WEBVTT - Gary Cohn 0:00:01.080 --> 0:00:03.360 Hi everyone, I'm Emily Chang and this is Bloomberg Studio 0:00:03.440 --> 0:00:06.360 one point out. As one of Wall Street's biggest players 0:00:06.400 --> 0:00:09.560 for the better part of the last three decades, Gary 0:00:09.600 --> 0:00:12.879 Khan spent years as president and CEO of Goldman Sachs, 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:16.960 nearly getting the top job. Then he made a big 0:00:17.000 --> 0:00:20.119 career change, joining the Trump administration as Director of the 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:24.119 National Economic Council. He spearheaded the effort on tax reform 0:00:24.239 --> 0:00:27.360 and stuck with the president before resigning after fourteen months 0:00:27.520 --> 0:00:30.479 following a battle over tariffs with other factions of the 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:33.440 Trump team. What's his time with the White House worth it? 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:36.120 Where is he spending his time and money now? The 0:00:36.200 --> 0:00:39.639 answer is in part technology. Joining me on this edition 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:41.960 of Bloomberg Studio one point, oh, former head of the 0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:52.839 National Economic Council, Gary con I'd like to start with 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:57.279 your big picture mid pandemic view. We're in a very 0:00:57.280 --> 0:00:59.400 different place than when you left the White House a 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:02.640 couple of years ago. How would you characterize the state 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:07.000 of the U. S economy right now? So one thing 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:10.440 is we have to remember how resilient the United States 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:13.880 economy is. If we all think of what we've been 0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:17.640 through since March of this year and where we are 0:01:17.760 --> 0:01:21.759 now in December. I think it's nothing short of extraordinary 0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:25.440 to how resilient we've been, how well the consumer has 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:28.560 held up, and how well the economy has held up, 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:32.240 in spite of the fact that we've gone through almost 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:37.640 every negative iteration we could go through, from completely shutting 0:01:37.680 --> 0:01:40.800 down the economy at one point, which we now understand 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:44.320 all of the ills both for the economy as well 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:47.720 as the emotional and psychological well being of the country, 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:51.720 having all these little micro events in different parts of 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:54.440 the country go on one by one. In spite of 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:58.920 all that, the U. S economy continues to recover, It 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:03.800 continues to find ways to find a path forward. Since 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:06.920 you left government, you have explored new territory, You have 0:02:06.960 --> 0:02:10.280 a spack of course, you are on some tech startup boards. 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:13.280 Tech has cushioned the blow of the pandemic and also 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:19.280 accelerated huge changes in human behavior. What COVID borne technologies 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:23.320 do you think are here to stay? So Emily, we've 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:27.480 learned a lot in the last eight months, and we'll 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:30.560 continue to learn, And I think the covi IS has 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:36.120 accelerated a lot of the technologies that were coming naturally. 0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:41.520 If it's payment or fintech today. We didn't invent fintech 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:44.760 eight months ago, but we're using more and more of 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:48.359 the payment apps and we all want to be uh 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:51.160 touchless or hands free. We don't want to be touching 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:54.359 pens or writing or signing pieces of paper, so we're 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:58.240 using touchless what touch us payment systems? I think the 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:02.400 biggest question coming out COVID for me is going to 0:03:02.480 --> 0:03:06.560 be this data and freedom of data issue because we've 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:09.640 seen a lot of the problems. Think about the whole issue. 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:12.600 When we went through the Cares Act. One of the 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:15.600 big cornerstones of the Cares Act is that we sent 0:03:15.960 --> 0:03:20.280 money out to individuals, well deserving individuals in the United States. 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:24.000 It took the federal government, using all of their powers, 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:29.320 months to find people and and to actually be able 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:32.640 to disseminate cash to them, cash that they wanted and 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:34.560 cash for the government was trying to get to help. 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:39.480 We have technology solutions that would solve that. I'm just 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:42.880 not sure people are willing to give up the freedom 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:46.080 to have technology solve that problem. We just went through 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:50.160 an election. Think of the the the the maybe controversy 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:53.840 or maybe not controversy around the election, um and all 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:58.640 the discussion around standing in line to vote, UM, and 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:02.880 all the discomfort that that created. We have the technology 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:08.800 to create your real biometrically enhanced voting where you literally 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:13.280 could vote anywhere biometrically, whether it's voting from your iPhone 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:16.400 or go into a polling place and using your biometrics 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:20.640 to vote. We would have a accuracy on knowing who voted, 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:23.560 when they voted, where they voted from, not who they 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:27.200 voted from. But there are a lot of technology solutions 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:30.920 that we could be using, and maybe we should be using. 