1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,439 Speaker 1: Too Much Information is a production of I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:11,720 Speaker 1: Hello everyone, and welcome to Too Much Information, the show 3 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: that brings you the secret history a little known, fascinating 4 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 1: facts behind your favorite music, movies, TV shows, and more. 5 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: We're two guys with too much free time in our hands. 6 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 1: My name is Jordan run Tug and I'm Alex Heigel. 7 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 1: And Jordan, you're gonna have to run that at about 8 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: one point five speed. We're talking about Sonic the Hedgehog. 9 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: You should have We should have slammed espressos for this show. 10 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: We are going to be running through so many facts. 11 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 1: We're going to crouch down into little tiny balls and 12 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: spin around really fast, and then I'm gonna fall into 13 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: hitter spikes. Because it's the can baby, because it's because 14 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:45,839 Speaker 1: it's a Sunday Fun Day. Baby. Sonic turn thirty years 15 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:48,239 Speaker 1: old last year. You could say that Time was the 16 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 1: only thing that could catch him. He couldn't outrun Father Time. Yes, 17 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 1: we love Sonic, although you know, I have to admit 18 00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: I was more of a PlayStation guy. I had a 19 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: game gear, and I distinctly remember I learned about my 20 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: emotional issues as a child playing Sonic. Holy did that 21 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 1: game infuriate. I remember throwing my game gear across the 22 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: room at one point and then being like, oh my god, 23 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: did I break that? Like my dad's gonna kill me. 24 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: I desperately wanted it in sixty four as a kid, 25 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: and a very well meeting relative didn't know the difference 26 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 1: between sixty four and PlayStation, and I got a PlayStation, 27 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:28,960 Speaker 1: so I had to make do with crash bandicoot um 28 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: or they did it on purpose because they saw that 29 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: I was a sadist whenever I played Goldmine with the 30 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 1: remote minds and the facility, and they probably just didn't 31 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: want him encourage that and decided to get me a 32 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: slightly less violent gaming system. But let's move away from 33 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 1: our sonistic child in Tendencies now and back to Sonic. 34 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: And again, Sonic was not a huge part of my life, 35 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 1: but when he turned thirty, I talked about him as 36 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 1: if he was real. When Sonic the character turned thirty 37 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: last summer, just this outpouring of affection from all over 38 00:01:56,200 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 1: the globe. Really maybe reconsider him the game and it's anyhow, 39 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 1: you know, even after all this time, after now a 40 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: second big budget action movie, I still feel like he's 41 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 1: seeing us the like flashy underdog, which I mean, I 42 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: guess he's definitely cooler than Mario, who is a portly 43 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 1: Italian plumber. But still you keep Mario's name. O mouth 44 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: hear me run talk. Well, you know you're right. We 45 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 1: are going to talk about everything from Sonics early days 46 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: as a head shot aimed at Mario's mustachioed head, to 47 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: Michael Jackson's involvement in the franchise, and and Bill Clinton's involvement, 48 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: Bill Clinton's involvement in Yeah Wow, pseudo involvement. Here's everything 49 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: you didn't know about Sonic the Hedgehog. So you mentioned 50 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: Mario Brothers first of all, how dare you? But second 51 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:56,239 Speaker 1: of all, flashback to the late eighties early nineties. A 52 00:02:56,360 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 1: nation turns its hopeful eyes to a portly Italian plumber, 53 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 1: portly Italian man. The ne S the Nintendo Entertainment system 54 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 1: is what you have, the all those early canonical Mario 55 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 1: Brothers games on and Super Mario Brothers three the third 56 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 1: installment is like a record breaking world conquering success. And 57 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: so Sega the Genesis is twice as powerful as the 58 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:21,799 Speaker 1: ne S sixteen bit processing cartridges versus eight bit, and 59 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 1: they took aim at Nintendo early on with their slogan 60 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 1: Genesis does what Nintendo Don't, which is a great bit 61 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: of marketing. I love that. But up until this pup 62 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: until the Sonic era, their main strategy had been just 63 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: to port their arcade games over to the Genesis. And 64 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: you know, we're not gonna get two into the weeds 65 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: with lingo. But porting means you take an existing game 66 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: and move it from one platform to the other. So 67 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:49,640 Speaker 1: in this case, the big arcade cabinets onto a home system, 68 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: and they had previous currently residing in the where Are 69 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: They Now files. Alex Kid h was the initial Sega choice, 70 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 1: the internal Sega choice for a mascot. Um. I don't 71 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:06,839 Speaker 1: remember anything about these. Yeah, I'm so glad you said that. 72 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: I was not familiar with him at all. Um. There 73 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 1: were four of these games released from one, two, three, four, six, 74 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,600 Speaker 1: from six to ninety, and I guess if they're Alex 75 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 1: Kidd stands out there, we'll hear from him. But he 76 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: was discarded. He was thrown away like yesterday's garbage because 77 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:28,799 Speaker 1: he looked too much like Mario um and Sega president 78 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: Hio naka Yama wanted a flagship character to compete with Mario. 79 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 1: So he held an internal contest through the company specifically 80 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 1: aimed at American audiences, which is, now we're getting into 81 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 1: one of my favorite things, which is how Japanese people 82 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 1: perceive and understand American culture. So Sonic as a character 83 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 1: is a mix of Michael Jackson he licks the cat, 84 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: Mickey Mouse, and as you alluded to earlier, Bill Clinton. 85 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,279 Speaker 1: Obviously is it you hear that? Now it's obvious that 86 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: those are the things that went in the song. So 87 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: as part of this contest, an animator name now to 88 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 1: Oshima and programmer named Yugi Naka proposed a game based 89 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: on a fast moving character rocketing through a tube. Because 90 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 1: Naka had recently worked out a programming technique to get 91 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,919 Speaker 1: a sprite, which is a small animated character or not 92 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 1: animated small character made up of you know, individual pixels. Pixels, Yeah, 93 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:26,159 Speaker 1: to get a sprite moving at very high speeds along 94 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 1: curved environments, which was a big This is like a 95 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 1: big breakthrough because you think of early video games, it's 96 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:34,159 Speaker 1: all very squared off. Mario's all the blocks and stuff, 97 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: Whereas I mean, that's true, I didn't even think of 98 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 1: that until right now. If you play Sonic it's all rings, 99 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 1: it's all loop de loops, it's all very rounded. And 100 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: so this proposal was accepted and a designer name Judo 101 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 1: Kazu Yasohoo was added to the dev team. And originally 102 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:53,600 Speaker 1: they wanted a rabbit. Why did they want a rabbit, 103 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:56,719 Speaker 1: Jordan's so glad you asked. They wanted a rabbit because 104 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 1: he would have prehensile ears to grasp and manipulate objects. 