WEBVTT - Adam Silver 0:00:01.040 --> 0:00:04.400 The NBA's popularity seems to be hitting a new peak 0:00:04.559 --> 0:00:08.799 as ticket sales, revenues, and franchise value continue to rise. 0:00:09.200 --> 0:00:12.320 NBA Commissioner Adam Silver sat down with Carlisle Group co 0:00:12.400 --> 0:00:15.840 founder David Rubinstein for his Bloomberg television show Peer to 0:00:15.880 --> 0:00:19.560 Peer Conversations and spoke about the history of basketball and 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:22.880 why it's so popular around the world. You have been 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:26.120 the commissioner since two thousand and fourteen, and you had 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:29.280 spent twenty two years at the NBA office before that, 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:32.519 And before that you were a graduate of the two 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:35.800 best schools to go to in combination, Duke University and 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:39.000 the university's Cargo Law School, right, which you happen to 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:41.680 go to, right, So you can't do any better than that. 0:00:42.159 --> 0:00:45.680 So let's just start with the NBA today and how 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:49.599 it's doing. And honestly, since you've been the commissioner, the 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:53.559 revenues are up, uh, ticket sales are up. The owner's 0:00:54.240 --> 0:00:58.200 value of their teams is up by about three times. 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:00.960 So are you adequately paid for the job you're doing? 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:05.440 Do you think today? Um, the NBA it seems to 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:08.880 be at at its peak right now. It's very popular 0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:10.399 all over the world. Why do you think it is 0:01:10.480 --> 0:01:13.959 that NBA basketball is so popular around the world, whereas 0:01:13.959 --> 0:01:17.280 our Major League Baseball and professional football isn't quite as 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:21.360 global sport. Well, I think part part of the reason 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:24.480 is that it's been an Olympic sport since the nineteen thirties. 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:26.759 I think that's made a big difference, and that it's 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:29.520 a sport that has been played around the world. It 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:34.800 was actually invented by Christian missionaries in you know, James 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:38.440 Naismith was a Christian missionary, and the game was shortly 0:01:38.480 --> 0:01:42.520 after it was invent in Springfield, Massachusetts, brought to China, 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:46.000 and so it's it's been global since its earliest days. 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:48.560 And I think when you think of that the two 0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:51.280 most popular global sports, I don't think it's an accident 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:54.880 that both involved round balls. One you kick and one 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:58.000 you shoot use your hands. And I think there's almost 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:01.840 something um evolution ary about it about round balls. And 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:04.840 I think most people, even if you're not a basketball player, 0:02:05.000 --> 0:02:07.840 if you know, whether it's your you know, balling up 0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:09.920 paper and shooting it into a garbage can, or if 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:11.720 your little kid I have I have a young daughter 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:14.200 and she sees a ball, she she kicks it, or 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:17.240 she picks it up and she throws it. So today, 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:19.160 are there any more franchise than might be for sale? 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:22.120 By the way, is there any not that I'm aware of? 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:24.560 Not they're were okay, But some of the people that 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:27.760 have bought these franchises have done extremely well. People bought 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:29.880 I think that, like said, the seventies Sixers were brought 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:32.280 a few years ago for three or four hundred million dollars, 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:35.360 the Bucks for maybe four or five million dollars. And 0:02:35.400 --> 0:02:38.160 when Steve Bamber came in and paid two billion dollars 0:02:38.160 --> 0:02:40.760 for the Clippers, where all the other owners happy because 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:44.280 it made their their team look more valuable or not? Yes, 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:51.680 they were happy? And uh but and and since Steve 0:02:52.440 --> 0:02:55.720 bought the Clippers, two teams have sold for more than 0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:59.600 he paid, Um Houston Rockets and the Brooklyn Nets. So 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:01.480 one of the most difficult things you had to do 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:04.680 after you became the commissioner was to an effect banned 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:07.040 the then owner of the l A Clippers. Was that 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:11.679 a tough decision for you? Um? Yes, I mean I 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:15.400 think people may not realize it, but he's the only 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:19.800 owner who's ever permanently been banned from a sport. Um 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:24.200 and it's it's difficult because I in essence worked for 0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:26.680 the owners. I worked for the owners collectively. I don't 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:29.080 work for any one owner, but my job is to 0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:31.079 do what's in the best inches of the league. And 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:34.680 as people here may remember that the tape that came out, 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:38.360 the recording for which he was banned, came out, Um, 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:40.280 you know, in the middle of the night l a time, 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:41.640 so I was in New York, so I didn't hear 