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:35.280 But we're going to run into this natural antibody of 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:40.159 what information people are comfortable having out in the system 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:43.320 and what information people are are free having are comfortable 0:04:43.360 --> 0:04:46.280 with the government having. And I know you're investing across 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:50.359 biometrics and cybersecurity. What about the security concerns and the 0:04:50.480 --> 0:04:56.039 risks associated with incorporating more biometrics, more of us giving 0:04:56.120 --> 0:05:00.400 our own data into these solutions. Well you you you've said, 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:04.120 I am a huge fan of biometrics. UM. I think 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:07.400 that biometrics are going to play a bigger and bigger 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:11.480 role in our lives. Um. We we only have one 0:05:11.560 --> 0:05:15.120 set of the biometrics. You only have one handprint. You 0:05:15.200 --> 0:05:18.480 only have one retina scan and you were born with it, 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:21.080 and you die with it, and you carry it with 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:23.760 you for life. Now, when I went to vote, and 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:26.760 I'm not criticizing my voting system, you know, I literally 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:29.080 went in there and said, hey, I'm Gary Cone. They 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:31.640 looked me up and I signed, and as long as 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:34.640 my signature looked like the signature before I got to 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:37.000 go vote, if I said hey, I'm Gary Cone, I 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:40.400 put my hand on a biometric hand reader, there would 0:05:40.440 --> 0:05:42.839 be no way I wasn't Gary Cone. They would know 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:44.680 exactly who I was. I wouldn't even have to tell 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:46.800 my name. I could just put my hand down on 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:49.800 the scanner and it would come up life. How bullish 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:52.880 are you on bitcoin and cryptocurrency and how much do 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:58.120 you believe they will fundamentally transform our economy? So when 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:00.040 we talk about blockchain, and we can come back and 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:03.000 talking about the infrastructure, that's the highways and the pipes 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:07.960 that are necessary for bitcoin, but they're necessary for many 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:11.320 other applications, and I think they're very useful and I'm 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:15.840 very bullish on that. When you talk about bitcoin in itself, 0:06:17.240 --> 0:06:20.880 I don't have a strong opinion on bitcoin I'm in 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:25.880 asens I'm not a strong believer in bitcoin. Why not it? 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:30.320 Is it developing assets potentially, and for all the reasons 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:37.039 it's a strong developing asset class, it may fail. Remember, 0:06:37.760 --> 0:06:41.200 part of the integrity of an asset class, or part 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:44.719 of the integrity of a system, is knowing who owns 0:06:44.720 --> 0:06:47.760 it and knowing who has it, and knowing why it's 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:51.680 being transferred and is it being used for legitimate causes? 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:54.800 Is it being used for good or is it being 0:06:54.880 --> 0:06:58.320 used for illegitimate causes? Is it being used in corrupt 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:03.599 practices and corrupt way is the big coin system today 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:06.920 has no transparency to it. So there are a lot 0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:11.280 of people that question, why would you need a system 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:14.520 that does not have an audit trail, does not have integrity. 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:17.280 You don't know who owns it, You don't know exactly 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:20.040 how much exists today, how much has been mine, how 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:22.440 much has been lost, how much has been thrown away 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:26.040 on hard drives because they don't exist anymore. So it 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:30.200 lacks some of the basic integrityes of a real market. 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:34.200 And then you have to get into the idea or 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:38.560 the concept that it's a theoretical value. It's a theoretical value, 0:07:39.120 --> 0:07:41.080 and there's a lot of other things that happens. It's 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:44.200 a theoretical value because someone is willing to buy it 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:46.880 or someone is willing to sell it at that price today, 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:50.880 but there's nothing tangible behind it. At least, when you 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:54.640 buy announce of gold, you can deliver announce of gold 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:57.840 isign Someone may think it's worth two thousand dollars today. 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:02.480 In six months from now, it maybe where but at 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:05.520 least you know you're getting announced a goal which is 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:07.760 no different than a house, or no different than a 0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:10.880 piece of art, or no difference than something else. It's tangible. 