Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,
Speaker 1: and we here at.
Speaker 2: Breaking points, are already thinking of ways we can up
Speaker 2: our game for this critical election.
Speaker 3: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade
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Speaker 2: Coverage that is possible.
Speaker 3: If you like what we're all about, it just means
Speaker 3: the absolute world to have your support.
Speaker 2: But enough with that, Let's get to the show. All right,
Speaker 2: good morning and welcome the counterpoints.
Speaker 4: Hi.
Speaker 2: You doing, Emily?
Speaker 5: I'm doing great? How are you? Ryan?
Speaker 2: We have an amazing show today, We really do.
Speaker 5: Today. We do have you know, we say it, but
Speaker 5: today we have an amazing show.
Speaker 6: I was telling Snager, I need more of his kid
Speaker 6: in the candy store energy in the show.
Speaker 5: You need more ghost energy.
Speaker 2: Yes, just just fired up and happy to be here.
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, Well maybe that's more of a psychological thing though.
Speaker 2: All right, there we go.
Speaker 5: Okay, I'll enjoy in your life.
Speaker 2: That might be it.
Speaker 5: There you go, that's it.
Speaker 2: Joy is rubbing off.
Speaker 6: So we're going to talk about RFK, A lot of RFK,
Speaker 6: and also people have been asking about the Friday Show.
Speaker 6: Back to Friday Shows, this Friday, we're going to have
Speaker 6: a debate over the kind of the role of RFK
Speaker 6: in this race, in his role in the general, whether
Speaker 6: or not he's going to actually be a boost to
Speaker 6: Trump or not, or whether he feeds into the Democratic
Speaker 6: weird meme that they're trying to wrap around Republicans.
Speaker 5: Yeah, we'll be joined by Michael Tracy and Jeff Hotto
Speaker 5: is a field director for our f K Junior's campaign,
Speaker 5: for a debate about the future of URFK Junior, is
Speaker 5: Trump endorsement, and all of that. So stay tuned to
Speaker 5: the Friday show for that debate, but it'll come out
Speaker 5: early for premium subscribers on Thursday night. We're going to
Speaker 5: cover We're going to start by covering the ongoing situation
Speaker 5: where Tulsea Gabbard and RFK Junior are now going to
Speaker 5: be stumping for Donald Trump on the campaign trail. He's
Speaker 5: sort of collecting his former Democrat Island of missfit toys
Speaker 5: and sending them out. And I don't say that derisively
Speaker 5: because I think we'll get into it.
Speaker 2: I don't want to tell the Republicans love theirs.
Speaker 6: I mean the Democrats love there as they put their
Speaker 6: Republicans on the stage at the convention.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we'll be.
Speaker 5: Doing some election updates. We have some interesting news about
Speaker 5: ballot access, about Kamala Harris's fundraising numbers which are eye popping.
Speaker 5: We're going to talk about the hostage release yesterday in Israel,
Speaker 5: and other updates.
Speaker 6: Mass massive raid by the IDF of the West Bank.
Speaker 6: They currently have Janine surrounded. Bizarrely, they are calling it
Speaker 6: Operation Summer Camps.
Speaker 2: Oh, would come on? Are you serious?
Speaker 5: You always also know the operation name, which I think
Speaker 5: is useful.
Speaker 2: I guess sometimes it is. Other times you're like, what
Speaker 2: are you doing?
Speaker 5: Such a window into the.
Speaker 2: Operation Summer Camps. Come on, it's so.
Speaker 5: Bizarre, all right. And then we'll be talking about Mark
Speaker 5: Zuckerberg's kind of concession, his regrets about censoring.
Speaker 2: Stakes were made, Mistakes were made, so we're censored.
Speaker 5: Right, And that's about both COVID and the Hunter Byden
Speaker 5: laptop story, as Zuckerberg put in a letter this week,
Speaker 5: So we will be talking about that and just the
Speaker 5: crazy ongoing situation with the French government and the French
Speaker 5: sort of their their attempts to form actually their attempts
Speaker 5: to government, and we'll tell you what Emmanuel Macron is
Speaker 5: up to, because it's a doozy.
Speaker 6: We were just saying that whenever your republic is called
Speaker 6: the fifth Republic, that might not bode well for its longevity.
Speaker 6: So we may be staring at the tail end of
Speaker 6: the fifth and the beginning of the sixth, and be
Speaker 6: interesting to see what do we have in the middle.
Speaker 5: Well, they just stop with the whole republic thing.
Speaker 6: There might be your sixth, that's true. Where's another? Are
Speaker 6: there any Napoleon airs around?
Speaker 2: There might be?
Speaker 5: There might be Brian tell Us about Dan Osborne, who's
Speaker 5: joining the show as a guest as well.
Speaker 2: This is fascinating.
Speaker 6: Everybody believes that control of the Senate and thus the
Speaker 6: agenda for whoever comes into office hinges on the Montana
Speaker 6: Senate race, that if Democrats and John Tess hold that one,
Speaker 6: that they're going to hold the Senate. There's also this
Speaker 6: wild card of Nebraska, where Democrats decided, you know what,
Speaker 6: people hate us so much, we're not even going to
Speaker 6: run a candidate Nebraska.
Speaker 2: Forget about it.
Speaker 6: The absolute political dynamo of Montana Republican Senator deb Fisher
Speaker 6: is unbeatable. Incomes veteran Dan Osborne, who led a massively
Speaker 6: successful strike in the state, and he's running a kind
Speaker 6: of class first independent campaign.
Speaker 2: Polls have him.
Speaker 6: Shouldn't be surprising to anybody that watches this program. Neck
Speaker 6: and neck with the brand name Republican in the state.
Speaker 6: You could have a scenario where this actually pans out,
Speaker 6: or this might be a Democratic gimmick that where they're
Speaker 6: just trying to cloak a Democrat in independent clothing. Yes,
Speaker 6: although one who happens to be a labor leader in
Speaker 6: the state and with a cool background. We'll ask Dan
Speaker 6: Osbourne which he is at the end of the program.
Speaker 5: Great well, looking forward to that. Let's start with Telsea
Speaker 5: Gabbard and also RFK Junior jumping into the race on
Speaker 5: behalf of Donald Trump. This has been developing over the
Speaker 5: course of the week. Obviously started with RFK Junior's announcement
Speaker 5: that he was formerly endorsing Trump, but has developed as
Speaker 5: Trump has brought them both on as campaign advisors. This
Speaker 5: is some of the big news, and we have a
Speaker 5: clip from RFK juniors an appearance on Talker Tucker reportedly
Speaker 5: helped kind of broker the negotiations about an endorsement and
Speaker 5: a dropout. So let's take a listen to what R. F. K.
Speaker 5: Junior said on an edition of Tucker Carlson Show that
Speaker 5: came out yesterday.
Speaker 7: I'm going to work to get him elected. And and
Speaker 7: you know, I'm working with the campaign. We're working on
Speaker 7: policy issues together, or I will. I've been asked to
Speaker 7: go onto the transition team and you know, to help
Speaker 7: pick the people who will be running the government. And
Speaker 7: I'm I'm looking forward to that, and I you know,
Speaker 7: I'm I'm going to fight. I don't know what would
Speaker 7: happen to me if we lose?
Speaker 1: Well, that's kind that was that's kind of I mean
Speaker 1: a lot of people I know personally and I'm friends
Speaker 1: with have gone to prison. One of them was in
Speaker 1: prison right now, Paubl Durroff. There are others, uh, like,
Speaker 1: what happens if he loses?
Speaker 2: To you, if he made if Trump loses and Kamala
Speaker 2: Harris becomes first.
Speaker 7: Oh, I don't know, but I mean, I listen, I know,
Speaker 7: I don't. I never really think about that.
Speaker 4: I want to.
Speaker 2: I think it good.
Speaker 7: What I think is okay, here's what I gotta do today.
Speaker 7: And you know, get up every day and I say,
Speaker 7: reporting for duties, sir, and then go do that, and
Speaker 7: you know, nothing's at christis. Everything's a task, right and
Speaker 7: and so that's what I'm gonna be kind of a
Speaker 7: happy warrior or not. You know, I'm I know what
Speaker 7: I have to do, so I'm going to do it.
Speaker 5: So Tulca Gabbard also made a speech at a National
Speaker 5: Guard it was Trump made a speech. She made her
Speaker 5: formal endorsement of Trump at a National Guard event in Detroit.
Speaker 5: So let's take a listen to Tulci Gabbard and as
Speaker 5: I took you up this clip, I also mentioned that
Speaker 5: it's worth remembering both RFK Junior and Tulsi endorsed Bernie
Speaker 5: Sanders in twenty sixteen. So here's what Tulcy Gabbart had
Speaker 5: to say at that speech.
Speaker 8: This administration has us facing multiple wars on multiple fronts
Speaker 8: and regions around the world, and closer to the brink
Speaker 8: of nuclear war than we ever have been before. This
Speaker 8: is one of the main reasons why I'm committed to
Speaker 8: doing all that I can to send President Trump back
Speaker 8: to the White House where he can once again serve
Speaker 8: us as our commander in chief. Because I am confident
Speaker 8: that his first task will be to do the work
Speaker 8: to walk us back from the brink of war. We
Speaker 8: cannot be prosperous unless we are at peace, and we
Speaker 8: can't live free as long as we have a government
Speaker 8: that is retaliating against its political opponents and undermining our
Speaker 8: civil liberties, weaponizing our very institutions against those they deem
Speaker 8: as a threat. Kamala Harris has done this over the
Speaker 8: last three and a half years. She won't hesitate to
Speaker 8: continue that if she is elected as president. President Trump
Speaker 8: has been their first and foremost target in this because
Speaker 8: they don't want us as voters to even have the
Speaker 8: option shint to vote for him. I've been their most
Speaker 8: recent target, added to a secret domestic terror watch list
Speaker 8: after exposing the truth about what kind of dangers we
Speaker 8: would face if Kamala Harris is elected as president.
Speaker 5: Okay, so that was Toulta Gabbard. She also and you
Speaker 5: could probably fill in the blanks from the speech, but said,
Speaker 5: one of the biggest resident reason Shoes endorsing Donald Trump
Speaker 5: is that there were no new wars started under his watch,
Speaker 5: and that was Thorne policy was a huge feature of
Speaker 5: the speech. I guess no surprise from Tulsa Gabbard. Now
Speaker 5: I don't know who.
Speaker 2: To blame quick programming.
Speaker 6: Note on that one, she mentioned that she was put
Speaker 6: on this terror watch list the Quiet Guys.
Speaker 2: Next week we're.
Speaker 6: Going to have Matt Taybe and Jeffrey Sachs on on
Speaker 6: the Friday Show. Yes, talking about other stuff, but Taybe
Speaker 6: has done a bunch of reporting on the Quiet Skies,
Speaker 6: Tulty Gabbard element, and so we can get an update
Speaker 6: on that anyway, Go ahead.
Speaker 5: No, No, I don't know who to blame for putting this
Speaker 5: crystalliz a tweet in the rundown, because why you put
Speaker 5: a three up on this green crystal is a tweeted
Speaker 5: this fairly interesting graph that comes from the Pew Research Center. Now,
Speaker 5: what's also pretty interesting about this. You're seeing how Harris
Speaker 5: Trump supporters view key cultural issues. If you're listening to this,
Speaker 5: that's what the graphic says. Goes down the line of
Speaker 5: gun ownership, how the legacy of slavery affects a position
Speaker 5: of black people in America today, openness to people from
Speaker 5: all over the world, religion should be kept separate from
Speaker 5: government policies, and what you see is just really intense polarization.
Speaker 5: That was also the same between Biden's supporters and Trump supporters,
Speaker 5: which is fairly interesting. Pew redid the poll after Harris
Speaker 5: got in the race, because Harris has actually gotten RFK
Speaker 5: Junior voters. This is also from KEW who were supporting
Speaker 5: him in July broke for Harris two to one according
Speaker 5: to their research between July and August. So this is
Speaker 5: all happening against the backdrop of really start cultural polarization.
Speaker 5: And I think that's what makes it doubly interesting that
Speaker 5: both RFK Junior and Tulsa Gabbard come from positions supporting
Speaker 5: Bernie Sanders. Tulsi basically memorably was the vice chair of
Speaker 5: the DNC. These are not you know, people who were
Speaker 5: sort of figuring out what they believed, and you know
Speaker 5: the type of centrists who were brokereen deals with like
Speaker 5: the never Trump Adam Kinsinger's I mean, these are ideological.
Speaker 5: These are ideological like you might take it if I
Speaker 5: say leftists, but they were at least close to that.
Speaker 6: I think what's what I think what's telling and interesting
Speaker 6: about both of them is that they're they're both they
Speaker 6: both have eccentric and kind of malleable politics.
Speaker 2: And what is and that's not a criticism.
Speaker 6: What that means is that when there's a realignment happening,
Speaker 6: when there's a shift on the move, they are going
Speaker 6: to be the first types of people who are on
Speaker 6: the move. Gabbard was the kind of so when she
Speaker 6: first ran in her primary, she was considered the more
Speaker 6: conservative of the Democrats running in the primary, and there
Speaker 6: was some skepticism of her coming in because of this
Speaker 6: really ardent support of the global war on terror, which
Speaker 6: is one of her few positions that has remained completely
Speaker 6: consistent throughout her career.
Speaker 5: And it's why conservative is a weird label for her,
Speaker 5: among many other reasons.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so.
Speaker 6: Then in February twenty sixteen, right before Super Tuesday, she
Speaker 6: resigned from vice chair of DNC and supported Bernie Sanders.