105 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 1: This proved to be too complicated, perhaps obviously in hindsight, 106 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 1: it was like, if you're just crossing the bridge of 107 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 1: getting curved things in your video game, the idea that 108 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 1: you want a character to have prehensile ears to move 109 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:17,040 Speaker 1: things in the environment might have seemed like a bridge 110 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:21,799 Speaker 1: too far from the jump anyway, Yeah, exactly. So instead 111 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: they focused on this idea of a character rolling into 112 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: a ball because they had this circular sprite thing going 113 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 1: and they wanted to do an armadillo before settling on 114 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: a hedgehog. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, Armadillo would probably seem pretty 115 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: American because the whole like in Texas, American Southwest thing. Um. 116 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:45,039 Speaker 1: They were originally going to call this rabbit character feel 117 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 1: the rabbit, which is as you wrote, it's it's slots 118 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: so neatly into the Elmer Fudd the right of the 119 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:55,480 Speaker 1: valkyriez that kill the web, kill the web. It so 120 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: feel the rabbit anyway, But because they knew a great ideal, 121 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: they had it and wanted to hang onto it, they 122 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: recycled this very game called Restar. A few years later, 123 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: um and Oshima was talking to Polygon Gaming tech outlet, 124 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: a writer for them named Michael mcquarter, and he said, 125 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: I planned a trip to New York while this discussion 126 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: was going on. Internally, Sega said, we definitely want to 127 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: see something like an old guy with a mustache. Sure, 128 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: who would go on to become the game's bad guy. 129 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 1: I wonder if they were trying to demonize Mario with that. 130 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the dr robot in the character I think 131 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: came about as like an unflattering parody of Mario. You've 132 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: got the big you know, they got the overalls, I think, 133 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: and then you've got the big mustache. Yeah, it was 134 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: that definitely a shot at Mario cutthroat world of nineties 135 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 1: video games. They're vicious, the anti Italian American discrimination and 136 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: here is outrageous. Uh. We also want to see something 137 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 1: spiky and we also want to see a dog like chacter. 138 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: So this this, this is taking form. Then there is 139 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 1: this great story, maybe apocryphal, that Oshima and other designers 140 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 1: went out to Central Park to do a little like 141 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: real world market testing, and they stopped people who are 142 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: out for a stroll and asked them opinions on different 143 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: character designs that they had, and this blue hedgehog character 144 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: was a clear favorite, and according to Sega, it was 145 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 1: because that it transcends race and gender, which sure, okay, 146 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 1: I'll go with that. Um. They also wanted a character 147 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:33,319 Speaker 1: that children could easily draw, and Sonic definitely fit that bill. 148 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: And apparently the hedgehog was chosen for practical reasons to 149 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: you can even say evolutionary reasons. Hedgehogs can curl into 150 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: a ball and roll away as a defensive tactic, which 151 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: inspired Sonic Spin Dash attack. I curl into a ball 152 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 1: for defensive reasons. Speaking didn't see if you're getting character 153 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:58,719 Speaker 1: named after me. It's fetal position man minor minor professional setbacks. 154 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:01,560 Speaker 1: Send him into his and did fetal position where he 155 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: rolls away and sits in the shower for thirty minutes, 156 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: reflecting on his life choices. Uh Oshima says that he 157 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 1: just stuck Felix the cats head onto the body of 158 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: Mickey Mouse to create Sonic, which sounds a bit reductive, 159 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 1: but um they then died in blue to match. So 160 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: the Sega logo, which Sega initially sonic, was a darker blue, 161 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: but it turns out he blended too well in with 162 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: the ocean backgrounds, and so they lightened him. And this 163 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 1: is my favorite bit about this. We talked earlier about 164 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: where Bill Clinton fits into this, and Oshima, I guess, 165 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: in attempting to make Sonics identity uniquely American, he drew 166 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:46,079 Speaker 1: inspiration from Bill Clinton, who and these are quotes whose 167 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 1: proactive attitude was supposedly reflected in Sonics Can Do attitude. 168 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 1: The game is also has an environmental theme that was 169 00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:00,120 Speaker 1: also a reflection on the then hot button topic of 170 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 1: conservation and global warming in the nineties. And now that 171 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 1: we move into the sartorial aspect of the design, the 172 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 1: buckled red shoes are an homage to Michael Jackson on 173 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: the cover of seven Bad Bad Record and The Bad Record, 174 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: and they were made red and white partially because of 175 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: Santa Claus, who Oshiba had pegged as the most famous 176 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: character in the world, and also apparently so they could 177 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 1: be seen at the high speeds in the game, they 178 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: showed up better against the blue background. But Michael Jackson 179 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: may have also provided more than just style in Spoke. 180 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: There are conflicting reports as the weather. Michael Jackson, who 181 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: was apparently a huge Sonic fan, contributed to the series 182 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: uh specifically the music for the series third installment, and 183 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:47,680 Speaker 1: Oshima said that Michael Jackson's work was scrubbed after the 184 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: allegations of sexual abuse against him, although there are others 185 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 1: who worked on the game who said that some of 186 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 1: his music remains in the game. But there's actually another 187 00:10:57,640 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: version of the story. There's also a version that says 188 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:02,959 Speaker 1: that Michael Jackson walked away from the project himself because 189 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: he was frustrated with the limitations of the Sanga Genesis 190 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: sound chip, and he has to be uncredited in the 191 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:12,440 Speaker 1: final game. And it's interesting fans of notice similarities between 192 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 1: the end credits and Sonic three and Michael Jackson's song 193 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:19,839 Speaker 1: Stranger in Moscow. And there's a great, really really long 194 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: read Huffington Post article from two thousand and sixteen about this, 195 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 1: written by Todd Van Lewing, and it's it delves into 196 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 1: all the my new show about whether or not Michael 197 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:33,199 Speaker 1: Jackson actually did contribute music to the third Sonic game. Well, 198 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: I think the thing were missing over here is that 199 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 1: there was a Michael Jackson video game called Moonwalker. On 200 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 1: what uh Sega had released it? Yeah? Um so Moonwalker 201 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 1: um was developed into an arcade game by Sego with 202 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 1: Jackson's input. They're based on the Smooth Criminal clip. I 203 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 1: would have thought the bad video. I guess he's not 204 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 1: fighting anybody in that, is he? I guess he's breaking 205 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,079 Speaker 1: up the fight. Oh. Hold on. The stages are based 206 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 1: on his different music videos as he rescues children from 207 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:12,080 Speaker 1: a drug dealer named Mr. Big Uh. Making contact with Bubbles, 208 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:19,199 Speaker 1: Michael's chimp turns him into a robot warrior, which replaces 209 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:24,320 Speaker 1: his melee dance attacks with missiles and laser beams. In 210 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: the console version of the games, if you rescued a 211 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: certain child first, a comet would fall from the sky 212 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 1: that would turn Michael into a robot And um, this 213 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:40,319 Speaker 1: just has it in quotes, dance magic is apparently a 214 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 1: big part of this, this game Moodwalker. So yeah, I 215 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 1: guess Michael was already a known quantity at sega um. 216 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: That's so interesting. Wow, I did not know that. And 217 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: now it's time for another segment of the podcast we 218 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:56,559 Speaker 1: like to call Jordan throws Alex a bone about John Carpenter. 