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Speaker 1: Order of she's a fresh show. It's Kiki's court, alright,

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Speaker 1: it's the honor of old kikileik cow take it away.

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Speaker 1: Wow its sound effects too.

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Speaker 2: Okay, let's step into the courtroom. This case says, Hey, Kiki.

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Speaker 2: My name is Cassie, and I've gone no contact with

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Speaker 2: my mother and it's been the hardest thing I have

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Speaker 2: ever had to do. I am my mother's only living daughter.

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Speaker 2: I had an older sister that died a few months

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Speaker 2: after birth, so I never got a chance to meet her,

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Speaker 2: but my mother has made sure to keep her memory alive.

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Speaker 2: My mom talks about my sister all the time. Every year,

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Speaker 2: she makes the family celebrate my late sister's birthday. At

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Speaker 2: all of my graduations, my mom brings a picture of

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Speaker 2: my sister and sits it on the front seat of

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Speaker 2: the graduation in her memory. And if I'm being honest,

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Speaker 2: I feel like it's a bit weird considering how many

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Speaker 2: years it's been since my sister passed. My final straw

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Speaker 2: was while planning my wedding, my mom kept bringing up

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Speaker 2: my sister. She asks first if I would make her

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Speaker 2: an honorary bridesmaid and add her name to the wedding

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Speaker 2: website and programs. Then she took it a step further

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Speaker 2: and requested that I reserve and decorate a seat on

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Speaker 2: the front row of my wedding with a photo of

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Speaker 2: my sister for me.

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Speaker 3: That was the final straw.

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Speaker 2: I told my mom, please stop making your grief the

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Speaker 2: front page of our lives. My dad feels the same,

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Speaker 2: but he won't speak up, so I had to. I

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Speaker 2: told her, no, I will not add a grief session

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Speaker 2: to my wedding. This is supposed to be the happiest

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Speaker 2: day of my life. My mom called me selfish and

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Speaker 2: we haven't spoken in three months since the argument.

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Speaker 3: My wedding is coming up soon. Should I just.

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Speaker 2: Give in and let my mom steal my moment again?

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Speaker 2: Or should I stand my ground?

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Speaker 1: Now this isn't not that it matters but necessarily, but

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Speaker 1: it isn't the infant just after birth, right, So, like,

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Speaker 1: we're not talking about and again I'm not saying that

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Speaker 1: grief is grief. Losing a human being is what it is.

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Speaker 1: But we're not talking about someone you know, with whom

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Speaker 1: we shared a bond that well, maybe a bond, but

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Speaker 1: like we don't we never had a conversation with this person.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I'm just being clear of this. Yeah, the Cassie

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Speaker 2: has never met her sister. You know, her sister passed

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Speaker 2: before she was However, until that happens to you, I

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Speaker 2: feel like, as a parent losing a child, you don't

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Speaker 2: know what that feels like.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I'm not minimizing. I'm just trying to understand

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Speaker 1: the sort of the strength of the connection, how the

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Speaker 1: connection ties to the girl who's writing in the Kiki's chord,

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Speaker 1: who's wedding it is. You know, I don't know if

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Speaker 1: there was something that maybe they've been a little older

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Speaker 1: and they shared something together, like a hobby or a

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. You know what I mean? Yeah, Okay,

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Speaker 1: Like my grandfather was honored at my at my sister's wedding.

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Speaker 1: Now we didn't do like the whole empty chair thing,

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Speaker 1: but like I don't know, everybody there knew him and

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Speaker 1: and everyone was sad that he wasn't there, and there

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Speaker 1: was context, and so I understood that completely anyway.

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Speaker 2: And that's just that your sister's decisions. Yeah, right, right,

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Speaker 2: deision though exactly. So this really has me torn, honestly,

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Speaker 2: Like I've you know, I've lost siblings before, and I

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Speaker 2: understand the pain that her mom may feel. But again,

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Speaker 2: this is her wedding and it is her day, and

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Speaker 2: you have made your grief the front page of it

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Speaker 2: seems like all of her biggest moments in life, and

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Speaker 2: I hate that for Cassie. So I do feel like

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Speaker 2: in this instance, like you should. I don't think you

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Speaker 2: should go no contact with your mom. I don't think

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Speaker 2: you should she shouldn't come to the wedding. I think

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Speaker 2: you all should have a nice little conversation. Your mom

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Speaker 2: needs some therapy. I think some type of grief counseling

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Speaker 2: that is overdue and she really needs that. And I

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Speaker 2: feel like if you can help her in any way

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Speaker 2: to get that, then you guys can move forward. But

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Speaker 2: I don't think that you need to make that the

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Speaker 2: center of your wedding if that's not what you're comfortable with,

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Speaker 2: because at the end of the day, it is your wedding.

