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Speaker 1: Heads up, this series contains graphic descriptions of violence. So Quincy,

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Speaker 1: I have a couple questions that are going to be

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Speaker 1: difficult questions. It basically comes down to.

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Speaker 2: That night jivy Ill Jiv.

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Speaker 1: In one of my calls with Quincy Cross, I brought

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Speaker 1: up the concerns you heard last episode about the gas,

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Speaker 1: the belt, and his demeanor the night Jessica went missing.

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Speaker 1: These three things made Citizen Investigator Susan Galbreath home in

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Speaker 1: on Quincy and make him suspect number one on her list.

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Speaker 1: Not only that prosecutors would use these details in their

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Speaker 1: case against Quincy as proof of his guilt.

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Speaker 3: He was pouring gas into the car when Debbie Herkins bandied,

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Speaker 3: and he didn't have a belt.

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Speaker 4: Or shirt.

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Speaker 1: When I spoke to Quincy, his story remained relatively unchanged.

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Speaker 1: He went to a small party, borrowed a car, and

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Speaker 1: left around daybreak to go find something to eat. He

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Speaker 1: got lost and then the car broke down. Where did

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Speaker 1: you get the gas can?

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Speaker 2: Don't cash?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm failed.

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Speaker 2: I found at it was a pall and something else.

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Speaker 1: It's just shat, he says. He got the can and

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Speaker 1: started filling the tank. Then a deputy jailer stopped by

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Speaker 1: to help and saw him spilling gas on his pants.

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Speaker 1: As far as wanting to find girls that night, he says, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he brought that up at the party. It was full

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Speaker 1: of guys, like a whole bunch of boots, so maybe

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Speaker 1: that's what people at the party remembered. And the missing belt,

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Speaker 1: he thinks maybe he left it at the house when

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Speaker 1: he dozed off on the couch.

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Speaker 5: That wanted to get it off the edge of the

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Speaker 5: couch and kill on the couch.

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Speaker 1: These answers are unsatisfying, and they don't look great if

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Speaker 1: I'm being honest, But they would concern me more if

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Speaker 1: the case against Quincy weren't so flimsy, Because when you

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Speaker 1: look deeper into the actual evidence presented at Quincy's trial

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Speaker 1: and the story the prosecution told about how Jessica was killed,

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Speaker 1: these two details lose their damning power, and I'd go

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Speaker 1: as far as saying they don't even matter at all.

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Speaker 1: This is Graves County, Chapter three, Persons of Interest. After

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Speaker 1: interviewing Quincy under false pretenses, Susan Goalbreath was going to

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Speaker 1: get him for Jessica Curran's murder. She knew it was him.

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Speaker 1: The gas the belt. It made too much sense. I

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Speaker 1: just needed to figure out how, why, and with whom.

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Speaker 1: One of the things Susan did next was find the

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Speaker 1: names of exactly who all had been at the party

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Speaker 1: at Chris Drive, the same one Quincy was at the

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Speaker 1: night of the murder. It was a small gathering, but

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Speaker 1: it was one of many on that street that night,

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Speaker 1: so people came and went. Susan started by going over

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Speaker 1: original police interviews from the days after Jessica's body was

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Speaker 1: found on August first, two thousand.

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Speaker 6: I immediately started laying out the transcripts, and if I've

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Speaker 6: talked too much, I apologize.

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Speaker 2: I have a bad habit of it.

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Speaker 1: But during trial, Susan recalls that in the transcripts, partygoers

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Speaker 1: mentioned two guests whose names remained a mystery.

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Speaker 6: These two white boys stopped by five minutes then Chris

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Speaker 6: Try So for some reason, I thought they were so

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Speaker 6: they were important because they kept asking about him.

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Speaker 1: One party goer told police that the two guys had

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Speaker 1: come from a nearby gathering, but they only stayed for

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Speaker 1: a minute or two.

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Speaker 2: I caught.

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Speaker 1: Through some digging, Susan says, she managed to identify them.

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Speaker 1: Then she called the Kentucky State Police.

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Speaker 6: I had called Sam Steer and I said, look, I said,

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Speaker 6: I got the name of those two white boys with

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Speaker 6: Jeffrey Burton.

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Speaker 1: Jeff Burton, a scrawny guy from around town who was

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Speaker 1: close to his mom. Grew up going to church and

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Speaker 1: playing baseball, though like many in Mayfield, he went through

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Speaker 1: a rough patch. He quit high school, got busted for drugs,

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Speaker 1: and got into fights. But by the time Susan found

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Speaker 1: his name, he was in his mid twenties with a

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Speaker 1: wife and three kids, getting his life together and mostly

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Speaker 1: keeping to himself. In a two thousand and seven email

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Speaker 1: to journalist Tom Mangold, Susan reveals what had interest at

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Speaker 1: her about Jeff. A colleague will be reading Susan's emails.

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Speaker 7: I had found out earlier that Burton's house was near

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Speaker 7: the middle school. I quit focusing on what I already

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Speaker 7: knew and went after what I didn't know.

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Speaker 1: Jeff's house was close to the middle school where Jessica's

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Speaker 1: body was found. Susan writes that she went to Jeff's

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Speaker 1: house ready to knock on the door. She wanted to

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Speaker 1: know what he was up to the night of the murder.

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Speaker 7: Long story short, I finally found Burton's house. I was

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Speaker 7: so excited I pulled.

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Speaker 1: But when Susan arrived to the house, there was no

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Speaker 1: one living there. It was completely abandoned, she writes Tom.

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Speaker 7: As I walked around the house, I saw a garage.

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Speaker 7: It was so eerie I could see inside the house.

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Speaker 1: She walks back to the garage.

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Speaker 7: The air was still. There were houses close by, but

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Speaker 7: it felt as though time stood still. The driveway and

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Speaker 7: garage were totally surrounded by brush and foliage.

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Speaker 1: She creeps closer.

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Speaker 7: I crept over to the door and was overwhelmed with

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Speaker 7: the feeling of dread. I didn't go in for fear

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Speaker 7: of changing the scene. I was so excited. I knew

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Speaker 7: I had finally found where they had Jessica. I knew

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Speaker 7: this house was connected to her. It's hard to.

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Speaker 1: Explain another spiritual moment. Perhaps up until then, the police

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Speaker 1: had maintained that Jessica was attacked and killed at the

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Speaker 1: middle school, according to records I've reviewed. Susan also had

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Speaker 1: it as the crime scene in her murder theories, but

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Speaker 1: in this email to Tom, Susan expresses that once she

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Speaker 1: got to Jeff's house, she just knew it was connected

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Speaker 1: to Jessica's death.

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Speaker 7: I told Lee Wise about everything, and he told me

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Speaker 7: he would check into it on his next trip into town.

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Speaker 1: Susan shared her new thing theory with law enforcement, and

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Speaker 1: sure enough that winter agents also visited Jeff's house.

