WEBVTT - Command Climate 0:00:05.760 --> 0:00:08.600 The case to be heard in oral argument is Bales 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:11.920 versus Commandant is mar Whenever you're reading. 0:00:12.480 --> 0:00:15.240 Good morning, your honors, it's a pleasure to begin here 0:00:15.560 --> 0:00:16.200 with you again. 0:00:17.800 --> 0:00:21.840 On September twenty third, twenty twenty one, Robert Bales's attorney, 0:00:22.000 --> 0:00:24.480 John Mayer, delivered an oral argument to the US Court 0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:28.640 of Appeals in Denver, Colorado. Over four years had passed 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:31.240 since their case was dismissed by the Armies of Pellate Court, 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:35.040 but that loss hasn't dissuaded Mayr not yet. 0:00:35.520 --> 0:00:40.800 This is a case, although it's a very tough case admittedly, 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:46.080 where the accused pled guilty to killing seventeen Afghan civilians. 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:47.519 There are two. 0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:54.480 Fundamental, completely constitutional implications to show why the military courts 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:57.880 did not give full and fair consideration or adequate consideration. 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:00.480 And here's why, if I could break them down briefly. 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:04.880 Mefloquin it has now been determined by the United States 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:08.720 FDA to cause long term psychonic effects. 0:01:09.160 --> 0:01:12.119 I want to focus on your medical win argument as 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:15.800 I understand it from the Court's opinion below. There was 0:01:16.040 --> 0:01:20.560 no testimony at all that he was prescribed mefloquin, that 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:23.960 he took methlicalin In fact, I don't think he ever 0:01:24.120 --> 0:01:25.959 said that he took methlaloquin. 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:28.200 I respect to disagree judges. 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:30.640 Okay, on which one of those do you disagree? 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:31.720 It? 0:01:36.080 --> 0:01:40.080 Previously on the War within and Iraq, I see what 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:41.679 looked at me, the purple ghosts. 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:46.720 The best explanation for these delusions is chronic and mefic invoice. 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:48.920 I started having headaches after my second tour. 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:51.720 If you get a traumatic fright injury, you kind of 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:55.280 lose parts of yourself and you become really disinhibited. 0:01:55.680 --> 0:01:58.400 You know about the time that bails the shit out 0:01:58.400 --> 0:01:59.440 of that jingle truck driver. 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:01.880 Right is running around with a chicken with the fucking 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:02.200 head coo. 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:04.880 And I think you have to carry a little bit 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:08.639 of a swagger to say, and I'm gonna be all right. 0:02:08.800 --> 0:02:10.440 Not only are gonna be all right, We're gonna kill 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:11.000 that bastard. 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:15.320 I'm Mike McGinnis. This is the war within the Robert 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:27.040 Bayles story. For the past seven years, Robert Bales and 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:30.240 John Mayer have been trying just about everything in order 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:33.440 to give the convicted war criminal who sentenced to life, 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:37.840 a second chance, but thus far, the American legal system 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:42.079 has not looked favorably upon them. In twenty seventeen, they 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:45.399 lost their appeal with the army. Since then, they've tried 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:47.680 to make the argument in various civilian courts. 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:50.560 First, we find ourselves in the United States District Court 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:53.600 for the District of Kansas, essentially saying that the military 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:57.840 got it wrong. We lost in the District Court in Kansas, 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:00.640 so we filed an appeal to the US Court of 0:03:00.639 --> 0:03:05.200 Appeals for the Tenth Circuit, which sits in Denver, Colorado. 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:08.440 At the time of our interview with him, mar was 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:10.440 still waiting to hear back on a decision from the 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:14.880 judges in Colorado. The attorney expressed cautious optimism that the 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:17.320 powers that be would give their case a fair look. 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:20.880 At the very conclusion of the case, I should judge, 0:03:21.080 --> 0:03:22.440 you know, how do we let this lie? 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:24.200 You got to get to the merits of the case. 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:27.840 And I believe, not to quote him, but in other words, 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:30.560 Judge or Bial noted, he says, well, I believe he 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:34.600 might be right. You know, if the government ordered Bails 0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:37.640 to take a poison, he took the poison, and he 0:03:37.680 --> 0:03:40.920 was an otherwise acquitted himself beautifully under fire and under 0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:44.440 duty for the previous forty eight months in infantry combat 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:49.760 a close quarters combat. What explains this departure and behaviors? 