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Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt,

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Speaker 1: and today we're asking the question who wants to be

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Speaker 1: a Millionaire?

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Speaker 2: So I just tried to do my best game show

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Speaker 2: host voice.

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Speaker 3: Did it?

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Speaker 2: Show didn't come through?

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Speaker 1: You're the next Drew carry?

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Speaker 3: Oh? Oh it might? Is that the price is right?

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Speaker 3: That's right?

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Speaker 2: So I was first thinking about He also hosted whose

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Speaker 2: line is it? Anyway? Oh?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, did you?

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Speaker 2: And before him somebody else? I forgot he used to

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Speaker 2: be the old host. Wasn't there's somebody else Parker on prices? Right? No,

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Speaker 2: I'm thinking of the improv. Oh okay, did you watch

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Speaker 2: a lot of game shows grown up? I know you

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Speaker 2: did the Prices right? You talked about how I used

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Speaker 2: to watch out with your grandma A right.

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Speaker 1: I watched some. I definitely. I mean, Who Wants to

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Speaker 1: Be a Millionaire? Was classic? Well, that was a cultural moment,

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Speaker 1: and I'm not sure if people a whole lot younger

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Speaker 1: than us to remember it because the show came out

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Speaker 1: and what like ninety nine, late nineties, early two thousand,

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Speaker 1: But for a few years, like millions of people, yeah,

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Speaker 1: like tens of millions of people probably were tuned into

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Speaker 1: Regis Philbin hosting Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? Every what,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, a couple nights a week. They they

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Speaker 1: even made it, and it.

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Speaker 2: Was at the last Great American Game show where everybody

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Speaker 2: was watching before the networks, because after that, I think

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Speaker 2: it was all network based and everybody created their own

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Speaker 2: game shows and things split off from there. But it

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Speaker 2: kind of felt like when folks would sit down and

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Speaker 2: I'll watch the same news programs together. This is like

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Speaker 2: a class game show where folks did that. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: I never I don't never really got into it. I

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Speaker 2: love game shows, so I really do. I think they're fine,

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Speaker 2: And so Top Chef is that technically a game show?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I can.

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Speaker 2: They're competing. It's like that very kind Tom Kalikio, Gail Simmons,

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Speaker 2: Hugh Action. Isn't like all those judges, those are those

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Speaker 2: are my people?

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Speaker 3: Okay? And I used to.

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Speaker 2: I probably watched more seasons of Top Chef than any

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Speaker 2: other program other than maybe The Office.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, scrubs.

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Speaker 1: The whole point of this show, by the way, is

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Speaker 1: not to wear monochromatic suits and ties. We just feel

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Speaker 1: it needs to do. Uh he rests in peace. But

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Speaker 1: it really is to talk about like, if you want

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Speaker 1: to become a millionaire, like how do you get there?

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Speaker 1: But also like is that a good goal to have?

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Speaker 1: And there are different, uh inputs that we see all

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Speaker 1: the time in financial media about how much we're supposed

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Speaker 1: to be saving and investing for the future, and I

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Speaker 1: think so can be off putting and downright demoralizing. So

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Speaker 1: how much do you actually need or going to kind

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Speaker 1: of give a framework for that in regards to how

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Speaker 1: much you should be looking to garner in a nest

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Speaker 1: egg for retirement. That's that's kind of what this episode.

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Speaker 3: Is all about.

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Speaker 2: Did you ever listen? Okay, one last question, one last reference.

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Speaker 3: I need a phone a friend now.

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Speaker 2: I was gonna the Bare Naked Ladies if I had

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Speaker 2: a million dollars. Do you remember that song I did back? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: they're more known for one week, one.

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Speaker 1: Week the nineties music still still rocks men still pretty good. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: But Matt, real quick before we get to the kind

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Speaker 1: of millionaire discussion that we want to have to the

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Speaker 1: actual meat Yeah, episode, just I wanted to quickly mention

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Speaker 1: that listener Silas actually created an Excel spreadshe so we

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Speaker 1: had another listener actually create a spreadsheet for the beers

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Speaker 1: that we've had on the show that will also put

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Speaker 1: in the show notes. But Silas he just made a

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Speaker 1: new Excel spreadsheet about literally all the How To Money

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Speaker 1: episodes and he's categorized them so that you can easily

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Speaker 1: find if you're like looking for an episode on transportation

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Speaker 1: or cars, or on investing or saving or whatever, you

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Speaker 1: can just kind of look through there and filter and

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Speaker 1: see which episodes fall under that category. So big thanks

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Speaker 1: to Silas for making that, and hopefully it should help

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Speaker 1: listeners who are trying to either find a past episode

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Speaker 1: they found maybe helpful, or who are new to How

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Speaker 1: the Money and they're kind of trying to figure out, like, well, okay,

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Speaker 1: but I need help with this. Where do I go

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Speaker 1: to get the Because we have like a ridiculous catalog

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Speaker 1: at this point of what six hundred and fifty plus episodes,

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Speaker 1: it can be hard to sort through, So big thanks

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Speaker 1: to Silas for making that a little bit easier for

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Speaker 1: a lot of folks out there.

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Speaker 2: That's right, And maybe one of these days we'll have

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Speaker 2: an ultimate spreadsheet that combines Beer and the Money topics

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Speaker 2: by category and buy abv waight and.

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Speaker 1: Style of beer and by how long your hair was

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Speaker 1: time recording too.

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Speaker 2: Let's quickly introduce the beer that you and I are

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Speaker 2: going to enjoy during this episode. This was a double clutch.

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Speaker 2: This is a nitro oatmeal stout. This one is by

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Speaker 2: Gruner Brothers Brewing again sent to us by Katie so Silas,

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Speaker 2: thank you and Katie thank you. Yeah, this episode could

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Speaker 2: not have happened.

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Speaker 1: Without the help of both of y'all. Yes, thank you

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Speaker 1: so much. All right, but let's get into it. Matt,

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Speaker 1: who wants to be a millionaire? And when we're contemplating

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Speaker 1: this topic, it made me think for some reason, of

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Speaker 1: Sherlock Holmes, who is a literary character of Highest Team.

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Speaker 1: We've all heard of this guy. Part of him, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: most death He saws mysteries, and I feel like the

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Speaker 1: I still remember in the hospital. I think we were

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Speaker 1: having our first child. Emily and I watched the Benedict

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Speaker 1: Cumberbat Sherlock Holmes series, which was really really good. That

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Speaker 1: was like what, yeah, like while Emily was in labor.

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Speaker 1: It was like pre labor, like getting ready.

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Speaker 2: I don't think she now she hates Bennett, right, I

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Speaker 2: can't watch any of his movies exactly.

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Speaker 1: Sorry, Bennedict I'm sure you're a nice guy.

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Speaker 3: Well.

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Speaker 1: The cool thing though about like Sherlock Holmes is that

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Speaker 1: he uses inductive recent to solve his cases. He begins

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Speaker 1: with observations which propel him in the search for the truth,

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Speaker 1: and so deductive reasoning, on the other hand, begins with

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Speaker 1: a hypothesis and then uses facts that you accumulate along

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Speaker 1: the way in order to confirm a theory. But when

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Speaker 1: we're talking about how much we need in retirement and

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Speaker 1: if a million dollars is actually going to be enough,

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Speaker 1: you and I would say that the Holmes the end

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Speaker 1: approach is most helpful. Taking that Sherlock Holmes approach and

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Speaker 1: do some observing and then start asking some questions based

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Speaker 1: on what you can observe, and hopefully this endeavor helps

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Speaker 1: you gain a better understanding of what your goal should

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Speaker 1: be and how they're going to influence your actions. Now

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Speaker 1: I think it's starting from that randomly concocted end goal. Actually,

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Speaker 1: it does this a disservice really, when we're trying to

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Speaker 1: figure out what we should be saving for retirement.

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Speaker 3: That's true. Yeah, And by the.

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Speaker 2: Way, we're you a fan of the Robert Downing junior

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Speaker 2: version of oh yeah, you put out that Sherlock.

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Speaker 3: Now, that was a great one.

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Speaker 2: So like that one because I feel like it was

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Speaker 2: way more action based as a put you know, he's

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Speaker 2: like jumping out of buildings into rivers and canals or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Guy Ritchie, that was like probably the last great thing

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Speaker 1: he did, right.

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Speaker 3: I forgot. Yeah, that's why I like that one man.

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Speaker 1: He made so many good films early on the string

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Speaker 1: of hits.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But so basically when it comes to investing, if you

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Speaker 2: haven't started investing yet, you might be seeing some headlines

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Speaker 2: out there right that say that you need to have

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Speaker 2: a ton of money set aside in order to quit

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Speaker 2: your job in order to actually retire someday. A recent

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Speaker 2: article from Fortune magazine, they basically said that the quote

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Speaker 2: unquote experts that they don't believe that a million dollars

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Speaker 2: is enough that you actually need to have closer to

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Speaker 2: two million. Technically one point nine million dollars set aside,

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Speaker 2: which is that's a ton. And like when you are

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Speaker 2: faced with that much like that sort of headline number,

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Speaker 2: I think it can feel defeating, right, Like, sometimes these

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Speaker 2: stories they can do more harm than good. Instead of

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Speaker 2: encouraging someone to get their act together, they actually might

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Speaker 2: think that they're just a total lost cause, that it's

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Speaker 2: hopeless and they're gonna maybe just end up throwing in

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Speaker 2: the towel.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, if you've barely started and you see that

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Speaker 1: headline number, you just say screw it by end up

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Speaker 1: winning the lottery, what's the point, Yes, exactly. I think

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Speaker 1: it does kind of encourage that lottery ment to a

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Speaker 1: certain extent.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know, we're going to dispel some myths

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Speaker 2: today and we're going to explain how retiring with enough

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Speaker 2: money on hand is actually more attainable than you think.

