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Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of the Strictly Business podcast, where

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Speaker 1: we talk with some of the brightest minds working in

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Speaker 1: media today. I'm Andrew Wallenstein with Variety by Day. My

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Speaker 1: next guest is known as a respected veteran in Hollywood

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Speaker 1: legal circles, representing a list clients like Matthew McConaughey and

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Speaker 1: the creators of South Park. But Kevin Morris has also

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Speaker 1: carved out a nice side gig of sorts in recent

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Speaker 1: years as a critically acclaimed writer of fiction Wouldn't You

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Speaker 1: Know It? His new novel Gettysburg offers a satirical take

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Speaker 1: on a world he knows all too well Hollywood. Thanks

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Speaker 1: for coming in, Kevin, looking forward to talking to you,

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Speaker 1: not just about the book, which is out now from

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Speaker 1: Grove Atlantic, but how you see some of the bigger

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Speaker 1: trends playing out in the real life entertainment business. But

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Speaker 1: as for this book, Gettysburg, I mean it chronicles the

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Speaker 1: life of a show biz lawyer who is life takes

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Speaker 1: an interesting turn when he attends a Civil War reenactment,

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Speaker 1: and it's a turns comedic and it turns poignant. But

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Speaker 1: it is about a show biz lawyer and you are

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Speaker 1: that so the obvious first question is how much of

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Speaker 1: this is you? How much is it based on you?

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Speaker 1: Thanks Andrew, Yeah, I get that question a lot and

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Speaker 1: first question a lot. Um. The answer is the answer

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Speaker 1: is he's not me. He's not me. You know, they say,

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Speaker 1: I love the old adage, right what you know? And

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Speaker 1: you know? So of course, Um, there's aspects of one's personality.

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Speaker 1: I think any writer's work that's that's that's based on themselves.

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Speaker 1: But you also have all these other, you know, tools

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Speaker 1: that you use and their memory, observation. You know. You

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Speaker 1: you to be a writer, and to accomplish a novel,

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Speaker 1: you have to you have to try try and use

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Speaker 1: everything you have, you know, and so it's not as

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Speaker 1: simple as as your own story or being uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: your own characters. It's a prestiche. It's a prestige and

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Speaker 1: that's what these uh characters in in my book are. Um. Nevertheless,

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Speaker 1: when you tell uh, Matthew McConaughey that you're working on

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Speaker 1: a novel, do you gotta do you have an obligation

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Speaker 1: to keep your clients from being nervous or yeah, that

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Speaker 1: doesn't That hasn't been a problem. My clients have all

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Speaker 1: been We've been together for a very long time, and

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Speaker 1: they know me, and I actually think, uh, none of

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Speaker 1: my clients have been surprised that I did this, knowing me,

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Speaker 1: and everybody's been enormously resourceful, and you know, and so

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Speaker 1: far they enjoyed the books. I mean that said, there

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Speaker 1: are characters in the book where you read it and

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Speaker 1: you're like, Okay, I think there's a real world analog here.

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Speaker 1: Uh there's a character that, for instance, I thought looked

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Speaker 1: and sounded a lot like Norman Lear. Uh was that intentional?

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Speaker 1: Were you going for that kind of you know, ripped

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Speaker 1: from the headline satire? Well, I've made the judgment that

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Speaker 1: any this book would need an anchor character that is

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Speaker 1: sort of the keeper of the book, you know. Uh,

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Speaker 1: a person that has been interned, enormously successful as a storyteller,

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Speaker 1: kind of has seen it all. Everybody comes to him

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Speaker 1: for advice, um, and and you know, just just has

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Speaker 1: a great depth of knowledge and perspective on on Hollywood

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Speaker 1: and America really and look, if there's no better person

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Speaker 1: to fit that bill in Norman. You know, Uh, there's

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Speaker 1: nobody like Norman Lear. And it's a tip of the

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Speaker 1: cap to Norman. I guess, but no, it's a but

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Speaker 1: like all the other things, it's a he's a prestiche.