Speaker 6: But then in twenty twenty she ran herself rather than
Speaker 6: support Sanders, and then after dropping out, instead of endorsing Sanders,
Speaker 6: who was still running, she endorsed Biden, which is a
Speaker 6: weird like it's that's not really on the horseshoe. That's
Speaker 6: her just kind of going on the spectrum, the old
Speaker 6: traditional spectrum with a little with a little stop in
Speaker 6: the middle, and then becoming an independent and then an
Speaker 6: independent Conservative and then a Republican and then a Trump,
Speaker 6: a Trump supporter. But I do think this is not
Speaker 6: a christ of hers. What it says that I think
Speaker 6: somebody like her who has kind of the kind of
Speaker 6: politics that a lot of people have, which you have,
Speaker 6: you know, some you agree with some people over here
Speaker 6: and you are with some people over there, defies categoration
Speaker 6: that she would be more attracted to the kind of
Speaker 6: looser coalition that is that is Trump right now.
Speaker 5: And she's also correct me if I remember, she's apposed
Speaker 5: like a Medicare for all populist economic person as well.
Speaker 6: She definitely was be interesting to see recently. I saw
Speaker 6: her saying stuff about how government spending is out of control,
Speaker 6: you've got to, you know, attack the deficit, very non
Speaker 6: Burnie type stuff.
Speaker 2: But she should come on the program now.
Speaker 6: As his UH as an ambassador. We love them as
Speaker 6: a surrogate and say, look, we'll talk about where where
Speaker 6: you are on that, because Trump is for all that
Speaker 6: stuff practically, I mean, if it depends on his mood.
Speaker 6: But there was that famous moment where Paul Ryan's like
Speaker 6: trying to repeal Obamacare for like the fifty third time,
Speaker 6: and Trump's like, why don't we just.
Speaker 2: Do single pair.
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's we're not gonna do that.
Speaker 5: Well, you know there might be some issue.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're not doing that.
Speaker 6: We're not that party, right, But Trump was he care
Speaker 6: now it is a good health care.
Speaker 5: Ran I particularly wanted to get your take at actually
Speaker 5: speaking about that on this clip from RFK Junior where
Speaker 5: he's discussing how the environmental movement's obsession with carbon started
Speaker 5: to push him away from the Democratic Party, away from
Speaker 5: the left. He calls Tucker Carlson a radical environmentalist. Tucker
Speaker 5: agrees with that very heartily, and I think it fits
Speaker 5: into this broader discussion about how increasingly a lot of
Speaker 5: normal Americans just defy categorization. That might be because of Trump,
Speaker 5: by the way. You know, people feel like they don't
Speaker 5: belong in the Republican Party because they're really uncomfortable with
Speaker 5: Donald Trump, and they're really uncomfortable for support for Donald Trump.
Speaker 5: Or you have people like Telsea Gabbard and RFK JR.
Speaker 5: RFK Junior in particular has some colorful quotes about Donald
Speaker 5: Trump from years past where he's highly critical of him.
Speaker 5: So it's kind of a remarkable turn of events to
Speaker 5: what you were just speaking about. How does Tulsea Gabbard
Speaker 5: go from endorsing Bernie to endorsing Biden to endorsing Donald Try,
Speaker 5: And I'm thinking about Tulsi and Afghanistan. You know, Biden
Speaker 5: wanted to end the war in Afghanistan. Everybody sort of
Speaker 5: has their big priorities and they say, I can deprioritize
Speaker 5: all of these other policy issues where I disagree with
Speaker 5: one Canada not because I think what they're going to
Speaker 5: do on this particular issue, which is my priority, which
Speaker 5: I think is the most important thing in the country,
Speaker 5: is going to get done under them. That's kind of
Speaker 5: what our Ka Junior is talking about here with the environment.
Speaker 5: So let's roll this clip of him talking to Tucker Carlson.
Speaker 1: You literally spent your life river Keepers as an environmentalist,
Speaker 1: environmental lawyer in the environmental movement. I mean, that's that's
Speaker 1: your life work product. Have you been expelled from the
Speaker 1: movement pretty much? Yeah.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 7: The weird thing is I think of you as a
Speaker 7: radical environmentalist.
Speaker 2: Well, I definitely am. Yeah you are.
Speaker 1: I haven't showered inside in ten years. Yeah, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I feel it so strongly. Also, you know, you love nature.
Speaker 7: You're again to these big projects that are desloying it,
Speaker 7: and you know you you talk about and the environmental
Speaker 7: movement no longer talks about toxics anymore.
Speaker 2: They don't care about it. I talked Roger.
Speaker 7: L's all the time that both of us know Who
Speaker 7: who who would let me occasionally onto Fox News to
Speaker 7: talk about it. But there was so much hostility from
Speaker 7: the Republican Party because it was like, you're attacking corporate
Speaker 7: profit taking and that these are chemicals, they're molecules. Who
Speaker 7: cares you know, they can't hurt you. And there was
Speaker 7: just and then you do this incredible show on Enracrin Disruptors,
Speaker 7: and I'm like, oh my god, Tucker Carlson has just
Speaker 7: done the best show that's ever been done, showing you
Speaker 7: know what's happening with eddercrin Disruptors, how they're just destroying us.
Speaker 7: And the Democrats went after you and the environmental movement
Speaker 7: and I'm like, what you know, this is what we've
Speaker 7: been trying to get for forty years, the Republicans that
Speaker 7: care about these issues. And they said, oh, he's saying
Speaker 7: that chemicals turned people gay, he's any gay and all
Speaker 7: this stuff, and that wasn't where you said at all.
Speaker 7: And that's not what anybody said, Ryan.
Speaker 5: You're a hippie. Is he right? Is he right that
Speaker 5: toxins in particular, because that's what he's doing. He's saying. Listen,
Speaker 5: Donald Trump has said that he might give me the
Speaker 5: ability to have some oversight over public health, the obesity crisis,
Speaker 5: the chemical crisis, the metabolic disease crisis. You know, I
Speaker 5: think that is the most important thing in the world
Speaker 5: and if we don't deal with it, you know, that's
Speaker 5: why I'm basically supporting Donald Trump. So is he right
Speaker 5: that the environmental movement has moved away from those priorities
Speaker 5: in a way that's alienating sort of old school RFK
Speaker 5: junior environmentalists or is he mischaracterizing on it.
Speaker 6: I don't know if it's alienating old school or K
Speaker 6: junior types other than him. But he's absolutely right about
Speaker 6: the focus on carbon and climate change, Like there's no
Speaker 6: question about that. I don't think, And we could get
Speaker 6: him back on the show and ask him. I don't
Speaker 6: think it needs to be an either or, like climate
Speaker 6: change is an existential threat to us, like the Middle
Speaker 6: East is going through right, Like as we speak, one
Speaker 6: of its worst heat waves in history, just looked at
Speaker 6: like one hundred and ten in Baghdad, which I understand
Speaker 6: people like, oh, it's the Middle East, it's hot over there.
Speaker 2: No, it's like much hotter than.
Speaker 6: Normal, and we are facing massive problems as a result
Speaker 6: of it. His point that we have overlooked toxicity is
Speaker 6: dead on. There's no constituency right now calling out forever
Speaker 6: plastics except right, yes, And that was an interesting program
Speaker 6: that he did on.
Speaker 2: Disruptors and plastics.
Speaker 6: And also the way that our food food system is
Speaker 6: poisoning us basically at an industrial level. These are all
Speaker 6: like also existential questions that we need to be faced.
Speaker 2: So it shouldn't be an either or because you have
Speaker 2: to get them both right.
Speaker 6: If you'll get one right and you don't get the
Speaker 6: other right, good luck.
Speaker 2: But so, yes, we do need to focus on them both.
Speaker 2: It would be kind of a.
Speaker 6: Shame if you wound up with like one party it's
Speaker 6: like we need to deal with toxics and the other
Speaker 6: ones we need to deal with carbon, and they're like,
Speaker 6: I forget it, let's just do neither.
Speaker 5: It's crazy because you can easily see, like the revival
Speaker 5: of the country Khan trope is exploding more than it
Speaker 5: was when Rodre originally wrote the book Country Conservatives, like
Speaker 5: this is right now. I've never seen anything like this
Speaker 5: in the Republican Party where you have people like Ovia
Speaker 5: Junior and Telca Gabbard supporting Donald Trump and talking about
Speaker 5: these issues, people like Tucker Carlson openly talking about these issues.
Speaker 5: You could easily see a world where we see this
Speaker 5: on economic policy a lot, healthcare policy a lot. You
Speaker 5: just never end up putting the two pieces together. They
Speaker 5: can have conversations and be like, yes, your right.
Speaker 10: This is so important, and this this is one where
Speaker 10: you cas a part where you really have to bring
Speaker 10: both sides together on this because you can't approach the
Speaker 10: question of toxicity and toxics in our in our food
Speaker 10: system and our water from a personal responsibility right wing frame.
Speaker 2: Right right right, You just can't. It's like, hey, have
Speaker 2: better personal responsibility find while it doesn't have plastic in it.
Speaker 6: You can go to an Arctic and you can't find
Speaker 6: that this is a global problem that requires a global, literal,
Speaker 6: top down solution that can be like democratically executed and
Speaker 6: agreed upon by everybody.
Speaker 2: But yeah, just saying like we need to and it
Speaker 2: goes to.
Speaker 6: The the kind of environmentalism that corporate America tried to
Speaker 6: foist onto the world in the nineties and eighties, nineties
Speaker 6: and two thousands. One of them was one of their
Speaker 6: big scams was recited where they're like, just take personal
Speaker 6: responsibility and put you know, separate things, put them in
Speaker 6: these bins.
Speaker 2: You feel like you're doing something good.
Speaker 6: Then they'll all put them all in the same place,
Speaker 6: and then they'll just make that much more more plastic.
Speaker 6: The second was when they invented the term carbon footprint,
Speaker 6: as if every every particular act you have, you take,
Speaker 6: has some particular carbon footprint, and then if you just
Speaker 6: buy offsets for your little carbon footprint, then actually everything's okay,
Speaker 6: it's great.
Speaker 2: Scan rather than saying no, no.
Speaker 6: No, the problem is the industrial production of blasting carbon
Speaker 6: into the atmosphere that needs to be rained in at
Speaker 6: a global level, not by a few people, like making
Speaker 6: different choices and biking rather than driving, which you should do,
Speaker 6: but you should do. You should do all these things
Speaker 6: because they're good for you, not because you think that
Speaker 6: they're going to be the solution to a global crisis.
Speaker 5: Well, and that's the opening for I think conversation with
Speaker 5: conservatives and it's bubbling into something that's more than a conversation,
Speaker 5: which is where that's particularly worth watching because some of
Speaker 5: these things, right, like when you're trying to talk about
Speaker 5: healthcare or right left alliance or trade or right left alliance,
Speaker 5: you can have all these conversations and then you hit
Speaker 5: a brick wall because ultimately you don't want to be
Speaker 5: seen with Donald Trump or you don't want to be
Speaker 5: seen with Joe Biden. Like Chips, great example, at ultimately passed,
Speaker 5: but a lot of Republicans ended up dropping out of
Speaker 5: their support for Chips, which they had like shepherded through
Speaker 5: the Senate and through Congress. And here, I mean, I
Speaker 5: just don't know where this goes because to your point,
Speaker 5: I mean, if conservatives are concerned about forever plastics, microplastics
Speaker 5: and disruptors all of these things, you also have to
Speaker 5: I mean, that's tethered for many people, like Rfkjunior, to
Speaker 5: climate to production of like intense industrial production levels. So
Speaker 5: we'll see, we'll see how it ends up.
Speaker 6: Right, there has to be an an actual earnest conversation
Speaker 6: about it, because it gets really interesting because on the
Speaker 6: forever plastics, for instance, one of the leading sources of
Speaker 6: them and you go down this rabbit hole. Is car
Speaker 6: tires like the rubber and car tires, and you need
Speaker 6: stronger tires to drive heavier evs. So paradoxically, the more
Speaker 6: evs you get, the more toxic tires you have, and
Speaker 6: then the more forever.
Speaker 2: Plastics you have out there.
Speaker 6: You could be the oil industry be like, Aha, that
Speaker 6: shows we shouldn't we shouldn't do EV's, we shouldn't care
Speaker 6: about climate at all.
Speaker 2: Or you could say, okay, these are problems.
Speaker 6: We're not morons, like, we can figure we can get
Speaker 6: together and collectively figure this out if our goal is
Speaker 6: to actually make a better planet and not to just
Speaker 6: protect like incumbent oil industries or plastic industries or whatever
Speaker 6: whatever else.
Speaker 5: Sure, well it'll be a fun one to watch.
Speaker 2: Yes, for sure.
Speaker 5: There is some also RFK Junior news, but we're gonna
Speaker 5: get into how this affects the election more broadly. We
Speaker 5: can put up B one on the screen. This is
Speaker 5: an Axios report that shows Michigan denying Robert F. Kennedy
Speaker 5: Junior's attempt to get off of the presidential ballot in Michigan.
Speaker 5: They say it's too late for him to remove his
Speaker 5: name from office according to the Office of the Secretary
Speaker 5: of State in Michigan. Now that may not seem like
Speaker 5: a big deal, it actually really is because we remember
Speaker 5: how close the margins were in states like Michigan, Wisconsin,
Speaker 5: and Pennsylvania, especially in twenty sixteen. Speaking of those states,
Speaker 5: we can go ahead and put the next element up
Speaker 5: on the screen. He's also going to remain on the
Speaker 5: ballot in Nevada, North Carolina, and guess what, Wisconsin, Blue
Speaker 5: Wall state. So Ryan, I've seen some theories floating around
Speaker 5: that this is kind of an effort to hurt Donald
Speaker 5: Trump on behalf of like these DEM officials in these
Speaker 5: states who want to give voters who may be torn
Speaker 5: between RFK Junior and Donald Trump the option of voting
Speaker 5: for RFK Junior, because you know, there are a lot
Speaker 5: of double haters and they're just gonna say, I'd rather
Speaker 5: not vote for Trump. I'm going for this Robert F.
