WEBVTT - Jen: Bridging the Divide 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.760 Hey, y'all, o Morris, as my mother would say, so 0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:07.320 far on when you're invisible, We've gotten to talk to 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:09.479 a lot of different people who have shaped me and 0:00:09.600 --> 0:00:11.640 who I am and how I think about the world. 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:14.920 From the guys at the Package Center who shaped the 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:18.400 very first days of my adulthood. So then getting to 0:00:18.520 --> 0:00:21.200 take a deeper dive with my community, with people like 0:00:21.239 --> 0:00:26.280 Anicia and Kate and Lonnie and the workers from Ground Zero. 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:30.160 And another person who has shaped that for me is 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:34.080 my brother, who is one of my best friends. This year, 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:38.320 he married this amazing person, Amanda, and she happens to 0:00:38.360 --> 0:00:43.040 be from a white role working class background, and that 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:46.839 brought a whole new community into my life. Amanda has 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:49.879 three siblings, one of them whose experiences I'd like to 0:00:49.880 --> 0:00:52.959 share with you today is her older sister Jen Jen 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:55.520 and I started talking about what it was like from 0:00:55.520 --> 0:01:00.200 her perspective when Amanda and Francisco started dating. I'm is 0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:03.920 happy because you could see that it was important, because 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:06.480 she had the little bounce on her step and she'd 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:09.800 light up over just having a conversation. And then what 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:11.840 did you think of my brother when he finally met 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:14.840 him in person? Well, I had already known a little 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:17.200 bit because you know, I'm a snoop and so I'll 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:21.199 look on Facebook stuff. He's so wonderful. But he's also 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:24.240 like you know, he's Francisco, so he shows up sometimes 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:27.800 with like a button up like floral. I love his 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:31.040 swag and the way he dresses. I love it. He's 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:36.360 such a good conversationalist. You guys all talk and conversations 0:01:36.440 --> 0:01:40.240 go in detailed and I like that. So right away 0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:42.240 I feel like I hit it off with him because 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:46.319 I want to hear more. We learn from each other, Yeah, 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:49.160 which is awesome because this podcast for me is that 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:52.680 I love having conversations with people, and I think there's 0:01:52.720 --> 0:01:55.120 so much to learn from each other. The way we 0:01:55.160 --> 0:01:59.600 can be generous in storytelling, right, so many things come 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:02.720 out when you have a good conversation. You have to 0:02:02.840 --> 0:02:06.560 open yourself up and be prepared to just listen to 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:09.560 what somebody else has to say. And he's very good 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:12.560 at that, and he can talk to almost anyone, I think, 0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:17.160 and that's a great skill to have for some people 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:20.359 to do that. Yeah, he's really brilliant at that. I've 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:23.280 always admired him for it. Also, he writes the best 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:28.640 birthday cards. Really, Yeah, they're my favorite. How nice that? Yeah, 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:32.520 he's so sweet And like I loved meeting Amanda too. 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:36.200 Amanda was great for my brother. Similarly, there was more 0:02:36.240 --> 0:02:39.799 of just an ease and a fun about him and 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:43.600 just like an openness that came with him meeting Amanda. 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:47.440 He isn't that's so great? Right? You wouldn't have thought 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:50.320 the two of them would have hit it off or 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:53.720 even known each other except for the Internet stuff. You know, 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:56.880 they would have never met each other any other way. 0:02:57.000 --> 0:03:00.200 And they're both up for anything, and I love that, 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:05.799 you know, they really are, and whatever you need, sure, 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:08.840 let's do it, or let's go here, let's play this game, 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:13.640 or you know, hang out. It was really interesting to 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:17.720 see how our families came together. We mostly grew up 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:20.600 in the Midwest. They mostly grew up on the East Coast. 