1 00:00:06,790 --> 00:00:10,690 Speaker 1: Amy Robach and TJ Holmes present Killer Thriller with your host, 2 00:00:10,869 --> 00:00:15,870 Speaker 1: Elisa Donovan. Hey, everybody. 3 00:00:15,890 --> 00:00:20,300 Speaker 2: Elisa Donovan here, and this is Killer Thriller. Imagine answering 4 00:00:20,340 --> 00:00:23,980 Speaker 2: your door on an ordinary Sunday morning and suddenly finding 5 00:00:24,060 --> 00:00:29,340 Speaker 2: your entire family at gunpoint. In November of 2009, pregnant 6 00:00:29,420 --> 00:00:33,660 Speaker 2: mother Marcela Borges, her husband Rubens, and their five-year-old son 7 00:00:33,740 --> 00:00:37,870 Speaker 2: Ryan were taken hostage in after armed intruders stormed their 8 00:00:37,909 --> 00:00:42,370 Speaker 2: Winter Garden, Florida home. For three terrifying days, the family 9 00:00:42,409 --> 00:00:47,870 Speaker 2: was bound, beaten, and threatened, as their captors demanded $ 200, 000 10 00:00:47,630 --> 00:00:52,150 Speaker 2: they simply didn't have. This remarkable story is told in 11 00:00:52,190 --> 00:00:56,590 Speaker 2: the movie Terror Comes Knocking, the Marcela Borges story. Today, 12 00:00:56,710 --> 00:01:00,410 Speaker 2: I'm joined by Ivan Lopez, who plays Oscar Hernandez, one 13 00:01:00,450 --> 00:01:02,770 Speaker 2: of the men accused of taking part in the kidnapping 14 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 2: and the man police accused of shooting Marcela as she 15 00:01:06,140 --> 00:01:07,020 Speaker 2: tried to escape. 16 00:01:07,860 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 3: Hi, Ivan. 17 00:01:08,660 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 2: Welcome to Killer Thriller. Thank you so much for talking 18 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 2: with me today. 19 00:01:11,740 --> 00:01:15,179 Speaker 3: Of course, yeah. Thanks for having me. 20 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:22,110 Speaker 2: So this movie and this story is so deeply upsetting, 21 00:01:22,150 --> 00:01:25,929 Speaker 2: like most things that we talk about on this podcast. 22 00:01:26,170 --> 00:01:30,330 Speaker 2: But how much did you actually know about Marcela Borges 23 00:01:30,370 --> 00:01:32,030 Speaker 2: before you read the script? 24 00:01:32,790 --> 00:01:37,330 Speaker 4: Yeah, so I got the script and I knew it 25 00:01:37,350 --> 00:01:41,250 Speaker 4: was about a well-known case. And obviously with any audition, 26 00:01:42,170 --> 00:01:44,250 Speaker 4: you want to see who's involved, what it's based on. 27 00:01:44,290 --> 00:01:47,210 Speaker 4: So I did a lot of that. I didn't really 28 00:01:47,250 --> 00:01:49,940 Speaker 4: dive into the story right away. I kind of just 29 00:01:49,950 --> 00:01:51,250 Speaker 4: saw that it was based on true story, who the 30 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:54,620 Speaker 4: characters were. But we were, I think for the most part, 31 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 4: the criminals. So Miguel, Victor, and Oscar, they were all 32 00:01:59,540 --> 00:02:03,340 Speaker 4: kind of cast a little late. So we were cast 33 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 4: and I think the next week we. 34 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:05,639 Speaker 3: Were going to start. 35 00:02:05,700 --> 00:02:10,010 Speaker 4: So we had some conversations with the director. But as 36 00:02:10,050 --> 00:02:13,290 Speaker 4: far as the actual story and you know, how harrowing 37 00:02:13,310 --> 00:02:17,389 Speaker 4: the whole experience was for the family, didn't really dive 38 00:02:17,410 --> 00:02:19,329 Speaker 4: into that until I got the part. And then that's 39 00:02:19,370 --> 00:02:22,049 Speaker 4: when I, people had told me there was a documentary 40 00:02:22,150 --> 00:02:24,250 Speaker 4: and I kind of had to make the decision whether 41 00:02:24,270 --> 00:02:25,810 Speaker 4: I was going to watch it or not, just to 42 00:02:25,850 --> 00:02:28,620 Speaker 4: know if I wanted, you know, how much separation I 43 00:02:28,660 --> 00:02:33,790 Speaker 4: wanted from the actual case to, actual characters and and yeah. 44 00:02:34,290 --> 00:02:37,230 Speaker 2: Right i know that's always an interesting thing that everyone 45 00:02:38,370 --> 00:02:42,730 Speaker 2: you know works differently where some people really want to 46 00:02:42,750 --> 00:02:46,380 Speaker 2: know everything and some want to kind of like create 47 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:50,660 Speaker 2: your own character sort of a little bit separate from 48 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 2: you know perhaps the real person. So I personally was 49 00:02:56,060 --> 00:02:58,300 Speaker 2: very surprised that I had never heard of this case. 50 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:01,180 Speaker 2: And then I went, I can't believe I've never heard 51 00:03:01,220 --> 00:03:01,519 Speaker 2: of this. 52 00:03:02,220 --> 00:03:04,820 Speaker 1: This was, it's absurd. 53 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 2: And the family seems to really have been able to 54 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 2: keep themselves largely out of the public eye, which is 55 00:03:12,780 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 2: pretty unusual for something like this, you know, post this happening. 