1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,680 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Mark mass Show, 2 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:05,320 Speaker 1: where we talk about, of course, the decentralized revolution, the 3 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: way the world is changing right before very eyes, and 4 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:10,720 Speaker 1: we look at it through the lens of politics, finance, 5 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: and technology. And of course that technology that changes the 6 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:16,759 Speaker 1: world is bitcoin, the decentralized technology. And you know, I 7 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:19,159 Speaker 1: like to bring to you some late breaking news and 8 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 1: some education to change your the way that you think 9 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: about things, but also some some guests so you don't 10 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:25,639 Speaker 1: have to listen to me all the time. And I 11 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: have a returning guest. I have Dennis Porter in the 12 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 1: studio with me today. He is the CEO and co 13 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: founder of the Satoshi Action Fund. He's the president and 14 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:37,160 Speaker 1: founder of Satoshi Action Education as well, which of course 15 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 1: are two things that I like. 16 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 2: I like. 17 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 1: I like education and specifically education that leads into action. 18 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 1: So anyway, Dennis, thanks so much for joining me today. 19 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 2: Hey, Mark, glad to be back on the show. And 20 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 2: I'm going to have to use your line more often. 21 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 2: I'll be like education that leads to action. That's our 22 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 2: that's our new slogan. 23 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 1: It should be, you know, I talk about all the time. 24 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: I actually I said it on an earlier segment, I 25 00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: say that, you know, we've been told that knowledge is power, 26 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: but that's not true. Only knowledge put into action is power. 27 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 1: Otherwise I think ignorance is bliss. Rather just take the 28 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: blue pill and not even know, right, So, yeah, only 29 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: only only actionable knowledge, knowledge put into action is power. Right. 30 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:18,040 Speaker 1: But anyway, you know, Dennis, I know, you know, we've 31 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: had you on before and you were involved on the 32 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: on the politics side for any number of things, and 33 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: then you kind of put together this action fund really 34 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: kind of helping to educate and and and take you know, 35 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 1: action into the you know, kind of political realm. And 36 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: we're kind of at this point where, you know, specifically 37 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: specifically around bitcoin, kind of like left it alone for 38 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:42,320 Speaker 1: a decade, you know, until it started kind of getting 39 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: big enough and starting to show up on people's radars, 40 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: and then politicians were trying to kind of figure out 41 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 1: what they want to do about this, and now it 42 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: seems to like really escalate where it really seems to 43 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: me like the Biden regime that we have in place today, 44 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: which would include you know, Elizabeth Warren and Gary Gensler 45 00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: are really anti bitcoin, anti crypto, and almost even anti 46 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: tech overall. Do you see that like really coming from 47 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: from you know, kind of that group, like there's really 48 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: like this anti innovation, anti tech movement. 49 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 2: I mean, you definitely do see some components of that 50 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 2: taking place. I would say the majority of the anti 51 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 2: digital asset let's say broadly, because it really is kind 52 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 2: of the way that they view the space. The anti 53 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 2: digital asset bent is coming from the Council of Economic Advisors, 54 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:33,519 Speaker 2: but also from Liz Warren campaign, where she has a 55 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:37,079 Speaker 2: lot of ties. And I do believe that the Biden 56 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:40,519 Speaker 2: administration broadly does have a very negative tone towards bitcoin. 57 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 2: We have seen though, I will say with Gary Gensler, 58 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 2: although he is very anti crypto at this point, seemingly 59 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 2: going after exchanges with no sort of restriction on what 60 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 2: he's willing to do, willing to go after you know, 61 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 2: XRP and various crypto assets, but has pretty much left 62 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:00,919 Speaker 2: Bitcoin alone. And you know, some of a crypto side 63 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 2: of dial will say, well, you know, just you wait 64 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 2: till Gary Ginsler comes for you. But he's been pretty 65 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:09,519 Speaker 2: clear about his viewpoint that he believes that bitcoin is 66 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 2: a commodity. And the CFTC I believe is also in 67 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 2: alignment with that, so we might be narrow as narrowly 68 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 2: escaping that bullet. The biggest area where I do see 69 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 2: the most concern is not necessarily on the sec CFTC 70 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 2: front for bitcoin. It is actually, in fact for the 71 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 2: majority of bitcoin businesses and prolific individuals within the bitcoin 72 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 2: space that are getting limited in their ability to access banking. 73 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 2: We've seen banks all across this country not only prevent 74 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 2: bitcoiners and bitcoin based companies from having access to financial 75 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 2: services and we're just talking about basic banking services at 76 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 2: this point, but they've also kicked them out on top 77 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 2: of that. I was just talking to a gentleman today 78 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 2: who said he went through thirty different banks before he 79 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 2: was finally accepted. I spoke to one of the largest 80 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 2: bitcoin mining companies in the entire world, and they said 81 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 2: they were at a bank for six years and then 82 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 2: they got kicked out. So this is the air where 83 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 2: I think we need to have the most focused and 84 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 2: not be so concerned. If you're a bitcoiner, if you're 85 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 2: a crypto person, you should care a lot about Gary Gensler. 86 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 2: But as someone who's focused on bitcoin, I'm more so 87 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 2: worried about this banking issue, and I think it's something 88 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 2: that we should pay a lot of attention to. 89 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I can. I can give first on 90 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:17,720 Speaker 1: account of that. You know, we've launched the Bitcoin Opportunity 91 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 1: Fund and we we've we've successfully completed our first round 92 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,920 Speaker 1: of financing, which is which went pretty well. Shout out 93 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 1: to Bigcoin Opportunity Fund. If you're interested investing through the 94 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 1: bitcoin ecosystem, check it out Bitcoin Opportunity Dot Fund and 95 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 1: get more info there. But you know, because we have 96 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 1: bitcoin in the name, we were having problems get ban accounts 97 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 1: and like we had commitments of people ready to wire 98 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:40,720 Speaker 1: money over and all of a sudden we can't get 99 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 1: the bank. And we're like, dang, why didn't we just 100 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: why did we have to put bitcoin in the name? 101 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: We should have put We're just a we're just an 102 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: investment fund, right, But because bitcoin was in the name, 103 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: we had a big problem. We finally found a bank, 104 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: but it was it was we had to go through 105 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:53,280 Speaker 1: quite a few it was difficult. So I definitely see that. 106 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:56,600 Speaker 1: But you know, you talked about you know, Gary Gensler specifically, 107 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 1: which of course I did as well, But so so 108 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: do you see it really as like this, I guess 109 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:04,359 Speaker 1: what I was trying to ask, is it really like 110 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 1: this attack on digital assets? Are they trying to protect money, 111 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 1: trying to protect the digital dollar or the dollar or 112 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: do you think it's also hostile to tech in general? 