1 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:05,559 Speaker 1: The most senior person in the U. S Military is 2 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: always the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Person 3 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:11,639 Speaker 1: to hold that title is General Mark Milley. He was 4 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: appointed by President Trump and continues to serve under President Biden. 5 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:17,759 Speaker 1: I had a chance recently at the National Archives to 6 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 1: sit down with General Milly to discuss a wide range 7 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:23,919 Speaker 1: of civilian and military issues the Chairman now faces. So 8 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 1: this is where our constitution, the original copy of the 9 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: Constitution is stored, and it's right over there. So what 10 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:32,560 Speaker 1: does the Constitution mean to you as the Chairman of 11 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: the Joint chiefs of Staff. Well, for us, and I 12 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 1: would argue that for all of us in uniform. Uh. 13 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,160 Speaker 1: You know, we swear an oath um and that oath 14 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: is to the Constitution, and we're sworn to protect and 15 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 1: support and defend it against all enemies. For in a 16 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: domestic we don't take an oath to an individual, a king, 17 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 1: a queen, a tribe or religion or any of that. Will. 18 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: We take an oath to an idea of the idea 19 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: that's America. And that idea is expressed in the documents 20 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: that you see here, the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. Uh. 21 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 1: And that's a solemn oath, uh, and I and those 22 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 1: that came before me and those that will come after me, 23 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: we swear that oath that we're willing to sacrifice everything 24 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: to protect and defend that document, the idea that's America. So, 25 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to me, is 26 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: one of the great titles in Washington. You're the most 27 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: important military person. But what does that really mean that 28 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: be the Chairman of the Joint chiefs of Staff. What 29 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 1: is your real job? By law, the Chairman of the 30 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:29,400 Speaker 1: Joint chief Staff is an advisor, uh. An advisor to 31 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: the President States, Secretary Defense, to the National Security Council 32 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: and what used to be called the Homeland Security Council. 33 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: And it's strictly an advisory role. You're not in the 34 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:40,680 Speaker 1: chain of command. The chain of command is the President 35 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 1: to the Secretary Defense, to the combatant commanders, and or 36 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:46,320 Speaker 1: the secretaries of the military department. So uh, the job 37 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: is strictly advisory. But at the same time and not 38 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: in the chain of command, you are in the chain 39 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: of communication. UH. So, routine communications between the President of 40 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 1: Secretary Defense and the combatant commanders typically goes through the 41 00:01:57,440 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. Uh. So you're very much 42 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 1: in evolved, but you have no decision authority. Uh. You 43 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: don't make decisions per se. You advise the President, sect 44 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 1: off and the others on their their decisions that they 45 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 1: will make. But to be realistic about it, when the 46 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 1: President United States wants to do something militarily, he relies 47 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 1: on the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. You're 48 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 1: his advisor. When he says I want to do X, 49 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: Y or Z, I assume you tell other military officials. 50 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 1: So while you're not technically in the chain of command, 51 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:29,960 Speaker 1: it doesn't sound as if people are going around you. 52 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 1: Is that right? No, typically they don't, But I would 53 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:36,359 Speaker 1: say that I am one of the advisors. The Chairman's 54 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: job is to be the chairman of a body, a 55 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: group called the Joint Chiefs of Staff, consisting of the 56 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 1: chiefs of each of the services the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, 57 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: Space Force, uh and and in the National Guard as well. 58 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 1: And so the Joint Chiefs as a body, what I 59 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 1: do is I represent their views to include dissenting opinions. 60 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 1: But at any time, any one of those Joint chiefs, 61 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: every one of them, by law is considered an independent 62 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 1: advisor to the president. Any one of them can invoke 63 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 1: their right to go and talk to the president about 64 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: a certain topic. In addition to that, the combatant commanders, 65 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: the field commanders, if you will, UH, they also provide 66 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,519 Speaker 1: their advice, their best military advice, or what some would 67 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: call considered military advice UH to the president. And they 68 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: should and can and do all the time. So I 69 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 1: am one of several advisors. I'm I'm within the law, 70 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:26,639 Speaker 1: it's called the principal military advisor, but not the only 71 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: military advisor. So a couple of years ago, you went 72 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 1: to see the President United States, President Trump, and it 73 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: was reported that you were probably going to become the 74 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: Supreme Allied Commander in Europe, a very important position, UM. 75 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 1: And you emerge from that meeting as the projected chairman 76 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, where you surprised that 77 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 1: you got that position rather than one that people thought 78 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: you were gonna get. I knew when I went over 79 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: there that I was interviewing to be the Chairman of 80 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: the Joint chiefs UH and sack youre uh and any 81 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: other position that the President deemed necessary. The US question. 