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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark.

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Speaker 1: There's Charles w. Cute as a button Bryant, and there's

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Speaker 1: Jerry squee rolland and this is stuff you should know

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Speaker 1: of the podcast. A cute addition, that's right, the science

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Speaker 1: a cute. Yeah, I'm excited about this when I've been

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Speaker 1: wanting to do it for a while. I remember, like

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Speaker 1: that was one of the first things you ever said

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Speaker 1: to me when we met in the office, how cute

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Speaker 1: you are? Well? No, we were in the break room

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Speaker 1: and I saw a picture of a baby panda and

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Speaker 1: I just started to melt, and you went, hey, jerk,

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Speaker 1: you ever wonder why you think things are cute? I

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Speaker 1: bet there's science behind that. Maybe we should talk about

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Speaker 1: it one day, and look here we are. What was that,

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Speaker 1: well thirteen years ago almost man, you really responded to

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Speaker 1: that aggression into so chuck. Have you ever heard of

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Speaker 1: Mickey Mouse? Oh? I know several mice, but I've never

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Speaker 1: heard of Mickey Mouse. You've only heard of Modeled Muck

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Speaker 1: and Ricky Rouse. Um, well, let me tell you about

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Speaker 1: Mickey Mouse. He's actually the mascot of a very large

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Speaker 1: entertainment corporation called Disney. Uh. They own Walt Disney World,

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Speaker 1: Walt Disneyland. I think ABC owns them. They're they're affiliated

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Speaker 1: with ESPN. They're very, very big. But they have this mascot.

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Speaker 1: It's a mouse and his name's Mickey. He's he's kind

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Speaker 1: of big, especially abroad. Um. But if you look at

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Speaker 1: Mickey today, you think, wow, that's a really cute mouse.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't really look like a mouse. He's black and white

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Speaker 1: basically are brownish and black. Um. But also his few

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Speaker 1: teachers are very much not mouse like. But if you

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Speaker 1: were to go back and look at the beginning of Mickey,

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Speaker 1: I think he's from the nine twenties, like nineteen twenties.

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Speaker 1: In his earliest cartoons, he looked a lot more mousey

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Speaker 1: like cartoon mouse, but he had, you know, his pointed features,

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Speaker 1: not nearly as cute. But then if you fast forward

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Speaker 1: about ten years later, by the time rolls around and

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Speaker 1: he's in something called The Brave Taylor that was one

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Speaker 1: of his shorts, UM where I think he defeats a

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Speaker 1: giant or something like that. Um, he looks full blown

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Speaker 1: Mickey Mouse, but he looks way cuter and they had

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Speaker 1: done a few things to him. They had like made

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Speaker 1: his eyes bigger, they've made his features rounder less pointed. Um,

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Speaker 1: he had big gloves and big shoes. Now he's kind

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Speaker 1: of plump and oversized features, and he had gotten cute.

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Speaker 1: And the scientist Stephen Jay Gould, who really deserves his

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Speaker 1: own episode like Carl Sagan does, Um, just a really

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Speaker 1: interesting dude. Um. He said that Disney and his animators

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Speaker 1: had stumbled upon something that the zoologists and mythologist Conrad

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Speaker 1: Lawrence UM termed can can schema. I think I got

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Speaker 1: that right right. Uh yeah, can can schema very nice. Um.

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Speaker 1: But like years before Conrad Lawrence ever did that, they

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Speaker 1: had just kind of naturally figured out like, oh, this

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Speaker 1: can be way more appealing if we if we exaggerate

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Speaker 1: these particular features. And it turns out what they had

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Speaker 1: done is make him literally cut by the very scientific

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Speaker 1: definition of cuteness. Yeah. So Lawrence was an Austrian scientist

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Speaker 1: and in the forties came up with this. And this

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Speaker 1: made me feel quite good about myself actually looking over

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Speaker 1: this list about physical qualities that um, and it's not

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Speaker 1: just a person came me an animal. As we'll see

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Speaker 1: a lot of this is animal based. But these things,

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Speaker 1: these traits that would evoke a positive response, a very

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Speaker 1: strong positive response, and they are large head. M that's me, um,

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Speaker 1: high protruding forehead. I've always said you have a five head.

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Speaker 1: If any, it's it's average, large eyes, sort of average,

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Speaker 1: chubby cheeks bingo. Oh, you should make the cheeks make

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Speaker 1: a sonic appearance. Very nice. It's been years, still as

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Speaker 1: moist as ever. Sorry, everyone. Uh, chubby cheeks, small nose,

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Speaker 1: I'm an average nose, small mouth, and chin I'd say

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Speaker 1: average short, thick extremities, actually have sort of skinny legs.

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Speaker 1: I'll carry my weight between my chin and my belt.

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Speaker 1: Plump body shape. Bingo. So I am scientifically half cute.

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Speaker 1: You are very cute. I mean that's definitely. It's not

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Speaker 1: even up for debate. Really, I used to get called

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Speaker 1: cute by the ladies. Not handsome, but cute. There's definitely

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Speaker 1: I saw that. Um. Paul McCartney hated being known as

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Speaker 1: the cute beetle, probably for the same you know, the

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Speaker 1: same differences that you just mentioned, probably, but the the

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Speaker 1: like what you just said, this list you just you

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Speaker 1: just um you rattled off. That is Lawrence's kinkin schema

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Speaker 1: or baby schema or baby nous, which is basically like,

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Speaker 1: if you put all these things together, you have what

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Speaker 1: amounts to what we humans consider cute, and you can extrapolate,

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Speaker 1: like you were saying, not just onto babies, but onto

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Speaker 1: other animals and even onto like cartoon characters. Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: either have these things and you're regarded as cute, or

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Speaker 1: you don't and you're not exactly. Yeah, that's a really

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Speaker 1: good point that you can you can not only have this,

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Speaker 1: you can also lack it, and that that has that

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Speaker 1: modulates our response to whatever that thing is. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: it's also important to point out that this is these

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Speaker 1: are guidelines, scientific sort of guidelines and truisms, but not

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Speaker 1: across the board like some people. Beauty is in the

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Speaker 1: eye of the beholder and cuteness is sure, So some

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Speaker 1: people might look at a baby, I don't know, just

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Speaker 1: some sort of weird reptilian thing that has none of

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Speaker 1: these traits and think it's super cute as well. Right, Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is kind of subjective, but there does seem to

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Speaker 1: be um if not universal or widely tapped into sense

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Speaker 1: of what's cute and what's not. You know what, I mean, yeah, still,

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Speaker 1: let me rephrase that the person that thinks the baby

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Speaker 1: lizard that has none of these traits is cute, they

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Speaker 1: probably also think the panda is cute, right, you know

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Right, Yeah, they're probably not disgusted or

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Speaker 1: just totally turn off that dirty, ugly baby kitten. And

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Speaker 1: so so Lawrence was um. He compiled this list based

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Speaker 1: on his observations, and I guess from what I read,

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Speaker 1: like this whole study of cuteness is pretty young as

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Speaker 1: far as scientific investigation goes, So you know that we're

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Speaker 1: still figuring it out. It's still developing as it goes along.

