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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, A stuff I never

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Speaker 1: told you protection I high Radio and welcome. Thank you

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Speaker 1: for joining us for another happy hour. As always, if

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Speaker 1: you choose to drink whatever it may be, so responsibly,

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Speaker 1: what are you used to fig on? Samantha. You know,

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Speaker 1: I haven't been feeling too wonderfully lately emotionally, so I

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Speaker 1: have decided to keep it non alcoholic today and I'm

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Speaker 1: doing some my Bubble water with my raspberry Bubble flavorings

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Speaker 1: that I love. I do know what it's called Bubble,

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Speaker 1: so the brand that has a little bubbles, and I

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Speaker 1: think Michael bubl is the campaign person, but it's actually

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Speaker 1: I think it's Bubble. Someone may tell me differently, but anyway,

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Speaker 1: it's not sponsored obviously by them, but I enjoy it.

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Speaker 1: You gave us the Sparkling Water Machine. Sparkling Water Machine,

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Speaker 1: which I actually a sponsor on the other show. I do. No,

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Speaker 1: I am not being biased. That's what I am slipping

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Speaker 1: on because I want to feel lively and bubble in

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Speaker 1: my emotional despair. Well, I hope that works. It sounds

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Speaker 1: lovely right right. Yes. I am drinking Gin Lucuras how

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Speaker 1: because I'm trying to get rid of this massive bottled

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Speaker 1: blue cors Oh my gosh, it's that you're gonna be

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Speaker 1: drinking it forever. I think you may just need to

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Speaker 1: keep it as something that you use every now and again.

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Speaker 1: I'm not still like I'm planning on plowing through it

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Speaker 1: or anything, but it is quite a bit. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: probably will that we will be buried with me when

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Speaker 1: I die. Here lies any Ner bottle Blue Girls now

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Speaker 1: and some sparkling water and some rosemary. It's very nice.

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Speaker 1: It's very pretty color. But I'm drinking it in a

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Speaker 1: glass that you can't see, so but you'll you'll just

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Speaker 1: trust me. It's very pretty. Um So, today's what it

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Speaker 1: should be. Short. This is something that's been on my

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Speaker 1: mind a lot, and I think it's been coming up

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Speaker 1: in a lot of episodes we've done recently, which is

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Speaker 1: this whole idea I've jokingly been calling in my head

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Speaker 1: just say no, and they're gonna be maybe brief discussion

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Speaker 1: of sexual but nothing in depth at all. But yeah, so,

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Speaker 1: as I've been going over it's hard for me. It's

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Speaker 1: like I've really separated myself from my body and it's

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Speaker 1: hard for me to know what I want. Um So,

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Speaker 1: I'm really reliant on like hues I pick up from

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Speaker 1: other people and what they want, and then I'll try

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Speaker 1: to like do that. That's not to say there aren't

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Speaker 1: things that I just want and I know that I

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Speaker 1: want them, you know, Star Wars and fan fiction being

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Speaker 1: right up there. But certainly in social situations, it's usually

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Speaker 1: when I'm dealing with other people. When I'm by myself,

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Speaker 1: I'm better at figuring out what that might be. But

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Speaker 1: when I'm with other people, I can get really confused,

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Speaker 1: and it can cause a lot of problems because people,

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Speaker 1: you know, sometimes interpret that pause or hesitation as oh,

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Speaker 1: you don't really want this, which might not be true.

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Speaker 1: It might be, but it's like I'm just someone who

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Speaker 1: asked the process things. And I know we've talked about

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Speaker 1: that Samantha before, where we're we can both be people

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Speaker 1: who would like kind of like just sit and take

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Speaker 1: something in and like think about it. Um. We've talked

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Speaker 1: before too about how I believe we talked about this

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Speaker 1: on the show. We've definitely talked about it in person,

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Speaker 1: about how you sometimes like legitimately don't care and so

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Speaker 1: you're like you want other people to decide because you've

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Speaker 1: legitimately don't care, but if you do, then you'll be like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I want barbecue or whatever whatever it is. Yes, And

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Speaker 1: I think you know, I know I've said before, and

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Speaker 1: this is this came up recently because I was hanging

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Speaker 1: out with some people recently where I cause problems by

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Speaker 1: not trying to cause problems, because people do. If if

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Speaker 1: people are your friends, they want to make you happy

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Speaker 1: and they want to take care of you, and by

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Speaker 1: I think it can get messy when you know you've

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Speaker 1: got your level of trauma and your level of processing

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Speaker 1: distance one, when you have low self esteem and you

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Speaker 1: think no one could possibly want to do that stuff

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Speaker 1: for you too, um three. But there's also like social

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Speaker 1: the social aspect of like I don't want someone to

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Speaker 1: go out of their way, and I feel like that