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:26.200 They're from a rural area. We're from mostly cities or 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:30.640 small towns. I grew up with two cultures, three languages, 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:34.320 and I traveled a lot, and Jenna spent most of 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:37.520 her life in one town. It's interesting to me that 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:42.320 my brother chose someone who is actually in like working 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:48.280 class white America. I remember initially being a little nervous 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:53.160 because unfortunately, while I am very much like a champion 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:56.920 working class people, we get to be around a lot 0:03:56.960 --> 0:04:00.920 of like minded people. Ultimately, so getting to become a 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:03.360 part of a family where I was like, oh, there 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:07.160 might be incredibly different perspectives than me. What does that 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:10.040 look like? And who are these people? The white girl 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:14.200 working class is so often depicted in the mainstream media 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:17.839 as just Trump supporters, but we actually don't hear a 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:22.120 lot of diverse opinions from this group. And honestly, there's 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:26.720 different layers of this community in our country, and oftentimes 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:29.960 those layers are invisible. And I wanted to talk to 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:33.039 Jen because she's from this community and to get to 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:36.920 know her on a deeper level. She's felt invisible in 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:40.760 her life in different ways through the isolating experience of 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:44.320 grief as a single mom, struggling at times to fit 0:04:44.360 --> 0:04:47.680 in with her community and even within her family and 0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:51.640 relationships at times. You guys, are witnessing one of, if 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:55.000 not the first, most in depth conversation she and I 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:59.440 have had. So it's getting up close and personal with 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:03.760 a new member of my family, and I am incredibly 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:07.160 thankful for Gen's ability to open up to me throughout 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:13.400 this conversation and sharing her experiences. Welcome to When You're Invisible. 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:17.440 My name is Maria fernand but I know not everyone can. 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:20.640 Well there are, so it's also fine to call me Maria. 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:23.800 In today's world, we love to tell stories about people 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:26.400 who have reached the top, like people who have achieved 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:30.440 positions of cloud wealth power. On this show, I won't 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:33.840 be doing that. When You're Invisible is my love letter 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:37.760 to the working class and others who are seemingly invisible 0:05:37.760 --> 0:05:40.479 in our society. I helped to build a community here 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:43.520 that will inspire you to have generous conversations with others 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:46.880 that are different from you, conversations that might help you 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:53.599 see life in an entirely different way. How is your day? 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:57.039 It was a good busy day. I work at a school. 0:05:57.240 --> 0:05:59.400 What do you do at the school now? I am 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:03.920 the superintendent secretary of an elementary pre k to eight school. 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:06.839 It's a small district, so I work right in the 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:10.800 main office. Oh my gosh, what's an everyday like? Well, 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:13.760 I'm right there at arrival and dismissal. I have to 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:17.000 know what buses come in, make sure all the kids 0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:20.560 get to their classes on time. So as you grew 0:06:20.640 --> 0:06:23.920 up your secretary to a superintendent now and you worked 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:27.440 for the housing authority. What else it like, have you done. 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:30.719 I'm always curious what people have done for work, if 0:06:30.720 --> 0:06:33.080 that informs how you live the rest of your hours 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:35.960 without a job, or like the mentality you walk in with. 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:39.200 I have always thought of myself as a dreamer. I 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:44.240 have tons of ideas careers or businesses, just not for me, 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:48.719 for other people. To me, college was never really an option. 0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:52.359 I did well in school, but I never really was 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:56.240 pushed that way. So I graduated high school and got 0:06:56.279 --> 0:06:59.440 a job where my mom worked at a factory and 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:02.640 they worked there for a while. What kind of factory 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:05.400 it was? Clement Pappus and then Red Packet was like 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:09.320 a tomato processing factory. My mom didn't payroll in the 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:14.120 office there, and I got a job in the distribution area, 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:17.320 just office work. I've already done office work. Yeah. Do 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:20.280 you feel like part of the reason you weren't pushed 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:23.000 towards college was the time? Yeah? Because I graduated in 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:26.440 high school in eighty nine, So yes, I knew people 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:29.720 that were going to college, but it wasn't made like 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:32.800 it wasn't necessary. And then in the nineties, people had 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:36.240 children and they're like, yeah, no way, Jose, my kids 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:39.760 are going to college. You do need that time to 0:07:39.920 --> 0:07:44.080 grow up. You know. There's all different ways to learn things. 