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Speaker 1: Some of the study is involved or fairly suspect, but

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Speaker 1: there seems to be this this kind of general acceptance

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Speaker 1: of Lawrenz's k Kinkin schema, which is that it was

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Speaker 1: just it's so it's so obviously correct that from what

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Speaker 1: I read, some people just haven't even investigated, which is

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Speaker 1: good and bad. Um. Lawrence was a behaviorist and he

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Speaker 1: actually we met him first in our animal imprinting episode,

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Speaker 1: which was a really good one, but he studied that, um.

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Speaker 1: But he put this all together to study behaviors, and

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Speaker 1: what he was studying is exactly how babies UM get

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Speaker 1: adult humans who may not even be their parents to

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Speaker 1: respond to them in a way that um, that adult

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Speaker 1: wants to take care of that baby. And what he

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Speaker 1: what he came up with was this kinkin schema cuteness. Uh.

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Speaker 1: What he said unlocks um innate instincts in humans that

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Speaker 1: basically triggers like automatic behaviors like oh, I want to

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Speaker 1: make sure that you stay alive, so I'm going to

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Speaker 1: go find you some food that kind of stuff. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And it corresponds to helplessness at birth. There's a direct

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Speaker 1: correlation between um, how cute you look and how how

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Speaker 1: little you can get buy in your own In the

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Speaker 1: animal kingdom, um, most mammals are born very small, very helpless.

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Speaker 1: Uh many months sometimes weeks, sometimes months, sometimes years of

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Speaker 1: care before they can go off and kind of do

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Speaker 1: their own thing. That's called altricial. What to take to

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Speaker 1: being born helpless? You're altricial. Yeah, so if you're altricial,

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Speaker 1: you're probably almost more cute than an animal that is

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Speaker 1: born that can kind of run right out and do

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Speaker 1: things on their own, probably not as cute. That's precociale

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Speaker 1: altricial and precocial, right, and and the thing is is like,

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Speaker 1: if you step back, like it's just so easy to

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Speaker 1: just overlook this, and if you really start to think

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Speaker 1: about this, cuteness has been this adaptive, I guess, evolutionary

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Speaker 1: trait that's just been hiding and plain sight until Lawrence

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Speaker 1: really put his finger on it. But if you step

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Speaker 1: back and think about it, there's no there's no innate

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Speaker 1: or there's no reason that a baby has in and

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Speaker 1: of itself to evoke a response and a human even

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Speaker 1: its parents, um to want to take care of it,

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Speaker 1: but it needs that because it is an altricial species.

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Speaker 1: Humans are an altricial species. They'll they'll just die out

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Speaker 1: if you don't take care of a baby, and if

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Speaker 1: enough babies die out, eventually humanity dies out, the species

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Speaker 1: dies out. So it's an adaptation to make somebody want

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Speaker 1: to take care of you. And that is what Lawrence

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Speaker 1: figured out. That cuteness is that trigger that we find

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Speaker 1: babies cute and it makes us want to take care

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Speaker 1: of them. And that is one of the most mind

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Speaker 1: blowing things I know. Yeah, I mean if you look

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Speaker 1: at human babies. Human babies are born pretty early in

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Speaker 1: their development, like if um all things being equal. Human

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Speaker 1: babies should probably be born six months later than they are,

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Speaker 1: but they're not. Human babies come out very early. They

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Speaker 1: come out before their little fontanelles are even formed, and

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Speaker 1: they need a lot of care and uh, they're they're

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Speaker 1: born that Like, human babies are small so they can

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Speaker 1: fit out of the birth canal. Their little noses are

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Speaker 1: cartilage so they don't get broken on the way out.

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Speaker 1: Like you know, babies should have larger heads and should

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Speaker 1: have like that should but you know what I'm saying,

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Speaker 1: fully formed like strong noses, but they wouldn't be able

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Speaker 1: to to come out of a lady if that was

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Speaker 1: the case. Yeah, because our brains are have have developed

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Speaker 1: to be so big, and our craniums have developed in

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Speaker 1: in response to that that like we're evolutionarily speaking or

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Speaker 1: developmentally speaking, we're underdeveloped when we're born, even though we're

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Speaker 1: we would have been born at like a normal normal

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Speaker 1: gestation period for a human compared to other species. It's

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Speaker 1: like you're, this kid's out a little. This kid hasn't

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Speaker 1: baked fully, you know what I'm saying. And so that

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Speaker 1: really makes human babies even among you know, other mammals

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Speaker 1: that are altricial super dependent on caregivers to make sure

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Speaker 1: that it survives. Yeah. So, like a human baby's head

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Speaker 1: is really large compared to their body. Um, and these

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Speaker 1: are you know, these are some of the cuteness traits

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Speaker 1: that we mentioned early. On their eyes. You know, your

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Speaker 1: eyes don't really grow. Your eyes are about the same size.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that, did you. Yeah, that's why when

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Speaker 1: you look at some babies and you're like, look how

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Speaker 1: huge their eyes are, it's just because they're on a

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Speaker 1: little tiny face. It makes sense, But I just had

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Speaker 1: never known that you're born basically the size that they're

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Speaker 1: going to be when you grow up. I think if

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Speaker 1: you really work them out, they can beef up a

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Speaker 1: little bit. Though. We mentioned those tiny little noses super

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Speaker 1: cute and very bendy. Um, they're little baby cheeks and

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Speaker 1: everything soft so you can get out of that birth canal.

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Speaker 1: And you know, formula and mother's milk keep you kind

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Speaker 1: of chunky and full. Um. You know, nobody's gonna put

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Speaker 1: a baby on a diet, no good lord, no. Um.

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Speaker 1: The skin is very loosed and soft. H. So you know,

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Speaker 1: if you go through a big gross spurt, it doesn't

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Speaker 1: you know, split open sounds gross. Uh, and then you

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Speaker 1: know the way babies move, it's just just very cute there.

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Speaker 1: Babies are awkward and they're clumsy, and um, they don't

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Speaker 1: like have the definition to like manipulate these these muscle

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Speaker 1: groups very well. Yet Yeah, and it's awkward and gawky

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Speaker 1: and super cute. All of this stuff together is cute

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Speaker 1: to us. And it raises the question, like, did babies

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Speaker 1: evolved human babies evolved to fit our definition of cute

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Speaker 1: or did our definition Actually I've seen both. I've seen both.

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Speaker 1: So it makes sense that like our definition of what's

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Speaker 1: cute and what we respond to is cute would be

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Speaker 1: based on the average human baby. But you can also

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Speaker 1: take an average human baby and tweak, like digitally, um,

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Speaker 1: a picture of a baby and tweak it to maximum cuteness.