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Speaker 2: And so Cassie, I think you know, if your mom

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Speaker 2: can't compromise in that, in that arena, then I think you.

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Speaker 3: Should stand your And I know that's tough.

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Speaker 2: I mean, who doesn't want their mother at their wedding,

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Speaker 2: But like, she can't keep taking over your moments with

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Speaker 2: her grief.

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Speaker 3: I feel you on that.

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Speaker 1: You guys are the Jerry eight five five three five

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Speaker 1: mm hmm.

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Speaker 3: It's so tough.

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Speaker 4: She's in that shadow that she can never get out of.

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Speaker 3: Right, she didn't ask, right, you know, ask for that?

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Speaker 5: And oh yeah, maybe she can go to therapy like

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Speaker 5: with her mom, because obviously she's her mother's only living child.

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Speaker 3: I'm assuming, yep. So I think that further rest of

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Speaker 3: their lives.

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Speaker 5: I think this is something that's going to come up

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Speaker 5: or like at least effect both of them.

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Speaker 3: And I don't think losing a child is.

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Speaker 5: Easy at age one hundred, you know, if your kid's

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Speaker 5: a hundred, or if your kid is you know, five

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Speaker 5: days old, I think it's it's so tough either way, right,

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Speaker 5: But this is.

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Speaker 1: About the mom, because that's why I was trying to

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Speaker 1: quantify that the nature of the connection between the bride

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Speaker 1: and her sister, and there isn't one you never met

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Speaker 1: because this this day is about the bride, It is

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Speaker 1: not about the mom, and the mom is as you know,

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Speaker 1: projecting her her grief onto not only her living child,

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Speaker 1: but also this day and it seems like everything else.

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Speaker 1: And so that that's why I kind of wanted to understand,

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Speaker 1: Like women's it just so we're clear here they never

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Speaker 1: even met, no, and so she's she clearly isn't processing

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Speaker 1: this well. And it's to your point, this, this poor

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Speaker 1: girl is living in the shadow of this, you know, this,

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Speaker 1: this deceased young girl who she never knew it. She's

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Speaker 1: not her fault, it's not it's Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And then like the fact that the father he feels

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Speaker 2: the same. He agrees with Cassie, but he won't speak

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Speaker 2: up to his wife. I mean that's even hard too.

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Speaker 2: So I feel like maybe there needs to be a

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Speaker 2: family therapy session.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, with the mom.

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Speaker 2: That kind of happens because God, like I cannot imagine

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Speaker 2: if every one of my moments' is like, oh but

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Speaker 2: if your.

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Speaker 4: Sister, you know, like your sister were here, Yeah, your

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Speaker 4: sister were here.

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Speaker 1: It's just so said.

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Speaker 3: She's got to work through it. It's really sad, but

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Speaker 3: she has to work through it.

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Speaker 1: The mom does, man, Yeah, right, because it's like everything

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Speaker 1: you do, it's like you don't amount to this this

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Speaker 1: figure of this person who never got to live, right,

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Speaker 1: But you are living, and you are here and you're

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Speaker 1: able to fulfill you know, sort of this role, but

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Speaker 1: it's like it's not good enough because because this other

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Speaker 1: child's not there. Man, that's really hard.

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Speaker 4: The mom props are having another child after losing a child.

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Speaker 4: That's got to be super tough. Yeah, to make the

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Speaker 4: decision to have another child, but to have that you're

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Speaker 4: overshadowing that.

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Speaker 1: She can't keep putting us on the living the living child,

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Speaker 1: and now look at what's hapening. She stands to lose

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Speaker 1: her living child too because this kid can't get out

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Speaker 1: from under the other one. Yeah, I mean there's there's

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Speaker 1: definitely some grieving that needs to happen, and yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think therapy's a good idea. Hey Emily, good morning, Hey Emily, Hi,

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Speaker 1: welcome to Keiki's court. What do you want to say?

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Speaker 6: Okay, first off, I totally do sympathize with every sympathize. Wow,

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Speaker 6: I can talk this morning.

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Speaker 1: That's okay. We can never we most days we can't talk.