113 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 1: And I say that because of what we see happening 114 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: like with a restrict Act and you know, TikTok bill 115 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: and things like that. 116 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 2: To your point there, I think just broadly we see 117 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 2: anti tech bent not only in the Democrat Party, we 118 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 2: also see it happening in the Republican Party. I mean, 119 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 2: there are at the state level, which is where we 120 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 2: spend a very large majority of our time, there are 121 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:40,039 Speaker 2: several states which have moved to ban government officials from 122 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 2: accessing TikTok, from using TikTok, and I think that you're 123 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 2: going to see that sort of activity pick up. It's 124 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 2: really become one of those things where it's viewed as 125 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 2: somewhat of a national security threat. And generally speaking on 126 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:55,679 Speaker 2: national security threats, not always, but generally you do see 127 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:59,479 Speaker 2: Republicans and Democrats working across the aisle on these issues. 128 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 2: And unfortunately, in this sort of situation, that national security 129 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 2: threat is in a position now where it seems like 130 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:11,599 Speaker 2: it's going to be limiting the access to innovation, limiting 131 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 2: the access to tech. But ultimately, you know, we do 132 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 2: need to be careful. We do need to be careful 133 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 2: about apps that are wholly controlled by the CCP, like TikTok, 134 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 2: and making sure that we are paying attention to what's 135 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 2: going on, because we also know that TikTok collects a 136 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 2: lot of information that's on its users, so something to 137 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 2: be cautious of. I don't like necessarily that in kind 138 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:33,720 Speaker 2: of the effort to go after things like TikTok through 139 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 2: the restrict Act, that we are kind of ultimately broadly 140 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:41,599 Speaker 2: hurting other things, other types of innovation, other types of technology. 141 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 2: So we have to be very careful in the way 142 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:45,720 Speaker 2: that we go after bad actors in the space. We 143 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 2: can't just take, you know, throw the baby out with 144 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:50,239 Speaker 2: the bathwater. I don't know the specific in the details 145 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:53,280 Speaker 2: of how this would directly hurt Bitcoin. I have heard 146 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 2: some good arguments on it, but I don't think it's 147 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 2: the thing that we should be the most focused on 148 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 2: right now within the space. 149 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: I just didn't think back to this quote from Christine Leguard, 150 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 1: who said that innovation is a threat to our financial stability, 151 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 1: I saw that a couple of years ago. It is 152 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:08,840 Speaker 1: just always stuck with me and and and I guess 153 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: that's true. Innovation is a threat to the financial stability, 154 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 1: but the it's really not the financial stabilities financial monopoly 155 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 1: that they control, right, So innovation is disruptive and and 156 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: and innovation is always inherently disruptive. I want to go 157 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 1: back to, you know, back to Social Action Fund and 158 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: I know you guys help put forward the right to 159 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 1: mind bill. Give me, give me a minute, minute a 160 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 1: half summary of what that right to my bill is, 161 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: what you're trying to do with that. 162 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, Mark. So what was happening across the country 163 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 2: is we saw varying types of discrimination against bitcoin miners, 164 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 2: generally rooted in a misunderstanding of the technology. People often 165 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 2: hear about bitcoin mining and they either think, you know, 166 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 2: one of two things or both that this is a scam, 167 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 2: that this is a you know, Ponzi scheme, why are 168 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 2: we letting this thing use up all of our energy, 169 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 2: or the other one is that they have been misinformed 170 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 2: to believe that bitcoin mining is bad for the environment, 171 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 2: which is an argument in fact that we are doing 172 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 2: a much better job of winning these days but unfortunately, 173 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 2: there are still a lot of individuals out there who 174 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 2: still believe that bitcoin is a scam or that it's 175 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 2: bad for the environment. And so at the local level, 176 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 2: we're seeing attacks on bitcoin mining, everything ranging from changing 177 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 2: calling emergency meetings and changing zoning rules and zoning laws, 178 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:27,679 Speaker 2: which led in the County of Missoula to a twenty 179 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:31,239 Speaker 2: million dollars bitcoin mining operation going completely bankrupt. We also 180 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 2: see in the state of Idaho they regulators they're agreed 181 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 2: with an increase in power pricing for bitcoin miners, which 182 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 2: is fairly unheard of generally speaking, in the world of 183 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 2: energy in the United States, you are not allowed through 184 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 2: the public Utility Commissions, which are the state regulators when 185 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 2: it comes to energy, you're not allowed to discriminate against 186 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 2: different groups. But they did the attempt by Idaho Power. 187 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 2: They were trying to raise rates on all the miners 188 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 2: broadly within their footprint. It was much more aggressive and 189 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 2: so fortunately it got tampered down and it was much 190 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 2: more of a reasonable increase, but still we did see 191 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 2: that type of discrimination. We also see frivolous noise complaints 192 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 2: taking place all across the country, and and so the 193 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 2: bill that we created it just protects in law bitcoiners 194 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 2: and bitcoin minors from those sorts of attacks. And also 195 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 2: with it just so happened in the state of Montana, 196 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 2: we did pass a law. 197 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, I want that bill. I want to hear more 198 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:26,679 Speaker 1: about that way specifically, but I want to come back 199 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: to that in a second. But if you're just tune 200 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: in listening to the markmas Show, I'm sitting down with 201 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: Dennis Porter and studio from Satoshi Action Fund to find 202 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,439 Speaker 1: out what's going on in the political world in regards 203 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 1: to money and bitcoin and technology. We're back with more 204 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 1: in a minute. Don't go away, We're back, all right, 205 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: Welcome back. If you're just tune in, you're listening to 206 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 1: the Mark Moss Show. I'm in studio with Dennis Porter 207 