1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 1: Why does it have to get dark? Why won't the 2 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: day always stay? Let's say good bye to the night time, 3 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: good bye, Let's send the dark time away. Some day, oh, 4 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:34,159 Speaker 1: some day I'll know what to say. Some day, oh, 5 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:49,240 Speaker 1: some day I'll not have to say? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Wonder? 6 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: Why why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why why why 7 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 1: why why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Do you 8 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: ask a lot of why questions? I know I always 9 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:21,319 Speaker 1: did when I was a little I still do. Mm hmm. 10 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: Bad stuff happens, and for a lot of us, our 11 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: first response is why why is this happening to me? 12 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:37,679 Speaker 1: Fred Rogers sang songs like this one to show kids 13 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: it's okay to ask the question, But in his own 14 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:45,400 Speaker 1: life and in a show, he turned why into how 15 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: how to respond? How to make someone else's life better? 16 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: How to be good in a world filled with bad? 17 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: I'm Carvil Wallace and This is Finding Fred, a podcast 18 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 1: about Fred Rogers from I Heart Media and Fatherly in 19 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 1: partnership with Transmitter Media. Last episode, we talked about the 20 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: famous scene in Mr Rogers Neighborhood in which Fred washes 21 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 1: Francois Clement's feet. It was politically charged a white man 22 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 1: sharing a swimming pool with a black man, But the 23 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: scene was also a blatant recreation of a Bible story 24 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:34,079 Speaker 1: from the Gospel of John. In this story, Jesus washes 25 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 1: the feet of his followers, the people who are supposedly 26 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: less powerful, less important than himself. The moral is that 27 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: great leaders are first and foremost great servants, that we 28 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: can and maybe should, serve one another. But for all 29 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 1: the biblically evocative nature of the footpath scene, which most 30 00:02:56,200 --> 00:03:05,239 Speaker 1: striking is what Fred Rogers doesn't say. God Fred was 31 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: an ordained Presbyterian minister, though you wouldn't even know it 32 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:12,359 Speaker 1: from watching his program, This scene with Officer Clement is 33 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:14,920 Speaker 1: about as close as he ever came to telling a 34 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 1: Bible story in the neighborhood. Here's a question, when I 35 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 1: say the word religion, what is your response, comfort? Or 36 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 1: does your guard go up for me? I don't have 37 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 1: much of a reaction to it at all. It was 38 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: not forced on me in any uncomfortable way. The Bible 39 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 1: camps and churches I went to were, in my mind, 40 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: sometimes boring, sometimes interesting, but largely inconsequential. Although I was 41 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: deathly afraid of Satan, and the Book of Revelations and 42 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: the Second Coming. And when I thought about these things 43 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: as a kid, my mouth would go dry and my 44 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: stomach would feel like it was filled with hot lead, 45 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 1: and that would lay awake in bed, just terrified. So 46 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: maybe it was a big deal. What about you? Where 47 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 1: does your response to religion live in your heart, in 48 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 1: your brain, in the pit of your stomach. What do 49 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:25,159 Speaker 1: you think religion is for? Oh boy, that's that's a 50 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 1: bit of a loaded question, especially in in the world 51 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 1: we live in today. Lisa Dormeyer was an intern on Mr. 52 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 1: Rogers neighborhood. She later attended seminary and was a chaplain 53 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 1: of the Children's Hospital. Today she helps run a senior 54 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 1: care facility just outside of Pittsburgh, not far from where 55 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: Fred Rogers grew up. Here in western Pennsylvania, we have 56 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:49,279 Speaker 1: a lot of Scottish and German influence, and that's my ancestry, 57 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 1: which is not very affectionate or even affirming. This was 58 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 1: the same background Fred Rogers came from. People men especially, 59 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:03,679 Speaker 1: were stern, stolid, maybe even a little cold. And these 60 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 1: sturdy old Scottish immigrants were Presbyterians. It's a Protestant Christian 61 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: tradition that is older than the founding of this country. 