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Speaker 1: all comes together for me and it becomes this messy

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Speaker 1: just like almost freeze reaction I have where I don't

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Speaker 1: know what I want and I don't want to do

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Speaker 1: anything wrong, and I it's scary because that is part

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Speaker 1: of that did happen in sexual assaults and experience where

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Speaker 1: I was like do I want this? And I didn't,

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Speaker 1: but I like frozen in that moment it was like

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Speaker 1: maybe I do, maybe I should, like all of these

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Speaker 1: questions and not trusting myself at all to know what

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Speaker 1: I want to express it in a firm, clear way

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Speaker 1: that I isn't like, well, I'd rather not, but if

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Speaker 1: you want, you know, like that. And when we also

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Speaker 1: were recently talking about like our moms and one of

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Speaker 1: the things you know, we wish had told us, and

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Speaker 1: mine was like, I wish because I observed her and

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Speaker 1: she was awesome, very much like this that I wish

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Speaker 1: she had told me it's okay to say no, because

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Speaker 1: this has just been from a very young age. This

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Speaker 1: has been ingrained in me, like be a people pleaser,

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Speaker 1: and that usually means going along with whatever they want

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Speaker 1: to do, and your needs and wants are always secondary,

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Speaker 1: and that becomes so so much of how I operate.

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Speaker 1: And I think for a lot of women that this

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Speaker 1: is the case. Um And and there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: aspects to that that we've talked about as well, of

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Speaker 1: like the safety of saying no, all these other considerations

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Speaker 1: we have to put into it. But that's like a

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Speaker 1: large preamble for what I want to just say is

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Speaker 1: like recently I've been really practicing it and act your

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Speaker 1: sciahs where I'm like trying to check in with myself

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Speaker 1: and just say no, it's so powerful. Um. It's silly

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Speaker 1: how it can be such a small thing and I'll

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Speaker 1: feel like, look what you've just accomplished. And it's usually

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Speaker 1: the other person is like fine with it, They're like okay,

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Speaker 1: but I get so so worked up about it. And

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Speaker 1: one of the big things, which I also talked about

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Speaker 1: it on Monday many recently for me, is food, because

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Speaker 1: I want people to eat things and enjoy things, and

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Speaker 1: I feel like if I say no, they won't do it,

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Speaker 1: and I want them to do it, and so I'll

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Speaker 1: say yes. But um, recently this past weekend I did.

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Speaker 1: I had a couple of instances of nope, thank you,

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Speaker 1: thank you, um. And I know it's it sounds so silly,

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Speaker 1: but it is like, it is that the whole thing

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Speaker 1: that I've really been harping on at least three being

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Speaker 1: mindful about why you do things and what you want.

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Speaker 1: And I will say that it was easier for a

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Speaker 1: lot of reasons. It's easier for a lot of obvious

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Speaker 1: reasons to do it among friends and around food, especially

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Speaker 1: when there had been so much food so I was like,

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Speaker 1: legitimately full, but I'm hoping that this will expand to

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Speaker 1: other things. And and also just yeah again being able

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Speaker 1: to say yes and believe it, like also um that

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Speaker 1: I want it, And again a lot of things I

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Speaker 1: say yes you I do ultimately want to do. It's

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Speaker 1: just that it's that moment of in decision and not

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Speaker 1: knowing for sure and just going along with it, whereas

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Speaker 1: I want to be like, yes, you do want to

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Speaker 1: do this, yes or no you don't. And it sounds

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Speaker 1: so basic, but it is very dangerous when it comes

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Speaker 1: to things like sexual assault or knowing what you want

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Speaker 1: a relationship. Is just something I really really struggled with

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Speaker 1: because it was always about the other person for me

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Speaker 1: and feeling guilty about not doing what they want and

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Speaker 1: that's just not a place to make healthy decisions trump

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Speaker 1: And also um uh yeah, I do wish. I do

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Speaker 1: wish that I had learned that at a younger age

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Speaker 1: that that was okay. And also um that I didn't

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Speaker 1: because I mean, people who know you know I will

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Speaker 1: say no. If there's something I really don't want to

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Speaker 1: do it, I'll be like no, But it almost has

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Speaker 1: to become like such an over the top thing, whereas

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Speaker 1: I want to be able to just be like, no,

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Speaker 1: I have to make it a big ordeal. And then

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Speaker 1: people are like, why are you making it a big ordeal?

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, I don't know. I don't want to.

