WEBVTT - Questlove Supreme: Jonathan Shecter Part 1 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:03.080 Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:13.120 Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another episode of Quest Love Supreme. 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:15.000 Whatever I'm being built. 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:16.000 Man, it's a good day. 0:00:16.120 --> 0:00:17.360 It's Philly day. I'm excited. 0:00:17.840 --> 0:00:20.480 Whenever you're quiet, I feel like you're working on something monstrous. 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:21.640 What are you working on? 0:00:22.239 --> 0:00:24.000 I feel like you think that, because I have all 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:25.319 this gear behind me, that I do a lot of 0:00:25.320 --> 0:00:27.320 cool shit. But I don't. None of it works. 0:00:27.560 --> 0:00:30.680 It's just for looks, just looks good. It's just for show. Yeah. 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:37.000 No, there's no potential movie or or Broadway project coming up. 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:38.120 Not the moment. 0:00:38.360 --> 0:00:42.680 I'm too busy watching boy band scam documentaries about lou 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:43.400 what's his name? 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:43.880 That guy? 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:47.600 Anyway, That's what I've been doing today. There's a new documentary. Yeah, 0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:50.519 it's on Netflix. It's called Dirty Pop. That's pretty nice. 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:54.360 I recommend it. I'm in it. Say no more, Steve, whatever, bro, 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:58.440 Good morning. How's it going? It's am so I don't 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:01.840 know what's going. Steve doesn't do morning. You know that? 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:03.279 That sounds about right? All right? 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:06.920 That sounds about right? What can I say? As a 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:13.440 podcast host? As a writer of several books, Liner Note 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:20.520 obsessive author of many a nineteen twenty paragraph Instagram post. 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:25.520 That's understating it. 0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:31.480 Even as the world record holder for podcasts show intros 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:34.600 lengthy intros, it's an understatement to say that I have 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:38.360 an obsession with journalism, And of course the answer to 0:01:38.400 --> 0:01:39.120 that is duh. 0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:39.639 Of course. 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:42.240 You know, I'm probably one of the few casts to 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:45.959 sees the journalists of the person that brings the story 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:49.760 as just as important as the artist making the story. 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:51.760 In my childhood, they were. 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:56.760 Equally influential music periodicals that took up space just like 0:01:56.800 --> 0:01:59.960 the records did. So I just didn't grow up with records, 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:02.040 but you know, I grew up in a house with 0:02:02.440 --> 0:02:06.800 a goad jillion serious music periodicals. And then I think 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:11.200 in my senior year of high school something clicked in 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:14.720 kind of in the summer of eighty eight, I ran 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:19.520 across a magazine with Llo cool J on the front cover, 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:22.720 and not knowing what it was, sort of like a 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:25.000 last minute purchase. I purchased a bunch of records and 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:27.680 there's magazines at the at the register. 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:28.920 On my way home. 0:02:29.000 --> 0:02:33.680 Reading that periodical, I got admit that the writing style 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:35.320 was a little bit different than when I was used 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:38.960 to because there was no Internet in eighty eight, so 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:42.519 pretty much I had to rely on the words of 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:47.120 anyone working at those magazines like Ride On or Black 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:50.000 Beat or Word Up, you know, and there'd be an 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:54.080 occasional blurb in mainstream media, but it was always just 0:02:54.120 --> 0:02:57.080 one degree of you know, either run DMC's cover story 0:02:57.080 --> 0:02:59.480 for Rolling Stone, like see not all Rapid is Violent, 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:02.640 you know, that sort of thing. But for me, I 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:05.520 always saw that the hip hop coverage in the late 0:03:05.600 --> 0:03:10.919 eighties in very early nineties almost the equivalent of letting 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:17.160 a vegan judge a Texas barbecue contest. And the aforementioned 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:21.840 periodical comes along and starts treating the music that I 0:03:21.919 --> 0:03:25.399 love and that we all love is high art, and 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:29.600 I went from casual reader to obsessive in about twenty minutes. 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:33.320 And so the friendships I've cultivated, and the name of 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:38.640 that magazine, the business partners I've chosen because of that magazine, 0:03:38.880 --> 0:03:43.160 my art direction in life, the art I've created, even 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:47.920 though those actual participants of that magazine become lifelong friends 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:52.880 of mine. For me, the story of the Source magazine, 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:57.040 which you know, I still refer to as hip Hop's bible. 0:03:57.480 --> 0:03:59.360 You know, our guest today was. 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:06.720 Very, very instrumental in bringing that periodical, that religion, that culture, 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:09.280 that way of life, and all those writers and all 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:13.000 those artists and all those photographers in our world. And 0:04:14.080 --> 0:04:19.239 you know, it's rare to read any in depth interviews. 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:21.560 I've yet to hear his side of the story of 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:28.039 his stint there between eighty seven and eighty eight there 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:33.120 until nineteen ninety four, not to mention his other ventures 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:36.040 as well. And he's given us the honor to pick 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:43.360 his brain for this episode. John Check, finally you come 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:45.760 to Cout's Love Supreme. 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:49.080 It's my pleasure. It's my pleasure. Thank you, Thank you, Mair. 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:50.120 I really appreciate that. 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:52.520 Sorry, I hope I embarrass. 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:54.320 You, not at all. I'm a big fan of the podcast. 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:56.120 I was getting my rap ready. I guess we're not 0:04:56.160 --> 0:05:01.000 going to do that today. He got a wrap ready. 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:02.720 But I can let it. I can hold it till 0:05:02.720 --> 0:05:03.719 the future. It's all good. 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:07.039 Got you, got you okay, I see you're NS ten's 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:09.719 behind you. Where are you broadcasting from? 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:13.560 I am in my office in Las Vegas, where we 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:17.120 work with a lot of DJs, because one of my 0:05:17.160 --> 0:05:19.240 partners is a guy named Eddie Mack, who has a 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:22.320 DJ agency here, So we have this is kind of 0:05:22.360 --> 0:05:25.080 our office headquarters here in Las Vegas. It's very close 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:28.400 to the Las Vegas Strip. And yeah, there's a lot 0:05:28.839 --> 0:05:31.080 of DJs here, a lot of hip hop here, a 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:34.080 lot of vinyl here, all that good stuff it is. 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:36.159 Yeah, you're the first person to tell me. 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:40.120 I think maybe in I went to what was the 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:42.440 convention that used to come out there, the fashion convention, 0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:46.200 like Magic. Yeah, I went to the Magic Convention once 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:48.080 and you told me like, yeah, I'm living in Vegas, 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:49.560 and I'm like Vegas. 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:50.599 Who lives in Vegas? 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:54.200 You know, like where we only see Vegas as a 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:56.800 five cent slot machine and nothing else. 0:05:57.600 --> 0:05:59.680 Yeah, most people come and go in like three days 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:02.720 is the That's like kind of the typical experience, like 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:04.640 seventy two hours or like get me the hell out 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:08.000 of here. I ended up staying for like twenty five years. 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:11.839 But you were the one that told me that not 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:15.080 only Vegas is the future, but you you predicted even then. 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:20.160 I think this was maybe ninety eight, ninety nine, definitely 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:22.360 wasn't in two thousand and yet you told me, like yo, 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:25.600 like I predict that Vegas is going to be the 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:28.600 epicenter taken away from Los Angeles. 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:32.479 Like I guarantee you in the first something. I don't 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:35.600 know about all that, but you actually turned out to 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:36.279 be right man. 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:40.360 Like, practically my entire community of friends that I'm used 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:43.839 to running into in Los Angeles have moved to Vegas 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:45.599 and made Vegas their home. 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:46.640 Like what was it about? 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:49.960 Because you were like one of the earliest people saw 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:52.480 the potential in it. Like I'll say, for a lot 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:57.839 of us, Vegas just got cool. You know, even in 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:00.600 music terms, when I tell the band like Las Vegas, 0:07:00.600 --> 0:07:04.320 it's always like a cheesy term, like you know, like 0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:08.920 New York Studies jazz version of shaving a haircut. Yeah, 0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:12.240 you know, that's sort of But like, what was it 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:16.920 about Vegas that told you, especially twenty years before the fact, 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:20.080 that you know this, this will be the new spot? 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:24.160 You know, I found a lot of things about Vegas appealing. 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:29.480 What we do best out here is music, food, the 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:31.880 weather for those who can take the heat, and it's 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:35.360 actually a pretty good, easy lifestyle if you can, you know, 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:37.960 find your niche out here. But when it comes to music, 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:40.720 I mean, obviously that was sort of my you know, 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:43.119 one of my main reasons for being here. I saw 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:46.080 a lot of opportunity. I saw I got here right 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:49.240 as the sort of nightlife wave was beginning with a 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:51.920 lot of DJs, and I kind of jumped right in 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:54.320 and started like bringing a bunch of my friends out here, 0:07:54.920 --> 0:07:59.120 like djam Mark, Ronson Stretch, Armstrong, DJ Premiere, people like that. 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:02.360 But yeah, yeah, Vegas is you know, has come a 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:04.960 long way in the time I've been here, and now 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:07.960 I think it really is one of the best music 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:10.640 cities in the world for sure. I mean, there's so 0:08:10.880 --> 0:08:15.240 much here whatever you're into, whatever genre you're into, if 0:08:15.280 --> 0:08:16.800 you want to see live acts, if you want to 0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:19.200 see DJs, if you want to just have a nice 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:21.160 meal and listen to some good music, we got it 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:21.720 all covered. 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:26.120 The idea of what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas? 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:28.880 Is that truly a myth? 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:32.880 Or is the idea of that whole what happens in 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:34.199 Vegas stays in Vegas thing? 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:35.120 Is that real or not? 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:38.200 Everyone finds their own Vegas. That's a phrase I like 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:41.320 to say, meaning pretty much early on when you first visit, 0:08:41.720 --> 0:08:45.240 you have that all out wild experience where you you 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:48.680 know someone they go to extreme in one direction or another, 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:51.640 and then over time, whether you're a visitor or whether 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:56.920 you're a resident here, you begin to assimilate into a 0:08:57.040 --> 0:09:01.800 newer kind of environment and in the sense that nothing 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:05.960 really shocks you anymore, nothing really surprises you, and you 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:07.880 can kind of just take it all in stride. And 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:10.240 I think I hit that a while back, you know, 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:13.520 like and for people who are frequent visitors, the same 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:18.120 thing happens. You stop having those extreme moments and you 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:21.040 kind of just settle into like a good experience and 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:23.280 you kind of find your niche. You know, you find 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:25.480 the places you like to go, or you're here for 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:29.280 particular music events or something like that. So yeah, I 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:31.960 mean there's some truth to that, but I think that 0:09:32.080 --> 0:09:34.960 usually refers to people who are more beginners in Las 0:09:35.040 --> 0:09:38.560 Vegas and on you once you become more experience, you 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:39.520 take it all in stride. 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:43.240 Basically for your taste, Like what's your restaurant of choice. 0:09:43.760 --> 0:09:48.920 Well, I'm pescatarian leaning vegan vegetarian, so you know, I 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:52.560 look for those kind of spots. There's so much you know, 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:54.360 what I will say is that if I'm going to 0:09:54.360 --> 0:09:56.839 give one restaurant recommendation, I'm just going to recommend a 0:09:56.880 --> 0:10:00.439 whole block which is Spring Mountain Road, which which is 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:03.280 very close to the Strip. It's Vegas is Asia Town, 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:07.960 and there's literally hundreds of amazing restaurants there, and most 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:10.400 tourists never see it because it's not in a casino. 0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:11.040 You know. 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:13.600 The typical experience is most people will come to Vegas 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:19.000 and they'll check into one of the casinos. They'll literally 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:21.320 never leave that one building because every casino has like 0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:25.120 fifteen restaurants and three nightclubs and the pool and the 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:28.280 gym and everything else. So but what I recommend to 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:30.720 people is you go, like literally five minutes away from 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:34.520 the wind is a street called Spring Mountain Road, and 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:38.599 on that street is literally hundreds of amazing restaurants. And 0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:41.360 among those hundreds, there's about a couple dots in that 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:46.960 are world class Japanese, Thie, Vietnamese, Korean, et cetera. So 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:48.160 that's my recommendation. 0:10:48.320 --> 0:10:51.120 So you're saying that, you know, for us to stay 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:54.360 on the Strip is the equivalent of people visiting New 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:56.440 York and just staying in Times Square and really not. 0:10:57.120 --> 0:10:59.440 Yeah, it's like kind of like staying in Times Square, 0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:01.760 but to some extent, I mean listen, I'm not going 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:03.920 to say that I work with a lot of casinos. 