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:46.720 You have to decide if you want to learn no 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:50.080 more be stuck in your own ways. I was up 0:07:50.120 --> 0:07:52.360 for whatever, you know. If I felt like I could 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:54.600 do it and I understood what it was, then I 0:07:54.640 --> 0:07:57.120 would try. I worked at a pumpkin patch too, but 0:07:57.200 --> 0:08:00.920 I quit that and like that, and I worked for 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:04.680 two years at a trash company in the office. What 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:06.960 do you feel like is the biggest thing you've learned 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:11.200 from all your experiences. I don't know. Um, I think 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:14.920 everyone needs to you know, not preaching. We all need 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:20.360 a little more patients with each other, with ourselves. I 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:24.960 really enjoyed listening to Jen talk about different experiences that 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:29.600 helped shape who she is today. And I particularly enjoyed 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:31.760 hearing about what it's like to grow up in rural 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:36.640 America because it's so different from what I've experienced, so 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:38.720 it was brand new. I feel like I had a 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:42.280 really good upbringing. I grew up in Cedarville. There was 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:45.280 very few people here and not a lot to do. Obviously, 0:08:45.320 --> 0:08:49.199 no public transportation, and you had to walk everywhere. It 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:53.360 was very rural. But as soon as I had children, 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:57.120 that's exactly where I wanted to raise them. You know, 0:08:57.480 --> 0:09:01.800 I knew that it felt right me. We went outside, 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:06.319 We used our imagination, and my parents were very good 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:08.720 if they did a lot with us. You know, we 0:09:08.760 --> 0:09:11.840 went camping into the beach all the time, and we 0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:15.120 have a huge family and there was always something going on. 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:17.880 They kept us very busy. They made us work very hard. 0:09:18.440 --> 0:09:20.240 When you said that you guys had to work hard, 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:23.640 did you do chores in the homework, or did you 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:26.240 also have a job while you're growing up that kind 0:09:26.280 --> 0:09:29.160 of thing. We did chores, and we didn't have a farm, 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:32.440 but we had five acres and my dad wanted to 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:35.760 be a farmer. We kind of sat on a back road, 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:39.400 so everybody dropped their dogs back then, in like the 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:44.280 seventies and eighties, if a dog got pregnant or somebody moved. 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:48.640 They didn't treat animals the way people mostly do now. 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:52.520 So our house ended up being the homeless shelter for 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:56.200 all these strange animals. At one time, Maria, we had 0:09:56.320 --> 0:10:00.400 nineteen dogs, not in the house, they were all out side, 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:04.160 but we fed them all bathed on. We had more 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:06.720 than a hundred chickens we had to take care of, 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:11.520 and gardens. I wouldn't even call a garden because, oh 0:10:11.559 --> 0:10:15.600 my goodness, it was hundreds of feet long and many rows. 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:18.959 And so we did it ourselves. What did you guys grow? 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:23.640 We grew everything in corn, tomatoes and radishes and pumpkins, 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:25.920 and then my mom would freeze it. We had a 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:28.360 lot of geese, and then I had a pony, which 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:33.120 was nice. The pony. Actually, it's a funny story. It 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:37.280 was the summertime and I had to babysit my brothers, 0:10:37.480 --> 0:10:40.200 and so I would get up earlier than them, and 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:42.680 I went out to feed the cats outside and do 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:46.760 my animal stuff, and something's making a noise over in 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:49.280 the little field next to the house, and I look 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:53.199 over and there's a pony tied to the tree. Apparently 0:10:53.720 --> 0:10:56.640 the pony was from like a mile or so away 0:10:56.760 --> 0:11:00.560 and had broken out of their fence. But the pony 0:11:00.679 --> 0:11:03.240 was so bad that they didn't go looking for it. 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:07.640 What child's dream isn't to have a pony? Like the 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:10.640 minute you said that, I was like, what, Yeah, it 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:13.640 was especially fun for the first day. One time it 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:16.160 broke out of the little pasture area we had for 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:20.280 it and broke other horses out of their fenced in areas. 0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:23.360 I had to leave school to go and take back 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:27.480 two horses and the pony to our house. Jen eventually 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:31.959 returns to Cedarville with her kids, but they actually move 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:35.800 to another town in those early years of raising her family. 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:39.400 I moved to Shamok and p i for ten years, 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:41.560 very small town. What do you feel like is the 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:45.280 biggest difference between the two. That's just different cultures from 0:11:45.520 --> 0:11:50.280 South Jersey and farming to the mountains in Pennsylvania and 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:55.120 coal mining. You know, different history is what shows what 0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:58.600 your culture is, what things are normal. Can you describe 0:11:58.640 --> 0:12:03.400 some of the differences between Shimokin and where you grew up. 