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:14.360 At no point in time are you ever going to 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:18.240 be able to take tangible delivery of a bitcoint? How 0:08:18.280 --> 0:08:22.120 should the FED in a new administration be approaching alternative assets? 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:27.040 So I think as bitcoin continues to evolve, it will 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:30.280 get more and more regulatory scrutiny, because at the end 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:34.680 of the day, the regulatory community always is looking out 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:36.640 to make sure that no one gets hurt, and they 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:40.559 want to make sure that there's no unsuspecting investor that 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:43.360 ends up owning something that they didn't know what they 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:45.800 own and they lost a lot of money because they 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:49.120 didn't understand it. So how does the payments landscape look 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:52.960 different than and let's say a decade. Does cash disappear 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:58.920 in this unprecedented economy and new economic activity that we're seeing, Well, 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:03.160 I think can easily disappear. I mean, the idea of 0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:08.760 paper currency in the legitimate world is becoming more and 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:12.000 more obsolete and and I believe it can become totally obsolete. 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:19.200 But the fintech payment systems are also not going to 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:23.600 replace the banks. There's a big difference between a fintech 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:29.000 payment system and a fintech ability to move cash and 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:33.120 the banking systems. And remember, the banking systems are big, 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:38.119 they're highly regulated, and they're regulated again to protect investors. 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:43.200 They're they're they're regulated and protect depositories. So when someone 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:48.440 puts money into a bank that is highly regulated, they 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:51.240 are a hundred percent confident that they can get their 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:54.960 money out at and moments notice. And there's an enormous 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:59.600 amount of very expensive and very costly regulation that goes 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:02.960 around owned that concept that if I put a dollar in, 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:05.079 or I put fifty cents in, or I put a 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:08.200 hundred dollars in, whenever I want to withdraw it, it 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:12.600 will be there for me and therefore to take deposits 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:15.880 and pay interest on them. When you agree to be 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:19.120 in that business, you agree to have an enormous amount 0:10:19.240 --> 0:10:24.360 of regulatory birth. If you're just in the money movement business, 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:28.040 you have a lot less regulatory for burden on you. 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:31.440 But the question is how does the money get into 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:35.920 the money movement system. So today, if you want to 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:39.800 put your money into a money movement system, you can 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:42.560 either charge your credit card and put it into the system, 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:46.640 which is going back into the traditional banking system. You 0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:50.640 can do a money movement from a traditional bank into 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:54.280 one of these bind tech platforms, but you're still relying 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:58.679 upon the regulated part of the system to initiate the 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:09.520 cash flow into the unregulated part of the system. This 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:11.920 is my conversation with the former director of the National 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:15.600 Economic Council, Gary com Up Next. Much like big banks 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:18.600 have faced regulation, what are his thoughts on big tech 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:23.199 regulation now and his outlook on the public markets. I'm 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:41.760 Emily Chang, this is Bloomberg Studio. At one point, oh now, 0:11:41.960 --> 0:11:46.320 you said that Janet Yellen will make an excellent Treasury Secretary. 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:49.640 Biden's economic team is now shaping up. What is your 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:55.360 advice for them? My advice overall is the growth and 0:11:55.480 --> 0:11:58.600 stability and statements in the economy has to be their 0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:01.719 number one objective. So when you look at where we 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:04.040 are in COVID, you look at where the economy is 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:07.920 right now, and you look at the danger we have 0:12:08.640 --> 0:12:13.319 of still fairly massive unemployment, especially unemployment in the unskilled 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:16.080 part of the labor sector. The fact that we've lost 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:19.920 over fifty small businesses in America. And we all know 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:23.920 that small businesses are the drivers of jobs and and 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:27.000 of job growth. And I always remind people every large 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:30.440 business in America started as a small business. So if 