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Speaker 4: We're in the city of Mayfield, Kentucky present and the

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Speaker 4: vehicle is myself, David James, Agent bib O'Neil, Agent Lee Wise.

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Speaker 1: The agents recorded the visit, but by that time it

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Speaker 1: had been demolished.

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Speaker 2: This would be the house where Jeff Burton resided. The

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Speaker 2: house is now gone.

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Speaker 1: And what you hear in these tapes seven years after

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Speaker 1: Jessica's murder is a shift in the official murder theory.

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Speaker 1: The crime scene is no longer the middle school.

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Speaker 2: This is a house where they took Jessica to she

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Speaker 2: was allegedly killed.

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Speaker 1: Also, up until this point, the police didn't have a

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Speaker 1: reason to believe Jessica had been raped or sexually assaulted.

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Speaker 1: They hadn't found any physical evidence of it, like trauma

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Speaker 1: on her body that suggested assault or seamen. Because because

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Speaker 1: her underwear was found ripped laying next to her, it

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Speaker 1: was a possibility one that Susan and Tom jumped onto

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Speaker 1: and which you heard last episode.

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Speaker 7: We were pretty certain by now that Quincy Cross, together

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Speaker 7: with other accomplices, had murdered Jessica in a sex and

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Speaker 7: drugs frenzy.

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Speaker 1: But they hadn't been able to corroborate their hunch. So

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and seven, when Victoria Caldwell responded to

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Speaker 1: Susan's friend request on MySpace, Susan was elated and let Victoria.

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Speaker 7: Know, you just gave me goosebumps.

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Speaker 8: Hun.

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Speaker 7: Of course I can help you, she replied to Victoria.

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Speaker 7: I'll do anything I can for you. I promise you.

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Speaker 7: I'm sitting here with tears rolling down my face. I

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Speaker 7: had no idea. I have friends in high places, Hun,

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Speaker 7: and I can probably help you a lot. In fact,

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Speaker 7: I know I can.

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Speaker 1: Susan was convinced Victoria was the key to cracking the

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Speaker 1: case against Quincy Cross. Yes, because Victoria had been tangentially

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Speaker 1: involved in this case from the beginning.

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Speaker 9: I met the Make That High School in the conference

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Speaker 9: room outside of time for Rogers President as myself, Detective

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Speaker 9: camp Fortner, and also have Victoria Caldwell.

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Speaker 1: Just days after Jessica's death, Victoria told police she heard

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Speaker 1: people talking about killing.

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Speaker 10: Jessica at the core because that'll it.

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Speaker 1: But then she moved to California and virtually disappeared from

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Speaker 1: the case until two thousand and six, when she emerged again. First,

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Speaker 1: she called the state police to say she'd overheard relevant

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Speaker 1: information about the Jessica Current murder. Then she made contact

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Speaker 1: with Susan, saying she knew things that could put her

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Speaker 1: in danger. By this time, a third investigative agency had

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Speaker 1: taken over the case, the Kentucky Bureau of Investigation, or KBI.

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Speaker 1: Susan built a rapport with them like she did with

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Speaker 1: our predecessors, and on Susan's tip, the KBI traveled to

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Speaker 1: California to interview Victoria Caldwell.

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Speaker 4: The age day it is more than twelve, two thousand

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Speaker 4: and seven and it's you.

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Speaker 11: I'll visit to the Santo Marea and trying to flow

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Speaker 11: in adiators too in that this interview with was Victoria Barwell.

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Speaker 1: Victoria Caldwell sounds and looks like a young girl, even

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Speaker 1: though she was twenty two when the KBI first spoke

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Speaker 1: to her. There's an innocence to her tone.

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Speaker 12: Oh norma start from beginning, Yeah, okay.

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Speaker 1: She has a bashful gaze and chubby cheeks that enhance

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Speaker 1: her childlike features. During the interview, Victoria says she felt

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Speaker 1: unsafe in Mayfield. She tells the KBI Quincy had threatened

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Speaker 1: her over the phone to stay quiet about anything she

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Speaker 1: may have over herd about Jessica's murder.

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Speaker 12: Yeah, you know, you know it was my belt around

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Speaker 12: her neck. You met it was And I was just like, no, no,

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Speaker 12: I don't know anything. And you just got said you know,

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Speaker 12: you know, he said you mad, you make you disappear,

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Speaker 12: And I was like, okay, Like that's why I got

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Speaker 12: a panic.

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Speaker 1: In this interview, Victoria told the KBI that he'd been

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Speaker 1: threatening her for over a year, and even though she

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Speaker 1: didn't have his threats on tape, there was a recording

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Speaker 1: of her sister Rosie, telling Victoria that Quincy was after her.

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Speaker 1: In May two thousand and six. Rosie is saying, Quincy

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Speaker 1: is going to kill your motherfucking ass. The KBI took

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Speaker 1: these threats seriously, so the agents moved Victoria from California

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Speaker 1: to North Carolina and into state witness protection, and soon after,

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Speaker 1: authorities would blast Quincy's face and name in the local

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Speaker 1: news as an armed and dangerous suspect wanted for the

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Speaker 1: murder of Jessica current. Hello, mister Sumbo, get.

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Speaker 4: To see you.

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Speaker 9: Hi, Maggie, how are you.

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Speaker 1: I am well, so, like Rebecca said, my internet's kind

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Speaker 1: of slow over here, so I'm probably.

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Speaker 8: Going to turn.

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Speaker 1: The reason these state agents got involved in the first

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Speaker 1: place was Greg Stumbo.

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Speaker 9: Mayfield's not known for having violent crimes, and it's a

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Speaker 9: little sleepy town in Kentucky, or you know, everybody sort

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Speaker 9: of knows everybody. It's a farming community, and this type

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Speaker 9: of crime was obviously not something that happens very very often.

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Speaker 1: Stumbo served thirty six years in public office, including four

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Speaker 1: as the Attorney General of Kentucky from two thousand and

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Speaker 1: four to two thousand and eight, the years when Susan

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Speaker 1: started looking into the case and working with the state police.

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Speaker 1: While on the campaign trail, Stumbo met Jessica's dad, Joe Curran,

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Speaker 1: at a political events, and.

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Speaker 9: Joe sought me out and told me about his daughter's

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Speaker 9: tragic death and it hadn't been solved.

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Speaker 1: Joe had been marching and demanding that law enforcement solve

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Speaker 1: his daughter's case.

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Speaker 2: We went to see the county attorney, We went to

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Speaker 2: see the police chief, We went to see.

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Speaker 1: The sheriff, and now he had the ear of the

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Speaker 1: potential state attorney general. Stumbo made a promise to Joe and.

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Speaker 9: I told Joe Current that day, I said, if I'm elected,

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Speaker 9: I will do my best to solve that case.

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Speaker 1: Stumbo won and he did exactly that.

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Speaker 2: This guy decided to do something on it, so we

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Speaker 2: would have regular meetings with my KBI Commissioner, David James.

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Speaker 1: Stumbo revamped the investigative unit the Attorney General's office had

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Speaker 1: at the time.

