1 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: Get in touch with technology with tech Stuff from how 2 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. 3 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 1: I am your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer 4 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: at how Stuff Works in a love all things tech, 5 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: and it's time for another classic episode of tech Stuff. 6 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: The episode you are about to hear originally published on 7 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: June six, two thousand twelve. A two thousand and twelve. 8 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 1: Do you remember how bride eyed and innocent we were 9 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:38,239 Speaker 1: back then? Well, this particular classic episode is called the 10 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 1: m m O RPG Story, the massively multiplayer online role 11 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: playing game story, which granted has changed a lot since 12 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: two thousand twelve. There were games that have come out 13 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: since then that we don't go into in this episode 14 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: because we weren't able to look into the future. But 15 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: we do look at the origins of the m m 16 00:00:57,400 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: O RPG. Where did it come from and how did 17 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 1: it volve? And when I say we, I mean me 18 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:06,680 Speaker 1: and my original co host Chris Pallette. So sit back, relax, 19 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 1: and enjoy this classic episode. So we are today going 20 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: to talk about the history of massively multiplayer online role 21 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: playing games, and it all actually stems back to what 22 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 1: I was just alluding to and all of you guys 23 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:25,759 Speaker 1: out there who are big D n D fans picked 24 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: up on it. I'm sure immediately we're talking about dudgeons 25 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: and dragons, and it's important to talk about dungeons and 26 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 1: dragons first to understand why M m O RPGs exist 27 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:40,039 Speaker 1: at all. Yeah, and now there were some computer role 28 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: playing games, but they weren't like what we think of 29 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 1: today and then and really they came around right about 30 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: the same time as D and D took off. So 31 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 1: let's let's start with um, let's start with D and 32 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: D first of all to kind of explain what's going on. 33 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: So we're not we're not even talking about D n 34 00:01:56,520 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 1: D online. We're actually talking about specifically about the pencil 35 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: and paper and dice and all that jazz game screens, 36 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: et cetera. So back in nineteen uh, there were some 37 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:13,919 Speaker 1: some some guys who had created a war game, a 38 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 1: miniature's war game called chain Mail. All right, now, war 39 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 1: games are they've been around for a while, right, Yeah. 40 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: It's where you essentially have uh, figures that represent military units, 41 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,519 Speaker 1: or you might even have what they used to call chits, 42 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: those little pieces of cardboard they had the little number 43 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: they kind of look like, Um, if you haven't seen 44 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 1: these old style things, they actually sort of look like 45 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 1: the periodic table. They have the picture of your unit 46 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: and how many hit points it has and all that stuff. Right, 47 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 1: So the ideas that you would try and uh out 48 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 1: strategicize your opponent playing on a map, and the map 49 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: might have even topographical elements that would indicate how you 50 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:55,959 Speaker 1: might have an advantage or disadvantage in a given situation, 51 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 1: depending upon your unit and where your enemy is located. Right, 52 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: And anyway, the whole game was this idea of you know, 53 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 1: matching wits against an opponent. Well, chain Mail kind of 54 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: brought that down a little bit. Chain Mail was an 55 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: idea of using smaller units in very specific circumstances, like 56 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: say in castle or a dungeon. But then the game creators, 57 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 1: among them a certain Gary Gygax, I feel like I've 58 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: heard that name before, uh, decided that what if we 59 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: were to to to change this So instead of playing 60 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 1: you know, controlling units, you control a specific character, someone 61 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: who has a personality of background, UH, goals, motivations. UH. 62 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 1: They have their own abilities and their own disadvantages, and 63 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 1: you were to take on this role within an adventure, 64 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 1: and that was the where the whole role playing game 65 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 1: idea kind of spawned out of. You would have someone 66 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 1: who was in charge of explaining all the environments and 67 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 1: taking care of all the game mechanics on the back end. 68 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 1: That would be the dungeon master or a master. And 69 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: then the players would each control a character and would 70 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 1: try and pursue certain goals dependent upon the game itself 71 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: and that character's personality. And this was kind of a 72 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 1: radical idea at the time, back in nineteen seventy four, 73 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: and uh it called I could I guess you could 74 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:25,159 Speaker 1: say it was a popular idea, particularly among high school 75 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 1: and college students. Now, your characters when you when you 76 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:33,720 Speaker 1: first started there, there are some elements of chance involved here. Um. 77 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 1: When you first create your character, uh, you roll the 78 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: dice to determine what the character's characteristics are. Their attributes. Yeah, like, um, 79 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 1: for example, of strength, how strong that person is, or 80 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: or how much dexterity that person has the ability to 81 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: get out of the way when somebody's swinging an axe 82 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 1: at their head. Um. Now, I haven't played D and 83 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:55,599 Speaker 1: D for about twenty years, but I remember that it 84 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 1: used to range between three and eighteen for normal characters. Yes, 85 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:01,919 Speaker 1: because you roll three see six sided die. Um, the 86 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 1: thing is um with the uh uh you know that 87 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: that's one aspect of it too. But the the dungeon 88 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 1: master or game master would use a screen to hide 89 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:14,840 Speaker 1: the dungeon or whatever it is that you were going 90 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: and venturing in, so you didn't really know. Unlike those 91 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:19,479 Speaker 1: other games where you could see there were mountains ahead 92 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 1: of your characters, you could go around the mountains when 93 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:27,720 Speaker 1: you came, Um, you'll be riding six white horses. But meanwhile, UM, 94 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 1: in a dungeon and in D and D, you didn't 95 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 1: necessarily know. And this is the difference in a role 96 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: playing game and those other games. You are actually pretending 97 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: to be you know this character, so U one of 98 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: the first things I had to learn, and I when 99 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 1: I started playing D n D, I was I think 100 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: eight years old or nine years old. Um, you had 101 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: to learn that you can't see what's going on, so 102 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: you have to remember to ask what do I see? 103 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:53,039 Speaker 1: What do I hear? You know, and the dungeon master 104 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: might not necessarily tell you hear the click of a 105 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: trap unless you ask, like, well, you just heard a 106 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 1: clicking noise? Oh right, that clicking noises in D and 107 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 1: D were never a good thing. Um. But you also 108 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 1: you also had different play styles, right. You had people 109 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: who would play very achievement oriented, right. They wanted to 110 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: they wanted to get whatever the goal was, and it 111 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 1: was less about the experience of being a character. Uh. 112 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: And then you had people who really kind of embraced 113 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: the idea of role playing being someone else and to 114 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: really kind of try and drive that aspect more than 115 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: the rules necessarily. So you you kind of had these 116 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: two types subcategories of players rule rule players that were 117 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 1: all about the statistics and and getting the good roles 118 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 1: and getting the best equipment for their character because it 119 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 1: would guarantee their success that kind of thing, and role 120 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,600 Speaker 1: players who are more interested in the personality aspects. Most 121 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 1: most players fall somewhere within that spectrum between those two. 122 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 1: Same thing holds true by the way of m m 123 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 1: O RPGs. So the only reason I even mentioned all 124 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 1: of that is so that we have the foundation to 125 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 1: build upon, so that we understand once we get into 126 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: m m O RPGs why they're a big deal. Well, 127 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:13,559 Speaker 1: computer role playing games have been around, like I said, 128 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: about as long as uh, Dungeons and Dragons have because 129 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: that was they sort of went around at um and 130 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 1: the rise of personal computers on the desktop, uh right, 131 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: right about the same time that the mid to late seventies, 132 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: and they got popular in high schools and colleges, which 133 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 1: were breeding grounds not just for role playing games but 134 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: for computer sciences. Yes, yes, that's true. Uh. The thing is, 135 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 1: one of the reasons that that Dungeons and Dragons and 136 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: other role playing games took off was because it gave 137 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: you an opportunity to play a game with your friends. 138 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 1: You weren't sitting at home on one machine interacting with 139 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: the game on the machine. I mean that was fun too. 140 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 1: I like playing uh those games by myself. Also, we 141 00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: usually call those c RPGs computer role playing games that 142 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: don't necessarily have a multiplayer element to them, right, but 143 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: but the multiplayer games, both on paper and and computers, 144 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: give you an opportunity to uh go through the experience 145 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: with other people and which which can be fun because 146 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 1: you never know what those other people are are going 147 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 1: to do. And it also gives you this feeling of camaraderie. 