56 00:03:17,139 --> 00:03:20,380 Speaker 1: Did they Do you know, were they a part of 57 00:03:20,419 --> 00:03:23,300 Speaker 1: the production at all? Did you ever meet any of them? 58 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:28,920 Speaker 4: I don't think they were. I did see some actual mugshots, 59 00:03:29,139 --> 00:03:33,380 Speaker 4: I believe, of our characters. But yeah, as far as 60 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:38,300 Speaker 4: who was involved, I'm not aware that anybody in the 61 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:41,180 Speaker 4: actual case was involved. But I do know that now, 62 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:44,860 Speaker 4: since the film's release, And people, you know, getting a 63 00:03:44,860 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 4: little more acquainted with her story. There's more pieces on it. 64 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 4: There's more information out there. And, you know, there should 65 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 4: be just because of how resilient she was in that 66 00:03:56,380 --> 00:03:57,100 Speaker 4: whole experience. 67 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:02,510 Speaker 2: Your character, Oscar Hernandez, was only 19 when this happened. 68 00:04:03,350 --> 00:04:07,230 Speaker 1: And, I mean, it's so disturbing that. 69 00:04:07,630 --> 00:04:11,330 Speaker 2: Did you learn anything about how a 19-year-old winds up 70 00:04:11,410 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 2: in this... something this elaborate and violent? 71 00:04:15,870 --> 00:04:19,870 Speaker 4: Yeah, I feel like, you know, obviously, given the limited information, 72 00:04:19,890 --> 00:04:24,710 Speaker 4: I don't think it's too far fetched to imagine somebody 73 00:04:25,170 --> 00:04:27,650 Speaker 4: in his position to kind of go through the, you know, 74 00:04:28,230 --> 00:04:33,130 Speaker 4: the backtracks of anyone who's kind of exposed to, you know, 75 00:04:33,170 --> 00:04:38,070 Speaker 4: I mean, again, being limited to what I had, it's, The. 76 00:04:37,990 --> 00:04:39,250 Speaker 3: Narrative for. 77 00:04:40,450 --> 00:04:44,740 Speaker 4: Immigrants from Honduras to come to the United States, I 78 00:04:44,750 --> 00:04:51,720 Speaker 4: think it's a familiar path to see somebody go down 79 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 4: to the criminal world. So I think I was trying to, 80 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,140 Speaker 4: like anything as an actor, is empathize with the character 81 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:06,850 Speaker 4: I'm playing. you know, there's no article that'll come out 82 00:05:06,890 --> 00:05:08,950 Speaker 4: that will try to do that because, you know, it 83 00:05:09,010 --> 00:05:11,450 Speaker 4: is a very real case with real victims and, you know, 84 00:05:11,500 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 4: they should be the priority. But for myself, I did 85 00:05:15,380 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 4: need to kind of create some sort of why or understanding, 86 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:22,940 Speaker 4: you know, what would push somebody to do something like this. 87 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:26,060 Speaker 4: And that came with, you know, just, you know, the 88 00:05:26,100 --> 00:05:30,159 Speaker 4: desperation of being in a poverty situation and not having 89 00:05:30,180 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 4: a way out and, you know, kind of running around with, 90 00:05:34,250 --> 00:05:36,089 Speaker 4: a group of people that, you know, might not have 91 00:05:36,130 --> 00:05:38,730 Speaker 4: the best influence on you and where that can lead 92 00:05:39,110 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 4: and how that can affect, you know, looking for actual 93 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 4: work and, um, you know, getting like a rap sheet and, 94 00:05:46,500 --> 00:05:49,380 Speaker 4: you know, all these things that sort of just point 95 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:54,410 Speaker 4: you to the most desperate, um, case, which is, you know, 96 00:05:54,430 --> 00:05:58,210 Speaker 4: to just, you know, extort somebody for, for, for money 97 00:05:58,390 --> 00:06:00,090 Speaker 4: in hopes that you can take that money and start 98 00:06:00,130 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 4: a better life or go somewhere. So, um, That was 99 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:06,740 Speaker 4: definitely the basis I had for Oscar, especially being so young. 100 00:06:06,779 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 4: I did hear that he was, I mean, to be 101 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:12,599 Speaker 4: involved in such a violent crime. There's some things that 102 00:06:12,620 --> 00:06:14,580 Speaker 4: happen in real life that weren't in the film because 103 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:17,600 Speaker 4: of how dark they were. So that does take a 104 00:06:17,620 --> 00:06:21,070 Speaker 4: very specific type of mindset or person. So, you know, 105 00:06:21,089 --> 00:06:24,270 Speaker 4: that comes with a whole other psychology of who he was. Right. 106 00:06:24,510 --> 00:06:27,470 Speaker 2: I do think the, the film does a great job 107 00:06:27,510 --> 00:06:30,230 Speaker 2: and you do a great job of, it's almost like a, a, 108 00:06:30,770 --> 00:06:33,730 Speaker 2: a twist because I read things about the case after 109 00:06:33,790 --> 00:06:37,990 Speaker 2: I watched the movie and it, they, they really use, 110 00:06:38,850 --> 00:06:41,010 Speaker 2: they set it up such that it seems like you 111 00:06:41,050 --> 00:06:45,290 Speaker 2: have a little bit of compassion for her, right? Like you, every, you, 112 00:06:45,850 --> 00:06:48,270 Speaker 2: you're all masked all the time and there's certainly a 113 00:06:48,930 --> 00:06:51,740 Speaker 2: threat and it's violent so that for anybody that isn't 114 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:53,500 Speaker 2: familiar with It's. 115 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:57,220 Speaker 1: One afternoon in life. It was in the morning. 