1 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: Hey there, it's Laura and I writer. I am here 2 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: with an update on a case we shared with you 3 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: back in season two about Walter Ogrod. He's a Philadelphia 4 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: man who is wrongly convicted because of the dirty tactics 5 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:20,600 Speaker 1: used by the infamous Philadelphia Police. For decades, the Philly 6 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:25,119 Speaker 1: Police to use brutality, lies, and corruption to rack up convictions, 7 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: and as we now know, many of those were innocent people. 8 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:31,319 Speaker 1: But recently there's been an effort to right some of 9 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: those wrongs. In the last two elections, the city voted 10 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:39,159 Speaker 1: for District Attorney Larry Krasner, who's committed to reforming the 11 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 1: police department and letting innocent people out of prison. He 12 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: established a Conviction Integrity Unit, which has accomplished more than 13 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:50,520 Speaker 1: twenty exonerations since it was formed in twenty eighteen. We've 14 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 1: featured some of those stories on wrongful conviction, and the 15 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: good work of Larry Krasner and the Philadelphia CiU continues. 16 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: In February twenty twenty three, a young woman named India 17 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: Spelman was exonerated after spending thirteen years behind bars. That 18 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 1: makes her the first black woman exonerated in Philadelphia. Exoneration 19 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 1: stories like Walter's and like India's, remind us we need 20 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: big reforms to our system. To do that, we need 21 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 1: brave attorneys and politicians who are willing to confront the 22 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: old ways of doing things. That's why your voice matters, 23 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 1: why your vote matters, because together we can support the 24 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 1: changes that will bring real justice to the legal system. 25 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,199 Speaker 1: Welcome to Wrongful Conviction, False Confessions. 26 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 2: I'm Laura and I writer, and I'm Steve Drison. 27 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 1: Today we'll bring you to Philadelphia for the story of 28 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: Walter Ogrod. Walter was sent to death row for a 29 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 1: murder who didn't commit by an old school Philly justice 30 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 1: system that was better known for injustice. Walter spent decades 31 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: in prison until a new wave of reform minded esecutors 32 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: went looking for the truth behind his conviction. Walter's story 33 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 1: gives step and me hope that real reform is really possible. 34 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 2: So I was born and raised in Philadelphia, and a 35 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:26,799 Speaker 2: few years ago Laura and I took a trip there 36 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 2: for work. I'm very proud of Philadelphia and I like 37 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 2: to show off the city. And there was this place 38 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 2: that I had to take Laura to. It's not Constitution. 39 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: Hall, Okay, not the Liberty Bell. 40 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 2: It's the Eastern State Penitentiary. 41 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: So you drive me to downtown Philly and there's this 42 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: rundown relic of a prison that's crumbling. It's covered in cobwebs. 43 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 1: It's almost like a haunted house in the middle of 44 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 1: downtown Philadelphia. It's not used any longer. 45 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:57,399 Speaker 2: It was built in eighteen twenty nine. 46 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 1: But it's been preserved there as this incredible monuments against 47 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 1: mass incarceration. 48 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 2: It's my favorite place to go because it fits the 49 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 2: city's personality and history so well. This is the city 50 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 2: with an unbelievable history of injustice, mass incarceration, and corruption 51 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 2: within the criminal justice system. And this history of injustice 52 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:22,119 Speaker 2: it peaked when I was a child in the sixties 53 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 2: and nineteen seventies. This was the time when Frank Rizzo 54 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 2: was the police chief and then he was the mayor. 55 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 2: He controlled the city and he sent out a message 56 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 2: that when police officers coerced confessions, he had their backs. 57 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: You know, just like Eastern State Penitentiary. Frank Rizzo has 58 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 1: become the symbol for the heaviest of hands in the 59 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 1: criminal justice system, for the way it can just come 60 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 1: down on the backs of people, especially people without power, 61 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: and that's exactly what we see in today's story, the 62 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 1: story of Walter Ogrod. Today's story starts in Northeast Philadelphia. 