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Speaker 1: So it's no big deal.

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Speaker 6: Love it anyways. Like the mom I feel, I do

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Speaker 6: feel for her, I really do. But she would never

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Speaker 6: be asked to share the spotlight or split her wedding

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Speaker 6: day with someone who was alive. I understand. You know,

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Speaker 6: honoring people, you know, with nice photos, the empty chair

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Speaker 6: even you know, if that's what you choose to do. However,

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Speaker 6: I feel like the wedding should be the one event

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Speaker 6: where the mom understands, like, you know, the spotlight should

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Speaker 6: be on her daughter and her daughter's marriage and the fiance.

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Speaker 6: And you know, it's like it's if this is the

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Speaker 6: one thing the mom can rely and let the sister

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Speaker 6: go for the days she should.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is hard.

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Speaker 3: It's so hard. Like I usually am, you know, pretty one.

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Speaker 2: Side, but this time I was like, uh, I need

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Speaker 2: to know what you all think, because I mean, for me,

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Speaker 2: I've lost the sibling, but we had a relationship.

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Speaker 3: You know, we were really close.

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Speaker 2: So he will be whenever I find a man, he

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Speaker 2: will be honored at my wedding. I think about him

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Speaker 2: on my biggest days.

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Speaker 1: But that's my that's your call.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's your call to do that, you know, right

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Speaker 3: right right at least go ahead.

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Speaker 6: I think that's the bad part is because the mom

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Speaker 6: is forced it on her all these years. You know,

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Speaker 6: it's almost making her feel resentful of someone you've never met,

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Speaker 6: and like.

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Speaker 1: That's not fair to her either, yea, yeah, yeah, Emily,

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Speaker 1: thank you, have a good day.

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Speaker 3: You too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't even make jokes about this.

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Speaker 3: No, it's not funny.

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Speaker 7: You know, you know me.

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Speaker 1: I'll try light in the mood a little bit, but

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Speaker 1: I can't joke. You're not going you're not going to

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Speaker 1: You're not going to, right. But I'll tell you something

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Speaker 1: like and I this isn't this doesn't happen in my

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Speaker 1: life personally. But and I don't want to get like

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Speaker 1: too much into anyone else's business. But I know I've

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Speaker 1: watched in my life someone have to live not in

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Speaker 1: the shadow per se, but sort of always being compared

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Speaker 1: to someone who doesn't live up to the level that

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Speaker 1: that person is by their parents. It's like someone in

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Speaker 1: the someone who's not carrying their weight, is always being

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Speaker 1: lifted up while the other family members are having to

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Speaker 1: to sort of do all the work while this other

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Speaker 1: person does nothing, but like every little thing they do

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Speaker 1: is the greatest thing they've ever seen. It's very painful.

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Speaker 3: Oh that's so annoying.

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Speaker 1: It's very painful for the person I'm thinking of here.

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Speaker 1: And and in this case, that person didn't even get

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Speaker 1: to live a life, and yet it is still being compared.

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Speaker 1: It's like, what about me?

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Speaker 8: Right?

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Speaker 1: You know?

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Speaker 2: It's like because they do the least all the time,

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Speaker 2: the moment they actually do something, it's like yay.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my god, exactly, yeah, like what yeah, no, exactly,

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Speaker 1: It's like what about me? It's like, well, but we

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Speaker 1: expect more from me, But why why don't I expect

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Speaker 1: more from me? Why can't I be the loser? Why

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Speaker 1: can't I? Why can't I? Why can't I just be

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Speaker 1: above the loser standard?

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Speaker 7: Here?

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Speaker 1: You know? Yes? Yeah, yeah, Claire.

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Speaker 9: Hi, good morning, Hi, good morning?

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Speaker 1: Hey, would you kiki skirt? What you want to say?

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Speaker 9: Yeah? I just wanted to say it. So I'm in

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Speaker 9: the mom's shoes. So I actually did lose my first

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Speaker 9: baby and I had another. Yes, thank you. It's hard,

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Speaker 9: so like I have to deal with my own grief,

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Speaker 9: but I don't want to put that on my living son.