Speaker 5: Kennedy Junior guy. You know, reasonably many people don't follow
Speaker 5: the news as closely as we do. Mercifully, it sounds
Speaker 5: like a wonderful life, but they may not. Even by
Speaker 5: the time I would assume everybody knows what happened but
Speaker 5: a lot of people are tuned out, and reasonably so.
Speaker 5: So I don't know that it's like a conspiracy, but
Speaker 5: it definitely does seem like it could have a small
Speaker 5: positive effect on the Harris campaign almost of the Biden campaign.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Democrats started by trying to keep him off ballots.
Speaker 6: Now that one, I'm desperately trying to keep him on.
Speaker 6: Some of it is his own fault. In Nevada, the
Speaker 6: deadline was August twentieth, Like, you show up in person,
Speaker 6: you like the laws, you have to show up in
Speaker 6: person and file by August twentieth to get yourself off.
Speaker 2: He didn't.
Speaker 6: It was like August twenty whatever that he decided to
Speaker 6: endorse Trump. So the election of Viduals, they're like, look,
Speaker 6: we got rules, rules of rules in Wisconsin. I think
Speaker 6: he was nominated by the Natural Law Party and they
Speaker 6: held a.
Speaker 2: Convention, and that could mean so many things. I know,
Speaker 2: it's great.
Speaker 6: So just for people who don't mercifully, you know, haven't
Speaker 6: looked into this throughout their life, it's very difficult to
Speaker 6: get on these ballots around the country, and so one
Speaker 6: thing people try to do is try to find a
Speaker 6: party that doesn't have a candidate and a party that
Speaker 6: just for some bizarre quirk of state history, has ballot access.
Speaker 6: And so RFK Junior found the Natural Law Party in Wisconsin,
Speaker 6: and I as his campaign, was like, Hey, anybody running
Speaker 6: for this, can we run for it? They ran for
Speaker 6: that nomination, they won it, and Wisconsin said, look, in
Speaker 6: order to get him off of a party's ballot, because
Speaker 6: he's not an independent, they would have to have another
Speaker 6: convention vote to get him off and get a new candidate.
Speaker 2: And there's just there's no time.
Speaker 6: Like ballots are going out North Carolina ballots are going
Speaker 6: on September sixth. I was just going to say, and
Speaker 6: something like a third of North Carolina's one hundred counties
Speaker 6: have already sent their ballots to the printer.
Speaker 2: So like we're getting into actual practical.
Speaker 6: Problems like which if it weren't for them, would Trump
Speaker 6: just like say thanks JD and just put RFK Junior
Speaker 6: as this running mate? You think if he could, if
Speaker 6: you think if logistically it could be done, he'd be like,
Speaker 6: you know what, let's just have the candidate Trump Kennedy.
Speaker 5: No, I don't know, because I think Trump I would
Speaker 5: be very curious to hear. I haven't heard this from
Speaker 5: many people, like just journalistically what Trump really thinks of
Speaker 5: RFK Junior, because one of the things with him is
Speaker 5: if you endorse him, if you sort of engage in
Speaker 5: these negotiations with him, he doesn't always respect you. He
Speaker 5: feels like he sort of owns you. And I don't
Speaker 5: know if he has that level of respect for Robert F.
Speaker 2: Kennedy JD Vance. He took JD Vance from like third
Speaker 2: to first in the Senate race.
Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, that's true. Although RFK Junior is sort of yeah,
Speaker 5: I don't know, he's just like he's.
Speaker 2: Kind of kooky and trying to be trumped on.
Speaker 11: Like his voice Trump, Well, that's also.
Speaker 6: Junior is like kid or whoever leaked that phone call
Speaker 6: that must have ticked him off.
Speaker 5: I'm sure.
Speaker 2: Oh.
Speaker 6: In North Carolina, to wrap that one up, they have
Speaker 6: said that I forget what party he's running on there,
Speaker 6: but they said they've gotten no word from the party
Speaker 6: that has nominated RFK Junior in North Carolina that he
Speaker 6: wants to be off the ballot, because you would think like, Okay,
Speaker 6: we had a press conference, we said we want yes.
Speaker 6: But he also in North Carolina's defense, he said I'm
Speaker 6: going to remove my name from ten battleground states where
Speaker 6: I think it's competitive, but I'm going to keep my
Speaker 6: name on in the other states for some reason. So
Speaker 6: in North Carolina's defense, they are like, look, okay, unless
Speaker 6: we get a phone call, yeah, then we're not going
Speaker 6: to take any deliberate action.
Speaker 5: Once everyone gets back from the Labor Day holiday, it
Speaker 5: is shocking how quickly.
Speaker 2: The voting these ball let's ballots are going out.
Speaker 5: So I just have this calendar in front of me.
Speaker 5: There are a lot of states that are forty five
Speaker 5: days out from election, fifty days out from election in
Speaker 5: one or two. I think one of those might include Pennsylvania.
Speaker 5: So people are like quite literally going to start voting
Speaker 5: very very soon around the time of the first debate,
Speaker 5: which is scheduled for September tenth, because I think when
Speaker 5: we get back from Labor Day next week, they're about
Speaker 5: sixty days left before the election, so it's coming up
Speaker 5: extremely fast. Tons of pragmatic questions now. James Carvel to
Speaker 5: this point about Donald Trump, was on a show recently
Speaker 5: talking about Trump's efforts to like write the ship of
Speaker 5: his campaign amid the and maybe I'm just going to
Speaker 5: go out of order to the control room here. It's
Speaker 5: in the context of what we saw happen with Kamala Harris.
Speaker 5: This is before a report from al Jazer, but it's
Speaker 5: been also reported elsewhere that her fundraising numbers are at
Speaker 5: a record level right now. I think she's hauled in
Speaker 5: some five hundred and forty million dollars just after the DMS.
Speaker 5: Just after the DNS is the presidential record eighty two
Speaker 5: million during the convention.
Speaker 6: Itselfne Bernie raised in twenty sixteen two hundred and fifty
Speaker 6: million from small dollars, and that was amazing, which and
Speaker 6: which broke all kinds of small dollar records. I mean,
Speaker 6: Obama was as separate, separate case. That was the campaign,
Speaker 6: you know, that included the general election. This is just weeks,
Speaker 6: shattering records in weeks, and I think people need to
Speaker 6: understand that this also.
Speaker 2: If you believe that.
Speaker 6: That politicians are bought and can be bought, which you
Speaker 6: should believe because that's obvious, to have that, to have
Speaker 6: them bought by five hundred and forty million dollars largely
Speaker 6: from just normal people is actually a really good thing
Speaker 6: for our democracy, and the Republicans are moving in that
Speaker 6: direction too. Just filling up your inbox, and Democrats to
Speaker 6: the same thing, to fill up your inbox, begging you
Speaker 6: for money, and then in moments of real enthusiasm, you
Speaker 6: go and you're like okay, fine, and you give. Obviously
Speaker 6: you give Kamala Harris five hundred and forty million dollars.
Speaker 5: So Kamala Harris has also one point five million new donors,
Speaker 5: which is really interesting coming in after Biden drops off
Speaker 5: the ticket. So that's people who weren't previously giving to
Speaker 5: the Biden campaign. This is according to The New York
Speaker 5: Times who analyze the disclosures, which is I think fairly significant.
Speaker 5: Actually just in and of herself was.
Speaker 6: Giving to the Biden campaign, like I mean, I know,
Speaker 6: like big, big money people of course would do that
Speaker 6: because that's their job and they're say influence.
Speaker 2: But if you're a regular person.
Speaker 5: Because you hate Trump, I mean you're you're genuinely hate Trump.
Speaker 2: But it was so embarrassing open, that's so demoralized. Yeah,
Speaker 2: this is just uncorked, like enthusiasm.
Speaker 5: The New York Times reports hairstonors were slightly more likely
Speaker 5: to come from more educated ZIP areas and more educated
Speaker 5: areas ZIP code were more than half of those twenty
Speaker 5: five and over had a bachelor's degree at and Miss
Speaker 5: Harris also claimed a slightly high share first time small
Speaker 5: dollar donors from zip codes. We're more than five percent
Speaker 5: of the population was black, so that's where some of
Speaker 5: that one point five million new donors are coming in.
Speaker 5: But this is obviously if you're the Trump campaign right now,
Speaker 5: you're on your heels. These numbers are astounding. So let's
Speaker 5: go ahead and roll this clip of James Carvell talking
Speaker 5: about how Trump has how in his mind as a
Speaker 5: democratic sort of legendary mythical democratic strategist analyzed the Trump
Speaker 5: campaigns or Donald Trump Himself's reaction to harry S joining
Speaker 5: the ticket.
Speaker 12: He like shock, like survival instinct, and he knows that
Speaker 12: he's not having the same effect as he used to.
Speaker 12: He knows that Harris has become what he's always wanted
Speaker 12: to be. Is the kind of hard item he does,
Speaker 12: and he's not the new kid on the bock anymore,
Speaker 12: and he's struggling to regain that. But he he, like
Speaker 12: I say, he has very primitive survival skills, and I
Speaker 12: think this is something that is driving him crazy, right.
Speaker 2: I think what you're saying is he's in deep in
Speaker 2: deep trouble and is aware of it.
Speaker 12: He is, he is, and he's aware of and now
Speaker 12: how he gets out of it? Oh, Kenny, get out
Speaker 12: of it?
Speaker 5: I don't know very primitive survival skills. So James Carlin's
Speaker 5: as well said, well, I mean I don't know. He
Speaker 5: survived pretty long at this point.
Speaker 2: So, but primitive creatures survive for millennia.
Speaker 5: Fair enough. Fair enough. Now the interesting, well, it is
Speaker 5: beyond interesting. I mean, it's always worth remembering. It kind
Speaker 5: of feels like it gets lost in all of this.
Speaker 6: But a primitive is a compliment, by the way, because
Speaker 6: it's like that that's those are the best survival skills.
Speaker 2: Okay, you don't.
Speaker 5: I don't think he was using.
Speaker 2: You don't want an accountant survival skills?
Speaker 5: True, but James carvill seemed to be using it in
Speaker 5: this sense that like he's a kind of dthal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think he respects an Okay, okay, as.
Speaker 5: A Clinton a Clinton operative, fair enough. Well, Donald Trump
Speaker 5: is in quote deep trouble because if he loses this
Speaker 5: election amidst this flood of cash for his opponent and
Speaker 5: a polling surge for his opponent, he could be facing
Speaker 5: jail time. He can't dismiss, for example, the DJ's case
Speaker 5: against him, the Jacksmith case against him, just reup, can't
Speaker 5: pardon people, right, Yeah, just refiled yesterday to comply with
Speaker 5: the Supreme Court's ruling on presidential immunity or to make
Speaker 5: it more to sharpen it in light of what the
Speaker 5: Supreme Court decided in that case. So he is quote
Speaker 5: in deep trouble if he loses the election, because you know,
Speaker 5: obviously his freedom is on the line.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we can put up B five here.
Speaker 6: Democrats are now getting extremely confident, about extremely confident, but
Speaker 6: they're getting excited about the possibility of actually flipping the House.
Speaker 6: And you know, we're going to talk to Dan Osborne,
Speaker 6: Senate candidate at the end of this show. Because Democrats
Speaker 6: actually also believe that they have a chance of holding
Speaker 6: the Senate, like there is a chance that they could.
Speaker 6: They went from assuming and several members of Congress and
Speaker 6: this articles said that they were going to lose all
Speaker 6: three chambers decisively to thinking we might actually win all
Speaker 6: three of these at this time and a Democratic operative
Speaker 6: was making an interesting point to me about Harris that
Speaker 6: I think plays into this, which is that there's a
Speaker 6: key difference between her and Barack Obama in this sense
Speaker 6: that in two thousand and eight, the Democrats and independent
Speaker 6: progressives and others kind of invested their hopes into Obama
Speaker 6: as this transformative, unique leader who is going to you know,
Speaker 6: take them somewhere new, like he was the guy that
Speaker 6: was going to do it. They absolutely do not think
Speaker 6: of Kamala Harris that way. What they think of as
Speaker 6: when they think of Kamala Harris, they think of somebody
Speaker 6: who can be the vessel for their for people's ability
Speaker 6: to fight against Trump, that like she'll do interesting, and
Speaker 6: they're actually just they're rooting for her, you know, And
Speaker 6: that's why they're I think fine that she hasn't had
Speaker 6: any interviews yet at all, and when they watched that
Speaker 6: interview Thursday night that she's going to do with Dana Bash,
Speaker 6: they're all just gonna be on pins and needles and
Speaker 6: with their fingers crossing, like please, Comma, please come please, Kamla,
Speaker 6: just you know, hoping that she does well enough that
Speaker 6: she can then be the thing that they use to
Speaker 6: kind of fight back against Trump. Whereas when it was Obama,
Speaker 6: they would have been sitting back and just watching and
Speaker 6: like allowing Obama's genius to like wash over them.
Speaker 5: Yes, and I think like the joy washes over.
Speaker 2: No, that's their joy in Biden being gone.
Speaker 6: And I think it's actually paradoxically a much a much
Speaker 6: healthier relation. They have a much healthier relationship with Kamala Harris.
Speaker 6: You should not invest all your hopes into a politician.
Speaker 6: You should actually have no confidence in them at all,
Speaker 6: I mean, and need to kind of push them and
Speaker 6: drag them, because that's the democratic will then kind of working,
Speaker 6: rather than this this guy is going to take us
Speaker 6: to the Promised Land.