0:03:50.720 --> 0:03:54.440 On May eleventh, twenty twenty three, the Colorado Court announced 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:59.920 its decision against Staff Sergeant Bales. If you ask Mar, 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:05.160 the reasons for this rejection are complicated. For starters, Batals 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:08.640 waived some of his rights when he pled guilty. But 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:13.280 there's another, potentially more controversial explanation for what's happening here. 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:17.359 If the military admits that mef luquin was responsible for 0:04:17.400 --> 0:04:22.000 the Canahar massacre, it begs the question what other criminal 0:04:22.040 --> 0:04:24.839 acts could have been caused by this purportedly harmful drug. 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:26.320 If there are. 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:29.000 Soldiers out there that may have committed a sexual assault, 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:32.040 if they're soldiers out there who have done physical assault, 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:34.800 you know, or attempted murders that are convicted right now, 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:37.839 and ultimately it turns out that they were ordered to 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:41.000 take meflquin. Well, it's a very strong precedent to undo 0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:43.960 a lot of convictions. I think the United States would 0:04:43.960 --> 0:04:46.680 probably want to avoid a victory. You're not going to 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:48.839 open up the floodgates, but they're also going to have 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:51.880 an eye on the horizon, saying holy. 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:55.719 Cow, Manars made this point again and again. The US 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:59.800 military protects itself. That's why when he takes on a 0:04:59.839 --> 0:05:02.560 case like this, he doesn't always count on winning the 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:06.400 legal battle. But there are multiple ways to advocate for 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:07.680 a man like Robert Bales. 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:10.560 Most of the time when we catch an appeal, we 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:13.280 begin with a multifaceted approach. 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:15.040 It's not just the court. 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:17.080 We're going to try to do everything that we can 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:18.840 to get the word out. 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:25.040 In twenty twenty, that strategy even included asking President Donald 0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:30.080 Trump for a full, unconditional pardon. At the time, Bob 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:32.480 expressed that he felt a pardon was the only way 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:33.599 he'd ever leave prison. 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:36.240 I believe the legal system is so screwed up in 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:39.200 the country that the Supreme Court is not going to 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:42.400 hear this case. The only chance I have is the 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:44.680 same guy who's an outsider to the government right now, 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:46.000 and I believe that's President Trump. 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:50.080 He's the only hope I have. It wasn't a total 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:53.440 long shot. Mahner has been successful at getting clients released 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:56.919 by Trump during his tenure in office. As his presidential 0:05:57.000 --> 0:06:00.320 term drew to a close, Bales's request for a harden 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:03.640 put his name back in the headlines, which was news 0:06:03.680 --> 0:06:07.480 that his former colleagues, like Private Gavin Jones, were not 0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:08.400 thrilled to receive. 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:11.560 And I'm like, holy shit, that blew me away that 0:06:11.680 --> 0:06:14.640 if he was just gonna I'm not gonna say weezel 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:15.520 out of it, because trust me out. 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:16.280 I'm sure the guy does. 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:18.000 Have a traumatic brain injury, but that doesn't, you know, 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:20.640 still cover you from being a fucking total piece of shit. 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:23.080 To be honest, it did really rub. 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:26.080 Me the wrong way, and I was surprised that people's 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:27.400 memories were got short. 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:31.560 The idea that Bails should be vindicated of his crimes 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:34.200 or granted clemency is just crazy to me. 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:38.000 That's James Alexander, another private who's served under Bales. 0:06:38.720 --> 0:06:41.200 Here's the guy who has killed people in the past, 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:43.240 and he may get a pardon. 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:45.560 I don't need to sleep like that. 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:49.640 In the end, Trump never granted the former staff sergeant 0:06:49.640 --> 0:06:53.240 of pardon, and as of twenty twenty three, it remains 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:56.240 questionable whether another president has the potential to be as 0:06:56.279 --> 0:06:58.000 sympathetic to Baiales's plight. 0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:02.760 We're not necessarily asking president for pardon anymore, and that's 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:07.880 our sensitivity and assessment of this administration. Is there not 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:11.920 necessarily going to be as amenable to good order and 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:15.280 discipline in the military. I don't believe mister Biden or 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:17.080 Miss Harris would ever do it. 