148 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 1: It's pre decor if you will, and and depending upon 149 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: the game, it may allow certain players to band together 150 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:33,200 Speaker 1: and oppose other players, So you can even have elements 151 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 1: within the game where you've got a struggle between two 152 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 1: groups of players. And if the game is designed properly, 153 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 1: meaning that it's you know, a dynamic element to it, 154 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:47,079 Speaker 1: you might even be able to have players actually influence 155 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: the course of the game's world, which is pretty tricky 156 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 1: because you know, that's a very delicate balance to to 157 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 1: create when you are a developer. You don't want to 158 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 1: make it so easy to affect the game's world that 159 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 1: it is uh uh that that one group of players 160 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: essentially dominates and makes all the determinations of where the 161 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 1: game's world is going. At the same time, you don't 162 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 1: want it to be so static that it feels like 163 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 1: no matter what you do, you don't influence the outcome. 164 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 1: It's a really tricky balance. Well, I would I would 165 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 1: argue that one of the things that makes UH online 166 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: role playing games so much fun UH is not necessarily 167 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 1: the high graphics elements. I think the the the element 168 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 1: of play is most important. That's one of the things. 169 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 1: I mean, you don't see these things, these fantastic UH 170 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:41,960 Speaker 1: animations of spells and and UH sword play and whatever 171 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,079 Speaker 1: else that you might happen to be engaged in when 172 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 1: you're playing a tabletop role playing game, because imagine it. 173 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 1: What imagine it? It's this thing that we used to 174 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: do before there was the internet. Well, I I do 175 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: love looking at the amazing graphics work of some of 176 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 1: these game studios now. But um, you know, the very 177 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:05,199 Speaker 1: first online role playing games were text based. Yeah, in fact, 178 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:07,680 Speaker 1: we can talk a little bit about them. First of all, 179 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 1: I wanna define a couple of terms for the very 180 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: earliest games. Some of them were built on something called PLATO, 181 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:21,199 Speaker 1: which is an acronym for Programmed Logic for Automated Teaching Operations. 182 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: Here's the funny thing, bit Sucker pre dates pretty much 183 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 1: all of this stuff that we're talking. Plato actually came 184 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: out before D and D the tabletop game came out 185 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 1: early sixties actually. But but PLATO was all about It 186 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: was supposed to be an educational platform, which of course 187 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: meant that students immediately figured out ways to play games 188 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 1: on it, and uh like almost immediately. This is for education. 189 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 1: I want to kill stuff. So, um, the University of 190 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 1: Illinois built programmed Logic for Automated Teaching operations. So it's 191 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: a platform that could run on networked computers. Now these 192 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 1: computers are networked to one another, they are not networked 193 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:02,839 Speaker 1: into a large your network think land Party, not the Internet, right, 194 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 1: and uh, immediately you had students start to figure out 195 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: ways to create games because it meant that they could 196 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:13,199 Speaker 1: link it to other students and have a social experience 197 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 1: on a computer, which just shows you that, you know, 198 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: we are very social creatures. The you know, the first 199 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:21,719 Speaker 1: thing we start looking at is how can we use 200 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,680 Speaker 1: this machine to connect to other people? So that's one 201 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 1: acronym you need to know. Another one is MUD, which 202 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 1: stands for multi user dungeons, not not what happens when 203 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 1: you add water to earth um which just makes me 204 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: almost go off on a brack tangent. But I'm not 205 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: going to what happened to the water? Uh? So, Also 206 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 1: with mud come a couple of other um uh topics, 207 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:53,080 Speaker 1: or a couple other acronyms, move and mush. Have you 208 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: heard about those? So a move is a move is 209 00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: an acronym that has an acronym in it because moves 210 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:06,679 Speaker 1: to is for mud object oriented. MUSH stands for mud users, 211 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 1: Shared hallucination or shared hack or shared habitat or shared holiday. 212 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 1: It really depends on who you ask. They're all pretty similar. 213 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 1: But but these are basically the frameworks within which people 214 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 1: built games. Now, back in n there was a game 215 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:28,560 Speaker 1: that came out called Colossal Cave Adventure sometimes just called 216 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 1: Adventure by William Crowther and it was a single player 217 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: text based game, but it was what created the foundation 218 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:40,440 Speaker 1: for some of the multi user games that came after it. 219 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: UH In ninety seven and published in seventy eight, a 220 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 1: game called Maria came out, and now Maria was built 221 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: on top of Plato. There were other games that came 222 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 1: out before Maria, but Maria is one of the more 223 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 1: famous ones, and it allowed up to ten players to 224 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: get together in a party and go on a dungeon 225 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 1: crawling adventure UH. And it was created with these these 226 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: very simple vector graphics like a um. You know, you 227 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: see like the green wall with a green door outline 228 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:14,680 Speaker 1: on it, and you would push a command that would 229 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: knock the door open and then you might have an 230 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 1: encounter afterward, you might find treasure, that kind of stuff. 231 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,199 Speaker 1: The interesting thing about it was not only did it 232 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: allow up to tend people to play that that itself 233 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:29,680 Speaker 1: was interesting but it also created the dungeons um every 234 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 1: time you played, so the dungeons were not pre generated. 235 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: They generated dynamically when you would play the game, so 236 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 1: you would never necessarily have the same experience twice because 237 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 1: the dungeon would be randomly created when you started. UM 238 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:47,959 Speaker 1: and uh. So that that was sort of an early 239 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 1: example of how people were trying to kind of port 240 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 1: the experience of playing Dungeons and Dragons or a game 241 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: like D and D to a computer environment and not 242 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 1: have it be a single player playing with computer generated characters, 243 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 1: although there are plenty of examples of that as well. 244 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 1: UM and Then in nineteen seventy eight, a fellow named 245 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: Roy trub Shaw created the very first multi user dungeon 246 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 1: and it was called Mud. That's why we call them 247 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: MUDs because he made it. It was he was in 248 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 1: Essex University, and so mud became the generic term for 249 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 1: games that were built in this way. UM and it 250 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: became very very popular. And then eventually again these were 251 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 1: on network computers. There was no Internet yet, but Trubshaw 252 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 1: connected his game to the ARPA net in nineteen eighty, 253 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 1: so suddenly you had essentially the ancestor to massively multiplayer 254 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: online role playing games because it made it gave access 255 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 1: to people beyond just folks who had uh the access 256 00:14:56,280 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: to those specific computers within Essex University to play. Yeah. 257 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 1: My my notes have the game down as being called 258 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: Dungeon d U N G E N. Yeah, I have 259 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 1: it as it was called multi user Dungeon. Yeah. So yeah, yeah, 260 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: but by the same same thing. I mean, that's that 261 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 1: is where mud came from. They probably, I'm sure it 262 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: was called dungeon, just as uh for shorthand the next 263 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 1: one I have doesn't pop up till do you have 264 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 1: anything you wanted to mention before I go to that? Okay, 265 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: So in the University of Virginia there were a couple 266 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: of classmates, John Taylor and Kelton Flynn, and they created 267 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: a game called The Dungeons of Kezm which was a 268 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: six player game and it was also inspired by duchess 269 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 1: and dragons and it used as key graphics to represent 270 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: elements of the game. Yeah. Yeah, it's making me think 271 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: of some of the old games I used to play. 272 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: And they also founded a company in eighty two called 273 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 1: the Kezmi Company. A few years later they I'll mention 274 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 1: it when it happens, but they would come up with 275 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: another game that would be UH kind of a big 276 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: influence on online role playing games in the future. UH. 277 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,359 Speaker 1: In any four, you had a fellow named Mark Peterson 278 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 1: who wrote The Realm of ang Mar and UH. It 279 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: was originally a kind of an offshoot of another game 280 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: called The Scepter of Goth and UH. In ninety four 281 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: Peterson rewrote it and adapted it for MS DOSS, which 282 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 1: I don't know how many of you guys remember MS DOSS. 283 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 1: That's pre windows Um, but that was the that formed 284 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: the basis of a game that ended up being