental Protection
Speaker 2: Agency took such emergency action to stop a product or
Speaker 2: you know, an additive chemical from being distributed like this.
Speaker 3: Got it so big deal? So back to the message. Firstly,
Speaker 3: of course, you're correct regarding the use of the umbrella
Speaker 3: term pesticide as straddling other more niche genres like herbicides
Speaker 3: and identicides. Ben you mentioned both of those in the
Speaker 3: cold open of the show. However, while I'm fairly sure
Speaker 3: that the EPA has made a good and long overdue
Speaker 3: decision to restrict the chemical in question, I would like
Speaker 3: to invoke terminology again to possibly rebut or at least
Speaker 3: qualify one or more of your assertions. Hopefully it will
Speaker 3: help to temper some of the chemophobia which so often
Speaker 3: threatens to send us all into hysterics myself included. You
Speaker 3: guys alleged that the herbicide is quote inside the vegetables mentioned,
Speaker 3: which I really doubt. Pesticides which go inside of a
Speaker 3: plant as part of their mode of action are called systemics,
Speaker 3: and they're usually not herbicides, because if you put an
Speaker 3: herbicide inside of a plant, it will likely kill that plant,
Speaker 3: which isn't great if you're trying to grow and sell
Speaker 3: that plan. Herbicides kill plants, so you try to apply
Speaker 3: them to the plant you want to kill. Generally, I'm
Speaker 3: not super familiar with dactyl, but I would guess, based
Speaker 3: on its advertised efficacies that it is either used in
Speaker 3: targeted applications or broadcast sprayed around food crops to control weeds.
Speaker 3: So some probably gets on the broccoli, but likely not
Speaker 3: so much in the broccoli. While surface exposure is also
Speaker 3: not great, but at least it's a lower degree of contamination,
Speaker 3: and it also leaves the chemical more exposed to environmental
Speaker 3: factors like sunlight, temperature variations, and precipitation, all of which
Speaker 3: help to break it down over time, thus reducing likelihood
Speaker 3: of harmful levels of contamination to consumers. Because another very
Speaker 3: important point, all chemical toxicity is measured in units of
Speaker 3: mass of the chemical per unit of body mass of
Speaker 3: the exposed creature, thus resulting in the LD fifty and
Speaker 3: LD one hundred benchmark measurements of toxicity as well as others.
Speaker 3: Relative reductions and exposure matter a lot. I'll refrain from
Speaker 3: too much speculation regarding golf courses and the perhaps dubious
Speaker 3: pull of the people who play on them, but I'd
Speaker 3: say that given its harms to fetuses and presumably very
Speaker 3: young people, neither of which group are very well represented
Speaker 3: populations on golf courses, dactyl would probably be more of
Speaker 3: a hazard in places like public parks. If the chemical
Speaker 3: is sprayed on grass and you have just walked on
Speaker 3: that grass sometime later, you probably aren't really having much exposure. If,
Speaker 3: on the other hand, you're rolling around in that treated
Speaker 3: surface and having skin exposure or sitting and picnicking on it,
Speaker 3: that is probably not great. And the sooner that you
Speaker 3: get up close and personal with that turf after the
Speaker 3: initial application of that chemical, the more exposure you're likely
Speaker 3: to encounter. Another tidbit I picked up during my time
Speaker 3: in the industry is that herbicides are generally the more
Speaker 3: hazardous kinds of pesticides. I'm a little iffy on that,
Speaker 3: but I think it was a matter of the chemical
Speaker 3: having to penetrate the cell walls of plants, thus necessitating
Speaker 3: a more potent formulation or something. It has always struck
Speaker 3: me that the most likely victim of pesticide poisonings are
Speaker 3: probably farm workers who apply various chemicals on a large scale,
Speaker 3: especially herbicides, as they aren't always provided proper gear and
Speaker 3: training in safety protocols like actually wearing that safety gear
Speaker 3: and reading the MSDS for what they're spraying, manufacturers safety
Speaker 3: data sheets. Gonna end it there, guys. Anyway, thanks for
Speaker 3: the great podcast, mister e mistery, Thank you for the information.
Speaker 3: It obviously is coming from a place of expertise in
Speaker 3: the field, you know, working daily, you know, with these
Speaker 3: types of chemicals, and I think that aspect of it
Speaker 3: super helpful. I do have one thing that struck me
Speaker 3: that I wanted to mention to you guys. We talked
Speaker 3: about the herbicides getting inside of the plants, and mister
Speaker 3: E kind of rebutted that a little bit, but then
Speaker 3: also went on to say that herbicides are the most
Speaker 3: dangerous because they're formulated to penetrate the cell wall of plants.
Speaker 3: So if it's penetrating the cell wall of plants, doesn't
Speaker 3: that mean it's inside the plant.
Speaker 2: Well, this is tough, and you got to think about
Speaker 2: how dactyl is used or daxyl or however you say it.
Speaker 2: If you go to the official website for this chemical
Speaker 2: on amvac dot com, you'll see that they call it
Speaker 2: a pre emergent herbicide pre emergent, which means you spray
Speaker 2: this stuff on the soil after you've planted, generally to
Speaker 2: control other weeds from growing up when you've got something
Speaker 2: specific you're attempting to grow right like the broccoli or
Speaker 2: the bachchoi or whatever, which does mean it hangs around
Speaker 2: in the soil. And as we mentioned on that same website,
Speaker 2: the official website, it says that I'm going to read
Speaker 2: this quote, Dakville degradation is through microbial breakdown in the soil.
