WEBVTT - How Miranda Rights Work 0:00:01.240 --> 0:00:04.720 Welcome to Stuff You Should Know from House Stuff Works 0:00:04.720 --> 0:00:13.680 dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:19.080 and there's Charles W Chuck Bryant, and um this stuff 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:22.840 you should Know. Jerry just told us right before she 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:26.599 pressed her cord, don't forget to be clever. What is 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:31.880 that about. I don't know, man, I pressure. I'm a 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:34.800 little thrown off right now. Well, I think maybe because 0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:37.920 you said Miranda rights were named after the Sex in 0:00:37.920 --> 0:00:40.080 the City character. Is that what you're talking about. It 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:42.400 was like forty five minutes ago. It's a call back. 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:46.840 So I guess that was clever in Cherry's book. That's 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:49.760 the thing. Like, I didn't even consider that clever, you know, 0:00:50.920 --> 0:00:55.200 juvenile maybe so Miranda from Sex in the City. So 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:58.640 what was your response to that one. I don't remember 0:00:58.640 --> 0:01:01.080 what I said. I thought it was really clever. We'll 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:04.440 just skip over that. You said you have the right 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:09.399 to remain fabulous. Oh yeah, that's right. So that's the 0:01:09.440 --> 0:01:12.120 recap of a conversation we had a little while ago. Everybody, well, 0:01:12.120 --> 0:01:14.119 people always say that I want to know what happens 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:18.520 behind the scenes. Just tomfoolery. There you go, Chuck, I 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:20.800 know that. Uh, you and I have both been arrested 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:23.360 many times and we've done some time in the stir 0:01:23.480 --> 0:01:26.240 and all that, so we know what Miranda rights are. True. 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:32.240 But the average person also knows what Miranda rights are 0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:35.720 because they're so ubiquitous on every cop show, every lawyer show, 0:01:35.800 --> 0:01:38.240 every every show. I think they show up on like 0:01:38.360 --> 0:01:40.920 e er and still and it's on, right, I have 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:44.160 no idea. I'm like season I have no idea. I 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:46.160 don't think it is and I had a pretty good 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:49.720 long run, sure, But Miranda rights are just this thing 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:52.320 that have become totally ingrained in our culture. We can 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:54.720 all say it. Well, let's say it together. You have 0:01:54.800 --> 0:01:57.480 the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and 0:01:57.680 --> 0:01:59.800 will be used against you in a corps of law. 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:01.880 But hey, buddy, don't fret. You have the right to 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:04.680 an attorney, and if you cannot afford one, one will 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:07.880 be appointed to you. Right and then over time, apparently 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:12.079 some agencies have added and if you waive these rights, 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:14.040 you can invoke them at any time. Yeah, I hadn't 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:16.519 heard that one. They know, they hadn't made it to 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:19.400 TV yet, really, right, you know, it just goes like 0:02:20.240 --> 0:02:22.639 I'm not even gonna tell you that. Yeah, Castle, he's 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:26.280 all business. Yeah. Is he a cop though? And I 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:29.440 think he's a private investigator, although I'm not sure. So 0:02:29.480 --> 0:02:32.600 he wouldn't have to mirandize anybody, but he's Castle, so 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:37.560 he does. I've never seen it. I love Nathan Fillin though, 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:40.320 Oh who doesn't. Yeah, he's a nice guy. But this 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:43.240 this idea that Miranda rights are. You know, they're everywhere 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:46.160 and everybody knows them and knows what they You know 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:49.040 that they exist. But the first of all, the case 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:52.400 behind him, I think is probably unknown. And then secondly, 0:02:52.440 --> 0:02:55.720 like what they're designed to do, really, the real nuts 0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:58.480 and bolts of it, I hadn't. It hadn't really occurred 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:00.440 to me, even though it's pretty self ever once you 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:02.800 think about it. Yeah, and it seems really straightforward, but 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:05.800 it can't give a little tricky uh, which will discuss 0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:09.799 how that happens. Well. So the idea of the Miranda 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:14.680 rights is fairly recent. Um goes back to nineteen sixty six, 0:03:15.520 --> 0:03:21.600 the case called Miranda versus Arizona. The Arizona Yeah, yeah, 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:25.680 which is like the legal profession came and be bothered 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:28.600 to include the s when they abbreviate versus you know. 