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Speaker 1: And so there's this other idea that Okay, maybe originally

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Speaker 1: our idea of cuteness was based on baby features, But

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Speaker 1: the cutest babies would um logically get the most response

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Speaker 1: and would be the most the most likely yeah, and

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Speaker 1: would be the most likely to survive and thrive and

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Speaker 1: go on to reproduce. So it is entirely possible that

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Speaker 1: we have a speed as a species have gotten cuter

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Speaker 1: over the over the eons because of selection of the

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Speaker 1: for the cutest babies. Well, and that's been critical to

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Speaker 1: our serve bible. Um. You know it's uh when you

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Speaker 1: see something like that, when you see a baby chick,

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Speaker 1: you your instinct is to pick it up and cradle

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Speaker 1: it and make sure you know that a tree branch

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Speaker 1: doesn't fall on it, right, And that's the same goes

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Speaker 1: for babies. Yeah, because they share a lot of the

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Speaker 1: same similarities, the same kin kin kin schema. I wish

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Speaker 1: that ken wasn't in there. I wish it was just

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Speaker 1: kin den schema. Call it that. Then. I don't want

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Speaker 1: to get things wrong all the time, and we do.

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Speaker 1: We do. It's usually not purposefully, you know, Okay, But um,

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Speaker 1: that same set of traits can apply to other animals.

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Speaker 1: It was like you were saying, you know, animals that

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Speaker 1: fall into that set of traits appear cute to us,

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Speaker 1: and we want to save them, we want to take

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Speaker 1: care of them. Um. Like a little baby giraffe has

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Speaker 1: huge eyes, its features are kind of small compared to

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Speaker 1: a larger adult draft which even adult drafts are awfully cute.

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Speaker 1: But one of the things that a baby draft is

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Speaker 1: going to get you with is hobbling around trying to

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Speaker 1: stand up that first time I hit you with those

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Speaker 1: little shaky legs look out. Yeah, and that reminds us

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Speaker 1: or reminds some very ancient part of our brain of

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Speaker 1: human infant, you know, like developing its motor skill. So

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Speaker 1: it seems like it's not like our brains are confused,

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Speaker 1: like you're not looking at a baby giraffe, like, look

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Speaker 1: at that baby human. I love it. It's just it

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Speaker 1: triggers the same part of the brain that seeing a

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Speaker 1: human infant does, um, because of that same set of characteristics. Yeah, Like,

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Speaker 1: there was a study I found on mental flaws from

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Speaker 1: two thousand nine where scientists reported that, uh, people in

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Speaker 1: the study that viewed really cute images of puppies and

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Speaker 1: kittens performed better in the game of Operation you know,

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Speaker 1: the kids game than people who saw less like that

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Speaker 1: saw pictures of grown up dogs and cats. So it

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Speaker 1: just innately triggers this care response. It's really really interesting. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And so what Lorenz called that innate releasers, that that

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Speaker 1: you see a cute baby and the cuteness acts as

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Speaker 1: an innate releaser, which triggers a set of inborn instincts

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Speaker 1: in every human to take care of that baby, and

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Speaker 1: that one apparently hasn't necessarily borne out. But there is

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Speaker 1: a lot of or there's an increasing amount of documentation

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Speaker 1: about how seeing something cute affects the brain. And I

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Speaker 1: propose that we take a commercial break and then come

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Speaker 1: back and talk about that afterwards. We'll be right back.

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Speaker 1: I think I has a commercial break. Sure, I now

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Speaker 1: it's in the in the survey, it's like an after

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Speaker 1: school special all of a sudden, so um, I think

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Speaker 1: before we dive into what you're talking about, I do

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Speaker 1: want to mention the wolf puppy thing. I thought it

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Speaker 1: was pretty interesting, is that there is an example of

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Speaker 1: a co evolved trait with the human brain that triggers

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Speaker 1: that cuteness response when you look at wolves wild wolves apparently,

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Speaker 1: and these were predogs. Basically, Um, they don't have this

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Speaker 1: muscle called the uh. Here we go with some Latin.

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Speaker 1: I guess uh leabator angouli oculi. Mettie Alice just made

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Speaker 1: a demon appere Oh my god, Um, this muscle they

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Speaker 1: don't have in their eyebrows, and apparently that is the

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Speaker 1: muscle that can make what we think of as puppy

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Speaker 1: dog eyes. Dogs that came later did of all that muscle,

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Speaker 1: and then we're bred for it because it made people

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Speaker 1: melt inside. Uh so that's why wolves, which is interesting,

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Speaker 1: like wolves have that sort of scowl and they can't

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Speaker 1: help it. But then I looked at wolf puppy pictures

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Speaker 1: and it's pretty cute. But maybe it's not in the eyes.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, I don't know what it is either,

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Speaker 1: but that I think that raises a really good question

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Speaker 1: that also kind of points out it like this, this

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Speaker 1: research is still very young, and there's contradictory information coming

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Speaker 1: in and a lot of it is just based on

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Speaker 1: intuition and that kind of thing. But there are, like

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Speaker 1: you said, there's that there are people walking around who think,

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Speaker 1: like that baby lizard is super cute. You know what

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Speaker 1: I'm saying, Like it it's not entirely universal, and you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe those wolf puppies have some other traits that have

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Speaker 1: nothing to do with the eyes that that are hijacking

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Speaker 1: your brain. The point that stands out to me is

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Speaker 1: that that that caregiving instinct that Lorenz pointed out, or

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Speaker 1: whatever whatever weird brain pathway we have, um, that's triggered

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Speaker 1: by seeing something cute, is that it extends beyond humans.

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Speaker 1: And I think that that kind of that that makes

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Speaker 1: humanity as a species like that much greater in my opinion,

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Speaker 1: that like that caregiving impulse can extend beyond humans. And

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Speaker 1: I mean that explains pets right there. Like, I don't

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Speaker 1: think we would have pets if that wasn't true, you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, we'd have like guard dogs or something still,

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Speaker 1: but you know, not a pet. There would be German shepherds.

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Speaker 1: There'd be nothing but and they'd all be mean as

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Speaker 1: as snakes. And we probably have snakes too. That rode

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Speaker 1: the German shepherds. They still wouldn't be pets. Baby snakes

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Speaker 1: not so cute. There's also that weird thing where something

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Speaker 1: is so ugly it's cute as a young thing. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so that's a Japanese term. We'll talk about kawaie later.

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Speaker 1: But there's something called chemo kawaii, which is called gross cute. Interesting. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they they've they've got it. That's something they're like the Germans,

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Speaker 1: but further east, they have like a name and a

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Speaker 1: term in idea for everything. You know. All right, we'll

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Speaker 1: put a pin in that because we did promise the

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Speaker 1: science of cute. So we're gonna have to look at um,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna have to look at the brain and actually

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Speaker 1: what's going on there. And they've done that of course. UM.

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Speaker 1: They've put people in the Wonder machine and they have

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Speaker 1: shown people pictures of baby faces to see what lights up.