Speaker 2: It's not degraded by ultra violet radiation. From sunlight and
Speaker 2: is persistent in that soil for over sixty days.
Speaker 1: That's the key word persistent, which to.
Speaker 2: My mind, maybe I overstepped when I was talking about
Speaker 2: it in that Strange News episode, but it does feel
Speaker 2: to me, and it feels to me as though the
Speaker 2: danger here is that it is that persistent, as you said, Ben,
Speaker 2: and those crops grow for quite a while in that
Speaker 2: same soil that for at least sixty days, has this stuff,
Speaker 2: you know, hanging around in it.
Speaker 3: Well, and again, I mean, you know, when you've got
Speaker 3: a bud or you know, the new growth of plant,
Speaker 3: isn't that cell wall super thin? You know? It just
Speaker 3: seems like if it's designed to penetrate the cell wall
Speaker 3: and then it gets inside there and is persistent, doesn't
Speaker 3: that mean it would persistently stick around inside? And again,
Speaker 3: not here to call you into question mystery. You know,
Speaker 3: we are coming from a place of this is not
Speaker 3: our field. But I am jumping off of something that
Speaker 3: you said that has felt like a little bit of contradictory.
Speaker 3: And I don't think you were here to like totally
Speaker 3: shut us down, but I think we were operating under
Speaker 3: relatively you know, good faith assumptions here, and I honestly
Speaker 3: what you're writing to us makes me believe that even
Speaker 3: to be more so the case.
Speaker 1: I would like to thank you mistery for first off,
Speaker 1: tuning into the show, and even more importantly for taking
Speaker 1: the time to write in, because this is information that
Speaker 1: people need to know. Our conversation about pesticides or herbicides
Speaker 1: or hang on, let's go to our pal sc bug Geek,
Speaker 1: who we talked with earlier, points out in best Southern
Speaker 1: slang voice, you got your insecticides, your herbicids, your rodent
Speaker 1: to sads, your funga sads, your turmit to sads, and
Speaker 1: your matta sads. We have many We have many pest
Speaker 1: control experts in the crowd tonight, and one thing that
Speaker 1: we hear often is the label is the law. This
Speaker 1: idea of professionals understanding the implications of these chemicals and
Speaker 1: these substances deployed, it strikes a great discrepancy. I would argue,
Speaker 1: the public doesn't understand the same things that the professionals understand,
Speaker 1: and that may be an object of concern. Just to
Speaker 1: finish that.
Speaker 3: Though, absolutely and Mystery also provided us a link to
Speaker 3: something that I referenced in his email the Manufacturers Safety
Speaker 3: Data Sheet or MSDS for dactyl and it is something
Speaker 3: that you too can find if you just search for it.
Speaker 3: Cora Veil dot com, slash WP, dash content, slash uploads,
Speaker 3: slash twenty nineteen, slash one, slash dactyl dash one dot pdf.
Speaker 3: Did you get that? I hope you did. You can
Speaker 3: probably just google the majority of those terms and it'll
Speaker 3: come right up. But one part I just just for
Speaker 3: times sake, I didn't read the MSDS that he linked to.
Speaker 3: He kind of referred to it as being curiously incomplete
Speaker 3: in some areas, which I thought was interesting, And just
Speaker 3: to close out, you know, he went on to say,
Speaker 3: long story short, your fear of pesticide is justified. But
Speaker 3: the upside is that various contaminant factors limit your likelihood
Speaker 3: of problematic exposure. And they're also thankfully and surprisingly pretty
Speaker 3: heavily regulated in the US. On the topic of regulations,
Speaker 3: I've just moved to Europe, and I have to tell
Speaker 3: you it is in fact better over here, which has
Speaker 3: a lot to do with regulations. But I'll spare you
Speaker 3: a spiel and just end it there. Anyways, Thanks for
Speaker 3: the great podcast, But looking at this MSDS sheet. I
Speaker 3: wouldn't have anything approaching the expertise to know what mister
Speaker 3: E means by spare or like incomplete, because I'm looking
Speaker 3: at it and it's a good, you know, ten page
Speaker 3: document with a lot of texts involving regulations in different states.
Speaker 3: There's a whole section for regulatory information, transport information referring
Speaker 3: to DOT and other transport organizations, disposal considerations, and then
Speaker 3: carcinogenic effects, carcinogenicity, which is a fun word, germ cell mutagenicity,
Speaker 3: which I think maybe what he's referring to is I
Speaker 3: don't see much on here about the impact on fetuses
Speaker 3: per se, but I guess that's the issue, right, This
Speaker 3: was like maybe something that was outside the scope of
Speaker 3: what was understood to be dangerous about this thing, and
Speaker 3: according to the EPA, not able to be properly mitigated
Speaker 3: enough with those actions that mister E was talking about
Speaker 3: in terms of like the goal would be to reduce exposure,
Speaker 3: that would be the goal. And it looks like EPA,
Speaker 3: with their ruling emergency ruling, determine this thing is not mitigatable.
Speaker 3: Is that kind of your perspective there as well. Matt
Speaker 3: from the original story.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because the big concern was mothers, right.
