1 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: On November two, nineteen seventy four, a Baltimore General store 2 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:10,800 Speaker 1: delivery man claimed that he was robbed by three armed men. 3 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:14,320 Speaker 1: When he and his co workers returned to the scene, 4 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 1: they saw the three alleged assailants drive off and reported 5 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: the license plate number to police, but when the car 6 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: was pulled over, only two men were arrested, despite the 7 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 1: protestations of his coworkers. The delivery driver later identified a 8 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: regular at the general store, seventeen year old Leslie Vass, 9 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: as the third assailant. But this is wrongful conviction. Wrongful 10 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: conviction has always given voice to innocent people in prison, 11 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: and now we're expanding that voice to you. Call us 12 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: at eight three three two o seven four six sixty 13 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 1: six and tell us how these stories make you feel 14 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:59,279 Speaker 1: and what you've done to help the cause, even if 15 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 1: it's something a say boys, telling a friend or sharing 16 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 1: on social media, and you might just hear yourself in 17 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: a future episode. Call us A three three two o 18 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 1: seven four six sixty six. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction, 19 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 1: where we've got I believe the first wrongful conviction ever 20 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,399 Speaker 1: recognized by the State of Maryland, and it appears that 21 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: at least some folks still have a problem with wiping 22 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: the slate clean once and for all. But before we 23 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: get into all that, let's introduce the man himself, Leslie 24 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: vas Leslie, thank you for sharing your story. 25 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 2: Thank you for lowing me. 26 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: It's an honor to have you here with us. So 27 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: let's go back and start from the beginning. 28 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 2: I was born September seventh, nineteen fifty seven, and in 29 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 2: the South Forma area. My mom she moved up here 30 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 2: to Maryland from Henderson, North Carolina. I never knew anything 31 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 2: about a personal relationship with my father, whom I had 32 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 2: never met at that time. At the age of two 33 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:13,839 Speaker 2: years old, my mom's had allowed my guard mother, Shirly Ray, 34 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 2: to take me and move to Brooklyn, New York, up 35 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:22,079 Speaker 2: in bed Star Breevoid Projects Ben Star Do a Die. 36 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 2: I still remember that right, and I grew up there, 37 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 2: attending school there, and in the summertime I would come 38 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 2: back here Baltimore. That went on for a period of time. 39 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 2: When I was fifteen, I had actually come back to 40 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 2: Maryland to actually live with my mom. I moved into 41 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 2: the projects, but my weekends was spent at my grandfather's 42 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 2: house in the South Bahma area. So then we went 43 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 2: forth to me playing basketball. I really became sincere about it. 44 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 2: When I was in junior high school. When the weather 45 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 2: was bad, I was on the court. Right when the 46 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 2: weather was good, was on the court because I made 47 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 2: applants for myself. I wanted to excel Earl the Pearl, 48 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 2: Walt Frasier, Western Cell and all that. That's the era 49 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 2: I grew up in, and that was my dream and 50 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 2: aspirations to really become the best. 51 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: The year that Leslie was arrested, he had won the 52 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: city wide championship, and his skill gave him notoriety, including 53 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: at the neighborhood's social hub that became part of a 54 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 1: robbery investigation, the Westport Pharmacy. 55 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 2: It was the only store in that community had a 56 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 2: deli back in and back where people go sit down 57 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 2: with stools and stuff and eat and drink sodas and 58 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff. That's how this place was. 59 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 2: I come in that store regularly. I would remember going 60 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 2: in the back of the store and speaking to the 61 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 2: delivery drivers that I knew, Clarence mcclerk and Willie Adams. 62 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 2: Mister Clarence was like, Leslie, how many points are you 63 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 2: gonna give him this week. I'm saying I don't know 64 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 2: about thirty points right, laughing and joking. 65 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: In addition to Clarence McCleary and Willie Adams, another man, 66 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: Joseph Chester, did deliveries on the weekends when Leslie was 67 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 1: usually at his grandfather's house in another neighborhood, and on 68 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: one particular Saturday, November two, nineteen seventy four, Joseph Chester 69 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: claimed to have been robbed. 