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Speaker 1: And when that happens, you get a really strong immediate

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Speaker 1: response and what's called the orbitofrontal cortex, which is where

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Speaker 1: we regulate our emotions and our pleasure, and it's a

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Speaker 1: really really fast response, um one seven of a second. Um.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't take long when you see that baby or

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Speaker 1: that puppy or whatever you don't it doesn't take you

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Speaker 1: long to to immediately think, I need to care for

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Speaker 1: that thing and hold that thing. Yeah, Because so that

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Speaker 1: orbitofrontal cortex UM apparently has something to do with the

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Speaker 1: reward system. So your attention is captured very quickly and

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Speaker 1: you get a little burst of of pleasure from seeing

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Speaker 1: that that cute baby. And then there's another thing too

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Speaker 1: that that that came out of that two thousand nine

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Speaker 1: study using operation that all of a sudden, you're attention

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Speaker 1: is very much focused and you can complete tasks um

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Speaker 1: much better or at least remarkably better. Um, then you

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Speaker 1: could without seeing something cute. So it really does suggest

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Speaker 1: we have this inborn pathway to respond to something cute

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Speaker 1: in a pleasurable way with warm feelings. Um, that trigger

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Speaker 1: an ability a greater or more focused ability to do

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Speaker 1: something like, for example, care for or feed a baby

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Speaker 1: or that kind of thing that's that seems to be

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Speaker 1: borne out like Lawrence's innate release, or seems to be

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Speaker 1: being discovered um by neurology right now. Which is interesting though,

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Speaker 1: because caring for a baby is not, in my experience,

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Speaker 1: something you need that kind of focus for. It's not

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Speaker 1: like putting together a little model house with tiny pieces

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Speaker 1: of furniture. Um, it's just like keep this thing alive. Right,

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Speaker 1: But maybe maybe that's like, um, rather than being like,

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Speaker 1: oh you know, I think i'll I'd rather break the

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Speaker 1: law of the law and instead and you just stop

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Speaker 1: feeding the baby leaves you know what I'm saying, Like

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Speaker 1: your your attention to the task at hand. He's a

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Speaker 1: little more focused, so you're less distracted. Yeah, that's what

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Speaker 1: kind of focus. Sure. Yeah, Luckily it doesn't take much

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Speaker 1: brains because it's a lot of non smart parents out there.

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Speaker 1: That is true. Um So in that response, that speedy

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Speaker 1: response in the orbitofrontal cortex when you see that baby,

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Speaker 1: men and women both have that same spike. But I

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Speaker 1: think women report stronger caregiving, which they chalk up to

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Speaker 1: just gender roles basically and not necessarily anything to do

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Speaker 1: with the brain itself. Yeah, because the same areas light

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Speaker 1: up for men and women, I guess to the same degree.

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Speaker 1: It's just self reported as different, right right. And then

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Speaker 1: apparently also like this, this is not just um parents

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Speaker 1: who experienced this, like a human being will or a

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Speaker 1: typical human being will experience this. Yeah, I mean that's

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Speaker 1: the thing where like, as an adoptive parent, you know

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Speaker 1: this is uh, my daughter is not my seed. Um,

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Speaker 1: but I can't piplical it. Um but I can't like

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Speaker 1: I have nothing to base it on. But I can't

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Speaker 1: imagine a stronger connection or a stronger instinct to care

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Speaker 1: give and um so it's a It's an important trait

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Speaker 1: clearly because like you've seen movies where uh, people find

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Speaker 1: like a baby like abandoned by the dumpster and that

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Speaker 1: you know, you run out and you know, I suppose

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Speaker 1: some people might just say call it in and say Hey,

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Speaker 1: there's a baby over here. I'm not going near it,

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Speaker 1: but a humans inclination is to run over and pick

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Speaker 1: that baby up and wrap it up in something warm

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Speaker 1: and then maybe call the cops or whatever. Right, and

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Speaker 1: like you said, like run over there like that, like

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Speaker 1: it an urgent thing that that your brain would just

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Speaker 1: be like get over there, right, the helpless thing out

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Speaker 1: there by a dumpster, let's go get it. Yeah. Um,

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Speaker 1: that apparently would come probably more from um the baby's cry,

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Speaker 1: which I guess also a nights like the same kind

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Speaker 1: of um pathway as cuteness does, but it's a different

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Speaker 1: it's slightly different. There's not necessarily a reward. It's more

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Speaker 1: like urgency. And they call that a biological siren, which

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Speaker 1: which would you know, get you over there really quickly,

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Speaker 1: But it's not necessarily because you saw you know, you

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Speaker 1: you thought about how cute the baby is in those

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Speaker 1: swaddling clothes. Right. Uh. Sound is definitely important. Like that

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Speaker 1: same study, if you hear babies laughter or even as

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Speaker 1: the smell of a baby, you your brain lights up

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Speaker 1: in the same way. Yeah. So like that, we're presented

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Speaker 1: with the entire cute package of everything that's great about babies, sounds, smell.

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Speaker 1: They are really deeply manipulative. I think is is what

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Speaker 1: you're meant to take away from this episode. They are

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Speaker 1: just tiny little monsters saying like, take care of me

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Speaker 1: for eighteen years. That's right, and possibly beyond. If I'm

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Speaker 1: gen X exactly, it was a gen X or millennials.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I feel like there were plenty of

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Speaker 1: gen xers that lived in the Bay, right, you're totally right,

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Speaker 1: or maybe that's every generation, but we weren't coddled as much.

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Speaker 1: Oh boy, you're gonna get us canceled the boy. Uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: So let's move on from that. Oh wait, here's another thing.

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Speaker 1: And this is the satisfinding Ever, when they did the study,

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Speaker 1: um that that brain activity was diminished when they were

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Speaker 1: shown baby faces that were had some sort of facial disruption,

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Speaker 1: like a cleft palate. And that is really one of

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Speaker 1: the saddest things you can imagine hearing. Yeah, because I

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Speaker 1: mean that would that would account for you know what

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Speaker 1: I was talking about earlier about how cuteness is selected

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Speaker 1: for that there's this like by no one's fault of

425
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 1: their own, but just through you know, the evolutionary process

426
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,920
Speaker 1: of these these neural connections that were born that are

427
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 1: ready to make like wanting to respond to something cute.

428
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,640
Speaker 1: If you're presented with something that doesn't quite line up

429
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 1: with that king Kin schema, Um, that baby is going

430
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 1: to have a much harder time getting that same response

431
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 1: from from somebody than just a traditionally cute baby. Well,

432
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 1: it's it's extraordinarily sad. I think we need to do

433
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,360
Speaker 1: an episode on cleft palates too. That that stood out

434
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 1: to me that we haven't done that yet. Yeah, or

435
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 1: even worse than you know, in ancient times, those babies

436
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,920
Speaker 1: would be walked out to the woods and left, you know, yeah,

437
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 1: for sure, you know. Um, Carl Lawrence apparently said that

438
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 1: the Quby doll, you know, our cup mayonnaise, So the

439
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 1: doll that that's based on if you take a look

440
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,679
Speaker 1: at its face, Um, that in Lawrence's opinion, that was

441
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:46,640
Speaker 1: the maximum exaggeration that you could reach of Kinkin schema

442
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 1: before violating it, and that afterward what was beyond it

443
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 1: was that wasn't coined at the time, but what he

444
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 1: was talking about was basically an uncanny valley like there's

445
00:26:57,760 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 1: your brain would start to be like, wait, there's something,

446
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 1: so thing is somewhat out of order here. UM, So

447
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 1: it's weird. There's like a really apparently there's a set

448
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,719
Speaker 1: a package of traits that make up what is considered cute,

449
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 1: and straying outside of that, UM just kind of violates

450
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 1: it in some weird way. It violates like this this

451
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 1: pathway that we're we seem to be pre programmed to have.