62 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:15,720 Speaker 1: In fact, there were so many Presbyterians involved in writing 63 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: the Declaration of Independence and early governance that a lot 64 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 1: of our United States government structures are similar to the 65 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: Presbyterian tradition of election and general assembly bodies that come 66 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: together as as a voice. We don't have bishops, we 67 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 1: don't have a pope. Um. Our elected leadership changes on 68 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 1: a regular basis um. So that's kind of our structure. Theologically, 69 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:43,600 Speaker 1: we're Calvinists, and so we believe that we are unable 70 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:47,040 Speaker 1: to save ourselves. We are fully reliant on the grace 71 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 1: of God to save us, and that to me has 72 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: always been that's the gift of being a Presbyterian, is 73 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 1: that belief that in our brokenness, God enters the world 74 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: to love and claim us as we are. We're broken 75 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 1: already and God loves us just the way we are. 76 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: My mother and dad were both on boards of our church. 77 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: I remember early on being very very taken with the 78 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: kinds of things that the ministers were talking about. Fred 79 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 1: sat for a four and a half hour retrospective interview, 80 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 1: and rather than talk explicitly about his beliefs, he talked 81 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: about the ways in which growing up he saw faith 82 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: tangibly at work in the world, like his industrialist father's 83 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 1: philanthropy and his mother's service work. I think she had 84 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 1: something like twenty five thousand volunteer hours at the hospital. 85 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: She loved being a narciss aid, and during the Second 86 00:06:55,640 --> 00:07:01,920 Speaker 1: World War she was in charge of banking surgical dressings 87 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: for the troops. And I remember as a little boy 88 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: going down and seeing the people folding these gauze squares, 89 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 1: you know, and then they would ship them off. I mean, 90 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: what better metaphor for binding up the brokenness of the 91 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: world than literally making gauze bandages. M Fred Rogers grew 92 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 1: up in La Trobe, Pennsylvania, a small but active industrial 93 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: town just outside of Pittsburgh, and it's heyday there were 94 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 1: trolley cars billowing smokestacks. It's where the banana split was invented. 95 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 1: But Fred grew up in the middle of the Great Depression. 96 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 1: The Tropes population was mostly blue collar people working in factories, 97 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 1: and pretty much everyone was struggling to make ends meet. 98 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: Pretty much everyone except the Rogers family. They came from 99 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: old banking and industry money. Both of his parents were 100 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: extraordinarily giving helped all hundreds and hundreds of people and 101 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 1: families in Latrobe. They gave away a lot of their 102 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: money to to other people who needed it. Maxwell King 103 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 1: is Fred's biographer. The message he got from watching his 104 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 1: parents was caring and being neighborly and being concerned and 105 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: being considerate. They had a lot of privilege, and I 106 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 1: think that that may be one of the reasons that 107 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 1: Fred felt like an outlier. He was very shy as 108 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 1: a little boy. He was introverted, he was lonely. The 109 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: family had a limousine drive him to elementary school every day. 110 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:45,959 Speaker 1: Can you imagine that? Can you imagine you might just 111 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: get teased a little bit about that. Some kids weren't 112 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 1: allowed to come over to Fred's house because their parents 113 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 1: worried their clothes weren't nice enough. Fred was lonely, a quiet, 114 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: chubby kid who suffered from childhood asthma. He was self conscious, 115 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: and he was insecure. Kids at school called him Fat Freddy. 116 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 1: One day, his chauffeur didn't show up to drive him 117 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 1: home from school, kids chased him down the street, you know, 118 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:17,439 Speaker 1: shouting out, We're gonna get you, Fat Freddy. And he 119 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: was very traumatized by the experience, and he and he 120 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:24,839 Speaker 1: got home and he told his parents and grandparents about it, 121 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:27,679 Speaker 1: and they said to him, oh, Fred, if you just 122 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 1: pretend you don't care, just pretend it doesn't matter to 123 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 1: you that you don't care, then they'll leave you alone. 