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Speaker 9: And my living son he never met my son that

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Speaker 9: passed away, so it's like I don't want to take

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Speaker 9: away from any of his big moments. But at the

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Speaker 9: same time, it's like kind of a battle too. Like

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Speaker 9: Christmas cards, do I put like a picture of my

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Speaker 9: son that passed because I want to like honor him

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Speaker 9: and remember him, and I don't want people to forget

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Speaker 9: that he was around to it one time. But at

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Speaker 9: the same time, it's like I don't want to overshadow

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Speaker 9: my living son.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, and I think you should do what

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Speaker 2: makes you feel good, what makes you feel comfortable in

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Speaker 2: that you know, you're not you're not putting pressure on

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Speaker 2: your kids to do something.

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Speaker 1: But it's not like your living son's birthday party. We're

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Speaker 1: having like this whole thing for the one you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean, it's like that that. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: the major issue here, well, it's one that she feels

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Speaker 1: like she's does she can never amount to what this

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Speaker 1: what this this spirit of this other person or what

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Speaker 1: could have been too it's being projected onto her day.

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Speaker 1: That's the biggest thing for me, Like if the mom

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Speaker 1: needs to grieve on the birthday, or the mom needs

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Speaker 1: to grieve privately, or the mom wants to have a

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Speaker 1: picture in the house or not, we don't have to

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Speaker 1: forget this person existed, but not on my birthday, not

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Speaker 1: on my wedding day, not on the day my kid's

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Speaker 1: born or whatever else is because that's about me, right, Yeah, Yeah.

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Speaker 9: It's like that's that's one of the big things for me,

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Speaker 9: is like I never want my son to feel like

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Speaker 9: he's in the shadow, because like I don't want to

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Speaker 9: put that burden on him. So yeah, yeah, definitely agree

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Speaker 9: with on this one.

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Speaker 1: Well, Clai, thank you for sharing. I'm sorry for your loss.

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Speaker 1: I know it's a very very personal thing to call

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Speaker 1: and talk about, so thank you. Yeah, have a good day,

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Speaker 1: glad you called. Hey, Gabby, good morning, good morning.

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Speaker 9: How are you?

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Speaker 1: Hey? Great? What do you want to say?

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Speaker 8: So I actually can speak from personal experience about this.

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Speaker 8: I lost my baby actually in May.

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Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. Sorry, I really think.

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Speaker 8: That, like for the first time ever, I like disagree

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Speaker 8: with you guys just a little bit because unfortunately, like

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Speaker 8: you can't pick and choose like when your grief comes

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Speaker 8: and goes. And I understand, like the daughter may not

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Speaker 8: have met her sister and things like that, but I'm

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Speaker 8: actually pregnant again.

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Speaker 9: Thank you. So I just I just think that, like it's.

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Speaker 3: Kind of a fine line.

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Speaker 9: And I see where the mom is coming from.

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Speaker 8: I see where the daughter's coming from, but I think like,

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Speaker 8: unfortunately the mom doesn't get to pick and choose when

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Speaker 8: she grieves her other child.

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Speaker 1: You know, Yeahvy, do you see how like there's a

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Speaker 1: time and a place like, I mean totally three hundred

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Speaker 1: and sixty four days a year, and at least internally,

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Speaker 1: you can acknowledge that. And I have no idea what

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Speaker 1: that's like. I'll never know. I'm not obviously not going

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Speaker 1: to be a mother. I'm not going to carry a child.

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Speaker 1: Hopefully I never lose a child, but like this, this

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Speaker 1: is a day that is definitively not about the mom. Yeah.

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Speaker 8: So we actually attended a wedding a couple of months

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Speaker 8: ago and there was a it was a close family member,

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Speaker 8: and there was a memorial table and they didn't honor

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Speaker 8: our daughter who passed away. And I was like a

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Speaker 8: little bit salty about that, but we kind of we

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Speaker 8: kind of just acknowledged it and left it as it was.

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Speaker 8: But I think for some people, when it's a baby,

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Speaker 8: like they don't understand the like the grasp of it,

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Speaker 8: like like you said, when it's an adult, like, oh well,

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Speaker 8: we had a conversation with that person, we talked to them,

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Speaker 8: we related to them, but like when it's a baby,

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Speaker 8: I think it's different for people.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, all right, well Gabby, thank I'm sorry for

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Speaker 1: your lost congratulations and thank you for calling.

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Speaker 6: Thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: Have a good day you too, Oh, that is true.

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Speaker 2: I feel like sometimes people don't give the same like

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Speaker 2: weight of grief of a baby versus a person an

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Speaker 2: adult life, you know, and it really hurts the same,

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Speaker 2: It hits the same, and you can never tell when

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Speaker 2: it's when a person will get over it. But I

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Speaker 2: just think, you know, it's on our it's on us

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Speaker 2: to control our grief and to deal with it and

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Speaker 2: get the tools that we need to get to continue life.