82 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: President Trump said to me of The first comment he 83 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: said was, Uh, you're here to interview to be the 84 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: chairman of the Joint Chief Staff. It was myself and uh, 85 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 1: then White House Chief of Staff Kelly, and the President. 86 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: We had about an hour long conversation and at the 87 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: end of it he said thank you very much. And 88 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,479 Speaker 1: the following day he called me and made the offer 89 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 1: to hav me be his chairman. Uh. And all of 90 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 1: us serve at the pleasure of the President. So whenever 91 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: year asked for any duty position as a soldier, uh, 92 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 1: you execute the will of the president. So when you 93 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: become the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, does 94 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:33,479 Speaker 1: your wife call you Mr? Chairman? Your children cheat you 95 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 1: with greater respect? How does that work? No? In fact, UH, 96 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 1: you know, I'm very lucky to have met my wife 97 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 1: and we were married, and she's been with me through 98 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 1: thick and thin the entire time. She's an incredible woman 99 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:51,159 Speaker 1: to the nurse still practices as a nurse. She keeps 100 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:54,160 Speaker 1: me grounded, and both my son and daughter keep me grounded. So, Um, 101 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: you've had a lot of publicity for some things you've 102 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 1: had to deal with in your time as Chairman Joint 103 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 1: chiefs of Staff. That go through a couple of them. 104 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 1: One is the events in Lafayette Square. So there you've 105 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: publicly addressed that. But essentially you did not expect to 106 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 1: be seen as a kind of political role because that's 107 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 1: not your job. Um, Is that right? Yeah? Absolutely. I 108 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 1: found out very very quickly. As I looked forward and 109 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 1: I saw the press being set up, I realized it 110 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:25,720 Speaker 1: was a political event, and I got out of the way. 111 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: And I regret that then, and I made comments about it. 112 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: You know, some people think, you know, uh, that that 113 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:35,599 Speaker 1: that's an okay thing to be walking with the president 114 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: sort of thing. I don't. Walking with the President's fine. 115 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: But if it's a strictly political event, and that was 116 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 1: I is, and it's not the president, it's me. The 117 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: uniform shouldn't be there. We have a long tradition going 118 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 1: way way back of an a political military, and we 119 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: in uniform must make every effort to remain a political 120 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: not be involved in the actual domestic politics of the 121 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:02,279 Speaker 1: United States. And that was a moment where I realized 122 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: what was happening, and I broke away. Uh. And it's 123 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: important that I broke away, and it's important that I 124 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 1: apologized publicly for it. So that those in uniform know 125 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: the standard as an a political military. So let's talk 126 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 1: about the events of January six. I assume you've thought 127 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,599 Speaker 1: about that affair bit in hindsight, do you think that 128 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 1: somebody could have done a better job of protecting the 129 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:25,839 Speaker 1: capital or somebody whoever it was, could have done a 130 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 1: better job. I'll let the January six Commission and all 131 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: the various investigations, UH, do all the postmortems on it. Uh. 132 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 1: It's obvious to me that the capital was breached. It 133 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:39,840 Speaker 1: was very significant event, one of the most significant events 134 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: in recent history. But I'll let the historians and the 135 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:46,720 Speaker 1: commissions and the investigators all sort through all that. All right, 136 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: You've also had Afghanistan. We've withdrawn from Afghanistan after twenty years. 137 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 1: The exit from Afghanistan was one where we lost I 138 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 1: think thirteen U S military in the exit process. In hindsight, 139 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: could the x have been um orchestrated better? There's a 140 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 1: few things that could have been done better. One is 141 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 1: the intelligence piece. Um, you know, an army that was 142 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: on paper three maybe a committed to fifty No one's 143 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: actually sure of the number. I suppose, but an army 144 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 1: and a police force that size and a government that collapses, 145 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 1: literally collapses in eleven days. That was a surprise. So 146 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 1: that's something that we need to figure out. We need 147 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: to figure out how and why that happened. It almost 148 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: sounds like a Malcolm Gladwell tipping point study, but it's 149 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: it's something that we need to sort out. And why 150 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: is it we didn't see that? I think that's really important. 