116 00:06:57,260 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 2: But these perpetrators knock on the front door of this 117 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 2: family's home and hold them up at gunpoint. 118 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:08,930 Speaker 1: It's a couple. They have a five-year-old son who is autistic. 119 00:07:09,070 --> 00:07:13,390 Speaker 2: In the movie, I don't think he doesn't have any disability, right? 120 00:07:13,670 --> 00:07:16,210 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think they do. Yeah, they don't really. 121 00:07:16,770 --> 00:07:18,530 Speaker 1: So they hold them up at gunpoint. 122 00:07:19,100 --> 00:07:23,890 Speaker 2: The mother and the wife is also pregnant. And they 123 00:07:23,970 --> 00:07:27,980 Speaker 2: essentially hold them hostage for three days and threaten them 124 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:34,900 Speaker 2: quite violently and extort from them, give them $ 30, 000 that's 125 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:37,380 Speaker 2: in their home in a safe, and then take the 126 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 2: mom to get another almost $ 30, 000 from the bank. And 127 00:07:41,060 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 2: held up at gunpoint the entire time. 128 00:07:52,180 --> 00:07:52,620 Speaker 1: Time. 129 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 2: But your character, it feels like at a certain point 130 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,990 Speaker 2: in the beginning, he's almost kinder to her, or you 131 00:08:00,020 --> 00:08:03,410 Speaker 2: feel like maybe he's going to, I don't know, just 132 00:08:03,470 --> 00:08:06,230 Speaker 2: sort of have some compassion for her. And then in 133 00:08:06,290 --> 00:08:08,390 Speaker 2: the end, he's the one that winds up shooting her. 134 00:08:08,910 --> 00:08:13,740 Speaker 1: So it's so arresting in that way. 135 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,540 Speaker 2: How can you talk a little bit about that, shooting 136 00:08:17,580 --> 00:08:20,020 Speaker 2: that and that kind of process? 137 00:08:20,470 --> 00:08:23,740 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think, you know, being in that character's mindset, 138 00:08:23,950 --> 00:08:26,460 Speaker 4: you know, they went in with a plan that just 139 00:08:26,580 --> 00:08:30,420 Speaker 4: sort of started to unravel. You know, that started with this, 140 00:08:31,180 --> 00:08:34,500 Speaker 4: you know, inside knowledge that, you know, Rubens owned this 141 00:08:34,540 --> 00:08:38,950 Speaker 4: company and, you know, they were targeted because they suspected 142 00:08:38,990 --> 00:08:40,750 Speaker 4: that they had more money than they actually did. So, 143 00:08:41,390 --> 00:08:45,589 Speaker 4: you know, once Bianca, you know, all the violence was happening, 144 00:08:45,650 --> 00:08:48,740 Speaker 4: they still weren't giving it up. It was pretty clear 145 00:08:48,790 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 4: that there was some sort of discrepancy with what was 146 00:08:52,940 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 4: on paper and what they actually had access to. So 147 00:08:56,340 --> 00:08:59,540 Speaker 4: when that started to unravel, I think Oscar really, he 148 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:02,150 Speaker 4: has the capacity to do what he needs to in 149 00:09:02,210 --> 00:09:06,490 Speaker 4: order to, you know, ensure that he gets what he needs, 150 00:09:06,530 --> 00:09:09,490 Speaker 4: gets what he wants. And also not only having a 151 00:09:09,530 --> 00:09:14,650 Speaker 4: softness for Marcella in a sense, but also for Bianca, 152 00:09:14,890 --> 00:09:17,740 Speaker 4: you know, like what's that relationship, but why is, you know, why, 153 00:09:18,929 --> 00:09:22,189 Speaker 4: Was he taking orders from her so specifically? 154 00:09:22,550 --> 00:09:22,990 Speaker 1: Right. 155 00:09:23,270 --> 00:09:28,410 Speaker 2: So Bianca dos Santos is considered the ringleader of the entire. 156 00:09:29,580 --> 00:09:33,359 Speaker 1: Crime. And she supposedly had access. 157 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 2: To information, as you said, about the family's finances through 158 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:40,620 Speaker 2: her mother. But she is really the one that, to 159 00:09:40,660 --> 00:09:43,870 Speaker 2: your point, is the one that was giving all the orders. 160 00:09:44,270 --> 00:09:47,390 Speaker 2: And to this day, she's the one that hasn't been captured. 161 00:09:47,450 --> 00:09:50,550 Speaker 3: Yeah. still a large town which is. 162 00:09:50,610 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 2: Wild but right it brings up the interesting point of 163 00:09:53,820 --> 00:09:58,100 Speaker 2: this young boy taking these orders from her you know 164 00:09:58,140 --> 00:10:01,819 Speaker 2: there's a sort of like you could imagine he doesn't 165 00:10:01,860 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 2: have maybe any mother figure in his life or doesn't 166 00:10:05,300 --> 00:10:07,660 Speaker 2: have those sorts of support systems. 