WEBVTT - Selects: How Umami Works! 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:03.960 M Hey, everybody, are you hungry? You want something sweet? 0:00:04.880 --> 0:00:10.440 How about something savory? Or how about something sour tart? 0:00:11.320 --> 0:00:13.680 Oh no, no, no, no no. I think what you 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:16.440 need is some ou mommy in your mouth. So we're 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:21.160 gonna go back to August and learn all about this 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:26.320 new taste profile. It's actually not new. How ummy works. 0:00:31.520 --> 0:00:34.320 Welcome to Stuff you should know A production of I 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:43.120 Heart Radio. Hey, I'm welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:47.839 Charles W Chuck Bryant, and Jerry and so this is 0:00:47.920 --> 0:00:51.080 stuff you should I tell you about to change the 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:55.000 name of the show right there on a whim. No no, no, 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:58.600 all right, that's a very meaty and savory of you. 0:01:00.800 --> 0:01:03.280 Can you smell my juices I'm cooking in them. You 0:01:03.360 --> 0:01:07.800 smell like fish stock? Oh yeah, yeah, you know. I 0:01:07.840 --> 0:01:11.360 did a Don't be Dumb on Ketchup the origin of Ketchup, 0:01:12.120 --> 0:01:13.800 the good one, and it actually Oh you saw that? 0:01:13.880 --> 0:01:15.959 Sure you watched this? Of course I do. I had 0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:18.880 no idea. I'm your biggest fan, you're one of the 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:22.039 well I know, I'm one of those people. It's like, 0:01:22.080 --> 0:01:24.120 this guy is so dumb, what kind of I don't 0:01:24.120 --> 0:01:26.800 get it? Get through these What is he acting like that? 0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:28.520 But I just keep watching them. I can't help it. 0:01:28.720 --> 0:01:30.920 So you saw the one about ketchup, and you know 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:35.240 about ketchy up the Vietnamese fish sauce that actually serves 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:39.560 as the basis for ketchup. Yes, the American condiment, which 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:42.720 is not the number one selling condiment in America is 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:47.120 also know what is it? Mayonnaise? Oh? Yes? Did you 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:50.440 know that I love mayonnaise? Certainly you didn't. What kind 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:53.120 dukes is your brain? Right? Well, I'm dukes, But I'm 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:55.480 just I'm gonna I find myself a defender of mayonnaise 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:58.880 because my whole life people have just thought it was gross. 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:02.520 Not everyone you would do well in, like France or Belgium, Buddy, Yeah, 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:05.200 like on a hamburger and hot dog, people like, because 0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:07.400 I don't like ketchup and people think I'm weird. Oh no, 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:11.160 you need some ketchup too, Not that much. I've also found, recently, 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:14.040 as a grown up adult, a real live one that like, 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:17.760 you can replace ketchup with tomatoes and it tastes maybe 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:22.720 even better, depending on the ketchup. You mean on a burger, Yes, 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:26.600 instead of both, you just mean no ketchup. You can 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:28.680 put in both. I'm not I'm not opposed to it. No, 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:32.560 it just it I've found And it was a big 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:37.320 surprise to me, a really big surprise that if you 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:40.560 just put tomatoes, a good tomato on and no ketchup, 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:43.600 you're actually creating the taste that you're looking for with 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:48.000 ketchup that just misses it slightly because it's got more 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:52.800 than tomatoes in it, right. It's really, again, very surprising 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:55.400 to me, even though I realized, of course that tomato 0:02:55.600 --> 0:02:58.560 is made from ketchup is made from tomatoes, Like, I 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:01.400 haven't made that connection, just didn't realize how good just 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:04.480 tomatoes were on a burger without ketchup. Yeah, I don't 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:07.480 like raw tomatoes either, so I wouldn't do that. And 0:03:07.560 --> 0:03:11.000 you can't dip our French right in a tomato. Well, no, 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:13.560 I'm not opposed to catch up. I'll still use ketchup 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:17.079 not here, especially for dipping fries. I'm cool with that. 0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:19.240 I'm not down and ketch up here is what I'm 0:03:19.280 --> 0:03:22.440 trying to say. I just think that tomatoes are great 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:24.760 on a burger, but I also like Mayo two I 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:27.720 think is ultimately the point that started me off on this. Yeah, 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:31.480 I like tomato sauce, like red sauce. But I don't 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:36.320 like raw tomatoes or just whole tomatoes. They're slimy, and 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:39.600 I'm not supposed to eat them like an apple or anything. Uh, 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:41.560 if you've been doing that, I can understand why you 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:43.720 don't like raw tomatoes. Some people do. Some people to 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:46.600 slice them and eat them on a plate. You're not 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:48.920 just holding it in your hand, eating it like an apple. 