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Speaker 1: And um, you know, you're novels are very technical and

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Speaker 1: you you you you need characters to play certain roles,

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Speaker 1: and you need umm arcs, and you need complexity, and

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Speaker 1: you need many different things, and uh, frankly, you just

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Speaker 1: can't get that from a nonfiction approach or or some

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Speaker 1: thing as heavily based on your you know, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if I wanted to write a memoir. Uh, i'd

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Speaker 1: write a memoir, you know. Um, uh, that's that's not this.

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Speaker 1: I decided to take on the challenge of fiction, um

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Speaker 1: more because of the frankly, because of the flexibility you

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Speaker 1: get when you make stuff up. Sure, now there's still

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Speaker 1: a heavy dose of industry satire here. I actually want

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Speaker 1: to read just a few sentences from the book that

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Speaker 1: I think really capture the flavor of it. And this

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Speaker 1: is this is you're describing this main character who is

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Speaker 1: not your alter ego. But I just want to read

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Speaker 1: a little bit from this and where you're talking basically

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Speaker 1: about Hollywood, and I quote, it was not just the

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Speaker 1: horror of the bitchiness and the shallowness and the culture

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Speaker 1: of lying. Not just the baseless relationships and the shallow

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Speaker 1: lives lived in pure, heedless, ambitious greed. Not just the

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Speaker 1: disgusting sucking up the thirty eight year old studio heads,

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Speaker 1: but the relentless drive to star fuck every minute of

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Speaker 1: every day. Consider each incident of star interaction a notch

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Speaker 1: on one scoreboard, keeping price records of the time you

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Speaker 1: were close to Clooney at a dinner party, when you

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Speaker 1: partied with Jen at the Mirrormax after party at the

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Speaker 1: Hotel Decap, when you got drunk with Johnny and Leo

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Speaker 1: at secret poker games. So what what shall I divine

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Speaker 1: from that about your attitude towards this business you call home. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, I listen, I've always been fascinated with there's

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Speaker 1: a kind of character out there in Hollywood who, you know,

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Speaker 1: HiT's midlife and they've maybe been an agent and then

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Speaker 1: decided to be a producer because that's where it was at,

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Speaker 1: and then come back and be a manager, maybe stop

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Speaker 1: as a studio executive, but you end up with with

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Speaker 1: you know, there's just this kind of person out there

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Speaker 1: that is kind of road tired and and you know,

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Speaker 1: and kind of unfulfilled. Usually in my experience, it usually

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Speaker 1: has to do with some kind of creative unfulfillment. But

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Speaker 1: that you know, I write, you know, like many writers,

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Speaker 1: I write about alienation. Alienation. I'm I'm incredibly you know,

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Speaker 1: interested in that, that that major you know topic. But

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Speaker 1: um and Reynolds is just alienated, you know. And Reynolds

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Speaker 1: is actually a nice guys, much probably a nicer guy

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Speaker 1: than me. Um, But but you know, part of his

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Speaker 1: complexity is he has this unfulfilled nature and he has

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Speaker 1: stuff bubbling inside, you know. So, so characters need to

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Speaker 1: have depth in different and different sort of parts of

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Speaker 1: their of their persona. And here this is just an illustration.

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Speaker 1: And I have fun with writing this. There's an illustration

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Speaker 1: of Reynold's inner life and what's driving his his sadness,

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Speaker 1: with driving his frustration with's driving uh, you know, this

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Speaker 1: thing that he can't put his thumb on. So, you know,

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Speaker 1: Hollywood has been very good to me. I don't, I don't,

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Speaker 1: I don't share that stuff, but but it's it's fun

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Speaker 1: to write it. Yeah, And what I'm also curious about

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Speaker 1: is for you as a writer, this is your third

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Speaker 1: published piece of wark. You did a story collection White

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Speaker 1: Man's Problems another novel that was set in like nine

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Speaker 1: seventies Philadelphia. And I was curious, why this now, because

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Speaker 1: you could have argued this would have been the first

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Speaker 1: place you would have written talking about Hollywood. Sure, And

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Speaker 1: I was, I was, listen, my, my, I'm ambitious about this.