found 285 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 1: on a lot of Bolton Board systems. So if you 286 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: guys heard our episode about bbs is, you know that 287 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 1: there used to be these communities. Still aren't in many cases, 288 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: but there were these communities that were housed on individual, 289 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 1: private individuals computers, although you could also have companies that 290 00:16:57,600 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 1: do this too, But you could have a private end 291 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: visual who would open up their computer to allow other 292 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: people to dial into their computer to access files and 293 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 1: play games. This is one of the games that was 294 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:12,399 Speaker 1: found on a lot of bbs is. And if the 295 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 1: bbs would allow multiple people to call in at once, 296 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 1: if they had multiple lines that would allow for that. 297 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 1: Then you can have people play this game simultaneously. Um. 298 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 1: And in eight five you had the introduction of Mirror World, 299 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 1: which was a multi user dungeon that could be run 300 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: on a home computer as opposed to some you know, 301 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:38,439 Speaker 1: research institution or university's computer. Yeah. I remember the modem 302 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 1: speeds back then. That was yeah, yeah, I've got an 303 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:48,120 Speaker 1: interesting thing to mentioned in about that. Five was also 304 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 1: the year that the Kezmi Corporation came out with Island 305 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:55,439 Speaker 1: of Kezmi, which again Kelton Flynn and John Taylor, and 306 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,879 Speaker 1: this ran on compu Serve. Yeah, I've heard of them. Yeah. 307 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: So it was the first commercial multiplayer online role playing game. 308 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,440 Speaker 1: I don't think you could call it massive because it 309 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 1: had a limit to how many players could play one, 310 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,680 Speaker 1: no more than one. Compared compared to the earlier games, 311 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:16,120 Speaker 1: that's pretty massive. Yeah, compared to you know, the old 312 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: the older Kids My game where six people could play, 313 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 1: or even the the ten player Maria game, it's you know, 314 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 1: it's I think it's almost ten times that. Wow. So 315 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: I'm not that stupid people, almost but not quite. An 316 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:38,920 Speaker 1: interesting game comes out interesting for a couple of reasons, because, 317 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:41,120 Speaker 1: for one thing, you can confuse it with another game 318 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:45,160 Speaker 1: by the same name, Never Winter Nights by Don Daglo 319 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 1: and Catherine Mattega comes out has no connection at all 320 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 1: to the Never Winter Nights game that came out by BioWare. 321 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: But this game ran on A O L. And I've 322 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,680 Speaker 1: heard of it. I used that joke already. They and 323 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: A O L used a an interesting pricing mechanism. So 324 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 1: this is a commercial game. You had to pay to play, 325 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:08,120 Speaker 1: and the way it worked was that you would pay 326 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,880 Speaker 1: six dollars an hour to play this game at three 327 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 1: hundred bawd. And when we were talking hours, that's about 328 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 1: how long it would take to loads to make a move. Uh. 329 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 1: For twelve dollars an hour, you can play at twelve bad. Hey, 330 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: that's just screaming fast, right, good, it's screaming all right. 331 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 1: I don't know if it's streaming fast. And this was 332 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:35,880 Speaker 1: the first graphics based M M O RPG. Uh. Now, 333 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:38,159 Speaker 1: do you have any you want to mention at all 334 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 1: before we get to ninety, because then I've got the biggie. Well. 335 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:44,919 Speaker 1: I figured that we were going to talk about the 336 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 1: the Ultimate series of games because they were important for 337 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 1: the role playing game world. But they weren't massively multiplayer, 338 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 1: right and that yes, that will definitely lead into a 339 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:59,399 Speaker 1: very important discussion. So Ultima. While while we've got this 340 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,640 Speaker 1: development over here with the multi user games, there's still 341 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:05,359 Speaker 1: quite a bit of work being done in single player 342 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: computer role playing games. Oh absolutely, they were huge and 343 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: one of the one of the people who was really 344 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:15,120 Speaker 1: spiritheading this movement. We've actually we did an entire episode 345 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 1: on him, Richard Garriott, the Lord British of the Ultimate Series. 346 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 1: He founded the Ultimate Series. First game was Al Kalabeth, 347 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: which then eventually of which he was in college at 348 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: the time. Yeah. Yeah, and uh, he actually dropped out 349 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 1: of college because his computer game business took off so well. 350 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: His dad, by the way, astronaut. Yes, dad's an astronaut. 351 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:43,920 Speaker 1: He jumps out of college, makes millions of dollars. But yeah, 352 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,160 Speaker 1: they were he was working with. Don't take that as 353 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:49,119 Speaker 1: a lesson, kids, I'm not saying drop out of college. 354 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 1: Your mileage may very Yes. Um, yeah, he was talking 355 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: in one about the possibility of an online version of Ultima. Yeah. Now, 356 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 1: all Tima was a series that he created after his 357 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 1: first success in computer role playing games, and then Ultima UH. 358 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 1: The original Ultimate games were kind of your standard hack 359 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,879 Speaker 1: and slash RPG type games where you took on the 360 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 1: role of a character and tried to defeat some sort 361 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 1: of massively evil villain. But after Ultima three UH, Richard 362 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:26,719 Speaker 1: Garriott took an interesting turn. He really began to do 363 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,439 Speaker 1: something new with computer role playing games. He created the 364 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: concept of UH. Well it didn't create the concept, but 365 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 1: he incorporated the concept of morality and how your choices 366 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 1: can affect gameplay and UH. In Ultima four, you took 367 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:45,359 Speaker 1: on the role of a character called the Avatar, who 368 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:49,679 Speaker 1: was supposed to be the exemplification of all the best 369 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:54,160 Speaker 1: traits in the world. He was supposed to be the 370 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 1: the paragon of virtue. And if you, um, if you 371 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,959 Speaker 1: played like a nasty person and you know, stule stuff, 372 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 1: and you killed innocence, you could not win the game. 373 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:05,920 Speaker 1: It was impossible to win the game because in order 374 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:07,399 Speaker 1: to win the game you had to make lots of 375 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:12,880 Speaker 1: sacrifices and and be virtuous UH. And then this sort 376 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,119 Speaker 1: of gave a real shot in the arm to his series. 377 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 1: I mean, it was already popular, but then it became 378 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:24,400 Speaker 1: crazy popular, and so he continued to develop the games, 379 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:32,920 Speaker 1: and as the multi user craze continued with fairly primitive 380 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:37,639 Speaker 1: games compared to some of the the standalone games on computers, 381 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,400 Speaker 1: he began to turn his eye towards developing an online 382 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:45,360 Speaker 1: version of This Ultimate World. Now. In the meantime, just 383 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:49,439 Speaker 1: before this, well while this, this whole plan for an 384 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,200 Speaker 1: online version of Ultima was in the earliest development phases, 385 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:57,359 Speaker 1: another game in nineties six came out called Meridian fifty nine, 386 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:01,119 Speaker 1: and that was developed by a company called Radio, which 387 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 1: no longer exists. Um, they were, They were something of 388 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 1: an innovator for their time. Yes, um, but if you've 389 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 1: never heard of them, and it's because they've been closed 390 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,399 Speaker 1: for for quite a while. It's one of the first 391 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 1: massively multiplayer online role playing games ever released by a 392 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 1: major publisher, and and a lot of the things that 393 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 1: we associate with m m O RPGs began with this game. 394 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,120 Speaker 1: For one, it had a monthly subscription for a flat rate, 395 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:29,880 Speaker 1: so you would pay us a flat rate each month 396 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 1: to play. It had a three D first person view 397 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,880 Speaker 1: of the world in a fantasy setting, and uh not all. 398 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,359 Speaker 1: In fact, a lot of m m O RPGs do 399 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,919 Speaker 1: not take the first person views. Several of them take 400 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 1: a third person view where you're either behind or or 401 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 1: over the character you're playing. Um, but U three d 402 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,199 Speaker 1: O ran this game, but then it shut down. The 403 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 1: three d O shutdown in two thousand three. It ceased 404 00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 1: to be actually they closed the game on August thirty, 405 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,959 Speaker 1: first of two. From what I have, yeah, well the 406 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 1: game itself still continued because what happened was in February 407 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:12,199 Speaker 1: Meridian fifty nine was turned over to the original technical developers, 408 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 1: which were a couple of brothers who have opened the 409 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 1: game to the public for no charge to the player. 410 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 1: So there it's running on two servers in the United States. 411 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: But yeah, I love the name of the company though, 412 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 1: Near Death Studios. Yeah, it's it's just as the game 413 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:36,720 Speaker 1: is when it's running on two servers. Yeah, but it's 414 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 1: but it's interesting that it's still you know, this shows 415 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,119 Speaker 1: that the people who adopt these games can be very passionate, 416 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 1: and even when a studio itself is in financial trouble, 417 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: people want those games to continue, which is somewhat problematic 418 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:55,919 Speaker 1: because how do you keep this going when the in 419 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: order to run the game, you actually do have to 420 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 1: spend real money because you're about electricity costs, you're talking 421 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 1: about server costs, you're talking about you know, you might 422 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 1: have to have space for that machine. It's uh, it's tough. 