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:06.920 One of the biggest things to me is how they 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:10.440 raised their children. Those children were allowed that they could 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:15.800 very young walk the little town by themselves, and I 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:18.600 could never understand that that was the biggest thing. It's 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:21.000 a little different pace, it's a little slower, and there 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:24.280 was not as much opportunity. There's no employment there. You 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:27.640 would have to go to Harrisburg, which was an hour away. 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:30.680 I've never been to Cedarville so I haven't gotten to 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:34.920 experience Jen and her family and Amanda in their home base. 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:37.720 But I did get to spend the fourth of July 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:42.520 with them two years ago, and it was really lovely. 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:45.080 It was the first time I met any of them. 0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:47.280 It was also the first time we went wedding dress 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:49.960 shopping for Amanda. It was fun to watch them all 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:52.880 be super supportive and be like, you look so beautiful 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:55.400 in all of it, and it reminds me a lot 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:57.280 of my family. It was really cool to see we 0:12:57.360 --> 0:13:02.079 both did this. We're a little more uggy because Latinos 0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:05.120 like hug and kiss everybody, but they were still super warm. 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:08.320 It's cool to be like, we come from two very 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:13.679 different cultures. I'm like, whoa, that's so cool to me. 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:16.960 I'm like that blending. It's fantastic that all of our 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:21.199 families seemed to mesh well and everyone was very open 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:24.440 to getting to know each other a little bit and 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:27.800 different things. And that's what we're supposed to do. It 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:30.600 to be honest as humans, you know, like as people 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:34.560 were supposed to give each other that little bit of 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:37.959 respect and understanding and then teach me, show me what 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:40.199 you do. I mean, I went to Mexico once when 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:43.880 I was a kid, but I've never really had I mean, 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:46.080 I had a friend for a long time we passed away, 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:49.360 and she was Puerto Rican. But it's completely different because 0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:53.319 it's a different country. Yes, it's very different, and and 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:55.280 like that's what I think is like really beautiful to 0:13:55.320 --> 0:13:59.280 also see because we all get stereotyped sometimes and we're different, 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:02.000 and it's like, oh yeah, we can be seen as that. 0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:04.800 Just because I was raised a certain way or you 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:06.800 were raised a certain way. It doesn't mean that either 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:11.840 one of us are correct. I'm not better than You're 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:15.920 just different. Mm hmmm. So how did your parents grew up? 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:18.520 My dad grew up in Williamstown and my mom grew 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:23.880 up in southern Ohio. Like her family were hillbillies. I 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:28.360 have a picture of her grandfather in a rocking chair 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:31.440 in front of the cabin with no grass in the yard, 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:34.560 any of like fourteen kids in this little cabin. So 0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:39.840 they were very hillbilly, very southern where Ohio meets into Kentucky. 0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:43.480 One thing that separates Jen from her family is that 0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:47.880 she's the first person to date outside her race. And 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:50.240 that was one of the reasons I wanted to talk 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:53.280 to Jen in the first place, because Jen did experience 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:57.720 pushback for that. Her mom especially struggled to accept the 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:01.680 fact that her daughter had married a black man. I 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:04.720 married this man and my mom did not come to 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:09.280 my wedding or talked to me for like, Yeah, how 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:11.840 did that feel? Did you have a conversation around it 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:14.160 before that happened? Did you guys have a fight And 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:16.120 when was the moment you found out your mom was 0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:19.600 like that? Oh, I knew that before I started dating him. 0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:21.600 I knew that when I was in elementary school. I 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:25.480 was friends with Tyrone. We were just friends seventh and 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:27.920 eighth grade and he called and I was on the 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:30.360 phone with him, and she came over and she took 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:32.040 that phone out of my hand and she hung it 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:35.080 up and she said, you will not talk to him. 0:15:35.240 --> 0:15:38.160 And my dad got mad, you know, he was like, yes, 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:41.640 you will. That was a battle between them. Like my 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:45.800 dad and his family, they never talked about people like that. 