WEBVTT - WorkBoard CEO on Corporate Board Diversity 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:04.160 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:07.920 Quick Takes Tim Stinovich from Bloomberg Radio. Well, I've been 0:00:07.920 --> 0:00:10.720 looking forward to our next guest and entrepreneur has founded 0:00:10.720 --> 0:00:13.000 and let three tech startups, let a high growth business 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:16.160 at IBM, where she ran the high growth information life 0:00:16.160 --> 0:00:20.279 Cycle Governance business, one of her company's PSS systems that 0:00:20.320 --> 0:00:23.160 was acquired by IBM just about a decade ago. Let's 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:25.479 get to dadre pack No. She is CEO and co 0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:31.680 founder of the Enterprise sas Company Workboard. They work with Comcast, Cisco, Microsoft, GE, 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:34.519 so many well known companies. She joins us on the 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:37.600 phone in Silicon Valley. Dadre, nice to have you here 0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:41.160 with us. I'm going to jump right in because Bloomberg 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:43.600 has done a lot of reporting on women and the 0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:45.320 VC world, and I just kind of want to start 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:47.600 there that just two and a half percent of all 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:51.800 venture capital back startups have an all female founding team. 0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:55.360 Why is it so difficult still in the startup world 0:00:55.440 --> 0:01:00.480 for women to find funding? What was your experience? This 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:03.880 is my third company where I thought funding and got 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:06.959 funding in CC world, And I'll say, you know, with 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:10.479 some embarrassment, that it hasn't improved much in a few 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:12.840 decades that I've been working on it. I think part 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:16.399 of it is, Um, we don't look like what the 0:01:16.440 --> 0:01:20.800 prototypical founder should look like, right, the archetect that people 0:01:20.840 --> 0:01:24.280 have in their heads. Now, that's changing, I think now 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:27.160 in very meaningful ways. And there's a lot of organizations 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:30.760 driving change, including for example, all rays And what you 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:33.480 see today which you just wouldn't have seen five years 0:01:33.480 --> 0:01:36.560 ago as much less ten years ago, is women partners 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:41.560 at really every quality firm has real women partners making 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:46.480 real investment decisions, uh and driving those investment decisions in 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:49.440 in the VC firm. So I think we well it 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:51.480 takes a bit of time. I think we actually finally 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:56.480 turned a corner on getting women partners in the venture 0:01:56.480 --> 0:02:00.240 firms that actually fuel those startups. Well that that gives 0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:03.480 me hope. Um. What about corporate boards though, and I 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:05.320 know this is something that you've certainly been keeping an 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:10.280 eye on. Corporate boards still mostly white? Uh white? Are 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:15.520 eight in ten directors at spmpanies at least in are 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:18.840 still male. What's going on with corporate boards? Why is 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:22.040 it so slow? Especially when we you know, we know 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:25.000 the research when it comes to diversity. Mackenzie's done it, 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:26.880 so many others have done it that when you've got 0:02:26.880 --> 0:02:30.440 a diverse board, when you've got a diverse senior leadership, 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:34.359 you do better financially. Yea. I think there's a couple 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:37.679 of things that are shifting there and that will accelerate 0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:41.919 some sense of sort of accelerate post. But a couple 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:44.760 of those. One is, you know, I just added to 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:49.680 women independent directors to my board, Margot gr Judds who 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:53.160 was a former CEO of Ancestor and Kathy Bengo, who 0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:57.040 is a former vice chair of Deloitte, both really senior 0:02:57.120 --> 0:03:00.120 talented women, And as I was doing the search to 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:03.080 add them to the board, I used a search firm 0:03:03.120 --> 0:03:07.440 that was focused on women executives. And so what they've done, 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:09.720 which is something I think hadn't been done in the past, 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:15.160 is actually build the database of candidates, build the pool 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:17.600 so that when you want to find talent, you're looking 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:20.600 at a pool that is enriched by women leaders and 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:24.160 women executives, versus the same old database of the same 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:26.720 old pool that looks the same old way it's always looked. 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:28.480 And that's what people and that's what's going on to 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:30.359 a lot of companies. Right, everybody's going back to the 0:03:30.400 --> 0:03:34.399 existing pools, the old ones exactly. But I do think 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:39.320 that executive search firms are now quite mindful of opening 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:42.640 the aperture. The other thing, and probably more interesting, is 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:46.160 in my work with senior leaders. Most of them are 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:51.880 looking beyond their own sector for expertise, for insights for 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:54.680 how other people are changing the game. And most of 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:59.760 them are acutely aware of the extreme disruptive opportunities and 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:02.880 for the risks and face their business. And I think 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:06.160 that what we'll see is this enormous generation of direct 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:11.120 to consumer leaders, many