Speaker 3: Right, But this document doesn't say anything about that, doesn't
Speaker 3: say anything about dangers to you know, fetuses or unborn children.
Speaker 2: No, does talk about rabbits and uh rats and other
Speaker 2: creatures that they tested acute toxicity on it and it's
Speaker 2: not great.
Speaker 3: So I don't know.
Speaker 1: They're mammalions, so it would transfer, right, the same concerns
Speaker 1: could be.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's a it's like an evil version of credit transferring
Speaker 1: through different universities. If something hurts one kind of creature,
Speaker 1: it can hurt a similar creature one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: Gosh, it's one of those that they write in this
Speaker 2: these materials, the mystery sent like, do not allow this
Speaker 2: material to drain into sewers or water supplies. Wait, what
Speaker 2: happens with crops, guys? You uh oh, you water them
Speaker 2: with giant watering systems. And where does that water go?
Speaker 3: Well, groundwater, and that goes places that can ultimately end
Speaker 3: up in homes.
Speaker 2: It says, do not contaminate ponds, waterways or with this chemical.
Speaker 3: Guys.
Speaker 1: This really does remind me of the many pieces of
Speaker 1: correspondence we've received from fellow conspiracy realist again in the
Speaker 1: pesticide industry, there's a monopolization again as we spoke about
Speaker 1: with Big Bug, right, I think that's what we called it.
Speaker 1: There is a concerted effort to accelerate or I would
Speaker 1: say maintain, if not accelerate, the discrepancy between expert knowledge
Speaker 1: right and scholarship versus the public awareness. Similar to lead pipes, right,
Speaker 1: the idea of lead's effect on people or you know,
Speaker 1: I might get in trouble for this one, but the
Speaker 1: lidamide is pretty dangerous and the non research the known
Speaker 1: proving consequences of exposure to thlidibide, those consequences were buried
Speaker 1: quite successfully. There was a conspiracy to bury the results
Speaker 1: of thlidibide exposure. So we have to ask ourselves not
Speaker 1: whether this stuff is one hundred percent dangerous, We have
Speaker 1: to ask ourselves why the public is not more readily
Speaker 1: empowered with information about exposure to these substances.
Speaker 3: One hundred percent. And I also really appreciate the point
Speaker 3: mister emakes in the email about how you know if
Speaker 3: this were to be used like in a park and
Speaker 3: you were picnicking or like rolling around in the grass,
Speaker 3: that would be a much more dangerous transmission of this
Speaker 3: stuff than say, a golf course. But if I remember correctly,
Speaker 3: one of the things that perhaps I snarkily, you know,
Speaker 3: commented on it was the idea that, oh, they're not
Speaker 3: going to do anything about it. The rich people complain
Speaker 3: because it's contaminating their golf course. And I think that
Speaker 3: might on my part, have been a bit of an oversimplification,
Speaker 3: but it's hard to ignore that that aspect of it
Speaker 3: does seem to have moved the needle to some degree. Agreed.
Speaker 2: And if you want to learn more about just these
Speaker 2: you know, chemical dangerous chemicals we're talking about. Been that
Speaker 2: story from East Palestine that we talked about, gosh a
Speaker 2: long time ago. There's new reporting coming out over the
Speaker 2: past like week and a half, two weeks just about
Speaker 2: the dangers that the cleanup workers faced and how many
Speaker 2: people actually got very, very sick from cleaning up these chemicals.
Speaker 1: I really appreciate you bringing that up, Matt, because I'm
Speaker 1: still in contact with a lot of those folks. Wow,
Speaker 1: thank you. You know, it's it's rare that I would
Speaker 1: be in articulate there, but that means a world to
Speaker 1: the folks in East Palestines. Well, let's remember just because
Speaker 1: headline is no longer in the news, it doesn't mean
Speaker 1: the story is over.
Speaker 3: Thank you man, very very true. Thanks as well, Matt,
Speaker 3: and thanks to you, mystery. You're gonna take a quick
Speaker 3: pause here a word from our sponsor, and then come
Speaker 3: back with some more messages from you.
Speaker 2: And we've returned, and we are taking a little international trip, guys,
Speaker 2: based on a voicemail we got from surf writer. Now
Speaker 2: I cannot discern with my ear holes if it is
Speaker 2: w R I T E R or R I D
Speaker 2: e R or some other word in there. I'm gonna
Speaker 2: say surf writer is in one who rights the surf,
Speaker 2: because that just feels good to me. But here we.
Speaker 1: Maybe we let the listeners be the judge.
Speaker 2: Huh, there we go. What do you think? Let's find
Speaker 2: out here's surf Writer's message.
Speaker 4: Hey, this is a surf writer. Love the show, but
Speaker 4: listening to it, I can't even count that the number
Speaker 4: of years. But I recently heard about scamming institutions that
Speaker 4: are incredibly large. Shall look at too, KK Park and
Speaker 4: KK Park two. I'm not sure if you've talked about
Speaker 4: them before, but I think it'd be a fascinating story
Speaker 4: to government piece.
Speaker 2: There we go scamming institutes. It's a way surf writer
Speaker 2: described the places we're about to explore, and we called
Speaker 2: them KK Park and KK Park two. I'll tell you
Speaker 2: guys what I found immediately, and then jump into what
Speaker 2: you guys know about this already, because maybe you already
Speaker 2: have some information. It was brand new to me when
Speaker 2: I searched. I got a South China Morning Post or whatever.
