1 00:00:01,240 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know from House Stuff Works 2 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, 3 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:19,080 Speaker 1: and there's Charles W Chuck Bryant, and um this stuff 4 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: you should Know. Jerry just told us right before she 5 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:26,599 Speaker 1: pressed her cord, don't forget to be clever. What is 6 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: that about. I don't know, man, I pressure. I'm a 7 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: little thrown off right now. Well, I think maybe because 8 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 1: you said Miranda rights were named after the Sex in 9 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: the City character. Is that what you're talking about. It 10 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: was like forty five minutes ago. It's a call back. 11 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:46,840 Speaker 1: So I guess that was clever in Cherry's book. That's 12 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: the thing. Like, I didn't even consider that clever, you know, 13 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: juvenile maybe so Miranda from Sex in the City. So 14 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 1: what was your response to that one. I don't remember 15 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 1: what I said. I thought it was really clever. We'll 16 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: just skip over that. You said you have the right 17 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:09,399 Speaker 1: to remain fabulous. Oh yeah, that's right. So that's the 18 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 1: recap of a conversation we had a little while ago. Everybody, well, 19 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:14,119 Speaker 1: people always say that I want to know what happens 20 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: behind the scenes. Just tomfoolery. There you go, Chuck, I 21 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: know that. Uh, you and I have both been arrested 22 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: many times and we've done some time in the stir 23 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: and all that, so we know what Miranda rights are. True. 24 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 1: But the average person also knows what Miranda rights are 25 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: because they're so ubiquitous on every cop show, every lawyer show, 26 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: every every show. I think they show up on like 27 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 1: e er and still and it's on, right, I have 28 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: no idea. I'm like season I have no idea. I 29 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: don't think it is and I had a pretty good 30 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: long run, sure, But Miranda rights are just this thing 31 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: that have become totally ingrained in our culture. We can 32 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: all say it. Well, let's say it together. You have 33 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and 34 00:01:57,680 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: will be used against you in a corps of law. 35 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: But hey, buddy, don't fret. You have the right to 36 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: an attorney, and if you cannot afford one, one will 37 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: be appointed to you. Right and then over time, apparently 38 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:12,079 Speaker 1: some agencies have added and if you waive these rights, 39 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 1: you can invoke them at any time. Yeah, I hadn't 40 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,519 Speaker 1: heard that one. They know, they hadn't made it to 41 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: TV yet, really, right, you know, it just goes like 42 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:22,639 Speaker 1: I'm not even gonna tell you that. Yeah, Castle, he's 43 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 1: all business. Yeah. Is he a cop though? And I 44 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: think he's a private investigator, although I'm not sure. So 45 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: he wouldn't have to mirandize anybody, but he's Castle, so 46 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: he does. I've never seen it. I love Nathan Fillin though, 47 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: Oh who doesn't. Yeah, he's a nice guy. But this 48 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 1: this idea that Miranda rights are. You know, they're everywhere 49 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 1: and everybody knows them and knows what they You know 50 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: that they exist. But the first of all, the case 51 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 1: behind him, I think is probably unknown. And then secondly, 52 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 1: like what they're designed to do, really, the real nuts 53 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: and bolts of it, I hadn't. It hadn't really occurred 54 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: to me, even though it's pretty self ever once you 55 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 1: think about it. Yeah, and it seems really straightforward, but 56 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:05,800 Speaker 1: it can't give a little tricky uh, which will discuss 57 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:09,799 Speaker 1: how that happens. Well. So the idea of the Miranda 58 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 1: rights is fairly recent. Um goes back to nineteen sixty six, 59 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: the case called Miranda versus Arizona. The Arizona Yeah, yeah, 60 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 1: which is like the legal profession came and be bothered 61 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: to include the s when they abbreviate versus you know. 62 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 1: And we should also point out that, UM, it wasn't 63 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: just this one case. Uh, it was Miranda via Arizona 64 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: gets all the press because the name Miranda, but it 65 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 1: was actually four cases that they consolidated. UM. But we 66 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 1: want to give Vignera v. New York West over the 67 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: United States and California v. Stewart their due as being 68 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: part of this thing. And they basically all the cases 69 00:03:53,120 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: were similar in that the UM there were confessions after interrogations, UM, 70 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: and those confessions were used against these various people. Right. 