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Speaker 1: My I'm I've Literature has filled my life since I

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Speaker 1: was a young kid, and um, and I take it

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Speaker 1: as a great you know, privileged to be able to

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Speaker 1: write fiction and and um. At first I didn't want

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Speaker 1: to touch Hollywood because uh um, it was too close

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Speaker 1: or it would be perhaps pigeonholed into some other My

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Speaker 1: first book was a book short stories about nine guys

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Speaker 1: and all nine different kinds of places, of all ages,

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Speaker 1: some first person, some third person. Um. My first novel

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Speaker 1: was you know, if anything, my first novel borrowed more.

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Speaker 1: I borrowed more from my personal life than in this novel. Um.

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Speaker 1: But they all require they all require different aspects. But

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Speaker 1: I think I think writing the first one, the first

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Speaker 1: to finally sort of freed me up maybe to come

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Speaker 1: to the topic of Hollywood. My my publisher, editor Morgan

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Speaker 1: Entrikin from grosve Atlantic, who's a legend and and you know,

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Speaker 1: a wonderful guy and a wonderful uh uh champion of literature.

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Speaker 1: He Morgan actually pushed me to do this. Um, I

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Speaker 1: had this idea and Morgan really pushed me to do it,

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Speaker 1: and I didn't want it, and like so appreciate that

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Speaker 1: he uh that he that he did that because he

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Speaker 1: ended up having I was able to take on a

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Speaker 1: lighter tone. I was able to type take on my

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Speaker 1: ambition to write the funnier stuff. Um. And you know this,

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Speaker 1: this topic, this landscape lent towards that approach way more

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Speaker 1: and others to my my first novels is kind of

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Speaker 1: dark maybe, but also just very two fisted. Um and

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Speaker 1: this one, you know, the right, the right after being

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Speaker 1: in Hollywood for five years, the thirty years, you know,

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Speaker 1: absurdity is not at all like an unlikely place to

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Speaker 1: come out. And so the more I do this, the

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Speaker 1: more I'm interested in the absurdity of it. So this

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Speaker 1: this setting, this kind of wacky, wacky tail, wacky road trip,

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Speaker 1: uh you know, lots of funny characters. Um, it just

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Speaker 1: lent much more to to this kind of uh fun

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Speaker 1: tone that that I that I tried to adopt. And

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Speaker 1: I suspect that my next book will be will be

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Speaker 1: different still, you know, will be different still. I'm very

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Speaker 1: interested in writing eclectic characters and different kinds of stories.

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Speaker 1: I want you to put your lawyer hat back on

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Speaker 1: and be an observer here as you're looking at the

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Speaker 1: state of this business right now, are you know? On

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Speaker 1: the one hand, you've got the invasion of the streaming

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Speaker 1: services coming into play. You've got you know, the battle

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Speaker 1: of the writer's guild and agents. Uh. In all the

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Speaker 1: years you've been working in the business, has it been

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Speaker 1: more chaotic than this. I'm just curious where it ranks. Man,

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Speaker 1: I don't think so. It's incredibly chaotic and it but

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Speaker 1: but I think if I could get one thing across,

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Speaker 1: it's that it's incredibly good. You know. It's just in

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Speaker 1: such an exciting time, uh, to to be an entertainment Uh.

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Speaker 1: There's so many opportunities, so many different things going on. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know, the ability of digital technology or technology to

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Speaker 1: deliver all kinds of stories and all kinds of ways

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Speaker 1: at all at all the time is fantastic and it's

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Speaker 1: great stuff for artists and in film, entertainment and music

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Speaker 1: and whatever. Um. Uh, So I think now you know,

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Speaker 1: the advent of a lot of these things, streaming and

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Speaker 1: and so forth has has thrown the business models uh

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Speaker 1: in to into upheaval. And you know a lot of

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Speaker 1: ways the business is still seeking the right business models

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Speaker 1: and um, and that adds the chaos as well. So

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Speaker 1: it's it's one of the things of the book. It's

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Speaker 1: it's confusion. And like one of the things I just

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Speaker 1: think about and writing the book is how everything is

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Speaker 1: true at the same time. And that just adds to

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Speaker 1: the comedy and the absurdity of this of the situation.