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Speaker 9: We changed the name. I like the name, the Kentucky

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Speaker 9: Breau Investigation and make them a more effective investigating unit.

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Speaker 1: They tackled major crimes like drug trafficking, fraud, and public corruption.

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Speaker 1: The KBI wasn't formed to solve homicides, but Stumbo had

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Speaker 1: made a promise to Joe Kurrent, the KBI was on it.

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Speaker 1: The man Stumbo chose to lead the agency happened to

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Speaker 1: be black, and he thought it would be beneficial to

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Speaker 1: send black agents to Mayfield. He figured black agents would

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Speaker 1: have more success getting people to open up than the

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Speaker 1: previous white law enforcement officers.

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Speaker 9: But just so happened we had two very good African

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Speaker 9: American agents and they were big guys, you know, big

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Speaker 9: impressive footing gas. We sent them down there, and sure enough,

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Speaker 9: the local people in the African American community who had

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Speaker 9: knowledge about that crime, who were afraid to talk to

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Speaker 9: the Mayfield police about it or the Kentucky State pleaseers

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Speaker 9: began spill into veins.

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Speaker 1: Like Victoria Caldwell.

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Speaker 2: They confronted her.

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Speaker 9: She wrote down, tell the whole story.

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Speaker 1: The story that would end up implicating herself. Jeff Burton, Tammer, Caldwell,

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Speaker 1: Venetia Stubblefield, and Quincy Cross. But the agents had never

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Speaker 1: investigated a homicide. They were two former narcotics cops who

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Speaker 1: used a series of unorthodox tactics to elicit several confessions.

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Speaker 1: And these tactics start with the place they conducted some

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Speaker 1: of their key interviews and.

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Speaker 11: Presently located in the conference room of the Dry Sweets

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Speaker 11: located in.

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Speaker 1: Paducah, Kentucky, the Drury Inn and Suites in Paducah, Kentucky.

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Speaker 1: Not a police station, but a modest hotel about thirty

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Speaker 1: minutes from Mayfield, the kind of place with free hot breakfast,

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Speaker 1: seventy style looking conference rooms, and limited surveillance.

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Speaker 13: They never did bring me my rights or anything. They

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Speaker 13: just had me get in the car and I was like, well,

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Speaker 13: where am I going? They would not tell me where

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Speaker 13: I was going at all until I got there.

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Speaker 1: I thought that I was going to the police station.

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Speaker 1: Tammer Caldwell was among their persons of interest. She's Victoria's cousin,

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Speaker 1: the homebody who never went anywhere without her babies and

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Speaker 1: who dated Quincy Cross. He was great with her kids.

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Speaker 1: Victoria had implicated both of them and her interviews with

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Speaker 1: the KBI, and now they were being questioned by law enforcement,

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Speaker 1: including two agents who made it clear that they already

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Speaker 1: knew the truth. They just needed their suspects to confirm it.

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Speaker 4: Don't you know we already know?

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Speaker 1: I know y'all know what Lee Wise takes the lead,

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Speaker 1: imposing and commanding.

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Speaker 11: You look so pathetic, faking those who rocking in that

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Speaker 11: and telling them lie, girl, Look, I don't.

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Speaker 14: Know a fool.

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Speaker 1: Agent. Babo'neil is mild mannered and more reserved.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Quincy, you have the right to remain silent.

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Speaker 15: Anything you say Cannon will be held against you in

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Speaker 15: the court.

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Speaker 4: With these rights in mind, do you wish to talk

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Speaker 4: with us now? Sure?

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Speaker 2: All right?

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Speaker 1: Quincy actually turned himself in after seeing his name and

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Speaker 1: face on the news, so you.

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Speaker 11: Know, And I ain't never been the type of drong,

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Speaker 11: so I ain't dope.

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Speaker 5: So I'll bet I'll turn to myself in you know

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Speaker 5: what I mean, I'd rather come to you instead.

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Speaker 4: Have you look for me.

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Speaker 1: Quincy and everyone else who was taken to the drury

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Speaker 1: and in sweets went willingly. No one was under arrest,

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Speaker 1: and no one had an attorney present. Tammer tells me

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Speaker 1: she was questioned for hours on end forever. I'm talking

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Speaker 1: about like nineteen hot words. The interviews turned interrogations are confusing,

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Speaker 1: chaotic and taxing.

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Speaker 4: You hear what I said, you crying, but your eyes.

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Speaker 11: You're sitting there doing what you've got done for your

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00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:17,399
Speaker 11: entire life. If you're lying and you're not accustomed to

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Speaker 11: be hailed accountable for your actions.

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Speaker 1: In this clip, they're yelling at Tamera while she weeps.

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Speaker 1: She's wearing a collared blue and white pinstriped shirt, her

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Speaker 1: hair is in a side pony, and she looks like

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Speaker 1: a little girl. She's trapped alone in a hotel room

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Speaker 1: with law enforcement, thirty minutes from home and very few people.

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Speaker 1: If anyone knows she's there, oh, terrified.

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Speaker 2: That would tell me.

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Speaker 13: If you don't tell the truth, you're gonna get shipped

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Speaker 13: up the river. You're never gonna get to see your

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Speaker 13: kids graduate, You're never going to maup to anything.

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00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:06,159
Speaker 1: The KBI also brought in Rosie, Victoria's sister as a

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Speaker 1: corroborating witness against Jeff Quincy and Tamra. Rosie says they

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Speaker 1: interrogated her for two days.

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Speaker 3: They told me I was lying, he kept telling me

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Speaker 3: to shut up, and then they told me that they

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Speaker 3: could take my kids away from me.

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Speaker 1: And the line of questioning is also disturbingly focused on

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Speaker 1: the women's sex lives.

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Speaker 11: What type of sex did he like or was he

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Speaker 11: did he enjoy?

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Speaker 4: Or sex or sex?

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Speaker 8: Yes?

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Speaker 2: What's your sexual preference?

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Speaker 4: Are you by sex? Or you're lesbian?

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Speaker 1: Especially about the women being lesbians?

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Speaker 4: You considered yourself a lesbian?

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Speaker 13: No, you know, I think right after that, right after

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Speaker 13: he asked me if I was, when he stuck his

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Speaker 13: hand up on the table and was rubbing on my leg.

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Speaker 1: Jeff Burton was also brought in The White Kid, Susan

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Speaker 1: Golbroth had found I don't want to go to jail.

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Speaker 16: I don't want to go to jail, but I don't

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Speaker 16: want to sit here and listen to this lies.

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Speaker 12: I don't want to listen to these lies, man, I

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Speaker 12: don't want to.

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Speaker 1: And they squeezed him, all of them for confessions.

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Speaker 2: It's gonna be your word against five or six other people.

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Speaker 4: And you know what it takes. You know what it takes.

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Speaker 4: All it takes is for jury to either the jury

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Speaker 4: to believe what you say or what they say. That's

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Speaker 4: messed up. That's messed up.

