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Speaker 1: Hey, what up? Welcome in. I'm Doug Gotlieb and you

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Speaker 1: have downloaded and hopefully you'll subscribe in rate my all

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Speaker 1: ball podcast, All Basketball, All the Time on today's podcast. Now,

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Speaker 1: keep in mind this one is in the can as

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Speaker 1: of Wednesday, July three. You listen to this in the

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Speaker 1: fourth July or slightly beyond. There's not not all of

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Speaker 1: this is going to be dated. One part that will

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Speaker 1: be as Dan Wiki. We'll get his thoughts on the

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Speaker 1: Lakers and on the Clippers and on what they're doing

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Speaker 1: and how uh Kauai Leonard and his decision affects the

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Speaker 1: Lakers and the Clippers in the l A basketball Dan

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Speaker 1: writes for The l A Times. We'll also be joined

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Speaker 1: by Pat Garrity. Pat is the assistant general manager of

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Speaker 1: the Detroit Pistons UH. He's formerly the president of the

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Speaker 1: NBA p A. He also has a master's degree from

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Speaker 1: Duke University School of Business as well as an undergrad

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Speaker 1: from the University of Notre Dame. When he and I

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Speaker 1: played together for a year, and he's an unbelievably bright

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Speaker 1: guy with an amazing kind of personal story. Way tie

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Speaker 1: hear how he became an assistant general manager in the NBA,

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Speaker 1: and we'll also talk about the Blake Griffin trade and

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Speaker 1: how it actually happened, whose idea it really really was.

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Speaker 1: But let me give you a couple of different things,

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Speaker 1: a couple different thoughts before he get to Dan Wiki.

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Speaker 1: So look, I think I'm in line with just about

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Speaker 1: everybody on the Utah thing. I like the Jazz a lot,

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Speaker 1: and while Houston State pat and doesn't seem to be

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Speaker 1: happy about it, Golden State's gonna have to rebuild and

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Speaker 1: we'll try and figure out what they're gonna throw out there.

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Speaker 1: We're waiting to see if Kauai joins either of the

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Speaker 1: l A teams. Either one he he joins becomes a contender,

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Speaker 1: and if he joins the Lakers, they become a favorite.

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Speaker 1: The Spurs are still out there. The Mavericks should be better.

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Speaker 1: I think the Thunders should be better, and of course

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Speaker 1: they haven't been able to move Stephen Adams or den

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Speaker 1: A Shrewder to this point. But it's a long off season,

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Speaker 1: so I like the Jazz. You know, some things have

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Speaker 1: to go. Mike Conley has to stay healthy and it's

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Speaker 1: a long season. He makes a lot of money. He's

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Speaker 1: their point guard. They put a lot of shooting around

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Speaker 1: um around their best player. So I I get it.

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Speaker 1: I think I think he could work. I think you

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Speaker 1: could work. But at the Lakers aren't competitive at the

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Speaker 1: end of the year, I'd be surprised. And if the

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Speaker 1: Lakers aren't favorites at the end of the year, I'd

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Speaker 1: be surprised that the Lakers at Kwai Leonard, I do

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Speaker 1: think they're an overwhelming favorite. I'll only point this out

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Speaker 1: that there's some extenuating circumstances as to why it's okay

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Speaker 1: for Kauai to go to l A. He told San

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Speaker 1: Antonio that's where he wanted to go. It is in

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Speaker 1: fact the Laker, it is in fact home, and it's

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Speaker 1: not like his choices, Well, you could be five hours

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Speaker 1: from home or right here at home. Now his choice

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Speaker 1: is a different country, is a different country. But let's

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Speaker 1: get into what is the best decision. I mean, brand wise,

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Speaker 1: I think probably the Lakers. Basketball wise, probably the Clippers. Um.

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Speaker 1: But if you like the idea of hey, I can

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Speaker 1: always come back to l A and always be somebody

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Speaker 1: in l A and I own a whole country. Like

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Speaker 1: the Toronto thing is not a bad play. The Clipper

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Speaker 1: things seems to be, to be more how he wants

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Speaker 1: to play basketball. It just does the problem is you're

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Speaker 1: betting on the Clippers and their culture carrying over into

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Speaker 1: another year. And you know they will have Lou Williams

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Speaker 1: at Montrez Harold, They'll have Patrick Beverley and now they

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Speaker 1: hate to have a start to kind of go to

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Speaker 1: like I like all of those things, but you're gonna

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Speaker 1: try and do something that has literally never been done.

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Speaker 1: Like Toronto hadn't been done, but they had had some

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Speaker 1: form of playoffs success. The Clippers have had none. I

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Speaker 1: think he fits best for the Clippers, and I think

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Speaker 1: the fascinating point is that the Clippers have spent a

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Speaker 1: year try and do everything the right way in order

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Speaker 1: to get him, and now we have no idea if

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Speaker 1: that actually works. Like why they had Lee Jenkins, why

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Speaker 1: they fire Bruce bowing All just to get this one guy.

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Speaker 1: So um, I just a feel for the Clippers if

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Speaker 1: it doesn't go through. But it's not their fault. But

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Speaker 1: they would in fact still be the Clippers if they

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Speaker 1: didn't get them. The Lakers. Look, I think they're gonna

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Speaker 1: be fine. They got Anthony Davis, they got they got

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Speaker 1: Lebron James I don't think they're expecting. Expectations were to

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Speaker 1: get Kauai Leonard. I think they thought, you know, we

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Speaker 1: should have a shot this thing. I think it's become

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Speaker 1: a little bit. I got a little bit. They've got

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Speaker 1: a couple more dates than they thought they would get.

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Speaker 1: Like they thought, I will get that, we'll get to

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Speaker 1: have a drink with her. But now they've got to

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Speaker 1: have a drink. They've got a dinner, living, a dessert,

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Speaker 1: walked down the beach. Now they're going in right. And

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Speaker 1: then you have Toronto, who they haven't done anything wrong.

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Speaker 1: They moved mountains with no promises and got what they

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Speaker 1: wanted and throughout the absolutely red carpet, and they want

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Speaker 1: to contain their excitement. And while everybody's being told to

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Speaker 1: be quiet, Raptors fans somehow figured out where the meeting

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Speaker 1: is and they surround the place. They just want him

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Speaker 1: to know they love him, which I'm sure he knows.

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Speaker 1: And I can't blame Raptors fans. I will tell you, though,

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Speaker 1: it's a weird time in Los Angeles where Magic Johnson

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Speaker 1: is so attention starve that he's clearly leaked out stories

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Speaker 1: that I don't worry. I'm handling the Kauai thing so

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Speaker 1: that if they get Kauai magic gets some form of credit,

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Speaker 1: and if they don't, the blame is cast at the

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Speaker 1: foot of of Rob Lincoln, not not of Aggic Johnson.

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Speaker 1: However accurate that may be, that may be super actor it,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. It's not something you do unless, of course,

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Speaker 1: your magic and you're trying to save your brand when

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Speaker 1: other people have taken shots at it. But most of

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Speaker 1: the reason they've taken shots that is not on the court.

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Speaker 1: It's the fact that we all know you haven't showed

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Speaker 1: up ready to work every day for what's your job entails.

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Speaker 1: All Right, here's what we're gonna do. Dan Wicky is

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Speaker 1: gonna join us from the Early Times, get his thoughts

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Speaker 1: on all things kauaide Leonard, If, when, why, how, whatever,

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Speaker 1: and then we'll talk to Pat Garrity of the Detroit Pistons.

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Speaker 1: Here's my discussion with Dan wick of the l a Times. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so so Dan, let's uh, let's let's start with the Lakers,

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Speaker 1: because this is weird, right, Like the whole thing is

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Speaker 1: just I mean, I know some people in the organization,

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Speaker 1: I know you know, probably even more people in the

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Speaker 1: organization and people that have left the organization. Obviously there's

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Speaker 1: that kind of small group that's that's always been there. Um.

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Speaker 1: But you go from all right, Magic has a plan,

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Speaker 1: he in Polinka somehow kind of co in and co

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Speaker 1: existing to Magic calling Plinka backstabber, quitting early, going on TV,

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Speaker 1: kind of napalming the place. They still pull off the

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Speaker 1: Anthony Davis trade. Um, and now of a sudden they're

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Speaker 1: a finalist for Kauai, whereas everyone else thought no shot

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Speaker 1: that Kauai wanted to be there. How would you characterize

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Speaker 1: what this Laker thing has been like? I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think Douglas has been like a really big victory for

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Speaker 1: the Lakers as a brand. Right. It's it's a it's

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Speaker 1: a reminder I think of how strong the Purple and

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Speaker 1: Gold and the history and sort of the great superstars

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Speaker 1: have met, um, you know, to how important they still

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Speaker 1: are two people around the NBA. Because if we're being honest, Um,

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Speaker 1: the Lakers didn't do anything other than merely having the

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Speaker 1: cap space. They didn't do anything strategically right. They didn't

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Speaker 1: put together, um a wildly interesting young core to give

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Speaker 1: Lebron James. Um. They did it just kind of by

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Speaker 1: being in Los Angeles, right, like, this is how they

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Speaker 1: got him. Um and and because of their history and

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Speaker 1: because of what it means to be a Laker. Um,

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Speaker 1: the same kind of goes for getting Anthony Davis. Um.

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Speaker 1: Rob lincl you know certainly signed off on the trade,

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Speaker 1: but you know, pretty much just open up the wallet

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Speaker 1: and said, take whatever players you want, take whatever draft

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Speaker 1: picks you want. We have to get this done. And

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Speaker 1: they and they got that done. Um. You know, to

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Speaker 1: be in this Kauai position that they're in is a

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Speaker 1: surprise to a lot of people who know Kauai, a

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Speaker 1: lot of people who have been around Kauai. Um, it's

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Speaker 1: not as not as big as a surprise, believe it

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Speaker 1: or not. So some of the other teams chasing him

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Speaker 1: who always kind of feared the Lakers a little bit. Um,

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Speaker 1: I think again because the sort of respective of what

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Speaker 1: they are, UM in terms of a marquee place and

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Speaker 1: what they mean to people, Um, it's not it's not

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Speaker 1: a typical Um that's what I'm looking for. And it's

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Speaker 1: just not a typical franchise in that sense, right, Like

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Speaker 1: it's it's what the Knicks want to be. The Lakers

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Speaker 1: are actually the actualized version of it. I think we've

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Speaker 1: seen that in these last two off seasons. Point. No,

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Speaker 1: that's a great point. And the interesting thing is that

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Speaker 1: the Knicks for the most part, have their young players.

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Speaker 1: They didn't hold out of prezingis, but they have their

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Speaker 1: young players, whereas outside of Kyle Kuzma, the Lakers do not,

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Speaker 1: although Kuzma does fit with what they want to do. Um,

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Speaker 1: just kind of outside the box thought here, is there

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Speaker 1: any is there any chance that he's doing this and

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Speaker 1: making the Lakers believe they have a shot so that

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Speaker 1: he can ultimately choose the Clippers and it hurts the

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Speaker 1: Lakers because there's no one left to fill that spot.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's certainly a little bit of

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Speaker 1: a possibility. Um, but it doesn't seem to line up

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Speaker 1: kind of with you know, the kind of person that

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Speaker 1: that you know, we think Kawhi Leonard is. Um. Everything

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Speaker 1: too about what we know or about Kawhi Leonard, it

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Speaker 1: should be kind of come with the asterisk of like, well,

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Speaker 1: this is what we've either been able to decipher or

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Speaker 1: have heard because we don't know a lot about him personally.

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Speaker 1: Very few people he's you know, as I mean, everybody

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Speaker 1: kind of knows this. He's a pretty pretty guarded person. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, it doesn't make a ton of sense. I

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Speaker 1: was looking around today, I was thinking about it. You know,

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Speaker 1: the decision, when Lebron did the decision, it came on

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Speaker 1: July eight, right, like, so over over a week in

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Speaker 1: the free agency. Um. I think what happened here this

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Speaker 1: year is You've got a player who actually wanted to

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Speaker 1: take meetings, who wanted to take his time because you know,

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Speaker 1: he's making an important decision, and you had a free

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Speaker 1: agent market that didn't wait for him. Um, which is

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Speaker 1: a little bizarre, right, And like typically the market kind

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Speaker 1: of waits for for a guy like Kawai Leonard. Well,

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Speaker 1: that didn't happen this year. It was sort of, you know,

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Speaker 1: as if someone had kind of grabbed a hose and

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Speaker 1: and kinked it and and got it nice and time.

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Speaker 1: So nothing was coming out. And then at three o'clock

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Speaker 1: on Sunday you open and just all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: all the free agents are gone, you know, and billions

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Speaker 1: of dollars have been committed and all this stuff within

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Speaker 1: twenty minutes. And you know, yeah, like the markets pretty

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Speaker 1: picked over. I I think, um, this to me is

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Speaker 1: much more about, you know, a career altering decision. It

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Speaker 1: is about you know, screwing over the Lakers, who, by

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Speaker 1: the way, whether he comes or not, UM at this point,

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Speaker 1: have some really really interesting decisions to make with Um

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Speaker 1: with the with the money they'll either have because they

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Speaker 1: don't get Quiet without the money they won't have because

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Speaker 1: they do UM. Filling out a roster with you know,

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Speaker 1: eight nine minimum players is unprecedented in the NBA. And

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Speaker 1: I'm very curious to see about how Rob link is

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Speaker 1: gonna do this because to me, this is like sort

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Speaker 1: of the test for him. That the easy stuff was

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Speaker 1: getting Lebron to commit. The easy stuff was, you know,

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Speaker 1: like I said, just kind of opening up and handing

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Speaker 1: all your money and all your assets over to New

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Speaker 1: Orleans and saying, okay, we want Anthony Davis. That stuff

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Speaker 1: was easy. Like now, this is the hard part is

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Speaker 1: you know, getting Kohi Leonard, even getting Quiet Leonard. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, not really about Rob b Linka filling out

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Speaker 1: the rest of the roster. That's gonna be about Rob Lincoln.