423 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 1: And UM that's not the only time that has happened 424 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 1: by log shot. But so at that same time, Richard 425 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,160 Speaker 1: Garriott and the folks over at Origin and later Electronic 426 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 1: Cards were working on Ultimate Online. Yeah. Ultimate Online was 427 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,639 Speaker 1: apparently originally supposed to go on. Now, keeping in mind 428 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:31,199 Speaker 1: the time frame we were originally talking about for that 429 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,440 Speaker 1: when I met when I brought it up, we were 430 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 1: very much in the online service provider world and Sierra 431 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 1: had its own network it was working on, but they 432 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:44,959 Speaker 1: ended up shutting it down. Um, and Ultimate Online became 433 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:50,640 Speaker 1: a an Internet m M RPG, which UH was probably 434 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,560 Speaker 1: better for uh for everyone involved, because it gave you 435 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 1: a much wider audience. I got to actually see this 436 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,080 Speaker 1: game and action when it was in its alf A 437 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: build before it even opened up to the beta world. Uh. 438 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 1: And UH because um, Richard Garrett came down to a 439 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,399 Speaker 1: science fiction convention that I go to a lot, Dragon 440 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 1: Con in Atlanta. So Richard Garrett used to be a 441 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,399 Speaker 1: very frequent guest a dragon Con, and in fact he 442 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: and I kind of struck up a bit of a 443 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 1: friendship and we would chat about the games and stuff, 444 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 1: and he would show me the games that were in development, 445 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,200 Speaker 1: including Ultimate Online, and it was really a neat thing. 446 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: It was a it was a kind of a new idea. 447 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,440 Speaker 1: It was building on that work that other people have 448 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: done in in previous generations of multi user dungeons, but 449 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 1: on a huge scale, and also created a much more 450 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:41,439 Speaker 1: dynamic world. So Ultimate Online had a world where, in 451 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 1: theory anyway, you had ecosystems that could actually be affected 452 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,679 Speaker 1: by player behavior. So, for example, let's say that you 453 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: are in a forest and you decide one day that 454 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: you are the bunny slayer, and you go on a 455 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 1: bunny slaying rampage and you hack can slash every bunny 456 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,400 Speaker 1: you can find. Well, there's a limited number of bunnies 457 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,399 Speaker 1: for a given amount of time, and as you start 458 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:09,679 Speaker 1: slaying these bunnies, there are other consequences. For example, there 459 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 1: are also wolves in the forest, and now all the 460 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: bunnies are gone, which means that the food source for 461 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:17,919 Speaker 1: the wolves are gone. You know, they no longer have 462 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: their normal food source, so they might actually venture out 463 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,399 Speaker 1: of the forest and start to attack villagers. So you 464 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 1: could actually, inadvertently, while slaying bunnies, as any good hero 465 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:32,879 Speaker 1: would want to do, bring terror and and and hardship 466 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:38,159 Speaker 1: upon a village because these wolves are now attacking people. Uh. 467 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 1: On the flip side, if you were you know, Wolf's Bane, 468 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:43,919 Speaker 1: and you were going out into the woods to slay 469 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 1: every single wolf you saw, the bunny population might explode. 470 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 1: And bunnies are everywhere almost like triples. Yeah, that's just 471 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 1: a small example of what was dynamically supposed to happen 472 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:01,120 Speaker 1: in the world. Uh. And and to some degree it 473 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,119 Speaker 1: did work like that, although there were definitely some issues 474 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 1: as well. It didn't always work exactly the way people 475 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:12,879 Speaker 1: had planned. And also player behavior really really changed that 476 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 1: world quite a bit. Yeah. If you, uh, if you've 477 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 1: played recent mmorpg more recent MMO RPGs and been annoyed 478 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 1: at the fact that there are people who are playing 479 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 1: the game just apparently to make other people miserable, called griefers. Yeah, uh, 480 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 1: that started pretty much with the dawn of mmrpgs. Yeah. Now, 481 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,400 Speaker 1: there were people who would lurk just outside of starting 482 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 1: areas and waylay characters, and uh, sometimes they would just 483 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 1: do it just to do it. You know it wasn't 484 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 1: They knew you probably were not carrying anything of value 485 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: on you. There was no reason to really attack you. 486 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 1: There's no real benefit, and yet they would do it 487 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 1: because they're jerks. Um it. Meanwhile, and there were a 488 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 1: lot of other problems. There were people who were finding 489 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 1: ways to cheat the system. In fact, there was a 490 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 1: monumental event. So the game launches in ninety seven. Well, 491 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 1: August of the game has its first monumental event. August. 492 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 1: What happened? Oh was it ninth? Oh, I've got eighth, 493 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 1: but but you know what I'm talking about right, Well, 494 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 1: and there was an assassination, yes, of Lord British himself. 495 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 1: Now here's the thing. Lord British is uh normally in 496 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 1: the game was invulnerable to attack. But um uh, there 497 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: was an in game appearance of Lord British that happened 498 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 1: during the beta testing of Ultimate Online. So the game 499 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:39,560 Speaker 1: had not gone gold yet, it was still but it 500 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 1: was open to players who were in the beta program. 501 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 1: And uh so Lord British was showing up during uh 502 00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 1: an event in order to kind of stress test the servers. 503 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 1: The idea was that if Lord British is there, then 504 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 1: most of the beta players are going to be logged on, 505 00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 1: and this will help the origin and determine all well 506 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 1: their servers can hold up to the strain of a 507 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 1: lot of people playing at one time. And then, depending 508 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 1: upon whom you ask, uh, something went terribly wrong. Either 509 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,480 Speaker 1: it was a computer issue or a human issue. And 510 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: it's kind of kind of hard to uh to say what, 511 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 1: although I think I know what it really happened. What 512 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 1: happened is that the server crashed, server reboots. Richard Garriott 513 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 1: is there as Lord British. Server reboots and resets Lord British, 514 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 1: turning off his invulnerability flag. Richard Garriott does not think 515 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,000 Speaker 1: he needs, does not realize this, and does not turn 516 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 1: the invulnerability flag back on. And then there was a 517 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: character called Reins who testing out this theory, attacked Lord 518 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 1: British and killed him. He was also he was not 519 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,240 Speaker 1: the player behind Rains was already kind of a notorious 520 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 1: on the servers because he was known for x bloyding 521 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 1: bugs as opposed to reporting bugs. He was a software 522 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:09,240 Speaker 1: consultant from what I understand, so um uh. It was 523 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 1: also supposedly one of the earliest griefers in the beta program, 524 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: so he was one of these people I was talking 525 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 1: about in a way, so, uh yeah, they were. He 526 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 1: was already kind of on thin ice, so that it 527 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 1: was an amusing situation and it was an irritating situation, 528 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:32,360 Speaker 1: and uh they you know. The game also even had 529 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 1: little humorous responses and references to this when it went gold. 530 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 1: But yeah, that was one of those memorable moments in 531 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: m m O RPG history. Chris and I will have 532 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 1: more to say about how to play games online with 533 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of other Yahoo's in just a second, 534 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 1: but first let's take a quick break to thank our sponsor. 535 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 1: So Ultimate Online ends up being the very first MMO 536 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:11,200 Speaker 1: RPG to hit one thousand subscribers. It's really successful early 537 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:13,840 Speaker 1: on in in the in these early early days of 538 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:15,960 Speaker 1: the m m O RPG. Yeah. But the next one 539 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,560 Speaker 1: that I have is it's going to put it to 540 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 1: Shane even are you talking about the one from Variant 541 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 1: Interactive later Sony Online Entertainment, premiered in ever Crack, Yes, 542 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:33,280 Speaker 1: also known as ever Request or Rest or never Rest. Yeah, 543 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 1: lots of different names for this. Yeah, this was again. 544 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 1: And what's also interesting is so far Maridy in fifty 545 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 1: nine Ultimate Online Request, all three fantasy based role playing games. Yes, 546 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:48,600 Speaker 1: EverQuest launches and it is a massive success. Uh. It 547 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 1: was in development at the same time as Ultima Online, 548 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 1: had a very different look from Ultima Online, although similar 549 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 1: setting in the sense of it's the Sword and Sorcery realm. 