1
00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:04,680
Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

2
00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

3
00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:11,119
Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know.

4
00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:13,920
Speaker 2: A production of iHeart Radio.

5
00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:28,760
Speaker 3: Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my

6
00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:29,440
Speaker 3: name is Noel.

7
00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:30,840
Speaker 2: They called me Ben.

8
00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:34,080
Speaker 4: We're joined as always with our super producer Dylan the

9
00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:38,520
Speaker 4: Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you argue you are here.

10
00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:42,000
Speaker 4: That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know.

11
00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:51,880
Speaker 4: Cacall marow well keyes click click click, and some sort

12
00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:56,040
Speaker 4: of tippish infrasound. We're back with the second chapter in

13
00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:59,000
Speaker 4: our series on human to animal communication.

14
00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:02,160
Speaker 5: Damn going to say conversion and that was all in.

15
00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:04,080
Speaker 5: No communication is super interesting too.

16
00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:07,000
Speaker 4: I like the chimera reference, that is the chimerath and

17
00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:11,000
Speaker 4: we already did that one this So I think it's

18
00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:16,120
Speaker 4: fair to save folks that our research here for this

19
00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:19,240
Speaker 4: series has inspired all of us to look at our

20
00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,920
Speaker 4: pets and non human friends a little bit differently. Matt

21
00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:26,720
Speaker 4: would love to throw to you, I think you what

22
00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:28,800
Speaker 4: were you telling our soft Are you met a deer?

23
00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:29,679
Speaker 2: Oh?

24
00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:32,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, I performed a recent experiment with a bit of

25
00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:37,160
Speaker 3: animal communication We've talked about trying to communicate with crows, ravens,

26
00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:40,559
Speaker 3: other birds like that. We've talked about attempting to talk

27
00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:43,040
Speaker 3: with our pets and stuff. But I was hanging out

28
00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,440
Speaker 3: at my grandparents' house in ye old coming as we

29
00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:47,680
Speaker 3: will all be excited about.

30
00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:50,400
Speaker 4: Never not hilarious, right, sorry, yep.

31
00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:52,720
Speaker 3: I look down in the backyard when I'm standing up

32
00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,560
Speaker 3: kind of on the in the carport area, and there

33
00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:58,960
Speaker 3: is a tiny little baby deer just laying down, staring

34
00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:02,440
Speaker 3: right at me with its ear out alerted and nervous

35
00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:03,080
Speaker 3: but still.

36
00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:06,640
Speaker 2: Your heart it melts immediately into your chest a bit.

37
00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:08,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure, there's a little bit of melting, but

38
00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,160
Speaker 3: mostly curiosity as to why it would just sit there

39
00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:14,520
Speaker 3: and stare at me and not move, not do anything.

40
00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:16,680
Speaker 3: It was just there so as.

41
00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:19,760
Speaker 2: Scared of you. Is it curious about you? Like what's

42
00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:20,960
Speaker 2: going on? Yeah?

43
00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:23,960
Speaker 3: So I started using my human voice and words to

44
00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:26,320
Speaker 3: talk to us. I said, hey, little what, hey, little baby,

45
00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:29,520
Speaker 3: what do you do? And it was just sitting there

46
00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:33,680
Speaker 3: staring at me still, And I got my girlfriend to

47
00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:35,280
Speaker 3: come out and it was still there. We were looking

48
00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:39,000
Speaker 3: at it, and we started pulling up YouTube videos of

49
00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:43,880
Speaker 3: mother deer's calling to their baby, to their babies, right idea,

50
00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:46,799
Speaker 3: just to see what would occur and would it recognize

51
00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,040
Speaker 3: those sounds? Are you know, does this mother deer sound

52
00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,680
Speaker 3: like this other mother white tailed deer? And and played

53
00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,840
Speaker 3: some and we watched as its ears just began, you know,

54
00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:01,280
Speaker 3: making movements as though it appears that the deer either

55
00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,400
Speaker 3: recognizes a similarity to it or is hearing something in

56
00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:08,720
Speaker 3: there that we imagined would be like listening to someone

57
00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:11,160
Speaker 3: saying words to that recreate the same.

58
00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:13,320
Speaker 2: Thing with crows. Yeah.

59
00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,360
Speaker 3: Interesting. Crows are so cool to me in that respect

60
00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:20,639
Speaker 3: because I've always understood that they've got such complexity and differences.

61
00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:22,320
Speaker 3: Are there? Is there s?

62
00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:26,040
Speaker 5: I mean, yeah, gosh, that wasn't on this episode. It

63
00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:28,400
Speaker 5: was on it was on Ridiculous History. Recently, Ben played

64
00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:32,880
Speaker 5: this poem that was in Chinese that used a single sound,

65
00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:35,880
Speaker 5: like an alphabet sound, and it did it like fifteen

66
00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,720
Speaker 5: different ways with like upward and downward inflections and stuff.

67
00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:41,400
Speaker 5: And I imagine stuff like that is you know, very

68
00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:42,920
Speaker 5: important in the animal can.

69
00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:48,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think we've all started to look at

70
00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:54,680
Speaker 4: our animals differently, maybe real quickly throw to our pal Dylan, uh,

71
00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:59,280
Speaker 4: Dylan has our previous exploration on talking with animals. Has

72
00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,080
Speaker 4: it changed the way you're talking to your pets?

73
00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:04,520
Speaker 6: Man, I'm definitely thinking about it more. You know. It's

74
00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:06,920
Speaker 6: it's interesting because I'm like, how many phrases it does

75
00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:08,800
Speaker 6: my dog know? And how much is it about my

76
00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:12,200
Speaker 6: intonation because there's definitely that she knows the difference between

77
00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:13,840
Speaker 6: do you want to go out, which means go in

78
00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:15,560
Speaker 6: the backyard, and do you want to go on a walk,

79
00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:17,800
Speaker 6: which means going through the front door, things like that.

80
00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:21,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, dude, I've been I've been trying it on mine too,

81
00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:23,960
Speaker 3: just same deal, trying to figure out is it actually

82
00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:24,920
Speaker 3: the language or just.

83
00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:27,159
Speaker 2: The tone for sure? And I mean, was it Ben?

84
00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:29,240
Speaker 5: I think on the last episode you pointed out to

85
00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,600
Speaker 5: me with my cat complaints that yes, in fact, studies

86
00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:34,640
Speaker 5: show that cats do know when you're calling their name,

87
00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:37,160
Speaker 5: they just don't care. So then it becomes like, what

88
00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:41,039
Speaker 5: is it about cats versus dogs that makes that reaction different,

89
00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,159
Speaker 5: you know, because cats don't react the same kind of

90
00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,000
Speaker 5: talk that dogs do, if.

91
00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:48,640
Speaker 2: They react at all. Frankly, and by the way, Vanessa

92
00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:49,240
Speaker 2: did come back.

93
00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:51,920
Speaker 5: I had some construction going on at my house and

94
00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:53,760
Speaker 5: the cat didn't show up for like a whole day,

95
00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:55,680
Speaker 5: and I started to get a little scared, but she

96
00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:59,480
Speaker 5: she turned up once the construction melee was cleared.

97
00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:05,960
Speaker 4: What a perfect description, construction melee. That's beautiful. We do

98
00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:11,680
Speaker 4: hope that you have found this exploration as fascinating as

99
00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:14,120
Speaker 4: we do. We're going to pause for a word from

100
00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:19,640
Speaker 4: our sponsors that are currently not using large language models

101
00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:31,240
Speaker 4: to speak crow or cetacean. We'll be right back. Here

102
00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:34,960
Speaker 4: are the facts, all right. Previously we explored this whole

103
00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:40,080
Speaker 4: bag of badgers. It's the thing called communication in general,

104
00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:46,240
Speaker 4: and speech, the organized vocalization to convey a specific concept

105
00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:51,240
Speaker 4: is only one very small part of that huge umbrella term.

106
00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:54,560
Speaker 4: And I think we all agreed in chapter one that

107
00:05:55,080 --> 00:06:01,960
Speaker 4: every living animal has some form of communication. Right, Maybe

108
00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:03,240
Speaker 4: we're anthrocentric.

109
00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:05,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, oh well yeah, I mean I think that's the

110
00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:07,560
Speaker 5: crux of this whole question. I think we said at

111
00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:09,760
Speaker 5: the very top of the first episode is like the

112
00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:14,039
Speaker 5: antro centric nature of the question, can we talk to animals?

113
00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:15,479
Speaker 2: Yeah?

114
00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,080
Speaker 3: And it goes back to this concept that's been around

115
00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:22,400
Speaker 3: for a long time that potentially most noises that animals

116
00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:25,720
Speaker 3: make are an alert of some form or another, and

117
00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:30,120
Speaker 3: that's it. And it's generally to alert other animals within

118
00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:33,359
Speaker 3: their pod, within their group, within their whatever it is,

119
00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:37,760
Speaker 3: their pack, or at least most sounds are for that

120
00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:40,680
Speaker 3: unless you get into some of the things specifically that

121
00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:44,560
Speaker 3: mothers make. There there are generally soothing sounds that are

122
00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,760
Speaker 3: out there. But are there actual do animals call each

123
00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:50,560
Speaker 3: other by name? Which is something really cool we're going

124
00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:54,240
Speaker 3: to find out today, and do animals well yeah, well yeah,

125
00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:58,600
Speaker 3: at least we know of a few species that have names, right,

126
00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:01,640
Speaker 3: But then you know, is that across the board and

127
00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:03,400
Speaker 3: we just don't understand it yet.

128
00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:08,040
Speaker 4: Right, And that's a great point, because every animal has

129
00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:13,520
Speaker 4: some complex form of communication, even if it's not, you know,

130
00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:17,960
Speaker 4: speaking the King's English. Oh, I forgot they got a

131
00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:23,080
Speaker 4: king again? Right, good on you United Kingdom. I keep

132
00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:24,080
Speaker 4: forgetting they have a king.

133
00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:29,120
Speaker 3: Why wasn't the Why wasn't it the United Queendom for

134
00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:30,800
Speaker 3: you know a long time?

135
00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:31,000
Speaker 2: There?

