WEBVTT - #475 Jason Flom with Leslie Vass 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:07.360 On November two, nineteen seventy four, a Baltimore General store 0:00:07.400 --> 0:00:10.800 delivery man claimed that he was robbed by three armed men. 0:00:11.960 --> 0:00:14.320 When he and his co workers returned to the scene, 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:18.200 they saw the three alleged assailants drive off and reported 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:21.360 the license plate number to police, but when the car 0:00:21.440 --> 0:00:25.800 was pulled over, only two men were arrested, despite the 0:00:25.840 --> 0:00:29.920 protestations of his coworkers. The delivery driver later identified a 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:33.320 regular at the general store, seventeen year old Leslie Vass, 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:44.360 as the third assailant. But this is wrongful conviction. Wrongful 0:00:44.400 --> 0:00:47.360 conviction has always given voice to innocent people in prison, 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:51.000 and now we're expanding that voice to you. Call us 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:54.320 at eight three three two o seven four six sixty 0:00:54.360 --> 0:00:56.680 six and tell us how these stories make you feel 0:00:56.880 --> 0:00:59.279 and what you've done to help the cause, even if 0:00:59.320 --> 0:01:02.120 it's something a say boys, telling a friend or sharing 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:05.480 on social media, and you might just hear yourself in 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:08.920 a future episode. Call us A three three two o 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:21.760 seven four six sixty six. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction, 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:26.320 where we've got I believe the first wrongful conviction ever 0:01:26.480 --> 0:01:29.399 recognized by the State of Maryland, and it appears that 0:01:29.440 --> 0:01:32.720 at least some folks still have a problem with wiping 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:37.080 the slate clean once and for all. But before we 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:40.640 get into all that, let's introduce the man himself, Leslie 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:43.800 vas Leslie, thank you for sharing your story. 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:45.480 Thank you for lowing me. 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:47.400 It's an honor to have you here with us. So 0:01:47.600 --> 0:01:49.480 let's go back and start from the beginning. 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:53.120 I was born September seventh, nineteen fifty seven, and in 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:57.040 the South Forma area. My mom she moved up here 0:01:57.240 --> 0:02:01.480 to Maryland from Henderson, North Carolina. I never knew anything 0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:05.760 about a personal relationship with my father, whom I had 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:08.800 never met at that time. At the age of two 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:13.839 years old, my mom's had allowed my guard mother, Shirly Ray, 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:18.000 to take me and move to Brooklyn, New York, up 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:22.079 in bed Star Breevoid Projects Ben Star Do a Die. 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:25.400 I still remember that right, and I grew up there, 0:02:25.880 --> 0:02:29.720 attending school there, and in the summertime I would come 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:33.600 back here Baltimore. That went on for a period of time. 0:02:33.720 --> 0:02:36.680 When I was fifteen, I had actually come back to 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:40.320 Maryland to actually live with my mom. I moved into 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:44.320 the projects, but my weekends was spent at my grandfather's 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:48.320 house in the South Bahma area. So then we went 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:53.600 forth to me playing basketball. I really became sincere about it. 0:02:54.040 --> 0:02:56.480 When I was in junior high school. When the weather 0:02:56.680 --> 0:02:59.000 was bad, I was on the court. Right when the 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:01.440 weather was good, was on the court because I made 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:05.160 applants for myself. I wanted to excel Earl the Pearl, 0:03:05.800 --> 0:03:09.760 Walt Frasier, Western Cell and all that. That's the era 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:12.520 I grew up in, and that was my dream and 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:15.080 aspirations to really become the best. 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:17.560 The year that Leslie was arrested, he had won the 0:03:17.600 --> 0:03:22.280 city wide championship, and his skill gave him notoriety, including 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:25.040 at the neighborhood's social hub that became part of a 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:27.640 robbery investigation, the Westport Pharmacy. 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:31.360 It was the only store in that community had a 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:34.160 deli back in and back where people go sit down 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:37.560 with stools and stuff and eat and drink sodas and 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:40.120 all that kind of stuff. That's how this place was. 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:44.080 I come in that store regularly. I would remember going 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:47.800 in the back of the store and speaking to the 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:52.000 delivery drivers that I knew, Clarence mcclerk and Willie Adams. 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:54.360 Mister Clarence was like, Leslie, how many points are you 0:03:54.440 --> 0:03:56.320 gonna give him this week. I'm saying I don't know 0:03:56.320 --> 0:03:59.360 about thirty points right, laughing and joking. 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:03.000 In addition to Clarence McCleary and Willie Adams, another man, 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:06.160 Joseph Chester, did deliveries on the weekends when Leslie was 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:09.200 usually at his grandfather's house in another neighborhood, and on 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:13.960 one particular Saturday, November two, nineteen seventy four, Joseph Chester 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:15.160 claimed to have been robbed. 