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:06.079 I work with a lot of restaurants. I go to 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:08.040 a lot of restaurants. So you know, I'm not going 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:10.000 to say that there's there's nothing to be found there, 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:13.480 because there's a ton of amazing places. But you know, 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:18.040 over time, most locals tend to avoid the Strip unless 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:21.000 absolutely necessary. That's kind of the process that every local 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:24.760 goes through, is eventually weaning yourself away from the Strip 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:28.160 and towards like the regular Las Vegas city, which is, 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:31.040 you know, pretty significant city. But yeah, I mean, obviously 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:33.080 I get why most people come here and they just 0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:35.520 kind of check into one of these places and stay 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:37.400 there because it's that's what you're you know, that's what 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:40.000 they expect you to do. And it's nothing wrong with that, right, 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:42.280 But as time goes on, you start to see sort 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:44.000 of a wider a wider frame. 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:48.080 All right, next time, I'm you're my tour guide. 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:49.120 So let me take you off the strip. I'd be 0:11:49.160 --> 0:11:50.599 happy to do it, man, happy to do it. 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:54.559 Okay, awesome, all right, So I want to get into 0:11:54.920 --> 0:12:00.320 your story because you know, I've heard practically anyone that 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:05.960 is cross paths of that institution known as The Source magazine. 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:09.360 I've spoken to in great detail, but I've never ever 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:14.840 really picked your brain just about the whole modus operandi 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:16.000 of the place and whatnot. 0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:17.880 So let it be known that we've known each other 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:20.840 for quite a long time, but we've actually, yeah, we've 0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:22.679 never really had like a deep talk about it, which 0:12:22.720 --> 0:12:24.600 is great. Exactly do it here, this is a time 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:25.760 to do. Yeah. 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:28.080 Well for starters, you and I have something in common. 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:31.000 We're both from the city of Philadelphia, so oh yeah, 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:35.600 absolutely talk to me about your beginnings before you start 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:38.599 the magazine, Like what was your life basically before in 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:39.720 the first half of the eighties. 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:44.160 Okay, So I grew up in Center City Philadelphia, which 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:47.200 is you know, literally like where the downtown part of 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:51.160 Philia is for those who don't know. And I went 0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:53.520 to school a place called Friends Select, which is a 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:57.120 Quaker school on seventeenth in the Parkway. I was there 0:12:57.120 --> 0:13:00.040 in my whole childhood, from kindergarten through twelfth grade. So 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:03.319 every single day in my life, yes, I would, I would. 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:06.520 I would walk you know, through the city past Chestnut 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:11.360 Market JFK and then to the school, you know. Being 0:13:11.400 --> 0:13:14.880 a young kid who was drawn to music at a 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:17.680 very young age. You know, I used to listen to 0:13:17.679 --> 0:13:21.000 the radio all the stations, from the pop stations, to 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:24.439 the rock stations, to the to the urban slash black 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:28.800 music stations, and I would walk through the city and 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:30.880 you just, you know, you can't help, especially in the 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:33.760 eighties in Philly, you can't help but soak up culture, 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:39.040 you know, just walking around. I'm talking about fashion, music, 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:42.160 you know, just just sort of energy. I mean, we 0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:44.480 talk about music. I mean there I was in the 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:46.800 city that was creating all this music. I didn't even 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:51.080 realize what was happening around me. In other words, like 0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:54.960 some of my earliest memories about music are like hearing 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:58.640 like wake Up Everybody in like a pizza place in 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:05.080 like nineteen seventies, Evan, I guess, And you know, I 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:07.800 didn't realize it was made in Philly. I had no idea, 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:10.920 but I just knew that it was something. You know, 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:13.240 when you hear a song like that with that much 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:16.880 you know, emotional depth, it kind of rewires your brain 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:20.080 a little bit. I think, you know, not just that song, 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:22.480 all the Philly soul that was that was around us. 0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:26.000 So basically I was drawn to music at a young age. 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:29.880 But it wasn't until I was about in eleventh grade 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:33.640 at friend Select that I decided to do something about it. 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:36.560 I had been spending a lot of time prior to 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:40.440 that listening to records. I was really into disco, you know, 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:44.360 Disco was kind of my first love of music. First 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:48.560 record I ever bought was a chic Yaoza Yasa Yasa 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:51.400 dance Dance Dance fun fact. 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:56.040 Yes, according to Nile Rogers, Yes, the voice of ya 0:14:56.520 --> 0:15:01.640 ya Yaza is Luther Vandros Wow. 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:05.080 I did not know that. That's awesome fun fact. 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:06.040 Yes, I love it. 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:08.720 I remember I bought the forty five on Atlantic Records. 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:11.120 It was like a red label and I would listen 0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:14.560 to it constantly. I will confess that I loved all disco, 0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:18.160 including the Beg's, the Village People, everything else. You know, 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:21.200 we all did, We all did. Yeah, I mean, it 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:25.120 was just great music. And the thing is for me though, 0:15:25.200 --> 0:15:28.480 I also loved rock, so like you know, back when 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:30.400 they used to be disco versus rock, there was a 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:33.400 huge conflict in like the late seventies where you had 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:35.520 to pick a side and I could never pick a side. 0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:37.720 It was weird, like there was like half the kids 0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:41.640 were like, you know, Pink, Floyd, led Zeppelin, Queen. You know, 0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:44.520 some of those groups ended up doing disco records too. 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:47.800 But you know, but basically there was this big conflict. 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:50.560 I could never pick aside. I always liked both, and 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:52.680 I just like wrote it out that way. But then 0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:55.560 when I got to eleventh grade, I was so into 0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:58.160 hip hop. At that point, it's like nineteen eighty four 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:04.240 and you know, Run, DMC, the Fat Boys, Houdini, LLL 0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:08.160 cool J, Curtis Blow. You know. I was loved all 0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:12.520 those groups, and I decided that I wanted to work 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:17.640 in radio, so I forced my way into the building 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:20.200 at Power ninety nine FM WUSL. 0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:22.200 He used to work for Dave what's his name? At 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:22.960 Power ninety. 0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:26.680 Nine, there was a yeah, that was the I think 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:29.560 he was the PD yeah when when I was. But 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:32.080 but when I walked in, it was a there was 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:35.560 a newly hired MD and his name was Tony Gray, 0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:37.400 and he called his on air name, and this is 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:40.760 kind of silly now, his on air name was Mike Jackson. 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:43.960 Mike Jackson, remember Mike Jackson, the man. 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:45.680 Who invented the Power nine at nine. 0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:49.960 That's correct, That is correct, Mike Jackson. So Mike Jackson, 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:54.320 he had a hold like that's an alias. Yeah, Like 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:56.480 can you imagine picking that as your alias? I mean, 0:16:56.480 --> 0:16:58.600 it kind of doesn't make sense, but that's what he did. 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:00.119 Smart, Okay. 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:01.920 So I walked in. It was kind of like one 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:05.960 of those remember in Wayne's World, when what's the guy's name, 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:08.760 like handsome George or something like that, a gorgeous George 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:10.919 and they walk in and there it's he has this 0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:12.960 huge voice and they walk in. There's like a very 0:17:13.040 --> 0:17:14.920 kind of little guy and he doesn't like it looks 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:17.600 kind of nerdy. It was very similar to that. It 0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:21.639 was very similar. He had this looked like yo, yeah, 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:24.359 he had this like very powerful like voice. He was 0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:26.800 doing the Evening Drive, so he was on from I 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:28.119 think like six to ten. 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:30.920 Mike on the Power nine at nine, Oh my. 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:32.320 God, exactly exactly. 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:34.439 So wow. 0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:37.119 Yeah, And so he was like, you know, he was 0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:39.399 kind of like a hero of mine. But he had 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:42.119 just started, like I think a few months before I 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:44.600 got there, and it just so happened when I walked 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:47.119 in and I wanted to be an intern and he was. 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:50.119 He saw me, and he was kind of like a 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:53.800 slim kind of you know, smaller dude. He had hair 0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:57.160 almost like a a perm, but it was like a 0:17:57.160 --> 0:18:00.359 gumby perm if you can imagine those two things going together. 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:04.440 And anyway, he was very friendly to me at a 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:06.919 very I was. I was totally nervous and and like 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:09.159 he took me in and he started talking to me, 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:12.159 and you know, basically we hit it off like that 0:18:12.240 --> 0:18:15.280 first night and I started working for him like literally immediately. 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:18.760 And back then it was like the radio station was, uh, 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:23.280 you know they use carts which looked like eight track tapes. Yes, yes, 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:25.320 and you would like put that. So the first job 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:27.320 was there was like a pile of carts like on 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:28.879 the floor with like two hundred of them, and I 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:31.399 had to like sort through them and organize them and 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:32.080 stuff like that. 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:34.840 Can you explain something to me, because okay, so I 0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:37.440 am from the era. I mean I've seen every era 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:41.160 of radio, but first doing the radio I do remember 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:46.000 those a track carts like one. What was the purpose 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:48.200 of it to like who would do those edits? 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:48.720 Like? 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:51.760 Was the purpose to store as much music as you 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:53.160 can on that particular cart? 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:55.320 Or like the purpose? 0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:58.359 There was a combination when I was there they were 0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:02.080 still playing records for the most part, but some songs 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:04.400 when they made into heavy rotation would be on a cart. 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:07.720 I think the main purpose of it. Also, all ads 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:11.720 and all drops, all announcements, all bumpers, all that kind 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:13.439 of stuff was on the cart. But I believe the 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:16.199 reason they used them was because when it finished, it 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:19.479 would end up right on cue, so it automatically, like 0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:21.840 you hit play, it would play whatever was on there, 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:23.640 and then it would stop and it would be immediately 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:25.800 cued up again. So I think it was just the 0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:29.000 convenience of having you pop it in and you know 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:31.960 it's going to be right on cue, I believe. 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:34.200 So you don't need to look for the spot where right. 0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:37.240 Yeah, so they're like, we have to play a song, 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:38.760 so you just hit play and you know, it's like 0:19:38.840 --> 0:19:42.640 it's immediately it's always on cue. So I'm pretty sure 0:19:42.680 --> 0:19:44.320 that was the reason that they used them, or that 0:19:44.400 --> 0:19:47.240 was the purpose of the invention. But that was also 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:49.320 a time and then we can talk about this maybe 0:19:49.359 --> 0:19:52.040 as we get into it, but that was when DJs 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:55.199 were doing edits on reel to reel, so I actually 0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:59.200 witnessed some of the most amazing artistry you've ever imagined 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:03.280 with a razor blade and like a real to real tape. 0:20:03.520 --> 0:20:05.960 With those days, You're gonna ask you something. 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:11.440 Yes, yes, yes, Do you know who Yaman super mixes? 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:14.720 Oh man, I'm so glad you said that name. He 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:18.280 was the king of the tape edit. He was our 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:22.040 Latin rascals, Latin rascals, he was Latin rascals. 0:20:21.960 --> 0:20:23.679 Oh my god. 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:26.040 And I witnessed him making edits. I saw him in 0:20:26.080 --> 0:20:30.120 person making edits and I saw exactly and he's totally forgotten. 0:20:30.160 --> 0:20:34.359 Nobody remembers he was and where is he? As I recall, 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:38.199 he was like an Arabic gentleman, kind of coming up 0:20:38.200 --> 0:20:41.520 in the same exact style as Latin rascals in New 0:20:41.560 --> 0:20:45.280 York City, and he would make these phenomenal I mean 0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:48.880 like I would walk into that room and there would 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:52.000 be like all the segments of tape would be hanging 0:20:52.040 --> 0:20:55.280 on the wall because he would be he would remember like, oh, yeah, 0:20:55.280 --> 0:20:57.560 this is the chorus over here, this is the bridge, 0:20:58.080 --> 0:21:00.800 this is the whatever, you know, and you know, he 0:21:00.840 --> 0:21:02.639 would go in with that blade and there would be 0:21:02.680 --> 0:21:04.640 like that little piece of metal that you would put 0:21:04.640 --> 0:21:07.040 the tape in and you'd slice and then you'd like 0:21:07.080 --> 0:21:09.920 put like a white piece of like masking tape like together, right, 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:12.600 uh huh and uh, And the tape would go all 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:14.240 the way through the tape machine and then all the 0:21:14.240 --> 0:21:16.760 way back around the pole and back again so that 0:21:16.840 --> 0:21:19.439 you could get the right length for the tape, you know. 0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:22.239 So yeah, and then as you watch it go by, 0:21:22.320 --> 0:21:25.159 you'd see all the little white strips, like all the edits, 0:21:25.280 --> 0:21:27.680 you know, and it was amazing. Yeah, that was like 0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:32.640 a crazy artistry that I totally forgotten art form. 0:21:31.720 --> 0:21:37.159 Yeah, I'm in supermix. Was was like pro tools before 0:21:37.240 --> 0:21:41.119 pro tools. Like he would do a mix, then I'd 0:21:41.160 --> 0:21:44.560 get on, like we would have like three h JBC 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:47.439 ghetto blasters at the crib, and I would try to 0:21:47.480 --> 0:21:50.679 emulate whatever I heard him doing because that's how I 0:21:50.680 --> 0:21:52.760 thought people made remixes and shit. 0:21:52.920 --> 0:21:55.520 So I mean with the set you would use, you'd 0:21:55.520 --> 0:21:57.720 make a pause tape to try to make it like 0:21:57.720 --> 0:21:58.280 like an edit. 0:21:58.359 --> 0:22:01.520 Yes, we all did that, do anything to hear any 0:22:01.560 --> 0:22:02.760 of that stuff again, Man. 0:22:04.560 --> 0:22:06.920 He was absolutely brilliant. There was also a Philly DJ 0:22:07.040 --> 0:22:10.880 named Jeff Mills. Yeah, just saying Jeff Mill, Jeff Mills 0:22:10.920 --> 0:22:21.920 moves moves, Yes, exactly so that's the world I walked 0:22:21.920 --> 0:22:23.920 into when I was just like, you know, a high 0:22:23.960 --> 0:22:26.840 school kid, and it was sort of the aftermath of 0:22:26.880 --> 0:22:30.600 when Howard ninety nine had become a black station already, 0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:32.600 but they still had a lot of remnants of sort 0:22:32.600 --> 0:22:36.359 of their r yeah, like kind of like dance music, 0:22:36.440 --> 0:22:41.920 you know those people exactly exactly, Yes, Jeff Jeff Wyatt 0:22:41.960 --> 0:22:44.919 is another name that was back then. But anyway, so 0:22:45.080 --> 0:22:47.920 Tony Gray aka Mike Jackson and we hit it off 0:22:48.080 --> 0:22:51.520 and and I started working for him. And I was 0:22:51.560 --> 0:22:54.399 also very close friends with Jojo Davis, who was the 0:22:54.520 --> 0:22:58.920 nighttime night Flight ninety nine. It was the overnight kind 0:22:58.960 --> 0:23:02.080 of the Philly version of the quiet Well there was 0:23:02.119 --> 0:23:04.320 a quiet storm. The way you would work is Mike 0:23:04.400 --> 0:23:06.720 Jackson would play from six to ten, then there was 0:23:06.760 --> 0:23:09.560 a quiet storm and then night Flight ninety nine will 0:23:09.560 --> 0:23:11.399 come on, and that was like the overnight shift. 