136
00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:36,320
Speaker 4: These are the questions. So every every animal having this stuff. Uh,

137
00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:43,280
Speaker 4: some of these communication or communicative channels are genuinely incomprehensible

138
00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:45,000
Speaker 4: to the unaided human.

139
00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:48,600
Speaker 2: They just they just don't have the hardware to rock.

140
00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:49,360
Speaker 2: What's happening.

141
00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:51,960
Speaker 4: Maybe an analogy here if we walk it out a

142
00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,520
Speaker 4: little bit, walk it out, walk it out is uh.

143
00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:59,520
Speaker 4: Let's say an octopus is a postal worker. Right in

144
00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:03,320
Speaker 4: an octam goes around and delivers letters. They're great at

145
00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:06,960
Speaker 4: it because they have eight arms. And in this analogy,

146
00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:11,120
Speaker 4: the octopus wants to deliver a letter, but our human

147
00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:16,000
Speaker 4: recipient doesn't have a mailbox, so there's no way for

148
00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:20,680
Speaker 4: this message to cross the chasm of interspecial differences.

149
00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:22,960
Speaker 5: I think a film that does a good job of

150
00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:25,520
Speaker 5: portraying this disconnect.

151
00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:28,880
Speaker 2: Is a rival with the just golf.

152
00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:31,880
Speaker 5: I guess between the way humans communicate and the alien

153
00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,319
Speaker 5: species that is, you know, featured in the film and

154
00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:36,040
Speaker 5: then I saw you do it, not because I think

155
00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:38,680
Speaker 5: you've brought this up too. It has more to do

156
00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:42,440
Speaker 5: with like is it a sound based it's not sound based,

157
00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:45,920
Speaker 5: or there's something inherently like the square peg in a

158
00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:50,240
Speaker 5: round whole situation about the way the species communicates versus

159
00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:51,160
Speaker 5: you know humans.

160
00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:53,559
Speaker 3: I don't want to spoil anything, but the key to

161
00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:57,480
Speaker 3: their language is time. One of the best movies ever made.

162
00:08:57,559 --> 00:08:58,120
Speaker 2: It isn't great.

163
00:08:58,240 --> 00:08:59,800
Speaker 5: I need to revisit it because I'm obviously I'm a

164
00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:00,880
Speaker 5: little foggy on the details.

165
00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:02,320
Speaker 2: But isn't that right though? The way that that.

166
00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:04,800
Speaker 5: That's it does do a good job of portraying that.

167
00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:08,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, the whole movie is about how to figure out

168
00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:12,920
Speaker 3: how to communicate right, and communication is key, guys. I've

169
00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:13,880
Speaker 3: learned that through therapy.

170
00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:17,240
Speaker 2: Okay, sure, self awareness is a big one.

171
00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,640
Speaker 3: Communication is the greatest. I want to say, this octopus

172
00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,120
Speaker 3: we're talking about here and who's working for the mail

173
00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,439
Speaker 3: I think we should put that octopus in the letter

174
00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:29,199
Speaker 3: sorting room. That's where he's I love.

175
00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:32,480
Speaker 2: That's working for the mail. I don't know that maybe, laugh,

176
00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:35,160
Speaker 2: you're right. Can you picture the cartoon version of where

177
00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:38,120
Speaker 2: you chucking letters left and right and just like a blur.

178
00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:40,839
Speaker 5: You know of like arms and paper flying, like he's

179
00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,080
Speaker 5: in the mail room shooting things up, shoots to be

180
00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,440
Speaker 5: delivered to the executives in the c suite like in

181
00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:46,040
Speaker 5: the fifties.

182
00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:49,040
Speaker 4: You know, that would have been a fantastic addition to

183
00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:52,440
Speaker 4: the always Sunny episode where Charlie Day works in the

184
00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:54,920
Speaker 4: mail room. Oh yeah, if they come up with the

185
00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:59,959
Speaker 4: idea that they got to bring an octopus in, all right,

186
00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:02,320
Speaker 4: get at us, Get at us.

187
00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:04,320
Speaker 2: Rob Glenn and Charlie.

188
00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:06,520
Speaker 3: He's just got it in a tank in the room

189
00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:08,840
Speaker 3: and he's like trying to explain to Mac that he's

190
00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:10,760
Speaker 3: you know, we're working and we're working on it.

191
00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:15,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, this guy doesn't stop this octopus?

192
00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:21,120
Speaker 2: Can he read? All right? Moving on? H Yeah, so

193
00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:24,200
Speaker 2: sweet is the question. That's the question. Wait, but also

194
00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:25,040
Speaker 2: does he need to read?

195
00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:27,880
Speaker 5: Because if you just train it based on the right thing,

196
00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:30,600
Speaker 5: then maybe that doesn't even matter. Per the story of

197
00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:34,400
Speaker 5: Clever Hans, you know in the previous episode.

198
00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:40,079
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly press it there. We know that the point

199
00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:44,679
Speaker 4: about anthrocentrism bears repeating because a lot of people throughout

200
00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:49,760
Speaker 4: history made these very well intentioned, valid assumptions that were

201
00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:53,280
Speaker 4: still assumptions. They said, hey, look at us, we're humans.

202
00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:57,320
Speaker 4: We can talk. Other animals are also smart, so maybe

203
00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:01,280
Speaker 4: they can learn to talk like us instead of us

204
00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:04,240
Speaker 4: meeting them where they are at communicatively.

205
00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:07,720
Speaker 5: I mean, we even do that within our species in

206
00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:10,920
Speaker 5: terms of like everybody ought to know English. But you know,

207
00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:11,920
Speaker 5: we can't be bothered.

208
00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:13,319
Speaker 2: I don't know.

209
00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:14,920
Speaker 5: It just encouraged to me the other day, how like

210
00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:18,480
Speaker 5: some bad people will make a big point about how

211
00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:22,280
Speaker 5: certain immigrants don't speak good English, but they speak English

212
00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:25,360
Speaker 5: way better than you speak Mandarin, my friend, I will tell.

213
00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:27,520
Speaker 2: You that right now. And that's I don't know.

214
00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:31,840
Speaker 5: It always occurs to me how thoughtless and egotistical that

215
00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:32,640
Speaker 5: kind of stuff is.

216
00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,800
Speaker 4: It's very self centered because look, you know, you run

217
00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:38,800
Speaker 4: into someone who is making the effort to speak to

218
00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:42,920
Speaker 4: you in your lingua franca and they don't get everything right.

219
00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:45,960
Speaker 4: Remember they were a polyglot and you.

220
00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:46,640
Speaker 2: May not be.

221
00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:50,480
Speaker 4: So they walked a lot further to get to that

222
00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:54,280
Speaker 4: conversation that you did. And I think that's a brilliant comparison, Noel.

223
00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:57,600
Speaker 4: I mean, like you said, clever Haun's the math horse.

224
00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,160
Speaker 4: From there, all the way up to the modern day

225
00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,840
Speaker 4: public and scientists alike have been accused of sort of

226
00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:07,000
Speaker 4: seeing what they wanted to see, or perhaps hearing what

227
00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:09,720
Speaker 4: they want to hear. And we talked about this a

228
00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:13,800
Speaker 4: little bit. Researchers are still going back and forth over

229
00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:20,960
Speaker 4: whether certain animal experiments did result in actual conversation or

230
00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:25,120
Speaker 4: was Alex the African gray parrot or Coco the Lowland

231
00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:29,280
Speaker 4: gorilla where they just mimicking the behavior and responding to

232
00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:33,280
Speaker 4: the cues of the people quote unquote training them and

233
00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:40,880
Speaker 4: previously we mentioned Matt, you mentioned lightly the astonishing orangutang,

234
00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,040
Speaker 4: right Arangton, and we got to give them one more

235
00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:48,160
Speaker 4: quick shout out. Have you guys seen the various videos

236
00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:54,120
Speaker 4: of these forest dudes, as the name translates, Have you

237
00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:58,920
Speaker 4: guys seen the videos of them like figuring out solutions

238
00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:03,240
Speaker 4: to problems or getting people to show them their human babies,

239
00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:04,280
Speaker 4: all that cool stuff.

240
00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,800
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, And we also talked about some of

241
00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:10,800
Speaker 3: the chimps that were taught sign language and other types

242
00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:15,160
Speaker 3: of language, uh before even before them, some of the

243
00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:19,360
Speaker 3: great apes that Jane Goodall was directly, you know, associated with.

244
00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:21,760
Speaker 3: She was not associated with cocoa, by the way. I

245
00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:24,079
Speaker 3: think I mentioned that specifically, or I had a thought

246
00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:25,160
Speaker 3: that she was, but she was not.

247
00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:27,319
Speaker 2: But like you pointed out, she was.

248
00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:30,400
Speaker 5: She was aware, and I believe I read a quote

249
00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,199
Speaker 5: of hers, but that where it was preserving to a

250
00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:34,800
Speaker 5: lot of the things that she believed.

251
00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:37,760
Speaker 4: For sure, Yeah, and you did share that quote. We

252
00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:45,880
Speaker 4: also know that oragatons are specifically associated with a closely

253
00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:49,440
Speaker 4: related cryptic over in their part of the world, the

254
00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:52,960
Speaker 4: wrong pendict, which we have we have talked about a

255
00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,320
Speaker 4: little bit in the past anyway it could be. It

256
00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,840
Speaker 4: can feel like kind of a bummer to hear someone say, oh, no,

257
00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:02,760
Speaker 4: actually you're not talking with non human animals, But we

258
00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:07,280
Speaker 4: got to remember this is how scientific progress works. Pretty

259
00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:10,960
Speaker 4: much everybody was not a sociopath, at some point has

260
00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:16,920
Speaker 4: felt a bond and understanding some sort of communicative connection

261
00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:20,480
Speaker 4: with a non human animal. And I think one of

262
00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:26,440
Speaker 4: the biggest unexpected conspiracies we found at play here is

263
00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:30,960
Speaker 4: that it turns out for quite some time, other animals

264
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:36,200
Speaker 4: have been trying to talk to humans like ardently and

265
00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:40,920
Speaker 4: a good faith and humanity is just now maybe figuring

266
00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:43,400
Speaker 4: out how to receive those messages. So it's kind of

267
00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:48,560
Speaker 4: weird to say it, but despite all the human cognitive superpowers,

268
00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,760
Speaker 4: it turns out that humanity may have been the dumb

269
00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:55,840
Speaker 4: kids in the class the whole time. Yeah.