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:46.480 until Saturday morning, and he was banned on Tuesday. So 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:51.720 I mean, he received NBA style due process. But I 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:55.400 think in most walks of life, people you know, to 0:03:55.480 --> 0:03:57.920 think that from beginning to end that was four days 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:00.400 as was remarkable. I think he paid be less than 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:02.800 a hundred million dollars when he bought the team many 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:05.280 many years earlier, was in San Diego. Then, I know 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:06.840 that's the way you look at it. That but he 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:10.680 made a big profit, I know. So my view is, yeah, 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:13.880 I don't think frankly, from his standpoint, he's an extraordinarily 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:17.800 wealthy guy, and um, I don't think his reaction was, 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:19.760 look how much money I just made the team was 0:04:19.800 --> 0:04:22.200 worth that regardless of what the family didn't call you 0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:23.919 up and say thank you for doing that. Nothing they 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:26.960 didn't do that, Okay, So but I understand that's how 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:30.760 you look at it. Private equity. So one of the 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:33.920 controversial things in college basketball has been the so called 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:37.400 one and done situation where college are high school players 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:39.960 go to college for one year more or less, and 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:42.880 then they get drafted into the NBA. UM are you 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:45.560 in favor of continuing that one and done policy? And 0:04:45.600 --> 0:04:47.360 what would you change it to if you did change it. 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:50.280 It's it's interesting when so when I first became commissioner 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:53.560 UM five years ago, I announced that I thought the 0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:56.720 minimum age for entering the NBA should be twenty instead 0:04:56.760 --> 0:05:00.840 of nineteen. Roughly eleven years ago we changed it from 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:03.680 eighteen to nineteen, and that has to be collectively bargained 0:05:03.680 --> 0:05:06.159 with our players Association. So that's an area where I 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:09.120 don't have the unial lateral right to make a decision. 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:15.880 I'd say, then, once I became commissioner and and and 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:20.400 became more aware of how the one and done situation 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:24.800 was actually worked in operations, sort of how the recruiting worked. 0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:29.039 UM then there's obviously been some very high profile um 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:34.120 UH criminal proceedings around sort of college sports right now. 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:37.320 And then in the middle of that, Um Mark Emritt, 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:39.279 the head of the n C Double A, appointed a 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:43.480 commission that included what was chaired by Conna Lisa Rice 0:05:44.080 --> 0:05:47.720 um to look at lots of issues involving college sports, 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:51.200 but particularly to focus on the one and done situation. 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:56.400 And ultimately, Conno Lisa Rice and her commission recommended to 0:05:56.480 --> 0:05:59.920 the NBA and our Players Association that we returned to 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:03.760 the eighteen year old entry age. And I would say 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:06.520 that that had a huge impact on me. That together 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:10.400 with a better understanding of what is happening to these 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:13.159 top players in that it's it's hard even to see 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:15.440 it as a full year. In many cases in college, 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:18.080 most of them leave once the tournament is over. I've 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:22.360 changed my position eighteen. The Players Association has historically been 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:24.479 that it should be eighteen, but there are a bunch 0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:26.560 of issues that need to be worked through between us 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:29.560 and the Players Association, so it's something we're an active discussion. 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:33.440 It's a few years away. I think also, if we 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:36.200 were to make the change, I think the first season 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:38.160 that would make sense to make that change for is 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:41.680 two thousand twenty two, in part because that's the current 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:44.279 class that's just an essence finished their freshman year in 0:06:44.360 --> 0:06:47.680 high school, and the cohort is pretty well known. I mean, 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:51.480 lots of these young men may move from you know, 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:55.520 tenth projected pick to third projected pick. But but there 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:58.440 aren't that many surprises in the cohort. And so if 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:01.440 there was no longer an issue of eligibility because remember now, 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:05.400 because of n C double n A regulations, we can't 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:07.960 be involved with that cohort of players right now. So 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:11.960 if the rule were to change, we and our Players Association, 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:15.120 USA Basketball other groups would work much more directly with 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:17.240 those young players to prepare them for the NBA eight 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:19.200 I mean