0:23:11.760 --> 0:23:12.000 Yeah. 0:23:12.000 --> 0:23:16.199 And Jojo was actually a relative of Miles Davis. I 0:23:16.200 --> 0:23:19.000 think it was his nephew. I never knew that he 0:23:19.200 --> 0:23:21.400 was the one that, you know, it was like when 0:23:21.400 --> 0:23:24.240 I was with Tony Gray, he was he was a 0:23:24.359 --> 0:23:28.359 very serious dude. He was a hard working, kind of 0:23:28.680 --> 0:23:31.359 not partying type guy. You know, he would show up 0:23:31.400 --> 0:23:34.040 for work, he carried about the business. He was straight laced. 0:23:34.960 --> 0:23:38.000 Then I would leave for the Quiet Storm because that 0:23:38.040 --> 0:23:40.320 was actually no DJ. It was just like they were 0:23:40.359 --> 0:23:43.040 just playing like records and that would be you'd hear 0:23:43.160 --> 0:23:46.480 like you know, like Shirley Murdoch and stuff like that, 0:23:46.640 --> 0:23:47.160 and then. 0:23:47.800 --> 0:23:50.480 Well there's like pre taped or like done live. 0:23:51.000 --> 0:23:52.959 I think there was someone in the studio playing records, 0:23:52.960 --> 0:23:54.480 but they had a list. I think they had like 0:23:54.520 --> 0:23:57.560 a playlist they had to follow, and they had the 0:23:57.600 --> 0:24:00.880 great sound effects with like the rainstorm if you remember it, 0:24:01.240 --> 0:24:02.720 and it was it would put you in the mood. 0:24:03.840 --> 0:24:06.240 But then I would come back. So I would leave 0:24:06.240 --> 0:24:08.720 with Tony Gray and he would leave and I would 0:24:08.800 --> 0:24:11.040 leave and go to a friend's house. And then midnight 0:24:11.080 --> 0:24:13.080 I would come back to the station and it was 0:24:13.160 --> 0:24:15.880 Jojo Davis and that was when the party was on. 0:24:16.440 --> 0:24:18.480 So we would like hang out and that was where 0:24:18.520 --> 0:24:20.920 we could get loose. And you know, that was where 0:24:20.960 --> 0:24:23.720 I met all its people and talked about music and 0:24:23.960 --> 0:24:25.080 the whole nine yards. 0:24:25.320 --> 0:24:29.840 Wow man, So how influential as the intern, like even 0:24:29.920 --> 0:24:32.360 where I work now at thirty or Rock, It's the 0:24:32.359 --> 0:24:38.159 interns here that keep me hip to what's next, you 0:24:38.200 --> 0:24:38.680 know what I mean. 0:24:39.240 --> 0:24:39.880 Like, I'm in my. 0:24:39.840 --> 0:24:43.520 Fifties, but my interns here in the twenties. They're the 0:24:43.520 --> 0:24:46.480 first ones to yo question you up on this, yup 0:24:46.520 --> 0:24:48.760 on this, yump on this. So there's always the intern 0:24:48.840 --> 0:24:53.480 that knows what tomorrow is. Were you that voice for them. 0:24:53.760 --> 0:24:55.840 To some extent? I think I was because I was 0:24:56.040 --> 0:24:59.240 very into hip hop. So at that moment in time, 0:24:59.359 --> 0:25:03.800 hip hop not really become the main programming. It was 0:25:03.840 --> 0:25:06.920 still the programming was great. I mean, listen, it was 0:25:06.960 --> 0:25:09.119 the eighties. It was the best era of music I 0:25:09.119 --> 0:25:11.720 think of all time. But what was great about the 0:25:11.760 --> 0:25:14.400 programming was that it was very diverse and very funky 0:25:14.480 --> 0:25:18.280 and very you know, and I loved it. But there 0:25:18.320 --> 0:25:21.320 wasn't enough hip hop for my taste. So I was 0:25:21.359 --> 0:25:24.280 in there pushing. I was in there pushing low key 0:25:25.200 --> 0:25:26.320 on the hip hop side. 0:25:26.480 --> 0:25:27.280 This is what happened. 0:25:27.320 --> 0:25:29.560 So the Spring of eighty five, my mother's side of 0:25:29.600 --> 0:25:33.919 the family is from California. Spring of eighty five, we 0:25:34.160 --> 0:25:38.000 do our pilgrimage to Los Angeles and we'll stay out 0:25:38.000 --> 0:25:40.480 there for like three to four weeks, so say like 0:25:40.520 --> 0:25:42.600 a month or so, and. 0:25:43.280 --> 0:25:45.400 You know, it's very different. 0:25:46.119 --> 0:25:50.200 Eighty five Los Angeles was night and Day from eighty 0:25:50.240 --> 0:25:54.760 five Philadelphia and Greg Mack and Katie A. 0:25:54.840 --> 0:25:55.960 Why was you know? 0:25:56.119 --> 0:25:59.400 AM was the first twenty four hour hip hop radio stage. 0:25:59.520 --> 0:26:02.560 They're playing a lot of their Malaco records, like a 0:26:02.560 --> 0:26:06.040 lot of the West Coast stuff like Rodney what's his name? 0:26:06.359 --> 0:26:09.440 California and those out of Party like basically like post 0:26:09.480 --> 0:26:13.480 Electro that sort of stuff, and. 0:26:13.080 --> 0:26:15.080 La Dream Team stuff like yeah, all that. 0:26:15.040 --> 0:26:16.800 Stuff, Doctor Dre shit. 0:26:17.359 --> 0:26:24.440 And so that's the summer of Toddy T's batter Ram, right, Yeah, 0:26:24.480 --> 0:26:28.320 And they're playing it constantly, constantly, playing it constant, constantly. 0:26:28.920 --> 0:26:32.520 So in August when we get back to Philadelphia and 0:26:32.560 --> 0:26:35.320 I get on the block where all my friends are 0:26:36.600 --> 0:26:41.280 and we're sort of just trade and comparing notes. You know, 0:26:41.480 --> 0:26:44.920 something happened in the summer of eighty five and which 0:26:45.000 --> 0:26:51.879 suddenly hip hop was allowed in the evening And I 0:26:51.920 --> 0:26:53.720 don't know what a lot of do you know, how 0:26:53.960 --> 0:26:58.840 how stupid you one has to feel when everyone's like, 0:26:59.000 --> 0:27:00.760 what do you mean you don't know Lotty Dotty in 0:27:00.800 --> 0:27:03.880 the show, and I'm like, no, yo, it's about batter Ram. 0:27:03.960 --> 0:27:04.120 Now. 0:27:04.160 --> 0:27:06.680 The way that La people were acting to Totty T's 0:27:06.760 --> 0:27:09.280 batter ram I put it on for them and they 0:27:09.359 --> 0:27:11.520 looked at me like like this was the first time 0:27:11.560 --> 0:27:14.439 I witnessed like a cultural region. 0:27:14.880 --> 0:27:16.800 Regional difference is regional difference. 0:27:17.160 --> 0:27:21.440 And I played my song first and they weren't impressed 0:27:21.480 --> 0:27:25.879 at all, and then they played me Lotty Dotty and 0:27:26.080 --> 0:27:27.800 you know they're taping off the radio. So this is 0:27:27.800 --> 0:27:30.520 how I know what a Power nine at nine is. 0:27:30.560 --> 0:27:32.800 You know, Mike Jackson is number one song is Lottie Dotty. 0:27:32.840 --> 0:27:35.760 But you remember when the show and Lottie Dotty were 0:27:35.800 --> 0:27:38.560 like number one for like alls nine months. 0:27:38.960 --> 0:27:42.159 So how does a record like that crack. 0:27:42.000 --> 0:27:45.600 The mainstream in a way that pre Spring of eighty five, 0:27:45.880 --> 0:27:49.119 I'm only used to, you know, Lady b Show on 0:27:49.320 --> 0:27:53.160 Sunday for three hours and nothing else. Maybe Drexel will 0:27:53.160 --> 0:27:56.119 have like an hour of it. But talk to me 0:27:56.160 --> 0:27:58.560 about like the inside of the machine, like how are 0:27:58.600 --> 0:28:02.160 they penetrate that unpenetrable system. 0:28:02.560 --> 0:28:05.040 So you know you're right on the time, because that 0:28:05.119 --> 0:28:07.760 was literally when I was getting involved there eighty five, 0:28:08.520 --> 0:28:11.160 and I as time went on, I actually took over 0:28:11.280 --> 0:28:14.080 that Power nine and nine. I was the person that 0:28:14.359 --> 0:28:17.760 was compiling that that was supposed to be based on requests, 0:28:17.840 --> 0:28:20.480 so there was kind of like a there was a 0:28:20.640 --> 0:28:22.439 there's a balance there, so that I ask. 0:28:22.359 --> 0:28:24.240 You the discobobblated, boobulated question. 0:28:24.320 --> 0:28:28.480 Next we'll talk about mc breeze. No problem, that's my buddy, okay. 0:28:28.720 --> 0:28:31.240 But yeah, so I would make I would make a charge, 0:28:31.240 --> 0:28:33.680 and you know, in the beginning, they didn't really trust 0:28:33.680 --> 0:28:35.080 me to do it, but after I'd been there for 0:28:35.240 --> 0:28:37.280 you know, a number of months, they saw that I 0:28:37.320 --> 0:28:38.800 kind of knew what I was doing, so they would 0:28:38.840 --> 0:28:42.120 let me literally make the whole top nine. And it 0:28:42.240 --> 0:28:45.400 was always it was kind of like a little bit 0:28:45.440 --> 0:28:48.680 of science, a little bit of creativity kind of mixed together, 0:28:48.760 --> 0:28:50.720 you know, like it would be. The science part is 0:28:51.200 --> 0:28:54.600 they did have requests, and they did have a system 0:28:54.720 --> 0:28:57.920 for logging these requests, so you did see what was 0:28:57.960 --> 0:29:00.520 like actually the most requested. But as you know, those 0:29:00.600 --> 0:29:04.160 kind of move, it's kind of a backwards looking stat 0:29:04.440 --> 0:29:07.280 you know, like requests kind of can be almost like 0:29:07.320 --> 0:29:09.440 what's already a hit usually, you know what I mean. 0:29:09.520 --> 0:29:11.960 And so I had to also kind of bring in 0:29:12.240 --> 0:29:15.000 a little bit of the newness. And I'm not saying 0:29:15.000 --> 0:29:17.480 it was all me. There was a lot of forces 0:29:17.480 --> 0:29:20.880 in play. The biggest force is just the you know, 0:29:20.960 --> 0:29:23.640 it was a combination of run DMC breaking down those 0:29:23.680 --> 0:29:26.120 big barriers. You know, I think they were the biggest 0:29:26.720 --> 0:29:29.520 reason why hip hop broke through. But there was a 0:29:29.520 --> 0:29:32.240 lot of other records, you know, force M d's, I mean, 0:29:32.440 --> 0:29:36.160 like you know, Dougie Fresh, and so it was like, yeah, 0:29:36.200 --> 0:29:39.880 it was just kind of you know, it just slowly happened, 0:29:39.880 --> 0:29:41.880 and so they would at some point along the line. 0:29:41.920 --> 0:29:45.400 But you're dead on correct in that the regular station 0:29:45.600 --> 0:29:48.480 rotation would not include these records. But during the Power 0:29:48.560 --> 0:29:50.880 nine at nine, we were allowed to put in what 0:29:50.960 --> 0:29:53.360 the streets really wanted to hear. And then of course 0:29:53.400 --> 0:29:56.320 on Sundays with Lady B that was an all out 0:29:56.360 --> 0:29:58.480 you know, that was like the center of hip hop 0:29:58.480 --> 0:30:01.360 and Philly basically, you know, that was most important show. 0:30:01.600 --> 0:30:04.280 But the big songs would break through and they would 0:30:04.320 --> 0:30:06.200 end up hanging around on the chart, on that Power 0:30:06.280 --> 0:30:08.520 nine chart for a long time. And you know, one 0:30:08.520 --> 0:30:10.480 of the biggest gotta be deaf for me. What I 0:30:10.480 --> 0:30:12.160 think is you could argue one of the greatest twelve 0:30:12.200 --> 0:30:15.080 and singles of all time is the show in Loddie Dottie. 0:30:15.160 --> 0:30:17.760 I mean that's like, you know, you can't beat that. 0:30:18.280 --> 0:30:22.200 You know, it became a religion, and it did. It 0:30:22.320 --> 0:30:24.560 was huge in Philly, huge as big as can be. 0:30:25.120 --> 0:30:26.520 But you know what else was huge in Philly, And 0:30:26.520 --> 0:30:28.280 I'm curious to hear if you see, if you remember 0:30:28.920 --> 0:30:34.120 shout by Tears for Fears was massive in like like, 0:30:36.120 --> 0:30:38.320 oh the Craig g I was that came up the 0:30:38.400 --> 0:30:40.800 other day. I was actually there the day that one 0:30:40.800 --> 0:30:43.320 of the good men showed up from Pop Art Records 0:30:43.320 --> 0:30:46.040 and dropped off that Craigg shout record. I remember, actually 0:30:46.080 --> 0:30:48.560 I was in the studios. Yeah it was. 0:30:49.160 --> 0:30:50.600 You got pop art stories. 0:30:50.840 --> 0:30:54.840 I got pop Art stories stories, yo. Yeah, I forget 0:30:54.880 --> 0:30:55.280 the source. 0:30:55.320 --> 0:30:58.160 We can just talk about the first two years at 0:30:58.480 --> 0:30:59.200 ninety nine. 0:31:00.080 --> 0:31:02.120 Yeah, I'm sorry, I mean interrupt, but I was just 0:31:02.120 --> 0:31:03.440 going to say. The point I do want to make 0:31:03.440 --> 0:31:06.040 though about those days was that and this is something 0:31:06.040 --> 0:31:08.960 that has followed me in my whole life. When the 0:31:09.040 --> 0:31:12.920 station brass was deciding like what to program, there was 0:31:12.960 --> 0:31:18.480 this very open attitude. Anything funky was okay. So that 0:31:18.600 --> 0:31:20.160 was a time when you could turn on a black 0:31:20.280 --> 0:31:24.160 radio station. Here Tears for Fears. You could hear the 0:31:24.160 --> 0:31:27.520 Tom Tom Club and Talking Heads. You could hear Holland 0:31:27.520 --> 0:31:31.640 Oates and many other examples of stuff like that, which 0:31:32.600 --> 0:31:36.280 that has always been my kind of like DNA guiding 0:31:36.280 --> 0:31:40.400 philosophy is like, if it's funky, it doesn't matter who's 0:31:40.440 --> 0:31:44.360 making it. And somewhere along the lines it got more segregated, 0:31:44.400 --> 0:31:47.520 I think, like music, you know, but back then the eighties, 0:31:47.640 --> 0:31:50.760 you know, those records were as big as like you know, 0:31:51.360 --> 0:31:54.560 Alexander O'Neill or Shorell or something like that. You know, 0:31:54.640 --> 0:31:55.920 they were just side by side. 0:31:56.240 --> 0:32:01.760 Fun fact, the first time I heard is weird trivia moment, 0:32:02.080 --> 0:32:04.760 the first time I heard shout on Power ninety nine. 0:32:06.000 --> 0:32:11.160 I lived on Osage Avenue. Wow, I lived on fifty 0:32:11.240 --> 0:32:17.640 second in Osage Avenue. Okay, And every Philadelphia my age 0:32:17.840 --> 0:32:22.000 knows what happens or May thirteenth, nineteen eighty five on. 0:32:22.160 --> 0:32:24.880 Osage Avenue of course the bombings. 0:32:25.200 --> 0:32:28.520 So the thing was because this drama has been brewing 0:32:29.520 --> 0:32:32.640 all week, you know. Jack Jones was like, it's almost 0:32:32.680 --> 0:32:34.720 like being live at Vietnam, like you'd be behind the 0:32:35.400 --> 0:32:39.920 cars like reporting, and it seemed contained. I mean, back 0:32:39.960 --> 0:32:43.000 then it was just about like, okay, there's gun exchange 0:32:43.040 --> 0:32:47.800 between the move organization and the police, so we may. 0:32:47.760 --> 0:32:51.360 Drop the bomb on top of the house. You know. 0:32:51.440 --> 0:32:53.600 For like three hours, it seemed like it was contained, 0:32:54.840 --> 0:32:57.840 but then when it spread to another block, then we 0:32:57.840 --> 0:33:00.800 started getting concerned, like, okay, well we live here and 0:33:00.880 --> 0:33:03.320 this scene seems to be spreading, Like how late will 0:33:03.320 --> 0:33:06.880 it be until it comes to our block? And there 0:33:06.920 --> 0:33:10.600 was a moment where our block captain around like eleven 0:33:10.680 --> 0:33:16.400 PM kind of just gave the warning like, look, you know, 0:33:16.480 --> 0:33:18.720 I'm in contact with the other block captains and whatnot. 0:33:19.280 --> 0:33:20.320 If they don't contain that. 0:33:20.400 --> 0:33:24.760 Fire, maybe at three four in the morning, we might 0:33:24.800 --> 0:33:27.680 have to vacate our cribs. So it was almost like 0:33:27.720 --> 0:33:32.600 a pack a pack, what's important that sort of thing. 0:33:33.280 --> 0:33:35.160 And I remember having the. 0:33:35.200 --> 0:33:37.720 Radio on while we were packing, like in case we 0:33:37.720 --> 0:33:40.720 had to go to my Grandmam's house or whatever, and I. 0:33:40.680 --> 0:33:41.360 Looked at the radio. 0:33:41.400 --> 0:33:43.600 I was like, wait, what the hell's Tears Fears doing 0:33:43.680 --> 0:33:45.320 on Power ninety nine, Like it. 0:33:45.200 --> 0:33:48.640 Was just you remember hearing that song during the move crisis, 0:33:48.640 --> 0:33:51.520 you're saying, right, yeah, yeah, I remember. Of course that 0:33:51.720 --> 0:33:53.800 was a major moment for Philly. We were all like 0:33:53.880 --> 0:33:55.920 you know, it was on the it was live, it 0:33:55.960 --> 0:33:58.800 was covered live. You know there's like live shots. Yeah, 0:33:58.800 --> 0:34:00.520 that was crazy. That was a moment. 0:34:01.040 --> 0:34:04.560 So what was your Philly nightlife experience? 0:34:04.640 --> 0:34:08.880 Like, like, like, were you ever an attendee of about 0:34:08.880 --> 0:34:10.280 to call it the spaghetti Warehouse? 0:34:10.800 --> 0:34:11.520 After Midnight? 0:34:12.160 --> 0:34:15.640 The mid They used to call it the mid h. Yeah, 0:34:15.760 --> 0:34:19.200 the mid was like the abbreviation. I was too young 0:34:19.280 --> 0:34:22.960 to get into after Midnight, but I would. I'm now 0:34:23.000 --> 0:34:24.880 I'm too old for almost everything, but back then I 0:34:24.920 --> 0:34:26.840 was too young to get into after Midnight. But I 0:34:26.880 --> 0:34:30.600 remember hanging outside and I met all the people involved, 0:34:31.120 --> 0:34:33.160 and there was actually a white guy that was like 0:34:33.200 --> 0:34:36.279 I think running after Midnight. I can't remember his name. 0:34:36.880 --> 0:34:40.839 And if you remember, there was this the most incredible 0:34:41.480 --> 0:34:45.239 ll cool J freestyle came out of After Midnight and 0:34:45.280 --> 0:34:48.600 it's like he's rhyming over Tee La Rocket's yours, It's 0:34:48.600 --> 0:34:52.319 yours yeah, and it's it's like magic. That shit was 0:34:52.360 --> 0:34:54.400 so powerful and so amazing. 0:34:54.760 --> 0:34:58.040 Last year when we tour with LLL the amount of 0:34:58.120 --> 0:35:01.439 begging we had to do to get him, he only 0:35:01.480 --> 0:35:02.920 did it once, like that was going to be his 0:35:02.960 --> 0:35:05.680 on core before we did Rock the bells together. Wow, 0:35:06.280 --> 0:35:09.440 like he has zero clue or how much of a 0:35:09.560 --> 0:35:13.600 spiritual experience that was for most of the Tri state 0:35:13.640 --> 0:35:16.879 area and the amount of tape trading and that sort 0:35:16.880 --> 0:35:17.160 of thing. 0:35:17.600 --> 0:35:20.000 Oh, forget it, listen. And I figured this is going 0:35:20.040 --> 0:35:22.319 to come up later. But I saw the Force Tour 0:35:22.360 --> 0:35:25.400 when you guys came to Vegas, and oh, man, you guys. 0:35:26.440 --> 0:35:29.160 I mean I've seen so I've seen literally probably you know, 0:35:29.320 --> 0:35:32.440 hundreds of rap shows in my life, but I'm serious, 0:35:32.480 --> 0:35:35.279 that was the greatest rap concert I've ever seen in 0:35:35.320 --> 0:35:38.200 my life. And that includes the Fresh Fest one, Fresh 0:35:38.280 --> 0:35:41.839 Fest two, all the classic Public Enemy concerts, all that. 0:35:42.680 --> 0:35:45.960 The reason is it's you deserve it because it was 0:35:46.640 --> 0:35:50.879 so well choreographed, so well run. There was no downtime. 0:35:51.160 --> 0:35:54.080 It was like constant action on the stage and with 0:35:54.120 --> 0:35:57.080 those three Frilly guys in the middle, it was flawless. 0:35:57.160 --> 0:35:59.600 And I think like you really raised the bar for 0:35:59.640 --> 0:36:01.120 what around conser it can be. 0:36:01.440 --> 0:36:05.800 You know what, yo, dude, it's hitting me right now 0:36:05.880 --> 0:36:10.239 as we speak. One of the key pivotal moments in 0:36:10.360 --> 0:36:13.839 Roots history. You came to the Tracadero and witnessed your 0:36:13.840 --> 0:36:21.759 first Roots performance, and you gave me real constructive criticism. 0:36:22.200 --> 0:36:25.000 I took it to heart and applied it. He's like, hey, 0:36:25.080 --> 0:36:28.879 it was dope, but listen, you got to figure out 0:36:28.880 --> 0:36:31.879 a way to engage your audience and grab them in. 0:36:32.719 --> 0:36:34.680 And you taught me about formatting. 0:36:35.360 --> 0:36:37.320 You said, you guys are going to heavy on the 0:36:37.400 --> 0:36:39.360 on the dazz, drum solo and all that stuff. But 0:36:40.040 --> 0:36:42.560 you know, I think a dope thing you all should 0:36:42.560 --> 0:36:46.680 consider is occasionally in your song like pepper It like 0:36:46.760 --> 0:36:51.799 condiments with hip hop references that people would know. We 0:36:52.880 --> 0:36:56.960 did that while we were a busking group, but then 0:36:57.000 --> 0:37:00.760 we decided, you know, when you're busting and you're playing 0:37:00.760 --> 0:37:01.400 for like three. 