0:04:15.800 --> 0:04:18.360 I think it was supposed been around seven or something 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:21.680 in the evening. There was a call put into the 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:26.560 Westport Pharmacy for some kind of alcoholic beverages that they 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:31.080 wanted to deliver it at twenty seven o seven Spellman 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:34.359 Road on the second floor or something right. The delivery 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:37.400 driver supposed to said that when he pulled up, he 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:41.320 observed three men just lounging around outside. He said he 0:04:41.480 --> 0:04:44.160 went up the steps to the second floor and said 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:47.320 that whoever the lady was to answer the door, said 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:50.400 that she didn't call for a delivery. Said he turned 0:04:50.480 --> 0:04:55.320 around and come back downstairs. As he coming by the gods, 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:58.880 one of the guys stepped out and told him to 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:01.520 put his hands up. He said. The other guy put 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:04.200 a gun to his head. He said, the other guy 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:08.040 stood on the side and didn't say anything or do anything. 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:10.600 Then the guy that was supposed to be me with 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:13.400 the short cut haircut, took the money out of his 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:16.280 pocket and told him to get him his vehicle and 0:05:16.520 --> 0:05:20.120 drive off. He said he went down to the gas 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:24.080 station and called the robbery in. Then he called the 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:27.839 Westport pharmacy to let them know that he had been robbed. 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:32.839 Then mister Clarence in them. They met him over there, 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:36.760 and they sat outside of the building in mister Clarence 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:40.960 car and they waited and they watched three men who 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:44.520 the victim identified as being the people who robbed him, 0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:48.640 come out the building and get into this yellow volkswagon. 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:52.280 They followed it and used the phone to notify the 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:55.880 police and gave them the tag number. From the reports, 0:05:55.920 --> 0:05:59.920 it showed that the vehicle was stopped. Two of these 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:05.640 men were at the Balemas City drug program called Cash. 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:11.000 They came home on the weekend, committed the robbery and 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:13.520 were actually going back to the jail. 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:16.440 At the time of his trial, Leslie was unaware of 0:06:16.480 --> 0:06:19.679 this police report, and for some reason, the report only 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:23.520 documented these two of the three men Joseph Lewis White 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:24.480 and Claude Knight. 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:28.720 One man pled guilty got five years probation. The other 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:33.600 one was found guilty and given a five year consecutive 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:37.280 sentence to whatever sentence he was serving for a number charge. 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:40.200 But it's three of y'all that's supposed to have been 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:41.040 in his vehicle. 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:45.120 Leslie discovered the third man's identity unfortunately much later. So 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:48.719 three men were in the yellow volkswagon that night, none 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:51.240 of them were Leslie, and only two of them were 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:54.039 held accountable. And it appears that the alleged victim in 0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:57.279 this case, who had already id'd the third assailant in 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:00.960 front of his coworkers, may have used that third suspect 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:05.279 role to his own ends. On February fifteenth, nineteen seventy five. 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:08.320 My moms woke me up on a Saturday, told me, Leslie, 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:10.400 I want you to go to the store, get me 0:07:10.440 --> 0:07:13.560 a paper. I call in front of mine Harrison. They 0:07:13.600 --> 0:07:15.480 lived down the street from me, like a couple of 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:17.920 doors down, asking him did he want to walk over? 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:21.680 And we see the fellow who owns the place called Doc, 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:24.440 and I'm said, doctor, you got any papers? He said, 0:07:24.560 --> 0:07:27.920 go out front? They had a paper dispenser chained to 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:30.120 the poles. I went out there and got the paper. 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:33.200 As I turn around, I heard someone say, you with 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:36.000 the level coat on, go stand up against the wall. 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:38.840 I turn around and looking at a police officer with 0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:43.160 his gun pointed at us. I'm like, woo me. He said, dah. Now, 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:46.040 I'm a seventeen year old kid that ain't never been arrested. 