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 1: from Satoshi Action Fund and we're discussing what's going on 208 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 1: in the political landscape in regards to bitcoin and technology 209 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:57,319 Speaker 1: and journal you know, Dennis, before that break, you were 210 00:09:57,360 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: just talking about, you know, some of the things that 211 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 1: you guys have been doing, and specifically you were talking about, 212 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: you know, some of the education that you've been doing 213 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: to try to counteract some misinformation that's out there. And 214 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: then you're kind of going into an actual bill, So 215 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 1: not just the education, but the action of what you're 216 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: doing and submitting the bill. I want to I want 217 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:16,679 Speaker 1: to find out about the bill, and I have some 218 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:18,439 Speaker 1: questions about that, but before we do, just kind of 219 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 1: going back to the education side for a second. You know, 220 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 1: we've seen a lot of miss I mean, they they, 221 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 1: you know, they the mainstream media accuses everyone else of misinformation. 222 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: It seems like they're the ones putting out the misinformation 223 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 1: when they constantly put out misleading stories sort of like 224 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 1: what the New York Times have have done in Texas 225 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:43,199 Speaker 1: and so is that kind of what you're trying to counteract, 226 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 1: so to speak, right, kind of going to these politicians 227 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:47,319 Speaker 1: who are kind of getting this misinformation and trying to 228 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:49,959 Speaker 1: kind of educate them on you know, what's really going 229 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:50,319 Speaker 1: on there. 230 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, and you're right, we do see sort of 231 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 2: misinformation campaigns taking place across the country. When it comes 232 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 2: to bitcoin mining, it is the you know, unfortunately, there 233 00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 2: is somewhat of an incentive in the media to attack 234 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 2: bitcoin and bitcoin mining. You can get a lot of 235 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 2: clicks and a lot of views, but unfortunately, oftentimes we 236 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 2: see just flat out total misinformation with regards to how 237 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 2: bitcoin mining works and the amount of energy that it 238 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 2: is consuming. So we are educating on a regular basis. 239 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 2: But one of the other components that I think is 240 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 2: really critical to changing hearts and minds on this issue 241 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 2: is not just going out and saying, hey, well, actually 242 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 2: bitcoin mining does this for the environment, or it's really 243 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 2: good at balancing the grid, but turning around and also 244 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 2: providing research for the space. You know, we talked about 245 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:39,959 Speaker 2: Satotia Action Fund, but we also have satoti Action Education 246 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 2: as you mentioned earlier in the show, and that entity 247 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 2: is wholly focused on providing better research for the bitcoin 248 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:50,080 Speaker 2: mining industry and not just some white papers. We're also 249 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 2: talking about peer reviewed research, which some people might have 250 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 2: a problem with, but it is the best system that 251 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 2: we have, you know, It's the good line for it 252 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:00,680 Speaker 2: is it's the worst system except for all the other ones. Yeah, 253 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:03,199 Speaker 2: but the peer review process what it does is it 254 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 2: puts it puts the people that are on the fence 255 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 2: or might be opposed to bitcoin mining back into the 256 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 2: thinking cabinet and having to think about what are they 257 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 2: going to do with this issue and is it something 258 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 2: that actually can provide value because right now they're sitting 259 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 2: around saying this thing is destroying the environment, it's bad 260 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 2: for the grid, it's hurting the planet, it's soaking up 261 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 2: all the energy. What are we going to do about it? 262 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:26,439 Speaker 2: We want them to go back to the drawing board 263 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 2: and start thinking about how maybe there are some things 264 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 2: that they don't like about bitcoin mining. Let's say that 265 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 2: you're like on the fringes when it comes to the 266 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 2: environmental issue, and you're very very very staunchly opposed to 267 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:41,199 Speaker 2: using fossil fuels. Well, great, you can use bitcoin mining 268 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 2: to advance renewable energy across this country. In fact, it 269 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 2: may very well be one of the most important technologies 270 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 2: for that, and we want to provide the research to 271 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 2: be able to back up those claims. 272 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's a great point, and it's something 273 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 1: that I've been thinking a lot about lately, Dennis, you know, 274 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: where like it's and to be honest, it's maybe the 275 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:00,839 Speaker 1: first time I've publicly been talking about this on any 276 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 1: of my outlets, but it's really been making me rethink 277 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 1: even my content right where like I was, I think 278 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,200 Speaker 1: it might have been. You know, it's just like in life, 279 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 1: we go where our focus is, like where focuses our 280 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: energy goes kind of thing, right, and like are we 281 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:17,319 Speaker 1: focused on fighting or are we focused on building? Right? 282 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 1: Are we focused on holding back or where we want 283 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 1: to go? And like, you know, I think when I 284 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 1: was listening to you talk, it was kind of making 285 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 1: me think through that on my own, where like are 286 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:30,439 Speaker 1: we trying to like constantly fight against the government to 287 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 1: prevent them or could we just focus on building these 288 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: brand new renewable energy grids? Like can we go and 289 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: help them accomplish what they want with this technology? And 290 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: it's just the difference of that that focus, right, Like 291 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 1: it's a positive focus where we're building out competing, Right, 292 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: good ideas typically win because they're better, right, And so 293 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: like if you can say, hey, look here's how you 294 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: can scale a renewable energy grid. You can offset some 295 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 1: of the costs with some bitcoin mining, and they look 296 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 1: at it more as like a tool as opposed to 297 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 1: like bitcoins specifically. I don't know, is that maybe how 298 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 1: you sort of present it. 299 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, we definitely talk about bitcoin mining as a tool. 300 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 2: We talk about it as a piece of energy infrastructure. 301 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:13,320 Speaker 2: And I do agree with your statement about the fact 302 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 2: that we need to be able to go in and 303 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 2: build these things is just as important, if not more important, 304 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 2: than trying to win the argument. You know, if we 305 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 2: just sit around on Twitter and we just submit, you know, 306 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 2: new blog posts to our blog and talking about how 307 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 2: great bitcoin is and bitcoin mining is, that's good, that's great. 308 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 2: We need that sort of education out there for the public. 