WEBVTT - 10.25.24 with Nancy Grace: Delphi Murders Evidence, Allen’s Statement and Behavior

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the Crime Roundup Live from Delphi. I'm Cheryl

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<v Speaker 1>McCollum with the one and only Nancy Gray.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, Cheryl, I've been listening to a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>your crime roundups plus what's with you, tap Might and Delphi.

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<v Speaker 2>It sounds like you've been up to a four am

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<v Speaker 2>what's happening?

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<v Speaker 1>I was driving until about two am, sure enough. But

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<v Speaker 1>before we go any further, Happy birthday you.

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<v Speaker 2>I thought for sure i'd flame out before now. So

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<v Speaker 2>every day is gravy man, everything.

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<v Speaker 3>It is absolutely icing all the time.

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<v Speaker 2>Every time I'd walk through one of those projects without

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<v Speaker 2>a god, I'd say, well, this.

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<v Speaker 3>Is it, this is how it's gonna go. Yep, I

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<v Speaker 3>ain't thinking in this way.

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<v Speaker 1>We got some things that have been happen in the

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<v Speaker 1>last couple of days, and I've just got to get

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<v Speaker 1>your tay as a former prosecutor, about how you think

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<v Speaker 1>they're building this case. But the first thing I want

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<v Speaker 1>to ask you about is Richard Allen changing his height

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<v Speaker 1>on his fishing license.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, isn't that amazing? Because I really really hated that

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<v Speaker 2>you could not be with us last night when we

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<v Speaker 2>did in MSN Mayor Street Media's Crime Stories, because I

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to talk to you about not necessarily that very thing,

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<v Speaker 2>but something related changing and I'm circling back. I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>avoiding changing his appearance. And I compare it to, of course,

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<v Speaker 2>Scott Peterson. You know, I hate using the same examples,

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<v Speaker 2>but they're just so fertile, they're rich with comparisons. Scott

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<v Speaker 2>Peterson dying is hearing growing a goatee. And then you got,

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<v Speaker 2>as soon as the survivor was Dylan Mortenson where it

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<v Speaker 2>could have been Bethany said, the had bushy eyebrows and

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<v Speaker 2>x y Z. He immediately fixed that, Brian Kohberger. And

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<v Speaker 2>now he's getting a different kind of a metrosexual look.

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<v Speaker 2>The changing of the appearance, because if you look at

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<v Speaker 2>photos Richard Allen, for instance, the one where he's out

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<v Speaker 2>with his wife at a restaurant slash bar, and he's

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<v Speaker 2>sitting directly in front of a composite sketch of him. Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>he looks you know, you know, let me just say heavier.

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<v Speaker 2>He looks much more like the man on the bridge,

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<v Speaker 2>the bridge guy. And now he's just withering away. He's

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<v Speaker 2>intentionally doing this. He's got that well, had that horrible

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<v Speaker 2>goatee and it looks like cousin it has jumped on

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<v Speaker 2>his chin. But what I'm saying, and that's a personal choice,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, fine, go for it. But if anyone see

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<v Speaker 2>he's trying to change his appearance to differentiate himself as

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<v Speaker 2>much as possible from the bridge guy.

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<v Speaker 1>He knows he was seen on the bridge, So of

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<v Speaker 1>course that's what he's doing. And I'll tell you you,

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<v Speaker 1>more than anybody I have ever known, could take one

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<v Speaker 1>sentence out of fifty thousand pieces of evidence and make

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<v Speaker 1>it so prevalent that it would just slap the jury

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<v Speaker 1>in the face every day. And we found out that

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<v Speaker 1>when they went to his home and was talking to him.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's all over now, Amen, I could see that

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<v Speaker 1>big at Dallas on a poster board.

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<v Speaker 3>It doesn't matter, it's over. I mean, I've.

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<v Speaker 2>Had a cop come to our house. Let's see. The

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<v Speaker 2>twins were about three and we loved I believe I've

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<v Speaker 2>told you this before. We love to go I return

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<v Speaker 2>a little Methodist church. Don't ask me how this happened.