0:37:01.200 --> 0:37:04.040 To four hours on the corner, you're gonna run out 0:37:04.040 --> 0:37:04.279 of shit. 0:37:04.840 --> 0:37:06.920 So you know, it was easy to tell your upright 0:37:06.960 --> 0:37:10.040 bass player, all right, start with discoursions, all right, let's 0:37:10.040 --> 0:37:12.200 go to bugging out. Okay, let's go to wrapping promoter, 0:37:12.440 --> 0:37:13.200 all right, let's go to. 0:37:13.200 --> 0:37:15.759 It like you. We would literally go through the. 0:37:15.800 --> 0:37:19.600 Entire tribe discography because there's this drum and upright bass. 0:37:20.600 --> 0:37:23.000 But once we got like, okay, we're not playing on 0:37:23.000 --> 0:37:23.839 the streets no more. 0:37:24.080 --> 0:37:25.680 Let's just do all original material. 0:37:26.160 --> 0:37:28.560 And you told me it's like yo, man, like y'all 0:37:28.560 --> 0:37:31.560 got to bring back and you said hip hop one 0:37:31.560 --> 0:37:35.359 on one And I had a meeting the next day 0:37:35.360 --> 0:37:37.399 with the dudes and they were like, all right, well 0:37:37.520 --> 0:37:41.560 let's see what happened. And that single handedly, like I 0:37:41.640 --> 0:37:45.200 totally forgot that you kind of were the spark that 0:37:45.480 --> 0:37:48.920 started that moment of me figuring out the show as 0:37:50.120 --> 0:37:52.160 in format terms and how to how. 0:37:52.040 --> 0:37:54.799 To pace things and all that stuff. I totally forgot that. 0:37:55.200 --> 0:37:56.840 I mere, how Coen do you call audibles during the 0:37:57.000 --> 0:37:59.200 during the show? Do you do that ever? Like in 0:37:59.239 --> 0:38:01.000 the middle of a show, like you feel the crowd, 0:38:01.040 --> 0:38:02.440 you feel a thing like if all of a sudden 0:38:02.640 --> 0:38:04.240 LL is like, let's do this. Do you ever audible? 0:38:04.280 --> 0:38:05.759 I've never seen you do that, but I know you 0:38:05.800 --> 0:38:07.000 talk all the time to the band. 0:38:07.280 --> 0:38:07.480 You know. 0:38:07.520 --> 0:38:09.840 It's so weird, man, because I come from the Prince 0:38:09.880 --> 0:38:13.400 school of presentation. You know, George Clinton used to always 0:38:13.520 --> 0:38:18.880 joke that prints would rehearse spontaneity like and do I 0:38:18.920 --> 0:38:24.160 ever allow for a moment that requires that. This past weekend, 0:38:24.880 --> 0:38:29.680 in which of this taping, I will call it the 0:38:29.719 --> 0:38:36.080 Microsoft Gate domino effect. There was a Microsoft update effect 0:38:36.239 --> 0:38:40.319 that effected any business that uses Microsoft, including airports and 0:38:40.800 --> 0:38:41.880 hotels and whatnot. 0:38:42.440 --> 0:38:45.520 So as a result, this. 0:38:45.440 --> 0:38:50.960 Past weekend we were doing fragmentute root shows like you know, 0:38:51.040 --> 0:38:53.880 somehow we went from a trio to earth Wind and 0:38:53.920 --> 0:38:56.719 Fire like there's eleven of us now and. 0:38:56.719 --> 0:38:58.160 So we were kind of reduced. 0:38:58.560 --> 0:39:04.799 We were reduced to a seven man group, which you know, 0:39:04.960 --> 0:39:09.920 because I am a somewhat of a former creature of habit. 0:39:10.320 --> 0:39:12.839 If there's a monkey Wrinch store in my way, yes, 0:39:13.200 --> 0:39:16.839 I'm able to adjust. Do I like that? I hate 0:39:16.840 --> 0:39:20.800 it for me. I want the well oiled, well rehearsed 0:39:20.960 --> 0:39:26.440 version of perfection for everyone to see it. But I 0:39:26.480 --> 0:39:30.640 will say that in the last month or so, I'm 0:39:30.680 --> 0:39:36.759 purposely calling shit. While Rica's mid third verse, I'm like, yo, 0:39:36.840 --> 0:39:38.720 do you remember without a doubt from things fall apart? 0:39:39.080 --> 0:39:40.680 And he'll be ron and dad like. 0:39:40.719 --> 0:39:43.359 Treeka has the ability to communicate with me as he's 0:39:43.360 --> 0:39:46.759 still rhyme and shake his said yeah I know. Or 0:39:46.840 --> 0:39:48.839 he'll say like two verses like I know that much, 0:39:48.960 --> 0:39:52.920 and then you know, show download a Saturday night real 0:39:53.000 --> 0:39:54.640 quick by school. We d just take the drum baker 0:39:54.640 --> 0:39:58.200 from the beginning, like literally in the last month and 0:39:58.239 --> 0:40:02.320 a half or so I've been sort of in that 0:40:02.480 --> 0:40:04.439 place to see if I can leave my comfort zone 0:40:04.560 --> 0:40:07.000 because right now we have way too much material, and 0:40:07.160 --> 0:40:10.040 especially with these records that we have coming out in 0:40:10.239 --> 0:40:13.080 twenty twenty five, like I'm gonna have to literally throw 0:40:13.160 --> 0:40:17.879 this entire perfect show away and start all over again. 0:40:18.000 --> 0:40:20.719 So I'm this time, I'm looking forward to it. Previously 0:40:20.800 --> 0:40:25.040 I had dread like, man, we got to build it 0:40:25.080 --> 0:40:27.520 from the beginning. But you know, I feel as though 0:40:28.760 --> 0:40:31.799 that's that's my life lesson, like pivoting and that sort 0:40:31.840 --> 0:40:32.040 of thing. 0:40:32.160 --> 0:40:34.719 So that was why the Force Tour was so great. 0:40:35.120 --> 0:40:38.240 Was Tarique was the greatest hype man in the history 0:40:38.239 --> 0:40:41.960 of hipp I mean, yeah, there's nobody ever who can 0:40:42.760 --> 0:40:45.759 you know, he's a center MC, he's the star. But 0:40:45.840 --> 0:40:47.480 then when he's time for him to be the hype man, 0:40:47.560 --> 0:40:50.960 he's the greatest hype man of all time. And you know, 0:40:51.560 --> 0:40:53.840 you guys got so much out of like like a 0:40:54.000 --> 0:40:56.719 rock him, who's you know, not necessarily known for being 0:40:56.760 --> 0:40:59.719 a great live performer, but you guys certainly worked so 0:41:00.360 --> 0:41:02.160 you got the max you could get out of a 0:41:02.239 --> 0:41:05.800 lot of these people. And also the stro Elliot aspect 0:41:05.920 --> 0:41:07.960 was another thing because you had, you know, real eight 0:41:08.000 --> 0:41:10.160 oh eight and all that stuff on there, and I 0:41:10.200 --> 0:41:12.400 mean you figured it out. You figured out the formula. 0:41:12.960 --> 0:41:14.959 Whereas you know and other wrap shows of the past, 0:41:15.000 --> 0:41:18.880 it used to be long delays and you know, miscommunication, 0:41:19.160 --> 0:41:21.400 no choreography, you know, et cetera, et cetera. 0:41:21.560 --> 0:41:28.399 You know, So when did you leave Power ninety nine? 0:41:28.840 --> 0:41:31.439 When I graduated from high school in nineteen eighty six, 0:41:31.719 --> 0:41:33.680 that was the end of my Power ninety nine time. 0:41:35.120 --> 0:41:35.719 What year was it? 0:41:35.800 --> 0:41:38.560 When the end the story you just told about when 0:41:38.640 --> 0:41:40.480 we when I saw your show and made some comments, 0:41:40.520 --> 0:41:41.080 what year was that? 0:41:41.320 --> 0:41:41.440 Was that? 0:41:41.600 --> 0:41:46.480 Like nineteen ninety That was ninety three, ninety three? 0:41:46.680 --> 0:41:50.680 Okay, us at Master Ace were at the layup was 0:41:51.080 --> 0:41:55.400 kind of like of you from the Undergrounds, you know whatever, 0:41:55.440 --> 0:41:58.359 those cartoons whoever like Sees and Tramp and all those. 0:41:58.320 --> 0:42:00.680 Jazz stations and see yeah yeah, good h yeah. 0:42:01.080 --> 0:42:04.200 Philly guys like they had one of the very first 0:42:04.239 --> 0:42:06.759 examples of what I call like your hip hop shop. 0:42:06.880 --> 0:42:10.120 Now every city has a hip hop shop where there's 0:42:11.040 --> 0:42:13.000 the T shirt in the gear, but you know, if 0:42:13.040 --> 0:42:15.640 you wanted to get fresh jive shirts or your skateboard 0:42:15.719 --> 0:42:21.080 gear or you know, what's supreme is now that's you know. 0:42:21.239 --> 0:42:26.880 So Keith McPhee are our longtime production manager, owned one 0:42:26.920 --> 0:42:29.319 of those hip hop shops and he used to work 0:42:29.360 --> 0:42:32.360 at Sound the Market and he organized the show, and 0:42:32.560 --> 0:42:36.160 I think, yeah, it was us master Ace. I think 0:42:36.280 --> 0:42:39.959 Onyx made their debut in Philly at night, but you guys, 0:42:41.000 --> 0:42:43.600 you guys came and I was like excited, like yo, 0:42:43.719 --> 0:42:46.359 the guys from The Sorcerer were here. Oh my god, 0:42:46.480 --> 0:42:49.080 Like I think it's the first time we had like 0:42:49.239 --> 0:42:50.280 our first rehearsal. 0:42:50.360 --> 0:42:52.800 We never rehearsed. We would just like go off the 0:42:52.880 --> 0:42:53.520 top and whatever. 0:42:53.600 --> 0:42:58.160 And I think the nervousness of preparing something sort of 0:42:58.239 --> 0:43:00.440 took us off our game where we were little too 0:43:00.560 --> 0:43:03.920 serious about it and not And you told us like 0:43:04.000 --> 0:43:06.160 y'all didn't do the things that I heard about you 0:43:06.280 --> 0:43:08.560 guys doing. And I was like, yeah, you're right, Like 0:43:08.680 --> 0:43:13.640 I was over preparing and I learned to bring back 0:43:13.719 --> 0:43:14.319 hip hop one on. 0:43:14.400 --> 0:43:16.279 One so nice. 0:43:16.320 --> 0:43:17.080 Now, do you know? 0:43:17.400 --> 0:43:19.160 Before we leave Philly, I just want to just mention 0:43:19.280 --> 0:43:22.040 one more part of Philly, which is a did you 0:43:22.080 --> 0:43:25.520 ever hear of Rubber Park? Does that name of ring 0:43:25.600 --> 0:43:26.160 a bell at all? 0:43:26.600 --> 0:43:27.279 Rubber Park? 0:43:27.760 --> 0:43:32.680 Rubber Park was a park that, like as the name implies, 0:43:32.840 --> 0:43:35.759 was covered in like a rubber substance. It was down 0:43:35.880 --> 0:43:39.799 on It was down on Delaware Avenue kind of near 0:43:39.920 --> 0:43:43.640 South Street, like Bainbridge around like Bainbridge and Delaware Avenue 0:43:44.080 --> 0:43:46.959 back I'm talking about in like eighty five, nineteen eighty five, 0:43:47.160 --> 0:43:50.400 eighty four, eighty five. That was where I got my 0:43:51.680 --> 0:43:53.560 It was it was past South Street. You'd have to walk. 0:43:53.560 --> 0:43:55.560 It's right along the river, like when you remember how 0:43:55.560 --> 0:43:57.319 they used to be like parks and things right along 0:43:57.360 --> 0:44:00.440 the river there. And that was where I got my 0:44:00.600 --> 0:44:03.399 first dose of real hip hop culture. That was where 0:44:04.719 --> 0:44:10.719 you know, people would break, dance, graffiti, rap, all of it. 0:44:11.000 --> 0:44:12.120 Not DJ because but. 0:44:12.360 --> 0:44:15.759 Is this like Second Street or Delaware Avenue. 0:44:15.560 --> 0:44:18.279 Delaware Avenue like it was like facing the water, like right, 0:44:18.360 --> 0:44:19.640 you know, like close to the water. 0:44:20.080 --> 0:44:21.759 You know what. I'll be honest with you. 0:44:22.440 --> 0:44:27.720 Because of crack Era, like after that limb Bias story 0:44:27.800 --> 0:44:30.840 broke out, my dad and mom were like. 0:44:31.760 --> 0:44:34.920 Super visual, super vigilant, like. 0:44:35.719 --> 0:44:38.120 Before that Oprah theme comes on, Yeah, it's better be 0:44:38.200 --> 0:44:39.680 in this crib and da da da dah dah. 0:44:39.719 --> 0:44:42.879 So like when you're like four or five years younger 0:44:42.920 --> 0:44:44.880 than me, So I think that's probably why. You know, 0:44:44.960 --> 0:44:46.800 I wasn't that old either, but you know, I was 0:44:47.239 --> 0:44:49.560 making my way down there. But that was that The 0:44:49.640 --> 0:44:51.960 reason I mentioned is just because no one ever mentions it, 0:44:52.040 --> 0:44:54.680 and it's like that was one of the first places 0:44:54.760 --> 0:44:59.160 in downtown Philly that real hip hop culture emerged. It 0:44:59.239 --> 0:45:03.759 was because there's a proximity to South Philly. There's you know, 0:45:03.880 --> 0:45:06.040 there's a lot of neighborhoods in that area that where 0:45:06.360 --> 0:45:08.560 there was real hip hop culture and they kind of 0:45:08.680 --> 0:45:11.120 kids would gather in that park, and that was a 0:45:11.200 --> 0:45:13.640 time when I was like just consuming all the records, 0:45:13.760 --> 0:45:15.520 like you know, like it's sort of all the big 0:45:15.600 --> 0:45:18.839 names like Fat Boys, who Don't get who Don't Get 0:45:18.920 --> 0:45:21.840 enough love? By the way, You're right, I love the 0:45:21.880 --> 0:45:25.600 Fat Boys people. I was listening to can You Feel 0:45:25.640 --> 0:45:29.120 It yesterday, which is one of my favorite songs. I'm 0:45:29.160 --> 0:45:32.120 pretty sure Larry Smith produced that. I'm not exactly I think. 0:45:32.000 --> 0:45:36.440 So, but adjacent Curtis and Larry were adjacent who have 0:45:36.600 --> 0:45:38.680 told me that was his first record you ever purchased. 0:45:39.400 --> 0:45:40.000 Can You Feel It? 0:45:41.120 --> 0:45:43.759 The very first Fat Boys record was the first album that. 0:45:43.960 --> 0:45:48.279 Wow, the album Yeah, yeah, okay anyway, So that was it. 0:45:48.360 --> 0:45:49.799 I was just curious if you if you had heard 0:45:49.840 --> 0:45:51.680 of that locale in Philly. 0:45:52.160 --> 0:45:56.440 Nah, Like really, I didn't start. I only hung with adults, 0:45:56.680 --> 0:45:58.920 like if I had free time. I was in the 0:45:59.000 --> 0:46:03.759 family business, traveling with my dad a lot during school time. 0:46:03.800 --> 0:46:06.359 I always came straight home, never allowed to hang out. 0:46:07.000 --> 0:46:10.279 And then kind of when I met Treek, that's when 0:46:10.520 --> 0:46:13.080 the sort of arrange were like lift it a little bit. 0:46:13.560 --> 0:46:15.759 Where maybe I can go to a movie or that 0:46:15.920 --> 0:46:16.400 sort of thing. 0:46:16.480 --> 0:46:21.359 But like my first real act of rebellion was, yo, 0:46:21.480 --> 0:46:24.359 let's go bust on South Street, you know, because even 0:46:24.480 --> 0:46:28.520 then the thing was like wait, take my drums on 0:46:28.680 --> 0:46:30.040 South Street, my dad will kill me. 0:46:30.320 --> 0:46:34.200 Like it was that type of that type of atmosphere. 0:46:34.360 --> 0:46:37.080 So for those who were from back in the eighties, 0:46:37.160 --> 0:46:39.759 South Street was it didn't have a lot of hip hop. 0:46:39.800 --> 0:46:41.520 When I first started hanging out there, it was all 0:46:41.600 --> 0:46:44.560 punk rock. It was a punk rock place, and they 0:46:44.600 --> 0:46:47.400 had that Zipperhead record clothing store and there was a 0:46:47.480 --> 0:46:50.600 record store right by there. I would go to Gym Staks. 0:46:50.800 --> 0:46:52.759 I lived very close to Gym Stakes, so I would 0:46:52.760 --> 0:46:55.359 go there. I would go to Gym Stakes like all 0:46:55.400 --> 0:46:59.000 the time, and and then you know, even just by 0:46:59.120 --> 0:47:01.359 being there on South Street. I wasn't really a punk 0:47:01.480 --> 0:47:03.520 rock guy, but I got into it because it was 0:47:03.760 --> 0:47:07.480 it was all around, and it was yeah, it was 0:47:07.520 --> 0:47:09.480 happening at the same time as hip hop, as we 0:47:09.560 --> 0:47:11.120 all know, so it was there was kind of a 0:47:11.640 --> 0:47:13.840 there was a pairing there, you know, there was some connection. 0:47:14.120 --> 0:47:16.320 So I was, you know, exposed to a lot of 0:47:16.360 --> 0:47:18.680 punk rock at that at that stage. But it wasn't 0:47:18.760 --> 0:47:21.359 until later that it became more of like a hip 0:47:21.360 --> 0:47:24.040 hop street, you know. But in the beginning it was 0:47:24.120 --> 0:47:26.120 it started as a hippie place, you know, back in 0:47:26.200 --> 0:47:29.000 the day, and then it evolved into like, yeah, counterculture. 0:47:29.280 --> 0:47:32.320 My sister was slightly older, so she would hang on 0:47:32.440 --> 0:47:35.279 South Street with their girlfriends and there was like that 0:47:35.600 --> 0:47:38.200 that ice cream spot, once upon a porch or something 0:47:38.280 --> 0:47:41.680 like that, right right, right, yeah, Like I remember South 0:47:41.680 --> 0:47:44.319 Street when it was actual like the village like counterculture. 0:47:44.320 --> 0:47:47.640 And then totally in the gap and Tower Records came 0:47:47.680 --> 0:47:52.640 and then yes, exactly, the Starbucks and then right so, 0:47:52.960 --> 0:47:56.480 if you're friends elect and obviously of course this makes 0:47:56.520 --> 0:48:00.520 you ivy leak material, what were your other college options? 0:48:01.520 --> 0:48:05.240 Like, why did you choose Pin Wait, what did you say? Harvard? No, Harvard? 0:48:05.280 --> 0:48:06.240 Why did you choose Harvard? 0:48:07.080 --> 0:48:10.200 Well, okay, I had what was your essay about? 0:48:10.680 --> 0:48:13.760 Where do you want to be? What were your KAT scores? 0:48:13.800 --> 0:48:15.360 I want to know all the ship checky, let's get it. 0:48:16.080 --> 0:48:19.359 Okay. So what happened was when I got to senior year. 0:48:20.560 --> 0:48:22.319 You know, I was kind of living this dual life 0:48:22.320 --> 0:48:24.440 because I would go and hang out with all the 0:48:24.719 --> 0:48:28.480 Power ninety nine people, and you know, I would still 0:48:28.480 --> 0:48:30.640 go to school every day. I was kind of doing both. 0:48:30.680 --> 0:48:33.359 I was burning the candle at both ends kind of thing, 0:48:35.040 --> 0:48:38.399 and I was able to be. I was a good 0:48:38.440 --> 0:48:43.960 student for the most part, and particularly with English. I 0:48:44.160 --> 0:48:48.520 was like, you know, I was a English major type guy. 0:48:48.680 --> 0:48:51.719 You know. I was reading and writing and focusing on 0:48:52.040 --> 0:48:53.440 books and stuff that kind of thing. 0:48:54.040 --> 0:48:54.200 You know. 0:48:54.239 --> 0:48:56.160 In addition to working at Power in nine, I also 0:48:56.239 --> 0:48:59.280 started writing about hip hop at a very like early stage, 0:48:59.400 --> 0:49:02.719 like in like eighty five, I was writing articles for 0:49:03.560 --> 0:49:06.360 not only my school newspaper, but also there was a 0:49:06.800 --> 0:49:10.399 newspaper on South Street. It was called the I can't 0:49:10.440 --> 0:49:12.400 even remember what it was called, maybe the South Street 0:49:12.480 --> 0:49:14.120 Star possibly, but. 0:49:14.719 --> 0:49:15.880 It was like a village voices. 0:49:16.000 --> 0:49:18.080 It was like a village voice type exactly. It was 0:49:18.160 --> 0:49:20.960 like a village voice. It didn't last probably that long, 0:49:21.080 --> 0:49:23.920 but so I was starting to write, like you know 0:49:24.120 --> 0:49:26.960 these what ended up being what I do with the source. 0:49:27.160 --> 0:49:30.319 I started at a you know, in Philly, writing about 0:49:30.400 --> 0:49:32.160 rap and I would attend. It's mainly because I was 0:49:32.200 --> 0:49:34.960 going to the concerts and I was, you know, writing 0:49:35.000 --> 0:49:37.839 about that. So like you know, Fresh Best one, Fresh 0:49:37.880 --> 0:49:42.960 Best two. There was a concert called the Philly versus 0:49:43.040 --> 0:49:43.800 New York Battle. 0:49:43.960 --> 0:49:44.640 I remember that. 0:49:45.160 --> 0:49:47.160 You remember that? Okay, I remember. 0:49:46.880 --> 0:49:49.799 Hearing about it, but I was, yeah, okay, wait, I'm 0:49:49.840 --> 0:49:54.480 one of those hip hop stages, elders. 0:49:54.080 --> 0:49:57.360 Whatever you want to call me that you don't say. 0:49:59.080 --> 0:50:03.000 There will be some time is where like I'll revisit 0:50:03.120 --> 0:50:05.279 something from thirty years ago that I swore. 0:50:05.920 --> 0:50:08.920 Basically the Mandela effect. Are you familiar with that term, 0:50:09.000 --> 0:50:11.239 the Mandela effect? No? What is that? But I like 0:50:11.280 --> 0:50:13.040 it when you refer to yourself as Mandela though here 0:50:13.120 --> 0:50:14.920 we go. Wait, wait, you guys don't know what the 0:50:15.040 --> 0:50:17.239 Mandela effect is. I've never heard of this of life. 0:50:17.480 --> 0:50:21.600 Okay, So so the Mandela effect is kind of like 0:50:22.680 --> 0:50:26.600 a good version of an urban legend. Like basically, I 0:50:26.680 --> 0:50:31.680 think Mandel effects started with people thinking that the Mandela 0:50:31.800 --> 0:50:35.000 funeral was televised, Like I could have sworn that happen, 0:50:35.440 --> 0:50:38.520 and it didn't happen. You know, like six degrees of 0:50:38.560 --> 0:50:40.960 Kevin Bacon was like a thing and pop culture. Yea, 0:50:41.239 --> 0:50:45.360 now the term the Mendela effect. Okay, So some common 0:50:45.360 --> 0:50:49.640 examples of the Mendel effect of logical explanations like mister 0:50:49.760 --> 0:50:53.880 Monopoly wearing a monocle because it complements his old fashioned 0:50:54.000 --> 0:50:57.279 satirical Like mister Monopoly doesn't wear a monocle, but we 0:50:57.680 --> 0:50:58.239 think he does. 0:50:58.640 --> 0:51:00.960 I understand. So it's like the mistake in memory that 0:51:01.000 --> 0:51:03.480 everyone shares that that is not necessarily a bad thing. 0:51:03.600 --> 0:51:03.799 Yeah. 0:51:04.080 --> 0:51:06.480 Yeah, it says widespread false memories that large number of 0:51:06.480 --> 0:51:08.480 people are groups believe got it right. 0:51:08.640 --> 0:51:12.880 And just like in my version of it is, you know, 0:51:13.239 --> 0:51:18.200 I will return to the storied summer of nineteen eighty 0:51:18.239 --> 0:51:22.560 eight in which everything was changing our lives. But then 0:51:22.640 --> 0:51:25.640 I'll go back and listen to it, and then I'll 0:51:25.680 --> 0:51:31.120 be like, Okay, was this sophomore album as good as 0:51:31.200 --> 0:51:35.320 I thought it was in terms of the folkal or whatnot? 0:51:36.000 --> 0:51:38.400 And let's just say that, like if you were to 0:51:38.440 --> 0:51:40.080 put a gun in my head and basically say, like, 0:51:40.120 --> 0:51:42.440 all right, was this really a classic record? 0:51:42.520 --> 0:51:44.000 Were you just in your moments? 