the one and done after they finished the 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:22.200 n s A tournament. They're not finishing their classes. I 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:24.600 don't want to say that's the case for all schools, um, 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:27.640 but it's the case with many of those players, understandably 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:32.800 because um the moment they fin look I I think 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:35.280 that's the whole hypocrisy in a way of the one 0:07:35.320 --> 0:07:38.920 and done program. Those top players are being recruited by 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:41.400 those schools as the best path to being a top 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:45.400 draft pick in the NBA. So once they once they 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:50.720 finish their collegiate career, after one season, they are fully 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:53.560 focused on preparing for the NBA draft. So whether or 0:07:53.600 --> 0:07:56.320 not they're still going to some classes. And remember, I 0:07:56.320 --> 0:07:59.720 mean just to put it in context, for a player 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:03.560 into for a top player coming into the NBA, let's 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:05.560 say a top ten pick that's going to come into 0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:09.080 next year's draft. Given our pay scale now, and assuming 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:12.920 the NBA continues to prosper, and assuming that player stays 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:17.080 healthy and and plays around where the expectations that player 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:20.800 will play, that player, justin salary alone is going to 0:08:20.880 --> 0:08:25.680 make well over two hundred million dollars. So um, So 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:29.320 this this the steaks. It's it's hard. It's hard. I 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:31.720 think if you were that parent or guardian to say 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:34.600 to that player it's more important that you go to 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:37.440 three more classes as opposed to preparing for such a 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:40.400 critically important decision. I think it's it. And I think 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:44.280 that's where the hypocrisy lies. Your referees are. They seem 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:46.320 to be in pretty good shape there. Sometimes they're you know, 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:48.720 not twenty years old, but they seem to be. You 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:50.720 require them to exercise a lot. They don't seem that 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:53.920 pot bellies. They seem to be really good shape. They 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:55.920 I hope that's not the best you can say about them. 0:08:56.200 --> 0:08:59.920 They don't have pot bellies. Well, they seem to be 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:02.480 for guys that are age, they'rething to being pretty good shape. 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:05.360 But I think that are there women referees? Yeah, absolutely, 0:09:05.360 --> 0:09:08.559 by the way that we have UM. We have three 0:09:08.679 --> 0:09:10.960 female referees right now, and I think it's an area 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:14.320 frankly where I've acknowledged that. I'm not sure how it 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:18.080 was that it remained so male dominated for so long, 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:23.280 because it's an area the game where UM, physically, certainly 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:26.000 there's no benefit to being a man as opposed to 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:27.679 a woman when it comes to refereeing. And in fact, 0:09:28.200 --> 0:09:31.200 you know, we're now in terms of the last group 0:09:31.320 --> 0:09:33.600 of referees that we hired into the league, and they 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:36.160 came from our development league is are is called our 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:40.240 g league. UM. Two of the last five officials that 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:42.920 came in where women and the and the goal is 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:46.320 going forward it should be roughly fifty new officials entering 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:49.480 the league. OK. So let's talk about UM. One serious 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:53.080 issue that I didn't really address before. You've said that 0:09:53.160 --> 0:09:57.800 players have UM depression and melancholy and they feel isolated. 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:01.240 Can you explain, you know, somebody's making fifty million dollars 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:05.079 a year. They seem to be well respected by everybody. 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:09.240 Why are they so depressed and isolated? Well, and in 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:11.959 all seriousness, what I've said is that when I in 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:16.040 talking about our players, I said they are no more 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:20.800 immune from mental illness than any other sector of our society. 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:22.800 And I think I'm sure people in this room no 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:27.000 families firsthand that regardless of how much money you're making, 0:10:27.120 --> 0:10:32.320 or your position in life or your family, that in 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:35.640 some cases it's chemical, in some cases environmental, but that 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:41.439 it cuts across, you know, alsocio economic groups. And and 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:44.200 what's changing though in our league, and and again I 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:47.719 think this is it's it's wonderful that that players are 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:49.719 now willing to talk about these things. We had too 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:52.600 high profile players the Margin Rosen when he was still 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:55.479 with the Raptors and Kevin Love on the Cleveland Cavaliers 0:10:55.600 --> 0:10:59.439 who came out publicly and said they were suffering from depression, 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:01.760 had issue is with anxiety, you know, and I know 0:11:01.840 --> 0:11:06.120 