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:23.080 With Bob's chances at freedom shrinking with each passing year, 0:07:23.440 --> 0:07:25.320 it can be challenging to hang on to a sense 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:30.280 of hope, and yet his wife, Carrie Bales, still can't 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:30.920 help but try. 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:34.640 My goal is to get him home right so that 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:38.559 we can be a family. There's nothing more precious than time. 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:43.840 So for me, it's about yes, I believe that punishment 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:46.560 was in order, right, I get them, It's. 0:07:46.440 --> 0:07:47.080 Just how long? 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:50.440 How long do we need to make him suffer? 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:53.640 Based on all of that, we now know it's just 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:55.800 time to let him come home, let. 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:56.440 Our warriors hold. 0:07:56.720 --> 0:07:58.720 We let all of them go from Gimo. You know, 0:07:58.800 --> 0:08:00.640 we let the terrorists go and not to go back 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:01.520 to wherever. 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:02.480 They were from. 0:08:03.480 --> 0:08:06.880 So why are we keeping our own American soldiers away 0:08:06.880 --> 0:08:07.840 from their families? 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:14.480 Of course, my dad being in prison affects my everyday life, 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:16.840 my mom's every day life, my brother's every day life, 0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:19.160 and really our family every day life in a. 0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:23.800 Hole in recent years, carrying Bob's teenage daughter Quincy has 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:26.880 joined the cause, doing what she can to help her father. 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:29.120 I think that as I get older, I want to 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:32.000 be more involved kind of with sharing the story more 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:35.960 because people think that this whole story is outlandish and crazy. 0:08:36.320 --> 0:08:38.920 But I think that once people finally get some facts 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:40.959 and can see it in front of them, then that's 0:08:41.000 --> 0:08:44.360 really important. So I'm going to start helping run social media. 0:08:44.640 --> 0:08:46.960 My goal is to just start getting it out there. 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:51.840 That advocacy includes speaking at events such as a political 0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:54.840 convention that took place in Louisiana in the summer of 0:08:54.840 --> 0:08:56.079 twenty twenty two. 0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:59.280 In Louisiana, our trip that we took, get a table 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:03.000 set up, we had information, we had papers, We kind 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:06.280 of stood at the tables, and we just educated people. 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:09.720 People would come up to us ask this question. If 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:11.679 I have a voice, then I should share it. 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:18.320 If you're a convicted murderer who wants your case to 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:21.320 be reviewed, it can help if the American public is 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:25.800 on your side. Just ask Adnan Sayed, the subject of 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:30.559 the popular serial podcast. After over twenty years of imprisonment 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:34.560 and renewed attention from the media, Sayed was released from 0:09:34.559 --> 0:09:39.680 his incarceration. Balsers tried to tell his story his way 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:44.560 once before. In twenty fifteen, two years after his conviction, 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:47.640 he spoke with journalist Brendan Vaughan for a piece that 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:49.480 would run in GQ magazine. 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:52.040 The first I've heard of the Conda Har massacre, as 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:55.720 it was pretty quickly dubbed, if I remember correctly, it 0:09:55.880 --> 0:09:58.720 was on the front page of the Times, and I 0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:01.599 just immediately my I just went right to it. It 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:04.480 raised questions about the state of mind of our soldiers 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:07.480 and the impact of fighting such a long war. I mean, 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:10.719 there was definitely a sense, as I recall it, you know, 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:14.640 of why are we still there? What is the impact 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:16.680 on our soldiers of being still there? What is the 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:20.800 impact on our country of still being there? If I 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:23.680 remember correctly, I mean, you know, there wasn't even much 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:28.080 news coming out of Afghanistan. The public had certainly moved on. 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:33.920 In the immediate aftermath of his attacks. Bales' saga was 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:37.640 covered extensively by the media, but then it left the 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:41.280 news cycle, and talking to a magazine writer like Vaughn, 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:44.360 Robert Bales had a natural motive for bringing his name 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:45.600 back into the zeitgeist. 