270
00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:59,280
Speaker 3: Really, imagine your cat mewing at you now and thinking

271
00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:03,760
Speaker 3: your cat is just going trying to speak slowly to

272
00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:05,800
Speaker 3: get you to understand my.

273
00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,440
Speaker 5: Cat mew and me plays on a loop in my

274
00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:11,760
Speaker 5: mind at all times. It is, it is haunting me.

275
00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,480
Speaker 4: It programs you right, Like how if you play Tetris

276
00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:19,040
Speaker 4: too long you dream of Tetris and you're really good

277
00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:25,160
Speaker 4: at packing U hauls. Yes, yes, here's where it gets crazy.

278
00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:27,960
Speaker 4: All right, what if we pick up where we left

279
00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:31,680
Speaker 4: off with more examples of human to animal communication in

280
00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:42,960
Speaker 4: specific species. Hate to sound like a broken record, but folks, cephalopods, cephalopods.

281
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:47,120
Speaker 3: Cephalopods, So we're talking octopuses, squid. What else fits in there?

282
00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:52,200
Speaker 4: Cuddle fish maybe, cuddlefish, mollusk the well, there are type,

283
00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:57,280
Speaker 4: there are a class of mollusks. Also, the aliens id

284
00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:02,280
Speaker 4: arrival are very much inspired by cephalopods.

285
00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,520
Speaker 3: Yes, but also like a human hand this giant but

286
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:11,080
Speaker 3: also cephalopod. It's very strange. The spoilers. Sorry, sorry, this

287
00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:15,600
Speaker 3: a great moment where they get revealed. These things are incredible.

288
00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:18,480
Speaker 3: Have you guys seen them take the tests that they

289
00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:21,400
Speaker 3: give to kids where they can put, you know, a

290
00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:24,800
Speaker 3: specifically shaped box into a specifically shaped hole and somehow

291
00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,960
Speaker 3: they understand that's what you want them to do, or

292
00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:32,600
Speaker 3: match colors or I do the again. Uh myx wife

293
00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:36,560
Speaker 3: was a cognitivehavioral therapist, so I watched these tests happen,

294
00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:40,640
Speaker 3: and specifically with young children, attempting to work out what

295
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:42,880
Speaker 3: it is that you're supposed to do and how to

296
00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:46,320
Speaker 3: do it. But then somehow these creatures that live deep

297
00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:48,880
Speaker 3: within the ocean can just figure it out.

298
00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:55,960
Speaker 4: And the unendiedly hilarious part is, as researchers have found

299
00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:01,160
Speaker 4: time and time again, these octopuses in specific will only

300
00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:05,280
Speaker 4: play your reindeer games if they like you, right, If

301
00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:07,919
Speaker 4: they don't like you, they will beat me here Yl,

302
00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:11,160
Speaker 4: They'll be like this guy in particular, and they'll squirt

303
00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,240
Speaker 4: ink or they'll throw the puzzle at you.

304
00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:14,600
Speaker 2: Sure.

305
00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:20,159
Speaker 5: Yeah, famously depicted in Finding Nemo Too. Oh yeah, I

306
00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:24,720
Speaker 5: think there's an octopus that is bouncing around in that movie.

307
00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,520
Speaker 2: If I'm not mistaken from an aquarium. Isn't Finding Nemo

308
00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:29,040
Speaker 2: to the one that involves an aquarium?

309
00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:31,160
Speaker 3: Is it called Finding Nemo Too?

310
00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:33,560
Speaker 2: Well, it's it's called Finding Dory.

311
00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:37,639
Speaker 3: Ah Okay, now now I know what you're talking about.

312
00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:39,360
Speaker 2: I mean it's Finding Nemo too.

313
00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:44,200
Speaker 4: Finding My ears prick up every time I see uh

314
00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:49,080
Speaker 4: Dylan go off mute because he's about to deliver the

315
00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:51,720
Speaker 4: mail on us on this Yeah.

316
00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,520
Speaker 6: That was Finding Dormy was when the octopus kept trying

317
00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:56,320
Speaker 6: to escape, right.

318
00:17:57,320 --> 00:17:59,159
Speaker 5: But he squorts somebody in the eyes with ink at

319
00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:01,199
Speaker 5: some point. If I'm not and he does have he

320
00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:03,720
Speaker 5: you know, kick Star does a good job with this

321
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:07,639
Speaker 5: anthrope homorphization while staying true to like some of the

322
00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:11,040
Speaker 5: original you know, like things that the actual creatures do

323
00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:11,679
Speaker 5: in there.

324
00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:13,880
Speaker 4: Day based on real world events.

325
00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,240
Speaker 5: Right and based on you know, relatively good science. They

326
00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:17,439
Speaker 5: seem to be into that stuff.

327
00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:25,040
Speaker 4: The octopus paids plus octopus, puscapades, piscopades.

328
00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:28,000
Speaker 3: That's where you're saying, guys, it is unrelated. Did you

329
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:30,760
Speaker 3: see toy story five is actually happening.

330
00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:34,560
Speaker 2: You know, unhappy about that. Quentin Tarantino, he's awesome.

331
00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:37,200
Speaker 5: He's got some hot takes, he says, No, I refused

332
00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:38,240
Speaker 5: it ended perfectly.

333
00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:42,040
Speaker 2: He actually doesn't even like four. He's very four. Well,

334
00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:43,399
Speaker 2: he's a very big fan of three.

335
00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:48,720
Speaker 3: Look, I'm super excited because Forky is still around and tight.

336
00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:53,080
Speaker 3: My whole family loves Forky. And isn't it sporky, No,

337
00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:55,480
Speaker 3: it's Forky. Isn't he a spork though he's a fork

338
00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:59,800
Speaker 3: He was Forky okay, okay on Disney Plus and look

339
00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:02,880
Speaker 3: at shorts Forky Testy.

340
00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:06,200
Speaker 4: Look listen, I don't have monicles. Really.

341
00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:11,240
Speaker 3: Wow, I'm so excited because Conan O'Brien is going to

342
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:14,360
Speaker 3: be a character named Smarty Pants, and there's an interview

343
00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:16,560
Speaker 3: he did, I think with Deadline or somewhere else where.

344
00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,119
Speaker 3: He talks, it's just Conan O'Brien. I'm sorry, I'm a

345
00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:19,480
Speaker 3: big fan.

346
00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:21,600
Speaker 2: It's going to be a lot.

347
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,600
Speaker 4: I don't think you should apologize for enjoying the work.

348
00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,560
Speaker 2: Pixie of a creature And there's a celebrity for him.

349
00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:30,919
Speaker 3: And we know how, you know, we get it, but

350
00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:34,720
Speaker 3: it's he He is so funny in the way he

351
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:38,800
Speaker 3: approaches uh you know, his attempts to first get the

352
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,199
Speaker 3: roles of Woody and Buzz and like how you know

353
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,240
Speaker 3: it was astonishing that they wouldn't give him those roles.

354
00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:44,159
Speaker 2: Do you know?

355
00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:46,600
Speaker 5: He has a really small part in the Death Stranding

356
00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,960
Speaker 5: sequel that like weird ass like video game that uh

357
00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,640
Speaker 5: Kajima does with the Norman. They call it The Walking

358
00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:55,920
Speaker 5: See I'm playing the first one, but the second one

359
00:19:56,320 --> 00:20:00,000
Speaker 5: is out, and I believe there is. He appears a

360
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,080
Speaker 5: the hologram or something and he talks about going in

361
00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:05,360
Speaker 5: to shoot it with mo Cap at Kojima's studios.

362
00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:06,359
Speaker 2: And how he had no idea what he was supposed

363
00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:08,119
Speaker 2: to be doing or what the story was about.

364
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:12,600
Speaker 4: That that's a radically different video game right to the

365
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:16,560
Speaker 4: usual genre, just like the octopus is a radically different creature.

366
00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,080
Speaker 2: Genius, genius chance the rest of the world.

367
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:22,280
Speaker 3: Guys, I am so sorry, and I don't know how

368
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:24,960
Speaker 3: this happened or why, and I don't think I have

369
00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:27,440
Speaker 3: a bunch of them in my house, but I very

370
00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:31,439
Speaker 3: well might. A cockroach just crawled across my screen and

371
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,120
Speaker 3: I grabbed it. It is currently in my hand. I'm

372
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:36,600
Speaker 3: going to you can eat it. No, I'm gonna go

373
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:39,840
Speaker 3: take it and throw it outside really fast. Amazing, guys,

374
00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,879
Speaker 3: I'm from outside. It's it's I don't want to open

375
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:44,560
Speaker 3: my hands, so he'll get out.

376
00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:49,680
Speaker 2: Thanks for coming, man, Thanks for tuning in.

377
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:54,000
Speaker 3: Yeah here here can you hear that dude holding railing around?

378
00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:56,480
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it's wadling around a lot.

379
00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,119
Speaker 2: You're a bold mofo, my friend.

380
00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:02,040
Speaker 3: This is very so I'm gonna go take this outside

381
00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:04,600
Speaker 3: and you know what, We'll be right back after a

382
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:08,720
Speaker 3: word from our human sponsors.

383
00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,800
Speaker 2: And we have returned. Yes.

384
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:20,080
Speaker 4: Just like Death Stranding was a radically different game in

385
00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:24,040
Speaker 4: the milieu of video games before it, The cephalopods in

386
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:30,919
Speaker 4: general the octopus in specific, are so incomprehensibly different to

387
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 4: surface life that you could consider them an alien organism

388
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:40,639
Speaker 4: that just happens to share our same galactic address they have.

389
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:45,760
Speaker 4: They're very smart, they have immense mental abilities. They also

390
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:52,760
Speaker 4: have way cooler physical superpowers. Like the octopus dreams, its alls, puzzles,

391
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:57,320
Speaker 4: it recognizes, it remembers individual humans that it likes or

392
00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:01,480
Speaker 4: doesn't like. We're talking off air. They can rearrange or

393
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,360
Speaker 4: edit their own are in a on the fly, and that.