309 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:40,119 Speaker 2: But as it pertains to policy makers, it's really important 310 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 2: that we build the things that we're talking about so 311 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 2: that we have evidence to show that these things are 312 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 2: taking place. And that's happening at a rapid pace. You know, 313 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 2: in the last five years, we went from oh, maybe 314 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 2: bitcoin mining could be good to balancing the grid to 315 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 2: bitcoin mining is actually balancing in the grid all over 316 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 2: the country, particularly in Texas where during a winter storm there, 317 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 2: bitcoin miners were able to deliver up to fifteen hundred 318 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 2: megawatts of power back to the grid in the middle 319 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 2: of an emergency. And just to put it in a context, 320 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 2: fifteen hundred megawats of power is enough power to heat 321 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 2: one point five million small homes, and that's in the 322 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 2: middle of an emergency when no one else is wanting 323 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 2: to get up their power. So we just need to 324 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 2: keep building, keep proving, and eventually that also helps us 325 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 2: in our arguments when it comes to convincing our world 326 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 2: leaders to adopt bitcoin and bitcoin mining. 327 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I want to go back, you know, I 328 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 1: want to go back to the bill, the bill that 329 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 1: you submitted, because I think about like kind of going 330 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 1: back to like focus on the good, right, and like 331 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 1: you know, the the power that you know, money has 332 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: in this realm. 333 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 2: Right. 334 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: So for example, if these big energy companies, these big 335 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 1: power companies can go dang, you know, using this technology, 336 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: not even thinking about any of ours a bitcoin, but 337 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 1: using this technology, we can not lose billions of dollars 338 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 1: now right now we have a new revenue source. Then 339 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 1: like they would be motivate to then go push it 340 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 1: on the political front themselves, like hey we need this. 341 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 1: And then like I think back to like the bill, 342 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: and this is where maybe you can kind of correct 343 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 1: me a little bit. But it seems like most lawmakers, 344 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 1: the legislators that go into office don't actually create any bills. 345 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 1: They don't create the laws, right, Like they co sponsor bills, right, 346 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: they co sponsor the bills. But where do the bills 347 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 1: come from? The bills come from like the lobby groups, 348 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: I'm guessing, right, So like maybe one correct me on that, 349 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: but too, if we can get those paragrades companies to 350 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 1: go like, dang, this is a tool that we really want. 351 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 1: It can help off set extra revenue, then they might 352 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 1: be the ones actually pushing for that themselves. 353 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's very insightful. Actually, Mark, I'll get to the 354 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 2: policy you've component in a moment here, but you know, 355 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 2: you really tapped into one of the major reasons why 356 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 2: SATUCI Action Fund exists and why we're so focused on 357 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 2: the state level. If you can get energy companies to 358 00:16:56,240 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 2: adopt bitcoin and bitcoin mining as a technology and they 359 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 2: see it as a positive and in fact they are 360 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 2: willing to fight for it, you have now put bitcoin 361 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:10,160 Speaker 2: mining into a very, very very positive political position. Because 362 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 2: at the state level in the United States is where 363 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:17,440 Speaker 2: the majority of energy policy takes place. And because every 364 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 2: single almost every single one of these utility companies and 365 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:23,719 Speaker 2: energy companies are highly regulated at the state level. In fact, 366 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 2: you know, most utilities in the United States are you know, 367 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 2: regulated monopoly so to speak. So in order for them 368 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 2: to make sure that they don't get abused by the 369 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 2: state legislator or that they don't lose out on their 370 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 2: current sort of protections that they have because that with 371 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 2: the with the monopoly comes a lot of regulation. Like there, 372 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 2: it's a trade off. They are monopoly, but they get 373 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 2: they are very restricted and they want to make sure 374 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 2: the restrictions don't get worse. But they also want to 375 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,160 Speaker 2: make sure that their monopoly doesn't get you know, taken 376 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:54,160 Speaker 2: away from them as well. So they care. I'll give 377 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:55,920 Speaker 2: you enough story here just as a quick example that 378 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 2: we can move on to the policy quipment before you do. 379 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 1: That, before you go into that, I want to hear 380 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 1: the story, and everybody else listening does too, But we've 381 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: got to take just a quick break. If you're just 382 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:06,200 Speaker 1: tuning and you're listening to the Mark mass Show, and 383 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 1: I'm sitting down with Dennis Porter from the Satoshi Action 384 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:13,439 Speaker 1: Fund talking about the way that he's helping to change, 385 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,640 Speaker 1: educate people, and change and push action in the policy 386 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 1: and the bitcoin space specifically. And he's got a great 387 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 1: story to illustrate that, and he's going to tell you 388 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: when we come back. But we're going to take a 389 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 1: quick break, so don't go away. We'll be right back, 390 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: all right. Welcome back. If you're just tuning in and 391 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 1: you're listening to the Mark Maas show. We're talking about 392 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:34,159 Speaker 1: the bitcoin mining space and the policies and regulations around that. 393 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 1: I'm sitting down with Dennis Porter from the Satoshi Action Fund, 394 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 1: and Dennis I had to kind of cut you off 395 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 1: and we left everybody hanging. So you're going to kind 396 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: of give like a little illustrative story there for seconds, 397 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:44,400 Speaker 1: So go ahead, Yeah, definitely. 398 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 2: You know you had mentioned how important it would be 399 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 2: to get energy companies and utilities on board because of 400 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 2: the impact it would have if they were on our team. Well, 401 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 2: just as an example, in a state of Mississippi, when 402 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 2: we went there to try to pass policy, you know, 403 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:00,920 Speaker 2: we had some sort of kind of myth communication breakdown 404 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 2: is what I would call it, with some of the 405 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:04,680 Speaker 2: energy companies there, and we ended up having to sit 406 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 2: down with all the different lobbyists to be able to 407 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 2: talk about what we were doing. Well, ultimately, it just 408 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:11,440 Speaker 2: didn't end very well for us, right because they didn't 409 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 2: see us as a friend in the fight. They saw 410 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 2: us as someone that might be a threat to what's 411 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 2: going on there in that state. So ultimately we weren't 412 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 2: able to get anything done in Mississippi. But imagine the inverse. 