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Speaker 2: And we're going to talk about how, you know, hitting

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Speaker 2: that one million dollar mark, which, by the way, it

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Speaker 2: actually might be more than enough, but even still, how

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Speaker 2: it isn't impossible when you have decades of time to

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Speaker 2: get there, When you've got time on your side, in particular,

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Speaker 2: it is very achievable.

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Speaker 1: I like how you mentioned the lottery thing, because it

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Speaker 1: is true. I think a lot of people in you

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Speaker 1: think of people who buy lottery tickets as making a

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Speaker 1: horrendous mistake. And it is true that you're very, very

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Speaker 1: very unlikely to win the lottery.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: The odds are heavily stacked against you, and a lot

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Speaker 1: of people spend way too much money on lottery tickets,

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Speaker 1: inhibiting their ability to grow wealth. But some people in

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Speaker 1: some of the most impoverished communities, it feels like that's

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Speaker 1: their only way out is to win the lottery and

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Speaker 1: not buy investing regia because they see headlines like this,

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Speaker 1: I think, and it leads them to believe, well, there's

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Speaker 1: no way that my you know, fifty bucks a month

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Speaker 1: is actually that would which is all I can stomach

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Speaker 1: to invest, is actually going to get me here. Sure,

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Speaker 1: And it's completely demoralizing, and I think it does actually

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Speaker 1: lead to some of those more risky approaches to wealth building,

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Speaker 1: cause they just don't think this is for them, which

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Speaker 1: I get, like, yeah, it makes sense.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they're quite literally going for broke because to them

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Speaker 2: that seems like the most logical path forward as opposed

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Speaker 2: to amassing this impossibly gigantic number.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And there might be another subset of folks, though, maybe

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Speaker 1: on the opposite end of the spectrum, who are further

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Speaker 1: along in their financial journey. You know, maybe you're listening

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Speaker 1: and you do have close to seven figures in the bank,

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Speaker 1: and maybe you're still only in your mid thirties, which

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Speaker 1: is amazing. Yeah, you've done the case. You've done a

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Speaker 1: lot of hard work.

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Speaker 3: Good for you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and so you're crushing it. But even some of

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Speaker 1: those folks, they might be under the impression, Matt, that

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Speaker 1: they need a whole lot more invested in order to

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Speaker 1: comfortably retire. They might have done a whole lot of

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Speaker 1: heavy lifting already, but they might say, I've still got

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Speaker 1: decades of hard work ahead of me. They might fall

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Speaker 1: victim to that one more year syndrome, which kind of

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Speaker 1: seems to never end. You keep kicking, you keep kicking

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Speaker 1: the can down the road. And so building wealth and

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Speaker 1: then feeling comfortable enough to slow down and enjoy some

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Speaker 1: of what you've been able to amass. That requires two

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Speaker 1: different skill sets. And so for those folks, we want

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Speaker 1: to hopefully ease your mind a little too, you know,

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Speaker 1: helping you to see that it's possible to overdo it,

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Speaker 1: and that it is possible to overplan, to oversave, to overinvest,

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Speaker 1: and to overwork, creating a different kind of financial imbalance.

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Speaker 3: That's it. It's hard to overcome, that's true.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And so there's a recent survey as well found

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Speaker 2: that more than seven and ten investors. They say that

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Speaker 2: they need between three and five million dollars on hand

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Speaker 2: in order to be able to retire with ease, And

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Speaker 2: you know, that's an even more daunting task than just

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Speaker 2: saving up a cool mill. But so much of these

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Speaker 2: responses are based on feelings, they're not actually based on facts,

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Speaker 2: and personal finances are so individual, they're so complex that

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Speaker 2: it is hard to come up with us just a

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Speaker 2: simple formula to help everyone out there. Ton't know exactly,

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Speaker 2: you know, what they need to save in order to

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Speaker 2: retire comfortably, But we want to do our best to

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Speaker 2: give you some guide posts so that you better understand

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Speaker 2: what it is that you should be shooting for. Is

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Speaker 2: it a million? Maybe that's the right amount for some

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Speaker 2: folks out there, but others might really want to sock

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Speaker 2: away multiple millions of dollars. And I think others can

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Speaker 2: easily do retirement well on a six figure nest egg.

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Speaker 2: It all depends on a number of factors, and we'll

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Speaker 2: be diving into that during this episode.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I wish there was a calculator and that kind

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Speaker 1: of knew some of that future for you, Like, hey,

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Speaker 1: you're probably going to encounter these health issues and guess

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Speaker 1: what you know, you're probably going to live to the

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Speaker 1: rif old age of ninety one or so. If you

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Speaker 1: knew some of those things and you could plug those

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Speaker 1: into a calculator, you can more easily understand exactly how

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Speaker 1: much you need to save. But we don't have a horoscope,

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Speaker 1: right or is that a horoscope? Is that what that yeah, okay.

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Speaker 2: Tells you the future or yeah, what's going to happen

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Speaker 2: based on yeah, not that you're born in.

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Speaker 1: I haven't had my tarot cards read recently, and so

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Speaker 1: I don't know what's going to happen in the future.

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Speaker 1: And because of that, we have to make kind of

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Speaker 1: some educated guesses, and we have to make sure that

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Speaker 1: we're sacrificing enough for our future selves. But we're also

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Speaker 1: trying to strike that balance constantly while we're doing it right.

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Speaker 1: And let's talk about let's dig into a little bit

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Speaker 1: of data here, Matt. We've talked about a couple of

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Speaker 1: headline numbers that some people assume they need to have,

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Speaker 1: or the experts say they need to have, and so

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Speaker 1: that can actually I think inhibit people's ability or desire

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Speaker 1: to start saving. And talk about some headlines. We're talking

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Speaker 1: about some surveys. But what are the facts, jol All right,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about the facts. So it might be helpful

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Speaker 1: and reassuring to look at the data about how much

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Speaker 1: Americans actually have saved, like what they have in their

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Speaker 1: four to one k's right now, and so the average

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Speaker 1: overall balance inside of four O one K accounts is

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Speaker 1: just a hair over one hundred thousand dollars. But then

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Speaker 1: when we're talking about retirement, those people should have more money,

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Speaker 1: right than just the average four O one K account balance.

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Speaker 1: And so the average person who is sixty five years

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Speaker 1: or over has two hundred and eighty thousand dollars in

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Speaker 1: their retirement accounts. This is according to Vanguard. The facts

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Speaker 1: on the ground really fly in the face of some

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Speaker 1: of these numbers that we've cited already, Like to say

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Speaker 1: that you need a million dollars to retire, or one

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Speaker 1: point nine million dollars like the experts say, or like

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Speaker 1: the feeling that those people have say I need three

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Speaker 1: to five million in order to retire comfortably. Well, it

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Speaker 1: almost feels ridiculous because so many people are able to

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Speaker 1: get by in retirement. Maybe they're not taking like that.

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Speaker 2: Goes contrary to what millions of people are actually doing

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Speaker 2: right now.

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Speaker 1: So these people have not even high six figures, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: we're talking two hundred and eighty thousand dollars on average.

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Speaker 1: That's what a lot of folks are retiring with, and

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Speaker 1: they are able to make ends meet. Maybe they're not

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Speaker 1: taking like cruises on the Danube three times a year. Maybe,

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe they're not taking private jets to the Heiti.

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Speaker 3: I don't.

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Speaker 1: I mean, these are the kind of sacrifices that people

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Speaker 1: make when they don't have millions and millions of dollars

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Speaker 1: in their retirement accounts when they retire, but they're still

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Speaker 1: able to live. Many of these folks a lovely existence

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Speaker 1: on a whole lot less than a nest egg of

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Speaker 1: multimillions that a lot of people just assume they have

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Speaker 1: to have saved up.

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Speaker 2: So, you know, it seems that there's like something of

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Speaker 2: a disconnect between the amounts that Americans have invested versus

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Speaker 2: the amounts that they think that they that they need.

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Speaker 2: And you know, we're not gonna spend much time on

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Speaker 2: happiness here, but I wonder how much of a factor

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Speaker 2: this dissonance plays in happiness and life satisfaction. You just

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Speaker 2: mentioned like the euro river boat cruises.

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Speaker 3: It makes nice. I have never been one.