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:31.600 And we should also point out that, UM, it wasn't 0:03:31.639 --> 0:03:35.280 just this one case. Uh, it was Miranda via Arizona 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:37.480 gets all the press because the name Miranda, but it 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:42.000 was actually four cases that they consolidated. UM. But we 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:45.680 want to give Vignera v. New York West over the 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:50.040 United States and California v. Stewart their due as being 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:52.680 part of this thing. And they basically all the cases 0:03:53.120 --> 0:04:00.560 were similar in that the UM there were confessions after interrogations, UM, 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:05.040 and those confessions were used against these various people. Right. 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:09.720 But Miranda though the lawyers of these UM, well not 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:12.840 just us, I mean everybody does. It's called it's the 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:16.960 Miranda case, the Miranda laws, the Miranda rights, your Miranda 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:21.960 I is, you know, UM. But the the the whole 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:24.680 point behind these in all of the cases, the that 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:29.640 the complainants had was that they're the people who committed 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:32.960 these crimes and made these confessions and we're later convicted 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:36.599 for him. We're not aware that they didn't have to 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:40.279 talk to the police. And this is actually the Miranda 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:43.719 case goes back to nineteen six But the American right 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:48.520 guaranteed by the Bill of Rights in the Constitution to 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:52.800 refrain from self incrimination. That goes back to you said, 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:56.200 the Fifth Amendment basically says that you don't have to 0:04:56.200 --> 0:04:59.919 tell on yourself. The cops can't make you talk, is 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:03.600 what that. Yeah, but until nineteen sixty six they I 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:07.760 guess you just needed to be you know, up on 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:11.680 your constitutional knowledge. And then in nineteen sixty six they 0:05:11.720 --> 0:05:13.880 eventually will get to the case. They said, you know, 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:17.720 maybe we should start telling people this when we arrest them. Um. 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:23.640 So let's go back in time to uh in Phoenix, Arizona, UM, 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:28.800 the cops picked up Ernesto Miranda for questioning and a kidnapping. 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:32.680 In rate case, his car was spotted nearer the scene 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:36.600 of the crime. He was called in. When he got there, 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:39.560 he was like, I didn't do this. Man like he 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:41.719 was completely cooperative. He's like, I didn't do any of this. 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:45.840 Two hours later, an interrogation they had he was not 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:49.640 identified in a lineup, but the cops said, the girl 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:52.720 identifies you in the lineup, and he went, oh, well, 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:54.839 I guess I think his direct quote was well, I 0:05:54.839 --> 0:05:58.160 guess I ought to tell you about it then, And 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:00.159 so the cops lied to him. And this is a 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:03.400 clear case of you know, like not doing things the 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:06.159 right way. Well, this no, the Supreme Court is upheld 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:09.480 the use of deception by police in interrogation. They can 0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:12.800 lie their their tails off to you, but not if 0:06:12.839 --> 0:06:15.960 you're not Miranda. I. That was the point is he 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:18.960 didn't know that he could just be quiet and not 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:22.040 say anything, so he just volunteered the information, signed a 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:24.360 written confession. And that's the whole point. And that's what 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:27.239 the justices in the Supreme Court who heard the Miranda 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:29.400 case and all the other cases that combined to make 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:33.840 it um we're getting at was that you, when you 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:37.080 are being interrogated by the place you're in their custody, 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:39.640 they are allowed to use deception. They are allowed to 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:42.880 um use all sorts of tactics to core coerce. You 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:46.640 two talk, But if you're not aware that you don't 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:50.480 have to talk, then what you're saying amounts to an 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:54.560 involuntary confession and hence shouldn't be able to be used 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:58.760 against you because you have a constitutional right against self incrimination. 