219 00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: John Carpenter, my favorite director of all time, loves video games. 220 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: He loves people adapting his films now so that he 221 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: can get a check and continue to get high and 222 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 1: play video games. And he loves Sonic. He even in 223 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: one interview says, I even like the one where he 224 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: turns into a werewolf, which is a late era Sonic 225 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 1: game called Sonic Unleashed and a universally panned entry in 226 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:24,719 Speaker 1: the series. But never you fear Sega. John Carpenter's got 227 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: your back. But while we're talking about the music to Sonic, 228 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 1: who actually did the music? Jordan's Masada Nakamura, who is 229 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:34,440 Speaker 1: a member of the j pop band Dreams Come True. 230 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 1: And interesting thing about Dreams Come True is that the 231 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 1: band provided the music for Sleepless in Seattle with Tom 232 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 1: Hanks and Meg Bryan. Because we can't do a show 233 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:46,679 Speaker 1: without mentioning Tom Hanks. Oh man, that's our first Hanks. 234 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: Did we get to three in this episode? I I 235 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:55,199 Speaker 1: don't know. Maybe we'll try that. Yeah, alright, so this 236 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: is wild too. I did this earlier. Maybe you couldn't tell. 237 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: Maybe my voice was just too beautiful. But the saga 238 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 1: that SoundBite took up an eighth of the space on 239 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 1: the cartridge. That four second jingle needed more storage space 240 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: than entire levels of the game, So they cut stuff 241 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: from the game gameplay to make the jingle, to make 242 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: the it's not even a jingle, it's a it's a 243 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: it's a phrase. Whatever. Great, great decisions made at every level. 244 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 1: Um Sadly, one of these scenes that was lost to 245 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 1: the ruthless cutting blade of Sega's dev team was an 246 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 1: end credit sequence where Sonic plays with a rock band 247 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: made up of fellow animals, including a monkey on base 248 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 1: and an alligator on keys. And on the Master System 249 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 1: version of this game, you can actually see some cutting 250 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 1: room floor footage of it where Sonic is seen singing 251 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: into a microphone. But that is not the extent of 252 00:14:56,160 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 1: sonics musical career. Jordan's tell us about it. Yes, at 253 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 1: one point, Sonic was pitched as a rock star with 254 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: a girlfriend named Madonna. In an early version of this game, 255 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: Sonic had a girlfriend named Madonna who was like a 256 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 1: human woman, not a hedgehog, and from the sketches I've seen, 257 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 1: she very strongly resembles Jessica Rabbit with blonde hair, or 258 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: perhaps the real Madonna could have gone with the real 259 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: Madonna there In an early incarnation of the game, Sonic 260 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: was supposed to rescue her as opposed to rescuing woodland creatures, 261 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: and there have been a few explanations as to why 262 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 1: she was written out the final game, in addition to 263 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: needing to free up space so they could have this 264 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: beloved jingle. Uh, one is that the content had to 265 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 1: be quote softened for children in foreign countries, or the 266 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 1: whole damsel in distress thing was too similar to Mario Brothers. 267 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: Weird because an early sketch of Sonic he had these 268 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 1: like really terrifying fangs, Like he looked like, you know, 269 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 1: Sonic as we know him and love him, is a 270 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: kind of a cuddly Mickey Mouse type creature, but this 271 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 1: early version he looks very threatening, so I can see 272 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: dropping the fangs. That's kind of softened up his image. 273 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 1: But yeah, I don't know. Interesting when the current Sonic 274 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 1: movies run their course and we get greedy remake the 275 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 1: greedy reboot of like Tortured Dark Sonic. He's gonna have 276 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 1: huge fangs and like a hot Jessica Rabbit girlfriend. As 277 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: you meditate on that, we'll be right back with more 278 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 1: too much information after these messages. You also touched on 279 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: this earlier. I'm not reading any of this anti Italian 280 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 1: American discrimination, okay, Um, yeah, I mentioned this earlier. The 281 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: The Road Tones body of Sonics nemesis Dr robot Nick 282 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 1: was developed back when Sega was trying to come up 283 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 1: with a Mario competitor, and this egg shaped man was 284 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 1: drafted basically as an unflattering Mario parody with a little 285 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: bit of Teddy Roosevelt thrown in. I think um and 286 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 1: the early version he was just as fat man in 287 00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: pajamas with a huge mustache. And they decided to go 288 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 1: with in a different direction for their main character, the hero. 289 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 1: But they decided to keep this this rotun gentleman as 290 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 1: the villain because I mean, it seems fitting for Saga 291 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: to have a Mario analog as their villain, right. Um. 292 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: He's known in Japan as Eggman, but that name didn't 293 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 1: really translate in the States, supposedly because the name Eggman 294 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: was already in the popular lexicon thanks to the Beatles 295 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 1: song I Am the Walrus. And while we're on the 296 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:31,119 Speaker 1: topic of names, yeah uh, there's a persistent rumor that 297 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 1: Sonic was originally going to be called Mr. Needle Mouse, 298 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:38,920 Speaker 1: which sounds like a Faulty Towers character more than anything, 299 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:42,640 Speaker 1: or like one of these British towns where they would 300 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:47,439 Speaker 1: have sent the Rolling Stones Mobile studio to record, like uh, 301 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,159 Speaker 1: Glenn John's and the Rolling Stone Mobile Studio showed up 302 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 1: on the town of Stratford upon Needle Mouse. Um. Eug 303 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: Naka explained years ago that this was just a translation air. 304 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:00,920 Speaker 1: They just called the character Mr head jug and the 305 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: Japanese word for Hedgehog is hubbins in numi, which literally 306 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 1: translates to needle and mouse, which makes sense hedgehog is 307 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 1: a mouse with needles. Uh. And according to a former 308 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 1: head writer of the series, a guy by the name 309 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 1: of Ken Pender's, another early name was Ogilvy Maurice Hedgehog, 310 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 1: so kind of a wash Ovvie Maurice needle mouse, though, 311 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,959 Speaker 1: that's kind of certain something to it that sounds like 312 