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Speaker 2: When you look at the list of the world's happiest countries, dude,

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Speaker 2: there are about a dozen European countries that rank higher

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Speaker 2: than the US. And I'm not sure if it's a

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Speaker 2: coincidence or not, but a much higher percentage of Americans

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Speaker 2: believe that they need to have a lot more like

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Speaker 2: a ton, more than just a million dollars set aside

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Speaker 2: than Europeans think. It's almost as if we've set our

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Speaker 2: standards too high. It almost as if we've doomed ourselves

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Speaker 2: to failure. So of course you're gonna have a country

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Speaker 2: full of folks who are significantly less happy than their

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Speaker 2: European counterparts, if they feel like they are constantly missing

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Speaker 2: the mark, if they feel like that they are regularly

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Speaker 2: coming up short in a certain way. I wonder if

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Speaker 2: the different expectations that we've set for ourselves as a country,

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Speaker 2: how that might that right there, might be actually leading

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Speaker 2: us to have just lower levels of satisfaction and happiness.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think when you have this visceral feeling that

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Speaker 1: you're behind the eight ball all the time, and I

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Speaker 1: think that's the way a lot of Americans feel, and

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Speaker 1: I think it means for a lot of people that

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Speaker 1: their expectations are too high. And I don't know what

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Speaker 1: makes people feel like they need four or five million

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Speaker 1: dollars in order to be able to retire with ease

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Speaker 1: when a whole lot of people are doing it well

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Speaker 1: with a whole lot less. Maybe it's the comparison game

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Speaker 1: that we are apt to play.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe they don't. Yeah, cribs, you know, that's what

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Speaker 2: the whole thing off, right?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Was that exhibit hosting that back in the day or

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Speaker 1: is he doing.

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Speaker 3: The pit my ride? I don't know he did. I

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Speaker 3: think he did ride.

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Speaker 1: Okay, if you want all the fancy stuff in retirement,

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Speaker 1: then this is how much you're going to need to

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Speaker 1: save up. But the truth is it's not that extreme.

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Speaker 1: And I do think you're right that having lower expectations

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Speaker 1: is going to lead to less consternation around how much

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Speaker 1: we need to actually save for retirement. And I think

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Speaker 1: we can be happier saving less, enjoying more of the

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Speaker 1: day to day and not feeling as overw about creating

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Speaker 1: some massive, multimillion dollar nest egg. But it's also hard

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Speaker 1: to figure out exactly how much you need to save

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Speaker 1: and so next we're going to talk about a wide

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Speaker 1: variety of factors that will influence how you think about

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Speaker 1: how much you need to have saved up, including debt

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Speaker 1: and inflation, which has changed the dynamic for a lot

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Speaker 1: of retirees. We'll get to our thoughts on those fronts

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Speaker 1: right after this.

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Speaker 3: All right, we are.

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Speaker 2: Back from the break, and we're going to get to

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Speaker 2: I guess, more of the practical application side of our

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Speaker 2: episode here in a little bit. But first we wanted

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Speaker 2: to spend a minute talking about just mindset and how

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Speaker 2: it is that we should be thinking about wealth and

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Speaker 2: having enough. And so a question you might be asking

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Speaker 2: yourself is whether or not you even need to hit

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Speaker 2: millionaire status, because that's going to depend on a number

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Speaker 2: of different factors out there that we're going to get

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Speaker 2: into now. Because if you are in your early twenties,

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Speaker 2: I think it might be easy to think that you

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Speaker 2: won't need that much, or that the fairly inexpensive lifestyle

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Speaker 2: that you're able to happily live now that's going to

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Speaker 2: suit you well, you know, thirty, forty, even fifty years

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Speaker 2: down the road. But the truth is that might not

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Speaker 2: be the case. Things might cost more money or I

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Speaker 2: guess not things, but just what your life looks like

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Speaker 2: might evolve over time.

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Speaker 1: Because you're less into the hostile and you might want

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Speaker 1: a hotel room instead, and you know what that is,

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Speaker 1: what my own room. I think that is one of

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Speaker 1: those changes in expectations that is normal and okay, and

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Speaker 1: I think it's yeah, I don't have any problem. I

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Speaker 1: I think it's kind of cool when people in their

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Speaker 1: fifties or sixties still want to do the hostile lifestyle.

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Speaker 1: More power to you, But there's a lot of people

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Speaker 1: who their expectations do change a little bit over time,

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Speaker 1: and I think there's a difference between those expectation changes

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Speaker 1: and lifestyle creed.

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Speaker 2: I think that's the biggest argument against that. Economists that

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Speaker 2: put out the consumption smoothing model where he was talking about, oh, no,

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Speaker 2: you're going to consume a lot, like go ahead and

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Speaker 2: consume more relative to how much you are able to

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Speaker 2: make and invest early on, and then you're just going

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Speaker 2: to maintain that over time, because I think it's really

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Speaker 2: tough to maintain that as you get older. There are

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Speaker 2: certain things that you're not willing to partake in that

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Speaker 2: you're not willing to participate in in order to just

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Speaker 2: simply save a buck.

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Speaker 1: Can I look back to those ways in which I

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Speaker 1: was hyper frugal back in the day, and I'm glad

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Speaker 1: I didn't inflate, not only because it helped me to

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Speaker 1: save more, but because it felt.

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Speaker 2: Like it would have gotten too out of hand.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that I had like a runaway train.

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Speaker 1: I like that I had to do it on a

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Speaker 1: shoestring budget when I was you know, nineteen twenty twenty one. Yep,

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Speaker 1: that I was finding free places to stay. That I was,

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Speaker 1: you know, trying to do it as inexpensively as possible.

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Speaker 1: I saw it as a game. And now it's kind

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Speaker 1: of nice that I can afford to ramp up my

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Speaker 1: lifestyle at least a little bit. You know, I'm not

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Speaker 1: going out of hand, but yeah, I'm glad I didn't

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Speaker 1: do it back then.

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Speaker 2: And so I mean that's like lifestyle from like a

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Speaker 2: just how you're spending maybe additional money. But even like

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Speaker 2: you and I man like we're frugal dads, and even

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Speaker 2: still we found that life gets more expensive as you

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Speaker 2: have kids. Sure, and you know we're not doing private

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Speaker 2: island vacations with our family or anything like that, not yet,

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Speaker 2: But we're also not finding the absolute cheapest option on

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Speaker 2: everything when it comes to our family and our kids.

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Speaker 1: Not CouchSurfing anymore, Matt, even though I did back in

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Speaker 1: the day, Well, definitely, it'd be hard to.

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Speaker 2: Do that with your kids, and so I'm not sure

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Speaker 2: how well that would fly.

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Speaker 3: With the folks that you would visit.

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Speaker 2: But bottom line, I think just giving yourself a certain

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Speaker 2: amount of wiggle rim, just a certain amount of margin

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Speaker 2: for air as you plan and save for the future,

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Speaker 2: that that's really important. And that's sometimes in the fire movement,

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Speaker 2: it's just land and we'll talk about specific numbers in

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Speaker 2: a little bit, but it's twenty five extra expensives, and

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Speaker 2: it's like your expensive today or your expensive further down

441
00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:28,040
Speaker 2: the road, because they might not be the same, and

442
00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,000
Speaker 2: so you have to take that into consideration. I think

443
00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,600
Speaker 2: something else that's important to mention here is a higher

444
00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:35,679
Speaker 2: savings rate has multiple benefits. It's not only that you're

445
00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,680
Speaker 2: able to stock away more money, specifically hopefully into those

446
00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:42,200
Speaker 2: retirement accounts, letting that money compound for you for years

447
00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:45,399
Speaker 2: and decades, but it also means that you have a

448
00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:51,600
Speaker 2: lower amount of monthly outgoing funds. You basically have less

449
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:54,920
Speaker 2: to fund for retirement if you're keeping your budget more

450
00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:58,159
Speaker 2: in check. And call me conservative Matt, but there's something

451
00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,280
Speaker 2: comforting I would say about save a bit more than

452
00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,119
Speaker 2: you think you're going to need, leaving yourself more margin

453
00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:06,800
Speaker 2: and the ability to change your mind on things. And

454
00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:10,120
Speaker 2: so you know this likely means exceeding the savings rate

455
00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:12,800
Speaker 2: that you might think you need in order to garner

456
00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:16,600
Speaker 2: yourself more cushion. Because maybe, yeah, just mentioned fire. Maybe

457
00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:18,760
Speaker 2: you discovered the fire movement five years ago and you

458
00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:21,800
Speaker 2: quickly calculated some back of the napkin math and you determined, hey,

459
00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:24,159
Speaker 2: I only need three hundred thousand dollars set aside to

460
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:28,200
Speaker 2: quit my day job because my expenses are so infinitesimally small.

461
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:30,560
Speaker 2: I want to go for that lean fire because I live.

462
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:32,280
Speaker 1: In my mom's basement and that's.

463
00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:32,840
Speaker 3: All I need. Fire.

464
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:35,639
Speaker 2: By the way, financial independence, retire early, Yeah, that's what

465
00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:36,119
Speaker 2: that stands for.

466
00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:37,440
Speaker 1: But let's say your mom says I don't want you

467
00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:39,280
Speaker 1: in this basement any longer. I'm kicking you out. Well,

468
00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:41,720
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, your expenses go up, and so yeah,

469
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:44,960
Speaker 1: has and even if you discovered a five years ago

470
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,440
Speaker 1: your life is already probably a change since that inflection point.

471
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:50,960
Speaker 1: And my guess is in the last five years, with

472
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,760
Speaker 1: the reality of inflation, but maybe even just the reality

473
00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:56,119
Speaker 1: of the fact that you want different things out of life,

474
00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:59,240
Speaker 1: the amount that you need to save has changed. Maybe

475
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:01,400
Speaker 1: you've gotten married to maybe you bought a house, maybe

476
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:02,919
Speaker 1: you had a couple of kids, And if so, I

477
00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:05,640
Speaker 1: can pretty much guarantee that will look like a lot

478
00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:07,760
Speaker 1: to you five or ten years ago just isn't going

479
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:09,320
Speaker 1: to cut it today. And so you know, we I

480
00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:11,000
Speaker 1: think we want to set up those both ends of

481
00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:13,680
Speaker 1: the spectrum at that Some people tell you need five

482
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,280
Speaker 1: million dollars to retire, or a lot of people think

483
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:18,640
Speaker 1: that that's not true. But then other people think, I'm

484
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:20,800
Speaker 1: going to be able to retire with four hundred k

485
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,160
Speaker 1: in the bank at the ripe old age of forty two.