63 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: It's a working class part of Philly. The side streets 64 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: are lined with bungalows and the main drags are lined 65 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 1: with discount big box stores. The northeast is an outlying 66 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: area pretty far from downtown, where the courthouses and police 67 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: department are found. It even tried to secede once from 68 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: the rest of the city. But when it comes to 69 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: criminal justice, the Northeast is Philadelphia through and through. It's 70 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: a full participant in the city's policing machine. When our 71 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: story starts in nineteen eighty eight, that machine was notoriously 72 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: harsh and way too often couldn't deliver real justice. It's 73 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:39,159 Speaker 1: July nineteen eighty eight, and on one of Northeast Phillies' 74 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: side streets lived the family of a little girl, four 75 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: year old Barbara Jean Horn. On the twelfth of July, 76 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: Barbara Jane went missing sometime around two o'clock that afternoon. 77 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:52,720 Speaker 1: By five point thirty, a neighbor peeked inside a discarded 78 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: television box that was sitting outside on a curb next 79 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 1: to some trash cans. Inside the box was Barbara Jane, 80 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 1: and she was dead. She was unclothed, her hair was wet, 81 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 1: and she'd been struck five times on the head. It 82 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 1: was a horrendous crime. Police swarmed the block and found 83 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 1: four eye witnesses who'd seen a man earlier that afternoon 84 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 1: dragging a cardboard box down the sidewalk. The eyewitnesses all 85 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 1: gave roughly the same description. They'd seen a man with 86 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:26,679 Speaker 1: brown hair, around thirty years old, somewhere between five six 87 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 1: and five nine, with a medium build. It was a 88 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,359 Speaker 1: pretty good description, but police weren't able to generate any 89 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:37,359 Speaker 1: real leads. After several months, Barba Jeane's murder was featured 90 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 1: on the TV show Unsolved Mysteries and a police tip 91 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: line was set up. Close to a thousand tips were 92 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 1: phoned in, but police still couldn't solve the case after 93 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: almost four years. In early nineteen ninety two, the case 94 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: was reassigned to a new group of Philly detectives, and 95 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 1: these new cops seemed to have no difficulty picking a suspect, 96 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: a twenty three year old man named Walter Ogrod. Walter 97 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 1: was a round shoulder's thick glasses kind of guy who 98 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:08,719 Speaker 1: lived across the street from Barbara Jean's family. He was 99 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 1: black haired, six foot one, two hundred and twenty pounds, 100 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: not exactly the short, slim man who'd been seen dragging 101 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:18,479 Speaker 1: that box. Walter had no criminal record at all, but 102 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: he did have a record of profound learning disabilities over 103 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:26,279 Speaker 1: the years. Professionals who evaluated him used words like extreme 104 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:30,840 Speaker 1: dependency and social inadequacy. His teachers said that Walter was 105 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: no troublemaker. He'd only ever get in trouble because he 106 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: was in the wrong place at the wrong time. For 107 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:39,480 Speaker 1: Walter Ogrod, the wrong place at the wrong time was 108 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 1: a Philadelphia interrogation room on April fifth, nineteen ninety two. 109 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 1: That morning, police called Walter's house and left a message 110 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: asking him to come in for questioning about Barbara Jean. 111 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 1: He wasn't a suspect, they said, he was an informational witness. 112 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:58,839 Speaker 2: This happens all the time. But this is a ruse. 113 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 2: There's all already a plan a foot. Police officers don't 114 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:06,280 Speaker 2: view that person as a witness. They view that person 115 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 2: as a suspect. It's a ruse because it creates a 116 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 2: context in which the confession is going to be viewed 117 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 2: as voluntary. He drove down to the police station on 118 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 2: his own accord. We told him that the door is 119 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 2: open and he can leave at any time that he wants. 120 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 2: All of these tactics we see over and over again, 121 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 2: and oftentimes it's the first step down the road to 122 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 2: a false confession. 123 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 1: Walter was happy to help first chance he got. At 124 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: about one point thirty that afternoon, Walter drove himself to 125 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: the Philadelphia Police Administration Building. It's an imposing, severe nineteen 126 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 1: sixties era complex that Philadelphians call the Roundhouse. 127 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 2: The confession was one of police officer's main tools to 128 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 2: solve cases that were still open. 129 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: There were experts in breaking people, and the Roundhouse is 130 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: where the breaking happened. 131 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 2: It's the seat of police power in the city. 132 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: Walter showed up to the Roundhouse ready to cooperate, but 133 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: wiped out. He had just finished an eighteen hour shift 134 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 1: driving a bakery truck around a three hundred mile delivery route, 135 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 1: and he'd been awake for twelve hours. Before that, he. 136 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 2: Had been up for like thirty hours. He was exhausted. 