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Speaker 1: And I think any sort of praise for him or

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Speaker 1: anything like that has to be reserved until we see

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Speaker 1: what the what the product looks like. Yeah, um, I

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Speaker 1: love Jared Ugly but great signing, good signing. Uh, can

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Speaker 1: he actually play basketball anymore? I mean you're gonna need

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Speaker 1: to see. I think, like a little like he was

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Speaker 1: a little useful right in the Philadelphia No he no,

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Speaker 1: he The only thing he's really known for is rattling

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Speaker 1: the cage of Ben Simmons and then shooting up an airball,

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Speaker 1: shooting up a ridiculous airball, like I just played some

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Speaker 1: small ball center in that series, which I think is like,

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Speaker 1: I think you are too in a positional versatility and

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Speaker 1: like that matters. Look, I mean he was good enough

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Speaker 1: to start twenty five games last year, like great, um,

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Speaker 1: he was, but like this is kind of what the

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Speaker 1: market I mean. I like Dudley in the sense that

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Speaker 1: I think, and and being around the Lakers last year, um,

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Speaker 1: and seeing kind of the amount of role players you

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Speaker 1: do because let let me let me unwind this for

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Speaker 1: a second, I think generally speaking, right, there are two

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Speaker 1: different kinds of players you can get on minimum contracts.

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Speaker 1: You get guys who can't get you can't get contracts elsewhere, right,

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Speaker 1: and are are there because they wanted another year in

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Speaker 1: the NBA and they want to keep playing and they

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Speaker 1: want to they want to have a role on the team.

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Speaker 1: And then you have guys who are there because they

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Speaker 1: they signed the one year minimum or they signed the

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Speaker 1: one year deal because they want to go get paid

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Speaker 1: again next summer. Jared Ley is not to go get

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Speaker 1: paid again next summer. Guys, so you don't have to

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Speaker 1: worry a lot about you know, pimping selfish. You don't

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Speaker 1: have to worry about a lot of that stuff. And

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Speaker 1: I think again, in this situation, when you're gonna have

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Speaker 1: so many guys in that position, having like a good

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Speaker 1: locker room guy, like that's part of it. Now, whether

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Speaker 1: that helps out on the court, you know, hard to say,

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Speaker 1: probably not a ton. But I think you know that

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Speaker 1: locker room last year was a very young locker room. Um,

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Speaker 1: it was a separated locker room in a lot of ways.

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Speaker 1: I think having kind of a cohesion guy, like a

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Speaker 1: good teammate guy, I think helps them. What that does

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Speaker 1: on the court, it's impossible to know. All right, let's

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Speaker 1: talk about the clips. Um, I don't know. The Nets

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Speaker 1: are like the seventh most popular franchise in New York, right,

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Speaker 1: the baseball teams and football teams. Um, the Knicks are

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Speaker 1: are bigger name, and of course the Rangers are bigger,

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Speaker 1: but Brooklyn has been on the rise as a borough.

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Speaker 1: The arena is spectacular, the location that that that the

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Speaker 1: area is blowing up. And I mean this is a

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Speaker 1: it's not the death knell to the Knicks, but it

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Speaker 1: sure feels like they're uncritical on in critical care um.

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Speaker 1: The Lakers would still have Anthony Davis, would still have

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Speaker 1: Lebron James. But what would it signify if they got

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Speaker 1: Kawhi Leonard. I mean, I think it would validate sort

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Speaker 1: of the last um, like the last two years of

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Speaker 1: you know, this organizational path, like since the Blake Griffin trade. Really,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it validates all of those moves. And to

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Speaker 1: be honest, let mean again reset, I don't think they

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Speaker 1: need quite a validate that stuff. I think if you

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Speaker 1: talk to basketball people around the league and you look

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Speaker 1: at what the Clippers have done, and you look at

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Speaker 1: the decisions they've made, they're operating right now is one

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Speaker 1: of the smarter franchises in the league. And that's not

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Speaker 1: always been the case with the Clippers. Uh, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean, a place where dysfunction as uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: like that should be the first number they retire. It's

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Speaker 1: just a jersey that says dysfunction. Um. You know, that's

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Speaker 1: been more defining of a characteristic that being smart and

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Speaker 1: doing the right thing. And they've been smart and done

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Speaker 1: the right thing. I mean, even in the midst of

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Speaker 1: this Kauai chase, you know, you know, kind of wedging

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Speaker 1: themselves into a four team sounding trade so they can

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Speaker 1: get a useful player Mohard put's on an expiring deal

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Speaker 1: along with another first round pick, just being ready for

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Speaker 1: that type of stuff. Like they've done a very good job. Um,

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Speaker 1: if they get him, I think it's it's it is

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a shot across the Lakers bow. Um.

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Speaker 1: I think they know that they they're not going to

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Speaker 1: catch the Lakers. Um, you know, without like to be

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Speaker 1: getting past the Lakers here is like a thirty year plan.

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Speaker 1: It can't be any quicker than that. I find these

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Speaker 1: things to be generally hard. But it's a big enough

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Speaker 1: market to support two teams. Um. You know, Clipper fans

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Speaker 1: really fell in love with this team last year. I

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Speaker 1: think they would obviously be even more excited about a

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Speaker 1: Kawhi Leonard team, and it would give them a like

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Speaker 1: a real, real chance at a championship. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: they've had probably two of those, I think kind of

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Speaker 1: if we're being honest, and the lob c Ofdy are

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Speaker 1: like two real good cracks at it and weird stuff

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Speaker 1: happened both times. Um, this would probably give them their

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Speaker 1: best chance. Um with a really good young roster, tons

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Speaker 1: of flexibility. Um, you know, is it? Are they going

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Speaker 1: to overtake the Lakers? I don't think so now with

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Speaker 1: Lebron and Anthony Davis, but I think they're certainly a

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Speaker 1: viable alternative in the in the marketplace. And you know,

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Speaker 1: it would be again a very exciting brand of basketball,

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Speaker 1: a really like what kind of hard nosed, tough nose

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Speaker 1: team that that the Clipper fans really fell in love

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Speaker 1: with last year last thing? What if he doesn't come

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Speaker 1: back like this would be the second consecutive All Pro

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Speaker 1: level player, All Star level player, And obviously Kauai isn't

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Speaker 1: even higher level player than Paul George, the second guy

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Speaker 1: who forced his way out of his first home and

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Speaker 1: said I want to come to l A and then

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Speaker 1: it's like, nah, I'm good. What if he decides to

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Speaker 1: not come to l A? What does it say about

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles professional bask Um? I think to me it

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Speaker 1: says more about uh, like the power. I think it'll

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Speaker 1: be really and really I think it'll be good for

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Speaker 1: the league. Um. And here's why I think, um, when

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Speaker 1: guys are in this situation where they want to be

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Speaker 1: moved late in contracts and stuff like that. But you know,

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Speaker 1: this is what worked for Rich Paul with Anthony Davis, right,

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Speaker 1: is like you suppressed the market where only big market

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Speaker 1: teams are in it because you know you're gonna lose

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Speaker 1: a guy. You just know it, and so there's no

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Speaker 1: point in going for it. And that consolidates talent and

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Speaker 1: a handful of places. Um. To me, like if Kauai

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Speaker 1: goes back, it's just another sort of like another a

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Speaker 1: victory for like team go for it and take the risks, right,

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Speaker 1: like like the way of Cloma City did, the way

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Speaker 1: um where they leverage really good assets for what might

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Speaker 1: only be a year, the way that Toronto did by

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Speaker 1: you know, trading one of the most popular players, um,

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Speaker 1: you know in the in the country's basketball history honestly, right,

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Speaker 1: Like I mean Demarta rosen Um. So few players have

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Speaker 1: seemed to want to be a part of the Toronto Raptors.

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Speaker 1: Um Demarta Rosen did, and then they took a huge

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Speaker 1: risk by moving him. Um, you know, they piste off

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Speaker 1: Kyle Lowry. Um. There are fans that were very upset

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Speaker 1: for a guy that supposedly didn't want to be there. Well, like,

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Speaker 1: you can create a culture and you can recruit that

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Speaker 1: way and then converse that. I think it's a hint

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Speaker 1: for like the big market teams who think they can

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Speaker 1: just sit and wait, you know, and and like that

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Speaker 1: you don't have to make the movie. You don't have

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Speaker 1: to give up assets to get guys. Um. No, Like,

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Speaker 1: when you have the opportunity, you go and do it.

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Speaker 1: And and credit to the Lakers for doing that with

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Speaker 1: Anton Davis, um for not being arrogant, for not just

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Speaker 1: sitting and waiting and letting another team like maybe feel

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Speaker 1: like Denver come in and make an offer and convinced

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Speaker 1: they to stand Denver next year. Um. I think that's

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Speaker 1: sort of the exciting part about it for the league

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Speaker 1: is that it opens up more sort of a viable

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Speaker 1: pathways for teams when it comes to acquiring a superstar.

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Speaker 1: And I think as far as like coming Home, it's

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Speaker 1: not for everybody Um, you know, Kauaia does feel like

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Speaker 1: it's important to him, Doug. But uh, you know, for

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Speaker 1: Paul George, maybe it wasn't that. I mean, he seems

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Speaker 1: like someone who enjoys like he has a fishing pond

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Speaker 1: at his house and see like he likes that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and and and you know, um, home doesn't always home

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Speaker 1: doesn't always mean the same thing at the same time

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Speaker 1: in life. Yeah, it's yeah, it's a it's a fact.

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Speaker 1: As a guy who's lived outside of Southern California a

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Speaker 1: good portion of my professional life, I can tell you that.

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Speaker 1: And I've twice moved back here. It's different both times.

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Speaker 1: And there are things that I love, but there are

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Speaker 1: things that that I I don't love about it. Obviously

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Speaker 1: I'm not in their tax brackets. So it's that you

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Speaker 1: can you can love a whole lot more when you're

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Speaker 1: when you're making a year. Dan, I appreciate you join us.

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Speaker 1: I'm like everybody else can't wait to see what happens.

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Speaker 1: Is the fascinating time in the NBA, especially here in

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles. Thanks for joining us. Thanks, I got one

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Speaker 1: thing real quick. I think this is like the best

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Speaker 1: one of the best free agencies that I can remember,

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Speaker 1: because it does feel like everybody involved is like made

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Speaker 1: such compelling pitches and it's pretty open, like who the

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Speaker 1: three final star? It so rarely do we get to

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Speaker 1: find out a ton about a guy as secret of

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Speaker 1: his Kauai and I think, you know, whenever he makes

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Speaker 1: a decision, we'll be able to say, oh, well, we

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Speaker 1: know this about him. And that to me is like,

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Speaker 1: I think what I'm most excited about, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm, I'm, I'm with you, I'm with you, right

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Speaker 1: Like the Clippers thing does feel like you know, you're you're, You're.

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Speaker 1: That's a little engine that could and it's about the

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Speaker 1: culture and they build everything around him. The Raptors thing

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Speaker 1: would be like, hey, you know what, I never I

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Speaker 1: didn't think I'd love it, but I did. And I'd

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Speaker 1: rather be king of one country, uh than than one

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Speaker 1: of the stars in my hometown. And the Lakers thing,

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Speaker 1: you know, it is completely different, Like I don't even

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Speaker 1: know how it all work because some of them, you know,

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Speaker 1: they all kind of need the basketball at some point.

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Speaker 1: But it would be just an impressive, impressive embarrassment of

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Speaker 1: riches and I don't think anyone would argue with the

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Speaker 1: Lakers being back, uh if they got it done. But

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Speaker 1: you're right there, three very different and very compelling decisions. Yep, Dan,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much. Thanks so all right, let's let's turn

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Speaker 1: you to our long form discussion of the week. Pat Garrity,

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Speaker 1: when I first met him was I was on my

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Speaker 1: recruiting visit Notre Dame and everyone said, like, this is

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Speaker 1: gonna be a dude, six ft ten, tremendous shooter, monument Colorado,

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Speaker 1: brilliant guy. Uh, my first semester Notre Dame, he got one.

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Speaker 1: B Fran McCaffrey recruiters both called him in and said

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Speaker 1: Frank and said, Pat, we didn't bring you in here

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Speaker 1: to get pace. And I don't believe he got another

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Speaker 1: one while he said Notre Dame as a bio cam engineer. Now,

425
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:55,199
Speaker 1: Fran McCaffrey was actually joking, trying to bust his balls

426
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,480
Speaker 1: and motivate him. But nonetheless he did in fact want

427
00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:02,240
Speaker 1: to motivate him, and it didn't back work. You go

428
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,119
Speaker 1: from there to being a first round draft pick in

429
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:07,480
Speaker 1: the NBA, to playing in the league for a decade,

430
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:11,439
Speaker 1: to being head of the NBA p A to getting

431
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:15,560
Speaker 1: his NBA to working in finance with Bridgewater and then

432
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 1: ultimately returning to the NBA as an assistant GM with

433
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,440
Speaker 1: the Detroit Pistons. What an amazing career he has had.

434
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,680
Speaker 1: Here's my discussion with Pat Garrity of the Detroit Pistons.

435
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:32,520
Speaker 1: Let's start not at the very beginning, because although your

436
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,360
Speaker 1: childhood is probably really interesting to you, I'm not sure

437
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:39,440
Speaker 1: how interesting it is to everybody else. I'm kidding. So, look,

438
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:41,479
Speaker 1: you grew up. Did you grow up in Money in

439
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,120
Speaker 1: Colorado the entire time? Or where you was other places

440
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,760
Speaker 1: before you got there? No, My my dad is in

441
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:48,520
Speaker 1: the Air Force, so we were all over the place.

442
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 1: We were in New York, California, Panama, uh, Texas. So.

443
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,360
Speaker 1: But but from high school on it with the exception

444
00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:59,280
Speaker 1: of one year when I was in South Carolina. It

445
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 1: was it was Minum in Colorado, just outside of Colorado Springs. Wait,

446
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 1: so you you moved there in high school? Well, I

447
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:12,120
Speaker 1: was there through junior high and then started from from

448
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 1: fifth grade and then we moved away one year, lived

449
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:19,119
Speaker 1: in Sumter, South Carolina. Um, but that sounds hot, and

450
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 1: that sounds that sounds really hot. Well, the tribute question here,

451
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,520
Speaker 1: it's the adjacent town to Dells Bell which is where

452
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 1: John Moranz bro So yeah, right, right, a small town

453
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:33,359
Speaker 1: in in South Carolina. But then but then yeah, the

454
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 1: Colorado throughout throughout high school. Okay, so, um, like, were

455
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 1: you always good? When did you When did you first

456
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,600
Speaker 1: figure out I'm going to be this is something I'm

457
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 1: going to do. I felt my career was a little

458
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,879
Speaker 1: bit like Forrest Gump because it was like I always

459
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 1: liked playing basketball, and I didn't play any any really

460
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,199
Speaker 1: au up until the time I was in junior, and

461
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 1: it was just a matter of you know, show up.

462
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 1: It was pretty good. Get put on the varsity, was

463
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 1: pretty good on that like the next step, and so

464
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,360
Speaker 1: there was never like any kind of grand plan. There

465
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,920
Speaker 1: was never any point where it's like, okay, let's really

466
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 1: focus on getting with the skills trainer or you know,

467
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,160
Speaker 1: trend coach or all the things that kids do now

468
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 1: when they when they show a little bit of talent.