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Speaker 1: She really doesn't want to play the game Catania. This

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Speaker 1: is true. I would do it for you. I would

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Speaker 1: do it. You would say it as a joke because

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Speaker 1: she her reaction her because big eyes and no. Essentially,

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Speaker 1: I was burnt by the sheep. Everyone burnt burnt by

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Speaker 1: the sheep. But yeah, that's all I really wanted to

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Speaker 1: talk about today. I know it's really simple, but it

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Speaker 1: has such larger implications and it is really that just knowing,

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Speaker 1: knowing yourself and knowing you want. It's such a like

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Speaker 1: it's a big deal and it's a relief and there's

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Speaker 1: stability in that. Yeah, I don't know if it's coming

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Speaker 1: up or if it's already happened or for those who

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Speaker 1: don't listen in order if you ever hear this, uh,

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Speaker 1: in our recent episode for our book club, we just

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Speaker 1: talk about the whole fact that No. She talks about Oh,

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Speaker 1: I guess it's the second part. She talks about the

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Speaker 1: fact that that is a societal failing when we can't

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Speaker 1: just say no essentially um, whatever it maybe, or have

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Speaker 1: to make an excuse for not wanting thing or not

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Speaker 1: doing something. And I think that's that overall thing is

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Speaker 1: especially as women being told to be polite. Polite means

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Speaker 1: accepting whatever's given to you. So accepting food, you know

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Speaker 1: you have to accept it, don't say no, don't turn

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Speaker 1: something down, being asked on a date, being talked to, like,

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Speaker 1: even if we're uncomfortable, if we're not polite about it,

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Speaker 1: we're seen as rude, and it's a failing on us

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Speaker 1: instead of being oh wait, they're violating my rights and

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Speaker 1: my own bodily space by coming over here talking to

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Speaker 1: me when I have my headphones in and obviously working.

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Speaker 1: Why are you standing here? Like There's been so many

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Speaker 1: videos recently and I love this and I'm glad it's happening.

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Speaker 1: When we see young women just minding their own damn

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Speaker 1: business being approached by men and will they will not

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Speaker 1: go away, take no for an answer or take any

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Speaker 1: hints um, and then eventually being told and usually within

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Speaker 1: the same video or a comment section where we're being rude.

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Speaker 1: There's no need to be rude. That needs to be

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Speaker 1: taken out of that conversation all the together. How about

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Speaker 1: it was rude to not take the hint. Sure, you

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Speaker 1: can shoot your shot, but if you've been turned down,

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Speaker 1: that's the end of story over. And especially if you're

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Speaker 1: coming as to a young girl, and this was many

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Speaker 1: of those where they're obviously teenage girls and you are

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Speaker 1: a fifty forty year old man, twenty year old man,

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Speaker 1: and you see this, you are out of bounds, point blank.

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Speaker 1: And this whole narrative that we need to be nice

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Speaker 1: to strangers, which is fed into women all together, is

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Speaker 1: that we have to be nice to strangers and be polite.

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Speaker 1: That should be thrown out the window. And I know

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Speaker 1: it's slowly happening, thank god, but there's still that large

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Speaker 1: narrative of but you need to be polite. And of

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Speaker 1: course you've already said this part about you know, this

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Speaker 1: is part of our safety. We just make up things

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Speaker 1: for our safety. So making a partner so when they

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Speaker 1: hear the rejection, they truly hear the rejection. But don't

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Speaker 1: be wrong. When I was a nanny, it didn't matter.

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Speaker 1: I got hit on by men who I thought were

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Speaker 1: safe because they were married and I was like, what's happening.

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Speaker 1: So that's a whole different conversation we could have, and

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Speaker 1: not just when I was a nanny, but it just

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Speaker 1: happened to be that I was around people with children,

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Speaker 1: so that what I was seeing, or the fact that, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there has to be an excuse that I'm not interested

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Speaker 1: in you. There has to be an excuse I don't

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Speaker 1: want to hang out with you any of those conversations,

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Speaker 1: or yeah, that I'm just not hungry. And don't get

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Speaker 1: me wrong, I'm one of these that takes a little

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Speaker 1: bit of an offense and I tried not to. If

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Speaker 1: I've made something and you don't try it, I'm like,

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Speaker 1: you don't like me. That's really what you rejected me.

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Speaker 1: But that's also but that's also part of the narrative

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Speaker 1: that we have to stop, is that we can't take

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Speaker 1: this as a personal offense against us individually. And unfortunately

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Speaker 1: we've gotten caught up in that as well, because we're

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Speaker 1: seeing that if you deny something, that's an extreme form

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Speaker 1: of rejection because we're told to not do it. So

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Speaker 1: this is double warming. But yeah, I don't mind saying

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Speaker 1: I don't want to come out like I think the

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Speaker 1: pandemic has really helped with my narrative. Like, Hey, I'm

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Speaker 1: an introvert, I don't want to be out long. I'm

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Speaker 1: good bye. I will quickly leave. I'll be like, I'm sleepy,

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Speaker 1: I'm leaving. I'm gonna go upstairs and taking y'all gonna

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Speaker 1: hang out right, Yeah, yeah, And I mean there's so

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Speaker 1: many things that's kind of hesitated to even bring this

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Speaker 1: one up because there are so many other things that play.