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:49.600 My dad did not allow the N word at all 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:52.600 around him, did not allow it. Do you feel like 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:55.520 that was something that happened in your community where you 0:15:55.520 --> 0:15:58.160 grew up, where the N word would be used? Yeah? 0:15:59.520 --> 0:16:02.240 Oh god, yea, And people will still talk to me 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:06.800 today because I'm white that they think I feel the 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:10.800 same as they do, you know. And the first thing 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:15.720 I want to do is, hey, do you see my kids? Yeah? 0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:19.360 Which right, what is it like as a white woman 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:22.040 who does get some of that? And you're like, no, 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:26.600 my kids are biracial, and like, oh, they're surprised. I 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:29.160 was the same as my dad. I never allowed any 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:31.560 of that. And it didn't matter what it was. You 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:36.000 don't say those derogatory words. Kids here things. They want 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:39.720 to know what they mean. We don't treat anybody different, 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:43.280 anybody that ever came over. Those kids get the same 0:16:43.320 --> 0:16:45.680 exact thing you do. And I think it's part of 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:49.359 it is My parents got divorced when I was fifteen, fourteen, 0:16:49.920 --> 0:16:52.160 maybe even younger than that. Said that it was two 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:54.680 separate households, so like she ran her ship the one 0:16:54.680 --> 0:16:57.600 way he did. And then I moved out when I 0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:00.480 was seventeen anyway, and I went and lived my dad. 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:03.920 So I had already was on the fence with her. 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:06.840 She was mad about that way before. I didn't get 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:09.040 married until he was twenty, not like it was, but 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:11.640 it was like a couple of years down the road. 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:14.679 But yeah, she didn't know. She didn't like it, but 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:18.560 eventually when I had Sam, she changed. Jen had two 0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:22.000 kids with her first husband, Sam, who was her oldest daughter, 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:25.640 and c J, who's her middle child. Did having grandkids 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:28.360 change her perspective? It did? Do you feel like there's 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:32.480 remnants of it. It's taken her a long time to understand, 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:36.560 but she has changed and she'll even stand up against 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:39.480 other people now you know that say things and she'll 0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:42.879 say I was wrong. So she is a lot better. 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:46.000 So it did take all of that. See, she could 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:49.680 have been small minded forever and lost out on opportunities 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:54.200 to spend her life around her family. People do those things, 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:56.760 and you know it takes a lot. What do you 0:17:56.800 --> 0:18:00.680 feel like? Makes people feel like they have to feel 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:04.560 better than another group of people? People want to feel special, yea, 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:08.720 They want to feel more than so sometimes making other 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:13.480 people feel bad makes them feel better. Or maybe is 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:17.640 it fear of someone encroaching on something they have They 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:21.040 feel like they're going to lose it because someone else 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:24.200 is there or I don't know what it is because 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:30.000 it comes into all kinds of things, race, religion, financial background, ethnicity, 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:35.919 all different things. Hearing that story about Jen's mom changing 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:39.960 is good to hear, and yet it is complicated to hear. 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:45.480 To me, it's crazy how it can take another human being, 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:50.240 like who is it already your own daughter to like 0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:53.280 change your reality and your perspective. That it took her 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:55.800 being a grandmother, that it took her seeing like a 0:18:55.840 --> 0:18:59.200 brand new baby being born into the world to start 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:02.040 to change her for perspective. But at the same time, 0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:04.919 I'm grateful for it, because there are people out there 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:08.800 who would never change and choose not to change at all, 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:11.639 and much less even say anything about that change. Like 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:15.800 I also believe strongly in the ability to admit the mistake, 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:19.040 like when you are able to literally say out loud, 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:22.040 I used to be this way and I was wrong. 