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:02.320 If you're in for that, you have that right. Then 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:05.640 you are making the decision to go ahead and confess 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:08.680 against yourself, and you're waiving that right. Yes, and that 0:07:08.720 --> 0:07:11.320 can be used in court exactly, so they give you 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:13.960 the option essentially. So this is what the whole case 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:17.120 was about. UM. In nineteen sixty six, like we said, 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:19.560 the Supreme Court heard this case and ruled he was 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:22.960 convicted we should say, based on that confession and sentenced 0:07:22.960 --> 0:07:27.200 to thirty years I believe, and that the Supreme Court 0:07:27.280 --> 0:07:30.600 case was part of an appeal from that three years 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:34.120 later they heard this case. Yeah. And apparently, like the 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:37.480 the other three people probably represent even more than just 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:41.240 those four cases total. Usually when the Supreme Court here's something, 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:44.320 there's a lot of it going on in the courts. UM. 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:46.440 And they said in a five to four decision, you 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:51.760 know what, the the suspect has to be read his rights, 0:07:51.880 --> 0:07:54.200 which will now call his Miranda rights. Yeah. And they 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:58.880 specifically said, UM, prosecution may not use statements stemming from 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:03.840 custodial and terror ation of the defendant unless it demonstrates 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:07.280 the use of procedural safeguards effective to secure the privilege 0:08:07.320 --> 0:08:12.480 against self incrimination. But the key there is custodial interrogation 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:15.160 and established a couple of things. Is one, you can't 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:19.760 self incriminate from the moment you're in custody, um, so 0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:22.320 like it's not like you're on trial or something, and 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:28.480 that any confession is uh involuntary basically. And again the 0:08:28.520 --> 0:08:31.720 reason that they're differentiating between in custody and not in 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:34.760 custody is because once you're in custody, the cops can 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:37.520 do things like lie to you or something like that. 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:41.960 That's right, um. And in custody is the three key 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:45.679 words taken into custody or is where all the gray 0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:49.400 area has been since then and still is today. Yeah, 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:52.520 because they were pretty clear in their ruling, like, yeah, 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:55.200 this person has to be read their rights and how 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:58.040 let's even print some cards for police officers to carry 0:08:58.040 --> 0:09:00.360 around with them so they can read off of card 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:02.520 if they have to. Yeah, and we should point out 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:06.680 that Miranda, actually they retried him without his confession and 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:10.000 his girlfriend, um said he confessed to me, so that 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:12.880 was used in court. So he was found guilty again 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:16.440 since the twenty to thirty years again, paroled after five 0:09:16.559 --> 0:09:20.200 years and then sold those little Miranda cards with his 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:22.880 autograph on him for a while for like a buck fifty. 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:24.520 And then he was stabbed to death in a bar 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:28.560 fight in Yes, and the suspect who stabbed him was 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:31.680 read his Miranda rights and so he never talked and 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:36.480 he walked. Really yeah, oh my god. The irony. It's 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:40.800 definitely irony and like the truest form of the word. 