71 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: But Miranda though the lawyers of these UM, well not 72 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 1: just us, I mean everybody does. It's called it's the 73 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: Miranda case, the Miranda laws, the Miranda rights, your Miranda 74 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: I is, you know, UM. But the the the whole 75 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: point behind these in all of the cases, the that 76 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: the complainants had was that they're the people who committed 77 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: these crimes and made these confessions and we're later convicted 78 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 1: for him. We're not aware that they didn't have to 79 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:40,279 Speaker 1: talk to the police. And this is actually the Miranda 80 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 1: case goes back to nineteen six But the American right 81 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 1: guaranteed by the Bill of Rights in the Constitution to 82 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 1: refrain from self incrimination. That goes back to you said, 83 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 1: the Fifth Amendment basically says that you don't have to 84 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,919 Speaker 1: tell on yourself. The cops can't make you talk, is 85 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,600 Speaker 1: what that. Yeah, but until nineteen sixty six they I 86 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: guess you just needed to be you know, up on 87 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 1: your constitutional knowledge. And then in nineteen sixty six they 88 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: eventually will get to the case. They said, you know, 89 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:17,720 Speaker 1: maybe we should start telling people this when we arrest them. Um. 90 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: So let's go back in time to uh in Phoenix, Arizona, UM, 91 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 1: the cops picked up Ernesto Miranda for questioning and a kidnapping. 92 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 1: In rate case, his car was spotted nearer the scene 93 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:36,600 Speaker 1: of the crime. He was called in. When he got there, 94 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: he was like, I didn't do this. Man like he 95 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:41,719 Speaker 1: was completely cooperative. He's like, I didn't do any of this. 96 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:45,840 Speaker 1: Two hours later, an interrogation they had he was not 97 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: identified in a lineup, but the cops said, the girl 98 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,720 Speaker 1: identifies you in the lineup, and he went, oh, well, 99 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:54,839 Speaker 1: I guess I think his direct quote was well, I 100 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:58,160 Speaker 1: guess I ought to tell you about it then, And 101 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:00,159 Speaker 1: so the cops lied to him. And this is a 102 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: clear case of you know, like not doing things the 103 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 1: right way. Well, this no, the Supreme Court is upheld 104 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 1: the use of deception by police in interrogation. They can 105 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: lie their their tails off to you, but not if 106 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: you're not Miranda. I. That was the point is he 107 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: didn't know that he could just be quiet and not 108 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:22,040 Speaker 1: say anything, so he just volunteered the information, signed a 109 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:24,360 Speaker 1: written confession. And that's the whole point. And that's what 110 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:27,239 Speaker 1: the justices in the Supreme Court who heard the Miranda 111 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: case and all the other cases that combined to make 112 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:33,840 Speaker 1: it um we're getting at was that you, when you 113 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: are being interrogated by the place you're in their custody, 114 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 1: they are allowed to use deception. They are allowed to 115 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: um use all sorts of tactics to core coerce. You 116 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: two talk, But if you're not aware that you don't 117 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 1: have to talk, then what you're saying amounts to an 118 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 1: involuntary confession and hence shouldn't be able to be used 119 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: against you because you have a constitutional right against self incrimination. 120 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 1: If you're in for that, you have that right. Then 121 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: you are making the decision to go ahead and confess 122 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: against yourself, and you're waiving that right. Yes, and that 123 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: can be used in court exactly, so they give you 124 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: the option essentially. So this is what the whole case 125 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: was about. UM. In nineteen sixty six, like we said, 126 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court heard this case and ruled he was 127 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: convicted we should say, based on that confession and sentenced 128 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 1: to thirty years I believe, and that the Supreme Court 129 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 1: case was part of an appeal from that three years 130 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: later they heard this case. Yeah. And apparently, like the 131 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: the other three people probably represent even more than just 132 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: those four cases total. Usually when the Supreme Court here's something, 133 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: there's a lot of it going on in the courts. UM. 134 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: And they said in a five to four decision, you 135 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: know what, the the suspect has to be read his rights, 136 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: which will now call his Miranda rights. Yeah. And they 137 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 1: specifically said, UM, prosecution may not use statements stemming from 138 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: custodial and terror ation of the defendant unless it demonstrates 139 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: the use of procedural safeguards effective to secure the privilege 140 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: against self incrimination. But the key there is custodial interrogation 141 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 1: and established a couple of things. Is one, you can't 142 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: self incriminate from the moment you're in custody, um, so 143 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 1: like it's not like you're on trial or something, and 144 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 1: that any confession is uh involuntary basically. And again the 145 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: reason that they're differentiating between in custody and not in 146 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: custody is because once you're in custody, the cops can 147 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: do things like lie to you or something like that. 148 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 1: That's right, um. And in custody is the three key 149 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,679 Speaker 1: words taken into custody or is where all the gray 150 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 1: area has been since then and still is today. Yeah, 151 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 1: because they were pretty clear in their ruling, like, yeah, 152 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 1: this person has to be read their rights and how 153 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: let's even print some cards for police officers to carry 154 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: around with them so they can read off of card 155 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: if they have to. Yeah, and we should point out 156 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 1: that Miranda, actually they retried him without his confession and 157 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 1: his girlfriend, um said he confessed to me, so that 158 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: was used in court. So he was found guilty again 159 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 1: since the twenty to thirty years again, paroled after five 160 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 1: years and then sold those little Miranda cards with his 161 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: autograph on him for a while for like a buck fifty. 162 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 1: And then he was stabbed to death in a bar 163 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 1: fight in Yes, and the suspect who stabbed him was 164 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 1: read his Miranda rights and so he never talked and 165 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: he walked. Really yeah, oh my god. The irony. It's 166 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: definitely irony and like the truest form of the word. 167 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 1: That's right, man. So custodial interrogation is is one of 168 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: the keys here. Um, in custody is where it gets 169 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: a little hinky. Like if you're in the back of 170 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: a police car and you get your handcuffs on, then 171 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 1: you're in custody. That's pretty straightforward. Or even if you 172 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 1: don't have handcuffs on, if you're if the cops lock 173 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 1: you in the car and you're you're are it's understood 174 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 1: by you that you're not allowed to get out. You're 175 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:10,319 Speaker 1: in police custody. Right. The official definition of custody and 176 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: the Mirand decision is quote unquote denial of complete freedom 177 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:17,680 Speaker 1: of action. Right, But that's open to interpretation. You know 178 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: it is because, um, you know, if you're being if 179 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: you're handcuffed and you're putting the back of a locked 180 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: police car, you're obviously denied freedom of action. You obviously 181 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: have to be mirandized. Right. You can bang your head 182 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 1: on the little clear glass in front of you, right, 183 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: What were you saying in police chases like the the 184 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: you can defecate or urinate or whatever, do whatever you want, 185 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 1: but that is not freedom of action. Um. It's been 186 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:47,559 Speaker 1: brought up though, that because of the um the legal 187 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: authority that cops represent with their uniforms and their outwardly 188 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: worn guns and you know, tasers, all that stuff, their 189 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 1: mirroade sunglasses, that they have some sort of um, they 190 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: project a sort of uh, just talking to a cop, 191 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: a person might feel detained. Yeah, it's an implied UM. Yeah, 192 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: I think it's like an implied detention. Like the cop 193 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: came to my front door and said he had some 194 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: questions for me regarding a crime. I don't think I 195 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:18,680 Speaker 1: would feel even though it's within my right, I don't 196 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,439 Speaker 1: think I would feel like I was able to say, no, actually, 197 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to the grocery store right now, right exactly, 198 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 1: and just walk past him and get in my car, 199 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:28,680 Speaker 1: or even I'm gonna have to ask you guys to leave, 200 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 1: which again you said it is your right to do. 201 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 1: They haven't placed you into custody, but you you don't 202 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:38,440 Speaker 1: have to be Mirandi's in this situation because you can 203 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 1: tell the cops to leave if you are in an 204 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 1: interrogation room and you tell the cops to leave, they're 205 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:46,079 Speaker 1: not gonna listen to you. If they're on your front doorstep, 206 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 1: then you tell them to leave. They are supposed to 207 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: listen to you, and because of that, you're not being 208 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 1: you You have freedom of movement. You can go back 209 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:54,680 Speaker 1: in your house, you can go to the grocery store. 210 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 1: You can tell the cops to leave. So even though 211 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: the perception might be that you are being detained by 212 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 1: the cops just by their very presence, and you don't 213 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 1: feel like you can tell them to leave, the law 214 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 1: isn't this. This law isn't designed to let you be slippery, right, 215 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 1: Like a traffic stop, for instance, is a is a 216 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 1: kind of a not weird. But if you get stopped 217 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:18,839 Speaker 1: by a cop and you'd say, um, you know, I've 218 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 1: got five pounds of weed in my trunk, by the way, 219 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: mr officer, you caught me, that can be used in 220 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 1: court because that is a non custodial situation, right, which 221 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: is weird. Though I didn't realize that a traffic stop 222 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 1: is considered non custodials. That means you can just drive off, 223 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 1: because then if you can't, then that's a custodial situation. 224 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: So does that mean that you can drive off legally 225 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: or does that mean that the courts just it is 226 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 1: a gray area that the court of that means you're fleeing. 227 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 1: That means you're evading, evading what arrest the traffic stop. Okay, well, 228 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 1: then that means you can't leave. You don't have freedom 229 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:00,679 Speaker 1: of movement. Therefore that's a custodial situation and you should 230 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 1: have to be mirandized when you're pulled over. Well, hey, 231 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:05,959 Speaker 1: you talked to the Supreme Court. My friend, I've been trying. 232 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 1: But I do have a question if there are any 233 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:14,560 Speaker 1: um constitutional lawyers or any kind of lawyer really who 234 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 1: knows what they're talking about. Defense attorney. Um, I'm very 235 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:20,320 Speaker 1: curious about that, Like, are you allowed legally to just 236 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 1: drive off once a cop pulls you over since it's 237 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: a non custodial situation. My answer is no. I would 238 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:30,079 Speaker 1: imagine no too, because every time you do, they well, 239 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 1: because you have committed a crime and the in the 240 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:38,679 Speaker 1: cop has pulled you over. Maybe uh, I don't know. 241 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 1: I mean that's where the language gets tricky. You're not 242 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 1: in custody, maybe you're temporary detained. A bit of there's 243 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,839 Speaker 1: some specific language that allows for this. And I would 244 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 1: never like argue this with a cop who pulled me over. 245 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: That's not what I'm getting a genuinely like, I'm genuinely curious. 246 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: If you can't drive off, then how is it a 247 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 1: non constidial situation? That's my question. That's a good question, um. 248 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 1: But that shows the slippery slope in the gray area, 249 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: you know, right, And like you said, I mean if 250 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 1: you say, hey, I've got five pounds of weed in 251 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: my trunk and the cop never mirandized you, and then 252 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: after they says, well, you're under arrest, and then he 253 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:16,960 Speaker 1: mirandizes you and you shut up. From that point on, 254 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: they can still use that initial exact confession because it 255 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 1: was non custodial. Uh. And here's the other thing. A 256 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: lot of people, well not a lot of people, some 257 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: folks may be confused by if you're not read your 258 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: miranda rights, then you just you get released or whatever. 259 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 1: Not true at all. That just means that they can't 260 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: use what you have said in court, and any ancillary uh, 261 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: incriminating evidence that came from that confession can't be used either, right, 262 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: Like if they arrest you and you say they tell 263 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: you you're placed under arrest, and then they're like, so, um, 264 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: we're going to get some tacos rather than here's what 265 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 1: we have to tell you about your Miranda rights. And 266 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 1: then you say, I've got a bunch of weed on me. Like, 267 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 1: they can't use that confession about the weed two against 268 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: you because you hadn't been mirandized. You've been told that 269 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: the cops wanted tacos. Yeah, I wonder what keeps someone 270 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: from voluntarily talking about evidence so it won't be Yeah, man, 271 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: we are Criminal Minds right here. I'm sure there's workarounds 272 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: for all this. We like Mandy Patinken and like the 273 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: rest of the cast right here at this table. No, 274 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 1: it Isn'tny in Criminal Minds. I don't know. He's in Homeland. 275 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 1: I watch that. He's also in The Prince's Pride. He's 276 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: in Nego Montoya Monday at Patinken. He was also the 277 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: alien cop in Alien Nation. A lot of people don't 278 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 1: know that, but Jimmy Cohn, you never saw Alien Nation. 279 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: That was that good. That was a great movie. It 280 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: always looked silly to me. I'll tell you what when 281 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: you're it is a great movie. Ye, Yeah, it was 282 00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 1: nothing like I had, like a good plot and it 283 00:15:58,560 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: was like to live in Die in l a with 284 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 1: aliens right or enemy mine on Earth? Yeah, I never 285 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 1: saw that one. It was. It was just kind of 286 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: the same deal. It's like it's Lucas A Jr. In 287 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: an alien suit and Dennis Quaid, right, Uh, Randy Quid, 288 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 1: Dennis Quaid. It definitely wasn't Randy. It was Denis Quid. 289 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure, all right. So Miranda Rights the requisite 290 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 1: meandering tangent. Uh. So there's an important thing we haven't 291 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 1: covered yet, um, in regards to Miranda Rights, And it 292 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: was recently I got a lot of press with the 293 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 1: bombings in Boston, and that is the public safety exception. Um. 294 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 1: In the case of the the Boston bombing. What was 295 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: his name, Uh, Joe Car Sarnia. Okay, so Joe Car. 296 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 1: Joe Car did Joe Car. There's a lot of ways 297 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 1: to say it that are wrong. And then there's one 298 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 1: right one which I may have had in there. So 299 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 1: he is in the hospital. They everyone knows what happened. 300 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: You know that the bombings went off. The one brother 301 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: was killed, they called the other one, uh, and he 302 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 1: was wounded, and so he was in a hospital and 303 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:07,400 Speaker 1: they had what they called an urgent public safety interview 304 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:11,680 Speaker 1: in the hospital without reading him his rights. He's asking 305 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:14,119 Speaker 1: for an attorney. They're like, you're not getting an attorney. 306 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 1: Why why don't you tell us what's going on? And 307 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:19,679 Speaker 1: he did, Yeah, he did. He confessed the bombing. He 308 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 1: told them about um, possible other bombs. I think that's 309 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 1: how they found out that the apartment was possibly rigged 310 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 1: with explosives, or at very least there were explosives in 311 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:33,679 Speaker 1: his apartment, his brother's apartment. UM. And they found all 312 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 1: this out by denying him his right to keep quiet. Yeah, 313 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 1: And a lot of people were saying, well, you guys 314 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 1: just blew the case. You guys, why didn't you mirandize him? 315 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:47,879 Speaker 1: And it was because of this public safety exemption that 316 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:52,160 Speaker 1: came about UM that the Supreme Court ruled on in Yeah, 317 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:57,639 Speaker 1: New York v. Quarrels. Benjamin Quarrels was in custody at 318 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:00,479 Speaker 1: a grocery store in nineteen eighty and rape victim had 319 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,640 Speaker 1: identified him and the cop frisked him and said, hey, 320 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:06,439 Speaker 1: you've got an empty gun holster. Here is there a 321 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:08,680 Speaker 1: gun nearby? And he was like, yeah, it's right over there. 322 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: Cop went, got the gun unloaded. It obviously secured the scene, 323 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: and that became a court case because he was the 324 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 1: gun evidence was thrown out. An appellate court agreed, and 325 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 1: then later on the Supreme Court said, no, you know 326 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 1: what that's called. Uh, you know, securing the scene. That's 327 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,879 Speaker 1: a public safety exception. You can't have a gun loaded 328 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 1: gun in there. You can't have bombs waiting to go 329 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 1: off potentially somewhere else. So forget the mirandizing. You need 330 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:42,639 Speaker 1: to secure everything, right and um, once that, once that 331 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 1: threat to public safety is secured, then you have to 332 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 1: mirandize them. Yeah, in which the Boston case, he just 333 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 1: shut up after that, so too late. Yeah, exactly, the 334 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:54,119 Speaker 1: feds had gotten all they wanted out of him, and 335 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:56,919 Speaker 1: we're like, sure, whatever, And apparently a judge ordered the 336 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 1: FEDS to mirandize the guy after like two days of 337 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 1: this quiet questioning. I bet that was a pretty satisfying 338 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:05,159 Speaker 1: reading of the rights at that point. I'm sure, you know, 339 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 1: because they knew they were covered. But I mean, this 340 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 1: is such a gestapo tactic too, Like we'll this question 341 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 1: you about everything we want for two days until the 342 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,239 Speaker 1: judge ordered us to mirandi is that means that some 343 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 1: attorneys are gonna have to go through all two days 344 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 1: of that confession to pick out what at what point 345 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:24,880 Speaker 1: the public safety exemption was basically exhausted. And I mean, 346 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:26,879 Speaker 1: you can argue that any question that has to do 347 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: with possible future terrorist attacks is you know, preventing or 348 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 1: protecting public safety. Yeah, but it's just like, uh, I mean, 349 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:39,640 Speaker 1: I don't know, it definitely skirts the spirit of the law. 350 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 1: I would think, Yeah, And I found an article written 351 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 1: by the guy who originally I think wrote the Quarrels verdict, 352 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:51,959 Speaker 1: and he he was like, you know what, in the 353 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: case with the Boston bomber, you they shouldn't even done 354 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 1: that anyway, because it was so much evidence. They didn't 355 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:02,119 Speaker 1: even need these confessions, and it wasn't the true spirit 356 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:03,919 Speaker 1: of trying to secure public safety to find if there 357 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 1: was other explosives. But from that point on they were 358 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 1: like it was completely unnecessary because the guy was convicted 359 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,919 Speaker 1: just from you know, the evidence was so strong that 360 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 1: they didn't even need that confession exactly. So like after 361 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: they found out about the bombs or whatever, whether their 362 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 1: word weren't bombs, then it seems to me like the 363 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:25,200 Speaker 1: public safety exemption would have been exhausted and they would 364 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,479 Speaker 1: have had to have mirandized him. It's a slippery slope. 365 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 1: But I mean, it's not like the CIA has to have, 366 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 1: you know, admissible evidence in court to go after all 367 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: the people that um Joe kar named, if he named 368 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:42,680 Speaker 1: anybody or whatever he gave up, you know. So it's 369 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:46,919 Speaker 1: just I don't know. Yeah, I'm coming to trust like 370 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 1: Obama's security policies like less and less. That's my opinion. No, 371 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: I get it. It's it's a it's a very fine 372 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 1: line between like, hey, this guy's a terrorist and get 373 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: that information or people still have their human rights right exactly. 374 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: And it's such a difficult thing to to swallow to 375 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:10,199 Speaker 1: the concept that some little punk who him and his 376 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:13,959 Speaker 1: brother blew people up in Boston and took people's lives 377 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 1: and legs and that they did this, that the concept 378 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 1: that they have any rights whatsoever is pretty unpalatable. But 379 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 1: we as a society have decided that, yeah, you do 380 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: have rights. If you're an American system, you have certain 381 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:30,120 Speaker 1: rights that are guaranteed by the Constitution and the Bill 382 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:34,199 Speaker 1: of Rights and and court interpretation of those rights. And 383 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 1: that's the law of the land, and um, I guess 384 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:45,440 Speaker 1: to just routinely skirt around those whenever, whenever it's determined 385 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,879 Speaker 1: to be called for by whoever is in charge and power. 386 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:54,160 Speaker 1: That's that's equally impalatable. Impalatable to me because also, um, 387 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:58,679 Speaker 1: you know, the courts judged a criminal suspect when you 388 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: invoke the public safety option, it's not that that person 389 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:05,679 Speaker 1: doesn't have any rights, it's that the safety of the 390 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 1: public trump set person's constitutional rights right then, but just 391 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 1: for that narrow window of time, and then after that 392 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 1: it's exhausted. That's right. And this is not the first time. 393 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,360 Speaker 1: It was just three years ago that the FEDS did 394 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 1: the same thing. They invoked the public safety exemption for 395 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,359 Speaker 1: the Times Square bomber. Yeah, and he sang like a canary, 396 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:27,399 Speaker 1: which is if they just did it to Joe Carson Naiev, 397 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 1: I don't think I would have a problem. But just 398 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,160 Speaker 1: the fact that it popped up three years ago too, 399 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: that's starting an indicate a pattern to me. Yeah, terrorism, 400 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 1: I think is the key. Yeah, key agent there you know, 401 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 1: anything else, I'm done, then we're gonna get so much 402 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:47,959 Speaker 1: mail for that one. Hey, buddy, you have the right 403 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,439 Speaker 1: to remain fabulous thank you. That's my takeaway. Thank you. 404 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 1: If you want to learn more about being fabulous, you 405 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 1: can type that word into the search bart how stuff 406 00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: works dot com. You can also type Miranda Rights m 407 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 1: I R A N D A Rights. Uh. And since 408 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:10,680 Speaker 1: I said search bars somewhere in there, it's time for message, 409 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 1: and now it's time for listening to mail. Yeah. Before 410 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: listener mail, we have a quick shout out. And we 411 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,960 Speaker 1: don't usually do this because we get inundated with requests 412 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,639 Speaker 1: for shoutouts. Yeah, so every once in a a while they 413 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,920 Speaker 1: at the right time exactly. This is an anniversary shout 414 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:31,120 Speaker 1: out from Josh Underwood. Uh. He and his wife are 415 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:36,159 Speaker 1: teachers in uh Robertson County, Kentucky, and they've listen to 416 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,640 Speaker 1: our show incorporated in their classrooms and they are celebrating 417 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 1: their tenure anniversary. And uh, he said, if we could 418 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 1: say happy anniversary to Amanda, it would can't think of 419 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:49,120 Speaker 1: anything that would make her smile more so on June fourteenth, 420 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:50,400 Speaker 1: and he said, if it's late, and you know, don't 421 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:52,360 Speaker 1: worry about it. So this is probably gonna be late, 422 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 1: but I hope you guys had a great anniversary. On 423 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 1: June fourteen, Happy tenth Josh and Amanda Underwood. Yeah, happy 424 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,040 Speaker 1: anniversary you guys. Or I don't know if I'm and 425 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:04,200 Speaker 1: it took your name whatever her name might be. Yeah, 426 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: so the real listener male speaking of taking names. Uh, 427 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: it's a good one and I'm gonna call it Royal 428 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:14,200 Speaker 1: Tannon Bombs. Uh theory. Oh I like this already. Yeah, 429 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,400 Speaker 1: it's one of my favorite movies, Losing a finger, you know, 430 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 1: boy chopping actor. Hi, guys, my wife Molly and I've 431 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:23,880 Speaker 1: been listening for about three years. We both love it. Um. 432 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:25,680 Speaker 1: I've always wanted to email you, but I didn't have 433 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:27,879 Speaker 1: a reason, and I didn't want to sound like a 434 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: twelve year old girl talking to in sync or something. 435 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 1: Those guys pretty out of touch. Yeah, I guess it's 436 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 1: nineteen four. I wanted to say something interesting. So here 437 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,480 Speaker 1: are two interesting things. One, my name is Josh Bryant. 438 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,239 Speaker 1: Pretty interesting. It's like the two of us together, right. 439 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:48,159 Speaker 1: I appreciate you taking my name. Uh. Number two he 440 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,959 Speaker 1: actually had three things, but one wasn't so interesting. Uh. 441 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 1: Number two is I watched Wes Anderson Toroyal Tannonbombs was amazing, 442 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,399 Speaker 1: how different and unique all the characters were and how 443 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:58,920 Speaker 1: well they all worked together as a family. After reading 444 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:00,639 Speaker 1: other theories about the movie, I think the one I 445 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 1: love most is that every character represents a different stage 446 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: of grief. So Denial I collect fan theories. Oh I 447 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 1: love it. That is a great one. Have you seen 448 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 1: Room two thirty seven? Yet no of you know I'm 449 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: dying to them. They didn't release it in Atlanta. Um alright. 450 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:22,200 Speaker 1: So Denial is Margot Tannembaum, her unknown smoking habit, numerous marriages, 451 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:27,400 Speaker 1: secret crush on Richie, totally denial, anger, Chaz Tannebaum, need 452 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 1: I say more? Pretty much throughout the whole movie, he's 453 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: angry and full of resentment, bargaining royal Tannebaum himself. He 454 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 1: lies to get out of bad gambles and gambles to 455 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,919 Speaker 1: cover up bad lies. This is like pretty good and 456 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 1: he didn't make this up. He got off then after 457 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 1: that's still good. But Joshua Bryant, you getting no credit. 458 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,160 Speaker 1: It's like that kid who stole that high ku from 459 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:51,880 Speaker 1: a T shirt and um depression. Richie Tannebomb again very obvious, 460 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 1: sees when he tries to see when he tries to 461 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:59,680 Speaker 1: commit suicide. Great scene, uh An acceptance is ethylene Tannenbaum. 462 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 1: Her is more subtle. Her acceptance is seen when she 463 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:07,200 Speaker 1: accepts Mr. Sherman's marriage proposal. It's a little thing there. 464 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 1: It's also seen when she finally moves on from her 465 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 1: own marriage and accepts her new life with her new husband. 466 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: So that's sort of that's the most tenuous. But that's 467 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,119 Speaker 1: what we think, and I think that's pretty good. I 468 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: love fan theories, like you, Yeah, five stages of greed. 469 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:24,920 Speaker 1: I doubt if that's the case. Well, that's what makes 470 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 1: fan theories so great. If like, if you just unlocked 471 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,399 Speaker 1: the director's secret, sure, then it's done. It's fine. Not 472 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,359 Speaker 1: you figured it out. One of the great things about 473 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 1: fan theories is that it rivals what the director was 474 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 1: trying to do or the writer was trying to do. Yeah, 475 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,360 Speaker 1: it was like English class. Remember back in English class, 476 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,199 Speaker 1: it was always and I had a problem with it 477 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 1: back then, but now I love it. I would always 478 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 1: be like, well, just teachers just interpreting this, like who 479 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:52,439 Speaker 1: knows what the author meant? Oh yeah, but that's kind 480 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 1: of the point. Now in my old age, I realized, Yeah, 481 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 1: I remember feeling my brain unfurl and start to get like, yeah, 482 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,640 Speaker 1: there are ccific interpretations of things and that that that 483 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 1: kind of fit within a framework, but still are it's 484 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:08,159 Speaker 1: pretty wide. Yeah, but great, it's nice, pretty cool fan theories. 485 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,120 Speaker 1: I'm writing a blog post on him right now. I'm 486 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 1: collecting him. Oh yeah, so that's from Joshua Bryant. Joshua, 487 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,399 Speaker 1: I guess is a result of some weird stuff you 488 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:21,359 Speaker 1: should know in breeding. But yeah, he's an experiment, that's right. Yeah, Dish, 489 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 1: let us know where you are right now. He escape Yeah, uh, 490 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:28,440 Speaker 1: if you escape from our lab, we want to hear 491 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: about it, especially if you have some cool fan theory. Man, 492 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,439 Speaker 1: send us fan theories, like good ones. I mean like 493 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 1: good ones, not like uh it's stupid ones. Yeah. I've 494 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 1: been on feral children lately. What just that's been my 495 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 1: obsession lately, reading about feral children. I might trying to 496 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,920 Speaker 1: write a think virtue fan theory. Feral children. What does 497 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:51,679 Speaker 1: that have to do with fan theories? Nothing, That's just 498 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:53,919 Speaker 1: that's my obsession. Yours has been fan theories. Oh, I 499 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: got you, I got I've just been obsessed with feral children. Yeah, 500 00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: because there have been like actual ones in there, yeah, 501 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:03,960 Speaker 1: like um, the Emerald Forest, the many cases. So Okay. 502 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,399 Speaker 1: If you have a good fan theory and or a 503 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 1: good barrel children's story, we want to hear about it. 504 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,440 Speaker 1: You can tweet to us at s Y s K podcast. 505 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 1: You can join us on Stuff you Should Know, which 506 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,479 Speaker 1: is prior to that slash, prior to that Facebook dot 507 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 1: com uh, you can send us an email the Stuff podcast, 508 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,399 Speaker 1: that Discovery dot com, and you can join us at 509 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 1: our home on the web Stuff you Should Know dot 510 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:34,439 Speaker 1: com for more on this and thousands of other topics. 511 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 1: Does it House stuff works dot com. Jack thards has 512 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 1: quickly become the online shopping destination for guys. Here's why 513 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 1: everything on the site is up off as a listener 514 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 1: of Stuff you Should Know, you can skip the membership 515 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 1: waitlist and get instant access at jack threads dot com, 516 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 1: slash k and o W stuff That's Jack threads dot com, 517 00:28:58,560 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 1: slash no Stuff