452
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: I didn't know mayonnaise was going to make an appearance.

453
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,679
Speaker 1: I I did because I saw the cuteie thing, But

454
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 1: before that I had no idea either. So cuteness is

455
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: going to activate other parts of the brain. It's just

456
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 1: not that superspeedy response that you get in the orbitofrontal cortex. UM.

457
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 1: So if you're a parent and you have a brain, UM,

458
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 1: you're gonna go undergo a really kind of slow change. UM.

459
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,159
Speaker 1: As you parent and as you take care of that baby,

460
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 1: in bond with that baby, as they go into infancy. UM,

461
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,160
Speaker 1: you're gonna still have that trigger of cuteness, but it's

462
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,360
Speaker 1: just going to be a slower response and more complex

463
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 1: as far as your actual brain activity goes. Yeah, and

464
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 1: supposedly that co evolves with the cuteness of a baby,

465
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 1: like a newborn baby is just that. But like you

466
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,200
Speaker 1: look at a baby some six months that same baby, Yeah,

467
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:18,920
Speaker 1: you have to admit, it's pretty infrequent for a baby

468
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 1: to be cute right out of the womb. Yeah, I

469
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: mean generally they're little alien lizard type creatures. Sure, but

470
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 1: wait six months, and that same baby is going to

471
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 1: look awfully cute. So and within right, and within that

472
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 1: six months, um, you're going to have developed more sophisticated responses,

473
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 1: caretaking responses to that baby's cuteness. Um, it's pretty interesting

474
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 1: that like they both start to gel around the same time,

475
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 1: the babies start to hit pique cuteness and the caregiving

476
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 1: stuff becomes more and more sophisticated. It goes from I

477
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,719
Speaker 1: need to keep this baby alive to um, you know

478
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 1: what college is this baby? I'm gonna get this baby

479
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 1: through college kind of stuff. You start thinking about that, right,

480
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: and that sort of brings back what we talked about

481
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 1: earlier as UM, like that that empathetic, compassionate response when

482
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 1: it's not even your child, Yes, when it's not even

483
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 1: from the same species. And and like you were saying,

484
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: you know, people tend to rate um, the species that

485
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 1: are most altricial as the cutest because they need the

486
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 1: most help. So that pathway can be hijacked by humans,

487
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 1: human babies and other species as well, and by people

488
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 1: who are trying to sell you stuff. As we'll see.

489
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:43,959
Speaker 1: That's very true. Break, Yes, all right, we're gonna take

490
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 1: your break and talk about qute aggression, something that we're

491
00:29:47,040 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: pretty familiar with right after this. All right, So I've

492
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: talked before in the past about my wife Emily, and uh,

493
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 1: when she sees puppies and babies and other cute little things,

494
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 1: she uh, she says stuff like I want to I

495
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 1: want to punch that baby in the face. I want

496
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 1: to squeeze the life out of it. I want to

497
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 1: I want to eat that puppy. Like some things that

498
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 1: sound genuinely horrific, Maybe not, I want to punch that

499
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 1: baby in the face. That's a different I've seen that somewhere,

500
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: but it's a thing, and it's not just her, it's

501
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 1: an actual thing. It's called cute aggression. When you see

502
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 1: something and you say, you know, I want to put

503
00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 1: that puppy on a plate and eat it, which is,

504
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: like you said, it's very weird when you step back

505
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: and think about it, um, and it actually it's of

506
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 1: a very recent um investigation, like I think two thirteen

507
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: is the earliest I saw um. And one of the

508
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 1: people who are leading the charge into studying qute aggression

509
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: is a Clemson psychologist named Oriana aragon Um, and she

510
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 1: and some of her colleagues have really kind of are

511
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 1: are are establishing this field of cute aggression. And the

512
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 1: reason why aragon is a pretty good social psychologist to

513
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 1: be investigating this is because her specialty is dimorphous expressions,

514
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 1: which is contradictory emotional indicators that don't really seem to

515
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 1: go together, but do because it's just so common, like

516
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 1: tears of joy um or nervous laughter, that kind of stuff,

517
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 1: And it seems that que aggression kind of falls under

518
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 1: that same umbrella. Yeah, and it's interesting because you say, sure, great,

519
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 1: qute aggression. We've got a name for it that doesn't

520
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: really explain it though, and it's explained kind of like

521
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:12,479
Speaker 1: nervous laughter or tears of joy. It may be a

522
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 1: way of regulating something that's just too overwhelming emotionally. So

523
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 1: when they study qute aggression, they show people the cutest

524
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 1: pictures of the cutest things, see how the brain responds

525
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 1: and people who have the really biggest cute aggressive response, UM,

526
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: their brains are lighting up, but your reward system is

527
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: also lighting up at the same time, right, but it's

528
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 1: like an overwhelming reward response, like you're just uh, it's intolerable. Yeah,

529
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 1: And so the idea is that your brain brings you

530
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 1: down from that um by implementing like a not complimentary

531
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 1: what's the opposite of complimentary m you're a big jerk,

532
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,479
Speaker 1: that kind of UM, that kind of emotion like anger

533
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 1: or aggression or hostility or something like that, to balance

534
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: it out and to bring you back down. Because it

535
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 1: makes sense that if you were just sitting there experiencing

536
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 1: overwhelming UM cute overload like you would, you might not

537
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 1: ever get around defeating that baby. You might just be

538
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 1: sitting there like with your tongue hanging out the side

539
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 1: of your mouth, drooling. Yeah. It's interesting because like a

540
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 1: lot of times, and I've heard a lot of other

541
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 1: people say this, but like Emily will say like I

542
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 1: just want to squeeze that baby, and that's followed up

543
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 1: with I can't even take it, Like I just can't

544
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 1: even take it with this cuteness, Like that's that's literally true,

545
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 1: Like your brain can't even take it. So I thought

546
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 1: it was cute. Aragon Um came up with a way

547
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 1: to measure cute aggression UM by using bubble wrap. This

548
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 1: I didn't quite understand this. She would give um bubble

549
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 1: wrap two people and show them different pictures, and the

550
00:33:55,600 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: pictures that rated the highest in cuteness UM evoked or

551
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: led to the largest number of bubbles pops. So the

552
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 1: idea is like, if you see something cute, pop bubbles

553
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,240
Speaker 1: or just like here, hold this, and you just find

554
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 1: yourself popping them. I don't know. I don't know that.

555
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 1: I don't know actually to tell you the truth, UM,

556
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 1: I think yeah. I think it's more it's meant to

557
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: be like an unconscious thing, Like you're not supposed to

558
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 1: be like, well, this is an eighty bubble kitty, you know,

559
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 1: nothing like that. Or it's just like you look down

560
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 1: you're like, oh my god, there's no more bubbles left

561
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 1: this that that cat was so cute kind of thing. UM.

562
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 1: I saw another explanation for Q diggression in that it's

563
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 1: a response to a frustrated desire for caregiving. So where um,

564
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:48,399
Speaker 1: where you want to go punch that baby in the face.