Speaker 5: The magical transformation of Kamala Harris, though, I think has
Speaker 5: some people who are previously very cynical about her now
Speaker 5: genuinely investing like emotionally in Paris as a human being hilarious,
Speaker 5: which is, yeah, it is absolutely wild. So to your point,
Speaker 5: also a brilliant move I think by the Harris campaign
Speaker 5: to finally agree to a sit down interview. It's going
Speaker 5: to be a joint interview with Harrison Walls.
Speaker 2: On CNN forward as possible.
Speaker 5: And yeah, weeks ago she said she hopes her team
Speaker 5: will schedule and by the end of the month it
Speaker 5: is like right, it's happening on Thursday night, literally the eve.
Speaker 2: Of maybe we'll get one by the end of September.
Speaker 5: Maybe if we're lucky. But I mean it's just like
Speaker 5: tactically it's the same thing with this entire campaign. It
Speaker 5: has been such a risk averse campaign, and I think
Speaker 5: it's like anti small dy democratic from you know, the hypocritical.
Speaker 2: And Vice presidency.
Speaker 6: We played a couple of months ago that that clip
Speaker 6: with Lester Holt where she sits down to.
Speaker 2: Do an interview on the border.
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, and he asks her, you know, why haven't
Speaker 6: you gone to the border. She's like, I have gone
Speaker 6: to the border. He's like, no, you haven't. She's like, oh, well,
Speaker 6: I haven't gone to Europe either. It was the most
Speaker 6: surreal exchange, like why did you just say you went
Speaker 6: to the border.
Speaker 2: It doesn't make any sense. She didn't do an interview
Speaker 2: for like a year after that.
Speaker 5: She's not I mean, it's not her strength. It could
Speaker 5: be pale A esque, but you know, she's feeling herself
Speaker 5: right now and that goes a long way just in
Speaker 5: terms of your personal confidence when you're in these interviews
Speaker 5: and it can backfire on you too.
Speaker 6: And having walls there It's kind of a funny move.
Speaker 6: And also for this tiny ecosystem on the right, the
Speaker 6: Laura Lumers of the world, who were convinced that Democrats
Speaker 6: deeply regretted their choice of Walls and that he was
Speaker 6: going to be swapped out for whoever any minute now,
Speaker 6: they must be very confused by Kamala Harris like asking
Speaker 6: Walls to join her in her first interview.
Speaker 2: They might like, how do you make sense of that?
Speaker 6: If you're if you're convinced that he's actually like cooked
Speaker 6: and they're embarrassed by him.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't know. It's a good point, but any
Speaker 5: mistakes they make will absolutely be buried in the Labor
Speaker 5: Day weekend. I mean, it's is Thursday, so Friday. Many
Speaker 5: people are already on vacation. DC is like all in
Speaker 5: the Hampton's right now, so everything, yeah, city's empty. Everything
Speaker 5: will just be buried anyway. So sort of a brilliant move.
Speaker 5: As much as I hate it. Game, respect game, All right, Ryan,
Speaker 5: Let's move on and move on to the Middle East
Speaker 5: and the invasion of the West Bank, which is ongoing
Speaker 5: right now. Tell us what happened.
Speaker 6: So last last night, the IDF launched what they called
Speaker 6: Operation summer camps, which is an invasion of you know,
Speaker 6: major parts of the of the occupied West Bank focused
Speaker 6: heavily on Jane, the refugee camp of Janine. So we
Speaker 6: can put this first element up. Associated Press was reporting
Speaker 6: that every entry in and out of Janine was being
Speaker 6: blocked by armored vehicles.
Speaker 2: And that what you can see on the screen here, Yeah, and.
Speaker 6: That the hospitals were you know, they had blocked access
Speaker 6: to all hospitals and other medical centers. Their argument was
Speaker 6: they didn't want to allow people to kind of shelter
Speaker 6: in hospitals, and so they have said that this is
Speaker 6: the largest assault. The Israeli Army announced that this is
Speaker 6: the largest assault on the West Bank since two thousand
Speaker 6: and two, that will involve thousands of service members and
Speaker 6: will last for days. And they have said it's a
Speaker 6: preemptive attack on what they said is the build up
Speaker 6: of resistance groups in these in these refugee camps. Uh,
Speaker 6: they just you know, they just did a preemptive.
Speaker 2: Attack on on Hasbal.
Speaker 6: A lot of you know, a lot of a lot
Speaker 6: of preemptive attacking going on, the preemptive attacks for decades.
Speaker 2: At this point, at least.
Speaker 6: Nine Palcidians were killed in this in this attack, which
Speaker 6: so far, which is a number that, yeah, which pales
Speaker 6: in comparison to the to this day the numbers of
Speaker 6: deaths that you get in Gaza from the ongoing Israeli attacks.
Speaker 6: You're also having, uh, and we can talk about this
Speaker 6: later in a bit, an attack on Southern Communis by
Speaker 6: the IDF arrayed there, which appears to be based on
Speaker 6: intelligence gleaned from the Bedouin hostage who befriended This is
Speaker 6: this is what we're hearing in the media. By all accounts,
Speaker 6: it appears to be true that he did, you know,
Speaker 6: he had a good had a good rapport with some
Speaker 6: of his captors and what and has been debriefing with
Speaker 6: the IDEF continuously since he was really and that the
Speaker 6: coincidence of the kind of raid on South Communist seems
Speaker 6: to suggest that, uh, the IDF believes that they have
Speaker 6: intel that they can they can operate on. So we
Speaker 6: may soon be hearing new you know, the the bodies
Speaker 6: of hostages being recovered or more more, hostage rescues.
Speaker 2: The way that.
Speaker 6: The the way that the bed One hostage was rescued,
Speaker 6: it turns out, was because communications were disabled, you know,
Speaker 6: between because the infrastructure is so completely annihilated in Gaza
Speaker 6: that you know, different Hamas operatives lost lost communication and
Speaker 6: basically they weren't able to keep up with people. A
Speaker 6: number of hostages were recently found suffocated in a tunnel
Speaker 6: after an idea of bombing, and so there's a huge
Speaker 6: risk two hostages of the of the the constant shelling
Speaker 6: and the and the constant attacks and destruction the infrastructure,
Speaker 6: and the the inability of you know, of their captors
Speaker 6: to communicate with each other because they're you know, they
Speaker 6: don't want them to die, like they want to keep
Speaker 6: them alive. This guy, uh very You don't want to
Speaker 6: call anybody who went through that ten months of hell lucky,
Speaker 6: but lucky in the sense that the tunnel didn't collapse
Speaker 6: on him and you didn't suffocate.
Speaker 5: And we've heard that from other rescued hostages who said
Speaker 5: they felt like nobody knew where they were and there
Speaker 5: was indiscriminate bombing around them. They didn't have confidence that
Speaker 5: they were being protected or safe, and they felt lucky. Basically,
Speaker 5: that's the that's the implication there is that we're lucky
Speaker 5: that we didn't die. Right from our like, I don't
Speaker 5: want to call it friendly fire because it's not exactly
Speaker 5: the same, but from bombing in Gaza.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and what do we have to see two here?
Speaker 2: This put up this next element?
Speaker 6: So yeah, this is Channel fourteen is like Israel's Newsmax. Basically,
Speaker 6: the Army's launched a large calm already several areas at
Speaker 6: the same time. In Channel fourteen, one of the one
Speaker 6: of the correspondents there, uh said, said something like.
Speaker 2: Everyone survivor you're all going to die. If if you ever,
Speaker 2: if you ever.
Speaker 6: Want some blood curdling stuff, Channel fourteen is the is
Speaker 6: the place to go.
Speaker 2: Can put up.
Speaker 6: The put up the third element here in here in
Speaker 6: this block. Ah, yes, there it is terrorists in northern
Speaker 6: West Bank. The gates of hell have opened. Either you
Speaker 6: surrender or you die, which, okay, some interesting trash talking,
Speaker 6: just weird from a journalist. I'm somebody who believes in uh,
Speaker 6: you know, putting some passion into your journalism, and it's
Speaker 6: okay to have a point of view. Just just an
Speaker 6: interesting approach, just a little weird. The gates of hell
Speaker 6: have opened. So anyway, Operation Summer Camps, according to Channel
Speaker 6: fourteen in Israel, is the gates of Hell opening on
Speaker 6: the occupied West Bank, which again, to be clear, is
Speaker 6: not Gaza and is not controlled by hamas you.
Speaker 5: Know in the Operation Summer Camp. With that juxtaposition to
Speaker 5: the communication that it's just yeah, it's very i mean,
Speaker 5: not surprising, but bizarre.
Speaker 2: Nonetheless, I'm putting a fourth element here.
Speaker 5: This is the Biden approving humanitary to Gazaviya the floating peer,
Speaker 5: despite warnings from the US government that rough waves could
Speaker 5: post significant challenges and objections. This is from Yashar Alie saying,
Speaker 5: an IG report revealed that Biden himself approved this plan.
Speaker 6: Right right, which we would assume there's no way that
Speaker 6: this gets done without Biden, but it's this This IG
Speaker 6: report has some interesting details that of people arguing logistically
Speaker 6: quote high waves was what they were calling it.
Speaker 2: You know, we here, we call it high tide.
Speaker 6: You know, they're like, look, it's this isn't going to work,
Speaker 6: Like the idea just logistically is dumb. And he's like,
Speaker 6: now it's fine, let's put hundreds of millions of dollars
Speaker 6: into this. And then separately, the report exposes internal objections
Speaker 6: which which kind of leaked out into the press of
Speaker 6: the time and also were obvious. They were saying there
Speaker 6: were people inside the State Department were saying this gives
Speaker 6: Israel and out on actually letting humanitarian aid through the
Speaker 6: ports of entry that already exists. Like and if you
Speaker 6: remember from the our reporting on this at the time,
Speaker 6: like this is weird, Like you're acting like there's some
Speaker 6: natural disaster around the rest of Gaza's where it's where
Speaker 6: you're unable to just put food and humanitarian aid into
Speaker 6: trucks and drive it in and distribute it to people.
Speaker 6: Like somehow that has become an impossibility that what you
Speaker 6: need to do is build this you know, five hundred
Speaker 6: million dollar pee peer and bring it in from Cyprus.
Speaker 6: But then as soon as they started loading supplies into Cyprus,
Speaker 6: the IDF was just crawling around Cyprus and doing the
Speaker 6: exact same thing with their you know, their pencil and
Speaker 6: their clipboard.
Speaker 2: What number do you have on this truck here? You
Speaker 2: know that number doesn't match what I have? Sorry, back
Speaker 2: of the line, Well, we talked about like if you
Speaker 2: don't solve the problem, what is one extra port that
Speaker 2: doesn't even work going to do.
Speaker 5: We talked to someone a couple of months ago, I
Speaker 5: think was in Cyprus at the time that we had
Speaker 5: that conversation with you right about how trucks were being
Speaker 5: and that's you know, the United States wanted Israel to
Speaker 5: accept more trucks and as a huge backer in frounder
Speaker 5: of the war. If your ally, the the who's prosecuting
Speaker 5: this war won't comply with that, you then spend how
Speaker 5: of much money? I mean, what's the total on this
Speaker 5: peer to get around it because they won't let trucks through.
Speaker 6: The only extent to which this worked at all is
Speaker 6: that because of this peer, that's when you had the
Speaker 6: World's Central Kitchen convoy attacked by the IDF and killed.
Speaker 6: And because they attacked the World's Central Kitchen because people
Speaker 6: in Washington, d c. Know Jose Andres that embarrassed by
Speaker 6: the enough that he made a phone call to BB
Speaker 6: and said, come on, this is embarrassing. You're killing me
Speaker 6: here by killing all of these people. And then all
Speaker 6: of a sudden, for a couple of weeks, more trucks
Speaker 6: started getting in, proving the case that it was actually
Speaker 6: Israeli policy. Was really kept saying because if if it wasn't,
Speaker 6: then why could you know, b betweak it? And all
Speaker 6: of a sudden more trucks are getting and that obviously
Speaker 6: didn't last long. And the long term effect of killing
Speaker 6: the world central kitchen humanitarian aid workers was that there
Speaker 6: were many fewer humanitarian aid workers willing to for good reason,
Speaker 6: you know, go out onto the distribution runs, which then
Speaker 6: led Israel to say, well, it's the United Nations and
Speaker 6: UNRA that that can't distribute the aid. It's really not
Speaker 6: our fault, it's their fault. Knowing the fact that they
Speaker 6: had killed, you know, more than one hundred of family
Speaker 6: and workers of UNRA and and had led a global
Speaker 6: campaign to defund them.
Speaker 5: There's some truth that there there's some truth to the
Speaker 5: claims about from the Israeli perspective that but we've talked
Speaker 5: about this before. When it's that embedded in such a
Speaker 5: tiny and concentrated population, that's sort of inevitable. And a
Speaker 5: big picture thought on this is it's the post World
Speaker 5: War two. These are all of the tangled, bizarre conversations
Speaker 5: that we have, and now we have international pressure that
Speaker 5: you feed civilians of your enemies, which is in the
Speaker 5: like sort of aggregate a good thing and unusual in
Speaker 5: like all of human history. But if you say that
Speaker 5: you're doing it. You got to do it if you
Speaker 5: agree to the terms, and if you want to, you know,
Speaker 5: throw international law around like Biden does when it comes
Speaker 5: to Russia and then flout it or fail to pressure
Speaker 5: people into complying with it when you're supplying arms, et cetera.
Speaker 5: It's obviously incredibly problematic. Let's put CEE five up on
Speaker 5: the screen. This is a video of the hostage rescue. Yes,
Speaker 5: and that's a actually a Muslim citizen of Israel, fifty
Speaker 5: two year old man was rescued. You can see the
Speaker 5: body cam footage from the IDF on the screen here.