413 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 2: Imagine if all of the utility companies and all the 414 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 2: people in the state of Mississippi that are working within 415 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 2: the energy sector see the value of this technology all 416 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 2: of a sudden, instead of them fighting us at the 417 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 2: state legislator to pass this policy, they are working with 418 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:39,200 Speaker 2: us as a partner in tandem to help make sure 419 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 2: that the state of Mississippi is a leader on bitcoin mining. 420 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,280 Speaker 2: And so I think ultimately we'll come around. We're going 421 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 2: to come around this next cycle. We might have a 422 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:47,879 Speaker 2: little bit better work with us to do in that state. 423 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 2: But we had to sit down with all these lobbyists 424 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:52,360 Speaker 2: from all the other energy companies and they were talent, 425 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 2: like you're worried about what we were going to do. 426 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:57,440 Speaker 2: So the goal ultimately would be to get all the utilities, 427 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:00,240 Speaker 2: not just in Mississippi, but across the entire country to 428 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 2: see the value of bitcoin mining for balancing the grid 429 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:06,160 Speaker 2: and for enhancing energy projects, and get them to fight 430 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 2: for it at the state legislators, where the vast majority 431 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 2: of energy policy is taking place, either through the state 432 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 2: legislator or through the public utility commissions there as well. 433 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, now let's get back into that bill. You were 434 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 1: talking about the bill and we were talking about where 435 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,160 Speaker 1: I was talking about how it's not really the legislators 436 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 1: that write the bills. They kind of cosponsor the bills, 437 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 1: and so you've submitted a bill, so like that seems 438 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:27,680 Speaker 1: to be the kind of way it works. 439 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 2: So just yeah, let's take a step back really quickly. 440 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 2: There's a vast difference between what happens at the state 441 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:39,119 Speaker 2: level and what happens at the federal level. At the 442 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 2: federal level, there's quite a bit more involvement from the 443 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 2: legislator and the legislator's staff on the process. But the 444 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 2: difference between that and the states is that the federal 445 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 2: level has a vast budget to be able to hire 446 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 2: well qualified staffers to focus on these issues and to 447 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 2: come up with great policy solutions. So generally you're not 448 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:04,159 Speaker 2: really like, you know, they say the term is like 449 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 2: handing policy to them, which is not something that we 450 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:10,919 Speaker 2: do either. Generally, what you do is you have bullet 451 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 2: points and you just say, hey, these are some things 452 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 2: that we think would be important, and you're going to 453 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 2: take it and if you like what we're trying to do, 454 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 2: you're gonna take it and move on it. So, for instance, 455 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:21,680 Speaker 2: the state of Montana you say, hey, you like bitcoin mining, 456 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 2: we like bitcoin mining. Here's some things that we know 457 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 2: should probably take pay place if you want to see 458 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 2: the adoption of bitcoin mining in the states. So then 459 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 2: the policymaker takes that bill, sends it to the drafters 460 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,960 Speaker 2: who put it into Montana state Code, design it all out, 461 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 2: and then the policy maker works and fights to make 462 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 2: sure that that bill makes it through committee, through the 463 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 2: House and Senate, and then passes it and hopefully signs 464 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 2: it by the governor. So, you know, handing them policy 465 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 2: directly is not exactly the right way to say it. 466 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 2: Although it does kind of take place, it's not the 467 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:53,399 Speaker 2: best way to describe what's going on. And if it 468 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 2: does play take place, it's usually happening mostly at the 469 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 2: state level. 470 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: Got it, Okay, that makes sense. That makes sense. Now, 471 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 1: you know one thing that I know, you know, I 472 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: think I forget the last time, the first time I 473 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 1: had you on, but I remember it was kind of 474 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 1: at this point. It seems like I remember at this 475 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 1: point where bitcoin was kind of becoming like this political tool, 476 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:17,680 Speaker 1: where like it seemed like maybe just like the conservative 477 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 1: maybe right side of the aisle was kind of picking 478 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,119 Speaker 1: it up. And then like maybe the left kind of 479 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 1: Democrat side was kind of now saying, oh, it's like 480 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 1: this political tool, and now it seems to be embraced 481 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 1: by both sides of the AIS. As a matter of fact, 482 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,640 Speaker 1: I'm here speaking at the Freedom Fest in Memphis, Tennessee 483 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 1: this week. There's several presidential candidates here, including RFK Junior 484 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 1: on the left and Vivic Garamaswami on the right, and 485 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:43,119 Speaker 1: Tulca Gabbard was speaking this morning and she's not running 486 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,400 Speaker 1: for president, but she's in the middle, and they're all 487 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:50,000 Speaker 1: proponent for bitcoin. Do you think that bitcoin has sort of, 488 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:52,360 Speaker 1: I guess jumped. It's kind of scaled to that level 489 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 1: where it's no longer left or right, it's no longer 490 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,199 Speaker 1: like a political tool. I mean, both sides are for it. 491 00:22:57,320 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: Or how do you view that now? 492 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 2: You know, I really is a pretty complex situation, complex question. 493 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,399 Speaker 2: You definitely do see quite a bit more uptake early 494 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,199 Speaker 2: uptake from those on the right, especially those that have 495 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,919 Speaker 2: libertarian leanings on the right. On the left, you are 496 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:16,680 Speaker 2: starting to see some movement though we do see RFK 497 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:18,639 Speaker 2: coming out in supportive of this. We also do have 498 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,119 Speaker 2: you know, in Congress, we have a blockchain Caucus and 499 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 2: there are dozens of members there and many of them 500 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 2: are Democrats, So you know, Richie Trus, You've got Darren 501 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 2: Soto among many others like Rocana, who are very supportive 502 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 2: of the digital asset space broadly. So although the I 503 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 2: would say it's more of a narrative war than it 504 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 2: is an actual conversation about who is for and against bitcoin. Yes, 505 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 2: right now, currently you do have an administration on the 506 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 2: left with Democrats, Biden administration with folks like Elizabeth Warren 507 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 2: who seemingly are you know, kind of charging forward with 508 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,160 Speaker 2: this narrative that we need to oppose the digital asset 509 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,159 Speaker 2: space by creating an anti crypto army. But that's not 510 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,280 Speaker 2: really the tone of the entire Democrat part party. In fact, 511 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,160 Speaker 2: you have senators like Ron Wyden who are being supportive 512 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 2: of the industry, who see the value of bitcoin mining 513 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,920 Speaker 2: as as something that can use green energy. We also 514 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 2: recently were meeting with various other folks in the Senate 515 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 2: and we're going to be going back here again soon 516 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 2: and we're having a ton of great conversations where people 517 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 2: do see the value of bitcoin mining as it as 518 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 2: an environmental cleanup tool, but also as something that could 519 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,879 Speaker 2: balance the grid and advance renewables in this country, and 520 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 2: that's something that all Democrats love. 521 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think I'm hearing two different things there, right. So, Like, 522 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 1: for sure, like I hear like some of the senators 523 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: that really care about their states and want to increase 524 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 1: you know, the grid dependent the grid independence, or even 525 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: the you know, the energy sectors in their states, and 526 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 1: so they see the benefits of having bitcoin for that perspective. 