565
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,919
Speaker 1: But you know, you'll spend a significant amount of time

566
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 1: in jail if you actually do that, right, Like, that's

567
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:56,879
Speaker 1: that's where that would come a from like like that,

568
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 1: you can't do that. It's not your baby to go

569
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 1: snug goal and cuddle and take care of you can't.

570
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 1: You have to do it from a far exactly, So

571
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 1: you have to do it from afar. So it it

572
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 1: it comes out in this mixture of cute response and

573
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 1: aggression or aggressive words or uh you know that kind

574
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 1: of thing well, and that also kind of dovetails with

575
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: the cute sadness, which is I guess Aragon coined that

576
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 1: term as well. Is where um, you see a puppy

577
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 1: in a window and you go oh, no or ah

578
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 1: or make a frowny face. That's when you see a

579
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 1: lot when you see something really cute. And her theory

580
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 1: is that kind of like what you're just saying, like

581
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: that puppy is is uh is in the crate at

582
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: the adoption place and you can't get to it, or

583
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 1: it's just walking down the street with somebody and you're

584
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 1: driving your car and you can't get to it. So

585
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 1: you're expressing a kind of a frustration that you can't

586
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,919
Speaker 1: get out of the car and squeeze the puppy, right,

587
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:57,840
Speaker 1: so you have to squeeze your sphincter instead. But I

588
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 1: guess it comes out as disappointment though, yeah, yeah, and

589
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,840
Speaker 1: it's it would seem to be frustrated, a response to

590
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 1: frustrated attempts at caregiving or a frustrated desire to caregive

591
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 1: because you see something cute and your caregiving instinct is

592
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 1: triggered or whatever you want to call it if you

593
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,359
Speaker 1: don't don't agree with instinct, but there's nothing you can

594
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 1: do about it because you're driving and that things going

595
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 1: the other way, so you can't do anything to to

596
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 1: take care of it. So you have to get that

597
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 1: out somehow. And it seems like anger and aggression is

598
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,320
Speaker 1: a good way for it to make it subside quickly.

599
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:32,799
Speaker 1: But again again I really want to point out here

600
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: this is this is intuitive stuff. This is not stuff

601
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 1: where it's like this study backs the sub and this

602
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,360
Speaker 1: study backs this up. From what I've seen, every single

603
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 1: study in cuteness and cute aggression, uh, involves about a

604
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty college undergrads as your your your study population,

605
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 1: and they're popping bubble wrap and stuff like that like,

606
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 1: it's still very early in its research, but it does

607
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 1: make a lot of sense, you know, But that doesn't

608
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 1: necessarily mean that's that's accurate. Just take that and take

609
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 1: that with a grain of salt whatever that means. And

610
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 1: it's also, um, I'm not knocking the study, but it's

611
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 1: also you know, let's be honest, it's not the most

612
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 1: important thing in the world. No, No, it's like interesting

613
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 1: to understand. It makes for good reading on an internet article,

614
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:27,760
Speaker 1: but uh, it's not driving Like, it's not solving a problem,

615
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. I suddenly feel like we're

616
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,359
Speaker 1: standing in the middle of a vast glass house and

617
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 1: we have rocks in our hands right now. Oh boy,

618
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 1: I think it's fun to talk about. I mean, that's

619
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: what makes I mean, this is perfect podcast spodder for sure. Um,

620
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:45,879
Speaker 1: But like I'm curious that this could be applied at all.

621
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think maybe it's just one of

622
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 1: those things where it's like, now we understand that it's documented,

623
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:53,840
Speaker 1: it's understood, so we understand humans a little more, and

624
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 1: then maybe it'll open some door to some other thing

625
00:37:56,040 --> 00:38:00,200
Speaker 1: that we realize was connected that. You know that. Yeah,

626
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 1: but I totally agree with what you're saying. Yeah, but

627
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:05,720
Speaker 1: I think you've pulled me any other direction. Nobel prize,

628
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 1: oh good God to send it their way. Good. So

629
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:11,720
Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier about using the stuff to sell things,

630
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,799
Speaker 1: and that is for sure true. Um, you can't. I mean,

631
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 1: you look at any Pixar or Disney cartoon or anime. Certainly, Um,

632
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 1: you're gonna see round babies and you're gonna see huge eyes.

633
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:30,240
Speaker 1: When you see pamphlets that are trying to sell stuff

634
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 1: or or try to get you to donate to an

635
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 1: animal cause or a children's foundation. Um, they're probably gonna

636
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 1: put a baby or a puppy on that cover that

637
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:45,359
Speaker 1: has the biggest, roundest face and eyes. It's manipulative, Um,

638
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,800
Speaker 1: but used for good generally. Yeah, yeah, totally. It's almost

639
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:52,240
Speaker 1: like um, using music in the background of an ad,

640
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:58,240
Speaker 1: you know, like it's purposefully hijacking a very ancient neural

641
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:02,840
Speaker 1: pathway that basically all humans have to get an emotional

642
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 1: response out of you, a positive emotional response. And it

643
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 1: might have nothing to do with with what they're trying

644
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 1: to sell, but you're you're now associating pleasurable, warm feeling

645
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 1: with you know, Mr Sparkle dishwashing detergent, you know when

646
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 1: really it's just a a joint venture of Matsumura Fish

647
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 1: Works and Tomorrow Heavy Manufacturing concern. Um. Like when they've

648
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,840
Speaker 1: done um, they've done studies and like anti smoking campaigns

649
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 1: for teenagers, and they respond more to cartoon characters that

650
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 1: are cute, which sounds a lot like Joe Campbell. If

651
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 1: you ask me, it's like the opposite. That's true. Um,

652
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,320
Speaker 1: but it does make sense like a teens might respond

653
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:48,840
Speaker 1: to a list here is like a penguin and a

654
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 1: jacket or a polar bear. Then you know some adult

655
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 1: human like pointing their finger at you like John, can

656
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 1: you imagine to the teens don't smoke? Right? So? Um? Yeah,

657
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 1: it also makes you think, like you know, since so

658
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 1: many like cute toys, or so many toys are cute. Um,

659
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 1: when you're buying like a plush animal has, are you

660
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 1: responding almost in like an insane way to your cute

661
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 1: caregiving response? Just being manipulated and like you're going to

662
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:27,799
Speaker 1: take that stuff to animal home and and and give

663
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 1: it care because it's just been activated in you? Is

664
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 1: that really? Is that? That seems to be what's going

665
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 1: on when you when you're when you buy like a

666
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 1: toy like that. That's interesting because then if you know,

667
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 1: if you see people walking around like that, you're like, oh,

668
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 1: well you've you've just been manipulated. Congratulations kind of thing.

669
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 1: But also you can make the case to um. And

670
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 1: I read a guy uh something by a guy named

671
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 1: Gary Jenosco who is the Canada Research Chair and Techno

672
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 1: Culture at lake Head University in thunder Bay, Ontario, and

673
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 1: he argues that UM that same thing that the commodification

674
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 1: of cute, uh say, like by Disney. He also argues

675
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:15,239
Speaker 1: that National Geographic Magazine was big into getting people in

676
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 1: involved in caring about animals and nature. They really use cuteness,

677
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 1: especially in like the fifties and sixties. I guess um

678
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 1: that it forms our understanding of things in a very

679
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:32,239
Speaker 1: specific way, which is this thing is cute. It's like

680
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 1: a toy to me. I want to pick it up

681
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 1: and carry it around and love it and hug on it.