of whom are women who created 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:15.720 fantastic companies grown them, have real go to market leadership 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:19.120 skills and are very disruptive thinkers. If I were the 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:24.520 CEO of a mainstream company looking for diversity of thought, 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:27.760 provocative ideas in a way to enrich the conversations I 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:30.599 was having at the board, I would look to those 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:34.160 disruptive leaders coming out of d C, DTC. What is 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:37.880 for what forgive me? And what is it about d 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:40.400 to see that you think really puts them out there 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:45.240 ahead of ahead of others. Their business models, the way 0:04:45.279 --> 0:04:47.720 they think about reaching their customers, the way they think 0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:52.800 about serving those customers. It's a a lot of it 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:56.359 is just blank slate, right, not bogged down by the 0:04:56.360 --> 0:04:59.080 way we've always done it, and started instead with what 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:01.919 would be awesome? Like what would what could we imagine? 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:06.719 And then that's a pool of many many women in 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:10.080 those organizations as co founders, as CEOs and clos and 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:12.480 CFOs right, women in different roles there. So I think 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:17.279 it creates a pipeline of diverse talent that has the 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:22.480 kind of disruptive thinking and phenomenal success that you'd want 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:26.360 around you in the boardroom. Because I do wonder too, 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:28.760 and you probably have a lot of experiences this are 0:05:28.839 --> 0:05:30.560 are a great person to talk to about this is 0:05:30.560 --> 0:05:34.599 that you know, money always talks, and I do wonder 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:37.000 if there's at some point somebody's going to be like, wow, 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:40.800 look at this company, uh, the diversity that they've got, 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:43.320 and look at how well they're doing, and so what's 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:46.359 the common denominator? What is it that's getting them to 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:49.040 that point? And I know there's a lot of factors 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:53.279 that play that make a successful venture or institution or company, 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:55.279 but we but we know the research and I do 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:57.360 wonder at some point is it just people are like, 0:05:57.640 --> 0:06:00.320 this is the smart thing to do financially if you're 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:06.160 publicly held or anything. Yeah, I think until its leaders 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:08.719 perceive CEO is perceive it as the smart thing to 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:12.719 do financially. Until they perceive it as when I bring 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:15.960 those different voices on that different experience to my table, 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:20.599 I'm a smarter leader. When they think that, then they'll 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:23.560 make different choices, which I think that's actually more than money, 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:26.680 which is which makes me feel better, Like I hope 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:29.159 that that's what they were doing, to be quite honest 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:31.960 with you, right, because it's it's the right thing to 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:36.200 do to represent more voices. What do you do specifically 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:38.880 at work board when it comes to your own leadership, 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:42.760 like how are you getting them your you know, your 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:47.560 management to think about diversity and make sure that it's 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:50.640 not just checking the boxes but it's really a productive 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:55.760 form of leadership. You know. We our first four people 0:06:55.760 --> 0:07:00.919 in the company were incredibly diverse. So three women, one man, 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:06.160 and of the three women, one was from Central America, 0:07:06.440 --> 0:07:09.640 one's a native Hawaiian, I under I'm the other. Uh. 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:13.000 We started really as a diverse group of people and 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:16.520 what is you know fabulous about that? Is you never 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:19.280 have to go backwards and fix it. You never have 0:07:19.320 --> 0:07:21.040 to go backwards and clean it up or make it 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:24.160 an overt effort. It sort of spawns from there. And 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:28.320 so I think we enjoy an incredibly diverse team in 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:32.440 the level of experience in the age, which is another 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:38.480 enormous one, in ethnic backgrounds, in educational backgrounds, and gender diversity, 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:42.120 really broad spectrum, and I think that is something that 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:47.160 we think of as to be celebrated, and we're try 0:07:47.200 --> 0:07:49.480 and put a fair bit of ritual around celebrating and 0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:52.400 valuing it. And of course when you celebrate it and 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:55.200 value it, you get to build on it. Right, it 0:07:55.720 --> 0:08:00.160 shifts forward Women in every layer and every level the 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:05.600 organ and people with diverse experiences and perspectives likewise, in 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:08.720 every layer and every aspect of the ward. Well what's 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:12.280 interesting too, is um I mean California, right, I mean 0:08:12.320 --> 0:08:16.240 it was because of a lot of pressure among the 0:08:16.280 --> 0:08:20.080 California public that really pushed them to pass a law 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:23.520 requiring diversity and public boards. But do we is that 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:27.280 what we need? Because I feel like things are moving 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:30.360 so slowly. I talked about this, uh, just in the 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:32.920 last hour or so with the CFO of s. D. 