137 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 2: He came into the interrogation room expecting to be providing 138 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 2: information that was helpful to the police, and he got 139 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 2: hit with an avalanche. 140 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: At the roundhouse, police put Walter into a back room 141 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 1: where the table and chairs were bolted to the floor. 142 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 1: That's where he'd face fourteen hours of interrogation. 143 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 2: If you go without sleep for some period of time, 144 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:55,439 Speaker 2: it clouds your ability to make rational decisions and leads 145 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 2: people to agree to things that they otherwise would never 146 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 2: agreed to. And Walter had cognitive disabilities too, so these 147 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:09,319 Speaker 2: twin issues made him an easy mark. 148 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 1: Now, the interrogation wasn't recorded, so we have no objective 149 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: record of what happened in the room. But Walter has 150 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: given a very detailed account of the interrogation. So here 151 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: we go. According to Walter, a police started by asking 152 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: where he'd been four years ago on the day Barbara 153 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: Jean disappeared. He went to work, he said. After he 154 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 1: got home he remembered seeing Barbara Jean's stepfather going door 155 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 1: to door looking for her. But these answers didn't seem 156 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 1: to satisfy the police. Walter started to feel strange. Why 157 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:45,079 Speaker 1: were the cops so interested in him? He stood up 158 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 1: tried to leave the room, but he says his interrogators 159 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 1: blocked the door. The police handcuffed Walter to the chair 160 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: and started showing him photos of Barbara Jean's dead body 161 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: in the cardboard box. We think you did this, they said. 162 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 1: Walter says. Police told him witnesses had identified him as 163 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 1: the perpetrator, even though no one actually had, and when 164 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 1: Walter insisted he was innocent, the police told him he 165 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: must be blocking memories of the murder. They wrote down 166 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 1: a description of how they thought Walter had committed the crime. 167 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 1: If you don't sign this confession, they said, we're going 168 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: to take you downstairs and we're going to put you 169 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 1: in a cell with a bunch of black people. We're 170 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 1: going to tell them you killed a bunch of black children, 171 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: and then we're going to see what happens. Except, of course, 172 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: they didn't use the word black. 173 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 2: This is the old school police department, the department built 174 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 2: by Frank Rizzo, who was an unabashed racist. I mean, 175 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 2: when he ran for mayor, he would hand out buttons 176 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 2: to his supporters that said vote white. It's no surprise 177 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 2: in this context that Walter Ogrod's interrogation was saturated with racism. 178 00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: By three point thirty in the morning, Walter had had enough. 179 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: He signed each page of a sixteen page confession, all 180 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:07,079 Speaker 1: of which had been written out by the police. According 181 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: to the confession, Walter lured Barbara Jean into his basement, 182 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: where he tried to molest her. When she resisted, he 183 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:15,959 Speaker 1: flew into a rage and hit her on the head 184 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:19,560 Speaker 1: with a two foot long metal bar from his weight set. 185 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 1: He rinsed off her body, hid her clothes in a 186 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 1: crawl space, and put her in the cardboard box. It 187 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 1: was a brutal statement enough to get Walter booked into 188 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 1: jail and charged with murder, but by seven a m. 189 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: Walter was recanting. He called an attorney from jail totally 190 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: distraught and said that police were telling him that he'd 191 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 1: killed a little girl and had a mental block about it. 192 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: Walter said he didn't do it. When the lawyer asked 193 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 1: why he hadn't called earlier, Walter explained that he had 194 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:51,719 Speaker 1: requested a lawyer during the interrogation, but the police had 195 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: said they'd have to put him in jail until the 196 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: lawyer came, and in the meantime the inmates would kill him. 197 00:11:57,960 --> 00:11:59,959 Speaker 1: That was more than enough to dissuade Walter. 198 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 2: You might be asking yourself, how can they do that? 199 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 2: Aren't they supposed to stop when a suspect asked for 200 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 2: the right to counsel? And the answer to that question 201 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 2: is yes. That's the one bright line rule of interrogation. 