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:51.280 Look at a monster does that? That's what I'm saying, 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:55.440 a monster. Kaiser Willhelm the second Yeah, he was, he 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:59.480 was known, all right. So all of that to say, 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:05.080 O mommy, oh mommy, Oh mama, this one's about O mommy. 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:11.880 The fifth flavor, the fifth beetle, out of what they 0:04:11.920 --> 0:04:17.960 now say is six fat fat carbon dioxide is also 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:23.080 one two oh. We supposedly they found receptors that are 0:04:23.400 --> 0:04:27.360 tailored specifically dis sensing carbon dioxide on the tongue, and 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:30.279 that ultimately that makes it qualify as a taste. So 0:04:30.320 --> 0:04:33.600 they're gonna be seven. Now. I think there's way more. 0:04:33.880 --> 0:04:36.240 I don't know why science has been so stingy or 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:39.080 so reluctant to accept the idea that we have more 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:42.960 than four flavor receptors or more four taste receptors. But 0:04:43.680 --> 0:04:48.400 oh mommy was isolated in the in the beginning of 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:51.920 the twentieth century, and it wasn't for almost eighty years 0:04:51.960 --> 0:04:55.480 before the West finally accepted it. Ah. Yeah. Part of 0:04:55.480 --> 0:04:58.440 the reasons because it was the research was written in Japanese. 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:02.520 Well it's okay, that's maybe something to do with it. Uh. 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:07.360 And part of the issue was that um it's umami 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:10.040 is very mild and taste, and when you have um 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:13.640 high concentrations of it to increase set flavor, you've got 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:17.920 salty and sour mixed in. So I think it just 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:23.159 confounded the West. They're like, what we get sour, we 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:27.719 get salty, we get sweet, for sure, why we even 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:32.880 get bitter, but we don't get this other thing. Nope, 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:35.880 and we're not going over five. So you better make 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:38.880 the sumami stuff good. That's what the West said, dumb 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:42.520 Western scientists and food scientists. So chuck, I think we 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:45.160 let the cat out of the bag a little bit. 0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:49.240 Um The Japanese are the ones who first discovered umami. 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:55.039 It's right comes from the word umi uh, roughly translated 0:05:55.080 --> 0:05:59.480 as delicious. Uh. Chefs, if you talk to a chef 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:02.960 and Mommy's big hot thing. Right now, they'll say, maybe 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:06.479 it's like a mushroomy thing. It's like an earthy it's 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:10.040 it's it is very subtle. Like I said, it's musty. Yeah, musty, 0:06:10.160 --> 0:06:14.480 which doesn't sound appealing. No, but it also makes sweet different. 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:17.880 That's oh, Mommy's big great quality. And I think that's 0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:21.359 probably one of the reasons why it was hard for 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:25.159 the West to accept it is ou Mommy's big thing 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:31.640 is synergizing. It's a supporting cast member almost yeah, it takes. Yes, 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:37.120 it is. It's like, um, Bud Bundy, Okay, not a 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:40.400 leading guy, but you put him in an ensemble, He's 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:42.720 gonna bring everybody else up. It's what he's known for. 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:47.000 I would give a million American dollars to be inside 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:50.919 your brain during that five ish seconds of your spinning 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:54.560 around searching for supporting cast member and ending up at 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:57.440 Bud Bundy. Will you come back in twenty years and 0:06:57.480 --> 0:06:59.480 give me a million dollars and I will let you. 