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:49.160 He wanted to tell his story in a way that 0:10:49.200 --> 0:10:51.600 he felt like he had been unable to get it 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:54.320 out prior to that. It was pretty clear that he 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:57.400 wanted the article to humanize him. We talked about a 0:10:57.440 --> 0:10:59.959 lot of different things, not just what he did in Afghania, 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:05.640 but his life, his upbringing, his wife, his children, his jobs. 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:09.560 But there was definitely a heaviness to the way that 0:11:09.679 --> 0:11:10.800 he came across. 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:13.439 He was a pretty serious presence on the. 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:15.920 Phone, and what he had done was pretty serious, and 0:11:15.920 --> 0:11:18.120 he didn't deny any of it, so he talked about 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:21.480 it in a really direct way. Every time I got 0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:24.720 off the phone. It was still just chilling to have 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:27.840 talked to somebody that was convicted of his massacre. 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:32.120 Many of the topics covered in this podcast also come 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:35.800 up in the written piece, an id explosion several days 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:41.080 prior to the murders, growing paranoia at the VSP. Bails's 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:44.319 explanation for what he had done has also remained constant 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:46.880 up to a point. 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:49.160 He firmly believed that the people that he was going 0:11:49.200 --> 0:11:50.559 after were Taliban. 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:53.080 They were not innocent civilians, all of them. 0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:56.440 He didn't say that the children were, that the women were, 0:11:56.480 --> 0:11:59.960 but that the men involved were, and that he felt 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:03.040 that these people represented a threat to him and the 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:05.360 other soldiers on his base. 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:08.400 At no point in the GQ piece is the term 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:12.480 methyl queen even referenced. Nobody ever told Vaughn that the 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:16.080 drug could have been important to the story. 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:16.720 The anti malarial drug that he was on. 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:18.160 I was aware of it. 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:21.280 It was a thing that was really kind of deep 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:22.240 in the background. 0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:26.679 Though lots of soldiers were taking this medication at the time, 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:31.560 there was nothing unique about Bails having taken it. He 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:34.000 didn't emphasize it at all. I mean, he might not 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:36.720 even even mentioned it at the time. That doesn't mean 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:40.160 it's not true. I don't know, but the one thing 0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:41.800 I can say for sure is that it was a 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:48.280 very minor factor. Back in twenty fifteen, the GQ article 0:12:48.320 --> 0:12:52.920 was titled Robert Bale Speaks, Confessions of America's most notorious 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:53.600 war criminal. 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:57.680 After it was published on October twenty first, twenty fifteen, 0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:00.280 it was up to the public to determine and how 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:00.760 they felt. 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:03.679 I think that the piece was received as something that 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:06.560 had never been told fully because the versions that had 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:10.120 been told had never incorporated Bails's version in a meaningful way. 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:13.040 But it was widely read, and I certainly got a 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:16.240 lot of like appreciative feedback about it that you know, 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:18.240 I'm glad the story is out there. 0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:21.920 Not long after the story was released, John Marr joined 0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:23.400 the staff Sergeant's defense team. 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:25.719 I think that in a full three sixty treatment of 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:29.679 the issues. But the GQ article didn't have the information 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:32.840 that we have. That's because we weren't on the key 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:35.160 shit and we hadn't discovered it, we hadn't worked it. 0:13:35.600 --> 0:13:39.400 Not everybody loved the piece. Private James Alexander felt that 0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:42.880 it was skewed towards Bob Bailes's perspective and away from 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:43.439 the facts. 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:47.680 Bails writes an article for GQ that isn't vetted. We 0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:49.920 didn't get talked to at all. There are people enlisted 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:52.079 in the article. For example, at the time he was 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:56.959 my roommate. Doc Orciello was never contacted about the article, 0:13:57.160 --> 0:13:59.640 but there he is in the pages of GQ. I 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:01.720 could go point by point on the GQ article and 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:02.959 like refute some of the stuff. 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:05.760 The article was to be clear like fact checked to 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:07.520 within an inch of its life. I mean, it was 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:12.000 very very thoroughly fact checked over a period of weeks. 