124 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 1: And Fred went up to his room. This is a 125 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 1: little boy of about ten or eleven, and sat in 126 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 1: his room and said to himself, I do care. The 127 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 1: stoic white people who settled in northern Appolachia, they probably 128 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 1: wouldn't have survived without advice, like, just pretend you don't care. 129 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 1: But the problem him, for young Fred was that even 130 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 1: though he was from these people, he was not quite 131 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: of them. He was, for some reason, made of something different. 132 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: He had to find ways to work through his sensitivity 133 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: and loneliness. So he created puppets to play with in 134 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 1: his room, and he used them to work through all 135 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: the feelings he wasn't supposed to have. And in a 136 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: sense he did pretend not to have those feelings. He 137 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: gave them to his puppets. I think every one of 138 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 1: them has a facet of me, Lady Elaine, certainly the 139 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: mischief maker, the fund maker, exdals, the adolescent, all love 140 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 1: flying around this place. I've been looking for you all anyway. 141 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: It's a lot easier even as an adult for me 142 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 1: to have Daniel say I'm really scared. Do you think 143 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: maybe you could keep me a huck? You know? But 144 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 1: that would be hard for me to say, I'm really scared, 145 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: do you think you can give me? When we're teens 146 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: and our social lives become so much more important, we 147 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 1: need more than make believe in puppets to make life 148 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: feel manageable. Even fred did. I was very, very shy 149 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 1: when I was in grade school, and when I got 150 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:30,319 Speaker 1: to high school, I was scared to death to go. 151 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 1: But just so happened that in our class there was 152 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 1: this big man on campus by the name of Jim 153 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: Stumball who was on every team, and he got hurt 154 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:51,680 Speaker 1: at a football practice and I was told to take 155 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 1: his homework to him to the hospital. Over time, a 156 00:11:55,559 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 1: relationship began to develop between shy, quiet Freddie and Jim, 157 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 1: the big man on campus. We started to talk and 158 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: I could see what substance there was in this jock, 159 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: you know, And evidently he could see what substance there 160 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 1: was in this shy kid. So when he got out 161 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 1: of the hospital, and went back to the school. He 162 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 1: said to people, you know that that Roger's kids. Okay. 163 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 1: That made all the difference in the world for me, 164 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:43,319 Speaker 1: just somebody saying to the others that Roger's kids okay. 165 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:47,559 Speaker 1: It was after that that I started writing for the newspaper, 166 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 1: got to be president of the student council. What a 167 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 1: difference one person can make in the life of another. 168 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 1: H It's almost as if he said, I like you 169 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 1: just the way you are. Did you ever have an 170 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: experience like this where the kindness of just one person 171 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:21,559 Speaker 1: changed the course of your life. Being accepted and welcomed 172 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: by this jock healed something inside Fred Rogers, and Fred 173 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 1: would eventually use his television program to demonstrate what he 174 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:35,440 Speaker 1: understood to be a religious idea. We are broken and 175 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 1: we're not really capable of fixing ourselves. But there is 176 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 1: this God of love that transcends the brokenness and enters 177 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 1: into our lives and our world to love us as 178 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 1: we are, and often that love shows up through other people. Again, 179 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: Mr Rogers Neighborhood was not a religious show, but Lisa 180 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 1: dor Meyer says it was a vehicle for the love 181 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: of a god that Fred Rogers deeply believed in. I 182 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 1: think a lot of people just didn't take the time 183 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: to listen to what he was really saying. They thought 184 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: that he was very simplistic and really didn't have depth 185 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 1: to that message. But when you listened, when you read, 186 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 1: there was an incredible depth and call to action in 187 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: his interactions on the show. In Mr Rogers, fish Died. 188 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: Take a look at the aquarium. Do you see a 189 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 1: dead fish? You might remember he had a whole tank 190 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 1: of them, and one of the tiny, guppy sized ones 191 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: sank to the stones at the bottom and stayed there. 