151 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: Another one I think is the timing of our response 152 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 1: UH so UM we had collapsed most of our military 153 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: UH and most of the NATO allies by the middle 154 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: of July in the bases associated with them had been 155 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 1: transitioned over to the Afghan military. All that went relatively smoothly, 156 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: without many hiccups, And that was going on really for 157 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: quite a while, probably the better part of a year, 158 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: and that was going pretty well. So the NEO is 159 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 1: the piece that you're talking about, the non combatant evacuation UH. 160 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: That is UH an operation where we ran six thousand 161 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: UH troops, some of which were prepositioned in the Middle 162 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: East in the event of that contingency, some of which 163 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,199 Speaker 1: came from continental United States UH, and we deployed them 164 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:38,319 Speaker 1: very very rapidly. UH took control of an airfield, the 165 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: Kabul International Airfield in a hostile environment. Uh. And we 166 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: did that eight and a half time zones away. We 167 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:47,559 Speaker 1: set up twenty seven animmediate staging bases around the world, 168 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 1: and in a very short period of time, less than 169 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:54,839 Speaker 1: three weeks, we were evacuating thousand people. The first two days, 170 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: first forty eight hours of that was very dramatic. People 171 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:01,680 Speaker 1: were hanging off airplanes mass on the airfield, some of 172 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:03,559 Speaker 1: them were in the wheel wells. It was very tragic. 173 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:08,559 Speaker 1: And then at the tail end we we had um 174 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 1: an incident where a suicide bomber went up to a 175 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: patrol or or a perimeter man by Marines and killed 176 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:20,880 Speaker 1: thirteen of our levin Marines and and a soldier in 177 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:24,079 Speaker 1: a Navy corman. Um. And that was a tactical event 178 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: that happened that has strategic consequence. So let's talk about 179 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: your own background. Uh. It wasn't pre ordained that you 180 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: would become Chairman of the Joint chiefs of Staff when 181 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: you're growing up. I assumed so your family had been 182 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 1: in the military. Your father was an iwajima and your 183 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,680 Speaker 1: mother was in the military as well. Is that right? Yeah? 184 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 1: My dad uh and mother they were both in the Navy. Actually, 185 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:47,839 Speaker 1: my dad was a Navy corman, uh. And then when 186 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 1: he finished the corman training, um, he went into the 187 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 1: He was assigned to the fourth Marine Division, so he 188 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: was a Navy corpman. Fourth Marine Division did the assault 189 00:09:56,360 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: landings at Kwa Jilina Toll, Saipan in Ewa Jima, saw 190 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: an awful lot of combat. Grew up some of Thelle Massachusetts, 191 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 1: graduated some of the high school and then from high 192 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:10,440 Speaker 1: school and right into the Navy. B Acorman. And my 193 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: mother she graduated from St. Mary's High School in Winchester, Massachusetts, 194 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 1: and uh, she went right into the Navy as well, 195 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 1: also into the medical Corps, and she served out of 196 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:23,199 Speaker 1: a hospital in Seattle taking care of the wounded coming 197 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:25,680 Speaker 1: back from the Pacific. Very proud of their service. Both 198 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 1: of them passed on, but that generation was very special. 199 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: So when I read about your background, I saw Boston 200 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: and a very fancy high school, Belmont High School and Princeton. 201 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 1: I figured he must be a Boston brahmin, a wealthy 202 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:42,679 Speaker 1: Boston family. Is that right? No, not at all, um, No. 203 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 1: I mean, neither one of my parents went to college, 204 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 1: and we grew up in a very working class neighborhood 205 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: and UM and my dad never made much money at all. 206 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 1: My mother worked steadily the entire time, which was very 207 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 1: rare in those days. UM and they emphasized sports and education. 208 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: And I was very fortunate went to a Catholic grammar 209 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 1: school which emphasized some really good education, had some decent grades, 210 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 1: and had an opportunity to go to the school called 211 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 1: Belmont Hill which had a great hockey program. And I 212 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 1: played for a great coach and uh, and I got 213 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 1: recruited by them and played for for that high school 214 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: and a really great opportunity. So you went to Princeton 215 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 1: and you graduated from Princeton, And were you a star 216 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 1: in the hockey? We're all at Princeton, And did you 217 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 1: think you could go to the NHL or not? Really? 