486
00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:25,480
Speaker 1: And that might be a bit naive as well.

487
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:27,360
Speaker 2: It might be pulled the trigger a little too soon

488
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:30,040
Speaker 2: for you to do that, But that's totally dude. When

489
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,040
Speaker 2: Kate and I first discovered fire, that's essentially our story.

490
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:35,920
Speaker 2: We did some math while we were in the car

491
00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:38,640
Speaker 2: and we were like, oh man, based on these projections,

492
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:40,760
Speaker 2: we're going to be able to retire in five years.

493
00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:42,440
Speaker 3: I loved that it was car math that you did.

494
00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:44,800
Speaker 2: Oh okay, we're just sitting in the car talking, having

495
00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:46,720
Speaker 2: it fall in numbers, a discussion we were all the

496
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,080
Speaker 2: way job. We were on the way to a photography job.

497
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:52,200
Speaker 2: And I still remember that conversation that we had as

498
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,480
Speaker 2: we talked about Downton Abbey, because because they were that's

499
00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:57,399
Speaker 2: how they were able to They're living off the estate,

500
00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:00,159
Speaker 2: living off the fat of the land. But yeah, as

501
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:02,840
Speaker 2: you get older, your responsibility like you basically you just

502
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:05,960
Speaker 2: gain more responsibilities, and oftentimes you are you've got other

503
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:08,480
Speaker 2: folks in particular that are counting on you to be

504
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,040
Speaker 2: able to not be selfish and to be able to

505
00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:13,199
Speaker 2: work hard and to earn money. Yeah, and you know,

506
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:15,280
Speaker 2: I think it's also worth thinking ahead a little as well,

507
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:18,280
Speaker 2: and just thinking through maybe how much debt you might

508
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:20,920
Speaker 2: still have hanging around once you are ready to quit work,

509
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,119
Speaker 2: because if you still have a mortgage, well, if you've

510
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:26,760
Speaker 2: got a crazy low rate and maybe you are still

511
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:30,240
Speaker 2: able to earn more just a plain ole savings account,

512
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:32,040
Speaker 2: well that's not necessarily going to be a bad thing

513
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,520
Speaker 2: to still have a low rate mortgage. But if you've

514
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,879
Speaker 2: got high interest rate credit card debts, well that's gonna

515
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:39,439
Speaker 2: certainly change the dynamics.

516
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,880
Speaker 1: And you know, you've still got student loans hanging around.

517
00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:44,440
Speaker 1: That's another thing that a lot of people are finding that. Yeah,

518
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:46,640
Speaker 1: especially people, and there are more people in retirement now

519
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:47,879
Speaker 1: with student loans than ever before.

520
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and you mentioned inflation as well. Don't forget

521
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,359
Speaker 2: the fact that just the costs of basic goods and

522
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:56,160
Speaker 2: services are constantly changing. You know, we've seen costs skyrocket

523
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,800
Speaker 2: over the past couple of years. Nobody would have ever

524
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,600
Speaker 2: guessed that we were going to see inflation numbers nearing

525
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:05,200
Speaker 2: double digits, and so planning for the future it involves projecting,

526
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,399
Speaker 2: even though it's impossible to be one hundred percent accurate

527
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,840
Speaker 2: about what our future is actually going to hold. Again,

528
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,520
Speaker 2: this is when having some additional paddings, some of that

529
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,359
Speaker 2: additional margin that's gonna really come in handy.

530
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm all about some extra cushion, extra margin oftentimes

531
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:22,359
Speaker 1: even just for kind of what it does for you

532
00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:22,680
Speaker 1: from a.

533
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 3: Mental perspective, like take some of that stress off me.

534
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, what if the market does, you know,

535
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 1: underperform for a little while, or what if my you know,

536
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,879
Speaker 1: costs do exceed when I thought they were going to exceed.

537
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,480
Speaker 1: Having that extra cushion means you don't have to freak out.

538
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,040
Speaker 2: What if I graduate from craft beer to fancy wine

539
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:40,920
Speaker 2: and I am taking private jets to Island's jewel right,

540
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 2: I know, I'm mean, I need a little bit of

541
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 2: money in the bank. It's going to masterally change how

542
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:45,919
Speaker 2: much you need to say, that's for sure. And so

543
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 2: there's part of us Matt that wants to air on

544
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,159
Speaker 2: the side of having more just in case. But I

545
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,359
Speaker 2: will say this too, We also think that a majority

546
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,680
Speaker 2: of Americans probably don't need to have as much socked

547
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,239
Speaker 2: away as they think, especially when we're talking about those

548
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 2: people who think they need to read a five million

549
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 2: And I would say a lot of people are more

550
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:04,520
Speaker 2: in touch with the lifestyles of the rich and the

551
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:08,359
Speaker 2: famous than we are our own actual desires, right, And

552
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 2: so we kind of see the I'm just reading a

553
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,160
Speaker 2: story the other day about influencers not just renting time

554
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,280
Speaker 2: on a private jet to take a picture, but literally

555
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 2: rooms that make it look like you're on a private

556
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,160
Speaker 2: jet in order to take a picture. Oh, I've seen

557
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 2: that there's like a first class cockpit, yes, somewhere that

558
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,480
Speaker 2: you can go and rent side of that where you

559
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 2: can take selfies.

560
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 1: And it only fuels so I think the desire for

561
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,120
Speaker 1: everyday ordinary people to say I need that, even though

562
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:34,160
Speaker 1: what that is it's fake.

563
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,920
Speaker 2: It feels that unhappiness. Yeah, going back to what we're

564
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 2: talking about before.

565
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:39,160
Speaker 1: And then it feels that like I think I need

566
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:42,399
Speaker 1: more than I actually do and in creases perpetual, just

567
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 1: devastating cycle for people. Yes, but like what lifestyle do

568
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:47,960
Speaker 1: you expect to live in retirement? I think that's a

569
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,360
Speaker 1: good question for us to be to be asking ourselves,

570
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:52,639
Speaker 1: Like and you and I were, neither of us are

571
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:56,400
Speaker 1: about trying to be filthy rich and that private jet

572
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 1: lifestyle just has no appeal to either one of us.

573
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,359
Speaker 1: But really, sickly thinking through what expenses you're likely to

574
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 1: have when you do stop working, I think is important.

575
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 1: If you're the kind of person who's more inclined to

576
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,880
Speaker 1: go on hikes, to volunteer, to hang out with maybe

577
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 1: grandkids or something like that, you probably don't need as

578
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:13,880
Speaker 1: large of a nest egg as someone else who wants

579
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 1: to travel extravagantly like hit every continent and you know,

580
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 1: or wants to move to a beachfront of state. Those

581
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,120
Speaker 1: are different calculations that we have to make. So if

582
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 1: you can need less, if you can be content with

583
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:29,440
Speaker 1: having fewer things and not making those big, opulent purchases,

584
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,160
Speaker 1: it of course extends directly to how much you're going

585
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,200
Speaker 1: to actually need to have saved up for your future.

586
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

587
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 2: Actually, so on that note, I think it's important to

588
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 2: mention that being a millionaire, it often really doesn't look

589
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,119
Speaker 2: that impressive. In fact, I think you'd be hard pressed

590
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 2: to recognize an actual millionaire most of the time because

591
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 2: they don't advertise it. With the things that they buy

592
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 2: or the things that they wear, you know, the things

593
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 2: that they're consuming. They often just look like your average

594
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,160
Speaker 2: middle class individual, but they are living that stealth wealth

595
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 2: lifestyle that we actually talked about this back in episode

596
00:24:58,760 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 2: six point fifty.

597
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 3: But there's just a.

598
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 2: Massive difference between lifestyle creep and intentionally choosing to spend

599
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 2: more money as you get older. It makes me think

600
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 2: back to our conversation with Jesse. He's the founder of

601
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 2: Why Nab You Need a Budget, and he talked about

602
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 2: as I think his splurge was going to be some

603
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 2: nice leather boots. And he also talked about working in

604
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,639
Speaker 2: his woodshop, not necessarily because it is making him money,

605
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:25,639
Speaker 2: not because it's a side hustle, but because it's just

606
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 2: something that he simply enjoys. It's something that he is

607
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 2: willing to pour more resources into, even though from a

608
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 2: financial standpoint doesn't really make a whole lot of sense.

609
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,200
Speaker 1: Well, he also said it wasn't lifestyle creep to move

610
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:38,879
Speaker 1: out of that crummy apartment that they were in that

611
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:40,400
Speaker 1: had mold growing in the corners or whatever.

612
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 3: Oh, that's right.

613
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 1: That was literally just a choice that they made, and

614
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 1: as their income grew, they had the ability to choose

615
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 1: something different, and it wasn't a bad idea to get

616
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:51,880
Speaker 1: the heck out of there, especially with how many kids

617
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 1: they had.