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:03.880 Man would be amazing. So um with like salty sour, 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:06.159 we get again, we get those things. They stand on 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:09.440 their own. Umami actually has a very mild and not 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:14.280 necessarily like pleasurable flavor on its own. Yeah, you don't 0:07:14.280 --> 0:07:17.400 want something that's like, oh, this is just umami flavored, right, 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:21.600 But it is almost like it's designed to interact with 0:07:21.680 --> 0:07:27.120 other flavors, especially salty and especially sweet. Agreed, and ummy 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:30.720 can even interact with itself and all of a sudden 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:34.880 it takes what was just like ho home day and 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:38.080 turns it into the greatest day of your life with 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:41.160 one bite of chitake mush with some hot umami on 0:07:41.320 --> 0:07:46.560 umami action. Uh. So it is nothing new, obviously, It's 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:49.160 not like you can just identify a new taste. Um 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:52.720 It's been around. Um. The Romans and the Greeks before 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:57.720 them enjoyed something called garum and that is a sauce that, boy, 0:07:57.760 --> 0:08:00.480 you want to talk about how you find some weird 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:03.720 food wise, they were gutting fish and they said, let's 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:07.240 take this fish cuts and blood, and let's salt it 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:09.960 and leave it out in the sun for three months 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:13.040 and see what happened. See what happened, and you have 0:08:13.120 --> 0:08:17.560 to eat it, eat it you, uh, and someone eventually 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:19.920 ate it. They strained the liquid from the top of it, 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:22.600 and they said, boy, this sauce is this is garam sauce. 0:08:22.880 --> 0:08:26.280 This this good stuff is delicious. Garam means delicious in 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:29.440 ancient Roman. I think so. And it is uh that 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:35.760 was umami personified um because how umami was discovered. Uh 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:38.559 in nineteen o seven, there was a brilliant chemist name 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:45.880 uh Kikuna Akita s A right that a e. It's 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:49.680 got an extra little pop to it. Got you? But yeah, 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:54.360 you did it, thank you. So he was a chemist 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:57.839 and uh he worked at the Imperial University. I'm sorry 0:08:57.840 --> 0:08:59.960 he was. Yeah, he was a professor at the Imperior 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:05.000 Real University of Tokyo. And he was perplexed that he 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:08.760 tasted something one day and said, this is not any 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:12.200 of those four flavors. No, no, no, I know this 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:15.400 is different. He was all about the dashi. And dashi 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:19.240 is the basis of miso soups, lots of other stuff, 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:23.000 but basically it's a fish stock made from I think 0:09:23.120 --> 0:09:29.640 tuna flakes and um combo which is dried kelp yes, 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:32.000 and they are all kinds of recipes for a dashi base. 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:35.280 And it's in a lot of things from sauces and 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:38.280 like soba noodle sauces to like you said, mi, so 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:42.320 um really really big ingredient in Japanese cuisine, right, And 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:44.760 this guy was like, this little boy loves this dashi 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:47.520 and I want to know exactly what is making it 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:51.240 so wonderful. So, since he was a chemist, he took 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:55.920 I think something like twelve kilograms of dashi and boiled 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:59.280 it down ten of them, isolated some stuff. The first 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:02.040 thing that came out were some obvious ones that he 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:06.000 clearly discarded. Is not responsible for your mommy, because there 0:10:06.000 --> 0:10:08.960 were salts. He's like, no, it's not that. It's not salt. 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:12.320 We understand salt. It's not salt. I know for effect, 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:14.080 it's not salt. What else is in here? He starts 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:16.560 sorting through it, right, Well, didn't he separate the dashi 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:19.520 into its parts and then break those down? Yeah? Okay, 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:23.080 I just jumped ahead of step to make a terrible chemist. 