Speaker 2: It's that same source we just talked about on Strange News,
Speaker 2: and it was an exclusive story at least according to
Speaker 2: the site. Published on July twenty second, twenty twenty three,
Speaker 2: so last year. And this is the title inside the
Speaker 2: Chinese run crime hubs of Me and Mar that are
Speaker 2: conning the world. And then it has a colon and
Speaker 2: a quotation and it says we can.
Speaker 3: Kill you here unquote.
Speaker 2: And then I can't read the article because I'm not subscribed,
Speaker 2: but I do. I'll read you the two like subtitles
Speaker 2: here from Schwekoco s hwe ko Kko to KK Park,
Speaker 2: A slew of brutal criminal enterprises now dot the Moai
Speaker 2: River that forms me and Mars border with Thailand. Survivors
Speaker 2: ensnared by promises of legitimate work spoke to this week
Speaker 2: in Asia. That's another publication of trafficking, torture and being
Speaker 2: forced to defraud strangers online.
Speaker 3: So this KK park, it's like, it's literally like an
Speaker 3: office park where these types of activities are going down.
Speaker 3: Is that the idea?
Speaker 2: Well? That is that is my understanding. It's described often
Speaker 2: as a work complex, a like work live complex, a
Speaker 2: place where work can be done and people can be housed, right,
Speaker 2: and you can also eat there because there's gonna be
Speaker 2: some food.
Speaker 3: The commissary, the scam, the scam commissary, right.
Speaker 1: It's very live laugh love.
Speaker 3: Yes, guys, I don't know if you we. I think
Speaker 3: we did an ad for it a while back. But
Speaker 3: did you guys see the Jason Stathan movie The Bee Keeper.
Speaker 2: I've not seen it.
Speaker 3: I think it's excellent. I think it's really fun. But
Speaker 3: basically it revolves around like a mega organized scam operation
Speaker 3: that is like in a proper office building where people
Speaker 3: are using computers and the scamming old ladies out of
Speaker 3: their pensions and stuff like that. And it really doesn't
Speaker 3: make me think of this this level. It has to
Speaker 3: be some of the scams that we get over here.
Speaker 3: I wonder on phone stuff for spoofing and various things
Speaker 3: that are preying on people that aren't as tech savvy.
Speaker 3: There have to be pretty significant operations behind some of them. Well, yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean this is very interesting. When you look at
Speaker 3: the aerial maps, it's like it's like an office park
Speaker 3: and I just I'm picturing a beekeeper type of.
Speaker 2: Well, so let's mention here. According to surf writer and
Speaker 2: to some of the writing, the initial writing that at
Speaker 2: least we've seen on this, it does appear that what's
Speaker 2: being described here are these complexes multiple by the way,
Speaker 2: that exist along the border of Thailand and Me and
Speaker 2: mar that kind of specialize in getting workers to the location,
Speaker 2: either you know, through some type of ad or word
Speaker 2: of mouth or by I guess the phrase would be
Speaker 2: conning them into like migrant workers to coming to this location,
Speaker 2: similarly to how we've described it in the past, where
Speaker 2: then the passport and other identification materials are controlled by
Speaker 2: someone or some entity that is also on site, and
Speaker 2: then they are forced to do whatever work it is
Speaker 2: to pay off a debt, right, a travel debt or
Speaker 2: whatever debt that the company the individuals come up with
Speaker 2: exactly is.
Speaker 3: Trick in the book. They keep the passports, they keep
Speaker 3: the travel papers, and you're basically at their mercy if
Speaker 3: they ever even will release you.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, And I just according to this one institution
Speaker 2: that I've never heard of this, Maybe you guys have
Speaker 2: heard of this, the United States Institute of Peace.
Speaker 3: It sounds made up.
Speaker 1: Sounds like they will once again point out the danger
Speaker 1: of innocuous names for organizations.
Speaker 3: Well, I would agree in an Orwell novel, they'd be
Speaker 3: the ones making all the war, you know, that's for sure.
Speaker 1: But I think you're on I think you're onto something.
Speaker 4: Man.
Speaker 2: I think there's something to this. I don't know any
Speaker 2: thing about it. This is an institute that was created
Speaker 2: after this thing passed, called the United States Institute of
Speaker 2: Peace Act in nineteen eighty four, and their mission is
Speaker 2: to quote serve the people in the government through the
Speaker 2: widest possible range of education and training, basic and applied
Speaker 2: research opportunities. That's an interesting statement. And Peace Information Services
Speaker 2: on the means to promote international peace and the resolution
Speaker 2: of conflicts among the nations and peoples of the world
Speaker 2: without recourse to violence. So, according to them, that group,
Speaker 2: there are around twenty thousand workers who are either in
Speaker 2: a state of indentured servitude or are there working on
Speaker 2: their own volition. It's hard to know, but there are
Speaker 2: twenty thousand workers at this one KK park, and then
Speaker 2: there are multiples of those if you imagine the number
Speaker 2: of human beings who are actively working to run whatever
Speaker 2: scams are I guess on the menu there.
Speaker 1: Look, the world is big and a lot of terrible
Speaker 1: things are happening all the time, right the world is
Speaker 1: ending for someone every single minute of an evening. And
Speaker 1: it reminds me a bit of the idea of like
Speaker 1: you guys, remember the game Roomscape. I'm going somewhere with this.