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:32.920 we want to get new larger businesses, we have to 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:36.120 stimulate small businesses. I would say, look, the first thing 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:37.840 you have to do is figure out how to get 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:41.880 more stimulus into this system. As we evolve into the 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:45.719 Biden administration, the key job for a lot of these 0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:48.880 people is to make sure that we build sound fundamental 0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:53.120 economic growth into the United States. We have to become 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:55.240 a doctor. We have to stay, not become We have 0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:58.680 to stay a dominant economic power. I remind people where 0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:01.680 we were in the in the early part of this year, 0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:05.319 which is not that long ago, in January and February 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:09.800 we basically had an economy growing in three percent. We 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:12.360 had three percent wage growth, and we had three percent 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:16.200 GDP growth. Those were good numbers. Those are numbers that 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:19.800 we were striving for. I think the new administration would 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:22.920 be ecstatic to get back to those numbers over the 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:27.320 next four years. Biden's nomination of Yellen is now official. 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:31.080 She has said she will work towards rebuilding. What are 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:33.760 your thoughts on her in particular? I know that you've 0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:36.360 worked with her and the leadership you expect her to bring. 0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:39.320 We worked extremely well together when I was in the 0:13:39.320 --> 0:13:42.480 White House. We had a very good working relationship. I 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:45.960 find her to be very practical, very pragmatic, have a 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:49.280 very deep and broad understanding of the U. S economy, 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:51.520 And I'm very confident that she's going to step in 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:54.040 and do a very good job. She needs the help though, 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:57.360 she needs help of Congress to get stimulus going. She 0:13:57.520 --> 0:14:00.839 can't do this by herself. You know, every in Washington 0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:03.760 is a team effort. She can be a leader and 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:06.320 she can show real leadership, but other people are going 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:09.199 to have to show followship. Now. I want to talk 0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:11.120 a little bit about the public markets, because they have 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:14.840 been on a tear. Can this keep up? We've got 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:18.640 to complete disconnect in some respects between the largest companies 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:22.040 in America, which are the companies we talk about every 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:24.640 day when we're talking about the stock market and what's 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:27.640 going on in the real economy, and when we look 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:32.320 back at what happened during covid in, one of the 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:35.400 big takeaways should be and I pray that this is 0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:38.400 one of the big takeaways, is that when we made 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:41.200 a decision and I'm not criticizing this, this decision at 0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:44.560 the time to shut down the US economy and deem 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:49.520 certain businesses as essential and other businesses non essential. We 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:54.720 unfortunately deem the largest companies in America as essential. So 0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:58.080 we allowed the big companies to stay in business, but 0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:03.960 unfortunately the local neighborhood business that sold the identical products 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:07.320 we deem to be not essential and we shut them down. 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:11.480 And so what ended up happening is the largest companies 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:15.720 in America got a market share, and they got that 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:20.160 market share for zero costs. We would force as consumers 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:22.760 in the United States to go to the largest companies 0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:26.120 because they were the only ones open. So we needed food, 0:15:26.160 --> 0:15:28.360 or we needed prescriptions, we were forced to go to 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:30.920 the big box retailers. But when we were in those 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:34.080 big box retailers, we were able to buy clothes, We 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:37.120 were able to buy shoes, we were able to buy appliances, 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:40.040 things that the smaller companies on main street all over 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:44.280 America's soul. So the stock market right now is representing 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:48.720 the fact that the largest companies in America got substantially 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:51.200 bigger during this crisis because they were the ones that 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:56.840 were open well. And some of those are tech companies Apple, Google, Facebook, Amazon? 