167 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:10,620 Speaker 1: And then that's how you get involved in this sort 168 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:11,059 Speaker 1: of stuff. 169 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 3: Yeah. 170 00:10:12,140 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 4: And there was actually for one of the audition pieces, 171 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:18,179 Speaker 4: there was a scene that sort of explored the dynamic 172 00:10:18,220 --> 00:10:22,250 Speaker 4: between the group. where there's arguments about what. 173 00:10:22,170 --> 00:10:22,709 Speaker 3: They should do. 174 00:10:22,730 --> 00:10:25,790 Speaker 4: We never made the final cut or we never even 175 00:10:25,830 --> 00:10:28,570 Speaker 4: shot it, which is understandable. When you're telling a story 176 00:10:28,590 --> 00:10:33,949 Speaker 4: like this, the emphasis has to be on the protagonist 177 00:10:34,010 --> 00:10:34,610 Speaker 4: or the victim. 178 00:10:34,630 --> 00:10:35,810 Speaker 3: You really want to tell that story. 179 00:10:36,510 --> 00:10:39,530 Speaker 4: Whereas I think for the most part, sometimes when it 180 00:10:39,570 --> 00:10:42,770 Speaker 4: comes to feature films being very limited, you don't really 181 00:10:42,809 --> 00:10:45,070 Speaker 4: have too much time to explore. 182 00:10:45,050 --> 00:10:45,650 Speaker 3: The bad guy. 183 00:10:46,110 --> 00:10:49,100 Speaker 4: It's easier to kind of, just give them that role 184 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:53,310 Speaker 4: and not, you know, somebody who does bad is considered bad. So, 185 00:10:53,590 --> 00:10:55,910 Speaker 4: you know, there's a lot more nuance in there for sure. 186 00:10:55,929 --> 00:10:58,970 Speaker 4: We just didn't have time to elaborate that, but, but yeah, 187 00:10:58,990 --> 00:11:03,010 Speaker 4: I think, you know, as the situation began unraveling, Oscar 188 00:11:03,050 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 4: was more willing to, to, to, to save himself and 189 00:11:07,780 --> 00:11:09,700 Speaker 4: to pull the trigger at the end there, even if 190 00:11:10,420 --> 00:11:12,740 Speaker 4: maybe there wasn't, that wasn't the plan or anything. 191 00:11:12,780 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 3: It was just the cops are, she's out of the house. 192 00:11:16,660 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 3: Things are going on. I need to make sure this 193 00:11:18,820 --> 00:11:19,740 Speaker 3: doesn't fall back on me. 194 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:20,559 Speaker 1: Right. 195 00:11:34,630 --> 00:11:38,630 Speaker 2: So during their real crime, Ruben, who is Ruben's, who's 196 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:42,980 Speaker 2: Marcello's husband, testified that the kidnappers put a gun in 197 00:11:43,020 --> 00:11:45,650 Speaker 2: his mouth. And at another point, He said they played 198 00:11:45,710 --> 00:11:49,500 Speaker 2: Russian roulette with him and his five-year-old son, Ryan, which 199 00:11:50,030 --> 00:11:53,080 Speaker 2: was partly portrayed in the film, but is also just 200 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 2: fiercely disturbing. When you learned those details, did that change 201 00:11:59,500 --> 00:12:03,050 Speaker 2: your understanding of the people involved and how much darker 202 00:12:03,110 --> 00:12:04,349 Speaker 2: it really was? 203 00:12:05,090 --> 00:12:06,690 Speaker 3: Yeah, it definitely did. 204 00:12:06,710 --> 00:12:10,250 Speaker 4: I mean, to play Russian roulette with a child is, 205 00:12:11,450 --> 00:12:15,780 Speaker 4: you know, it can't get much darker than that. Um, 206 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:19,740 Speaker 4: but I think, you know, having to make a character 207 00:12:19,780 --> 00:12:22,020 Speaker 4: choice of, you know, where did that come from? 208 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:22,940 Speaker 3: Is this person just. 209 00:12:22,780 --> 00:12:27,540 Speaker 4: Inherently evil or is it, you know, how desperate am 210 00:12:27,580 --> 00:12:29,380 Speaker 4: I trying to get this money out of this family? 211 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:34,020 Speaker 4: What am I willing to, um, you know, gamble with the, 212 00:12:34,220 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 4: the life of their child. And even to the point 213 00:12:36,740 --> 00:12:37,559 Speaker 4: where if that's. 214 00:12:37,340 --> 00:12:39,439 Speaker 3: Not enough, they're still only saying they have this much 215 00:12:39,500 --> 00:12:42,730 Speaker 3: money then. Okay. That must be true. Um, but, but yeah, 216 00:12:42,780 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 3: I mean, that is. horrendous, you know, act. And it's 217 00:12:49,300 --> 00:12:50,579 Speaker 3: unforgivable in a sense, right? 