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<v Speaker 2>I never did this as a child, but apparently both

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<v Speaker 2>the twins loved it. They would look for bugs, they

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<v Speaker 2>were bug investigators, and we would catch bugs and look

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<v Speaker 2>for bugs and dig under rocks for bugs. And there

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<v Speaker 2>was this walkway over at the church that had rocks

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<v Speaker 2>on the edges and we would play for hours and

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<v Speaker 2>hours before I would have to go to work at CNM. Anyway,

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<v Speaker 2>a vehicle, a big monster truck, came flying through the

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<v Speaker 2>parking lot and came straight at the twins. We were

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<v Speaker 2>kind of on the corner on the very curve, the

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<v Speaker 2>most dangerous place to be, but there was never any

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<v Speaker 2>traffic there. I jumped from him and pushed the twins back,

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<v Speaker 2>and of course got the tag, and the monster truck

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<v Speaker 2>scrooched off, you know, burning rubber. Well, of course I

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<v Speaker 2>called the police, so you know, was a while later.

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<v Speaker 2>Two cops came to the door, and I can tell

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<v Speaker 2>you this. I said, well, come on in, can I

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<v Speaker 2>make you some coffee? Would you like a bottle of water?

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<v Speaker 2>Blah blah blah. I don't say, well, holme a wrist up,

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<v Speaker 2>go on and cut me. It's all over now.

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<v Speaker 3>I didn't do that, No, And I would love to.

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<v Speaker 2>Argue to Jerry's. When you see the GBI pulling up

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<v Speaker 2>behind you, you may tap your brakes for a moment,

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<v Speaker 2>but you don't take off at one five mph. Why

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<v Speaker 2>because you don't have a dead body in your trunk,

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<v Speaker 2>you don't have dope under your seat, you're not carrying

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<v Speaker 2>an illegal weapon, you don't have a warrant out for

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<v Speaker 2>your Sorry, we're end. So why did he say that,

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<v Speaker 2>you're so right, Cherl? That would be at the top.

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<v Speaker 2>It's all over now.

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<v Speaker 3>It's right exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>Can we just hit on the fact too, that when

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<v Speaker 1>he knew he had been seen, So that's why he said, Hey, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I was on the bridge.

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<v Speaker 3>I just want joll to know I was looking at

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<v Speaker 3>fish but.

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<v Speaker 2>Scott Peterson and Scott Peterson, yeah, I was golfing until

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<v Speaker 2>he found out the marina workers saw him. I'm trying

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<v Speaker 2>to back the boat in. Then he went, oh yeah, yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>is that the marina?

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<v Speaker 3>The same thing here?

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<v Speaker 2>And you know it's driving me crazy online all the

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<v Speaker 2>crazy conspiracy theories.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh my god.

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<v Speaker 2>Cover up. You know you can't have it both ways.

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<v Speaker 2>That you cannot argue the cops are stupid, which they're not,

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<v Speaker 2>and this is an elaborate cover up. Okay, you have

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<v Speaker 2>to pick which way you're gonna go. You can't have

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<v Speaker 2>forty five and an elaborate cover up that has somehow

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<v Speaker 2>managed to withstand all of this scrutiny because you know,

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<v Speaker 2>if there was a cover up, the defense would be

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<v Speaker 2>that would be their banner and they would be, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>rancing around the courtroom waving the flag cover up.

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<v Speaker 1>And if they're gonna set somebody up, it's not gonna

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<v Speaker 1>be with one unspent bullet. There's no way they would

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<v Speaker 1>have knowled that would have matched his phone. That's just

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<v Speaker 1>like when they said, oh, the cops planted blood at

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<v Speaker 1>OJ's you know, Nicole Brown's theme from OJ. They didn't

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<v Speaker 1>know OJ was hurt. They wouldn't have put his blood

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<v Speaker 1>anywhere they didn't know he was cut.

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<v Speaker 3>That ain't how people.

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<v Speaker 1>Get set up. People get set up. Oh there's a

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<v Speaker 1>bag of dope right down on your back seat.

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<v Speaker 2>I can see now, CHERYLD, Can I just explain something.