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:14.079 It might have even been more than a month that 0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:16.960 the fact checker just worked it every day. We addressed 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:20.720 it with attribution as much as we possibly could, by 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:23.560 making clear what came from other places and what came 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:24.480 from Bales himself. 0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:29.720 It was fortunate timing that my counterpoint came out in 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:33.600 the Daily Beast shortly after the GQ article came out. 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:38.520 Captain Danny Fields, the senior man at VSP Bellmby, also 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:42.120 spoke to a journalist to express his point of view 0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:43.440 on the Candahar massacre. 0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:45.280 I wanted an outlet. 0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:49.520 I think anyone in that situation would probably feel they'd 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:52.280 ask the question, could I have done something to have 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:55.520 prevented that? You know, looking back, maybe I did it 0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:57.480 because it was kind of a defense of myself. 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:01.840 Many of the soldiers in and the Canahar masker really 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:04.880 care about how the incident and their involvement in it 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:09.480 is remembered and perceived. Yes, they want to make sure 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:13.160 that the American public knows the whole story, But in 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:18.120 certain instances they also seem to be delivering messages specifically 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:20.400 to their former colleagues in the US military. 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:25.400 Bals wanted to make it really clear how sorry he 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:30.000 was to his fellow soldiers for the dishonor that he 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:33.560 had brought upon them in his mind, and for the 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:37.640 tragic errors that he made in both judgment and action 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:42.040 and perpetrating this massacre. He expressed far more emotion for 0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:44.240 the soldiers that he felt he let down than the 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:45.160 people that he killed. 0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:49.880 We've established that prior to March eleventh, twenty twelve, Robert 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:52.960 Bales was known for being an elite soldier. We spoke 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:56.960 with Nick Beasley, a former executive officer who oversaw Bales's 0:15:56.960 --> 0:16:00.280 platoon in Afghanistan, and gave a very positive review of 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:04.640 this performance. As a noncommissioned officer also known as an NCO. 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:07.320 Bob is the best NCO I ever worked with as 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:11.600 far as getting stuff done and understanding the intent. He 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:16.160 understood war better than people that wore uniforms in our unit. 0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:18.600 But the bomb I knew that the bomb I know 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:22.040 that still exists. Cares deeply about his soldiers, and that 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:23.680 was one of the things we had heard that he 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:26.880 was worried about his soldiers safety. I think everything he 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:29.520 did came from a place and a desire to take 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:30.720 care of his ment. 0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:33.080 I was the guy that people turned to bring their 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:34.000 loved ones back home. 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:39.920 This reputation as a warrior and a protector. That's always 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:42.080 been a point of pride for bails. 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:45.000 I still remember a guy's wife on my last tour 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:47.480 coming up and getting me a hug before before we left, 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:49.920 and she's like, you know, bring them back home, you know. 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:53.560 And they asked First Arm Bigham why they sent people 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:55.640 where they sent and he said, you know, they said 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:57.560 bell and By was bad, and I sent my best 0:16:57.600 --> 0:16:59.080 guy to bellum By. 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:04.000 This idea that Baiales was the best has been central 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:07.399 to his defense strategy, both legally and in the press. 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:12.520 For instance, Bailes claims that he was so highly regarded 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:15.560 that he was responsible for preparing his own soldiers for 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:17.040 combat in Afghanistan. 0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:21.800 I'm given pretty much free reign to choose my training. 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:22.439 You know. 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:25.520 I still have to follow rules and regulations, but at 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:27.919 the end of the day, I'm given a lot of 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:30.240 latitude to plan my own training. 