527 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 1: But then you know, when I listened to RFK Junior, 528 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:46,919 Speaker 1: I mean he's really saying that, like, you should just 529 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,920 Speaker 1: have the right to choose what you want, you should 530 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 1: have the freedom to use money. So I think I 531 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 1: think they're kind of getting at from both sides. 532 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I love what RFK is saying. I 533 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:58,719 Speaker 2: think if the you know, one of his best traits 534 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 2: has to be that he's very much a free market individual, 535 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:03,919 Speaker 2: and I think that that's where he derives his belief 536 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,880 Speaker 2: that people should have open and access to bitcoin. And 537 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 2: he also cares a lot about the environment, and fortunately 538 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 2: people have been able to get in and share with 539 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 2: him about the potential positive impact of bitcoin mining for 540 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 2: the environment. But RFK is not the president you know, 541 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 2: he is a candidate running for office. He's never held office, 542 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,440 Speaker 2: he's never been an elected official, although he's seemingly kind 543 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:23,919 Speaker 2: of rising in the polls and definitely rising in his 544 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 2: media attention. I mean, whoever the guy's media manager is 545 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,199 Speaker 2: needs to be getting paid top dollar once he exits 546 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 2: this campaign, because he's doing an incredible job of getting 547 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,360 Speaker 2: RFK into these sorts of media positions to get out 548 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,680 Speaker 2: the word on what his positions are on a variety 549 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,200 Speaker 2: of issues, and he has strong issues on a variety 550 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 2: of issues that Americans care about. So currently, like I said, 551 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:50,439 Speaker 2: you know, Biden current administration kind of negative towards bitcoin, 552 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:56,200 Speaker 2: bitcoin mining, but there are plenty of Democrats RFK, Darren Soto, Widen, 553 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,359 Speaker 2: many others who are supportive of the industry, and I 554 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 2: hope that we get a chance to see that more 555 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:02,359 Speaker 2: of that take place as time goes on. 556 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 1: Would you be concerned with Rfk's, you know, kind of 557 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 1: long standing environmental positions in regards to that. 558 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 2: He would be a massive upgrade over the current position 559 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 2: of what's taking place with the current Biden administration. He's 560 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 2: partly because he has been educated on the potential for 561 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 2: bitcoin mining to be good, a good tool for the environment, 562 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:25,679 Speaker 2: but also because he believes a lot more in free 563 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 2: market economics, and I don't think he would go out 564 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,439 Speaker 2: of his way to ban bitcoin mining. You know, he 565 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,640 Speaker 2: has said that he likes the idea of a free 566 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,120 Speaker 2: market environment for energy. Multiple times. He's been asked about 567 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 2: it as it pertains to nuclear energy and to wind 568 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 2: at solar, and he's come on the record multiple times 569 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:44,640 Speaker 2: saying that he believes in a free market for energy, 570 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 2: and I think that that's really what bitcoin mining needs 571 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 2: at this point. 572 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I did get a chance to speak with him 573 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 1: personally at Michael Sailor's house when we were in Miami, 574 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,879 Speaker 1: and I had a chance to actually have that exact 575 00:26:55,880 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 1: conversation with him about nuclear energy, and to be honest, 576 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 1: I was a little disappointed with his answer and stance 577 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 1: on that. And he's very educated, but it just seemed 578 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 1: a little bit misplaced in my opinion. And ultimately where 579 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 1: it came down to was he believes that nuclear power 580 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 1: is not safe and it's not cost effective, and we've had, 581 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 1: you know, depending on how you want to look at 582 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,680 Speaker 1: the data, we've had maybe a few hundred people die 583 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,920 Speaker 1: total in the history of nuclear power. None had died 584 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,920 Speaker 1: in the last you know, nuclear problem in Fukushima. Yet 585 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,719 Speaker 1: who knows how many people die in creation of solar panels, 586 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:34,640 Speaker 1: digging out minerals out of the ground and all that 587 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,199 Speaker 1: installing and probably falling off of the list whatever. So 588 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,160 Speaker 1: we've had you know, nuclear subs since the sixties, never 589 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 1: had a problem with it. So anyway, I was a 590 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:45,200 Speaker 1: little bit a little bit taken back by that stance. 591 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 1: But you know, we'll see. Now, if you're just tune in, 592 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 1: you're listening to the Markomas Show. I got to take 593 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,200 Speaker 1: a quick break, but I'm going to be right back, 594 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:52,919 Speaker 1: so don't go away, you don't want to miss it. 595 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:58,479 Speaker 1: I'll be right back, all right, Welcome back. If you're 596 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 1: just tune in, you're listening to the markma Show. I'm 597 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 1: sitting down with Dennis Porter from Soatoci Action Fund. We're 598 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,920 Speaker 1: talking about his work and the fun so Social Action 599 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 1: Funds work on educating in the political space and taking 600 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 1: action on that. Now, you know one thing, Dennis is 601 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 1: I'm curious. Obviously, you guys have been doing this for 602 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:18,679 Speaker 1: a while, and I'm sure some of it has been 603 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 1: some of your impact, but I think there's also a 604 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 1: bigger impact just happened in the mainstream, And I'm curious 605 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,479 Speaker 1: if you've seen maybe a little bit of a shift 606 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,919 Speaker 1: in the rhetoric around bitcoin specifically and maybe bitcoin mining 607 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: a little bit even more specifically, around some of the rhetoric. 