192 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 1: Fred scoops it out and stares hard into the camera 193 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: as we better bury it. M He solemnly wraps the 194 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: fish in a yellow cloth and the place back here 195 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 1: in the yard. The whole sequence of discovering the dead fish, 196 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: trying to revive the fish, and then burying the fish 197 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: runs longer than five minutes, during which Fred doesn't speak 198 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 1: more than ten sentences I counted. The rest is silence. 199 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: And finally, after all this ceremony, Mr Rogers just tells 200 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 1: us a story. When I was very young, I had 201 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 1: a dog that I loved very much. Her name was Mitzi. 202 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. When she got to be old and she died. 203 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 1: I was very sad when she died, because she and 204 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 1: I were good pals. Mm hmmm. And when she died, 205 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 1: I cried. My grandmother heard me crying, I remember, and 206 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: she came and she just put her arm around me 207 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 1: because she knew I was sad. She knew how much 208 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 1: I loved that dog. And my dad said we'd we'd 209 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: have to bury Metsy. And I didn't want to. I 210 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: didn't want to bury her because I thought I'd just 211 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 1: pretend that she was still alive. But my dad said 212 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: that her body was dead and we'd have to bury her, 213 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: so we did. By this time, Fred Rogers had used 214 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:11,399 Speaker 1: this program to talk quite frankly to four or five 215 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 1: and six year olds about assassination and racism and war, 216 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 1: and now he was doing a whole episode about death, 217 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 1: about mortality, and never once does he say a thing 218 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:34,359 Speaker 1: about God, just Mizzi and a song. Why Why? Why? Why? 219 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:40,479 Speaker 1: Wonder why? He shows that it's okay and important to 220 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:47,119 Speaker 1: ask a big, unanswerable question and to keep asking it. Why. 221 00:17:48,359 --> 00:18:14,679 Speaker 1: We'll be right back Why why Fred Rogers? Uh. We 222 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:18,359 Speaker 1: live in his neighborhood. In my office was right across 223 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 1: the street, from w q e D, the public television 224 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:26,880 Speaker 1: radio station from which Mr. Rogers was broadcast. My name 225 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:32,399 Speaker 1: is Aaron Bisno, Rabbi at Rhodef Shalem Congregation, which is 226 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 1: the largest Jewish congregation in Pittsburgh. And you have a 227 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:40,160 Speaker 1: you have a picture of Fred Rogers in your office? 228 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:46,399 Speaker 1: Is I do I do? Why? Um? Well? He is 229 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 1: the full picture from the magazine quotas What if Heaven 230 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:54,239 Speaker 1: is the relationships we make here, and that rather than 231 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: waiting for a world that we might one day inherit 232 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 1: or merit, we have an opportunity in a few number 233 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: of years, while we're with each other, to make of 234 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 1: this world the world of which we speak and dream. 235 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: Fred's own spiritual activity was rooted deeply in his Presbyterian faith, 236 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,400 Speaker 1: but he understood that not everyone finds God or religion 237 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 1: to be a source of solace or sustenance. Even if 238 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: people believe in some kind of greater power, that faith 239 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily give them answers about what to do about 240 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 1: loneliness and fear hurt. Believing in God doesn't necessarily mean 241 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 1: feeling all of God's love. So the the Christian theologian C. S. 242 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:40,439 Speaker 1: Lewis in a very small monograph he wrote in the 243 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 1: year following his wife's death, called A Grief Observed. He 244 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:47,199 Speaker 1: is a line where he says, do not speak to 245 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: me of the comforts of religion, or I shall know 246 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 