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<v Speaker 2>I've tried to come up with an easy way to

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<v Speaker 2>explain it. And when I get to Delphi, I hope

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<v Speaker 2>you join me on crime stories. But I can tell

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<v Speaker 2>you where Cheryl mccomb's going to be. She's going to

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<v Speaker 2>be at the meet in three because there is one

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<v Speaker 2>around the courthouse that's right right, there is one. Ours

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<v Speaker 2>was Megabar yes, do you remember Megabar? I do ernest

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<v Speaker 2>and I lived at Megabar yep, my investigator because they

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<v Speaker 2>had fresh turnips every day. Anyway, that said, that's where

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<v Speaker 2>I'll find Cheryl. I might as well, you know what,

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<v Speaker 2>I need to just go ahead and call production, tell

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<v Speaker 2>them we're moving to the meet and three because we

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<v Speaker 2>need Cheryl mccollumn. If she's not leaving until she gets

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<v Speaker 2>that form bread, that is not happening.

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<v Speaker 3>Listen, is going to be me and seventy five attorneys,

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<v Speaker 3>you know.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, And now for Cheryl and the meat and three

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<v Speaker 2>and moving production. This is what I want to talk

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<v Speaker 2>to you about. Just cycling a bullet through a gun,

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<v Speaker 2>not firing it dense the bullet cycling is just the

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<v Speaker 2>act of loading or unloading a round into the chamber.

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<v Speaker 2>But what it does. It can cycling a bullet through

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<v Speaker 2>a gun dense the bullet knows and that can be

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<v Speaker 2>matched back like a fingerprint to the gun. It's microscope

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<v Speaker 2>that you don't see it. The bullet still looks even

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<v Speaker 2>shiny to you to the naked eye, just as a

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<v Speaker 2>bullet that's been fired, unless has been you know, destroyed

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<v Speaker 2>in some way, looks like you have to look under

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<v Speaker 2>a microscope to see that in and those.

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<v Speaker 3>Tool markings correct.

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<v Speaker 2>So I'm anxious for that to come out. I need

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<v Speaker 2>you to explain it for me when I get back

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<v Speaker 2>to DELFI.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm waiting on that, and I'm telling you the

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<v Speaker 1>placement where it was found is also critical.

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<v Speaker 3>Between the two bodies.

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<v Speaker 1>That to me is extraordinarily telling because that thing, when

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<v Speaker 1>it's ejected, goes to the right and slightly back, so

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<v Speaker 1>if it's between the two of them, he was pointing

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<v Speaker 1>that gun.

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<v Speaker 3>At one of them, who I believe was Abby.

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<v Speaker 2>Why do you say, Abby, I'm curious. I don't disagree

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<v Speaker 2>or agree. I'm just curious.

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<v Speaker 1>Because if you're looking straight away, Abby's to the left,

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<v Speaker 1>Libby's to the right, and he's right handed right in

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<v Speaker 1>that bullets between them, so it would have ejected to

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<v Speaker 1>the right and slightly back, landing between the two of them.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, that makes perfect sense. Yesterday I was thinking

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<v Speaker 2>last night, I focused a lot on the fact that

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<v Speaker 2>Libby's injuries were so much worse than well, they're both

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<v Speaker 2>slash dead their throats, so it's hard. It's like parsing words,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, mincing, splitting hairs, but there was an absolute

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<v Speaker 2>disregard leaving. In addition to the murder, leaving Libby unclothed.

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<v Speaker 2>First slashes to her neck were worse. Just trying to

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<v Speaker 2>figure out if she had been his object of desire,

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<v Speaker 2>if she had been his target, maybe she could have

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<v Speaker 2>been as simple as she brought back, or she said

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<v Speaker 2>something back that made him angry. But just think about

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<v Speaker 2>all the times he watched these girls come in and

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<v Speaker 2>out of that pharmacy. Oh, this is what I'm waiting on.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm waiting on the confessions because I guarantee you this

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<v Speaker 2>guy revealed so much about the crime scene that was

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<v Speaker 2>never stated publicly. I had. He's a great lawyer, Philip Debate,

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<v Speaker 2>How can you argue, Philip Debate, what would be your

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<v Speaker 2>argument as to why Alan became mentally impaired and started confessing. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>you're gonna love this. He said, because the jail is

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<v Speaker 2>starving him by giving him processed food with attitudes in it.