218 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: I thought starting out I could go to the NHL, 219 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:39,440 Speaker 1: And I quickly learned that the competitiveness of college hockey 220 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 1: was probably not the NHL. Probably wasn't in my future. 221 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 1: But I was okay. I was just a steady player, 222 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:46,559 Speaker 1: and I was decent, but certainly not a star. That 223 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 1: did you lose a lot of your teeth playing hockey 224 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 1: and Princeton or not a Princeton. I I have lost 225 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:54,839 Speaker 1: four teeth playing hockey. Playing hockey, broke broke my jar 226 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: and three different places, lost four teeth and probably got 227 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 1: more than a hundred stitches in my face. So so 228 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 1: I have a face for radio. Dude. When you were 229 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: at Princeton, did a lot of people say I want 230 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:09,119 Speaker 1: to be in the military or most of your classmates 231 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: were going into something like private equity or hedge funds 232 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 1: or Goldman Sachs and so were you an outlier by 233 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 1: being in the military at Princeton? Oh? Yeah, for sure. 234 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:22,319 Speaker 1: So I grew up in a neighborhood that emphasized patriotism. 235 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: Uh and the opportunity that this country was an amazing 236 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 1: country that, um, you know that you have opportunities that 237 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 1: are not available elsewhere. So I was early on I 238 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 1: decided that I did want to serve. I wanted to 239 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 1: be in NHL, but I wanted to serve my country 240 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 1: as well. Uh. So when I went to school, there 241 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 1: was an opportunity to join OURTCU, and I did that. 242 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 1: So I played hockey, joined ARTC and tried to study 243 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 1: once in a while. Uh And in the RTC program, 244 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: I was attracted to it again. I thought Uh. I 245 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: never thought I'd make a career of the military. I 246 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: thought I'd come in and do my four years. I 247 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: had a scholarship. Uh, do my four years and and 248 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: then get out and move on. As you say, all right, 249 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: so you go into the military, and after four years 250 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: you can discharge your obligation, your r OTC obligation, and 251 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: then you can go into you know, whatever you want 252 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: to do. But you decided to make it a career, 253 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: was not right? Well, I decided to take it in 254 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: small chunks. I really enjoyed the military. Um, I was 255 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:21,320 Speaker 1: in the infantry and then Special Forces and uh. And 256 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 1: I wanted to stay through company command and then that's 257 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 1: captain at level. Uh and see how that worked out. 258 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 1: And then once I was captain and stay through major. 259 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:33,080 Speaker 1: It's just taking it small chunks. I never had a 260 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 1: long range plan whatsoever. Actually for my personal career in 261 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 1: the military. Got married along the way, had children. But 262 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:41,960 Speaker 1: I've never looked back and never had to regret because 263 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 1: I've loved the military most see about the people that 264 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 1: I've served with. So when you're playing hockey, you can 265 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:49,719 Speaker 1: lose your teeth, but when you're in combat, you can 266 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 1: lose your life. So when were you first in combat 267 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: and you thought I could lose my life? Well, first 268 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:00,840 Speaker 1: combat was Panama for me in nine But uh, you 269 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 1: can lose your life a lot of ways in the military. Um, 270 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 1: the military is a very dangerous occupation, even when you're 271 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: not in combat. Uh So, whether it's in training or 272 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:14,679 Speaker 1: in combat, our soldiers and our sailors, air memoranes, Uh, 273 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:16,839 Speaker 1: they're sacrificing a lot every single day, day in and 274 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 1: day seven to keep this country safe. Uh So, losing 275 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: your life is something that I think everyone wearing a 276 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 1: uniform has to come to grips with. It's not just combat. 277 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 1: But for me, the first time in combat was Panama. 278 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 1: And when that happened, did you think you could get 279 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 1: shot and killed there? Were You're worried about that? What 280 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: did your parents say? My father actually was pretty upset. Um. 281 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 1: My mother very religious, She accepted things and sort of 282 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 1: the Lord will be with you sort of attitude. But 283 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 1: my dad, who had seen a lot of combat in 284 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 1: World War Two, certainly wasn't keen on his son being 285 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 1: in combat. Now, did your parents live to see you 286 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: rise up to be a general or some senior officer. No, 287 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: my mother passed away in a in the nineties. UM, 288 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 1: so I would have been a major. I guess at 289 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: the time my father did. My father lived to see 290 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: me be a generalman. And my father was always proud 291 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: of our service or my service. Um. And he talked 292 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: to me about, you know, his experiences many many times. 