1: that you do not understand. We're hurting, right. And it's 247 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: not that we want your theology or your pronouncements about 248 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 1: how this is all part of God's plan or you're 249 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 1: in God's hand, but rather I need a hug, or 250 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 1: I need to be able to cry right now, or 251 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 1: I need to just be silent with you and not 252 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 1: have you demand anything of me. It's so interesting because 253 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 1: Fred wasn't an ordained minister who in a sense saw 254 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 1: his show as a kind of ministry, I would believe, 255 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 1: and the television was his pulpit. Yes, you know, it's like, 256 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 1: given all that, it strikes me as particularly meaningful that 257 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:30,679 Speaker 1: he uh did not very very rarely is, as far 258 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:34,159 Speaker 1: as I know, said the word God um in his work. 259 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 1: He's not there to edify you about religion. He's there 260 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: to do this other thing, which is this kind of 261 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 1: comfort and support, and he doesn't need to mention God 262 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: in order to do that. Uh. And in fact, maybefore 263 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 1: a lot of people mentioned God would would interfere with 264 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 1: his ability to do that, and so I think that 265 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:52,440 Speaker 1: that's right. And Fred Rogers lets everybody know that, Hey, 266 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 1: I like you just the way you are. You're good enough, 267 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: you're wonderful, right, You're exactly who you're supposed to be. 268 00:20:58,080 --> 00:20:59,639 Speaker 1: There's no one in the world just like you, and 269 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 1: the world will be a poorer place in your absence. Um, 270 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 1: that's a really beautiful message. And we don't need to 271 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 1: uh to muck it up, or to confuse it, or 272 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 1: to uh uh divide ourselves one from another by overlaying 273 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:18,119 Speaker 1: it with words like like God. Fed Rogers saw the 274 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: opportunity to use television as a means of reaching a 275 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 1: pulpit from which to reach, not preach, quite more to 276 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,239 Speaker 1: pastor right more, to be there as as one who 277 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 1: comforts reassures. What's that distinction between preach and pastor? As 278 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: you just made it well. So often in in um 279 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:40,200 Speaker 1: describing clergy work, UM people speak of of being a preacher, 280 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:44,159 Speaker 1: a pastor, or a priest. And so preaching is what 281 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 1: you do on a pulpit or teaching or in a 282 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,439 Speaker 1: classroom kind of thing, right, and pastoring is holding someone's 283 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 1: hand and being with them. Fred Rogers chose to understand 284 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 1: the medium and what incredible insight to do so to 285 00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: comfort and to reassure, and to serve as a guide 286 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: and a friend who's gonna walk with you through this divorce, 287 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:07,119 Speaker 1: through this death, through this experience you're having, through the 288 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 1: pains of growing up. Fred's program was his pulpit, not 289 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:19,680 Speaker 1: metaphorically literally. A few years after he started making children's 290 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: TV programming, Fred started attending classes at what is now 291 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:27,680 Speaker 1: known as Pittsburgh Theological Seminary on his lunch breaks. Eight 292 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:31,399 Speaker 1: years later, he was an ordained minister of the Presbyterian Church. 293 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,199 Speaker 1: He received an extremely unique assignment from the body that 294 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:40,159 Speaker 1: oversees ministry. Fred was tasked quote to minister to families 295 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:44,880 Speaker 1: through the mass media. But the thing is, if you're 296 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: ministering through mass media, especially public media, then you're not 297 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 1: just ministering to your congregation. You're not just reaching Presbyterians 298 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,639 Speaker 1: or Christians or even believers. Anyone can be on the 299 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: other side of that TV screen. Your congregation has to 300 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: include every kind of person that might be in the world, 301 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:11,199 Speaker 1: and that requires a very skillful pastor. You know, I 302 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:14,400 Speaker 1: my ex wife gave me a ride to the airport 303 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,399 Speaker 1: for this trip, and we were talking about this on 304 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 1: the way and she said, she said, what I remember 305 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 1: about Fred Rodgers is that's where I learned to use chopsticks. 306 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 1: And I said, oh really, She said yeah, and she 307 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 1: described it and she said, you know, it was really slow, 308 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:27,919 Speaker 1: and we just sat there together and he taught me 309 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 1: how to use chopsticks. And I thought that was such 310 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: an interesting phrasing that she said we just sat there together, 311 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: because she was clearly watching TV, and yet even through 312 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:42,119 Speaker 1: this medium of separation, she felt that Fred Rogers was 313 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:45,679 Speaker 1: sitting with her showing her how to use chopsticks. And 314 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: that's what he referred to Carril as holy ground, the 315 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: space between Fred in the studio and all the millions 316 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,920 Speaker 1: of people children, youth and adults watching the neighborhood on television. 317 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 1: George Worth is a Presbyterian minister and was a close 318 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 1: friend of Fred's for twenty years. He told me that 319 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: Fred's communication with kids through the television was sacred, an 320 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:15,359 Speaker 1: almost inexplicable communion. Something happened across that space that he 321 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:21,360 Speaker 1: believed was deeply spiritual and mystical um and so he 322 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 1: he really thought about himself sitting there with just one person, 323 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 1: even though there were millions of people watching. He thought 324 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 1: about being with one person at a time. They called 325 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 1: it Fred time it was on the program. Things would 326 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 1: slow down as the program would begin, He'd take his 327 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 1: sneakers off, he'd put on his sweater. He slowed the 328 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:46,119 Speaker 1: pace down, and that gave him the opportunity not only 329 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: to see other people, but to be able to express 330 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 1: his love and care for other people and reach out 331 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 1: and touch our hearts as well. This was no TV gimmick. 332 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,920 Speaker 1: It was some sort of technique of attention kindness that 333 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 1: Fred developed that he was able to communicate through the 334 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:08,440 Speaker 1: cameras and air waves and TV sets, But he communicated 335 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:13,040 Speaker 1: that attention and kindness in person too. What was true 336 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 1: about fed Rogers is he was he was tuned in 337 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 1: at a deeper level than most people. Uh. Fred could 338 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:24,960 Speaker 1: see with his eyes. He was very observant of what 339 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,880 Speaker 1: was happening around him, especially of the people with whom 340 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,439 Speaker 1: he was talking at whatever they were doing. But he 341 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 1: also could see with his heart. Um. He had um 342 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: an open heart to people. You know, this is particularly 343 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 1: timely for me because I have a sixteen year old 344 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 1: son and he and I are embroiled in a long term, 345 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 1: friendly but philosophical argument about religion. And my son has 346 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,400 Speaker 1: now reached the point where he's he's really he really 347 00:25:55,520 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: enjoys the what he thinks is the intellectual rigor of atheism. 348 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:04,159 Speaker 1: And uh, he likes to point out that that the 349 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 1: people of religion have been responsible for so many terrible things, 350 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 1: and that there's so much hypocrisy, and and I absolutely 351 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 1: understand where it's coming from. And it is true that 352 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,439 Speaker 1: you can look at a lot of Christians and Christianity 353 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:22,159 Speaker 1: and see a lot of problems and a lot of 354 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,880 Speaker 1: violence against people and a lot of hatred. Even though 355 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 1: I'm forty four, that still feels like a little child 356 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:32,119 Speaker 1: who's just learning that people can be bad. And I 357 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 1: feel shocked by that. And I think one of the 358 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 1: natural human responses is to go into fear, defensiveness, protection. 359 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 1: And I wonder what made Fred Rogers so good at 360 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 1: merging Christianity with love and and the expansion of rights 361 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 1: and with care for each human being. And how how 362 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 1: did you see Fred dealing with things that were things 363 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:06,440 Speaker 1: in the world that we're really bad murders, assassinations, violence, uh, genocide. 