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 1: the birth name of some Robert plant. Yeah, yeah, I 313 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:39,639 Speaker 1: was gonna say Michael Caine. But yeah, speaking of lore 314 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,880 Speaker 1: and backstories, and there's a lot of that. In fact, 315 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: there's so much of that. There is a massive Sonic 316 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:51,959 Speaker 1: Bible that was created internally at Sega to basically create 317 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:54,679 Speaker 1: a bedrock to create all the levels and the stories 318 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 1: of the game. And yeah, this internal document was dubbed 319 00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 1: the Sonic Bible, and it outlines Sonics origin in extreme detail, 320 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 1: and it was intended to be a reference for developers 321 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,919 Speaker 1: making future versions of the game, and some of it 322 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 1: was actually used as fodder for the Sonic comic book 323 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: series two uh and the Sonic Bible, it was god 324 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,200 Speaker 1: was never meant for publication, but a former Sonic employee 325 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 1: actually talked about it in a Sonic Retro web form 326 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 1: in two thousand nine and fans went nuts and asked 327 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: him to scan it in which he did, and he 328 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: apparently sold copies of it on eBay, which I'm kind 329 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: of blown away that the Sega legal team didn't sue 330 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 1: him into oblivion for that, But there's copies PDFs of 331 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:40,880 Speaker 1: it floating around online pages. It's over thirty pages, which 332 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 1: is single space, so and that's quite impressive. And this Bible, 333 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:48,400 Speaker 1: it was revised many times, So like most religions, there 334 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: are many different interpretations and versions of what is considered 335 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 1: sonic cannon and UM. There's a guy by the name 336 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: of Brian David Gilbert who was on the Polygon YouTube channel, 337 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 1: and he's a very interesting video about the on Bible 338 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 1: and it's different variations. Um. Early interior feedback for this 339 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: was not good. There's a guy who worked for Atari 340 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:12,920 Speaker 1: and he founded the Sega Technical Institute, which is sort 341 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 1: of their thing tank. His name is Mark Sarney. He 342 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 1: incidentally had a hand developing the PS four. He said 343 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: in two thousand and six that the early feedback from 344 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 1: higher ups in the company included that the characters were unsalvageable. 345 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,119 Speaker 1: That is a quote that this thing was quote a disaster, 346 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 1: and my personal favorite quote, procedures would be put in 347 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: place to make sure that this sort of thing would 348 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 1: never happen again, which is something I say to Jordan 349 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:43,399 Speaker 1: whenever we're done taping when these um, yeah, yeah, I 350 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,440 Speaker 1: had heard that the higher ups were actually mostly concerned 351 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,439 Speaker 1: that the general public, at least overseas, wouldn't know what 352 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 1: a hedgehog was, because apparently there are no hedgehogs in 353 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:58,879 Speaker 1: the United States, Porcupine, Yes, Hedgehog No, that true. Yeah, 354 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 1: I didn't know that either. Weird all right, maybe some 355 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,639 Speaker 1: foresight on the part of Sega. But then again, they 356 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: made the Dreamcast. So that's the only bit of video 357 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,679 Speaker 1: game insider. I just know that the Dreamcast was a flop. 358 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 1: That's that's all I got for you. Uh. Incidentally, moving on, 359 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 1: there's a guy from Mattel named Tom Kolinsky who comes 360 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: in to replace the CEO of Sega America. And Kolinsky 361 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: was brought in as part of the company's attempts to 362 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:32,639 Speaker 1: reverse their fortunes and beating Nintendo. Yeah exactly. That's like 363 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: sort of the log line of Sega at this point 364 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 1: is beating Nintendo at all costs. Um. Kolinsky makes this 365 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: decision to package Sonic as the pack in game. That's 366 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 1: what when you buy a console, you get a game 367 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,439 Speaker 1: with it. It's usually a crappy game because usually one 368 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 1: they don't mind giving away. So this guy is suggesting 369 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: to make Sonic their new Markey character. The packing game 370 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 1: was extremely controversial, to put it mildly, when he pitched 371 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,920 Speaker 1: this idea to the Japanese VP of Sega. This VP 372 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,920 Speaker 1: supposedly stood up from his chair screamed, are you crazy? 373 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,439 Speaker 1: We make money selling software, and now you want to 374 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:12,639 Speaker 1: give away our best title. That he stood up, kicked 375 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,639 Speaker 1: his chair and started to walk to the tour and 376 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,680 Speaker 1: then he turned around inside. If you think that will 377 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:23,680 Speaker 1: help us beat Nintendo, do it. So they gave away 378 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 1: Sonic to fifteen million households, and this gamble ultimately worked 379 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 1: the knock Nintendo off the top spot and gave Sega 380 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: the market majority of six. This really was like a 381 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,400 Speaker 1: David and Goliath story in the video game world because 382 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 1: for every dollar that Sega had in its marketing budget, 383 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: Nintendo had fifteen dollars, so they really had to rely 384 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 1: on guerrilla marketing tactics. And they staged events that shopping 385 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 1: malls where they had two identical three two inch TV's 386 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 1: side by side, one with the first sixteen bit super 387 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 1: A ne s Mario Games, and the other was Sonic 388 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 1: on Sega Genesis, and they let the kids play and 389 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 1: make up their own mind. It's like the It's the 390 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 1: video game version of the taste test. It's really weird 391 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,400 Speaker 1: that after all the research and development, all the time 392 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 1: and money that went into this Sonics first appearance was 393 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,399 Speaker 1: not in Sonic One, but had sort of a soft 394 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: opening in an arcade game. Yeah, so a few months 395 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 1: before the game even comes out for home consoles, they 396 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 1: teased they it was like the mid credit scene in 397 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 1: a Marvel movie. Um, there's a coin operated arcade game 398 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 1: called rad Mobile, which the first person racing game, and 399 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,679 Speaker 1: you can actually see Sonic dangling from the review mirror 400 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 1: as like an air freshener or toy uh. And that 401 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 1: came out in arcades in January almost um, sixty months 402 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 1: before Sonic came out. And this game may be most 403 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 1: known to viewers of a certain generation as the game 404 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:55,880 Speaker 1: that Brendan Frasier plays in Encino Man. We mentioned earlier 405 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: that Sonic has its roots in the then novel notion 406 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: of this sprite moving around these loop de loops. But 407 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 1: this is wild Man. This whole game was designed from 408 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:13,440 Speaker 1: the jump to be super fast and super frustrating. Jordan's Yeah, 409 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 1: I mean from the beginning. Speed was the mantra for 410 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,959 Speaker 1: the developers working on Sonic, and the creator usually Naka, 411 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 1: apparently became fixated on this while playing Mario because in 412 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,400 Speaker 1: the early days of video games, you couldn't save your progress, 413 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 1: so you found yourself playing the first level or two 414 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,200 Speaker 1: over and over and over again, and he just wanted 415 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,199 Speaker 1: to speed through it to get back to where he was, 416 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:34,640 Speaker 1: and that gave him the drive to create a game 417 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 1: that you could just plow through in an insane rate. 418 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: And at the time of Sonics released, he was the 419 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,359 Speaker 1: fastest moving video game character ever created, and it was 420 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 1: even registered in the Guinness Book of World Records. And amazingly, 421 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 1: there was an earlier version of Sonic that had him 422 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:53,159 Speaker 1: moving even faster, but the game gave usually knock a 423 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,879 Speaker 1: motion sickness, so they toned it down. That was the 424 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,639 Speaker 1: upper threshold. They were like, well, it's finally making him 425 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,639 Speaker 1: physics clear. It's like the clockwork orangs they're having, like 426 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:07,919 Speaker 1: his eyes are strapped open. He's like faster, faster. They're like, 427 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 1: that's it. Shut it down. We found the upper threshold. 