550 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: And uh, yeah, it was one of those games where eventually, 551 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:03,120 Speaker 1: if you were talking about an M M O RPG, 552 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,720 Speaker 1: you were talking either about Ultimate Online or ever Request, 553 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:13,320 Speaker 1: and EverQuest popularity skyrocketed that that might be a and 554 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 1: and understatement in some ways, and and people would play 555 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 1: it for hours and hours and and and lose track 556 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 1: of time, and there were divorces and well, and also 557 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 1: it was you know, they had the benefit of seeing 558 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 1: what was not working on Ultimate Online and building out 559 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 1: their world so that it could limit these problems as 560 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 1: much as possible. Some problems are hard to get around 561 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 1: because they are human generated, and it's hard to create 562 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:44,080 Speaker 1: systems that prevent human behavior from happening. Humans are very 563 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 1: good at figuring out ways to get around systems so 564 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 1: that they can be jerks. Uh, it's just true. We're 565 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,960 Speaker 1: you know, we're like, hey, I really wanted to to 566 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,040 Speaker 1: to do this one thing. The game's not letting me 567 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,080 Speaker 1: but I bet if I try it this way, it'll work. 568 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:02,719 Speaker 1: So yeah, Quest launches. But another game also fairly popular, 569 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,000 Speaker 1: not nearly as popular as ever Quest Launch, is called 570 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 1: Asheron's Call Yep, yep. That one was from Turbine Entertainment, 571 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:14,759 Speaker 1: later on taken over by Microsoft an Ashuran's Call. Uh 572 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:20,279 Speaker 1: another fantasy game. Yeah, yeah, it had. It had sort 573 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:23,000 Speaker 1: of a different system though, uh to it. It was 574 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:27,680 Speaker 1: sort of a loyalty system where you would basically, um, 575 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:29,840 Speaker 1: there were It was sort of like a lord and 576 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 1: vassals kind of situation where um, the lord was expected 577 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:38,239 Speaker 1: to be good to his I assume there were ladies too, 578 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 1: But basically in in this role, the person at the 579 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:42,480 Speaker 1: top of the pyramid is supposed to be expected to 580 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 1: be good to their people, um, for which they would 581 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 1: be rewarded and the people would be able to support 582 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:53,280 Speaker 1: their uh, the person at the top of the pyramid. 583 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:55,480 Speaker 1: So it was supposed to kind of like feudalism. Yeah, 584 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,359 Speaker 1: it was really supposed to work out in the game, 585 00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,759 Speaker 1: and apparently it was sort of a limited success. It 586 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:01,879 Speaker 1: was a different, a very different kind of system than 587 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,239 Speaker 1: than anyone else had had. There are a couple of 588 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 1: games that really tried to break the mold. UM, and 589 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:10,239 Speaker 1: that was one of them. And and they they've all 590 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:14,440 Speaker 1: met with varying degrees of success. UM. Two thousand was 591 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 1: an interesting year because that's when Lucas Arts announced, uh, 592 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,880 Speaker 1: that it was developing a game that initially I was 593 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,600 Speaker 1: very very eager to get my hands on, called Star 594 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:30,319 Speaker 1: Wars Galaxies. So it's announced in two thousand and the 595 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,040 Speaker 1: original launch date was going to be in two thousand one, 596 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:39,400 Speaker 1: but it was delayed until two thousand three. Uh. The game, UH, 597 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 1: the setting of the game first of all set in 598 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,520 Speaker 1: the Star Wars universe obviously, but the actual setting of 599 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,319 Speaker 1: the game was set after the events of Episode four 600 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:53,080 Speaker 1: often just called Star Wars, also known as a New Hope, 601 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,480 Speaker 1: So and you hope justin it's so death Stars blown up. 602 00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:58,480 Speaker 1: That's when the game is set. And you could actually 603 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 1: encounter character from the films as you played the game. UM. 604 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:06,360 Speaker 1: But there were a lot of issues people had with 605 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: this game. There was some gameplay issues, there were some 606 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,920 Speaker 1: story issues. There were people who were very upset that 607 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:15,160 Speaker 1: the Jedi system was kind of weird and Star Wars 608 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:17,640 Speaker 1: Galaxies in order to be a Jedi, you know, keep 609 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,760 Speaker 1: in mind set during the original trilogy, not a Jedi. 610 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,520 Speaker 1: In that original trilogy, you essentially had Luke and then 611 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:26,400 Speaker 1: you had you know, Jonnith Vader, the Dark Lord of 612 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,319 Speaker 1: the Sith, and you had Yoda, and then as far 613 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,840 Speaker 1: as you knew that was that was it was Obi 614 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 1: Wan in the first film, but then he dies spoiler alert, 615 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,839 Speaker 1: and so, um, you didn't have that any Jedi running around. 616 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:40,640 Speaker 1: I mean, the idea was that Darth Vader had gone 617 00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,759 Speaker 1: and and pretty much killed all the rest of them. So, 618 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:47,880 Speaker 1: because you know, they wanted the game to be true 619 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,480 Speaker 1: to the lore of Star Wars as much as possible, 620 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:52,799 Speaker 1: they did not want it to be easy to go 621 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,359 Speaker 1: out and create a Jedi, because if it were, then 622 00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:56,920 Speaker 1: everyone would go out and create a Jedi, and then 623 00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,000 Speaker 1: you'd suddenly you have a Star Wars universe where a 624 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:01,520 Speaker 1: hundred thousand Jedi are running around. I wouldn't feel like 625 00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:04,600 Speaker 1: Star Wars. So what they did was they created a 626 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:09,000 Speaker 1: system that was difficult to discover how to unlock the Jedi. 627 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:13,319 Speaker 1: It was almost, ah, it seemed almost random, like there 628 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:16,160 Speaker 1: was this list of criteria you had to complete and 629 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:21,000 Speaker 1: the list was never made public. But uh so the 630 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,479 Speaker 1: game launched in two thousand three, the first the first 631 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:27,680 Speaker 1: person to unlock the Jedi slot character did it within 632 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:32,239 Speaker 1: I think four months after the game launched. Uh. They 633 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:36,040 Speaker 1: later on change the requirements for becoming a Jedi and 634 00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,439 Speaker 1: made it a quest that you could take, so that 635 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,600 Speaker 1: you would have a very specific pathway you could take 636 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:43,319 Speaker 1: in order to become a Jedi, because people were saying 637 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,840 Speaker 1: Star Wars. The coolest people in Star Wars are the Jedi. 638 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:48,440 Speaker 1: They have They're the ones who have all the really 639 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 1: cool powers. They have the light sabers. These guys are awesome, 640 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:52,879 Speaker 1: and you're making it impossible for me to find out 641 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,200 Speaker 1: how to play one. So it's a very frustrating experience 642 00:37:56,239 --> 00:38:00,880 Speaker 1: for people. Well, these problems continued, among other issues, including 643 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:03,600 Speaker 1: things like reefers and cheaters that sort of stuff, and 644 00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:07,240 Speaker 1: the game was ultimately shut down in twenty eleven, partially 645 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 1: because there was another Star Wars game on the horizon, 646 00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:12,680 Speaker 1: but we'll get to that in a little bit. Yeah, 647 00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:14,440 Speaker 1: I was a little surprised that you didn't mention Dark 648 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,920 Speaker 1: Age of Camelot in two thousand one. Well that's because 649 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:23,200 Speaker 1: because the Star Wars Galaxies was originally But yeah, in 650 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:25,480 Speaker 1: two thousand one, dark Age of Camelot came out, and 651 00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:28,480 Speaker 1: that was that was an interesting game too because that 652 00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:32,160 Speaker 1: focused a lot on player versus player gameplay and it 653 00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:35,440 Speaker 1: was specifically set within the the world of King Arthur 654 00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:40,719 Speaker 1: theory and legend. Yeah another fantasy, but um but yeah, 655 00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,839 Speaker 1: very specific fantasy though, that's true. The the interesting thing 656 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,200 Speaker 1: about this is that you had games where player versus 657 00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:52,520 Speaker 1: player combat was possible because a lot of people wanted 658 00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:55,000 Speaker 1: to have the ability to test their characters against other 659 00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,160 Speaker 1: people's characters and play against them. There were other games 660 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:02,960 Speaker 1: that really stressed uh uh player cooperation, and some did 661 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,319 Speaker 1: not even allow player versus player interaction. You had to 662 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:10,560 Speaker 1: you could not attack another player. Uh. Some games tried 663 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 1: to split the difference where within certain regions there was 664 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:16,440 Speaker 1: no way you could attack another player. If you ventured 665 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,759 Speaker 1: outside of those regions, outside those safe zones, then you 666 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,879 Speaker 1: could attack or be attacked by other players. And uh. 667 00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,720 Speaker 1: Then there was another way of doing this where games 668 00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:29,200 Speaker 1: would create specific servers where if you would log on 669 00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:32,120 Speaker 1: to certain servers, they'd be player friendly in the sense 670 00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:33,919 Speaker 1: that you are not going to be attacked by any 671 00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,799 Speaker 1: other player because that's the kind of server it is, 672 00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:39,400 Speaker 1: and other servers or player versus player servers where it's 673 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:44,399 Speaker 1: anything goes and lots of different experimentation during this time 674 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,719 Speaker 1: to find out what what's the right way of going 675 00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:49,800 Speaker 1: about it, and to this day companies are still experimenting 676 00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:54,000 Speaker 1: with that. It also had the people in the game, 677 00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:57,520 Speaker 1: the characters in the game UH as part of a 678 00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:02,640 Speaker 1: basically specific tribes UM basically the the Uh, the English, 679 00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:06,080 Speaker 1: the Norse, and the Celtic groups when and each of 680 00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:10,560 Speaker 1: them had specific attributes at which they excelled UM. For example, 681 00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:15,160 Speaker 1: the the Celts were particularly good at magic UM and UM. 682 00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:19,399 Speaker 1: The Norse were better at melee combat UM. And that's 683 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,319 Speaker 1: something again. These systems, if you'll notice, these systems are 684 00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,080 Speaker 1: the kinds of things that are pretty common across all 685 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,239 Speaker 1: of the the current mm O RPGs, but it's sort 686 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,560 Speaker 1: of like they're being rolled out game by game and 687 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,960 Speaker 1: people are UM. They're sort of picking up to the 688 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:38,120 Speaker 1: point where it's they take a, B, C, D and E, 689 00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:40,400 Speaker 1: where before they were just sort of a well, this 690 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,480 Speaker 1: is an okay game, but look at this one thing. 