293 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: But look at he was a kid. He was he 294 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: was eighteen nineteen one when the war ended, hit the beach, 295 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: best friends killed. Uh, just saw some unbelievably intense battles. UM. 296 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 1: And he and I talked about his experiences and my 297 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 1: experiences frequently later in his life. But he was always 298 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: very proud. He loved America, loved loved the country, and 299 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 1: loved the loose in uniform. So as we look at 300 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 1: the military situation United States faces today, what do you 301 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: think the greatest military risk the United States faces? That 302 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: from Russia, China, other places. I think it's China. Um. 303 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: And I've said that publicly many times. I think as 304 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: we look to the future, and I think, Um, we 305 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: are living in his orcle epic actually, Uh, We're we're 306 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 1: seeing the rise of a country that is unlike something 307 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: we've seen probably ever before. Uh. And it's one of 308 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 1: the great historical pivot points I think that we've ever witnessed, 309 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 1: which is the rise of China, UH and from the 310 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: reforms of nineteen seventy nine and dan Xiaoping up till today, 311 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 1: which is I guess that's what two years or so, 312 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 1: four decades. They've had an incredible economic run and with 313 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: that they've developed a military that's really significant as we 314 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 1: go forward over the next ten years, there's no question 315 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 1: in my mind that the biggest geo strategic challenge to 316 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 1: the United States is going to be China. That that 317 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 1: I have no doubt at all. Russia is important, not 318 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: unimportant at all. Russia has very significant military capabilities. Of 319 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 1: North Korea Ran is still there, terrorists are gonna be 320 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: around for quite a while. But I think China is 321 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 1: clearly the most significant geo strategic threat we face as 322 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 1: we talked today. There have recently been some reports that 323 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 1: the Chinese have a hypersonic missile that can theoretically go 324 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 1: into space and then come down with a nuclear bomb, 325 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: escaping our ability to uh knock it down? Is that 326 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 1: something I should be worried about, our all Americans should 327 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 1: be worried about. Well, what you saw, and I don't 328 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 1: want to get too much into the classification of what 329 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:21,159 Speaker 1: we saw. But what we saw was a very significant 330 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 1: event of a test of a hypersonic UH weapons system UM, 331 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 1: and it is very concerning. I think I saw in 332 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: some of the newspapers they used the term Sputnik moment. 333 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 1: I don't know if it's quite a spot nic moment, 334 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:37,199 Speaker 1: but I think it's very close to that. So it's 335 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 1: a very significant technological UH event that occurred or tests 336 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,159 Speaker 1: that occurred by the Chinese, and it has all of 337 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: our attention, UM, and we're paying it. But that's just 338 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: one of that's just one weapon system. The Chinese military 339 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:55,439 Speaker 1: capabilities are much greater than that. They're expanding rapidly UH 340 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 1: in space, UH in cyber and then in the traditional 341 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,200 Speaker 1: domains of land, C and A. And they have gone 342 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: from a peasant based infantry army that was very very 343 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,640 Speaker 1: large in nineteen seventy nine UH to a very capable 344 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:12,480 Speaker 1: military that covers all the domains UH and has global ambitions. 345 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:16,360 Speaker 1: So China is very significant on our horizon. But can 346 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 1: I presume that the United States has thought of doing 347 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,919 Speaker 1: a hypersonic missile as well, and that we are not 348 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 1: caught completely flat footed in our ability to maybe produce 349 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 1: something like that ourselves. We are clearly experimenting and testing 350 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 1: and developing technologies to include hypersonics, artificial intelligence, robotics, and 351 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 1: a whole wide range. Uh. Now, if you take a 352 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:42,639 Speaker 1: step back, um, what what we're in in history wise 353 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 1: is we're in one of the most significant changes in 354 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:48,199 Speaker 1: what I call the character of war. But today, with 355 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 1: the introduction of precision munitions, the ability to see all 356 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 1: over the world, artificial intelligence, robotics, hypersonics, all of these 357 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,439 Speaker 1: things together, this is an enormous change in the character war. 358 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 1: We're gonna have to adjust our military going forward. In Asia. 359 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: Should I be worried about North Korea or not? North Korea. 