608 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:35,920 Speaker 1: And so, you know, obviously we know some of the 609 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 1: hit pieces that have been done. You know, bitcoin is 610 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 1: going to consume more energy than the you know, the 611 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:44,719 Speaker 1: entire earth and things like that. We've seen stuff like that. 612 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 1: We saw the hit piece I referenced earlier, like New 613 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 1: York Times did and you know, the right bitcoin space 614 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 1: mining space. But then, you know, I'm curious, you know 615 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: now that we're starting to see you know, black Rock 616 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 1: coming in and like, hey, we're going to launch a 617 00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 1: fund atf Right and Fidelity and even Fidelity you know, 618 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 1: doing some mining and things like that, do you think 619 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 1: that will start to shift the mainstream media's portrayal of 620 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: what it is. I mean, Blackrock potentially is gonna have 621 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 1: a lot of money to spend towards getting people into 622 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 1: their edf do you you know, Blackrock is probably a 623 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 1: big sponsor of some of those mainstream media Do you 624 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 1: think are you starting to see it shift or do 625 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 1: you think that will start to shift. 626 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 2: It Absolutely, it will. You know, I've said for a 627 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 2: long time that you know, as bitcoin advances in the 628 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 2: United States and as the organizations with all the money 629 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 2: organizations like you know, black Rock start to come on 630 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 2: board and start to see the value of this technology, 631 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 2: that once they start to see that it's something that 632 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 2: they want to push to the folks within their fund 633 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 2: that they will actually turn around and use their political 634 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 2: power to protect bitcoin. So I think, you know, there's 635 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 2: something to be said about that, the fact that bitcoin 636 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 2: is very permissionless and it has a very strong incentive structure, 637 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 2: and so anybody can gain access to it, and it 638 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 2: is going to use its in strong incentive structure to 639 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 2: encourage everyone to be a part of it. And once 640 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 2: you're a part of it, you know, Mark like just 641 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 2: like myself, you know, all of a sudden, I've been 642 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 2: too bitcoin and five years later, I'm fighting at the 643 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 2: front lines trying to make sure that folks are educated 644 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 2: on this issue. I could probably get paid way better 645 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 2: to go do something else, but you know, I'm out 646 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 2: here trying to make sure that this technology is advocated 647 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 2: for and that Americans have access to it. So, yeah, 648 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 2: I do agree that that black Rock coming in will 649 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 2: be good in the sense that it will provide additional 650 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 2: resources and another voice kind of in the voids, so 651 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 2: to speak, a very large voice, one of the largest 652 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 2: or if not the largest fund in the entire world 653 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 2: coming in and supporting the industry. But also I do 654 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 2: see there is a churn or a shift in a 655 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 2: narrative taking place. We do see a lot of bad 656 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 2: articles coming out about bitcoin bitcoin wrining, but in the 657 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 2: last six months there has been a rapid uptick in 658 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 2: positive coverage. In fact, in the last month or two 659 00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 2: we have seen Forbes just come out with positive article 660 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 2: after positive article around bitcoin mining. That means that, you know, 661 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 2: the folks at the top at Forbes are starting to 662 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,280 Speaker 2: think that maybe that this is something that they had 663 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 2: gotten wrong in the past, and that now they are 664 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 2: starting to see the value of it. I think that 665 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 2: Forbes is just the beginning, and that you'll see more 666 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 2: of this take place. We should be giving a very 667 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 2: large shout out to people like Pierre Rashard, Daniel Batten, 668 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 2: and others who have done a lot of work to 669 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 2: try to convince folks that we need to be getting 670 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 2: behind bitcoin and that America needs to be leading on 671 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 2: this technology. 672 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 1: In regards to that. With America leading this technology, I 673 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 1: mean it is American technology, It was developed in America. 674 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 1: It has the American ethos built in right, strong private 675 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,719 Speaker 1: property rights, rule of law, et cetera, et cetera. And 676 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 1: you know, we saw, you know, China had over sixty 677 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 1: percent of the network capacity of the mining network capacity 678 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 1: in China, and then China took a very aggressive stance 679 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 1: and kicked it all out of the country and the 680 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 1: United States became a big beneficiary of that. You know, 681 00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 1: I'm not exactly sure. I don't know if the United 682 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:00,200 Speaker 1: States is about thirty percent of that. Now you can 683 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong on that, but you know, 684 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 1: we saw that the United States was sort of given 685 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 1: that role, handed handed that role almost by default. I'm 686 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 1: curious what you think the future is. I mean, if 687 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 1: the United States continues on the you know, restrictive warpath, 688 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: so to speak, does America lose its place with this technology? 689 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 1: And do you see other countries potentially stepping up to 690 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 1: challenge that role, like for example, Georgia we saw which 691 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 1: is obviously a very small country, but stepping in to 692 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 1: start mining it directly. Of course, you know El Salvador 693 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 1: has been talking about mind it directly. So do you think, 694 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 1: like a is it ours to lose? Do you think 695 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,240 Speaker 1: if they don't, if they don't quickly change, another country 696 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:37,600 Speaker 1: could take the lead on this. What's your viewpoint on that? 697 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 2: There's always opportunities for other countries to attract the bitcoin 698 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 2: digital asset space, bitcoin mining to their shores. And that's 699 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 2: the great thing about this technology is that it can 700 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 2: really be anywhere, anywhere that there's energy. However, that being said, 701 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,479 Speaker 2: I will say that the United States is in an 702 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 2: incredible position to keep a vast majority of the hash 703 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 2: rate inside of its orders, simply for the fact that 704 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:06,000 Speaker 2: we have a lot of inefficiencies where bitcoin miners can 705 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 2: take place over a vast area where they can start 706 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 2: to benefit from the lack of inefficiencies that are created 707 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 2: by wind and solar on the grid. But also we 708 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 2: have one of the most stable political systems in the 709 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 2: entire world. Now, you know, you go and you set 710 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 2: up in somewhere in Africa, somewhere in China, you name it, 711 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 2: you might go there. They might have cheaper power. But 712 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:28,480 Speaker 2: a couple of things could take place. One is you 713 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaker 2: might end up having to pay corruption charges. Like there 714 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 2: are people that will just charge you money just saying hey, 715 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:35,160 Speaker 2: you got to pay me money, or we're gonna we're 716 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,320 Speaker 2: gonna mess up your business, or you have to worry 717 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 2: about you know, for instance, Kazakhstan on the Internet going 718 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 2: down completely, or China designed to ban bitcoin mining. So 719 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,040 Speaker 2: those things are not taking place in the United States. 