0:51:44.160 --> 0:51:46.839 I talked to this with ll like you couldn't tell 0:51:46.880 --> 0:51:49.399 me shit about Walking with the Panther in eighty nine. 0:51:50.120 --> 0:51:52.440 But when I let five years ago by I went 0:51:52.520 --> 0:51:56.640 back to it, I was like, Okay, I see where 0:51:56.640 --> 0:51:59.280 the ridicule came in. But I still hold that album 0:52:00.160 --> 0:52:04.399 precious to me, even though it's not as classic as 0:52:05.040 --> 0:52:07.719 my seventeen year old mind said it was. So I'm 0:52:07.800 --> 0:52:11.239 just asking you were rap shows back then as you 0:52:11.400 --> 0:52:16.360 remember it as legendary as we. 0:52:18.719 --> 0:52:22.520 Thought it was, or was it? Just like, Okay, shows 0:52:22.520 --> 0:52:25.520 are better now, even though the feeling is better than my. 0:52:25.640 --> 0:52:28.080 Take on it is. If you want to talk about 0:52:28.120 --> 0:52:30.120 nineteen eighty eight, I still believe to this day of 0:52:30.160 --> 0:52:32.600 the eighty eight was the most incredible year for hip hop. 0:52:32.640 --> 0:52:34.759 I will always believe that. I think eighty eight was 0:52:34.840 --> 0:52:38.120 the pinnacle of hip hop. However, when it came to 0:52:38.200 --> 0:52:41.839 the shows, as I said, a lot of them were problematic. 0:52:41.960 --> 0:52:43.920 I mean, you know, like, even though I was loving it, 0:52:44.160 --> 0:52:46.400 there was nothing for us to compare it to in 0:52:46.480 --> 0:52:49.880 the early days in Philly, I would witness crazy scenes 0:52:50.120 --> 0:52:54.480 of you know, at the door inside the venue. This 0:52:54.640 --> 0:52:56.920 is mostly out the spectrum. That was most of the 0:52:56.960 --> 0:52:58.960 shows I will go to. We're out the spectrum, you 0:52:59.000 --> 0:53:01.680 would see people being thrown off the balcony. I mean 0:53:01.760 --> 0:53:04.800 it would be crazy shit. Oh yeah, oh, crazy stuff. 0:53:04.840 --> 0:53:08.360 I mean throughout you know, most of those shows, there 0:53:08.360 --> 0:53:10.920 would be some crazy incidents. I mean, for the most part, 0:53:11.000 --> 0:53:13.759 they were fine. There was not a you know, nobody died, 0:53:13.800 --> 0:53:16.680 I don't think, but you know, there was, you know, 0:53:16.960 --> 0:53:21.160 there was. They weren't well put together shows, but I 0:53:21.280 --> 0:53:23.320 think it was we were so starved for you know. 0:53:23.360 --> 0:53:25.919 I mean back then there weren't very even videos really 0:53:26.040 --> 0:53:28.560 for most songs, so you were just kind of seeing 0:53:28.600 --> 0:53:30.520 the artists. All you saw was the record cover and 0:53:30.600 --> 0:53:32.719 then what was in the venue right there with you, 0:53:32.880 --> 0:53:36.040 you know, so there was I think the moment was 0:53:36.120 --> 0:53:38.319 so like, I mean, I saw all those shows, all 0:53:38.440 --> 0:53:40.959 those amazing and especially and you want to talk about 0:53:41.000 --> 0:53:44.520 eighty eight. Chuck de often refers to a certain show 0:53:44.560 --> 0:53:46.640 at the Philly Spectrum in nineteen eighty eight as the 0:53:46.719 --> 0:53:49.280 greatest hip hop concert of all time, And I agree 0:53:49.960 --> 0:53:52.840 it was. I mean, you know of that era anyway, 0:53:53.040 --> 0:53:55.719 It was right when Nation of Millions was red hot, 0:53:55.920 --> 0:53:59.080 and it was like perfect, perfect timing. Also on the 0:53:59.120 --> 0:54:04.480 bill was rock Him and Eric b. Ll Statsosnic I 0:54:04.520 --> 0:54:07.680 think Big Daddy Kane, like a whole bunch of great artists. 0:54:08.239 --> 0:54:11.160 But I just remember a Nation of Millions being at 0:54:11.200 --> 0:54:14.239 the pinnacle of that moment and just like the energy was, 0:54:14.440 --> 0:54:17.240 you know, through the roof. I mean, obviously that record 0:54:17.320 --> 0:54:19.839 had captured the hip hop generation almost like no other 0:54:21.120 --> 0:54:21.560 that album. 0:54:21.719 --> 0:54:25.879 Yeah, so were any of your hip hop contemporaries, those 0:54:25.960 --> 0:54:29.320 of it, of age at least even thinking of traveling 0:54:29.400 --> 0:54:32.920 up north to the Latin Quarter to witness it? 0:54:33.080 --> 0:54:35.279 Or as you all know, if you guys grow up, 0:54:35.280 --> 0:54:37.359 if you grow up in Philly, there's always this sort 0:54:37.400 --> 0:54:40.719 of New York is like this big, imposing, like big brother, 0:54:41.000 --> 0:54:42.719 like next to you, you know what I mean. It's 0:54:42.840 --> 0:54:48.400 like we always admired it, respected it, maybe feared it, 0:54:48.719 --> 0:54:51.880 maybe didn't understand. You know, we wanted we were jealous 0:54:51.920 --> 0:54:54.160 of it, but then we acted like we weren't jealous 0:54:54.200 --> 0:54:56.480 of it. You know, there was this there was this 0:54:56.600 --> 0:54:59.680 whole sort of thing where New York was the big 0:54:59.760 --> 0:55:02.560 city and Philly was like you know, the sixth Borough 0:55:02.560 --> 0:55:05.719 of New York or something like that, you know, and 0:55:07.120 --> 0:55:09.719 we were, you know, always drawn to it. For sure. 0:55:11.480 --> 0:55:13.480 I was probably too young during the prime of the 0:55:13.600 --> 0:55:15.480 Latin Quarter era to go there, but I did end 0:55:15.600 --> 0:55:18.000 up going there later in like eighty eight, I think 0:55:18.040 --> 0:55:20.440 I went there. But there was, you know, there was 0:55:20.480 --> 0:55:23.680 always that sort of love hate relationship. You remember when 0:55:24.320 --> 0:55:27.120 Double D n Steinsky had a record that was the 0:55:27.480 --> 0:55:28.920 you know, that great mashup record. 0:55:29.360 --> 0:55:29.800 Yeah it was. 0:55:30.600 --> 0:55:32.440 That was such a great song, right, it was one 0:55:32.440 --> 0:55:34.880 of the first mashups ever. And you remember at one 0:55:34.920 --> 0:55:37.120 part that used to go New York is red hot, 0:55:37.800 --> 0:55:40.680 New York is read right, and everyone in Philly used 0:55:40.719 --> 0:55:44.000 to go New York ain't shit, New York ain't shit. 0:55:46.200 --> 0:55:48.399 And then around that same time you brought up mc 0:55:48.560 --> 0:55:53.239 breeze Discombobulated Boobulator, right, and then the flip side was 0:55:53.280 --> 0:55:55.600 a song called it Ain't New York because Philly is 0:55:55.600 --> 0:55:57.480 stepping in. You know that song. 0:55:57.840 --> 0:55:59.280 I know I have the twelvens. 0:55:59.600 --> 0:56:02.600 Yeah, the b side to Discombobulate or Boobulater, which was 0:56:02.680 --> 0:56:06.000 a song about you know, pro Philly anti New York 0:56:06.120 --> 0:56:08.880 kind of sentiments. So yeah, it was always there as 0:56:09.000 --> 0:56:12.920 kind of like this big, imposing place, and eventually all 0:56:13.000 --> 0:56:14.839 of us ended up making our way there one way 0:56:14.920 --> 0:56:15.719 or another. You know. 0:56:16.719 --> 0:56:18.520 Yeah, because I could have sworn that you were just 0:56:18.600 --> 0:56:22.000 straight up New Yorker, I didn't realize that you had 0:56:22.040 --> 0:56:23.800 Philly ties, and I was shocked. 0:56:23.800 --> 0:56:27.279 I was like, oh shit, okay, I see. So yeah, 0:56:27.440 --> 0:56:32.480 like your time at Harvard, when you're graduating, what do 0:56:32.640 --> 0:56:35.000 you want to be? What are you aspiring to. 0:56:35.040 --> 0:56:38.560 Be graduating high school? Yeah, when I was graduating high school, 0:56:38.920 --> 0:56:41.360 I wanted to be I think I just wanted to 0:56:41.400 --> 0:56:44.040 be on the radio. I think that was kind of 0:56:44.120 --> 0:56:47.719 my main goal, or my main sort of I wanted. 0:56:47.760 --> 0:56:50.440 I knew I wanted to be around music, somewhere on 0:56:50.560 --> 0:56:52.880 the I guess on the business side of music or 0:56:52.960 --> 0:56:56.719 on the broadcasting side of music. And to answer your question, 0:56:56.880 --> 0:57:00.360 I got into Penn as well. And then they let you. 0:57:01.800 --> 0:57:05.080 Pen allowed you if you lived in Pennsylvania and you 0:57:05.160 --> 0:57:07.839 applied to Penn, you got in early, then you could 0:57:08.360 --> 0:57:11.200 still apply to other schools. So once I got into Penn, 0:57:11.760 --> 0:57:14.120 then all I I just went for the number one place, 0:57:15.440 --> 0:57:18.440 and and and and I got rejected from Yale and Princeton, 0:57:18.520 --> 0:57:23.320 but I got into Harvard. Yeah. But anyway, as I 0:57:23.400 --> 0:57:25.720 went there, I mean I pretty much remember that my 0:57:25.880 --> 0:57:30.160 first real mission upon arriving at Harvard was radio station. 0:57:30.520 --> 0:57:33.400 So I went right down to w HRB, which was 0:57:33.480 --> 0:57:36.880 the school's radio station. It was primarily a classical station. 0:57:39.160 --> 0:57:41.480 It's Harvard. Yes, it was exactly as you would picture it, 0:57:42.240 --> 0:57:54.280 you know, exactly that music was playing exactly and so like. 0:57:55.040 --> 0:57:58.520 They had an urban music department, but it was only 0:57:58.600 --> 0:58:02.360 on the weekends, but I signed up for it. There 0:58:02.440 --> 0:58:04.920 was a time slot allotted on like Friday and Saturday 0:58:05.000 --> 0:58:09.200 night for urban music. It had a very unfortunate name, 0:58:09.840 --> 0:58:14.160 the Darker Side TDS. It had nothing to do with race. 0:58:14.360 --> 0:58:16.360 It was because it was at night, okay, but it 0:58:16.440 --> 0:58:20.160 was still a dumb name. Yes, right, Okay. Anyway, so 0:58:20.240 --> 0:58:22.520 I walk in and I'm like, listen, I came in 0:58:22.640 --> 0:58:24.479 with all and now I got all the power ninety 0:58:24.520 --> 0:58:27.080 nine experience under my belt. I feel like I know 0:58:27.240 --> 0:58:29.760 more than everyone else, you know. I walk in and 0:58:29.920 --> 0:58:32.479 they say, okay, I'm like, I'm filling out the form 0:58:32.560 --> 0:58:35.960 of like any past experience, and I write like, you know, 0:58:36.040 --> 0:58:38.600 extra sentences like about all the stuff I've been doing 0:58:38.680 --> 0:58:41.240 with Power ninety nine and all this other stuff. And 0:58:41.320 --> 0:58:44.320 then they just put me in a room with all 0:58:44.360 --> 0:58:46.440 the other beginners and I have to just pay my 0:58:46.600 --> 0:58:50.080 dues and kind of like, you know, be an intern 0:58:50.200 --> 0:58:52.160 for them. You know, like when you're a freshman, you 0:58:52.280 --> 0:58:54.720 kind of have to just like in any any program 0:58:54.840 --> 0:58:57.080 in kylie Is, you have to like pay your dues 0:58:57.200 --> 0:58:59.720 and you know, show that you really you're really serious 0:58:59.720 --> 0:59:02.000 about working there and all that stuff. So I start 0:59:02.040 --> 0:59:06.600 to go through that process, and you know, they didn't 0:59:06.640 --> 0:59:07.320 have a raps show. 0:59:07.360 --> 0:59:07.520 It was. 0:59:07.640 --> 0:59:10.280 It was really just R and B, a straight R 0:59:10.320 --> 0:59:13.280 and B, straight R and B kind of thing, a 0:59:13.320 --> 0:59:18.760 little bit of dance music, I think, and Baker and 0:59:18.880 --> 0:59:22.560 Luther and yeah, yeah, yeah it was. It was at night, 0:59:22.640 --> 0:59:25.800 so more uptempo stuff, I guess. And but again this 0:59:25.960 --> 0:59:28.640 is now, So I graduated in eighty six, so now 0:59:28.720 --> 0:59:31.520 we're talking about, like, you know, we're entering one of 0:59:31.600 --> 0:59:34.720 the prime times of hip hop, Golden era time I 0:59:34.800 --> 0:59:37.360 consider golden era, and everyone has their own definition. I 0:59:37.440 --> 0:59:41.000 consider Golden era eighty four to ninety four. That's just 0:59:41.080 --> 0:59:43.720 my opinion. Everyone has their own opinion. But that's my 0:59:43.840 --> 0:59:49.720 personal opinion from run DMC too like the yeah to 0:59:49.840 --> 0:59:53.120 non it's basically yeah exactly, but at any rate. So 0:59:53.280 --> 0:59:55.400 I'm in there and I'm starting to, like, you know, 0:59:55.640 --> 0:59:57.320 do all the things I'm supposed to do to get 0:59:57.360 --> 1:00:00.760 involved with this radio station. And I'm in my dorm 1:00:00.840 --> 1:00:05.320 room one day and I'm listening to Go See the 1:00:05.400 --> 1:00:07.520 Doctor by kolm o d. I remember I had that 1:00:07.600 --> 1:00:10.200 twelve inch final and I hear a knock at my door. 1:00:11.080 --> 1:00:12.840 It's in the college dorm room, you know. And I 1:00:12.920 --> 1:00:16.800 opened the door and I see a white guy standing 1:00:16.920 --> 1:00:21.520 there with a red Felas sweatsuit and a mustache, and 1:00:21.920 --> 1:00:25.400 he's like, hey, I heard you playing that music. You're 1:00:25.440 --> 1:00:27.400 into that kind of music. And I was like yeah, 1:00:27.560 --> 1:00:30.360 and he's like, hey, I'm Dave. And it was Dave Mace, 1:00:31.600 --> 1:00:34.240 my future partner in the Source, but that was the 1:00:34.400 --> 1:00:38.080 very beginning. He walks in and we start talking and 1:00:38.120 --> 1:00:41.880 we're two white guys who are there who both love 1:00:41.960 --> 1:00:45.440 black music. He was really into go go music in particular, 1:00:45.840 --> 1:00:48.200 which I knew very little about. I mean I knew 1:00:48.280 --> 1:00:50.480 like very little, like only like Chuck Brown and the 1:00:50.520 --> 1:00:53.080 Soul Searchers and the very basics. 1:00:53.200 --> 1:00:55.160 But what was he from the DNB. 1:00:55.840 --> 1:00:59.720 He's from DC. Yeah, yep, he's from Yeah, he's from DC, 1:01:00.160 --> 1:01:01.800 you know. And so we were kind of like sharing 1:01:01.960 --> 1:01:05.600 with each other, like, you know, showing each other, you know, records, 1:01:05.680 --> 1:01:08.480 and you know, I think my argument's a little bit 1:01:08.520 --> 1:01:11.439 more convincing if you're playing somebody wrap records and they're 1:01:11.440 --> 1:01:13.840 playing new Go Go records. I mean, there's way more 1:01:14.040 --> 1:01:17.160 records so you can play, you know. But we became friends. 1:01:17.400 --> 1:01:21.120 And in the beginning, he was working for the school 1:01:21.160 --> 1:01:24.160 paper selling ads, and he was he had a knack 1:01:24.240 --> 1:01:28.760 for selling ads, as we soon all learned, and he 1:01:28.920 --> 1:01:31.720 was selling ads for like the Harvard Crimson, which is 1:01:31.760 --> 1:01:35.440 like a famous school newspaper. And I was like, hey man, 1:01:35.520 --> 1:01:37.960 you didn't realize that. If you you don't, you might 1:01:38.040 --> 1:01:39.320 not know. But if you come down to the radio 1:01:39.360 --> 1:01:42.240 station you sell ads, they let you keep a commission. 1:01:42.440 --> 1:01:44.960 He's like a commission because when you were selling ads 1:01:44.960 --> 1:01:46.920 over there, they didn't let him keep a commission. He's 1:01:47.000 --> 1:01:49.360 like they really And I was like, yeah, come on down. 1:01:49.440 --> 1:01:52.800 So I brought him down to the station, and you know, 1:01:53.080 --> 1:01:54.960 he started doing the same thing I was doing, which 1:01:55.000 --> 1:01:58.720 is like go through the whole initiation process and so forth. 1:01:59.160 --> 1:02:01.360 But then pretty quickly, you know, to make a long 1:02:01.400 --> 1:02:04.760 story short, we kind of teamed up with a couple 1:02:04.800 --> 1:02:08.280 of other students, not famous people, just other students that 1:02:08.320 --> 1:02:11.520 were there at the time, and then you know, we 1:02:11.640 --> 1:02:15.800 started doing this like rap show. I mean it started 1:02:16.000 --> 1:02:16.760 very small. 1:02:18.400 --> 1:02:20.840 Did you have to get permission to do. 1:02:21.000 --> 1:02:24.080 This or yeah, we had to like go through the 1:02:24.120 --> 1:02:26.040 whole It took about a year. It took about a 1:02:26.120 --> 1:02:28.720 year for us from from from when I first went 1:02:28.760 --> 1:02:31.080 down there to us actually getting a rap show. It 1:02:31.160 --> 1:02:33.320 was it was probably a year later. It took like 1:02:33.400 --> 1:02:35.720 a whole year. It was probably sophomore year that I 1:02:35.800 --> 1:02:39.680 actually got the show. And what I did was I 1:02:39.800 --> 1:02:43.120 went back to Philly and went to Power ninety nine 1:02:43.760 --> 1:02:47.320 and walked in and saw some old friends, walked right 1:02:47.480 --> 1:02:51.720 into the studio the b room, like the the not 1:02:51.800 --> 1:02:54.920 the on air studio, but the production studio, and I 1:02:55.040 --> 1:02:58.040 took every single one of Lady Bees on air IDs 1:02:58.120 --> 1:03:01.920 and drops and recorded them so like you're listening to 1:03:02.000 --> 1:03:05.040 street beat, you know, that kind of stuff. And I 1:03:05.200 --> 1:03:07.600 went back down to I went back up to Cambridge 1:03:08.120 --> 1:03:10.160 and I was like, Dave, I got it, and I 1:03:10.200 --> 1:03:12.040 had a cassette and it was we're gonna call our 1:03:12.080 --> 1:03:16.560 show street Beat, and so I basically got you know, 1:03:16.640 --> 1:03:19.600 there were other rap shows that Boston had, like only 1:03:19.680 --> 1:03:21.320 on college radio, but there was like. 1:03:22.440 --> 1:03:24.880 She's saying, if it's like, yo, this is chuf Dan, 1:03:24.920 --> 1:03:26.520 you're checking out the sounds of street Beat. 1:03:26.640 --> 1:03:29.880 You took all the drops of like not artists, but 1:03:30.040 --> 1:03:33.840 more so like like official like the official radio guys. 1:03:34.280 --> 1:03:35.920 Do that guy? Who is that guy? 1:03:36.280 --> 1:03:38.800 There was some guy do a lot of work? Yeah, 1:03:38.920 --> 1:03:40.640 there was that guy was getting a ton of work. 1:03:40.680 --> 1:03:43.720 Back then. There's always somebody like that. But you know, 1:03:43.800 --> 1:03:46.960 it was like you know, cold Rock in the planet 1:03:47.120 --> 1:03:48.960 with street Beat, you know, all that kind of stuff. 1:03:50.440 --> 1:03:52.840 And so that gave us an edge because you know, 1:03:53.000 --> 1:03:55.160 now we have a more we have a very professional 1:03:55.320 --> 1:03:58.640 sounding like station radio show, you know, because we have 1:03:58.760 --> 1:04:02.680 these drops. So I came back. I remember, just by 1:04:03.000 --> 1:04:05.720 randomly that around the same time I had the twelve 1:04:05.800 --> 1:04:09.680 inch for Mantronics and just Ice it was around that 1:04:09.800 --> 1:04:12.200 same time. Whatever. You know, there's a lot a lot 1:04:12.240 --> 1:04:14.240 of those kind of records. So I was bringing records 1:04:14.280 --> 1:04:16.960 back that no one in Boston had heard yet, you know, 1:04:17.360 --> 1:04:19.280 I was I was basically, like you know, the connection 1:04:19.480 --> 1:04:22.640 to like getting records ahead of everybody just because of 1:04:23.200 --> 1:04:25.640 really just going to like Sounds of Market, funkal Mart, 1:04:26.480 --> 1:04:27.360 those kind of places. 1:04:27.640 --> 1:04:30.320 So you weren't getting service yet you still have to buy. 1:04:30.720 --> 1:04:32.960 The station did get serviced, but but yeah, but most 1:04:33.000 --> 1:04:33.960 of the good ones I had to buy. 1:04:34.040 --> 1:04:40.600 Yes, So what was the general attitude or the atmosphere 1:04:40.720 --> 1:04:44.680 at Harvard for this music, Like were they open or 1:04:44.960 --> 1:04:45.160 was it. 1:04:45.400 --> 1:04:49.520 Just like a small two percent of y'all or really 1:04:49.640 --> 1:04:50.240 hip hop ds? 1:04:50.800 --> 1:04:52.800 That's a great question. I mean, I think it was 1:04:52.920 --> 1:04:57.120 pretty reflective of the general population at that time, whereas 1:04:57.240 --> 1:05:00.479 hip hop was still an underground form of music. 1:05:00.680 --> 1:05:04.640 Because you're in college, did you yourself see the license 1:05:04.720 --> 1:05:08.840 to Ill effect happen at rapid speed? 1:05:09.840 --> 1:05:12.480 License to Ill was an important inflection point. I think 1:05:12.560 --> 1:05:14.880 glad you brought that up, because that happened actually right 1:05:15.080 --> 1:05:18.440 in eighty six, late eighty six, right, so that was 1:05:18.480 --> 1:05:22.160 when I when I it was it was right around 1:05:22.160 --> 1:05:25.360 the time when I met Dave, honestly, and the beginnings 1:05:25.440 --> 1:05:29.400 of what would become the Source was happening. But License 1:05:29.480 --> 1:05:34.760 to Ill was a huge, huge influence on not just me, 1:05:34.960 --> 1:05:37.960 but I mean so many people, you know, were influenced 1:05:38.000 --> 1:05:42.960 by that record. I remember that I was. Actually I 1:05:43.120 --> 1:05:45.840 was so into it that I like even made it 1:05:46.040 --> 1:05:48.600 like a focus of one of my freshman year classes, 1:05:48.720 --> 1:05:51.160 like you got to write a paper about whatever you want, 1:05:51.200 --> 1:05:55.640 and I wrote about License to Ill. And that was 1:05:55.720 --> 1:05:58.720 an important record for me also being a white Jewish 1:05:58.800 --> 1:06:02.600 guy from the city, you know, kind of identifying. But 1:06:02.680 --> 1:06:06.680 the thing is that you know and you later that's 1:06:06.680 --> 1:06:08.520 about this. I was about to say that exact thing. 1:06:08.760 --> 1:06:10.520 Everyone in Philly thought they were Puerto Rican. 1:06:10.560 --> 1:06:12.880 I don't just festing man out of there, because the 1:06:12.960 --> 1:06:15.600 Beastie Groove Mike d sound like he was Puerto Rican. 1:06:15.680 --> 1:06:17.400 You just festing man when you want to hear. 1:06:17.360 --> 1:06:19.960 You right, exactly, And for some reason, everyone that you 1:06:20.160 --> 1:06:21.880 you heard that they were Puerto Rican too, right, because 1:06:21.920 --> 1:06:24.360 everyone in Philly. Everyone in Philly is like, no, nah, 1:06:24.360 --> 1:06:26.520 they Puerto Rican, They perto Rican. And I'm like, uh, 1:06:27.320 --> 1:06:29.280 I guess I didn't know. You know, nobody knew because 1:06:29.280 --> 1:06:32.040 all we had was those Crimson def cham labels with 1:06:32.120 --> 1:06:32.760 no picture on it. 1:06:32.840 --> 1:06:34.600 You know, my science teacher is the one. 1:06:35.400 --> 1:06:37.800 He saw the photo and he's like, hmm, because we 1:06:38.120 --> 1:06:41.920 brought the album to school and we were we were 1:06:41.960 --> 1:06:45.400 obsessed with the whole the backwards eat me thing on 1:06:45.480 --> 1:06:48.600 the airplay wing, Yes, the wing of the album covered. 