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:26.400 He's on he's on kelp at this point, one of 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:29.480 the ingredients. Okay. And so with the kelp is where 0:10:29.520 --> 0:10:31.800 he found those two salts and your right. He was like, well, 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:34.240 I know these flavors and they're not what I've been 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:37.480 experiencing on my tongue. Now they're old news news. So 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:40.640 he looked a little further and he found well, wait 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:46.000 a minute, what is this. It's glutamic acid. And he's like, maybe, 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:50.280 but glutamic acid has a sour taste and that's weird, 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:54.160 Like it can't be glutamic acid. It doesn't quite make sense. 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:57.360 So he added some more stuff, came up with a 0:10:57.400 --> 0:11:00.040 chemical reaction and what popped out on the other and 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:05.080 is what you and I call monosodium glutamate MSG. And 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:08.600 he figured out that it's not glutamate acid, it's not 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:12.640 the salt, but it's actually glutamate. But then he figured 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:15.079 out even further, like glutamate. That doesn't make any sense, 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:18.760 Like glutamate glutamate doesn't work. Then he realized it's not 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:22.000 the protein that's giving it the taste. It's the amino 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:25.920 acids that actually make up proteins that give you mommy 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:29.920 its taste. Boom, So glutamate, I'm sorry, isn't amino acid 0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:34.600 right right right? And that's one of the things that 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:36.280 gives you mommy has taste. This is the first thing 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:40.319 that was discovered, um to give you mommy its taste. Yeah, 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:43.079 and that was the kelp. So you know, dashi has 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:46.720 a different components. So he had a student he said, 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:51.880 you know what, let me get that the dried tuna flakes. Um, yeah, 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:55.240 bonito delicious. There's different kinds, but bonito is definitely one 0:11:55.280 --> 0:11:59.600 of them. Um. And he says, let me identify these components. 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:03.880 And he found was something called uh, you want to 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:06.960 try that one and a signate? Is that right? Yeah? 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:09.400 I think that is right. Man. It's a nucleic acid. 0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:11.840 Like you say yes. So he's like, boom, I've got 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:16.360 number two. And then in nineteen sixty another scientist named 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:21.760 Akira uh kuney knaka. He worked for Yamasa, the famous 0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:26.800 soy saucy a and now you're just showing off, he was, um. 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:29.440 And he went on to work in pharmaceuticals. It was interesting, 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:32.080 is the chemist. Yeah, but it's like you work for 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:34.439 soy sauce and then you go to work for a 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:38.440 pharmaceutical company. Right, I'm good at both things. But you're right, 0:12:38.440 --> 0:12:41.240 it's all this chemistry. Um. So he said, you know what, 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:45.760 I can identify a third thing called guanai late. It's 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:50.040 another nucleotide in those shataki mushrooms you were talking about. Yeah, 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:54.960 and it's not like just bonito flakes, combo and staki 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:58.160 mushrooms are the only things that produce your mommy taste. 0:12:58.280 --> 0:13:00.200 These are just the three things that those guys into 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:03.719 town and isolated different stuff out of right. Yeah, I 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:05.800 always want to see Banita apple bum when you say 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:09.840 Bonita tribe called quest After all these years, they keep 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:13.640 making reference, they keep making appearances in episodes lately. Oh yeah, 0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:16.360 they have been. Huh you mentioned him in Hula Hoops. Yeah, 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:19.440 this one. You can't remember which one we talked about 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:22.800 the scenario, Oh, what's the what's the what's the scenario? 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:25.680 You know what? My friend Justin whom you also know 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:31.720 his mother actually left her wallet and Elsa Gundo. No boy, 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:34.520 and he even called me. He was like, dude, guess 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:38.559 what happened? My mother left a wallet and Elsa Gundo. 