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Speaker 1: But it's good, it's generally good. You know what's going

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Speaker 1: on the I mean, if I get right into it,

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Speaker 1: the this you know, the the amount of money spent

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Speaker 1: on original content on original programming has probably because of

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Speaker 1: the streamers, has probably uh and and and different interests

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Speaker 1: that the studios and networks have in in in expanding

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Speaker 1: into cable programming. UM. You know, the spend what entered,

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Speaker 1: the spend of of the spend on original content industry wide,

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Speaker 1: it's probably three times as much as it was five

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Speaker 1: years ago. Um. It's it's it's phenomenal and uh you

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Speaker 1: know these and I only think it's going to get

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Speaker 1: uh better from the perspective of the artists, who which

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Speaker 1: I am and who I who I represent? Um, But

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Speaker 1: the deal making, I assume gets a lot more complex.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you actually have done some pretty pioneering work

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Speaker 1: for Matt Stone and Trey Parker who created South Park,

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Speaker 1: and you know what they were able to hold onto

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Speaker 1: in terms of digital rights. UM. I would imagine though,

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Speaker 1: that this complexity is just beginning to work itself out absolutely,

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Speaker 1: And and there's uh, you know, and it's adversarial there.

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Speaker 1: There's you know, the studios are and streamers and anybody

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Speaker 1: producing content or you know, I hate saying content. Actually

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Speaker 1: my Matt Stone has a great uh line where he says, uh,

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Speaker 1: people asked him about content and so forth, and he said,

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Speaker 1: we don't make content, we make television, you know. And

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Speaker 1: so I always stopped myself when I'm using the word content.

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Speaker 1: But uh, everybody's you know, it's business. It's tough. Everybody

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Speaker 1: is seeking to improve their their standpoints. So you know,

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Speaker 1: as an entertainment lawyer, you're always kind of fighting goliath. Um,

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Speaker 1: the you know, the studios and the production and he's

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Speaker 1: always have more power and more cloud. At the end

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Speaker 1: of the day, than um the individual artists, and so

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Speaker 1: I just I've always looked at my job like a

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Speaker 1: crusade to um not just do the best individual deals,

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Speaker 1: but to look for um additional ways to control and

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Speaker 1: profit from our work. You know. But is that dynamic

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Speaker 1: that you just describe more lopsided than ever in a

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Speaker 1: world where these giant tech companies become the new buyers

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Speaker 1: of content, Well, you know, it seems is that it

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Speaker 1: seems that way, and there still are an enormous you know,

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Speaker 1: multitudes of people and artists that want to be in

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Speaker 1: film entertainment, and therefore the leverage is down among the masses.

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Speaker 1: But given the competition that's been created by the expansion

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Speaker 1: expansion of streaming and and and so forth. Um, you still,

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Speaker 1: I always believe that the revolution has to come from

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Speaker 1: the top, meaning that at the top we have an

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Speaker 1: enormous amount of leverage because there's so much competition, you know,

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Speaker 1: as I, as I said, to spend on original programming

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Speaker 1: is probably three times as much was five years ago.

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Speaker 1: But also you have probably sixteen new streaming services coming

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Speaker 1: out in the next eighteen months. All the media companies

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Speaker 1: are are improving their you know, their offerings Disney. Is

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Speaker 1: this thing that Disney is going to come out with

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Speaker 1: will immediately be a level of level uh competitor with Netflix,

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Speaker 1: you know. And all that's going to do is for

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Speaker 1: competition and the need for high level you know star

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Speaker 1: uh programming is only going to go up. It's they

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Speaker 1: need to have hits to to succeed that. You know

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Speaker 1: that That's always kind of been the case in this

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Speaker 1: in this area, with such massive competition going on, it's

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Speaker 1: gotta it's just it's just gravity. It's gotta it's got

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Speaker 1: to improve our stuff. I just think that, uh, there's

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Speaker 1: a responsibility of of the of the artists at the

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Speaker 1: top to go as hard as they can and and

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Speaker 1: as innovatively as they can. But you know, if the