70 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 2: I think it was supposed been around seven or something 71 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 2: in the evening. There was a call put into the 72 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 2: Westport Pharmacy for some kind of alcoholic beverages that they 73 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 2: wanted to deliver it at twenty seven o seven Spellman 74 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,359 Speaker 2: Road on the second floor or something right. The delivery 75 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 2: driver supposed to said that when he pulled up, he 76 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 2: observed three men just lounging around outside. He said he 77 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,160 Speaker 2: went up the steps to the second floor and said 78 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 2: that whoever the lady was to answer the door, said 79 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 2: that she didn't call for a delivery. Said he turned 80 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 2: around and come back downstairs. As he coming by the gods, 81 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 2: one of the guys stepped out and told him to 82 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 2: put his hands up. He said. The other guy put 83 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 2: a gun to his head. He said, the other guy 84 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 2: stood on the side and didn't say anything or do anything. 85 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:10,600 Speaker 2: Then the guy that was supposed to be me with 86 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 2: the short cut haircut, took the money out of his 87 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:16,280 Speaker 2: pocket and told him to get him his vehicle and 88 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 2: drive off. He said he went down to the gas 89 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 2: station and called the robbery in. Then he called the 90 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 2: Westport pharmacy to let them know that he had been robbed. 91 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 2: Then mister Clarence in them. They met him over there, 92 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 2: and they sat outside of the building in mister Clarence 93 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 2: car and they waited and they watched three men who 94 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 2: the victim identified as being the people who robbed him, 95 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 2: come out the building and get into this yellow volkswagon. 96 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,280 Speaker 2: They followed it and used the phone to notify the 97 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 2: police and gave them the tag number. From the reports, 98 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 2: it showed that the vehicle was stopped. Two of these 99 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 2: men were at the Balemas City drug program called Cash. 100 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 2: They came home on the weekend, committed the robbery and 101 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 2: were actually going back to the jail. 102 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 1: At the time of his trial, Leslie was unaware of 103 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:19,679 Speaker 1: this police report, and for some reason, the report only 104 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 1: documented these two of the three men Joseph Lewis White 105 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:24,480 Speaker 1: and Claude Knight. 106 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:28,720 Speaker 2: One man pled guilty got five years probation. The other 107 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 2: one was found guilty and given a five year consecutive 108 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:37,280 Speaker 2: sentence to whatever sentence he was serving for a number charge. 109 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 2: But it's three of y'all that's supposed to have been 110 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 2: in his vehicle. 111 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 1: Leslie discovered the third man's identity unfortunately much later. So 112 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:48,719 Speaker 1: three men were in the yellow volkswagon that night, none 113 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: of them were Leslie, and only two of them were 114 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:54,039 Speaker 1: held accountable. And it appears that the alleged victim in 115 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 1: this case, who had already id'd the third assailant in 116 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: front of his coworkers, may have used that third suspect 117 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:05,279 Speaker 1: role to his own ends. On February fifteenth, nineteen seventy five. 118 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 2: My moms woke me up on a Saturday, told me, Leslie, 119 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 2: I want you to go to the store, get me 120 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 2: a paper. I call in front of mine Harrison. They 121 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 2: lived down the street from me, like a couple of 122 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 2: doors down, asking him did he want to walk over? 123 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 2: And we see the fellow who owns the place called Doc, 124 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 2: and I'm said, doctor, you got any papers? He said, 125 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 2: go out front? They had a paper dispenser chained to 126 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 2: the poles. I went out there and got the paper. 127 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 2: As I turn around, I heard someone say, you with 128 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 2: the level coat on, go stand up against the wall. 129 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 2: I turn around and looking at a police officer with 130 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 2: his gun pointed at us. I'm like, woo me. He said, dah. Now, 131 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 2: I'm a seventeen year old kid that ain't never been arrested. 132 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 2: This man put his gun to the back of my 133 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 2: head and told me face that ball. I heard him 134 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 2: saying something to somebody and I heard a voice say 135 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 2: it looks like him, and he said, well, you're under 136 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 2: arrest for arm roby. I said, arm briby. I said, sir, 137 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 2: I just came up the store, asked doc. I said, 138 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 2: mister Clarins, saying because I ain't robbed no store. He said, 139 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 2: shut up, you're under arrest. Tell it to the judge. Now. 140 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 2: I was undimpression that the robbery happened the day that 141 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 2: I was being. 142 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 1: Arrested, and that confusion may have been cleared up if 143 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: they held a hearing to bound his case over from 144 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: juvenile court. But they just granted seventeen year old Leslie 145 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: Bell released him to his mother and instructed him to 146 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: have no contact at all with the Westport pharmacy as 147 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: he waited to be tried as an adult. 148 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 2: My mom's she entrusted my safety and well being to 149 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 2: an attorney by the name of robber Paul Conrad. I'll 150 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 2: never forget that name. When I went to see him 151 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 2: the first time, the only thing he said to me was, 152 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 2: did your mother send me an envelope? I said, sir, 153 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 2: I said, well, what about this case? Did these people 154 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 2: talk about? I robbed the drug store? I said, I know, doctor, 155 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 2: don't worry about that. Let me deal with that. I 156 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 2: know how, but I'm doing I'm the lawyer. He never 157 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 2: gave me any information about the case whatsoever. 158 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 1: Including the date of the robbery, the details from the 159 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 1: police report, the identity of his two co defendants, Joe 160 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: Louis White and Claude Knight, how Joseph Chester had I 161 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 1: d'd the three assailants in front of the other deliverymen, 162 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: as well as how the third man's description simply didn't 163 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: match Leslie. He was older with short, cropped hair. Nothing 164 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: was shared that would have helped Leslie develop an alibi 165 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 1: defense for trial. On July second, nineteen seventy five. 166 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 2: Now, I remember, I'm standing in the hallway and I 167 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 2: see Clarss mccluy and Willie Adams, the two drivers for 168 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 2: the Westport Pharmacy, and they're talking to a white guy 169 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 2: with a suit on who I found out was the 170 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 2: state's attorney and the case against me all right now, 171 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 2: When they see me, they look around and they said, boy, 172 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:58,200 Speaker 2: what are you doing in here? I said they locked 173 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 2: me up, and said I robbed And the guy was 174 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 2: still standing there and they turned around looked at him, 175 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 2: and he said, this kid wasn't the people that we 176 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 2: seeing in the car that ribed that man. And I'm 177 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 2: hearing this, but I don't understand none of it because 178 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 2: I don't know the essence of the story. So I 179 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 2: remember the man said to them, y'all gonna be dismissed 180 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 2: as witnesses. So he was like, Leslie, something is wrong here. 181 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 2: Who is your attorney? Now, as I'm saying that, he's 182 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 2: coming up the steps. Him and the white guy they 183 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 2: start talking. Then he comes back over to me and 184 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:35,959 Speaker 2: I said, sir, he said, I don't want to hear 185 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 2: none of that. He said, I told you don't talk 186 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 2: to anybody. You know. It's a lot of other things. 187 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:45,559 Speaker 2: I learned about that attorney after I was convicted. Right, 188 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 2: come to find out the judge that my case was 189 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:53,079 Speaker 2: before was a well known racist. 190 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: Leslie's hired attorney, Robert Conrad, advised him, a seventeen year 191 00:10:57,320 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 1: old kid, to take a bench trial in front of 192 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: Judge same parat, while keeping him completely in the dark 193 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 1: about the evidence, including the star witness. 194 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 2: They called the case. Then they say the victim, Joseph 195 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 2: Frederick Chester. I'm like, who is that? And the lawyer 196 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 2: turns to me and say, that's the victim. You never 197 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 2: seen the man that you charged with robbing? I said, man, 198 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 2: I said that man had me put my face through 199 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:23,319 Speaker 2: the wall. I never turned around, I said, I ain't 200 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 2: never seen that man a day in my life. But 201 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 2: he was in the hallway watching me when I was 202 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 2: walking home with mister Clarenson. I'm coming And mister Clarinson 203 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 2: then went to him and told him, you're wrong. He 204 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 2: wasn't one of the people that was in that car 205 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 2: that night. 206 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 1: Nevertheless, something had convinced Joseph Chester to again identify Leslie 207 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: as the third assailant. 208 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 2: The victim testified that he was ribbed by three men 209 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 2: and that I was supposed to have been the man 210 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:54,079 Speaker 2: that removed the money from his pocket. Another dude supposed 211 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 2: to hell I got into his head, and the other 212 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 2: guy just stood on the side. But all three of 213 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:02,199 Speaker 2: us supposed been accompliced. I said, well, where they at 214 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 2: because I don't know them. They asked, do you know 215 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 2: a fellow by the name of Joe Lowis talking about 216 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 2: the boxer. No, it's a fellow named Joe Lewis that 217 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 2: was with you when you committed I said, I don't 218 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 2: know anyone named Joe Lawns, and I didn't commit this ribbery. Right, 219 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 2: My testimony was consistent to what I knew that had 220 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 2: happened up February fifteen, nineteen seventy five. I'm finding out 221 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 2: that the robbery happened in November. The state's attorney asked me, 222 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 2: where were you November two, nineteen seventy four. I said, 223 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 2: I can't specifically say. I said, if it was a weekend, 224 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 2: then I probably was at my grandfather's house. 225 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 1: Then Leslie's attorney, Robert Conrad, I didn't call mister McCleary 226 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: or mister Adams to impeach the state's only witness, leaving 227 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: it all up to this judge. 228 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 2: The judge stated that he believed him over me, and 229 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 2: I looked at the attorney. He laughed. He looked at 230 00:12:57,520 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 2: me and laughed, man, like the fuck It was fun, 231 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 2: you understand. And I was tripped on and I was like, 232 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 2: you did this? Man? You know that I had nothing 233 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:08,839 Speaker 2: to do with this, and he was like, nigga, you're 234 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:10,560 Speaker 2: gonna serve this twenty years. 235 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 1: You're listening to Ron for Conviction. You can listen to 236 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one week 237 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 1: early and ed free by subscribing to Lava for Good 238 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 1: Plus on Apple Podcasts. 239 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:40,679 Speaker 2: You laughed me up at the age of seventeen. I'm 240 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 2: in a massive security Maryland State pen attention where people 241 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 2: getting killed in the dining home. You understand people stabbing 242 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 2: each other, niggas raping other boys and all that kind 243 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 2: of stuff. While I'm in there, Death row is directly 244 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 2: above me. The guys on death row when the article 245 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:04,200 Speaker 2: who came out about seventeen year old basketball star received 246 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 2: twenty years sentence, they must have followed sports when I 247 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 2: was out in the street, because when I come to 248 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 2: the penchuchry guys who on death row taught me how 249 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 2: to file for the freedom of information that I don't know, 250 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 2: just God, that I've been mistaken for who he is. 251 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 2: I don't know nothing about the people I was charged 252 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 2: with being co defenders too. And I stayed up at night. Man, 253 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 2: my glasses is thick, all right. I stayed up at 254 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 2: night reading constantly of what I need to understand about 255 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 2: the process regarding armed ribery, what it consisted of the essence, 256 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 2: the elements and all that. And I became very adept 257 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 2: with what I was doing, to the point I was 258 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 2: helping other individuals get out, get their sentence reduced. 259 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: And are to call Leslie's main issue an ineffective assistance 260 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 1: of council claim is an insult, frankly to shitty lawyers. 261 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 1: It appears that Bob Conrad actually helped this judge convict Leslie. 262 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 2: Everybody claimed he was such a good attorney, but he 263 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 2: was only good for those that he wanted to work for. 264 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 2: When it comes to people of color, he made it 265 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 2: clear how he felt about them. This man was a 266 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 2: well known racist individual. But when I fouled complaint against 267 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 2: him with the Attorney Grievans Commission, the Greevans Commission chairman 268 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 2: sent me a letter back saying, Bob Conrad has been 269 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 2: a dear friend to me for years, and I do 270 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 2: not believe for you he's an honorary member of this 271 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 2: Bark mission. I'm saying, well, if that's the case, then 272 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 2: you need to outside. This is somebody else to investigate, 273 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 2: because this ethical issue here for you. How can you 274 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:51,239 Speaker 2: investigate yourself? 275 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: So there was no movement on the grievance or on 276 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 1: his initial appeals, but those four your requests turned up 277 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 1: the police reports, which eventually led to the the co defendants. 278 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: This was the first time Leslie even knew about mister 279 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 1: McCleary and mister Adams taking out the apartment building with 280 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: mister Chester. This is when it finally made sense that 281 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: they were witnesses to these three men who had gotten 282 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: into the Yellow folkswagon that night. 283 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:20,119 Speaker 2: But what gives me is that when the vihkuus stopped, 284 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 2: they lock up two people, they don't say nothing about 285 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 2: this third dude. Then I start hearing because of me 286 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 2: being a basketball player, being young people who used to 287 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 2: live in that community that were in prison with me. 288 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 2: But said man Joe Louis got a buddy, Bucky Nutt 289 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 2: and Joe and Bucky Nutt are rat buddies. They was 290 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 2: on charges together. A guy came to me in the 291 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 2: Maryland House Correction and Jessa. He said, my half brother 292 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 2: Bucky is the one that people mistake you for. So 293 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 2: he started telling me about the robbery the girl that 294 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 2: lived in the apartment bend them being outside the apartment 295 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:04,679 Speaker 2: waiting for the guy to come to make the delivery. 296 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:07,440 Speaker 2: Then he says, Bucky and them they had been doing 297 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 2: this before. From what I was getting was the possibility 298 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:14,879 Speaker 2: that they were pretending that they were robbing people, and 299 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 2: they probably took the delivery drivers money from him and 300 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:19,360 Speaker 2: they beat him out of it. 301 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 1: It appears that not only was Joseph Chester potentially involved 302 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 1: with his alliged assailants, but also something else made him 303 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:30,880 Speaker 1: both a disgusting human being and specially vulnerable to police coercion. 304 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 2: Come to find out, he liked young girls, and one 305 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 2: of the young girls that he really liked was a 306 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:41,359 Speaker 2: girl that my mother was friends with. Her mother. My 307 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 2: mother said that she was in that lady's house playing 308 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:48,159 Speaker 2: cards on the weekend when the victim came in to 309 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:52,120 Speaker 2: make deliveries and they got into a confrontation. She told 310 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 2: the ladies. She said, this is the man that said 311 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 2: Leslie robbed him, and she was like, well, he messed 312 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 2: with my daughter, Dina din know younger than Leslie. 313 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,720 Speaker 1: It appears there were multiple angles by which Joseph Chester's 314 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 1: identification of Leslie could have been engineered, while Bucky Nutt 315 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: aka Charles Parker was the actual third assailant. So while 316 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 1: Leslie continued his fight, he was offered a work release 317 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 1: program and a pathway to parole. In nineteen eighty two. 318 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:23,200 Speaker 2: They take me to pre release. It's in Balima City. 319 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:26,199 Speaker 2: They give me a push brum and they tell me 320 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:28,640 Speaker 2: to sweep from this. 321 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 1: Corner all the way down. 322 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:35,400 Speaker 2: There to that corner right and I said, the officer 323 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 2: gonna be with me. No, Leslie uent pre release. You 324 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 2: ain't got worried about that no more. I couldn't wait 325 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 2: till the morning, okay, a guy on the farm. I 326 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 2: made a couple of phone calls and some people that 327 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 2: I knew. I needed a bus ticket for New York. 328 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 2: You understand, it was about eight thirty in the morning 329 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 2: when they gave me that brum. They said they checked 330 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 2: out there at twelve o'clock. They didn't see me they 331 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 2: found that broom down there, lane up against the wall, 332 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:03,479 Speaker 2: and I was gone. 333 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 1: So Leslie escaped, but before boarding a bust in New York, 334 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:10,719 Speaker 1: he made a stop in Baltimore. 335 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:16,440 Speaker 2: I went to where the fellow Joe Lord's sister lived there, 336 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 2: and I explained to her that I was the kid 337 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 2: that had gotten locked up for Bucky nutt Right. And 338 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 2: she explains to me that Bucky was working with the police. 339 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 2: He said, that's why they never locked him up. This 340 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 2: woman sat and explaining some stuff to me. I said 341 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,920 Speaker 2: to myself, I don't know if I can believe everything 342 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 2: this woman's saying, but everything she said to me proved 343 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:40,920 Speaker 2: factly because I checked everything. 344 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:43,880 Speaker 1: After a six month stint of freedom in New York, 345 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: he was discovered when he returned to visit family in 346 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 1: Baltimore for the holidays. 347 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 2: I notified the state about the identification the problem, and 348 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 2: all they take a year and a half to send 349 00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 2: somebody out to the victim, and he positively identify as 350 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:04,679 Speaker 2: a Bucky nutt Right, saying that the man on the 351 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 2: picture even still had the same shirt on that he 352 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:12,159 Speaker 2: had on when they committed the robbery. So there's a 353 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 2: new State's attorney in Baltimore that's just been elected, and 354 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 2: everybody had high hopes that this man was an African 355 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 2: American man and he would be more understanding of the 356 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 2: racial issues that was faced with us all these years 357 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 2: and all that His name was Kurt Smokes, right. I 358 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 2: wrote him from the MARYW House Correction asking him to 359 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:38,679 Speaker 2: please take a look at my case. He wrote me 360 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:46,120 Speaker 2: back no. When the victim positively identified the photograph, then 361 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 2: they contact me and said they would be willing to 362 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 2: release me if I accepted a deal to plead no 363 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 2: low contender to one count in exchange for just being released. 364 00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 2: I same, I'm not taking no deal. Man. Took them 365 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 2: another year and a half for me to get out. 366 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 1: Kurt Schmoke not only became the mayor of Baltimore, but 367 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 1: then also the dean of Howard University Law School, followed 368 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: by the president of the University of Baltimore and a 369 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,919 Speaker 1: part owner of the Baltimore Orioles. It's hard to square 370 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:19,680 Speaker 1: all of that with Leslie's experience, but nevertheless, Leslie was released. 371 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:25,359 Speaker 2: I got released October the seventeenth, nineteen eighty four, and 372 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,439 Speaker 2: before I even had to hear and I had written 373 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 2: to the judge and told them about the deal that 374 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,399 Speaker 2: they tried to force me to accept. And they told 375 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,439 Speaker 2: me that the judge and Smokes was best friends and 376 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 2: they were fraternity brothers, and if I didn't accept the deal, 377 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 2: he was gonna have to judge dismiss my petition based 378 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 2: on the original in court identification that was made by 379 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:53,200 Speaker 2: the victim. Then he threatened the victim and told him, 380 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 2: if you don't say it was Leslie's, we're gonna charge 381 00:21:56,000 --> 00:22:00,679 Speaker 2: you with perjury from your original in court out therefication. 382 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 2: While in prison, I had been earning credits and all 383 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:23,159 Speaker 2: towards my bachelor's First I got my bachelor's degree in 384 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 2: sociology from Tawson State University. I then got my certification 385 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,920 Speaker 2: as a prior legal right Now. In nineteen eighty six, 386 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 2: I got a full unconditional pardon from Governor Harria Hughes. 387 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,119 Speaker 2: I got a court order that all records relating to 388 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 2: that conviction was supposed to been destroyed. That was the 389 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 2: first expansiment order. That was May of nineteen eighty six. 390 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:48,639 Speaker 2: The clerk of the court, when I tried to have 391 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,919 Speaker 2: them enforce it, he told me that he think the 392 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,680 Speaker 2: judge made a mistake and he wasn't putting no order through, 393 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 2: so it sat dormant in their office. Everybody I went 394 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,679 Speaker 2: to get help in regard to it would never help me. 395 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 1: And it appears that this one clerk's in action has 396 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: repeatedly reared its ugly head multiple times throughout Lesley's life. 397 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 1: But for now, there were other fights to win. 398 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 2: You have to remember during that time, they didn't believe 399 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 2: that ronful convictions happened. I petitioned the state for compensation. 400 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 2: I had no alterney. I did interviews with the news 401 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 2: media about what was going on and how I had 402 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,880 Speaker 2: been fighting with the state. I was able to get 403 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 2: an agreement with the state that with the compensation, I 404 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:38,640 Speaker 2: supposed to god assistance with housing, education, employment. The only 405 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:42,880 Speaker 2: thing that they actually did was give me the monthly payments. 406 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:47,160 Speaker 2: I was paid a quarter million dollars over seven years 407 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,640 Speaker 2: by monthly checks. When I first got the first payment, 408 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:57,119 Speaker 2: I purchased a nineteen eighty seven Toyola Crest and I 409 00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,120 Speaker 2: was going to my mom's house and it's restored, it 410 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 2: sits there. I'll come back out the store and it's 411 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 2: a guy propped up on the front of my car. 412 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 2: I'm like, I ha, no chair, Yo, you got that twisted? 413 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 2: He said, I'm Bucky Nutt. And I was like, sir, y'all, 414 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 2: let me say something to you. As long as your 415 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 2: butthole points to the ground. Don't you ever approached me? 416 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:26,159 Speaker 2: Don't you ever say nothing to me? Ever? And he 417 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 2: was like, yo, I man, I ain't made no harm. Man, 418 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:30,680 Speaker 2: I was just introduced her. I said, I don't want 419 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 2: to hear that shit about you introduce yourself to me. 420 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:34,119 Speaker 2: Don't you ever approach me? 421 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,120 Speaker 1: Leslie continued to try to put his wrongful conviction behind him. 422 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: Things went well for a while. He worked for several 423 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 1: different state agencies while receiving his monthly check while pursuing 424 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 1: his record expungement, and in nineteen ninety eight, he believed 425 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 1: he had finally been successful. Over those years, he also 426 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 1: got married to a woman named Donna, which unfortunately brought 427 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 1: him nothing but more heartache. 428 00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:02,119 Speaker 2: After we got married, Donna had all kind of substance 429 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:07,159 Speaker 2: abuse problems. I tried to have her roll in different programs. 430 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,719 Speaker 2: She would disappeared. I wouldn't see her for months at 431 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:14,439 Speaker 2: a time. Come to find out her ex husband before me. 432 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 2: She would go back to him and he would beat 433 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,159 Speaker 2: and bang on her. Then he would write up a 434 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 2: report and submitted to the police for her right. She 435 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 2: supposed he had made an accusation that she was stabbed 436 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 2: by me, that I supposed that had pulled up on 437 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,159 Speaker 2: her and forced her to get into my vehicle and 438 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 2: I tried to kidnap her. He would write up a report, 439 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 2: they would take a charge out on me, and then 440 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 2: she wouldn't come to court. 441 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: And things went on this way unbeknownst to Leslie until 442 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:46,360 Speaker 1: two thousand and four. 443 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,239 Speaker 2: In two thousand and four, I was working for the 444 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:53,560 Speaker 2: Maryland Department of Labor licen Regulation as employment specialists, and 445 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 2: I was doing extremely well. My first child was born 446 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 2: in eighty eight and at that time I had a 447 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 2: custody of forts I'll never forget. I went to work 448 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,680 Speaker 2: that morning the security officer told me that they did 449 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 2: what they call a random check of my name. They said, 450 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,199 Speaker 2: it's a warrant for your arrest and the systems. So 451 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,440 Speaker 2: I'm like, hell right, I'm laughing cout. I know he 452 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 2: got to be joking. He talked about Leslie Vasque got 453 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 2: the old ward. 454 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: It wasn't a joke. The charge was first degree attempted murder. 455 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,760 Speaker 2: And I voluntarily surrendered myself and went in there and 456 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 2: people walked me in. Now I got before the court commission. 457 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:33,160 Speaker 2: She asked me, have you ever been convicted of a felony, 458 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 2: mister Vasq, And I said no, could I haven't the 459 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 2: wrong for Robbie conviction, but not show up. I got 460 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 2: paperwork from the attorney general from the state of Mond 461 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,439 Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety eight, said that he got ex funded 462 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 2: all right, which was the fourth ex monthment order. Turned 463 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 2: the computer screen around and told me, mister Vass, I'm sorry, 464 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 2: but I can't release you on a ball because this 465 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,400 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy five on Robbie is still on the records. 466 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,640 Speaker 2: And I pulled out the expungement order, the order from 467 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:06,120 Speaker 2: the Circuit court, saying that everything was done, the certificate 468 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 2: of compliance, all of it. She said, mister asked, I understand, 469 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,399 Speaker 2: She said, I'm familiar with your case. I'm so sorry 470 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 2: that I'm the one that has to do to She said, 471 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,879 Speaker 2: but because of the charge being what it is, a 472 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 2: first degree attempted murder charge, we cannot release you on 473 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 2: bail because you have this armed robby. I contact the 474 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:32,119 Speaker 2: Attorney General from the jail, the same one that's supposedly 475 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 2: did the expungement in ninety eight. He actually represents Public 476 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,240 Speaker 2: Safety and Correctional Services here in the state of Month, 477 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:45,639 Speaker 2: which is the agency that dissimilates all criminal histories. He 478 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 2: told me, oh, no, Leslie, that's not correct. We're gonna 479 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 2: get that taken care of and then get you released 480 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:56,000 Speaker 2: and all this stuff, okay. He never accepted another call 481 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:57,200 Speaker 2: from me from the jail. 482 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 1: Leslie awaited trial in jail for eighteen months, and with 483 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,639 Speaker 1: no one to care for his four minor children, they 484 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 1: were placed in foster care. Luckily, he was able to 485 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 1: beat the charges, but the nineteen seventy five wrongful conviction 486 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:12,720 Speaker 1: continued to wreck havoc in his life. 487 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 2: After the acquittal, they opposed returning my children to me 488 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 2: and took me two and a half years to get 489 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 2: them back because they claimed I was an habitual criminal. 490 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 2: And I'm saying, how can you use the same criminal 491 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 2: history that you know was a wrongful conviction to claim 492 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 2: that I'm an habitual criminal no matter where I go 493 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,439 Speaker 2: at and what I do. I've left Maryland, moved all 494 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:40,520 Speaker 2: the way to Tampa, Florida, Fayetteville, Georgia, I've lived in 495 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 2: ox Nord California in twenty twenty, was working for an 496 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 2: re entry organization, did a live scan and hit come 497 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 2: the same wrongful conviction and you still bringing it up 498 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 2: at the age of sixty six. Come on, something's wrong 499 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 2: with this. 500 00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 1: But something positive did happen for all ex honer reason. 501 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 1: Maryland twenty one, the Walter Lomas Act was passed, which 502 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: meant a new avenue for compensation for Leslie. 503 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 2: They awarded me five hundred and seventy seven thousand dollars 504 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 2: two years ago, and on July the fourth, they honored 505 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 2: me at the Waterfront Festival in Cherry Hill. When I 506 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 2: met the Controller for the State of Maryland. Her name 507 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 2: is Brooke Lureman explained her. I said, look, I said, Brooke, 508 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 2: I said, I'm tired all. I've asked them correct their 509 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 2: injustice that's been going on over these years that I've 510 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 2: been sending y'all. She's aware, but she said to me 511 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,480 Speaker 2: that I need to make an appointment meet the. 512 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 1: Governor and maybe he can't trust them to finally effectively 513 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 1: expunge his record, but we really hope that someone finally 514 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 1: gets it right. 515 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 2: The lesson of all this man that I hope and 516 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 2: played at all the other exetaries recognized that, make sure 517 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 2: they check about these background histories, make sure that it's 518 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 2: done the way it's supposed to. That means it has 519 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 2: to be exam it from the FBI fouls also, and 520 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 2: that might be something that a lot of John Reeves 521 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 2: don't know. 522 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 1: So an he calls to action for our audience. 523 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 2: Call for actions for this voy Marcellus Williams. My blessings 524 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 2: for him and prayers for his family. 525 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 1: For those of you who aren't aware, an innocent man 526 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 1: named Marcellus Williams is set to be executed on September 527 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,960 Speaker 1: twenty fourth, twenty twenty four, even though he has been 528 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 1: excluded from every piece of physical evidence. The current Saint 529 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 1: Louis prosecuting attorney Wesley Bell supports Marcellus's motion to vacate 530 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 1: the conviction. Yes you heard that right, while Missouri Attorney 531 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 1: General Andrew Bailey, on the other hand, has gone so 532 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 1: far as to try to block recent exculpatory DNA evidence 533 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 1: from being even heard in court. Marcellus and the Midwest 534 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 1: Innocence Project desperately need our help, and we're going to 535 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 1: link action steps in the episode description, and with that 536 00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:58,960 Speaker 1: we turn now to my favorite part of the show, 537 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:02,680 Speaker 1: where I to have the privilege of thanking you again 538 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 1: for being here and sharing your story. And now I'm 539 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: just going to kick back in my chair, close my eyes, 540 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 1: and you've just shared with us any other thoughts you 541 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 1: may have. 542 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 2: I hope this governor do what he says. That's it. 543 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 2: There's nothing else that I can ask for. I want 544 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 2: to be able to live. I'll be sixty seven, except 545 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 2: telling my man. I want to be able to have peace, 546 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 2: not just at night when I lay down and rest, 547 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 2: but I want to have peace so that I can 548 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 2: enjoy the remains of my days. I think I deserve that. 549 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 2: I know I'm gonna have that. You can't never make 550 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 2: me hold because of what happened, because you can put 551 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 2: me to a point where I don't have to worry 552 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 2: no more. 553 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrong for Conviction. You can 554 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 1: listen to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts 555 00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 1: one week early and ed free subscribing to Lava for 556 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I want to thank our 557 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,719 Speaker 1: production team, Connor Hall and Kathleen Fink, as well as 558 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 1: my fellow executive producers Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wartis and Jeff Clyburn. 559 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 1: The music in this production was supplied by three time 560 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,360 Speaker 1: OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us 561 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 1: across all social media platforms at Lava for Good and 562 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 1: at Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow me on Instagram 563 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 1: at it's Jason Flamm. Wrongful Conviction is a production of 564 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 1: Lava for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number 565 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 1: one