218 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:54,020 Speaker 4: Like, you know, sure, there's whatever, if you want to 219 00:12:54,059 --> 00:12:57,100 Speaker 4: play a game of odds with Russian roulette, there's still 220 00:12:57,140 --> 00:13:00,820 Speaker 4: the chance that that can go off and harm, if 221 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:06,380 Speaker 4: not kill the child. So, yeah, it's definitely a difficult 222 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 4: thing to try to comprehend and empathize with. But again, 223 00:13:10,210 --> 00:13:15,050 Speaker 4: like the decision is just, I believe that my understanding 224 00:13:15,070 --> 00:13:16,970 Speaker 4: for that was okay well we just need to terrify 225 00:13:17,010 --> 00:13:19,750 Speaker 4: the as much as we can and this is a 226 00:13:20,150 --> 00:13:20,970 Speaker 4: yeah this is. 227 00:13:20,950 --> 00:13:25,180 Speaker 2: A device for that because marcella later told the police 228 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 2: that she could hear her husband crying and she could 229 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 2: hear the gun the click click click like that kind 230 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:35,490 Speaker 2: of you know that that sort of terror it's like 231 00:13:35,540 --> 00:13:39,370 Speaker 2: true terrorism to to frighten people like that and she 232 00:13:39,410 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 2: has um in the um She gave an impact statement 233 00:13:46,610 --> 00:13:52,309 Speaker 2: when Sanchez and Santiz, who were the other two, your counterparts, 234 00:13:52,890 --> 00:13:56,189 Speaker 2: during the trial, in the impact statement, she said that 235 00:13:56,270 --> 00:14:00,900 Speaker 2: her son still couldn't go outside, that he primarily stays inside. 236 00:14:01,220 --> 00:14:04,540 Speaker 2: And they've, as we mentioned, maintained a very private life 237 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 2: since then. 238 00:14:07,059 --> 00:14:10,530 Speaker 1: And it's really scary. 239 00:14:11,380 --> 00:14:14,100 Speaker 2: Given all of that, do you feel like Oscar was 240 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 2: a leader in the group or a follower or just 241 00:14:18,980 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 2: like how, where do you feel like he fits into 242 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:23,830 Speaker 2: the whole dynamic? 243 00:14:23,950 --> 00:14:28,150 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's important to take his age into 244 00:14:28,210 --> 00:14:31,790 Speaker 4: consideration just because, you know, when you're young, you're super, 245 00:14:33,310 --> 00:14:35,630 Speaker 4: it's really. 246 00:14:35,110 --> 00:14:36,550 Speaker 3: Impressionable by the wrong crowd. 247 00:14:37,350 --> 00:14:40,550 Speaker 4: And, you know, the amount of autonomy you have, especially 248 00:14:40,590 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 4: in a group dynamic where, you know, I imagine being 249 00:14:45,100 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 4: Latino and from Honduras and Florida, it's a very specific community. 250 00:14:48,980 --> 00:14:53,460 Speaker 4: So I think there is that mob mentality of wanting 251 00:14:53,500 --> 00:14:54,660 Speaker 4: to be involved. 252 00:14:54,300 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 3: In what the people around you and the people you 253 00:14:56,210 --> 00:15:00,010 Speaker 3: know are involved with. So, you know, I don't necessarily 254 00:15:00,150 --> 00:15:04,050 Speaker 3: think that he was... you know, really in on a lot. 255 00:15:03,910 --> 00:15:06,430 Speaker 4: Of the decisions, maybe in the moment, during while in 256 00:15:06,470 --> 00:15:10,370 Speaker 4: those three days that they abducted the family. But as 257 00:15:10,670 --> 00:15:14,050 Speaker 4: far as, you know, who was the person behind the plan, 258 00:15:14,110 --> 00:15:15,910 Speaker 4: I definitely think Bianca. 259 00:15:16,430 --> 00:15:17,770 Speaker 3: Yeah. 260 00:15:18,470 --> 00:15:22,250 Speaker 4: And, you know, manipulated her way into, you know, having 261 00:15:22,290 --> 00:15:25,860 Speaker 4: the help and, and also like, you know, manipulating the 262 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:27,300 Speaker 4: situation in which she ultimately was. 263 00:15:27,220 --> 00:15:30,460 Speaker 3: The one who escaped and everyone else kind of took 264 00:15:30,660 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 3: the fall. 265 00:15:31,380 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 1: Took the fall. 266 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 3: Right. 267 00:15:32,820 --> 00:15:35,700 Speaker 1: That is wild. 268 00:15:36,140 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 2: So during the struggle that Marcela pulls off Bianca's mask, 269 00:15:42,060 --> 00:15:46,220 Speaker 2: and according to the police account and also in the movie, 270 00:15:47,380 --> 00:15:51,590 Speaker 2: you know, Bianca essentially panicked because Marcela had seen her face. 271 00:15:51,670 --> 00:15:55,550 Speaker 2: And do you think that's the moment when she realized, oh, 272 00:15:55,670 --> 00:15:59,290 Speaker 2: we really, these people are going to kill us now? 273 00:15:59,310 --> 00:16:02,930 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, for sure. I mean, Again, you know, 274 00:16:02,970 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 4: three days of being captured and terrorized. You know, I 275 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:10,239 Speaker 4: just can't help but think there's a version of this 276 00:16:10,340 --> 00:16:15,500 Speaker 4: in which, you know, they kind of, it's. 277 00:16:15,420 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 3: One of those situations you walk in and there's not, 278 00:16:17,180 --> 00:16:18,140 Speaker 3: it's kind of a cold case. 279 00:16:18,180 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 4: So thankfully, I mean, again, I can't imagine being in 280 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:24,660 Speaker 4: that situation, but I think the desperation of having to 281 00:16:24,700 --> 00:16:28,950 Speaker 4: escape and knowing what's coming and Marcela, you know, really 282 00:16:29,950 --> 00:16:30,650 Speaker 4: being the one. 283 00:16:30,590 --> 00:16:31,630 Speaker 3: To rescue herself. 