364 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,920 Speaker 1: How did he face those things both in his personal 365 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:15,920 Speaker 1: life spiritually and also just in his public work. Yeah, 366 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,399 Speaker 1: I had a problem with a person in the church 367 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:23,959 Speaker 1: that I was serving who really was not only disagreeable, 368 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,119 Speaker 1: but was was eager to see me move on to 369 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 1: another place. He just didn't like me. And I was 370 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:33,439 Speaker 1: telling Fred about it over lunch one day and he 371 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: looked at me and he said, George, I wonder what 372 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:41,879 Speaker 1: happened to that man when he was a child that 373 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:47,399 Speaker 1: has caused him to be so angry and so um 374 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:52,200 Speaker 1: determined to hurt you. I wonder what ho what pain 375 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:57,200 Speaker 1: that man suffered when he was a child that blew 376 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:02,119 Speaker 1: me away? Um, that's one of the answer. And also 377 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:08,159 Speaker 1: he believed that ultimately God prevails and that God is good. 378 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:15,160 Speaker 1: God can cause no harm. God loves with an redeeming 379 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 1: love all of God's children on earth, and God is 380 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 1: sad and feels the pain when bad things happen. The 381 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 1: question why does God allow bad things to happen, of course, 382 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,720 Speaker 1: is the theological question that all of us ask. There's 383 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 1: no answer to that. Ultimately we just don't know. But 384 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 1: what we do know is when the bad things happen, 385 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 1: God comes alongside us. God is present to us not 386 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 1: only through our prayers to reading the Bible, but through 387 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: other people. And Fred believed in doing God's work in 388 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 1: the world, being with people through the difficulty, no matter 389 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 1: who those people were or what they believed. Fred's ministry, 390 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 1: the enormity and diversity of his TV congregation required that 391 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 1: he looked for and communicate the things that people hold 392 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 1: in common with one another, rather than the things that 393 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: differentiate or divide them via sect, or denomination or creed. 394 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 1: He was a very receptive person to other faith traditions 395 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 1: and very sensitive to people who came from no faith 396 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:30,479 Speaker 1: tradition at all. He was um, i would say, broad 397 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,719 Speaker 1: gaged in that respect, a Christian and eventually became, as 398 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 1: you know, a Presbyterian minister. But Fred went to school 399 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 1: on other religions, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, the other religions and 400 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 1: found the good in all of those faith traditions and 401 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 1: the people who adhered to them. And while Fred studied 402 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 1: other faiths, Lisa dor Meyer says that Fred also knew 403 00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 1: that institutional religion could be co opted for political or 404 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 1: social will gain. And sometimes you questioned how his own 405 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 1: Presbyterian church was responding to the larger culture. There was 406 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 1: tension there the Presbyterian Church back in the time that 407 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 1: he was in seminary, and are amazing alums that came 408 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,480 Speaker 1: through in the late fifties the early sixties. Those were 409 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: folks who went to Alabama to take part in the 410 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 1: Freedom Marches, and they drove the food trucks and were 411 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: so concerned about justice in the world, and and their 412 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 1: preaching was prophetic about changing the world. And then we 413 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: kind of shifted in the eighties and into the nineties 414 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 1: into a more evangelical bend, and it was much more 415 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: i would say, self reflective on personal relationship with Jesus 416 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 1: rather than kind of this world changing theology and philosophy. 417 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: And I think that that shift was difficult, not just 418 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 1: for Fred, but a lot of others from his generation. 419 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 1: For many years, the Presbyterian Church was not affirming of 420 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 1: all people, and Fred was very affirming of all people, 421 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 1: and so I think there was some discomfort there. Ask 422 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 1: yourself again, what you feel when you hear the word religion. Today, 423 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,640 Speaker 1: it's nearly impossible to hear that word and not think 424 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 1: of certain churches coming out in support of hurtful, harmful, 425 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 1: even violent people and causes, the pain inflicted in the 426 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 1: name of religion on gay people, or single mothers or 427 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 1: divorced couples, or the untold numbers of children who suffered 428 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 1: sexual abuse literally at the hands of a Christian church. 429 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 1: What happens when you're so convinced of the rightness of 430 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: your cause that human beings are less important than values, 431 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 1: or commitments or commandments. Seeing the harm that people in 432 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 1: the world have done in the name of faith, how 433 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 1: can you ever be certain about the moral goodness of 434 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 1: the things that you've been taught about your tradition. Fred 435 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:12,280 Speaker 1: grew up with his appellation Presbyterianism, where feelings were expected 436 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 1: to remain beneath the surface, but his own experience helped 437 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: him see that the things we feel as human beings 438 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 1: are our shared common ground. Our feelings are where we 439 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 1: can meet and understand one another. And Fred didn't waiver 440 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 1: from that. His constant goal was to manifest love in 441 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:41,239 Speaker 1: the world, and that, Lisa says, makes him exceptional. I 442 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 1: think that God sends saints to walk among us who 443 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:53,080 Speaker 1: are deeply spiritual people that somehow are able to I 444 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 1: think a lot of us have been given gifts by God, 445 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 1: and we we don't find within ourselves the ability to 446 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 1: use them. And I think that he, for reasons that 447 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,720 Speaker 1: I can't explain, was able to fully embrace the gifts 448 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 1: God gave him. Is this just out of reach for 449 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:14,080 Speaker 1: people like you and me? Fred didn't think so, and 450 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 1: that's why he made his program as a beacon, as 451 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,479 Speaker 1: a map, as a guide for how to treat one 452 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:25,480 Speaker 1: another with care and kindness. Really take the time to 453 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 1: see each other, to listen, to understand and to see 454 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,760 Speaker 1: ourselves in one another, and to accept the ways in 455 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 1: which we're different, but to extend kindness and understanding and 456 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 1: caring to everyone, regardless of what faith we do or 457 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 1: don't subscribe to. Fred Rogers believed that we could make 458 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 1: a better world here in this lifetime by accepting people, 459 00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 1: by helping people, even in their goodness. It's a challenge. 460 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,360 Speaker 1: I'm not suggesting that I or Fred Rodgers have the 461 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 1: ability all the time, any one of us to live 462 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 1: in this, but to aspire to it, to be imperatively 463 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:16,120 Speaker 1: implored to strive towards that. That's that's the life schal 464 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:24,560 Speaker 1: I think that Mr Rodgers was sharing with us next time, 465 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,400 Speaker 1: and you could hear the beat, beat beat of the 466 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,960 Speaker 1: heart monitor and the dripping of all the i vs, 467 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:36,760 Speaker 1: and in the background you hear there are many ways 468 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,359 Speaker 1: to say I Love you. Finding Fred is produced by 469 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,680 Speaker 1: Transmitter Media. The team is Dan O'donnald, Jordan Bailey, and 470 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:47,400 Speaker 1: Mattie Foley. Our editor is Sarah Nicks. The executive producer 471 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:51,320 Speaker 1: for Transmitter Media is Gretta Cone. Executive producers at Fatherly 472 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,439 Speaker 1: are Simon Isaacs and Andrew Berman. Thanks to the team 473 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 1: at I Heart Media. Special thanks this week to the 474 00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:00,320 Speaker 1: sixth Presbyterian Church in Pittsburgh and the Reverend Vincent Holbe, 475 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 1: Reverend John McCall, and the Reverend Bill Guy. Fred Rogers 476 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,920 Speaker 1: interview tape courtesy of the Television Academy Foundation and Interviews. 477 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:11,120 Speaker 1: The full interview is available at Television Academy dot com 478 00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:15,080 Speaker 1: slash Interviews. Our show is mixed by Rick Kwan, music 479 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:18,239 Speaker 1: by Blue Dot Sessions and Alison Layton Brown. If you 480 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 1: like what you're hearing, rate the show, review the show, 481 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:25,760 Speaker 1: and tell a friend I'm Carver Wallace. Thank you for listening.