691 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:47,160 Speaker 1: It's so cool. UM. Two thousand one was also an 692 00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:52,279 Speaker 1: Anarchy Online launched as a science fiction based game, So 693 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:54,440 Speaker 1: breaking the Mold I mean, Star Wars Galaxies had not 694 00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:56,360 Speaker 1: come out yet. It had been announced, but it hadn't 695 00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:58,440 Speaker 1: come out. And you could also argue that Star Wars 696 00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:01,120 Speaker 1: is in fact a fantasy science fiction. I would not 697 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,879 Speaker 1: argue against that. I think it's both. I think that 698 00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:08,000 Speaker 1: when most of the explanations for the technology within Star 699 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,120 Speaker 1: Wars really boiled down to magic, it pretty much just fantasy. 700 00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:15,080 Speaker 1: Well yeah, but the thing, ye well, a lightsabers a 701 00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:20,560 Speaker 1: magic sword, it really is. But u blasters and lands 702 00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:25,359 Speaker 1: feeders or technology, which is when yeah, yeah, okay, all right, 703 00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:27,880 Speaker 1: it's got the trappings of science fiction. It's a fantasy exactly. 704 00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:31,280 Speaker 1: Anarchy Online was science fiction based. It had some pretty 705 00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:34,560 Speaker 1: major technical issues when it launched, and had particular problems 706 00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:37,759 Speaker 1: handling large loads of players. So if a lot of 707 00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:40,480 Speaker 1: people tried to play on one server, there were a 708 00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:44,040 Speaker 1: lot of issues with lag and and and server stability. 709 00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:47,399 Speaker 1: So it had some issues when it launched. There's still 710 00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:49,040 Speaker 1: a lot of people who really loved that game, but 711 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,239 Speaker 1: there were a lot of problems with it. It did 712 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,640 Speaker 1: have several expansions, though, and this is when this is 713 00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:56,200 Speaker 1: the period in which you started to see a lot 714 00:41:56,280 --> 00:42:00,120 Speaker 1: of that Ever, Quest was infamous for the expansion that 715 00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:04,279 Speaker 1: I think sixteen different expansions came out Forever Quest, So 716 00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,640 Speaker 1: that's you know, and these were ways to increase the 717 00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,120 Speaker 1: appeal of the game to the long time players who 718 00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:12,640 Speaker 1: had pretty much achieved everything they could do within the 719 00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:15,960 Speaker 1: base game. Now why why would they keep playing? And 720 00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:18,560 Speaker 1: remember these games are based on not just a purchase price, 721 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:22,920 Speaker 1: but a monthly subscription, and so you want to try 722 00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,279 Speaker 1: and keep those players around as long as possible. Well, 723 00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,160 Speaker 1: one way to do that is to release expansions that 724 00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:32,400 Speaker 1: continue to engage players even after they have completed, you know, 725 00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:37,120 Speaker 1: the massive percentage of the base game. Well. Uh, in 726 00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,640 Speaker 1: two thousand two, we saw the launch of Final Fantasy 727 00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:45,320 Speaker 1: eleven online. Uh yeah, so it launched in in Japan 728 00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:48,560 Speaker 1: on the PlayStation two and at that time, so it 729 00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:51,160 Speaker 1: was available on multiple platforms. In fact, that was a 730 00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:55,160 Speaker 1: big deal. It was a massively multiplayer online game that 731 00:42:55,400 --> 00:43:00,560 Speaker 1: was supporting platforms across various kinds of machines. So it 732 00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:02,520 Speaker 1: wasn't you know, you didn't have to just play the 733 00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:05,200 Speaker 1: game on one particular computer. In fact, the same servers 734 00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:08,520 Speaker 1: were supporting the game for multiple platforms. And you might say, well, 735 00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:11,000 Speaker 1: you know, so what's the big deal about consoles. Well, 736 00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:14,840 Speaker 1: keep in mind that consoles for the most part, don't 737 00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:17,760 Speaker 1: necessarily have keyboards, and so if you want to talk, 738 00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:22,080 Speaker 1: this is part of the online multiplayer experience. You want 739 00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:25,760 Speaker 1: to communicate with your your teammates to achieve whatever goals 740 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:28,200 Speaker 1: to slay the dragon or to break into the fortress 741 00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:31,719 Speaker 1: or whatever that you're trying to accomplish them, or to 742 00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:35,279 Speaker 1: irritate people, uh, taunt people. You need to be able 743 00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:38,360 Speaker 1: to communicate with one another. And so now they're starting 744 00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:41,160 Speaker 1: to figure out ways convenient ways to do that to 745 00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,920 Speaker 1: make that happen in two thousand three. Uh and by 746 00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:47,520 Speaker 1: the way, there are a lot of games that can 747 00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,520 Speaker 1: come out over in Asia that fall into this category 748 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:52,359 Speaker 1: that I'm not really going to talk about. I'm telling 749 00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:54,880 Speaker 1: mostly about the ones that were playing in the Western hemisphere, 750 00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,680 Speaker 1: um because that's where the majority of our listeners are from. 751 00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:01,480 Speaker 1: But in two thousand three, Ube Soft launches a game 752 00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:05,360 Speaker 1: called Shadow Bain and Shadow Bain. The interesting thing to 753 00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:08,040 Speaker 1: me about Shadow Bain was that the idea behind it 754 00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:12,320 Speaker 1: was that the game's events would not be pregenerated quests 755 00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:15,239 Speaker 1: because for a lot of these m M O RPGs, 756 00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:18,279 Speaker 1: you create a character. There are certain quests within the 757 00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:22,239 Speaker 1: world that exists and have existed for everyone that you 758 00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:24,520 Speaker 1: can go and complete. So your buddy can go and 759 00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:28,120 Speaker 1: they get a quest from this person, Hey, this in 760 00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:30,399 Speaker 1: is full of rats. I need you to clean it out. 761 00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:32,479 Speaker 1: And your buddy goes in and cleans out all the rats, 762 00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:34,920 Speaker 1: and then you go to that same person that persusays, hey, 763 00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:36,600 Speaker 1: this in is full of rats. I needed to clean 764 00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:38,040 Speaker 1: them out. Then you can go and clean out all 765 00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:41,799 Speaker 1: the rats. Um Shadow Bain was different. It depended upon 766 00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:45,600 Speaker 1: the players to generate the content and the events within 767 00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:49,680 Speaker 1: the game that would affect everyone, which is pretty cool. 768 00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:53,160 Speaker 1: It's also putting a lot of responsibility on the backs 769 00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:57,560 Speaker 1: of the players, So I can't tell you exactly how 770 00:44:57,560 --> 00:44:59,520 Speaker 1: well it works because I never played Shadow Bain. I 771 00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:01,720 Speaker 1: just thought it was interesting to try and go about 772 00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,200 Speaker 1: making a game in that way. I have played in 773 00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,920 Speaker 1: games where the game content was supposed to be player generated, 774 00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:12,080 Speaker 1: and I gotta tell you, for every cool event that happens, 775 00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:16,440 Speaker 1: there's about twenty hours of nothing happening. Hey it's Jonathan 776 00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:19,840 Speaker 1: again from you know the present, just letting you guys 777 00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:21,319 Speaker 1: know that we have a little bit more to say 778 00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:24,200 Speaker 1: about m m O RPGs, But before we get into that, 779 00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:28,400 Speaker 1: I'm just this rate is just not going well for me. 780 00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,040 Speaker 1: All Right, We're gonna take a quick break and thank 781 00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:41,719 Speaker 1: our sponsor. And the early two thousands is also when 782 00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:46,760 Speaker 1: we start talking about people trading real money for stuff 783 00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,960 Speaker 1: in games and spawning its own economy. Of course, that 784 00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:52,440 Speaker 1: that became a problem for a lot of people, you know, 785 00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:55,160 Speaker 1: gold farming as they call it. Yeah, so you had 786 00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:59,560 Speaker 1: it's kind of crazy coming across many platforms in many games. Yeah, 787 00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:02,439 Speaker 1: you had the willing to pay real money to get 788 00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:07,319 Speaker 1: in game resources to make their players stronger within the game, 789 00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:10,600 Speaker 1: which is kind of interesting because you think you could 790 00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,319 Speaker 1: be using that real money to get you real resources 791 00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:16,319 Speaker 1: to make you happier in real life. But people were 792 00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:18,960 Speaker 1: deriving so much pleasure from the games themselves that they 793 00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:22,800 Speaker 1: wanted to uh to to deck out their characters with 794 00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:24,960 Speaker 1: the best stuff that they could possibly get. And in 795 00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,600 Speaker 1: some cases it wasn't like some cases it was so 796 00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:29,880 Speaker 1: that they could show off. Some cases, it was so 797 00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:32,520 Speaker 1: that they could take advantage of other players more effectively. 798 00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:35,480 Speaker 1: Some people just wanted you know, they really like playing 799 00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:37,800 Speaker 1: the game, and they just wanted to have the coolest 800 00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:39,960 Speaker 1: stuff that they could get for their character, and they 801 00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:42,719 Speaker 1: relatedn't have the time or the inclination to go get 802 00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:46,920 Speaker 1: it themselves. Because sometimes you're talking about items that would 803 00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:51,840 Speaker 1: drop only if you killed a certain monster and not always. 