1:06:49.320 --> 1:06:51.160 And so when he looks at it and he saw 1:06:51.240 --> 1:06:54.440 the name Horowitz, he's like, oh, okay, some of my 1:06:54.560 --> 1:06:55.280 Jewish brothers. 1:06:55.440 --> 1:06:57.720 I was like, Jewish like white. He's like yeah. I 1:06:57.800 --> 1:07:00.720 was like, no, man, white boys, ain't that funky? 1:07:01.880 --> 1:07:04.680 Like literally it took forever, Like when I heard him 1:07:04.720 --> 1:07:07.960 speak on Soul Train, I was like, okay, mister Parrot, 1:07:08.120 --> 1:07:08.600 might be right. 1:07:08.680 --> 1:07:13.120 They what used to get down to mere? What do 1:07:13.160 --> 1:07:15.160 you want to say? I know this now? I know 1:07:15.320 --> 1:07:15.680 this now. 1:07:20.920 --> 1:07:24.800 So how does what we know as the source get created? 1:07:25.200 --> 1:07:28.320 In terms of it's starting out as a newsletter? 1:07:28.560 --> 1:07:30.960 So we we eventually, So we started out with Dave 1:07:31.000 --> 1:07:34.680 and I and two other Harvard students who because they 1:07:34.680 --> 1:07:36.840 were older and we were younger, and they were kind 1:07:36.880 --> 1:07:40.640 of like, you know, still like the sceniority over us. 1:07:41.240 --> 1:07:43.760 But then you know, over time, one of them fell 1:07:43.800 --> 1:07:45.480 off and the other one fell off, and then eventually 1:07:45.520 --> 1:07:48.640 it was just me and Dave. That point, we did 1:07:48.760 --> 1:07:51.320 find that the show was starting to get popular. We 1:07:51.360 --> 1:07:53.720 would get a lot of phone calls like way more 1:07:53.800 --> 1:07:57.160 than any you know, classical music fans aren't known for 1:07:57.360 --> 1:08:07.680 like bringing up the phone lines and make them a blush. 1:08:08.480 --> 1:08:10.880 So we so we were like the people were in 1:08:11.000 --> 1:08:13.880 the station were always like mind blown by the amount 1:08:13.920 --> 1:08:17.479 of calls we were getting. We had competition. There was 1:08:17.600 --> 1:08:20.680 like two or three other college radio rap shows at 1:08:20.720 --> 1:08:22.919 the time, so that was who we saw as our competition. 1:08:23.720 --> 1:08:27.519 Now around this time, I should also mention that I 1:08:27.720 --> 1:08:31.400 also had a desire to be a rapper and heavily 1:08:31.520 --> 1:08:36.320 influenced by the Beastie Boys. Of course, a friend of 1:08:36.360 --> 1:08:40.360 mine from Philly and I started a white rap group 1:08:40.439 --> 1:08:45.400 called b MOC and we were, yeah, we were you know, 1:08:46.040 --> 1:08:47.560 we didn't know what the hell we were doing, but 1:08:48.200 --> 1:08:52.479 we basically somewhere along the line, another friend of ours 1:08:52.520 --> 1:08:56.000 who I think Amir you know Will Be of DJ 1:08:56.200 --> 1:09:00.840 of the Goats, who's one of my childhood lifetime friends. Yes, 1:09:00.960 --> 1:09:04.880 Will Braveman. Yes, I was going to n YU at 1:09:04.920 --> 1:09:08.559 the time, and we were all in college in different colleges, 1:09:09.560 --> 1:09:13.200 and Will met a young man by the name of 1:09:13.280 --> 1:09:18.920 Brett Ratner, and Brett Ratner I wish I never heard 1:09:18.920 --> 1:09:22.200 of him, but anyway, so what happened was whoever that is. Yes, 1:09:22.280 --> 1:09:24.680 so Brett Ratner, who now you know everyone knows as 1:09:24.760 --> 1:09:28.080 a Hollywood guy, me two guy and all that stuff. 1:09:28.880 --> 1:09:33.240 But anyway, he had learned about our existence, heard one 1:09:33.240 --> 1:09:36.840 of our demos, was interested in us. So while the sort, 1:09:36.920 --> 1:09:39.960 while the street beat on w h RB was starting 1:09:40.000 --> 1:09:42.840 to take off, I was also trying to be a rapper. 1:09:42.920 --> 1:09:45.559 So I was trying to write rhymes. I was trying 1:09:45.600 --> 1:09:48.599 to get beats. I was trying to make music. 1:09:49.640 --> 1:09:51.160 How how were your grades? 1:09:52.960 --> 1:09:55.400 Well, you know, as the story goes on, as we 1:09:55.479 --> 1:09:58.280 get deeper into it, you know, like we got through it. 1:09:58.439 --> 1:10:00.880 But I majored in the Source basically, you know, that 1:10:01.080 --> 1:10:02.920 was like what I when I was at Harvard. I 1:10:03.040 --> 1:10:06.160 majored in the Source, no doubt about it. I did. 1:10:06.320 --> 1:10:08.880 I did get good enough grades to get through. But 1:10:09.000 --> 1:10:11.080 I wasn't like the top student or anything because I 1:10:11.240 --> 1:10:13.800 just we were just so focused on the magazine. But 1:10:13.960 --> 1:10:16.280 that was a little bit later. But so leading up 1:10:16.280 --> 1:10:21.400 to You're forgiving, thank you, thank you so so leading 1:10:21.479 --> 1:10:23.920 up to that though, like so I was in This 1:10:24.080 --> 1:10:26.000 is related to your questions how did the Source start? 1:10:26.080 --> 1:10:28.120 So basically I was living in New York City in 1:10:28.160 --> 1:10:31.240 the summer of nineteen eighty eight, I was working for 1:10:31.439 --> 1:10:35.000 Ted Demi and Fab five Freddy at Yo MTV raps 1:10:35.560 --> 1:10:38.600 because I wanted again, I wanted to I was so 1:10:39.439 --> 1:10:41.280 I was just trying to get into the industry no 1:10:41.400 --> 1:10:44.280 matter what, you know. So I had arranged for a 1:10:44.400 --> 1:10:48.000 summer internship to work for you OMTV raps. I'm also 1:10:48.080 --> 1:10:49.840 pursuing my rap career at the same time. 1:10:50.640 --> 1:10:51.519 How did you get in there? 1:10:51.640 --> 1:10:53.880 Like like they like white kid walks through the door, 1:10:53.920 --> 1:10:56.479 They're like, yes youo MTV raps. Like does that that 1:10:56.560 --> 1:10:58.880 seems like a disconnected It was just like or did 1:10:58.920 --> 1:11:01.479 it work? I think if any that was or maybe 1:11:01.520 --> 1:11:01.920 that was the thing. 1:11:01.960 --> 1:11:02.600 I mean, I don't know, I just. 1:11:04.240 --> 1:11:09.120 Yo, yeah, I mean you know, look, let's there was 1:11:09.200 --> 1:11:11.760 always the uniqueness of being white, and sometimes I worked 1:11:11.760 --> 1:11:14.400 in my advantage being easy to you know, the only 1:11:14.640 --> 1:11:20.400 white guy in the room. Sometimes Yeah, but that's that 1:11:20.720 --> 1:11:24.080 was Yeah. In this case, I honestly don't remember. I 1:11:24.120 --> 1:11:26.320 think I just wrote a lot of like mail, like 1:11:26.400 --> 1:11:29.320 you know, pre email. I wrote letters to people and 1:11:29.400 --> 1:11:31.320 I was like, you know, I want to come into 1:11:31.320 --> 1:11:32.920 New York, d DA da DA, And they're like, Okay, 1:11:33.120 --> 1:11:35.960 you come work here. I didn't last long there actually 1:11:36.160 --> 1:11:39.679 because they they didn't treat me well. They they didn't 1:11:39.720 --> 1:11:44.320 respect my my knowledge of music. They didn't understand, they 1:11:44.360 --> 1:11:47.080 didn't know they they treated me as you as low 1:11:47.160 --> 1:11:50.080 as you can get. They they famously they were so 1:11:50.240 --> 1:11:53.080 sick of me spotting my opinions about rap because I 1:11:53.160 --> 1:11:56.040 knew more than them. I really did, not not FAB five. 1:11:56.200 --> 1:11:59.599 But the other guys are working there, they didn't know shit, okay, 1:11:59.640 --> 1:12:01.800 and I walked in and I knew way more about 1:12:01.880 --> 1:12:03.320 music than they did. I knew it. I mean I 1:12:03.520 --> 1:12:05.840 recognized it right away, but they didn't want to hear it. 1:12:06.360 --> 1:12:08.679 So they basically opened a door. It was like something 1:12:08.720 --> 1:12:10.840 out of a movie. You open a door and there's 1:12:10.920 --> 1:12:14.479 a tape. There's a room with like the entire history 1:12:14.520 --> 1:12:16.560 of you MTV raps to that point, like all the 1:12:16.680 --> 1:12:19.479 raw footage is sitting on the floor. They say, hey, 1:12:19.520 --> 1:12:21.800 we got a job for you. Go into that room 1:12:21.960 --> 1:12:24.760 and watch every single tape and wipe down what's on it. 1:12:25.720 --> 1:12:27.280 So they shoved me in a closet. 1:12:27.640 --> 1:12:28.520 What a punishment. 1:12:29.240 --> 1:12:32.639 Yeah, with hundreds of tapes of the very earliest year 1:12:32.760 --> 1:12:37.200 of your MTV raps, and uh, I hated it. I 1:12:37.280 --> 1:12:38.120 also remember, just. 1:12:38.240 --> 1:12:39.920 Just as I'm in heaven, I'm sorry. 1:12:39.920 --> 1:12:42.040 I know, I know it sounds it sounds. It sounds 1:12:42.080 --> 1:12:43.439 like it's not that bad, but I mean, you know, 1:12:43.479 --> 1:12:45.000 I wanted to be where the action was, you know. 1:12:46.160 --> 1:12:49.000 Having the peel potatoes in the cartoon, like yes. 1:12:50.439 --> 1:12:55.040 Potatoes, like an endless job that never with no sunlight, 1:12:55.160 --> 1:12:57.080 you know, just like in the room. So I also 1:12:57.160 --> 1:12:59.360 remember I was in the room the day of that 1:13:00.240 --> 1:13:03.840 the Manifest video from Gang Stars showed up words I 1:13:04.000 --> 1:13:06.360 Manifest and if you remember that, I think that was 1:13:06.400 --> 1:13:09.559 their first video. I believe that was Gangstar's first music video. 1:13:10.080 --> 1:13:11.920 I loved the song. I already knew it because I 1:13:12.240 --> 1:13:16.760 loved everything on Wild Pitch. And I walk in and like, 1:13:16.960 --> 1:13:19.559 so if they pop it in and fab five Freddy's 1:13:19.600 --> 1:13:22.439 in the room, Ted Demi rest in Peace, who was 1:13:22.479 --> 1:13:26.439 the executive producer of you know OMTV raps, And they 1:13:26.560 --> 1:13:29.200 play it and I'm like popping my head, going crazy, 1:13:29.280 --> 1:13:31.920 and I think it was almost like a It was 1:13:31.960 --> 1:13:33.960 almost like just because I liked it so much, they 1:13:34.000 --> 1:13:36.040 wanted to not like it, I swear, And so they 1:13:36.160 --> 1:13:38.840 go and they're like they're like yeah, yeah, I don't 1:13:38.840 --> 1:13:41.479 really like it. That guy's voice, it's just weird. They're like, 1:13:41.520 --> 1:13:43.519 I don't even get it, Like why is he dressed 1:13:43.560 --> 1:13:45.960 like Malcolm X? And I don't even get it, you 1:13:46.000 --> 1:13:47.640 know if you remember you had like the Malcolm X 1:13:47.720 --> 1:13:48.200 glasses on? 1:13:48.360 --> 1:13:49.479 Yeah, remember yeah? 1:13:49.600 --> 1:13:52.360 Yeah? And so they rejected it. They rejected the video. 1:13:53.360 --> 1:13:57.000 They ended up playing it way later, like six months later. 1:13:58.200 --> 1:14:00.680 But at any rate, after all that, I kind of 1:14:00.840 --> 1:14:03.320 like got turned off and I ended up quitting that job. 1:14:04.200 --> 1:14:07.439 But in the meantime, I was still getting records and 1:14:07.600 --> 1:14:11.400 was super super immersed in the music and also making 1:14:11.479 --> 1:14:15.840 music for whatever it's worth. And then Dave meanwhile, and 1:14:16.000 --> 1:14:17.800 at this point now we're getting up to the summer 1:14:17.840 --> 1:14:20.519 of eighty eight, so we had about one year of 1:14:21.720 --> 1:14:25.160 our rap show under our belt. And Dave stayed in 1:14:25.240 --> 1:14:27.720 Boston that summer while I was in New York. And 1:14:27.920 --> 1:14:31.479 Dave had an idea. He was like, hey, man, let's 1:14:31.520 --> 1:14:33.640 do something to promote the radio show. You know, like, 1:14:33.720 --> 1:14:36.080 I got this idea, tell me what you think. And 1:14:36.280 --> 1:14:41.040 he made a one page newsletter called The Source, and 1:14:41.320 --> 1:14:44.280 it was a yellow sheet front and back, and I 1:14:44.400 --> 1:14:47.880 received it in the mail and I was impressed. I 1:14:47.960 --> 1:14:50.439 mean it was very you know, it was very simple. 1:14:50.600 --> 1:14:53.639 You know, it was just literally like one piece of paper. 1:14:54.520 --> 1:14:58.240 But I got it right away. It should be noted 1:14:58.320 --> 1:15:01.840 also that the first rat magazine I ever saw was 1:15:01.920 --> 1:15:05.000 actually from Philly. It was Mike. When I say rat magazine, 1:15:05.000 --> 1:15:08.599 I mean you mentioned the Black Gully, but Mike Elliott, 1:15:08.640 --> 1:15:11.879 do you remember the name of that magazine, Crush magazine. 1:15:12.040 --> 1:15:12.920 It was called Crush. 1:15:13.479 --> 1:15:15.439 He had a not a pay per view show, a 1:15:15.680 --> 1:15:19.519 public access show, right, yes, yes, yes, I remember him 1:15:19.600 --> 1:15:24.240 always advertising Crush magazine, but I never got it. 1:15:24.600 --> 1:15:25.839 So you got this newsletter. 1:15:26.160 --> 1:15:28.519 I had seen one other rat magazine that wasn't word 1:15:28.640 --> 1:15:31.280 up and write on, which were obviously teeny bopper, and 1:15:31.360 --> 1:15:33.960 no one respected those. We all knew that Crush was. 1:15:35.160 --> 1:15:37.400 I mean, maybe they served a purpose. I'm not trying, 1:15:37.439 --> 1:15:40.439 as you know, they definitely came before me, but you know, 1:15:40.520 --> 1:15:43.160 they weren't treating the music, you know, in a serious way. 1:15:43.320 --> 1:15:46.120 Crush was the first publication I saw that was talking 1:15:46.160 --> 1:15:51.519 about real records. And but again it was very it 1:15:51.640 --> 1:15:53.680 wasn't well put together. It was it was it was, 1:15:54.000 --> 1:15:56.160 and it wasn't. It only came out a few issues. 1:15:56.160 --> 1:15:58.880 I don't think it even really lasted that long. So 1:15:59.000 --> 1:16:01.760 I had some French point as to what it could be. 1:16:02.040 --> 1:16:04.160 But that Crush at that time was like I'm the best, 1:16:04.479 --> 1:16:07.880 the only one. I remember. I had the editor of Crush, 1:16:07.880 --> 1:16:11.080 who actually came in New York at that time to visit. 1:16:11.560 --> 1:16:14.800 I met with her. She came to my home at 1:16:14.840 --> 1:16:16.479 that time because I guess I wanted to write for her, 1:16:16.600 --> 1:16:20.800 maybe at any rate. So I did receive that one issue, 1:16:22.160 --> 1:16:26.400 and I thought it had potential. I went back to 1:16:27.000 --> 1:16:32.320 college in the fall of eighty eight and Dave and 1:16:32.360 --> 1:16:35.720 I connected and right away we became business partners. And 1:16:36.520 --> 1:16:38.439 you know, this is the truth. And anyone you know 1:16:38.479 --> 1:16:40.519 all the rumors about how the Source started and this 1:16:40.640 --> 1:16:43.360 and that. Dave and I took one hundred dollars each 1:16:43.960 --> 1:16:46.439 and put two hundred dollars into a bank account, and 1:16:46.560 --> 1:16:48.320 that was the beginning of the Source. It was Dave 1:16:48.360 --> 1:16:51.479 and I put in one hundred dollars each, and I 1:16:51.640 --> 1:16:55.000 became the editor in chief, in charge of all the content, 1:16:55.120 --> 1:16:57.960 and Dave became the publisher in charge of all the 1:16:58.240 --> 1:17:02.160 BIS magazine, which includes selling ads, which as I mentioned, 1:17:02.160 --> 1:17:05.519 he had a particular skill at. And he turned out 1:17:05.520 --> 1:17:08.920 to be really really good at that. So that was 1:17:09.000 --> 1:17:11.080 the beginning of the Source. Now, the Source was initially 1:17:11.200 --> 1:17:16.040 designed to promote our college rap radio show. Uh so 1:17:16.240 --> 1:17:21.280 we it was all about it was charts, some news, 1:17:21.880 --> 1:17:25.679 and it was very focused on Boston radio, which Boston 1:17:25.800 --> 1:17:29.519 community and the hip hop the fledging, very small hip 1:17:29.560 --> 1:17:33.519 hop community there. The first few issues were kind of 1:17:33.560 --> 1:17:37.000 along those lines, and then we started distributing them in 1:17:37.280 --> 1:17:41.160 local Boston rap record stores like Skippy Whites is the 1:17:41.200 --> 1:17:45.519 most famous one. And that was the very beginning. And 1:17:45.680 --> 1:17:50.280 then you know, pretty quickly as we started publishing, we 1:17:50.360 --> 1:17:54.000 published our second issue, which had I think six pages. 1:17:55.240 --> 1:17:57.599 It was like a four It was like four pages 1:17:57.680 --> 1:17:59.680 with like one sheet in the middle, so it was 1:17:59.720 --> 1:18:02.200 like total of six pages. That one had a picture 1:18:02.240 --> 1:18:04.360 of kras The in the corner. 1:18:04.840 --> 1:18:07.840 At the time when you're forming this, was there a 1:18:07.960 --> 1:18:11.280 mission statement or a mantra like were you guys like 1:18:11.439 --> 1:18:19.519 what was your besides just promoting the radio station. Was 1:18:19.600 --> 1:18:24.400 there a desire to see like critical think pieces written or. 1:18:25.760 --> 1:18:28.760 So in good question? So in the beginning, I think 1:18:28.840 --> 1:18:31.439 we saw ourselves as more of a trade magazine, like 1:18:31.600 --> 1:18:36.280 that was the show. Yeah, Like the initial incarnation of 1:18:36.400 --> 1:18:40.000 the source. The first tagline was the voice of the 1:18:40.120 --> 1:18:43.320 rap music industry. That was how that's how we first 1:18:43.479 --> 1:18:47.439 framed it. So for the first year or two, I 1:18:47.520 --> 1:18:49.760 mean maybe year and a half, the first like even 1:18:49.880 --> 1:18:53.400 ten issues or so or eight issues there was and 1:18:53.479 --> 1:18:55.880 we weren't every month, and we were doing it. We 1:18:55.920 --> 1:18:57.960 were totally just running it on our own. We had 1:18:58.040 --> 1:19:02.480 no education in this. We never took a class on journalism, 1:19:02.560 --> 1:19:04.000 We never took a class on how to run a 1:19:04.040 --> 1:19:06.680 business any of that stuff. We just felt it out 1:19:06.720 --> 1:19:09.759 and did it all, you know, trial and error basically. 1:19:11.439 --> 1:19:15.639 But pretty soon, you know, initially we were positioning ourselves 1:19:15.720 --> 1:19:18.120 as the voice of the rap music industry. Now I 1:19:18.240 --> 1:19:21.479 remember now a year later, the summer of eighty nine, 1:19:21.600 --> 1:19:23.400 I was back in New York City in the same 1:19:23.560 --> 1:19:26.680 apartment which is with will with will Be, and it 1:19:26.800 --> 1:19:29.760 was right by NYU and I got a call and 1:19:30.080 --> 1:19:33.479 it was now, now it's eighty nine, so everyone knows 1:19:33.520 --> 1:19:35.960 who Harry Allen is because I'm going to my media 1:19:36.000 --> 1:19:39.519 assassin that voice. Don't believe the hype, you know that. 1:19:39.800 --> 1:19:42.680 And so I picked up my phone and there's a 1:19:42.760 --> 1:19:46.000 message from a voicemail from Harry Allen and he was 1:19:46.080 --> 1:19:50.960 like calling for Jonathan Scheckter. He's like, I see you 1:19:51.120 --> 1:19:55.280 calling yourself the voice of the rap music industry. He's like, 1:19:55.400 --> 1:19:58.040 don't you know there are many voices of the rap 1:19:58.160 --> 1:20:01.439 music industry. I'm a foioice of the rap music industry. 1:20:01.720 --> 1:20:04.200 Chuck Dee is a voice of the rap music industry. 1:20:04.600 --> 1:20:08.560 And I was It wasn't necessarily a bad call, but 1:20:08.720 --> 1:20:10.000 it was kind of a challenging. 1:20:10.439 --> 1:20:12.559 It was a very Harry Allen phone call. 1:20:12.760 --> 1:20:15.920 A heavy Harry Allen type phone call, but he was calling, 1:20:16.520 --> 1:20:19.720 so it wasn't like necessarily bad. So I called him 1:20:19.720 --> 1:20:23.200 back and I engaged him in conversation and we made 1:20:23.240 --> 1:20:30.280 plans for him to write something pretty early on. But yeah, 1:20:30.479 --> 1:20:33.400 that got me thinking a little bit about who we 1:20:33.479 --> 1:20:36.800 were and what we were doing. And then following that, 1:20:36.960 --> 1:20:38.679 I'm kind of compressing a lot of you know, there's 1:20:38.680 --> 1:20:41.679 a lot of things in between, but basically, at some point, 1:20:41.840 --> 1:20:46.439 I think in eighty nine, we changed our tag to 1:20:47.160 --> 1:20:50.680 the Magazine of Hip Hop Music, Culture and Politics, and 1:20:50.800 --> 1:20:53.280 that was when we made the decision to be a 1:20:53.439 --> 1:20:57.880 consumer facing magazine and not an industry facing magazine. Now, granted, 1:20:57.920 --> 1:21:01.640 we were still very small and were doing it all ourselves. 1:21:01.760 --> 1:21:04.880 I mean when I say ourselves, I mean literally Dave 1:21:04.960 --> 1:21:08.360 and I were like all hours of the night, you know, 1:21:08.960 --> 1:21:12.080 doing every single thing that you see in the magazine. 1:21:12.479 --> 1:21:15.720 I mean we were laying out the magazine on the 1:21:16.000 --> 1:21:19.599 very first version of of an Apple Macintosh, the very 1:21:19.800 --> 1:21:22.559 very first you know, well the rectangle you know, take 1:21:24.200 --> 1:21:28.120 exactly like we were using Quark Express and page Maker, 1:21:28.160 --> 1:21:33.160 which were the very first desktop publishing software, and like 1:21:33.280 --> 1:21:35.599 we would it would be like yes, like you would 1:21:35.640 --> 1:21:37.720 take like, okay, we want to put a picture there. 