682
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 1: But in doing that you really miss out on a

683
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:46,280
Speaker 1: lot of the um the individual um personality of whatever

684
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 1: that animal is. Like you like you trade respect for infantalism,

685
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 1: right and like that. That that really stood out to

686
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 1: me because I have to remind myself that Momo is

687
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 1: like this sncient individual entity who deserves respect and to

688
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 1: be treated with respect. I just picked up any time

689
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 1: she you know, she looks at me a certain way

690
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 1: and it sets off my cuteness response. Like I've really

691
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 1: had to grapple with that. And luckily, you mean's like

692
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 1: really aware of that because she hasn't She's always been

693
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:19,319
Speaker 1: a very small person and she us got get picked

694
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:21,760
Speaker 1: up all the time, so she's like identifies with Mama

695
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 1: on that level. Um, And it's been like really an

696
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 1: exercise and restraint. Sometimes it's just be like, no, I've

697
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 1: just got to treat Mama like she doesn't want to

698
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:32,360
Speaker 1: be picked up right now kind of thing. You know.

699
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 1: But I thought Canascar Jenascar really made a good point

700
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 1: that we we miss a lot of like what makes

701
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,240
Speaker 1: an animal and animal in in favor of just seeing

702
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:44,800
Speaker 1: it as something cute and a kind of a plaything

703
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:48,759
Speaker 1: in a way. Yeah, and if like there's no clear

704
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:52,880
Speaker 1: reminder that, um, you know, I've always had dogs and

705
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,360
Speaker 1: multiple dogs and love dogs, but when you see a

706
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:59,280
Speaker 1: dog like you know, go after a squirrel and catch

707
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:01,600
Speaker 1: it and eat it or something, that these are the

708
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 1: reminders like these are these are animals, you know, like

709
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 1: the same cute dog will also you know, eat poop

710
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 1: out of it's a but if it could right or

711
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 1: eat your face if you died on the couch and

712
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 1: it was locked in the house with in a second. Sure, Um,

713
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 1: so we probably shouldn't finish until we talk about kauaie culture. Yeah,

714
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 1: this is the Japanese culture that is um well, this

715
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 1: says it best. Maybe the greatest pop culture expression of cute.

716
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:33,880
Speaker 1: You think Pikachu think um like pop singers dressed as

717
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 1: a little sort of pigtailed schoolgirls. Uh. It's it's a

718
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 1: very very big trend in Japan. It's huge, Like everybody

719
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 1: has a cute mascot, Hello kiddies everywhere. It's just enormous.

720
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 1: And apparently it kind of like grew and evolved and

721
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 1: morphed over time, starting with this um student protest movement

722
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 1: in the sixties, where like the Japanese kids like um

723
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 1: just to sided, they didn't want to go to class anymore.

724
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 1: They sat around and read manga comic books instead and

725
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 1: kind of regress to back to childhood. And then that

726
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 1: kind of developed in the seventies into a trend for

727
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 1: cute see bubbly handwriting that led to Hello Kitty, and

728
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 1: then weirdly, it also made an appearance um as Uh

729
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:26,279
Speaker 1: what is it Burrico women, which is very childlike. Um

730
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:31,879
Speaker 1: women who adopted this this kind of demeanor UM two

731
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:36,319
Speaker 1: number one, uh cut off any sense of threat that

732
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 1: they presented when they entered the workforce, but also to

733
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:43,960
Speaker 1: kind of keep um unwanted advances from their male colleagues.

734
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:47,239
Speaker 1: At Bay two, they entered the workforce as if they

735
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:50,880
Speaker 1: were young kids, little girls, giggly and all that kind

736
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:52,759
Speaker 1: of stuff. And this is like a persona that they

737
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 1: adopted that eventually became this trend, this cuteness trend that's

738
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:00,360
Speaker 1: like everywhere in Japan. I never thought about the bubble letters.

739
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:04,399
Speaker 1: That's so interesting because I've always sort of wondered, like

740
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 1: why elementary school girls. It seems like I would write

741
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 1: in those big, juicy round letters. Yeah, it makes sense,

742
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 1: it does. But that was apparently where Hawaii culture came

743
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 1: from originally as a handwriting thing. Interesting. Yeah, I was

744
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:26,240
Speaker 1: curious here at the end, I was like, has science

745
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:29,800
Speaker 1: proven what the cutest animals are? And I did find

746
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 1: something from list Verse and Jonathan Cantor the top ten

747
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:36,799
Speaker 1: cutest animals in the world, according to science. But I

748
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:39,359
Speaker 1: see nothing in the article about how science proved this,

749
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 1: literally nothing, but I figured i'd read it just for frenzies.

750
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 1: Number ten is most baby mammals, okay. Number nine is

751
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:52,400
Speaker 1: the slow Loris. You ever see those things? You should

752
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 1: look at some of these. In fact, I'm gonna go

753
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:58,560
Speaker 1: ahead and text you number one right now because and

754
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:00,160
Speaker 1: I guess i'll just send it to you and are

755
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: since she's on our most recent thread, she'll be like,

756
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:06,319
Speaker 1: what the heck is this all right? Coming your way? So?

757
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:10,719
Speaker 1: Number eight is the mere cat, which I think mere

758
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 1: cancelok a little sinister personally. Yeah, I can see that

759
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:17,439
Speaker 1: because of the like there they got the bandit masks on. Yeah. Uh.

760
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:21,360
Speaker 1: Number seven is the koala. Yeah, did you just Lauras

761
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 1: looks like, no, that's not a Lauras that I sent you.

762
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:26,799
Speaker 1: Are you looking at Laris? Well? What is this what

763
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 1: I sent you? We'll just put a pen in. It's

764
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:31,799
Speaker 1: number one, okay, Yeah, I can see that. Number six

765
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:38,480
Speaker 1: is the Flapjack and Dumbo octopode. Okay, um, piglets. Number

766
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:43,400
Speaker 1: five match the fennic fox. Number four, that's the fox

767
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 1: with those huge ears and make those great sounds. The

768
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 1: red pandas number three, the panda bear, the white panda,

769
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 1: black and white pant is nowhere on this list. Weird,

770
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:54,959
Speaker 1: this guy's way off. This must have been a list

771
00:46:55,000 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 1: from Jimmy Science, his roommate. According to Jimmy Science, I

772
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 1: think you mean James B. Science, number two with sea

773
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 1: otters and then number one. I don't know how I've

774
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:09,000
Speaker 1: lived my whole life without knowing that this thing existed.

775
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:14,440
Speaker 1: But the quoca q u o k k A from Australia.