Speaker 5: Like Grian said, pretty lucky situation, but also worth mentioning
Speaker 5: that this well worth mentioning that this has reapped calls
Speaker 5: from the family members of other hostages who have not
Speaker 5: been rescued, of which there are I think roughly an
Speaker 5: estimate of like alive seventy something like a sixty seventy
Speaker 5: right now. Those families are calling for ceasefire. So it
Speaker 5: has put that in a spotlight once again in headlines
Speaker 5: that you have the family members, the loved ones of
Speaker 5: people who are still being held hostage re upping their
Speaker 5: demands for ceasefire. Because this was the fourth successful recovery,
Speaker 5: I think the fourth successful recovery by the IDF of hostages.
Speaker 5: But there are a lot of people who have been
Speaker 5: over there since October seventh. Then their families want to
Speaker 5: ceasefire and they want them back, and that domestically complicates
Speaker 5: the politics for Netanyahu as well.
Speaker 2: Right, it's Wednesday.
Speaker 6: You could have all of the hostages, or enormous number
Speaker 6: of the hostages out by the end of this week
Speaker 6: if they would just agree to the deal that Israel
Speaker 6: already put forward. That's what's so wild about these these
Speaker 6: ongoing negotiations that Israel put forward a deal.
Speaker 2: Biden made that deal public. Hamas said, this works for us,
Speaker 2: Let's implement this framework. Let's do it. And ya, who's
Speaker 2: come back with Actually, we want to checkpoint in the
Speaker 2: it's a rem court or we want.
Speaker 6: To control the access and through rafa et cetera. And
Speaker 6: so we're back to a place where they're deadlocked again.
Speaker 5: And yeah, okay, So that's important context to all of
Speaker 5: this too. That's where we are right now with the
Speaker 5: potential cease fire deal, which was the Biden camp was
Speaker 5: saying was more and more likely as we went through
Speaker 5: the Democratic Convention, week, which I thought was very interesting timing.
Speaker 5: And now after dance Week is over, you know, maybe
Speaker 5: these things are not. But my theory at the time
Speaker 5: was those public relations for the Biden campaign to say like, hey,
Speaker 5: this is going really really well, We're doing a great job,
Speaker 5: We're almost there. And you know, when the week turned
Speaker 5: to the next week, came pretty clear that's not what
Speaker 5: was happening.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 6: And meanwhile, it's been interesting to see kind of Israeli
Speaker 6: society first first mourning a lot of the children that
Speaker 6: were killed who were kind of Syrian Arab children and
Speaker 6: occupied occupied Syria or you know, calling them Israelis, and
Speaker 6: then saying they're going to attack Hesbola over that when
Speaker 6: the relationship between those populations and the Israeli government is
Speaker 6: mostly adversarial otherwise. And then if people want to look
Speaker 6: up how kind of the bed Ones are treated in
Speaker 6: settlements that are refused to be recognized legally by the
Speaker 6: Israeli government.
Speaker 2: Uh that that's.
Speaker 6: That's just an interesting juxtaposition here watching this unfold, and
Speaker 6: as as we think about.
Speaker 2: The the the.
Speaker 6: Mass roundup that must be going on as we speak
Speaker 6: in in the West Bank, it's worth noting this final
Speaker 6: element here. Human Rights just absolutely horrifying Human Rights Watch
Speaker 6: report that has come out that is confirming a lot
Speaker 6: of of what bets lem and and and other another
Speaker 6: reporting has already shown us about the the absolute I
Speaker 6: don't want to say collapse of the Israeli detention system
Speaker 6: because that suggests that it's something that was done accidentally.
Speaker 2: Uh the uh Smotrich.
Speaker 6: And our national security advisor Ben Gavir has said like
Speaker 6: forget him, yeah, that he has said that he wants
Speaker 6: conditions in these detention centers to be as horrifying as
Speaker 6: you could possibly imagine.
Speaker 2: And then some. And the Human Rights Watch report.
Speaker 6: Takes all the caricatures that you've understood about torture throughout
Speaker 6: the worst movies you can think of, and and ratchets
Speaker 6: them up to eleven people you know, you know, held
Speaker 6: naked up, upside down, you know, being you know, tortured
Speaker 6: with electrocution, sexual assault, rape. Well, one of I don't
Speaker 6: know if you noticed this, one of the accused rapists
Speaker 6: from the from that prison facility is now going regularly
Speaker 6: going on like Israeli game shows and being kind of
Speaker 6: fetted and celebrated as a way to say, like, look,
Speaker 6: we defend this we support this, so check out check
Speaker 6: that Human Rights Watch report out.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, we'll continue to follow the story. Of course,
Speaker 5: fairly big news from Mark Zuckerberg, of all people, who
Speaker 5: actually wrote in a letter to the House Judiciary Committee
Speaker 5: this week that he regrets two different censorship moves that
Speaker 5: Meta took back in around twenty twenty, roughly pandemic era
Speaker 5: one was surrounding the Biden Whitehouses, not secret at all.
Speaker 5: In fact, Jen Zaki at the time was public about
Speaker 5: this in a sort of braggadocious way, demands for social
Speaker 5: media companies, including Meta, to censor what they deemed at
Speaker 5: the time to be COVID disinformation. We can put D
Speaker 5: one D one up on the screen. And also the
Speaker 5: Hunter Biden laptop story, which Zuckerberg will get to this
Speaker 5: in just one moment. Memorably told Joe Rogan the FBI
Speaker 5: approached Meta in the weeks before the twenty twenty election
Speaker 5: informing Meta to be on high alert for Russian disinformation
Speaker 5: twenty twenty one. Biden administration attempts to censor COVID content
Speaker 5: twenty twenty. The Biden campaign and the FBI had pressured
Speaker 5: them to censor.
Speaker 2: Well, he didn't say Biden campaign.
Speaker 5: Right, No, no, no, he doesn't. But we know that the
Speaker 5: Biden campaign was telling.
Speaker 2: People not to run this st liberally. I mean they
Speaker 2: were doing it publicly, basically one hundred percent.
Speaker 5: And now what's also very interesting is Zuckerberg responded in
Speaker 5: this letter to Jim Jordan the House Judiciary Committee, where
Speaker 5: he did, of course copy ranking member Jerry Nadler, and
Speaker 5: said that the roughly four hundred million dollars that he
Speaker 5: had put into boosting quote, electoral infrastructure. You can see
Speaker 5: this quote on the screen in front of you if
Speaker 5: you're watching, he will not be making similar contributions this cycle.
Speaker 5: That money was huge, and by the admission of a
Speaker 5: Molly Ball story in Time magazine, everybody remembers she described
Speaker 5: efforts spearheaded by the Chan Zuckerberg initiative, that's Mark Zuckerberg
Speaker 5: and his wife Priscilla Chan's four hundred million dollar contribution,
Speaker 5: as that well funded cabal. That is the word of
Speaker 5: the Time. This is the language of the Time magazine story,
Speaker 5: And there were annale, there were analyzes that came out
Speaker 5: afterwards saying it disproportionately boosted election infrastructure in democratic area. Zuckerberg,
Speaker 5: in this letter to Jim Jordan said he doesn't agree
Speaker 5: with those analyzes, but he won't be contributing. Nonetheless, in
Speaker 5: the context of all of the concerns about what happened,
Speaker 5: that is a response, I think, probably most prominently to
Speaker 5: my former boss Molly Hemingway, who wrote a book basically
Speaker 5: about what happened after Zuckerberg made those contributions, called rigged.
Speaker 5: And I don't know, I haven't seen Zuckerberg directly address
Speaker 5: it in a way like this before, so he just
Speaker 5: kind of seemed to be throwing a bone to the
Speaker 5: right in this letter in huge, huge ways. Now I
Speaker 5: think I agree with everything that he says here in
Speaker 5: terms of like directionally, I think this is all good.
Speaker 5: But he also called Trump badass recently. Remember that.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm well, he was saying then getting shot in
Speaker 6: the ear and then standing up and pumping your fists
Speaker 6: was badass, which objectively is true.
Speaker 5: Yeah, no, it absolutely is, but like it's he's an enemy.
Speaker 5: He's long been considered an enemy of Trump, so it
Speaker 5: was sort.
Speaker 2: Of which I don't know exactly why.
Speaker 5: And people think that Facebook actually boosted Yeah, absolutely, and
Speaker 5: I think there's probably an argument to be made for that.
Speaker 5: But he I mean he's been at least.
Speaker 2: He lives in or he lived in Berkeley or whatever,
Speaker 2: superficial liberal and never never listened to what this guy said.
Speaker 6: Not so sure that's the case. The reason I don't
Speaker 6: buy buy into as much of that. So on the
Speaker 6: on the Wisconsin Zuckerberg, you know money that went into
Speaker 6: you know, boosting the mail in ballots. I think I
Speaker 6: think it's probably true that the that the analysis correct,
Speaker 6: that the money ended up helping Democrats. But I think
Speaker 6: the reason that Zuckerberg doesn't necessarily deserve blame for that
Speaker 6: is that the reason it helped Democrats is that Trump
Speaker 6: and Republicans made the absolutely inscrutable decision in real time
Speaker 6: to urge all of their voters not to vote by mail.
Speaker 6: And therefore, like if you any money you invest into
Speaker 6: encouraging people to vote by mail is going to benefit
Speaker 6: the party that is taking advantage of it. Trump, I
Speaker 6: think recognizes that that was a fundamental mistake, and you
Speaker 6: see him now saying, you know, we're going to get
Speaker 6: rid of mail in voting, you know, when I'm president,
Speaker 6: but we haven't yet. So everybody needs to vote whatever
Speaker 6: way that you should vote. He's gone as that rhetoric
Speaker 6: of don't do mail in voting, because it also leaves
Speaker 6: you vulnerable to chance, like in Nevada where Democrats all
Speaker 6: voted early, and then in northern Nevada on election day
Speaker 6: you had a giant snowstorm. Yeah, we're like, eh, I'm
Speaker 6: not going that's been in my truck off the side
Speaker 6: of the road for Trump.
Speaker 2: Yep. Right.
Speaker 5: So here's a flashback to how Zuckerberg talked about the
Speaker 5: lead up to the Hunter Biden laptop controversy with The
Speaker 5: New York Post. This is two years ago. On Joe
Speaker 5: Rogan's show, Zuckerberg kind of opened up about this with
Speaker 5: some I mean, if we take him at his word,
Speaker 5: and he seems to be a genuine in this quote,
Speaker 5: because it's like he's reflecting on how he didn't know
Speaker 5: what he was getting into. And I'm doing a segment
Speaker 5: on my show Undercurrents tomorrow on this because I found
Speaker 5: it so interesting that Zuckerberg in his letter cited kind
Speaker 5: of his own declining institutional trust. He says, at the time,
Speaker 5: I trusted the FBI. This is what he gets into
Speaker 5: with Joe Rogan. He's like, I trusted law enforcement that
Speaker 5: they had, you know, best interests of the country, and
Speaker 5: we thought this was the right thing to do. So
Speaker 5: let's take a listen to Zuckerberg on Rogan.
Speaker 11: It's like, Okay, if someone has has spent a bunch
Speaker 11: of time, you know, searching for puppies, you know they
Speaker 11: like puppies, so if you show them a puppy video,
Speaker 11: they'll probably engage with that. But if you only show
Speaker 11: them puppy videos over the long term, you're missing an
Speaker 11: opportunity to understand what other things that they're interested in. So,
Speaker 11: even though it might not be kind of ideal for
Speaker 11: the experience today, carving off five percent ten percent of
Speaker 11: basically the experience to just try to expose people to
Speaker 11: different things to see if they if they're interested in
Speaker 11: that too, ends up paying long term dividends. So I
Speaker 11: do think that like these systems done well, if you
Speaker 11: design them with a long term perspective and you're not
Speaker 11: just trying to kind of maximize engagement today, but you're
Speaker 11: really trying to understand what people care about and who
Speaker 11: people want to become and what their values are. I
Speaker 11: think you can you can build some stuff that gets it,
Speaker 11: that gets really good over time. But I do think
Speaker 11: that the design of the system and the values that
Speaker 11: go into it matters quite a bit too.
Speaker 5: So that was actually him talking about the way that
Speaker 5: Facebook and social media should be designed healthily. But in
Speaker 5: that Joe Rogan appearance, he also talked about how the
Speaker 5: FBI approached him. Trusted the FBI, and it wasn't that
Speaker 5: they told him you must suppress the Hunter Biden story.
Speaker 5: He said that there was a lot of daylight between
Speaker 5: what Meta did and what Twitter did. At the time,
Speaker 5: he was sort of criticizing Jack Dorsey for brottling the
Speaker 5: New York Post link. I don't know if you remember this.
Speaker 5: I remember going to DMS to.
Speaker 2: Took the New York Post accountdown.
Speaker 5: You could, so if this is genuinely the most orwellian
Speaker 5: thing I've ever experienced in this country. When you went
Speaker 5: to send the link you copy paste the link into
Speaker 5: a direct message, it would say, can't do it. I'm
Speaker 5: just saying this, this won't work. Same thing. Yeah, it
Speaker 5: was the same thing when you tried to post it.
Speaker 5: So that in and of itself was pretty interesting. But
Speaker 5: it's I think one of the big takeaways here. Jack
Speaker 5: Dorsey has also said that the reporting and the Twitter
Speaker 5: files showed that Twitter was mismanaged under his leadership, He's
Speaker 5: agreed with a lot of the criticisms and the Twitter files. Basically,
Speaker 5: he's supported Elon Musk. Jack Dorsey said it was a
Speaker 5: mistake to throttle the link, and now it's like all
Speaker 5: of these regrets to look back, and I'm like, listen,
Speaker 5: a lot of people in the wrinner like this is
Speaker 5: too little, too late. I'm like, this is good. I'm
Speaker 5: so like the only the top line for me is
Speaker 5: that this is good. But our allergy to government censorship
Speaker 5: is kicking back in. I think that's a good thing
Speaker 5: that the antibodies and the American system say. I don't
Speaker 5: care if I you know, Mark Zuckerberry is not like
Speaker 5: a Trump supporter, no matter if he's a sort of
Speaker 5: Silicon Valley Nietzsche and Oligark, He's not a Trump supporter.