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<v Speaker 2>That he has gone something again to the twinkie defense,

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<v Speaker 2>and he started confessing. Well, what I've learned is Cheryl

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<v Speaker 2>that the killer and Delphi his family. Once he started

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<v Speaker 2>confessing to them, his family began to turn against him,

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<v Speaker 2>although they're showing up in court, and he thought that

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<v Speaker 2>he would never be reunited with them in life and

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<v Speaker 2>decided the only way you can get back with his

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<v Speaker 2>family is in heaven. And to get to heaven he

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<v Speaker 2>had to confess. Uh huh.

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<v Speaker 1>But I want to ask one more thing, is is

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<v Speaker 1>your old role as a prosecutor? When the police were

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<v Speaker 1>talking to him before he knew there was a video,

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<v Speaker 1>he described what he was wearing that day and described

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<v Speaker 1>the blue jacket, jeans and a hat.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, again it's the Scott Peterson placing yourself there. I

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<v Speaker 2>mean he places himself at the scene of the crime,

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<v Speaker 2>at the time of the crime. One thing I think

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<v Speaker 2>is bothering the jury because I believe they asked a

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<v Speaker 2>question about it. The jewors are actually getting to ask questions.

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<v Speaker 2>They write them down, they give them to the judge,

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<v Speaker 2>will to the bill. If the bill gives it to

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<v Speaker 2>the judge. The lawyers meet, they turn on that static

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<v Speaker 2>sound game so the jury can't hear them. If one

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<v Speaker 2>or both have an objection, they lodge the objection. That

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<v Speaker 2>goes on to the record. The judg decides if she

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<v Speaker 2>is going to allow the question. Then she asked the questions.

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<v Speaker 2>I believe that they are are curious about the lapse

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<v Speaker 2>in the cell phone where the cell phone should no

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<v Speaker 2>activity for a period of hours. Now, to me, it's

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<v Speaker 2>pretty easy to understand because it's happened to me, where

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<v Speaker 2>all of a sudden I get a torrent of text

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<v Speaker 2>messages and they won day to back months and months

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<v Speaker 2>and months of ke how can this be because it

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<v Speaker 2>was obviously about something that was happening, like you know,

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<v Speaker 2>just pretend my mom's birthday or day be getting the

0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:35.480
<v Speaker 2>car fixed, something like that, and it was months later,

0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:39.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, why is this coming now? That has actually happened.

0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:44.000
<v Speaker 2>But more more often, I don't get texts for a

0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:46.600
<v Speaker 2>period of minutes or hours that all of a sudden

0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:49.280
<v Speaker 2>a string comes in and I don't know why that happens,

0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:51.920
<v Speaker 2>but I know that it does happen. So somebody better

0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:54.280
<v Speaker 2>get up there on the stand and explain that, because

0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:57.679
<v Speaker 2>the defense is exploiting that by saying, well, her phone

0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:00.120
<v Speaker 2>was turned off, or the bodies removed, or they were

0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:02.760
<v Speaker 2>taken somewhere else in return to this location, which doesn't

0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:05.880
<v Speaker 2>make any sense. Plus, the ground is saturated with blood

0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:07.760
<v Speaker 2>where they were found, which means and that's where they

0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:10.720
<v Speaker 2>were killed. But that could lead to some.

0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:12.800
<v Speaker 3>Sort of doubt, Nancy.

0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:18.360
<v Speaker 1>Everybody has had their phone get so hot the phone

0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:22.840
<v Speaker 1>cuts itself down. If you go snowskin, it's the same principle.

0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:25.480
<v Speaker 1>If it gets too cold, it's going to shut itself down.

0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:30.240
<v Speaker 1>She was cold, they were wet. That phone could have

0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:33.479
<v Speaker 1>literally powered down because of temperature.