0:15:57.440 --> 0:16:01.200 Has big tech gotten too big? Do tech companies need 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:06.760 regulation like uh Dodd Frank legislation, which some in Silicon 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:09.800 Valley has been have been advocating. So look, I think 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:14.960 you can't generalize on big needing regulation. Sometimes you can 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:17.800 be very big and not need regulations. Sometimes you cannot 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:21.360 be huge and need regulation. You know, it really depends 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:26.600 on what are the barriers to entry? Can people come 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:31.720 in and compete with you? Are you horizontally and vertically integrated? 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:35.160 So therefore, do you have a huge competitive advantage because 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:39.040 not only are you providing you know, one product, but 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:41.520 the one product you provide leads you to another product, 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:44.680 and another product and another product. So therefore a new 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:48.040 startup couldn't get there and could compete with you initially. 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:52.760 And also are you competing against other businesses that are 0:16:52.800 --> 0:16:56.960 regulated now? So are you therefore on a unfair or 0:16:57.160 --> 0:17:00.240 not a level playing field? And if you started seeing 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:03.920 those questions, yes, then you're going to or you should 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:07.159 be regulated to look like you're on a on a 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:11.440 fairly level playing field with the existing companies that are 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:21.280 regulated today. You're listening to my conversation with Gary Khane, 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:25.000 former director of the National Economic Council. Up next, the 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:28.280 former CEO of Goldman Sachs shares his thoughts on the 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:31.840 spac crates and was his time with Trump worth it. 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:35.200 I'm Emily Chang and this is Bloomberg Studio. At one point, Oh, 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:54.560 stay with us. Let's talk about your spack. What is 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:57.000 the latest on your SPACK efforts. In the kind of 0:17:57.000 --> 0:18:00.720 companies you're looking for. We're looking for goods, sound companies 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:03.080 that are going going to be around for the next 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:06.159 hundred years. So I want to buy a company that 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:09.320 I'm happy to own for the next twenty or thirty years. 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:12.120 And do you think this BAC process will change the 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:15.480 traditional I P O process fundamentally? Like, is this the 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:17.840 beginning of a sea change and how companies get to 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:22.040 the public markets. So I've been in the financial services 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:25.280 long enough to know that I've seen new products coming. 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:28.360 I've seen new products go, I've seen new opportunities. I 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:32.439 do think we are at a watershed moment in the 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:36.040 SPAC world, and the spacts are now here to stay. 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:40.040 The general acceptance of spects, both on the cell side 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:42.720 and the buy side for companies, companies being willing to 0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:46.840 sell themselves the spects and spects being more better buyers 0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:50.960 of assets. That has changed dramatically. The management teams and 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:54.320 the spacts have gotten better and better. It's not gonna 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:58.679 look in the future like it looks today. The SPAC 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:02.400 world will will it more mature, it will define itself. 0:19:02.480 --> 0:19:05.760 That will redefine itself. But I think the product, the 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:09.280 back product, is here to stay as a mechanism for 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:13.480 existing companies to merge into pre existing publicly listed blank 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:16.919 check companies. The challenges of the time are unprecedented, but 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:20.720 returns have also been phenomenal. If you were running a 0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:23.800 big bank today, would you be giving big bonuses this year? 0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:29.440 Bonuses in line with the enormity of the returns. So 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:33.800 I think that. Remember, banks are very competitive beasts and beings, 0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:38.440 and banks not only compete with other banks, they compete 0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:41.840 with asset managers, they compete with private equity firms, they 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:46.240 compete with hedge funds. And remember the bank's asset base 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:50.080 is its human capital. So bank is only as good 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:53.480 as the people that they can attract and they can retain. 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:58.480 So banks therefore need to pay competitively in line with 0:19:58.600 --> 0:20:01.919 what their competitors are paying paying. And their competitive universe 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:04.840 is fairly wide. It includes all of the other different 0:20:04.840 --> 0:20:09.280 financial intermediaries as well. As you point out technology companies. 