618
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 2: I'm sure they handed out there. But you can still

619
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,680
Speaker 2: retain that frugal nature. You can still continue to save

620
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 2: and invest your money, even if you spend more in

621
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 2: a particular area that's going to be more important to you.

622
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think as you get older, as your

623
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 1: nest egg grows, the calculation that you have to make

624
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,399
Speaker 1: when you're making bigger purchases change. It changes, and it

625
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 1: actually it gets easier to spend in certain ways. I

626
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 1: think I was talking. I had a conversation with a

627
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,160
Speaker 1: friend recently. He went to a concert, Matt. They had

628
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 1: twenty dollars peers twenty dollars for a local craft beer.

629
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 1: And this is in California, where everything's more expensive. But

630
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:25,199
Speaker 1: it just made me think, like, when I was in

631
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 1: my twenties, there's no way I would have allowed myself

632
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 1: to spend that much. I knew that I needed to

633
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,120
Speaker 1: be investing more and more. I am now thirty nine,

634
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 1: and I enjoy a craft beer, and so if I'm

635
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 1: out of a show, I might allow myself one one maybe,

636
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: but even at twenty bucks, Like it hurts my heart

637
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,120
Speaker 1: to kind of pour that much into a one time

638
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 1: beverage while out.

639
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 3: That's true. Yeah.

640
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:45,680
Speaker 2: So I think another problem too, is just the way

641
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 2: that our country views retirement, because oftentimes I think it's

642
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 2: presented as like either this black or white thing, like

643
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 2: you are either working as hard as you possibly can

644
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 2: or you're retired and you're doing nothing. But we just

645
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 2: think that that's a false dichotomy and that there are

646
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 2: other good options out there. So, like, consider how happy

647
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 2: you might be just by dialing back at work a

648
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 2: little bit but still earning a paycheck where you're still

649
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 2: like you still haven't earned income. It comes down to

650
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 2: how it is that folks view what a lot of

651
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 2: folks call retirement, which is still, as we've talked about,

652
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 2: a relatively new phenomenon.

653
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: Like, it's not like retirement has been around for forever,

654
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 1: so we've certainly gotten used to it. Yeah, but over

655
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 1: the past fifty years, when we've created a really dialed

656
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 1: in definition of it, that doesn't necessarily have to be

657
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,400
Speaker 1: the case. In all likelihood, it shouldn't be the case.

658
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: It's actually probably a bad definition.

659
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 2: I think so. Yeah, And so essentially what we're talking

660
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 2: about here is transitioning from working a whole lot to

661
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 2: just working a little bit less, as opposed to going

662
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 2: like quitting work cold turkey. And I think this makes

663
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 2: sense from a financial standpoint, right, because you're able to

664
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 2: like gradually come down from that income. But this also

665
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 2: makes sense from like what your days are going to

666
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 2: look like perspective as well, because I think it's just

667
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 2: so hard to imagine going from working fifty plus hours

668
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 2: a week like a lot of Americans are, to sitting

669
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,160
Speaker 2: around doing like who knows what And that's because we're

670
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 2: a society of specialists. I mean not just in the US,

671
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 2: but I think a lot of countries are taking this path.

672
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 2: A lot of us are really good at our jobs,

673
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,120
Speaker 2: and because of that, it's the main focus. And unfortunately,

674
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 2: we just haven't put much effort into developing our other

675
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 2: interests that make life rewarding and then make retirement rewarding too. Yeah,

676
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 2: and I think we need to intentionally cultivate and to

677
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 2: essentially design, like in our minds that like this can

678
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:29,880
Speaker 2: either be a mental exercise or like just I guess,

679
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 2: literally writing it out or living it out on the weekend,

680
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 2: like what could this look like? Because it's I think

681
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 2: that maybe that's the difference. Maybe that's the problem is

682
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 2: that folks they go Monday through Friday and they're working hard, hard, hard,

683
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 2: and it's crazy, and then on Saturdays and Sundays they

684
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 2: go crazy watching sports and they're thinking, well, I don't

685
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 2: want to do that like seven days of the week,

686
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 2: and so instead, like, because it is sort of a

687
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 2: black and white thing, maybe it would be helpful to

688
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 2: actually map out, to design what your life would actually

689
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 2: look like. And I think that as a society that's

690
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 2: something we could do more of as well, is to

691
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 2: find ways to cultivate and foster some of those other

692
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 2: interests outside of our work.

693
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, having other things than work that make you tick

694
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 1: is important the whole way through life. But when you

695
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 1: get to retirement, if you don't have those things, boy,

696
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: it makes retirement a whole lot more difficult.

697
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 3: I think.

698
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's why a lot of people do

699
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 1: go back to work because they're like, retirement was boring.

700
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: I don't think it has to be, Like I really

701
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 1: think if we're a little more intentional about cultivating some

702
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 1: of those hobbies, some of those interests along the way,

703
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 1: we don't have to be scared by retirement. I think

704
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: it can be a good thing. We can lean into

705
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: it really, really nicely. But yeah, that all to nothing,

706
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 1: that cold turkey, like you said, I think is understandably

707
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 1: scary for a lot of people who aren't quite prepared.

708
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 1: And let's talk about autonomy as well, Matt, because I

709
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: think it's important to mention that retirement can be it's

710
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 1: not this all or nothing thing, and it can be

711
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 1: kind of more of a choose your own adventure and

712
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 1: choose how you approach it. And our listeners, and everyone

713
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 1: out there is more in control of their future than

714
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 1: they might feel like they are in the moment. And

715
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 1: so when it comes to diale in how much you

716
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: need to save and invest for retirement, well, you have

717
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 1: the ability to change a lot of factors in what

718
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 1: retirement is going to cost you. So, for instance, just

719
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: because you live in a high cost of living state

720
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 1: at the moment, it doesn't mean that you'll need to

721
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 1: stay there when you reach retirement age. If you live

722
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 1: in California right now, that doesn't mean you have to

723
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: stay there when you reach retirement age. Some states don't

724
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 1: tax your retirement income at all, and that may make

725
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 1: an influence might influence you about where you decide to live.

726
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 1: You might opt to stay close and not move anywhere

727
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 1: because family and community are important to you and those

728
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 1: you don't want to move away, even though it's not

729
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 1: necessarily the cheapest place to live. But the more flexible

730
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 1: you can be, the more likely it is that you

731
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 1: won't even need a million dollars in that four to

732
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: one k when you retire. And so if you're willing

733
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: to make significant changes like moving to another state or

734
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 1: maybe moving to another country altogether, you're going to find

735
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 1: that your nest egg is going to be able to

736
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 1: stretch much further than your current expenses might lead you

737
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 1: to believe. It's a vastly different things to retire in

738
00:30:58,200 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 1: Hawaii than it is in Mississippi. Mat when you look

739
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 1: at the like, I think some recent status just came

740
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 1: out about that.

741
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 2: And it might even feel like a different country moving

742
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 2: from Hawaii to Alabama.

743
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 1: They're very different places, very different places. But on top

744
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 1: of that, you might move to choose to move to Thailand, Panama, Columbia,

745
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:16,479
Speaker 1: some of these really inexpensive places for expats where your

746
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 1: dollar goes even further. Maybe you're wanting to live that

747
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 1: Caribbean lifestyle, but do it at a fraction of the cost,

748
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 1: and that means you won't have to save or invest

749
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 1: nearly as much either. There are other decisions you can

750
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 1: make in that kind of choose your own adventure, dial

751
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 1: in how much you need for retirement scenario.

752
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 3: But I think.

753
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 1: About like the cost of living and where you choose

754
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 1: to live in retirement makes a massive difference. If you're

755
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 1: able to even like sell a home that's worth eight

756
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars and then you rent a little beat

757
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 1: shack in Panama for twelve hundred a month. Just think

758
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 1: about how long you can last even without having saved

759
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 1: and invested much at all.

760
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 2: That's true, and you're just touching on location, right. I

761
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 2: think there are so many other things we also have

762
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 2: control over, just like the going back to designing your

763
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 2: life and the different hobbies that you might want to pursue.

764
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:00,239
Speaker 2: Heads up, if you're going to get into goalf, it's

765
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 2: probably gonna cost you a lot of money, and so

766
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 2: you have control over whether or not that that's something

767
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 2: you pursue. I was joking about getting into fancy wines

768
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 2: a second ago, but this is a part of the

769
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 2: reason why I actually have intentionally avoided. I feel like

770
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 2: I put blinders on when it comes to nicer wines

771
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 2: because when I do have a nicer wine, I really

772
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 2: like it, and I don't want to learn more about it,

773
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 2: because if I get really into it, it's going to

774
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 2: be something that I'm afraid I'm going to find myself

775
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 2: pursuing even more.

776
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 1: And you can choose to pretend they don't exist. Literally,

777
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: I absolutely do.

778
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 2: I'm still willing to buy a decent bottle that's on

779
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 2: sale there at Costco, but there are a lot of

780
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 2: different things that we have control over, and I think

781
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 2: it's important to remind ourselves of that as we are

782
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 2: thinking ahead to our future. But we've discussed basically how

783
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 2: it is we should be thinking about retirement and how

784
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 2: much money we should be setting aside for the future.

785
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 2: But we're gonna dive into some of the practical steps.

786
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 2: We're going to get into some of the nuts and bolts.

787
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 2: That way you can legitimately determine how much it is

788
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 2: that you're going to need to set aside for a retirement.

789
00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:07,959
Speaker 1: We'll get to that right after this. All right, now,

790
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 1: let's keep going. Let's talk about becoming a millionaire, whether

791
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 1: or not that's a good goal. It is for some,

792
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 1: it's not for others. Some people do need to save

793
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 1: up three to five million if you're going to live

794
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 1: that lavish retirement lifestyle that you've been dreaming of, But

795
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 1: other people need a whole lot less. But we've talked

796
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 1: about the need for flexibility. It makes me think of

797
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: my mother in law who said, you know what we

798
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 1: want to do. We want to retire and get in

799
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 1: an RB. They bought the RB, they lived in it

800
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 1: for six months, and they said we hate this thing

801
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 1: and they had to ditch it.

802
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 3: And so you don't know.

803
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 1: Really what your retirement lifestyle is going to look like

804
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 1: until you get there. So you have to plan kind

805
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: I think you know, yeah, yeah, may not. And you've

806
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 1: got a plan for kind of a multitude of potential circumstances.

807
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 1: But let's now talk about kind of some of the

808
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 1: practical steps. Even though there's a lot of unknown when

809
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 1: it comes to planning for our retirement future, some of

810
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: the practical steps to get to the end goal that

811
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 1: makes the most sense for you. And so we would say, first,

812
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 1: calculate how much you might need, and I stress might

813
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 1: because there are still so many unknowns, like we've talked

814
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 1: about already, instead of throwing in the towel because three

815
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:11,799
Speaker 1: point nine million feels like an impossible goal, or just

816
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 1: saving as much as humanly possible, even though you wish

817
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 1: you could be spending a bit more. In the here

818
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 1: and now, use some math to your advantage. So use

819
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 1: data to help you understand what your actual needs are

820
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 1: likely to be. And I mentioned this briefly earlier, and

821
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,800
Speaker 1: I talked about how it's an imperfect calculation, but twenty

822
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: five x your likely annual expenses gets you a decent

823
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,800
Speaker 1: understanding of what you should likely be shooting for. And again,

824
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 1: because of inflation, because of time, a variety of factors,

825
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 1: the fact that it's hard to predict what our outgoing

826
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 1: expenses are going to be every single month with accuracy,

827
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 1: especially when we're talking about thirty years down the road.

828
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 1: It is imperfect, but it is helpful. So, for example,

829
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 1: let's say you're spending thirty five thousand dollars a year

830
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 1: as a family annually right now, because you're hyper frugal, Well,

831
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 1: you might want to say, what if it was sixty

832
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: thousand dollars by the time we get to retirement. Sixty

833
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 1: thousand dollars times twenty five gives you one point five

834
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 1: million dollars. Maybe that's the number you need to be

835
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 1: shooting for. I think it's at least a good rule

836
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 1: of thumb. Then it's a good starting point, that's right.

837
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so the twenty five times rule, it's based

838
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,319
Speaker 2: on the safe withdrawal rate of four percent. And we're

839
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 2: not going to dive into like the research and all

840
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 2: the studies that this is based, but just know that

841
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 2: the twenty five x rule that is based on the

842
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 2: safe withdrawal rate of four percent. And a practice that

843
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 2: we would recommend is for you to track your net worth.

844
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:34,840
Speaker 2: If this is not something that you're already doing. We

845
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,720
Speaker 2: talked about this back in episode to fifty seven. And also,

846
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 2: your net worth is not going to go up like

847
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 2: clockwork every single year, but the general trend should be

848
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 2: up into the right. By the way, don't start to

849
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,879
Speaker 2: think that your personal worth is tied up in your

850
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 2: actual net worth and how much money you have. That's

851
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 2: that's a bit ridiculous. But do add up your assets,

852
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,840
Speaker 2: add up your liabilities, and do the math to figure

853
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 2: out your net worth on an annual or a semi

854
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 2: annual basis. You can do this either manually or you

855
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 2: can check out in power that was it used to

856
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 2: be called personal capital, but that's another great way to

857
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:12,919
Speaker 2: automatically track that. But it is just a great way

858
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:14,919
Speaker 2: to follow your progress and to see how you're doing

859
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,919
Speaker 2: over time, because it's amazing. How maybe it's not amazing, actually,

860
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 2: maybe it's discouraging. How it can feel like you're moving

861
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,360
Speaker 2: just at a snail's pace, How you're just moving inches

862
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 2: in those first few years, but then it feels like

863
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 2: you're moving feet at a time, maybe.

864
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 1: After a decade much bigger strides.

865
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 2: I can't imagine what it'll look like, you know, for us,

866
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 2: like when we get to be warm Buffetts age and

867
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 2: by the way, the vast majority of his wealth it's

868
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 2: come after retirement age thanks to the power of compounding returns.

869
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 2: And so hopefully when you calculate how much you need

870
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 2: to have set aside in your portfolio to retire, right

871
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 2: you multiply your annual expenses by twenty five in order

872
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 2: to figure out that dollar amount.

873
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 3: Hopefully you are encouraged.

874
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 2: But even still, I think there might be some individuals

875
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 2: who might be slightly discouraged because it still feels like

876
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 2: this massive sum of money. But I just touched on

877
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 2: compounding returns, and what I want to highlight here is

878
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 2: that because you might be saying yourself, there's no way

879
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:09,279
Speaker 2: I'm going to be able to close that gap. This

880
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 2: is how much I have currently I did the net

881
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 2: worth thing, this is how much I need. How it's

882
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 2: like I'm not going to be able to bridge that gap.

883
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 2: And what I'm here to say is that it's not

884
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 2: completely up to you in order to set us. It's

885
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 2: not savings right like we're talking about investing here. So

886
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 2: it's not how much and how hard it is that

887
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 2: you can work in order to bridge that gap. It

888
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 2: also comes down to how hard your money is going

889
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:35,239
Speaker 2: to work. When it comes to bridging that gap and

890
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 2: making up the difference. The amount of money you're going

891
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 2: to have in retirement is going to be far in

892
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 2: excess of what you contributed because of compounding returns, right,

893
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 2: and so let's talk about that. One of the most

894
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 2: practical ways to get to the point where you have

895
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:52,399
Speaker 2: enough in retirement is to stick money into those tax

896
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 2: advantage retirement accounts. And most millionaires, Matt, they actually achieve

897
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 2: that millionaire status purely directly by investing in retirement accounts

898
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 2: through work. It's crazy, but it's true. A lot of

899
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 2: people assume that it's through an inheritance or through having

900
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,439
Speaker 2: some big time job, but no, that's not the case.

901
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 2: There are so many retirement account millionaires that make up

902
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,919
Speaker 2: a big bulk of the millionaire class. They got there

903
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,799
Speaker 2: over the decades. And so if you're contributing something like

904
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 2: two three four percent of your income into a retirement account,

905
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 2: it's probably not going to be enough to propel you

906
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,800
Speaker 2: towards millionaire status unless your salary is ridiculously high, in

907
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 2: which case true, you probably are going to need more

908
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 2: money because you're spending most of that. But if you

909
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 2: can sock away fifteen plus percent of your pay, plus

910
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,319
Speaker 2: snagging a company match at the same time, that will

911
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 2: make it quite likely that over the years, in the decades,

912
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 2: you're going to easily achieve that mantle. You're going to

913
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 2: be able to have that status of retirement account millionaire.

914
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 2: And so in twenty twenty three, workers can contribute a

915
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 2: maximum of twenty two five hundred dollars per year to

916
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:58,360
Speaker 2: tax deferred plans like a four H one K or

917
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 2: four H three B, which would two if you did

918
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:05,240
Speaker 2: this over thirty years of your working career, six hundred

919
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 2: and seventy five thousand dollars of total contributions. But if

920
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,240
Speaker 2: you do quick math, assuming a seven percent annual return,

921
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 2: which is pretty online, historically, the contributions would grow to

922
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 2: be worth over two million dollars over those decades. So

923
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 2: we're talking about saving up basically less than a third

924
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:22,879
Speaker 2: of what you would have over time, which is pretty cool.

925
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,919
Speaker 2: So granted, twenty two to five is a lot to

926
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,959
Speaker 2: be able to set aside to invest in a single year,

927
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 2: and especially trying to do that every single year over

928
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 2: thirty years not necessarily easy, but it just goes to

929
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 2: show you even if you did, if you did half

930
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 2: of that, you would be over a million dollars in

931
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 2: those decades. So just important to note that this is

932
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 2: one of the easiest best ways to get there slowly

933
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:47,239
Speaker 2: but surely by making those contributions with every paycheck when

934
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 2: it comes to like a way to illustrate compounding growth

935
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:52,919
Speaker 2: is imagine a pond and it's got a lily pad

936
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 2: there on the pond, and at the end of the month, right,

937
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 2: so say you're starting out on day one, say by

938
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 2: day thirty one, the pond is going to be completely

939
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:02,799
Speaker 2: covered in lily pads. This is a lily pad that

940
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 2: likes to multiply by one hundred percent. It doubles every

941
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 2: single day. And if you were to ask somebody, okay, hey,

942
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 2: when is that pond going to be halfway covered in

943
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:12,760
Speaker 2: lily pads.

944
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 1: A lot of people would say day sixteen or seventeen.

945
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 2: The way our minds work, we think linearly and we think,

946
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 2: oh yeah, about halfway through the month, when in fact,

947
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 2: if you think about it for maybe a second longer

948
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:24,279
Speaker 2: you realize, oh no, it's literally day thirty, it's the

949
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 2: day before the last day of the month that the

950
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 2: lily pads only cover half of the pond. And so

951
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 2: that is the power of compounding. Granted, you're not like

952
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:35,919
Speaker 2: you're not going to see one hundred percent returns within

953
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 2: your portfolio. But the idea here is just to illustrate

954
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 2: the power of compounding. Angel you were just talking about

955
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 2: how you would sock away six hundred and seventy five

956
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 2: thousand dollars in total contributions if you have a workplace

957
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 2: retirement account, and how that's much less than the two

958
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 2: million total that you would have at the end of

959
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 2: your working career. But if you don't have access to

960
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 2: a natural workplace retirement account, you can still become a

961
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 2: millionaire only simply maxing out a roth IRA. And so

962
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 2: instead of socking away just over twenty two thousand dollars

963
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 2: a year, you've only got to invest sixty five hundred

964
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 2: and you do that for roughly thirty seven years, and

965
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 2: it's very very likely that you're gonna have seven figures

966
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 2: on hand, And so keep that in mind as well.

967
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 2: You don't have to have a four to one K

968
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 2: with a sweet match in order to hit that millionaire status.

969
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 2: And another recommendation for folks, turn on automatic increases for

970
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 2: your contributions the amount that you are putting towards retirement

971
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 2: if you do have a workplace retirement account. And this

972
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 2: is just a simple way that you are going to

973
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:37,799
Speaker 2: be able to set it and forget it. You just

974
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 2: make that quote unquote hard decision just once, and your

975
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:45,399
Speaker 2: contributions are gonna increase maybe one or two percent each year. Man,

976
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 2: Like when Warren Buffett he was asked about why more

977
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 2: people don't copy his approach when it comes to investing,

978
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 2: he said that it's because nobody wants to get rich slowly,

979
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,440
Speaker 2: and man, he is totally right. Because the sexy, the

980
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 2: unproven route it holds appeal to so many folks, but

981
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 2: nobody wants to map out a game plan for the

982
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,239
Speaker 2: next thirty years. But it is going to be the

983
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 2: most surefire away to actually become a millionaire.

984
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of people say they envy Warren Buffet

985
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 1: or they look at him with admiration, but most people

986
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 1: don't want to follow that path. So that's the allure

987
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 1: of crypto, right, that's the llure of NFTs or single stocks.

988
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:23,879
Speaker 1: It is to be able to go to the moon

989
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 1: really quickly, but most people end up getting burned and

990
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 1: it only prolongs their ability to reach financial independence to

991
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:33,840
Speaker 1: meaningfully build wealth through their future, and getting rich slowly

992
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:36,839
Speaker 1: is the surefire way to do it, but you're right,

993
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 1: it takes more time than most people want to give.

994
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 1: And this is an instance, Matt, when it really pays

995
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,320
Speaker 1: to keep things incredibly boring by investing in low cost

996
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 1: index funds, which, yeah, investing doesn't need to be sexy

997
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 1: and shouldn't be sexy if you want to become a millionaire,

998
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:53,400
Speaker 1: If you want that super fun, investing the lights, the

999
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 1: bells and the whistles, you're less likely to get there.

1000
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 1: And instead, we want you to focus on ways that

1001
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:02,879
Speaker 1: you can afford to increase those contributions over time. How

1002
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 1: can you dial those up little by little over time.

1003
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:08,880
Speaker 1: You talked about automatically increasing contributions every year. I think

1004
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 1: that's one good way to do it. Also, I want

1005
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 1: to make an argument for being frugal and being able

1006
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 1: to invest more of your income over the years and decades,

1007
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 1: because it really adds up. And I think one thing

1008
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:20,799
Speaker 1: that can help us to do that. We just talked

1009
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 1: about it in a recent how to Money newsletter, was

1010
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 1: using the rule of one seventy three to your advantage

1011
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 1: so you can see how much current recurring expenses are

1012
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:32,399
Speaker 1: actually costing you. The truth is, we all have small

1013
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 1: leaks in our financial lives, and a lot of them

1014
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:37,959
Speaker 1: are happening on a recurring basis, like subscriptions that we

1015
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:41,800
Speaker 1: sometimes even forget about. But plugging a bunch of small leaks,

1016
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:43,760
Speaker 1: it doesn't feel like it's going to have a massive

1017
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:45,799
Speaker 1: impact over just the course of a single month. But

1018
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 1: the rule of one seventy three helps us understand just

1019
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,400
Speaker 1: how much those recurring trips are costing us over the

1020
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 1: course of a decade. So because that helps us see

1021
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 1: not just how much it is leaving our account, but

1022
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:00,880
Speaker 1: that amount plus the market return and we're missing out on.

1023
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 1: So how do you use this rule? Will just multiply

1024
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:06,759
Speaker 1: that monthly expense by one hundred and seventy three and

1025
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 1: you'll see the amount of money you would have had

1026
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 1: over the course of a decade had you rained in

1027
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 1: that expense and invested it instead. So let's say you

1028
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:16,240
Speaker 1: are spending too much eating out, which is a problem

1029
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:18,799
Speaker 1: for most Americans, Let's say you spend one hundred dollars

1030
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 1: less on eating out. You're able to cut that budget back.

1031
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:24,840
Speaker 1: That's seventeen three hundred dollars more in your retirement account

1032
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,839
Speaker 1: after just ten years, which just helps put a small

1033
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 1: leak in perspective as to how much you could actually

1034
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 1: grow that money over time if you were to do

1035
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:35,479
Speaker 1: something better with it instead of using it on uber

1036
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 1: eats and all that stuff.

1037
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 3: That's true.

1038
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:38,279
Speaker 2: And by the way, you said cut back on a

1039
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 2: hundred dollars, you didn't say just to eliminate it completely.

1040
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 2: You can still go out to a restaurant here and there,

1041
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:46,360
Speaker 2: but the ability just to rain in some of your expenses.

1042
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:49,280
Speaker 2: The rule of when seventy three helps put that in perspective.

1043
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:51,359
Speaker 1: Well, like we talked recently on a Friday flight about

1044
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 1: how Americans are spending more eating out than they are

1045
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 1: on groceries, and if you would just flip that equation

1046
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 1: a little.

1047
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:58,360
Speaker 3: Bit, you can easily find one hundred bucks. That's right.

1048
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so these different calculations like these are just

1049
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 2: simple rules of thumb that it shouldn't be the final

1050
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 2: say as to how much you're going to have after

1051
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 2: ten years or how much you need to have set

1052
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 2: aside for retirement. But they should help you to have

1053
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:13,840
Speaker 2: a decent understanding of how much you'll need to set aside.

1054
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 2: But the bottom line is that there are so many

1055
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 2: other considerations, like whether you're going to have other sources

1056
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 2: of income beyond what you've invested in retirement accounts.

1057
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 3: You need to.

1058
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:25,360
Speaker 2: Consider how much you're going to be receiving in Social

1059
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 2: Security payments that are coming in. Do you have some

1060
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 2: rental property, do you have some pension income.

1061
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 3: Maybe you're going to.

1062
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:33,400
Speaker 2: Continue to work part time, like we talked about earlier,

1063
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:36,440
Speaker 2: as you might be considering some different ways to transition

1064
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 2: from that full time, high paying job to something that

1065
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:42,360
Speaker 2: maybe doesn't pay quite as much. So the more flexible

1066
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 2: you can be, the more options you'll have. And you

1067
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 2: certainly want to make sure that you take into accounts

1068
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 2: some of the additional sources of income that you're going

1069
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 2: to have in addition to how much you've soked away

1070
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 2: for retirement.

1071
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:53,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned social Security. That's one of

1072
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 1: those things too that you have. If you're more flexible,

1073
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:57,680
Speaker 1: if you can delay, you know, if it makes sense

1074
00:45:57,719 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 1: for you to delay, and then if you can delay

1075
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: taking social Security until later sixties or you hit seventy,

1076
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:05,759
Speaker 1: which almost nobody does. But if you do that, you

1077
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 1: can get a guaranteed eight percent return every single year

1078
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:10,759
Speaker 1: you wait to take it, and that can make a

1079
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 1: massive difference in the amounts you're able to collect in

1080
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 1: that check, meaning you have to invest last for your

1081
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:18,759
Speaker 1: future too, because social Security is carrying more of the burden.

1082
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:21,239
Speaker 1: It's meaning more of your monthly expense. And a lot

1083
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 1: of people, I think, especially younger folks, they're down on

1084
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:26,840
Speaker 1: the role that social Security is going to play in

1085
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 1: their retirement. And we certainly don't want that to be

1086
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 1: your main source of income when you stop working. We

1087
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:36,320
Speaker 1: want you to be proactively taking care of your retirement

1088
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 1: future now as you invest for the long haul. But

1089
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:42,239
Speaker 1: for a lot of retirees, Matt, it is it is

1090
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:44,320
Speaker 1: the main source of income. And so even with the

1091
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 1: awkward spot that social security is in from a political perspective,

1092
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 1: you and I we've talked about this, we still expect

1093
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:52,839
Speaker 1: that at minimum, you're going to get paid seventy five

1094
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 1: percent of the amount that the Social Security Administration says

1095
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:58,359
Speaker 1: you're due. We need to make changes to shore social

1096
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:01,200
Speaker 1: Security up for years and decades to come, and there

1097
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 1: doesn't seem to be the political will to actually make

1098
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 1: that happen. But for those even for gen z ers

1099
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:09,880
Speaker 1: out there thinking well, I'm not counting on social security,

1100
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 1: I mean, I think you need to invest and save

1101
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:13,759
Speaker 1: for your own future, and you don't want to count

1102
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 1: on it exclusively, of course, but to assume that there's

1103
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 1: not going to be any social security would be highly unlikely.