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:42.240 It's crazy. Yeah, it was pretty remarkable. We should probably 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:43.960 take a break, Yeah, and then we'll talk a little 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:46.600 bit more about the science of taste right after this. 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:07.640 So we have done an episode on taste that was great. 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:10.240 It was great. It's called taste and how it works 0:14:10.760 --> 0:14:15.000 from July right, highly recommended. Yeah, but we're gonna go 0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:16.800 over a little bit more here. Well, yeah, I think 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:19.520 if we're gonna talk about mommy. We'd be big jerks 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:22.760 if we just assumed you know everything there is to 0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:24.920 know about. Yeah, we got to talk about what's called 0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:28.280 the gustatory system. Okay, so um, when we're talking about 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:31.600 taste specifically, that's separate from flavor, which we'll get to. 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:36.120 But taste begins on the tongue, right, And on the 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:38.480 tongue you're gonna find what we like to call taste 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:43.000 buds or pepi a. The p a have taste buds 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:46.320 on them, right. Yes, there are three main types of papa. 0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:51.360 You have the fun fungy form, mushroom shaped, the folly eight. 0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:53.240 Those are the ridges and grooves at the back of 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:57.160 the tongue, and the circumvallate and those are circular at 0:14:57.160 --> 0:14:59.960 the front front end of the tongue, right. And then 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:03.280 some papi a have a couple of taste buds. Some 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:06.840 have hundreds of taste buds. And then when you look 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:11.080 into the taste buds themselves, um, they have receptor cells. 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:13.560 And what's interesting is when you think about a taste bud, 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:15.480 you'd be like, oh, well, there's a salty taste bud, 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:20.560 sweet taste bud, ou mommy ou mommy, sweet sour, bitter, 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:24.960 that right, carbon dioxide, So that's not the case. As 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:28.720 a matter of fact, taste bud has different receptor selves, 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:32.240 and these different receptor cells can be tuned to accept 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:36.120 or sense different types of taste. Wasn't it the shape 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:39.440 if I remember correctly that, well, that was with the smell. 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:43.880 Smell and tasted closely related, and we should say that 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:46.680 the spoiler alert for the taste episode. We're not a 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:50.320 harm percent sure how we sense taste or smell um, 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:55.640 but yes, the the predominant theory is that that a 0:15:56.040 --> 0:16:00.840 specific type of odorant or taste molecule will interact with 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:04.200 a specific type of receptor and when it does, the 0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:10.360 chemical in that molecule, that food molecule um unlocks that 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:14.920 receptor and by doing that, it's translated into an electrical impulse. Boom. 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:18.840 So you chew your food up, gets spitty and saliva covered, 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:21.800 and it breaks it down, cut your tongue and that's 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:26.840 when that transduction. Uh, those electrical impulses are sent to 0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:30.800 the n ST the solitary tract of the brain, sorry, 0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:33.320 the nucleus of the solitary tract of the brain. Yeah, 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:35.240 that's where it all happens. That's when it puts all 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:39.480 these different tastes together and says delicious, I like this 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:43.680 or more to the point, and that's probably going to 0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:47.000 kill you, so stop eating that. Yeah. And like we said, 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:49.680 taste is different than flavor. Taste is just one aspect 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:53.920 of flavor. For a food item or really anything to 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:57.040 have a flavor, it includes not just the taste, but 0:16:57.160 --> 0:17:00.360 also the smell, the side of it, the temperature of it, 