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Speaker 16: If that's the case, and that's how it goes down,

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Speaker 16: and that is messed up.

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Speaker 1: To me, it sounds like the agents learned how to

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Speaker 1: be detectives from watching Law and Order.

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Speaker 4: And I hope you a good surfer, baby. I'm giving

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Speaker 4: you one wave.

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Speaker 11: You better ride this way until you done, because you're

350
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Speaker 11: not gonna get another way from me. Okay, yes, So

351
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Speaker 11: if you can't surf, you better lay down on that board.

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Speaker 4: And hope it.

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Speaker 1: In these KBI videos, only the interview he is visible.

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Speaker 1: All law enforcement are off camera. We don't know what

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Speaker 1: they were or were not doing out a frame, or

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Speaker 1: who is in the hotel room. Think of videos you

357
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Speaker 1: see in police stations. The camera is usually above. You

358
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Speaker 1: can see the whole room. Everyone in it that didn't

359
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 1: happen here. Plus video and tape recorders were turned on

360
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Speaker 1: and off frequently.

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Speaker 13: They would ask me questions and they would cut the

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Speaker 13: recorder off.

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Speaker 4: We're gonna go off record for about ten minutes, and.

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Speaker 13: And he go in this room and he come back

365
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Speaker 13: in and unpiles the record or whatever and start talking

366
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Speaker 13: crazy to.

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Speaker 4: Me, and we're back on record.

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Speaker 1: At one point during Jeff's interrogation, Rosie is brought into

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Speaker 1: the room to identify.

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Speaker 4: Him Jeff Burton, Jeff Burton.

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Speaker 1: If you know anything about witness identification or lineups, this

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Speaker 1: is absolutely not how it's done. Looking back, Jeff says,

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Speaker 1: the whole thing was mind boggling.

374
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Speaker 16: I feel like they're telling me that, you know, we

375
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Speaker 16: already got to prove, just tell us. And I'm like, man,

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Speaker 16: I didn't have anything to do with this stuff.

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Speaker 4: Now charge me with whatever you want to.

378
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Speaker 16: I did not know her, and I did not kill

379
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Speaker 16: her or rape or burn or any of that other

380
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Speaker 16: stuff that y'all said. This can't be real life.

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Speaker 2: You can't be And I know.

382
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Speaker 16: That that right there was a crock of shit, But

383
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Speaker 16: that makes me think that all this is freaking fake

384
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Speaker 16: as hell.

385
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Speaker 4: Man.

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Speaker 1: But the kbi's tactics worked. After weeks of interrogations at

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Speaker 1: the hotel and elsewhere, they got the confessions they were

388
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Speaker 1: looking for, first from Victoria, who, over the course of

389
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Speaker 1: at least six interviews with the KBI, goes from having

390
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 1: only heard about the murder and possible suspects to actually

391
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Speaker 1: witnessing the kidnapping, rape and killing of Jessica and anticipating

392
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Speaker 1: in the abuse of her dead body then Venetia for

393
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,640
Speaker 1: seven years. Venetia told police that she did not see

394
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Speaker 1: Jessica after they said goodbye that Saturday night in two thousand.

395
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:18,680
Speaker 1: Now after at least two separate days of KBI interrogations.

396
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 1: Her story resembles Victoria's.

397
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 4: Uh has glinsely done anything just to just.

398
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Speaker 1: She says she actually went looking for Jessica that night,

399
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 1: then ran into Tamra Victoria, Jeff and Quincy and that

400
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 1: he was rubbing honor and touching on her and.

401
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,720
Speaker 3: Stuff and told her if she hadn't cooperated, he was

402
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Speaker 3: gonna put him that toy.

403
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 1: Venetia is slumped in her chair. She looks exhausted, shrunken,

404
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 1: and you can hear her trying to find the right words.

405
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 4: Nobody struca nobody did anything hit her.

406
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:02,440
Speaker 11: Women, you didn't say that though I asked you, Oh,

407
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Speaker 11: I asked you what happened to.

408
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:07,400
Speaker 4: Just in that car?

409
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:12,640
Speaker 1: Changing her answers, according to the response from agents O'Neill

410
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 1: and Wise.

411
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 4: Suck it's Quincy Steer, Well, thank you.

412
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,359
Speaker 1: She eventually says they did drugs and took Jessica to

413
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 1: Jeff's house. Then Quincy and the others raped her. But

414
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 1: the agents are not satisfied with just saying rape. They

415
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,639
Speaker 1: need details, graphic details.

416
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 4: I want you to see it. What was he doing

417
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Speaker 4: to her?

418
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 1: And they keep asking about semen.

419
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:56,680
Speaker 4: I'm a sa was on her body? Who put it there?

420
00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 7: I love?

421
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 1: I want to point out that this line of questioning

422
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 1: might make sense in a rape case where a body

423
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 1: was covered in fluids.

424
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 11: Coincident ejaculated all over our body, right, and y'all still

425
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 11: kissing on them, rubbing on the ride?

426
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 4: Am a right?

427
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 8: Yes?

428
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 1: But in the case of Jessica Curran, there was no

429
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 1: evidence of rape or a sexual assault on Jessica's body,

430
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 1: and especially no seamen. There are glaring inconsistencies in Victoria

431
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 1: and Venetia's statements, like Venetia cannot confidently say if Quincy,

432
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 1: jeff Or Tamra struck Jessica with any object, but Victoria

433
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 1: says Quincy hits Jessica in the head with a mini

434
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,720
Speaker 1: baseball bat while in the car, and they buried the

435
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 1: bat in her sister Rosy's yard. But when the KBI

436
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,879
Speaker 1: went to search Rosy's yard, they only found a wrench,

437
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 1: to which Victoria then changes her story to add that

438
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: Quincy also hit Jessica with a wrench in the house.

439
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 1: The bat was never recovered. A note on this timeline

440
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 1: of the crime, though Quincy had to have committed the kidnapping, rape,

441
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 1: and murder of Jessica current in the time he left

442
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: the party at daybreak and when he was spotted by

443
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 1: the deputy jailer around seven forty a m possible, sure,

444
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:34,920
Speaker 1: but very tight and there are big holes in the

445
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:40,440
Speaker 1: kbis theory that all these people assaulted and killed Jessica. First,

446
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 1: there were no fingerprints or DNA linking any of them

447
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 1: to the murder. In fact, Quincy's DNA and clothing were

448
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 1: tested shortly after Jessica's death in two thousand and nothing

449
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 1: from Quincy matches the crime scene. On top of that,

450
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 1: the only thing that links to the scene of the

451
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 1: crime is the fragment of a braided belt found near

452
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 1: Jessica's neck, Yet we don't know for a fact that's

453
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:14,919
Speaker 1: Quincy's belt, and investigators desperately tried to find evidence to

454
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:19,159
Speaker 1: prove their theory of the crime, searching everywhere from vehicles

455
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:25,440
Speaker 1: to houses. Law enforcement even exhumed Jessica's body to retest

456
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 1: for evidence, and nothing. None exists matching any of these

457
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 1: people to Jessica's death or crime scene. And there's one

458
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 1: other glaring red flag.