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:26.600 I also have much more respect for working class people 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:30.040 who choose to change and choose to open and choose 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:33.320 to be more willing, because, like I do believe, when 0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:37.040 you are afforded more opportunity, when you are afforded more privileged, 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:39.719 when you are afforded more traveling, and you still maintain 0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:43.159 a closed mind perspective, or you still choose not to 0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:46.359 do the research, that's a different kind of ignorance, and 0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:49.280 that is to me a more malicious kind of ignorance. 0:19:51.200 --> 0:19:53.720 It seems like some of Jen's family has clearly had 0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:56.520 to work through and grappl with some important social issues, 0:19:56.960 --> 0:20:00.800 and it seems like they're open to change. So thinking 0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:03.360 about this, I was curious as to how all this 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:06.760 translates in how they vote and how they talk about 0:20:06.840 --> 0:20:11.240 politics outright? Were you guys like a political family? Was 0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:15.040 politics part of your life? We always voted. I always 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:17.480 knew that it was something I had to do. My 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:21.399 grandma wanted to see my vote sticker every year. Did 0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:26.280 you vote? Where's your sticker? That's so interesting? Yeah, and 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:28.879 it was weird. I always knew that it was something 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:31.280 I had to do, you know, and if, oh my god, 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:33.040 I didn't vote, oh my gosh, you have to vote. 0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:35.679 It was a big deal. And I'm also from a 0:20:35.720 --> 0:20:37.800 time when my mom had me. She was not allowed 0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:39.960 to have a checking account. You know, she had no 0:20:40.040 --> 0:20:42.560 credit card, no checking account. It was everything was in 0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:45.919 my dad's name. And I don't feel that old people 0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:48.639 don't realized that it wasn't. I mean, I guess fifty 0:20:48.720 --> 0:20:51.720 years is a lot, but to me, it's not. She 0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:54.520 wasn't somebody that we didn't go out and protest things, 0:20:55.200 --> 0:20:57.720 but you made sure that you had knowledge on what 0:20:57.760 --> 0:21:00.719 was going on, and you voted what you felt was 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:05.280 the right way for everything, not just for president. No 0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:08.280 one really talked about who you voted for. We didn't 0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:12.479 have big political conversations. Do you guys talk about it 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:17.720 now or now? We do, especially since two thousand sixteen. Right, 0:21:17.920 --> 0:21:21.760 of course, I feel it for everyone. Oh my gosh, 0:21:21.880 --> 0:21:24.879 did it ever? So we do talk about it now, 0:21:25.040 --> 0:21:28.600 but it's also in your face more, it's everywhere. How 0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:31.280 do those conversations go over pretty civil or do you 0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:33.920 feel like it gets heated? I have one brother and 0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:36.840 sister in law that it could get heated, so I 0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:39.000 didn't try to avoid it a little bit because there's 0:21:39.040 --> 0:21:42.000 been some hurt feelings, and these are also things that 0:21:42.080 --> 0:21:44.200 they're gonna have to figure out on their own. But 0:21:44.480 --> 0:21:47.400 we don't dwell on those things, because the funny thing 0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:50.600 is we mostly all agree on a lot of things 0:21:50.920 --> 0:21:53.800 how to treat people. So then I don't understand how 0:21:53.880 --> 0:21:57.399 you can writewards that one side, you know, but movement 0:21:57.400 --> 0:22:01.040 eventually it'll just level out a little bit, it Right, 0:22:01.119 --> 0:22:04.159 That's definitely a hope I like to talk about the 0:22:04.200 --> 0:22:06.399 stuff that's going on. But I do try to stay 0:22:06.480 --> 0:22:09.520 with the people that are like minded. I don't want 0:22:09.560 --> 0:22:13.480 to have heated conversation. One of the biggest reasons is 0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:17.000 because I don't know enough to have a good conversation 0:22:17.040 --> 0:22:20.359 and to be I could have a conversation and just 0:22:20.400 --> 0:22:24.440 say how I feel about something, but I definitely can't 0:22:24.480 --> 0:22:28.360 stand on a soapbox and defend something, which is so 0:22:28.440 --> 0:22:31.720 important to say out loud, I think because I think 0:22:31.800 --> 0:22:35.600 sometimes people get stuck or they believe, oh, I'm supposed 0:22:35.640 --> 0:22:38.119 to stand on the soapbox and say everything, or like 0:22:38.160 --> 0:22:40.880 I feel insecure, so I'm gonna do it rather than 0:22:40.960 --> 0:22:43.679 be like I think most of us don't know. You 0:22:43.760 --> 0:22:46.359 have to know what you're talking about if you're going 0:22:46.400 --> 0:22:49.280 to stand up for something. If I were to do that, 0:22:49.359 --> 0:22:51.679 and then I would make sure that I researched and 0:22:51.720 --> 0:22:54.720 I understood what was going on and the best I could. 0:22:56.560 --> 0:23:00.439 But don't stand there and act like you know, because normal, 0:23:00.560 --> 0:23:04.280 regular everyday people that don't study this stuff and really 0:23:04.359 --> 0:23:08.520 spend time analyzing it. We don't know all that stuff. 0:23:09.440 --> 0:23:12.960 We don't know what's all going on. You know, you'll 0:23:12.960 --> 0:23:14.960 only have to try to do the best you can. 0:23:15.080 --> 0:23:17.280