0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:37.480
<v Speaker 2>Yes, it could have. My phone powers down a lot

0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:41.160
<v Speaker 2>when it's hot. You're right, Cheryl, I've never had the reverse.

0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:43.960
<v Speaker 1>Right, but the reverse will be true. So again, you

0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:47.200
<v Speaker 1>think that water, I mean that was melted snow.

0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:48.560
<v Speaker 3>That water was freezing.

0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:52.960
<v Speaker 1>So again, you've got wet clothes, you've got wet bodies,

0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:54.000
<v Speaker 1>you've got wet ground.

0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:56.520
<v Speaker 3>That's going to happen. I think you know.

0:14:57.120 --> 0:15:00.360
<v Speaker 2>One of the witnesses got angry at the defense, lashed

0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:03.800
<v Speaker 2>out on cross examination, and then it did not behoove

0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:07.360
<v Speaker 2>the state at all. I wish that hadn't happened. I

0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:12.040
<v Speaker 2>don't blame the witness, but that didn't work out well

0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:14.760
<v Speaker 2>for the state. I think it led to some people

0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:18.600
<v Speaker 2>believing the witness had credibility problems. The witness has said

0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:24.360
<v Speaker 2>she saw the bridge guy muddy and then bloody and

0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:28.520
<v Speaker 2>then muddy and bloody. Essentially, it's what happened. But when

0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:31.960
<v Speaker 2>you see someone coming in mud and or blood, how

0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:33.960
<v Speaker 2>do you differentiate between that at a.

0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:39.040
<v Speaker 1>Distance, especially when you're not looking for anybody. Think how

0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:42.360
<v Speaker 1>many people pass you every day. You're not looking at

0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:44.760
<v Speaker 1>them as far as I better remember what they look like.

0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:48.240
<v Speaker 1>It's only when somebody stands out what stood out to

0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:49.920
<v Speaker 1>her is the appearance.

0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:52.360
<v Speaker 3>So you can only get so much.

0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:55.720
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's happening in you know, hundreds of a second,

0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:59.160
<v Speaker 1>You're like, there's a guy, he looks really bloody and muddy.

0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:01.560
<v Speaker 3>It is. It's really weird. It's like the waist down.

0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:03.160
<v Speaker 3>What would occur? Is he hurt?

0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:06.120
<v Speaker 1>And then you're almost a little frightened. So you can

0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:11.160
<v Speaker 1>only in your mind gather so much information, especially if

0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:12.560
<v Speaker 1>you're not trained.

0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:12.600
<v Speaker 3>To do that.

0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:18.640
<v Speaker 2>You know, this blue Carharrent jacket six hour two twenty

0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:23.680
<v Speaker 2>six forty caliber A forty S and W cartridge. I

0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:28.200
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't keepsake box from indresser. Now what do you make

0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:30.160
<v Speaker 2>of the item seized at his home?

0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:36.000
<v Speaker 1>You know, I'm extremely curious about the motorcycle cover, wanting

0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:39.400
<v Speaker 1>to hear why they took the aquapena bottle, but the

0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:43.680
<v Speaker 1>twenty three devices. When you are telling me you're going

0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:45.800
<v Speaker 1>to keep a pager, you're going.

0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:51.040
<v Speaker 4>To keep flip phones, but you don't keep a phone

0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:54.240
<v Speaker 4>that was associated with you being at the scene of

0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:58.840
<v Speaker 4>a double murder of two children that you know has

0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:04.840
<v Speaker 4>a GPS, has timestamp that can show Hey, in case

0:17:04.920 --> 0:17:09.120
<v Speaker 4>y'all don't know exactly when I was there, here it is.

0:17:10.160 --> 0:17:13.840
<v Speaker 1>And again he's claiming he was on the bridge. Well,

0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:17.399
<v Speaker 1>he don't claim he saw another man anywhere. He doesn't

0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:22.080
<v Speaker 1>claim he sees victims, Nancy. He only claims he sees

0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:27.520
<v Speaker 1>the three girls that he knows live to identify him,

0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:29.679
<v Speaker 1>because the other two didn't live to identify it.