Speaker 1: The video game, like myst it's an old game, it
Speaker 1: is still active. It is a sort Mining resources in
Speaker 1: RuneScape is a viable economic pursuit for people in Venezuela.
Speaker 1: And it's such a big deal that when power is cut,
Speaker 1: when the power goes out in Venezuela, you can measure
Speaker 1: the you can measure the fluctuations in what people pay
Speaker 1: in the old school game RuneScape. This again goes to
Speaker 1: the idea of the stories continuing past the headlines. Households
Speaker 1: in Myanmar are crippled right now, currency is tumbling to
Speaker 1: a low Meanmar is a vassal state of China. It
Speaker 1: is in operative uh not quite hot boar, not quite
Speaker 1: kinetic war, but it is in a very sensitive geopolitical
Speaker 1: situation and the idea of anything we would consider human
Speaker 1: rights doesn't really exist there right now. And this is
Speaker 1: a crazy thing because there are a lot of Chinese
Speaker 1: nationals who are like you said, Matt, they're incentivized, or
Speaker 1: they're tempted or somehow sometimes coerced into these border towns.
Speaker 1: And these people are coming from Thailand, from Laos, from Cambodia,
Speaker 1: as far away as Hong Kong and Taiwan, and they're
Speaker 1: put there, are lured there the same way that domestic
Speaker 1: workers are lured into certain Middle Eastern countries. And just
Speaker 1: as you said, their passports are taken, they are put
Speaker 1: into indentured tude right slaves in all operative terms, and
Speaker 1: there there's not really anybody sticking up for them, which
Speaker 1: is a very dangerous thing. That's that's what I saw.
Speaker 3: I agree with you.
Speaker 2: I think we should stand up and I think we
Speaker 2: need to make this whole episode.
Speaker 3: Guys.
Speaker 2: It goes so deep into the holding companies that run
Speaker 2: some of the online gambling outfits that are running in
Speaker 2: places like Yatai New City, which is a part of
Speaker 2: that Shwekoco Place, companies like Yatai International Holdings Group and
Speaker 2: Chitlin Mayang Company that work together to do this stuff.
Speaker 2: There's apparently one of one of the companies involved is
Speaker 2: owned by a fugitive, like a Chinese fugitive. Well again,
Speaker 2: like it's tough to know in the moment if I
Speaker 2: can trust some of these sources that I'm looking at,
Speaker 2: But there it goes deep, and I think if we
Speaker 2: parse through a lot of it, we can get to
Speaker 2: the bottom of a story about exactly where you're describing
Speaker 2: Ben just using those border town who I was gonna
Speaker 2: I was gonna use the phrase limital spaces where the
Speaker 2: law kind of applies, but you know, kind of doesn't.
Speaker 3: And it's easier just to leave well enough alone in
Speaker 3: certain cases, especially if it's like contained and it's not
Speaker 3: bleeding out into the potential governing countries, like in terms
Speaker 3: of like if there were violence being done or if
Speaker 3: it was like cartel type stuff, then they'll probably be
Speaker 3: a different story. But if they're keeping it, keeping to
Speaker 3: themselves with this as it seems that they are right.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and if they're conning people in America and
Speaker 2: countries across vast oceans, maybe it's not that big of
Speaker 2: a concern. And if the people who are running these
Speaker 2: operations are genuinely dangerous, you know, human beings part of
Speaker 2: genuinely dangerous organizations, then you don't You got it? Well,
Speaker 2: you have to choose your actions very carefully.
Speaker 3: It's right, Ben. Can I get you to clarify something
Speaker 3: for me? I'm sorry if I missed it. You mentioned
Speaker 3: that game RuneScape and like something about power. I just
Speaker 3: I want to understand the connection there, because it made
Speaker 3: me think of a Neil Stevenson book called REOMNDI, where
Speaker 3: there's like these Chinese it's like a massive multiplayer online
Speaker 3: game and there's like gold farming that takes place, and
Speaker 3: it's a way of like hiding criminal activity and like
Speaker 3: almost like a secret currency in a way of like
Speaker 3: you know, paying for things with this like in game currency.
Speaker 3: I'm just wondering if that was any connection or how
Speaker 3: that pertained to this type of activity. Hopy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, to be specific, Venezuela due to the who everybody
Speaker 1: read Confessions of an Economic Hitman first off, but Venezuela
Speaker 1: is having an economic collapse, okay, and it's not in
Speaker 1: a good place. The people of Venezuela are in a
Speaker 1: really tough spot such that it has become a viable career,
Speaker 1: a means of survival to mine or grind in the
Speaker 1: game RuneScape, the old school game RuneScape. And we know
Speaker 1: this is a real and measurable thing because when the
Speaker 1: power goes out in Venezuela and parts of Venezuela, like
Speaker 1: in Canakas, so like when the power goes out, the
Speaker 1: value of stuff in that online game RuneScape fluctuates. If
Speaker 1: you want to learn more about it, folks, check out
Speaker 1: this has been going on for years. You could check
Speaker 1: out articles from twenty twenty. Here's one I'm just off
Speaker 1: the dome googling how RuneScape is helping Venezuelan survive May
Speaker 1: twenty eighth, twenty twenty by Matt Ompler. And that's a
Speaker 1: tangential reference to what you're taught talking about, Matt, which
Speaker 1: is the process going on now in meandmar But people's lives.