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Speaker 1: And like when I'm talking about food, there's also you

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Speaker 1: have to take into account. Like a lot of times

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking about friends who are women who are, you know,

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Speaker 1: very obsessed with their diet. Maybe I don't like to

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Speaker 1: eat some word of obsessed, but yeah, they're very concerned

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Speaker 1: about their diet. And when they are like, oh, I

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Speaker 1: want to order fries, but only if you'll get them,

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Speaker 1: I totally understand that impulse. I do that too, And

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Speaker 1: I also don't want to eat a hole plate of fries.

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Speaker 1: I want to share them. But because of that then

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Speaker 1: I'll be like, oh, I don't want them, but I'll

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Speaker 1: say yeah, Like you know, there's a lot of like

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Speaker 1: complications and gradations within all of this, and those are

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Speaker 1: things that you know, I and I would imagine a

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Speaker 1: lot of people, and in this case, a lot of

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Speaker 1: women are thinking of that because we do. We have

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Speaker 1: been largely socialized to make people happy and to think

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Speaker 1: about other people and do what we can to facilitate

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Speaker 1: their happiness. And then at the same time, I'm also

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Speaker 1: I know I've talked about it before. I have terrible

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Speaker 1: coping mechanisms and I'm trying to get better and I

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Speaker 1: am working on it. But one of them is if

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Speaker 1: I'm out with people like me for me being busy,

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Speaker 1: even though I do like it, I love it. It's

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Speaker 1: kind of it's part of my identity. And that's why

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Speaker 1: it's been so hard to break is I'm sort of

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Speaker 1: known as like that person who's so busy and she

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Speaker 1: will go if you invite her, she will go. And

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Speaker 1: I do want to do those things, but I have

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Speaker 1: no off I have no stop and I should stop

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Speaker 1: and I need sleep or I need to just go

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Speaker 1: home and not be out and about wild. But it's

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Speaker 1: a coping mechanism that's not very healthy because it's I

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Speaker 1: don't want to go home and deal with whatever thing

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Speaker 1: is on my mind or I know will keep me

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Speaker 1: up tonight. Or whatever it is. And I am also

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Speaker 1: very paranoid that I'll just lose all my friends suddenly,

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Speaker 1: like they'll be like, oh, she didn't come out this

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Speaker 1: one time, I'll never ask her again. So there is

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Speaker 1: a lot. I mean, it's it's when I say just

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Speaker 1: say no, in the power of saying no, I do

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Speaker 1: truly believe it, but there is it's not as easy

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Speaker 1: as that, which is why I kind of hesitated. I do.

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Speaker 1: I did want to talk about like my experiences of

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Speaker 1: my phrase, if it recently, and how I felt. But

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Speaker 1: it's I am under no disillusion that it is much

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Speaker 1: more complicated for a lot. I mean, all kinds of

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Speaker 1: things come into play, at least for me when I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking about like saying no, and what are they going

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Speaker 1: to interpret that ass and the oh no, what are

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Speaker 1: canny be their amplications of this? All this, I think

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Speaker 1: I'm more I'm more like it's not even that that

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about. I'm more talking about like I just

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Speaker 1: want personally to know maybe I've all no inside my

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Speaker 1: head the answer is yes or no, and I'll still

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Speaker 1: say the opposite, but I want to know it myself,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. That's kind of more what

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about, right, to know what you want instead

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Speaker 1: of just going with the flow, yes, and to be

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Speaker 1: confident in it and to be like, Okay, I want

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Speaker 1: this and and and and kind of what we were

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Speaker 1: talking about in the recent book Club two of like

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Speaker 1: that being fine, like I don't have to maybe the

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Speaker 1: answer is no, and I don't really know why, but

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Speaker 1: that's okay. Like the answer is just no, what you

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Speaker 1: feel right now and it could change later. Yeah, exactly exactly.

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Speaker 1: So cheers to that. Cheers, clink clink, yes, and cheers

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Speaker 1: to your listeners. Thank you as always for joining us,

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Speaker 1: and if you would like to contact us, we always

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Speaker 1: love hearing from you. Our email is Stuff Media Mom

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Speaker 1: Stuff at i heeart media dot com. You can find

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Speaker 1: us on Twitter at moms of podcast or on Instagram

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Speaker 1: and Stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks as always to

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Speaker 1: our super producer, Christina. Cheers, Christina, Yes, cheers, and thanks

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Speaker 1: to you for listening Stuff under Told these protection of

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Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. For more podcasts on my heart Radio

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