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:03.800 how it feels, is the firm is it a little 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:07.720 too gelatinous? Um. These are all things that your brain 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:12.320 takes into account, um, including things like memories that you 0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:15.159 form from having it before. Cotton candy when I was 0:17:15.200 --> 0:17:18.119 a kid gives me great memories. Yeah, So that plays 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:21.840 a part in flavor exactly, like you can like it 0:17:21.920 --> 0:17:25.240 releases some different aspect of it that only you can 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:28.000 experience that flavor. Yeah, Like if you had a cotton 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:31.520 candy jelly bean, it would conjure up that memory and 0:17:31.760 --> 0:17:34.600 that would be part of the flavor experience yea, or 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:37.320 if it's one of your past lives. So that's kind 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:41.240 of the science of taste. And with your mommy specifically. Um. Again, 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:44.720 one of the things that the West was having trouble 0:17:44.800 --> 0:17:47.560 with this accepting that ou mommy was a real thing 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:53.000 was that there wasn't any um what's called psychophysical evidence 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:56.280 that ou momi was its own taste. Right. For a 0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:58.480 long time, they thought it was just a component of 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:02.680 salty taste, because monosodium glutamate is a type of salt, right, 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:07.840 It's a salt protein combination that makes MSG. And for 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:12.000 many many years this was the only um this is 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:16.320 the only source of umami taste. But finally in the eighties, 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:19.440 once they had the first international symposium on New Mommy, 0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:22.679 it was a real thing. That was a party. Um 0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:25.040 the I'll bet it was too because it was in Hawaii, 0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:28.680 and the Japanese and Americans love Hawaii, so I bet 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:31.480 everybody was partying down there. They started to do studies 0:18:31.480 --> 0:18:34.159 in the early eighties and they found, oh, actually, no, 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:38.760 there are specific receptor cells on the human tongue. And 0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:41.320 it turns out not just in human tongues, but mostly 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:46.120 human tongues that are designed or geared towards accepting we're 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:50.160 sensing umami tastes. That's right. Those are the g protein 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:54.840 coupled receptors g pc rs, and that is for sweet, bitter, 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:58.480 and umami and uh, sour and salty those a little different. 0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:02.920 Those sort of flow through ion channels, which is way 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:05.000 over my head to be honest. Well, it's just like 0:19:05.040 --> 0:19:07.560 if a molecule is a positive charge of a negative charge, 0:19:07.760 --> 0:19:10.359 if it's if it's a positive eye on it has 0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:12.480 positive charge, it's not going to make it through all 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:14.240 sorts of the channels. It's only going to make it 0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:18.280 through positive channels. It's not it's simple, I know, but 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:20.199 as far as relating that to a taste, it's just 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:22.320 sort of I'll can think of his manage. Well, that's 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:24.760 the whole thing. It's like you said, It's like it's 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:28.159 like your brain just turns to manage it's transduction is 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:32.680 taking in electric chemical and turning it into an electrical charge. 0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:36.240 I just think that's endlessly fascinating. Oh sure, the senses 0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:38.639 and how they work, it's like it's amazing, But not 0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:42.560 just that electricity and electric electrical generation, like remember that 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:46.880 episode Electricity maybe one of our best if you ask me. Agreed, 0:19:47.400 --> 0:19:49.640 all right, So what way? What we have here are 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:53.919 three kinds of receptor cells that they know are that 0:19:54.160 --> 0:19:58.199 that respond to this combination that makes up what MSG 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:04.080 is I'm sorry. What umami is it's that ate, the 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:07.119 gwen elate in the MSG. And what they think is 0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:10.480 that they actually hold on to these these compounds hold 0:20:10.520 --> 0:20:14.840 on longer, which is why you get these interesting combinations. 