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Speaker 1: Netflix is or Amazons of the world come to your

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Speaker 1: door and they want to make the next you know,

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Speaker 1: Matt Stone Trey Parker program, for instance, isn't it a

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Speaker 1: very different kind of deal that they're looking to strike

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Speaker 1: Your back end gets capped. Um, So, how do you

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Speaker 1: tell your artists that you can protect them best as

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Speaker 1: possible when in fact the upside is limited. Well, I

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Speaker 1: mean it's a good question, but the the our job

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Speaker 1: is to you know, a job is to not allow

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Speaker 1: the upside to be limited. And as I say, it's

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Speaker 1: got to come to the top down because at the

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Speaker 1: bottom you don't have the leverage to do those kind

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Speaker 1: of things. But at the top, you know, you do

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Speaker 1: more more often than not. And uh, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: a it's a singularity of purpose though and not uh,

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Speaker 1: not expediency. Um. I've always I think I've done well

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Speaker 1: with artists because I've never been because I'm one myself,

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Speaker 1: and I've never put the closing the deal ahead of

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Speaker 1: a macro perspective on what we wanted to and and

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Speaker 1: you know, I obviously Asians and lawyers make more money

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Speaker 1: the more deals that close. But I've taken a counterintuitive

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Speaker 1: approach to that. And if something's not right, they just say, like,

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Speaker 1: let's not do it, you know. Um. And with respect

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Speaker 1: to the complexity, what I would say is that every

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Speaker 1: deal is very different, and you've got to you have

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Speaker 1: to have really good knowledge of the business models of

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Speaker 1: all the players that you're dealing with. Sometimes, you know,

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Speaker 1: sometimes the client is hungrier for something than than than

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Speaker 1: something else, you know. Matthew McConaughey, Matthew has made the

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Speaker 1: biggest deals. Ever, he's also you know, he's also done

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Speaker 1: Dallas Buyers Club for very little money, you know, and

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Speaker 1: the different motivations at different times, Matthew has really become

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Speaker 1: much more uh well, he's he's a great, great guy,

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Speaker 1: great actor. Um and he's also finding opportunities away from

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Speaker 1: szay TV or film. I mean, you know, Lincoln ads

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Speaker 1: and that kind of thing. It just seems to me

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Speaker 1: that there are more ways than ever for talent to

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Speaker 1: make money, which is probably good for you absolutely, And

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Speaker 1: you know, we've had an act of strategy to to

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Speaker 1: you know, continue to make the nut, you know, to

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Speaker 1: continue to make a certain level of money each year.

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Speaker 1: And as we all know, movie star money and gross

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Speaker 1: points have have gone down drastically, so you know, I

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Speaker 1: think what what most smart artists actors have done is

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Speaker 1: pursued the endorsements and and you know, sort of make

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Speaker 1: up for the loss of the big pay days, uh

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Speaker 1: with with with endorsement money and and and other appearance money.

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Speaker 1: And that's just very you know, actors used to not

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Speaker 1: do that. There used to be a stigma attached when

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Speaker 1: when I started, there was a stigma attached to doing

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Speaker 1: any kind of promotional work. And happily. You know, for

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Speaker 1: for forever, I've wanted that to go away, and for

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Speaker 1: us not to look at it that way and instead

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Speaker 1: look at it as as as money and and and

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Speaker 1: look at Matthew's work on Lincoln. You can also have

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Speaker 1: an incredible creative input on things. You know, if you

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Speaker 1: look at this Lincoln commercials, there, that's Matthew um bringing

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Speaker 1: it and really creating something completely new and uh and

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Speaker 1: artful and and and just really you know, that's that's

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Speaker 1: the stuff to do. That's the stuff to do to

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Speaker 1: to not to run away from stigmas and and try

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Speaker 1: to put an artistic spin on things. Sure, Um I

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Speaker 1: mentioned the Agent Writers War. What has it been like

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Speaker 1: lawyering in this weird time in this town in light

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Speaker 1: of that war? It's hard, you know, it's hard. I

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Speaker 1: start from the perspective of you know, it's hard. It's