Speaker 5: And Jack Dorsey is certainly not a Trump supporter, even
Speaker 5: though he's been supportive of Elon Musk. But so these
Speaker 5: people saying your government should not be telling us what
Speaker 5: information can be disseminated, generally, that's a good thing. That's
Speaker 5: a good thing. Apple ended up letting Parlor back on
Speaker 5: the app store, So you know, dust settled, and I
Speaker 5: feel like we actually came out on top.
Speaker 6: And hearing him talk about the Facebook algorithm is interesting
Speaker 6: from the perspective of what if you actually just showed
Speaker 6: people's stuff from the people you follow, your friends and family,
Speaker 6: and you showed your stuff to the people.
Speaker 2: Who follow you. What about that? Can you imagine? So wild?
Speaker 6: Why did they make everybody jump through all these hoops
Speaker 6: of friending people and listing the thing and actually listing
Speaker 6: the things that they like and subscribing to things that
Speaker 6: they like, and then they wrote an algorithm that says, actually,
Speaker 6: none of what you have told us is going to
Speaker 6: be factored in in any significant way into our algorithm.
Speaker 2: Instead, we're going.
Speaker 6: To just feed you stuff and see like a rat,
Speaker 6: which makes you click the fastest, going to your basest
Speaker 6: human instincts the boom, rather than the things that you
Speaker 6: consciously from your better self, Like, no, I want to
Speaker 6: keep up with what my aunt's up to, even if
Speaker 6: like I don't agree every single time, but I'm curious,
Speaker 6: Like what what's she up to? What's my cousin up to?
Speaker 6: They're like, no, you don't actually care about that. What
Speaker 6: you really care about is, you know, seeing a seeing
Speaker 6: like a random fist fight, in Milwaukee.
Speaker 9: So we're going to give you that Why Milwaukee, I
Speaker 9: don't know, why not Philly, Milwaukee suburbs, Hilly or yeah
Speaker 9: you want to see like Eastern Uh yeah, well I
Speaker 9: never see anything from there.
Speaker 5: That's right, because even if you care about it, they
Speaker 5: know that they can. They're more likely to get you
Speaker 5: to spend more.
Speaker 2: Time with somebody like jumping off a cliff or something. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's what is it?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 2: Why you like, I'm so old.
Speaker 5: Actually do something real? But it's a pretty like just
Speaker 5: the all of this was written in a letter to
Speaker 5: Jim Jordan. These major concessions. Interesting. So let's move over
Speaker 5: to France, where this isn't getting a ton of pickup
Speaker 5: in the American press, but an incredible And maybe it's
Speaker 5: because the American press isn't as attuned to the like
Speaker 5: actual left. I don't know, because if you're on the
Speaker 5: actual left, the story is incredibly disturbing and validating as
Speaker 5: to sort of the mushing neoliberal middle and their true
Speaker 5: their true allegiance to what do they say, lowercase de
Speaker 5: democracy and all of those things. Ryan, what on earth?
Speaker 5: We can go ahead and put this tear steet up
Speaker 5: on the screen, This is from BBC ch Left backs
Speaker 5: protests after Macrone rejects prime minister choice. What is going
Speaker 5: on behind that headline?
Speaker 2: So this is wild.
Speaker 6: So let's explain to people how this fifth republic, this
Speaker 6: fifth French Republic works.
Speaker 2: So bab, They've got a president and a prime minister.
Speaker 6: The president is the kind of good looking guy you
Speaker 6: put out on the national international stage. Handles foreign policy,
Speaker 6: doesn't matter, if he's short, does not matter. The prime
Speaker 6: minister handles domestic affairs. Traditionally, they've always been from the
Speaker 6: same coalition, the same party, basically because that's just how
Speaker 6: it has worked out. They may have stumbled on a
Speaker 6: fatal flaw in their fifth Republican constitution. So in the
Speaker 6: last election results, the far left finished first, the far
Speaker 6: right finished second, and then McCrone and his center right
Speaker 6: party finished third, and I guess you got some little
Speaker 6: other part and then a bunch of like dregs, you know,
Speaker 6: finishing after that. So you would think, okay, fair enough,
Speaker 6: the far left gets to form a government and we
Speaker 6: go from there. Macron and the far right like, no,
Speaker 6: we actually don't want to see that happen, and they
Speaker 6: have the power to stop it because the far left
Speaker 6: did not win an absolute majority, and they don't have
Speaker 6: anybody forming one with them. So even so, if Macrone
Speaker 6: did appoint somebody from the far left to form a government,
Speaker 6: the right and the center right and the rest of
Speaker 6: the dregs would immediately hold a no confidence vote and
Speaker 6: oust the government. So he could do that, and in
Speaker 6: Spain the king did that. They had like an eighteen
Speaker 6: month stand off that was very similar to this one,
Speaker 6: and the king was like, okay, fine, you know what
Speaker 6: the right wing in this case was the right wing,
Speaker 6: the right wing one more votes but doesn't have a majority,
Speaker 6: so fine, go ahead form a government and like backed
Speaker 6: off and let them try. Then they failed, and then
Speaker 6: they let the center left former government. So Macron is
Speaker 6: not even allowing that. And so what the left said, Okay, fine,
Speaker 6: you don't like us, you don't like our policies. And
Speaker 6: Macron has been very very clear it's we don't like
Speaker 6: I don't agree with your policies, your politics, like we
Speaker 6: don't want the left in charge. It's been very clear.
Speaker 6: He's like, I don't care what the voters said. So
Speaker 6: they have said, Okay, here's this thirty four year old,
Speaker 6: unobjectionable woman who will be our prime minister and we
Speaker 6: will take zero cabinet positions. They're like, that's that's their
Speaker 6: concession to the fact that they did not win an
Speaker 6: outright majority. And Macron's like, no, not good enough, not
Speaker 6: going to do that. And as we as we saw
Speaker 6: you put up this next element here he's as he's
Speaker 6: sitting down with the pen and saying, all right, who
Speaker 6: knows what he's talking about with La Penn and these talks.
Speaker 5: And the French left by the I was so concerned
Speaker 5: that La Penn's party would do incredibly well and the
Speaker 5: elections were in July would do so well that they
Speaker 5: that's the bigger context us that they all formed a
Speaker 5: coalition alliance, right, and.
Speaker 6: That's defend off the fascists, right, exactly right. And so
Speaker 6: now Macron is like, well, let's sit down with fascists.
Speaker 6: And so you've got all these bizarre arguments where they're
Speaker 6: saying the left doesn't deserve to govern because some of
Speaker 6: the people who voted for the left weren't actually voting
Speaker 6: for a left wing agenda. They were only voting to
Speaker 6: block La Penn. So okay, a that's true. B Like
Speaker 6: psychoanalyzing why somebody voted for somebody as ridiculous idea, they
Speaker 6: voted for them. See, that's the only reason anybody has
Speaker 6: ever voted for Macron. So by Macrone's own reasoning, there,
Speaker 6: Macron is thoroughly illegitimate.
Speaker 2: Nobody has voted for Macrone.
Speaker 6: In every every time he has won, he has won
Speaker 6: because he's not La penn and and so and so
Speaker 6: here he is so now.
Speaker 2: The way, So I talked to Art gold Hammer, who
Speaker 2: we've had on the show before, who's a French. He
Speaker 2: lives in France. For American and lives in France.
Speaker 6: He translated picketty he uh translated Tokeville is like he's great,
Speaker 6: he's and he's like, I have no idea where this ends.
Speaker 6: Usually he's like, here's where this goes from here, and
Speaker 6: he's like it has the feel of the beginnings of
Speaker 6: an extremely bitter divorce.
Speaker 2: Like every like there's.
Speaker 6: Absolutely no good faith among any of the parties. And
Speaker 6: he's like it might be a fatal flaw that's in
Speaker 6: the in the constitution.
Speaker 2: Because there there.
Speaker 6: Actually is no way out of so and to make
Speaker 6: people understand why this is happening now in this new
Speaker 6: era where we have kind of far left and far
Speaker 6: right both rising for the entire history of the French
Speaker 6: Republican and this goes for other countries too. The dominant
Speaker 6: parties or the center left and the center right, and
Speaker 6: so I let's say this. Let's say Macrone's center right
Speaker 6: party wins the most votes, the center left wins the second,
Speaker 6: and then the far left and far right are off
Speaker 6: in the background somewhere. The center right would then grab
Speaker 6: a couple of little tiny parties from the far right
Speaker 6: and they'd form a government. Center right wouldn't complain because
Speaker 6: they didn't win the election and they get to be
Speaker 6: part of this governing coalition.
Speaker 2: And in general, the voters.
Speaker 6: Wouldn't complain because they'd say, okay, this is fair enough,
Speaker 6: Like a majority of people voted either for a center
Speaker 6: right or a far right government. Now, when the dominant
Speaker 6: polls are the far left and the far right, it's
Speaker 6: not clear who the far left forms its coalition with,
Speaker 6: because okay, let's see say the far left forms its
Speaker 6: coalition with the center left. Who then is the prime minister. Well,
Speaker 6: it would only be fair. It's just from the far
Speaker 6: left because they won the most votes. But at the
Speaker 6: same time, a majority of voters voted against.
Speaker 2: The far left.
Speaker 6: You know, let's say fifty five sixty percent wanted center
Speaker 6: left over all the way to the right. So the
Speaker 6: center left party says no, Actually, if you want to
Speaker 6: represent the median voter, it should be us. But there
Speaker 6: is no median voter anymore because you're using this old
Speaker 6: spectrum rather than understanding than that. Actually you've got different
Speaker 6: wings of populism that are the overwhelming majority against the
Speaker 6: kind of fading neoliberal elites, and so the old frame
Speaker 6: just doesn't work for the new politics.
Speaker 5: It's so interesting you say that, because I was just
Speaker 5: going to bring up this. I'm reading from this article
Speaker 5: kir Starmer doesn't understand populism because Kirre Starmer gave a
Speaker 5: speech this week that was described as quote gloomy by
Speaker 5: a lot of the press, and the author of this
Speaker 5: article makes a really, really good point that actually really
Speaker 5: the failure when Starmer was talking about quote the snake
Speaker 5: oil of populism in his speech, he's pinning all of
Speaker 5: those riots, the Southport riots that we talked about a
Speaker 5: couple of weeks ago, on quote fourteen years of Tory failure,
Speaker 5: just pinning the blame on the Tories and this writer says,
Speaker 5: the public has a sense that the roots of our
Speaker 5: national woes go much deeper, more than forty years of
Speaker 5: a broken economic and social settlement, which we owe to
Speaker 5: Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair, as well as their Eric
Speaker 5: Gordon Brown, David Cameron, and Richie Sunek. The mantra there
Speaker 5: is no alternative has produced decades of rampant economic and
Speaker 5: social individualism dressed up as progress, when in reality we've
Speaker 5: gained into liberal freedoms yet lost stability and common solidarity.
Speaker 5: This is connected to what we talked about in the
Speaker 5: first block of the show today about people like RFK
Speaker 5: Junior and Telsey gab founding common cause with Donald Trump
Speaker 5: because he's somewhat heterodox in the Republican Party on particular issues.
Speaker 5: You know how he uses government, et cetera. But still
Speaker 5: not even that being the perfect marriage. Our categories don't
Speaker 5: work anymore. They only kind of superficially ever did for
Speaker 5: the average voter, and everybody right now is just spinning
Speaker 5: their wheels and reeling to try and figure out the solution.
Speaker 5: But people like Kires Starmer and Emmanuel Macron and arguably
Speaker 5: Kamala Harris and maybe even to some extent, you could
Speaker 5: say Donald Trump, they have no real idea how to
Speaker 5: address this. And James Pogue wrote that story about Chris
Speaker 5: Murphy for The New York Times. I don't know if
Speaker 5: you read about how Chris Murphy is genuinely trying to
Speaker 5: figure out what Democrats can do to address some of
Speaker 5: the concerns that the New Right is tapping into. He's
Speaker 5: like the only person in the Democratic Party other than
Speaker 5: Roe who's like Rocano, well, he should talk to you.
Speaker 5: It was like actually seriously engaged in that project. You
Speaker 5: see basically none of that from the starmer Macron Harris
Speaker 5: is of the world right.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's right.
Speaker 6: And so the we can put up this third element
Speaker 6: here from this McCrone ally.
Speaker 2: Bayru or this is a great, great follow.
Speaker 6: I don't have my glasses on, so I can't tell
Speaker 6: exactly what has ad is, what he's arnold, but Tron
Speaker 6: he's he's great on so much stuff.
Speaker 5: What is he He's fantastic? It's are not bertrand so
Speaker 5: r n A U D b E R t R
Speaker 5: A n D.
Speaker 6: And so he's talking here about how this macrone advisor
Speaker 6: is just very explicitly saying that it's the left program
Speaker 6: that mcrone objects to, and that they that they as
Speaker 6: the establishment elite, object to, and that they're going to
Speaker 6: cling to power against against this, come hell or high water.
Speaker 6: The fact that this is happening at the exact same
Speaker 6: time as they arrested the Telegram found the Telegram founder
Speaker 6: in Paris, I don't think is. I think it might
Speaker 6: it's it might be a coincidence in the fact that
Speaker 6: they're lining the events are lining up at the same time.
Speaker 6: But it's similar to the trends are similar. The establishmental
Speaker 6: lead is going to need censorship and authoritarianism to kind
Speaker 6: of lock down this, this this bubbling rise of populism.