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:19.879 When you have like, uh, cheese with an apple or 0:20:19.960 --> 0:20:22.919 cheese on an apple pie. It takes sweet and like 0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:26.080 doesn't just make it sweeter, it makes it like sweet 0:20:26.119 --> 0:20:28.880 in a different way, right exactly. Um. And the same 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:32.080 thing again, when when you mix together different types of 0:20:32.160 --> 0:20:35.600 either amino acids or nucleic acids that create a new 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:39.080 mommy taste, they magnify this ummmy nous of this is 0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:43.239 meatiness of the whole thing. And um. Also with I 0:20:43.240 --> 0:20:47.600 believe salty too, Oh mommy and salty mixed together. Um. 0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:51.800 The fact that it it hangs onto that that molecule 0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:55.240 longer and it just leaves that charge going, then that 0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:59.000 sweet can come and go, but it's it's affected by it. 0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:01.760 Food science is so interesting, it is. And we're gonna 0:21:01.760 --> 0:21:04.200 talk a little more about food science and evolution right 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:24.480 after this. All right, So here's one thing I didn't get, 0:21:24.760 --> 0:21:27.320 and I reread this a few times. I get the 0:21:27.359 --> 0:21:29.959 first part of this, which is as follows is that 0:21:30.880 --> 0:21:34.440 people have long thought that tastes had a part in 0:21:34.520 --> 0:21:37.560 evolution in that we were just wired to know that 0:21:37.600 --> 0:21:40.720 if something sweet is probably okay to eat and that 0:21:40.760 --> 0:21:43.920 will give us nutrition, something really bitter may be dangerous 0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:46.080 to eat, that might be poisonous. And of course there's 0:21:46.119 --> 0:21:49.119 exceptions to all of this. Those are pretty good general 0:21:49.200 --> 0:21:54.199 rules when it comes to UH evolution. Right that that 0:21:54.280 --> 0:21:57.000 was the evolution explanation for the sense of taste, right, Yeah. 0:21:57.000 --> 0:21:59.000 But what I don't get and is where in here 0:21:59.040 --> 0:22:05.520 does it explain the evolutionary UH method of umami? Like 0:22:05.560 --> 0:22:08.040 what role it played? I got this? You ready? Well 0:22:08.119 --> 0:22:10.280 is it this part about cooking? Yes? Oh it was 0:22:10.400 --> 0:22:13.080 very poorly stated, it really was. But it's really interesting 0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:16.480 when you realize this that so you said that ou 0:22:16.520 --> 0:22:19.600 mommy is is like one of the newer tastes or 0:22:19.640 --> 0:22:23.400 something like that, It actually is. Yeah, they couldn't figure out, 0:22:23.400 --> 0:22:25.399 like what part did this have an evolution? No, but 0:22:25.520 --> 0:22:29.000 even before that, like if you look at it evolutionarily speaking, 0:22:29.200 --> 0:22:33.520 it's it's actually very old. Supposedly the receptors are very old, 0:22:34.040 --> 0:22:36.679 like four million years old or something like that. But 0:22:36.800 --> 0:22:39.679 the idea that we can taste you mommy, or us 0:22:39.880 --> 0:22:44.960 tasting you mommy is very actually fairly recent because ou 0:22:45.080 --> 0:22:49.600 mommy is released by cooking food. Like if you eat 0:22:49.640 --> 0:22:54.080 a bunch of raw hamburger, that's not gonna be umami tasting. 0:22:54.080 --> 0:22:56.119 It's not gonna taste very good. But you cook that 0:22:56.200 --> 0:23:00.760 hamburger and you have molecularly changed it's kind position. You've 0:23:00.840 --> 0:23:05.639 unlocked some of the proteins into its constituent amino acids, 0:23:05.920 --> 0:23:09.280 and all of a sudden you've got umami taste. It's 0:23:09.320 --> 0:23:12.240 like a caramelizing it onion is completely different than the 0:23:12.280 --> 0:23:16.399 taste of a raw onion or even a just regular 0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:18.840 grilled onion. Yeah, and the big mystery of all this, 0:23:19.000 --> 0:23:22.280 evolutionarily speaking, is that what you're gaining or one of 0:23:22.320 --> 0:23:26.720 the biggest sources of umami taste is glutamate. Well that's great, 0:23:27.320 --> 0:23:29.760 but the human body produces tons of glutamate, so it 0:23:29.760 --> 0:23:31.920 wouldn't make sense that we would have a taste receptor 0:23:31.960 --> 0:23:34.080 to find it in nature because we got enough in 0:23:34.080 --> 0:23:38.000 our body. Well, you need other essential amino acids. And 0:23:38.400 --> 0:23:41.760 if it figures that the best way to get amino 0:23:41.880 --> 0:23:46.240 acids is to cook or ferment food, you want you 0:23:46.280 --> 0:23:49.800 need you need fire because amino acids can be bound 0:23:50.000 --> 0:23:53.000 to proteins and we don't absorb them as well, or 0:23:53.000 --> 0:23:56.000 our body spends a lot more energy of breaking them 0:23:56.000 --> 0:23:59.280 down and digesting them than if we cook them or 0:23:59.320 --> 0:24:02.280 if we forment them. So man invents fire, man starts 0:24:02.320 --> 0:24:06.240 to cook food, Man advances more rapidly. Yes, that's one 0:24:06.240 --> 0:24:09.760 of the ideas that, um, why our brain developed as 0:24:09.760 --> 0:24:12.679 well as it did, or we became as intelligent as 0:24:12.720 --> 0:24:15.320 we did, was from cooking food. So we were able 0:24:15.640 --> 0:24:18.920 to um break down our food a lot more easily 0:24:19.160 --> 0:24:23.080 and gain from it, absorb it, and um basically grow 0:24:23.160 --> 0:24:27.440 huge brains. That it came from cooking. And where where 0:24:27.440 --> 0:24:30.000