1:21:38.040 --> 1:21:40.080 Oh wait, no, move it to the right. So you 1:21:40.200 --> 1:21:42.080 move it to the right, and then you have to 1:21:42.160 --> 1:21:45.160 wait for the entire page to rebuild itself. It would 1:21:45.160 --> 1:21:48.559 take like an hour to do one thing. I mean 1:21:48.640 --> 1:21:51.559 it was so slow because it was literally and also 1:21:51.680 --> 1:21:54.120 you had to those it was those hard floppies, so 1:21:54.160 --> 1:21:57.560 you had to keep like insert disc A, inskirt disc B, 1:21:57.800 --> 1:21:59.320 insert disc you know what I mean. It was like 1:21:59.479 --> 1:22:03.680 this incredibly time consuming slow process, but we were doing it. 1:22:04.320 --> 1:22:05.920 You know, we would get on our hands and knees 1:22:06.040 --> 1:22:10.599 and sort the magazine. By the time we were mailing out. 1:22:10.680 --> 1:22:12.519 Now at this point we had a larger mailing list 1:22:13.160 --> 1:22:14.680 and we would get on our hands and knees and 1:22:14.760 --> 1:22:17.280 sort the magazine by zip code, put them in a 1:22:17.320 --> 1:22:19.439 rubber band, and put a sticker with the zip code 1:22:19.479 --> 1:22:22.960 on that pile of magazines. So it was like literally 1:22:23.080 --> 1:22:25.479 every little thing that you had to do, we were 1:22:25.520 --> 1:22:26.320 doing it ourselves. 1:22:26.680 --> 1:22:30.000 I mean, how were you able to in terms of 1:22:31.360 --> 1:22:35.840 getting content, Like, did you know all the publicists at 1:22:36.400 --> 1:22:39.519 def jam or Jive or whoever was hip hop friendly 1:22:39.560 --> 1:22:42.719 at the time, did you like, how are you able 1:22:42.880 --> 1:22:48.040 to get FaceTime with them and sort of convince them that, 1:22:49.240 --> 1:22:52.240 you know, in addition to your black beats and your 1:22:52.880 --> 1:22:57.920 right ones, that we should also be a priority stop. 1:22:58.840 --> 1:23:01.560 Early on, I think we were well received by the 1:23:02.000 --> 1:23:05.920 industry people like publicists and marketing people and stuff like that. 1:23:06.560 --> 1:23:10.320 I think, you know, there was never any I mean, 1:23:10.360 --> 1:23:11.640 you know, once in a while we would have to 1:23:11.680 --> 1:23:15.200 pursue somebody, but for the most part, once we established 1:23:15.200 --> 1:23:18.840 ourselves with the first maybe five or six issues, like, 1:23:19.080 --> 1:23:21.479 people wanted to send us records, so we started receiving 1:23:21.520 --> 1:23:24.439 all the records, all the press kids, and then the 1:23:24.479 --> 1:23:27.240 harder part was getting you know, interviews, getting the artists 1:23:28.760 --> 1:23:31.720 and but yeah, that was just basically doing you know, 1:23:32.000 --> 1:23:34.759 in pre internet days, I was all working the phones, 1:23:35.960 --> 1:23:39.000 getting people, you know, setting up interviews which are also 1:23:39.160 --> 1:23:44.519 frequently conducted over the phone, and yeah, and then starting 1:23:44.560 --> 1:23:47.240 to meet more writers and that kind of thing. And 1:23:47.320 --> 1:23:50.439 then I should mention, you know, very early on, relatively 1:23:50.479 --> 1:23:54.960 early on, around eighty nine ninety, we met two other 1:23:55.040 --> 1:23:58.240 Harvard students. One of them is James Bernard, who was 1:23:58.280 --> 1:24:00.600 actually a Harvard Law student, and the other one was 1:24:00.800 --> 1:24:03.160 Ed Young who was an undergraduate but he was a 1:24:03.280 --> 1:24:07.080 year older than us, and Ed had experience working in 1:24:07.160 --> 1:24:09.760 the magazine industry. He had taken a year off and 1:24:09.880 --> 1:24:12.680 worked for The New Republic, which is a like a 1:24:12.840 --> 1:24:19.000 political sort of magazine. And James was a Harvard law 1:24:19.040 --> 1:24:22.160 student who was actually in Harvard Law at the same 1:24:22.240 --> 1:24:28.720 time as Barack Obama. And James was more on the 1:24:28.880 --> 1:24:32.920 editorial side, so he was, you know, a San Francisco 1:24:33.280 --> 1:24:36.960 kind of black activist type person who had a lot 1:24:37.000 --> 1:24:40.760 of political views. He was into the music too, but 1:24:40.920 --> 1:24:43.560 you know, that was kind of my area of expertise, 1:24:43.640 --> 1:24:47.120 and James kind of took on the socio political side 1:24:47.120 --> 1:24:50.040 of the magazine very early, and we kind of like 1:24:50.120 --> 1:24:52.240 teamed up. So now we got four of US. So 1:24:52.320 --> 1:24:54.000 now instead of two of us, is four of us 1:24:54.960 --> 1:24:58.519 and we're still basically doing everything ourselves throughout junior and 1:24:58.600 --> 1:25:00.280 senior year of college. 1:25:05.400 --> 1:25:09.479 What was the first glossy non newsletter issue? What was 1:25:09.720 --> 1:25:10.719 LLL that first issue? 1:25:11.720 --> 1:25:13.519 I believe there was a picture of LLL with all 1:25:13.560 --> 1:25:16.760 the girls right surrounded by girls, I believe, so, yeah, yeah, 1:25:16.760 --> 1:25:18.400 it's like from a video shoot. There's a picture of 1:25:18.680 --> 1:25:21.439 ll It's kind of a shitty, blurry picture, but yeah, yeah, 1:25:21.560 --> 1:25:24.200 that was I think our first color cover. I believe 1:25:24.280 --> 1:25:28.360 that was our first full color, glossy like magazine. Basically, Yeah, 1:25:28.400 --> 1:25:29.280 I think you're right about that. 1:25:29.640 --> 1:25:31.720 At what point did you realize this was lightning in 1:25:31.760 --> 1:25:32.400 a bottle for you? 1:25:33.520 --> 1:25:37.000 You know, I think throughout our college, the second two 1:25:37.120 --> 1:25:39.680 years of college for us, which would have been you know, 1:25:39.760 --> 1:25:43.080 eighty nine to ninety, was when I began it began 1:25:43.160 --> 1:25:45.760 to be clear that we were we had something that 1:25:45.960 --> 1:25:49.639 was legitimately like, you know, a product that people would love. 1:25:49.880 --> 1:25:52.960 And now I should say, like, you know, for me 1:25:53.280 --> 1:25:57.720 my influence. There was a two very famous newsstands in 1:25:57.840 --> 1:26:02.040 Harvard Square, really famous like huge nuda stands. I sold 1:26:02.120 --> 1:26:04.880 like every magazine from the Whole World, and I would 1:26:04.920 --> 1:26:09.040 go there every week and I would read New Music Express, 1:26:09.120 --> 1:26:12.880 an Emmy, Melody Maker, two British magazines. I would look 1:26:12.880 --> 1:26:15.560 at Spin, I would look at Rolling Stone, and I 1:26:15.600 --> 1:26:17.200 would look at The Village Voice. So those are like 1:26:17.560 --> 1:26:21.640 my five anchors, all of them to varying degrees. Not 1:26:21.760 --> 1:26:25.280 Rolling Stone, but Spin, with John Leland was dabbling in 1:26:25.360 --> 1:26:27.960 hip hop. The Village Voice was kind of the main 1:26:28.160 --> 1:26:32.240 voice of hip hop journalism. You had Nelson George who 1:26:32.320 --> 1:26:36.000 started with Billboard obviously, you had Harry Allen, you had 1:26:37.439 --> 1:26:39.880 who am I forgetting? There's so many great writers from 1:26:39.920 --> 1:26:44.960 that era, uh, Greg Tait, Yes, exactly. So those these guys, 1:26:45.240 --> 1:26:47.960 you know, were my who came before me, you know, 1:26:48.040 --> 1:26:51.679 they were my inspiration. But really it was Rolling Stone 1:26:51.720 --> 1:26:54.000 that I was looking at, not because I loved what 1:26:54.080 --> 1:26:56.640 they were covering, although like I said, I did love 1:26:56.760 --> 1:26:59.479 rock music too, but it was more so because they 1:26:59.479 --> 1:27:02.720 were the They were the best put together publication. They 1:27:03.120 --> 1:27:06.679 everyone loves. Everyone knows who's on the cover of Rolling Stone. 1:27:07.280 --> 1:27:10.080 So I would study Rolling Stone more so from a 1:27:10.200 --> 1:27:13.200 structural point of view to try to like pick up 1:27:13.240 --> 1:27:15.599 whatever ideas I could. I would read the other ones 1:27:15.960 --> 1:27:18.200 more for a content point of view, to try to 1:27:18.240 --> 1:27:22.360 get references and records, and Nmy in particular was great 1:27:22.400 --> 1:27:25.160 because Tim Westwood, who later became a good friend of mine, 1:27:25.439 --> 1:27:27.760 would have a chart every week that was so far 1:27:27.840 --> 1:27:30.879 ahead of America it was crazy, Like he would get records, 1:27:31.080 --> 1:27:33.599 put them on a chart, and he would list ten 1:27:33.680 --> 1:27:36.080 records that no one in New York or Affiliate or 1:27:36.120 --> 1:27:38.760 Boston had ever even heard yet. So he was so 1:27:38.880 --> 1:27:41.040 far ahead of the curve. So that was a great 1:27:41.360 --> 1:27:45.800 influence on kind of all those things were influences for me. 1:27:46.760 --> 1:27:48.720 But then once we started, you know, putting some of 1:27:48.760 --> 1:27:51.799 those things into practice with some of these early issues 1:27:51.800 --> 1:27:54.479 of The Source, we'd get a little bit better. We'd 1:27:54.479 --> 1:27:57.519 add more pages, we'd add more color. There was one 1:27:57.680 --> 1:28:00.600 very important issue where we put we put Malcolm X 1:28:00.680 --> 1:28:03.439 on the cover right in the midst of you know, 1:28:03.560 --> 1:28:06.320 when when that when he was like, you know, a 1:28:06.439 --> 1:28:10.719 major figure in hip hop culture, you know, through Public 1:28:10.880 --> 1:28:14.519 Enemy and all the other artists talking about him. So 1:28:14.600 --> 1:28:16.680 we were doing things like that to try to you know, 1:28:16.760 --> 1:28:18.840 we wanted to get attention, but we also felt that 1:28:19.000 --> 1:28:22.280 that was reflecting what was happening in the in the culture. 1:28:23.320 --> 1:28:28.000 So the ice Cube Issue ten, Issue of the Source 1:28:28.560 --> 1:28:32.840 is where I believe the myth of the Source, the 1:28:32.960 --> 1:28:36.000 legend of the Source, the idea of the Source, and 1:28:36.120 --> 1:28:40.720 the Source as we know it, all five of those variations. 1:28:42.640 --> 1:28:45.280 No, I think that's when it came alive with. 1:28:46.040 --> 1:28:49.639 So you have to know that at the rate where 1:28:49.680 --> 1:28:54.760 you're giving the albums ratings, yeah, that that was going 1:28:54.840 --> 1:28:57.160 to spark something in the industry. 1:28:57.840 --> 1:29:00.280 How are you guys like for that summer issue? All right? 1:29:00.320 --> 1:29:03.000 For those who don't know, I think issue ten was 1:29:03.040 --> 1:29:07.040 ice Cube on the cover. This is like late spring 1:29:07.200 --> 1:29:11.519 of nineteen ninety and they're pretty much going to review 1:29:12.640 --> 1:29:15.160 every album that will come out in the summer of 1:29:15.240 --> 1:29:22.639 nineteen ninety. Yes, and the opinions. Again, before the Source, 1:29:23.320 --> 1:29:25.680 you just got blurbs and mentioned you really didn't get 1:29:25.760 --> 1:29:30.720 much on like quality. So it's not like if right 1:29:30.800 --> 1:29:33.960 On magazine is talking about Michael Jackson's Off the Wall record, 1:29:34.439 --> 1:29:38.519 they're going to offer anything really critical to how important 1:29:38.520 --> 1:29:40.000 this is. It'll just be like, hey, as a new 1:29:40.080 --> 1:29:41.960 or a single, don't stop to you done and rock 1:29:42.040 --> 1:29:42.200 with you? 1:29:42.439 --> 1:29:42.880 No, no, no, no no. 1:29:43.000 --> 1:29:45.000 He's going to on tour with his brothers, Like you 1:29:45.240 --> 1:29:49.880 just basically got like bullet point facts. You never got opinions, 1:29:50.560 --> 1:29:54.200 and this is the first time that we're seeing opinions. 1:29:54.920 --> 1:29:57.840 First of all, we learned what five mics were. And 1:29:57.920 --> 1:30:00.759 that's the issue where I believe, and I'm going off memory, 1:30:00.800 --> 1:30:03.120 this is how the devoter I was. I know that 1:30:03.360 --> 1:30:09.240 Edutainment by BDP got five. I know that America's most 1:30:09.280 --> 1:30:10.720 wanted ice cube got five. 1:30:12.320 --> 1:30:13.200 Yes, I know that. 1:30:14.800 --> 1:30:18.280 Eric being Rockiem's let the Rhythm hit Him got five 1:30:19.479 --> 1:30:25.040 and Edutate I said, Editainment right, yes, Edutainment Americans. Oh 1:30:25.080 --> 1:30:28.439 oh people, uh, tribe, people's instinctive travels in the past 1:30:28.479 --> 1:30:31.839 of rhythm. It's weird enough because even with those four records, 1:30:32.720 --> 1:30:35.360 I could see rock Kim and BDP like, okay, okay, 1:30:35.400 --> 1:30:36.800 they've released another classic record. 1:30:36.880 --> 1:30:37.240 I see. 1:30:37.920 --> 1:30:40.080 I didn't know much about Tribe, and I was happy 1:30:40.080 --> 1:30:42.799 because I was like anyone under that day La soul umbrella. 1:30:42.840 --> 1:30:46.599 I'm happy to see that there's more zaniness coming from 1:30:46.640 --> 1:30:50.200 that corner of the world. And of course I instantly 1:30:50.280 --> 1:30:52.519 knew that the cute thing was classic, because you know 1:30:52.640 --> 1:30:56.160 that's that was like I had it. However, the most 1:30:56.240 --> 1:31:00.439 shocking review of that whole issue where you guys, I 1:31:00.479 --> 1:31:02.120 think went through maybe twenty records. 1:31:02.160 --> 1:31:02.600 I don't know. 1:31:04.320 --> 1:31:09.400 You guys gave Fear of a Black Planet a very 1:31:09.600 --> 1:31:13.320 simple three and a half stars, which by that point 1:31:14.080 --> 1:31:18.960 every critic was just go goa over anything public of 1:31:19.080 --> 1:31:23.479 me did. And I never thought I see the day 1:31:23.520 --> 1:31:27.520 where someone would offer, well, wait a minute, let's reconsider 1:31:27.600 --> 1:31:33.439 that and gave like actual You know, I'm very much 1:31:33.560 --> 1:31:39.080 influenced until maybe last ten years. I was very much 1:31:39.160 --> 1:31:44.040 influenced by what a reputable critic would say about an album. 1:31:44.760 --> 1:31:48.559 When I saw that, I was like, yo're they're trying 1:31:48.560 --> 1:31:52.040 to make a statement here, like it's not burning a bridge, 1:31:52.120 --> 1:31:54.920 Like three and a half is not bad, but it wasn't. 1:31:55.520 --> 1:31:58.280 It wasn't the high praise that America's most warned got 1:31:58.400 --> 1:32:00.840 or that sort of thing, and like, but you guys 1:32:00.960 --> 1:32:02.919 were just fearless. 1:32:03.880 --> 1:32:05.320 Do you think which do you think was a better 1:32:05.360 --> 1:32:08.800 album in retrospect nation, I mean, Fear of a Black 1:32:08.840 --> 1:32:10.360 Planet or America's Most Wanted? 1:32:10.680 --> 1:32:13.200 Oh come on, stop playing the first three songs on 1:32:13.280 --> 1:32:15.960 a mirror. Here's the funny thing. Here's the funny thing. 1:32:16.120 --> 1:32:18.680 So now now that I know, soup the nuts on 1:32:18.880 --> 1:32:22.240 how that album got made. Yes, I do know that 1:32:22.600 --> 1:32:26.200 the true all star lineup of the Bond Squad, meaning 1:32:27.280 --> 1:32:30.840 both both Sockles, Sadler and. 1:32:32.800 --> 1:32:33.840 Chuck. Yeah. 1:32:34.520 --> 1:32:37.479 So it's almost like I really considered America's most wanted 1:32:37.920 --> 1:32:41.840 the first three songs, even though that entire album is 1:32:41.960 --> 1:32:46.679 mind blowing for me. It's almost like it's I consider 1:32:46.760 --> 1:32:49.760 the first three songs almost its own world, and then 1:32:49.800 --> 1:32:51.600 when you get to once Upon in the projects to 1:32:51.640 --> 1:32:53.880 the rest, I considered that like another album. 1:32:54.040 --> 1:32:56.880 But I could see that, I could see that. 1:32:57.280 --> 1:32:59.880 You're absolutely I mean, you're you're right. 1:33:00.360 --> 1:33:03.680 I think had we not receive Terror Dome and Fight 1:33:03.800 --> 1:33:08.559 the Power previously, then we could see it as, yes, just. 1:33:08.600 --> 1:33:11.280 As equal to nation and millionaires. 1:33:11.280 --> 1:33:14.040 But you guys kind of taught me that, like retrospect 1:33:14.160 --> 1:33:19.960 soundtrack songs making appearances on an album long after the fact, 1:33:20.000 --> 1:33:23.120 that it doesn't count. But I mean it, It wasn't 1:33:23.200 --> 1:33:27.799 snark whatsoever, but that rating let me know how serious 1:33:27.960 --> 1:33:34.040 you guys were about music journalism. Did you guys realize 1:33:34.120 --> 1:33:39.280 at that point that you are about to enter a 1:33:39.680 --> 1:33:42.600 very very slow game of chicken with the industry in 1:33:42.720 --> 1:33:46.519 terms of, like, now there's expectations of what my mic 1:33:46.560 --> 1:33:47.559 should be there' should be. 1:33:48.920 --> 1:33:52.839 You know, like set a standard, yes, set a standard 1:33:52.880 --> 1:33:53.920 that we never had before. 1:33:54.320 --> 1:33:57.080 Right, Okay, So I I first of all, thanks for 1:33:57.120 --> 1:34:00.559 your compliments. I understand and agree with what you're saying 1:34:00.640 --> 1:34:05.040 in that we were the first publication really to be 1:34:05.280 --> 1:34:07.320 critical of rap, but not in a but in a 1:34:07.520 --> 1:34:10.479 meaningful way and coming from a place where we we 1:34:10.640 --> 1:34:14.040 loved wrap, you know, we wanted to it was really 1:34:14.160 --> 1:34:15.520 it wasn't really that complicated. 1:34:15.640 --> 1:34:15.880 It was. 1:34:16.080 --> 1:34:18.080 It was once we came up with the idea for 1:34:18.160 --> 1:34:21.040 the ratings. And I don't remember exactly what issue that was. 1:34:21.120 --> 1:34:22.639 It could have that could have been the first issue 1:34:22.640 --> 1:34:23.880 where that happened. I don't recall. 1:34:24.080 --> 1:34:26.519 I think the l issue was the first issue with 1:34:27.520 --> 1:34:29.880 before mis it was like records or broken it. 1:34:30.240 --> 1:34:32.040 It was like an exploding record. Yeah. And then it 1:34:32.120 --> 1:34:35.439 became Mikes. Yeah. And around that time I also met 1:34:35.680 --> 1:34:40.400 another early Source staffer named Reginald C. Dennis. He was 1:34:40.439 --> 1:34:44.200 a Harlem based hip hop head who showed up in 1:34:44.280 --> 1:34:47.799 a three piece suit when he came for his first interview. 1:34:48.760 --> 1:34:50.600 I was wearing like a like a T shirt and 1:34:50.720 --> 1:34:52.880 jeans and a baseball hat and like you know, in 1:34:53.040 --> 1:34:56.080 walks like this, guy were in a suit, and uh, 1:34:56.400 --> 1:34:58.960 we hit it off, and because you know, we we 1:34:59.120 --> 1:35:03.360 bonded over rap music and we hit it off, and 1:35:03.520 --> 1:35:07.880 Reggie became kind of our first music editor, and that 1:35:08.360 --> 1:35:13.400 most of the ratings happened under his tenure. I mean, 1:35:13.439 --> 1:35:16.479 I was the editor in chief and James Bernard was 1:35:16.600 --> 1:35:20.639 like an important managing editor. Also, I should mention Chris Wilder, 1:35:20.800 --> 1:35:24.880 my lifelong friend, another Philadelphia guy. He's the guy that 1:35:25.000 --> 1:35:26.639 kind of really brought me. He's the guy that brought 1:35:26.680 --> 1:35:29.000 me to Rubber Park. He was the guy that introduced 1:35:29.040 --> 1:35:33.160 me to hip hop culture in a real way. He 1:35:33.360 --> 1:35:35.760 was part of our staff as well, another editor there. 1:35:36.920 --> 1:35:39.400 And during that time, that was when you know, okay, 1:35:39.479 --> 1:35:41.800 so we moved nineteen ninety It's a great turning point 1:35:41.800 --> 1:35:44.920 because that was when we basically graduated from college. We 1:35:45.040 --> 1:35:48.080 moved the business in New York City. I remember literally 1:35:48.200 --> 1:35:50.920 listening to America's Most Wanted on the drive from Boston 1:35:50.960 --> 1:35:53.439 to New York, like that was like the newest album 1:35:53.560 --> 1:35:59.040 at that moment. And we moved into five ninety four Broadway, 1:35:59.200 --> 1:36:02.240 which was right up Broadway in Houston in New York City. 1:36:02.880 --> 1:36:05.639 Before I without even realizing, we were in the perfect 1:36:05.800 --> 1:36:09.120 perfect place for the magazine. I mean, the reason we 1:36:09.240 --> 1:36:13.519 chose that building was because Bill Stephanie and Hank Shockley 1:36:13.760 --> 1:36:17.280 were actually friends of ours. I had met Bill Stephanie 1:36:17.320 --> 1:36:20.879 at some point along the way, and they had Soul Records, 1:36:20.960 --> 1:36:23.680 which was kind of post public Enemy. 1:36:24.000 --> 1:36:27.519 Sounds of urban listens, correct, and they were always good 1:36:27.560 --> 1:36:29.400 for an acronym that's correct. 1:36:29.479 --> 1:36:31.240 Yes, and they were. And Bill, as you know, it 1:36:31.320 --> 1:36:34.320 was one of the greatest guys of all time. And 1:36:34.479 --> 1:36:36.800 so he brought us in and he's like, hey, you know, 1:36:36.920 --> 1:36:40.040 there's His office was in the same building, so he said, hey, 1:36:40.120 --> 1:36:41.760 you know, there's room in this building. I know, though, 1:36:41.800 --> 1:36:45.760 where's the location five ninety four Broadway Broadway in Houston. 1:36:45.680 --> 1:36:49.200 The same place where October ninety four happened. 1:36:49.600 --> 1:36:54.800 All of it happened, Yes, for Broadway yep, So basically yes, 1:36:54.880 --> 1:36:57.880 So that was nineteen ninety so we moved the business there. 1:36:58.120 --> 1:37:02.120 In the beginning, we had one room and it was 1:37:02.560 --> 1:37:06.640 about nine ten people, and we had like literal it 1:37:06.720 --> 1:37:08.320 was like something out of a cartoon. It was like 1:37:08.760 --> 1:37:11.200 there was like one room with like six phones and 1:37:11.320 --> 1:37:13.920 nine people and they're like the cords would be crossed 1:37:13.920 --> 1:37:15.800 in the middle of the room, and there was nowhere 1:37:15.880 --> 1:37:17.560 to hide. It was like you were just everyone was 1:37:17.600 --> 1:37:20.439 hearing everything, and it was just kind of like a chaos. 1:37:20.640 --> 1:37:23.360 And then after a few months of that, we upgraded 1:37:23.400 --> 1:37:25.560 to like a little bit of a bigger space with 1:37:25.720 --> 1:37:29.080 like several rooms, and then at some point we divided 1:37:29.080 --> 1:37:30.919 it intot of like business and editorial. 1:37:32.000 --> 1:37:34.360 I was going to say, uh, one of your one 1:37:34.400 --> 1:37:38.360 of your star players bringing to this show. Dream Hampton, 1:37:38.800 --> 1:37:44.519 of course, has recently created possibly one of the most 1:37:44.960 --> 1:37:49.280 mind blowing, blowing ist documentaries I've seen as of late, 1:37:50.120 --> 1:37:53.080 entitled It Was All a Dream, where I mean essentially 1:37:53.920 --> 1:37:56.280 her years as a n why she used student she 1:37:56.439 --> 1:38:01.120 basically just always kept eight camera and no matter where 1:38:01.280 --> 1:38:04.479 she was, and she has all of these magic moments. 