394
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,600
Speaker 2: What allows them to change color and stuff or is

395
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 2: that made up? Don't some of them? They can?

396
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:14,800
Speaker 3: They can blend in yes, oh yes, camouflage the.

397
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 4: Chromatophores, which are also a way that they communicate, right,

398
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:25,440
Speaker 4: Like the bee communicates through dance, the octopus will communicate

399
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:31,679
Speaker 4: with color. They also have very sensitive ocular hardware. So

400
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,119
Speaker 4: it sounds like if you were if we were all

401
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:39,639
Speaker 4: aliens and we were getting gain some vacation time on Earth,

402
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:43,840
Speaker 4: and we got a little pamphlet that said Earth, you'd

403
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,840
Speaker 4: read about the octopus, and you would think these guys

404
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:47,240
Speaker 4: are at.

405
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 2: The top, Which is funny. I mean, it makes a

406
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 2: lot of sense.

407
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:55,960
Speaker 5: I guess that so many aliens are depicted as cephalopod

408
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,920
Speaker 5: esque you know, for for better or worse. I mean,

409
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:02,240
Speaker 5: oftentimes they are to it as antagonistic, you know, especially

410
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 5: the Cuthulhu type. You know mythos of the cosmic horror,

411
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 5: you know that HP Lovecraft put out.

412
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 2: But yeah, that's that's I.

413
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 5: Think it's just like the most alien thing that we

414
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 5: can see here on Earth that looks squiggily and creepy

415
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 5: and otherworldly.

416
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,880
Speaker 3: It's a great point. Uh, as we continue forward, we're

417
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 3: gonna talk about these guys. Then we're gonna go on

418
00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 3: land for a bit and then go back into the ocean.

419
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 3: But it does make me imagine another intelligent life coming

420
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,800
Speaker 3: to this planet, which is largely a water planet, and

421
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 3: checking out the water first, because I mean, there's it's

422
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 3: mostly water. So let's go there and you find these

423
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 3: guys and cetaceans and whales and some of those some

424
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:46,120
Speaker 3: of the other more intelligent creatures that exist out there,

425
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 3: and you may very well imagine that they're the ones

426
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 3: responsible for all the stuff floating around, you know, all

427
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 3: the satellites that you encounter on your way in. That

428
00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 3: would make a lot of.

429
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 4: Sense, right there would be another well intentioned assumption, yet

430
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 4: an assumption nonetheless, the thing is the octopus kind of

431
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:13,400
Speaker 4: made what we will call a Fausti embargain. Evolutionarily speaking,

432
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:18,880
Speaker 4: they got all these superpowers, chromatophores out the wazoo. There's

433
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 4: just nuts. They're like if Cursive was a living thing.

434
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 4: But they do have a curse upon them, not cursive,

435
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 4: but a curse. They've got very short lifespans in comparison

436
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 4: to other animals of their cognitive ability. They also have

437
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 4: what we've talked about in the past, a hard hormonal

438
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 4: kill switch. It means that if you are an octopus,

439
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 4: you are driven to reproduce, and when you reproduce, you

440
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 4: will die.

441
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 2: Yeah.

442
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 3: They're also crazy efficient hunters, but no bones or very

443
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 3: few bones.

444
00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 5: Bones come on, there's just a liability always breaking them

445
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:01,200
Speaker 5: and stuff.

446
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:06,680
Speaker 4: There we go, it's octopus insurance policies. But also they

447
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 4: come up in a very different environment. You know, think

448
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,920
Speaker 4: about it this way, Maybe how could an underwater creature,

449
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 4: regardless of intelligence, figure out how to do some of

450
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:22,880
Speaker 4: humanity's greatest hits like tame fire. The closest you could

451
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,919
Speaker 4: get is an undersea vent that you would sort of

452
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 4: worship like a god.

453
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 3: Hmmm, yeah, but you got bioluminescence. Man like, right, screwfire,

454
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 3: We're just gonna make ourselves glow.

455
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 2: Why do we need to cook? You know what I mean?

456
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:46,160
Speaker 4: And there there's also the question of environmental pressures. What

457
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 4: environmental pressures exist for the octopus that would create something

458
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 4: the surface dwellers would recognize as culture, right, Corvid's whales

459
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 4: they all have some kind of mechanism and humans sorry

460
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 4: for passing knowledge through generations, right, they have deep oral history,

461
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 4: some birds and some whales and some humans.

462
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 3: Sorry, And well, you know, if they can edit there RNA,

463
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 3: I wonder if there's anything you could do with that

464
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:19,119
Speaker 3: to pass down knowledge of something to your young Like

465
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 3: you edit your own RNA somehow, which it isn't the

466
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 3: same as editing your DNA, but you know, you edit

467
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 3: yourself in some way so that the next version of

468
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 3: you now has that thing that creating.

469
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, epigenetic changes, just like a Neil Stevenson's seventies spoilers.

470
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:42,680
Speaker 4: This is weird because evolution is history's most brutal editor, right,

471
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 4: Like you know we always hear the thing kill your darlings.

472
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 4: Evolution invented that. So maybe the octopus just never needed

473
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 4: to create some kind of intergenerational culture. Maybe it never

474
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 4: had the evil lutionary opportunity up till now to do so.

475
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 4: But they're just oh my god, such an octopus stand

476
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 4: they would call it. I'm like, they're my favorites right right.

477
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 5: There are a lot of people refuse to eat them

478
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 5: because I mean, it's probably obvious, there are a lot

479
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,160
Speaker 5: of people know this, but because they are so sentient

480
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 5: that even people that eat other, you know, seafood, refuse

481
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 5: to eat to eat.

482
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:27,400
Speaker 2: Octopus very much.

483
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 4: So.

484
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,199
Speaker 3: My son and I used to go to the sushi

485
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 3: place all the time before the recent orthodonist unpleasantness, you know,

486
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 3: but but pleasant well, and octopus was one of his

487
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 3: favorite things and and I you know, i'd let him

488
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 3: eat if he wanted to eat it. But then we

489
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 3: had a whole conversation about these guys and what they

490
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,640
Speaker 3: mean and how they operate and what they might represent,

491
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 3: and we just decided, no, we're not gonna do that anymore.

492
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, or you know, just go the sith version and say, okay,

493
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:03,679
Speaker 4: we'll eat humans too. Not yet, not yet. That's a

494
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 4: different sushi restaurant, and I hope it's not the States.

495
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 4: I mean, look, the octopus can do object permanence right,

496
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:14,920
Speaker 4: and we pointed this out earlier.

497
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 2: They do seem to enjoy pranks.

498
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:25,199
Speaker 4: There are cases of an octopus in an aquarium that

499
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 4: will break out of a place, do a little heist,

500
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 4: and then go back to its own aquarium and literally

501
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,400
Speaker 4: lower the lid and close the latch such that no

502
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 4: one knows what's happening. Or they can escape back to

503
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 4: the sea, you know, free our boys, or they'll just

504
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 4: squirt ink at people, not because they're scared, because they

505
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 4: seem to think it's funny.

506
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 2: Kind of cool, right, kind of cool.

507
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 4: I mean, so we could say we can't humans cannot

508
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 4: talk with our watering. What'd you say it, don't love

509
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 4: crafty of brethren from the debts? Yeah, okay, but we

510
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 4: can establish a type of connection, a little bit of

511
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 4: rude amentary communication through positive reinforcement. But they're just so different.

512
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 4: We don't know how the octopus processes concepts like friendship

513
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 4: or kinship.

514
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 5: Have you seen what is it My Octopus Teacher documentary?

515
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 5: Or we're a diver naturalist. I can't remember exactly what

516
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 5: his background is. You know, has an octopus friend who

517
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 5: he spends a lot of time with, and it's I

518
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 5: haven't seen it entirely. I've seen moments of it, but

519
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 5: it's apparently quite moving and really demonstrates how that, you know, uh,

520
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 5: species interra species relationship can be very meaningful or at

521
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 5: least seem that way.

522
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 4: Agreed, Absolutely love it. Please do watch that documentary. It's

523
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 4: a banger. And also tell us if you have befriended

524
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 4: one of our cephalopod pals before we do that trigger

525
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 4: warning for any people with emotive responses to the concept

526
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 4: of birds. Noel, is it okay talking about Is it

527
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 4: okay if we talk about birds for a second?

528
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, But can I just say I saw an AI

529
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 5: generated like horror clip online yesterday that was these just

530
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 5: giant predatory birds just tearing apart flesh and you know

531
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 5: how fed up some of that AI stuff looks, and

532
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 5: it was it really got to me. It was like

533
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 5: the first time my bird phobia sort of kicked in

534
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 5: or I was like, uh uh no, no, thank you.

535
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 3: It's going way back to that whole epigenetics thing where no,

536
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 3: I'm just kidd we weren't around with the dinosaurs, but

537
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 3: I was gonna imagine, you know, human flesh. One time

538
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 3: our ancestors saw human flesh being torn open by giant

539
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 3: alligators and sharks, which is you.

540
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 5: Know, and now we fear them even if it's not

541
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 5: necessarily something that's a threat to us.

542
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 4: I got to there is a prival response to the reptilion.

543
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, but we just we weren't exactly around at least

544
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 3: we have no humanity of any sort that would be

545
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 3: a descendant was around at that time.

546
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:11,239
Speaker 4: Yes, right, so far we want to believe it is

547
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 4: a true story that for about I think a very

548
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 4: brief period of ancient history, flightless large birds were the

549
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 4: apex predator for a lot of earth.

550
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,719
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, doesn't a flightless bird just seem like they

551
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 5: really kind of lost the genetic lottery, Like, what's the

552
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 5: point of being a bird if you can't fly? And

553
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 5: maybe that's very reductive, but flightless bird just seems like

554
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 5: a real bummer.

555
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 3: Ask the penguins, dude, The penguins are having a good

556
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 3: old time, you know.

557
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 4: Okay, you're right, but they can slide. At least they

558
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 4: got well theirs. Their version of flight is swimming, right.

559
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 2: See this guy and.

560
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 3: An ostrich and an emu. They're out there, man. They

561
00:31:57,920 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 3: run fast as the wind.

562
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 4: So it's like flying right at a shoe bill looks

563
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 4: like it will stalk you on Instagram.

564
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 2: They just got it. They've got a very intense theare.

565
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 3: I know, we're jumping too. Birds, guys. There's one last

566
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 3: point I want to make about the cephalopods there. Because

567
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 3: they don't have a vocalization at least that we are

568
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 3: aware of, you cannot study them at least their language

569
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 3: if you put that in quotations or their communication in

570
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 3: the same way that you can study something like birds, right,

571
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 3: or like some of these other even underwater mammals that

572
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 3: do speak, they have they make vocalizations, but these cephalopods

573
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 3: generally don't. So you're really looking at their communication with

574
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 3: the things we outlined there, the other ways they're the

575
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 3: way they're changing color and all those things. It just

576
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 3: makes it it's a different task, right if you're going

577
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 3: back to the arrival, you know example, you're not. It

578
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 3: is more of a visual understanding of what they're communicating

579
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 3: rather than auditory.

580
00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 4: Mm hmmm, one hundred percent, you know. And and with birds,

581
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 4: they're also quite visually based, right, similar to the octopus,

582
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 4: but they're even more strongly driven depending on the type

583
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 4: of bird you're talking about by auditory cues, right, so

584
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 4: this makes them a little closer to primates and how

585
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 4: they vibe. We already did the terrifying observation of what

586
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 4: bird song really means in chapter one. They're just shouting

587
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 4: out age, sex, location.

588
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 2: Not always this is my tree.

589
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 4: Yes, if it's a COVID, they're yelling screw owls.

590
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 2: You know what I mean, that.

591
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 4: Kind of stuff. It's very graffiti esque. But a ton

592
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 4: of birds can mimic all sorts of sounds in the

593
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,960
Speaker 4: natural world, up to an including human speech. Like the

594
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 4: whole reason we have Starlings in the United States is

595
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 4: a crazy story about a guy who wanted to get

596
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 4: all the birds words mentioned in the works of Shakespeare

597
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 4: and bring them to the US.

598
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, in the same way that Japan has an invasive

599
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 5: raccoon problem because of a children's cartoon. Yeah, people love

600
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 5: to and dumb stuff like that.

601
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:15,840
Speaker 2: It's so weird.

602
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 4: Starlings are a funny example for us because Starling's mimic

603
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 4: a lot of the noises that you, as a human.

604
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 2: Do not care for.

605
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 4: Sirens, alarm, clocks, gunfire, all all the stuff that you

606
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 4: are evolutionarily or behaviorally primed to dislike. Right, Starling will

607
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 4: just run up and you know, run up behind you

608
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 4: and be like.

609
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:42,760
Speaker 3: Whoop, whoop.

610
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:44,840
Speaker 5: What is it just trying to spook you, trying to

611
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 5: spook you out, like as a as a defense mechanism.

612
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 2: What is the purpose for this? They just hear it.

613
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,280
Speaker 2: They that's true ambient sounds.

614
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, that is interesting too, because I mean that's such

615
00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 5: a symbiotic reflection of like our world, and they wouldn't

616
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:02,840
Speaker 5: be doing that if we didn't have all that noise pollution.

617
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 5: And we've certainly talked about stories of how noise pollution

618
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:08,839
Speaker 5: can affect like migratory patterns and.

619
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 2: That this very interesting.

620
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, But the thing is we can't decode the other

621
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 3: stuff fully that's being said by these birds between the mimicry, right,

622
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 3: So we don't know maybe even motivation that we're we're

623
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:24,359
Speaker 3: thinking about right now, What is the motivation of doing

624
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 3: that mimicry? What is the motivation? Well, we can't talk

625
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,879
Speaker 3: to them to fully understand that yet. The hope here, though,

626
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 3: is that through studying the bird songs, and you know,

627
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,359
Speaker 3: there are companies that we're gonna be talking about very

628
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:39,320
Speaker 3: soon that are attempting to analyze every single type of vocalization.

629
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:43,359
Speaker 3: The pauses between those vocalizations and all, like all of

630
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,799
Speaker 3: the complexity of it and figure out exactly what each

631
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 3: one of these things is conveying or attempting to convey.

632
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 3: And you know, the big question is is it as

633
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 3: complex as human speech patterns where we are just missing

634
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,239
Speaker 3: We're missing all those peace to understand. Oh, well it

635
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 3: is there. It sounds like they're saying the same thing,

636
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 3: but the pattern that they set it in is actually

637
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 3: saying something different.

638
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, well said like the pickle of it is the

639
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:18,279
Speaker 4: concept of communication versus mimicry, right, Like, yes, you can

640
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:22,400
Speaker 4: teach certain birds to say all sorts of stuff such

641
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 4: as two for twenty five. You can also teach them

642
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 4: to say a vocalization like religion is control, but that

643
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 4: does not automatically mean the bird in question has really

644
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 4: thought through the concept of metaphysics and is now telling

645
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:42,360
Speaker 4: you they're an atheist.

646
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 3: Well, unless you sit them in front of the TV

647
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,359
Speaker 3: and make them watch Heretic twenty four to seven for

648
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 3: like two weeks, then maybe that.

649
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 4: Movie ruled heretic is. I got this wronged off, Mike.

650
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 4: I thought we were talking about hereditary but no, heretic is.

651
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, Hugh Grant is like this. It's really interesting. I

652
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:02,840
Speaker 2: watch it a couple of times.

653
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 5: Because it's about religious syncretism and the way a lot

654
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:08,359
Speaker 5: of the things we talk about on the show. There

655
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 5: are parts of it that are a little heavy handed,

656
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 5: and the plot twists aren't amazing, but I really.

657
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 2: Liked it at its heart a lot. I think it's

658
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 2: an interesting food for thought kind of.

659
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 3: Movie and based on around the Book of Mormon, at

660
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 3: least largely for the scenario we get to.

661
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 4: See, rated five out of five by bird reviewers on

662
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:29,280
Speaker 4: birch Fork.

663
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, the comment section just says religion is.

664
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:37,879
Speaker 4: Control exactly over and over. And this gets weirder when

665
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 4: we notice. The idea of communication with avians gets even

666
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 4: more labyrinthine when we think about how some birds do

667
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 4: provably bond incredibly closely with human partners, even to the

668
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 4: point of self harm. Right, some of these birds live

669
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 4: sixty plus human years, and when their partner disappears or

670
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,800
Speaker 4: passes way, they're plucking out their feathers. They're not eating,

671
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 4: They're quite distressed. They have lost something they loved.

672
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 2: I don't know.

673
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 4: I keep thinking about Alex, the African gray parrot.

674
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 2: Do you guys think he.

675
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 4: Knew what he was saying when he said I love you.

676
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 2: I don't know.

677
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 5: I mean, love is such a construct kind of like

678
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 5: of metacognition, it doesn't seem I don't know, because we

679
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 5: certainly see affection between you know, members of other species

680
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 5: and the animal kingdom. But then you start to think,

681
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,400
Speaker 5: like is it all purely functional? Is it all just

682
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:40,240
Speaker 5: like a reproduction drive? Like is there any sentimentality wrapped

683
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:40,799
Speaker 5: up in it?

684
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Like that's how we experience it.

685
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 5: I mean, I'm not trying to say it's trite or

686
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 5: like to dismiss the feelings of love or the concept,

687
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 5: but it does seem inherently a product of the way

688
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 5: we think about it within these other kind of structures.

689
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 4: We could also ask the same questions about humans, you

690
00:38:58,640 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 4: know what I mean?

691
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Oh, in this specific case, doesn't it go back

692
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 3: to this question of mimicry versus understanding of what that is?

693
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 3: Because isn't is that not a phrase that somebody that

694
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 3: cares about that parrot would say when they have to

695
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,800
Speaker 3: leave for the day, Like that exact set of phrases

696
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:15,839
Speaker 3: like you.

697
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 4: Say to your partner right or to your kid or something.

698
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 5: You know, I don't not to say nobody could love

699
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 5: a parent, but that's just not true. That's my inherent bias.

700
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:26,360
Speaker 5: Please love your parents.

701
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:30,399
Speaker 4: Well, if you can love a kid or the intelligence

702
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 4: of a human child, then you could arguably love an

703
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 4: African gray and it could love you back, because repeated

704
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 4: cognitive tests bias aside, proves they have the mental acumen

705
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 4: of a four to six year old human child, which

706
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:47,399
Speaker 4: means also old enough to develop personality.

707
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:52,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, okay, So this is why I think the

708
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:56,800
Speaker 3: efforts of companies like the Earth Species Project are really

709
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 3: actually cool and important. While I'm they not fully agree

710
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:02,919
Speaker 3: with a lot of the things in there, I think

711
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 3: the work is going to be important. This is a

712
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 3: company you can read about all over the place. They

713
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:12,839
Speaker 3: are attempting to build a large language model of some sort,

714
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:15,240
Speaker 3: or maybe a series of them, but at least starting

715
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 3: in one large, unified one that can study the vocalizations

716
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 3: of all kinds of animals and fully understand them. So,

717
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 3: using AI and some of these things that are so

718
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 3: exciting right now in the zeitgeist, to look at all

719
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 3: of the language that has been recorded of an African

720
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 3: gray parrot, right, and then really study that stuff. And

721
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:43,720
Speaker 3: then get deeper into other like individual studies where you're looking.

722
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 3: You know, you've got an African gray parrot and you

723
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 3: are working specifically with that parrot to understand all the communication,

724
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 3: building these huge data sets that can hopefully one day

725
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 3: do that kind of magic thing where you know, on

726
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,479
Speaker 3: your phone, Google can do some of this right right now,

727
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 3: at least a little bit. If you go outside and

728
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 3: you open a certain app and you just let your

729
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:08,800
Speaker 3: microphone go for a while, you can discover the different

730
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 3: types of species of birds that are in your backyard

731
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:14,799
Speaker 3: or something right or at a nature preserve. But imagine

732
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:18,239
Speaker 3: being able to actually put that on do that thing

733
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 3: and then get a feedback of what specific species are

734
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 3: attempting to communicate in that part of a forest or something.

735
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:30,759
Speaker 3: It's super cool. And not just with birds. They're trying

736
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:35,880
Speaker 3: to do it with absolutely everything, like all animal communications,

737
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 3: but specifically bioacoustic data, so vocalizations.

738
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:43,239
Speaker 5: Heck, yeah, that sounds fascinating, all right, So I think

739
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:46,840
Speaker 5: we are going to move onto another member of the

740
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 5: animal kingdom. You know, some of our floppy ears and

741
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 5: nosed friends from Africa, you know, and elsewhere and Disney movies.

742
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 2: I'm talking about elephants.

743
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:58,880
Speaker 5: We're going to take quick break here wor from our

744
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:00,399
Speaker 5: sponsor and then be back with more.

745
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 2: And we have returned.

746
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 4: How dare you call him Dumbo?

747
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,360
Speaker 2: Disney? It is offensive and that movie is a bummer.

748
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, the elephants are the opposite of dumbos. In addition

749
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 4: to being physically huge, they are mental titans. Yeah. They

750
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 4: can't talk the same way your human friends can, but

751
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 4: they can understand human words and commands and respond to

752
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 4: certain cues if trained. They have a crazy complex vocabulary.

753
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 4: They trumpet, they roar, they growl. Side note, I didn't

754
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 4: know elephants can growl. It is pretty frightening to imagine

755
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 4: that you're just standing around an elephant and it doesn't

756
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 4: like you, and it goes.

757
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 2: Interesting. I could see that more as like, I am

758
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:52,719
Speaker 2: not amused.

759
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:57,799
Speaker 3: You know, they're one of only a handful of species

760
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 3: that we have observed mourning their dead, right, that's white

761
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:06,840
Speaker 3: a huge deal because it implies empathy, which, oh my gosh,

762
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 3: like that is there anything more human than that?

763
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:12,479
Speaker 5: So that's so cool that you brought that up, because

764
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:14,759
Speaker 5: that was sort of my question about like love and

765
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 5: I mean, mourning and empathy is it's a form of

766
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 5: love and implies loss and like you know, being attached

767
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:26,319
Speaker 5: to somebody beyond just a functional reason. So I think

768
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 5: you just answered my questions. That's yeah, I forgot about

769
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 5: elephants mourning the.

770
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 4: Dead, the object permanence, knowing that something, some mind or

771
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:40,799
Speaker 4: soul was inside of physical frame and that thing has

772
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:41,840
Speaker 4: left the building.

773
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:42,839
Speaker 2: The software is God.

774
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 4: This happens also with Corvid's. This happens with a lot

775
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 4: of other animals as well, including humans. The elephant squeaks,

776
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 4: the elephants snorts get this, which I think we're all

777
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 4: surprised alert. They also communicate through infrasound. That is correct,

778
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 4: friends and neighbors, the same stuff that explains the human

779
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 4: experience with.

780
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:10,720
Speaker 3: Ghost Yeah, it's that stuff that's super low.

781
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 2: It's too low of a vibration for us to hear.

782
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 3: Pretty cool. It makes sense though, those giant ears and

783
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,759
Speaker 3: those really cool trumpets they got that they could make

784
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 3: some kind of cool sounds. Although I doubt that their

785
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:25,839
Speaker 3: nose has anything to do with the infrasound. I think

786
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,600
Speaker 3: it's probably the more guttural throat stuff.

787
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 4: Right, I'm going to say it with due respect and affection.

788
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 4: They have very big ears.

789
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, but means they can probably pick up some

790
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:40,280
Speaker 3: stuff that maybe we can't.

791
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 4: Right, Right, So, in both African and Asian elephants, you

792
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:49,880
Speaker 4: will find infrasound used for long distance columns. For the

793
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:53,879
Speaker 4: African elephants, it's going to be something between fifteen to

794
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:57,279
Speaker 4: thirty five hurts, and for the Asian elephants it's going

795
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 4: to be fourteen to twenty four hurts. And as fellow

796
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 4: sound nerds, can we talk a little bit about how

797
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 4: infrasound works and like what, how can it move so

798
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 4: far like six miles or so? How can it function

799
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:17,400
Speaker 4: as a communication thing that humans don't clock?

800
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 2: Yeah?

801
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:21,120
Speaker 5: I guess it just it doesn't dissipate because of its

802
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:24,479
Speaker 5: frequency range, so it's able to just like move through

803
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:26,880
Speaker 5: materials even sort of the way.

804
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 2: Low frequencies. This is a super low freak, right, isn't

805
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 2: that the deal?

806
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:31,759
Speaker 6: Yeah?

807
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 3: That's crazy. Yeah, fourteen Yeah, that's like und It's.

808
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:40,800
Speaker 5: Just energy, right, I mean, it's just energy that's moving

809
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:42,360
Speaker 5: through a medium.

810
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:45,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a very long wave that just kind of

811
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 3: keeps going.

812
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 1: Uh.

813
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 3: And and wow, it is fascinating because again, if you

814
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 3: open up a dog or something and you open up

815
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:55,320
Speaker 3: an equalizer and you go to the very far left

816
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 3: side when you're looking at it, that's where you're going

817
00:45:57,040 --> 00:45:59,399
Speaker 3: to get to the low frequencies. And you'll see you when,

818
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 3: like when a really popular song is going to come

819
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 3: out on the radio or something. Often and correct me

820
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 3: if I'm wrong here, Noel, that very far left side

821
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:11,359
Speaker 3: over there with the super low sounds, you often have

822
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 3: to duck that just a little of bring it down

823
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 3: just a little bit, or hit a threshold with it,

824
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 3: because it can actually like break speakers if you have

825
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 3: too much low frequency stuff going on and it's too heavy.

826
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:26,279
Speaker 5: It's sareally cam, but it also just muddies up a

827
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 5: mix real bad, like you can't hear it. But once

828
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 5: it stacks on top of other things, it can like

829
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 5: really cause like build up.

830
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 2: They call it, like low frequency build ups.

831
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:37,320
Speaker 5: So a lot of times when working in a digital

832
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 5: audio workstation kind of software, people will roll off the

833
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 5: low low end of a thing, or even microphones will

834
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:45,040
Speaker 5: have a switch on them that's a high pass or

835
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 5: a low cut, which basically just subtracts those sounds even

836
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 5: from the capturing.

837
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 4: And we don't know if elephants are aware of this,

838
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 4: but we do know. Essentially, this is one of the

839
00:46:54,640 --> 00:47:00,319
Speaker 4: big reveals. Elephants have an organic infrasound version of a

840
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 4: group chat thread, and the unaided human cannot hear this,

841
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 4: cannot participate, So you've got to wonder what they talk about.

842
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:13,359
Speaker 4: They may have their own complex proto language, and we

843
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:17,320
Speaker 4: recently discovered that elephants have been trying to quote unquote

844
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 4: talk with humans for a long time, an untold time.

845
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 4: They are capable of what is called goal directed intentionality.

846
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:32,080
Speaker 4: This is why we mentioned the orangutan earlier. Elephants can use,

847
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:37,840
Speaker 4: or have been documented using thirty eight distinct gesture types,

848
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 4: sometimes quite elaborate, to convey their goals and desires to humans.

849
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:46,239
Speaker 4: So we might see a massive breakthrough in human to

850
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:51,360
Speaker 4: elephant communication. We just don't know how complex that hybrid

851
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 4: system may become. Again, love to say it. You meet

852
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:56,160
Speaker 4: people where they're.

853
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:59,799
Speaker 3: At, oh for sure. Well, we also only really get

854
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:02,200
Speaker 3: to hang out with elephants and a lot of these

855
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:04,880
Speaker 3: creatures that we're attempting to study when they're in some

856
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 3: form of captivity, whether that's on a nature preserve, in

857
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:11,439
Speaker 3: a zoo and an aquarium, you know, somewhere where they're

858
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 3: controlled enough so that humans can have that continued interaction

859
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 3: with them. And the big question there is how much

860
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 3: does that affect the stuff they're trying to communicate, right,

861
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:23,440
Speaker 3: or how much does that affect what they're thinking and

862
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:26,920
Speaker 3: feeling when we get into those situations.

863
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, which makes me personally sad that we're not going

864
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:35,360
Speaker 4: to be able to talk about Peter the Dolphin today.

865
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:39,000
Speaker 4: But you can find probably one of the best parables

866
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:43,880
Speaker 4: about that kind of communication wherever in your search browser

867
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:48,080
Speaker 4: of choice. Just look up Peter lsd Dolphin and tell

868
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 4: us your thoughts about that.

869
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 3: Well we can. Well, let's bring it down like it's

870
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 3: It was that situation that we talked about before, right

871
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 3: where there's Dolph. There's a dolphin or dolphins in captivity

872
00:48:58,480 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 3: and some weird stuff happened.

873
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 5: I just remember they're talking about talking animals and pop

874
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:04,560
Speaker 5: culture too, and that showed sequest. They had like a

875
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 5: tank that was fitted with you know, communication translation tools

876
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 5: that allowed them to talk to the dolphin that was

877
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:12,880
Speaker 5: in the on the on the ship.

878
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, so do check out that story.

879
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 4: We we couldn't leave you without a dop citation beat

880
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 4: to step two. So after you're reading about this amazing

881
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:29,320
Speaker 4: story of dolphin communication. Check out the whales. We can't

882
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:33,360
Speaker 4: mention dolphins without mentioning whales, even in twenty twenty five.

883
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:38,240
Speaker 4: They're super mysterious. Now it may ruin your search history

884
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 4: to look up things like sperm whale phonetic alphabet, but

885
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 4: it's gonna be worth it. Whales communicate through what you

886
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:50,680
Speaker 4: could roughly call songs. It's pretty beautiful stuff, but just

887
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:54,960
Speaker 4: like Tom Waits, it's maybe not for everyone, or it's

888
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:56,120
Speaker 4: no square pusher.

889
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 2: It's a little bit slower.

890
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:02,279
Speaker 4: But up until recently, humanity wasn't sure how to classify

891
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 4: whale songs. They've been described as sounding like I'd love

892
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 4: to hear what we think about this, sounding like a

893
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:12,280
Speaker 4: combo of Morse code and popcorn popping.

894
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 3: Yes, it's series of clicks, twenty one different click patterns,

895
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:19,839
Speaker 3: and they call them codas, which was really cool.

896
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:20,359
Speaker 2: I like that.

897
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:24,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, we owe a lot of this to Project SETI,

898
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 4: the Cetacean Translation Initiative. The humans were asking for a

899
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:34,880
Speaker 4: long time. They said, well, are the whales doing the

900
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:38,719
Speaker 4: maritime equivalent of bird vocalizations, which are all pretty much

901
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 4: horning mating calls, territorial remarks, cries of distress. Was there

902
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:46,799
Speaker 4: something more a play? So SETI did this amazing thing.

903
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:50,600
Speaker 4: From two thousand and five to twenty eighteen, they recorded

904
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:55,319
Speaker 4: four hundred different sperm whales, largely in the Caribbean, and

905
00:50:55,640 --> 00:51:01,719
Speaker 4: they leveraged large language models, pattern wreck ignition algorithms, and

906
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:04,799
Speaker 4: they said, oh my gosh, guys, these whales aren't just

907
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:10,319
Speaker 4: mindlessly clicking to pass the time. They have a They

908
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 4: have their own pattern. So maybe we go to the Smithsonian.

909
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:17,800
Speaker 4: The Smithsonian sums this up perfectly. I just love rubato.

910
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 5: Sperm whales rattle off a series of rapid fire clicks

911
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 5: that researchers have named codas. Each coda consists of between

912
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:28,400
Speaker 5: three and forty clicks. In addition to changing the number

913
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:31,880
Speaker 5: of clicks they make in quick succession, whales often speed

914
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:35,440
Speaker 5: up or slow down the tempo of each coda. Researchers

915
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:39,640
Speaker 5: call this rubato. Sometimes they add an extra click at

916
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:42,560
Speaker 5: the end of a coda, which scientists call ornamentation.

917
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:47,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, dude, cool, pretty cool. It is so much like

918
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 3: Morse code. Ben because they also noticed you could. They

919
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:53,719
Speaker 3: will sometimes put a click at the front too, so

920
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:57,919
Speaker 3: depending on who is listening, and then you know who

921
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:01,240
Speaker 3: is sending the message. They will put those on either

922
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:04,520
Speaker 3: end as like that whole you know, what is the

923
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 3: official like ham radio signal when it's like, oh, you

924
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:09,920
Speaker 3: say over when you're done, or you say.

925
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:16,640
Speaker 4: Out when you got a breaker breaker whatever. Yeah, this team,

926
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 4: with the leveraging this LLM model or this algorithmic approach,

927
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 4: they identified at least one hundred and fifty six distinct

928
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 4: CLICKI click codas. And so the current idea or the

929
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:36,960
Speaker 4: dream is that if you add these together and you

930
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:41,560
Speaker 4: create some sort of undersea Rosetta stone, you can find

931
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:45,800
Speaker 4: something very much like language, like these clicks and their pattern,

932
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 4: their cadence may indicate syllables, words, indeed, even concepts and sentences.

933
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:59,080
Speaker 4: Is this language? Is this music? That's one of the

934
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:02,239
Speaker 4: big questions. If we go with the music comparison, then

935
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:08,560
Speaker 4: people would argue this conveys emotion without necessarily conveying specific information.

936
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:11,880
Speaker 3: It's crazy because we know these whales use these types

937
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:14,879
Speaker 3: of codas in communication when they're hunting, right, they use

938
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:17,840
Speaker 3: echolocation to hunt in the same way. If you imagine

939
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:20,719
Speaker 3: a bat, you know, sends out a signal, and the

940
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:23,759
Speaker 3: way it knows where stuff is is by as that

941
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 3: signal returns, it can identify stuff. These whales do that

942
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:29,279
Speaker 3: same thing with these clicks and with some of the

943
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:32,120
Speaker 3: sounds they make. And then they're also clicking to each

944
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:35,720
Speaker 3: other when they're hunting because they don't hunt alone often

945
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:39,280
Speaker 3: they're hunting together at a pod or what is a whale?

946
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:40,480
Speaker 3: A group of whales? Is it a pod?

947
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:41,240
Speaker 2: The same idea?

948
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:45,799
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, so we can understand that stuff. But it's

949
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:49,719
Speaker 3: incredible that you've got a group like this SETI the

950
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:53,719
Speaker 3: what is it cetace Translation initiative, not to be.

951
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:56,880
Speaker 2: Confused with the uh monitoring of space?

952
00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:01,880
Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, although they're doing similar stuff in an interesting

953
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:03,759
Speaker 5: way as above so.

954
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:04,400
Speaker 2: Below, I guess.

955
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:08,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, But just knowing that there's a group out there trying, again,

956
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 3: trying to use AI or something like this in a

957
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:14,120
Speaker 3: large language model type thing for this to then decode

958
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 3: all those things and to be able to understand what

959
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:18,839
Speaker 3: the whales are communicating. Guys, I don't know if there

960
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:22,720
Speaker 3: is a better use of AI out there that's actually

961
00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 3: positive and cool.

962
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:26,440
Speaker 2: Agree, I mean, it's certainly a good one.

963
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:29,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, this is the question. If this is

964
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:34,359
Speaker 4: indeed a language from our cetacean friends, that does mean

965
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:38,160
Speaker 4: logically it can be decoded. That further means that it

966
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:42,239
Speaker 4: would be possible to create a kind of translation process,

967
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:46,000
Speaker 4: meaning that if everything works out, we may be capable

968
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 4: of speak into Wales directly within your lifetime, you specifically

969
00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:53,279
Speaker 4: you as you're listening to this show. And if that

970
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:56,840
Speaker 4: is the case, get ready humanity is going to have

971
00:54:56,880 --> 00:55:00,440
Speaker 4: a lot of explaining to do, especially about the submarine.

972
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:03,160
Speaker 5: But I guess that's the thing, right, Like, even if

973
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:05,920
Speaker 5: we can translator, we can't speak to them. We're not

974
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 5: going to have anything in common. Like how are we

975
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:12,200
Speaker 5: going to bridge their understanding of the natural world like

976
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:14,600
Speaker 5: with ours and all of the terms and stuff. Like

977
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:18,160
Speaker 5: little nature of communication is sort of based on like

978
00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:20,840
Speaker 5: those things being on an equal footing, And I just

979
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:24,799
Speaker 5: don't think they are discovering commonality, right, But maybe that

980
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 5: would allow that to happen.

981
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 2: Maybe that's the thing that's the hope.

982
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:31,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, imagine a world, guys where this goes to its

983
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:35,040
Speaker 3: logical conclusions. And we've got these apps now on our

984
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:37,960
Speaker 3: phone that can both listen to an animal and like

985
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:41,680
Speaker 3: give you a Google translation, right, and then you can

986
00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:45,200
Speaker 3: then type in something and then it spits out whatever

987
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:49,000
Speaker 3: clicks or you know, sounds that could be made and

988
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:52,080
Speaker 3: you can communicate back to that animal. That's incredible. But

989
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:55,480
Speaker 3: then also imagine that you're attempting to talk to creatures

990
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:58,120
Speaker 3: that are living close to humanity in one of our

991
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:00,719
Speaker 3: metropolitan areas. And as you said, like the things we

992
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:02,960
Speaker 3: need to be ready for, ben like what they're going

993
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:06,040
Speaker 3: to be complaining about the stuff that's going on underwater

994
00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:08,439
Speaker 3: If you're talking to a whale. What about you know,

995
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:11,000
Speaker 3: all of the other animals. What about the animals that

996
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:14,520
Speaker 3: we use for food? Right? I mean, what happens when

997
00:56:14,560 --> 00:56:17,480
Speaker 3: we can actually communicate with these animals? And how's that

998
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:21,560
Speaker 3: going to change how we interact and use animal species

999
00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:22,360
Speaker 3: across the board?

1000
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:23,320
Speaker 1: Right?

1001
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:23,839
Speaker 2: Right?

1002
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 4: The human experiment still suffers from the controversial idea of

1003
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:32,080
Speaker 4: Dumbar's number. So what happens if you add billions of

1004
00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:36,880
Speaker 4: other organisms into the mix. This leads us brilliantly and

1005
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:41,360
Speaker 4: terrifyingly to the future, a world of amazing scientific progress

1006
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:44,880
Speaker 4: occurring at a breakneck case, even as the world is

1007
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:50,240
Speaker 4: imperiled by pollution, changing climates, the ever present cartoonish threat

1008
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:55,360
Speaker 4: of civilization ending in war. I love the mention you

1009
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:58,759
Speaker 4: made their matts of the concept of an app. So,

1010
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:02,400
Speaker 4: just like apps that can identify the species of bird

1011
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:06,520
Speaker 4: making a bird song. There are friends at ESP have

1012
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:13,520
Speaker 4: something called nature LM Audio, the first LLLM for animal sounds.

1013
00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:17,400
Speaker 4: And this sounds sounds pretty phenomenal.

1014
00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:19,560
Speaker 2: What you do with it? You're into it?

1015
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:23,120
Speaker 4: Okay, Oh yeah, here's what happens, all right. Lllms are

1016
00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:27,160
Speaker 4: definitely imperfect, but being made by humans who are great

1017
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:34,000
Speaker 4: at recognizing patterns, lms are phenomenal pattern recognition, maybe not

1018
00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 4: so much synthesis, but yeah, now.

1019
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:36,960
Speaker 2: That makes sense.

1020
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:39,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, and if you are looking for some of them,

1021
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:42,480
Speaker 3: like an app like this as we've described today that

1022
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:46,200
Speaker 3: you can just use right now, well, I guess we

1023
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:48,640
Speaker 3: would recommend Merlin, which is a really cool app from

1024
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:52,919
Speaker 3: Cornell Lab, the Cornell Lab of Ornithology. They've got It's

1025
00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:54,520
Speaker 3: one of those things where you take it outside and

1026
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 3: it identifies bird species. Pretty simple but also incredibly complex

1027
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 3: and cool. It's just it's not going to do the

1028
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:05,320
Speaker 3: kind of things that the Earth Species Project is trying

1029
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:08,080
Speaker 3: to do with nature LM. But but it's you know,

1030
00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:10,240
Speaker 3: it's one of those things that's a stepping stone towards

1031
00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:11,040
Speaker 3: that kind of thing.

1032
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:15,520
Speaker 4: And that's the progress. Yeah, the nature LM models, the

1033
00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:19,160
Speaker 4: things powering it. They get fed huge amounts of data

1034
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:23,800
Speaker 4: from patterns of human speech, then music, and then they

1035
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:27,800
Speaker 4: get fed data from recordings and observation of non human animals.

1036
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:32,120
Speaker 4: So yes, bird vocalizations, yes, whale songs, also the behavior

1037
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:35,480
Speaker 4: of jumping spiders. They go pretty fricking deep.

1038
00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:39,640
Speaker 3: Can you imagine it gets confused though, and it starts

1039
00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:42,320
Speaker 3: spitting out stuff like, oh, that is a cardinal and

1040
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:44,280
Speaker 3: it's doing pearl jam.

1041
00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:45,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, crap.

1042
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:48,720
Speaker 4: Well, another precedent for this would go would be go

1043
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:54,880
Speaker 4: to Google Translate, say something that is universal, like excuse me,

1044
00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:58,400
Speaker 4: may I please have a casadia? Write that in English,

1045
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:02,680
Speaker 4: translate it to Japanese, translate it to German, and then

1046
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:06,000
Speaker 4: translate that phrase back to English. So is there a

1047
00:59:06,040 --> 00:59:10,240
Speaker 4: world where is there a world where we can have

1048
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:15,440
Speaker 4: a whale and a crow make a podcast? What's their

1049
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 4: podcast about? Your sky is My Sea?

1050
00:59:17,920 --> 00:59:19,000
Speaker 2: Or c is My Sky?

1051
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:22,920
Speaker 3: Oh dude, well, you know, nature LM Audio is supposed

1052
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:25,080
Speaker 3: to come out this year, sometime in twenty twenty five.

1053
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:27,080
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go ahead and say it's probably gonna be

1054
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:29,080
Speaker 3: next year or in the year after that, But they're

1055
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 3: doing their best to get it out this year, all

1056
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:32,160
Speaker 3: the good folks over there.

1057
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:36,240
Speaker 4: The only deadline is the end of the world, right, Hey.

1058
00:59:36,080 --> 00:59:39,160
Speaker 3: And we have two thousand days according to some experts,

1059
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:42,000
Speaker 3: until the whole what do they call that thing, the

1060
00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:43,240
Speaker 3: singularity occurs.

1061
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:46,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a good run, you know what I mean?

1062
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:47,800
Speaker 3: We did okay?

1063
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:51,880
Speaker 4: So yeah, humanity three out of five? So how do

1064
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:56,240
Speaker 4: we feel though about an ad driven Doctor Doolittle world?

1065
00:59:57,080 --> 00:59:57,280
Speaker 2: Right?

1066
00:59:57,440 --> 01:00:01,360
Speaker 4: Is it possible that this and similar initiatives might just

1067
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:05,480
Speaker 4: like a not quite ethical un translator? Is it possible

1068
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:10,880
Speaker 4: apps like this might squeeze in some concepts that humans

1069
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:13,720
Speaker 4: don't clock, you know what I mean? Like one day

1070
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:17,120
Speaker 4: you're using this technology to interact with your local tiger

1071
01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:22,520
Speaker 4: and the LM accidentally or by design, inserts communication that

1072
01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:25,200
Speaker 4: you have neither consented to nor agreed with.

1073
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:29,320
Speaker 3: Dude, you got blue jays out there doing ads for

1074
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:32,080
Speaker 3: wild harvest universal blend bird seed.

1075
01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:36,920
Speaker 4: Exactly, and they're and you know how stupid will this

1076
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:37,680
Speaker 4: make humans?

1077
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:37,959
Speaker 2: Look?

1078
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:41,320
Speaker 4: You think you're saying, whoa, what's it like to fly?

1079
01:00:41,840 --> 01:00:45,640
Speaker 4: Why are you so pissed at ravens or pissed at owls?

1080
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:50,760
Speaker 4: And instead what they're hearing. Are those questions interspersed by ads?

1081
01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:56,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, subscribe to Hulu today exactly.

1082
01:00:57,320 --> 01:01:00,360
Speaker 5: A thing of the past. It's getting subsumed by Disney Plus.

1083
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:02,800
Speaker 5: Or maybe it's Disney Plus is getting subsumed by Hulu.

1084
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:03,440
Speaker 5: I forget.

1085
01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:08,160
Speaker 2: It's so hard to keep trying. It is one way

1086
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:10,360
Speaker 2: or the other. It's definitely like either. Hulu's going away.

1087
01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:12,520
Speaker 5: Disney Plus was kind of considered to be a bit

1088
01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:15,120
Speaker 5: of a flop, and they own so much IP that

1089
01:01:15,160 --> 01:01:17,760
Speaker 5: they're gonna like smush it all together and call it

1090
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:18,320
Speaker 5: something else.

1091
01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:22,320
Speaker 4: They need to make Disney for the animals, you know

1092
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:25,360
Speaker 4: what I mean that that's the next step.

1093
01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:27,640
Speaker 2: Maybe Hulu is getting integrated and it Disney.

1094
01:01:27,680 --> 01:01:31,520
Speaker 4: That makes way more sense because the krill doesn't eat

1095
01:01:31,520 --> 01:01:36,880
Speaker 4: the whale. But the thing is, maybe humans can't yet

1096
01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:40,040
Speaker 4: talk to non humans in the same way humans like

1097
01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:42,520
Speaker 4: to talk to each other, or at the same level.

1098
01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:45,240
Speaker 4: But that might be set to change and sooner than

1099
01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:49,400
Speaker 4: we think. So with this, guys, fair to say we

1100
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:54,640
Speaker 4: cannot wait to hear other animal's favorite conspiracy theories. Do

1101
01:01:54,680 --> 01:01:58,960
Speaker 4: you imagine talking to an octopus? The translation works and

1102
01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:01,919
Speaker 4: you're like, hey, man, what's the stuff they don't want

1103
01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:04,040
Speaker 4: you to know down there in the deep.

1104
01:02:05,880 --> 01:02:07,840
Speaker 3: Don't get me started and wrong.

1105
01:02:10,760 --> 01:02:14,520
Speaker 5: Exactly people, right, have you all seen in your Naked

1106
01:02:14,560 --> 01:02:15,800
Speaker 5: Gun movie, by the way.

1107
01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:19,880
Speaker 2: I have not. It's hilarious. It's like just joke, joke, joke, joke, joke, joke, joke.

1108
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:21,840
Speaker 5: And there's this one bit in a meeting, like a

1109
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:24,160
Speaker 5: joke like kind of like a boardroom meeting where someone

1110
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:25,360
Speaker 5: just keeps talking about.

1111
01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:27,840
Speaker 2: Fish people and I love it. It's hilarious.

1112
01:02:28,280 --> 01:02:32,640
Speaker 4: Speaking of density of writing, I started rewatching thirty Rock

1113
01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:37,080
Speaker 4: saying it's just a banger, uh stem distern. So shout

1114
01:02:37,120 --> 01:02:39,160
Speaker 4: out to the writers on that one. Shout out to

1115
01:02:39,160 --> 01:02:42,560
Speaker 4: the legendary Tina Fey, Shout out to you folks for

1116
01:02:42,720 --> 01:02:46,640
Speaker 4: tuning in human non human animal alike. We'd love to

1117
01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:49,720
Speaker 4: hear your thoughts. Please join us later on in a

1118
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:54,640
Speaker 4: few days as we're continuing our AI exploration with the

1119
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:59,480
Speaker 4: role of government and a I. You can drop us

1120
01:02:59,480 --> 01:03:01,080
Speaker 4: an email all the time, and you can call us

1121
01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:02,920
Speaker 4: on the phone and you can find us on the lines.

1122
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:03,360
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1123
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:06,040
Speaker 5: Also, Taco Bell and AI just I was sorry, I

1124
01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:07,880
Speaker 5: was just looking at BBC in this headline.

1125
01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:08,720
Speaker 2: I think it's hilarious.

1126
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:12,160
Speaker 5: Taco bell rethinks AI drive through after man orders eighteen

1127
01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:13,200
Speaker 5: thousand waters.

1128
01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:17,040
Speaker 2: I want to know more. Sorry I had to bring

1129
01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:17,360
Speaker 2: it up.

1130
01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:19,240
Speaker 5: You can find this in the antic conspiracy stuff where

1131
01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:21,440
Speaker 5: we exist on Facebook with our Facebook group. Here's where

1132
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:24,440
Speaker 5: it gets crazy, on x FKA, Twitter, and on YouTube

1133
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:28,320
Speaker 5: with video content for you to peruse and enjoy. On

1134
01:03:28,360 --> 01:03:31,040
Speaker 5: Instagram and TikTok or conspiracy Stuff show and there's more.

1135
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:36,360
Speaker 3: Sorry, sir, we don't have that much water. You could

1136
01:03:36,360 --> 01:03:41,320
Speaker 3: call our number. It is one eight three three std WYTK.

1137
01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:44,640
Speaker 3: It's a voicemail system. When you call in, give yourself

1138
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:49,080
Speaker 3: a cool nickname like Akiva Daniel Shabbar Shaffer. That's a

1139
01:03:49,080 --> 01:03:50,960
Speaker 3: great nickname. Let us know if we can use your

1140
01:03:51,040 --> 01:03:53,280
Speaker 3: name and message on the air. Within the message, and

1141
01:03:53,360 --> 01:03:54,840
Speaker 3: if you got more to say, if you got I

1142
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:59,240
Speaker 3: don't know, links, maybe attachments, anything you want. Just use

1143
01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:05,040
Speaker 3: your mind and then translate that into an email. We are.

1144
01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:29,640
Speaker 4: Here in the dark conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1145
01:04:29,760 --> 01:04:31,800
Speaker 3: Stuff they Don't Want you to Know is a production

1146
01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:36,439
Speaker 3: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1147
01:04:36,520 --> 01:04:39,400
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.