Speaker 3: Are on the line, and I guess, Matt, is this
Speaker 3: are there some people that are part of this willingly do?
Speaker 3: I mean again, I guess this is tough. We have
Speaker 3: to dig and find, you know, because obviously they're the
Speaker 3: top dogs, the people that are supervising it, making the
Speaker 3: big money. But it seems like a lot of it
Speaker 3: is tant amount to kidnapping, and you know, in dentur
Speaker 3: and servitude, I just wonder if there are echelons and
Speaker 3: like what that looks like. It's very, very troubling and fascinating.
Speaker 2: It appears that it's organized criminal activity that is controlling
Speaker 2: these sites. You can see reporting out of CNN from
Speaker 2: May twenty twenty three. Title of this it's it's archived,
Speaker 2: so I don't know if you can actually find the
Speaker 2: original one anymore, but a genuine archived CNN article titled
Speaker 2: six Filipinos rescued from human trafficking syndicates in Me and
Speaker 2: mar And what they are described here are people who
Speaker 2: got basically taken into KK Park, then taken to another
Speaker 2: place called Century Park in Mayowadi, Myawaddy, and they were
Speaker 2: able to cross the border into Thailand and escape. So
Speaker 2: human beings that are being forced to work there that
Speaker 2: are escaping, they're talking about torture at least once they
Speaker 2: get free. They're talking about taking part in cryptocurrency and
Speaker 2: love scams specifically while they're there, and again imagining that
Speaker 2: that's happening probably across the ocean, if not just targeting
Speaker 2: other places that they see as very wealthy these criminal organizations.
Speaker 2: It's that there was a BBC article specifically talking about
Speaker 2: scams in Cambodia and again like very similar places, they
Speaker 2: all mention KK Park by the way, So that is
Speaker 2: probably our starting point, just the way it was with
Speaker 2: surf Writer's message. Start there and expand out and just
Speaker 2: see what we can find.
Speaker 1: Greed appreciate your time immensely, surf wright er, thank you
Speaker 1: for bringing this to the forefront, because I think we
Speaker 1: can all agree this is something that is unfamiliar and
Speaker 1: specific to a lot of people in the West. When
Speaker 1: we're talking about online gambling or video games, it may
Speaker 1: sound innocuous, it very much is not. We are talking
Speaker 1: about human trafficking. The memr and Thailand border is worrius,
Speaker 1: which means quite a bit of trafficking occurs, and quite
Speaker 1: often the authorities, the people who are supposed to protect
Speaker 1: other people, look the other way and indeed may participate
Speaker 1: in crime.
Speaker 3: Do you think there's any connection to the way, like,
Speaker 3: you know, stuff that happens with Cartel's on the US
Speaker 3: Mexico borders politicized or is it just a different kind
Speaker 3: of ball of axe? I guess, because you know, you
Speaker 3: do see that trickle into the United States to a
Speaker 3: point where it can become a political talking point of
Speaker 3: like they're they're this porous aspect is causing us harm.
Speaker 3: I just wonder if there's any of that taking place
Speaker 3: in this situation on you know, the other side of
Speaker 3: that Horus border.
Speaker 2: I really don't know. I'm sorry, I'm about a bit
Speaker 2: of a loss here.
Speaker 3: I just don't think so many things to look into,
Speaker 3: big questions.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, agreed, I'm just looking in this BBC article
Speaker 2: talking about sites in Cambodia. Now, there's just so much
Speaker 2: of this going on. We got to sift through it.
Speaker 2: So we will do that. Let us know if you
Speaker 2: have any more information, and we will be right back
Speaker 2: with more messages from you.
Speaker 1: And we have returned with a choice for our intrepid
Speaker 1: host here. Do you guys want to hear an unhinged,
Speaker 1: hilarious conspiracy email or do you want to hear from
Speaker 1: Tom and the Dragon?
Speaker 3: Oh, geez, unhinged? First, Matt, what do you think?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then let's write the dragon.
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, let's see how let's say how far
Speaker 1: we get here?
Speaker 3: All right?
Speaker 1: Uh, here we go? Iguanta tell you something By R.
Speaker 1: Tilliam mcscaley. Greetings, host, longtime listener, first time emailer. Literally,
Speaker 1: I've never sent an email before. I find that telepathy
Speaker 1: gets things done faster, although it can get pretty crowded sometimes,
Speaker 1: and I end up accidentally telling my Grandmaster how much
Speaker 1: I hate his all hands meetings. I was alerted to
Speaker 1: the fact that an audio teaching was being broadcast by
Speaker 1: the fine folks at std WYTK. I believe you call
Speaker 1: it a podcast, which is funny really, since to us
Speaker 1: a podcast is simply the implemented system we have to
Speaker 1: dispatch vessel pods to and from Earth. We all had
Speaker 1: a great lol about that in the Orifice office. Curse
Speaker 1: these webbed hands.
Speaker 3: Oh wait, okay, wait, hold on, is this like a
Speaker 3: lizard person? Who is this? Okay?
Speaker 2: They're clearly sending pods to and from Earth.
Speaker 3: Tide pods for the children to eat. No, what what
Speaker 3: mischief is this person up to? Please go on, we
Speaker 3: must hear more.