1:38:04.520 --> 1:38:08.679 And there's a moment where she is in the office 1:38:08.720 --> 1:38:12.799 of what I assume the storied Mind Squad or whoever 1:38:14.040 --> 1:38:18.320 you know the source starting ten and literally like just 1:38:18.400 --> 1:38:21.680 to peep in that world for you know, it's all 1:38:21.760 --> 1:38:23.519 of fourteen fifteen seconds. 1:38:23.600 --> 1:38:28.080 But I always wondered, you know, what that environment was like. 1:38:28.560 --> 1:38:30.160 I had the same reaction I saw A dream was 1:38:30.200 --> 1:38:32.000 kind enough to show me a screening of the film, 1:38:32.720 --> 1:38:36.599 and yeah, it was I had never seen that footage. 1:38:36.840 --> 1:38:40.040 That was my first time seeing that footage of it 1:38:40.200 --> 1:38:42.160 was like, I think it was around ninety two ninety 1:38:42.200 --> 1:38:45.400 three ish, and she's in the office with a camera. 1:38:45.520 --> 1:38:47.760 I remember that she was around with a camera, but 1:38:47.800 --> 1:38:50.479 I had never seen the footage until very recently. But 1:38:50.600 --> 1:38:53.120 it is a great film. I definitely highly recommend that 1:38:53.240 --> 1:38:54.000 people watch. 1:38:53.880 --> 1:39:00.040 It once word gets around. How do you guys know who. 1:39:01.840 --> 1:39:05.839 Is reputable in terms of like their their writing skills 1:39:06.080 --> 1:39:08.400 or their their knowledge of the music. 1:39:09.240 --> 1:39:11.600 So some people already had a name because they had 1:39:11.640 --> 1:39:13.960 written for other places, and that would be you know, 1:39:14.200 --> 1:39:17.320 the names I mentioned, like Nelson, George, Harry Allen. Then 1:39:17.360 --> 1:39:21.320 there were people that came up organically because either they 1:39:21.360 --> 1:39:24.000 were friends of a friend or they literally just showed 1:39:24.080 --> 1:39:28.080 up at our office one day. I don't recall Bones Malone. 1:39:30.120 --> 1:39:32.439 Malone is an example of someone who showed up, but 1:39:32.479 --> 1:39:36.160 he had already had some some some bylines in I 1:39:36.240 --> 1:39:38.240 think in Spin or possibly other places. He had a 1:39:38.400 --> 1:39:41.800 very distinctive writing style. Bones wrote, you know, with his 1:39:41.880 --> 1:39:47.120 own language, basically if you remember Dream Dream, I don't 1:39:47.160 --> 1:39:50.080 recall how Dream showed up, but she did show up 1:39:50.160 --> 1:39:52.760 at some point. I don't remember how she entered our world, 1:39:53.360 --> 1:39:57.760 but there she was, this brilliant woman, and we needed 1:39:57.800 --> 1:40:00.599 women voices to be honest, and we were pretty much 1:40:00.600 --> 1:40:05.680 a very male heavy operation, and I knew in my 1:40:05.800 --> 1:40:08.959 heart that we needed more women, and so I immediately 1:40:09.000 --> 1:40:12.720 assigned her her first writing for us, which was to 1:40:12.840 --> 1:40:15.400 review h W A hose with attitude. 1:40:15.840 --> 1:40:18.960 I remember, yeah, and so one and a half mics. 1:40:19.439 --> 1:40:23.759 She gave it like one mic or something. Yes, exactly exactly, 1:40:24.120 --> 1:40:27.880 But that was necessary. That was a necessary step because 1:40:27.880 --> 1:40:29.880 we had to put it in. We put in perspective 1:40:29.960 --> 1:40:31.639 and dream. You know, who could be a better person 1:40:31.720 --> 1:40:34.679 than Dream to do that? You know, we were lucky 1:40:34.760 --> 1:40:39.040 that she came along because she, you know, one of 1:40:39.080 --> 1:40:42.439 a kind voice. Uh. And then along the way, I 1:40:42.520 --> 1:40:44.439 I you know that we're talking about those days. I 1:40:44.560 --> 1:40:50.080 need to mention Mattie c who is you know, was 1:40:50.200 --> 1:40:53.719 my very close friend prior to even the very earliest 1:40:53.760 --> 1:40:57.360 days of the Source. Matt actually coincidentally knew both me 1:40:57.520 --> 1:41:02.000 and Dave May's just by chance. And then when the 1:41:02.080 --> 1:41:06.000 Source was starting, he in a lot of ways, I mean, 1:41:06.240 --> 1:41:10.240 as I think back on, it represented really the core 1:41:10.400 --> 1:41:14.600 of the mind squad taste in music. Maddie C was 1:41:14.760 --> 1:41:18.320 the essence of like our taste in music because him 1:41:18.320 --> 1:41:20.320 and I were very often aligned in our taste, but 1:41:20.400 --> 1:41:24.320 not always. But Maddie C was ahead, so far ahead 1:41:24.360 --> 1:41:29.480 of the curve in understanding hip hop and having good taste. 1:41:29.760 --> 1:41:32.320 And what are the sides of the tug of war 1:41:32.560 --> 1:41:37.360 rope in terms of like who's more esoteric, who's more 1:41:37.400 --> 1:41:38.519 three VHI and rising? 1:41:38.800 --> 1:41:42.000 And who's more Life is too short? And how do 1:41:42.080 --> 1:41:43.400 you know how to be objectionable? 1:41:44.000 --> 1:41:45.479 You know, that's a great question. I mean one of 1:41:45.520 --> 1:41:49.080 the earliest challenges we had was dealing with regionalism. We 1:41:49.160 --> 1:41:51.840 referred to it earlier when you had your experience. You know, 1:41:52.120 --> 1:41:55.280 there were so many examples the only so to. 1:41:55.280 --> 1:41:58.000 Say, the two short reviews are probably a good example 1:41:58.080 --> 1:42:00.400 of albums that are now deemed classic. 1:42:00.880 --> 1:42:05.360 Now, yes, we made a trash yeah through lens. 1:42:05.600 --> 1:42:06.960 Yeah, So how how does that? 1:42:07.439 --> 1:42:10.800 We were always accused of being New York centric because 1:42:10.920 --> 1:42:12.880 quite frankly, we were. I mean, you know, I was 1:42:12.920 --> 1:42:15.320 from Philly, but you know, we were East Coast centric 1:42:16.240 --> 1:42:19.479 people in terms of our taste in music. But very 1:42:19.560 --> 1:42:21.360 early on, if you look at when we were still 1:42:21.400 --> 1:42:24.479 the voice of the rap music industry. We actually were 1:42:25.400 --> 1:42:29.759 running columns from Houston, Los Angeles, San Francisco. 1:42:30.600 --> 1:42:32.960 Atlanta, San Francisco. 1:42:33.160 --> 1:42:35.800 Yeah, we were Seattle. I mean we were always We 1:42:35.920 --> 1:42:39.800 were one of the first media entities to recognize that 1:42:39.880 --> 1:42:41.719 there was hip hop in other parts of the United 1:42:41.760 --> 1:42:45.439 States besides New York and LA. And another one that 1:42:45.560 --> 1:42:48.040 was doing it was you m TV Raps. So even 1:42:48.080 --> 1:42:49.680 way after I had left you oom TV Raps and 1:42:49.720 --> 1:42:52.080 now I'm doing the source full time, we were kind 1:42:52.120 --> 1:42:56.840 of the only national hip hop media you know, uh 1:42:57.640 --> 1:43:03.479 platforms that existed, but there was there was an ongoing 1:43:03.600 --> 1:43:07.799 tension that existed between East and West coast different tastes, 1:43:07.840 --> 1:43:10.080 you know, too short. It is a great example. Here's 1:43:10.120 --> 1:43:14.479 another example. Nwa who I Love from the first second, 1:43:14.560 --> 1:43:18.280 I mean the first easy E record, you know, everything 1:43:18.400 --> 1:43:21.000 Dre did. I was like the biggest Doctor Dre fan ever, 1:43:21.800 --> 1:43:24.720 but in a weird way, we were playing a lot 1:43:24.760 --> 1:43:27.439 of that on a radio show. We were playing, you know, 1:43:27.560 --> 1:43:30.040 all the Doctor Dre stuff. I went back to Philly, 1:43:30.080 --> 1:43:34.040 I remember in eighty nine. Straight Out Compton came out 1:43:34.040 --> 1:43:37.200 in eighty eight, So sometime late eighty eight, early eighty nine. 1:43:37.560 --> 1:43:41.040 I think it was actually Christmas break of late eighty 1:43:41.080 --> 1:43:43.080 eight early eighty nine. I was back in Philly and 1:43:43.160 --> 1:43:46.639 I walked into either with Sounds of Market or Funkal 1:43:46.720 --> 1:43:51.519 Mart and Todd one remember him, he was like one, yes, yes, 1:43:51.640 --> 1:43:53.720 he was a very famous or not famous, but you know, 1:43:53.880 --> 1:43:57.360 like a well known Philly DJ and record guy. Basically, 1:43:58.000 --> 1:44:01.479 I walk in and I'm like, I was now the source, 1:44:01.520 --> 1:44:04.559 had some momentum, and now I had my own radio show, 1:44:04.680 --> 1:44:06.559 so I was kind of feeling myself a little bit. 1:44:06.680 --> 1:44:08.760 I walk in and I'm like, hey, man, I don't 1:44:08.760 --> 1:44:12.840 see Nwa anywhere. Where's Nwa? And he goes, Nwa, man, 1:44:12.920 --> 1:44:16.600 that shit is garbage. I'm like what, I'm like, yo, 1:44:16.760 --> 1:44:19.040 people love that. He's like, no one here, no one 1:44:19.120 --> 1:44:22.240 in Philly likes that shit, nobody likes that shit. That 1:44:22.360 --> 1:44:25.800 shit is straight garbage. And I'm like, okay, damn. I 1:44:25.960 --> 1:44:30.280 was shocked. Meanwhile, it took like a whole year later 1:44:31.439 --> 1:44:34.200 and every single car is playing straight at Compton, you know. 1:44:34.479 --> 1:44:37.960 But it was like the bubble was so strong still 1:44:38.000 --> 1:44:41.160 around New York and LA and Philly that like it 1:44:41.280 --> 1:44:44.200 took a whole year extra for like that to get 1:44:44.240 --> 1:44:47.599 penetrated by something as great as the NWA album. 1:44:47.840 --> 1:44:49.960 You know, yeah, the ads and Dodillboard. 1:44:50.160 --> 1:44:53.080 I used to religiously read Billboard from like eighty six 1:44:53.160 --> 1:44:57.879 to maybe a ninety three. But whenever the any ruthless 1:44:59.160 --> 1:45:02.640 ad would in Billboard magazine, I would just dismissed it 1:45:02.640 --> 1:45:04.479 because I was like, yo, they got eight ball jackets 1:45:04.640 --> 1:45:05.559 and Jerry Crows. 1:45:05.640 --> 1:45:08.240 They looked like my cousins in La. This has to 1:45:08.280 --> 1:45:08.679 be whack. 1:45:08.960 --> 1:45:09.120 You know. 1:45:10.040 --> 1:45:12.280 I'm thinking that I don't want to get caught up 1:45:12.360 --> 1:45:16.040 in the Toddy t versus Dougie fresh. 1:45:18.439 --> 1:45:19.360 Right that sort of thing. 1:45:19.479 --> 1:45:24.439 And it wasn't until Tik's number one rule was like 1:45:24.600 --> 1:45:29.000 he rejected no hip hop. He was never biased against anything. 1:45:29.720 --> 1:45:33.160 So the fact that Hammer's rhyming over the apache break 1:45:33.200 --> 1:45:36.600 and turned his mother out, Reek was like, I assure you, 1:45:37.520 --> 1:45:40.120 this is like public Enemy level of production, Like you'll 1:45:40.160 --> 1:45:43.479 love this, just give it a chance. And finally during 1:45:43.560 --> 1:45:45.760 lunch break he played the first three songs straight out 1:45:45.800 --> 1:45:46.200 of Compton. 1:45:46.240 --> 1:45:49.400 I was just like, what the hell is this? Like 1:45:49.920 --> 1:45:52.400 literally in lunch rooms, So it was word of mouth 1:45:52.479 --> 1:45:53.040 for a lot of us. 1:45:53.280 --> 1:45:55.840 It took a long time for Philly. For Philly and 1:45:55.960 --> 1:45:58.600 New York. So but we had to be ahead of 1:45:58.640 --> 1:46:00.360 the curve on this. So it kind of to answer 1:46:00.360 --> 1:46:04.559 your question, we were. We had you know, the natural 1:46:04.680 --> 1:46:06.760 tastes of the people in And I also want to 1:46:06.800 --> 1:46:10.439 mention Reef rob Tulou was another important uh figure in 1:46:10.520 --> 1:46:15.040 the source now to Reef Chimo Do rest in Peace. 1:46:15.200 --> 1:46:17.840 An incredible photographer. We can talk about him as well. 1:46:18.560 --> 1:46:23.200 Took so many iconic hip hop photos including Tupac and 1:46:23.360 --> 1:46:26.560 Biggie and Nas and all these incredible legends that we 1:46:26.680 --> 1:46:29.360 all the pictures that we all know to be the 1:46:29.600 --> 1:46:34.479 representative pictures of these artists as Chimo Do. So we were, 1:46:34.600 --> 1:46:39.840 you know, we just organically kind of attracted writers, photographers 1:46:40.680 --> 1:46:45.240 and artists and producers and DJs and executives and you 1:46:45.320 --> 1:46:48.880 know even even Reggio say came into the office and 1:46:49.040 --> 1:46:52.280 at Rest in Peace. He was also an early writer 1:46:52.439 --> 1:46:55.760 for us. He was a very you know, headstrong, like 1:46:55.880 --> 1:46:59.439 you know, uh, smart guy who had a lot to say. 1:47:01.520 --> 1:47:04.400 Chay O Cooker who's gone on to become you know, 1:47:05.080 --> 1:47:08.439 successful screenwriter in Hollywood. A number of people like that 1:47:09.400 --> 1:47:10.160 have gone through us. 1:47:11.040 --> 1:47:13.280 So yeah, we'll say right now, shout out to chay 1:47:13.800 --> 1:47:14.519 Nice nice. 1:47:15.680 --> 1:47:18.439 So yeah, So so anyway, there's there's you know, we 1:47:18.600 --> 1:47:22.240 we as far as like get to your question about 1:47:22.280 --> 1:47:25.559 like inside the magazine, how who liked sort of dela 1:47:25.800 --> 1:47:29.400 versus too short or stuff like that. I mean it's 1:47:29.439 --> 1:47:33.240 hard to say exactly. I mean I think Maddie and 1:47:33.360 --> 1:47:37.360 myself and Reef kind of took on the more New 1:47:37.479 --> 1:47:41.800 York centric stuff and then Reggie and James kind of 1:47:41.880 --> 1:47:47.000 took on the more down South and West Coast stuff. 1:47:47.160 --> 1:47:50.640 That was sort of the general breakdown. But like our 1:47:50.720 --> 1:47:53.360 ground zero for Maddie and myself would be like the 1:47:53.439 --> 1:47:55.400 Brand Nubian album nineteen ninety, you. 1:47:55.439 --> 1:47:56.760 Know, like let's talk about it. 1:47:57.200 --> 1:47:58.720 Yeah, that was our ground zero. 1:47:59.080 --> 1:48:04.719 Yeah review, Yes, I heard, I heard of Brand Nubian. 1:48:05.560 --> 1:48:08.840 I believe that I saw a feel so good video 1:48:09.160 --> 1:48:14.479 on your TV raps maybe once or twice. But the 1:48:14.680 --> 1:48:19.160 review it's almost to the point where And I also 1:48:19.240 --> 1:48:23.960 said this about Illmatic, I wondered if the review of 1:48:24.080 --> 1:48:30.519 the album winds up being like its own headliner, Like, 1:48:31.080 --> 1:48:35.480 is the reception of the sources perspective of an album. 1:48:36.840 --> 1:48:38.439 Bigger than the album itself? 1:48:38.760 --> 1:48:42.080 Because when I saw those five mics for all for one, 1:48:43.240 --> 1:48:45.639 and I've read the first line it said brand Nubian 1:48:45.920 --> 1:48:49.520 is New York. And the way that I was positioned, 1:48:50.720 --> 1:48:53.040 I accepted it because I was like, oh, okay, so 1:48:53.200 --> 1:48:55.160 this album is a paradigm shift. 1:48:55.280 --> 1:48:58.559 This album is now how the next generation of New 1:48:58.600 --> 1:48:59.960 Yorkers are going to look talk. 1:49:00.600 --> 1:49:03.320 And they broke down the language and the slang and 1:49:03.400 --> 1:49:05.519 the skins and all that stuff. And you know, I 1:49:05.560 --> 1:49:08.479 didn't know too much about you know, the five percent 1:49:08.640 --> 1:49:09.040 nation and. 1:49:09.120 --> 1:49:11.600 None of that's you know what I mean like, And 1:49:13.000 --> 1:49:16.880 because I was told it was a classic, I just 1:49:18.000 --> 1:49:20.720 accepted it that it's a class you know what I mean? 1:49:20.880 --> 1:49:25.679 Like, That's that's how impressionable a seventeen year old receiving 1:49:27.000 --> 1:49:30.320 the information. Did you guys know at the time that 1:49:30.520 --> 1:49:33.760 that was going to be I think of all the reviews, 1:49:33.880 --> 1:49:36.679 the Brand Ubian getting five mics was the thing where 1:49:36.960 --> 1:49:40.480 suddenly I started to hear like of the whole regionalism 1:49:40.640 --> 1:49:43.719 thing and they don't respect our music and that sort 1:49:43.760 --> 1:49:47.560 of thing or not they don't respect our music, But like, 1:49:48.840 --> 1:49:52.920 suddenly it matters what you guys think as opposed to 1:49:53.640 --> 1:49:55.719 because I don't know if the lure of brand Nubian 1:49:55.760 --> 1:49:59.559 would have kicked off if it were just a all right, 1:49:59.600 --> 1:50:00.519 they got a you. 1:50:00.560 --> 1:50:03.200 Know what I mean, like, yeah, Brand Nubian. I mean 1:50:03.240 --> 1:50:05.320 if you were around New York City in that year, 1:50:05.680 --> 1:50:08.519 I mean they that album leaked. You know, that was 1:50:08.560 --> 1:50:10.760 one of the things that was an example of bootlegging, 1:50:10.960 --> 1:50:13.720 you know, in those days when cassettes were bootlegged. 1:50:13.920 --> 1:50:15.160 Sow Far in Advance was it? 1:50:16.000 --> 1:50:18.320 We had that cassette so far, I mean the only 1:50:18.360 --> 1:50:20.320 one I think the rivals it ISNAS and we can 1:50:20.360 --> 1:50:24.920 tell that story also. But basically Brand Nubian was red 1:50:25.080 --> 1:50:28.679 hot in New York. I remember literally when Dante walked 1:50:28.760 --> 1:50:34.920 into a new music seminar party and they performed oh 1:50:34.920 --> 1:50:38.160 actually either they yeah, I think they performed wake Up 1:50:39.040 --> 1:50:43.000 or one of their early singles, and I'm like, what 1:50:43.160 --> 1:50:45.040 is this because I had that funky groove on it, 1:50:45.120 --> 1:50:49.640 it had that Parliament I think sample. But anyway, it 1:50:49.800 --> 1:50:53.760 was that record was so big in New York City 1:50:53.920 --> 1:50:58.560 during that nineteen ninety period. Like every nightclub, you know, 1:50:58.600 --> 1:51:00.280 if you go to like especially, I would have out 1:51:00.280 --> 1:51:03.280 a lot in the downtown New York club scene listening 1:51:03.320 --> 1:51:08.320 to people like Stretch, Armstrong and many others, and those songs. 1:51:08.360 --> 1:51:11.160 I mean you would hear like three four album cuts 1:51:11.160 --> 1:51:14.360 a night, you know, in one session from Brand Nubian 1:51:14.479 --> 1:51:16.400 that was so influential. 1:51:16.000 --> 1:51:19.280 So long before its release. Yes, you guys had it 1:51:19.360 --> 1:51:21.600 for release five to six months ahead. 1:51:21.400 --> 1:51:23.880 Something like that, something like that. Yes, I remember, Maddie 1:51:23.960 --> 1:51:25.760 was the it was the keeper of that cassette and 1:51:26.400 --> 1:51:30.479 the only other you know, not the only but we got. 1:51:30.520 --> 1:51:33.160 We frequently got records, you know, because back then, for 1:51:33.240 --> 1:51:37.600 those pre internet days, we would get a cassette and 1:51:38.360 --> 1:51:40.160 you know we would because we had such a long 1:51:40.240 --> 1:51:42.639 lead time. I mean, we might be working it's if 1:51:42.680 --> 1:51:45.800 it's you know, if it's August and now the issue 1:51:45.800 --> 1:51:48.320 we're working might not come out until like October first 1:51:48.439 --> 1:51:51.040 or something. You know. It was like so far ahead 1:51:51.600 --> 1:51:54.519 that we had to be always thinking in that frame. 1:51:54.640 --> 1:51:56.120 So we have to be thinking, like what are people 1:51:56.200 --> 1:51:58.559 going to like? Whoever you put on the cover has 1:51:58.640 --> 1:52:01.160 to be who's hot, like two to three months from now. Basically, 1:52:01.720 --> 1:52:04.040 so because it took because the reason was we had 1:52:04.080 --> 1:52:06.120 to finish all the work, send the issue off to 1:52:06.200 --> 1:52:08.679 get printed. It took it took a couple of weeks 1:52:08.680 --> 1:52:10.320 to get printed, and then it had to get distributed 1:52:10.360 --> 1:52:12.680 to all the distributors, and it was like a two 1:52:12.760 --> 1:52:14.600 month lead time before it actually ended up on the 1:52:14.640 --> 1:52:18.240 newsstand at least. So because of that, we had that 1:52:18.360 --> 1:52:21.760 always that challenge, and the publicist knew that, so they 1:52:21.800 --> 1:52:24.639 would give us the cassettes. But that's when things would leak. 1:52:25.040 --> 1:52:27.840 So there was a big period, you know, in the 1:52:27.960 --> 1:52:31.160 early nineties when a lot of big albums, namely Brand 1:52:31.240 --> 1:52:36.920 Nubian and Illmatic in particular, got leaked real crazy. I 1:52:36.960 --> 1:52:39.479 didn't leak either of them, but I did hear both 1:52:39.520 --> 1:52:41.400 of them very early on. You know, should I tell 1:52:41.400 --> 1:52:42.400 the omatic story or. 1:52:42.640 --> 1:52:46.920 Tell the Ematic story? Yeah, all right, y'all. That was 1:52:47.040 --> 1:52:49.200 part one of Jonathan Schechter's story. 1:52:49.680 --> 1:52:52.160 Of course, we know you wanted the story about how 1:52:52.720 --> 1:52:55.400 NAS got his five mics in the Source. Come back 1:52:55.479 --> 1:52:57.720 next week for that story, and he'll also give you 1:52:58.479 --> 1:53:01.400 some stories about how the Source played a huge role 1:53:01.920 --> 1:53:04.559 in Biggie's career shortly after. 1:53:05.120 --> 1:53:06.960 And also, you know, he's going to talk about how 1:53:07.000 --> 1:53:10.160 he left the publication that he birthed, and he reveals 1:53:10.200 --> 1:53:13.800 what he's been up to now. I'm still celebrating great music. 1:53:14.360 --> 1:53:17.200 This whole interview was damn near four hours, and you know, 1:53:17.439 --> 1:53:19.559 so we try to preserve all of it. So come 1:53:19.640 --> 1:53:23.160 back next week, look into your feed and enjoy part 1:53:23.200 --> 1:53:26.960 two of our conversation with Jonathan Schechter of the source 1:53:27.080 --> 1:53:28.080 magazine all Right. 1:53:34.600 --> 1:53:42.720 Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. For more 1:53:42.760 --> 1:53:46.760 podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 1:53:47.200 --> 1:53:48.920 or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.