284 00:16:32,490 --> 00:16:36,350 Speaker 4: That led to ultimately, you know, saving her family and 285 00:16:36,370 --> 00:16:40,690 Speaker 4: the arrest of, you know, the perpetrators. Um, so yeah, 286 00:16:40,730 --> 00:16:45,070 Speaker 4: I definitely think that realization, the notion that, you know, 287 00:16:45,090 --> 00:16:46,410 Speaker 4: they're going to have to get rid of us because 288 00:16:46,450 --> 00:16:49,530 Speaker 4: we've seen too much now is, uh, probably was probably 289 00:16:49,550 --> 00:16:51,980 Speaker 4: a really big influence on, on, on the risks that 290 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:52,340 Speaker 4: she took. 291 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:53,260 Speaker 1: Right. 292 00:16:53,500 --> 00:16:58,340 Speaker 2: Because she, uh, you know, to be clear, uh, Marcella 293 00:16:58,420 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 2: ultimately freed her hands, jumps backwards from a second story 294 00:17:03,220 --> 00:17:06,980 Speaker 2: window with her feet still bound together with tape, and 295 00:17:07,020 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 2: she landed between two air conditioning units and then got 296 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 2: up and ran somehow. And then while she was running 297 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:15,460 Speaker 2: is when. 298 00:17:15,580 --> 00:17:17,380 Speaker 1: Your character shoots her. 299 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:20,200 Speaker 2: So does that, this is going to sound like a 300 00:17:20,260 --> 00:17:23,679 Speaker 2: ridiculous question, but does that moment strike you as. 301 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:29,340 Speaker 2: You know, how powerful a survival instinct can become on 302 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,109 Speaker 2: both sides, really, both your character and hers. 303 00:17:33,270 --> 00:17:33,570 Speaker 4: Yeah. 304 00:17:33,710 --> 00:17:34,150 Speaker 3: Yeah. 305 00:17:34,470 --> 00:17:37,770 Speaker 4: I mean, you know, from, like, I mean, that's an 306 00:17:37,810 --> 00:17:40,390 Speaker 4: interesting question because, you know, I never took the other 307 00:17:40,430 --> 00:17:41,210 Speaker 4: side of the coin there. 308 00:17:42,710 --> 00:17:42,850 Speaker 3: Yeah. 309 00:17:42,869 --> 00:17:45,970 Speaker 4: I think both parties are acting outside of, or in 310 00:17:46,050 --> 00:17:52,100 Speaker 4: this desperation of, you know, survival. I think the family 311 00:17:52,140 --> 00:17:55,820 Speaker 4: component is definitely a, You know, I hear cases all 312 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 4: the time of people who, you know, are capable of 313 00:17:59,340 --> 00:18:03,930 Speaker 4: doing extraordinary things because a loved one's in danger. And 314 00:18:04,010 --> 00:18:10,930 Speaker 4: I think that can definitely be, you know, more, I guess, 315 00:18:10,990 --> 00:18:16,619 Speaker 4: more like, you know, celebrated with these stories of resilience 316 00:18:16,900 --> 00:18:22,410 Speaker 4: and bouncing back from trauma and tragedy and, you know, terror. Um, so, 317 00:18:22,710 --> 00:18:26,710 Speaker 4: so I definitely think that for Marcella was a giant component. Um, 318 00:18:26,859 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 4: and she was pregnant too. 319 00:18:27,820 --> 00:18:30,060 Speaker 3: Right. So that's a whole other thing. You know, it's, 320 00:18:30,100 --> 00:18:33,639 Speaker 3: you're carrying another life. So I can't even, I just 321 00:18:33,660 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 3: thinking about how brave. 322 00:18:37,420 --> 00:18:40,369 Speaker 1: Like the mother. I mean, listen, I'm a mom. 323 00:18:41,030 --> 00:18:43,389 Speaker 2: I have a 14 year old daughter and that fierce, 324 00:18:43,510 --> 00:18:48,270 Speaker 2: like I, I can imagine like you would do absolutely anything, 325 00:18:48,690 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 2: but the physicality of being pregnant is, and actually being 326 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 2: able to do those things and survive and their child is, 327 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:03,360 Speaker 2: is alive and well, it's kind of just unbelievable that, 328 00:19:03,740 --> 00:19:04,060 Speaker 2: I mean. 329 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:07,170 Speaker 3: It's ordinary. I mean, yeah. 330 00:19:07,210 --> 00:19:11,230 Speaker 4: Talk about strong and, you know, brave woman, you know, 331 00:19:11,270 --> 00:19:15,010 Speaker 4: you know, like, yeah, crazy, crazy, crazy. 332 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 2: So the three men, your character included, they were quickly 333 00:19:34,100 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 2: identified and arrested, but Bianca dos Santos, as we mentioned, escaped. 334 00:19:39,820 --> 00:19:43,330 Speaker 1: And today is still at large, which is unbelievable. 335 00:19:44,390 --> 00:19:46,990 Speaker 2: Were you stunned to learn that one of the people 336 00:19:47,130 --> 00:19:49,969 Speaker 2: accused of orchestrating something this horrific has never. 337 00:19:50,150 --> 00:19:51,250 Speaker 1: been brought to justice? 