Speaker 6: And so what Bayrou was arguing there is he's stating
Speaker 6: a fact, which is that the left did not win
Speaker 6: an outright majority. So but then he goes on, therefore
Speaker 6: they should not be able to govern. It's like, but
Speaker 6: whenever the center left or the center right one forty
Speaker 6: five percent of the vote, they were not told and
Speaker 6: we're the leading vote getter by far, they were not told, oh,
Speaker 6: you only want forty five percent, you don't get to govern.
Speaker 6: If it's the center left, the left wing parties would
Speaker 6: join with them, and they'd form a coalition. If it's
Speaker 6: center right, the right wing parties would join with them
Speaker 6: form a coalition. But the center is just is unwilling
Speaker 6: to do that for either Paul right right and.
Speaker 5: So center left and center right too, whether it's Mitch
Speaker 5: McConnell or Truck Shoomer.
Speaker 6: Right and so, although in our system they seem a
Speaker 6: little bit more willing to do that, and also that
Speaker 6: our centers are holding better. Yeah, then well, maybe are
Speaker 6: the center and the Democratic parties holding better than the
Speaker 6: one in the Republican Party?
Speaker 5: Yeah? No, I mean that's the question, is how much
Speaker 5: longer does that last? I posed that question actually to
Speaker 5: Rick MacArthur, who's the president of Harper's and publisher of Harper's,
Speaker 5: because he wrote a story for Spectator World about how
Speaker 5: Democratic elites have been able to control the party so
Speaker 5: well over the of course of the last several decades,
Speaker 5: and the Sun undercomits two where he's and he there
Speaker 5: is such a difference between how Republicans totally lost control
Speaker 5: when Donald Trump came along and Democrats fought Bernie Sanders
Speaker 5: tooth and nail in twenty sixteen were able to use
Speaker 5: them the muscle of the DNC to shut down the
Speaker 5: Sanders campaign or to hamper the Sanders campaign did it
Speaker 5: again in twenty twenty by getting Peep Bida Judge and
Speaker 5: Amy Klobachr to come together, and the Republicans had basically
Speaker 5: no ability to do anything about Donald Trump, whereas Demok's
Speaker 5: actually like like the DNC figured out how to muscle
Speaker 5: him out of the picture and to get rid of
Speaker 5: people like Marianne and TULSI just basically shut those campaigns down,
Speaker 5: and I mean not shut them down, but hamper their
Speaker 5: ability to be serious contenders.
Speaker 6: It's a good segue into our next segment, which is
Speaker 6: an interview with Independent Senate candidate Dan Osborne.
Speaker 2: We don't know if this will be the independent that.
Speaker 6: Breaks through and becomes an actual senator, but I do
Speaker 6: think it's going to happen, like over the next several cycles, somebody,
Speaker 6: somebody's going to break through and do it. I mean,
Speaker 6: obviously Bernie Sanders already did it winning as an independent
Speaker 6: in Vermont in two thousand and six, but nobody else
Speaker 6: has been able to do it since then. Well like
Speaker 6: right now, I'm not thinking of anybody who is like
Speaker 6: a fake version of that. So anyway, up next Independent
Speaker 6: Senate candidate Dan Osborne, who is pulling neck and neck
Speaker 6: with the Republican in Nebraska on a class first message.
Speaker 6: Joining us now is Nebraska Independent Senate candidate Dan Osborne.
Speaker 2: Dan, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having me on.
Speaker 6: And so we're having you on at kind of an
Speaker 6: interesting time in your race now. Not only has your
Speaker 6: Republican opponent deb Fisher just been officially nominated to be
Speaker 6: your only opponent, and I believe it's correct that there's
Speaker 6: no Democrat running in the race, but you know, you
Speaker 6: really got kind of rocketed to Nebraska stardom as the
Speaker 6: leader of this strike and the leader of the Kellogg's strike,
Speaker 6: very successful strike three years ago. Seeing that Kellogg's is
Speaker 6: now claiming it's closing its planned so can you can
Speaker 6: you back up for people who aren't familiar with the
Speaker 6: with the Kellogg's story at all, tell us about your
Speaker 6: eighteen year career there that led up to the strike
Speaker 6: and what the strike was over and where we are now.
Speaker 13: Yeah, not that I'm really ever into correcting people, but
Speaker 13: it was twenty years I.
Speaker 2: Spent there twenty years. Sorry, Yeah, no, no worries, those
Speaker 2: details matter.
Speaker 13: Sometimes this one not necessarily, but yeah, I was a
Speaker 13: mechanic there for twenty years. Really, my origin story with
Speaker 13: the union begins at COVID. You know, we all have
Speaker 13: our COVID stories, most of them not good.
Speaker 4: But I was union president during COVID. We were working, and.
Speaker 13: It's noteworthy to say that there's four North American plants
Speaker 13: under the umbrella of the master contract and we were
Speaker 13: all working seven days a week, twelve hours a day
Speaker 13: as essential workers.
Speaker 4: During that time. Gellog's made record profits that year.
Speaker 13: They went from well, it's noteworthy to say also we
Speaker 13: kept all plants going hundred percent capacity, so they made
Speaker 13: record profits. They went from nineteen billion to twenty one
Speaker 13: billion dollars. The CEO gave themselves a two million dollar raise,
Speaker 13: the board enriched themselves, the stockholders enriched themselves. In our
Speaker 13: contract expired that year. We figured it was going to
Speaker 13: be a no brainer. We were going to get our
Speaker 13: little slice of the pie. But instead Kellogg sat across
Speaker 13: the table from us on the first day they said,
Speaker 13: we're going to go out to your health insurance. We're
Speaker 13: going to go out to your cost of living wage adjustment,
Speaker 13: which was our only form of wages designed to keep
Speaker 13: us even with inflation.
Speaker 4: You know how that went.
Speaker 13: And we're going to implement a two tier wage system
Speaker 13: with no path for a lower tier employee to move
Speaker 13: to the upper tier. So essentially everybody is going to
Speaker 13: be on the lower tier. So for me as president,
Speaker 13: that was my old crap moment. There hasn't been a
Speaker 13: strike in Nebraska since nineteen seventy two.
Speaker 4: I had to learn what that meant.
Speaker 13: But we could not come to an agreement with Kellogg's
Speaker 13: and so we shut down four North American cereal plants
Speaker 13: and we walked off.
Speaker 4: The job preserve our wages and benefits.
Speaker 13: We all felt we were on the right side of
Speaker 13: history on this, and I knew out on the picket
Speaker 13: line Democrats were going to come out and support a
Speaker 13: labor because that's what they do.
Speaker 4: But I was able to get two Republicans.
Speaker 13: One governor well one congress person to come out to
Speaker 13: the picket line and one governor to draft a letter
Speaker 13: on our behalf to send it to the CEO imploring
Speaker 13: him to get our people back to work. But we
Speaker 13: were on strike for seventy seven days and we got
Speaker 13: a favorable contract. But I stood up for the people
Speaker 13: when we felt we were getting wrong. But the Kellogg's
Speaker 13: announced that they're closing the plant Omaha on twenty twenty six,
Speaker 13: and a lot of people online, a lot of keyboard
Speaker 13: cowboys and cowgirls online blaming me in particular, but the
Speaker 13: union for that closing. Well, there's also three other plants
Speaker 13: in the network in North America that are under the
Speaker 13: same master contract that get the same wages and the
Speaker 13: same benefits. But they only announced Almaha. But two years
Speaker 13: is a long time. A lot can happen. I have
Speaker 13: a good feeling that this is not going to occur
Speaker 13: the way they are saying it's going to occur. This
Speaker 13: could even just be a negotiating tactic by Kellogg's to
Speaker 13: try to get the Union to take concessions. We'll see,
Speaker 13: But again, two years is a long time.
Speaker 2: Is any of it political? Do you think? Then they
Speaker 2: announced this closure two years later to try to torpedo you.
Speaker 4: You know, I thought about that, and you know.
Speaker 13: I appreciate the thought that I'm somebody special enough for
Speaker 13: a corporation to announce a plant because of one guy.
Speaker 4: And so no, the answer is absolutely.
Speaker 5: Well, let's put this element up on the screen. These
Speaker 5: are the polls from five point thirty eight. Obviously, it's
Speaker 5: incredibly difficult for an independent candidate to pull as closely
Speaker 5: as you are coming in. This is a u go
Speaker 5: of poll you can see right there at the top
Speaker 5: from five thirty eight, collection of polls, five hundred registered voters,
Speaker 5: and it finds dead Fisher up. By the way, she's
Speaker 5: running for her third term, right, so she's been in
Speaker 5: office since twenty twelve. She's up by two points in
Speaker 5: that UGO poll. I imagine that's within the poll's margin
Speaker 5: of air forty one to forty three percent. You're at
Speaker 5: forty one, she's at forty three, and.
Speaker 6: You've got that deb Fisher pole that has yes just
Speaker 6: absolutely crushing you.
Speaker 5: Yeah, she has a poll out that has her up
Speaker 5: twenty six. But then there was a poll from your
Speaker 5: camp that find you guys tied. And these are all
Speaker 5: since the last thing that we mentioned are since July.
Speaker 5: So the polling is showing a competitive independent candidacy, there's
Speaker 5: no question about it. So my question for you is
Speaker 5: why run as an independent? A lot of people who
Speaker 5: are aligned with labor jumping as Democrats obviously, so I imagine
Speaker 5: some of our viewers outside Nebraska who aren't super familiar
Speaker 5: with this race might say, why be independent here, why
Speaker 5: not just go with a Democratic party. What's your answer
Speaker 5: to that, and how do you sort of describe your
Speaker 5: own politics?
Speaker 13: Yeah, well, I became an independent in twenty sixteen. I
Speaker 13: became disenfranchised with a two party system. I see this
Speaker 13: huge divide that is being created, seemingly both sides catering
Speaker 13: to their extremes and leaving people I feel like me
Speaker 13: out of the middle, Like there's nobody like me in
Speaker 13: the United States Senate, and by that I mean less
Speaker 13: than two percent of our elected officials in both the
Speaker 13: House and Senate come from a working class. I get
Speaker 13: frustrated when I see their corporate agendas. For example, ninety
Speaker 13: percent of deb Fisher's campaign funds come from corporate super PACs.
Speaker 13: But we're being different. I'm not taking any corporate money.
Speaker 13: I don't want to be beholden to corporations elected. I
Speaker 13: don't want to be beholding to a party boss if elected,
Speaker 13: I want to be beholden to the people of Nebraska
Speaker 13: who elected me. Because that's the way the framers of
Speaker 13: the Constitution set this whole thing up right, a government
Speaker 13: for and by the people, it's.
Speaker 4: Not a government for the one percent in corporations.
Speaker 13: And that's where you know, when I do deep dives
Speaker 13: into our government and our politicians, that's my findings.
Speaker 4: So I want to be different and I want to
Speaker 4: I want to bring it back to the people.
Speaker 6: And what what is deb Fisher won by in the past,
Speaker 6: and what does a typical Republican win by statewide in general?
Speaker 13: Yeah, you know, she's never really had any competition either
Speaker 13: in the primary by I think design parties like to
Speaker 13: uh support their incumbents, which I completely understand that. And
Speaker 13: you know here in Nebraska, it's a red state. It's
Speaker 13: very conservative values here, and I believe she wins by
Speaker 13: she wins by large margins.
Speaker 5: Trump went by with about sixty percent of the vote,
Speaker 5: and twenty and find got about forty percent.
Speaker 6: So yeah, so so how do you how do you
Speaker 6: thread how do you thread the cultural conservative conservatism of
Speaker 6: Nebraska versus any any impression that you're like, you know,
Speaker 6: I'm sure they're trying to saddle you with this is
Speaker 6: actually he's actually a liberal right now in independence clothing here.
Speaker 6: So what what messages are you finding are resonating? Where
Speaker 6: do you come down on the kind of general kind
Speaker 6: of social conservative spectrum of questions.
Speaker 13: Sure, and you know dev Fisher is going to paint
Speaker 13: me as a Democrat in chief's clothing, because you know,
Speaker 13: that's probably what I would do if I was heard too. Right,
Speaker 13: I'm running against a Republican. There's no Democrat in the race,
Speaker 13: so it stands to reason she's going to.
Speaker 4: Paint that picture. But I've never been able to put.
Speaker 13: Myself in a tidy, little blue or red box. I've
Speaker 13: always felt like I like things from both parties. But
Speaker 13: what's differentiating me from being a Democrat or being a
Speaker 13: Republican is you know, my core message, and my core
Speaker 13: message is we have to get corporations out of our politics.
Speaker 13: We have to have corporate or excuse me, we have
Speaker 13: to have a campaign finance reform. We have to end
Speaker 13: things like Citizens United. We have to get the corruption
Speaker 13: and the money out of our politics in order for
Speaker 13: it to be this sound entity that is mostly free
Speaker 13: from corruption. Again, we're being different. I'm not taking corporate money.
Speaker 13: My average donations thirty five dollars. We've raised two point
Speaker 13: three million, So this campaign, excuse me, it's truly powered
Speaker 13: by the people. But where I lean towards the right
Speaker 13: would be. You know, we do have to have a
Speaker 13: secure border, and we have to do it yesterday.
Speaker 4: Both parties are to blame. They keep kicking the can
Speaker 4: down the road.
Speaker 13: I mean, we haven't had any meaningful border or immigration
Speaker 13: reform for that matter, in a very long time. And
Speaker 13: also we have thirty four trillion dollars in debt. You
Speaker 13: can place the blame on both parties for that, and
Speaker 13: many administrations adding six seven billion dollars or trillion dollars.
Speaker 4: To the national debt.
Speaker 13: So we have to do things like hold the Department
Speaker 13: of Defense accountable for passing audits.
Speaker 4: Things like that.
Speaker 13: And we have to hold corporations accountable for when they
Speaker 13: start price gouging and grocery stores for jacking prices up
Speaker 13: one thousand percent. These are the things that I think
Speaker 13: we need to do because we're all hurting.