459
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 13: I didn't know Quincy into two thousand and two, so

460
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 13: how could I have something to do with it?

461
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 1: In this case? Happened in two thousand Remember I told

462
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 1: you Tamar and Quincy met while she was visiting her

463
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 1: brother in jail. That was two years after Jessica's death.

464
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 1: Quincy and Tamra maintained and to this day they did

465
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 1: not know each other. In two thousand and I feel

466
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 1: don't know Jeff Burton Quincy Cross.

467
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 16: I didn't know him, didn't hang around him.

468
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 1: Jeff says he had never even met Quincy and he

469
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 1: only knew Tamra from school. Despite there being no physical evidence,

470
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 1: flimsy stories, inconsistencies suspects not even knowing each other at

471
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: the time of the murder, and adamant claims of innocence.

472
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: The KBI brought that case to the Attorney General's office,

473
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 1: and under Greg Stumbo's leadership, the state of Kentucky moved

474
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 1: forward to try Quincy Cross as a depraved evil man.

475
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 9: There's no doubt in my mind that we called the

476
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 9: right person. There's no evidence that would lead you anywhere else.

477
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 9: I mean, you have a direct eyewitness account.

478
00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 2: Of what happened.

479
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: Seven years after Jessica Curran was killed, Venetia Stubblefield, Victoria Caldwell,

480
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 1: Tamra Caldwell, Jeff Burton, and Quincy Cross were arrested, charged

481
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: and indicted based largely on the accounts of two girls

482
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 1: and circumstantial evidence. That's it. That's all the prosecution had.

483
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 1: And at trial, cracks in those stories start to split,

484
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 1: until the entire prosecution's case is left with gaping holes.

485
00:30:39,960 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 8: That's after the break.

486
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 2: All right, good morning, let me go through the rome.

487
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 14: Make sure we've got everyone here that's supposed to be here.

488
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 1: Quincy was the first to go to trial in spring

489
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 1: of two thousand and eight. By then, news of Jessica's

490
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 1: death and the salacious story behind it had spread through

491
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: Graves County, so the judge agreed to move the trial

492
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 1: to Hickman County to avoid any kind of bias the

493
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 1: jury from Graves could have.

494
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 4: All right, is Commonwealth ready to proceed?

495
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 1: The small courthouse was full and it was tense. On

496
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 1: one side there was Quincy's relatives sitting in complete disbelief

497
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 1: that he was being accused of such crimes, and on

498
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 1: the other Jessica's loved ones with eight years of pent

499
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 1: up frustration and pain.

500
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 2: Commonwealthlack to make an opening statement.

501
00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 1: The lead prosecutor on Quincy's case was Assistant Attorney General

502
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 1: Barbara Mainz Whaley, but it.

503
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 13: Took a long long time to get people to talk

504
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 13: about this because of their fear.

505
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 1: Waaley is a career prosecutor. She's been Assistant Attorney General

506
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 1: since nineteen eighty two and is said to be one

507
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 1: of the most experienced prosecutors in the Commonwealth. Some people

508
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 1: may know her from being one of the special prosecutors

509
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: to investigate police officers in the twenty twenty killing of

510
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 1: Breonna Taylor. Wailey was seeking the death penalty against Quincy.

511
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 1: His defense attorneys only had about a year to prepare,

512
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 1: and the prosecution didn't make it easy. They dumped thousands

513
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 1: of documents on the defense in the run up to trial.

514
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 17: We're the dates of the items that there are given

515
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 17: us go back as much as seven years.

516
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 1: Quincy's attorney is complaining to the judge. He says, it's

517
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 1: been virtually impossible to get through all the files to

518
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: properly prepare for a death penalty case.

519
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 17: I don't know if it's a Chinese warded torture or

520
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 17: death by ten thousand cuts one or two.

521
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 1: But the judge denied a motion for more time and

522
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 1: the trial continued on schedule. And despite the advantage over

523
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: the defense, Waley knew this would be a hard case

524
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 1: because of how many players and stories there were. In

525
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 1: her opening statement, she prepares the jury for this.

526
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 3: Rumors build on rumors and more winners and talks read

527
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 3: like wildfire.

528
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 1: They field, but the agents with the KBI were allegedly

529
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: able to find the truth that on the early hours

530
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 1: of Sunday, July thirtieth, two thousand, Tamer Caldwell, Victoria Caldwell,

531
00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: Venetia Stubblefield, Jeff Burton, and Quincy Cross picked up Jessica

532
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 1: Curran and took her to Jeff Burton's house, where they

533
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 1: raped and killed her in a drug fueled haze. Quincy

534
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 1: then forced the girls to have sex with Jessica's dead body.

535
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 1: Then they stored her body in Jeff's garage until she

536
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 1: was moved and set on fire with gas lane and

537
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 1: set on fire outside the middle school a day later.

538
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 4: On the Monday following.

539
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 1: She was found the following day on Tuesday. One of

540
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: the first witnesses, Barbara Willie Calls, is the state medical

541
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 1: examiner at the time of Jessica's death. He says, besides

542
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 1: being burned.

543
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 2: And there were traumatic injuries on the head and face,

544
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:45,240
Speaker 2: and there were lacerations on the back.

545
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 4: Of the head.

546
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 1: He says Jessica also had injuries similar to that of

547
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 1: a stab wound, but he ruled her likely manner of

548
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 1: death was blunt injury and strangulation. He admits there's no

549
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 1: actual evidence of strength, but he says the other injuries

550
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 1: on Jessica were not significant enough to cause death alone,

551
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 1: plus the piece of belt found near her neck suggested strangulation.

552
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 2: Basically, when everything was completed and looked at that, I

553
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,800
Speaker 2: thought was very significant in her cause.

554
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 4: Death good toldly makes you waitness, please Nisa so Field.

555
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: Jessica's friends and family are called school personnel investigators and

556
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 1: locals from around town. They have partygoers from Chris Drive

557
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,839
Speaker 1: testify about seeing Quincy wave his belt around and talk

558
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:47,360
Speaker 1: about wanting to go find girls. But Victoria and Venetia

559
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:52,400
Speaker 1: are Whaley's star witnesses, and much like in their interrogations,

560
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 1: their testimonies differ in key aspects at trial. After that

561
00:35:58,239 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 1: we all got out the corn when I said that.

562
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 1: Else In Venetia's story, Jessica walks in Jeff Burton's house.

563
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 4: How did you get in the house?

564
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 1: He might, I'll walk in there. Victoria, on the other hand,

565
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 1: testifies that Jessica was knocked out and then carried inside

566
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 1: the house.

567
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 10: Quincy and Jeff carrie Jessica's body to the side at

568
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:25,799
Speaker 10: the side door.