469
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 1: I just I just played a lot. And it wasn't

470
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:27,679
Speaker 1: really until my junior year of high school that I

471
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 1: started getting interest and offers from you know, mid level

472
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 1: the one type schools, and at that point, I just

473
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:35,639
Speaker 1: I just wanted to go to college for free. And

474
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,640
Speaker 1: play basketball. I Uh, I wasn't you know, I wasn't

475
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 1: thinking professional basketball at all. I thought it was going

476
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:43,440
Speaker 1: to be if I go to college and track the

477
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:47,880
Speaker 1: rotation and play, that'd be That'd be awesome. Um. But

478
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 1: you were always you're always a straight a student, like

479
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,440
Speaker 1: was that was your your and your dad being military?

480
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 1: Was he like hardcore? Like? How did how did how

481
00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 1: did you have that sort that level of discipline personally?

482
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,639
Speaker 1: You know, it wasn't so they were both they were

483
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 1: both my parents are both educated. Both both had beyond

484
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 1: bachelor's degrees. My dad as a doctorate education, my mom

485
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 1: as a master's and education. She as a teacher. So

486
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 1: you know, it was that was school is always important.

487
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 1: But it was never a thing where they were bringing

488
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 1: a hammer down. They were they were pushing, Okay, you

489
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 1: got to do this so you get into the best schools.

490
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,119
Speaker 1: It was just you know, you expect you were expected

491
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 1: to do your best, and it was always something that

492
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 1: I took pride. And I mean I've I've always been

493
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 1: interested in learning and reading and how to curious mind.

494
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,120
Speaker 1: So for me, it was just a matter of that

495
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 1: combined with you know, wanting to be the best at it.

496
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:49,640
Speaker 1: When did when did notre Dame first start recruiting you? Well,

497
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:54,120
Speaker 1: so they first started recruiting me in the spring of

498
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,640
Speaker 1: my junior year, and I remember how it went back.

499
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 1: It's funny that this is the way kind of it

500
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,680
Speaker 1: worked back then, which was, you know, but I got

501
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 1: I got a I think I got a letter from

502
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 1: Fran mccaffley or call who is who was one of

503
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:10,400
Speaker 1: those assistants at the time, and he said, I saw

504
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 1: you play. Can you put together some tapes that you

505
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 1: can send a spe so I can show a coach McLoud.

506
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 1: So I can remember I like rigged two VCRs together

507
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 1: and somehow came up with like my highlight taper. But

508
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 1: you had to make your own highlight tape to kind

509
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 1: of sell yourself to McLeod. Yeah, well, because he hadn't

510
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 1: seen me yet. It was just Fran who'd seen me somewhere.

511
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,120
Speaker 1: And I don't know why they didn't just say, hey,

512
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,239
Speaker 1: send us the tapes and we'll make them. But for

513
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 1: some reason it seemed like it made sense that I

514
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 1: was like rigging two VCRs together and figuring out how

515
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 1: to make tapes. So made my own tape and sent

516
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 1: it there, and that kind of started where then then

517
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 1: entering that summer, um before my senior year, what's a

518
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 1: b C D. And then played on a team, a

519
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 1: Colorado team. It was a pretty good team. Chance he

520
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 1: was on that team, UM, a couple other D one guys.

521
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,439
Speaker 1: And then that's when I that's what coach saw me,

522
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:08,119
Speaker 1: and um, you know, started recruiting me a little bit harder.

523
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 1: Do you remember who was on your team at abc D? Yeah?

524
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 1: I do. Um, Circus King remember that circus Yeah, Oakland, California, Oakley, California.

525
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 1: Really tough, fast point guard. I think he went to

526
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 1: cow She could could not shoot. He was like, he

527
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 1: was like, this is like a childhood rival, min because

528
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 1: I was supposed to be in your class. I stayed

529
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 1: back in eighth grade. So I probably played against Circus

530
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 1: King every year once or twice a year. And I

531
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 1: think that was back in the old days of the

532
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:43,160
Speaker 1: old Oakland Soldiers when they actually had players from Oakland. Um.

533
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,640
Speaker 1: But yeah, okay, so Circus King, go ahead. The circus

534
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:48,919
Speaker 1: team was on their oh mc givons who ended up

535
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,440
Speaker 1: going to u C l A. I believe right, Yeah,

536
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 1: Seattle from Seattle. Yeah, and then and then the Colorado

537
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 1: that's all the Colorado guys that were on there. So Shauncey,

538
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,640
Speaker 1: Ted Chritz who ended up playing the Colorado than transferred

539
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 1: to to Lane Um who else was Those are the

540
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,120
Speaker 1: names that kind of stick out. But then the big

541
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 1: names in the camp, and he was a year younger,

542
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,400
Speaker 1: but that was the year of like Stefan Marberry, Felippe Lopez,

543
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 1: Genton Hamilton, those those were the big names in that camp.

544
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 1: Stohowski was like put on some team of Russian I remember.

545
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:25,879
Speaker 1: I remember it was like all Russian teams and I

546
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 1: was watching the game and I'm like those guys like

547
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:33,359
Speaker 1: really good, Uh this is this is uh well, I

548
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 1: can tell this story on the pod. So the story

549
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 1: I remember. So he was on this team of Europeans

550
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 1: and it was him and there's a cat. I gotta

551
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 1: get him on this pod. There's him and some cat

552
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 1: from like Indiana was on it, maybe one other dude,

553
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: and they were super fun to watch, right everybody else

554
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 1: was doing you know, like high ball screen is so

555
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 1: you know, one on one bullshit and like they're moving

556
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 1: the ball and I mean, he looks amazing on this

557
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 1: team where they're playing real basketball. But I remember at

558
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 1: some point, like we were sitting behind their bench and

559
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 1: they had like a translator maybe even two translators in

560
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: the coach and a guy. The guy like the kid

561
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think it was from like Indiana, um,

562
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 1: and they're arguing on the bench and and the kid

563
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: from Indiana's like, yo, tell him to pass me the

564
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 1: fucking ball, and like the translators the translor said, and

565
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 1: like the Russian kid was like you suck my dick

566
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: right Like it was like wait, all of a sudden,

567
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 1: he started speaking English because he knew how a curse

568
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 1: it wasn't It was an amazing thing. That was Ypsilanti Michigan.

569
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 1: So what I remember about that camp, and my dad

570
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 1: was our coach. We played in the finals against Team

571
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 1: Michigan and lost. Um. But I remember about that camp

572
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 1: was it was sick. It was really hot. It was

573
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: in their old you know, the their their arena was

574
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 1: like one of those whatever they're called, like a little

575
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 1: half dome type like it was kind of ghetto compared

576
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 1: to No one would play in one of those buildings now.

577
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 1: And they had fans everywhere, and by by fans, I

578
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 1: mean the actual like metal fans to try and cool

579
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 1: you off, and like here we were a bunch of

580
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: kids from southern California. We had a squad and j R. Henderson,

581
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 1: who was my AU teammate, was my roommate and he

582
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 1: would come back to the room and went down towels

583
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 1: and lay in bed with a wet towel on each

584
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: leg and on his forehead to cool off. Like I remember,

585
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 1: was that kind of hot and like all of us

586
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 1: are like, whatever we do, we're not going somewhere where

587
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 1: it's humid. Is this That's how I remember about that camp.

588
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 1: I think that that was the last year we can

589
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 1: so that was that was like a bridge year. I

590
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 1: think Converse was was was the company that was underwriting it,

591
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 1: and I think then after that it went to t Neck,

592
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 1: New Jersey and was there for a long time as

593
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 1: it was the Adidas camp. Yes, the year before that,

594
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 1: it was at uc Irvine and it was you know

595
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,239
Speaker 1: right there, and but it was also Converse and that

596
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 1: was Yepslan, Michigan, and then it was at Fairleigh Dickinson

597
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 1: after that. Oh god, okay, yeah, no, it was I

598
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 1: mean it was the first there there was some unbelievable play.

599
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 1: It was the first time I've seen Antline Walkers play

600
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 1: like Antlon Walker was was at that point, I'm like,

601
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: this is one of the best players I've ever seen. Um, yeah,

602
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 1: a lot of good players. That's what was different about

603
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 1: so Antoine Walker would hang out around our area because

604
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 1: we had Gilanni Gardner who was like the best, and

605
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 1: Ricky Price and they would shoot dice and talk trash

606
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 1: and yeah, we had it was. It was pretty That

607
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 1: was the one thing that was different then was we

608
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 1: used to always go to the Vegas tournaments. We didn't

609
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 1: play in the AU national tournaments because the Vegas tournaments

610
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 1: was like as far as we would go because everybody

611
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 1: would come to us, but you didn't always see people play.

612
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 1: So like I remember the year before I was I

613
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 1: was going to be a sophomore and I just went

614
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 1: to the A B C. D camp and I saw

615
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: Antonio mcdice. Right. That was like the first time, but

616
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 1: it was it was one of those times when you

617
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 1: may have heard of somebody, or maybe you didn't, but

618
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 1: all of a sudden you got to see other players

619
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: around the country and it was it was pretty alarming

620
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 1: how good some of these dudes were. Whereas now I

621
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 1: do feel like they all kind of see each other

622
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 1: and play against each other more. No, for sure. Now,

623
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 1: I mean with with how organized the circuits are now

624
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 1: and with how high level, like the U I B

625
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 1: L circuit theres, like they all know each other, everyone's

626
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 1: seeing each other's film, you know. So it's you're right.

627
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 1: I mean you went to you know, a tournament in

628
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 1: Vegas or like some of the pump or other stuff

629
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 1: in southern California, which was a big thing that you know,

630
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 1: Colorado teams would go to you maybe see you know,

631
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 1: one or two high level the one guys on each team,

632
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 1: but it was much more spread out you would and

633
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 1: you've never seen any East Coast players. Okay, so let's so,

634
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 1: so you you show up at Notre Dame. You do, Okay,

635
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: why did you pick Notre Dame? Well, so, my the

636
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 1: the two schools I was changing between we're Stanford and

637
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 1: Notre Dame. And that's when my visit to Stanford I

638
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 1: was like I wanted to cancel my visit to Notre Dame.

639
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 1: I told my dad like, look, this place is awesome.

640
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: It's like beautiful weather. Um And it wasn't like my

641
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 1: dad or my family were big Notre Dame things, but

642
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 1: you know, you said, just just finish it out. You

643
00:32:58,480 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 1: told him you were going to go there, take a

644
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 1: bit it And I just remember going there and it

645
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 1: was like the opposite of the standard visits, like the

646
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 1: Stanford visit. Like teammates were great, you know, went to

647
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: parties like Weather it was terrific. We go to South End.

648
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 1: It was like junior. It was like parents weekend. No

649
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 1: one was doing anything. I think Ryan Hoover at the time,

650
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 1: I kid him about this, like like gave me the

651
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 1: forty bucks that he had. He said, he like, go

652
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 1: take me to dinner. And he's like, hey, you know,

653
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 1: go go hey out was this I gotta go to

654
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 1: do with my parents? And it was like from from

655
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: an entertainment standpoint, it was the worst. But I just

656
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 1: remember feeling when I talked to, you know, some of

657
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 1: the people you know around campus in the coaching staff,

658
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 1: and it just felt there's just a feeling of like

659
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 1: this is kind of more where I belong and um

660
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 1: and the and the opportunity to play too. I mean,

661
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 1: at that time, I think Stanford's roster was was pretty

662
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 1: top heavy. Without a classmate that had some guys coming in.

663
00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: I think Mark Madson was coming back from the mission,

664
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 1: and I was like, Putty bloaded the big guys here.

665
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 1: So all right, you know, even though the place is great,

666
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 1: I know I can probably play right away at Notre Dame.

667
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 1: And so that's what ultimately swung it for me. So

668
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 1: you show up at at Notre Dame and Hoover's there,

669
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 1: Lamar Justice one of the all time great nicknames, right,

670
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 1: blue because he's so he's so black, he's blue. Like

671
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 1: that's a that's a great that's a great name. I

672
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 1: don't know, like I still think guys would have the

673
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 1: nickname blue. I just don't know if it would be

674
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 1: as cool to have the nickname blue as it was, right, Yeah, yeah,

675
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 1: um uh. Keith Krowski, who I'll never forget. This is

676
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,800
Speaker 1: my This is my favorite. I actually told this story

677
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,800
Speaker 1: to one of my children who was wiping her nose

678
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:50,359
Speaker 1: on her shirt. So Keithkrowski was. He was a couple

679
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 1: of years older than you. Right, he's a senior my

680
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:56,919
Speaker 1: freshman year and Christian Brothers Christian Brothers Academy. I'm gonna

681
00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:00,040
Speaker 1: say it in New Jersey, that's right. And he and

682
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 1: he was like combo guard Nutty. But the kind of

683
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 1: nutty white kid that you're like, all right, that kid

684
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,879
Speaker 1: can make it because you've gotta be a little off

685
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,359
Speaker 1: to be like a white scoring guard, right, you just

686
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:14,400
Speaker 1: have to. I don't know, I don't know how to

687
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 1: explain it um otherwise. But like he would go in

688
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 1: I remember he would go in for like a lamp

689
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 1: in a game and go around his back and lay

690
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 1: it in just because right. Oh yeah, no memory. My

691
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 1: memory of my first memory of him was so we

692
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,279
Speaker 1: get on campus and like the first day, we drive

693
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:35,359
Speaker 1: from Colorado to to Notre Dame, and my dad like,

694
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 1: we have all my stuff in the back. We go

695
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 1: up to my room. It's this like tiny room, and

696
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 1: the first thing he says is like, I've lived in

697
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 1: worse than this, you know, and he's been in he's

698
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:47,959
Speaker 1: been deployed. He was in Saudi Arabia during the first

699
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 1: full four, so that's what he see. Moves all my

700
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 1: stuff in. He takes me over the basketball office and

701
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 1: he says, okay, check in with those guys, and he's like,

702
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 1: get some gear. I got some gear. And then he's like, okay,

703
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:01,799
Speaker 1: I think I think you're set to go. He got

704
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:03,359
Speaker 1: in the car and that just drove back, like did

705
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 1: you even stay a day? And so Karroski was there,

706
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 1: and so karross He's like, here, I'll take you. And

707
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 1: I think there was like you know, kids are coming back,

708
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 1: there's all of these kind of stuff going on, and

709
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:14,399
Speaker 1: he's like, let's go, let's go play one on one.