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:44.920 That's right, man. So custodial interrogation is is one of 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:49.280 the keys here. Um, in custody is where it gets 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:52.920 a little hinky. Like if you're in the back of 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:54.600 a police car and you get your handcuffs on, then 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:57.880 you're in custody. That's pretty straightforward. Or even if you 0:09:57.880 --> 0:10:01.080 don't have handcuffs on, if you're if the cops lock 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:04.880 you in the car and you're you're are it's understood 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:07.000 by you that you're not allowed to get out. You're 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:10.319 in police custody. Right. The official definition of custody and 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:14.400 the Mirand decision is quote unquote denial of complete freedom 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:17.680 of action. Right, But that's open to interpretation. You know 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:20.760 it is because, um, you know, if you're being if 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:22.760 you're handcuffed and you're putting the back of a locked 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:26.040 police car, you're obviously denied freedom of action. You obviously 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:28.160 have to be mirandized. Right. You can bang your head 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:30.720 on the little clear glass in front of you, right, 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:33.120 What were you saying in police chases like the the 0:10:33.520 --> 0:10:36.920 you can defecate or urinate or whatever, do whatever you want, 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:42.560 but that is not freedom of action. Um. It's been 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:47.559 brought up though, that because of the um the legal 0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:51.800 authority that cops represent with their uniforms and their outwardly 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:55.280 worn guns and you know, tasers, all that stuff, their 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:58.520 mirroade sunglasses, that they have some sort of um, they 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:03.120 project a sort of uh, just talking to a cop, 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:07.880 a person might feel detained. Yeah, it's an implied UM. Yeah, 0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:10.120 I think it's like an implied detention. Like the cop 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:13.000 came to my front door and said he had some 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:16.040 questions for me regarding a crime. I don't think I 0:11:16.040 --> 0:11:18.680 would feel even though it's within my right, I don't 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:21.439 think I would feel like I was able to say, no, actually, 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:24.120 I'm gonna go to the grocery store right now, right exactly, 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:25.920 and just walk past him and get in my car, 0:11:26.200 --> 0:11:28.680 or even I'm gonna have to ask you guys to leave, 0:11:29.400 --> 0:11:31.480 which again you said it is your right to do. 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:35.720 They haven't placed you into custody, but you you don't 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:38.440 have to be Mirandi's in this situation because you can 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:40.800 tell the cops to leave if you are in an 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:43.560 interrogation room and you tell the cops to leave, they're 0:11:43.559 --> 0:11:46.079 not gonna listen to you. If they're on your front doorstep, 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:48.200 then you tell them to leave. They are supposed to 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:51.000 listen to you, and because of that, you're not being 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:53.200 you You have freedom of movement. You can go back 0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:54.680 in your house, you can go to the grocery store. 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:56.480 You can tell the cops to leave. So even though 0:11:56.480 --> 0:11:59.640 the perception might be that you are being detained by 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:01.600 the cops just by their very presence, and you don't 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:03.560 feel like you can tell them to leave, the law 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:08.240 isn't this. This law isn't designed to let you be slippery, right, 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:11.120 Like a traffic stop, for instance, is a is a 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:15.280 kind of a not weird. But if you get stopped 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:18.839 by a cop and you'd say, um, you know, I've 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:21.640 got five pounds of weed in my trunk, by the way, 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:24.520 mr officer, you caught me, that can be used in 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:28.600 court because that is a non custodial situation, right, which 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:31.800 is weird. Though I didn't realize that a traffic stop 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:34.600 is considered non custodials. That means you can just drive off, 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:41.400 because then if you can't, then that's a custodial situation. 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:44.240 So does that mean that you can drive off legally 0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:47.840 or does that mean that the courts just it is 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:50.320 a gray area that the court of that means you're fleeing. 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:55.320 That means you're evading, evading what arrest the traffic stop. Okay, well, 0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:57.600 then that means you can't leave. You don't have freedom 0:12:57.640 --> 0:13:00.679 of movement. Therefore that's a custodial situation and you should 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:03.320 have to be mirandized when you're pulled over. Well, hey, 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:05.959 you talked to the Supreme Court. My friend, I've been trying. 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:09.320 But I do have a question if there are any 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:14.560 um constitutional lawyers or any kind of lawyer really who 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:17.400 knows what they're talking about. Defense attorney. Um, I'm very 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:20.320 curious about that, Like, are you allowed legally to just 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:22.800 drive off once a cop pulls you over since it's 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:26.920 a non custodial situation. My answer is no. I would 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:30.079 imagine no too, because every time you do, they well, 0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:33.640 because you have committed a crime and the in the 0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:38.679 cop has pulled you over. Maybe uh, I don't know. 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:40.480 I mean that's where the language gets tricky. You're not 0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:44.520 in custody, maybe you're temporary detained. A bit of there's 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:47.839 some specific language that allows for this. And I would 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:50.040 never like argue this with a cop who pulled me over. 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:54.760 That's not what I'm getting a genuinely like, I'm genuinely curious. 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:57.760 If you can't drive off, then how is it a 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:02.080 non constidial situation? That's my question. That's a good question, um. 0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:04.160 But that shows the slippery slope in the gray area, 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:07.120 you know, right, And like you said, I mean if 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:09.000 you say, hey, I've got five pounds of weed in 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:13.000 my trunk and the cop never mirandized you, and then 0:14:13.000 --> 0:14:14.800 after they says, well, you're under arrest, and then he 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:16.960 mirandizes you and you shut up. From that point on, 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:19.840 they can still use that initial exact confession because it 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:22.880 was non custodial. Uh. And here's the other thing. A 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:25.120 lot of people, well not a lot of people, some 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:27.760 folks may be confused by if you're not read your 0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:30.960 miranda rights, then you just you get released or whatever. 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:34.040 Not true at all. That just means that they can't 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:38.680 use what you have said in court, and any ancillary uh, 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:43.000 incriminating evidence that came from that confession can't be used either, right, 0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:45.520 Like if they arrest you and you say they tell 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:49.680 you you're placed under arrest, and then they're like, so, um, 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:53.080 we're going to get some tacos rather than here's what 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:55.840 we have to tell you about your Miranda rights. And 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:59.800 then you say, I've got a bunch of weed on me. Like, 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:03.840 they can't use that confession about the weed two against 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:06.440 you because you hadn't been mirandized. You've been told that 0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:09.400 the cops wanted tacos. Yeah, I wonder what keeps someone 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:16.400 from voluntarily talking about evidence so it won't be Yeah, man, 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:22.120 we are Criminal Minds right here. I'm sure there's workarounds 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:25.000 for all this. We like Mandy Patinken and like the 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:28.680 rest of the cast right here at this table. No, 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:32.360 it Isn'tny in Criminal Minds. I don't know. He's in Homeland. 0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:35.000 I watch that. He's also in The Prince's Pride. He's 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:38.840 in Nego Montoya Monday at Patinken. He was also the 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:41.800 alien cop in Alien Nation. A lot of people don't 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:45.160 know that, but Jimmy Cohn, you never saw Alien Nation. 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:47.480 That was that good. That was a great movie. It 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:50.640 always looked silly to me. I'll tell you what when 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:56.680 you're it is a great movie. Ye, Yeah, it was 0:15:56.680 --> 0:15:58.520 nothing like I had, like a good plot and it 0:15:58.560 --> 0:15:59.880 was like to live in Die in l a with 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:03.960 aliens right or enemy mine on Earth? Yeah, I never 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:06.080 saw that one. It was. It was just kind of 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:08.640 the same deal. It's like it's Lucas A Jr. In 0:16:08.680 --> 0:16:13.560 an alien suit and Dennis Quaid, right, Uh, Randy Quid, 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:17.000 Dennis Quaid. It definitely wasn't Randy. It was Denis Quid. 0:16:17.040 --> 0:16:21.600 I'm pretty sure, all right. So Miranda Rights the requisite 0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:25.800 meandering tangent. Uh. So there's an important thing we haven't 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:28.320 covered yet, um, in regards to Miranda Rights, And it 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:32.000 was recently I got a lot of press with the 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:37.320 bombings in Boston, and that is the public safety exception. Um. 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:41.240 In the case of the the Boston bombing. What was 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:46.280 his name, Uh, Joe Car Sarnia. Okay, so Joe Car. 0:16:46.480 --> 0:16:49.320 Joe Car did Joe Car. There's a lot of ways 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:51.680 to say it that are wrong. And then there's one 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:53.720 right one which I may have had in there. So 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:56.520 he is in the hospital. They everyone knows what happened. 0:16:56.560 --> 0:16:58.880 You know that the bombings went off. The one brother 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:01.880 was killed, they called the other one, uh, and he 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:03.880 was wounded, and so he was in a hospital and 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:07.400 they had what they called an urgent public safety interview 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:11.680 in the hospital without reading him his rights. He's asking 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:14.119 for an attorney. They're like, you're not getting an attorney. 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:16.359 Why why don't you tell us what's going on? And 0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:19.679 he did, Yeah, he did. He confessed the bombing. He 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:22.520 told them about um, possible other bombs. I think that's 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:26.240 how they found out that the apartment was possibly rigged 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:28.560 with explosives, or at very least there were explosives in 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:33.679 his apartment, his brother's apartment. UM. And they found all 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:38.480 this out by denying him his right to keep quiet. Yeah, 0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:41.480 And a lot of people were saying, well, you guys 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:45.080 just blew the case. You guys, why didn't you mirandize him? 0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:47.879 And it was because of this public safety exemption that 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:52.160 came about UM that the Supreme Court ruled on in Yeah, 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:57.639 New York v. Quarrels. Benjamin Quarrels was in custody at 0:17:57.640 --> 0:18:00.479 a grocery store in nineteen eighty and rape victim had 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:03.640 identified him and the cop frisked him and said, hey, 0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:06.439 you've got an empty gun holster. Here is there a 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:08.680 gun nearby? And he was like, yeah, it's right over there. 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:13.560 Cop went, got the gun unloaded. It obviously secured the scene, 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:19.080 and that became a court case because he was the 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:22.520 gun evidence was thrown out. An appellate court agreed, and 0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:24.760 then later on the Supreme Court said, no, you know 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:29.960 what that's called. Uh, you know, securing the scene. That's 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:32.879 a public safety exception. You can't have a gun loaded 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:35.119 gun in there. You can't have bombs waiting to go 0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:39.080 off potentially somewhere else. So forget the mirandizing. You need 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:42.639 to secure everything, right and um, once that, once that 0:18:42.840 --> 0:18:45.800 threat to public safety is secured, then you have to 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:48.359 mirandize them. Yeah, in which the Boston case, he just 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:52.240 shut up after that, so too late. Yeah, exactly, the 0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:54.119 feds had gotten all they wanted out of him, and 0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:56.919 we're like, sure, whatever, And apparently a judge ordered the 0:18:56.920 --> 0:18:59.560 FEDS to mirandize the guy after like two days of 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:02.399 this quiet questioning. I bet that was a pretty satisfying 