Speaker 2: And mcscalley continues, you hit on some good points. A
Speaker 2: few quite accurate, but luckily they were told in jest,
Speaker 2: and the validity of such an existence cease to be
Speaker 2: taken seriously by the listening subjects. Okay, I don't know,
Speaker 2: maybe I'm losing myself here. Here we go, continue on.
Speaker 2: Have you ever considered that a common symbol, statue, monument
Speaker 2: that you have in your land was deliberately created to
Speaker 2: communicate that my lords have complete control over your actions?
Speaker 2: You call it lady justice.
Speaker 3: We thought it would be too obvious, but we quickly
Speaker 3: realized that the primate brain is more interested in calling
Speaker 3: a lady because she seems to have memory bags and
Speaker 3: not realize what's actually being represented. First of all, and
Speaker 3: I mean, come on, one hand is carrying scales. Let
Speaker 3: me emphasize the word scales. I'll let you continue figuring
Speaker 3: that one out.
Speaker 1: Second scales. Everybody think about that reptile choke. Secondly, the sword, This,
Speaker 1: what I admit, is trickier. You see, just like on
Speaker 1: your planet, there are some lizards no relation, that lose
Speaker 1: their tail when confronted by danger. We reptilions also have
Speaker 1: that ability. However, being much larger in size, our tail
Speaker 1: doesn't fall off that easily. So we have our own swords.
Speaker 1: I'm saying, swartz swords to help quicken the process. It
Speaker 1: really is a b word.
Speaker 3: Cut their own tails of this is well psychotic, all right,
Speaker 3: I think we're getting the homest matt All right.
Speaker 2: Here we go third. So we've got the scales, We've
Speaker 2: got the sword. Here it comes third, the blind fold.
Speaker 2: No justice is not blind. Its eyes are very much awake.
Speaker 2: Or since we have the double layered eyelid, we like
Speaker 2: to joke that their eyes wide shut.
Speaker 3: Get it.
Speaker 2: I mentioned this once during the studio filming of the
Speaker 2: moon landing, and this guy Stan who's doing the filming,
Speaker 2: just bust a gut right there. He wrote it on
Speaker 2: a napkin and always wondered what he'd do with it. AnyWho,
Speaker 2: I digress. The blindfold is to signify our hidden place
Speaker 2: in your world, working unseen from the shadows.
Speaker 3: He's drag upon Easter eggs. It's cause stuff. Yeah. The
Speaker 3: less said about the Statue of Liberty, the better, ah excrement.
Speaker 3: I have to go. Mother is calling for our feedings,
Speaker 3: and I hate to get another tongue lashing, a literal one.
Speaker 1: Believe me, you don't want to get slapped by that thing.
Speaker 1: It's like being hit with a wet fish wrapped in sandpaper.
Speaker 1: Talk so mother time, I'm getting the hang of this
Speaker 1: electronic mailing system. Be in touch, XENU, be with you.
Speaker 1: So say we all okay? So say we all all right?
Speaker 1: Did we get an important message? Or is that unhinged?
Speaker 1: What do you guys think? Oh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, well we got a super important message. We need
Speaker 2: to get to the PostScript though, because that's what makes
Speaker 2: it all makes sense.
Speaker 1: Ah, yes, matt why do you take us home on
Speaker 1: that one?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 2: The PostScript and then mc sally wrote, is go ahead
Speaker 2: and use this in my name on the casting pod.
Speaker 2: They'll never believe you. They'll just think I have become strange.
Speaker 3: I am become strange. Oh and it's mccalely, Matthew, mc sally, Scooby.
Speaker 3: Do the hell out of this one, guys, that was
Speaker 3: a lot of fun. We sure did.
Speaker 1: Thank you very much, mcscaley. We think also, uh, thank
Speaker 1: you and apaulogies to codename Doc Holliday for having to
Speaker 1: edit our off by conversations on this. We have so
Speaker 1: much more to get to. We have one letter from home.
Speaker 1: We wanted to give a very special congratulations to our
Speaker 1: pals the Devil Family to Rebel Devil. We talked about
Speaker 1: this a little bit off air. Turns out one of
Speaker 1: our favorite conspiracy realist couples has just tied the knot,
Speaker 1: jumped the broom, made the.
Speaker 3: Matrimony, getting hitched.
Speaker 1: Yeah on purpose?
Speaker 3: Whoa bold move. Four.
Speaker 1: Now we talked with We talked with Rebel, and Rebel said,
Speaker 1: I'll leave it to you and the crew as you
Speaker 1: all are excellent wordsmiths for the exact verbiage, but please
Speaker 1: say something along the lines of wishing us here it goes, guys,
Speaker 1: a life of happiness adventure, and maybe throw in an
Speaker 1: alien or UFO reference because those are my wife's favorite
Speaker 1: episodes and conspiracies. Yeah, can do we got a good
Speaker 1: UFO reference.
Speaker 3: Oh it's got to be now, Okay, sorry, I justent
Speaker 3: those are some of our favorite episodes too. I don't know, man,
Speaker 3: I can't I can't do it. I can't do it
Speaker 3: on command like that. What a reference kind of has
Speaker 3: to happen organically. I don't know how to just like
Speaker 3: bust it out. But I'm not as I'm not as
Speaker 3: clever as you guys. Maybe y'all can do I.