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:48.480 This man put his gun to the back of my 0:07:48.600 --> 0:07:51.120 head and told me face that ball. I heard him 0:07:51.160 --> 0:07:53.720 saying something to somebody and I heard a voice say 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:57.200 it looks like him, and he said, well, you're under 0:07:57.240 --> 0:08:00.360 arrest for arm roby. I said, arm briby. I said, sir, 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:03.040 I just came up the store, asked doc. I said, 0:08:03.120 --> 0:08:06.800 mister Clarins, saying because I ain't robbed no store. He said, 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:11.480 shut up, you're under arrest. Tell it to the judge. Now. 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:16.280 I was undimpression that the robbery happened the day that 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:17.200 I was being. 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:20.480 Arrested, and that confusion may have been cleared up if 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:22.640 they held a hearing to bound his case over from 0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:25.720 juvenile court. But they just granted seventeen year old Leslie 0:08:25.760 --> 0:08:29.320 Bell released him to his mother and instructed him to 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:32.400 have no contact at all with the Westport pharmacy as 0:08:32.440 --> 0:08:34.480 he waited to be tried as an adult. 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:38.640 My mom's she entrusted my safety and well being to 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:43.000 an attorney by the name of robber Paul Conrad. I'll 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:46.000 never forget that name. When I went to see him 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:49.320 the first time, the only thing he said to me was, 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:52.640 did your mother send me an envelope? I said, sir, 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:56.000 I said, well, what about this case? Did these people 0:08:56.080 --> 0:08:59.480 talk about? I robbed the drug store? I said, I know, doctor, 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:03.080 don't worry about that. Let me deal with that. I 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:05.440 know how, but I'm doing I'm the lawyer. He never 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:09.160 gave me any information about the case whatsoever. 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:11.640 Including the date of the robbery, the details from the 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:14.400 police report, the identity of his two co defendants, Joe 0:09:14.440 --> 0:09:16.920 Louis White and Claude Knight, how Joseph Chester had I 0:09:17.000 --> 0:09:19.120 d'd the three assailants in front of the other deliverymen, 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:22.800 as well as how the third man's description simply didn't 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:27.160 match Leslie. He was older with short, cropped hair. Nothing 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:30.120 was shared that would have helped Leslie develop an alibi 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:33.440 defense for trial. On July second, nineteen seventy five. 0:09:33.840 --> 0:09:36.000 Now, I remember, I'm standing in the hallway and I 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:41.240 see Clarss mccluy and Willie Adams, the two drivers for 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:44.760 the Westport Pharmacy, and they're talking to a white guy 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:47.520 with a suit on who I found out was the 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:51.560 state's attorney and the case against me all right now, 0:09:51.600 --> 0:09:55.160 When they see me, they look around and they said, boy, 0:09:55.800 --> 0:09:58.200 what are you doing in here? I said they locked 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:01.920 me up, and said I robbed And the guy was 0:10:01.960 --> 0:10:04.320 still standing there and they turned around looked at him, 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:06.360 and he said, this kid wasn't the people that we 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:09.320 seeing in the car that ribed that man. And I'm 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:12.480 hearing this, but I don't understand none of it because 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:15.640 I don't know the essence of the story. So I 0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:18.240 remember the man said to them, y'all gonna be dismissed 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:23.560 as witnesses. So he was like, Leslie, something is wrong here. 0:10:23.840 --> 0:10:26.760 Who is your attorney? Now, as I'm saying that, he's 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:29.920 coming up the steps. Him and the white guy they 0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:33.880 start talking. Then he comes back over to me and 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:35.959 I said, sir, he said, I don't want to hear 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:38.640 none of that. He said, I told you don't talk 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:41.120 to anybody. You know. It's a lot of other things. 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:45.559 I learned about that attorney after I was convicted. Right, 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:49.120 come to find out the judge that my case was 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:53.079 before was a well known racist. 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:57.320 Leslie's hired attorney, Robert Conrad, advised him, a seventeen year 0:10:57.320 --> 0:10:59.480 old kid, to take a bench trial in front of 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:03.240 Judge same parat, while keeping him completely in the dark 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:05.960 about the evidence, including the star witness. 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:10.120 They called the case. Then they say the victim, Joseph 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:13.160 Frederick Chester. I'm like, who is that? And the lawyer 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:15.840 turns to me and say, that's the victim. You never 0:11:15.920 --> 0:11:19.000 seen the man that you charged with robbing? I said, man, 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:20.880 I said that man had me put my face through 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:23.319 the wall. I never turned around, I said, I ain't 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:25.160 never seen that man a day in my life. But 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:28.920 he was in the hallway watching me when I was 0:11:28.960 --> 0:11:32.160 walking home with mister Clarenson. I'm coming And mister Clarinson 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:35.240 then went to him and told him, you're wrong. He 0:11:35.320 --> 0:11:37.320 wasn't one of the people that was in that car 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:37.880 that night. 0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:43.080 Nevertheless, something had convinced Joseph Chester to again identify Leslie 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:44.120 as the third assailant. 0:11:44.400 --> 0:11:48.120 The victim testified that he was ribbed by three men 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:50.360 and that I was supposed to have been the man 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:54.079 that removed the money from his pocket. Another dude supposed 0:11:54.120 --> 0:11:56.360 to hell I got into his head, and the other 0:11:56.480 --> 0:11:59.360 guy just stood on the side. But all three of 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:02.199 us supposed been accompliced. I said, well, where they at 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:04.480 because I don't know them. They asked, do you know 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:06.880 a fellow by the name of Joe Lowis talking about 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:10.360 the boxer. No, it's a fellow named Joe Lewis that 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:13.000 was with you when you committed I said, I don't 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:16.200 know anyone named Joe Lawns, and I didn't commit this ribbery. Right, 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:20.000 My testimony was consistent to what I knew that had 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:25.520 happened up February fifteen, nineteen seventy five. I'm finding out 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:30.280 that the robbery happened in November. The state's attorney asked me, 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:34.640 where were you November two, nineteen seventy four. I said, 0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:37.600 I can't specifically say. I said, if it was a weekend, 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:40.280 then I probably was at my grandfather's house. 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:43.640 Then Leslie's attorney, Robert Conrad, I didn't call mister McCleary 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:46.880 or mister Adams to impeach the state's only witness, leaving 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:48.520 it all up to this judge. 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:53.600 The judge stated that he believed him over me, and 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:57.520 I looked at the attorney. He laughed. He looked at 0:12:57.520 --> 0:12:59.960 me and laughed, man, like the fuck It was fun, 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:02.920 you understand. And I was tripped on and I was like, 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:05.800 you did this? Man? You know that I had nothing 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:08.839 to do with this, and he was like, nigga, you're 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:10.560 gonna serve this twenty years. 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:24.760 You're listening to Ron for Conviction. You can listen to 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:27.400 this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one week 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:30.680 early and ed free by subscribing to Lava for Good 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:36.760 Plus on Apple Podcasts. 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:40.679 You laughed me up at the age of seventeen. I'm 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:43.600 in a massive security Maryland State pen attention where people 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:48.000 getting killed in the dining home. You understand people stabbing 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:51.720 each other, niggas raping other boys and all that kind 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:56.280 of stuff. While I'm in there, Death row is directly 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:59.960 above me. The guys on death row when the article 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:04.200 who came out about seventeen year old basketball star received 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:07.520 twenty years sentence, they must have followed sports when I 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:09.760 was out in the street, because when I come to 0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:12.600 the penchuchry guys who on death row taught me how 0:14:12.960 --> 0:14:16.760 to file for the freedom of information that I don't know, 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:20.400 just God, that I've been mistaken for who he is. 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:22.920 I don't know nothing about the people I was charged 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:27.080 with being co defenders too. And I stayed up at night. Man, 0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:30.600 my glasses is thick, all right. I stayed up at 0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:35.680 night reading constantly of what I need to understand about 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:41.240 the process regarding armed ribery, what it consisted of the essence, 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:45.160 the elements and all that. And I became very adept 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:47.440 with what I was doing, to the point I was 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:51.480 helping other individuals get out, get their sentence reduced. 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:54.880 And are to call Leslie's main issue an ineffective assistance 0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:58.880 of council claim is an insult, frankly to shitty lawyers. 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:04.280 It appears that Bob Conrad actually helped this judge convict Leslie. 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:07.800 Everybody claimed he was such a good attorney, but he 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:11.200 was only good for those that he wanted to work for. 0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:14.280 When it comes to people of color, he made it 0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:17.600 clear how he felt about them. This man was a 0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:23.040 well known racist individual. But when I fouled complaint against 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:28.480 him with the Attorney Grievans Commission, the Greevans Commission chairman 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:32.560 sent me a letter back saying, Bob Conrad has been 0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:35.560 a dear friend to me for years, and I do 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:39.440 not believe for you he's an honorary member of this 0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:43.480 Bark mission. I'm saying, well, if that's the case, then 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:46.640 you need to outside. This is somebody else to investigate, 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:49.880 because this ethical issue here for you. How can you 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:51.239 investigate yourself? 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:54.400 So there was no movement on the grievance or on 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:57.520 his initial appeals, but those four your requests turned up 0:15:57.520 --> 0:16:01.280 the police reports, which eventually led to the the co defendants. 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:05.000 This was the first time Leslie even knew about mister 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:08.240 McCleary and mister Adams taking out the apartment building with 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:11.440 mister Chester. This is when it finally made sense that 0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:13.880 they were witnesses to these three men who had gotten 0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:15.640 into the Yellow folkswagon that night. 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:20.119 But what gives me is that when the vihkuus stopped, 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:23.880 they lock up two people, they don't say nothing about 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:27.760 this third dude. Then I start hearing because of me 0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:31.200 being a basketball player, being young people who used to 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:34.480 live in that community that were in prison with me. 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:38.960 But said man Joe Louis got a buddy, Bucky Nutt 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:42.160 and Joe and Bucky Nutt are rat buddies. They was 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:45.600 on charges together. A guy came to me in the 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:49.920 Maryland House Correction and Jessa. He said, my half brother 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:53.840 Bucky is the one that people mistake you for. So 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:57.960 he started telling me about the robbery the girl that 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:02.240 lived in the apartment bend them being outside the apartment 0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:04.679 waiting for the guy to come to make the delivery. 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:07.440 Then he says, Bucky and them they had been doing 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:11.800 this before. From what I was getting was the possibility 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:14.879 that they were pretending that they were robbing people, and 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:17.840 they probably took the delivery drivers money from him and 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:19.360 they beat him out of it. 0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:22.560 It appears that not only was Joseph Chester potentially involved 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:25.760 with his alliged assailants, but also something else made him 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:30.880 both a disgusting human being and specially vulnerable to police coercion. 0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:34.200 Come to find out, he liked young girls, and one 0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:36.840 of the young girls that he really liked was a 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:41.359 girl that my mother was friends with. Her mother. My 0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:45.000 mother said that she was in that lady's house playing 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:48.159 cards on the weekend when the victim came in to 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:52.120 make deliveries and they got into a confrontation. She told 0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:54.720 the ladies. She said, this is the man that said 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:57.879 Leslie robbed him, and she was like, well, he messed 0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:02.000 with my daughter, Dina din know younger than Leslie. 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:05.720 It appears there were multiple angles by which Joseph Chester's 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:09.240 identification of Leslie could have been engineered, while Bucky Nutt 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:13.600 aka Charles Parker was the actual third assailant. So while 0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:16.520 Leslie continued his fight, he was offered a work release 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:19.480 program and a pathway to parole. In nineteen eighty two. 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:23.200 They take me to pre release. It's in Balima City. 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:26.199 They give me a push brum and they tell me 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:28.640 to sweep from this. 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:31.560 Corner all the way down. 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:35.400 There to that corner right and I said, the officer 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:38.600 gonna be with me. No, Leslie uent pre release. You 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:41.359 ain't got worried about that no more. I couldn't wait 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:44.480 till the morning, okay, a guy on the farm. I 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:46.840 made a couple of phone calls and some people that 0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:49.800 I knew. I needed a bus ticket for New York. 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:53.080 You understand, it was about eight thirty in the morning 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:55.720 when they gave me that brum. They said they checked 0:18:55.720 --> 0:18:58.320 out there at twelve o'clock. They didn't see me they 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:01.080 found that broom down there, lane up against the wall, 0:19:02.560 --> 0:19:03.479 and I was gone. 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:08.680 So Leslie escaped, but before boarding a bust in New York, 0:19:08.960 --> 0:19:10.719 he made a stop in Baltimore. 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:16.440 I went to where the fellow Joe Lord's sister lived there, 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:19.000 and I explained to her that I was the kid 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:23.040 that had gotten locked up for Bucky nutt Right. And 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:26.520 she explains to me that Bucky was working with the police. 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:30.040 He said, that's why they never locked him up. This 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:32.359 woman sat and explaining some stuff to me. I said 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:34.920 to myself, I don't know if I can believe everything 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:38.800 this woman's saying, but everything she said to me proved 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:40.920 factly because I checked everything. 0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:43.880 After a six month stint of freedom in New York, 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:46.600 he was discovered when he returned to visit family in 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:48.080 Baltimore for the holidays. 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:52.280 I notified the state about the identification the problem, and 0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:56.480 all they take a year and a half to send 0:19:56.560 --> 0:20:00.760 somebody out to the victim, and he positively identify as 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:04.679 a Bucky nutt Right, saying that the man on the 0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:08.800 picture even still had the same shirt on that he 0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:12.159 had on when they committed the robbery. So there's a 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:17.000 new State's attorney in Baltimore that's just been elected, and 0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:20.800 everybody had high hopes that this man was an African 0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:25.840 American man and he would be more understanding of the 0:20:26.080 --> 0:20:29.560 racial issues that was faced with us all these years 0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:32.800 and all that His name was Kurt Smokes, right. I 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:36.240 wrote him from the MARYW House Correction asking him to 0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:38.679 please take a look at my case. He wrote me 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:46.120 back no. When the victim positively identified the photograph, then 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:48.960 they contact me and said they would be willing to 0:20:49.040 --> 0:20:52.480 release me if I accepted a deal to plead no 0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:57.040 low contender to one count in exchange for just being released. 0:20:57.240 --> 0:21:00.000 I same, I'm not taking no deal. Man. Took them 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:02.040 another year and a half for me to get out. 0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:05.480 Kurt Schmoke not only became the mayor of Baltimore, but 0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:09.240 then also the dean of Howard University Law School, followed 0:21:09.240 --> 0:21:12.000 by the president of the University of Baltimore and a 0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:14.919 part owner of the Baltimore Orioles. It's hard to square 0:21:14.960 --> 0:21:19.680 all of that with Leslie's experience, but nevertheless, Leslie was released. 0:21:20.119 --> 0:21:25.359 I got released October the seventeenth, nineteen eighty four, and 0:21:25.920 --> 0:21:29.439 before I even had to hear and I had written 0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:31.560 to the judge and told them about the deal that 0:21:31.640 --> 0:21:34.399 they tried to force me to accept. And they told 0:21:34.440 --> 0:21:37.439 me that the judge and Smokes was best friends and 0:21:37.480 --> 0:21:41.720 they were fraternity brothers, and if I didn't accept the deal, 0:21:42.200 --> 0:21:46.280 he was gonna have to judge dismiss my petition based 0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:49.840 on the original in court identification that was made by 0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:53.200 the victim. Then he threatened the victim and told him, 0:21:53.240 --> 0:21:55.960 if you don't say it was Leslie's, we're gonna charge 0:21:56.000 --> 0:22:00.679 you with perjury from your original in court out therefication. 0:22:16.720 --> 0:22:19.720 While in prison, I had been earning credits and all 0:22:19.840 --> 0:22:23.159 towards my bachelor's First I got my bachelor's degree in 0:22:23.200 --> 0:22:27.520 sociology from Tawson State University. I then got my certification 0:22:27.640 --> 0:22:30.920 as a prior legal right Now. In nineteen eighty six, 0:22:31.040 --> 0:22:35.800 I got a full unconditional pardon from Governor Harria Hughes. 0:22:35.920 --> 0:22:39.119 I got a court order that all records relating to 0:22:39.200 --> 0:22:41.760 that conviction was supposed to been destroyed. That was the 0:22:41.840 --> 0:22:45.680 first expansiment order. That was May of nineteen eighty six. 0:22:46.119 --> 0:22:48.639 The clerk of the court, when I tried to have 0:22:48.880 --> 0:22:51.919 them enforce it, he told me that he think the 0:22:52.000 --> 0:22:54.680 judge made a mistake and he wasn't putting no order through, 0:22:55.160 --> 0:22:59.320 so it sat dormant in their office. Everybody I went 0:22:59.440 --> 0:23:02.679 to get help in regard to it would never help me. 0:23:03.080 --> 0:23:05.520 And it appears that this one clerk's in action has 0:23:05.600 --> 0:23:09.800 repeatedly reared its ugly head multiple times throughout Lesley's life. 0:23:09.920 --> 0:23:11.720 But for now, there were other fights to win. 0:23:12.000 --> 0:23:15.560 You have to remember during that time, they didn't believe 0:23:15.800 --> 0:23:20.600 that ronful convictions happened. I petitioned the state for compensation. 0:23:21.000 --> 0:23:24.040 I had no alterney. I did interviews with the news 0:23:24.119 --> 0:23:27.000