428 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,479 Speaker 1: And in the world of the game, he can move fast, 429 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 1: if not faster, than the speed of sounds ends his 430 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:21,120 Speaker 1: name Sonic, and that is seven sixty eight miles an hour. 431 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 1: But according to the lower of the game, the thing 432 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: that keeps him moving fast are his shoes. This is 433 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 1: my favorite. Thank you Jordan for not turning this over 434 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 1: to me. I'm just gonna take this because it fits 435 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 1: in with me disposition a lee. Um. Sonic doesn't like 436 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,199 Speaker 1: left being alone with his thoughts, as so many of 437 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 1: us uh do don't. And um if you ever sat 438 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,680 Speaker 1: the controller down and didn't pause and just kind of 439 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 1: left the game idle, he literally just jumps off the 440 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:55,159 Speaker 1: screen and saying, I'm out of here and you have 441 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:59,640 Speaker 1: to start the game over. I wonder if they're any 442 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 1: big uh Camu fans whether or not. Yeah, wow, this 443 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:14,359 Speaker 1: is getting dark, quick moving one. Speaking of ways of 444 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 1: Sonic offs himself, Sonic can't swim. He can run across 445 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: the surface of the water. Um. One of the many 446 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:26,879 Speaker 1: ways he's like Jesus, Yes, like the Christ uh. And 447 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,639 Speaker 1: that is because Eugenaka is under the mistaken impression that 448 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:33,119 Speaker 1: hedgehogs cannot swim. They actually can. They're actually quite agile 449 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 1: in the water. And it's one of the challenges that's 450 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: become baked into the franchises that Sonic does not like water. So, 451 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:42,919 Speaker 1: speaking of things that make the game difficult other than 452 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: Sonics death drive and water, um, it's the speed of 453 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,440 Speaker 1: the thing, man. But you got to get the ringing 454 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 1: noise whenever I swear, are you highlighting the phrase? The 455 00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:02,120 Speaker 1: hard is what makes it great? Sure? A monster? Uh? 456 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:08,320 Speaker 1: Like baseball? The hard is what makes Sonic great. Uh 457 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:10,960 Speaker 1: there's a I guess a video game critic, I don't 458 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 1: know that's a thing. Writing in The Guardian, Keith Stewart 459 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 1: noted that at the time, Sonic was a major departure 460 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 1: from game design, calling it both a masterpiece and incorrect, 461 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,919 Speaker 1: which I love. An incorrect masterpiece. The pace of this 462 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,880 Speaker 1: game forced players to learn through repetition rather than observation, 463 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: as the levels aren't designed to be seen or even 464 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 1: understood in one playthrough. Yeah, you, you don't actually get 465 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,399 Speaker 1: a chance to sit with this stuff. It's actually designed 466 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 1: to force you to do this as many times as 467 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:46,920 Speaker 1: possible into Yeah, exactly, get it into your muscle memory, 468 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:51,680 Speaker 1: because the second you slow down, Sonic kills himself. Um. 469 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean the game was obviously when it 470 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 1: comes out as a smash despite this difficulty level, and 471 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,159 Speaker 1: as with any video game, you start seeing record high scores, 472 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,160 Speaker 1: you start seeing these speed runs that are happening. One 473 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 1: of the speed run is there's a player named Foson 474 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:09,399 Speaker 1: who apparently beat the game in just under fifteen minutes 475 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:14,880 Speaker 1: fourteen fifty nine. That is insane high scores. Though, while 476 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 1: we're talking about high scores, the best verifiable one that 477 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,880 Speaker 1: Jordan found for US was Michael Strocca of the United States, 478 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 1: who broke the record not that long ago actually um 479 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 1: eight hundred, twelve thousand, one huty points, but not without controversy. Yes, 480 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: record may, yes, this record mayor sorry, yes, Marv Albert 481 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 1: over here. Yes, there's an unconfirmed report out there that 482 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 1: Stroka's record was broken in March of by Ruise Susa 483 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:56,120 Speaker 1: SUSA with a score of one million, five thousand, one 484 00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 1: eight points. Suspect that's doubling nearest record breaker. Yeah, I 485 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 1: I I question that. Well, it's like did you ever 486 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:09,040 Speaker 1: see The King of Kong? No? Oh man, that's a 487 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: that's one of the best little slice of life documentaries 488 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 1: about these guys who try and beat the Donkey Kong 489 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 1: Kind's score or like the pac Man high score, And 490 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,479 Speaker 1: it gets into a whole thing where they um, if 491 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 1: you're not playing on standard eyes, like if you're not 492 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,880 Speaker 1: playing on the same board, like the actual program board 493 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: of the console, your win is invalidated. So I do 494 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 1: wonder if if there's a way of standardizing that. I mean, 495 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 1: here's a question that I pre pre internet, when you 496 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 1: were playing a video game Cabinet in an arcade and 497 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 1: they would have the high scores. Were those high scores 498 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 1: just for that cab that I would assume so? Or 499 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 1: were they linked in some kind of I'm so glad 500 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 1: you asked, um. Twin Galaxies is the name of this. 501 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:56,960 Speaker 1: So this is a this is just a great move 502 00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 1: a movie. And we don't have time to get into 503 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 1: everything about this movie because basically follows these two guys, 504 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: Steve Weeby and Billy Mitchell, who are both battling for 505 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 1: the all time record in the arcade version of Donkey 506 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 1: Kong and the tertiary character in this is an organization 507 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: called Twin Galaxies that is basically the Ripley's the not 508 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 1: I guess Ripley is bad. They're more of the Guinness 509 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:24,960 Speaker 1: that they are dedicated to tracking and standardizing high scores 510 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 1: in video games, mostly focused on the Golden console age. 511 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 1: Right when would this have been? Like? What era were 512 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 1: they or are they still? The documentary came out in 513 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 1: two thousand seven, these are still this is a still 514 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 1: doing this. But the thing is is that this organization 515 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 1: twin galaxies. They send guys out to actually pull your 516 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 1: machine apart and look at the circuit board on it 517 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 1: to see if it's standard if it's similar to the 518 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 1: guy you're competing against. And I think in this one, 519 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:58,720 Speaker 1: um they actually find out that the one has been tampered, 520 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 1: so that invalidates the scores and this whole thing. Incidentally. 