710
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 1: And so we played one on one for like three

711
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: hours and then and then he's like, okay, let's go

712
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 1: s this pechnic that's going on. And he's got like

713
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,360
Speaker 1: no shirt, like a gold necklace. He's driving like a

714
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 1: Nissan three hundred Z and like that was that was him.

715
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 1: My memory was, um, he he was a baller, like

716
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 1: he would play one on one for hours, and but

717
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 1: he also he he wasn't he was the he wasn't

718
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 1: the he was kind of hygienically challenged, right, Like the

719
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 1: story I remember was, and maybe this was your freshman year.

720
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 1: He broke his foot and every and when you were

721
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:52,879
Speaker 1: in the dorms and Notre Dame, you built a loft, right,

722
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,839
Speaker 1: so you had more space on your floor, You're so

723
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 1: he was up in his loft and your the bathrooms

724
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 1: down the hall, and he had a broken foot out

725
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 1: so he had to go down the stairs and walk

726
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 1: down the hall to take a leak. And he was

727
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 1: telling the guys and like, dude, why don't you just

728
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 1: take a Gatoray bottle peeing the Gatorway bottle throw it

729
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:10,360
Speaker 1: down in the morning instead of and you have to

730
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 1: go in the middle of the night, like you got

731
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 1: a broken foot getting up, you know, running the risk

732
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 1: of falling down, going down your your little your ladder

733
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 1: and then walking down the hall. And he's like, that's

734
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: a great idea. So then they come to get him

735
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:23,800
Speaker 1: for a workout because he had to attend all the

736
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 1: workouts and they look and there's just bottles upon bottles

737
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:33,400
Speaker 1: of of piss right at along his window. That's so

738
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 1: so so. But here's the story I remember. So McLeod,

739
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 1: God rest his soul. John McLeod. He had this weird

740
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 1: thing about I don't know, a weird thing. I mean,

741
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,319
Speaker 1: you know there's things he we always tucked in our chairs, right,

742
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 1: and but you always had to be wearing like your

743
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 1: sweats to team meal or two or two mass or

744
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 1: to a meeting. And I'll never forget. We were on

745
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 1: the road and I can't remember exactly where it was.

746
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 1: It was a little bit later in the year. Um,

747
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 1: and like I'll say it was Georgetown and we go

748
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 1: to have like meeting film and dinner and you were

749
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 1: his roommate, where he was your roommate, and you put

750
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 1: on your Notre Dame blue Nikes sweatsuits, zipped it up,

751
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 1: came running down because you guys are running late, and

752
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:25,799
Speaker 1: you sit down, you're sitting next to me, and I

753
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 1: look on your sleeves and there's just snot like dried

754
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 1: snot all up on your sleeves, and you realize that

755
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 1: you had Keith jacket on. Like that's uh yeah, I

756
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: know he was thinking definitely, like a lot of bother

757
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 1: the guy, Um, what's he doing, what's he doing for healthy?

758
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:51,440
Speaker 1: What's he doing now? I think he's high school basketball coach? Um.

759
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:53,399
Speaker 1: I think he was in he was outside of South

760
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 1: Bend for a while, coach, and I lost track him

761
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,319
Speaker 1: a little bit, but I'm I would be shocked if

762
00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 1: he's just not coaching right now. I mean that basketball

763
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 1: was the whole life, and it was a shange just

764
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: because he was he was never healthy, and if you

765
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:05,319
Speaker 1: were healthy, he had a chance to be a really

766
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 1: good college player, I think, And and just one of

767
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: those guys that weird injuries why after the other, not

768
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 1: related to each other, but never had a career that

769
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:16,439
Speaker 1: could have had. Yeah, I mean he was really really

770
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:18,879
Speaker 1: talented guy, and I think the way basketball is going,

771
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:20,719
Speaker 1: it may actually kind of come around to him, right

772
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 1: because he did. He was kind of a positionless guy.

773
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,879
Speaker 1: He could score, he would he would take what what

774
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 1: then we're questionable shots. Now guys take a higher volume

775
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 1: of it, and he did, in fact love love the gym.

776
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 1: How did you How did you handle the losing? Well?

777
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 1: So you know, it's it was right away as a freshman,

778
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 1: you know, you're you're you're so worried about your own stuff,

779
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 1: like am I Am I doing well enough to play like?

780
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:53,399
Speaker 1: And so the way I would describe it as just

781
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,720
Speaker 1: just trying to establish myself as a college basketball player.

782
00:39:56,719 --> 00:40:00,759
Speaker 1: The first year, you're a little bit selfish, becau as

783
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 1: how you're doing kind of takes preston over the team.

784
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 1: But it really wasn't until you know, so after you know,

785
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 1: I got established the starting right away as a freshman,

786
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 1: then the sophomore year was just really really painful because

787
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 1: that was our first year in the Big East. That

788
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 1: was your freshman year and we just didn't have the type.

789
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:23,880
Speaker 1: I mean, we were a mid major D one team

790
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 1: with with the with the guys that I think that

791
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 1: we had, and we were just going up against the

792
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:31,279
Speaker 1: Big East at the time, which was which was one

793
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 1: of the best toperences in the country and just loaded

794
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 1: with talent, and so it was tough. I mean, it

795
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 1: was just it was hard to see if what the

796
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 1: path was to ever get better. And um, you know,

797
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 1: at the same time, there's just always a motivation to

798
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 1: work on your own game and you gotta take care

799
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,719
Speaker 1: of yourself and get better. But that was that was

800
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 1: a tough time. That that's first year in the Big East. Yeah. Um.

801
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 1: And then of course, I mean I didn't help it

802
00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 1: when I got in trouble had you know, doesn't doesn't

803
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 1: doesn't help help Jimmy Dillon, get it right. I have

804
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:04,880
Speaker 1: a I have a story for you. I don't I

805
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 1: don't know if you remember. Um, I'm gonna say, was

806
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 1: it Matt van Kowski said, who it was? We had

807
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:16,319
Speaker 1: a walk up? Okay, here's what I remember this This

808
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 1: brilliant guy, right so Vankowski was a walk on and

809
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:23,799
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say he's like, I don't know, it felt

810
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:27,840
Speaker 1: like he was like six six um. But but you know,

811
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 1: like I just remember he was just a big white

812
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 1: guy like Harry Legs, you know, solidly built like I

813
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:37,240
Speaker 1: just so I remember. And it's one of the cooler

814
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 1: parts about Notre Dame and then one of the weirder

815
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 1: stories I can share. So we had this thing like

816
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 1: if you said I have to study, or if you

817
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 1: said I gotta I got a tutor, he said I

818
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 1: have a class. If you said I have anything scholastically,

819
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 1: it was they didn't never question you, like just go

820
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 1: like go. You know, so van Kowski didn't come to practice.

821
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say for like two weeks. Maybe I'm inflating it,

822
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 1: you know, as i've as it's it's twenty years removed now,

823
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 1: but he didn't goin to practice like two weeks. And

824
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:14,720
Speaker 1: we used to get together and before now they built

825
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 1: the practice facility, we used to work out in the

826
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 1: pit um the legit. It was a kind of auxilary

827
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 1: gym inside the then Joyce Athletic Communicity of the jack

828
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:29,240
Speaker 1: where we played and I remember like all of a sudden,

829
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 1: he's getting up shots, you know, and we're gonna play.

830
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 1: And then like he was in lamb lines and I

831
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:36,919
Speaker 1: was like, when'd you get here. He's like, ah, don't

832
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 1: He's like, do you think they missed me? And I

833
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 1: honestly believe that no one knew he was gone, Like

834
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 1: the coaches didn't know he even missed two weeks and

835
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:47,880
Speaker 1: like you know, he's a walk on or whatever. But

836
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 1: to not have been and I was just like that

837
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 1: was a wow. I cannot believe that the guy had

838
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 1: missed that Mets practice and no one ever knew. Yeah, no,

839
00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:02,399
Speaker 1: I mean it definitely like yeah, I mean back then

840
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 1: in even the place like not to day, like the

841
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:09,400
Speaker 1: school came first, Um, you know you weren't that the

842
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 1: travel was was arranged that stat you weren't missing any

843
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 1: class kind of at the expense of you know, grass

844
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. Um. Yeah, a lot of different

845
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 1: thum than a lot of place. UM. Tell me about

846
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 1: draft day. Yeah, so that was that was. Um. He

847
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 1: was in the drafts in Vancouver at that time. So

848
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 1: I was up there with my family, uh, my girlfriend.

849
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 1: At the time. I didn't really have a good idea

850
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 1: of where I was going. I thought, Um, I had

851
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 1: really good workouts in Milwaukee, pretty a pretty good workout.

852
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 1: Um in Atlanta. They were dropped in kind of Milwaukee

853
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:55,840
Speaker 1: was drafted in nineteenth I think Atlanta was twenties or

854
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 1: something like that. So I had a pretty good idea

855
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:00,319
Speaker 1: that I was going in that range. So UM end

856
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:02,880
Speaker 1: up getting picked at the nineteenth figure time. It was

857
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:05,000
Speaker 1: in Milwaukee. So you know, got up on stage, put

858
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 1: the hat on, and what happened after that, You you

859
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 1: shake the commissioner's hand and then they take you back

860
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 1: in the hallway to do just a bunch of different,

861
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:15,799
Speaker 1: you know, series of interviews. And so I remember I

862
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 1: did my first one. I'm walking to the next, and

863
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,240
Speaker 1: this guy is kind of standing there with a notepad

864
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 1: and he grabs me and the nooses himself as a

865
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:24,799
Speaker 1: beat writer for the Sons, and and he said, hey,

866
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 1: have you have you heard about the trade. I'm like, no,

867
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,360
Speaker 1: I haven't heard about it. He's like, yeah, I think that.

868
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:34,400
Speaker 1: I think that you're in a package going to to Phoenix.

869
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:38,400
Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, that's and at the time I hadn't

870
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 1: worked out for Phoenix. I didn't talk to any of

871
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 1: their people. Um, but but that was the deal where

872
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 1: Dirt now Whiskey was picked ninth. I was nineteen. We

873
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:51,840
Speaker 1: were both traded to Dallas UM as part of a

874
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:56,439
Speaker 1: three team trade for Robert Trailer. Oh. I think I'm

875
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 1: not sure where Trailer was picked, but he was kind

876
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 1: of somewhere in between them. And then I I was

877
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 1: packaged with like three young guys to Phoenix for and

878
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 1: and you know, I think multiple picks for Steve Nash,

879
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 1: who at that time was a backup, but he was

880
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:14,279
Speaker 1: coming up on free agency that had kid at the time,

881
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:15,839
Speaker 1: they weren't going to be able to pay him, and

882
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 1: so ended up making that trade. That's that's how I

883
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 1: ended up in Phoenix, UM. And so, you know, drabbing

884
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 1: good on a plane the next morning and Danny Age

885
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:29,320
Speaker 1: wants to like work me out. You hadn't seen me before,

886
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 1: and I still and I I saw last year, you know,

887
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:35,839
Speaker 1: Brian Colangelo and who was the gym at the time

888
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 1: in Danny Age still jokes about this. He's like, that

889
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 1: was one of the worst workouts that I've ever been

890
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 1: a part of. It. This is you after dropt He's like,

891
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:45,320
Speaker 1: I thought you were going to get us soft fired

892
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:49,239
Speaker 1: and so um, you know a little bit of a

893
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 1: rust start there. It was the lockout year. So you know,

894
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:55,920
Speaker 1: immediately after the draft. A week later, the lockout happened,

895
00:45:56,000 --> 00:46:00,440
Speaker 1: and that was the one where we missed early two

896
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:02,920
Speaker 1: games and didn't start playing until January. So it was

897
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,280
Speaker 1: really a weird season to be a rookie, but um,

898
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 1: you know, pretty good memories ended up kind of breaking

899
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:09,719
Speaker 1: atother rotation towards the end of the season, played in

900
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 1: the playoffs and and got traded to Orlando after that. Okay,

901
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 1: so what was what was it like to be like? Again?

902
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:21,799
Speaker 1: This is you didn't go as you pointed out, you

903
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 1: didn't grow up thinking knowing you're going to play in

904
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:26,719
Speaker 1: the NBA. Obviously you had a great college career, your

905
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 1: Big East Player of the Year, um, and then it

906
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 1: became a parent you're gonna play in the NBA. What

907
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 1: was do you remember that first? Like your first game,

908
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 1: the first time you see your Phoenix Suns jersey with

909
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:39,760
Speaker 1: Garrity on the back. Was your first memory of playing

910
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 1: in the NBA? Yes, so the first memory, which was, Um,

911
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 1: I mean I can't really remember camp because I think

912
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:49,600
Speaker 1: camp was like two or three days long, and it was,

913
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:53,680
Speaker 1: you know, my first memory. Honestly, I remember the preseason games,

914
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:55,799
Speaker 1: but I remember playing in the l A tall team

915
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:57,839
Speaker 1: against the Clippers the first game, and I have had

916
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 1: a couple. We played two preseason games can Dallas and

917
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 1: I played pretty well. They played us a lot. I think,

918
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 1: I you know, one game had four team coins or

919
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 1: something like that, and I'm like, okay, I can, I can.

920
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 1: And then I just remember my when when the games

921
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 1: were for real, it was like, how am I ever

922
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 1: going to score in this game? So so it didn't

923
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:16,279
Speaker 1: score all of the Clippers game, but you know, I

924
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 1: just remember the just like the size and the strength

925
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:22,759
Speaker 1: of these guys was just was just something unlike I

926
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 1: had ever seen before. Um, And you know, it took

927
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 1: it took a long time to get adjusted to what

928
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 1: my game really was because in college I was coming

929
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 1: off screens and shooting and posting up and that that

930
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 1: game it wasn't going to work in the NBA. So

931
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 1: I really had to figure out how I was gonna play.

