Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to
Speaker 1: the whitetail woods, presented by First Light, creating proven versatile
Speaker 1: hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light,
Speaker 1: Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon,
Speaker 1: Welcome to the.
Speaker 2: Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on the show, I'm
Speaker 2: joined by Bo Martona to discuss his greatest lessons learned
Speaker 2: and best practices for planning an epic Western hunting adventure.
Speaker 2: All right, welcome back to the Wired to Hunt podcast,
Speaker 2: brought to you by First Light, and today we are
Speaker 2: continuing our adventure series, but we are kind of expanding
Speaker 2: the scope a little bit. The first three episodes we're
Speaker 2: talking through very specific whitetail hunting adventure ideas. Today we're
Speaker 2: going to kind of look at a region. We're going
Speaker 2: to look at the West, how to plan a Western
Speaker 2: hunting adventure, and really we're just discussing topics that could
Speaker 2: be applied to a white tail hunt out west, but
Speaker 2: also an elkon of mule, deer hunt, pronghorn bear, whatever
Speaker 2: it is. If you want to add some adventure to
Speaker 2: your hunting season, doing one of these bigger Western trips
Speaker 2: is a great way to do that. It's a great
Speaker 2: way to expand your realm of possibilities, to learn new things,
Speaker 2: to try new things, and to have a wild experience.
Speaker 2: So that's the plan for our conversation. And my guest
Speaker 2: is someone who has specialized in that kind of thing
Speaker 2: for more than a decade now. This is Bomartnic. I
Speaker 2: think a lot of you guys know who he is.
Speaker 2: He's been on the podcast before. He's a great white
Speaker 2: tail hunter, communicator, media podcast guy like me too, from
Speaker 2: the East, but has increasingly been adventuring out west. He
Speaker 2: has a podcast and you know YouTube channel and everything
Speaker 2: that in many ways has focused on you know, how
Speaker 2: do you go from the East to the West? The East,
Speaker 2: East meets West Hunt podcast is the name, so it's
Speaker 2: right there in the title of what he's doing. It's
Speaker 2: kind of what formed the foundation of his platform. And
Speaker 2: so he personally has done these things, tried these things,
Speaker 2: learned about these things. But he has also interviewed probably
Speaker 2: hundreds of people about these types of adventures, planning these adventures.
Speaker 2: So he has his own experience plus that of some
Speaker 2: of the very best in the world. So who better
Speaker 2: to talk to about planning this kind of thing yourself
Speaker 2: than Beau Martonic. So that's the game plan for today.
Speaker 2: I want to address one kind of elephant in the
Speaker 2: room though a little bit, which is that this is
Speaker 2: something that Bow and I briefly touch on in our conversation,
Speaker 2: but as the allure and the appeal of heading west
Speaker 2: has become more and more publicized through media storytelling, podcast,
Speaker 2: TV shows, originally now YouTube whatever it is, right, there's
Speaker 2: a lot of people talking about going west, trying your
Speaker 2: first out hunt, trying your first mule, deer hunt, pronghorn hunt,
Speaker 2: whatever it is. In recent years, there's also been a
Speaker 2: little bit of backlasher on that because of the increase
Speaker 2: in hunting pressure or the increase impact on wildlife and
Speaker 2: public lands and the landscapes. And that's not unique to hunting.
Speaker 2: That same kind of pressure and concern has been popping
Speaker 2: up when it comes to mountain biking, rafting, camping, anything. Right,
Speaker 2: if you're out there on these landscapes, especially shared public lands,
Speaker 2: there's going to be challenges and figure out how do
Speaker 2: we share these things, how do we use them in
Speaker 2: a responsible way so that we can enjoy them ourselves
Speaker 2: but also make sure that other people can enjoy them
Speaker 2: and make sure that the resource, the natural landscape and
Speaker 2: wildlife there can thrive too, and then finally making sure
Speaker 2: all of this is possible for future generations as well.
Speaker 2: So that's like a tricky thing. It's a tricky line
Speaker 2: to walk. That's not something that happens just by accident.
Speaker 2: It certainly doesn't happen by us going out there and
Speaker 2: just taking whatever we can take ourselves and hoping it
Speaker 2: hands out okay for everyone else. I think that an
Speaker 2: inherent obligation that each one of us has if we
Speaker 2: are going to go out there and recreate on these
Speaker 2: wild Western public landscapes, if we're going to go out
Speaker 2: there on an elk hunt or a deer hunt, or
Speaker 2: a backpacking trip or a trout fishing adventure, whatever it
Speaker 2: is that is there for you to do that. It's
Speaker 2: an incredible American inheritance that we have these wild public landscapes.
Speaker 2: But it also comes with the responsibility, and that responsibility
Speaker 2: is to do so as low impact as you possibly can.
Speaker 2: Follow the rules and regulations, don't trash these places, treat
Speaker 2: other people well, treat the wildlife well and with respect,
Speaker 2: hunt smart, hunt carefully, and then also stand up for
Speaker 2: these public lands. Be a voice in support of our
Speaker 2: public lands and public lands systems. Speak out when people
Speaker 2: try to trash them, try to sell them or transfer them,
Speaker 2: or pay them over, cut them down, drill them up,
Speaker 2: whatever it is. There are a lot of threats to
Speaker 2: our public lands, waters and wildlife right now. There's a
Speaker 2: lot of stuff going on. We talked about this with
Speaker 2: Hal Herring a few weeks ago. We're going to talk
Speaker 2: about it again here in the near future. But if
Speaker 2: you want to go out and have these places to
Speaker 2: enjoy for yourself, your kids, and your buddies and your kids' kids,
Speaker 2: it's not just going to happen by default. It's going
Speaker 2: to require we be a part of that future, that
Speaker 2: we be a part of that solution. So I would
Speaker 2: urge you to stay engaged, to keep paying attention to
Speaker 2: this stuff, to sign the petition, send the emails, make
Speaker 2: the phone calls, be a part of this because we
Speaker 2: have un believable thing in these six hundred and forty
Speaker 2: million acres of federal public lands. There's many, many more
Speaker 2: state public lands as well. There's a lot of incredible
Speaker 2: places out there that support huntable populations, fishable populations, great camping,
Speaker 2: great backpacking, rafting, biking, camping, hiking, whatever your thing is, man,
Speaker 2: it's there, and it's pretty damn unique to the United States.
Speaker 2: We're really lucky. But we got to make sure we
Speaker 2: keep it that way. That's on me, that's on you,
Speaker 2: and I hope you will stay tuned because we will
Speaker 2: definitely be talking.
Speaker 3: About this more.
Speaker 2: So with that out of the way, let's get to
Speaker 2: my chat with Bow about planning an epic Western hunting adventure.
Speaker 2: All right with me now? Is Bo mar Tonic Bo.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show.
Speaker 3: Mark, Thanks for having me back on. It's good to
Speaker 3: see you.
Speaker 2: I really appreciate it. It's great to have an excuse
Speaker 2: to catch up. And we're talking about something here today
Speaker 2: that's near and dear to both of our hearts, something
Speaker 2: we both love, something we've both experienced. And as you know,
Speaker 2: I've been doing this series here this month on Wired Hunt,
Speaker 2: all about kind of bringing an adventure back into your
Speaker 2: hunting season, and the last three episodes have been explicitly,
Speaker 2: you know, specific whitetail adventure ideas. Today, I want to
Speaker 2: kind of widen the aperture just a little bit more
Speaker 2: and kind of explore some more regional adventure, logistics, ideas, mindsets,
Speaker 2: things to plan for, and these being things you could
Speaker 2: apply to a white tail hunt, an elk hunt, a
Speaker 2: prong horn hunt, or whatever, because I think any one
Speaker 2: of those things is a hell of an adventure for
Speaker 2: a white tail hunter, you know, a self identified white
Speaker 2: tail first guy or girl can still go and do
Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. So I got to start here, bo,
Speaker 2: Why go west? Why West?
Speaker 3: To me?
Speaker 4: The reason why I went west, and the reason why
Speaker 4: I believe a lot of people do, is the landscapes
Speaker 4: are just in the places that you can go to
Speaker 4: or just incredible places that. I mean, there's there's beautiful
Speaker 4: places all over the Midwest, the East Coast, the Northeast,
Speaker 4: all those different places, but there's something about the mountains,
Speaker 4: the plains, the open country, the thick country, just everything
Speaker 4: about the West is what really drew me to it.
Speaker 4: And then also the different species that you're able to
Speaker 4: to be able to haunt, whether it's elk or mule
Speaker 4: deer or antelope or anything like that.
Speaker 3: There's plenty of opportunity there.
Speaker 4: But I think for the most part for me, it
Speaker 4: was the place like that, the element of place more
Speaker 4: so than anything else that drew me to going out
Speaker 4: west and trying something different.
Speaker 2: So a lot of that was the same for me.
Speaker 2: But for a lot of years, all of that allure
Speaker 2: seemed out of reach. It seemed like I wasn't qualified
Speaker 2: or or educated enough, or or well armed enough, I
Speaker 2: guess to do it. I don't know if you did
Speaker 2: you feel like that at some point in your life
Speaker 2: as you dreamed about these things, but but maybe thought
Speaker 2: it was like, oh, geez, I can I actually do that?
Speaker 2: Did you did you struggle with that at all? And
Speaker 2: did you learn anything along the way when you finally
Speaker 2: kind of crashed through that barrier that opened your eyes?
Speaker 3: Yeah? It.
Speaker 4: I remember watching it as a kid on TV and
Speaker 4: watching the watt L's of the world l hunting and
Speaker 4: doing this stuff, and I'm like, man, you know, I
Speaker 4: wish I could do that, And no one in my
Speaker 4: family had really done that prior, so I didn't really
Speaker 4: have anybody locally to learn from like I did for
Speaker 4: deer hunting, So it was just this like mystical thing.
Speaker 4: And you know, now there's a lot of great resources
Speaker 4: out there that you can plan things, in my opinion,
Speaker 4: a lot easier, but there was it just felt like
Speaker 4: so out of reach. I was like, man, I don't
Speaker 4: know if I have the time or the money to
Speaker 4: be able to put forth and do that. And I
Speaker 4: quickly well, one thing about my personality is I'm definitely
Speaker 4: an overthinker and over analyze and I like to plan
Speaker 4: things out and go through it. But there's also a
Speaker 4: part of me that at some point I get to
Speaker 4: a point where I just make a decision with it
Speaker 4: just kind of on the fly, and it's like, all right,
Speaker 4: I'm doing this.
Speaker 3: And it really came from for me.
Speaker 4: I had read Cameron Haynes's book Backcountry bow Hunting, and
Speaker 4: I was reading about the adventure and him backpack into
Speaker 4: the Eagle Caps and all this cool stuff, and I
Speaker 4: was like, man, that sounds awesome. Like I love I
Speaker 4: love camping, I love hiking, and I love hunting. Like
Speaker 4: this seems like a pretty good option. He says that
Speaker 4: anybody can do it, so I'm gonna I'm gonna try it.
Speaker 4: And it really came to one having good good friends
Speaker 4: with both my brother and my cousin that I talked
Speaker 4: to and was like, Hey, do you want to go
Speaker 4: elk hunting?
Speaker 3: And They're like, yeah, sure, let's do it.
Speaker 4: And really just putting it on the calendar and then
Speaker 4: figuring out the rest of it from there. And now
Speaker 4: I will say some of that is a little bit
Speaker 4: more difficult today with over the counter tags not being
Speaker 4: as read available, especially in the elk world. But nonetheless,
Speaker 4: the same concept can be applied with setting a date
Speaker 4: to it and and then working backwards of like, you know,
Speaker 4: figuring out what the goal is and what you want
Speaker 4: to do. And for the most time, most of the
Speaker 4: time you can figure out how to do something. And
Speaker 4: depending on your current situation, is like what that time
Speaker 4: horizon looks like that you should give yourself and and
Speaker 4: I shouldn't you know, I don't want to say. You know,
Speaker 4: say if you have, you know, a week of vacation
Speaker 4: from work and you're you're ready, barely paying the bills
Speaker 4: and you're going through it and it's July and you
Speaker 4: decide you want to go do a hunt this September,
Speaker 4: maybe that's not the right time to put that time horizon.
Speaker 4: So I guess narrowly or so soon, but you know,
Speaker 4: to be able to plan it out. But I think
Speaker 4: it depends on each person. And I think the important
Speaker 4: thing is setting that time. I mean honestly, Mark. It
Speaker 4: even comes back to and from, like the business standpoint.
Speaker 4: You were one of the people that gave me advice
Speaker 4: when I was going to do the podcast full time
Speaker 4: of your like, Hey, I set a date and work
Speaker 4: towards it, and that's what I did and ended up
Speaker 4: making that a reality. And I think that applies a
Speaker 4: lot when it comes to these adventure style hunts.
Speaker 2: So you set the date, you got some buddies together
Speaker 2: to do it, you said, all right, I'm finally going
Speaker 2: to do this thing, and you did. And now you know,
Speaker 2: it's been so many years later, you've done a whole
Speaker 2: bunch of it since, Yeah, what's the biggest assumption that
Speaker 2: you had going in that has proved to be incredibly false?
Speaker 2: Like what did you have really wrong coming into it?
Speaker 2: Then now you look back on being man, I didn't
Speaker 2: see that coming or I underestimated that thing. Does anything
Speaker 2: stand out like that?
Speaker 4: When it comes to hunting the mountains specifically, I underestimated
Speaker 4: how big they were because I had never been west
Speaker 4: of the Mississippi prior to that, and it was like
Speaker 4: an altitude and I was just like, man, the physically,
Speaker 4: the physical demandingness of a backcountry specific, like mountain hunt
Speaker 4: is pretty demanding, and that was something I definitely underestimated
Speaker 4: when I'm you know, I'm looking on the maps and
Speaker 4: I'm marking glassing points and I'm doing this, and I realized,
Speaker 4: I'm like, I don't know if I can get to
Speaker 4: that spot. There's a cliff there, and I don't love heights,
Speaker 4: So trying to figure out the navigation on that that
Speaker 4: was like a big eye opener to me. But the
Speaker 4: other the thing I think I overthought going into it
Speaker 4: was the gear side of it of just trying to
Speaker 4: dial in everything when I didn't know. I didn't know
Speaker 4: what I didn't know as far as like what's going
Speaker 4: to work and and what my style of hunting. Maybe
Speaker 4: I'm not gonna like this, you know, backpack style of hunting.
Speaker 4: And for me, like I think, I think one of
Speaker 4: the biggest barriers, especially when it came to like starting
Speaker 4: out with trying a backpack hunt, was I probably should
Speaker 4: have started with.
Speaker 3: And I think for a lower.
Speaker 4: Barrier to entry is like a truck style hunt, like
Speaker 4: where you're camping at the truck and hiking in and
Speaker 4: honestly it's from a standpoint of shooting an animal, I mean,
Speaker 4: that's a lot of times a better option because you're
Speaker 4: able to move and cover more ground and check areas
Speaker 4: when you haven't been there prior. So I think I
Speaker 4: overthought that the gear side of it, and like they said,
Speaker 4: the truck camping style, you don't need as much gear
Speaker 4: as far as needing to spend a ton of money
Speaker 4: in tents and different sleeping bags and things upfront to
Speaker 4: make you lighter and more efficient going in. But I
Speaker 4: think really what I learned was it wasn't as hard
Speaker 4: as I thought it was going to be, but it
Speaker 4: was harder in the same respect as far as being
Speaker 4: successful at it and looking at it from a I'm
Speaker 4: going to go out here one time and I'm going
Speaker 4: to shoot an elk Is. It's probably not super realistic,
Speaker 4: it can definitely happen, but looking at this as a
Speaker 4: journey of like, I want to commit to doing this.
Speaker 4: If this is what I want to do, let's go
Speaker 4: out there and try it and and not not put
Speaker 4: so much weight on that. Get going as prepared as
Speaker 4: you can can be, but you learn so much once
Speaker 4: you're actually in it and doing it that help you
Speaker 4: down the road.
Speaker 2: Did you ever read that book Atomic Habits by James
Speaker 2: Clear I have yeah, yeah. So as you're saying this,
Speaker 2: a lot of what you're saying like directly ties into
Speaker 2: what he recommends for forming a new habit. Like a
Speaker 2: couple of things that help you stick to a new
Speaker 2: habit build something useful in your life is one, make
Speaker 2: it easy to get started, and then too, like make
Speaker 2: sure it's rewarding, like it's being really hard to actually
Speaker 2: follow through on something and get good at it and
Speaker 2: keep doing it if you set crazy expectations for it
Speaker 2: and then you fail or out the gate. Right. But
Speaker 2: what you're saying is, hey, you know, maybe you don't
Speaker 2: need to plan your very first Western trip as this
Speaker 2: epic two week backpack hunt deep into the wilders. Maybe
Speaker 2: you should dip your toes in this with something that's
Speaker 2: from the truck that is also with expectations. Step properly
Speaker 2: to enjoy the journey and not feel like you have
Speaker 2: to kill a three hundred and sixty inch bowl the
Speaker 2: first time.
Speaker 3: You go, right.
Speaker 2: I think there's probably a lot of people going into
Speaker 2: it thinking that they're going to cam haignes it right
Speaker 2: out the gate and then fall on their faces and
Speaker 2: they're like, whoa this isn't what I thought, and maybe
Speaker 2: they'd never end up trying again because of that. Is
Speaker 2: that is that something you've heard a lot of folks
Speaker 2: going to.
Speaker 4: One hundred percent, like I mean, and that was that
Speaker 4: was me. Like the first trip that I did was
Speaker 4: I picked the steepest, deepest unit I could find in
Speaker 4: Colorado to backpack into, not ever having any experience and
Speaker 4: doing that in the West, and it was it was
Speaker 4: a really poor choice. From that, Now I did, I learned,
Speaker 4: but like, yes, but I wanted, believe me, I wanted
Speaker 4: to quit and and a lot of times during it,
Speaker 4: and and we didn't quit, but and and then there's
Speaker 4: a lot of you know, I'm gonna uh contradict myself
Speaker 4: a little bit here because I definitely learned a lot
Speaker 4: from it that was beneficial. But I think there's value
Speaker 4: in in making it a little bit more enjoyable the
Speaker 4: first time as you're going and getting your feet wet
Speaker 4: with it to see one if you're even gonna like it,
Speaker 4: or you may go out and have a completely you know,
Speaker 4: bad taste in your mouth for it if you weren't
Speaker 4: as prepared or you're getting into it, and then you
Speaker 4: don't want to do it again, realizing there's so many
Speaker 4: more opportunities that you can partake in that maybe not
Speaker 4: as demanding or or whatever along those lines, if that,
Speaker 4: if that makes sense.
Speaker 2: So so given that bo, if you were to kind
Speaker 2: of zoom out continuing down this line of thinking, kind
Speaker 2: of some of these biggest lessons learned I kind of
Speaker 2: didn't exercise after this last hunting season in which I
Speaker 2: looked back on the year and thought through like what
Speaker 2: were all the best moments of my year? And what
Speaker 2: were all the worst moments of my year? And you know,
Speaker 2: what were the things consistent between them? It's like, what
Speaker 2: were the things that always seem to be true when
Speaker 2: I was having my best hunts or my best days
Speaker 2: during the hunting season, and then what were those things
Speaker 2: that were always true on the days when I was
Speaker 2: miserable or things weren't going right or whatever. And it
Speaker 2: kind of was illuminating to me to see, like, oh,
Speaker 2: there's certain things that were present across every single one
Speaker 2: of them. I'm curious for you if you were to
Speaker 2: do that, if you were to look over all your
Speaker 2: years now, on all these Western hunts you've done, You've
Speaker 2: you've had a hell of a lot of great adventures. Now,
Speaker 2: if you look back on that and try to think
Speaker 2: about across all of your best experiences, best moments, best trips,
Speaker 2: what has been consistent among those, what stands out is like, man,
Speaker 2: this thing has always been there on those on those
Speaker 2: moments or days or weeks that are stand out.
Speaker 4: I think, I think one thing for me that that
Speaker 4: has I'll start with kind of what has ruined I
Speaker 4: guess experiences, because that turns into one of the best,
Speaker 4: the best things with it. And I think a lot
Speaker 4: of it came down to and this may be it's
Speaker 4: a little bit unique to say someone that is in
Speaker 4: our shoes from the standpoint of having more ability or
Speaker 4: more time to be able to go on multiple hunts
Speaker 4: and things. But I see a lot of guys that
Speaker 4: are out there now doing multiple states and hunting, you know,
Speaker 4: even with jobs and doing it. And I was doing
Speaker 4: that when I had my full time job as well.
Speaker 4: But I think not giving enough time to something to
Speaker 4: one adventure, Like if I were to look at it,
Speaker 4: I would rather put you know, if I had two
Speaker 4: weeks off of work, putting most of that time towards
Speaker 4: one hunt, versus trying to do too many things or
Speaker 4: go to too many places, because for me, at least,
Speaker 4: it takes me a little bit to completely immerse in
Speaker 4: that experience, disconnect focus on what I'm there to do.
Speaker 4: And when I give myself an ample amount of time
Speaker 4: to focus something, depending on the hunt, maybe that's you know,
Speaker 4: six or seven days, or maybe that's two weeks, but
Speaker 4: put it given myself amount of time to really learn
Speaker 4: the species or the area or whatever I'm doing, and
Speaker 4: put myself in that, and like when I look back
Speaker 4: on it, when I have that and I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 4: here's my set time, it's actually doable to do that.
Speaker 4: I enjoy those experiences so much more than if I'm like,
Speaker 4: all right, man, I only have you know, three or
Speaker 4: four days to go here or to do that, And
Speaker 4: then it's like, all right, I'm running the challenges of
Speaker 4: I need to acclimate to the mountains. I need to
Speaker 4: I've never been here before. I got to figure out
Speaker 4: where the el car. Yeah, I've e scouted and I've
Speaker 4: done this a bunch of times. I think I have
Speaker 4: a good idea, but it gives that unnecessary stress. So
Speaker 4: anytime I can remove that stress from things and really
Speaker 4: be able to focus on it.
Speaker 3: That's where I've I've.
Speaker 4: Found the most memorable hunts when I'm looking back on it,
Speaker 4: is when I was been able to immerse myself and
Speaker 4: give myself the ability to really enjoy it. Seeing the
Speaker 4: leaves changing in September as you're there, and and seeing
Speaker 4: the stage of the the Elk rut. You know, I'm
Speaker 4: referencing elk hunting a lot, because that's what a lot
Speaker 4: of what I've done has been. But being able to
Speaker 4: see those moments and really feel them out versus rushing
Speaker 4: it to you know, hit a goal or do something
Speaker 4: in that regards. That's made those hunts. I wouldn't say miserable,
Speaker 4: but they've When I look back on a season, it's like, man,
Speaker 4: I really rushed that a lot, Like there was there
Speaker 4: was a time. I'll just give an example. It has
Speaker 4: to do with a white Tail trip. But a couple
Speaker 4: of years ago during the rout and you're always trying
Speaker 4: to take as much advantage of the time during the rut,
Speaker 4: and I was like really run down. I was like,
Speaker 4: I need want to go to West Virginia. You starting
Speaker 4: to feel sick, and I only had like three days
Speaker 4: where I could do it. I went down there and
Speaker 4: it was I really shouldn't even have went because it
Speaker 4: was like I had never I wasn't fully there, I
Speaker 4: didn't prepare enough to go into it to begin with,
Speaker 4: and I was just run down and just wasn't having
Speaker 4: a great time. And it's like, that's not why I'm
Speaker 4: there to do this. And I think I think there's
Speaker 4: a there's a lot to be said about about planning
Speaker 4: it out and having that amount of time, and and
Speaker 4: you know, if I've had this, I've brought this up before,
Speaker 4: and a question that I'll get back is like, well,
Speaker 4: I don't have as much time as you do. What
Speaker 4: if I only have five days to make an ill
Speaker 4: cunt happen? It's like, okay, well, my like the honest
Speaker 4: truth of it is it don't go hunt the mountains
Speaker 4: where if you're coming from flatland you need to act
Speaker 4: on me because you're really not going to have a
Speaker 4: great experience. You neither need to figure out how to
Speaker 4: extend that time horizon or pick a different hunt that
Speaker 4: fits that mold that you're looking for.
Speaker 3: And that's that's that's the truth of it in my opinion.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, a lot of that I think also goes
Speaker 2: to expectations right, like what you you know, whether it
Speaker 2: be setting that proper goal or target species or or
Speaker 2: just setting like what am I actually what actually can
Speaker 2: I achieve here? What am I trying to achieve? What
Speaker 2: am I trying to do? Like like so much of
Speaker 2: my I don't know, growth or journey in this whole
Speaker 2: thing over the over recent years has been trying to
Speaker 2: figure out, you know, how to set goals in a
Speaker 2: way where you know, I'm still challenging myself and still
Speaker 2: like pursuing something that's that's exciting or it's going to
Speaker 2: push me, but at the same time making sure that
Speaker 2: it's not like sucking the enjoyment out of it too.
Speaker 2: How have you kind of wrestled with that over the years?
Speaker 2: Has that changed it all for you from from day
Speaker 2: one to where you are now? What's that looking now?
Speaker 3: Yeah? It has?
Speaker 4: And and again like from the western hunting perspective, And
Speaker 4: I was actually going to bring this up, was I've
Speaker 4: it took it? You don't know until you do something,
Speaker 4: but you learn like a style of hunting that you
Speaker 4: like to do. And I've even found this with white
Speaker 4: tails is like, believe me, I love sitting in a
Speaker 4: tree that's great and it's fun for a period of time,
Speaker 4: But I like, I love glassing. I've realized I love
Speaker 4: to glass, it doesn't matter where I'm at. Like I
Speaker 4: love glassing, I love spotting stock. So when I'm looking
Speaker 4: at planning elk hunts, I don't particularly love just going
Speaker 4: through dark timber. It for miles going over blowdowns and
Speaker 4: trees and to feel like I'm just lost hiking most
Speaker 4: of the time because I'm not hearing any bugles.
Speaker 3: Whereas when I.
Speaker 4: Can hunt an area that maybe has a little bit
Speaker 4: more of you know, sparse timber, some stuff I can
Speaker 4: glass a little bit, maybe do some spot in stock
Speaker 4: and some calling, you know whatever, that to me is
Speaker 4: more enjoyable. I'm not saying that's everybody. It depends on
Speaker 4: the style, but for me, I found I like that.
Speaker 4: So it's like, all right, if I'm going to plan
Speaker 4: one of these hunts, like I would rather I would
Speaker 4: rather find a hunt like that that I want to
Speaker 4: do that I'm really pumped about doing it and excited
Speaker 4: about that style of hunting. That that's what I'm going
Speaker 4: to put my effort into and do that, And.
Speaker 3: Like I just haven't you know, it's.
Speaker 4: It's funny, like when it comes to whitetails, and especially
Speaker 4: in my home state in Pennsylvania, I have because I
Speaker 4: spend the most time here, Like I have certain goals
Speaker 4: as far as the animal and the caliber of animal
Speaker 4: that I'm chasing and doing that, but if I find
Speaker 4: on these like adventure Western hunts, it's more about the
Speaker 4: place and this and the species than anything else. Of like,
Speaker 4: what is my experience going to be in that style
Speaker 4: of hunt that I really want?
Speaker 3: And the more that I've followed.
Speaker 4: That, the success has come inadvertently with it. You know,
Speaker 4: I'm still I'm not saying I'm going out there and
Speaker 4: not putting in the work and trying to be successful
Speaker 4: at you know, a particular age class or whatever it
Speaker 4: might be.
Speaker 3: But that's not the focal point for me.
Speaker 4: As much as it is to have those experiences in
Speaker 4: those areas in the style hunt that I want, and
Speaker 4: the more reps I got into that then have become
Speaker 4: more efficient or you know, better at doing those style
Speaker 4: of hunts. And I'm still not nearly there as far
Speaker 4: as I have so much to learn, and even after
Speaker 4: doing it for ten years and you know, now doing
Speaker 4: multiple hunts per year out West. It's I've gained a
Speaker 4: lot of experience in a shorter amount of time, but
Speaker 4: still learning so much.
Speaker 3: And I think having.
Speaker 4: That that, always wanting to learn and find that style
Speaker 4: of hunting that you like is makes it so much
Speaker 4: more enjoyable for me personally.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that resonates allow with me to It's funny.
Speaker 2: It seems like, even though you know, we're both relatively
Speaker 2: young guys and we've been going out West for ten,
Speaker 2: fifteen years, whatever it is, even in that short period
Speaker 2: of time you talked about learning, it seems like there's
Speaker 2: so much that's changed already just in that period. Like
Speaker 2: when I look back on what it was like and
Speaker 2: when I was planning hunts back in like twenty ten
Speaker 2: to eleven something like that, it seems like vastly different
Speaker 2: already now when it comes to certain things, What have
Speaker 2: you seen that's changed the most? Maybe not with you,
Speaker 2: like with what you know personally, but just like the
Speaker 2: whole setting and what's going on out West and how
Speaker 2: you have to plan hunts now. And I don't know,
Speaker 2: do you feel like the pressure is changing? I feel
Speaker 2: like that's That's something I've noticed in some ways already,
Speaker 2: just in this short window. What have you seen across
Speaker 2: across those categories.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think yeah, the pressure which then turns into
Speaker 4: the tag allocations. I think that that is definitely it.
Speaker 4: And then also the cost of admission to doing so
Speaker 4: and getting tags is a lot more than it was.
Speaker 3: I remember when ELK tags were four hundred.
Speaker 4: Bucks, and now you know there's some states. I mean, heck,
Speaker 4: I just put in for Wyoming that was to potentially
Speaker 4: draw a decent unit and put in for the special
Speaker 4: draws almost two thousand dollars to be able to apply
Speaker 4: for that tag.
Speaker 3: And that's not and that's not all of them.
Speaker 4: You can still get ELK tags for that seven hundred
Speaker 4: dollars range somewhere in there. Don't get me wrong, but
Speaker 4: I think that the cost of admission, the amount of
Speaker 4: opportunity has decreased, and then the hunting pressure has has
Speaker 4: obviously increased as well. But I still think there's so
Speaker 4: much opportunity there at the same time, it just takes
Speaker 4: a little bit more of of research, planning and maybe
Speaker 4: and maybe changing that instead. The benefit of like when
Speaker 4: we started is you could find an area and you
Speaker 4: could go truly to learn it for four years in
Speaker 4: a row. If you wanted to where now it's really
Speaker 4: difficult to get a tag two years in a row
Speaker 4: to really be able to learn it. So trying to
Speaker 4: find some different things that you want to do or
Speaker 4: maybe similar areas that our style of hunting. Like I'm
Speaker 4: talking about saying spot in stock maybe it's in Montana
Speaker 4: this year, in Idaho the next year, and there are
Speaker 4: two different places, but you can find similar style hunts
Speaker 4: to be able to learn it. But I think that
Speaker 4: the planning aspect of it is definitely much much more
Speaker 4: important to it, and because it's just the landscape has
Speaker 4: definitely changed in those areas most That's what I've seen
Speaker 4: the most of, you.
Speaker 2: Know, something I've gotten to thinking more and more of.
Speaker 2: And this is something that kind of naturally happens sometimes,
Speaker 2: but I think it might happen more now is just
Speaker 2: given how allocation is going to tags and stuff. I'm
Speaker 2: almost looking at, you know, elk hunting or some of
Speaker 2: these Western trips almost as like a group endeavor in
Speaker 2: which there might be one guy with a tag, right,
Speaker 2: and then a few of you go out there just
Speaker 2: to help out, right, and it's a fun adventure. Still
Speaker 2: you're packing me off the Mountain. Hopefully you're a part
Speaker 2: of it, but you just might not have a tag
Speaker 2: on a given year, do you I mean, do you
Speaker 2: see an appeal to that? I started thinking, Man, I'd
Speaker 2: be happy to go help my buddy when he draws one.
Speaker 2: Like it seems like it's like when you're out turkey
Speaker 2: hunting with friends here at home, right. I love just
Speaker 2: going out and calling for buddies, even if I already
Speaker 2: filled my tag. I wonder if that's I don't know
Speaker 2: if it's sad that that's becoming a reality. I guess
Speaker 2: it kind of is sad that's becoming a reality, but
Speaker 2: it also might be a silver line, like, hey, even
Speaker 2: if you can't draw, there's still ways to have a
Speaker 2: great adventure out there. We can still experience these places.
Speaker 2: We can still you know, go out there and do
Speaker 2: cool stuff even if you can't afford the two thousand
Speaker 2: tis dollar tag this year, or you couldn't draw in
Speaker 2: Utah for a decade. You know, is there is there
Speaker 2: the truth of that?
Speaker 3: I think so?
Speaker 4: And I think that's where it really again. You have
Speaker 4: to look at what your goals and what you're doing
Speaker 4: it for, and it's like, if you're truly going there
Speaker 4: for that experience, whether you have the bow or the
Speaker 4: gun in your hand, doesn't necessarily make or break that.
Speaker 4: And I think the people that we're talking to typically
Speaker 4: aren't the people that are looking at things as just
Speaker 4: a bucket list per se of like oh, I want
Speaker 4: to check this animal off my list. They're going for
Speaker 4: that experience. And if that's what your goal is, I
Speaker 4: think that's one a good way of being able to
Speaker 4: do it because you and especially you know, finding a
Speaker 4: group of buddies that you can that you can plan
Speaker 4: that stuff out with, and you know, I try to.
Speaker 4: I have a group of friends that we try to
Speaker 4: you know, align our points so we can.
Speaker 3: Get tags together.
Speaker 4: That's the ultimate goal still, but there times when that
Speaker 4: doesn't work out, and it's like, all right, how can
Speaker 4: we still enjoy that? And like maybe this is the
Speaker 4: older that I'm getting, But I enjoy that camaraderie aspect
Speaker 4: so much more now in that just like camp atmosphere
Speaker 4: and being there with buddies and working towards a common goal.
Speaker 4: And I get just as excited, if not more, when
Speaker 4: a buddy of mine shoots one, like when I was
Speaker 4: in Montana this past year.
Speaker 3: Elk hunting.
Speaker 4: Now, we both had a tag, but my cousin had
Speaker 4: never shot an elk before, and I got to watch
Speaker 4: him through the spotting scope shoot a bowl and go
Speaker 4: and recover it and watch him fall over through my
Speaker 4: spotting scope and just be there for that experience for him.
Speaker 4: And it was like that was an absolute blast to
Speaker 4: be able to do.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So so I guess taking the next step, given
Speaker 2: how things are getting a little more difficult out there,
Speaker 2: there's there's more interest in this stuff, and I should
Speaker 2: bring up. It's not lost on me that many people
Speaker 2: will blame people like you and I BO for part
Speaker 2: of that issue, right, which is a fair that's a
Speaker 2: fair critique. I suppose we are bringing attention to these
Speaker 2: things because we love them and because we think other
Speaker 2: people would love them, appreciated them, and hopefully the hope
Speaker 2: is that if you get people out there to experience
Speaker 2: these things, they not only use the resource and hunt
Speaker 2: and do that stuff, but then they actually you know,
Speaker 2: stick up for it and stand up for your opportunities
Speaker 2: and the resource and the places. But that's a that's
Speaker 2: a tour. What I was gonna say is, given all
Speaker 2: of that, how do you go about planning where you're
Speaker 2: gonna hunt or how you're gonna hunt differently now you
Speaker 2: know that it is different in this kind of way.
Speaker 2: Has it shifted how you choose a productive region or
Speaker 2: a starting point? Has it changed your approach now given
Speaker 2: that you know this is a different world we're in,
Speaker 2: or is what you're doing what you did a decade
Speaker 2: ago still basically the same as you're doing now when
Speaker 2: it comes to picking your spots planning the hunt.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So it's it's funny.
Speaker 4: The way I looked at things ten years ago was
Speaker 4: I had my short term, my midterm, and my long
Speaker 4: term strategy. And again I'm just gonna use ELK for
Speaker 4: an example, but this can be used across the board
Speaker 4: with different species, and I'm going to tell you how
Speaker 4: that kind of has changed a little bit. But you know,
Speaker 4: I'd have my short term, which was like my over
Speaker 4: the counter states that I know I could hunt every year.
Speaker 4: I had my midterm that would take you know, three
Speaker 4: to five points to draw and be able to get
Speaker 4: a pretty decent tag. But it's not Then I'd have
Speaker 4: my long term states that were like, all right, this
Speaker 4: is my you know, if I'm looking for a big bowl,
Speaker 4: like this is what this is what I'm going for,
Speaker 4: and it may only happen two hunts in a lifetime
Speaker 4: to really be able to do that, And that's how
Speaker 4: I looked at it. Well, the short term aspect has
Speaker 4: changed where it's almost the mid term now where it's
Speaker 4: taken more of that three to five years, two or
Speaker 4: two to five years to get some of those you
Speaker 4: know over the counter in quotes, tags type tags and
Speaker 4: units that still have a bunch of hunting pressure and
Speaker 4: everything there. So I still look at that and I
Speaker 4: have those in my planning, and I still have less
Speaker 4: of the long term stuff because some of those states,
Speaker 4: I'm just trying to get as much opportunity as I
Speaker 4: can in that so instead of like shooting for the
Speaker 4: stars in some of these states, like one state I'm
Speaker 4: looking at right now to plan is New Mexico, and
Speaker 4: it's like I've always just shot for the stars every
Speaker 4: year for the best units and didn't care because it
Speaker 4: was just like a fallback type of plan. Where it's like,
Speaker 4: now I need to kind of work that into my
Speaker 4: regular cycle if I want to hunt.
Speaker 3: Elk every year or every other year and plan it.
Speaker 4: Now there's the other side of it of where I've
Speaker 4: been able to draw some decent tags in that mid
Speaker 4: level the last few years and see how much better
Speaker 4: the experience is, and it's like, man, that's that's pretty
Speaker 4: awesome and to and I don't really want to go
Speaker 4: back to having fighting you know, ridiculous crowds and doing that.
Speaker 4: So I've kind of looked at it too of And
Speaker 4: this is because I have I've had enough experience elk
Speaker 4: cunting where I don't feel like I need to go
Speaker 4: every single year to get those those reps. And I've
Speaker 4: learned enough that I know that if it takes me
Speaker 4: a couple of years to get back that, I feel
Speaker 4: still pretty good about it. Where maybe I'm going to
Speaker 4: fill that in with something that is more reachable in
Speaker 4: a different species. Maybe I've been looking at antelope punting,
Speaker 4: which I've never done before. I've looked at you know,
Speaker 4: different white tails across different regions to be able to
Speaker 4: fill that in, or tagging along with buddies or going
Speaker 4: to different places to fill those those you know, short
Speaker 4: term adventure goals. So I can still make sure that
Speaker 4: I'm doing something like that every year, but it's it's
Speaker 4: just changed. You've had I've had to get a little
Speaker 4: bit more, I guess open minded and change. It's not
Speaker 4: as is not as cut and dry of a strategy
Speaker 4: as it used to be, where it was like, all right,
Speaker 4: here are my six states I'm applying for, and here's
Speaker 4: short term, mid term, long term. It's kind of things
Speaker 4: are floating around a little bit and and god, I've
Speaker 4: I think you have to be open to trying some
Speaker 4: other different things that maybe aren't as popular or you
Speaker 4: know whatever, to to have those opportunities and continue to
Speaker 4: have those opportunities. But I think it is important to
Speaker 4: look at it in the respective.
Speaker 3: You don't want to.
Speaker 4: If you're if you're just wanting to draw good units
Speaker 4: l cunting per se and it's going to take you
Speaker 4: six seven years, Well, if you only l count every
Speaker 4: six seven years and you've never and you've never really
Speaker 4: done that, by the time you get that good tag,
Speaker 4: you're not going to know what to do or have
Speaker 4: those lessons in those experiences of doing doing it. But
Speaker 4: all of those other trips, even the white tail trips,
Speaker 4: there's a lot of the similar planning that goes into it.
Speaker 4: You know, emergency gear that you have in your truck
Speaker 4: in case something happens. Building a hunt plan, so you
Speaker 4: have multiple areas picked out in case this area has
Speaker 4: a bunch of pressure, this area has no water, or
Speaker 4: whatever the situation might be.
Speaker 3: A lot of those skills.
Speaker 4: Translate by just going out of state or out of
Speaker 4: your area and do that that can help. I don't
Speaker 4: know if that that made a lot of sense, but
Speaker 4: for me, it's it's an ever changing thing, but it
Speaker 4: definitely takes looking at a lot of options and having
Speaker 4: a plan, Like I have a spreadsheet where I have,
Speaker 4: you know, kind of the states that are deadlines, build
Speaker 4: out and kind of like all my points on there
Speaker 4: in different areas, and I'm always looking at it ahead
Speaker 4: of time to be able to plan.
Speaker 2: So one, I guess one more step beyond that then
Speaker 2: thinking a little bit more hunt strategy sort of you
Speaker 2: you alluded earlier to, you know, backpacking versus truck hunting
Speaker 2: and how you can move around, right, That's one thing
Speaker 2: that I've wondered, and You've talked to more people than
Speaker 2: I've talked to about this in recent years when it
Speaker 2: comes to going on an elk hunt these days out
Speaker 2: there or a meal deer hunt or whatever. You know,
Speaker 2: for a long time, it was always hiking as far
Speaker 2: as you can get far away from the roads, get
Speaker 2: to the deepest, darkest back country. But now everyone is
Speaker 2: a mountain monster. Everyone wants to be campaigns, everyone wants
Speaker 2: to go in ten miles, sixteen miles, twenty miles to
Speaker 2: get to the darkest hole in the Elk Woods. Have
Speaker 2: you seen yourself or have you been hearing from more
Speaker 2: folks finding that maybe maybe that's not working as well
Speaker 2: as it used to and there's maybe there is there
Speaker 2: becoming more opportunity close to the road, or is there
Speaker 2: an advantage to moving around with the car or or not.
Speaker 2: I guess I'm curious from your perspective and others, where
Speaker 2: do things stand with what's the best way to find
Speaker 2: pockets of opportunity now, given the fact that there's more
Speaker 2: intro people are more able to do this stuff and
Speaker 2: more aware of how to get into the mountains and
Speaker 2: be in good shape and can get to those spots.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll just say yes.
Speaker 4: So over the last especially in the last really since
Speaker 4: covid is, I've really changed that perspective and I've seen
Speaker 4: it where there are more people that are hiking way
Speaker 4: back in and more capable to do so and have
Speaker 4: that opportunity.
Speaker 3: And then there's still the people that are probably.
Speaker 4: Never going to leave the roads and are going to
Speaker 4: glash from the roads or maybe hike in a mile here,
Speaker 4: and there's a gap in between of of those those places.
Speaker 4: And I'll give you I'll give you a real example
Speaker 4: here this previous year in Montana, I was there hunting
Speaker 4: and our plan was I have the stuff to backpack
Speaker 4: in the truck, but I also am ready to you know,
Speaker 4: stay at the truck. And we were finding just a
Speaker 4: ton of side by sides and local people that were
Speaker 4: running the roads, glass in the pockets from the roads.
Speaker 4: We're like, all right, let's let's go back into this area.
Speaker 4: Let's backpack in. And luckily we didn't take our backpacking
Speaker 4: stuff the first time. We're just like, let's go check
Speaker 4: it out and if it's good enough, we'll make the
Speaker 4: long hike back out, and then the next day we'll
Speaker 4: carry in our stuff to do it and get in there.
Speaker 4: And it was like every peak I was seeing spot
Speaker 4: and scopes, you know, way back in worse than it
Speaker 4: was next to the road. And I'm like, man, like,
Speaker 4: what are we gonna do as far as as hunting
Speaker 4: with hunting this and what we ended up finding was
Speaker 4: there were these pockets that he only had to hike
Speaker 4: in a little ways. But if you I looked on
Speaker 4: the maps and it was like, all right, what are
Speaker 4: the areas you can't see from the road but aren't
Speaker 4: really destination places to hike back into. And that's where
Speaker 4: we ended up killing both of our bulls this past year.
Speaker 4: And Montana was like, that was what we did, was
Speaker 4: found those gaps where the people weren't And sometimes that's
Speaker 4: a floating scale of of learning it on the fly,
Speaker 4: and I think that's where it's employed when you're building
Speaker 4: up a hunt plan of areas to check out is
Speaker 4: having multiple options, having the deep options, having the mid options,
Speaker 4: and having the close options they're available, and seeing because
Speaker 4: a lot of times you don't know, and year to
Speaker 4: year that can change a lot. The area we were hunting,
Speaker 4: my cousin had hunted it the years prior and was like,
Speaker 4: man that uh, He's like, I didn't never saw this
Speaker 4: amount of pressure in here. And they were all you know,
Speaker 4: us non residents get a lot of craft for it,
Speaker 4: and they were all residents that were that were there,
Speaker 4: and it was like we had to adapt from what
Speaker 4: had worked in previous years, and it was like, all right,
Speaker 4: that that was where what we found was like all right,
Speaker 4: that mid level And then I've I've seen that in
Speaker 4: other places as well as like finding those those mid
Speaker 4: level spots and that maybe that maybe you still have
Speaker 4: to go in a little ways, but maybe it's on
Speaker 4: the backside of private or you have to loop around.
Speaker 4: It's not next to the hiking trails, because if there's
Speaker 4: a hiking trail it goes nine miles back. Even though
Speaker 4: it's nine miles, it's easier for someone to walk then
Speaker 4: if you only had to go a mile down this
Speaker 4: steep drainage and up the other side. And I think
Speaker 4: that that is something that I've learned. But being having
Speaker 4: the ability to be mobile and come back to the
Speaker 4: truck is like, I love the allure of backpack hunting,
Speaker 4: but from a success standpoint, being able to move and
Speaker 4: adapt on the fly with having a vehicle to help
Speaker 4: save your legs a little bit to move to different
Speaker 4: spots is really really beneficial.
Speaker 2: So continuing down that line of thinking and when it
Speaker 2: comes to like trying to figure out, you know, being
Speaker 2: able to get to the spots you want to get
Speaker 2: to what's realistic, what's necessary, what's not. You mentioned earlier
Speaker 2: one of the biggest things that was like an adjustment
Speaker 2: for you was was the reality of the physicality of it, Right.
Speaker 2: I think that's that's a huge thing for a lot
Speaker 2: of people trying to do this for the first time
Speaker 2: or trying to take it to the next level, is
Speaker 2: how do you make sure you're physically ready? And I'm
Speaker 2: curious about what you've found has been the reality of
Speaker 2: what's needed, Like what level of physical fitness is necessary?
Speaker 2: What do you find as a worthwhile focus area. I mean,
Speaker 2: there's this one like there's like the pinnacle, there's like
Speaker 2: this elite mountain athlete kind of thing that we see
Speaker 2: in the media ton now, and then there's like the opposite,
Speaker 2: which is the guy who drives around the side by
Speaker 2: side and steps out five feet and that's all they do.
Speaker 2: What realistically is something that someone should aim towards being
Speaker 2: able to do what's the kind of training, the kind
Speaker 2: of physical fitness level that you've found is helpful and
Speaker 2: that folks that are relatively new to this stuff should
Speaker 2: focus on. Because I guess this is a very roundabout question.
Speaker 2: Some people might look and say, like, man, there's Cameron Haynes,
Speaker 2: I'm not Cameron Haynes, or I'm not Bomartonic or I'm
Speaker 2: not whoever. I couldn't possibly do this On the flip
Speaker 2: side of those guys who spend all of their time
Speaker 2: doing bench presses and think they're gonna crush it in
Speaker 2: the mountains and then they've got great pecks, but they
Speaker 2: can't make it up the side of the mountain. Uh,
Speaker 2: where's the middle ground or where is the reality there?
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's it's a that's a that's a big question.
Speaker 4: But I'll start it with saying that I've never I've
Speaker 4: never been on a hunt and wished I was in
Speaker 4: worse shape, So like to start to start with that,
Speaker 4: I will.
Speaker 3: I will say that.
Speaker 4: But at the same respect, if you have two hours
Speaker 4: in a day and that that may be a stretch
Speaker 4: to say that you're you can put towards, you know,
Speaker 4: planning a hunt or doing something. To spend all two
Speaker 4: hours of that in the gym is probably not the best.
Speaker 4: I think consistency is important more than anything when it
Speaker 4: comes to movement and doing things. And and I've done
Speaker 4: a lot of the fitness programs that were super high
Speaker 4: intensity and and you know, I felt in really great shape.
Speaker 4: And I I've turned a little bit a buddy of mine,
Speaker 4: Todd Bumgardner. He's a trainer and he worked with me
Speaker 4: on a different approach.
Speaker 3: It's more on.
Speaker 4: Consistency and doing things that still involves strength training and
Speaker 4: involves doing things like bench press and deadlifts, but it's
Speaker 4: also just moving a lot more. And it's like, okay,
Speaker 4: if you can move seven days a week, sometimes that
Speaker 4: might be a thirty minute walk to be you're going
Speaker 4: to get yourself in a pretty good spot doing some rocking,
Speaker 4: having a little bit of diversity in there, but it
Speaker 4: doesn't have to be two hours a day of that
Speaker 4: training to make myself feel capable. And like it came
Speaker 4: down for me, it was like all right. That first year,
Speaker 4: like I said, I struggled on the fitness side with it,
Speaker 4: and I've also realized there's always going to be a
Speaker 4: level of struggle with the fitness no matter how good
Speaker 4: is shape you're in. So it's like get yourself as
Speaker 4: good as you can, but definitely don't miss out on
Speaker 4: the other things that you should be preparing for. Like
Speaker 4: for me, it was like all right, shooting when how
Speaker 4: can I take advantage of this opportunity when it comes there,
Speaker 4: Understanding the animal behavior in those areas, doing that research
Speaker 4: on that, and like, I think a lot of people
Speaker 4: put so much time into, you know, researching units and stuff,
Speaker 4: which I think is really good, but you know, typically
Speaker 4: I had heard Dustin Rose say this before about sheep hunting,
Speaker 4: and it was like, if there'sn't allotment of tags, there's
Speaker 4: going to be animals there to be able to find.
Speaker 3: It's up to you to be able to find them.
Speaker 4: And I think understanding, learning the area that you are
Speaker 4: planning on hunting once you make that decision, the what
Speaker 4: they're doing, the type of landscape where they like to bed,
Speaker 4: where they like to feed, you know, worry maybe be
Speaker 4: able to see them at doing the scouting. Planning that
Speaker 4: kind of stuff is equally as important as the physicality
Speaker 4: of it. And uh, yeah, that may be I kind
Speaker 4: of diverted there a little bit, but I think fitness
Speaker 4: is super important. I don't I don't want to relax
Speaker 4: on that, but I think being more consistent with it
Speaker 4: than overthinking the intensity and the.
Speaker 3: And and making that be a barrier to do it.
Speaker 4: And I think there's there's a part of it where
Speaker 4: like myself, I thought I was in good shape and
Speaker 4: I went out there and figured that first time, and
Speaker 4: it was also because of the unit and stuff that
Speaker 4: I picked. Now it's like, all right, you don't have
Speaker 4: some of that time. Maybe you look at some areas
Speaker 4: or some species that don't require hiking up to eleven
Speaker 4: thousand feet and through this steep stuff to be able
Speaker 4: to have that experience, get your feet wet in it,
Speaker 4: and then you know, evolve through time.
Speaker 3: When it comes to when it comes to fitness, Yeah.
Speaker 2: So the the the I guess the other part of
Speaker 2: this there's like your physical fitness, and then is your
Speaker 2: mental fitness, which sometimes might be just as important. I
Speaker 2: think on some of these Western adventures. What have you
Speaker 2: learned yourself about getting your head right, your mindset right,
Speaker 2: your attitude right on these trips? And is there anything
Speaker 2: that you have learned over this ten plus years or
Speaker 2: whatever it is that has changed how you approach that.
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, that's that's a great question. The first thing
Speaker 4: that I'll say is when it comes to the that's
Speaker 4: a you know, a buzz word, you know, mental toughness,
Speaker 4: And it's like, how do you define like even actually
Speaker 4: being able to, you know, get more mentally tough. And
Speaker 4: I think there's a lot of that in that consistency
Speaker 4: that I talked about, whether it's working out or maybe
Speaker 4: it's shooting your bow, and that you when you set
Speaker 4: these goals and even when things aren't uh, I guess
Speaker 4: it's it's even more important when things aren't convenient to
Speaker 4: be able to do so just making it happen no
Speaker 4: matter what.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: One of my goals this winner was shooting my bow
Speaker 4: every day in my basement, even if it's one shot,
Speaker 4: to be able to do so. And last night was
Speaker 4: an example. I was like, I'm like, man, I forgot
Speaker 4: to shoot my bow today. You know, it's like all right,
Speaker 4: went down, shot a couple of arrows, focused on it,
Speaker 4: did it. And I think that repetitiveness of creates that
Speaker 4: mental side of it that does help you in those
Speaker 4: situations when things don't go the way that you want
Speaker 4: it to. And I think having as much prepared as
Speaker 4: you can and again as you can to will help
Speaker 4: reduce those stressors in there. When you reduce stressors, that
Speaker 4: helps you get through those situations when when things do
Speaker 4: come up, because ultimately things are going to come up now.
Speaker 4: One thing that I've changed is I put a lot
Speaker 4: more emphasis on both food and sleep. And we hear
Speaker 4: that grind and grind and you're on these hunchs, gonta grind.
Speaker 4: You get to you get through it, and it's like
Speaker 4: you are grinding. Don't get me wrong, you're hiking a lot.
Speaker 4: But I've put a lot of emphasis on the sleep component.
Speaker 4: I have learned that in my everyday life from when
Speaker 4: I was doing the two jobs and trying to side
Speaker 4: gig the podcast and my regular I wasn't sleeping very much,
Speaker 4: and it was like I wasn't as efficient as I
Speaker 4: could have been because of I didn't have the energy.
Speaker 3: Or the focus to be able to do so.
Speaker 4: So like it's like, all right, if you have ten
Speaker 4: days to be able to hunt, day five, you're just
Speaker 4: absolutely struggling. Yeah, could you really maybe go checking out
Speaker 4: these betting areas midday? Maybe you should just take a
Speaker 4: nap and uh be able to do you know, take
Speaker 4: a little bit of a break and not feel I
Speaker 4: used to feel guilty of like I need to be
Speaker 4: doing something, I need to be doing something productive. It
Speaker 4: was like, Nope, I'm gonna you know, get some rest here.
Speaker 4: And it's like, especially if you're in a spot where
Speaker 4: you're glassing or doing something where the first light in
Speaker 4: the in the last light are super important, maybe sleeping
Speaker 4: in isn't an option, but getting some rest in that
Speaker 4: middle of the day time frame can help you there.
Speaker 4: And just putting good food in your body instead of
Speaker 4: just eating like complete trash with it, because your food
Speaker 4: and your gut health has so much impact on your
Speaker 4: brain and being able to make decisions and.
Speaker 3: For me, the.
Speaker 4: Most rest that I can be and having good food
Speaker 4: and helps me make clear decisions when things aren't going well,
Speaker 4: because you're gonna run into situations where you're not finding
Speaker 4: any animals. You war out, maybe you roll your ankle,
Speaker 4: you have some sort of adversity that causes you to
Speaker 4: be like man, maybe next year, and it's like, no,
Speaker 4: I mean think about it. All the people you've talked
Speaker 4: to from a white tail standpoint or any type of hunting,
Speaker 4: and all the people I've talked to, the most consistent
Speaker 4: thing I see of successful hunters, no matter what species,
Speaker 4: is that they don't quit and they if they haven't
Speaker 4: a lot of time, they go to the end.
Speaker 3: There's so many examples of when.
Speaker 4: You can shoot something on the last day and being
Speaker 4: able to stay to stay in the game until then
Speaker 4: is super important. And again that example in Montana from
Speaker 4: the hunt last year, it was day ten, the last
Speaker 4: day I.
Speaker 3: Could be there.
Speaker 4: I was running to I had these two younger guys
Speaker 4: that seemed to be following me around everywhere, and they
Speaker 4: went and cut me off on a stock and I
Speaker 4: was really, you know, bummed, and I was I was
Speaker 4: starting to get in a bad mental space, but I
Speaker 4: was like, nope, just stay here, keep doing it. They
Speaker 4: ended up bumping the elk ran into a position that
Speaker 4: I could put a stock on and I killed the elk,
Speaker 4: And it was like on the last day of the
Speaker 4: hunt and putting together being able to stay in the
Speaker 4: game for that instead of being like, you know what,
Speaker 4: I'm going to head back and white tail season opens
Speaker 4: here in PA, Like I can get back for that
Speaker 4: instead of missing the opening day.
Speaker 3: Like you can start to you can start to create.
Speaker 4: Things in your mind on why a situation isn't good,
Speaker 4: And like what happens to me a lot is when
Speaker 4: my alarm's going off in the morning, they're in hunting season,
Speaker 4: and I can create like thirty reasons in my head
Speaker 4: on why I shouldn't get up and why I should
Speaker 4: stay there a little bit longer. And I think, and
Speaker 4: the more you do these things, the more you learn
Speaker 4: that and are able to get over some of that stuff.
Speaker 4: There's going to be a struggle with it no matter what.
Speaker 4: But I think again, going back to recapping that sleep
Speaker 4: or just rest, putting good food in your body and
Speaker 4: trying to eliminate any of those additional.
Speaker 3: Stressors that you could have, will help.
Speaker 4: You be able to mentally get through some of those
Speaker 4: stuff situations.
Speaker 2: I want to drill into those two things a little
Speaker 2: bit more so food specifically, how are you approaching the
Speaker 2: food you eat on these trips? What are you doing
Speaker 2: to make sure you're eating good food that's giving you
Speaker 2: the fuel you need physically and mentally? Like, what specifically
Speaker 2: are you doing, How do you plan that out? What
Speaker 2: do you like?
Speaker 4: Yeah, so that's taken. That's taken a while to get
Speaker 4: that right. The first thing I learned is when you're
Speaker 4: doing something, especially a extremely physical hunt, you need more
Speaker 4: food than you think you do, and you're not going
Speaker 4: to be as hungry. You're gonna want to leave food
Speaker 4: in that bag. I put everything in a gallon ziplock
Speaker 4: bag and that's for each day. And it's like, there's
Speaker 4: so many times I don't want to eat some of
Speaker 4: the stuff that's in there, and it's like, I know
Speaker 4: I need to because I've done it before where I've
Speaker 4: got myself sick because I lost so much weight because
Speaker 4: I only had planned for twenty five hundred calories a
Speaker 4: day and it was like, all right, on a normal day,
Speaker 4: that would get me through just fine. But when you're
Speaker 4: hiking seven, eight, nine ten miles a day in rugged
Speaker 4: train with twenty thirty pounds on your back, that you're
Speaker 4: burning way more than that and you can't really fully
Speaker 4: recoup that amount of calories. But I set a calorie
Speaker 4: goal depending on the physicality of the hunt, and that's
Speaker 4: kind of where I start with. And I try to
Speaker 4: focus on proteins. And I'm not a I want to
Speaker 4: put this out there. I'm not an expert in this stuff,
Speaker 4: but this is just for me what has worked.
Speaker 3: I put.
Speaker 4: You know, I put an emphasis on protein because on
Speaker 4: the recovery side of it, I eat a lot of
Speaker 4: fats in my normal diet, so that's what I want
Speaker 4: to put fats in there, and maybe a little bit
Speaker 4: more carbohydrates that I normally would help give me a
Speaker 4: little bit of that energy. So I'm having something that
Speaker 4: I eat, you know, for and I eat throughout the day.
Speaker 4: I mean it's like almost every hour that I'm eating,
Speaker 4: just something keeping yourself fueled, not waiting until you're starving
Speaker 4: to be able to eat, and that helps me keep going.
Speaker 4: And then as far as the actual specific food I'm
Speaker 4: bringing now, most of it is pretty healthy from the
Speaker 4: per se of what you can do from a backpacking
Speaker 4: perspective or like you know, in the form of bars
Speaker 4: and different snacks there. But I also have learned that
Speaker 4: I need at least one thing a day that I
Speaker 4: just like, it doesn't even have to be healthy, that's
Speaker 4: just something that mentally I enjoy, something salty typically that I.
Speaker 2: Can treat yourself a little bit.
Speaker 4: Treat yourself and give you that that And I almost
Speaker 4: have like a goal of like I don't want to
Speaker 4: eat that first thing in the morning. I set that, like,
Speaker 4: you know, that mid afternoon timeframe of like that's what
Speaker 4: I'm going to eat that particular thing.
Speaker 3: And I play these.
Speaker 4: Mind games with myself and I've learned that my body
Speaker 4: doesn't do as well. If I get up in the
Speaker 4: morning and try to eat a big breakfast, say I
Speaker 4: have like a Heather's Choice meal or Peak Refuel meal
Speaker 4: and this big, you know, thousand calories first thing in
Speaker 4: the morning, I just don't stomach it really well. So
Speaker 4: for me, it's like, all right, I might get up,
Speaker 4: have a cup of coffee, but then hike to my
Speaker 4: glassing point or where I'm going to start hunt for
Speaker 4: an hour or an hour and a half or so,
Speaker 4: and then make that meal and have it because that's
Speaker 4: for me, that's how my body feels a little bit
Speaker 4: better with it to be able to do so. And
Speaker 4: then I'll start with that kind of like that bigger
Speaker 4: meal and then snack throughout the day, and then I'll
Speaker 4: have one big dinner when I'm back at camp at night,
Speaker 4: no matter what time that is. I make sure that
Speaker 4: I do that, And that's kind of how I structure it.
Speaker 2: So for your throughout the day snacks are those like
Speaker 2: bars or are you doing like peck your own you know,
Speaker 2: whole don't nuts, jerkys stuff like that, Like what are
Speaker 2: you specifically eating throughout the day.
Speaker 3: Uh, there's a mixture.
Speaker 4: So I'll do like like I really like the pro
Speaker 4: bar meals, the meal bars that they're high in calories
Speaker 4: and pretty good tasting. So I'll get, you know, I'll
Speaker 4: have one of those, then I'll have one of the
Speaker 4: protein bars. I'll keep one of those, and then from there,
Speaker 4: it's like a mixture of trail mix that that I like,
Speaker 4: some different nuts, some raisins that are kind of mixed
Speaker 4: in there. And then I'll do like a snackstick per se,
Speaker 4: whether it's something of my own, like I'll have snacksticks
Speaker 4: made that are like from an elk or deer that
Speaker 4: I shot that I can take those and have them,
Speaker 4: or something like those fatty meat sticks that you can
Speaker 4: have that are just I just meat. So I like
Speaker 4: having that jerky if I have it, that would be
Speaker 4: a good option. And really it's like those types of
Speaker 4: things kind of a mixture of nuts, bars and uh,
Speaker 4: and then something some sort of meat that I can
Speaker 4: have that's that can be packaged and stable to be
Speaker 4: in your backpack all day. And then and then some
Speaker 4: sort of a dried fruit. I love fruit. I eat
Speaker 4: fruit a lot on a normal basis, So whether it's
Speaker 4: like the dried banana chips or strawberry something along those lines,
Speaker 4: I'll put that in there as well. And then the
Speaker 4: last thing that that I'll do is like they're not
Speaker 4: they're they're pretty good, but they're more of just like
Speaker 4: from a straight fuel standpoint, is the packets of like
Speaker 4: a nut butter that you can squeeze and and sometimes
Speaker 4: I'll put that right on my bar is like almost
Speaker 4: like a topping on it, or I'll just eat it
Speaker 4: right out of the packet, and like a macadamia nut
Speaker 4: or peanut butter type thing. Straight peanut butter is not
Speaker 4: good for me because it sticks to the roof of
Speaker 4: my mouth and I just can't can't stomach it. But
Speaker 4: those are those are the types of things. But I
Speaker 4: try to mix it up where like a mixture of
Speaker 4: something has a little bit of that salty and then
Speaker 4: something that's you know, chocolatey and then some fruit and
Speaker 4: just try to mix it up a little bit there.
Speaker 4: And then like for the breakfast and the dinners, I'll
Speaker 4: add either olive oil to the dinners or coconut oil
Speaker 4: to the breakfast in the morning to give me some
Speaker 4: extra calories in there as well.
Speaker 3: So that's those are some of the things that I do.
Speaker 2: Okay, So then what about sleep? You mentioned the big
Speaker 2: one or a big one being you know, giving yourself
Speaker 2: permission to rest sometimes middle of the day, which which
Speaker 2: is something that I've found to applies to like my
Speaker 2: white tail rut hunts. I used to be feel like
Speaker 2: guilty if I didn't hunt the entire day every day
Speaker 2: for weeks on end. Finally kind of realized that I
Speaker 2: was getting diminishing returns, so that that resonates with me
Speaker 2: a lot. Is there anything you've found that helps you
Speaker 2: get a better night of sleep, whether it be like
Speaker 2: your sleep system, like the gear you're actually using, or
Speaker 2: anything else that just helps you sleep well and comfortably
Speaker 2: and get a full, you know, full refuel coming out
Speaker 2: of that.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So uh, I've learned to not skimp on a sleeping
Speaker 4: pad if you're sleeping like in a tent, having something
Speaker 4: even if you're backpacking that may weigh a little bit
Speaker 4: more but has some more cushion r value, some more
Speaker 4: insulation value to it. So I like to sleep on
Speaker 4: my side a lot. And if you have the super
Speaker 4: thin ones, your shoulders dig into the ground and you're
Speaker 4: constantly waking up and rolling. So making yourself be able
Speaker 4: to have a good sleep and then a pillow like
Speaker 4: I have. I think it's a seat of Summit one,
Speaker 4: but it has like a fleece on it, so it's quiet.
Speaker 3: Like some of those.
Speaker 4: Blow up pillows when you rub your head on them,
Speaker 4: it's just it's loud and annoying. And you have to
Speaker 4: wrap it with like a You can always wrap it
Speaker 4: with a shirt or something that helps. But both the
Speaker 4: sleeping pad and the pillow are our big assets to
Speaker 4: being able to do that. Now, when it comes to
Speaker 4: the truck, I have kind of a bougie system where
Speaker 4: I've got the rooftop tent on there that's got a
Speaker 4: nice pad in it, and man, is that so nice
Speaker 4: to be able to sleep in versus like the back
Speaker 4: seat or something along those lines. But figuring out whatever
Speaker 4: it is, figuring out a way to make it more
Speaker 4: comfortable for you to be able to sleep as close
Speaker 4: as you can to what it's like at home, even
Speaker 4: though it's not going to necessarily be that way, will
Speaker 4: help you in that regards. And if I have, if
Speaker 4: I have where I can, if I know I can
Speaker 4: get at least six hours, I'll take like a sleeping gummy.
Speaker 4: So like I have the they're like the mountainop slumber ones.
Speaker 3: I take those.
Speaker 4: It helps, but if I don't have six hours to
Speaker 4: be able to accumulate at night, then I'll wake up
Speaker 4: too groggy with them, So that's that, But that helps
Speaker 4: make sure I'm in kind of a deep, a deep sleep.
Speaker 4: But for the most part, I think is focusing on
Speaker 4: the you're sleeping arrangement and that you're comfortable and even
Speaker 4: like you're sleeping bag or if you're or if you're
Speaker 4: in like say a truck or you have something real blankets,
Speaker 4: whatever it is, make sure you're warm enough or not
Speaker 4: too hot. Just thinking of the situation you're going to
Speaker 4: be in and trying to make your sleep as as
Speaker 4: comfortable as possible will help you with it. And when
Speaker 4: it comes to like the midday napping, that can be
Speaker 4: difficult to get yourself in a good spot. If you're
Speaker 4: tired enough, you know you can sleep anywhere, but trying
Speaker 4: to get out of the sun, trying to find a
Speaker 4: good spot, maybe dig yourself out a little place in
Speaker 4: the side of the hill if you're on something that's
Speaker 4: somewhat steep, and I've found taking three minutes dig you
Speaker 4: out yourself out of spot is better than when I
Speaker 4: just lay down and I try to make it comfortable
Speaker 4: and trying to dig my heels in. If you've ever
Speaker 4: done that on the side, and you're like thinking you're
Speaker 4: gonna be okay, and then you keep sliding, and it's
Speaker 4: like the amount of time that you spend trying to
Speaker 4: get yourself comfortable. If you would have spent three minutes
Speaker 4: in prep work and getting yourself a nice spot, would
Speaker 4: have been would have been better. Those are some lessons
Speaker 4: I've learned with with that.
Speaker 2: It's good stuff. So one last gear question. I think
Speaker 2: gear is one thing where people can obsess and can
Speaker 2: spend tons of time researching and try and make sure
Speaker 2: they've got the perfect thing of everything. And kind of
Speaker 2: on the flip side, sometimes people will look at all
Speaker 2: the gear for a western trip of some kind and
Speaker 2: find it like cost prohibitive because they think like, oh gosh,
Speaker 2: you know, Mark's using that fancy thing, and Bozie's in
Speaker 2: that fancy thing, and this guy's got this fancy thing,
Speaker 2: and if you look at all that, it costs so
Speaker 2: much money, you know. I think oftentimes you can get
Speaker 2: away many times with something much more budget conscious and
Speaker 2: still get out there and be fine. But if there
Speaker 2: was one thing or one category of gear bowl that
Speaker 2: you'd say, like, that's the one thing I really do
Speaker 2: want to spend extra for. What would be that one
Speaker 2: type of item or category or something that you would say, like, hey,
Speaker 2: everything else you can kind of get away with mid
Speaker 2: tier budget or whatever, but this is the one thing
Speaker 2: where do your very best to buy the best you
Speaker 2: can get.
Speaker 4: I have two that but they kind of go together.
Speaker 4: I'll say I'm both here, but it'd be boots in
Speaker 4: your clothing. I think those to your boots because like,
Speaker 4: if you're you're hiking, if you don't have proper fitting boots,
Speaker 4: any footwear, whatever you're wearing, that is going to make
Speaker 4: you miserable. If you can't if your wheels on your
Speaker 4: body aren't able to move, that's that's a that's a problem.
Speaker 4: So having that and then the clothing from the temperature
Speaker 4: regulation side of it, and because it can actually be
Speaker 4: dangerous in those environments white tail hunting, I still think
Speaker 4: it's it's important, but you can get away with a
Speaker 4: little bit more because you're you know, you can get
Speaker 4: out and walk back to your truck in ten minutes
Speaker 4: sometimes and be okay again, where you're in in the mountains,
Speaker 4: you hike back in even if your truck camp and
Speaker 4: you might be a few miles away and it's difficult to.
Speaker 3: To be able to get back.
Speaker 4: So having something that can regulate temperature well and be
Speaker 4: able to do that and build just understanding layering concepts
Speaker 4: is is important. And like you know, we could look
Speaker 4: at it and again, like you know, you're you're gonna
Speaker 4: be fully kitted out and first light and have it
Speaker 4: head to toe and I'm gonna have my sica and
Speaker 4: you look at us and you're like, oh man, those
Speaker 4: guys are But when you're in those systems going to
Speaker 4: cost a lot of money, well, it's like you can
Speaker 4: build things out and still have a good clothing system
Speaker 4: without going all out right off the bat.
Speaker 3: You know, you can maybe you have.
Speaker 4: Something that's a good bass layer that's not Coughton just
Speaker 4: to begin with that you can wear and you're like, oh,
Speaker 4: I really need something that's a wind proof outer jacket
Speaker 4: or I need a rain jacket. It's like, okay, maybe
Speaker 4: I focus my money there, get by with what I have,
Speaker 4: and then once you go on these hunts, you learn like, okay,
Speaker 4: this either worked or this was like all right, this
Speaker 4: is kind of a problem, and I want to upgrade
Speaker 4: that next year. And I and I the only reason
Speaker 4: why I didn't say pack in that because that's I'd
Speaker 4: put that almost as number three. But if you're if
Speaker 4: your truck hunting, you can get away with the lesser
Speaker 4: of a pack and the only problem being the pack
Speaker 4: out of maybe being very uncomfortable, but you can get
Speaker 4: by with that a little bit more and then need
Speaker 4: to do that. Packs are definitely important. And I'm saying
Speaker 4: all this is I'm an absolutely geared nut and nerd,
Speaker 4: and I love having good gear and focusing on it.
Speaker 4: But a lot of that has come from the experience.
Speaker 4: If I was the guy before that that overthought it,
Speaker 4: bought too much of things and then realize some of
Speaker 4: that even that expensive stuff that I bought was not
Speaker 4: as good for me personally or the pursuits that I
Speaker 4: was doing, and then I had to rebuy again.
Speaker 3: Versus if I were to go out.
Speaker 4: And use something, say it was a stove, a cooking
Speaker 4: stove or something, and you're like, you went out and
Speaker 4: you figured out this lightest weight system and all these things,
Speaker 4: but realized that it didn't have any protection for the
Speaker 4: wind that was coming through it, or it would blow
Speaker 4: over if there was any wind gusts because it was
Speaker 4: so light.
Speaker 3: But if you just go out.
Speaker 4: And you do it and you try it out, it's like, Okay,
Speaker 4: this is what I need in this scenario, or these
Speaker 4: are the attributes that I need of a piece of gear,
Speaker 4: and then you can be more selective in what you're
Speaker 4: doing and learn from that. So I think learning from
Speaker 4: the pain points is helpful, but I wouldn't recommend that
Speaker 4: with your footwear or your clothing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's just pretty foundational. And I guess, speaking of
Speaker 2: being foundational, I want to zoom way out kind of
Speaker 2: back to the very beginning. I guess to end us here,
Speaker 2: and I guess ask you about the why again. Because
Speaker 2: we live in a world today where we can watch
Speaker 2: any adventure we want on YouTube or Netflix. We can
Speaker 2: see every wild, incredible natural landscape and scene on TV.
Speaker 2: We can push a button on our phone and have
Speaker 2: food delivered to our doorstep. I've got a climate controlled,
Speaker 2: comfortable place I can sit in, i can work from home,
Speaker 2: I can watch from home. I can do whatever I
Speaker 2: need here. It's safe, it's comfortable, it's relaxing. There's great
Speaker 2: thriller TV shows on Netflix to get my adrenaline boost,
Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera. We live in a world where
Speaker 2: real life adventure to some people seems more and more
Speaker 2: like an antiquated thing. Why for you is that not
Speaker 2: the case? Why do you need this kind of thing
Speaker 2: in a very real, physical, visceral way.
Speaker 4: I've seen the benefits of doing these types of hunts,
Speaker 4: these things that are hard that.
Speaker 3: Maybe you don't you don't know what the result is
Speaker 3: going to be of a lot of it.
Speaker 4: There's a lot of unknowns that comes into it when
Speaker 4: you're planning a hunt, of even the hunts that you've
Speaker 4: done before that say it's an elkon or a meal
Speaker 4: deer hunt or something this adventure style hunt. But those things,
Speaker 4: when you do them, you're constantly having to get across
Speaker 4: adversities and hurdles and things, and there's a lot of
Speaker 4: times in that moment they're not fun. I mean, we
Speaker 4: over a lot of times when we talk about these things,
Speaker 4: we build these out of these you know, mystical adventures
Speaker 4: and all these things, and looking back on it, yes
Speaker 4: they are. But in the moment, a lot of it's
Speaker 4: really difficult and really hard. And I think that prepares
Speaker 4: you so much for other things in life when they
Speaker 4: come up, whether it's you know, in your life and
Speaker 4: your family or your work, whatever it might be. You
Speaker 4: run into situations all the time. And I've learned that
Speaker 4: things that used to get me flustered don't get me
Speaker 4: as worked up anymore because it's like, Okay, let's work
Speaker 4: the problem. Let's figure out how we can get through this,
Speaker 4: because you run into that stuff all the time on
Speaker 4: a hunt, whether it is hunting pressure, or it's whether
Speaker 4: or just animals aren't running like you think they're supposed to,
Speaker 4: or whatever it might be. Run into all these things,
Speaker 4: and I think you need that to do better in
Speaker 4: these other things in life, and you appreciate those comforts
Speaker 4: so much more when you when you have them.
Speaker 3: But even even.
Speaker 4: Myself, like I I catch myself and like say right
Speaker 4: now in the wintertime of not doing as much, and
Speaker 4: it's like, I mean, I work from home, you know,
Speaker 4: I do everything here, and it's like, man, I haven't
Speaker 4: left the house or really did anything in like, you know,
Speaker 4: three days. It's like I need to and you know,
Speaker 4: working or doing stuff in my house. But it's like
Speaker 4: all right, yeah, it's cold outside, but maybe I need
Speaker 4: to go for a hike and just and then you
Speaker 4: feel so much better, You so much better after you
Speaker 4: do that, and you can you build these unnecessary stressors
Speaker 4: about that activity. I'll get to that sometimes where it's like, oh,
Speaker 4: I'm gonna go I need to go for a hike
Speaker 4: or just get outside and it's like, wow, it's cold
Speaker 4: and I got this going on. It's like, just go
Speaker 4: do it, and when you come back, you feel so much,
Speaker 4: so much better from being able to do that. And
Speaker 4: I think the whole disconnecting and getting away from all
Speaker 4: those comforts for a little while still having you know,
Speaker 4: some comforts out there, like I said, with Geer and everything,
Speaker 4: but helps so much to make your the rest of
Speaker 4: your life more fulfilled. And then you just long and
Speaker 4: think about that and have that purpose of like I
Speaker 4: can't wait to go back or try try another one
Speaker 4: of those adventures again. I can't tell you how many
Speaker 4: times I've been on hunts where they were literally miserable
Speaker 4: at times, and for some reason, I can't stop thinking
Speaker 4: about wanting to go back and try it again. And
Speaker 4: it's a it's a weird, it's a weird thing in
Speaker 4: my head. And I will say one last thing on
Speaker 4: this question. Here was an example. I went to Alaska
Speaker 4: a couple of years ago on the Doy moose hunt,
Speaker 4: and it's an absolute dream of mind to be able
Speaker 4: to do.
Speaker 3: So I'm getting dropped.
Speaker 4: Off for two weeks and at a lake and I
Speaker 4: got there, and leading up to it, it's like there
Speaker 4: was a lot of logistics and planning that went into
Speaker 4: that that ultimately they did stress me out, like trying
Speaker 4: to even with all the resources out there, it was
Speaker 4: still difficult to make it happen. And then I was
Speaker 4: so busy with trying to knowing I was gonna be
Speaker 4: one hundred percent disconnected, making sure that everything lined up
Speaker 4: with work and at home and all this stuff to
Speaker 4: be gone for that time. It took me like almost
Speaker 4: two days of being in the backcountry to not feel
Speaker 4: anxiety or stress of like the things I forgot to
Speaker 4: do or and I felt this just like you know,
Speaker 4: I'd reach from my phone and it was like there's
Speaker 4: no service, like I couldn't and it's harder to find
Speaker 4: areas that don't have that anymore. So it's like, but
Speaker 4: once I got through that, it was like, this is awesome.
Speaker 4: Like my whole everything I need to do here is
Speaker 4: figure out what I'm gonna be eaten, where I'm gonna
Speaker 4: get water from, and how I'm gonna find animals. And
Speaker 4: it's like it's pretty simple. And you run into some
Speaker 4: things again here and there, some adversities, but it's like
Speaker 4: we need that, like the Michael Easter's Comfort Crisis, like
Speaker 4: one of my favorite books, Like that is just incredible
Speaker 4: to when you think about that, we as humans need
Speaker 4: that adventure of some sort. And for me personally, it's
Speaker 4: completely changed my life. It's helped change the trajectory of
Speaker 4: everything I've done from going on that first Western hunt.
Speaker 4: And it may sound dramatic, but it was like that
Speaker 4: changed my career path. That changed how I look at
Speaker 4: every fall and the adventures and the places I got
Speaker 4: to go, the food I've got, the taste, the animals
Speaker 4: have been able to pursue, the people have been able
Speaker 4: to meet, Like it's changed everything from being able to
Speaker 4: do that, and to me, it's like, that's that's what
Speaker 4: I want.
Speaker 2: I'm right there with you, buddy, and thankfully if folks
Speaker 2: are feeling the same things you're saying and want to
Speaker 2: either do more of this stuff or try it for
Speaker 2: the first time. There's a lot more than what we've
Speaker 2: discussed here, and you've got a ton of content about it.
Speaker 2: So can you plug folks into where they can connect
Speaker 2: with you all of your content, your media, your socials.
Speaker 2: Where can they find it?
Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you, Mark. But East meets West Hunt the
Speaker 4: podcast there is where I do a lot of that,
Speaker 4: interviewing guests that are ways smarter than me, have done
Speaker 4: a lot more than myself in these categories. My YouTube
Speaker 4: channel is just Bomartonic. You can find me on social
Speaker 4: media Instagram, Facebook, Bomartonic or East meets West Hunt and
Speaker 4: then East Meetswest Hunt. Dot com is where you can
Speaker 4: really find links to everything there. So I appreciate the
Speaker 4: opportunity Mark, And honestly, this conversation just like got me
Speaker 4: fired up talking about it and planning some new stuff
Speaker 4: this year, and it's just it's great.
Speaker 2: Yes, I agree, I'm feeling the same way. I'm about
Speaker 2: to hop on a plane for a work trip that's
Speaker 2: not going on an outdoor adventure, but I plan on
Speaker 2: doing some daydreaming and thinking about an outdoor adventure and
Speaker 2: get to plan one soon. So thank you so much
Speaker 2: for taking the time and chat about this stuff. Man,
Speaker 2: it's great.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Thanks Mark, all right, and that's gonna do it today.
Speaker 2: I appreciate you being here. I hope you enjoyed this
Speaker 2: chat with myself and Bow. Until next time, Stave Wired
Speaker 2: to Hunt