521 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 1: Watched it first of all, watch this documentary. It's a great, 522 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 1: wonderful little slice of life movie. The drama has continued 523 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 1: and I am not up on it, but I believe 524 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 1: it is still going. So I would wonder about these 525 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 1: high scores, how they're verified, If it's done on an emulator, 526 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 1: on like a home computer, if it's done in a genesis, 527 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 1: what generation of cartridges, what generation of console it is, 528 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:28,479 Speaker 1: how it's standardized. There's a whole world involved in this stuff, 529 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 1: so it's very interesting. Eat your heart out. So, I mean, 530 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 1: it sounds like in the early days in the pre Internet, 531 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 1: when there were scores on video game cabinet's that you know, 532 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 1: your your mal arcade or whatever, those were unique to 533 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 1: that cabinet. But then there'd be an organization that would 534 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 1: actually go tally them all and have somewhere. Uh wow, 535 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 1: that is very interesting. Yeah, it's wild, and I don't 536 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 1: have a good segue for that. Speaking of a different 537 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 1: kind of high score, the high score of Filthy Lucra 538 00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 1: Sonic was integral to Saga taking the majority of the 539 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 1: home video game market share. They took it from Nintendo 540 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 1: for the first time since huge win for Sega. Genesis 541 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 1: has out sold s n s IS two to one 542 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:16,959 Speaker 1: during season, and the original Sonic is still the platform's 543 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 1: best selling title Nintendo. Because you can't fight City Hall, 544 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 1: Nintendo took back the record eventually, very sad for those 545 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 1: of us who love the underdog. We're going to take 546 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 1: a quick break, but we'll be right back with more 547 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 1: too much information in just a moment. This is hilarious. 548 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 1: I love all this drama between exacts and the way 549 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,920 Speaker 1: that these guys are just different, Like this cowboy attitude 550 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 1: these guys had towards each other. At the Winter Consumer 551 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: Electronics Show, there's a Nintendo executive named Peter Maine who 552 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 1: is there at the Nintendo booth and he he was 553 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: playing with their their super Scope, which was that like 554 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 1: shoulder mounted light gun that you could use on the 555 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,960 Speaker 1: and he pointed it at Sega's booth, and he said this, 556 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:21,160 Speaker 1: this is rather perfect for hedgehog hunting, like a Viceroy 557 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 1: fox hunting and like John Pursy. Yeah. Sega's Alan Nelson 558 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 1: at one point would claim that Sonic was more recognizable 559 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:35,800 Speaker 1: among six to eleven year olds than Mickey Mouse. Um, 560 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 1: which is funny. It's just one of those like bits 561 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 1: of marketing hyperbole because he's cited data from a company 562 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 1: called Marketing Evaluations Incorporated, who would later decline to verify that. 563 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 1: So take that with a grain of salt. But um, regardless, 564 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:54,560 Speaker 1: there have been seventy million Sonic related games sold across 565 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:59,239 Speaker 1: the world based on seventy different Sonic related titles. So 566 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 1: even if you're doing that extremely like Math for Dummies breakdown, 567 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 1: that's a million copies of every Sonic game it is. 568 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 1: Obviously doesn't break down that way. But man, good for Sonic. 569 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:15,080 Speaker 1: I love an underdog. But despite all this success, Naka 570 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,920 Speaker 1: and Yashahira were both disappointed by their treatment from Sega. 571 00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:22,960 Speaker 1: Uh The corporation avoided crediting its game dev teams, partly 572 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,719 Speaker 1: out of fear that they depoached by their companies and 573 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:31,000 Speaker 1: usually not a quit. Eventually, joining uh the Sega Technical Institute, which, 574 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,080 Speaker 1: as you mentioned earlier, is basically like a think tank 575 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:37,680 Speaker 1: for Japanese and American developers, and uh Yeshiara also defected 576 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:41,240 Speaker 1: there too, but before they left, out of revenge, Naka 577 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,680 Speaker 1: secretly added a list of all the names responsible for 578 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,759 Speaker 1: Sonic and put them on a black intro screen for 579 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,440 Speaker 1: the game, and the text was also in black, so 580 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:52,680 Speaker 1: you couldn't see it unless you had the cheat code, 581 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:56,880 Speaker 1: so that nerds could basically recognize other nerds. And I 582 00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:00,840 Speaker 1: think that's beautiful, milk a toast form over and I 583 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,239 Speaker 1: love that. But yeah, this was you said. This is 584 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,320 Speaker 1: more common than people with might think. Yeah, this is 585 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 1: sort of a fairly standard practice for early Easter eggs. 586 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 1: The first ever video game Easter egg was for the 587 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:17,520 Speaker 1: nineteen nine game Adventure for the Atari, when a disgruntled 588 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:21,040 Speaker 1: employee added his own name to a secret room. So 589 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,520 Speaker 1: I guess there are quite a few like covert signatures 590 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 1: on these old retro games over the years. That was 591 00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 1: like a pretty standard way of like, you know, marking 592 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,920 Speaker 1: your territory, even when the bosses didn't want to actually 593 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,400 Speaker 1: give you real credit on like the box of the 594 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,360 Speaker 1: home screen, I love that. It's like if a mixing 595 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:40,359 Speaker 1: or mastering engineer was like, oh I did this, It's 596 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:42,400 Speaker 1: just like slips into the mix of your like your 597 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:48,080 Speaker 1: drum mix DJ Kali effect. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah exactly. 598 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:50,680 Speaker 1: It's like if Tom Dowald is recording all of this 599 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,400 Speaker 1: Ray Charles sides and like you get to like this 600 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 1: like the emotional peak of a Ray Charles ballad, and 601 00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,880 Speaker 1: then just offen the drum mic. You here, Tom Dowald 602 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 1: recorded this, What a granular bit we're doing now, um 603 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:12,799 Speaker 1: Sonics animated spinoff? That was good. That was good. He 604 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:20,000 Speaker 1: spent you gotta put the Sonic suicide noise in there here. Uh. 605 00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,000 Speaker 1: The animated spinoff actually has quite a pedigree. We mentioned 606 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:26,880 Speaker 1: Tom Kilinsky earlier, who, much like every other executive in 607 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,319 Speaker 1: the history of the world, his whole job was replicating 608 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:31,880 Speaker 1: success he had had at other jobs by doing the 609 00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:35,560 Speaker 1: same thing over again. He had been a Mattel the 610 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:40,000 Speaker 1: animated he Man series had juiced sales of the he 611 00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:43,320 Speaker 1: Man toy line, and so naturally, when he was at Sega, 612 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:48,560 Speaker 1: he pitched ABC an animated series based around Sonic. Sixty 613 00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,400 Speaker 1: five episodes of this were produced overseen by Ren and 614 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:56,960 Speaker 