932
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:44,319
Speaker 1: And luckily the first two coaches I had, both both

933
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 1: Danny and Doc Rivers, I think identified where I could be,

934
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:51,239
Speaker 1: you know, most effective and useful, which was kind of

935
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:53,319
Speaker 1: as a as a stretch guy, and so that kind

936
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:56,080
Speaker 1: of changed my game. Just trying to play to that

937
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 1: and get as good at those skills as I could. Yeah,

938
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 1: what was using kids at that time? Jason Kidd was

939
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 1: just becoming a guy who could make a shot. But

940
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 1: I mean peak of his athletic powers years old. What

941
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:12,279
Speaker 1: was j Kid like? So Kidd was um, I mean

942
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:14,759
Speaker 1: he was. He was one of the best leaders that

943
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:19,840
Speaker 1: I've seen who didn't who didn't talk. So he rarely,

944
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:24,440
Speaker 1: he rarely said anything. But with him, there was never

945
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:26,919
Speaker 1: so like you know, now, guys, I can shoot around,

946
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 1: there's it's kind of loose. There was never really moment

947
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 1: of looseness with him, like when he got ready to

948
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:36,399
Speaker 1: play wherever it was practiced for those games. I mean,

949
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 1: he was locked in and serious and he was he

950
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 1: wasn't a guy like he was a guy that if

951
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:45,920
Speaker 1: you were open and it was the right past or

952
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 1: the right play, he just made the past in the

953
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 1: play and he just had he just was wired that way. Um,

954
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:58,239
Speaker 1: and and he was really like he was There's He's

955
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:00,880
Speaker 1: just a he was a special guy. It's competitive, but

956
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:04,239
Speaker 1: just rare in his ability to lead like that and

957
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:07,720
Speaker 1: too to bring the energy up of a team without

958
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:11,279
Speaker 1: being a guy that really talked at all. What was

959
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 1: Googs like Tom Googliata? So yeah, so Google's was Um,

960
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:18,279
Speaker 1: you know this would be Google would be like a

961
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:24,000
Speaker 1: five four or five to day. Um. But you know,

962
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:26,279
Speaker 1: one of the things that I think that, like, his

963
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:29,400
Speaker 1: athleticism was a thing that I think people look at

964
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 1: him and he's you know, you know, still big, strong,

965
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:35,920
Speaker 1: white guy. He has such a quick second jump, so

966
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:37,719
Speaker 1: that I think that's what he was. Always such a

967
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:40,319
Speaker 1: good rebounder, you know, and just a good nose for

968
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:42,719
Speaker 1: how to play. Like in today's game, it's a little

969
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:44,880
Speaker 1: bit different, like Googs was a mid range guy, a

970
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:46,360
Speaker 1: little bit of a post up guy, but he was

971
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:48,319
Speaker 1: more of a guy that caught mid post would turn

972
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:50,239
Speaker 1: and face and be able to to create a shot

973
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:53,799
Speaker 1: for himself. But Um, just a really talented skilled guy.

974
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:56,279
Speaker 1: But you know, you know guys like this too. One

975
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 1: of those guys it's like not the highest energy guy

976
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 1: in practice, you know, not the most like in terms

977
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:05,880
Speaker 1: of basketball like you I don't know how he would rate, Um,

978
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 1: but just in basketball instinct and scoring instinct and the

979
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 1: nose for the ball like like he was, he was terrific. Um.

980
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 1: And you know who was on that team really the

981
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:19,360
Speaker 1: other guy that like in today's game, you look at

982
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:21,279
Speaker 1: him and you're like, this guy would have made you know,

983
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:24,840
Speaker 1: eighteen million dollars a year. He's Cliff Robinson, Like Cliff

984
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:28,760
Speaker 1: Robinson was the was like, he's that guy who's a

985
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 1: uh four three. He could guard threes, he could go

986
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 1: and guard small fours, he could shoot three, he could

987
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:37,719
Speaker 1: guard in the post, and then he could go on

988
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 1: the perimeter like he was. He he was going he's

989
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 1: born too soon. He was. He was too shoot and

990
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 1: so most people like he would I think back then,

991
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 1: would almost get the because he could guard in the perimeter.

992
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:52,279
Speaker 1: You could play him at small forward. But he was

993
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:54,719
Speaker 1: a guy back then who he wasn't quite a keen

994
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:56,759
Speaker 1: tweener because he was big enough, but he wasn't like

995
00:50:56,760 --> 00:50:59,799
Speaker 1: a phototypical power forward. Now he's the kind of guy

996
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:03,040
Speaker 1: that every team would want as powerful. So that that

997
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:05,960
Speaker 1: year's you mentioned it was a lockout shortened year, and

998
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 1: lockout shortened years have kind of sneakily, and I believe

999
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:13,360
Speaker 1: that was the That was the first time where and

1000
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 1: I want to say, like, didn't that ruin Sean Kemp,

1001
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:18,760
Speaker 1: Like some of these guys came back in terrible shape

1002
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:22,840
Speaker 1: and they kind of never recovered, right, Yeah, No, it

1003
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 1: was yeah, because there was we had a pretty good

1004
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:28,360
Speaker 1: thing going on in Phoenix because because Jake Kid organized

1005
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:31,000
Speaker 1: workouts at this health club, Like so we were working out,

1006
00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 1: we were playing take up every day. There were there

1007
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:34,279
Speaker 1: were a lot of guys that were there. And then

1008
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:35,879
Speaker 1: there are guys that lived in Phoenix at the time,

1009
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:38,279
Speaker 1: like Barkley and some of those other guys would show

1010
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 1: up and work out, so they were good pick up things.

1011
00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 1: But there were other guys that were just off the map.

1012
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 1: And you know, you remember that that exhibition game that

1013
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:50,000
Speaker 1: the Players Association had where they tried to create something

1014
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:52,360
Speaker 1: to make some money and get some guys paid, and

1015
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:56,400
Speaker 1: some guys showed up to there like thirty forty pounds overweight.

1016
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:58,440
Speaker 1: It was like a terrible game and you're like, oh

1017
00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:01,799
Speaker 1: my gosh, what is this sort this all about? But yeah,

1018
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:04,120
Speaker 1: there were that was a tough That was a tough

1019
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:07,400
Speaker 1: stretch for a lot of guys. I think, yeah, I think, uh,

1020
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 1: the guys that that I remember, I remember Mitch Richmond

1021
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:17,680
Speaker 1: really struggling, Uh, Larry Johnson, Scottie Pippen, because that was

1022
00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 1: Scottie Pippen with the he was at the Rockets, and

1023
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:23,560
Speaker 1: then Sean Kemp and Sean Kemp and Vin Baker were

1024
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:27,399
Speaker 1: the two who like they never gained so much weight,

1025
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:30,320
Speaker 1: and obviously Ben had the alcohol problem as well, but

1026
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:33,960
Speaker 1: they like literally never Sean Kemp supposedly weighed like to

1027
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:36,759
Speaker 1: seventy five, which means you really weighed three hundreds like

1028
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:40,600
Speaker 1: he just never Mitch Richmond, Sean Kemp, Vin Baker never

1029
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:44,359
Speaker 1: recovered from the lockout. Yeah, and that was a year

1030
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 1: too where you you kind of hear about everything today

1031
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:51,640
Speaker 1: of of kind of managing players workloads and and trying

1032
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 1: to spread the schedule out and of what like there.

1033
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 1: I think we played like thirteen back to back here

1034
00:52:57,239 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 1: this year in Detroit, which is just like such a

1035
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:02,840
Speaker 1: low that that was a game during the lock to

1036
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:04,799
Speaker 1: get all those games in, but to get fifty games

1037
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 1: in between January and the first and May, there were

1038
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 1: they played three in a row and there were there

1039
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:13,279
Speaker 1: were a couple of times when we played six and

1040
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 1: seven nights. It was just like completely insane. So you

1041
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:21,840
Speaker 1: go to Orlando, Um, what was it like to go

1042
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:23,520
Speaker 1: to bed? You know, now of a sudden, you you

1043
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:25,400
Speaker 1: were traded before you ever got to the NBA, but

1044
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:28,560
Speaker 1: now you've traded in your career. What's that like to

1045
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 1: you know, pick everything up and now you're in Orlando. Yeah,

1046
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 1: so that was the best. It was like the best

1047
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 1: thing that could have happened for my career there. So

1048
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:39,960
Speaker 1: Orlando at the time, that was the joke, like that

1049
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:43,759
Speaker 1: was the original tank job, like John Gabriel, like that

1050
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:47,680
Speaker 1: was the team of at the end of the Shock, Penny,

1051
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:52,920
Speaker 1: Nick Anderson, Dennis Scott, so you know the prior two years,

1052
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:55,840
Speaker 1: you know, Shock had left in nineties six, I believe

1053
00:53:56,600 --> 00:53:58,920
Speaker 1: UM and they were just it was at the end

1054
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:00,920
Speaker 1: of it. I think Penny was little bit discrotald. So

1055
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:04,399
Speaker 1: they were trading everyone away and Nick got traded to Sacramento.

1056
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:07,440
Speaker 1: I was in the trade with Danny Manning and you know,

1057
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:11,280
Speaker 1: like you know, another first or multiple firsts for Penny Hardaway.

1058
00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:15,200
Speaker 1: And their plan that year was was the original tank job,

1059
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:18,920
Speaker 1: Like they were gonna get rookie guys, kind of cast

1060
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:22,960
Speaker 1: off type of guys, cheap contracts, get a ton of

1061
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 1: cap space for the two thousand season, and and not

1062
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 1: really care about winning. UM. Now, the problem with that

1063
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:33,640
Speaker 1: was they had Dr Rivers as the first year coach,

1064
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:36,279
Speaker 1: who you just saw it again this year, like he's

1065
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:39,080
Speaker 1: his best, his best attribute, just just getting guys to

1066
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:42,840
Speaker 1: believe in themselves and motivating them. And we ended up

1067
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:45,319
Speaker 1: having we We ended up going forty one. You want

1068
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:48,279
Speaker 1: to miss the playoffs by one game. One of the guys,

1069
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:52,719
Speaker 1: like the main reason that was Ben Wallace. Like Ben Wallace.

1070
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:55,960
Speaker 1: They got Ben Wallace in the trade from Washington, and

1071
00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:58,640
Speaker 1: Ben Wallace was just like they threw Ben Wallace into

1072
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:00,480
Speaker 1: a trade and ended up in Orlan. I don't think

1073
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:02,880
Speaker 1: anyone in the Orlando even you know, I knew that

1074
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:05,840
Speaker 1: he was going to play there. And we had we

1075
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:07,879
Speaker 1: We just had a bunch of guys that played really

1076
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:11,840
Speaker 1: hard together. Darryl Armstrong, Mike Miller was a rookie. We

1077
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:16,279
Speaker 1: had Monty Williams who played small forward, John Amici, who

1078
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:19,960
Speaker 1: had just had a terrific year as a starting center.

1079
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:22,719
Speaker 1: Um I actually is the back up centering back at

1080
00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:24,879
Speaker 1: Ben Wallace, And so we just put up put these

1081
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:28,279
Speaker 1: lineups together. Harpering was there, he was a little bit hurt.

1082
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:31,759
Speaker 1: Doctor just mixed and matched all these different lineups and

1083
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:36,320
Speaker 1: ended up doing doing much much better than anyone projected

1084
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:39,160
Speaker 1: into this day. It's still my favorite season in the NBA,

1085
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:42,320
Speaker 1: just because of the guys and the coaching staff and

1086
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 1: everyone who was a part of that, and the and

1087
00:55:44,719 --> 00:55:49,160
Speaker 1: the low expectations, right, like the expectation just playing having fun. Hey,

1088
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:53,200
Speaker 1: Ron Mercer was on that team. And and while he

1089
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:56,280
Speaker 1: put up some numbers at various times in his career,

1090
00:55:57,320 --> 00:55:58,920
Speaker 1: I mean, here's the guy who was the top five

1091
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:02,879
Speaker 1: high school American All Amarnic in Kentucky, and he never

1092
00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 1: really became Was it as simple as he couldn't shoot,

1093
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:07,960
Speaker 1: Like he was never a good enough shooter to be

1094
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:10,479
Speaker 1: a two guard. He was in the in the NBA,

1095
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:14,800
Speaker 1: well at that time, he he wasn't good for for

1096
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:18,479
Speaker 1: for that time. He was always a pretty good score.

1097
00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:20,560
Speaker 1: And Ron Mercer came mid season in a trade. So

1098
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:23,680
Speaker 1: we started off this season with with Terak Abdulahad and

1099
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:26,839
Speaker 1: Chris Gatling. Those guys were traded in Denver. And that's

1100
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:29,800
Speaker 1: how Ron and and actually Chauncey was part of that

1101
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:34,359
Speaker 1: trade too, all got there. Uh but yeah, Ron, if

1102
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:37,640
Speaker 1: you look at Ron's career, I mean, Ron was a talented,

1103
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:42,200
Speaker 1: talented score, but never never a three point shooter. He

1104
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:44,160
Speaker 1: was a mid range guy, like you run he was,

1105
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:46,759
Speaker 1: like he was like the floppy guy, like you bring

1106
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:49,600
Speaker 1: him off screens, mid range jumps, touch and sho jump shots.

1107
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:52,239
Speaker 1: That's that's that's what he was able to do. Um,

1108
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:54,960
Speaker 1: but not you know, Ron was a guy that was

1109
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:56,879
Speaker 1: just he was just you put him in the game,

1110
00:56:57,000 --> 00:57:00,520
Speaker 1: you do his thing. But he wasn't really an outgoing guy. UM.

1111
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:03,839
Speaker 1: But ended up having you know, a pretty good career.

1112
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:05,800
Speaker 1: I mean I think, you know, average over double figures

1113
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:08,600
Speaker 1: for his career, and you know, he was out of

1114
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:10,279
Speaker 1: the league I'm looking out of the league, but I

1115
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:13,960
Speaker 1: think before he was thirty. Um. But yeah, just the

1116
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:16,240
Speaker 1: guy who was you know, good score, but maybe just

1117
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:19,240
Speaker 1: didn't do enough other things too to hang his hat on.

1118
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:21,800
Speaker 1: So the next year, you guys got Tracy McGrady and

1119
00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:25,280
Speaker 1: Grant Hill. Obviously Grant was what was injured. What was

1120
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:30,880
Speaker 1: Tracy McGrady Like, Yeah, so Tracy McGrady was was just

1121
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:34,240
Speaker 1: such a special plan. And I think you know, people

1122
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:37,560
Speaker 1: who remember the NBA during that time, obviously like he

1123
00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:42,280
Speaker 1: competed for multiple scoring championships. But and you asked anyone

1124
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:44,080
Speaker 1: that played with him or coached him, you know that

1125
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:46,360
Speaker 1: Jeff that Gunny says, there's all the time too. Tracy

1126
00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:48,840
Speaker 1: McGrady was one of the best passers there was, and

1127
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 1: he was so effective because he could do a different way.

1128
00:57:54,040 --> 00:57:56,760
Speaker 1: So he could you could put him in pick and roll,

1129
00:57:57,640 --> 00:58:00,600
Speaker 1: and he developed a good enough shot where you had

1130
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:02,320
Speaker 1: to you had to go over the top on him

1131
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:04,880
Speaker 1: if you tried to track him. He was big enough

1132
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:07,760
Speaker 1: where he could pick you apart on on those kind

1133
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:10,040
Speaker 1: of traps. And then the other thing if you put

1134
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:12,040
Speaker 1: a smaller guy on him. And I remember, you know,

1135
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:13,960
Speaker 1: teams used to do this, like Philly would do this.