804 00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:54,839 Speaker 1: You know, it wouldn't always drop. So in other words, 805 00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:57,520 Speaker 1: you might have to face off against this particularly powerful 806 00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:00,239 Speaker 1: creature and use a lot of your resources like health 807 00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:03,000 Speaker 1: potions or whatever, in order to take the creature down. 808 00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:06,520 Speaker 1: And then the creature drops items, and it may even 809 00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:08,880 Speaker 1: be that you know, it's only a certain percentage of 810 00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:11,399 Speaker 1: the time will it drop the item you're specifically looking for. 811 00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:13,960 Speaker 1: To make it more complicated, you would have games where 812 00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:17,400 Speaker 1: other players could pick up an item when it dropped, 813 00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:21,000 Speaker 1: and so it may only drop that one item, But 814 00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:23,440 Speaker 1: then there's fifty people all trying to grab it at 815 00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:26,759 Speaker 1: the same time and there's only one instance of that item. Well, 816 00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:30,080 Speaker 1: then you know that would cause problems too, because you 817 00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:33,680 Speaker 1: have people who would camp out waiting for a monster 818 00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:36,080 Speaker 1: to regenerate in order for them to go in and 819 00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:40,080 Speaker 1: try and farm out this particular item, and it for 820 00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,680 Speaker 1: some people it was worthwhile. For others, they just said, 821 00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:46,560 Speaker 1: this doesn't make the game fun. If I'm just you know, 822 00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:48,759 Speaker 1: competing against all these people to wait for this one 823 00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:51,920 Speaker 1: monster to loads so I can get this one item, 824 00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:55,160 Speaker 1: you know, this feels more like work than a game, 825 00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:57,680 Speaker 1: and that became a problem for some people. It's still 826 00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:00,560 Speaker 1: a problem today depending upon how the game handles items. 827 00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:02,160 Speaker 1: There are a lot of games now that will drop 828 00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:06,239 Speaker 1: items that are specific only to that one character, so 829 00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:09,040 Speaker 1: that each character that is participating and say a raid, 830 00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:14,560 Speaker 1: all has access to the same general stuff. But if 831 00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:17,000 Speaker 1: they take it, it does not get removed from the 832 00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:20,440 Speaker 1: other person's game. So if if we are banding together 833 00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:23,480 Speaker 1: and we take down a monster and that monster drops 834 00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:25,719 Speaker 1: twenty gold, you get to pick up twenty gold. I 835 00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:28,440 Speaker 1: get to pick up twenty gold, and it's not like 836 00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:30,719 Speaker 1: the twenty gold only exists for the two of us. 837 00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:34,920 Speaker 1: So anyway, moving on to two thousand four, which is 838 00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:37,520 Speaker 1: a big year and m m O RPGs again, I'm 839 00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:40,880 Speaker 1: surprised you didn't mention eve Online, which also debuted into Yeah, 840 00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:43,320 Speaker 1: I thought about that and then I didn't. Do you 841 00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:47,160 Speaker 1: want to say anything about eval Online is still very popular. 842 00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:51,760 Speaker 1: Um it's uh. It's made by a European company UM 843 00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:56,279 Speaker 1: named CCP games and very predominantly male too from what 844 00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:59,839 Speaker 1: I understand. Um, but yeah, it's a it's a big 845 00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:04,440 Speaker 1: um still very very popular with space exploration and basically 846 00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:08,120 Speaker 1: space combat. Um, whereas in the Star Wars games you 847 00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:11,919 Speaker 1: might actually be a character and you know, on your feet, 848 00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:14,200 Speaker 1: and most of what I've seen of viv Online is 849 00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:17,160 Speaker 1: uh space based, so you know, you have your ship 850 00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:21,080 Speaker 1: and you're doing stuff. Um, and there's there's interstellar commerce 851 00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:24,040 Speaker 1: and that kind of thing. Um. Obviously I've never played, 852 00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:25,840 Speaker 1: but it's I do know some people who do, and 853 00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:28,719 Speaker 1: they really love it so and it's it's kind a 854 00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:30,400 Speaker 1: big following, which is why I thought, you know, you 855 00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:32,560 Speaker 1: should mention it. It's you know, always again one of 856 00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:35,560 Speaker 1: us nice to see a game that does not necessarily 857 00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:40,640 Speaker 1: just fall into the sword and sorcery realm. So next 858 00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:43,560 Speaker 1: we have in two thousand four three games that three 859 00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:46,200 Speaker 1: among the many games that came out, three big ones 860 00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:50,319 Speaker 1: request to which you know, because ever Quest, even with 861 00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:53,080 Speaker 1: the expansion packs, was starting to show its age, and 862 00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:57,200 Speaker 1: EverQuest two was an opportunity for Well to sell more 863 00:49:57,239 --> 00:49:59,600 Speaker 1: copies of games for one thing, but also to update 864 00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:03,280 Speaker 1: the the graphics and game engine beyond what an expansion 865 00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:07,040 Speaker 1: pat could do, and so Request To launches, City of 866 00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:11,799 Speaker 1: Heroes launches, and now you've got the superhero supervillain kind 867 00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:16,879 Speaker 1: of games launching, which was a neat um, a neat 868 00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:22,960 Speaker 1: expansion on M m O RPGs. And then the big 869 00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:27,080 Speaker 1: game that is on the tip of everyone's tongue when 870 00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:30,879 Speaker 1: they talk about M m O RPGs, World of Warcraft, 871 00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:37,719 Speaker 1: which I think you cannot describe anything other than phenomenal success. 872 00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:41,440 Speaker 1: I mean it was, it was a true phenomenon. There 873 00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:44,520 Speaker 1: are over ten million people playing the game. I remember 874 00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:47,080 Speaker 1: when Ultimate Online launched, it was a big deal when 875 00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:50,120 Speaker 1: they hit a hundred thousand subscribers. Now we're talking about 876 00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:53,360 Speaker 1: ten million people playing this game, and it even it 877 00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:57,080 Speaker 1: even I know that the largest number I've seen attributed 878 00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:58,839 Speaker 1: to it was a couple from a couple of years 879 00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:02,399 Speaker 1: ago now, but recording this in where they had hit 880 00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:05,680 Speaker 1: twelve million at one point, maybe even thirteen. So it 881 00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:09,160 Speaker 1: is declined in the past year or two, but not 882 00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:13,720 Speaker 1: it's still going. Yeah, there there are plenty of people 883 00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:17,160 Speaker 1: who still play and uh and the expansion packs have 884 00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:22,120 Speaker 1: really continued the development of that world so much so 885 00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:26,360 Speaker 1: that they destroyed it at one point, cataclysm completely uh 886 00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:29,359 Speaker 1: turned the world upside down, and uh it upsets some 887 00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:32,959 Speaker 1: players because things changed so dramatically. But the whole point 888 00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:35,879 Speaker 1: of it was that the player base for for Wow 889 00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:39,680 Speaker 1: was made up a lot a lot of the player base. 890 00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:42,799 Speaker 1: We're old time players who have been playing forever, and 891 00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:46,120 Speaker 1: you know, you have to keep making things interesting and 892 00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:49,800 Speaker 1: adding a new realm every now and then, and upping 893 00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:53,560 Speaker 1: the level cap by five only goes so far, and 894 00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:57,280 Speaker 1: so there have been some calculated risks of really shaking 895 00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:00,800 Speaker 1: the game up in order to keep long time players 896 00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:04,520 Speaker 1: around and interested, because now they've got you know, even 897 00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:09,080 Speaker 1: places that seemed familiar are now new to them. Uh. 898 00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:12,640 Speaker 1: For new players, that was a little confusing. So you'd ask, 899 00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:15,600 Speaker 1: like a level seventy eight character, Hey, how do I 900 00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:18,160 Speaker 1: get to such and such? Like, Uh, well, I can 901 00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:20,239 Speaker 1: tell you how you used to be able to get there, 902 00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:25,200 Speaker 1: I don't know how you get there now. Um they 903 00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:27,680 Speaker 1: left at the barrel, should have taken on the left. 904 00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:31,000 Speaker 1: And Albuquerque. Uh So yeah, that those games, all three 905 00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:34,000 Speaker 1: of those games were made a big impact. And you know, 906 00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:35,759 Speaker 1: it was at this point that you really started to 907 00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:39,640 Speaker 1: see some real competition between games because there are only 908 00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:42,040 Speaker 1: so many gamers out there who want to play online 909 00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:46,880 Speaker 1: role playing games, and yeah, and subscriptions can start to 910 00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:49,719 Speaker 1: rack up. I mean, these are not necessarily cheap and 911 00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:52,440 Speaker 1: maybe somewhere in the realm of you know, twenty to 912 00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:56,200 Speaker 1: thirty dollars a month, twenty three dollars a month to play, 913 00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:58,799 Speaker 1: and you know, you start playing multiple games, you only 914 00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:01,239 Speaker 1: have so much time to dedicate each game. So the 915 00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:05,279 Speaker 1: competition was pretty fierce. World of Warcraft ran with this 916 00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:09,799 Speaker 1: and did really well. Two thousand eight. There was a 917 00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:12,080 Speaker 1: game that launched that you know in other games again, 918 00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:15,640 Speaker 1: launched between two thousand and four and two. Guild Wars 919 00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:17,840 Speaker 1: is a good one, that's actually a really good example. 920 00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:21,160 Speaker 1: Or D and D Online dn D Online, which changed 921 00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:23,520 Speaker 1: from and it's not the only one. In fact, the 922 00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:25,560 Speaker 1: one I'm about to mention also did this. D n 923 00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:28,879 Speaker 1: D Online and Age of Conan, which launched in two 924 00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:31,239 Speaker 1: thousand eight. Both of those were games that you would 925 00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:34,319 Speaker 1: pay for originally and you did a monthly subscription. Both 926 00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:37,480 Speaker 1: of those games also came out with free to play models, 927 00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:40,360 Speaker 1: where you could play the game for free, but you 928 00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:45,360 Speaker 1: would not have access to all the content and depending 929 00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:47,600 Speaker 1: upon the way the game model was like an age 930 00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:51,400 Speaker 1: of Conan. You could switch from a free account to 931 00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:53,400 Speaker 1: a paid account and then you would get access to 932 00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:56,200 Speaker 1: all the premium content. D n D Online had a 933 00:53:56,239 --> 00:54:00,600 Speaker 1: system where you could pay money for in game credits 934 00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:03,320 Speaker 1: and use those in game credits to unlock areas of 935 00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:08,080 Speaker 1: the game. Uh So, yeah, it was it was experimenting 936 00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:12,120 Speaker 1: with different ways to get players engaged with the game 937 00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:15,279 Speaker 1: and enough so that they'd be willing to pay to 938 00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:18,719 Speaker 1: play the whole thing. And I don't know how successful 939 00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:20,640 Speaker 1: that was, honestly. I