569
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 1: Discrepancies are to be expected when a case is eight

570
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 1: years old and the women testifying routines at the time

571
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:42,360
Speaker 1: of the crime. But I will say messing up details

572
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 1: like whether or not you carried an unconscious body inside

573
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 1: the house is kind of major. But the prosecution had

574
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:55,280
Speaker 1: back up. They called Rosie to confirm what Victoria told

575
00:36:55,320 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 1: the KBI that Quincy threatened Victoria to stay quiet. You

576
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 1: heard the call earlier.

577
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 3: I remember that he said he was gonna kill my sister.

578
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 3: I remember that Victoria.

579
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 1: And the prosecution had another key piece of evidence, a

580
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:17,800
Speaker 1: diary that Victoria allegedly kept where she detailed her life

581
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 1: and the crime.

582
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 4: And read August first. What does it say?

583
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 10: It says, damn, they found the body. I'm not sure

584
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,360
Speaker 10: what the other word says. I hope they don't find

585
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:41,360
Speaker 10: out it was us. Fuck man, it says Q is

586
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,879
Speaker 10: nowhere to be found. JEP don't want to talk to me.

587
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 10: This is bullshit, says fuck. I am out.

588
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 1: The defense strategy was to question the validity of everything,

589
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 1: from the diary to the prosecution circle substantial evidence to

590
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 1: witness testimonies, and they were successful in some areas, like

591
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 1: poking holes in Victoria's numerous stories on.

592
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 10: Some parts, yes, some parts now.

593
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 1: The defense also called their own expert, the former Kentucky

594
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 1: Chief Medical Examiner, to refute the questionable findings of strangulation.

595
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 17: Are you able to provide in the jury a cause

596
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:31,240
Speaker 17: of death.

597
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 4: In this case?

598
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,840
Speaker 15: No, sir, I am not. There's no anatomic cause of

599
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 15: death determined in this case. I can tell you that

600
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 15: she could have been strangled, but there is no evidence

601
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 15: that she was strangled.

602
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 1: The defense's medical expert explains that a telltale sign of

603
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 1: strangulation is bruising and a broken hyoid bone in the neck,

604
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 1: which there was not.

605
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 15: That there's no external documentation of any injury on the

606
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 15: skin or the sucutaneous tissues deep to the skin that

607
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,320
Speaker 15: shows any evidence that trauma was applied.

608
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:09,320
Speaker 2: To the area.

609
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 15: Now you can get strangulation injuries.

610
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:18,279
Speaker 1: The defense wanted to make four main points. First, the

611
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 1: only thing tying Quincy to Jessica's death in any physical

612
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 1: manner is a belt. Yet there's no evidence it's Quincy's.

613
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:32,279
Speaker 1: It was an extremely common two thousands belts. Even a

614
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 1: witness at trial is wearing a similar belt and he

615
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 1: points to it.

616
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 4: Yes, certain sluck his rider.

617
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:44,840
Speaker 1: Second, if there's no certainty Jessica was strangled, then the

618
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:50,800
Speaker 1: jury cannot convict Quincy on the prosecution's theory of the case. Third,

619
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:55,320
Speaker 1: according to Victoria and Venetia, Jessica was killed early Sunday

620
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 1: morning and they put her body in Jeff's garage before

621
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 1: driving her to the metal school and lighting her on

622
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 1: fire Monday night. By the prosecution's own timeline, Quincy was

623
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:11,760
Speaker 1: in jail by the time they disposed and burned Jessica's body.

624
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 1: He'd been arrested that Sunday morning on drug charges and

625
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 1: stayed in jail for over a year. So their entire

626
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 1: theory that Quincy's smelling like gas linked him to Jessica

627
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 1: makes no sense. In this timeline, him smelling like gas

628
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 1: is meaningless. And fourth, law enforcement coerced witnesses into lying

629
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 1: on Quincy. To prove that point. They called Rosie Christ's,

630
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:52,240
Speaker 1: Victoria's sister, and the prosecution's witness back on the stand

631
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 1: was correct. The defense knew something important about Rosie that

632
00:40:58,320 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 1: they wanted the jury to know.

633
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 3: I was trying to tell them that I didn't have

634
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:05,439
Speaker 3: nothing to do and I didn't know nothing about this

635
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 3: case or nothing like that.

636
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:10,879
Speaker 1: They told me I was lying before trial, Rosie says,

637
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 1: she tried to recant to law enforcement, and you.

638
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 4: Kept trying to tell them the truth, and they wouldn't

639
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 4: have said it.

640
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 1: Yes, she testifies that they made her a lie, implicating

641
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:24,320
Speaker 1: Jeff Burton, her own cousin, Tamra Caldwell, and Quincy Cross.

642
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 17: Quincy cross every threatened you no.

643
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 4: A goodreat, Victorian, did you know? No? That's all I had.

644
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:40,839
Speaker 1: When Prosecutor Scott Sutherland counters, Rosie is defiant.

645
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 4: Oh miss christ.

646
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 3: Today, I really don't care about going to jail, Scott,

647
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 3: So you can ask me what you wanted to up Jack,

648
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 3: Let me approach you.

649
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 1: Rosie shifts in her chair, shakes her head and scrunches

650
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 1: her face in anger, but she stands her ground.

651
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 4: So I'm gonna ask you again. Are you lying today?

652
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 4: Are you lying the other day about the other day? Now?

653
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 2: I'm not lying today.

654
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 3: And I wanted to touch you all the time.

655
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 1: You guys have to stop me. But in such a

656
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 1: long trial, with so many facts and discrepancies, it becomes

657
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 1: nearly impossible to follow what is going on, especially with

658
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 1: so many objections, redirects and sidebars.

659
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:31,880
Speaker 2: Objection, objection, objection, objection, objection.

660
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 1: With so much confusion, the prosecution new to always direct

661
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:42,799
Speaker 1: the attention back to the belt, a.

662
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 3: Distinctive belt, not a unique belt by any means.

663
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 1: And the gas medlie strongly and Gaslene, don't look at

664
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:56,399
Speaker 1: the distractions, the different stories, the half truths, the recantation.

665
00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:00,439
Speaker 1: Look here, look at the guy who was talking about

666
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:11,920
Speaker 1: finding girls, waving his belt around, smelling like gas. And so,

667
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:16,840
Speaker 1: after deliberating for only three hours and forty five minutes,

668
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 1: eleven white jurors and one black juror found beyond a

669
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:26,239
Speaker 1: reasonable doubt that Quincy Cross murdered Jessica currn.

670
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 14: Well.

671
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:39,279
Speaker 5: I cried, man, I cried with my dad. They let

672
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 5: my dad in in a room in the back, and

673
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:45,800
Speaker 5: I cried with my dad.

674
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 1: At Quincy's sentencing, Assistant prosecutor Scott Sutherland asked the jury

675
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:56,359
Speaker 1: to show Quincy no mercy. He said, I would ask

676
00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 1: you to look at this heinous crime and ask yourselves,

677
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:04,799
Speaker 1: if not now, then when. If not Quincy Cross, then

678
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 1: who He deserves nothing less than the ultimate punishment, in

679
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:12,240
Speaker 1: this case, a sentence of death.