1136
00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:17,040
Speaker 1: They put Eric Snow on him, um, just to you know,

1137
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:19,919
Speaker 1: rub with Eric Snow, tough guy rough. He would take

1138
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:23,480
Speaker 1: you down on the post and he would make plays

1139
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:25,880
Speaker 1: out of the post, like you have to double team him.

1140
00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:29,320
Speaker 1: And so he made my career there like all like

1141
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:31,640
Speaker 1: once he got there and you were in the game

1142
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:33,920
Speaker 1: with him, it was just get your spacing right out

1143
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:36,120
Speaker 1: of double teams and shoot three and he was going

1144
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:38,920
Speaker 1: to get you the ball. So he was. He was

1145
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 1: another one. I mean he was. He was for me.

1146
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:43,440
Speaker 1: I think he was the best player that I had

1147
00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:45,680
Speaker 1: ever that that I ever played with in the NBA.

1148
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:47,920
Speaker 1: I mean, he you know, it was a shame that

1149
00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:51,160
Speaker 1: those teams just weren't strong enough where he got that

1150
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:53,040
Speaker 1: label of, you know, never making it out of the

1151
00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:54,920
Speaker 1: first round of the playoffs, and I don't think he

1152
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:56,800
Speaker 1: did that until later in his career when he was

1153
00:58:56,880 --> 00:59:00,480
Speaker 1: with San Antonio. But you know, but I mean, like,

1154
00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:02,480
Speaker 1: look that that would be my criticism would be, like

1155
00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:06,240
Speaker 1: how can you be viewed as this all time great

1156
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:09,560
Speaker 1: and like, like I get it, like any year you

1157
00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:12,200
Speaker 1: have bad luck and the and the series were shorter

1158
00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:14,040
Speaker 1: back then, and they had some injuries, and you know,

1159
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:17,480
Speaker 1: Grant was never really right physically, But how can you

1160
00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:20,680
Speaker 1: never get out of the playoffs? Well, I mean first round.

1161
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:24,160
Speaker 1: We're not talking about championship, We're talking about first round. Yeah. Well,

1162
00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:25,960
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of times, like I was your

1163
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:28,240
Speaker 1: starting power forward, so it wasn't like we had the

1164
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:32,480
Speaker 1: strongest team in the world. Um, But but it would

1165
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:34,480
Speaker 1: have been like, look, it would have been totally different

1166
00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:37,800
Speaker 1: if Grant Hill were healthy, like those two guys together

1167
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:41,840
Speaker 1: like that, it would have been different. Like McGrady was

1168
00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:45,360
Speaker 1: carrying a team and every year was like trying to

1169
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:48,960
Speaker 1: patch it together around him with different bigs and different

1170
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:52,680
Speaker 1: you know, so he never he was kind of just

1171
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:56,680
Speaker 1: be a lone guy on those teams. Um. But what

1172
00:59:56,880 --> 00:59:59,760
Speaker 1: was taken. Your your point is he is well taken.

1173
00:59:59,840 --> 01:00:02,240
Speaker 1: Like you know, if he was that good wine up

1174
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:03,960
Speaker 1: you look at what he did. It was hard to

1175
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:05,920
Speaker 1: argue that he did that he could have done more.

1176
01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:13,840
Speaker 1: Um what was Grant Hill like? Uh so Grant there

1177
01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:17,120
Speaker 1: was a guy who had like a special feel for

1178
01:00:17,240 --> 01:00:21,040
Speaker 1: the game. Um, you know, just just a terrific team

1179
01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:24,320
Speaker 1: and had a tripic guy to be around. Um, he

1180
01:00:24,640 --> 01:00:26,760
Speaker 1: very kind of mature in his outlook. But just you

1181
01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:29,960
Speaker 1: you just never with us, never got to see what

1182
01:00:30,080 --> 01:00:31,520
Speaker 1: alsom know that he was able to do, Like when

1183
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:33,600
Speaker 1: he left and get healthy with Phoenix, is him at

1184
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:37,320
Speaker 1: full strength and with without the thought in the back

1185
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:39,880
Speaker 1: of his mind of either you know I'm not fully

1186
01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:42,040
Speaker 1: right or you know he tells you what he was right?

1187
01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:44,920
Speaker 1: How long is this going to last? Um? But we

1188
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:46,720
Speaker 1: spent a lot of time together. There was a season

1189
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:49,080
Speaker 1: where I was out for most of the season rehabbing

1190
01:00:49,120 --> 01:00:50,680
Speaker 1: my knee, and you know, we spent a lot of

1191
01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:53,480
Speaker 1: time together talking about life and business and different things.

1192
01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:57,680
Speaker 1: And um, literally just an outstanding guy. He is an

1193
01:00:57,680 --> 01:01:00,840
Speaker 1: amazing guy. I've spent some time with him, and he

1194
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:02,840
Speaker 1: also is a guy who hasn't always let a lot

1195
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:05,360
Speaker 1: of people in you know, or maybe in the in

1196
01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:08,600
Speaker 1: the media. He doesn't. He doesn't project away in which

1197
01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:11,480
Speaker 1: he allows people in because once you get to know

1198
01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:14,080
Speaker 1: the real Grant Hill, you're like, this guy is amazing.

1199
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:16,880
Speaker 1: I really like him. You know, it's and it's not

1200
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:19,160
Speaker 1: it's not that far. It's not far away from what

1201
01:01:19,320 --> 01:01:21,520
Speaker 1: the images. You know, It's not like he's one person

1202
01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:23,480
Speaker 1: and then a different person with the real Grand Hill.

1203
01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:25,640
Speaker 1: I'm just saying like he is one of the guys

1204
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:27,360
Speaker 1: that once you open up the hood, he's like, I

1205
01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:29,720
Speaker 1: really like Grand Hill. I like him. I almost wish

1206
01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:32,120
Speaker 1: he would tell show people like what a real normal,

1207
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:36,320
Speaker 1: what a real dude he is. Um, this is an

1208
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:40,920
Speaker 1: important one because too loves good restaurants. So he's a

1209
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:43,440
Speaker 1: fun guy that you're right, like, very conscious so of

1210
01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:45,560
Speaker 1: you know, what he says around people that he's not

1211
01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:50,440
Speaker 1: close with and protective of of you know, its privacy. Um,

1212
01:01:50,920 --> 01:01:52,880
Speaker 1: this is an important one because you your life now

1213
01:01:53,040 --> 01:01:55,480
Speaker 1: with the Pistons is as an evalue eid, right, part

1214
01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:56,920
Speaker 1: of what you do and there's a lot of things

1215
01:01:56,960 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 1: you do, but is that how did like rees Gains

1216
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:04,680
Speaker 1: was a massive miss? Right? Okay? So re screens is

1217
01:02:04,760 --> 01:02:09,800
Speaker 1: drafted out of Louisville in two thousand three, And um,

1218
01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:12,520
Speaker 1: I mean, you know he was here's a here's a

1219
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:17,000
Speaker 1: lottery pick six six point guard. And I mean you

1220
01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:20,080
Speaker 1: guys couldn't get rid of him soon enough? When did

1221
01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:26,919
Speaker 1: you know he didn't have it? Uh? Yeah, gosh, that's

1222
01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:30,200
Speaker 1: I would. I would probably be making it up if

1223
01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:32,160
Speaker 1: I if I told you I had like a distinct

1224
01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:34,760
Speaker 1: memory of when he wasn't gonna make it. So I

1225
01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:36,560
Speaker 1: just don't know. I mean, I just didn't think that

1226
01:02:36,680 --> 01:02:40,080
Speaker 1: there was This is not about Reese, but just kind

1227
01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:45,000
Speaker 1: of in general, you can tell pretty pretty early on

1228
01:02:45,200 --> 01:02:48,960
Speaker 1: just the level of confidence that a player has. And

1229
01:02:49,280 --> 01:02:53,480
Speaker 1: and so from aside from the top fifty hundred players

1230
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:55,720
Speaker 1: in the NBA, there's not a ton of separation really

1231
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:58,800
Speaker 1: in talent kind of with that, with that, next with

1232
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:02,000
Speaker 1: with that, you know two or three D. But what

1233
01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:05,200
Speaker 1: there is a separation of is like just kind of

1234
01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:08,640
Speaker 1: an innate belief in yourself and that you belong and

1235
01:03:08,720 --> 01:03:11,160
Speaker 1: that you can do it. And I think that that

1236
01:03:11,480 --> 01:03:15,200
Speaker 1: wasn't there for him. And I think that, um a

1237
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:17,200
Speaker 1: little bit probably had to do with I think the

1238
01:03:17,360 --> 01:03:19,440
Speaker 1: idea was, you know, could he played point guard and

1239
01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:21,960
Speaker 1: just didn't have the point guard skills. And you know,

1240
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:25,320
Speaker 1: if the idea there's no quicker way with anyone to

1241
01:03:25,520 --> 01:03:28,880
Speaker 1: like destroy their confidence then thinking you can make someone

1242
01:03:28,920 --> 01:03:32,000
Speaker 1: into a point guard and then putting them against the

1243
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:35,280
Speaker 1: NBA point guards, and then that's not working right away.

1244
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:38,480
Speaker 1: So I think that that that that just that had

1245
01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:40,360
Speaker 1: a lot to do with this situation. I think is

1246
01:03:40,440 --> 01:03:43,400
Speaker 1: that Sean Restaur had that too. Sean Restur, I mean,

1247
01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:46,160
Speaker 1: there's Sean Restur was never a point guard, and you

1248
01:03:46,200 --> 01:03:48,080
Speaker 1: know Eric Snow is his point guard in Michigan State.

1249
01:03:48,120 --> 01:03:51,080
Speaker 1: And I know there's some health stuff too, but you know,

1250
01:03:51,520 --> 01:03:53,680
Speaker 1: I it's it's interesting, you know, you ask a guy

1251
01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:56,720
Speaker 1: to do something he's never done before and or never

1252
01:03:56,800 --> 01:03:59,720
Speaker 1: done at that level against. You're asking guys to do

1253
01:03:59,840 --> 01:04:03,560
Speaker 1: some thing against a ridiculous level of competition, usually last

1254
01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:06,480
Speaker 1: minutes than they've ever had um and the all of

1255
01:04:06,520 --> 01:04:08,000
Speaker 1: sudden they have to think and they're just kind of

1256
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:12,760
Speaker 1: all all locked up. When did you become super involved

1257
01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:19,080
Speaker 1: in the player Association? I became involved. So that's my

1258
01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:21,960
Speaker 1: first couple of years in Orlando. I was a player rep.

1259
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:23,520
Speaker 1: So every team has a player rep and you know,

1260
01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:25,120
Speaker 1: you go to the meetings and kind of or the

1261
01:04:25,320 --> 01:04:28,800
Speaker 1: you take the information back to your team, and um,

1262
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:31,760
Speaker 1: I think find my my third year in the league,

1263
01:04:31,800 --> 01:04:34,440
Speaker 1: there was a possession on the Executive Committee that was

1264
01:04:34,520 --> 01:04:36,280
Speaker 1: opening up and brand for that at one of the

1265
01:04:36,320 --> 01:04:39,200
Speaker 1: meetings and got elected and then so that that really

1266
01:04:39,240 --> 01:04:41,000
Speaker 1: the start of my involvement, because when you remember the

1267
01:04:41,080 --> 01:04:43,560
Speaker 1: executive committee, it's it's much more involved. I mean you're

1268
01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:46,320
Speaker 1: doing a lot of conference calls and meetings and kind

1269
01:04:46,360 --> 01:04:50,840
Speaker 1: of getting ready for collective bargaining. So, um, it was

1270
01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:55,720
Speaker 1: around that time my second or third year, UM, and

1271
01:04:55,880 --> 01:04:57,680
Speaker 1: stay involved with it throughout my whole career, and it

1272
01:04:57,760 --> 01:04:59,439
Speaker 1: was it was something that I enjoyed kind of learning

1273
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:03,640
Speaker 1: about how how that aspect of the business worked, and

1274
01:05:04,360 --> 01:05:06,560
Speaker 1: I met a lot of good people and like really

1275
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:10,480
Speaker 1: great learning experiences about how how the how the NBA

1276
01:05:10,520 --> 01:05:15,240
Speaker 1: actually worked as a business. Um. So is it fair

1277
01:05:15,320 --> 01:05:18,240
Speaker 1: to say, like I always reference who would know better

1278
01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:20,480
Speaker 1: about the cap than a guy who basically wrote this

1279
01:05:20,600 --> 01:05:22,960
Speaker 1: kind of new cap? Um? Is that is that a

1280
01:05:23,040 --> 01:05:28,040
Speaker 1: fair assessment of your level of knowledge over how this

1281
01:05:28,320 --> 01:05:31,560
Speaker 1: this particular salary cap works. Well, I mean I think

1282
01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:34,560
Speaker 1: that there's there's other people that have spent much much

1283
01:05:34,640 --> 01:05:37,560
Speaker 1: more time kind of digging into the nuances than me that.