720 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 2: So far, we have not seen any sort of really 721 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 2: aggressive anti bitcoin mining policy take place other than just 722 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 2: solely in the state of New York where it's kind 723 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 2: of a one off situation. What about like. 724 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 1: Trial, what about like the whole Biden like thirty percent 725 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:00,080 Speaker 1: tax and all that. 726 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:05,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, sure the president can suggest whatever he wants, 727 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:07,800 Speaker 2: but it never really had a chance of passing through Congress, 728 00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,600 Speaker 2: and in fact was completely shut down during the deal 729 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 2: trading that happened for the budget limit trade I wish 730 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:15,279 Speaker 2: you called trade and good. 731 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:18,399 Speaker 1: But if that were to go through, then that would 732 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 1: qualify as very restrictive sort of like what these other 733 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:22,760 Speaker 1: countries have done potentially, right. 734 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:25,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, I mean a thirty percent tax would have 735 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,080 Speaker 2: virtually destroyed the industry overnight in the United States. 736 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 1: But you think there was really never a really strong 737 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 1: chance of that ever happening. It was more just like 738 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 1: some rhetoric. 739 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,240 Speaker 2: Absolutely rhetoric, very very very low chance of it happening. 740 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,480 Speaker 2: Like the thing is with bills, this is kind of 741 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 2: the way that you need to think about them, is 742 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,319 Speaker 2: that you can introduce a bill for free, but it 743 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,320 Speaker 2: takes a lot of work to get it passed. And yes, 744 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:51,000 Speaker 2: if the Biden administration was wholly invested in a thirty 745 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,759 Speaker 2: percent tax on bitcoin mining, they might have been able 746 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:55,960 Speaker 2: to squeak it out, but you have to remember there 747 00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,200 Speaker 2: are many other much more important topics and issues to 748 00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,439 Speaker 2: the administration then screwing bitcoin miners over with a thirty 749 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 2: percent tax. I mean, you're talking about the war in Ukraine, 750 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,319 Speaker 2: you're talking about the border, you're talking about health, you're 751 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:11,240 Speaker 2: talking about homelessness. This is not an issue that is worth, 752 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:16,080 Speaker 2: you know, even negotiating over. Fortunately, in a situation where 753 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:19,160 Speaker 2: we had the debt limit increase, where they were negotiating 754 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,319 Speaker 2: over that, Republicans had negotiated that they wanted no new 755 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,920 Speaker 2: additional taxes and that in that debt limit bill, which 756 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:30,160 Speaker 2: ultimately resulted in there not being any new taxes on 757 00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:32,840 Speaker 2: bitcoin mining. So kind of Fortunately we were swept up 758 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:34,400 Speaker 2: in that. But that's kind of how DC operates. Like 759 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:36,640 Speaker 2: you don't ever go to DC and just say I 760 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:40,080 Speaker 2: want this one bill to pass and it passed because 761 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,200 Speaker 2: it was such a good idea. Generally, it's like a 762 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,440 Speaker 2: movement or a wave of policy. Like you did you 763 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 2: know that the healthcare bill was thousands of pages with 764 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 2: hundreds of different types of policies in there. It's not 765 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,480 Speaker 2: just one little policy that passes. They oftentimes get grouped 766 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,359 Speaker 2: up into larger bills and passed or not passed. That's 767 00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,600 Speaker 2: generally the way it works in DC. And again, fortunate 768 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,400 Speaker 2: that for some reason within the Republican Party they were 769 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,000 Speaker 2: able to negotiate that they want to know new additional taxes. 770 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,880 Speaker 2: I mean, they're generally anti tax so that's part that's why. 771 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,279 Speaker 2: But for some reason that was a big part of 772 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:12,560 Speaker 2: their negotiation package. 773 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:14,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Well, like you said, I mean a lot 774 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:16,880 Speaker 1: of times they pass these giant omnibus bills that have 775 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:18,759 Speaker 1: all types of things stuffed in there that most people 776 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:19,919 Speaker 1: have no chance to even read. 777 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:20,160 Speaker 2: Right. 778 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:22,080 Speaker 1: And so for example, one of the things they do, 779 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,439 Speaker 1: which unfortunately seems like they're going to continue to spend 780 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:26,479 Speaker 1: more money We just saw how that debt ceiling debate 781 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:28,080 Speaker 1: went down. And when they want to pass these new 782 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:29,440 Speaker 1: spending bills, they have to figure ou how to get 783 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 1: the money from somewhere a lot of times, so take 784 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,279 Speaker 1: into attack, you know, new taxes into account or something 785 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:36,160 Speaker 1: like that, they figure out how to pay for that. So, 786 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,879 Speaker 1: you know, it's a matter of staying vigilant. Right, It's 787 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 1: my fear is that they My fear is that they 788 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,560 Speaker 1: do these things and then you know, they kind of 789 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:46,480 Speaker 1: throw it out against the wall. It's kind of outrageous. 790 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:48,000 Speaker 1: It's like a it's what you'd call like a drop 791 00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,839 Speaker 1: cell technique. Right, they throw something out outrageous that people 792 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:52,799 Speaker 1: object to, they take it away, and then they bring 793 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:54,720 Speaker 1: it back a little bit more tame, and then people 794 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:56,080 Speaker 1: kind of just like let it go through. So we 795 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:58,600 Speaker 1: definitely have to stay vigilant. So I love what you're 796 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,239 Speaker 1: doing with Toshi Action Fund. If you're just tuned in 797 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:03,399 Speaker 1: you're listening to the Mark Mos Show. I've been sitting 798 00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,200 Speaker 1: down with Dennis Porter from the Satoshi Action Fund, and 799 00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:08,959 Speaker 1: you should definitely check them out. Dennis anywhere else, anyone 800 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:10,400 Speaker 1: should follow along. 801 00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:12,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, if you want to follow us, you can sign 802 00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,760 Speaker 2: up for our newsletter by going to Satoshi Action dot io. 803 00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:18,400 Speaker 2: If you want to reach out to me personally, you 804 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,080 Speaker 2: can email me at Dennis at Satoshi action dot io. 805 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:23,399 Speaker 2: And we also, you know, have all of our Twitter 806 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:25,319 Speaker 2: accounts up and running if you if you look us up, 807 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:26,439 Speaker 2: you know, we'll show up right at. 808 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,040 Speaker 1: The top yep. And we're gonna make sure that we 809 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,440 Speaker 1: link all that in the show notes down below. Definitely 810 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,200 Speaker 1: give Dennis a follow and check them out. And that's 811 00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:35,320 Speaker 1: all we got. Thanks so much for listening today. Until 812 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:35,719 Speaker 1: next time,