1: stimpy director Kent Butterworth, and Sonic was voiced by Jalil White, 615 00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 1: otherwise and indelibly known as Rkele on family Matters and 616 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:07,560 Speaker 1: moving into a considerably more three dimensional medium that of rubber. Yes, 617 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,280 Speaker 1: grander honors were still to come for Sonic. In November, 618 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,160 Speaker 1: Sonic the Hedgehog became the first video game character to 619 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:18,440 Speaker 1: have a balloon in the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade, paving 620 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 1: the way for the likes of Pikachu and Red from 621 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:26,240 Speaker 1: Angry Birds, but not Mario eat that Nintendo Oh, Italian 622 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:30,360 Speaker 1: Americans taken so many owls. Well, Mario might have dodged 623 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 1: the bullet here because unfortunately, the year that the Sonic 624 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,440 Speaker 1: balloon was unveiled, it was blown into a lamp post 625 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,279 Speaker 1: and the thing popped and it deflated and crashed to 626 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:45,719 Speaker 1: the ground like the footage of the Hindenburg and resulting 627 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:49,840 Speaker 1: in two injuries but thankfully no deaths. Al Rokers on 628 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:58,799 Speaker 1: the TV the dodgy over straight places the background. It 629 00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,880 Speaker 1: gets worse. Okay, this is this was This was Thanksgiving 630 00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:05,360 Speaker 1: three when it when it had its catastrophic debut. It 631 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:09,319 Speaker 1: was repaired and flown again the following year in when 632 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:14,160 Speaker 1: the same thing happened. It was smooth sailing for a 633 00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:16,800 Speaker 1: few more years, but then it hit yet another lamp 634 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:21,960 Speaker 1: post the third time, after which the balloon was retired. 635 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:24,200 Speaker 1: But there was a new balloon that was flown in 636 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:27,920 Speaker 1: for the characters twentieth anniversary, and as far as I'm aware, 637 00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:43,400 Speaker 1: that one didn't maim anybody. Um and just slowly deflating 638 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:48,000 Speaker 1: Sonic knocking over lamp posts and marching bands that have 639 00:38:48,160 --> 00:39:00,600 Speaker 1: flown in from Indianapolis single tier, some baton twirl or 640 00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:05,640 Speaker 1: some fleeing for cover. Oh good lord, Oh we're bad people, 641 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:11,279 Speaker 1: all right. The cast of Mama Mia run from out 642 00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:17,640 Speaker 1: front of Macy's, but from death to life. Because there's 643 00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:22,080 Speaker 1: a gene that has been named after Sonic, called, unimaginatively, 644 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 1: the sonic the hedgehog gene, which encodes a protein called, 645 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:31,120 Speaker 1: similarly unimaginedively sonic hedgehog. The function of this gene is 646 00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:37,880 Speaker 1: to regulate organ no genesis, organo genesis. Right, take that 647 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:43,160 Speaker 1: we have it. Who's our own staff, don't? Yeah? It 648 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,400 Speaker 1: controls the growth of limbs, digits, and the organization of 649 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:52,520 Speaker 1: the brain. Now this is really nerdy. I don't I 650 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:55,799 Speaker 1: don't know about genes Jordan's but I know that, but 651 00:39:55,880 --> 00:40:01,560 Speaker 1: I know what I like. Um genes can be inhibited 652 00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:05,880 Speaker 1: right that stops them from working. The inhibitor to the 653 00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:10,560 Speaker 1: hedgehog gene signaling pathway is called robot nick Nin because 654 00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:14,600 Speaker 1: he's the bad guy, right anybody bueler uh. It was 655 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:17,640 Speaker 1: named by a scientist called Robert Riddle, who was inspired 656 00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:19,960 Speaker 1: when his wife brought home a video game magazine in 657 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,120 Speaker 1: the early nineties with the sega ad in the back, 658 00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:25,840 Speaker 1: and scientists referred to this by the slightly more professional 659 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:29,799 Speaker 1: sounding acronym s h H. But is believed to be 660 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:33,879 Speaker 1: able to repair damaged hair cells, which in theory means 661 00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:37,319 Speaker 1: that Sonic the Hedgehog and his gene could be the 662 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,799 Speaker 1: cure for baldness, which would be his ultimate win over 663 00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:45,879 Speaker 1: robot nick A famously Wow, Yeah, see how I brought 664 00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:48,839 Speaker 1: that one back? Tied it back? That was good. This 665 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:52,279 Speaker 1: game has given us so much, but it could also 666 00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:56,320 Speaker 1: be blamed for some truly terrible things, namely the nineties 667 00:40:56,400 --> 00:41:00,680 Speaker 1: run on animals with attitude games, despite the fact that 668 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:04,160 Speaker 1: Sonic wasn't particularly attitudinal, if that's a word. In the 669 00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:08,239 Speaker 1: original game, his success spurred a gold rush of imitators 670 00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:13,560 Speaker 1: capitalizing on the quote Radical Animal Blueprint, including bubs E, 671 00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:19,120 Speaker 1: The Bobcat, GEX, the Get Go Dinosaur, Radical Rex, Bug, 672 00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:25,920 Speaker 1: The Bug, and Rocky Rodent. That one sounds fake, Rocky Raccoon. 673 00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:29,040 Speaker 1: I guess it has a precedent. Oh yeah. The Crash 674 00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:32,800 Speaker 1: Bandicoot dev team Naughty Dog consistently referenced Sonic is an influence, 675 00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:36,719 Speaker 1: even referring to it as quote Sonics asked game in 676 00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:40,200 Speaker 1: early stages, owing to the fact that the game sort 677 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:44,480 Speaker 1: of camera followed Bandicoot from behind. I guess that was 678 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:47,279 Speaker 1: a thing that really differentiated it from a lot of 679 00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:49,200 Speaker 1: those other video games was that you did see it 680 00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:51,960 Speaker 1: in a three sixty view as opposed to me Mario 681 00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:55,200 Speaker 1: being the initial example of it just being flat and 682 00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:58,080 Speaker 1: the Sonic. I guess it's also two D, but for 683 00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:01,200 Speaker 1: some reason, maybe it's better. Yeah, that's what they call 684 00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:03,839 Speaker 1: a side scroller. I don't know enough about video games 685 00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:09,000 Speaker 1: to know which. What had it been Mario? Maybe it 686 00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:12,640 Speaker 1: was one of the first three D ones. Folks. If 687 00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,640 Speaker 1: you'd like to correct any of our video game knowledge 688 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,799 Speaker 1: or miss numer's in here, please, tweeted us, using the 689 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:24,719 Speaker 1: hashtag Sonics ass game. But you know what game respects game. 690 00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:34,279 Speaker 1: Mario's creator Shieru Miyamoto said, I think Sega succeeded in 691 00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:38,439 Speaker 1: making a good, strong character. There are lots of games 692 00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:41,719 Speaker 1: that try to imitate Mario, but Sega did especially well 693 00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:45,120 Speaker 1: with Sonic. Despite his resemblance to Mario, there are some 694 00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:49,200 Speaker 1: special points that make him different. The energy, for example. 