Speaker 2: Don't know if we've got a UFO reference, I would
Speaker 2: just say, considering your matrimony is nigh.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: It is strange that I randomly went UFO UAP hunting
Speaker 2: for the first time last weekend as we're recording this,
Speaker 2: that's true, and I bought some equipment.
Speaker 3: And telescope with a science buddy, right, didn't you have
Speaker 3: a science pal?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, science pal Scott Scottie and Nick, who was
Speaker 2: the reason I was out there. Shout out to you,
Speaker 2: Nicholas and your lake that is almost a pond but
Speaker 2: a little too big, so it's a lake.
Speaker 3: A lake that he owns. I just I don't know
Speaker 3: why I can't get my head around that, but I will.
Speaker 2: I will just tell you guys right now, just to
Speaker 2: bring this up. And I'm sorry, I don't want to
Speaker 2: capitalize too much time here, but I saw some things
Speaker 2: that initially as just old Maddie two hands Frederick guy
Speaker 2: looking up at the sky with some sophisticated equipment. I
Speaker 2: saw some stuff that my brain said, Hey, that's kind
Speaker 2: of weird. I don't I don't like that. I can't
Speaker 2: understand that with my current understanding of what goes around
Speaker 2: comes around up there. And my friend Scott who is
Speaker 2: He's been interested in this stuff forever. He's had a telescope.
Speaker 2: You know that you can make out Saturn from here
Speaker 2: really really well. He said that since he was a kid,
Speaker 2: and he explained some things to me that made it
Speaker 2: a lot more a lot less scary. I think with
Speaker 2: some of the lights that I saw up.
Speaker 3: There in the sky, do you care to share with
Speaker 3: the glass so we too can be less scared.
Speaker 2: Well, it was a specific thing about satellites and certain
Speaker 2: movements when the Sun is at a certain position relative
Speaker 2: to the Earth, and the way sun rays can still
Speaker 2: hit things that are that high up. Right, they're still
Speaker 2: in orbit, but they're that high up and the sun
Speaker 2: can hit them. And depending on stuff like cloud cover
Speaker 2: and where they're moving relative to you know, mountains and
Speaker 2: elevation of the Earth, you can get weird little stuff
Speaker 2: that happens where you'll see a shiny circle or you know,
Speaker 2: spherical object in the sky kind of flash past for
Speaker 2: a second, but you realize, oh, that's definitely not you know,
Speaker 2: some kind of meteor or you know, we just went
Speaker 2: through the shower. What was the meteor shower? Yeah, and
Speaker 2: it was right around the same time and It definitely
Speaker 2: wasn't that. But he just explained to me some things
Speaker 2: that made me feel better.
Speaker 1: Does that make sense, Yes, it does, and it makes
Speaker 1: sense not just in a literal and scientific perspective, Matt,
Speaker 1: but also in a metaphorical perspective. To you, the newly
Speaker 1: minted honeymooning Devil couple conspiracy realist, everyone is an object
Speaker 1: in space, and let us imagine, let us look with
Speaker 1: true amazement upon the inexplicable odds that you two objects
Speaker 1: in space would align, would become undivisible. That's not a word,
Speaker 1: it's American English. But you are objects together.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: I think that's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 2: That is a beautiful thing, Ben, you kind of just
Speaker 2: quoted the word I spoke to my ex wife when
Speaker 2: we got hitched. The improbable nature of these two conscious,
Speaker 2: conscious beings coming together to form one system, that is
Speaker 2: that you can use that I like, Oh.
Speaker 1: My god, we're bigging up. We're biging up our guy here. Well, congratulations, folks,
Speaker 1: join us in congratulating the newly minted Devils, And we
Speaker 1: also want to thank you for tuning in. As we say,
Speaker 1: you're the most important part of the show. We are
Speaker 1: so grateful to Tom of Tom and the Dragon, to mccali,
Speaker 1: to surf Writer or Writer, to mister e and also
Speaker 1: some folks we'll hear from in the future, including Dilly.
Speaker 3: Oh, and I'm sorry I offer my congratulations to the
Speaker 3: happy couple as well. Sorry I didn't want to be
Speaker 3: a downer there. Congrats you too. And hey, if you
Speaker 3: have something you'd like us talk about on the podcast,
Speaker 3: you can reach out to us at the hand of
Speaker 3: Conspiracy Stuff where we exist all over the internet, particularly
Speaker 3: on Facebook where we have our Facebook group Here's where
Speaker 3: it gets crazy, on xfka, Twitter, and on YouTube where
Speaker 3: we have video content galore. On Instagram and TikTok. However,
Speaker 3: we are Conspiracy Stuff Show. But wait, there's more.
Speaker 2: You can contact us directly with your mouth and your
Speaker 2: phone call one eight three three std WYTK. It's a
Speaker 2: voicemail system. You're not going to talk to anybody, but
Speaker 2: you will hear Ben's voice and you'll hear a beep.
Speaker 2: Then you've got three minutes. Say whatever you'd like, literally anything.
Speaker 2: Just do give yourself a cool nickname and let us
Speaker 2: know if we can use your name and message on
Speaker 2: the air. That's just helpful thing for us. If You've
Speaker 2: got more to say, Maybe you got links, maybe attachments.
Speaker 2: Why not instead send us a good old fashioned email.
Speaker 1: We are the entities that read every piece of correspondence
Speaker 1: we receive, be aware yet unafraid. Sometimes the void writes back,
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