1284
01:05:37,680 --> 01:05:39,960
Speaker 1: So I wouldn't call myself kind of the top. I

1285
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:42,360
Speaker 1: wouldn't call myself the lead in terms of knowing account

1286
01:05:42,680 --> 01:05:44,800
Speaker 1: But it was the one thing that I that I

1287
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:49,360
Speaker 1: think I I think I do have is that just

1288
01:05:49,720 --> 01:05:53,440
Speaker 1: the context of why some of these rules are the

1289
01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:56,400
Speaker 1: way that they are, because the way that the c

1290
01:05:56,640 --> 01:06:00,760
Speaker 1: BA has written, it's not like there's some like logical

1291
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:02,920
Speaker 1: plan for why the rules are the way they are,

1292
01:06:03,160 --> 01:06:05,480
Speaker 1: a lot of it is just based on precedents that

1293
01:06:05,560 --> 01:06:09,960
Speaker 1: have evolved over thirty years, forty years starting with you know,

1294
01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:13,520
Speaker 1: the biggest change was in when there was that lockout,

1295
01:06:13,560 --> 01:06:15,520
Speaker 1: and then another change in two thousand five and two

1296
01:06:15,560 --> 01:06:18,720
Speaker 1: thousand ten and then recently. So I think that's you know,

1297
01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:22,800
Speaker 1: knowing being able to kind of recall rules and why

1298
01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:24,800
Speaker 1: the way things are just because I had the context

1299
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:27,480
Speaker 1: of why they were there in the first place. I

1300
01:06:27,560 --> 01:06:30,640
Speaker 1: think is is something that's been really valuable, and it

1301
01:06:30,800 --> 01:06:33,440
Speaker 1: was really valuable about that time. What's the one thing

1302
01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:40,920
Speaker 1: about the salary cap that most fans don't realize? Um, Well,

1303
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:44,200
Speaker 1: I think that it's um the one thing that I

1304
01:06:44,280 --> 01:06:45,720
Speaker 1: think is just really hard is it's kind of this

1305
01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:48,200
Speaker 1: time of year when it's free agency, is just figuring

1306
01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:53,040
Speaker 1: out what teams actually have to work with because a

1307
01:06:53,120 --> 01:06:57,439
Speaker 1: lot of that information isn't public and there are there

1308
01:06:57,480 --> 01:06:59,920
Speaker 1: are little ways to operate both as a team of

1309
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:01,920
Speaker 1: of and below the cap and just different ways that

1310
01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:04,840
Speaker 1: you have to do business in those cases. So that

1311
01:07:04,960 --> 01:07:07,400
Speaker 1: that's probably the hardest thing is right now when you're

1312
01:07:07,400 --> 01:07:10,800
Speaker 1: seeing kind of all this movement happened and you know,

1313
01:07:11,000 --> 01:07:13,280
Speaker 1: and okay, does a team can the team still signed

1314
01:07:13,320 --> 01:07:15,400
Speaker 1: this guy that guy and they can't or they can't

1315
01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:18,640
Speaker 1: Just know and knowing how a team is getting at,

1316
01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:21,040
Speaker 1: you know, the room below the cap they're trying to

1317
01:07:21,080 --> 01:07:23,280
Speaker 1: operate with, I think is the hardest thing to understand

1318
01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:26,680
Speaker 1: for most fans. You finished in two thousand eight, and

1319
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:29,520
Speaker 1: you decide to thirty one years old, right, and you're

1320
01:07:29,560 --> 01:07:33,880
Speaker 1: never really the same after the knee, Um you decided

1321
01:07:33,880 --> 01:07:35,560
Speaker 1: to go with it was right then you decided to

1322
01:07:35,600 --> 01:07:37,080
Speaker 1: go get your m B A or what was the

1323
01:07:37,160 --> 01:07:38,880
Speaker 1: what was the process like of deciding to get your

1324
01:07:38,960 --> 01:07:41,560
Speaker 1: NBA from do? Yeah, that's all I thought about it

1325
01:07:41,640 --> 01:07:43,520
Speaker 1: that friends who are who you know? I went to

1326
01:07:43,560 --> 01:07:46,080
Speaker 1: school with gone to business school, and to me, it

1327
01:07:46,120 --> 01:07:49,840
Speaker 1: seemed like a good transition into whatever was nuts and

1328
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:52,240
Speaker 1: I didn't know it was next. So business school seemed

1329
01:07:52,240 --> 01:07:56,240
Speaker 1: like a good way to kind of organized that that

1330
01:07:56,680 --> 01:07:58,520
Speaker 1: project of kind of moving on to the next thing.

1331
01:07:58,640 --> 01:08:01,600
Speaker 1: So I remember I retired in two thousand and eight.

1332
01:08:01,640 --> 01:08:04,200
Speaker 1: I you know, physically, I knew I was done. It

1333
01:08:04,280 --> 01:08:05,560
Speaker 1: was it was hard for me to put in the

1334
01:08:05,640 --> 01:08:07,040
Speaker 1: work that I need to put in just to be

1335
01:08:07,120 --> 01:08:09,240
Speaker 1: at a level where I could compete with with guys

1336
01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:12,640
Speaker 1: from the useful Player. So I remember I retired and

1337
01:08:14,280 --> 01:08:18,200
Speaker 1: had been studying for the g mat um, you know,

1338
01:08:18,320 --> 01:08:20,360
Speaker 1: for the summers. So it took that and it took

1339
01:08:20,400 --> 01:08:22,799
Speaker 1: a year off and applied to a couple of different

1340
01:08:22,840 --> 01:08:25,720
Speaker 1: schools and ended up getting into Duke, which worked out

1341
01:08:25,760 --> 01:08:29,439
Speaker 1: really well because it's proximity to to Orlando, where I

1342
01:08:29,479 --> 01:08:31,720
Speaker 1: was living at the time, and just went They're not

1343
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:34,160
Speaker 1: really with a plan of what I wanted to do,

1344
01:08:34,439 --> 01:08:37,160
Speaker 1: but just kind of take use that time as the

1345
01:08:37,240 --> 01:08:40,760
Speaker 1: time to learn and developed some relationships and kind of

1346
01:08:40,760 --> 01:08:44,560
Speaker 1: see what else was out there. So uh, okay, but

1347
01:08:44,720 --> 01:08:48,040
Speaker 1: go back though your year off what you do? Oh,

1348
01:08:48,120 --> 01:08:50,800
Speaker 1: it was great. I worked out a ton. I played golf.

1349
01:08:51,880 --> 01:08:54,360
Speaker 1: It was you know, traveled around and a lot of

1350
01:08:54,720 --> 01:08:57,120
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff. Um, you know, it was the

1351
01:08:57,200 --> 01:08:59,519
Speaker 1: first year of just not really doing anything, but I

1352
01:08:59,600 --> 01:09:03,200
Speaker 1: seemed to find time to fill my time. But yeah,

1353
01:09:03,240 --> 01:09:05,120
Speaker 1: I mean living in Orlando. I lived in Bay Hill,

1354
01:09:05,240 --> 01:09:06,840
Speaker 1: so I was at a golf cart that I could

1355
01:09:06,840 --> 01:09:08,760
Speaker 1: describe at the course and play whenever I want. So

1356
01:09:08,840 --> 01:09:10,600
Speaker 1: it was I was the best that I ever was

1357
01:09:10,600 --> 01:09:13,320
Speaker 1: a golf during that year. I'll say that. Okay, so

1358
01:09:13,840 --> 01:09:16,439
Speaker 1: you get done at Duke and was it right then

1359
01:09:16,479 --> 01:09:19,800
Speaker 1: that Like I've been told that before you took the

1360
01:09:20,479 --> 01:09:24,080
Speaker 1: Pistons job, you'd like offered up to Columbia, Like, hey,

1361
01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:26,000
Speaker 1: I'll come to your third assistant. I just want to

1362
01:09:26,160 --> 01:09:29,280
Speaker 1: I just want to learn about coaching. Is that accurate? Well? No,

1363
01:09:29,400 --> 01:09:33,360
Speaker 1: I was working after that's right. You went to right,

1364
01:09:33,400 --> 01:09:36,599
Speaker 1: you went and you worked to the financial district, right, Yeah? Yeah,

1365
01:09:36,640 --> 01:09:40,200
Speaker 1: So I, um, I went. I interned for a year

1366
01:09:40,400 --> 01:09:43,040
Speaker 1: and it has been called Bridgewater Associates, and then they

1367
01:09:43,080 --> 01:09:46,240
Speaker 1: offered me a full time job after my internships. So

1368
01:09:46,400 --> 01:09:48,600
Speaker 1: right after business school two does and I'm moved up

1369
01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:51,280
Speaker 1: to Connecticut with my family. You worked there for three

1370
01:09:51,360 --> 01:09:53,720
Speaker 1: years And it was at that time I had a

1371
01:09:53,840 --> 01:09:58,040
Speaker 1: friend whose son was like junior in high school. He

1372
01:09:58,160 --> 01:10:00,200
Speaker 1: was gonna play on any you Tube and my friends like, hey,

1373
01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:02,800
Speaker 1: can you help my help this team out a little bit.

1374
01:10:02,880 --> 01:10:06,880
Speaker 1: So I started coaching with another guy this team and

1375
01:10:07,000 --> 01:10:08,680
Speaker 1: it was like a mid level team, like you know,

1376
01:10:08,760 --> 01:10:10,960
Speaker 1: some D two guys like you know, maybe one D

1377
01:10:11,120 --> 01:10:15,400
Speaker 1: one guy. But um, I really enjoyed it. And I'm like, man,

1378
01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:19,639
Speaker 1: I really do miss basketball. I mean, like the career

1379
01:10:19,840 --> 01:10:24,040
Speaker 1: was stimulating, its interesting, was hard challenge, but it wasn't basketball.

1380
01:10:24,160 --> 01:10:26,240
Speaker 1: And so I think that time away from the game

1381
01:10:26,360 --> 01:10:28,360
Speaker 1: was good, but it's kind of it allowed me to

1382
01:10:28,439 --> 01:10:32,439
Speaker 1: kind of you know, shake the player off and and

1383
01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:34,920
Speaker 1: try to try to be involved in the game a

1384
01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:37,640
Speaker 1: different way. And so I was, I was like, I

1385
01:10:37,840 --> 01:10:41,840
Speaker 1: really enjoy I really enjoyed this coaching stuff. And so

1386
01:10:42,280 --> 01:10:44,240
Speaker 1: I I you know, I talked to different people about

1387
01:10:44,280 --> 01:10:47,040
Speaker 1: different things. You know, I'm so lucky the advice that

1388
01:10:47,120 --> 01:10:49,479
Speaker 1: I got though, like after being back in the game

1389
01:10:49,560 --> 01:10:52,080
Speaker 1: now and like looking at the coaches lives and I'm

1390
01:10:52,120 --> 01:10:53,960
Speaker 1: looking at the life of the front office person. It's

1391
01:10:54,000 --> 01:10:56,960
Speaker 1: not that like this job goes on year round, but

1392
01:10:57,880 --> 01:11:02,320
Speaker 1: I would have been a terrible coach. Um, wait, wait,

1393
01:11:02,479 --> 01:11:05,800
Speaker 1: isn't Bridgewater. Isn't that what Billions is based upon. I

1394
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:09,160
Speaker 1: think it's Billions is based upon point seven two, which

1395
01:11:09,200 --> 01:11:12,640
Speaker 1: is at a formerly a sac But I think that

1396
01:11:12,760 --> 01:11:16,519
Speaker 1: there's there's elements of kind of every every cliche, Hudge

1397
01:11:16,560 --> 01:11:21,120
Speaker 1: funds traits that are wrapped into that. But I because

1398
01:11:21,120 --> 01:11:23,439
Speaker 1: I had a neighbor when I was in Connecticut that

1399
01:11:23,520 --> 01:11:27,640
Speaker 1: worked at Bridgewater, and he I think he told me,

1400
01:11:27,800 --> 01:11:30,600
Speaker 1: isn't there some policy where like everything is shared, like

1401
01:11:30,800 --> 01:11:34,240
Speaker 1: every email, everyone knows about every email in the company

1402
01:11:34,360 --> 01:11:36,960
Speaker 1: or something like that. Is that is that accurate? Yeah,

1403
01:11:37,120 --> 01:11:40,920
Speaker 1: it's it's it's a unique place. Every meeting is recorded

1404
01:11:41,280 --> 01:11:44,320
Speaker 1: and you have access to every like that meeting recordings

1405
01:11:44,360 --> 01:11:47,439
Speaker 1: are shared. And yeah, the whole idea is like the

1406
01:11:47,560 --> 01:11:50,160
Speaker 1: way you get better just by being kind of radically

1407
01:11:50,360 --> 01:11:53,439
Speaker 1: transparent and honest with each other. And it's takes a

1408
01:11:53,560 --> 01:11:55,880
Speaker 1: really tough place when you have when you have that

1409
01:11:55,960 --> 01:11:58,479
Speaker 1: kind of environment, but it's also a place where it's

1410
01:11:58,800 --> 01:12:01,559
Speaker 1: you know, that's it's how to drive the best out

1411
01:12:01,600 --> 01:12:04,560
Speaker 1: of you. So you get to the n b A

1412
01:12:04,880 --> 01:12:07,680
Speaker 1: and you get to the pistons and you guys have

1413
01:12:08,320 --> 01:12:11,599
Speaker 1: the Blake Griffin trade. How long before it was done?

1414
01:12:12,000 --> 01:12:15,840
Speaker 1: Did you know it was done? Well, I mean it

1415
01:12:16,040 --> 01:12:18,720
Speaker 1: was not up until kind of re agreed upon terms.

1416
01:12:18,840 --> 01:12:20,880
Speaker 1: I mean I think the time that we started talking

1417
01:12:20,960 --> 01:12:24,560
Speaker 1: about it until it was done. I mean it was

1418
01:12:24,760 --> 01:12:29,000
Speaker 1: a crazier long amount of time. Um, you know, like

1419
01:12:29,080 --> 01:12:30,479
Speaker 1: but like how does it? How does it? How does it?

1420
01:12:30,760 --> 01:12:33,000
Speaker 1: Like maybe here's a here's a better question. How does

1421
01:12:33,040 --> 01:12:35,559
Speaker 1: it start? Right? This? Did stand walk in one day

1422
01:12:35,600 --> 01:12:37,960
Speaker 1: and go like, hey, I want Blake Griffin? How did

1423
01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:41,040
Speaker 1: that happen? Well? No, I remember how how it happened?

1424
01:12:41,120 --> 01:12:44,320
Speaker 1: Is um Jeff Bauer who was the gym so were

1425
01:12:44,320 --> 01:12:46,280
Speaker 1: you during the season? We were the setup at the

1426
01:12:46,360 --> 01:12:48,240
Speaker 1: time was you know, standards had to much a president.

1427
01:12:48,320 --> 01:12:49,920
Speaker 1: Jeff Bauer was a GM so on a day to

1428
01:12:50,000 --> 01:12:53,240
Speaker 1: day basketball apps kind of basis, Jeff Bauer was was

1429
01:12:53,320 --> 01:12:55,280
Speaker 1: kind of the one taken calls from everyone and making

1430
01:12:55,360 --> 01:13:00,360
Speaker 1: calls and um not. I just remember one day kind

1431
01:13:00,360 --> 01:13:03,360
Speaker 1: of as I think it was in January, kind of

1432
01:13:03,439 --> 01:13:06,200
Speaker 1: called everyone together and said hey, is this something that

1433
01:13:06,360 --> 01:13:11,560
Speaker 1: we would we would continue doing? Um? And it was

1434
01:13:11,640 --> 01:13:14,920
Speaker 1: everyone's like, well, like this is it was never something

1435
01:13:14,960 --> 01:13:17,320
Speaker 1: of like Okay, let's develop a plan to see if

1436
01:13:17,360 --> 01:13:19,720
Speaker 1: we could go get Blake. But this is how a

1437
01:13:19,840 --> 01:13:24,080
Speaker 1: lot of these type of situations happen is that you know,

1438
01:13:24,160 --> 01:13:27,760
Speaker 1: there's a player that becomes available that can really, you know,

1439
01:13:27,960 --> 01:13:30,600
Speaker 1: change things for you that maybe otherwise wasn't and you

1440
01:13:30,760 --> 01:13:34,639
Speaker 1: just really have to think, like how will this work?