Speaker 4: I'm hurting.
Speaker 13: I'm a steam fitter for a living now. I got
Speaker 13: fired from Kellogg's after the strike. But you know, these
Speaker 13: are the things that are taking money out of our
Speaker 13: wallets at a time where we're all hurting. So that's
Speaker 13: kind of where I set myself apart.
Speaker 5: And Bernie Sanders sort of famously independent from Vermont obviously,
Speaker 5: but caucuses with Democrats or has long caucus with Democrats.
Speaker 5: And some people didn't even know that Bernie Centers was
Speaker 5: actually an independent because he went for execut rand of
Speaker 5: the Democratic presidential primaries, caucused for years with Democrats. So
Speaker 5: do you have plans for how you might approach the
Speaker 5: caucusing question should you be elected to the Senate. Do
Speaker 5: you have plans to caucus with Republicans, with Democrats or
Speaker 5: just not caucus with either party?
Speaker 4: Sure? I do have a plan for that.
Speaker 13: And George Norris was the last independent senator from Nebraska.
Speaker 4: He's from the Cook Nebraska.
Speaker 13: He would he actually set up the non partisan unicameral
Speaker 13: that we enjoy in Nebraska today that I think Washington,
Speaker 13: d c. Could take a few notes from. But his
Speaker 13: last term he did not caucus with anyone. And you know,
Speaker 13: there's nothing in the Constitution or anywhere written that says
Speaker 13: you have to People will tell me, oh, well, you'll
Speaker 13: never get a committee assign I meant, if you don't
Speaker 13: choose to caucus, I would like to challenge I would
Speaker 13: like to challenge the entire system. Deb Fisher early on
Speaker 13: called you know, dismissed us, and she's refusing to debate
Speaker 13: because she says, oh, this is just a political science experiment.
Speaker 13: And I was like, yes, that's exactly what I am
Speaker 13: and what is and you know, guess what else is
Speaker 13: a political science experiment in the United States of America.
Speaker 4: Are a declaration of independence our constitution. That's a political
Speaker 4: science experiment. And I think it's done pretty well.
Speaker 13: But I would like to challenge the system, not caucus
Speaker 13: with anyone, but if I feel like the people because
Speaker 13: I want to deliver for the people in Nebraska at
Speaker 13: the end of the day, and if I feel like
Speaker 13: I'm failing at trying to buck the system, depending on
Speaker 13: who how the House is set up, how the Senate
Speaker 13: set up, who's the president, there's a lot of different scenarios.
Speaker 4: I'm going to have to make a decision on who
Speaker 4: to caucus with.
Speaker 13: And I will caucus with somebody if again, if the
Speaker 13: people in Nebraska are suffering, but it's going to have
Speaker 13: to be a choice to made who I can best
Speaker 13: deliver for Nebraska at that time.
Speaker 6: If there was a bill that came to the Senate
Speaker 6: floor that would codify Roe v. Wade, would you vote
Speaker 6: to support that and how big an issue are abortion
Speaker 6: rights in the Nebraska Senate races fairly conservative state, but
Speaker 6: then again abortion rights triumped in nearby Kansas.
Speaker 4: Correct, it did.
Speaker 13: And it is also about initiative in Nebraska, as is
Speaker 13: the legalization of medical cannabis is going to be on
Speaker 13: the ballot as well. And you know, I always divert
Speaker 13: back to the Constitution of the United States and the.
Speaker 4: Founding fathers and how they envisioned the country.
Speaker 13: And they envisioned the federal government take care of the
Speaker 13: big stuff, the economy, the border affairs, things like that,
Speaker 13: And I don't think the United States government should be
Speaker 13: meddling in our personal affairs, whether that's at the doctor's
Speaker 13: office or our bedrooms.
Speaker 4: I truly believe that. And so you know what I
Speaker 4: codify Roe v. Wade. You know that goes that boils
Speaker 4: down to also.
Speaker 13: The federal government should be taking care of our individual liberties,
Speaker 13: right the Second Amendment, things like that, and so I
Speaker 13: believe that does fall under the category of an individual liberty.
Speaker 13: Look in my own personal life, I'm on a percent
Speaker 13: pro life. I would never advocate for anyone that I
Speaker 13: know or love to have that procedure.
Speaker 4: But if I also know that I'm a male.
Speaker 13: And I don't have a womban I would never advocate
Speaker 13: for women to have that choice. And I know pregnancy
Speaker 13: is a very difficult thing and that it does need
Speaker 13: to be available for women who need that procedure because
Speaker 13: it could be life threatening. So you know, it's a
Speaker 13: very polarizing, a very difficult subject to talk about, but
Speaker 13: ultimately I would I would side on a woman being
Speaker 13: able to choose for her own body.
Speaker 2: What about the medical marijuana one? How are you going
Speaker 2: to vote on that?
Speaker 6: I didn't realize that was up, But how does Nebraskan
Speaker 6: not have yet have that yet?
Speaker 2: Come on, guys, well, I met the woman who.
Speaker 13: Is leading that ballot initiative, and she has a son
Speaker 13: that has a condition that it would totally benefit from
Speaker 13: being able to give him THC to not have massive seizures.
Speaker 13: And so the fact that you know she doesn't have
Speaker 13: this medicine, and I'm going to call it medicine because
Speaker 13: ultimately that's what it is. In this case, she doesn't
Speaker 13: have this medicine available to give to her son. And
Speaker 13: if she goes out and gets it through other means
Speaker 13: and gives it to her son, the state can take
Speaker 13: her son away from her.
Speaker 4: This is this is absurd. So absolutely, I'm going I'm
Speaker 4: going to vote for that.
Speaker 6: Well, I guess last question, have you have you endorsed
Speaker 6: a presidential candidate, because I assume that you're hoping that
Speaker 6: they're a decent number. I mean, you can't win in
Speaker 6: Nebraska if there aren't a decent number of Trump Osbourne voters,
Speaker 6: people who vote for Trump and then vote for Osbourne.
Speaker 6: How are you How are you approaching the presidential.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well I approach it.
Speaker 13: I tell people, Look, I will work with whoever the
Speaker 13: president is. And since I've been doing this and speaking
Speaker 13: to people who are one hundred percent pro Trump, and well,
Speaker 13: I'll go back to an event I had.
Speaker 4: An alliance in Nebraska. It's on the western end of
Speaker 4: the state.
Speaker 13: There was about seventy five people at this event at
Speaker 13: a VFW, which.
Speaker 4: I'm a member of.
Speaker 13: But I had a guy come in wearing a Maga
Speaker 13: hat an open Cary pistol. I had people there with
Speaker 13: right and with Biden T shirts, you know, so it
Speaker 13: was a very eclectic group of folks and uh, you know,
Speaker 13: we had great conversations and uh, both riding with Biden
Speaker 13: T shirt and both Mago opencerry hat guy they left
Speaker 13: with Osborne Yard Science. Because my message is simple, we
Speaker 13: need to get back to working together.
Speaker 4: Because at the end of the day, I'm not red,
Speaker 4: I'm not blue.
Speaker 13: We're all This is going to sound really cheesy, but
Speaker 13: we're all red, white, and blue.
Speaker 4: Right, We're we're Americans.
Speaker 13: Uh, and we need to and we need to act
Speaker 13: as such, and we need to start to come back
Speaker 13: together and stop this this silly arguing.
Speaker 4: And this the bud that's been created.
Speaker 13: And uh, that's again that's my message, and it's and
Speaker 13: it's getting corporations again out of our politics, getting the
Speaker 13: money out of our politics, stop.
Speaker 4: This corruption that we're seeing.
Speaker 13: I want to be different, and that's that message is
Speaker 13: really resonating with both conservatives and liberals.
Speaker 4: So I have I have pictures with my Osborne sign.
Speaker 13: Out in front of a Trump tent that they were in.
Speaker 4: I believe it was Boone County, Nebraska.
Speaker 13: Out of affair there they put my sign out in
Speaker 13: front of the trunk tent and I see my sign
Speaker 13: next to Harris signs.
Speaker 4: So I love it. I Uh.
Speaker 13: That's the whole message of this campaign is let's just
Speaker 13: let's just be one people again.
Speaker 2: Hmm all right. Well, Dan Osborne, Navy veteran steam fitter,
Speaker 2: union leader and independent Senate candidate in Nebraska, thanks so
Speaker 2: much for joining us. Really appreciate it.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having me on. I appreciate you.
Speaker 2: You've got it. Take it easy, Emily, What do you
Speaker 2: think he has your vote?
Speaker 5: I mean, I don't love dub Fisher, so.
Speaker 2: I'm not zero people love that fish. I mean her
Speaker 2: family loved well.
Speaker 5: I think she's probably been good to some particular industry
Speaker 5: in Nebraska. I'd have to like, go.
Speaker 2: Back surance industry.
Speaker 6: I think that's the other think Nebraska is a it's
Speaker 6: not just culturally conservat it's actually kind of a corporate
Speaker 6: state too, because there's a lot based on a were
Speaker 6: in Buffett, the insure and then there's the insurance industry there.
Speaker 2: So the anti corporate.
Speaker 5: Ag there's a lot of stuff out there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, consolidated, big age.
Speaker 6: The anti corporate message is going to run up against
Speaker 6: some people are like, hey, wait a minute, we're a
Speaker 6: corporate state here.
Speaker 5: Well no, I mean it's it's it's so interesting and
Speaker 5: it's like we weirdly didn't even plan for this, but
Speaker 5: this turned into like a realignment themed edition of Counterpoints,
Speaker 5: because this kind of goes with every black Like we
Speaker 5: started talking about our kid and Tulsi like not having
Speaker 5: a lot of luck in the third party lane or
Speaker 5: in the independent lane or in the like populist dem lane.
Speaker 5: They talked about how that's going in France, the.
Speaker 6: Weird journey of Zuka all throughout, all throughout his realignment.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just up to Nebraska.
Speaker 5: The most interesting part of that, actually, I thought was
Speaker 5: his answer on row that one seemed like I just
Speaker 5: got the sun that he felt that was the toughest one.
Speaker 6: And he game, yeah, I'm sure it is, because on
Speaker 6: the one hand, I bet the ballot measure in Nebraska
Speaker 6: will pass so.
Speaker 2: And you know, I don't know, But what do you think?
Speaker 6: I don't know how close you've followed the like how
Speaker 6: you because it passed in Kansas?
Speaker 5: Right well, But his version of and soccer talks black
Speaker 5: is a lot. But his version of like live and
Speaker 5: let live libertarianism is really popular with Americans. And that's
Speaker 5: sort of what some of these like pro abortion activists
Speaker 5: have tapped into in places like Kansas, is like libertarians
Speaker 5: for choice, like those types.
Speaker 2: Of groups, you don't want to vaccine mandate.
Speaker 5: Get right like they're they're doing, like they're really being
Speaker 5: smart about how they're pitching this stuff in ads to voters.
Speaker 5: And so that his answer in that I think was
Speaker 5: trying to channel that sentiment. And it's so interesting how
Speaker 5: he's coded and said I'm pro life. I think he
Speaker 5: said I'm one hundred percent pro life when you asked
Speaker 5: him that. But he's also coded as a hardcore labor leader.
Speaker 5: I don't know anybody else who really brings those two
Speaker 5: things together, because even Donald Trump would never say that
Speaker 5: he was one hundred percent of pro life. I mean,
Speaker 5: I doubt he would, you know, say it like that.
Speaker 5: But he's, you know, not great on labor. We don't
Speaker 5: really know what we actually do. You know, bring in
Speaker 5: the CEO of Eggsun and statementation and just you know,
Speaker 5: let things go. But gets so rare that you get
Speaker 5: a combination that's as stark like that.
Speaker 6: And we'll see if it reverts to the partisan mean
Speaker 6: an he winds up losing by seven eight points, or
Speaker 6: if he ends up kind of shocking people.
Speaker 5: A lot of money's going to come in for deub Fisher.
Speaker 2: I'm sure, yes, that's true.
Speaker 6: I wonder it's a it's kind of a catch twenty
Speaker 6: two because I think Democrats, even though I think Democrats
Speaker 6: are pretty confident, he would caucus.
Speaker 2: With them if it meant giving them the majority, you know.
Speaker 5: Pro life or caucusing with them in the Senate.
Speaker 6: Yeah, although who said he would vote to codify ROS
Speaker 6: That's how I read his answer. But will Democrats spend
Speaker 6: money on his behalf or maybe then, because then it
Speaker 6: makes him look like a Democrat? Yeah, and his and
Speaker 6: Democrats are fatally existentially unpopular in rural areas, and I
Speaker 6: think just giving up is actually small.
Speaker 5: Including Tim Walls by the way, if you look at
Speaker 5: his marvell. Yeah, so this is a really important race
Speaker 5: to follow. And maybe I'm a softy, but I just
Speaker 5: love like that story he said about the rydeing with
Speaker 5: Biden and the open carry guys both leading, leaving with
Speaker 5: his yard signs and then being able to just talk
Speaker 5: about this stuff is awesome. I think that's great.
Speaker 2: I wonder where that Ryde with Biden T shirt is.
Speaker 5: We gotta get you one put on the show.
Speaker 2: Maybe I'll buy that guys stuff it into your fish
Speaker 2: water bottle.
Speaker 5: All right, Well, we will be back if you're a
Speaker 5: premium subscriber, on Thursday evening with a truly incredible debate
Speaker 5: about our Cage Junior featuring Michael Tracy and somebody who
Speaker 5: was a field organizer for our FK Junior's campaign, Jeff Hunt.
Speaker 5: So that's on Thursday night. If you're premium sub you
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Speaker 5: back with more Counterpoints on next Wednesday.
Speaker 2: See you then, stay tuned.