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Speaker 1: it's very confusing, and it's confusing to the the clients,

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Speaker 1: the artists. It's it's confusing to the to everybody, confusing

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Speaker 1: to the public. For sure. UM I think that, Well,

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Speaker 1: what I would say is, you know, I'm a writer,

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Speaker 1: I represent writers. I come from the writer's perspective. Um

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Speaker 1: and you know who side am I on. I'm on

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Speaker 1: the writer's side. But uh, there there are things that

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Speaker 1: I think it's very complex, the issue, the issue of

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Speaker 1: packaging is very complex. But on the other hand, there's

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Speaker 1: some very simple things that I think I just hope

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Speaker 1: are are are not being lost. You know, I've probably

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Speaker 1: done with respect and packaging. For example, I've probably done

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Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty writing deals that involved packages. And

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Speaker 1: you know, there's a fundamental bargain that's been made for

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Speaker 1: a very long time, which is that you know, a

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Speaker 1: writer gives up uh sorry, a writer pays no commission

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Speaker 1: up front, and the trade off is that the agents

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Speaker 1: get a position in great success. Now, a hundred fifty

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Speaker 1: times I've done these deals, a hundred and fifty times.

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Speaker 1: It's always for the clients to decide, but a hundred

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Speaker 1: fifty times I've recommended taking no commission, letting them package it,

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Speaker 1: because you know, it's trading. You know it's trading. Not

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Speaker 1: giving up ten percent of your salary, of your paycheck,

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Speaker 1: you know, of your working day, you know stuff tempercent.

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Speaker 1: It's a lot of money, and and not allowing it

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Speaker 1: to happen or being against the package is simply as

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Speaker 1: a trade off to you know, where on the other end,

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Speaker 1: you you hope that you get some bigger chunk of

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Speaker 1: a big pie on the back end. And it's just

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Speaker 1: the reality. Is it just something happened that you know,

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Speaker 1: I know less than there's probably been five shows out

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Speaker 1: of that hundred fifty that paid significant profits, you know,

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Speaker 1: And you know, there's all kinds of different levels that

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Speaker 1: the agents get paid at and it's not as monolithic

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Speaker 1: as people think. And I you know, it's simple to me,

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Speaker 1: it's like, why not pay no commission and and and

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Speaker 1: you know, and deal with that, deal with the other

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Speaker 1: stuff later. So you know, that's that's a frustration of mine.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if that's getting out there enough. Um,

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Speaker 1: do you have a sense of how this is going

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Speaker 1: to play out? No? But man, I hope I hope that, uh,

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Speaker 1: I hope cooler heads can prevail, because, like we were

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Speaker 1: talking about, we're in this you know, platinum age of

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Speaker 1: original content, of spend and desire and and and and

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Speaker 1: it's appetite in the public. You know, the public the

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Speaker 1: public is uh watches you probably know better than about

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Speaker 1: what's the public watch. The number of hours that people

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Speaker 1: consume and television, and every day is just still just

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Speaker 1: grown up up and up and up. And so we're

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Speaker 1: in a great spot. We're gonna we're in a great

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Speaker 1: spot in terms of those of us who make these widgets.

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Speaker 1: And uh boy, it's stupid to throw any kind of

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Speaker 1: sand in those wheels in my opinion. In my opinion,

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Speaker 1: we're doing great. And the only thing is sort of

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Speaker 1: like the only thing that could destroy us is us,

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Speaker 1: you know, and and and uh, you know, so I

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Speaker 1: just hope, you know, like everyone, but I just really

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Speaker 1: hope cooler heads prevail and we really get solution oriented here.

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Speaker 1: I referenced the South Park guys earlier and sort of

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Speaker 1: the deal making that went on it was pioneering. And

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Speaker 1: I was curious if you could explain, because it's they're

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Speaker 1: set up is not just typical like two guys in

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Speaker 1: a production company. How did you structure what they've got,

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Speaker 1: uh to sort of maximize their earnings and control? Well,

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Speaker 1: obviously the guys are brilliant um and always have been,

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Speaker 1: and and just really great guys. Um Um. That said

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Speaker 1: a lot about it. Everybody says that about everybody, but

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Speaker 1: with these guys, it's really true. And I've I've lived it.