695 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:51,799 Speaker 1: I don't know what that means. Make of that what 696 00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:56,400 Speaker 1: you will, but he continued, Among Mario's imitations, Sonic is 697 00:42:56,440 --> 00:43:00,600 Speaker 1: a good one, and they finally came together in a 698 00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:04,560 Speaker 1: crossover Nintendo we game tied to the two th eight 699 00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:07,880 Speaker 1: Beijing Olympics with the slightly on original title Mario and 700 00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:10,960 Speaker 1: Sonic at the Olympic Games. And if that is not 701 00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:15,080 Speaker 1: a happy ending, what is? Isn't he also in? I 702 00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:17,840 Speaker 1: think he's in Smash Brothers? I think, well, yeah, I 703 00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:22,160 Speaker 1: think after that they made a Smash Brothers game too. Yes, yes, 704 00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:25,680 Speaker 1: that's true. So we're not gonna get too much into 705 00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:27,560 Speaker 1: the movies here because we're talking about the video game. 706 00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:30,120 Speaker 1: But we'd be were missing our duties if we didn't 707 00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:36,560 Speaker 1: talk about teeth Gate. Uh. When the Sonic the Hedgehog 708 00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:41,160 Speaker 1: big budget live action adaptation dropped, in uh what was this? 709 00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:47,080 Speaker 1: Fans were in an uproar, mostly because of his teeth. However, 710 00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:49,719 Speaker 1: they redesigned, reimagine the character for the movie. He fell 711 00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:52,160 Speaker 1: flat a number of ways. The first one was that 712 00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:55,239 Speaker 1: his teeth were too big and looked too human, and 713 00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:59,200 Speaker 1: there was this enormous outcry. Vulture has a great timeline 714 00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:02,280 Speaker 1: of this that goes all the way back to June, 715 00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:06,319 Speaker 1: which I am not going to get into. But they 716 00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:10,319 Speaker 1: put out a poster for this as a teaser in 717 00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:16,560 Speaker 1: December and it immediately meets with fury. People are just 718 00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:20,960 Speaker 1: not happy with it. Moving into April, a month later, 719 00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:24,960 Speaker 1: the trailer comes out and everyone is upset because Sonic 720 00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:32,120 Speaker 1: has human teeth, distressingly human teeth. I don't know, man, 721 00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:35,680 Speaker 1: do you remember being online for this? People flipped out 722 00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:38,920 Speaker 1: and it took them about let's see, this came out? 723 00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:40,640 Speaker 1: What did I just say? This came out in yeah, 724 00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:48,960 Speaker 1: a November they release a new trailer, bigger eyes, smaller teeth. 725 00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:54,960 Speaker 1: Here's my question. That seems like a really quick turnaround 726 00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:59,120 Speaker 1: time to completely redesign a character for an animated film. 727 00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:02,600 Speaker 1: I know, maybe in computer animation it's something that can 728 00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:05,320 Speaker 1: be done. You know, it's not like a regular animation, 729 00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:09,880 Speaker 1: traditional animation where you're going through fixing individual you know, cells, 730 00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:14,000 Speaker 1: But that seems quick. I almost wonder if, like, you know, 731 00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:16,920 Speaker 1: there's that conspiracy theory about New Coke. Have you heard this, 732 00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:19,680 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that they did it? Well, go ahead, yeah, 733 00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:21,680 Speaker 1: I think, I mean, stop me if I'm getting those wrong. 734 00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:24,319 Speaker 1: That New Coke they knew it was gonna bomb, but 735 00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:27,279 Speaker 1: they were gonna stop using sugar and start using corn 736 00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:32,040 Speaker 1: syrup instead in their classic formula. And so the whole 737 00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:34,040 Speaker 1: we're gonna make a new flavor, they knew it was 738 00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:36,080 Speaker 1: going to meet without cry. And then when they said, 739 00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:38,799 Speaker 1: all right, we're gonna give you back your old flavor, 740 00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,000 Speaker 1: it was gonna be in everyone's mind like, no, this 741 00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:43,480 Speaker 1: is the classic flavor, this is the original one, but 742 00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:46,920 Speaker 1: it was slightly different. It was used with cheaper ingredients 743 00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:49,759 Speaker 1: that did taste slightly different. That's why you get like 744 00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,359 Speaker 1: Mexican Coke now is used with original sugar, and that's 745 00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:54,600 Speaker 1: why that's like, you know, seen as this kind of 746 00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:58,120 Speaker 1: premium product. And this this whole conspiracy theory that they 747 00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:00,560 Speaker 1: knew New Coke was gonna bomb and was just to 748 00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:06,080 Speaker 1: like get people excited for the slightly crappier version of 749 00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:09,440 Speaker 1: the product that they've known forever. Is that my roughly 750 00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:14,200 Speaker 1: solving that story? Right? Ah, you're telling the story crack. 751 00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:16,680 Speaker 1: I don't know that this was necessarily how the Sonic 752 00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:20,080 Speaker 1: team did it. Maybe they were like, oh my god, 753 00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:23,080 Speaker 1: we've got to give people like get people passionate about 754 00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:26,319 Speaker 1: this by like screwing it up. So the producer of 755 00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:28,600 Speaker 1: both of the movies, because they just put out a second, 756 00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:31,480 Speaker 1: one guy named Neil maurits Uh. He gave an interview 757 00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:34,920 Speaker 1: to a podcast called The Town with Matthew Bologney, and 758 00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:38,080 Speaker 1: he basically said that we had an all hands on 759 00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:42,640 Speaker 1: deck meeting the next morning at Paramount. It took them 760 00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:46,200 Speaker 1: a day to be like, we fed up, but I mean, 761 00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:49,520 Speaker 1: do that ring noise there. I took them one day 762 00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:51,799 Speaker 1: and he said, we're going to take this character back 763 00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:54,279 Speaker 1: to what is loved, and we need X amount of 764 00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:56,600 Speaker 1: dollars to do this, and we need to delay the movie. 765 00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:59,279 Speaker 1: And he says, and I have to say Sega and 766 00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:04,200 Speaker 1: Paramount said, okay, you're right, which is I don't know 767 00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:08,040 Speaker 1: how many angry tweets they had to show Sega and Paramount, 768 00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:12,200 Speaker 1: but God love him. They took away his creepy human teeth, 769 00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:18,880 Speaker 1: and let's see how well. Let's see, Sonic the Hedgehog 770 00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:26,320 Speaker 1: original flavor has Tomato mater nine three audience score domestic 771 00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:30,160 Speaker 1: A hundred forty six million, three hundred and fifty five 772 00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:37,080 Speaker 1: million worldwide. Wow, So, folks, Sonic still has teeth, creepy 773 00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:40,680 Speaker 1: or not, there's money to be squeezed out of that 774 00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:48,360 Speaker 1: Hedgehogs still. Uh well, this conversation has been idle for 775 00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:51,920 Speaker 1: a while, so I'm out of here. That's right, It 776 00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:54,480 Speaker 1: is game over for us. Thank you so much for 777 00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:59,920 Speaker 1: listening to our wildly digressive conversation about Sonic the Hedgehog. 778 00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:02,680 Speaker 1: My name is Jordan Brown Tog and I'm Alex Tagele. 779 00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,840 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening, folks. We've no I didn't have anything, 780 00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:15,960 Speaker 1: and I'm Alec Tagle. Folks, thank you so much for listening. 781 00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:18,560 Speaker 1: This has been too much information. We'll talk to you 782 00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:22,080 Speaker 1: next time, will we. You'll hear us next time? Why 783 00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:25,600 Speaker 1: am I sucking at this right now? I am very 784 00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:29,040 Speaker 1: much enjoying it. You're enjoying it? Alright? Alright you say this, 785 00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:33,400 Speaker 1: you just gotta fade it out on DAI for straight 786 00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:39,400 Speaker 1: with me fumbling for a caker. Folks, this has been 787 00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:44,359 Speaker 1: too much information. Thank you for listening. We will catch 788 00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:49,240 Speaker 1: you on the flippity flop swinging swinging around the old 789 00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:54,759 Speaker 1: oak tree, this tied yellow ribbon around the cellar door, 790 00:48:55,120 --> 00:49:04,439 Speaker 1: and we'll see you at the Teddy Bears Picnic. Too 791 00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:07,080 Speaker 1: Much Information was a production of I Heart Radio. The 792 00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:10,239 Speaker 1: show's executive producers are Noel Brown and Jordan run Talk. 793 00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:13,640 Speaker 1: The supervising producer is Mike John's. The show was researched, 794 00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:16,480 Speaker 1: written and hosted by Jordan run Talk and Alex Heigel, 795 00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:19,880 Speaker 1: with original music by Seth Applebaum and the Ghost Funk Orchestra. 796 00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:22,400 Speaker 1: If you like what you heard, please subscribe and leave 797 00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:25,000 Speaker 1: us a review. For more podcasts and I heart Radio, 798 00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:28,160 Speaker 1: visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever 799 00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:29,480 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows