1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,600 Speaker 1: Hey everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome back to work in Progress. 2 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 1: Today's guest is actor, producer, director, and one of my 3 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: very favorite good dudes, Justin Baldoni. You may recognize him 4 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: from Jane the Virgin, where he plays Raphael Solano. I 5 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: had the great fortune of popping in for an episode 6 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: in Jane's final season to work with Justin and our 7 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: sweet friend Gina and just play with all my friends 8 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: on Jane the Virgin and my goodness, playing his girlfriend 9 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 1: for an episode was such a treat, especially when his 10 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 1: lovely wife Emily brought their kids to set. Through his 11 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: work on shows like Jane and the movies that he 12 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: directs and produces and his platform, Justin brings social issues 13 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 1: to the forefront. His production company, Wayfarer Studios, has a 14 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: philanthropic arm whose mission is to bring love, dignity, and 15 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: compassion to people experiencing homelessness. Here in our hometown of 16 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:11,960 Speaker 1: Los Angeles, Justin and Wayfarer launched an incredible initiative called 17 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: the skid Row Carnival, where they bring joy to unhoused 18 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: people in our community. I highly recommend checking it out. 19 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:22,039 Speaker 1: Last year three Wayfarer Studios, Justin directed the film Clouds, 20 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:25,320 Speaker 1: which is available on Disney Plus Clouds, is based on 21 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 1: a true story and tells the tale of Zach, a 22 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 1: teenage singer songwriter who writes a song that takes the 23 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:36,680 Speaker 1: music world by storm while Zach battles with terminal cancer. Previously, 24 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: Justin directed the movie Five Feet Apart, which is hands 25 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: down one of my favorite films, and you'll learn in 26 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: this podcast makes me boo who every time I watch it. 27 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: And Justin has a new book out. It's called Man Enough, 28 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: Undefining My Masculinity. This extraordinary personal perspective of gender roles 29 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: and masculinity is a topic that Justin has been thinking 30 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 1: about for a long time. He spoke about it in 31 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: a Ted talk, He's written about it at length, and 32 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: it's something that will hopefully broaden what it means to 33 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 1: be a man and re evaluate the social norms that 34 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: work to confine us in gender roles. He's referred to 35 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,360 Speaker 1: the book as a love letter to men in which 36 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 1: he invites them to be brave enough to be vulnerable. 37 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: In my opinion, that is true masculinity. And if that 38 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 1: wasn't enough, Justin also launched a podcast based on his book, 39 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 1: The Man Enough Podcast with co hosts Jamie Heath and 40 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: Liz Plank. Clearly, Justin and I have a lot to 41 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 1: talk about, so let's dive in and hear from Justin Baldonie. 42 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 1: It's good to see you. I know, this is fun. 43 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: It's always really exciting to me when work just feels 44 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 1: like life right right, said that that's seamless integration. Yeah, 45 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: I just wish that our business was different. I just 46 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:16,360 Speaker 1: wish that we didn't always apply the lowest common denominator 47 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: and our lower nature to everything that we do, which 48 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: is why I'm so happy to talk to you today, 49 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: because you're somebody who your entire life and your whole 50 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: career has been about trying to do things for the 51 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:33,679 Speaker 1: betterment of the whole and using what you have to 52 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: amplify other people's voices and not always center yourself and 53 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: talk about things that Matter's why I think when we met, 54 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: when you came and did Jane, which was so sweet. 55 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: I'm so happy you did that. It was just like, 56 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 1: who are you, soul sister? Where have you been all 57 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: my life? Totally thank you? That's so kind, Justined. I look, 58 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 1: I think we all have a long way to go 59 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: and is always more to learn. I had this sort 60 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: of vision when you were saying that about how very 61 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 1: often in the line of work we do, it's like 62 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: the lowest common denominator sort of thought, or what's obvious 63 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: or you know what, some generic something or someone says 64 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 1: we'll sell that gets applied to what we do. And 65 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: and as you were talking about it, what I realized 66 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: is that to me, that feels like being put in 67 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,600 Speaker 1: a very small box, in a coffin, or in a 68 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:37,719 Speaker 1: straight jacket. And I have always hated that feeling. And 69 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: when that feeling began for me in my twenties on 70 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: my first show, when I was working on One Tree Hill, 71 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, I'm going to claw my way 72 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: out of this. I'm gonna rip this thing open from 73 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:51,720 Speaker 1: the inside. I cannot This is not okay. And it 74 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: didn't feel okay for me, and it was very clear 75 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,479 Speaker 1: to me that it wasn't okay for other people. And 76 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 1: you know, whether that's um the way that we can 77 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 1: be made small in the cog of you know, corporate 78 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:10,840 Speaker 1: the corporate world, which entertainment really you know, it's it's 79 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: a battle between artists, artistry and corporations, or if it's 80 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: like larger social systems that try to shrink people or 81 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:22,719 Speaker 1: step on people. I'm like, no, we have to tear 82 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 1: these things apart. And actually, I really didn't think this 83 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: was going to be my next thought, but here we 84 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: are a stream of consciousness. Because this is a part 85 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:35,159 Speaker 1: of the fun about having conversations like this with friends. 86 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't have to stick to my prep doc. 87 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: We're just going to talk. I was realizing that the 88 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 1: feeling of freedom when you start dismantling you know, your 89 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: own oppression, oppressive thoughts, or oppressive systems or social structures. 90 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 1: It feels like being in nature, like you are out 91 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: in the world, breathing air. You're you're in space. You 92 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: have space for yourself and space for others. And and 93 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: I think I think it's this sort of wide openness, 94 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 1: the green everywhere that has always made me love this 95 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,360 Speaker 1: place that we're from, that that makes me love California. 96 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: I don't know. I think falling in love with nature 97 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: here made me fall in love with the whole of America. 98 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: And it's probably the reason I love road trips so much, 99 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:24,039 Speaker 1: because I'm like, well, I just have to see everybody's nature. 100 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: I want to go out and be in nature everywhere. 101 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 1: I love that. I love that when as you were talking, 102 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 1: I've been talking to my wife a lot about this, 103 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:38,840 Speaker 1: doing a lot of um very deep therapy right now, 104 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: very deep, like doing a lot of deep inner child 105 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 1: work and really regressive, going back, really really looking at 106 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 1: the core of what happened, why I became who I am? 107 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 1: What are these unmet unmet needs that I am um 108 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: disguising as am vision. And one of the things we've 109 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: been talking about a lot is this idea of remembering 110 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 1: and as you were talking about like that kind of 111 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: that liberation or that feeling of feeling of nature. For me, 112 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: what it feels like is it's remembering our purpose, right, 113 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 1: That's what nature is. It's like, it's remembering that we 114 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: are all connected. We're all organisms and one body. We're 115 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: all you know, in the High Faith were told by 116 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: how all this says, we are the fruits of one 117 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: tree and the leaves of one branch. He takes it 118 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 1: back to nature and when you and and you look 119 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: at nature and you're like, how is this? How is 120 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 1: this possible? Because when you're when you're in nature and 121 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 1: you and you know, being so grateful now to live 122 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: in nature, uh, you know, moving from l a to 123 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 1: an hour and a half north and going out and 124 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: stepping onto the soil barefoot, or you start to see 125 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: all of the complexities of something that designed and built 126 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: this that wasn't us, and how it all works together, 127 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: and how harmonious it is and how beautiful it is, 128 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: and it's like, oh my god, that's that's it. This 129 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: is how we're supposed to be. We forgot. We've been 130 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: so distracted by our ambition and this man made world 131 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 1: we have designed that we have completely forgot what it 132 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: is to be human, which makes sense because one of 133 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 1: the Arabic words for human is in san, which translates 134 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: to they who forget. So human beings are literally insane 135 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 1: because we are beings who forget, and so that means 136 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 1: that life is about helping us remember, which is what 137 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: nature does for us. There's such a battle going on 138 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 1: right now in our national discourse about what we are 139 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 1: willing to acknowledge from our memory. Oh yeah, and I 140 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 1: I think it's so interesting when when we think about 141 00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: the cyclical nature of things, even even pandemics know this 142 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,079 Speaker 1: is a once in a hundred years kind of situation 143 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 1: to look at, you know, what began in late twenty 144 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 1: nineteen and what was happening in It's wild to me 145 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: that we are so forgetful. It's terrifying to know that, um, 146 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: you know, something like two thirds of millennials don't know 147 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 1: about the Holocaust and what happened in World War Two. 148 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: It's it's crazy to me that, you know, Texas just 149 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 1: removed a requirement to frame the teachings of the Jim 150 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 1: Crow era and the KKK as morally wrong. I'm like, 151 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 1: what could be more morally wrong than discriminating against your 152 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: neighbors than lynching your neighbors. I mean, it's it's such 153 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:49,959 Speaker 1: a crazy thing. And I've been really trying to consider 154 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: why we are so afraid to be honest about our history, 155 00:09:55,880 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: particularly when it's generations removed from us. You know, I 156 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 1: might understand why someone in the you know, nineteen sixties 157 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:06,959 Speaker 1: who was an active member of the KKK might not 158 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:08,839 Speaker 1: want it to be taught about because they don't want 159 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 1: their dirty laundry, and then then the terrible deeds they've 160 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: done to be aired to people. But for us, for 161 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: for our generation, the fact that we don't want to 162 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: lean into remembering what humans are capable of so that 163 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 1: we can choose between what we're capable of on the 164 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 1: worst end of the human spectrum. We can say we're 165 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:34,319 Speaker 1: not going to lean into that side. We want to 166 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 1: lean into what we're capable of at our best, you know, 167 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: saving children with a polio vaccine, creating technology that allowed 168 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: you know, men to go to the moon, um being 169 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: able to code in a way that means people in 170 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: the most rural parts of the world can have internet 171 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: and access to telehealth like that. That's the remembering. I 172 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: actually lizes that that's what's capable if we're willing to 173 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 1: do remembering in total. But turning away from you know, 174 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 1: the quote ugly parts of our history is essentially like 175 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 1: turning your back on yourself. It's like turning your back 176 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 1: on yourself when you are dealing with trauma and you 177 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 1: and your brain wants to protect you and it dissociates 178 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: you from your experience and you say, I'm just never 179 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 1: going to look at that and I'm going to focus 180 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: on the positive. And what you're doing is you're leaving 181 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 1: a whole piece of yourself behind and that piece is 182 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:32,839 Speaker 1: like a dead weight in the ocean. And we're doing 183 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: it as a culture, right now and it's it is 184 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 1: so surreal to me that we can't admit that. On 185 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 1: the other side of honest, remembering an acknowledgement is our 186 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 1: is our real freedom? Mm hmmm uh um. You said 187 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 1: it perfectly and beautifully. But you've got to remember we're 188 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: not doing that individual So how can we ever do 189 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: it collectively? Like we're not doing that. You you don't. 190 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 1: We're not walking around you know, I talked about the 191 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 1: therapy I'm doing right now. We're not walking around actively 192 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 1: going into our trauma. We're not doing that. We're running 193 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 1: from it. We're numbing it. Every single day. All we 194 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: do is we numb ourselves to distract ourselves from feeling 195 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 1: all of the things that we actually truly need to feel. 196 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 1: The whole world is set up as an escape. This, 197 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: this stupid thing, this phone, right, all of it, all 198 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 1: of it's an escape. The Internet, social media. Yes, there's 199 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 1: great things that happen, like you know, we can have 200 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:44,200 Speaker 1: these amazing conversations, these elevated conversations on a podcast, But 201 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: how much are we actually using all of these things 202 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: for good. We're distracting ourselves. Look at the look at 203 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: the television that gets made right, you know we You 204 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 1: and I both know. It's why I started my studio. 205 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 1: Look at the stuff that's happening in the world. We're 206 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 1: just constantly trying to make ourselves feel better about being 207 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:08,079 Speaker 1: worse people than actually kind of trying to pull us 208 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 1: up and elevate us to become better. We will it's 209 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: too painful for us to look at our trauma because 210 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: all of us have it, And how can we expect 211 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 1: us to collectively look at it if we won't do 212 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 1: the work individually? Right, That's what comes up for me 213 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 1: when when you talk about not to put words in 214 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 1: your mouth, but what it sounds like to me is 215 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 1: is this coming home to yourself? You know it wasn't 216 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:34,080 Speaker 1: what you said, but but the way you said it 217 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 1: gave me that feeling of, you know, going inward and 218 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 1: looking at your inner child and and doing this work. 219 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:44,679 Speaker 1: It makes me realize that the first question I asked 220 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: everyone who comes on the show, and I didn't ask you, 221 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,559 Speaker 1: we just dropped in is always I didn't even know. 222 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 1: I didn't even know we were filming. For the first 223 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:52,679 Speaker 1: ten minutes. I thought were just catching up. Yeah, I 224 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 1: was like, oh, I guess we're just going We're just Okay, 225 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 1: I love this, UM, But I usually I like to 226 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 1: ask people because the world knows you as this man 227 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 1: that you are, and maybe from your show, maybe from 228 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 1: a Ted talk, maybe from your book and any any 229 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: combination of those things. And you highlighted childhood. And I 230 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 1: always like to ask people, you know, were you a 231 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 1: little version of the person who sits across from me 232 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 1: today when you were eight or nine or ten, or 233 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: were you completely different? And given the conversation we're having, 234 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: I'm almost more ampt to hear your answer than I 235 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 1: have been to hear anyones. Here's what I can tell you. 236 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: It's so funny because my brain's catching up. My brain's 237 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 1: catching up, and it's like that you're not just talking 238 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 1: to your friends, Sofia, you're talking to whoever, all the 239 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: people that listen to her show. They're really lovely people. 240 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: I can only imagine you only surround yourself with those people. 241 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 1: What I yesterday, what I realized, and what I told 242 00:14:55,520 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 1: my therapist, was that I feel that little Justin is 243 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: trapped inside and just desperate to get out mm hmm. 244 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 1: And I feel that today as the man sitting in 245 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 1: front of his computer screen looking at yours, UM, and 246 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 1: so you know, I don't know what age I I 247 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 1: banished him to existence in this prison of self, but 248 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: I think it's probably probably somewhere between four and six. 249 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: I was. I'm somebody who was always told he was 250 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: too much while simultaneously being told he wasn't enough preach. 251 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 1: Oh my god, I have chills. And so that really 252 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 1: does a number on a kid. And um, you know, 253 00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: feeling like, you know, I was too much in some 254 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 1: ways for my own family, and then also feeling like 255 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: I wasn't enough in the world, and you start to 256 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 1: create a version of yourself. And as I kind of 257 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 1: joke about, as I write about in the book, like 258 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: it's so it's like it's almost like this, uh, this 259 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: lifelong science experiment where I'm beta testing which version of 260 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: me will get the best response in the field, and 261 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: then taking that response and then adjusting at home without 262 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 1: even this is not this is all subconscious, right, um, 263 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: to create whatever this version of me is. And what 264 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: I'm what I'm doing now is is asking myself really 265 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 1: difficult questions, which is which is like, you know, if 266 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 1: I was, if I was my true, sincere, authentic me, 267 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: you know, going back and looking at the history going 268 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 1: back and looking at the things that happened to me 269 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 1: that I didn't have control of, going back and and 270 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: telling that little justin that he's safe and he's okay 271 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: and it wasn't his fault, and all of the various 272 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: things that we tell our younger selves. Am I really 273 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: him right now? Or do I need to become him? 274 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 1: And in the version of becoming him, is the life 275 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:14,119 Speaker 1: that I've created for myself what he would want? Or 276 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,399 Speaker 1: is it the trauma response to the stress response to 277 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 1: become the not enough or the too much version? Right? So, um, 278 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:25,879 Speaker 1: that's kind of what I'm unpacking right now and recognizing that, wow, 279 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 1: so much of my ambition, so much of and I 280 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: think you've even said it to me. I think on set, 281 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: like how do you do it all? Like we've like 282 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:36,399 Speaker 1: so much of that. It isn't actually me. It's the 283 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 1: desperate plea to be seen as enough. Yeah. So, as 284 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 1: I wrote a book called man Enough the Jokers that 285 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: I just don't feel man enough to have written it, 286 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: and realizing as I wrote it it was in an 287 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:52,400 Speaker 1: attempt to actually be enough. How's that for a mind fuck? Oh? 288 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:54,679 Speaker 1: I get it. Someone said to me that you know 289 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 1: diet is the worst four letter word in the English language. 290 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:02,399 Speaker 1: And I kind of laughed m just like visceral response. 291 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: I was like, okay, you know, because in my head, 292 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:08,679 Speaker 1: I'm like, well, yeah, like the oppressive diet culture is terrible, 293 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: but also a person's diet, like my dog's diet is 294 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: like it's you know, we can we can disempower the word. 295 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 1: And I realized when when my friend was like, well, okay, 296 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:21,679 Speaker 1: and now I need to know your word because clearly 297 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 1: it's different, and I said, oh, hands down, for me, 298 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:27,439 Speaker 1: the word that is the most triggering in the English 299 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: language is enough. H. I find it to be deeply painful. Um. 300 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:36,879 Speaker 1: And I think that that, you know, the sort of 301 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 1: double edged sword that you can be stabbed with as 302 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 1: a young person is the duality of being told you're 303 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:45,919 Speaker 1: too much and not enough. I mean, I did an 304 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:48,880 Speaker 1: episode of my show about this. I talked about this 305 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:52,640 Speaker 1: in my early twenties with the writers on One Tree Hill, 306 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:55,879 Speaker 1: and we did a whole episode where my character, the 307 00:18:55,960 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: girl who everyone thinks has everything, stood in a classroom. 308 00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 1: I had not not smart enough, not good enough, not 309 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 1: pretty enough, not enough, all these not enough projected onto 310 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: her to symbolize how she really felt about herself. And 311 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 1: and it was so interesting feeling alone in that and 312 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:23,639 Speaker 1: then having hundreds of thousands of women and men and 313 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:28,880 Speaker 1: our non binary friends for years, I mean over a decade. Now, 314 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: right to me and tell me what that scene meant 315 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 1: to them, And I have it in community with you 316 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 1: when you share these things, and I yes, we have 317 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 1: you know, different experiences being in you know, are differently 318 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: assigned genders, and I know that affects the way we 319 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:52,120 Speaker 1: are perceived and received in the world. But when you 320 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 1: share these things, I feel seen. It's such a an 321 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 1: ethos of good storytell But it's really I think about 322 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 1: showing up well in the world, which is that the 323 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:08,440 Speaker 1: specific is deeply universal. So if we can get honest 324 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 1: about our experiences, we can realize how much we're all connected. 325 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: And and it it takes me back to what you 326 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 1: said about your faith, you know, being behind this notion 327 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:22,159 Speaker 1: that we are all fruits of one tree, all of us. 328 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 1: We're so connected in a world that, weirdly, while being 329 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: more technologically connected than ever, makes us all kind of 330 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 1: feel alone. Well that's the that's the joke. We're more 331 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 1: connected in appearance than we've ever been, and yet also 332 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 1: we feel more alone than we ever have. I can't 333 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:45,479 Speaker 1: think of one segment of the population, Like there's all 334 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:47,879 Speaker 1: these different kind of like subgroups. And you know, my 335 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: wife works with moms a lot, she has her company Amah, 336 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 1: and they, you know, they're really building a community of 337 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:56,159 Speaker 1: moms to support moms in their first few years of 338 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:01,679 Speaker 1: pregnancy and then and then you know, bearing children and 339 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 1: then and then you just look at that group and 340 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:09,439 Speaker 1: you see like we've lost our away. Moms are completely alone, 341 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:12,920 Speaker 1: right you look at you look at men, you look 342 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:18,119 Speaker 1: at the labor force. These men are completely lonely. They 343 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 1: have no one to talk to, they have they're they're 344 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:22,920 Speaker 1: suffering from depression and isolation. And yet they don't even 345 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: have the language too to talk about it because they've 346 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 1: never been asked how they feel, so they don't even 347 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,439 Speaker 1: know that they're suffering, and they're just angry, you know. 348 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,199 Speaker 1: You you you you look at alcoholics and folks in the 349 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 1: recovery programs, these are some of the only people that 350 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: I know that feel like they have a sense of 351 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 1: community right now. Um, because and then you look at 352 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:44,159 Speaker 1: all like you look at teachers, unions, and you look 353 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 1: at like all of like our entire world has been 354 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 1: fragmented to these different subgroups of people that feel like 355 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 1: they have nobody, that they're alone. Everywe and that's everywhere 356 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:58,199 Speaker 1: that I look and um and so yeah, we're super 357 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 1: connected and yet we're more alone and we've ever been 358 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:07,200 Speaker 1: because we've lost community, you know. Um. So yeah, that's 359 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 1: a that's a that's a really really deep and and 360 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,439 Speaker 1: true statement. Um. I only I only remember what you 361 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,120 Speaker 1: were if you asked anything, or what you're talking about 362 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,159 Speaker 1: right before that. But I just got me thinking about 363 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 1: all the people that I know who are so lonely 364 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:25,719 Speaker 1: right now. Oh, this is what this is one thing 365 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: that I was gonna say when you said that you 366 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 1: felt seen, you know, one of the sweetest things, one 367 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: of the sweetest responses from from the book has been 368 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: from hearing from people who couldn't be more different. Um. 369 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 1: And I saved this message but at a friend of mine. 370 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 1: He is fifty year old trans man Black Transmit, and 371 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:51,120 Speaker 1: I wrote about him a little bit in the book 372 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: when he said I I've never felt more seen I'm 373 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,679 Speaker 1: and he was finished it and he was crying in it. 374 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 1: And I had to take a second because I started 375 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 1: judging myself at first, and then I recognized and realized, 376 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: oh my god, that's the whole point. Like it doesn't 377 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 1: matter what body he was born into or what the 378 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: color of his skin is. We're all raised in the 379 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:22,959 Speaker 1: same system. We all suffer in different but also identical ways, 380 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:27,440 Speaker 1: and we're all craving, as you said, like the storytelling 381 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:32,159 Speaker 1: of our of our and we're craving that shared vulnerability. 382 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: We're craving somebody to come out and say like, hey, 383 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,360 Speaker 1: I'm you like what you did in in One Tree Hill, 384 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:39,640 Speaker 1: you see me this way, But this is what's actually, 385 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 1: this is what I'm projecting. This is what I'm feeling, 386 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,879 Speaker 1: because we all just project our images of what how 387 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 1: happy you must be, you know this and all this, 388 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: and then go back to our rooms at night and 389 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 1: we distract ourselves with social media or whatever we're looking 390 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:57,119 Speaker 1: at or and then we feel alone. And then we 391 00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 1: wake up the next morning and we try to go 392 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:00,359 Speaker 1: out of bed and we feel like there's a thousand 393 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 1: pounds weight on our chest and we don't know why. 394 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 1: You know, what's so interesting to me about your reaction 395 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:10,680 Speaker 1: to your friend telling you he felt seen. You can 396 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 1: recognize all of the intersectional weights that exist on his shoulders, 397 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,120 Speaker 1: and it reminds me of what we were talking about earlier, 398 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 1: where when you exist in a position of or you 399 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 1: perceived position of privilege, what is often not acknowledged is 400 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 1: that it gets very easy to dissociate from your own 401 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 1: suffering or feelings because you think, well, I have no 402 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 1: right to feel this way because look what my friend 403 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:41,640 Speaker 1: deals with. I don't have a right to. I feel 404 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 1: like I'm struggling because look at what this other group 405 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:45,920 Speaker 1: deals with. It's so much worse than what I do 406 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 1: and what I actually what's what's illuminating for me in 407 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 1: this moment is that that's one of the problems I 408 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,920 Speaker 1: think about how we're talking about privilege. Oh god, I'm 409 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 1: so happy you went there, because that is yes, you're right, 410 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:05,920 Speaker 1: agree completely, because here's the issue is the way, and look, 411 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 1: the way it's talked about is talked about in a 412 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 1: narrative to serve the people whose privilege wants to be preserved. 413 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: So when you look at pundits who are like, oh, well, 414 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:22,640 Speaker 1: where's my privilege card, like they're trying to do gotcha bs, 415 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:28,639 Speaker 1: inflammatory nonsense, it's well, exactly, they don't want to have 416 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 1: real conversations about it. But what I what I would 417 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:36,119 Speaker 1: encourage anyone to think about and and maybe to like, 418 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:37,719 Speaker 1: you know, this could go and your little tool kit 419 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:39,600 Speaker 1: I always talk about like I've got a tool kid 420 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: or a backpack and I just like collect all the 421 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 1: good things to have resources um and and I think 422 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,879 Speaker 1: what should go in our tool kits is and this 423 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 1: would help us to talking about our relative privilege. Right 424 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: is to say, rather than oh, well, show me where 425 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 1: my privilege got me out of this or this feeling 426 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 1: or whatever. Rather than that, to say, I can acknowledge 427 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 1: that I live in our current world in a privileged group, 428 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,159 Speaker 1: and I can hold how much I've been through the 429 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 1: ways in which I've been violated, the ways in which 430 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 1: I've suffered. I can hold space for my trauma. And 431 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: if I know how hard I've had it, it knocks 432 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,400 Speaker 1: the wind out of me to think about how much 433 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:32,640 Speaker 1: harder some of our friends have had it. Like your 434 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 1: friend who is a fifty year old black transman, the 435 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 1: intersections of things he goes through, the the number more 436 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 1: hurdles that he has had put in his path. I 437 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,880 Speaker 1: know how hard my hurdles have been to jump. So 438 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 1: what what I would encourage for any of us is 439 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 1: rather than weaponizing this notion of privilege meaning you got 440 00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:00,200 Speaker 1: something you know that you didn't earn, or that your 441 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 1: life hasn't been hard, what it should do for us 442 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: is allow us to own where we stand and hold 443 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 1: space that we happen to stand much further along the 444 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,880 Speaker 1: line than a lot of other people who have been 445 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: held back because they don't have the relative privileges that 446 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,399 Speaker 1: we do. I actually think that understanding privilege should be 447 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 1: a a doorway to creating lifelines to others, rather than 448 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 1: uh some like proving ground or pissing contest where we're 449 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,920 Speaker 1: supposed to prove that we've we've earned every single thing 450 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: we have, Like, yeah, we've all worked really hard, but 451 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: not but some of us haven't had as many literal 452 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 1: obstacles thrown in our way, Like we haven't had the 453 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 1: action movie sequence of when someone's running away from the 454 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,679 Speaker 1: bad guy and they keep knocking over bookshelves, like I 455 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:56,439 Speaker 1: haven't had as many bookshelves tossed in my path. And 456 00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:00,360 Speaker 1: it's it doesn't actually hurt me or my worth or 457 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 1: how hard I've worked or how creative I am or 458 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 1: whatever to admit that what it should do is create 459 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 1: greater empathy for others and a willingness to see the 460 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 1: particulars of other people's experience. That that would be my 461 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:19,720 Speaker 1: hope for how we could reframe this conversation because it's 462 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 1: been like hijacked by you know, clickbait nonsense, and it's 463 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 1: not it's been hijacked by identity politics. I would add, 464 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 1: I think that my version of that is, I think 465 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 1: the purpose of recognizing privileges to build a bridge too, 466 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 1: empathy and compassion. That's it. That's a better analogy than 467 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: the doorway and the rope thing. No, no, no no, but 468 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,160 Speaker 1: it's a doorway bridge. It's it's that's the purpose of it, right. 469 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 1: And but my wife said something to me, if you 470 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 1: can't tell, I learned probably most from my wife. We're 471 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 1: an she's amazing. But she said she had she had 472 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 1: this download if you will, and we were talking about 473 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 1: this and she said, I really think that we've lost 474 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 1: our way and that the greatest activism is self activism. 475 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 1: M because you can't have compassion or empathy for another 476 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 1: person or marginalized group until you have compassion for yourself. 477 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,880 Speaker 1: So in many ways you have to engage in a 478 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 1: radical form of self activism and allow yourself to feel 479 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: all the things you need to feel, go into your traumas, 480 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 1: go into your past and say like, oh wait, I 481 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 1: went through this in order to even have compassion or 482 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,080 Speaker 1: empathy for somebody else and what they're going through and 483 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 1: recognize where you are. So that self activism is so important. 484 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 1: I will say it was so much of my activism 485 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 1: for community that led me to that for myself, because 486 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:01,479 Speaker 1: I realized there was an incongruency and how much grace 487 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 1: and love and like ferocious defense I could give to 488 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 1: others and how I always put myself last. And and 489 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 1: it was actually through realizing how well I love other 490 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:19,480 Speaker 1: people that I had to start learning to love myself 491 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 1: a little bit better. And interestingly, what that enabled for 492 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 1: me was this expansion of grace because in trying to 493 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 1: apply some of that kindness to myself, I also realized 494 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: that the way in which I love, which is big 495 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 1: and hard and ferocious and like I'll go to the 496 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: ends of the earth for someone, like everyone always jokes that, 497 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 1: and please don't actually call me if you do something 498 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: like this, But you know, everyone in my in my 499 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:52,959 Speaker 1: friend group always jokes like, oh, if we ever had 500 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 1: to bury a body we call so like, no question, 501 00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 1: she's just the person who would show up for you, 502 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 1: literally no matter what and should have Yeah, And I'm like, well, 503 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 1: I would rather not be about murder. I would rather 504 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 1: just be about anything else. But I get that. It's like, 505 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 1: you know, it's a phrase. Um, it's a cliche for 506 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 1: a reason, because it's fun to say. But I realized 507 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 1: that in offering myself more kindness, I also had to 508 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: give a little space and say, oh yeah, not everyone 509 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:25,200 Speaker 1: loves and shows up to my standard. And what that 510 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 1: enabled for me then was it gave me the permission 511 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 1: to create better boundaries. I cut a whole superfluous swath 512 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 1: of people, not cruelly or whatever, but just was like, 513 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 1: you know what, we don't show up in the same way, 514 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 1: and that's okay. But I only have so much time, 515 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 1: and I am only going to prioritize with my whole 516 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 1: heart the people who are in my life with their 517 00:31:54,800 --> 00:32:00,120 Speaker 1: whole hearts, and everyone else can go from like being 518 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 1: on the inside to being an acquaintance. And that's great. 519 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:07,280 Speaker 1: I love all my acquaintances. They're lovely. But that was 520 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: a sort of byproduct of applying community love to self 521 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 1: that I didn't I didn't expect. That was a surprise, 522 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:20,480 Speaker 1: the lesson of being clearer about my boundaries and not 523 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:22,600 Speaker 1: just giving all my love a way. But a lot 524 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 1: of that also comes from and I don't know your 525 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: personal work here, but I know with my stuff that 526 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:36,240 Speaker 1: that comes down to our trauma disguised as fill in 527 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:41,680 Speaker 1: the blank, because so often for people and look, you 528 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:43,360 Speaker 1: and I are very similar in this way. My wife 529 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 1: in her vows to me, she actually, you know, said 530 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:48,840 Speaker 1: she's so grateful for a man who would be willing 531 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 1: to do pretty much everything you just said, except she 532 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 1: didn't say buried body. Um. And because that's how I've 533 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 1: been living, that's how that's that's in the same way, 534 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 1: my love is so big it'll fill up a town, 535 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 1: it'll fill up a community, it'll fill up my everyone 536 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 1: else's house except my own. And and what I've learned 537 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 1: similar to you, is, oh wait, I forgot to love 538 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 1: myself first. I have been loving everybody else. I've had 539 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 1: all this love to give, but I haven't been giving 540 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: that same love to that little justin that we were 541 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 1: talking about earlier, which is which then goes to show 542 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:30,959 Speaker 1: for me, well, a lot of the love that I 543 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 1: was giving wasn't truly unconditional pure love I might have 544 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,720 Speaker 1: thought it was. What it was was still my desire 545 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:43,239 Speaker 1: and want to be enough because my love made other 546 00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:45,080 Speaker 1: people feel that way, and in turn, I was able 547 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 1: to then feel loved when in reality, that first place 548 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 1: that I should have I should be going, And now 549 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 1: what I'm doing is starting to love the person I 550 00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 1: am without all of that, And that also then leads 551 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 1: to the same place you just went to, which is 552 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 1: boundaries um boundaries for work, boundaries for do I really 553 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 1: need to take that job? Do I really need to 554 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 1: do this this person? Is it the same as it 555 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,480 Speaker 1: is it reciprocal? Am I filled up as much? And 556 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,319 Speaker 1: and you start to have to take stock of your 557 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,319 Speaker 1: life in that way. And I'm thirty seven years old now, 558 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:20,320 Speaker 1: and I can't believe that this is really one of 559 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 1: the first times that I've been I've started doing that 560 00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 1: in a meaningful way. But that couldn't happen without that righteous, 561 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 1: radical active self activism and like actually going in and 562 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 1: doing that work. Because on the appearance everything is fine. 563 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:40,279 Speaker 1: I'm arguably happier than my parents and their parents and 564 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,000 Speaker 1: their parents. Right I have my kids and my wife. 565 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,360 Speaker 1: Everything's great, But is that enough? Like is that what 566 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:50,920 Speaker 1: this life is all about? There's more well, and that's 567 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:57,280 Speaker 1: just it? Why why do we measure at this moment 568 00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 1: where we are more connected, where we know more about 569 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:03,319 Speaker 1: the rain and its development and trauma and love and 570 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:08,399 Speaker 1: happiness and oxytocin and psychology and child imprinting. And our 571 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:10,960 Speaker 1: parents didn't know any of the ship we know now, 572 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,920 Speaker 1: and our grand parents certainly didn't. So this idea that 573 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,040 Speaker 1: we are the generation with more information and access than 574 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:20,840 Speaker 1: ever before, and we're supposed to settle for being marginally 575 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:24,480 Speaker 1: more happy than the people who were born fifty years 576 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:28,560 Speaker 1: before us. Like, No, I don't settle for that. I 577 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 1: want us to level up. And that doesn't mean we 578 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:36,880 Speaker 1: judge what came before. You know, I thought that was 579 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 1: something that was so beautiful. Um in your ted talk 580 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:45,120 Speaker 1: when you when you acknowledged your dad and you talked 581 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:48,799 Speaker 1: about the deep love between you and how much you 582 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:53,960 Speaker 1: admire him, and also how your child brain really resented 583 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:57,480 Speaker 1: him and his sensitivity because because you know, to that 584 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:05,560 Speaker 1: that little boy, he wasn't masked ellen enough. And I 585 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:10,600 Speaker 1: understand the evolution of those years in those generations, and 586 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:14,279 Speaker 1: I want for us to have opportunities each of us 587 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:16,799 Speaker 1: like the one you've created in your own family, where 588 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,400 Speaker 1: you say, I see why I thought that, and I 589 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:21,360 Speaker 1: see why my dad when he was little thought that, 590 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:23,279 Speaker 1: and I see why my granddad might have taught my 591 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:25,960 Speaker 1: dad this. And I want to do better for all 592 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,360 Speaker 1: of us. And you have a better relationship with your 593 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:31,600 Speaker 1: dad than ever. And he just he actually just came 594 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:35,359 Speaker 1: on our podcast and I had a public conversation with 595 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 1: him that was so powerful and also healing for me, 596 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:46,719 Speaker 1: m because most most of us men haven't had that conversation. Right. 597 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:49,319 Speaker 1: Can you tell the folks at home a little bit 598 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,640 Speaker 1: about these dynamics, because I realized I sound like your 599 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:55,040 Speaker 1: ultimate like fanboy or researchers. I'm like, well, and then 600 00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:57,160 Speaker 1: when you said this to your dad and maybe something 601 00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:00,760 Speaker 1: listening to us talk, I haven't heard the part of 602 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:02,880 Speaker 1: the talk yet. First of all, First of all, if 603 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:06,040 Speaker 1: you're still here listening, thank you for hanging out and watching. 604 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,759 Speaker 1: Sophie and I just catch up. Uh yeah, So what 605 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,600 Speaker 1: I read about in uh Man enough and what you're 606 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,319 Speaker 1: mentioning and the Ted talk is really this idea that 607 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 1: masculinity has passed down from generation to generation, and that 608 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:23,600 Speaker 1: there are an unspoken, unwritten set of laws, code of conduct, 609 00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 1: if you will, that all men must adhere to for 610 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:34,359 Speaker 1: fear of having our masculinity, our identity taken away. Which 611 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:40,719 Speaker 1: is the masculinity conundrum, right, It is something that can 612 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:48,000 Speaker 1: be literally taken away. Femininity doesn't work that way. Masculinity 613 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:52,840 Speaker 1: is such that, uh, somehow, somewhere, somebody can decide that 614 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,440 Speaker 1: I'm not a man, or I'm not acting in accordance 615 00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,000 Speaker 1: with the code of laws that were passed down um. 616 00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:03,400 Speaker 1: And these laws, the man box, if you will, are 617 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,960 Speaker 1: the is this thing that governs are very existence right 618 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,279 Speaker 1: in this patriarchal system in society that we live in, 619 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,759 Speaker 1: and it is also the thing that creates the most 620 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,640 Speaker 1: suffering for us. So on my journey, I tried to 621 00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,320 Speaker 1: understand where I learned the things that I learned, such 622 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:25,680 Speaker 1: as why I have such a hard time being truly 623 00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:29,000 Speaker 1: open and vulnerable with other men or other people. Where 624 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,959 Speaker 1: does that come from? Uh? Well, it comes from my dad. 625 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,920 Speaker 1: Because I never saw my dad ever share things that 626 00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:39,480 Speaker 1: weren't good. I my dad never confessed to me that 627 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,760 Speaker 1: he was struggling. I never saw him admit to weakness. 628 00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:46,080 Speaker 1: I saw him cry and show emotion. But as I 629 00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,880 Speaker 1: write about, there's a difference between being emotional and vulnerable. 630 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,880 Speaker 1: And he raised me in a way where he was, 631 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:58,760 Speaker 1: you know, as we raise as many men raise their children, 632 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,040 Speaker 1: like men are all knowing. We have to be all knowing, 633 00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,880 Speaker 1: we have to be all wise, we have to be impenetrable, 634 00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:08,719 Speaker 1: perfect providers and you you name it. That was how 635 00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:11,480 Speaker 1: my dad brought me up. The difference was is that 636 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:14,680 Speaker 1: he also was extremely sensitive and compassionate and empathetic and 637 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,440 Speaker 1: kind and service oriented. Right, But he had all of 638 00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:22,440 Speaker 1: those stereotypical masculine qualities. And in my research and talking 639 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 1: to him in my family, I had learned he got 640 00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,280 Speaker 1: those from his dad, you know. And and the deeper 641 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,680 Speaker 1: you dig, the more you actually just end up having 642 00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:35,080 Speaker 1: compassion and empathy for your parents or their parents because 643 00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 1: of what they went through when they were children. Because 644 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:42,040 Speaker 1: they didn't have the wherewithal or the knowledge or the 645 00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,120 Speaker 1: books to do some of the work that we're doing, 646 00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:47,839 Speaker 1: this this radical activism of self work. They didn't do 647 00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,360 Speaker 1: that because it wasn't it wasn't in the zeitgeist. It 648 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,400 Speaker 1: wasn't a thing that necessarily that people were doing except 649 00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:56,719 Speaker 1: for you know, a few Um, so that was kind 650 00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:59,960 Speaker 1: of the journey. I think what you're kind of referencing. 651 00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:02,239 Speaker 1: But but the one thing I want to bring up 652 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,080 Speaker 1: that that you talked about earlier, and I want to 653 00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:07,239 Speaker 1: bring it back to my faith in this way, is 654 00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,160 Speaker 1: that all of this stuff like why we want this, 655 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:12,560 Speaker 1: why we want generations to be better, why we want 656 00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:14,520 Speaker 1: to be better than our parents, we want our children 657 00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:18,560 Speaker 1: to be better than us, It's got to it's got 658 00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:21,439 Speaker 1: to come back to the whole. It's got to come 659 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:25,040 Speaker 1: back to this idea. In the faith, were told that 660 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:31,120 Speaker 1: the unity has to start in the home. You can't 661 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:34,000 Speaker 1: just have this idea of unity and peace and throw 662 00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,759 Speaker 1: it out and broadcast it over radio signals to everybody. 663 00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:41,440 Speaker 1: It's got to start in the home. And only when 664 00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:43,640 Speaker 1: it can be established in the home can it spread 665 00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:46,920 Speaker 1: to the street. Then can it spread to the neighborhood 666 00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,400 Speaker 1: and the community, And then can it spread to the 667 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:53,200 Speaker 1: county or the city, and then the state and then 668 00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:57,440 Speaker 1: the country and then eventually the world. So it's actually 669 00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:01,120 Speaker 1: a very small like we're were raised in a culture, 670 00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:03,920 Speaker 1: in a society that that awards us for being big, 671 00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:07,839 Speaker 1: Like everything's gonna be big how many social followers you've got, 672 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:10,239 Speaker 1: like you know who's watching your you know how many 673 00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:14,480 Speaker 1: podcasts listener because biggest tied to monetary game and fame 674 00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:16,839 Speaker 1: and all of these types of things. But but the 675 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:20,640 Speaker 1: smallness in this activism, the smallness in going in and 676 00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:22,600 Speaker 1: doing this work to become better than our parents, of 677 00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:26,719 Speaker 1: like just tearing our insides out to figure out why 678 00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:29,640 Speaker 1: we are the way that we are is the prerequisite, 679 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:33,080 Speaker 1: the precursor to unity. That's why we have to be 680 00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:36,360 Speaker 1: doing this. It can't just be because I want my 681 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:38,520 Speaker 1: kid to grow up better than me. It's because I 682 00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:40,440 Speaker 1: want at the end of my life, I want to 683 00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:42,160 Speaker 1: get to a place where I look at my life 684 00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:45,680 Speaker 1: and I didn't leave anything on the table. I don't 685 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:47,840 Speaker 1: want to have regrets and like I didn't talk to 686 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:49,440 Speaker 1: my dad about this, I didn't talk to my son 687 00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:51,520 Speaker 1: about that. I didn't show up there. If I'm thinking 688 00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:53,719 Speaker 1: about it and there's something stopping me from doing it, 689 00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,200 Speaker 1: then I have to go to that uncomfortable dark place 690 00:41:56,480 --> 00:42:00,000 Speaker 1: and figure out what's stopping me so that I can 691 00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:01,879 Speaker 1: pass that on to my son, so that my son 692 00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:04,560 Speaker 1: can grow up and he can or my daughter can 693 00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:08,480 Speaker 1: grow up and she can have the ability to see 694 00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:11,560 Speaker 1: clearer than I could, so that then she has less 695 00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:14,520 Speaker 1: resistance to doing that self works for the reason that 696 00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:17,719 Speaker 1: she can take that out into the community, take that 697 00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,920 Speaker 1: out into the world, see people with empathy and compassion 698 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:25,200 Speaker 1: not have the same road blocks and barriers privilege that 699 00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,920 Speaker 1: maybe we had because we couldn't see it. Um. So 700 00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,160 Speaker 1: it's just tying it all back to like kind of 701 00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:32,520 Speaker 1: what you bring it all the way back to the 702 00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:35,480 Speaker 1: beginning to conversation, which is like, why we can't address 703 00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:37,640 Speaker 1: our history? Why can't we look at this stuff? Why 704 00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:41,920 Speaker 1: can't we move forward while recognizing we committed wrongs and 705 00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:45,840 Speaker 1: errors and use those as learning experiences, And this is 706 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,440 Speaker 1: where that work is. It all comes back to that, 707 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:52,239 Speaker 1: because it's so easy to look at another person and 708 00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:54,920 Speaker 1: say you are so much more than the worst thing 709 00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:58,920 Speaker 1: you ever did or your worst day who cares? But 710 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,680 Speaker 1: with ourselves it can be so hard. And I find 711 00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:06,640 Speaker 1: it so fascinating that it's been this sort of study 712 00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:11,920 Speaker 1: and pulling a part of masculinity that is really brought 713 00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:16,160 Speaker 1: you here. And and I wonder you know when when 714 00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:19,200 Speaker 1: you talk about learning and on learning those gender roles 715 00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:21,799 Speaker 1: within your own family and household and how you want 716 00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:25,960 Speaker 1: to do them differently for your kids. How does work 717 00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:30,360 Speaker 1: intersect with this stuff, because, as we mentioned in the beginning, 718 00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:35,240 Speaker 1: we really get men and women obviously in our industry, 719 00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,600 Speaker 1: you know, I think again women have it to a multiplier, 720 00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:41,360 Speaker 1: but a lot of people ignore how much it happens 721 00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:45,359 Speaker 1: to men. We get so objectified and com modified, were 722 00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:50,640 Speaker 1: treated like objects rather than people. Um, you know, the 723 00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:52,960 Speaker 1: worst of it is when you're told you exists for 724 00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:56,520 Speaker 1: other people's pleasure rather than you know, for your own personhood. 725 00:43:57,040 --> 00:44:00,600 Speaker 1: So how do the roles that you've landed an actor 726 00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:04,359 Speaker 1: and and what those things can revolve around? How does 727 00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:11,080 Speaker 1: that impact you in this unpacking? Well, look, I I 728 00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:14,200 Speaker 1: am I haven't been as fortunate as you and that 729 00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:18,480 Speaker 1: I haven't gotten to choose my roles as an actor 730 00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:24,279 Speaker 1: in that way, which is it's really just been Uh yes, 731 00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:28,080 Speaker 1: that's so rare for your Sophia Bush. I mean, you're 732 00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:30,719 Speaker 1: very kind, but I don't think that I I have 733 00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:32,880 Speaker 1: a ton of choice. I yes, so like to a 734 00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,759 Speaker 1: certain extent. And that's the thing about this business. I 735 00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:38,920 Speaker 1: was actually talking to another friend who's an actor today 736 00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:41,000 Speaker 1: about this. It's like, no matter how successful you get 737 00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:42,800 Speaker 1: there's a part of you that feels like you're failing 738 00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:47,120 Speaker 1: because because because maybe because you can't just choose, right. 739 00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:50,040 Speaker 1: So I haven't actually had a choice. I wasn't even 740 00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:52,760 Speaker 1: acting when I got Jane the Virgin. I was building 741 00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,399 Speaker 1: my company and starting I was directing. I was behind 742 00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,480 Speaker 1: the camera, but spent years doing a documentary series called 743 00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:00,319 Speaker 1: My Last Days, where I traveled the country. I told 744 00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:02,560 Speaker 1: the stories of amazing people who were dying of a 745 00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:06,160 Speaker 1: terminal illness but living amazing lives because that's where, like, 746 00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:08,360 Speaker 1: that's where my heart wanted me to be. And and 747 00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:11,800 Speaker 1: so I gave up by abandoned acting and jumped into 748 00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:13,880 Speaker 1: that and that fulfilled me, and that's kind of what 749 00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:15,759 Speaker 1: led to start to build all of this. And then 750 00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:19,759 Speaker 1: when Jane the Virgin popped up, I jumped in and 751 00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:22,320 Speaker 1: I got it, you know, but like anything else, it 752 00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:23,719 Speaker 1: was me and a bunch of guys, and I was 753 00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:26,600 Speaker 1: the lucky one to get it, And and then it 754 00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:28,760 Speaker 1: was the conscious choice to then use that to build 755 00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:33,600 Speaker 1: all of this. So I haven't acted since Jane Um. 756 00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:36,600 Speaker 1: I haven't been in front of a camera really taking roles. 757 00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:38,719 Speaker 1: Or I also haven't had a ton thrown at me 758 00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:41,360 Speaker 1: because I'm very you know, I've really been focused on 759 00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:45,280 Speaker 1: creating content as a filmmaker. But where I think work, 760 00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:50,160 Speaker 1: more than anything comes into play is that I really struggle. 761 00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:52,640 Speaker 1: And it's not exactly an answer to your question, but 762 00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:56,080 Speaker 1: where I really struggle isn't so much as like the 763 00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:58,680 Speaker 1: roles that I play as an actor or will play, 764 00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:00,920 Speaker 1: or even necessarily the holms that I'm going to produce 765 00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:05,600 Speaker 1: or direct. My relationship with work is that I am 766 00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,800 Speaker 1: learning and trying to figure out on a daily basis 767 00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:13,320 Speaker 1: um what work really means to me. What I believe 768 00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:15,680 Speaker 1: and what I was raised to believe in my faith 769 00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:17,880 Speaker 1: is that your work should be a form of service 770 00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:22,480 Speaker 1: to humanity. Now that doesn't mean that you need to 771 00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:26,200 Speaker 1: become famous, that doesn't mean that your work should be 772 00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:30,680 Speaker 1: something that serves a ton of people. Whatever your work is, 773 00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:33,720 Speaker 1: if you approach it with an intention to be of service, 774 00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:39,000 Speaker 1: that is a prayer. And and so my what I'm 775 00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:42,800 Speaker 1: trying to figure out now in this strange, capitalistic, weird 776 00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:45,319 Speaker 1: business that we're in where art and as you like 777 00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:49,040 Speaker 1: we talked about earlier commerce intersect, is how to actually 778 00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:54,000 Speaker 1: enjoy my life and have it not be about work, 779 00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:58,680 Speaker 1: Because One of the things I know from spending time 780 00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:03,760 Speaker 1: with so many people on their deathbed and having deeply 781 00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:08,200 Speaker 1: intimate conversations with friends just before they pass, is that 782 00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:12,480 Speaker 1: nobody ever says I wish this, I wish I worked more. Yeah, 783 00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:16,399 Speaker 1: And and I have two little kids and they're growing 784 00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:19,480 Speaker 1: up faster. I mean everybody, everybody would joke, Oh, they're 785 00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:21,840 Speaker 1: gonna it's gonna go by so fast. I didn't realize 786 00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:25,720 Speaker 1: how cruel of a joke it really was. And honestly, 787 00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:27,520 Speaker 1: I feel like I've missed a lot of it. In 788 00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:30,560 Speaker 1: some ways. That's just the way that it works, right, 789 00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:32,440 Speaker 1: because this is the system that we're in and we 790 00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:34,640 Speaker 1: have to work. This is a part of it. But 791 00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:39,120 Speaker 1: at the same time, UM, I have a choice. When 792 00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:43,239 Speaker 1: do I turn off? When can I decide where's my boundary? 793 00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:45,640 Speaker 1: As we talked about earlier with boundaries, where's my boundary 794 00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:49,080 Speaker 1: with work? Where where is that line where I'm no 795 00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:51,239 Speaker 1: longer doing it for service and I'm doing it to 796 00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:54,760 Speaker 1: fill a void, or I'm no longer doing it for 797 00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:56,600 Speaker 1: the reason I thought I was doing it. I'm doing 798 00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:59,319 Speaker 1: it because little justin wants to be seen is enough, 799 00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:02,480 Speaker 1: and that it's the thing that I am actively working 800 00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:04,920 Speaker 1: on right now. And what that might look like in 801 00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:07,239 Speaker 1: my life is that I end up saying no to 802 00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:09,160 Speaker 1: things I would normally say yes to, or I end 803 00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:12,799 Speaker 1: up pushing things away Like you pushed some people in 804 00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:14,960 Speaker 1: your life and made them more acquaintances. I might end 805 00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:17,080 Speaker 1: up having to do that for things that other people 806 00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:19,359 Speaker 1: might be like, why the hell would you ever do that? 807 00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:25,840 Speaker 1: It's an unpopular thing. Why Because at the end of 808 00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:27,359 Speaker 1: the day, at the end of my life, I get 809 00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:29,600 Speaker 1: so much time on this planet right time is our 810 00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:32,880 Speaker 1: most valuable resource, and the way that I spend it matters, 811 00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:35,520 Speaker 1: and what I water grows, and I have a gorgeous 812 00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:40,840 Speaker 1: wife and two beautiful children and dreams beyond this or 813 00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:44,120 Speaker 1: social media and money and all of that, and I 814 00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:46,040 Speaker 1: have to at some points start to honor that. And 815 00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:49,880 Speaker 1: that is it's an almost antithetical, if that's even the 816 00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:53,080 Speaker 1: right word, perspective of what I should have in this industry, 817 00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:56,640 Speaker 1: which is hustle, hustle, hustle, you've got it like somebody's 818 00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:59,319 Speaker 1: gunning for your job. That that fight or flight fear 819 00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:01,600 Speaker 1: based mentality that we have in this business, which is 820 00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:03,480 Speaker 1: like as soon as you get something, you got to 821 00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:06,399 Speaker 1: hold onto it, or you can't even enjoy the damn 822 00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:08,040 Speaker 1: thing you get because you're thinking about the next thing 823 00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:11,280 Speaker 1: that you have to get after that thing to stay relevant. 824 00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:13,000 Speaker 1: And that's the thing that I want to shed right 825 00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:17,640 Speaker 1: now in my life. Yes, uh so much. I mean, 826 00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:20,640 Speaker 1: the my girlfriends and I talked about this a lot, 827 00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:23,239 Speaker 1: you know, the girls who I did my first show with, 828 00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:28,680 Speaker 1: looking back, especially now as women who are producers and directors, 829 00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:32,120 Speaker 1: and I know you know this being one of the 830 00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:35,400 Speaker 1: most you know, successful and smart producer directors. I know 831 00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:39,640 Speaker 1: we were told every year, and you think we would 832 00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:41,759 Speaker 1: have caught on, but we were told every year for 833 00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:44,680 Speaker 1: nine years, shows on the bubble, probably gonna get canceled 834 00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:48,480 Speaker 1: this year, so that we wouldn't ask for anything, so 835 00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:53,240 Speaker 1: that we wouldn't try to renegotiate or get any any 836 00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:56,440 Speaker 1: better protections for ourselves. We always thought our job was 837 00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:59,000 Speaker 1: under threat. It was fight or flight for nine years, 838 00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:03,600 Speaker 1: and you just realize how tiring it is and how 839 00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:07,120 Speaker 1: rooted in a scarcity mentality. Choices like that are on 840 00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:09,680 Speaker 1: on the part of the people you work for that 841 00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:12,320 Speaker 1: they don't want you to have a better quality of life, 842 00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:16,600 Speaker 1: so they try to keep you scared and it's so 843 00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:21,360 Speaker 1: common in our business. And and I'm I'm really curious, 844 00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:24,560 Speaker 1: you know, when you talk about the documentary series you 845 00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:26,440 Speaker 1: were working on, when I think about the kinds of 846 00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:33,479 Speaker 1: movies that you've made, um, you really choose to tell 847 00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:39,000 Speaker 1: stories of merit and about the human experience. And I'm 848 00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:43,239 Speaker 1: curious how you how do you run your sets differently 849 00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:47,600 Speaker 1: as the boss than some of the sets you might 850 00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:51,480 Speaker 1: have found yourself on as an employee. Yeah, that's a 851 00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:54,280 Speaker 1: great question. First of all, I'm so sorry that happened 852 00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:56,319 Speaker 1: to you, and I totally get it, and I've been there, 853 00:50:56,560 --> 00:51:00,760 Speaker 1: and it's so crazy. It's so crazy crazy to us, 854 00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:04,040 Speaker 1: it's so crazy, even on Jane the Virgin. I mean, 855 00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:06,920 Speaker 1: our show is amazing, run by an incredible woman and people. 856 00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:10,279 Speaker 1: But I was never able to renegotiate. We knew we're 857 00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:12,200 Speaker 1: gonna be on for five years because it was like, yeah, 858 00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:14,640 Speaker 1: but you know they're not giving us any money because 859 00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:17,960 Speaker 1: they probably weren't because you know, um, And and then 860 00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:20,680 Speaker 1: you you you find yourself in this privileged position where 861 00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:25,280 Speaker 1: you are grateful, and yet you're not allowed to advocate 862 00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:27,880 Speaker 1: for yourself. Well you're not, and you're not allowed to 863 00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:31,279 Speaker 1: fully participate because if you because if you do, then 864 00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:33,799 Speaker 1: you're taking away from the whole, or that's at least 865 00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:38,240 Speaker 1: how you're made to feel, rather than anyone getting honest 866 00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:43,600 Speaker 1: about the fact that it's actually a massive pot at 867 00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:48,240 Speaker 1: the studio level, and that again transparency. We can trace 868 00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:51,680 Speaker 1: the numbers, you know how much of that pot is yours, 869 00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:52,920 Speaker 1: and they just don't want to give it to you 870 00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:55,600 Speaker 1: because they want to like do advise at the super Bowl? 871 00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:58,400 Speaker 1: And you're like, but wait, wait, that's the thing about 872 00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:02,120 Speaker 1: so so answer your question in a second. But that's 873 00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:07,240 Speaker 1: the thing about our industry, specifically to the entertainment business. Um. 874 00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:10,279 Speaker 1: And it's honestly why I started my own studio because 875 00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:14,480 Speaker 1: I was so hurt and disenfranchised by my experience making 876 00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:18,359 Speaker 1: five ft apart, as an example, my first film, which 877 00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:21,800 Speaker 1: one of the best. To pause you there and tell people, 878 00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:24,919 Speaker 1: I don't know what you've been doing. If you haven't 879 00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:29,920 Speaker 1: seen this movie, but my god, watch it. And if 880 00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:32,480 Speaker 1: you've seen it, watch it again. I've seen it three times. 881 00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:36,640 Speaker 1: I've seen it. Yes, every time I get on a 882 00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:38,399 Speaker 1: plane and it's there, I watch it. Well, I watched 883 00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:43,840 Speaker 1: you first came out. I'm I'm sobbing on the plane. 884 00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:47,400 Speaker 1: I love them anyway, It's just it's one of my favorites. 885 00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:50,960 Speaker 1: So we'll move on. But listeners, thank you, catch up 886 00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:54,520 Speaker 1: or rewatch because good God, and clouds. Clouds is on Disney. 887 00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:57,400 Speaker 1: You can watch Clouds on Disney. But but back. But 888 00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:00,040 Speaker 1: my experience with five ft apart was, you know, it 889 00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:04,440 Speaker 1: made a hundred million dollars and I made it for 890 00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:08,440 Speaker 1: seven million dollars and I killed myself to make it. 891 00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:13,160 Speaker 1: I paid myself almost nothing. Then turned it into a 892 00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:14,799 Speaker 1: book before. I had the idea to turn it into 893 00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:16,640 Speaker 1: a book before the movie came out, because I was like, 894 00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:18,879 Speaker 1: you know, if we can get if we could get 895 00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:20,759 Speaker 1: the book out, because I knew the script was gonna 896 00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:23,000 Speaker 1: the script was so good, and there was an original 897 00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:27,520 Speaker 1: idea inspired by my friend Claire with CF who passed away. 898 00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:29,640 Speaker 1: I'm looking at my last day's poster with her face 899 00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:33,120 Speaker 1: on it right now. Um. And anyway, so all then 900 00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:36,920 Speaker 1: the book became a best seller, was number one forever. Um. 901 00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:42,920 Speaker 1: And I just saw this machine take me, this like 902 00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:49,440 Speaker 1: kid with a dream and exploit him for the benefit 903 00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:52,480 Speaker 1: of the machine. And and you know, I'm in a 904 00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:54,400 Speaker 1: situation now where you know, we have to do an 905 00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:56,320 Speaker 1: audit and we're going after them to be like where's 906 00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:59,080 Speaker 1: the money, where's the hundred million dollars? Where to go? 907 00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:02,600 Speaker 1: Like are depended on like it wasn't on, wasn't on 908 00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:07,000 Speaker 1: the set, And what I saw in that experience, it 909 00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:09,560 Speaker 1: was like it sucks the joy out of it, and 910 00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:11,319 Speaker 1: talked about the service and the joy and I and 911 00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:13,000 Speaker 1: I said to myself, like I don't think I want 912 00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:16,160 Speaker 1: to do this anymore. Like it was such a hard 913 00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:19,960 Speaker 1: experience because you put your love, your soul, you put 914 00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:23,239 Speaker 1: love into something which is gonna when I'm gonna how 915 00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:25,640 Speaker 1: I'm gonna answer your question, And then you see it 916 00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:30,240 Speaker 1: only be about money to the people who control um everything, 917 00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:34,520 Speaker 1: which again it's like this patriarchal system where the few 918 00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:38,759 Speaker 1: at the top all of the benefit and um and 919 00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:41,799 Speaker 1: who even knows who those people are really? You know 920 00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:44,120 Speaker 1: they're not It's not even the presidents of the studios 921 00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:47,560 Speaker 1: who are on salary. It's above them. Um. So I 922 00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:50,840 Speaker 1: started my own studio for that reason because I wanted 923 00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:54,000 Speaker 1: to put power in back in the hands of the creators, 924 00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:55,239 Speaker 1: which I think you and I have had a couple 925 00:54:55,239 --> 00:55:01,000 Speaker 1: of chats about, because creating like you create out of love. 926 00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:04,879 Speaker 1: You know. The problem with our and taking this also 927 00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:07,640 Speaker 1: back the problem with our business, this low and common denominator, 928 00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:11,520 Speaker 1: is that our industry creates out of fear and the 929 00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:14,280 Speaker 1: high faith that du Baja says that love never dwelleth 930 00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:19,399 Speaker 1: in a heart possessed by fear. And everything we're doing 931 00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:22,680 Speaker 1: in this town is about relevancy and keeping up with 932 00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:26,080 Speaker 1: what's hot and and just you know, the fear of 933 00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:29,799 Speaker 1: doing something different keeps us in the same box that 934 00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:31,920 Speaker 1: we keep. You know, It's like why we have superhero movies, 935 00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:33,440 Speaker 1: that's all there is now. It's like the only movie 936 00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:37,160 Speaker 1: is getting fun. Um. So all, let's say, that's why 937 00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:39,600 Speaker 1: I started wait for our studios, That's why we're making 938 00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:42,880 Speaker 1: our own movies and TV shows. That's why I raised 939 00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:46,560 Speaker 1: the money is so that we could actually give people 940 00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:50,359 Speaker 1: a chance to tell their stories in a beautiful way 941 00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:52,640 Speaker 1: and not like you know, and not take all of 942 00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:55,480 Speaker 1: them the money and not share it. So back to 943 00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:59,279 Speaker 1: how my sets are different. I believe that as a 944 00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:05,719 Speaker 1: male director, creator, I have a responsibility to not always 945 00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:10,239 Speaker 1: know what's right. And this is antithetical to how as 946 00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:13,000 Speaker 1: men were raised, because we are raised to not ask 947 00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:15,400 Speaker 1: questions or other people's opinions, and to just pretend like 948 00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:19,200 Speaker 1: we know everything, because who wants to follow a leader 949 00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:22,839 Speaker 1: into battle who doesn't know how to win or you know, 950 00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:26,440 Speaker 1: And what we fail to see is that we'll know 951 00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:29,160 Speaker 1: what you actually want to The person you want to 952 00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:31,120 Speaker 1: go into battle with is the person who almost killed 953 00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:36,360 Speaker 1: his entire platoon the last tour, or the captain who 954 00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:39,680 Speaker 1: almost died because he wrecked his ship once because he 955 00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:43,000 Speaker 1: almost hit I don't know an Iceberg, Titanic. Whatever you want, 956 00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:47,520 Speaker 1: you want somebody with that experience. And what I've learned 957 00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:49,600 Speaker 1: is that I didn't. I've never I haven't seen very 958 00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:54,640 Speaker 1: many of those collaborative filmmakers on sets growing up. In fact, 959 00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:56,720 Speaker 1: there was never space for me to offer an opinion. 960 00:56:57,000 --> 00:56:58,720 Speaker 1: You know, you get to be the director, you're the boss, 961 00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:00,759 Speaker 1: you know, the producer, you you know, you you're the 962 00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:04,680 Speaker 1: ones doing the hiring. In general, again, there's the scarcity mentality, 963 00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:06,560 Speaker 1: which is what you experience, which is like, oh we 964 00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:09,640 Speaker 1: might get canceled, so be careful. You put the fear 965 00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:12,719 Speaker 1: into everybody, and and that's how we that's how we 966 00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:16,280 Speaker 1: lead in our industry. And I just truly believe that 967 00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:21,200 Speaker 1: that's not that's a recipe for unhappiness and regret and 968 00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:24,400 Speaker 1: remorse and disunity, And that's not at all how I 969 00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:26,960 Speaker 1: would ever want to behave in my family, So why 970 00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:29,320 Speaker 1: would ever want to behave on a set? So I 971 00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:33,680 Speaker 1: always take the approach of I might not know the answer, 972 00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:37,160 Speaker 1: what do you think? This is my vision for it, 973 00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:40,520 Speaker 1: But I'm not attached to anything. How can and how 974 00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:43,160 Speaker 1: can we collectively make art? Because again, like if you 975 00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:47,680 Speaker 1: really think about art and inspiration, it doesn't come from us, 976 00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:52,280 Speaker 1: It's all through us. I think it's like a radio 977 00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:55,520 Speaker 1: frequency that we turned that we turned to and you 978 00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:57,760 Speaker 1: might get the same idea that I might get depending 979 00:57:57,760 --> 00:57:59,840 Speaker 1: on how open, and we might get him at different times. 980 00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:03,240 Speaker 1: And what I've learned is that there are times when 981 00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:06,400 Speaker 1: I'm only getting a part of the signal, and so 982 00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:08,360 Speaker 1: long as I'm open, the other part will come through 983 00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:11,360 Speaker 1: somebody else. And what I found is that empowers people, 984 00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:14,800 Speaker 1: that makes them feel seen. You know, I really try 985 00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:17,600 Speaker 1: to lead with love and not ever to get upset. 986 00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:20,480 Speaker 1: I rarely get upset on a set. Not to say 987 00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:22,960 Speaker 1: that I haven't gotten upset or that I haven't been disappointed. 988 00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:26,560 Speaker 1: Um and I and I try to approach. I try 989 00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:28,640 Speaker 1: to approach all of the crazy things that happen on 990 00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:33,240 Speaker 1: a set with in the spirit of consultation, which is 991 00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:36,360 Speaker 1: a which again got to beat home on faith and things. 992 00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:38,240 Speaker 1: But that's really one of the driving forces for me 993 00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:41,880 Speaker 1: is this high principle and that you put something into 994 00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:45,120 Speaker 1: the middle and you just hatch from the outcome and 995 00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:47,600 Speaker 1: you allow other people to weigh in, understanding that we 996 00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:50,280 Speaker 1: all have roles and responsibilities on the director or producer 997 00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:53,080 Speaker 1: or whatever that is. But it doesn't mean my opinion 998 00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:55,360 Speaker 1: is more important than yours, because you might be able 999 00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:59,040 Speaker 1: to see something that I can't see. And what I 1000 00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:03,920 Speaker 1: think is such an important distinction is art is not war. No, 1001 00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:08,640 Speaker 1: we're not supposed to follow someone into battle who's barking 1002 00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:12,800 Speaker 1: orders at us. Art is about connection. The thing we 1003 00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:17,800 Speaker 1: love when we witness it on screen is the sparkliness 1004 00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:22,120 Speaker 1: of genuine human chemistry that doesn't come from being barked at. 1005 00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:26,720 Speaker 1: That comes from being collaborative. And so my favorite kind 1006 00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:30,000 Speaker 1: of director, my favorite kind of kernel, if we keep 1007 00:59:30,040 --> 00:59:33,880 Speaker 1: the metaphor going, is someone who asks everyone for their 1008 00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:39,000 Speaker 1: opinions and there experience so that we might find an 1009 00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:42,480 Speaker 1: even more sparkly outcome than what's on the page. But 1010 00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:45,360 Speaker 1: men aren't taught to do that. I know, because men 1011 00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:51,240 Speaker 1: are taught. We are taught, especially as men, that by 1012 00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:56,640 Speaker 1: asking someone else their opinions, we're giving them power over us, 1013 00:59:57,120 --> 00:59:59,880 Speaker 1: and suddenly we're not like and we're seen as we, 1014 01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:03,240 Speaker 1: which is truly the opposite. I think it takes true 1015 01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:06,120 Speaker 1: strength to be willing to ask somebody else what they 1016 01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:07,880 Speaker 1: think so that they can so that you can together 1017 01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:11,120 Speaker 1: make this thing better, because it's a collaborative. It's it's 1018 01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:15,640 Speaker 1: it's all collaborative. Yeah. And there's also nothing and I 1019 01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:19,280 Speaker 1: don't mean this in the in the traditional like um 1020 01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:23,880 Speaker 1: potential for romance way that we often categorize the notion 1021 01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:27,800 Speaker 1: of attraction. We're all attracted to things. We're attracted to 1022 01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:31,120 Speaker 1: art and sunlight and you know what I mean. So 1023 01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:33,680 Speaker 1: so you have to be attracted to a script or 1024 01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:36,120 Speaker 1: a character to want to play it or do the project. 1025 01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:40,400 Speaker 1: I think there is nothing more attractive in a leader 1026 01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:43,880 Speaker 1: than someone who says, what do you think I'm like? Well, 1027 01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:48,040 Speaker 1: now I'm here, I'm on your team forever, you know um. 1028 01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:50,960 Speaker 1: And then even when you go into you know, traditional 1029 01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:56,320 Speaker 1: relationship dynamics, like I would bet you money that when 1030 01:00:56,440 --> 01:00:59,840 Speaker 1: you ask your wife, honey, what do you think, She's like, God, 1031 01:00:59,840 --> 01:01:02,480 Speaker 1: you're so hot. Like I feel that way about my 1032 01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:06,000 Speaker 1: partner when when he turns to me and says, you're 1033 01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:07,840 Speaker 1: the expert on this, what do you think? I'm just 1034 01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:10,720 Speaker 1: like you? What did you say? I'm not paying attention. 1035 01:01:10,760 --> 01:01:14,200 Speaker 1: I'm just looking at your face now, Like, there's nothing 1036 01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:19,640 Speaker 1: wrong with acknowledging that there's actually a deeply whether in 1037 01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:22,720 Speaker 1: a you know, a platonic sense or in your romantic partnership, 1038 01:01:23,160 --> 01:01:27,080 Speaker 1: there is a deeply attractive quality to giving a ship 1039 01:01:27,160 --> 01:01:31,760 Speaker 1: about other people's opinions. And I will say, you know, 1040 01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:35,040 Speaker 1: it's a place that I mentioned my coworkers in my 1041 01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:38,680 Speaker 1: first show. You know, there's no secret that, especially as women, 1042 01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:43,040 Speaker 1: we really struggled on one tree hill. But we've talked about, 1043 01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:45,040 Speaker 1: you know, the famous adage it was the best of 1044 01:01:45,080 --> 01:01:48,919 Speaker 1: times and the worst of times. There were wonderful experiences there. 1045 01:01:49,520 --> 01:01:54,160 Speaker 1: And one of the best experiences I had with a boss, 1046 01:01:54,200 --> 01:01:59,200 Speaker 1: with one of my producing directors, was very early on 1047 01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:01,840 Speaker 1: when I knew I wanted to direct, and I started 1048 01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:04,400 Speaker 1: shadowing and going to production meetings and doing all these things. 1049 01:02:06,160 --> 01:02:09,600 Speaker 1: He said to me the most important piece of advice 1050 01:02:09,640 --> 01:02:11,080 Speaker 1: that I can give to you, and the way I 1051 01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:13,000 Speaker 1: run my set because I asked him, I said, why 1052 01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:17,160 Speaker 1: are your sets really fun? Some people's are not? And 1053 01:02:17,160 --> 01:02:19,360 Speaker 1: he said, the most important advice I can give to you, 1054 01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:23,000 Speaker 1: especially when you're somebody like me. You know, he was 1055 01:02:23,040 --> 01:02:25,800 Speaker 1: a man, you know, fifty years old, in a position 1056 01:02:25,840 --> 01:02:30,280 Speaker 1: of serious power. He said, I tell everyone on my crew, 1057 01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:34,440 Speaker 1: the best idea always wins, he said, And I don't 1058 01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:38,360 Speaker 1: care if it's my idea or your idea, or the 1059 01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:42,040 Speaker 1: Dolly grips idea or an idea that comes from one 1060 01:02:42,040 --> 01:02:44,640 Speaker 1: of the electricians when he's getting awful ladder and says, 1061 01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:47,040 Speaker 1: you know what might be great, I don't care whose 1062 01:02:47,080 --> 01:02:52,240 Speaker 1: idea is the best idea always went And and when 1063 01:02:52,280 --> 01:02:56,040 Speaker 1: everyone feels permission to be fully represented in a space, 1064 01:02:56,080 --> 01:03:01,320 Speaker 1: you always get better ideas always because it's not about 1065 01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:05,720 Speaker 1: the individual, it's about the whole. But unfortunately, so many 1066 01:03:05,760 --> 01:03:10,720 Speaker 1: folks in our industry are focused on the individual and 1067 01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:13,480 Speaker 1: their stamp, when in reality, like we're all like, it 1068 01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:18,160 Speaker 1: takes hundreds of people to make and we don't think 1069 01:03:18,160 --> 01:03:21,919 Speaker 1: about that. So safety is safety is the other piece 1070 01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:25,000 Speaker 1: and um and the answer to your question is I 1071 01:03:25,040 --> 01:03:28,200 Speaker 1: really want to create a safe set for people, and 1072 01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:31,240 Speaker 1: the other way I do that is by is by 1073 01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:35,640 Speaker 1: being vulnerable myself. Yeah. Um, And I think that it's 1074 01:03:35,680 --> 01:03:40,120 Speaker 1: a really really it's it's really sweet to see the response, 1075 01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:43,040 Speaker 1: especially with actors and folks when when you feel like 1076 01:03:43,040 --> 01:03:45,000 Speaker 1: you're in the trenches with somebody like you felt with 1077 01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:48,760 Speaker 1: your old boss, when you feel valued and seen and 1078 01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:51,400 Speaker 1: you don't feel like you're just there as an object 1079 01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:53,680 Speaker 1: or can it can be moved around from you know, 1080 01:03:54,040 --> 01:03:55,840 Speaker 1: or fired on a whim and all the things that 1081 01:03:55,880 --> 01:03:59,280 Speaker 1: we do to make actors feel afraid. Um, you're a 1082 01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:02,280 Speaker 1: part of the thing, and then when it's released, you 1083 01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:05,200 Speaker 1: have ownership of it and you're proud of it because 1084 01:04:05,240 --> 01:04:09,160 Speaker 1: you made it. Yeah. Do you think that wanting to 1085 01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:13,600 Speaker 1: be of service, especially when you haven't been in the 1086 01:04:13,760 --> 01:04:17,800 Speaker 1: position of you know, ultimate sort of controlling power um 1087 01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:21,320 Speaker 1: on a set like you are now when you're producing 1088 01:04:21,320 --> 01:04:25,280 Speaker 1: and directing, do you think some of that is what 1089 01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:29,840 Speaker 1: led you to create the philanthropic arm of Wayfarer because 1090 01:04:29,840 --> 01:04:34,400 Speaker 1: you do such incredible work for folks in the Los 1091 01:04:34,440 --> 01:04:39,800 Speaker 1: Angeles community, your work with unhoused people's and struggling Angelino's 1092 01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:43,120 Speaker 1: is one of my favorite things about you, and how 1093 01:04:43,160 --> 01:04:46,360 Speaker 1: I think we actually became digital friends before we were 1094 01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:49,720 Speaker 1: like I r L friends. So how how did you 1095 01:04:49,760 --> 01:04:54,840 Speaker 1: decide to focus efforts there? And how do you build 1096 01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:57,080 Speaker 1: something like this kid Row Carnival. I mean, it's a 1097 01:04:57,280 --> 01:05:01,000 Speaker 1: massive thing that you do annually. So so where does 1098 01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:05,760 Speaker 1: something like that even start? Again? It's not me, I 1099 01:05:05,840 --> 01:05:10,160 Speaker 1: really think. I don't know. One day, when my time 1100 01:05:10,680 --> 01:05:14,880 Speaker 1: is called and I'm no longer in this body, I'm 1101 01:05:14,920 --> 01:05:19,200 Speaker 1: I can't wait to see the way that all of 1102 01:05:19,640 --> 01:05:22,600 Speaker 1: those who have passed on are influencing this life and 1103 01:05:22,640 --> 01:05:24,800 Speaker 1: all the and all the whispers and all of our 1104 01:05:24,800 --> 01:05:27,560 Speaker 1: ears that we ignore sometimes here. And that's kind of 1105 01:05:27,600 --> 01:05:31,440 Speaker 1: the radio frequency I mentioned earlier about art and inspiration. 1106 01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:33,880 Speaker 1: I just you know, I know all my friends who 1107 01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:36,640 Speaker 1: have passed are constantly whispering in my ear and telling 1108 01:05:36,640 --> 01:05:38,760 Speaker 1: me to go a direction in one direction or another. 1109 01:05:39,240 --> 01:05:42,040 Speaker 1: So so none of this was intentional. When you ask 1110 01:05:42,120 --> 01:05:45,080 Speaker 1: how to build it, I it's like field of dreams. 1111 01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:47,000 Speaker 1: It's like I don't know, It's like they will come 1112 01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:51,360 Speaker 1: and but it all has to start. What I can 1113 01:05:51,400 --> 01:05:53,440 Speaker 1: tell you about me is that it starts. It started 1114 01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:57,880 Speaker 1: from a pure place, and and that I think is 1115 01:05:57,920 --> 01:06:01,160 Speaker 1: the most important thing. Like best companies in the world 1116 01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:05,200 Speaker 1: all started because they wanted to genuinely help or solve 1117 01:06:05,240 --> 01:06:09,400 Speaker 1: a problem. Right now, are they still there, that's debatable, 1118 01:06:09,840 --> 01:06:11,840 Speaker 1: but the kernel of the idea when they were in 1119 01:06:11,880 --> 01:06:14,760 Speaker 1: the garage and trying to build the mac or whatever, 1120 01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:18,920 Speaker 1: it was like everybody starts because they have a dream. 1121 01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:20,480 Speaker 1: It's one of the things like back to l A, 1122 01:06:20,800 --> 01:06:22,800 Speaker 1: like we're here because we have a dream. The problem 1123 01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:24,400 Speaker 1: is we get lost along the way because the dream 1124 01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:26,760 Speaker 1: then becomes about ourselves and not about the collective whole. 1125 01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:31,240 Speaker 1: So for me, it's started with it started with service. 1126 01:06:31,280 --> 01:06:34,320 Speaker 1: It started with you know another quote, tell the rich 1127 01:06:34,360 --> 01:06:38,959 Speaker 1: of the midnight, sign of the poor, says Bha. And 1128 01:06:39,240 --> 01:06:41,440 Speaker 1: walking around the streets of l A and my early 1129 01:06:41,480 --> 01:06:48,080 Speaker 1: twenties and being so confused of like why I wanted 1130 01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:51,080 Speaker 1: to ignore somebody on the street, or watching other people 1131 01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:54,000 Speaker 1: ignore somebody on the street, and then feeling like my 1132 01:06:54,080 --> 01:06:56,120 Speaker 1: heart sink and then going over to that person and 1133 01:06:56,160 --> 01:06:58,880 Speaker 1: asking if I can buy them food and having amazing 1134 01:06:58,920 --> 01:07:05,160 Speaker 1: conversations within a jewels um who are unhoused and recognizing like, wait, 1135 01:07:05,200 --> 01:07:09,000 Speaker 1: they're just like me, you know, so I Actually one 1136 01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:11,400 Speaker 1: of my first things I ever did was this documentary 1137 01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:14,640 Speaker 1: series called Stories from the Street. I started making it 1138 01:07:14,680 --> 01:07:16,920 Speaker 1: at the same time I made my Last Days. And 1139 01:07:16,960 --> 01:07:19,120 Speaker 1: I would travel around l A with two of my buddies, 1140 01:07:19,920 --> 01:07:22,920 Speaker 1: and I would pull over and I'd have a conversation 1141 01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:24,880 Speaker 1: with an unhoused person and I'd say, can I tell 1142 01:07:24,920 --> 01:07:27,280 Speaker 1: your story? And we'd sit there for two hours and 1143 01:07:27,320 --> 01:07:29,960 Speaker 1: we talked and buy them food and I'd let them 1144 01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:32,600 Speaker 1: share their story and I follow them around for the day. 1145 01:07:32,920 --> 01:07:34,280 Speaker 1: And I turned that into like a little five or 1146 01:07:34,320 --> 01:07:38,440 Speaker 1: six minute clip because I thought that if I could 1147 01:07:38,560 --> 01:07:42,960 Speaker 1: show people that the folks that they passed by and 1148 01:07:43,000 --> 01:07:45,760 Speaker 1: ignore every single day, the folks that they're complaining about. 1149 01:07:45,800 --> 01:07:48,360 Speaker 1: And by the way, l A, I'm so mad at 1150 01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:51,160 Speaker 1: l A. L A just passed I think last night. 1151 01:07:51,960 --> 01:08:00,480 Speaker 1: And a bill that criminalizes homelessness. We literally I don't, 1152 01:08:00,520 --> 01:08:02,080 Speaker 1: I don't. I can't even get into it because it's 1153 01:08:02,080 --> 01:08:05,880 Speaker 1: so confusing to me. But like we're criminal Like now 1154 01:08:05,920 --> 01:08:09,960 Speaker 1: it's illegal to be in an encampment as of today, 1155 01:08:10,040 --> 01:08:12,640 Speaker 1: which but yet, but yet, if you look at all 1156 01:08:12,640 --> 01:08:17,240 Speaker 1: the housing in Los Angeles, like I think only thirty 1157 01:08:17,320 --> 01:08:20,080 Speaker 1: nine percent of all on housed. People could even be 1158 01:08:20,160 --> 01:08:23,400 Speaker 1: housed because we have too many, So that's neither here 1159 01:08:23,439 --> 01:08:26,439 Speaker 1: nor there. So the idea that these people that were 1160 01:08:26,479 --> 01:08:32,360 Speaker 1: punishing for for being needy for honestly just needing to 1161 01:08:32,400 --> 01:08:35,519 Speaker 1: be seen and loved and held. Our human beings just 1162 01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:38,880 Speaker 1: like you and me that have just had different experiences 1163 01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:42,800 Speaker 1: and we're all products of our experiences and socialization. So 1164 01:08:42,920 --> 01:08:46,559 Speaker 1: it started with that desire to shine a light. And 1165 01:08:46,600 --> 01:08:50,240 Speaker 1: then um, on my birthday, I started going down to 1166 01:08:50,280 --> 01:08:54,240 Speaker 1: skid Row with friends and just like, let's go talk 1167 01:08:54,240 --> 01:08:57,040 Speaker 1: to people and let's give some food, and you know, 1168 01:08:57,479 --> 01:09:00,280 Speaker 1: and little by little, because you know how Hollywood works. 1169 01:09:01,280 --> 01:09:04,160 Speaker 1: As I became quote unquote like kind of cool because 1170 01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:07,800 Speaker 1: of my profession, more people, more people started coming. Before 1171 01:09:07,800 --> 01:09:09,720 Speaker 1: it was like four or five of us, and then 1172 01:09:09,720 --> 01:09:11,320 Speaker 1: it was ten of us, and it was twenty of us, 1173 01:09:11,880 --> 01:09:13,400 Speaker 1: and then it was fifty of us, and then it 1174 01:09:13,400 --> 01:09:16,519 Speaker 1: became like a party. And I rented. I remember renting 1175 01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:18,760 Speaker 1: vans every year, like these two sprinter vans and we 1176 01:09:18,880 --> 01:09:20,680 Speaker 1: pile everybody in and then we'd go down there. And 1177 01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:23,360 Speaker 1: the mission wasn't to end homelessness, it was to have 1178 01:09:23,479 --> 01:09:27,280 Speaker 1: conversations with them. So that's how it started. It started 1179 01:09:27,280 --> 01:09:31,120 Speaker 1: with a genuine desire to connect and to bring people 1180 01:09:31,160 --> 01:09:36,240 Speaker 1: down who had forgotten, if you will, and to help 1181 01:09:36,320 --> 01:09:40,160 Speaker 1: them see like, these are our neighbors and we got 1182 01:09:40,160 --> 01:09:41,960 Speaker 1: to be there for them. We can't fix all of 1183 01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:45,000 Speaker 1: this stuff unless we fix this and that eventually, when 1184 01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:47,480 Speaker 1: I got Jane the Virgin, I had the crazy idea, 1185 01:09:47,840 --> 01:09:50,479 Speaker 1: you know, because it's like you get a little bit 1186 01:09:50,479 --> 01:09:51,960 Speaker 1: of fame or you get followers, it's like, what the 1187 01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:53,920 Speaker 1: hell am I going to do with this? And I 1188 01:09:53,960 --> 01:09:55,839 Speaker 1: had this idea. I'm like, what if we threw a carnival? 1189 01:09:56,360 --> 01:09:58,840 Speaker 1: And then I tried it again. I didn't think it 1190 01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:01,320 Speaker 1: through all the way. Uh. It wasn't until I was 1191 01:10:01,400 --> 01:10:05,040 Speaker 1: there and three people showed up volunteer showed up that 1192 01:10:05,080 --> 01:10:07,880 Speaker 1: I went, oh, ship, now what have I done. I 1193 01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:10,240 Speaker 1: didn't even think about security, Like I was just so 1194 01:10:10,360 --> 01:10:13,559 Speaker 1: sweet and innocent going into the middle of skid row 1195 01:10:14,439 --> 01:10:18,320 Speaker 1: and having no plan. But what we learned is all 1196 01:10:18,320 --> 01:10:22,000 Speaker 1: the volunteers had ideas, yeah, all of them. And I 1197 01:10:22,040 --> 01:10:24,760 Speaker 1: had an idea to create a carnival, but everybody else 1198 01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:27,200 Speaker 1: had ideas about what that carnival could look like. And 1199 01:10:27,240 --> 01:10:31,120 Speaker 1: so we created this thing together one one um young 1200 01:10:31,160 --> 01:10:34,360 Speaker 1: woman said hey, what if we all lined up and 1201 01:10:35,479 --> 01:10:38,880 Speaker 1: made a friend and took them around the carnival, which 1202 01:10:38,960 --> 01:10:41,360 Speaker 1: was at the time, it was just food and clothing. 1203 01:10:41,400 --> 01:10:43,559 Speaker 1: I had, I had our Jane, the Virgin guys come 1204 01:10:43,600 --> 01:10:46,880 Speaker 1: in and cater it and um and it was just 1205 01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:50,120 Speaker 1: food and clothing and books and feminine products. And then 1206 01:10:50,200 --> 01:10:51,439 Speaker 1: that's what we did, and then we turned it into 1207 01:10:51,479 --> 01:10:55,000 Speaker 1: a dance party and every volunteer partnered with somebody who 1208 01:10:55,040 --> 01:10:57,560 Speaker 1: was in line waiting. We had like maybe four d 1209 01:10:57,760 --> 01:11:00,920 Speaker 1: five hundred people that day, and that was the beginning 1210 01:11:00,920 --> 01:11:03,080 Speaker 1: of the carnival, and then year after year we refined it, 1211 01:11:03,120 --> 01:11:04,840 Speaker 1: and I reached out for more people, and we made 1212 01:11:04,880 --> 01:11:06,800 Speaker 1: it bigger, and then before we knew it, it was 1213 01:11:07,360 --> 01:11:12,959 Speaker 1: two thousand volunteers showing up for one day and creating 1214 01:11:12,960 --> 01:11:16,760 Speaker 1: this and you know, three city block thing and conjunction 1215 01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:19,040 Speaker 1: with the city, which by the way, we had to 1216 01:11:19,120 --> 01:11:22,000 Speaker 1: beg the city to even do anything, which is a 1217 01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:24,320 Speaker 1: whole another issue. And it just took on a life 1218 01:11:24,320 --> 01:11:27,000 Speaker 1: of its own because what we saw and realized was 1219 01:11:27,040 --> 01:11:31,639 Speaker 1: that people care. People are good. We have so many 1220 01:11:31,680 --> 01:11:34,600 Speaker 1: good human beings in this world, but we're so distracted 1221 01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:37,080 Speaker 1: that we that we don't even know what to care 1222 01:11:37,080 --> 01:11:41,240 Speaker 1: about anymore. And so many people also have fatigue because 1223 01:11:41,520 --> 01:11:43,400 Speaker 1: there's so many problems that exist in the world. We 1224 01:11:43,439 --> 01:11:45,559 Speaker 1: don't know what to give our energy to. And so 1225 01:11:45,600 --> 01:11:47,679 Speaker 1: what I try to remind people is like, great, yes, 1226 01:11:47,720 --> 01:11:50,920 Speaker 1: focus on what's happening in Africa, but also don't neglect 1227 01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:54,519 Speaker 1: what's happening in your own backyard. And this is like, 1228 01:11:54,600 --> 01:11:57,280 Speaker 1: these are human beings also, we can't forget about them. 1229 01:11:57,479 --> 01:12:02,000 Speaker 1: And so in essence, now it's an organization. We're rebranding, 1230 01:12:02,280 --> 01:12:04,639 Speaker 1: we're changing our name at the moment, which is really exciting, 1231 01:12:05,200 --> 01:12:08,000 Speaker 1: and we're really just trying to change the way our 1232 01:12:08,000 --> 01:12:12,880 Speaker 1: community responds to the unhoused population. And that has also 1233 01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:15,960 Speaker 1: evolved because in that process, one thing we didn't do 1234 01:12:16,040 --> 01:12:20,439 Speaker 1: early on was asked the community what they needed. We 1235 01:12:20,600 --> 01:12:23,320 Speaker 1: just came in as the great White Savior and we're like, oh, 1236 01:12:23,360 --> 01:12:25,840 Speaker 1: we should do this, and didn't ask the community what 1237 01:12:25,920 --> 01:12:28,000 Speaker 1: they needed. Then when we started asking the community what 1238 01:12:28,040 --> 01:12:31,880 Speaker 1: they needed, that changed again. What were some of the 1239 01:12:31,880 --> 01:12:35,760 Speaker 1: things that the community I told you they needed that 1240 01:12:35,840 --> 01:12:43,120 Speaker 1: you hadn't considered, UM, legal help, resume building, I D cards, 1241 01:12:43,840 --> 01:12:47,639 Speaker 1: basic medical things, UM, what what we found was that 1242 01:12:48,600 --> 01:12:52,559 Speaker 1: a lot of folks, especially on and around skid Row, 1243 01:12:53,439 --> 01:12:57,479 Speaker 1: they have access to services if they choose to go 1244 01:12:57,560 --> 01:12:59,920 Speaker 1: to a mission, if they do X and X and 1245 01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:01,439 Speaker 1: X and x, and then there's a whole thing with 1246 01:13:01,479 --> 01:13:04,519 Speaker 1: missions also in l A, because of course they're funded 1247 01:13:04,560 --> 01:13:08,680 Speaker 1: by the city, and it becomes this perpetual issue when 1248 01:13:08,680 --> 01:13:11,080 Speaker 1: in reality, I believe if you're a nonprofit or a 1249 01:13:11,080 --> 01:13:14,320 Speaker 1: mission and you're working with the homeless, you should aim 1250 01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:17,640 Speaker 1: and strive and desire to be out of business. M hm. 1251 01:13:18,479 --> 01:13:19,880 Speaker 1: So when you have these things that are you know, 1252 01:13:19,920 --> 01:13:22,200 Speaker 1: you've been existing for a hundred years, while you have 1253 01:13:22,280 --> 01:13:24,160 Speaker 1: good intentions, it's like, no, you should be out of 1254 01:13:24,200 --> 01:13:26,599 Speaker 1: business by now. We should have solved the problem so 1255 01:13:26,640 --> 01:13:30,000 Speaker 1: we can do we can do better. Um So now 1256 01:13:30,040 --> 01:13:33,240 Speaker 1: it's like it's it's the purpose of it is. Imagine 1257 01:13:34,040 --> 01:13:40,160 Speaker 1: you're on the streets for this day. Everything you need 1258 01:13:41,160 --> 01:13:43,679 Speaker 1: is within these three city blocks. So we bring all 1259 01:13:43,720 --> 01:13:46,080 Speaker 1: of the services that one could want, whether it's applying 1260 01:13:46,120 --> 01:13:48,680 Speaker 1: for housing, which I'm a housing first person, so I 1261 01:13:48,720 --> 01:13:50,840 Speaker 1: believe that we can't solve the problem until you get 1262 01:13:50,840 --> 01:13:52,120 Speaker 1: the people off the street. How are you gonna show 1263 01:13:52,200 --> 01:13:53,640 Speaker 1: up for a job interview. If you don't have a 1264 01:13:53,720 --> 01:13:58,479 Speaker 1: home or you know so, so it's everything that you 1265 01:13:58,479 --> 01:14:02,280 Speaker 1: could ever need in one day. Um, the desire is 1266 01:14:02,320 --> 01:14:04,479 Speaker 1: to have. But more than anything, it's a one on 1267 01:14:04,479 --> 01:14:07,960 Speaker 1: one connection so that you feel seen, heard and loved, 1268 01:14:08,080 --> 01:14:11,559 Speaker 1: because that's one of the things we realized that folks 1269 01:14:11,600 --> 01:14:13,840 Speaker 1: don't have down there is they don't have it. They 1270 01:14:13,840 --> 01:14:17,600 Speaker 1: don't feel seen by their community anymore. They feel worthless 1271 01:14:17,640 --> 01:14:20,559 Speaker 1: and dirty and bad, and we want to remind them 1272 01:14:20,560 --> 01:14:22,679 Speaker 1: that they're good. So for those four to six hours, 1273 01:14:22,720 --> 01:14:26,439 Speaker 1: there are just no richer or poor. We're all just one. 1274 01:14:26,600 --> 01:14:29,240 Speaker 1: We're dancing, we're partying, we're hanging out, we're hugging. Hopefully 1275 01:14:29,280 --> 01:14:31,880 Speaker 1: that will happen again after COVID and UH and we're 1276 01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:33,400 Speaker 1: gonna start doing a lot of more, a lot of 1277 01:14:33,400 --> 01:14:35,160 Speaker 1: many carnivals and things like that. But it started with 1278 01:14:35,200 --> 01:14:39,160 Speaker 1: a dream and a purpose and a pure intention. That's 1279 01:14:39,160 --> 01:14:42,559 Speaker 1: how it all starts. M H. What are some ways 1280 01:14:42,600 --> 01:14:47,320 Speaker 1: that people who are listening can get involved in helping 1281 01:14:48,200 --> 01:14:50,960 Speaker 1: unhoused folks, whether it's here in l A or around 1282 01:14:51,000 --> 01:14:54,240 Speaker 1: the country. Again, I would go back to that idea 1283 01:14:54,280 --> 01:14:57,240 Speaker 1: that my wife had, which is like the most radical 1284 01:14:57,240 --> 01:15:00,640 Speaker 1: activism is self activism. And the first thing that I 1285 01:15:00,680 --> 01:15:06,439 Speaker 1: would do is ask yourself on a daily basis, if 1286 01:15:06,479 --> 01:15:09,760 Speaker 1: you see any people who are unhoused, and what your 1287 01:15:09,800 --> 01:15:14,080 Speaker 1: response is to those people? Do you think about them? 1288 01:15:14,200 --> 01:15:16,680 Speaker 1: Do you just walk by them and ignore them? Like 1289 01:15:16,760 --> 01:15:19,519 Speaker 1: do you have is there a response in your body 1290 01:15:20,800 --> 01:15:24,639 Speaker 1: or a fear response? And what is that? And then 1291 01:15:24,680 --> 01:15:27,599 Speaker 1: I would say to stop and have a conversation with 1292 01:15:27,640 --> 01:15:30,840 Speaker 1: somebody if it's if it's of course, if you feel 1293 01:15:30,880 --> 01:15:35,080 Speaker 1: safe doing it, and I really think about your perspective 1294 01:15:35,120 --> 01:15:36,720 Speaker 1: on it before anything else. A lot of us just 1295 01:15:36,720 --> 01:15:38,439 Speaker 1: want to jump into help and we have no idea 1296 01:15:38,479 --> 01:15:41,400 Speaker 1: why we're doing it, and then that never lasts. It's 1297 01:15:41,400 --> 01:15:44,519 Speaker 1: like in in nonprofit organizations like ours, you always see 1298 01:15:44,520 --> 01:15:46,479 Speaker 1: people come in and out. It's because they don't have 1299 01:15:46,479 --> 01:15:48,840 Speaker 1: a true grasp of what they actually care about. And 1300 01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:50,600 Speaker 1: so I really believe the first step you gotta the 1301 01:15:50,600 --> 01:15:52,280 Speaker 1: first thing you gotta do is ask yourself, like why 1302 01:15:52,280 --> 01:15:56,519 Speaker 1: do you care? Um? And if you do care, I'd 1303 01:15:56,680 --> 01:16:01,559 Speaker 1: say most cities around the country have, especially now post COVID, 1304 01:16:02,920 --> 01:16:06,080 Speaker 1: because rents and prices are so high, are seeing many 1305 01:16:06,160 --> 01:16:12,560 Speaker 1: more people out on the street. UM. So nonprofits, local organizations, 1306 01:16:12,600 --> 01:16:16,519 Speaker 1: food banks, you know, there's all kinds of places that 1307 01:16:16,560 --> 01:16:18,719 Speaker 1: you can reach out to. Just literally do a Google 1308 01:16:18,760 --> 01:16:22,839 Speaker 1: search and find out who's serving in your area. Um. 1309 01:16:22,840 --> 01:16:24,720 Speaker 1: But more than that, it's not even about homelessness. I 1310 01:16:24,720 --> 01:16:27,880 Speaker 1: would say, find find a cause that speaks to you 1311 01:16:28,960 --> 01:16:30,920 Speaker 1: that you believe in, even if it's not It doesn't 1312 01:16:30,960 --> 01:16:33,000 Speaker 1: have to be unhoused for for you. It could be 1313 01:16:33,040 --> 01:16:38,960 Speaker 1: something else, right, and find that cause and dive into it. Yeah, 1314 01:16:39,160 --> 01:16:41,599 Speaker 1: that's something I really try to encourage people to remember, 1315 01:16:41,680 --> 01:16:44,800 Speaker 1: is it's not possible for all of us to show 1316 01:16:44,880 --> 01:16:47,720 Speaker 1: up for everything. But if we can all show up 1317 01:16:48,360 --> 01:16:52,880 Speaker 1: and be all in on something, we can really really 1318 01:16:53,040 --> 01:16:56,719 Speaker 1: create change. And you helped me with that, actually, Sophia, 1319 01:16:56,760 --> 01:17:01,680 Speaker 1: because I've I've had a charity FATI good times, and 1320 01:17:02,400 --> 01:17:04,759 Speaker 1: hearing you say that has always been really helpful because 1321 01:17:05,280 --> 01:17:07,120 Speaker 1: oftentimes you feel like you want to do it all 1322 01:17:08,240 --> 01:17:12,600 Speaker 1: but you can't. Yeah, but there's how many billions of 1323 01:17:12,680 --> 01:17:17,240 Speaker 1: us in the world if we all did something? Yeah, right? Yea. 1324 01:17:17,640 --> 01:17:20,479 Speaker 1: When you think about that, that notion that we can 1325 01:17:20,520 --> 01:17:23,439 Speaker 1: all really show up for something, that that feels like 1326 01:17:23,960 --> 01:17:28,240 Speaker 1: a great gateway to potential for the future. And that's big, right, 1327 01:17:28,280 --> 01:17:30,479 Speaker 1: it's billions of us, it's all of us. It's working 1328 01:17:30,479 --> 01:17:33,960 Speaker 1: on issues. When when you bring it into the personal 1329 01:17:34,720 --> 01:17:37,719 Speaker 1: and you think about this moment you're in, having written 1330 01:17:37,720 --> 01:17:44,160 Speaker 1: the book, hosting the man Enough podcast and having you know, 1331 01:17:44,320 --> 01:17:48,880 Speaker 1: frank and intimate conversations like this one, what do you 1332 01:17:49,040 --> 01:17:53,120 Speaker 1: hope from this place you're in. What do you see 1333 01:17:53,240 --> 01:17:58,920 Speaker 1: or desire in how manhood and or masculinity will be 1334 01:17:58,960 --> 01:18:02,040 Speaker 1: perceived in the future. Sure, my hope is that the 1335 01:18:02,560 --> 01:18:06,960 Speaker 1: work that I'm doing now is like throwing a rock 1336 01:18:07,080 --> 01:18:11,160 Speaker 1: into a still lake, and it's not going to change 1337 01:18:11,240 --> 01:18:13,920 Speaker 1: the lake, but it will send a ripple, and that 1338 01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:16,160 Speaker 1: ripple can spread from one end to the other and 1339 01:18:17,200 --> 01:18:25,400 Speaker 1: inspire other then to them throw their rocks and and 1340 01:18:25,400 --> 01:18:29,960 Speaker 1: and eventually, I just really hope that masculinity can become 1341 01:18:30,080 --> 01:18:37,080 Speaker 1: something that isn't isn't performative, that is innate, and that 1342 01:18:36,800 --> 01:18:40,479 Speaker 1: is that that, like femininity, is seen and looked at 1343 01:18:40,600 --> 01:18:44,720 Speaker 1: as a piece of us, not the thing that defines us. 1344 01:18:45,200 --> 01:18:48,439 Speaker 1: Because the problem with it right now is that it's 1345 01:18:48,439 --> 01:18:52,200 Speaker 1: an all or nothing thing. It's you're either masculine or 1346 01:18:52,280 --> 01:18:56,719 Speaker 1: you're not. And the reason I chose to, you know, say, 1347 01:18:56,720 --> 01:18:59,600 Speaker 1: I want to undefine masculinity is because I want to 1348 01:18:59,640 --> 01:19:02,880 Speaker 1: see a future or anybody who identifies as a man 1349 01:19:03,840 --> 01:19:08,240 Speaker 1: feel safe and free to be able to be a man, 1350 01:19:10,120 --> 01:19:17,000 Speaker 1: and where we don't raise boys two not only reject 1351 01:19:17,040 --> 01:19:21,320 Speaker 1: the feminine, but to have a disgust for it, to 1352 01:19:21,479 --> 01:19:25,679 Speaker 1: hate it. And I want to I want to see 1353 01:19:27,120 --> 01:19:29,719 Speaker 1: I want to see men. I want to see grown 1354 01:19:29,800 --> 01:19:34,280 Speaker 1: men one day be willing to make a phone call 1355 01:19:35,880 --> 01:19:40,360 Speaker 1: when they're hurting to another man and say, hey, I 1356 01:19:40,400 --> 01:19:45,640 Speaker 1: need someone to talk to because because it makes me 1357 01:19:45,640 --> 01:19:50,559 Speaker 1: want to cry, because we're hurting. We're hurting, so many 1358 01:19:50,640 --> 01:19:52,760 Speaker 1: men are hurting, and yet we don't have anybody to 1359 01:19:52,760 --> 01:19:57,600 Speaker 1: talk to about it because talking to it, talking to 1360 01:19:57,640 --> 01:20:06,040 Speaker 1: somebody about it is an admission of weakness, and that 1361 01:20:06,200 --> 01:20:09,720 Speaker 1: weakness is almost worse for us than the pain. I 1362 01:20:09,760 --> 01:20:12,919 Speaker 1: want to see a world where it's not an insult 1363 01:20:13,280 --> 01:20:17,599 Speaker 1: for a boy to call another boy a girl, where 1364 01:20:17,640 --> 01:20:23,920 Speaker 1: that boy can say something like so what instead of 1365 01:20:24,080 --> 01:20:27,559 Speaker 1: instead of it defining his very existence, Where it's not 1366 01:20:27,600 --> 01:20:30,200 Speaker 1: an insult for a boy to call another boy gay anymore, 1367 01:20:30,280 --> 01:20:33,880 Speaker 1: because until we stop being affected by it, it's going 1368 01:20:33,920 --> 01:20:37,200 Speaker 1: to keep happening. And every time that happens, we don't 1369 01:20:37,200 --> 01:20:41,400 Speaker 1: realize that we're we're internalizing that language and we're taking 1370 01:20:41,400 --> 01:20:42,840 Speaker 1: that with us for the rest of our lives. And 1371 01:20:42,880 --> 01:20:45,479 Speaker 1: seeing girls and gay folks is weak or less then. 1372 01:20:46,240 --> 01:20:48,840 Speaker 1: So I want to see a world whereas men, we 1373 01:20:48,880 --> 01:20:53,080 Speaker 1: can embrace the feminine parts of ourselves and recognize that 1374 01:20:53,120 --> 01:20:57,440 Speaker 1: we can be men and have empathy, compassion, and sensitivity 1375 01:20:59,320 --> 01:21:02,280 Speaker 1: and in fact those things make us not just men 1376 01:21:02,360 --> 01:21:04,519 Speaker 1: but human, which is really, at the end of the day, 1377 01:21:04,520 --> 01:21:07,479 Speaker 1: where I want masculine to go. I want masculine to 1378 01:21:07,640 --> 01:21:11,160 Speaker 1: be something that is a part of us, yeah, and 1379 01:21:11,160 --> 01:21:15,360 Speaker 1: and and helps us become full humans, not something that 1380 01:21:15,439 --> 01:21:18,320 Speaker 1: actually takes away from our humanity, which is what I 1381 01:21:18,360 --> 01:21:23,559 Speaker 1: believe it's doing. Now. Yeah, I love that. I sign 1382 01:21:23,640 --> 01:21:28,600 Speaker 1: up for that world. Me too, Me too? What do 1383 01:21:28,680 --> 01:21:31,760 Speaker 1: you think? And this is this is my favorite thing 1384 01:21:31,800 --> 01:21:34,920 Speaker 1: to ask everyone who comes on the show, and always 1385 01:21:34,920 --> 01:21:37,120 Speaker 1: are closing questions. So you may be prepared for it, 1386 01:21:37,200 --> 01:21:38,640 Speaker 1: or it may catch you off guard. I don't know, 1387 01:21:38,760 --> 01:21:43,240 Speaker 1: but I'm not prepared for it. Um what in your 1388 01:21:43,280 --> 01:21:46,240 Speaker 1: life in this moment feels like your work in progress? 1389 01:21:46,560 --> 01:21:54,280 Speaker 1: What doesn't same? I love being a work in progress. 1390 01:21:54,880 --> 01:21:58,599 Speaker 1: I can't imagine not being a work in progress. I 1391 01:21:58,600 --> 01:22:01,439 Speaker 1: can't imagine. I've never met any buddy who isn't, even 1392 01:22:01,479 --> 01:22:04,880 Speaker 1: if they don't think they are. You know, I write 1393 01:22:04,880 --> 01:22:06,920 Speaker 1: about in the book a moment that I had again 1394 01:22:06,960 --> 01:22:16,080 Speaker 1: with Emily. We're talking about imperfections, and I realized that 1395 01:22:16,160 --> 01:22:18,639 Speaker 1: so much of what I want to bring to my films, 1396 01:22:18,720 --> 01:22:21,759 Speaker 1: to life, to social media, to everything that I do 1397 01:22:22,720 --> 01:22:29,080 Speaker 1: is a normalization of imperfections. And I looked down and 1398 01:22:29,120 --> 01:22:31,680 Speaker 1: I had written it out, and I realized for the 1399 01:22:31,680 --> 01:22:34,760 Speaker 1: first time, and maybe I've been ignorant to it, maybe 1400 01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:36,599 Speaker 1: other people have seen it, but I realized that when 1401 01:22:36,640 --> 01:22:38,719 Speaker 1: you look at the word, it actually says I'm perfect. 1402 01:22:42,080 --> 01:22:46,320 Speaker 1: And I had this moment of like, how can a 1403 01:22:46,439 --> 01:22:49,080 Speaker 1: word have caused me so much pain over the course 1404 01:22:49,160 --> 01:22:53,360 Speaker 1: of my existence, because I because we've been striving for 1405 01:22:53,439 --> 01:22:58,080 Speaker 1: perfections when in reality, the word imperfect is the very 1406 01:22:58,120 --> 01:23:02,160 Speaker 1: thing that makes us perfect. And I feel the same 1407 01:23:02,160 --> 01:23:05,439 Speaker 1: way about being a work in progress. M hm, you 1408 01:23:05,439 --> 01:23:10,120 Speaker 1: know when we're not, when we take our last breath. Yeah. 1409 01:23:10,760 --> 01:23:13,200 Speaker 1: So everything that I'm doing in my life, my way 1410 01:23:13,200 --> 01:23:17,240 Speaker 1: I'm raising my kids, the way I'm I'm showing up 1411 01:23:17,240 --> 01:23:20,120 Speaker 1: in my marriage, the way I'm trying to run a company, 1412 01:23:20,920 --> 01:23:25,000 Speaker 1: the actor. It's all a work in progress. And what 1413 01:23:25,160 --> 01:23:28,640 Speaker 1: I believe is that I think true vulnerability and bravery 1414 01:23:28,800 --> 01:23:33,479 Speaker 1: is actually championing that and leading with it instead of 1415 01:23:33,520 --> 01:23:35,960 Speaker 1: trying to cover it up and pretend like we should 1416 01:23:35,960 --> 01:23:39,840 Speaker 1: be somewhere. We're not here, here, my friend, here here. 1417 01:23:39,840 --> 01:23:41,440 Speaker 1: Here's to being works in progress.