202 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 2: Suspect asks for a lawyer, police officers shut up until 203 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 2: a lawyer comes into the room. But they could get 204 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 2: away with it because there's no recording of this transaction. 205 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 2: Police officers are going to say he never asked for 206 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 2: a lawyer. And in Philadelphia, in a court of law 207 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 2: during this time, nobody's gonna believe Walter. 208 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 1: Ogrid Walter's trial for first degree murder began in October 209 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:51,079 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three. The only evidence against him was his confession, 210 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 1: and there was plenty of reason to disbelieve it. The 211 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: confession claimed that Walter had hidden Barber Jean's clothes in 212 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 1: his crawl space, but Walter's defense pointed out that no 213 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 1: clothes had been found there. A psychiatrist testified about Walter's 214 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: limitations and said the confession wasn't written in Walter's style 215 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: of speaking, and when Walter took the stand to proclaim 216 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: his own innocence, it was pretty clear the confession was 217 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: written in words he'd never use. On November fourth, nineteen 218 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 1: ninety three, the jury announced its verdict not guilty. 219 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 2: The jury acquitted Walter Ograd. 220 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,079 Speaker 1: Let's say that one more time. The jury found Walter 221 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:34,080 Speaker 1: not guilty. I mean, we almost never see this in 222 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: confession cases. 223 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 2: This is a rare event. It's like a total eclipse 224 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 2: of the sun. 225 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 1: For a moment, it looked like Walter was going home. 226 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 1: But as soon as the acquittal was announced, one juror 227 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 1: changed everything. He stood up and announced, I do not 228 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 1: agree with the verdict. The courtroom erupted and the judge 229 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:55,319 Speaker 1: declared a mistrial. In the end, the jury had hung 230 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 1: eleven in favor of acquittal, one in favor of conviction. 231 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 1: After the trial, one of the eleven jurors who believed 232 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: in Walter's innocence told the media that he saw gaping 233 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 1: holes in the prosecution's case. I didn't put much stock 234 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: in the confession, he said, I wanted to see evidence. 235 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 1: Walter was retried in nineteen ninety six, and this time 236 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 1: the prosecutors filled the holes in their case. They had 237 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 1: recruited a notorious jailhouse snitch, a man named John Hall, 238 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 1: who was locked up in the same jail as Walter. 239 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: Hall had a miles long track record of claiming to 240 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 1: overhear other inmates confess to their crimes in at least 241 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: twelve different homicide cases. He told the authorities about these 242 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 1: supposed confessions in exchange for benefits like reductions in his sentence. 243 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 1: For his apparently priestlike ability to hear confessions, Hall was 244 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 1: nicknamed the Monseigneur. 245 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 2: He would read newspaper articles about these stories and then 246 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 2: claim that this suspect confus to him, and he did 247 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 2: it because he was getting something in return. He would 248 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 2: get a cut in his sentence. He was a con man, 249 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 2: he was a liar, and the fact that prosecutors were 250 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 2: willing to use this man over and over again speaks 251 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 2: volumes about this unholy alliance between police officers and prosecutors 252 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 2: in Philadelphia. 253 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: This partnership with such a prolific snitch had helped the 254 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: Philly DA's office win a steady stream of convictions, but 255 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 1: by the time of Walter Ogrod's second trial, the Monseignor 256 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 1: had accumulated such a reputation that even prosecutors realized he 257 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 1: had no credibility. 258 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 2: Left the baggage around John Hall was so heavy that 259 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 2: the prosecutors couldn't use him in this case. So what 260 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 2: did Hall do? Hall trained another inmate in the details 261 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 2: of Walter's story and used that inmate to be the snitch. 262 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 1: He wasn't the only priest there to take confessions. 263 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 2: That's right. He turned the jail and prison system in 264 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 2: Pennsylvania into a seminary. 265 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 1: For Walter's second trial, prosecutors got around their usual star 266 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 1: witnesses credibility problem by calling a different inmate to testify. 267 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 1: Ja Wolchansky was an acolyte of John Hall, and Jay 268 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 1: was all too happy to take the monseignor's place on 269 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 1: the witness stand. At trial, Jay testified that Walter had 270 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 1: confessed to him in jail. For good measure, Jay added 271 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: a story about Walter, describing what happened when his own 272 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: mom asked if he'd killed Barbara Jean. According to Jay, 273 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: Walter told his mom, damn right, I did, and if 274 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 1: you know what's best for you, you'll keep quiet, believe it 275 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: or not. This is enough. Based on Jay's snitch testimony 276 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: and on the confession, Walter Ogrod was convicted of the 277 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 1: murder of Barbara jen Horn on October eighth, nineteen ninety six. 278 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: The next day, it took this jury less than ninety 279 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:06,639 Speaker 1: minutes to sentence Walter Ogrod to death and off Walter 280 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 1: went to death row. Walter's case went through years of 281 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: appeals to no avail. Eventually, a team of lawyers from 282 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 1: the Federal Community Defender Office in Philadelphia, along with attorneys 283 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 1: from a local law firm, began to reinvestigate Walter's case. 284 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 1: In twenty eleven, they filed a post conviction petition with 285 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 1: some blockbuster pieces of evidence attached. First, the petition took 286 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:37,640 Speaker 1: down the snitches. It included an affidavit from the monseigneur himself, 287 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:41,359 Speaker 1: John Hall, who said that his buddy Jay Wolchansky never 288 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 1: really talked to Walter in any detail at all. Instead, 289 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: the Monseigneur had told Jay what to say about Walter. 290 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:52,159 Speaker 2: The Monseigneur finally had his come to Jesus moment, he 291 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 2: admitted that he had lied about Walter Ogrod. 292 00:17:55,960 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: After the Monseigneur died, his widow also submitted an affidavit's 293 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 1: spilling details about the snitch scheme. Turns out she was 294 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 1: an accomplice in fabricating the monsigneur's confessions It was her 295 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 1: newspaper research that served as the basis for his stories, 296 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: but when it came to Walter's case, she couldn't find 297 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: that much information in the papers, so she wrote Walter 298 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:21,400 Speaker 1: a letter, pretending to be a stripper, asking for information 299 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 1: about his case. Walter, of course, never confessed anything to her. 300 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 1: The story of his guilt was all made up. As 301 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 1: for Walter's confession, the lawyers pointed out that Barbara Jean 302 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 1: didn't have the kind of skull fractures you'd expect if 303 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:37,439 Speaker 1: she had actually been hit over the head with a 304 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: weight bar. The confession just didn't match the facts of 305 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 1: the case, and it seemed there was a reason for that. 306 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 1: The same officer who interrogated Walter had been implicated in 307 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 1: at least two other false confession cases. One involved a 308 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 1: man who'd confessed to raping a seventy seven year old woman, 309 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:58,359 Speaker 1: and another involved a man who confessed to killing a 310 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:02,120 Speaker 1: local businessman. Were closing those cases, the Philly police gave 311 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:06,360 Speaker 1: this officer the nickname Detective Perfect. Thankfully, both of these 312 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:11,199 Speaker 1: wrongfully convicted men were later exonerated, and Detective Perfects record 313 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 1: was deservedly tarnished. 314 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:16,920 Speaker 2: The detective who took Walter Ograd's confession. Was a golden 315 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:21,959 Speaker 2: boy in the Philadelphia Police department, and he claimed to 316 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:26,400 Speaker 2: have a ninety five percent success rate in getting confessions 317 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 2: to close cases. 318 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,399 Speaker 1: There's a great quote from a journalist who followed this 319 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,399 Speaker 1: case very closely, man named Tom Lowenstein, who said, you know, 320 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 1: having a ninety five percent clearance rate for a homicide 321 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 1: detective is kind of like Mark maguire hitting seventy five 322 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: home runs. You got to ask, did he do it? 323 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 1: Honestly exactly? 324 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:48,679 Speaker 2: When you see detectives claiming to have that high of 325 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,679 Speaker 2: a confession rate, you know there's a lot of false 326 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 2: confessions in that mix. 327 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,160 Speaker 1: The post conviction lawyers had presented a pretty compelling case 328 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 1: for Walter's innocent. Nonetheless, seven years later, in twenty seventeen, 329 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,200 Speaker 1: the court still had not issued a ruling. But while 330 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: Walter's case was stalled, Philadelphia began to change. In twenty seventeen, 331 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 1: the people of Philadelphia elected a new unlikely district attorney, 332 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:21,720 Speaker 1: Larry Krasner. Larry was a civil rights lawyer who made 333 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 1: his name suing the Philadelphia police for misconduct. He was 334 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 1: elected on a wave of neighborhood activism led by Philadelphians 335 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,879 Speaker 1: of color who were angry at the authorities for years 336 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: of abuse and neglect. Larry Krasner quickly came to define 337 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,440 Speaker 1: a new vision of what it meant to be a prosecutor. 338 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,880 Speaker 1: He did not believe in the death penalty, he did 339 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 1: not believe in knee jerk mass incarceration, and he did 340 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:49,959 Speaker 1: not believe in keeping innocent men and women in prison. 341 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 1: Here's our friend Carrie Wood, who works in the part 342 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 1: of Larry Krasner's office dedicated to overturning wrongful convictions. Before 343 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 1: she joined his office, she he was a wrongful conviction 344 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,640 Speaker 1: lawyer like us who worked at the Ohio Innocence Project. 345 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:09,879 Speaker 3: Larry Krasner was really thinking about the system differently and 346 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 3: wanting to return to a role of truth seeker and 347 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 3: representing the whole community, not just a particular swath of it. 348 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,200 Speaker 3: That was really something that made me change my mind 349 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 3: about wanting to work in a DA's office. 350 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 1: Carrie has crossed over to the prosecution side with the 351 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,640 Speaker 1: goal of changing it, and we're pretty proud of her. 352 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 3: Unfortunately, one of the biggest roadblocks to getting justice were 353 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:39,679 Speaker 3: often prosecutors' offices. I thought that coming to a DA's office, 354 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,959 Speaker 3: I might actually be able to make a difference to 355 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:46,119 Speaker 3: right past wrongs and to use those past wrongs to 356 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 3: point to practices that needed to change. 357 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:52,359 Speaker 1: After Carrie began working in the Philadelphia Conviction Integrity Unit, 358 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 1: one of the first cases assigned to her with Walter Ogrod. 359 00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 3: Walter's attorneys had pointed out that Barbara Jean Horne didn't 360 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 3: have any skull fractures, and Walter's initial confession was that 361 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:06,920 Speaker 3: he had a hit her over the head with a 362 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 3: large weight bar. That was certainly something that sounded worth investigating. 363 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 1: Carrie and her colleagues dove into Walter's case, and what 364 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: they found was revealing. 365 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 3: We began to identify documents that looked like they had 366 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 3: not been turned over to defense counsel at the time 367 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 3: of the original trial. One of the things that really 368 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 3: jumped out at me was notes from the prosecutor about 369 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:38,400 Speaker 3: what the actual true cause of death was. In those notes, 370 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:42,359 Speaker 3: it says Barbara Jane Horn had not died from a 371 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:44,919 Speaker 3: blow to the head. The most likely scenario was that 372 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 3: she had been suffocated. So that particular note in the file, 373 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 3: once we came across it was a pretty big deal. 374 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 1: The state had known all along that Walter's confession, which 375 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 1: didn't mention smothering once, was not true, even as it 376 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,439 Speaker 1: sought to execute him. In fact, a new review of 377 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 1: the autopsy revealed that whatever did strike Barbaraging in the 378 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 1: head was light weight and thin in profile. It definitely 379 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,879 Speaker 1: wasn't the heavy weight bar that Walter's confession described. That 380 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: was enough for Carrie and the Conviction Integrity Unit to 381 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,960 Speaker 1: do DNA testing on the liquid that the Morgue had 382 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 1: used to wash Barbera Jane's body. 383 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 3: What else can Barbara Jane tell me about what happened 384 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 3: to her that maybe was missed at the time. 385 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 1: The result they found a full male DNA profile. That 386 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 1: profile didn't match anyone in the state or national DNA databases, 387 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 1: But one thing was clear. The DNA definitely did not 388 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 1: belong to Walter Ogrod And unlike in so many of 389 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 1: the stories we tell on this podcast, these prosecutors understood 390 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:50,920 Speaker 1: what a DNA exclusion like this meant. It was undeniable 391 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 1: proof that Walter had been wrongfully convicted. On February twenty eighth, 392 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 1: twenty twenty, Carrie and her team filed a motion to 393 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 1: throw out Walter's conveytion. The evidence used to convict him, 394 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 1: she wrote, was false, unreliable, and incomplete. Instead, she stated 395 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:13,880 Speaker 1: Walter Ogrod was very likely innocent. For Walter to win 396 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,359 Speaker 1: exoneration and leave death row, though it wasn't enough for 397 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,640 Speaker 1: the DA's office to declare him innocent, the judge had 398 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:24,399 Speaker 1: to agree to exonerate him or Walter wasn't going anywhere. 399 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 1: This judge was a former prosecutor herself. She'd tried homicide 400 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 1: cases alongside another prosecutor who later became the judge who 401 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 1: presided over Walter's conviction. These two judges epitomized Philadelphia's old Guard, 402 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: both its harshness and its cronyism. So when the office 403 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:47,320 Speaker 1: of Larry Krasner, that new reformer DA, declared Walter Ogrod innocent, well, 404 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 1: the case encountered some major resistance. 405 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 3: Once we had concluded our investigation, we were originally scheduled 406 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 3: to have a hearing in front of the judge, but 407 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 3: unfortunately COVID happened. 408 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 1: COVID nineteen hit Pennsylvania only a few weeks after prosecutors 409 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 1: asked the court to throw out Walter's conviction. Court operations 410 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 1: slowed way down. The judge had scheduled a March twenty 411 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 1: seventh hearing on Walter's case, but halfway through March she 412 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:30,160 Speaker 1: canceled it. She was too busy. Her clerk informed Walter's lawyers, 413 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 1: and Walter's case was no more important than any other. 414 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 2: It is more important than any other. This is a 415 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:40,360 Speaker 2: case where the district attorney is saying, we believe this 416 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 2: man is innocent. That almost never happens. She put Walter's 417 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:49,680 Speaker 2: life at risk. Prisons are a petri dish for this virus. 418 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 2: COVID should have been a reason for fast tracking this, 419 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 2: not an excuse for delaying it. 420 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:01,160 Speaker 1: But while the judge was delaying the hearing, Walter Ogrod, 421 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:05,359 Speaker 1: then fifty five years old, was falling ill. According to 422 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 1: his lawyers, Walter spiked one hundred and three degree temperature 423 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,919 Speaker 1: and developed breathing problems that made him feel like he 424 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 1: was inhaling through a wet sponge. In mid March, Walter 425 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 1: was isolated in his cell and left to battle his 426 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 1: symptoms alone. 427 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 3: The prison where Walter was was a huge hotspot for COVID. 428 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:30,159 Speaker 3: You become concerned that, well, you know, is this COVID? 429 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 3: Will he die in prison before he is able to 430 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:34,200 Speaker 3: be exonerated. 431 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,880 Speaker 1: Walter's lawyers were terrified that he wouldn't live to see freedom. 432 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: On March nineteenth, they filed an emergency request to get 433 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,720 Speaker 1: him tested for COVID and treated at an outside hospital. 434 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: The DA agreed, but the judge again delayed ruling for days. 435 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 2: This is not the time for a power struggle. Give 436 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:57,160 Speaker 2: the guy the fucking test. Oh yeah, there are other 437 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 2: people who want to be tested too, but nobody else 438 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,679 Speaker 2: has been locked up for two decades or more for 439 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 2: a crime they didn't commit. 440 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: Walter ended up fighting whatever virus he had in his 441 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 1: cell alone. After many days of sickness, he recovered. Walter's 442 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,920 Speaker 1: health crisis had passed, But what about his freedom? Walter's 443 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: lawyers kept pressing. They begged the judge for ten minutes 444 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:27,640 Speaker 1: of her time. Got to wait until June was the reply. Finally, 445 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 1: June fifth rolled around. In true twenty twenty fashion, the 446 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 1: court hearing on Walter's release unfolded virtually on zoom. Walter 447 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,920 Speaker 1: appeared in orange prison clothing and a disposable face mask. 448 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:44,119 Speaker 1: At the hearing. Prosecutor Carrie Wood tearfully apologized both to 449 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,640 Speaker 1: Barbara Jean's mother, Sharon Fahee and to Walter. 450 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,679 Speaker 3: I spent a lot of time with Sharon and saw 451 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 3: the huge impact that this case had on her life 452 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 3: for decades, and worked really hard to see if I 453 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 3: could answer the question for her, and then came up short. 454 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,239 Speaker 3: One of the hardest things for me to do is 455 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 3: to tell her that I wasn't sure if I was 456 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:09,400 Speaker 3: going to be able to find the person that did 457 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 3: to her little girl, and that it was the mistakes 458 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:17,639 Speaker 3: of this office that resulted in that. You know, you 459 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 3: can't begin to fix anything until you identify or admit 460 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 3: that you have a problem, you apologize for it, and 461 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 3: you begin to work to make things better. 462 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 1: And Carrie also had something to say to Walter, something 463 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 1: so beautiful that I'm going to read it to you now. 464 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 1: I am sorry it took twenty eight years for us 465 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 1: to listen to what Barbara Jean was trying to tell us. 466 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 1: That you are innocent, and that the words on your 467 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 1: statement of concession came from Philadelphia police detectives and not you. 468 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 1: Not only did this misconduct result in twenty eight years 469 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: of your life being stolen, but you were also threatened 470 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 1: with execution based on falsehoods. 471 00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 3: Having worked on a number of cases that have a 472 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 3: result exonerations. Even before I came to the office, one 473 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 3: of the things that the innocent person had often commented 474 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 3: on was did they ever apologize? And most often the 475 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 3: answer was no. Someone who's innocent, it's the thing they 476 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 3: most often wanted to hear. I did a lot of 477 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 3: work to try to rectify what I could, but for 478 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 3: the things that I couldn't fix that had caused harm, 479 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 3: of course you apologize. 480 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 1: It was finally enough, after months of delay, the judge 481 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 1: granted the DA's motion to throw out Walter's conviction and 482 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 1: death sentence. Walter Ogrod walked out of prison that same day, 483 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 1: after spending almost three decades behind bars. 484 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 3: You know, wrongful convictions don't make people safer. You just 485 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 3: slowly tried to push forward and improve things so that 486 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 3: more wrongful convictions like mister o'crod's don't happen. It's really 487 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 3: hard for people to admit mistakes. The hope is that 488 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 3: more folks will be willing to step up and say 489 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 3: I got it wrong. What I tend to focus on 490 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 3: is can to identify a problem and how can I 491 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 3: fix it? What can I do to fix this? For 492 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 3: mister Ogrod and then what can we do to make 493 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 3: it better for the citizens of Philadelphia. That's why I 494 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 3: do the work that I do. That's why I work 495 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 3: in a CiU. 496 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 2: The truth is the single most important thing a prosecutor 497 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 2: needs to be concerned with, because without truth, there can 498 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:40,760 Speaker 2: be no justice. 499 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: It takes a lot of courage to face the truth, 500 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 1: especially when that means someone with power has to admit 501 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 1: they made a mistake. 502 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 2: These are the prosecutors that bring nobility to the profession. 503 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 2: These are the prosecutors that place seeking justice ahead of 504 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 2: preserving convictions. You know, the ghost of Frank Rizzo still 505 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 2: haunts the city of Philadelphia. 506 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 1: There was a statue of Frank Rizzo erected as a 507 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 1: monument to the city's law enforcement. 508 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:16,959 Speaker 2: That statute was a symbol of injustice. It became a 509 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 2: rallying point for all of the activists seeking change to 510 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 2: policing in Philadelphia, and finally, the Mayor of Philadelphia, using 511 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 2: a crane, lifted it from its moorings and removed Rizzo's statute. 512 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 1: That monument to the old, unjust ways of doing things 513 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 1: came down just a few days before Walter Ogerrod walked 514 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:43,960 Speaker 1: out of prison. 515 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 2: To me It's this sort of final fitting end to 516 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 2: a kind of policing and a kind of law enforcement 517 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:57,200 Speaker 2: that plagued Philadelphia for years. It's the sign that change 518 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 2: is here now and hopefully it will endure. 519 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:07,880 Speaker 1: Out with the old, in with the new. Wrongful Conviction 520 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,440 Speaker 1: False Confessions is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts 521 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 1: in association with Signal Company Number one Special thanks to 522 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 1: our executive producers Jason Flamm and Kevin Wardis. Our production 523 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 1: team is headed by Senior producer and Pope, along with 524 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 1: producers Joshi Hammer and Jess Shane. Our show is mixed 525 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: by Genie Montalvo. John Colbert is our intrepid intern. Our 526 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 1: music was composed by Jay Ralph. You can follow me 527 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 1: on Instagram or Twitter at Laura and I Wrider, and 528 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:38,080 Speaker 1: you can follow. 529 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 2: Me on Twitter at s Drizzen. 530 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 1: For more information on the show, visit Wrongful Conviction podcast 531 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 1: dot com. Be sure to follow the show on Instagram 532 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 1: at Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and 533 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 1: on Twitter at wrong Conviction