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Speaker 1: But they they're also very shrewd businessmen. UM. And so

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Speaker 1: since the beginning, we've always looked for innovative and um

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Speaker 1: and sort of innovative and smart ways to uh to

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Speaker 1: sell their stuff and to make money um as as

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Speaker 1: we were not allergic to money. UM and and uh.

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Speaker 1: Then the other the thing to add to that is

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Speaker 1: that South Park. We knew very early on that South

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Speaker 1: Park would work anywhere you put it. In other words,

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Speaker 1: you know, very south Park was one of the first

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Speaker 1: television shows. As hard as this is to believe, um,

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Speaker 1: South Park was one of the very first television shows

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Speaker 1: to be sold on video set. Um that the common

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Speaker 1: wisdom in the in the industry used to be, not

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Speaker 1: that long ago, used to be that selling television shows

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Speaker 1: ancillary in any way, UH was cannibalizing. It's just not true.

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Speaker 1: The beauty of the show business, the beauty of film

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Speaker 1: and television, is that they're really not self cannibalizing businesses. Um,

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Speaker 1: which is a real it's a great thing. And UM

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Speaker 1: I've always just embraced that that attitude, and so of

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Speaker 1: the guys with respect to their you know, so they've

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Speaker 1: evolved and they created these huge ships. Is a huge

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Speaker 1: library of of South Park, which we control with our

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Speaker 1: partners are Comedy Central, who have who have been fantastic,

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Speaker 1: and and then the Book of Mormon is its own

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Speaker 1: gigantic or monolithic thing. So UM, what we what we've

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Speaker 1: done with that is is we've we've combined all of

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Speaker 1: our assets and treated it U in a way that's

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Speaker 1: more like uh Facebook, for example, than just uh an

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Speaker 1: entertainment having a service company and then sort of starting

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Speaker 1: again at zero the next year. Well in other words,

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Speaker 1: in other words, UH, listen that the history of entertainment

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Speaker 1: in the last thirty years has a lot to do

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Speaker 1: with how um intangible assets have been valued. You know,

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Speaker 1: thirty five years ago, UH back ends on television shows.

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Speaker 1: You know, we're just if you got anything about if

427
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,400
Speaker 1: you tried to value them in any way to get

428
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 1: current income, Uh, they were discounted heavily. People had to

429
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,639
Speaker 1: sell their back ends to get for divorces and stuff

430
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 1: like that, and they maybe get forty or six on

431
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,439
Speaker 1: the dollar. Um, you know, like Shylock loans and and

432
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 1: but what then the banking community everybody got more and

433
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 1: more and the studios themselves got more and more comfortable

434
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 1: with raising the levels of value that they all attributed

435
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:16,239
Speaker 1: to that bankload and started coming into UM things like that.

436
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 1: And if it's gone even further though, which you know,

437
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:21,880
Speaker 1: I help people appreciate and I think sometimes we don't

438
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 1: even though it's so much out there, which is we've

439
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,399
Speaker 1: evolved for a place today where multiples will be paid.

440
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 1: Like in any other business, a car company makes a

441
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 1: million dollars a year, their car companies worth twelve million dollars, right,

442
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,639
Speaker 1: and and that's now happened with these intangible assets and

443
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 1: and copyrights and so forth. So UM to take advantage

444
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:44,879
Speaker 1: of that and the way the Wall Street values it

445
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 1: in the way that you know, society at large values it.

446
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,960
Speaker 1: On a business level, UM, you need to you know,

447
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,680
Speaker 1: we've made the judgment that you need to per form

448
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 1: the right kind of entity around your business that can

449
00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:00,879
Speaker 1: take the most advantage of those opportunities and and drive

450
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 1: you know, drive your value. UH. Instead of getting two

451
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:09,919
Speaker 1: million dollars a year UH from your from from your

452
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 1: from your work, UH, incorporating that in a company where

453
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:18,879
Speaker 1: you get a ten to fifteen x multiple of of

454
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,919
Speaker 1: that two million dollars, so you kind of make make

455
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 1: two million dollars into UH um, if you do it right.

456
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:31,439
Speaker 1: And so for whatever reason, entertainers and uh people in

457
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: the movie business haven't haven't taken that taken that leap,

458
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,640
Speaker 1: and we've just we've just seen that as a big

459
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 1: opportunity for us. There's also a natural question here, which

460
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 1: is you're an artist, you're creating work in literary form.

461
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 1: You have the ability, uh, the understanding of how to

462
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:54,120
Speaker 1: make TV shows and movies. Any thought about taking your

463
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: literary work and adapting it for the screen is that

464
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 1: Is that a corruption of your creative or what? Yeah?

465
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 1: Maybe I don't know, maybe, but I took the attitude

466
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: very at the beginning, very early on. It was never

467
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 1: a thought of mine intitude television or screenplays or anything

468
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 1: like that. I've I've been around, you know, the problems

469
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 1: associated with putting big projects together. It demands collaboration and

470
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 1: demands consent. You know when the great frustration for artists

471
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 1: in the Hollywood is is that they need so much

472
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 1: else consent to do, to ply their craft, to do

473
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 1: what they do normally. And it's you know, it's incredibly frustrating,

474
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 1: and it's it's it's what you know gives rise to

475
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 1: a lot of this turmoil Um, you know, I don't

476
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: think I can write screenplays. I don't think I can

477
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: write teleplays. I always wanted to be a novelist. I

478
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 1: want to write novels. Um, you know, I don't want

479
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: to be just another entertainment guy that tried to start

480
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 1: writing scripts. That's not me. I'm very serious, um about literature.

481
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 1: It's incredibly important to me, and I want to you know,

482
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 1: I want to write novels. Do you have more in you?

483
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,400
Speaker 1: You know, perhaps what novel you'll do next. I hope

484
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 1: I have more in me. It's definitely my intention to

485
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:09,640
Speaker 1: just keep going. Um you know, Uh, John up think

486
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,119
Speaker 1: Uh said this thing when then it has to do

487
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,440
Speaker 1: with some of the other questions. John think Uh wrote

488
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 1: about whether or not people often asked him whether Rabbit

489
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,679
Speaker 1: Angstrom was him, was another version of him, and he

490
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 1: said emphatically no, and that Rabbit was just a slot

491
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,880
Speaker 1: that he could drop through to observe American life, and

492
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 1: that man, that's that's why I like. I see these

493
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: characters that slots to drop through to observe, to observe

494
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 1: and and and say something about American life, to tell

495
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 1: entertaining stories and so forth. And I I and I

496
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 1: I've been able to do it, and I think I

497
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 1: can do it more. And my my objective is just

498
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 1: to get better and better and better and better to

499
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 1: the point where perhaps you'll leave the legal profession behind.

500
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 1: It's just ever become a full time gig. Well, listen,

501
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do what I enjoy and uh right now,

502
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 1: I think and for the foreseeable future, I think I

503
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 1: can do uh. And I do other things. I produce

504
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 1: a little bit, I uh, you know, on another number

505
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 1: of charities and stuff. I do a lot of different things,

506
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: and I enjoy them all, um. And I enjoy being

507
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 1: a lawyer, and I in my firm that that I started,

508
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 1: um is very successful, and I enjoy uh managing that.

509
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: And I'll continue to do all of those things. You know,

510
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 1: what do I want to do when I'm sixty five

511
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 1: seventy five? I don't know, but well I do know this,

512
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 1: it will and Bob Wrighting, Well, we'll have to have

513
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 1: you back in when the next novel comes out. Thanks

514
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:43,719
Speaker 1: for coming in, Kevin, All right, thank you, Andrew. This

515
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 1: has been another episode of Strictly Business. Tune in next

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00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 1: week for another helping, ascintillating conversation with media movers and shakers,

517
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 1: and please make sure you subscribe to the podcast to

518
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 1: hear future episodes. Also leave a review in Apple Podcast

519
00:29:58,680 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 1: let us know how we're doing