338 00:19:52,670 --> 00:19:55,650 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that was, it's kind of crazy to think 339 00:19:55,690 --> 00:19:58,130 Speaker 4: about in the world of, you know, modern technology. I mean, 340 00:19:58,390 --> 00:20:02,230 Speaker 4: even in 2009, where the story took place, you know, 341 00:20:02,260 --> 00:20:05,300 Speaker 4: there were a lot of resources that, you know, police 342 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:07,120 Speaker 4: could use to find. 343 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,970 Speaker 3: People quickly, to identify them. So, how she kind of 344 00:20:10,990 --> 00:20:12,929 Speaker 3: got through the holes. 345 00:20:13,030 --> 00:20:16,620 Speaker 4: Is again, I don't, I do think when you think 346 00:20:16,670 --> 00:20:20,199 Speaker 4: about the whole situation, I think the most calculated person 347 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 4: was Bianca. So sometimes when I think about, you know, 348 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:28,940 Speaker 4: her escape, you know, there is a level of intelligence. 349 00:20:28,980 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 4: Somebody has to be to, to one put together, you know, 350 00:20:33,580 --> 00:20:36,639 Speaker 4: this plan, but also to have contingencies in order to, 351 00:20:38,050 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 4: escaped and not be held accountable. Like the people that 352 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:45,420 Speaker 4: she hired or she manipulated in order to, to be 353 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:46,879 Speaker 4: her handyman. 354 00:20:47,340 --> 00:20:47,679 Speaker 3: Right. 355 00:20:48,300 --> 00:20:52,119 Speaker 4: So, yeah, I do think that, yeah, I mean, obviously 356 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:56,939 Speaker 4: horrible person. Um, but yeah, the level of intelligence she 357 00:20:56,980 --> 00:20:58,419 Speaker 4: needed to, to, to do that. 358 00:20:59,440 --> 00:20:59,790 Speaker 3: Right. 359 00:21:00,630 --> 00:21:03,130 Speaker 2: And then she, I mean, ultimately it's, it seems like 360 00:21:03,190 --> 00:21:07,970 Speaker 2: she had, you know, essentially the wrong information, like fundamentally 361 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:13,540 Speaker 2: incorrect facts that was the whole source, an impetus for 362 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:17,899 Speaker 2: them to commit this crime. So probably her anger was 363 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:24,700 Speaker 2: pretty extensive also for discovering that she really made a mistake. 364 00:21:25,380 --> 00:21:29,830 Speaker 2: So Oscar's story took a completely different turn. So before 365 00:21:30,050 --> 00:21:34,510 Speaker 2: his trial, He attempted suicide in the Orange County Jail 366 00:21:34,810 --> 00:21:38,750 Speaker 2: and suffered catastrophic brain damage, and this left him in 367 00:21:38,790 --> 00:21:43,020 Speaker 2: a vegetative state. He had been facing 11 felony charges, 368 00:21:43,230 --> 00:21:47,940 Speaker 2: including attempted murder, but because of his condition, he was 369 00:21:48,060 --> 00:21:54,220 Speaker 2: never tried. So do you see that as justice left unfinished? 370 00:21:54,820 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I do, in a sense. 371 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,020 Speaker 4: You know, I kind of revisited that whole aspect of 372 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:06,420 Speaker 4: the story afterwards because more information was available. And, you know, 373 00:22:06,869 --> 00:22:11,410 Speaker 4: for Marcella's sake, I think, you know, because of what 374 00:22:11,510 --> 00:22:16,410 Speaker 4: Oscar did to himself, it really prolonged the prosecution. And, 375 00:22:16,790 --> 00:22:18,890 Speaker 4: you know, it was costing the jail supposedly a lot 376 00:22:18,910 --> 00:22:22,020 Speaker 4: of money because of, you know, he couldn't eat. He 377 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,790 Speaker 4: had to be fed through tubes and, Um, and I 378 00:22:24,830 --> 00:22:26,669 Speaker 4: think it was, I believe it was Oscar's mom who 379 00:22:26,710 --> 00:22:30,230 Speaker 4: requested for him to go back to Honduras. And at 380 00:22:30,290 --> 00:22:33,909 Speaker 4: first Marcella, you know, she wanted him to, to, to 381 00:22:33,950 --> 00:22:36,030 Speaker 4: take accountability for what he did, you know, regardless and 382 00:22:36,050 --> 00:22:40,189 Speaker 4: totally understandable. Um, but I think as time kept going and, 383 00:22:40,550 --> 00:22:43,869 Speaker 4: you know, she still had to be involved with the 384 00:22:43,910 --> 00:22:48,730 Speaker 4: people who essentially ruined a good portion of her life. Um, 385 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:51,700 Speaker 4: especially the, the individual who paralyzed her for a time. 386 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 3: Uh, I think. 387 00:22:54,770 --> 00:22:58,050 Speaker 4: Because you know, there is, I mean, in the story 388 00:22:58,070 --> 00:23:01,869 Speaker 4: there is, she does ultimately forgive him. Um, but I 389 00:23:01,970 --> 00:23:04,730 Speaker 4: definitely think, I mean, one, like that came from a 390 00:23:04,770 --> 00:23:06,830 Speaker 4: very personal place from her, cause that's not easy to do, 391 00:23:06,869 --> 00:23:08,369 Speaker 4: but I think it also came from a place of 392 00:23:08,410 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 4: just wanting to shed herself of the trauma of the past. Um, 393 00:23:14,150 --> 00:23:17,419 Speaker 4: but I, but I do think that, I mean, yeah, 394 00:23:19,220 --> 00:23:21,919 Speaker 4: you know, accountability is an important thing. And I think 395 00:23:21,940 --> 00:23:24,490 Speaker 4: there's a lot to kind of investigate there. What's, how 396 00:23:24,510 --> 00:23:27,910 Speaker 4: does somebody pay the price when they're no longer able 397 00:23:27,950 --> 00:23:28,650 Speaker 4: to physically? 