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:34.040 James Alexander was one of the soldiers being trained by Bailes. 0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:37.399 He didn't feel like their squad was ready for battle. 0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:42.520 We did not have experience. I went through SRP with Baals, 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:44.920 but you're ready in this protocol. So he was right 0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:46.840 next to me and he's like, Oh, you don't have 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:47.639 to go to this one. 0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:49.080 Oh you don't have to go to that one. 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:51.320 But again, this is his fourth deployment, so I'm like, 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:53.639 maybe he's giving me some inside knowledge here, like maybe 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:55.400 he just knows, like it's his all bs. 0:17:55.400 --> 0:17:56.639 It's like check the block training. 0:17:56.920 --> 0:17:59.359 But it's still as a brand new soldier, I'm putting 0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:01.400 my faith in Rob Bails versus the process. 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:04.320 And that's the issue. It's like he thought he was 0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:06.000 above the process. 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:09.720 It was really interesting to see how unprepared we were 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:13.560 to go into ball and body and also how unprepared. 0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:14.040 Our leadership was. 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:17.560 I mean, those guys were like they had no clue 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:19.399 where we were going, what we were doing. 0:18:19.560 --> 0:18:20.840 You know what we should even be. 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:22.800 Training for the job was just to get in there 0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:25.320 and you'll get OJT on the job training, and so 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:26.439 like that's what it became. 0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:29.520 Private Gavin Jones was brand new to the military in 0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:33.760 twenty twelve. Like Alexander. He remembers that the special Forces 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:36.840 at the VSP prepared him for combat more than his 0:18:36.880 --> 0:18:37.840 own infantry leaders. 0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:41.000 And C's never really taught me anything. I really didn't 0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:41.320 really know. 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:44.199 It's basically all the SF guys that would teach us 0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:46.800 like as we went. In fact, I received more firearm 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:50.120 training from those SF guys than I ever did from Bails. 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:56.000 Combining unproven guys like Gavin with elite special forces is 0:18:56.040 --> 0:18:59.680 not a common practice in the US military. This dynamic 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:04.400 allowed infantry troops Jones, Alexander, and the unnamed Silver Acts 0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:08.520 to enjoy a much more relaxed environment than usual on 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:09.240 their deployment. 0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:13.000 You're backing up SF guys, and those guys procedurally do 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:15.680 whatever they want to do, so you know you are 0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:16.679 following fairly. 0:19:17.119 --> 0:19:19.200 I was blessed to have a super dope deployment in 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:19.840 that regard. 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:23.879 There was no real uniform standard, grew facial hair. It 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:27.640 just it wasn't your typical shape every day make sure 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:31.359 uniforms pristine. It was, Hey, we know, will come in 0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:35.439 this hellhole and we're gonna throw some clothes and go 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:35.920 to work. 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:39.760 I'm eating steaks in the middle of in the middle 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:41.800 of nowhere, like this is I'm eating better here than 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:44.200 I was back home, and we haven't earned any of 0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:46.760 those rights. We tried to grow beards, you know, and 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:49.119 tried to fit in, but the reality is those guys 0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:52.720 were so far and above and away like more competent 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:53.960 in the jobs that we. 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:58.480 Were in the armed forces. The culture is set by 0:19:58.480 --> 0:20:01.440 the people at the top of the chain. At VSP 0:20:01.600 --> 0:20:04.800 Bellam by Joe's like Alexander were under the command of 0:20:04.840 --> 0:20:07.920 Robbert Bales along with his fellow leaders. 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:12.800 But became like an incredibly toxic environment. Uh, incredibly toxic 0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:16.439 as far as the NCOs. I didn't trust him as 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:18.560 far as I could throw them. And so that was 0:20:18.600 --> 0:20:21.560 kind of the situation that I think Fields was kind 0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:24.840 of dealt. I'm sure he was pissed because he's expecting, 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:27.600 you know, some great NCOs that are here, and he 0:20:27.680 --> 0:20:29.720 got essentially what seemed to be sort. 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:31.000 Of the bottom of the barrel. 0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:31.920 Man. 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:34.400