360 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 1: Were always paying attention to North Korea because that's a 361 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 1: country that's extraordinarily well armed. They've got seventy percent of 362 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 1: their military is arraid within striking range of the de 363 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 1: militarized Zone. Seoul itself is only twenty seven miles from 364 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: the de military zone. It's under the missile envelope of 365 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 1: North Korea. Uh. And the regime of North Korea is 366 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: a brutal, vicious, tough regime, very aggressive, and it's led 367 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:29,880 Speaker 1: by an individual. It's very difficult to figure out. They're 368 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:33,400 Speaker 1: always doing provocations over the over the course of time, 369 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 1: whether it's missiles or other things. Uh. So, North Korea 370 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: is something that we always are watching very closely. Our 371 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 1: intent in North Korea or China or Russia, we want 372 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 1: to maintain a military capability and a diplomatic uh level 373 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,880 Speaker 1: of effort to deter war. We don't want any conflict. 374 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 1: We want to deter war. But if deterrence fails, were 375 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 1: determined to fulfill our in the case of South Korea, 376 00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 1: our treaty obligations with South Korea. So far, since nineteen 377 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 1: fifty three, deterrence has worked, and we're hopeful that it 378 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 1: will continue to work. Now we've heard of cyber attacks 379 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:10,880 Speaker 1: from China, North Korea, Russia in the United States. Uh. 380 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 1: We don't know if they come from their military, but 381 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 1: presumption is that some of it might. Um can you 382 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: make American people feel good that we have cyber capabilities 383 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 1: that are just as good as the ones attacking us? 384 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: I assume you can't tell us about all our cyber capabilities, 385 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 1: but I assume nobody has better cyber capabilities than we do. 386 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 1: Is that affair? I would say that we are the 387 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 1: world's number one capability and cyberspace. But I would also 388 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 1: tell you that China and Russia are very very good, 389 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 1: as well as many other countries. UH. In terms of defense. 390 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 1: What we when when the Internet and the cyber world 391 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 1: first developed, people weren't thinking of it as a domain 392 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:46,679 Speaker 1: of war. They weren't thinking of it in terms of 393 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:50,639 Speaker 1: setting up architectures that were robust and resilient for defense. UH. 394 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,360 Speaker 1: Those days are gone now. So years ago we started 395 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 1: working on that, UH, and we have a long ways 396 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: to go. But we need to make our critical infrastructure, 397 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 1: our financial systems, for example, are electrical systems, and many 398 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,920 Speaker 1: many other pieces of our of our national economy much 399 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 1: more resilient to cybertech because our adversaries are very aggressive 400 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:13,400 Speaker 1: in cyberspace. So you have a four year term, you're 401 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: about halfway a little bit more than halfway through it. 402 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,679 Speaker 1: When you ultimately reached the end of your four year term, 403 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 1: which was all you can have, you will retire from 404 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 1: the military. Is that right? That's great? So you know 405 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 1: what you're gonna do afterwards, something important like private equity 406 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: or anything like that. I have no idea, haven't given 407 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,639 Speaker 1: an announce of thought to the truth I've got a 408 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:36,880 Speaker 1: full time seven job and busy as to be every 409 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 1: single day, so I actually haven't given announce of thought. 410 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,399 Speaker 1: So if someone wants a leader, is it better to 411 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 1: find a general or an admiral? I think, as as 412 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:49,879 Speaker 1: a chairman of the joint cheese, I'll opt out of 413 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 1: that one, David. That's like asking me to say, who 414 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: do you love more? Your your son or your data. 415 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,919 Speaker 1: So I think leaders come in all kinds of forms, 416 00:21:57,920 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 1: and you know, by the way, they don't even have 417 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,639 Speaker 1: to wear a uniform. I think you get great leaders 418 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: in all walks of life, uh, and that served this 419 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 1: country in many, many different ways, whether they're nurses and 420 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 1: doctors or cops and firemen, no matter who they are, 421 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: whether they're uh, you know, like yourself as a financier 422 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: and a philanthropist. Uh, there's there's leaders that come in 423 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,639 Speaker 1: all all shapes and sizes and stripes throughout the throughout 424 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 1: the country, and many of those are in uniform. And 425 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 1: I'm very, very proud of the generals and animals that 426 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 1: are currently serving. Thanks for listening to hear more of 427 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:30,440 Speaker 1: my interviews. You can subscribe and download my podcast on Spotify, Apple, 428 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen