WEBVTT - Bitcoin in Politics and Beyond: A Conversation with Dennis Porter 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:02.680 Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Mark mass Show, 0:00:02.680 --> 0:00:05.320 where we talk about, of course, the decentralized revolution, the 0:00:05.320 --> 0:00:08.520 way the world is changing right before very eyes, and 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:10.720 we look at it through the lens of politics, finance, 0:00:10.760 --> 0:00:13.920 and technology. And of course that technology that changes the 0:00:13.920 --> 0:00:16.759 world is bitcoin, the decentralized technology. And you know, I 0:00:16.920 --> 0:00:19.159 like to bring to you some late breaking news and 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:21.720 some education to change your the way that you think 0:00:21.720 --> 0:00:24.000 about things, but also some some guests so you don't 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:25.639 have to listen to me all the time. And I 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:28.360 have a returning guest. I have Dennis Porter in the 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:30.640 studio with me today. He is the CEO and co 0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:33.680 founder of the Satoshi Action Fund. He's the president and 0:00:33.680 --> 0:00:37.160 founder of Satoshi Action Education as well, which of course 0:00:37.320 --> 0:00:38.199 are two things that I like. 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:38.479 I like. 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:41.960 I like education and specifically education that leads into action. 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:44.560 So anyway, Dennis, thanks so much for joining me today. 0:00:44.840 --> 0:00:47.120 Hey, Mark, glad to be back on the show. And 0:00:47.320 --> 0:00:49.000 I'm going to have to use your line more often. 0:00:49.040 --> 0:00:51.680 I'll be like education that leads to action. That's our 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:53.000 that's our new slogan. 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:54.600 It should be, you know, I talk about all the time. 0:00:54.640 --> 0:00:57.240 I actually I said it on an earlier segment, I 0:00:57.280 --> 0:00:59.880 say that, you know, we've been told that knowledge is power, 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:04.440 but that's not true. Only knowledge put into action is power. 0:01:04.600 --> 0:01:07.640 Otherwise I think ignorance is bliss. Rather just take the 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:12.160 blue pill and not even know, right, So, yeah, only 0:01:12.240 --> 0:01:15.800 only only actionable knowledge, knowledge put into action is power. Right. 0:01:16.120 --> 0:01:18.040 But anyway, you know, Dennis, I know, you know, we've 0:01:18.040 --> 0:01:20.160 had you on before and you were involved on the 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:22.880 on the politics side for any number of things, and 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:25.800 then you kind of put together this action fund really 0:01:25.880 --> 0:01:29.640 kind of helping to educate and and and take you know, 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:32.120 action into the you know, kind of political realm. And 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:35.440 we're kind of at this point where, you know, specifically 0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:40.440 specifically around bitcoin, kind of like left it alone for 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:42.320 a decade, you know, until it started kind of getting 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:44.160 big enough and starting to show up on people's radars, 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:46.160 and then politicians were trying to kind of figure out 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:47.920 what they want to do about this, and now it 0:01:47.960 --> 0:01:50.640 seems to like really escalate where it really seems to 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:53.360 me like the Biden regime that we have in place today, 0:01:53.360 --> 0:01:56.200 which would include you know, Elizabeth Warren and Gary Gensler 0:01:56.560 --> 0:02:01.720 are really anti bitcoin, anti crypto, and almost even anti 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:07.200 tech overall. Do you see that like really coming from 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:09.760 from you know, kind of that group, like there's really 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:13.600 like this anti innovation, anti tech movement. 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:17.760 I mean, you definitely do see some components of that 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:20.960 taking place. I would say the majority of the anti 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:24.280 digital asset let's say broadly, because it really is kind 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:26.480 of the way that they view the space. The anti 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:30.560 digital asset bent is coming from the Council of Economic Advisors, 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:33.519 but also from Liz Warren campaign, where she has a 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:37.079 lot of ties. And I do believe that the Biden 0:02:37.080 --> 0:02:40.519 administration broadly does have a very negative tone towards bitcoin. 0:02:40.880 --> 0:02:44.000 We have seen though, I will say with Gary Gensler, 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:47.160 although he is very anti crypto at this point, seemingly 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:51.360 going after exchanges with no sort of restriction on what 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:54.320 he's willing to do, willing to go after you know, 0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:58.080 XRP and various crypto assets, but has pretty much left 0:02:58.080 --> 0:03:00.919 Bitcoin alone. And you know, some of a crypto side 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:03.280 of dial will say, well, you know, just you wait 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:06.160 till Gary Ginsler comes for you. But he's been pretty 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:09.519 clear about his viewpoint that he believes that bitcoin is 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:12.600 a commodity. And the CFTC I believe is also in 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:15.560 alignment with that, so we might be narrow as narrowly 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:18.440 escaping that bullet. The biggest area where I do see 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:22.120 the most concern is not necessarily on the sec CFTC 0:03:22.160 --> 0:03:25.080 front for bitcoin. It is actually, in fact for the 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:29.400 majority of bitcoin businesses and prolific individuals within the bitcoin 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:32.800 space that are getting limited in their ability to access banking. 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:37.160 We've seen banks all across this country not only prevent 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:42.040 bitcoiners and bitcoin based companies from having access to financial 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:44.240 services and we're just talking about basic banking services at 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:46.800 this point, but they've also kicked them out on top 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:48.240 of that. I was just talking to a gentleman today 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:50.920 who said he went through thirty different banks before he 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:53.280 was finally accepted. I spoke to one of the largest 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:55.840 bitcoin mining companies in the entire world, and they said 0:03:55.880 --> 0:03:58.000 they were at a bank for six years and then 0:03:58.040 --> 0:04:00.280 they got kicked out. So this is the air where 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:01.960 I think we need to have the most focused and 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:04.800 not be so concerned. If you're a bitcoiner, if you're 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:07.480 a crypto person, you should care a lot about Gary Gensler. 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:09.840 But as someone who's focused on bitcoin, I'm more so 0:04:09.920 --> 0:04:11.760 worried about this banking issue, and I think it's something 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:12.960 that we should pay a lot of attention to. 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:14.560 Yeah, I mean I can. I can give first on 0:04:14.680 --> 0:04:17.720 account of that. You know, we've launched the Bitcoin Opportunity 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:21.800 Fund and we we've we've successfully completed our first round 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:24.920 of financing, which is which went pretty well. Shout out 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:27.120 to Bigcoin Opportunity Fund. If you're interested investing through the 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:30.560 bitcoin ecosystem, check it out Bitcoin Opportunity Dot Fund and 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:33.680 get more info there. But you know, because we have 0:04:33.800 --> 0:04:37.200 bitcoin in the name, we were having problems get ban accounts 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:39.400 and like we had commitments of people ready to wire 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:40.720 money over and all of a sudden we can't get 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:42.440 the bank. And we're like, dang, why didn't we just 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:43.960 why did we have to put bitcoin in the name? 0:04:43.960 --> 0:04:45.400 We should have put We're just a we're just an 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:48.320 investment fund, right, But because bitcoin was in the name, 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:49.880 we had a big problem. We finally found a bank, 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:51.120 but it was it was we had to go through 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:53.280 quite a few it was difficult. So I definitely see that. 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:56.600 But you know, you talked about you know, Gary Gensler specifically, 0:04:56.600 --> 0:04:59.240 which of course I did as well, But so so 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:02.680 do you see it really as like this, I guess 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:04.359 what I was trying to ask, is it really like 0:05:04.400 --> 0:05:07.440 this attack on digital assets? Are they trying to protect money, 0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:10.320 trying to protect the digital dollar or the dollar or 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:13.000 do you think it's also hostile to tech in general? 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:16.320 And I say that because of what we see happening 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:19.080 like with a restrict Act and you know, TikTok bill 0:05:19.480 --> 0:05:20.560 and things like that. 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:23.640 To your point there, I think just broadly we see 0:05:24.240 --> 0:05:28.000 anti tech bent not only in the Democrat Party, we 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:29.880 also see it happening in the Republican Party. I mean, 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:32.640 there are at the state level, which is where we 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:35.120 spend a very large majority of our time, there are 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:40.039 several states which have moved to ban government officials from 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:43.440 accessing TikTok, from using TikTok, and I think that you're 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:45.520 going to see that sort of activity pick up. It's 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:48.360 really become one of those things where it's viewed as 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:51.560 somewhat of a national security threat. And generally speaking on 0:05:52.040 --> 0:05:55.679 national security threats, not always, but generally you do see 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:59.479 Republicans and Democrats working across the aisle on these issues. 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:04.680 And unfortunately, in this sort of situation, that national security 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:08.000 threat is in a position now where it seems like 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:11.599 it's going to be limiting the access to innovation, limiting 0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:14.720 the access to tech. But ultimately, you know, we do 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:16.240 need to be careful. We do need to be careful 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:19.680 about apps that are wholly controlled by the CCP, like TikTok, 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:22.800 and making sure that we are paying attention to what's 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:25.200 going on, because we also know that TikTok collects a 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:27.800 lot of information that's on its users, so something to 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:31.160 be cautious of. I don't like necessarily that in kind 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:33.720 of the effort to go after things like TikTok through 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:37.320 the restrict Act, that we are kind of ultimately broadly 0:06:37.440 --> 0:06:41.599 hurting other things, other types of innovation, other types of technology. 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:43.240 So we have to be very careful in the way 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:45.720 that we go after bad actors in the space. We 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:47.240 can't just take, you know, throw the baby out with 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:50.239 the bathwater. I don't know the specific in the details 0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:53.280 of how this would directly hurt Bitcoin. I have heard 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:55.400 some good arguments on it, but I don't think it's 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:56.839 the thing that we should be the most focused on 0:06:56.920 --> 0:06:57.839 right now within the space. 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:00.760 I just didn't think back to this quote from Christine Leguard, 0:07:00.760 --> 0:07:04.320 who said that innovation is a threat to our financial stability, 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:06.000 I saw that a couple of years ago. It is 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:08.840 just always stuck with me and and and I guess 0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:11.640 that's true. Innovation is a threat to the financial stability, 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:15.120 but the it's really not the financial stabilities financial monopoly 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:17.360 that they control, right, So innovation is disruptive and and 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:20.800 and innovation is always inherently disruptive. I want to go 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:23.360 back to, you know, back to Social Action Fund and 0:07:23.440 --> 0:07:26.360 I know you guys help put forward the right to 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:31.080 mind bill. Give me, give me a minute, minute a 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:33.080 half summary of what that right to my bill is, 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:34.120 what you're trying to do with that. 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:37.720 Yeah, absolutely, Mark. So what was happening across the country 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:41.840 is we saw varying types of discrimination against bitcoin miners, 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:46.760 generally rooted in a misunderstanding of the technology. People often 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:48.960 hear about bitcoin mining and they either think, you know, 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:51.840 one of two things or both that this is a scam, 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:54.200 that this is a you know, Ponzi scheme, why are 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:56.440 we letting this thing use up all of our energy, 0:07:56.880 --> 0:07:59.800 or the other one is that they have been misinformed 0:07:59.840 --> 0:08:03.440 to believe that bitcoin mining is bad for the environment, 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:05.640 which is an argument in fact that we are doing 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:08.680 a much better job of winning these days but unfortunately, 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:10.800 there are still a lot of individuals out there who 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:13.960 still believe that bitcoin is a scam or that it's 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:16.400 bad for the environment. And so at the local level, 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:21.000 we're seeing attacks on bitcoin mining, everything ranging from changing 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:24.640 calling emergency meetings and changing zoning rules and zoning laws, 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:27.679 which led in the County of Missoula to a twenty 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:31.239 million dollars bitcoin mining operation going completely bankrupt. We also 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:35.240 see in the state of Idaho they regulators they're agreed 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:38.840 with an increase in power pricing for bitcoin miners, which 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:41.160 is fairly unheard of generally speaking, in the world of 0:08:41.280 --> 0:08:44.040 energy in the United States, you are not allowed through 0:08:44.080 --> 0:08:46.920 the public Utility Commissions, which are the state regulators when 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:49.800 it comes to energy, you're not allowed to discriminate against 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:54.240 different groups. But they did the attempt by Idaho Power. 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:55.880 They were trying to raise rates on all the miners 0:08:55.880 --> 0:08:59.040 broadly within their footprint. It was much more aggressive and 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:01.960 so fortunately it got tampered down and it was much 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:04.120 more of a reasonable increase, but still we did see 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:07.360 that type of discrimination. We also see frivolous noise complaints 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:10.520 taking place all across the country, and and so the 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:14.840 bill that we created it just protects in law bitcoiners 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:18.360 and bitcoin minors from those sorts of attacks. And also 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:20.080 with it just so happened in the state of Montana, 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:21.920 we did pass a law. 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:24.640 Yeah, I want that bill. I want to hear more 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:26.679 about that way specifically, but I want to come back 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:28.400 to that in a second. But if you're just tune 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:31.040 in listening to the markmas Show, I'm sitting down with 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:33.880 Dennis Porter and studio from Satoshi Action Fund to find 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:36.439 out what's going on in the political world in regards 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:39.360 to money and bitcoin and technology. We're back with more 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:44.520 in a minute. Don't go away, We're back, all right, 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:46.160 Welcome back. If you're just tune in, you're listening to 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:48.360 the Mark Moss Show. I'm in studio with Dennis Porter 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:51.520 from Satoshi Action Fund and we're discussing what's going on 0:09:51.640 --> 0:09:54.760 in the political landscape in regards to bitcoin and technology 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:57.319 and journal you know, Dennis, before that break, you were 0:09:57.360 --> 0:09:59.240 just talking about, you know, some of the things that 0:09:59.240 --> 0:10:02.200 you guys have been doing, and specifically you were talking about, 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:04.000 you know, some of the education that you've been doing 0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:07.120 to try to counteract some misinformation that's out there. And 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:09.880 then you're kind of going into an actual bill, So 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:13.320 not just the education, but the action of what you're 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:15.520 doing and submitting the bill. I want to I want 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:16.679 to find out about the bill, and I have some 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:18.439 questions about that, but before we do, just kind of 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:23.160 going back to the education side for a second. You know, 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:26.960 we've seen a lot of miss I mean, they they, 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:30.400 you know, they the mainstream media accuses everyone else of misinformation. 0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:32.800 It seems like they're the ones putting out the misinformation 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:36.480 when they constantly put out misleading stories sort of like 0:10:36.520 --> 0:10:39.120 what the New York Times have have done in Texas 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:43.199 and so is that kind of what you're trying to counteract, 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:45.280 so to speak, right, kind of going to these politicians 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:47.319 who are kind of getting this misinformation and trying to 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:49.959 kind of educate them on you know, what's really going 0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:50.319 on there. 0:10:50.600 --> 0:10:53.520 Yeah, absolutely, and you're right, we do see sort of 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:56.600 misinformation campaigns taking place across the country. When it comes 0:10:56.600 --> 0:10:59.840 to bitcoin mining, it is the you know, unfortunately, there 0:10:59.880 --> 0:11:02.160 is somewhat of an incentive in the media to attack 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:04.440 bitcoin and bitcoin mining. You can get a lot of 0:11:04.440 --> 0:11:07.760 clicks and a lot of views, but unfortunately, oftentimes we 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:13.000 see just flat out total misinformation with regards to how 0:11:13.040 --> 0:11:16.000 bitcoin mining works and the amount of energy that it 0:11:16.040 --> 0:11:19.280 is consuming. So we are educating on a regular basis. 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:20.840 But one of the other components that I think is 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:23.760 really critical to changing hearts and minds on this issue 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:26.920 is not just going out and saying, hey, well, actually 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:29.920 bitcoin mining does this for the environment, or it's really 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:32.960 good at balancing the grid, but turning around and also 0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:36.760 providing research for the space. You know, we talked about 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:39.959 Satotia Action Fund, but we also have satoti Action Education 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:43.000 as you mentioned earlier in the show, and that entity 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:47.240 is wholly focused on providing better research for the bitcoin 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:50.080 mining industry and not just some white papers. We're also 0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:53.400 talking about peer reviewed research, which some people might have 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:55.120 a problem with, but it is the best system that 0:11:55.160 --> 0:11:58.480 we have, you know, It's the good line for it 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:00.680 is it's the worst system except for all the other ones. Yeah, 0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:03.199 but the peer review process what it does is it 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:06.800 puts it puts the people that are on the fence 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:09.360 or might be opposed to bitcoin mining back into the 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:11.440 thinking cabinet and having to think about what are they 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:13.600 going to do with this issue and is it something 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:17.280 that actually can provide value because right now they're sitting 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:19.920 around saying this thing is destroying the environment, it's bad 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:22.920 for the grid, it's hurting the planet, it's soaking up 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:24.720 all the energy. What are we going to do about it? 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:26.439 We want them to go back to the drawing board 0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:29.040 and start thinking about how maybe there are some things 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:31.120 that they don't like about bitcoin mining. Let's say that 0:12:31.160 --> 0:12:33.120 you're like on the fringes when it comes to the 0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:36.240 environmental issue, and you're very very very staunchly opposed to 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:41.199 using fossil fuels. Well, great, you can use bitcoin mining 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:45.000 to advance renewable energy across this country. In fact, it 0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:48.240 may very well be one of the most important technologies 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:50.000 for that, and we want to provide the research to 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:51.160 be able to back up those claims. 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:52.800 Yeah, I mean that's a great point, and it's something 0:12:52.840 --> 0:12:54.960 that I've been thinking a lot about lately, Dennis, you know, 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:59.000 where like it's and to be honest, it's maybe the 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:00.839 first time I've publicly been talking about this on any 0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:02.720 of my outlets, but it's really been making me rethink 0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:06.400 even my content right where like I was, I think 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:09.200 it might have been. You know, it's just like in life, 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:12.080 we go where our focus is, like where focuses our 0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:14.400 energy goes kind of thing, right, and like are we 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:17.319 focused on fighting or are we focused on building? Right? 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:20.280 Are we focused on holding back or where we want 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:24.080 to go? And like, you know, I think when I 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:25.840 was listening to you talk, it was kind of making 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:27.760 me think through that on my own, where like are 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:30.439 we trying to like constantly fight against the government to 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:33.240 prevent them or could we just focus on building these 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:36.240 brand new renewable energy grids? Like can we go and 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:38.760 help them accomplish what they want with this technology? And 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:41.160 it's just the difference of that that focus, right, Like 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:46.600 it's a positive focus where we're building out competing, Right, 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:49.800 good ideas typically win because they're better, right, And so 0:13:49.920 --> 0:13:51.520 like if you can say, hey, look here's how you 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:54.040 can scale a renewable energy grid. You can offset some 0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:56.160 of the costs with some bitcoin mining, and they look 0:13:56.200 --> 0:13:59.160 at it more as like a tool as opposed to 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:02.640 like bitcoins specifically. I don't know, is that maybe how 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:03.560 you sort of present it. 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:07.760 Yeah, absolutely, we definitely talk about bitcoin mining as a tool. 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:10.360 We talk about it as a piece of energy infrastructure. 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:13.320 And I do agree with your statement about the fact 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:15.640 that we need to be able to go in and 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:19.000 build these things is just as important, if not more important, 0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:21.840 than trying to win the argument. You know, if we 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:25.240 just sit around on Twitter and we just submit, you know, 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:29.800 new blog posts to our blog and talking about how 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:32.920 great bitcoin is and bitcoin mining is, that's good, that's great. 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:35.680 We need that sort of education out there for the public. 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:40.119 But as it pertains to policy makers, it's really important 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:43.840 that we build the things that we're talking about so 0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:46.720 that we have evidence to show that these things are 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:49.600 taking place. And that's happening at a rapid pace. You know, 0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:52.440 in the last five years, we went from oh, maybe 0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:54.400 bitcoin mining could be good to balancing the grid to 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:57.000 bitcoin mining is actually balancing in the grid all over 0:14:57.000 --> 0:15:00.840 the country, particularly in Texas where during a winter storm there, 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:03.840 bitcoin miners were able to deliver up to fifteen hundred 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:06.160 megawatts of power back to the grid in the middle 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:08.680 of an emergency. And just to put it in a context, 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:12.360 fifteen hundred megawats of power is enough power to heat 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:14.880 one point five million small homes, and that's in the 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:17.000 middle of an emergency when no one else is wanting 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:18.800 to get up their power. So we just need to 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:22.520 keep building, keep proving, and eventually that also helps us 0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:24.640 in our arguments when it comes to convincing our world 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:26.960 leaders to adopt bitcoin and bitcoin mining. 0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:29.760 Yeah, and I want to go back, you know, I 0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:32.360 want to go back to the bill, the bill that 0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:36.320 you submitted, because I think about like kind of going 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:38.120 back to like focus on the good, right, and like 0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:42.920 you know, the the power that you know, money has 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:43.640 in this realm. 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:43.840 Right. 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:47.920 So for example, if these big energy companies, these big 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:51.520 power companies can go dang, you know, using this technology, 0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:53.680 not even thinking about any of ours a bitcoin, but 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:56.720 using this technology, we can not lose billions of dollars 0:15:56.800 --> 0:15:58.760 now right now we have a new revenue source. Then 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:01.320 like they would be motivate to then go push it 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:04.520 on the political front themselves, like hey we need this. 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:06.600 And then like I think back to like the bill, 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:09.280 and this is where maybe you can kind of correct 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:11.800 me a little bit. But it seems like most lawmakers, 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:16.080 the legislators that go into office don't actually create any bills. 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:19.600 They don't create the laws, right, Like they co sponsor bills, right, 0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:22.000 they co sponsor the bills. But where do the bills 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:24.480 come from? The bills come from like the lobby groups, 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:27.680 I'm guessing, right, So like maybe one correct me on that, 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:29.640 but too, if we can get those paragrades companies to 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:31.400 go like, dang, this is a tool that we really want. 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:33.880 It can help off set extra revenue, then they might 0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:36.320 be the ones actually pushing for that themselves. 0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:41.560 Yeah, that's very insightful. Actually, Mark, I'll get to the 0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:44.240 policy you've component in a moment here, but you know, 0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:47.960 you really tapped into one of the major reasons why 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:52.120 SATUCI Action Fund exists and why we're so focused on 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:56.120 the state level. If you can get energy companies to 0:16:56.240 --> 0:17:00.800 adopt bitcoin and bitcoin mining as a technology and they 0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:03.200 see it as a positive and in fact they are 0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:05.600 willing to fight for it, you have now put bitcoin 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:10.160 mining into a very, very very positive political position. Because 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:13.480 at the state level in the United States is where 0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:17.440 the majority of energy policy takes place. And because every 0:17:17.440 --> 0:17:20.240 single almost every single one of these utility companies and 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:23.719 energy companies are highly regulated at the state level. In fact, 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:28.000 you know, most utilities in the United States are you know, 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:30.800 regulated monopoly so to speak. So in order for them 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:33.480 to make sure that they don't get abused by the 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:36.160 state legislator or that they don't lose out on their 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:38.840 current sort of protections that they have because that with 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:42.240 the with the monopoly comes a lot of regulation. Like there, 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:44.399 it's a trade off. They are monopoly, but they get 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:46.840 they are very restricted and they want to make sure 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:48.600 the restrictions don't get worse. But they also want to 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:51.160 make sure that their monopoly doesn't get you know, taken 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:54.160 away from them as well. So they care. I'll give 0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:55.920 you enough story here just as a quick example that 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:58.480 we can move on to the policy quipment before you do. 0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:00.520 That, before you go into that, I want to hear 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:03.040 the story, and everybody else listening does too, But we've 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:04.520 got to take just a quick break. If you're just 0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:06.200 tuning and you're listening to the Mark mass Show, and 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:09.280 I'm sitting down with Dennis Porter from the Satoshi Action 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:13.439 Fund talking about the way that he's helping to change, 0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:16.640 educate people, and change and push action in the policy 0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:18.760 and the bitcoin space specifically. And he's got a great 0:18:18.760 --> 0:18:20.480 story to illustrate that, and he's going to tell you 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:21.760 when we come back. But we're going to take a 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:24.040 quick break, so don't go away. We'll be right back, 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:27.320 all right. Welcome back. If you're just tuning in and 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:29.680 you're listening to the Mark Maas show. We're talking about 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:34.159 the bitcoin mining space and the policies and regulations around that. 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:36.960 I'm sitting down with Dennis Porter from the Satoshi Action Fund, 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:38.760 and Dennis I had to kind of cut you off 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:40.960 and we left everybody hanging. So you're going to kind 0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:43.080 of give like a little illustrative story there for seconds, 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:44.400 So go ahead, Yeah, definitely. 0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:47.480 You know you had mentioned how important it would be 0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:49.960 to get energy companies and utilities on board because of 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:52.800 the impact it would have if they were on our team. Well, 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:55.520