mean it's It's not the only 940 00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:22,839 Speaker 1: time we've seen that too. We've also seen online role 941 00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:25,279 Speaker 1: playing games where if you pay real money you get 942 00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:28,759 Speaker 1: access to in game resources. Um. And this is also 943 00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:31,360 Speaker 1: carried over into casual games. We've seen that. When we 944 00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:33,759 Speaker 1: had our episode about casual games, we talked about games 945 00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:37,200 Speaker 1: where you can pay cash to get an advantage in 946 00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:42,399 Speaker 1: the game freemium freemium. And it's also a fairly controversial 947 00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:46,920 Speaker 1: approach because you've got gamers who are saying this takes 948 00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:49,360 Speaker 1: skill out of it. If I just have deep enough pockets, 949 00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:51,560 Speaker 1: I can get an advantage over everyone else in the game, 950 00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:54,160 Speaker 1: and it has no bearing on whether I play the 951 00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:57,319 Speaker 1: game well or not, and you know there's something to that. 952 00:54:57,440 --> 00:54:59,960 Speaker 1: But guess what, that's what real life is about too. 953 00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:03,759 Speaker 1: I hate to tell you. For real life, if you 954 00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:06,000 Speaker 1: have a lot of money, you can make up for 955 00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:10,799 Speaker 1: a basic lack of skills. As it turns out, you 956 00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:14,040 Speaker 1: can hire people who have skills for you. Uh. And 957 00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:17,840 Speaker 1: then I wanted to end my discussion anyway on a 958 00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:23,680 Speaker 1: game that launched in um sort of like tail in 959 00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:27,439 Speaker 1: twenty eleven into into it's a little game called Star 960 00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:32,520 Speaker 1: Wars the Old Republic. We have finally reached the one 961 00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:37,080 Speaker 1: m m O rpg I actually play. I have not 962 00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:40,240 Speaker 1: played any other m m O rpg. I've seen them developed, 963 00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:42,960 Speaker 1: I've you know, I've played on someone else's account just 964 00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:44,600 Speaker 1: to get a feel for it, but I've never actually 965 00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:47,200 Speaker 1: got an account myself. I mean, I did play a 966 00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:49,239 Speaker 1: little bit of dn D online for about a couple 967 00:55:49,239 --> 00:55:51,840 Speaker 1: of months. But what you you wrote an article for 968 00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:55,520 Speaker 1: the site, Yes, and as that, I created an account 969 00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:57,200 Speaker 1: so I could play it so I could get a 970 00:55:57,200 --> 00:55:59,640 Speaker 1: better understanding of how it worked. So Star Wars the 971 00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:02,120 Speaker 1: Older of like the reason. There are a couple of 972 00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:03,759 Speaker 1: reasons why I wanted to play it. One is that 973 00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:06,560 Speaker 1: my hatred for Star Wars has not gotten that out 974 00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:09,640 Speaker 1: of hand yet. The prequels really did a number on me. 975 00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:13,160 Speaker 1: People don't don't get me started, please don't. But but 976 00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:16,520 Speaker 1: I still despite all that, I still loved the Star 977 00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:19,200 Speaker 1: Wars universe, and I really love the Knights of the 978 00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:22,120 Speaker 1: Old Republic games, which are set up almost four thousand 979 00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:25,799 Speaker 1: years before the original trilogy. Uh Star Wars the Old 980 00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:29,480 Speaker 1: Republic is set about thirty years before the original trilogy, 981 00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:32,879 Speaker 1: So there are no characters from the original trilogy or 982 00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:35,600 Speaker 1: any of the the Star Wars movies that are in 983 00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:40,440 Speaker 1: the games. The games You're You're in, You're You're encountering 984 00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:47,200 Speaker 1: you know, ancestors several generations removed from anyone in the 985 00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:49,560 Speaker 1: the film series. The nice thing about that is that 986 00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:52,640 Speaker 1: you don't have to worry about impacting the world so 987 00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:56,800 Speaker 1: much that the movies could not have happened right, because 988 00:56:57,040 --> 00:56:59,040 Speaker 1: that was one of the problems, is that you want 989 00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:02,799 Speaker 1: this rich world that Lucas created that people find so 990 00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:06,120 Speaker 1: interesting and compelling, but they didn't want to create it 991 00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:09,719 Speaker 1: in such a way that if you did one set 992 00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:12,840 Speaker 1: of actions, you you invalidate what happens in the movies. 993 00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:15,800 Speaker 1: Because then you've just invalidated the reason why everyone loves 994 00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:19,240 Speaker 1: it in in the first place. So that's a tricky balance. Well, 995 00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:22,800 Speaker 1: by setting it years before the events of the films, 996 00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:27,680 Speaker 1: you kind of take that causation away. And uh, the 997 00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:30,440 Speaker 1: Nights of the Old Republic games were a lot of 998 00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:32,440 Speaker 1: fun for me, So I wanted to play this and 999 00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:35,880 Speaker 1: I ended up getting an count and I do play. Uh. 1000 00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:38,680 Speaker 1: The character, my main character in case you're all wondering, 1001 00:57:39,120 --> 00:57:43,320 Speaker 1: is an imperial agent. You can play either as the 1002 00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:45,919 Speaker 1: imperial side or the rebels side. It's not the same 1003 00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:50,480 Speaker 1: as the movies and on depending on which side you're 1004 00:57:50,560 --> 00:57:52,800 Speaker 1: you're on, you can play light side or dark side, 1005 00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:55,840 Speaker 1: So you could be a light side Imperial agent if 1006 00:57:55,840 --> 00:58:01,600 Speaker 1: you wanted to be. I'm not. I played dark side. Yeah. 1007 00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:03,959 Speaker 1: Every time I can't I can't I play, I choose 1008 00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:08,600 Speaker 1: the dark side option. Um. And so anyway, it's a 1009 00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:11,120 Speaker 1: really fun game set in the Star Wars universe, and 1010 00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:14,680 Speaker 1: I've been having a blast with it, and it makes 1011 00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:18,000 Speaker 1: me think that if I had had a broadband connection earlier, 1012 00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:20,640 Speaker 1: I probably would have gotten into M M O RPGs earlier. 1013 00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:22,880 Speaker 1: Now the way I play it, I play it more 1014 00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:25,360 Speaker 1: as a single player kind of experience, and I only 1015 00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:28,080 Speaker 1: occasionally team up with people because I just haven't made 1016 00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:30,959 Speaker 1: that many friends on on Star Wars the Old Republic yet. 1017 00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:33,920 Speaker 1: But who knows, maybe after this podcast goes live, folks 1018 00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:36,320 Speaker 1: will track me down and be like, hey, man, I'll 1019 00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:39,560 Speaker 1: help you out. You're having trouble taking that Mandalorian down. 1020 00:58:39,600 --> 00:58:42,479 Speaker 1: And I will say, yes, yes, I am. That guy 1021 00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:46,960 Speaker 1: is tough and he's really irritating me. So yeah, they're 1022 00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:50,640 Speaker 1: They're scads of other games that we haven't mentioned, some 1023 00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:56,320 Speaker 1: very high profile games, dozens like Halo games, and yeah, 1024 00:58:56,360 --> 00:58:58,440 Speaker 1: and there are other games that are There are other 1025 00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:00,640 Speaker 1: games that are massively multiplayer. Fact, I'd argue that the the 1026 00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:03,920 Speaker 1: Halo games fit in this where there's not role playing involved, 1027 00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:07,240 Speaker 1: but it is a massively multiplayer online game, so you 1028 00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:09,080 Speaker 1: can have a lot of people playing at once even 1029 00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:11,800 Speaker 1: though they're not necessarily role playing. Yeah, it's it's funny 1030 00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:15,040 Speaker 1: because I think in a way, some of them and 1031 00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:18,440 Speaker 1: some of it's fuzzy to be honest, Um, there are 1032 00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:22,800 Speaker 1: different degrees of the role playing involved. When you're playing you, 1033 00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:27,360 Speaker 1: is that really playing a role? Yeah? So so, and 1034 00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:29,400 Speaker 1: again there are people who get into the role playing 1035 00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:32,520 Speaker 1: and there are people who despise the role playing. And 1036 00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:36,280 Speaker 1: sometimes you'll have companies create servers just for role players 1037 00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:39,000 Speaker 1: so that the role players can be all you know. 1038 00:59:39,640 --> 00:59:42,360 Speaker 1: The hardcore gamers might say that's all hippie dippy, So 1039 00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:44,680 Speaker 1: the role players gonna be all hippie dipping on their 1040 00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:47,280 Speaker 1: own servers, and everyone who's just you know, who just 1041 00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:49,400 Speaker 1: wants to play the game can be on their servers. 1042 00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:52,160 Speaker 1: I like a balance between the two, So I'm somewhere 1043 00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:55,080 Speaker 1: in the middle. I don't I don't really identify myself 1044 00:59:55,080 --> 00:59:59,280 Speaker 1: with either group. So anyway, that's kind of a bird's 1045 00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:01,800 Speaker 1: eye view the history of m m O RPGs. We 1046 01:00:01,840 --> 01:00:05,560 Speaker 1: really have dungeons and dragons to thank for it, all right, guys, 1047 01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:09,040 Speaker 1: that wraps up the classic episode. The m m O 1048 01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:11,960 Speaker 1: RPG story would have been fun to cover things like 1049 01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:16,000 Speaker 1: Elder Scrolls Online, which has had its share of ups 1050 01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:21,280 Speaker 1: and downs, or even the onslaught of massive multiplayer online 1051 01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:25,840 Speaker 1: role playing games slash shooters, stuff like Destiny and how 1052 01:00:25,880 --> 01:00:29,040 Speaker 1: that has fared. That's also heading s ups and downs 1053 01:00:29,080 --> 01:00:32,400 Speaker 1: since the debut. But maybe I'll do a follow up 1054 01:00:32,440 --> 01:00:34,760 Speaker 1: episode at some point to kind of give an update 1055 01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:37,400 Speaker 1: as to what has happened with M m O RPGs 1056 01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:41,440 Speaker 1: and related games since two thousand and twelve. It's certainly 1057 01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:45,680 Speaker 1: set the ground for a lot of online play, and 1058 01:00:45,720 --> 01:00:49,800 Speaker 1: we're seeing more and more versions of online games these days, 1059 01:00:50,120 --> 01:00:55,200 Speaker 1: everything from pub G to other role playing games. If 1060 01:00:55,240 --> 01:00:59,080 Speaker 1: you guys have any suggestions for future episodes of tech Stuff, 1061 01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:02,680 Speaker 1: why not right me, because if you just hold it 1062 01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:06,200 Speaker 1: in your heart, I'm not gonna know. The email address 1063 01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:08,920 Speaker 1: for the show is tech Stuff at how stuff works 1064 01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:11,760 Speaker 1: dot com, or drop me a line on Facebook or Twitter. 1065 01:01:12,080 --> 01:01:14,480 Speaker 1: The handle of both of those is tech Stuff hs W. 1066 01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:18,920 Speaker 1: Do not forget. For goodness sakes, we have an Instagram account. 1067 01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:22,360 Speaker 1: Go follow it and I'll talk to you again really 1068 01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:30,720 Speaker 1: soon for more on this and thousands of other topics. 1069 01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:42,200 Speaker 1: Because it how stuff Works dot Com.