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:36.360 Lawder and the executive VP of Finance at st. Lawder 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:40.600 about how many conversations we've had about improving boards and 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:43.880 so on, and yet here we are and people put 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:47.680 out uh dates by when they're gonna have more parody, 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:52.640 and it's again several years from now. You know, is it? 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:56.440 Do we need to have states with laws saying Okay, 0:08:56.440 --> 0:08:59.680 it's time to do it, let's do it. Yeah, good question, 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:02.040 and I don't I don't know the answer, to be honest, 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:06.800 I'm not a fan of regulating it. And I actually 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:10.680 find that that has the potential to hollow out the 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:14.360 value of the purpose of boards, and so I don't 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:19.120 love that. I would say, in um, if we we 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:22.360 look at i'll call the leading indicators, kind of we 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:26.480 measure the upstream progress rather than the downstream progress, and 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:32.080 the downstream progresses. We've got diverse boards everywhere that that 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:35.440 undoubtedly takes time. Like there's not that many board seats. 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:39.000 They don't come up empty every year, right, Some people 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:40.840 sit in the same board seat for quite a long time, 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:43.920 and that there's goodness in that. So it's not that 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:46.680 the number of chairs up at any one time is 0:09:46.760 --> 0:09:49.679 so huge that we should dis measure how full they are, Right, 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:52.719 we might instead start to measure and focus on the 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:57.880 indicators of change and diversity of further upstream. So, for example, 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:03.640 in California in particular, how many venture company venture funds 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:07.360 have diverse partnerships and who do they invest in? And 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:11.079 are they investing in founders and co founders that are 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:14.840 diverse themselves? Right? Because in California in particular, the number 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:18.720 of companies created far exceeds the number of open board 0:10:18.760 --> 0:10:23.160 seats this year, right there. And so if we start 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:26.280 lay upstream, what's that look like? We might look at 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:30.480 how many co founders are women and how that's going. 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:34.280 We might look at how many executive leaders, right are 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:36.960 not just the co founders, but of the executive teams 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:40.000 of those young companies, how diverse are those? And those 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:42.120 of what I think give us better headlights on are 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:45.600 we going to see meaningful difference in the few board 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:51.520 seats available being allocated to the best candidate, including the 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:55.120 candidates with diversity. Well, if there is one piece of 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:58.760 advice you would give to leaders out there in terms 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:04.720 of thinking about more women, more everything at your company, 0:11:04.840 --> 0:11:06.800 I mean, what is it? How do you start? What 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:10.280 do you do. I think I would go back to 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:13.760 the common I think about the drive real change, which 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:19.320 is two CEOs. What is the breadth and depth and 0:11:19.400 --> 0:11:24.840 diversity and disruptivelopment of thinking that leads to a smarter 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:29.440 conversation about how your company serves as customers well. And so, 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:31.800 if you happen to be a company that only serves men, 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:34.440 then by all means you just keep going with the 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:37.400 boards you've got. If, on the other hand, you depend 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:40.599 on women talent in your organization to drive value, to 0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:45.559 behalf of your customers as women, then you're probably not 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:48.800 serving either your talented team members nor your customers well 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:52.800 enough if you've got a board that doesn't reflect those 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:56.160 buyers and that talent. If you really focus on how 0:11:56.200 --> 0:11:59.040 do I have the smartest conversations about building the best 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:05.080 business I can? And then diversity pools a day right right, 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:08.520 And increasingly we're seeing you know, customers, whether it's your 0:12:08.520 --> 0:12:13.199 business customers or you know customers like me buying merchandise 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:16.520 that increasingly, you know, you want to see what the 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:20.080 company stands for, what the diversity is, and that's you know, 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:24.360 going to be an element that really matters certainly going forward. 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:27.040 Um Ddri, thank you so much, really appreciate it, and 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:30.120 hopefully we can check in with you again in the future. 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:34.120 Dedri Pucknachiese, chief executive officer co founder of Workboard, on 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:36.880 the phone from Silicon Fowl. As we mentioned, she has 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:40.839 started up three tech companies, including one that she sold 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:43.199 to IBM, so really great to get a gut check 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:45.720 with her when it comes to VC and UH, the 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:47.240 investment world and the tech world.