680
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:15,600
Speaker 2: I don't believe in the death penalty, but.

681
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 1: That's not what Joe Kurrn, Jessica's father, wanted.

682
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 2: I don't feel like a person should die killing another

683
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 2: person because another person died, don't bring back the person

684
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 2: that died. If I killed somebody else and that brang

685
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 2: my daughter back, I killed the first person I see

686
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 2: because I want her back that bad. But he's not

687
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:35,879
Speaker 2: going to bring her back.

688
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:41,880
Speaker 1: Ultimately, Quincy was sentenced to life in prison without parole.

689
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:46,879
Speaker 1: Quincy says before trial, prosecutors offered him a deal of

690
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 1: twenty five years. What did they want you to say?

691
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 5: A low Camra and Jeffrey. I didn't even ask him

692
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 5: what they wanted me to say, none of that. So

693
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 5: we didn't even get that far because I ain't that

694
00:44:58,200 --> 00:44:58,880
Speaker 5: type of person.

695
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:03,360
Speaker 1: And after trial, Quincy's attorney asked him if you wanted

696
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 1: to see if the deal was still good, but he

697
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 1: said no. So you were like, I will take a

698
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 1: life sentence. I'm not gonna lie about these people.

699
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 5: Right, You're exactly right, I will, and that's what I did.

700
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:23,760
Speaker 1: Tamra and jeff were set to go to trial after Quincy,

701
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 1: and they were scared.

702
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 4: You know.

703
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 16: At first I was gung hole, like, yeah, you know,

704
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 16: let's stay lying on me all this stuff. I'm ready

705
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 16: to face whatever. And then after that I just broke

706
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:37,239
Speaker 16: my spirit. I'm like, oh my god, they're gonna do

707
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 16: the same thing to me. I ain't never gonna get

708
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:40,319
Speaker 16: out of here. And if my kids ain't all this

709
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 16: different shit, you know what I mean. So now I'm

710
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 16: like starting a question. Man, even though you didn't say

711
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 16: you are going to prison. They don't fucking matter. So

712
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 16: they kind of broke my spirit a lot, Like it

713
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 16: really took a lot out of me.

714
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 1: Jeff and Tamra decided to take plea deals to avoid

715
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 1: a life sentence and possibly the death penalty. Jeff was

716
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 1: sentenced to fifteen years and Tamera ten. Victoria and Venetia

717
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 1: pled guilty. Victoria was sentenced to a total of five

718
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 1: years and Venetia seven. They only served a few months.

719
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 1: After years of fighting, Jessica Kerrn's family finally saw her

720
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 1: accused killers punished, but instead of feeling a sense of relief,

721
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:34,920
Speaker 1: Joe Kurran felt uneasy.

722
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:38,839
Speaker 2: I felt in my gut that something wasn't right.

723
00:46:40,760 --> 00:47:10,799
Speaker 1: That's because something wasn't that's after the break. Do you

724
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:14,279
Speaker 1: ever have moments where you forget that this is part

725
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:14,880
Speaker 1: of your life?

726
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:17,760
Speaker 10: No, mailwell, mailwell.

727
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:22,400
Speaker 1: After the trial and conviction, Quincy's family was left to

728
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:24,320
Speaker 1: reckon with their own loss.

729
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:27,359
Speaker 14: It's just like toting them two thousand pound weight on

730
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:31,719
Speaker 14: your back every day. No, never forget it, never.

731
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 9: Off my mind.

732
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:37,280
Speaker 1: On any given date, you can find Quincy's dad sitting

733
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:40,799
Speaker 1: on his porch. Hosted. Behind where he sits is a

734
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 1: sign that reads private property owner is too old to fight,

735
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:49,880
Speaker 1: too fat to run, too lazy to argue. The image

736
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 1: is of two handguns. David Cross isn't fat or lazy,

737
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:58,880
Speaker 1: though old is fair. He's in his early seventies now,

738
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 1: but his hair, styled in a flat top, is still

739
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:07,760
Speaker 1: perfectly jet black. David grew up here right on Cross Street,

740
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 1: forty minutes outside of Mayfield, just over the border, in

741
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:13,440
Speaker 1: a small town in Tennessee.

742
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 14: My grandparents just lived down there at the end.

743
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:20,879
Speaker 1: Of the street, David says. Cross Street is named after

744
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 1: his family. They've been here for generations.

745
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 2: That was our school house right around the corner.

746
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:31,439
Speaker 1: He points to an abandoned cottage down the little dirt road.

747
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 10: This was it.

748
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:37,400
Speaker 14: See, he was segregation back then, you know. This was

749
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:38,360
Speaker 14: the black school.

750
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 2: This is where I went to school for eight years.

751
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:49,040
Speaker 1: David raised his kids here. Quincy grew up roaming the fields,

752
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 1: playing with tadpoles and snapping turtles. David Cross's boy, who

753
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 1: he hasn't seen since before the pandemic. Quincy's in prison

754
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:02,359
Speaker 1: four hundred and fifty miles away on the other side

755
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:07,360
Speaker 1: of Kentucky bordering Virginia. So getting there is difficult.

756
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:11,799
Speaker 14: You can't imagine, you know, you just want to break

757
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 14: down and cry, but it would.

758
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:14,240
Speaker 6: Do no good.

759
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:23,400
Speaker 1: Instead, like Joe Curran, David Cross decided to fight. He's

760
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:27,799
Speaker 1: spent thousands of dollars defending Quincy. He's hired lawyers and

761
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 1: private investigators to try and prove his son is innocent.

762
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:36,800
Speaker 1: Darro Woman, my trusted source, is one of the people

763
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:40,879
Speaker 1: David worked with to help clear Quincy's name. When Dara

764
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 1: found Quincy's case, it came with his whole family, with

765
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:47,880
Speaker 1: loved ones who stood by him through the years, which

766
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:50,359
Speaker 1: I can tell you from my experience in this line

767
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:55,600
Speaker 1: of work, it's actually rare. Incarcerated people are usually forgotten,

768
00:49:56,239 --> 00:49:59,440
Speaker 1: but instead Quincy has gained new family.

769
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:04,840
Speaker 14: She's really something special. I gotta say that, she's really

770
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 14: something special.

771
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:10,520
Speaker 18: For over three years now, we've spoken literally almost.

772
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 1: Every day, I will say every day, but she's persist.

773
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 2: I got a question we ask out.

774
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:24,759
Speaker 1: If you're noticing it sounds like there's an audience, it's

775
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 1: because there is. On one of these visits, I didn't

776
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:32,160
Speaker 1: just meet with David alone on my first trip. He

777
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:36,920
Speaker 1: brought the whole gang, his wife, Mary, Quincy's biological mom,

778
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:40,319
Speaker 1: Quincy's sister. I think an aunt and a cousin were

779
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:44,000
Speaker 1: there too. There were also at least two private investigators

780
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 1: and Dara on the floor sitting cross leg filming like

781
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:56,879
Speaker 1: a proud mom. And there was another person there. All right,

782
00:50:57,040 --> 00:50:59,840
Speaker 1: So Joe, we're going to be over here joke.