776
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 1: It's a small marsupial uh same family as a kangaroo,

777
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 1: apparently in southwestern Australia. And that picture I sent you,

778
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:29,440
Speaker 1: my friend, just google smiling quoca and you'll see this

779
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 1: one picture of this quoca literally jumping hands out, smiling

780
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:37,840
Speaker 1: at the camera lens like give me a hug, Like,

781
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 1: give me a hug. This is and I think, I mean,

782
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 1: n you know, they said it's because they look like

783
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 1: they're smiling. Obviously is one of the big reasons. But

784
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 1: almost every picture you look at a quoca, it's got

785
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 1: this little smile. It's unbelievable. Hey, I have to say,

786
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 1: based on the screenshot you you need to charge your

787
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:59,279
Speaker 1: phone soon. Uh yeah, and that was even earlier, So

788
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:02,680
Speaker 1: I get that same stress because I'm I'm generally at

789
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 1: least guy. Yeah, and so when I see people do

790
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 1: screenshots and as that read, yeah, boy, I can't even

791
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 1: take it so um to finish up, chuck that the

792
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:18,760
Speaker 1: converse of what you're talking about the cutest animals, um,

793
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:22,279
Speaker 1: the fact that they exist also kind of implies that

794
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 1: there are non cute animals that exist and that they're

795
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 1: less likely to get our attention. Um. And as a result,

796
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 1: there is a kind of tongue in cheek. But I

797
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:33,319
Speaker 1: also get the impression kind of serious group called the

798
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 1: Ugly Animal Preservation Society whose mascot is the blob Fish,

799
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 1: which makes a lot of sense, and their slogan is

800
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:44,960
Speaker 1: we can't all be pandas I love that. Yeah, So

801
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 1: they're looking out for the ugly animals that we're going

802
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 1: to wipe out because they're not cute. Well, I know

803
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 1: that is a big deal when it comes to conservation,

804
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 1: is that that people can conservations have a much harder

805
00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:01,400
Speaker 1: time getting money and stuff. And we talked about it

806
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 1: in our Zoos episode. Yeah, like that's why they lead

807
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:07,840
Speaker 1: with giraffes and elephants and stuff like that. Was that

808
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 1: the episode? I know we talked about it before and

809
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:12,359
Speaker 1: they were like, look, man, just leave us alone. This

810
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 1: is the important stuff because it saves the other stuff. Yeah, exactly.

811
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:23,960
Speaker 1: That blobfish that looks like man, yeah, ugly cute maybe yeah,

812
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:28,799
Speaker 1: chemo kawaii. If kawaii sounds familiar, that's probably because you

813
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 1: heard it at the very beginning of the Quin Stefani

814
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:34,359
Speaker 1: song Haull of back Girl, where she sees a bunch

815
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 1: of hard juku girls in Japan and goes, kawai nice.

816
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 1: That blobfish look like look like it's constantly saying okay,

817
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 1: I know they shouldn't call it that or fish. The

818
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:51,400
Speaker 1: blobfish definitely works sooner man um, Well, since we have

819
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 1: wrapped it up with the old blobfish, if you want

820
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 1: to know more about the science of cute, just start

821
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:02,520
Speaker 1: looking at cute pictures of the coo ooka. Sure, that's

822
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 1: a great place to start. And since Chuck said sure,

823
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:11,239
Speaker 1: that means it's time for a listener mail. I'm gonna

824
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:14,319
Speaker 1: call this. I'm getting called out here and it's something

825
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:16,279
Speaker 1: I haven't thought about. I got called out by a

826
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:19,560
Speaker 1: couple of people for different reasons for saying, uh, this

827
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:22,239
Speaker 1: phrase you know unless you live under a rock that

828
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 1: you know blank. One person said, Hey, that just makes

829
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:28,319
Speaker 1: me feel dumb because I didn't know about one of

830
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:30,879
Speaker 1: these things. Sure, I think that's the point, right, that's

831
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:33,000
Speaker 1: your intent. No, I don't want to make anyone to

832
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:35,840
Speaker 1: feel bad, but this is a different kind of response,

833
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 1: and uh, well worth reading. Hey, guys, making my way

834
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:41,799
Speaker 1: through a backlog log of episodes, and I noticed the

835
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:43,399
Speaker 1: thing that seems to pop up from time to time

836
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 1: and your descriptions of popular culture and products like hang

837
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 1: gliding at a sketch and Rubik's Cube. You make comments

838
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:52,239
Speaker 1: like and if you don't know what one of these

839
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:54,839
Speaker 1: is or looks like, get out from under your rock

840
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:57,879
Speaker 1: and go look up a picture. Uh, someone who has

841
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 1: been blind since birth? Though, my problem isn't that I've

842
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:04,279
Speaker 1: been living under a rock, but rather the pictures to

843
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:08,680
Speaker 1: me are worth zero words. Yeah, I really got me good.

844
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:10,840
Speaker 1: I grew up in the eighties, so everyone had a

845
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 1: Rubik's Cube, and I played with my fair share of them,

846
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:15,879
Speaker 1: even though I couldn't solve them for many things in life. Though,

847
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:19,160
Speaker 1: if I haven't physically touched it or had it described

848
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 1: to me. I only have the faintest idea of what

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00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:24,320
Speaker 1: it looks like. In fact, I was a music music

850
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:27,480
Speaker 1: education major in college, and it wasn't until my sophomore

851
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:30,520
Speaker 1: year in age nineteen that I touched a brass instrument

852
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 1: for the very first time. Uh, the French horn still

853
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:36,560
Speaker 1: fascinates me. I've enjoyed listening to your show for years,

854
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 1: and I've learned lots of visual information from you, from

855
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:42,800
Speaker 1: what jiraffes looked like to fashion choices of punk rockers.

856
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:44,880
Speaker 1: I wanted to make you aware of this though. You

857
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 1: can help people who can't look at pictures, whether uh,

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00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:50,480
Speaker 1: we're blind or whether we're on the road driving in

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00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:52,440
Speaker 1: a truck and we don't want to pull out our

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00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:54,959
Speaker 1: phones to look at pictures. Thanks for years of learning

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00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 1: and laughter. Appreciate the work warmly, Ryan for Minneapolis and

862
00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 1: Ryan in I have nothing to say but great point,

863
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:05,960
Speaker 1: and I'll do better. Very nice, Chuck. I don't think

864
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 1: there's anything else you could say. You know why, because

865
00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:11,200
Speaker 1: you're a good person and jerk. That's right. And now

866
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:13,080
Speaker 1: I will try and describe things to the best of

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00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:15,399
Speaker 1: my ability, which might not be great but I think

868
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:20,200
Speaker 1: you did a good job with the kawaka description. Smiling

869
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:23,719
Speaker 1: wrote it. Yeah, it looks like it's smiling. That's all

870
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:27,479
Speaker 1: you need to know that. Um, well, if you want

871
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:30,239
Speaker 1: to take a chuck or meat a task, that's There's

872
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:31,799
Speaker 1: not a lot of sport in that. But if you

873
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:34,439
Speaker 1: want to do it anyway, that's fine. You can send

874
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:37,040
Speaker 1: it to his via email, wrap it up and send

875
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:44,280
Speaker 1: it off to stuff podcast at iHeart radio dot com.

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00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of I Heart

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00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:48,840
Speaker 1: Radio for more podcasts for my heart Radio because it

878
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:51,560
Speaker 1: the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

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00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.