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Speaker 2: And we can't project that on everybody else, you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I just keep going back to a time and

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Speaker 1: a place.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it hurts more like with the promise of like

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Speaker 2: what could have been, like.

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Speaker 1: You had for your baby or you know, obviously like

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Speaker 1: I was thinking that, Klin. But it's hard. It's hard

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Speaker 1: to quantify, right, Like, yeah, it's sure what could have been,

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Speaker 1: But also does that make it any more or less

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Speaker 1: said than if someone who we knew what could have

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Speaker 1: been and they died and maybe weren't able to achieve it.

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Speaker 1: You know, It's it's so hard to say. It's in

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Speaker 1: the eye of the beholder. I think, hey, Melissa, this

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Speaker 1: is happening to.

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Speaker 7: You, well, not not necessarily, but yes, I'm in the

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Speaker 7: process of wedding planning. My mom did this little girl

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Speaker 7: before I did. And you know Devil's advocate here, maybe

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Speaker 7: the mom's not being aspushy as it's being played out

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Speaker 7: to be.

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Speaker 8: I don't know.

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Speaker 7: My mom has been dropping hands here and there, just

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Speaker 7: somethings that I should do, the things that I could include,

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Speaker 7: and I take it. I take it into consideration. If

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Speaker 7: it's something that works, when I'll include it. If it's

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Speaker 7: something that doesn't, then then no, And it's worth at

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Speaker 7: least discussing if she has a strong opinion on it. Obviously,

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Speaker 7: this he's like a touchy subject.

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Speaker 1: So let me ask you this, Melissa. Do you I

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Speaker 1: don't have to know that all the context is obviously

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Speaker 1: very private, but have you always felt like you're living

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Speaker 1: in this? Because this seems like more than just about

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Speaker 1: the day. This seems like something that's a theme, like

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Speaker 1: that she's constantly being reminded of this other child that

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Speaker 1: could have been and is into all these things, and

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Speaker 1: now on my wedding day, you're going to pile it

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Speaker 1: on and do it again. I suppose if it like,

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Speaker 1: if your mom makes you feel valued and makes you

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Speaker 1: feel like she's grateful for you and happy that you're

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Speaker 1: there and celebrates you. And then this one time she says,

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Speaker 1: what if we were to all honor so and so?

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Speaker 1: That's one thing, but I feel like this is like

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Speaker 1: enough is enough kind of a situation that's fair.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, I my mom has always been supportive of what

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Speaker 7: I do. I don't think that she's overbearing in her

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Speaker 7: her I guess past issues in this department, but yeah,

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Speaker 7: I don't know. I guess those topics are so sensitive

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Speaker 7: that sometimes we pick up on things that aren't there.

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Speaker 7: So maybe she's feeling these things. But it's not necessarily

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Speaker 7: the mom being overbearing about it. It's just this thing

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Speaker 7: that she didn't ask for that is brought up here

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Speaker 7: and there.

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Speaker 1: This just seems like it's bubbling over like again, I

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Speaker 1: don't know if yeah, if we're just coming up now,

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Speaker 1: like hey, we're getting the family together, this big milestone,

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Speaker 1: and man, were really great to honor so and so? Okay,

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Speaker 1: all right, but that's not as triggering as again, we're

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Speaker 1: going to do this again. What about me? It's my day,

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Speaker 1: you know.

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Speaker 7: And there's so many like tiktoks, reels whatever with wedding

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Speaker 7: ideas nowadays, like that the second you start wedding planning,

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Speaker 7: you get bombarded with everything wedding planning all the time.

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Speaker 7: So like, I'm sure this mom saw some sort of

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Speaker 7: TikTok videos somewhere out there that's like, hey, we can

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Speaker 7: include her and this is how we can do it,

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Speaker 7: and she maybe she's got a mindset.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Melissa, thank you and congratulations, see you too. Thanks,

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Speaker 1: have a good day. She's like, thanks them over it, dude,

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Speaker 1: this do the damn wedding.

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Speaker 8: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I feel like most people, it's like, oh, this is exciting.

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Speaker 1: Now I get to plan this whole thing and hear

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Speaker 1: what everybody else thinks about it too. The Entertainment Reporting

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Speaker 1: two minutes Fred Show