firsthand they weren't the first players in our league suffering 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:08.800 with issues like those, but they were certainly the first 0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:11.199 players while they were current players in the NBA to 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:14.840 talk about it and I think what what And I've 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:18.640 heard from so many mental health professionals that when it 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:21.640 really goes to the heart of your question, when people 0:11:21.679 --> 0:11:24.880 who are perceived as having everything, and then especially in 0:11:24.960 --> 0:11:30.479 something in professional sports where there's a certain machoism associated 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:34.040 with it and and a certain perceived toughness that and 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:37.480 I think that the stigma historically has been suck it 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:40.400 up right, and you're not tough if if if you're 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:44.000 dealing with something that's not physical and where you know 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:47.840 when originally are our junior basketball programs were literally just 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:50.160 about basketball skills like keep your elbow in and shoot 0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:52.160 this way and this is how you play defense. And 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:55.320 then we morphed those programs into more about physical fitness 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:57.560 in addition to basketball skills. And now in the last 0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:01.000 year we've added a mental wellness component. It's been incredibly 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:05.440 well received by people throughout the country you know who who, 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:07.520 because I know from the letters we get and from 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:10.080 the mental health professionals we work with that kids are 0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:12.760 now coming in and saying, Wow, this NBA player is 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:15.720 able to you know, raise their hand and say, you know, 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:19.520 I'm suffering, I need help. You know, regular kids feel 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:24.840 comfortable doing that as well, if you are, I suppose um. 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:28.000 But the Supreme Court has said that sports betting is 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:30.760 more or less going to be legal. Essentially it's legal. 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:33.760 So are you worried that in the nineteen fifties and 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:37.679 so on the college sports we had sports betting shaving 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:41.080 people were because of the odds are related to the 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:44.520 point spread, are you worried about that in the NBA. 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:48.920 I'm always worried that we could have a scandal of 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:52.320 any kind, certain certainly one involving sports betting. I think 0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:56.679 that we are better off with a regular, regulated betting 0:12:56.840 --> 0:13:00.200 framework than keeping it all underground and illegal. And I 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:02.800 know firsthand as the league that you know it's the 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:05.439 Supreme Court decision has only been within the last year, 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:08.840 and now something like eight states have now legalized sports betting. 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:12.280 Our preference would be that there would be a consistent 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:15.240 federal framework. Because of your league, and you're potentially dealing 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:18.079 with fifty different states and all their different requirements, it 0:13:18.200 --> 0:13:20.360 becomes a huge burden for the business and it's also 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:22.160 a bit of a race to the bottom among the 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:25.319 states sometimes from a regulatory standpoint. But putting that aside, 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:29.640 in terms of our concern that like any public market. 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:32.760 Just if you think of NASDAC or New York Stock Exchange. 0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:37.439 Part of their ability to to ferret out illegal activities 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:42.000 from the algorithms that that show when there's um deviations, 0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:45.480 that that that caused their computers to to to you know, 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:48.199 issue red flags and say something aberational has happened here. 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:52.200 When everything is illegal, other than having in essence tipping 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:55.839 services and relationships, we can't know those things. So so 0:13:56.240 --> 0:14:00.440 I think it's better that it be transparent, regulated, you know, 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:04.120 and controlled and authenticated. And this way also people are 0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:06.040 betting with their credit cards, so you know who they are. 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:08.959 And there's it's been not only legal and obviously the 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:12.240 state of Nevada for a long time, but for decades 0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:14.480 in Europe. And I've learned a lot from our counterparts 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:18.400 soccer leagues because they're they've worked and lived in regulated 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:20.680 betting frameworks for a long time, and they have much 0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:23.000 better controls than we would. You like to own a 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:27.560 piece of the betting profits in the league, not the profits. 