1104
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:20,480
Speaker 1: There would be some.

1105
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:23,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, so heads will roll before.

1106
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 1: Entitlements are there. A gonna be a lot of politicians

1107
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 1: at office if that's the case.

1108
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:27,439
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1109
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 2: So let's close this with the great words of Thomas

1110
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:31,759
Speaker 2: soul And he's got a quote where he says that

1111
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 2: there are no solutions, there are only trade offs. And

1112
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 2: I think that it's no surprise that we're drawn to

1113
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:41,320
Speaker 2: different headlines that taut specific numbers that we should be

1114
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 2: shooting for. I think we're oftentimes looking for a way

1115
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 2: to simplify things, right, Like, we live in a very

1116
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 2: chaotic world, and when there is chaos like this, I

1117
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:53,360
Speaker 2: think we are as individuals, we try to create some clarity,

1118
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 2: and we try to attach our goals and our sites

1119
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 2: to something that feels very tangible. Yeah, saving for retirement.

1120
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 2: We that is that is not an easy endeavor when

1121
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 2: it comes to cobbling together multiple sources, whether that's through

1122
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:08,239
Speaker 2: your roth IRA, maybe a little bit, a little bit

1123
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 2: of four and K, maybe a little bit of rental income,

1124
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 2: a little bit of social security, it is complex and

1125
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:16,799
Speaker 2: it is difficult, and because of that, oftentimes we are

1126
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 2: looking for just a very simple, easy answer. There are

1127
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:22,759
Speaker 2: no simple easy answers. But hopefully we have been able

1128
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 2: to reframe how it is that you think about retirements

1129
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 2: and that that will give you some actionable steps to

1130
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:32,280
Speaker 2: help inform how it is that you think about retirement,

1131
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:34,440
Speaker 2: but also actual steps that you can actually take that

1132
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 2: will allow you to get there, to not just feel

1133
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:38,759
Speaker 2: like you're going to be prepared for the future, but

1134
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 2: to actually get prepared and to be prepared by the

1135
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 2: time you reach those later years.

1136
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 1: Or to realize that you already are preparing well because

1137
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:48,320
Speaker 1: you're you've already you're already investing in nineteen twenty percent

1138
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:50,279
Speaker 1: of your income and you're like, I'm well on my way.

1139
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:51,879
Speaker 1: It feels like I need to do more, but maybe

1140
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 1: I don't. Yeah, you happen to strike it just right.

1141
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:57,759
Speaker 1: You're not oversaving somehow you are living life in the

1142
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:01,279
Speaker 1: here and now, you are finding balance while also saving.

1143
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 3: Four the future.

1144
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 1: You've reseat Goldilocks level, which is great. But I think, yeah,

1145
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 1: going back to kind of what I talked about at

1146
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 1: the very very beginning, that Sherlock Holmes approach, like do

1147
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 1: some observing, ask some questions, and keep doing that over

1148
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:13,440
Speaker 1: the years. It's not Oh, I don't think it's a

1149
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:15,880
Speaker 1: one time conversation or a one time thing. You have

1150
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:17,279
Speaker 1: to kind of keep going back to that. How are

1151
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 1: we doing on our progress? And that's why you mentioned

1152
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:22,799
Speaker 1: tracking your network. That comes into play too. But the

1153
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:25,520
Speaker 1: more we're kind of following along and seeing how we're

1154
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:28,759
Speaker 1: doing in our progress and are we continuing to save

1155
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 1: and invest at the rates we hoped at the rates

1156
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:33,360
Speaker 1: we need to in order to achieve the goal that

1157
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:35,240
Speaker 1: we have that's going to be different than everyone else's

1158
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:37,879
Speaker 1: goal because we all have hyper unique situations. I think

1159
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 1: that that's an important ongoing conversation. But Matt, let's get

1160
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 1: back to the beer we had on this episode. This

1161
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 1: was called Double Clutch Nitro oatmeal stouts. This was from

1162
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:49,520
Speaker 1: a brewery in Wyoming called Gruner Brothers. What was your

1163
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:50,440
Speaker 1: take on this one.

1164
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:52,400
Speaker 2: Well, I would say it was incredibly smooth with the

1165
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 2: nitro that they had in this can so any any

1166
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:57,239
Speaker 2: beers out there that are they're not fermented, they're just

1167
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 2: I guess pumped with nitro. They're gonna come out really silky.

1168
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:03,440
Speaker 2: If you're a fan of Guinness, you would be a

1169
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:06,400
Speaker 2: fan of this beer because it's not carbonated with CO

1170
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 2: two actual carbonation, but it's with nitro.

1171
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it does.

1172
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:13,280
Speaker 2: I guess is it nitrogen xax side?

1173
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 3: Is that? I guess?

1174
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:16,840
Speaker 1: Well, the two things I wrote down were Guinness and

1175
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:20,280
Speaker 1: silky like what you mentioned, because it does have bingo

1176
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 1: massive Guinness vibes with a little more of an oatmeal

1177
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:25,480
Speaker 1: vibe going through because it is an oatmeal stout. So

1178
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:27,719
Speaker 1: but yeah, if you like Guinness, this is kind of

1179
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 1: one of those beers it would be totally up your

1180
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:32,839
Speaker 1: alley you would love. I personally do like Guinness. I

1181
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 1: typically I don't drink it very often. It's been a

1182
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 1: long time. Same but as and by the way, did

1183
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 1: you realize Guinness is actually one of the lower calorie

1184
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:42,439
Speaker 1: beers out there. Surprisingly people don't think so interesting because

1185
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:44,239
Speaker 1: it's so it feels so heavy and bready and people

1186
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:46,520
Speaker 1: think that it's heavy, Yeah, but it's not. It's actually locale.

1187
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:48,400
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think Guinness is a great beer, and

1188
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 1: I think this one was kind of in that vein

1189
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:51,839
Speaker 1: just as good, probably a little bit better.

1190
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 3: Actually nice. Well it's called double clutch.

1191
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:55,400
Speaker 2: Do you know what that's referring to.

1192
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 1: Is it like an old van or it looks like

1193
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:00,720
Speaker 1: some sort of old truck that had two two clutches.

1194
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 2: So well, yeah, yeah, so I think with like I

1195
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:04,759
Speaker 2: think tractor trailers still have to do this, but you

1196
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:07,120
Speaker 2: have to double clutch, which means you have to push

1197
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 2: the clutch down in order to pull out of the gear,

1198
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:11,279
Speaker 2: but then you have to repress it again in order

1199
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 2: to get it into the next year.

1200
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:13,800
Speaker 3: So it's double clutch.

1201
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:16,839
Speaker 1: I will say I'm miss driving a manual transmission car.

1202
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 1: I will do it again someday. And I hear that

1203
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:20,759
Speaker 1: coming back into vogue a little bit. Did I tell

1204
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 1: you about driving my buddies. He's got like a it's

1205
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:26,759
Speaker 1: like a seventies or maybe an early eighties FJ to

1206
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:27,279
Speaker 1: get an FJ.

1207
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 2: Oh No, obviously it was a manual four speed, but

1208
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:33,279
Speaker 2: definitely drives like an old truck or like an old

1209
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 2: tractor basically, And I will say, I'm patting myself on

1210
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:37,959
Speaker 2: the back. I didn't stall out once.

1211
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 3: Look at you.

1212
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I probably would sall like, it's been so long,

1213
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 1: it's been so long.

1214
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 2: So long for me as well as I was. Yeah,

1215
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:46,200
Speaker 2: was so nervous trying to parallel park an old FJ

1216
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:49,360
Speaker 2: on a city street. Yeah, I was all sweating bullets.

1217
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:51,279
Speaker 1: I get it. I would be too, I would be too.

1218
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:53,600
Speaker 1: I still remember those first days driving to Manual. It

1219
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:55,880
Speaker 1: was not pretty. I stalling out on main roads and

1220
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:57,719
Speaker 1: stuff like that, But stalling out on a hill, Yes,

1221
00:51:57,719 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 1: what's more terrifying than But that's the worst. Especially when

1222
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:01,279
Speaker 1: someone's like right up on your bumper. You're like, I'm

1223
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:02,000
Speaker 1: gonna kill them.

1224
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, please back up?

1225
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 1: All right, that's gonna do it. For this episode, you

1226
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 1: can find show notes links to some of the resources

1227
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:11,880
Speaker 1: we mentioned up on our site at howtomoney dot com.

1228
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:13,719
Speaker 1: Don't forget about the how to Money newsletter. Just go

1229
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:16,080
Speaker 1: to how tomoney dot com slash newsletter. Sign up for that.

1230
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:18,840
Speaker 1: It's free, it's fun, it's informative, and you'll get it

1231
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 1: in your inbox every Tuesday morning. But Matt, that's gonna

1232
00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:23,800
Speaker 1: do it for this episode until next time. Best Friends

1233
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 1: Out and best Friends Out