0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:38.600
<v Speaker 2>I'm just thinking, through everything that's happening, I wonder why

0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:42.240
<v Speaker 2>the jury is reacting. I mean, I know how the

0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:46.119
<v Speaker 2>family's reacting, but what are they thinking. I would stop

0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:49.800
<v Speaker 2>at the end of every day of trial. I would

0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:53.120
<v Speaker 2>stand alone in front of the jury box and try

0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:58.560
<v Speaker 2>to reconstruct what each jury are, how they behaved, and

0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:02.119
<v Speaker 2>I would make a count at the end of every day. Okay,

0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:04.840
<v Speaker 2>I think I've got this one. Aunt tell them about

0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:08.480
<v Speaker 2>that one. This one's a problem, and whoever was a

0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:15.160
<v Speaker 2>problem I would argue directly to them or ask questions

0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:18.720
<v Speaker 2>looking at them, tried to connect with that is your

0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:24.359
<v Speaker 2>r the whole next day. I mean, it's really it's

0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:27.879
<v Speaker 2>an art and a science. Cheryl and and All. I

0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:30.280
<v Speaker 2>always say, once you've got twelve of the box, your

0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:31.200
<v Speaker 2>case is done.

0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:31.920
<v Speaker 3>That's right.

0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:35.200
<v Speaker 1>But I'll tell you, I think the jury being able

0:18:35.240 --> 0:18:36.879
<v Speaker 1>to ask questions.

0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:38.600
<v Speaker 3>For you, you would.

0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:40.800
<v Speaker 1>Be able to say, Okay, I know where they're headed

0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:43.280
<v Speaker 1>because this is what they're asking, and you would be

0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:47.200
<v Speaker 1>able on the fly to help them and navigate where

0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:49.840
<v Speaker 1>they needed you to go. But I want to just

0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:52.320
<v Speaker 1>say one more thing because I know you and I

0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:55.000
<v Speaker 1>know how you would have ended this whole thing so far.

0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:58.679
<v Speaker 1>Everybody in that town, and you and I have been

0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:04.639
<v Speaker 1>to Delphi multiple time. Those posters, those composites were everywhere,

0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:08.560
<v Speaker 1>every place you could eat, every hotel, every gas station,

0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:12.840
<v Speaker 1>everybody in that town. When Kelsey put it out on

0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:17.040
<v Speaker 1>social media showed up. You remember Grandma when she explained

0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:20.840
<v Speaker 1>it looked like, you know, lightning bugs all through the woods.

0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:24.240
<v Speaker 1>There were so many flashlights and people everybody in that

0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:26.879
<v Speaker 1>town stopped what they were doing looking for those children.

0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:30.600
<v Speaker 1>When Richard Allen, the police guide him and were talking

0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:30.960
<v Speaker 1>to him.

0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:33.160
<v Speaker 3>He got up and left.

0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:36.680
<v Speaker 2>To me, is so clear, And when I read all

0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:41.160
<v Speaker 2>these crazy conspiracy theories online, I just hope that's not

0:19:41.280 --> 0:19:44.399
<v Speaker 2>infecting the jury. What do you know about where the

0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:47.880
<v Speaker 2>jury is staying and how they're being handled.

0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:51.120
<v Speaker 1>I don't know anything, but from what I've just heard

0:19:51.160 --> 0:19:53.919
<v Speaker 1>of the people say that it's a very seamless event.

0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:57.520
<v Speaker 1>They are picked up, they're put right there at the courthouse.

0:19:57.560 --> 0:19:59.920
<v Speaker 1>They stayed pretty much there, Lunch is brought to them,

0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:03.800
<v Speaker 1>and they're taken right back. They have very limited access

0:20:03.840 --> 0:20:05.040
<v Speaker 1>to the outside vote.