1441
01:13:34,880 --> 01:13:38,080
Speaker 1: And so you know, Jeff who was the one that negotiated,

1442
01:13:38,160 --> 01:13:41,519
Speaker 1: did the most of negotiating there, and yeah, it was

1443
01:13:41,680 --> 01:13:43,320
Speaker 1: it was such a it was a big it was

1444
01:13:43,400 --> 01:13:45,920
Speaker 1: a big departure from kind of what the team was

1445
01:13:45,960 --> 01:13:48,720
Speaker 1: at the time and a lot of questions about if

1446
01:13:48,760 --> 01:13:51,160
Speaker 1: it would really work that ended up you know, ended

1447
01:13:51,240 --> 01:13:54,679
Speaker 1: up making that deal. And I'll tell you what last

1448
01:13:54,800 --> 01:13:59,080
Speaker 1: year like, he was unreal with what he was able

1449
01:13:59,120 --> 01:14:02,240
Speaker 1: to do. So for for people who don't watch Blake

1450
01:14:02,320 --> 01:14:05,160
Speaker 1: on a daily basis as a foreign player, front off

1451
01:14:05,200 --> 01:14:08,040
Speaker 1: as executive, what is something about Blake Griffin that people

1452
01:14:08,080 --> 01:14:13,160
Speaker 1: should know? They don't know his by far? It is

1453
01:14:13,400 --> 01:14:16,920
Speaker 1: his level of preparation that goes into getting ready to

1454
01:14:16,960 --> 01:14:20,000
Speaker 1: play everyday. And you know, I know people have written

1455
01:14:20,040 --> 01:14:23,200
Speaker 1: about the money that that Lebron spends on getting ready

1456
01:14:23,200 --> 01:14:26,280
Speaker 1: and you know, no doubt that he does that but Blake,

1457
01:14:26,840 --> 01:14:28,840
Speaker 1: and I'm not familiar with kind of the whole routine

1458
01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:31,040
Speaker 1: that Lebron does, but it's clear like his whole life

1459
01:14:31,160 --> 01:14:33,760
Speaker 1: is about being ready to play. Blake to me is

1460
01:14:33,880 --> 01:14:36,920
Speaker 1: right up there with him in just how in tune

1461
01:14:37,000 --> 01:14:39,840
Speaker 1: he is with every aspect of performance, from his diet

1462
01:14:40,000 --> 01:14:43,479
Speaker 1: to his movement promp before he goes to press, to

1463
01:14:43,720 --> 01:14:47,400
Speaker 1: his routine mentally before he gets ready for the game, um,

1464
01:14:47,520 --> 01:14:51,200
Speaker 1: to his lifestyle you know outside of the game during

1465
01:14:51,240 --> 01:14:54,400
Speaker 1: the season. It's you know, the guy is the ultimate

1466
01:14:54,880 --> 01:14:57,400
Speaker 1: pro and warrior from from what I've seen in the

1467
01:14:57,479 --> 01:15:00,479
Speaker 1: last year and a half that he's been around. You're

1468
01:15:01,080 --> 01:15:04,160
Speaker 1: you know, look, you've been mentioned for GM jobs, um

1469
01:15:04,320 --> 01:15:06,840
Speaker 1: and your process of trying to you know, complete the

1470
01:15:06,880 --> 01:15:08,920
Speaker 1: task of fixing this thing in Detroit and there's all

1471
01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:11,840
Speaker 1: this kind of player movement. How do you balance out

1472
01:15:12,120 --> 01:15:15,960
Speaker 1: being happy doing your job and and looking forward with

1473
01:15:16,160 --> 01:15:19,400
Speaker 1: the next thing to have your your own shop to run. Yeah,

1474
01:15:19,520 --> 01:15:22,000
Speaker 1: So the the way that you do that, in my opinion,

1475
01:15:22,160 --> 01:15:25,200
Speaker 1: is that you just do your job right now. Like

1476
01:15:25,439 --> 01:15:28,160
Speaker 1: there's and I believe this too. I mean, I I

1477
01:15:28,560 --> 01:15:30,800
Speaker 1: think in the n b A is such a this

1478
01:15:31,040 --> 01:15:34,439
Speaker 1: durable business to be in and to work. And if

1479
01:15:34,479 --> 01:15:38,479
Speaker 1: you're a basketball person, so there's tons and tons of

1480
01:15:38,680 --> 01:15:41,040
Speaker 1: people wanting to get in. There's tons and tons of

1481
01:15:41,120 --> 01:15:44,200
Speaker 1: people wanting to move up from the job they have

1482
01:15:44,439 --> 01:15:48,280
Speaker 1: to you know, bigger jobs or higher profile jobs. And

1483
01:15:49,520 --> 01:15:54,479
Speaker 1: really you can sniff people that are out for you know,

1484
01:15:54,640 --> 01:15:58,000
Speaker 1: for themselves in a minute. And so I never wanted

1485
01:15:58,040 --> 01:15:59,920
Speaker 1: to be a personally, So I really do believe it.

1486
01:16:00,120 --> 01:16:03,439
Speaker 1: There there is no balance to me. It's you know,

1487
01:16:03,560 --> 01:16:06,960
Speaker 1: the only job right now is you know, working together

1488
01:16:07,120 --> 01:16:11,760
Speaker 1: with That'stefanski and arn Tellum and Malik Rose and and

1489
01:16:11,880 --> 01:16:16,559
Speaker 1: those coach Case and those guys to make this team good. Um.

1490
01:16:17,160 --> 01:16:20,040
Speaker 1: And if you do that, then the opportunities present themselves.

1491
01:16:20,120 --> 01:16:21,920
Speaker 1: But you know, to do it another way, it's just

1492
01:16:22,080 --> 01:16:24,960
Speaker 1: it's just really hard for me because it's just hard

1493
01:16:25,120 --> 01:16:26,880
Speaker 1: for me to imagine someone who would be all in

1494
01:16:27,040 --> 01:16:29,360
Speaker 1: when you're always kind of on the lookout for what's

1495
01:16:29,360 --> 01:16:31,599
Speaker 1: the next step of my career? All right, the last

1496
01:16:31,640 --> 01:16:35,160
Speaker 1: thing you gotta go and I gotta go, like a minute, Um,

1497
01:16:35,720 --> 01:16:38,479
Speaker 1: will we ever get back? Like the big guy like

1498
01:16:38,560 --> 01:16:41,120
Speaker 1: Andre Drummond obviously because he can run and finish and

1499
01:16:41,160 --> 01:16:44,719
Speaker 1: defend the rim, but the game has become so perim

1500
01:16:44,800 --> 01:16:47,760
Speaker 1: and oriented, Um, and you have to be able to

1501
01:16:47,800 --> 01:16:50,760
Speaker 1: switch and guard ball screens differently. Will it ever go back?

1502
01:16:51,000 --> 01:16:53,600
Speaker 1: Will Will we ever go back to where throwing it

1503
01:16:53,680 --> 01:16:56,160
Speaker 1: into the post is a big part of a half

1504
01:16:56,200 --> 01:17:01,439
Speaker 1: court offense. No, No, you will not. Um. The math

1505
01:17:01,560 --> 01:17:03,439
Speaker 1: just doesn't work when you when you look at the

1506
01:17:03,560 --> 01:17:06,960
Speaker 1: offense that's created by having a primary score as a

1507
01:17:07,000 --> 01:17:10,439
Speaker 1: low post player. No, I mean look like post ups, well,

1508
01:17:10,920 --> 01:17:12,680
Speaker 1: still your need him. I mean it's a part of

1509
01:17:12,880 --> 01:17:15,080
Speaker 1: being able to penetrate, you know, the paint and get

1510
01:17:15,120 --> 01:17:17,680
Speaker 1: the ball inside and create. But but the post up

1511
01:17:17,720 --> 01:17:22,400
Speaker 1: to me is now to create other shots. Right, It's amazing.

1512
01:17:22,520 --> 01:17:24,880
Speaker 1: Right now, now it's the post is to sell the

1513
01:17:25,000 --> 01:17:27,320
Speaker 1: defense so that you can create those those jump shots.

1514
01:17:27,360 --> 01:17:32,040
Speaker 1: It's really remarkable how it's how it's how it's changed. Pat,

1515
01:17:32,080 --> 01:17:35,080
Speaker 1: I can't tell you how appreciative I am of your time,

1516
01:17:35,200 --> 01:17:39,360
Speaker 1: especially during this moratorium. Um and dude, I look forward

1517
01:17:39,400 --> 01:17:41,519
Speaker 1: to seeing what's next for your for the Pistons in

1518
01:17:41,520 --> 01:17:45,280
Speaker 1: the future. Thanks man, Thanks do a player talking to

1519
01:17:45,280 --> 01:17:49,360
Speaker 1: you too, all right, So we'll wait on Kauai. I

1520
01:17:49,439 --> 01:17:52,880
Speaker 1: don't love what the seventies sixers are doing. I do

1521
01:17:53,040 --> 01:17:55,320
Speaker 1: love that Jimmy Butler is not there, and as much

1522
01:17:55,360 --> 01:17:58,160
Speaker 1: as I think the world of Josh Richardson and Al Horford,

1523
01:17:58,520 --> 01:17:59,840
Speaker 1: I don't know if it fits. Told me what they

1524
01:18:00,000 --> 01:18:02,519
Speaker 1: need a boy. Are they athletic, They get after you,

1525
01:18:02,560 --> 01:18:04,920
Speaker 1: they can defend multiple positions. My question still is can

1526
01:18:05,000 --> 01:18:07,439
Speaker 1: they make shots and ken Joel Abeeds stay healthy? Can

1527
01:18:07,479 --> 01:18:09,840
Speaker 1: Ben Simmons and make a jump shot. I think the

1528
01:18:09,880 --> 01:18:12,360
Speaker 1: Boston Celtics got worse in terms of talent. Kyrie's more

1529
01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:16,400
Speaker 1: talented than Kemba. Kemba is also older, but in terms

1530
01:18:16,439 --> 01:18:19,400
Speaker 1: of chemistry, I would think that Kemba has a chance

1531
01:18:19,479 --> 01:18:24,200
Speaker 1: to be better than uh than Kyrie was and kind

1532
01:18:24,240 --> 01:18:26,519
Speaker 1: of a three headed monster inside instead of one starter

1533
01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:29,200
Speaker 1: in now Horford a fascinating way for Danny Ainge and

1534
01:18:29,280 --> 01:18:32,920
Speaker 1: Brad Stevens to attack the problem. Wouldn't stun me if

1535
01:18:32,960 --> 01:18:35,840
Speaker 1: the Celtics and the Bucks were facing off deeper in

1536
01:18:35,880 --> 01:18:39,640
Speaker 1: the playoffs next year. Most people know I've never been

1537
01:18:39,680 --> 01:18:41,519
Speaker 1: a Dean Angel Russell guy. But the thing that's weird

1538
01:18:41,680 --> 01:18:45,000
Speaker 1: is are the Warriors gonna go to a lot of

1539
01:18:45,040 --> 01:18:47,439
Speaker 1: ball screens because he's the number one, number two ball

1540
01:18:47,520 --> 01:18:49,960
Speaker 1: screen guy in the NBA to look. I like what

1541
01:18:50,160 --> 01:18:53,600
Speaker 1: Utah has done. Um, the idea of them winning a

1542
01:18:53,680 --> 01:18:58,840
Speaker 1: championship seems a bit far fetched, but not crazy. We

1543
01:18:58,880 --> 01:19:01,519
Speaker 1: haven't talked at all about den They're basically got running

1544
01:19:01,520 --> 01:19:06,200
Speaker 1: it back from from last year, which was fun. Portland's

1545
01:19:06,680 --> 01:19:09,640
Speaker 1: looks like they got more athletic at the rim um

1546
01:19:09,960 --> 01:19:13,360
Speaker 1: and they're very you know, they're hoping. You know, there's

1547
01:19:13,400 --> 01:19:16,360
Speaker 1: no Golden State. Why not us? I know they got

1548
01:19:16,400 --> 01:19:18,400
Speaker 1: to the Western Conference finals, but part of it was

1549
01:19:18,479 --> 01:19:21,320
Speaker 1: the road to get there. I'm not convinced that Oklahoma

1550
01:19:21,360 --> 01:19:25,040
Speaker 1: City stands pat. But even if they do stand pat,

1551
01:19:25,320 --> 01:19:27,920
Speaker 1: I think Russell Westbrook will shoot better, Paul George healthier.

1552
01:19:29,720 --> 01:19:33,040
Speaker 1: They may be a sneaky team that could make a

1553
01:19:33,160 --> 01:19:36,479
Speaker 1: run next year because you still have two elite stars,

1554
01:19:37,120 --> 01:19:39,920
Speaker 1: which brings us to the Lakers, who we've all kind

1555
01:19:39,960 --> 01:19:42,680
Speaker 1: of handed some sort of mythical trophy to Lakers if

1556
01:19:42,680 --> 01:19:45,360
Speaker 1: they don't get Kawhi Leonard. And though Lebron James is

1557
01:19:45,400 --> 01:19:47,519
Speaker 1: great and Anthony Davis is great, Like, is there roster

1558
01:19:47,640 --> 01:19:51,160
Speaker 1: better than the Oklahoma City Thunder? No? Isn't it a

1559
01:19:51,240 --> 01:19:54,920
Speaker 1: guards game? Like? I don't know, I'm I'm fascinated by

1560
01:19:55,000 --> 01:19:59,320
Speaker 1: this thing, but most fascinated by what where Kawahi Leonard

1561
01:19:59,400 --> 01:20:03,479
Speaker 1: chooses to play next season. UM, we got lots of

1562
01:20:03,520 --> 01:20:06,639
Speaker 1: college basketball stuff coming up. We had some great interviews

1563
01:20:06,680 --> 01:20:09,919
Speaker 1: over the summer. Make sure you tell a friend you download,

1564
01:20:10,120 --> 01:20:13,400
Speaker 1: you subscribe, you rate. You'll hear all about some of

1565
01:20:13,479 --> 01:20:16,400
Speaker 1: your favorite athletes, some of your favorite broadcasters, some of

1566
01:20:16,479 --> 01:20:20,080
Speaker 1: the best stories in all of basketball. All right here,

1567
01:20:20,240 --> 01:20:22,439
Speaker 1: I thanks to you for listening to All Ball