398 00:23:29,109 --> 00:23:30,090 Speaker 3: Right. Right. 399 00:23:30,330 --> 00:23:32,890 Speaker 1: And is that sort of the payment? 400 00:23:32,970 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 2: Like, is that the justice then that they don't essentially 401 00:23:36,820 --> 00:23:43,220 Speaker 2: have a livable life really? But this is the, those 402 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:46,440 Speaker 2: things are always such interesting questions in terms of like 403 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 2: for the victims. I always think about this because it, 404 00:23:49,020 --> 00:23:51,619 Speaker 2: it seems to be very different and a very individual, 405 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:57,860 Speaker 2: obviously kind of, uh, feeling you know people act see 406 00:23:57,940 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 2: justice or being able to move on in very different 407 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:05,159 Speaker 2: ways like some victims have really wanted to face the 408 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:09,650 Speaker 2: perpetrator in court and really see them you know admit 409 00:24:09,710 --> 00:24:12,790 Speaker 2: it and suffer and be put away others feel like 410 00:24:13,430 --> 00:24:15,570 Speaker 2: we need to move forward now we just it doesn't 411 00:24:15,690 --> 00:24:18,310 Speaker 2: it almost they just don't even want to you know 412 00:24:18,390 --> 00:24:24,910 Speaker 2: kind of acknowledge it anymore it's complicated it shouldn't I still, like, 413 00:24:25,030 --> 00:24:28,470 Speaker 2: how does someone that has orchestrated something this horrific, like, 414 00:24:28,890 --> 00:24:29,310 Speaker 2: I just. 415 00:24:29,210 --> 00:24:33,530 Speaker 1: Don't get it. How is she not caught? It's like, 416 00:24:33,670 --> 00:24:35,489 Speaker 1: it's mind-boggling to me. 417 00:24:35,510 --> 00:24:40,629 Speaker 4: Yeah, I remember on set, Anissa, the actress who plays Bianca, she, 418 00:24:40,690 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 4: you know, we were- She's very good. 419 00:24:42,060 --> 00:24:42,880 Speaker 1: She's very scary. 420 00:24:43,450 --> 00:24:45,629 Speaker 3: Yeah, we would make conspiracies about it. 421 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:47,740 Speaker 4: And, you know, this idea that, you know, if she 422 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:49,680 Speaker 4: was like one of the PAs on set and she was, 423 00:24:49,820 --> 00:24:51,640 Speaker 4: you know, getting off on. 424 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:53,260 Speaker 3: Like, oh, I'm in this movie. 425 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 4: Yeah. 426 00:24:54,150 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 3: Um, but no, yeah, yeah. I mean, I love, you know, 427 00:24:59,859 --> 00:25:00,300 Speaker 3: true crime. 428 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:02,229 Speaker 4: I read a lot about cold cases and stuff, but 429 00:25:02,260 --> 00:25:04,660 Speaker 4: you know, those are mostly in the seventies, whereas this 430 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:05,780 Speaker 4: is kind of time. 431 00:25:05,820 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 3: And yeah, it's, I mean, who knows what she's doing 432 00:25:09,500 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 3: right now? 433 00:25:10,140 --> 00:25:12,940 Speaker 2: I know she could be like Bugsy Siegel. Didn't they 434 00:25:12,980 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 2: catch him like 30 years later or something? 435 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:16,740 Speaker 1: I remember going to. 436 00:25:16,700 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 2: LA, like he was in Santa Monica at the, like, uh, 437 00:25:19,859 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 2: that bar on second street. I'm like, wait, what? 438 00:25:24,100 --> 00:25:27,020 Speaker 1: He was like shooting darts in there or something. 439 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,710 Speaker 4: Well, it's crazy now with like DNA and everything, you know, 440 00:25:29,730 --> 00:25:33,050 Speaker 4: they can, you know, sometimes the people have passed since 441 00:25:33,310 --> 00:25:35,350 Speaker 4: the crimes, but they know who it is and give 442 00:25:35,390 --> 00:25:37,330 Speaker 4: it a name and stuff. Right. Yeah. 443 00:25:37,390 --> 00:25:40,330 Speaker 3: It's true crime and the whole, yeah, it's crazy. 444 00:25:41,710 --> 00:25:44,169 Speaker 1: Well, Ivan, this has been so great. Thank you so 445 00:25:44,210 --> 00:25:45,460 Speaker 1: much for talking with me. 446 00:25:45,580 --> 00:25:49,859 Speaker 2: The movie is called Terror Comes Knocking, the Marcela Borges. 447 00:25:49,380 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 1: Story, and it is streaming on Netflix now. 448 00:25:52,609 --> 00:25:55,810 Speaker 2: Well, you're really great in this movie and I wish 449 00:25:55,850 --> 00:25:57,450 Speaker 2: you all the best with everything. 450 00:25:57,490 --> 00:26:00,630 Speaker 1: So I hope we get to our paths cross again. 451 00:26:00,650 --> 00:26:02,590 Speaker 3: Yeah, that'd be awesome. Thank you so much. 452 00:26:02,609 --> 00:26:04,629 Speaker 1: All right. Thanks, Ivan. Great to meet you.