0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:13.639 A lot of these financial institutions today, a big majority 0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:16.679 of what they're doing is tech and tech related. So 0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:19.240 when they're going out to hire the best people today, 0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:22.199 they're competing with the technology firms, so they have to 0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:25.200 be competitive. So banks are gonna look at what makes 0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:27.920 them competitive to attract and retain the best people in 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:30.800 the world, and they'll pay commensurate with that. What would 0:20:30.840 --> 0:20:34.360 you do? I would make sure I'm competitive. I would 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:37.800 make sure that I'm competitive with all of my natural 0:20:37.880 --> 0:20:41.200 competitors and my new found competitors, which is the technology world. 0:20:41.560 --> 0:20:43.920 And I would make sure that I'm attracting the best people, 0:20:43.920 --> 0:20:46.159 and I'm retaining the best people because the cost of 0:20:46.240 --> 0:20:49.760 losing great people is really high. Not only do lose 0:20:49.800 --> 0:20:52.800 great people in their production, but then you lose the 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:55.119 momentum of the organization. You have to spend money to 0:20:55.160 --> 0:20:57.199 go out and hire a new person, and then you 0:20:57.240 --> 0:20:59.760 have downtime while you train the new person. So it's 0:20:59.840 --> 0:21:03.199 very important for financial institutions and other institutions, not a 0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:06.720 financial services entery. It's important for technology companies to stay 0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:09.880 competitive and make sure that they can they can retain 0:21:09.960 --> 0:21:13.840 their best peak. Now you've worked a long time in banking, 0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:16.760 you spent some time in the administration, You've spent some 0:21:16.840 --> 0:21:20.359 time exploring since then, would you be open to public 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:24.760 service again. I thought my time in the government was 0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:28.439 literally the most amazing couple of years of my life, 0:21:28.960 --> 0:21:31.560 and the ability for me to give back to the 0:21:31.600 --> 0:21:35.600 country was extraordinary. I was very happy doing it. If 0:21:35.600 --> 0:21:38.680 a if a great opportunity comes along again, of course 0:21:38.720 --> 0:21:43.200 I'll consider it. I'm curious how you reflect on where 0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:46.960 the Trump administration is leaving this country right now and 0:21:47.000 --> 0:21:52.159 how you separate your time from that. You know, it 0:21:52.240 --> 0:21:54.760 sounds like it was worth it to you. But do 0:21:54.800 --> 0:21:57.960 you feel that President Trump is leaving the United States 0:21:58.000 --> 0:22:00.919 in a good place? Look, I think it's worth it 0:22:01.000 --> 0:22:05.240 from any individual who gets the opportunity to serve their 0:22:05.240 --> 0:22:07.399 country and give back to the country. I feel like 0:22:07.440 --> 0:22:09.920 we all owe it to the country if we're in 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:15.200 a position where we can leave our normal life, get 0:22:15.200 --> 0:22:18.160 out of our our our normal job, and get back 0:22:18.200 --> 0:22:19.720 to the country. And I think that's important, and I 0:22:19.800 --> 0:22:22.560 think more and more people need to do that, and 0:22:22.760 --> 0:22:25.600 it's important for the country. I think the president, you know, 0:22:25.680 --> 0:22:28.760 is leaving the country in an interesting place. You know, 0:22:28.920 --> 0:22:31.840 if it weren't for COVID, and and that's a big 0:22:31.880 --> 0:22:34.560 if it weren't for and I understand it, but weren't 0:22:34.600 --> 0:22:37.920 for COVID, you know. I always remind myself where we 0:22:37.920 --> 0:22:40.800 were in February and March of this year, where we 0:22:40.800 --> 0:22:45.520 were from an economic standpoint, where we were going economically, 0:22:45.640 --> 0:22:47.960 where we were going wage growth, where we were going 0:22:48.200 --> 0:22:51.880 with minority and underprivileged wage growth, wage growth, how many 0:22:51.920 --> 0:22:55.760 people we were bringing back into the into the workforce, 0:22:56.240 --> 0:22:59.919 What the GDP was doing, what the economy was doing. Uh, 0:23:00.200 --> 0:23:04.320 how we how we got through smart deregulation. I'm not 0:23:04.359 --> 0:23:09.000 an antiregulation person. I'm a smart regulation How we deregulated 0:23:09.119 --> 0:23:12.359 some of the medium and smaller banks in the United 0:23:12.400 --> 0:23:15.840 States to make them more competitive so they could lend 0:23:15.920 --> 0:23:19.200 more money into the economy and stop spending that money 0:23:19.240 --> 0:23:22.480 on regulation that didn't make them safer and didn't make 0:23:22.520 --> 0:23:25.639 them sounder. When I think of the things that were achieved, 0:23:26.240 --> 0:23:30.000 it is a pretty good track record. Um, Look, COVID 0:23:30.040 --> 0:23:33.639 has been devastating. COVID has been devastating to every individual 0:23:33.680 --> 0:23:36.080 in this country. I don't care who you are, COVID 0:23:36.080 --> 0:23:38.160 has had a dramatic effect on you, and it will 0:23:38.200 --> 0:23:40.600 have a dramatic effect on the legacy of any president 0:23:40.640 --> 0:23:42.680 who would have been in office during this time. So 0:23:42.960 --> 0:23:45.480 where are we going to see you? Digging? Like? What? What? 0:23:45.480 --> 0:23:50.320 What are we going to see Gary Kny next? I 0:23:50.440 --> 0:23:54.720 still think there's enormous opportunities in the technology world. I'm 0:23:54.800 --> 0:23:57.159 one of those that does agree that we're still in 0:23:57.520 --> 0:24:03.080 very very early innings of what's going on in technology 0:24:03.240 --> 0:24:07.919 and what's going on in the world and how technology 0:24:08.119 --> 0:24:12.440 and the cloud is going to affect our lives. So 0:24:12.640 --> 0:24:15.879 as I keep looking at opportunities, and I keep looking 0:24:15.880 --> 0:24:19.200 at companies, and I look at places where I'm spending 0:24:19.280 --> 0:24:24.200 more and more of my time. They all revolve around technology, 0:24:24.520 --> 0:24:28.000 cloud and how our lives are going to change because 0:24:28.280 --> 0:24:33.440 of further, I would say revolution or evolution of technology. 0:24:33.840 --> 0:24:37.159 All Right, Garry Come, former Director of the National Economic Council, 0:24:37.160 --> 0:24:39.080 Thank you so much for joining us today on Studio 0:24:39.200 --> 0:24:40.840 one Point. Oh, it has been great to have you. 0:24:44.680 --> 0:24:46.919 Bloom Book Studio one Point was produced and edited by 0:24:46.960 --> 0:24:50.680 Kevin Hines. Our executive producer is Alison Weiss. Our managing 0:24:50.760 --> 0:24:54.639 editor is Daniel Culbertson, with production assistance from Mallory Abelhausen 0:24:54.800 --> 0:24:58.400