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:05.159 reading of the rights at that point. I'm sure, you know, 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:06.760 because they knew they were covered. But I mean, this 0:19:06.880 --> 0:19:10.720 is such a gestapo tactic too, Like we'll this question 0:19:10.800 --> 0:19:12.560 you about everything we want for two days until the 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:15.239 judge ordered us to mirandi is that means that some 0:19:15.320 --> 0:19:18.320 attorneys are gonna have to go through all two days 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:21.280 of that confession to pick out what at what point 0:19:21.440 --> 0:19:24.880 the public safety exemption was basically exhausted. And I mean, 0:19:24.920 --> 0:19:26.879 you can argue that any question that has to do 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:32.760 with possible future terrorist attacks is you know, preventing or 0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:36.960 protecting public safety. Yeah, but it's just like, uh, I mean, 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:39.640 I don't know, it definitely skirts the spirit of the law. 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:42.840 I would think, Yeah, And I found an article written 0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:49.320 by the guy who originally I think wrote the Quarrels verdict, 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:51.959 and he he was like, you know what, in the 0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:55.600 case with the Boston bomber, you they shouldn't even done 0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:58.040 that anyway, because it was so much evidence. They didn't 0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:02.119 even need these confessions, and it wasn't the true spirit 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:03.919 of trying to secure public safety to find if there 0:20:03.960 --> 0:20:06.960 was other explosives. But from that point on they were 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:10.800 like it was completely unnecessary because the guy was convicted 0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:13.919 just from you know, the evidence was so strong that 0:20:13.960 --> 0:20:17.320 they didn't even need that confession exactly. So like after 0:20:17.720 --> 0:20:19.840 they found out about the bombs or whatever, whether their 0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:22.280 word weren't bombs, then it seems to me like the 0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:25.200 public safety exemption would have been exhausted and they would 0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:27.479 have had to have mirandized him. It's a slippery slope. 0:20:27.520 --> 0:20:29.600 But I mean, it's not like the CIA has to have, 0:20:30.320 --> 0:20:33.320 you know, admissible evidence in court to go after all 0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:37.600 the people that um Joe kar named, if he named 0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:42.680 anybody or whatever he gave up, you know. So it's 0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:46.919 just I don't know. Yeah, I'm coming to trust like 0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:52.800 Obama's security policies like less and less. That's my opinion. No, 0:20:53.040 --> 0:20:55.520 I get it. It's it's a it's a very fine 0:20:55.560 --> 0:20:59.000 line between like, hey, this guy's a terrorist and get 0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:03.040 that information or people still have their human rights right exactly. 0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:06.080 And it's such a difficult thing to to swallow to 0:21:06.280 --> 0:21:10.199 the concept that some little punk who him and his 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:13.959 brother blew people up in Boston and took people's lives 0:21:13.960 --> 0:21:17.720 and legs and that they did this, that the concept 0:21:17.760 --> 0:21:22.119 that they have any rights whatsoever is pretty unpalatable. But 0:21:22.760 --> 0:21:25.399 we as a society have decided that, yeah, you do 0:21:25.480 --> 0:21:27.800 have rights. If you're an American system, you have certain 0:21:27.880 --> 0:21:30.120 rights that are guaranteed by the Constitution and the Bill 0:21:30.160 --> 0:21:34.199 of Rights and and court interpretation of those rights. And 0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:38.960 that's the law of the land, and um, I guess 0:21:38.960 --> 0:21:45.440 to just routinely skirt around those whenever, whenever it's determined 0:21:45.480 --> 0:21:47.879 to be called for by whoever is in charge and power. 0:21:48.760 --> 0:21:54.160 That's that's equally impalatable. Impalatable to me because also, um, 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:58.679 you know, the courts judged a criminal suspect when you 0:21:58.720 --> 0:22:01.840 invoke the public safety option, it's not that that person 0:22:01.880 --> 0:22:05.679 doesn't have any rights, it's that the safety of the 0:22:05.720 --> 0:22:10.000 public trump set person's constitutional rights right then, but just 0:22:10.119 --> 0:22:13.280 for that narrow window of time, and then after that 0:22:13.359 --> 0:22:16.280 it's exhausted. That's right. And this is not the first time. 0:22:16.720 --> 0:22:19.360 It was just three years ago that the FEDS did 0:22:19.400 --> 0:22:21.760 the same thing. They invoked the public safety exemption for 0:22:21.800 --> 0:22:24.359 the Times Square bomber. Yeah, and he sang like a canary, 0:22:24.520 --> 0:22:27.399 which is if they just did it to Joe Carson Naiev, 0:22:28.359 --> 0:22:30.040 I don't think I would have a problem. But just 0:22:30.080 --> 0:22:32.160 the fact that it popped up three years ago too, 0:22:33.160 --> 0:22:36.520 that's starting an indicate a pattern to me. Yeah, terrorism, 0:22:36.560 --> 0:22:40.720 I think is the key. Yeah, key agent there you know, 0:22:42.200 --> 0:22:45.480