783
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 2: I like to think we got the right person because

784
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:05,840
Speaker 2: he's been in a lot of time in prison, but

785
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:08,400
Speaker 2: evidence don't show he's the right person.

786
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 14: Mister Karen, I knew he knew something was wrong, him

787
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:14,720
Speaker 14: and his family knew something was wrong.

788
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:20,440
Speaker 1: After trial, Joe Kurran should have felt like a weight

789
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:25,319
Speaker 1: was lifted off his shoulders his daughter's murderer convicted, But

790
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 1: the nagging feeling wouldn't leave him.

791
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 2: Then when you start looking to the case, Quincy's from

792
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:34,799
Speaker 2: another town, he didn't know my daughter. You got to

793
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:38,840
Speaker 2: have a motive, You got to have an opportunity, you

794
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:42,880
Speaker 2: got to have I like his five things or the

795
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:46,360
Speaker 2: case is not a case. Well, I just couldn't figure

796
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:49,239
Speaker 2: out five things on him that would make him from

797
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:52,399
Speaker 2: another town, hadn't been involved with her, didn't know her,

798
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:54,640
Speaker 2: but he's supposed to come up here and killed her.

799
00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:58,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, so early on you were like this doesn't make sense.

800
00:51:58,560 --> 00:51:59,319
Speaker 2: It didn't make sense.

801
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:07,040
Speaker 1: A few years after the conviction, David hired a private

802
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:10,720
Speaker 1: investigator and had him reach out to Joe. He wanted

803
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:13,880
Speaker 1: the investigator to show Joe some of the concerns he

804
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:17,200
Speaker 1: had about his son killing Joe's daughter.

805
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:21,800
Speaker 14: So when we started sharing information and really looking at

806
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 14: what the evidence really was, then I think we started talking.

807
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 1: You know, they would get together and go over everything,

808
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:34,400
Speaker 1: would you say, your friends?

809
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:38,239
Speaker 14: Yes, And a lot of people think that me and

810
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:45,760
Speaker 14: mister Karen are an odd couple. But here's the way

811
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:50,480
Speaker 14: I see it. Here's my definition of it. Me and

812
00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:56,560
Speaker 14: mister Karen want the same thing. Mister Karen won't justice

813
00:52:57,239 --> 00:53:02,120
Speaker 14: for his daughter Jessica, and I want justice for my son,

814
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:03,360
Speaker 14: Quincy Cross.

815
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:06,400
Speaker 2: If Quincy Cross didn't do this, he's the last person

816
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:08,840
Speaker 2: I want in there. And I don't want the others

817
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 2: to have went through what they went through if they innocent.

818
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:16,759
Speaker 2: So if he didn't do it, who did.

819
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:22,280
Speaker 1: Over the years, Joe, David and their team of pis

820
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:27,319
Speaker 1: including Dara, went back to the beginning, to the original investigation,

821
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:31,480
Speaker 1: and they think they pinpointed where things derailed.

822
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:35,160
Speaker 14: I'm sure you done read a whole lot about Susan Gallbert,

823
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:41,239
Speaker 14: oh lady with a big mouth that spewed nothing but lie.

824
00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:47,960
Speaker 1: They discovered Susan wasn't just a busy body housewife looking

825
00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:51,160
Speaker 1: for something to do. I told you that in the

826
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:56,040
Speaker 1: immediate aftermath of Jessica's death, Victoria came forward with a

827
00:53:56,160 --> 00:54:00,200
Speaker 1: story different than the one she told at trial. But

828
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 1: it wasn't just a different version of the trial story.

829
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:12,480
Speaker 1: She actually implicated two completely different people. I've been told

830
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:15,239
Speaker 1: that the answers in this case are somewhere in the

831
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:19,439
Speaker 1: beginning in the first cops to look into Jessica's death

832
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:24,239
Speaker 1: and the very first people arrested for this crime. But

833
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 1: the investigation into those people ended when Susan Goalbreath homed

834
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 1: in on Quincy Cross.

835
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:33,680
Speaker 14: She just kept writing scenarios till they thought it fit

836
00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:38,080
Speaker 14: the scenario how this thing played.

837
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:42,320
Speaker 1: Out, and the KBI and prosecution ran with her stories.

838
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:46,160
Speaker 18: What bothers me is it comes back to the fact

839
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:52,799
Speaker 18: that the police, the Commonwealth, the state of Kentucky, they

840
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:56,719
Speaker 18: let her have all of this power. As far as

841
00:54:56,719 --> 00:54:59,759
Speaker 18: I'm concerned, Susan galv Thank got a goddamn thing to

842
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:03,759
Speaker 18: do with fucking shit with this case, other than being

843
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:11,000
Speaker 18: a roadblock for there to be actual justice.

844
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:14,200
Speaker 1: Susan Golbreeth also knew there were two people arrested in

845
00:55:14,239 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 1: the initial Mayfield Police investigation, and one of those people

846
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 1: she had close ties to. That's next time. Graves County

847
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:46,279
Speaker 1: is a production of Lava for Good in association with

848
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:49,960
Speaker 1: Signal Company Number One. This show is written and produced

849
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:54,800
Speaker 1: by me Maggie Freeling and senior producer Rebecca Ibarra. Jason Flamm,

850
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 1: Jeff Kempler, and Kevin Burtis are executive producers. Our editor

851
00:55:59,239 --> 00:56:03,640
Speaker 1: is Martina Abraham's Ilunga. Dania Suleiman is our fact checker.

852
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:08,360
Speaker 1: Sound design and mixing by Joe Plored. Music created by Wrench.

853
00:56:08,560 --> 00:56:11,759
Speaker 1: Our theme song is the Gangstagrass version of The One

854
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:15,200
Speaker 1: Who's Holding the Star by Leo Schofield and Kevin Herrick.

855
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:19,319
Speaker 1: Darrel Wolman is investigative producer. Our head of Marketing and

856
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:23,960
Speaker 1: Operations is Jeff Cliburn. Ismani Guarderama is our social media director,

857
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:27,720
Speaker 1: and our social Media manager is Sarah Gibbons. Andrew Nelson

858
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:31,320
Speaker 1: is art director, with additional production help from Jackie Pauley,

859
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:35,319
Speaker 1: Kara Kornhaber, and Kathleen Fink. Be sure to follow us

860
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:39,040
Speaker 1: on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and threads at Lava for Good

861
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:42,960
Speaker 1: and follow me at Maggie Freeling. And we know there's

862
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:44,920
Speaker 1: a lot of names for you to keep up with

863
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:48,360
Speaker 1: in this series, so for a detailed list of characters,

864
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:50,200
Speaker 1: please go to our show notes.

865
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:00,200
Speaker 4: Ye