0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:08.600
<v Speaker 2>I know that one juror was unable to watch when

0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:12.000
<v Speaker 2>new pictures were shown in court. I'm glad that jury

0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:15.160
<v Speaker 2>is facing strict rules. I know it's a pain in

0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:18.679
<v Speaker 2>the behind, but strict rules regarding what they can watch,

0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:21.639
<v Speaker 2>where they can go, because the last thing you want

0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:24.640
<v Speaker 2>is a problem with the jury. Look what it's done

0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:28.919
<v Speaker 2>in Murdoch. I mean, I do not believe that Becky

0:20:29.040 --> 0:20:32.919
<v Speaker 2>Hill swayed the jury. Do I think she may have

0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:35.560
<v Speaker 2>said inappropriate comments like hey, y'all going to reach the

0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:39.520
<v Speaker 2>quick verdict? He he things of that nature. I don't think

0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:43.680
<v Speaker 2>it affected the outcome of the trial. But I think

0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:48.280
<v Speaker 2>out of the to avoid the appearance of impropriety, that

0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:51.560
<v Speaker 2>there's going to have to be a new trial because

0:20:51.760 --> 0:20:57.280
<v Speaker 2>of jury misheddling, even in an innocent way, not intended

0:20:57.560 --> 0:20:59.920
<v Speaker 2>to hurt the jury, not intended to sway that you're

0:21:01.119 --> 0:21:04.919
<v Speaker 2>but it happened. We don't want that in Delphi. We

0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:06.680
<v Speaker 2>do not want that in Delphi.

0:21:07.359 --> 0:21:11.120
<v Speaker 3>That's right. Absolutely. I want to ask you one more thing.

0:21:11.320 --> 0:21:12.760
<v Speaker 3>I have a theory about the phone.

0:21:12.960 --> 0:21:17.639
<v Speaker 1>So Abby is wearing Libby's pants, right, and they're wet

0:21:17.680 --> 0:21:20.399
<v Speaker 1>because there's no way to get wet pants back on

0:21:20.480 --> 0:21:22.560
<v Speaker 1>somebody that is their pants.

0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:24.280
<v Speaker 3>So she's smaller, so that can happen.

0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:27.280
<v Speaker 1>I believe that phone was in that back pocket and

0:21:27.320 --> 0:21:30.320
<v Speaker 1>when he drug her into position, it simply came out

0:21:30.320 --> 0:21:31.120
<v Speaker 1>of the back pocket.

0:21:31.640 --> 0:21:34.359
<v Speaker 2>Oh, that reminds me of something one of this year

0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:38.960
<v Speaker 2>ars asked the question was the earth and or the

0:21:39.040 --> 0:21:45.600
<v Speaker 2>leaves under I guess it was Abby's body disturbed? Now

0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:46.840
<v Speaker 2>why did they want to know that?

0:21:47.400 --> 0:21:47.640
<v Speaker 3>Well?

0:21:47.680 --> 0:21:49.760
<v Speaker 1>I think it goes to what I'm saying. Was she

0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:53.639
<v Speaker 1>drug so if the earth under her was disturbed, they

0:21:53.640 --> 0:21:55.960
<v Speaker 1>would be able to know that. So was she put

0:21:56.040 --> 0:21:59.680
<v Speaker 1>into place? Was he staging the scene. Is that why

0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:03.440
<v Speaker 1>they're two feet from the blood. So again, if those

0:22:03.440 --> 0:22:05.959
<v Speaker 1>pants were put on her deliberately, because remember they were

0:22:06.040 --> 0:22:08.600
<v Speaker 1>unbuttoned on zipped, she didn't hike that way.

0:22:09.640 --> 0:22:13.840
<v Speaker 3>So again, it looks like to me that's what would.

0:22:13.680 --> 0:22:16.520
<v Speaker 1>Have occurred, that he's putting them where he wants them

0:22:16.560 --> 0:22:17.880
<v Speaker 1>to stage that sin.

0:22:18.280 --> 0:22:22.040
<v Speaker 2>Agree, Okay, Cheryl, I'll see in Delphi. We knew it

0:22:22.119 --> 0:22:23.600
<v Speaker 2>was coming, now it's here.

0:22:23.960 --> 0:22:25.919
<v Speaker 1>I can't wait to see you, and I know the

0:22:25.960 --> 0:22:27.359
<v Speaker 1>family is grateful you're coming.

0:22:27.680 --> 0:22:43.440
<v Speaker 3>Bye friend, Bye Bebby