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:31.000 I think our proposal is um. I mean, it's been 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:33.520 a bit controversial, but you know, we've proposed that we 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:36.800 received something that that I've called an integrity fee and 0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:38.600 some people said, oh, that's a euphemism for you just 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:40.640 getting a royalty, And I'm saying, all right, called a royalty. 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:44.360 You know. My view is this this year, the NBA 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:48.640 will spend roughly eight billion dollars creating the NBA, I mean, 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:51.440 will generate around nine billion, and we spend about eight billions. 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:54.000 And my feeling is as the creators of the intellectual 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:59.920 property and the organization in which the burden of regulation 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:02.720 has been imposed on us by the states. I mean again, 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:04.560 this is you know that the Supreme Court did what 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:07.080 it did, and now states are doing what they're doing 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:11.880 legalizing sports betting. They are now imposing a set of 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:15.800 requirements on us in terms of how they expect us 0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:18.800 to protect the integrity of the product. And and so 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:23.680 my view is we should get a fee, not off 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:26.080 the profits, because I don't want anyone to think in 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:29.920 any way that we're incentivized for a particular team to win, 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:33.480 or for a game to go, or for a particular score, 0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:37.040 or for you know, uh, seven games instead of six 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:39.240 games or whatever else. But yes, I feel as a 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:42.040 business matter, we should share in the proceeds. How do 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:44.720 you get to be NBA commissioner. Really, um, do you? 0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:46.800 I mean, did you grow up saying I want to 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:49.960 be NBA commissioner. I didn't grow wanting to be the 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:52.120 commission I don't even think I had any sense of 0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:54.120 what to do. But you did not go to Duke 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:57.520 on a basketball schollege. I definitely didn't. And and I'm 0:15:57.560 --> 0:16:01.720 pretty sure that when even when I went to law school, 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:04.960 I if somebody had asked me what the NBA commissioner did, 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:07.240 I would have said, he hands out he hands out 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:10.080 rings and you know, intense the schedule. I wouldn't really 0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:12.800 have even understood the joke. You graduated from the Universityicago 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:15.680 law school, you clerk for a federal judge. Then you 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:17.760 went to Krevass Sway and more like a well known 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:20.600 all street firm. And then how did you go from 0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:23.800 there to the NBA? Because a lot of young lawyers 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:25.720 were not happy practicing law. I would love to go 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:27.320 work for the commission in the NBA. I did you 0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:30.360 do that? Honestly? I got incredibly lucky. I um. I 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:33.440 had worked at Kravat for about two years and decided 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:37.080 that I was working one at the time. One of 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:40.200 Crevass big clients was Time Warner and I was doing 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:42.560 working on a lot of media cases and at the 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:45.640 time for HBO in particular, and I became fascinated with 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:49.480 the media business. And uh, well, I was working on 0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:52.920 a particular litigation. I was following what was happening in 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:56.680 sports media and and the move of sports to cable 0:16:56.720 --> 0:16:59.400 television really you know. And it was Ted Turner in 0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:02.200 essence through TVs and then T and T who was 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:08.560 leading that charge. And um, David Stern, Um then the commissioner, 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:12.119 was at the forefront of that movement. And David Stern 0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:14.359 had worked at Proscouer in New York, which was the 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:17.000 same law firm that my father had worked at. And 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:18.840 I didn't know David, but I wrote him a letter 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:21.280 and asked him if he could give me some advice 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:28.119 about transitioning from law into a media job. At the time, 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:30.959 having written a letter, not even thinking about working at 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:33.920 the NBA or understanding what that that this was something 0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:36.600 I could do at the NBA. UM, make a long 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:39.840 story short, he gave me. He you know, this is 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:42.439 pre email, he he. I wrote him a letter, an 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:44.920 old fashioned letter. His assistant called me a few weeks 0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:47.320 later said he can see you on whatever date I 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:49.080 went over. I met with him for a half hour. 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:52.040 He gave me some advice which I didn't follow. And 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:54.520 and then about a month later he called me and 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:55.680 he said, what are you up to? And he said, 0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:58.359 I have an idea, And after a series of meetings, 0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:00.720 he hired me as his assistant. And was my first job. 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:02.560 You got a letter from a young lawyer today, what 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:07.240 would you pass it to our HR department? And UH, 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:11.120 all right? So David Stern, David Stern was a spectacular 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:13.720 commissioner by everybody's account. He did it for thirty years, 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:15.760 and I think he retired when he was like seventy two. 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:19.160 So were you when he was sixty five, sixty six, 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:22.119 sixty seven, sixty eight, sixty nine, seventy Did you say, David, 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:24.440 maybe I'm ready. Did you ever give him a little 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:26.720 push or how did that happen? Never? Never, never, And 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:30.080 and again I was being commissioner of the NBA. Is 0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:32.720 my sixth job at the NBA. And so for five 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:35.520 of those jobs I worked directly for David and he 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:38.840 gave me enormous opportunities. A brilliant guy. Um I ended 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:42.320 up running an entity called NBA Entertainment I was interested 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:44.840 in the media business, sort of the television and media, 0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:48.000 and then became the Internet arm of the NBA. Many 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:50.760 years later, I became the deputy commissioner of the NBA. 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:53.879 But ultimately, you know, David could recommend me, but it 0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:58.120 required the team owners voting me. That's how the commissioners determined, 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:02.600 and he sort of set his own timeline for when 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:04.720 he was going to step down. And I think also 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:06.720 I was very fortunate that the league was in great 0:19:06.720 --> 0:19:08.639 shape at that moment. I assume there could have been 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:10.920 a scenario where things weren't going so well. They might 0:19:10.960 --> 0:19:13.760 have looked outside the NBA. But again, I owe a 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:15.720 lot to David, and I was very fortunate to be 0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:17.440 in that job. So what do you think is the 0:19:17.560 --> 0:19:21.600 leadership trait that you had that enabled Dava to you know, 0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:26.720 think you deserve to be the commissioner? Um, I I think, 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:30.399 you know it nothing necessarily so unique to me. I 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:33.080 was willing to work very hard, and I did work 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:35.600 very hard over the years. I certainly loved the sport 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:39.040 of basketball. I think that much of my job now 0:19:39.440 --> 0:19:43.000 is spent on media. It's the primary revenue source for 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:45.400 the NBA. So the fact that I developed an expertise 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:47.879 and media over the years was very important. I'd say, 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:51.720 I think while certainly being a lawyer isn't prerequisite to 0:19:51.840 --> 0:19:55.159 being UM NBA commissioner, no different than being a lawyer, 0:19:55.160 --> 0:19:57.119 I obviously in your job. But I think you and 0:19:57.160 --> 0:19:58.719 I would say the same thing. I think I think 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:00.680 you'd say the same thing. Having gone to law school, 0:20:00.960 --> 0:20:04.080 learning those skills has been very beneficial. Large part of 0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:07.600 my job is being a professional negotiator, whether it's collective bargaining, 0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:11.240 whether it's commercial relationships that we enter into. So I 0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:12.760 think it was it was all of those skills. A 0:20:12.800 --> 0:20:15.280 lot of your media today and this is contractor with 0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:18.160 the other leagues as social media. You encourage your players 0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:21.200 to be involved in social media. Uh. You encourage uh 0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:24.040 Lebron James, your best known players to really be, if 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:26.680 not controversial, to have public views. Why do you? Why 0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:28.760 do you do that? And it's been helpful to the NBA. Yeah, 0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:32.160 I don't. I don't certainly don't encourage them to be controversial. 0:20:32.200 --> 0:20:35.359 I encourage them to be genuine and earnest about their views, 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:38.040 and I make sure that they know that that within 0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:41.440 certain boundaries. Frankly, I mean I think there's still more 0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:45.119 around issues of decency, not particularly political speech, but I 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:47.679 want them to know that they should feel safe frankly 0:20:47.720 --> 0:20:49.640 as NBA players, and I ultimately think it's in our 0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:53.000 business interest to demonstrate to our fans in the greater community, 0:20:53.040 --> 0:20:56.080 these are multidimensional people that earlier on in my career 0:20:56.080 --> 0:20:57.600 at the NBA, I think when we had the biggest 0:20:57.600 --> 0:21:00.320 issues as a league, and this is before was that 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:04.800 opportunity with social media for players to um have that 0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:07.480 ability to to show who they are directly to fans. 0:21:07.680 --> 0:21:10.480 They were portrayed in many cases as being one dimensional people. 0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:13.360