WEBVTT - The Great Sheffield Tree War

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<v Speaker 1>Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 2>Elizabeth Zarain Burnette got a question for him, A girl, Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>you know what's ridiculous?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh do I yes? I do? Okay AI Yeah, fully ridiculous.

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<v Speaker 3>Alvin Iverson Yes, for many reasons. Artificial intelligence.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, the other AI. We should call it that, the

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<v Speaker 2>other AI.

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<v Speaker 3>The other AI. Well, so the other AI truth. And

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<v Speaker 3>but what's really ridiculous is when you kind of turn

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<v Speaker 3>AI loose to write things or draw images. You know

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<v Speaker 3>we've all missed totally. No, it's not well, I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>unless you're going to mash up AI and an obituary.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I'm over here like Kurt Gibson going around second

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<v Speaker 2>pumping my arm.

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<v Speaker 3>So AI. So someone had a I write this obituary

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<v Speaker 3>and it is so amazing, and I it and I'm

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<v Speaker 3>going to read it to you, okay. Brenda Tent retired

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<v Speaker 3>from living at the age of old, surrounded by family

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<v Speaker 3>and natural causes. A librarian from birth, Brenda was an

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<v Speaker 3>avid collector of dust. She had a sweetheart and married

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<v Speaker 3>her high school. She loved having hobbies and helping her

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<v Speaker 3>sons to be disadvantaged youths. She had no horses, but

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<v Speaker 3>thought she did. The church gave her a choir because

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<v Speaker 3>she sang like a bird and looked like a bird,

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<v Speaker 3>and Brenda was a bird. She owed us so many poems.

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<v Speaker 3>The funeral will be held in nineteen seventy seven at

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<v Speaker 3>Heaven in lieu of flowers. Send Brenda more.

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<v Speaker 2>Life, ever.

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<v Speaker 3>I love she had no horses, but thought she did poems.

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<v Speaker 3>I think we found biobituary when the time comes. Oh yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>it's perfect. So my fine feathered friend is ridiculous.

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<v Speaker 2>That's amazing. Okay, Well that segue is really nicely into

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<v Speaker 2>what I want to tell you today, which is equally ridiculous.

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<v Speaker 2>If you have a moment, You got a moment, Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>all right. As storytellers, Elizabeth, yes, we both know how

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<v Speaker 2>one word, just one ill turned phrase, can ruin a

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<v Speaker 2>whole story. Oh yeah, right, and sometimes like it's just

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<v Speaker 2>even a mispronounced word, like on my.

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<v Speaker 3>Part all the time, sometimes a little bit on purpose.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh now, in this story, one misunderstood word, it led

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<v Speaker 2>to a multi year war. It was a bloody affair

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<v Speaker 2>there for a while. It was really bad, like private

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<v Speaker 2>security guards were scared for their lives. Elders were going

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<v Speaker 2>over the barricades to attack the police. It was lawless.

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<v Speaker 2>It was chaos, Elizabeth, it was wild, and it all

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<v Speaker 2>came down.

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<v Speaker 4>To two words, mature trees.

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<v Speaker 2>This is Ridiculous Crime A podcast about absurd and outrageous capers.

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<v Speaker 2>Heiss and cons. It's always ninety nine percent murder free

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<v Speaker 2>and one hundred percent ridiculous. Elizabeth Zaren. I saw this story.

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<v Speaker 2>I told you it tickled my fancy because it kind

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<v Speaker 2>of has everything. And I say everything, I mean it

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<v Speaker 2>has like a little of everything. And you know how

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<v Speaker 2>I love stories that I have a little every sure, right, Well,

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<v Speaker 2>this one it isn't some you know, sprawling account of

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<v Speaker 2>mid century America. It isn't a deep dive into the

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen seventies or nineteen eighties and like either a weird

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<v Speaker 2>religious culture or some drug thing. No, okay, this isn't

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<v Speaker 2>a hinge of history story about the sixties. Nor is

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<v Speaker 2>it a turn of the last century where we look

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<v Speaker 2>back at the way we once were and how we

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<v Speaker 2>are still the same. No, Elizabeth, No, miss Dunton. This

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<v Speaker 2>time this is pure twenty first century lunacy. It's happening

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<v Speaker 2>now pretty much. Oh wow, Yeah, exactly what it says

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<v Speaker 2>on the tin. It's a war over trees, Yes, the

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<v Speaker 2>Great Sheffield Tree War.

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<v Speaker 3>You know the city of Sheffield, not intimately, I'm aware

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<v Speaker 3>of it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's in South Yorkshire, named after the River Sheaf,

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<v Speaker 2>which is the city is built around. So what's Sheffield like, well, Elizabeth,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I've never been there. I don't know, but.

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<v Speaker 3>From what I've read, beautiful city, never been.

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<v Speaker 2>There, very lush with trees, very green. Prior to the story,

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<v Speaker 2>all I knew about Sheffield is it's home to my

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<v Speaker 2>favorite English football club, Sheffield Wednesday.

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<v Speaker 3>Did you do Google Earth like.

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<v Speaker 2>Like you do and just take like a tour of

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<v Speaker 2>all the streets and just drive.

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<v Speaker 3>Around and like a Google you do your due diligence, my.

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<v Speaker 2>Due diligence of a Google street tour of the city. No,

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<v Speaker 2>because you'll find out why. Okay, yeah, but I did.

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<v Speaker 2>I did go look into something I was interested in,

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<v Speaker 2>which was Sheffield Wednesday. Yeah. You know the blue and

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<v Speaker 2>striped iconic kit You know them, like the Argentina of England.

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<v Speaker 2>They used to be Premier League, so you probably would

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<v Speaker 2>have known them, like you know, back in like the nineties,

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<v Speaker 2>but they've since been relegated. The second teer Championship League

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<v Speaker 2>been there for like I don't know forever. In a

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<v Speaker 2>day anyway, doing research for this one, I found out

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<v Speaker 2>that my favorite football club started as an offshoot of

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<v Speaker 2>a cricket club known as the Wednesday Cricket Club.

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<v Speaker 3>Why Wednesday because they played on Wednesdays?

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<v Speaker 2>Well yes, but why Wednesday? The club was found at

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<v Speaker 2>eighteen twenty.

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<v Speaker 3>Because that's the day that you do Bible study.

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<v Speaker 2>No good guests though, but this cricket club, right, it

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<v Speaker 2>started by six cats, six dudes, right, not actual cats.

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<v Speaker 2>I know how your imagination goes. And so they only

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<v Speaker 2>had to work half days on Wednesdays. Wednesday half day

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<v Speaker 2>eighteen twenty work style huh wow. Right, So they'd meet

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<v Speaker 2>up and they'd cricket it up, and thus the Wednesday

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<v Speaker 2>name now eighteen sixty seven, having now turned pro as cricketers.

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<v Speaker 2>Really good club apparently, the Wednesday Cricket Club started the

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<v Speaker 2>Wednesday Football Club. Why did they do this? Because they

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to stay in shape for cricket over the winter months. Okay, right,

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<v Speaker 2>so yeah, the Owls become a club boom. Nineteen twenty

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<v Speaker 2>nine they become the Wednesday Football Club aka Sheffield Wednesday

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<v Speaker 2>Football Club. The rest is history, joyous Sheffield Wednesday history.

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<v Speaker 2>But that's not why I'm here today. Because soccer matches,

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<v Speaker 2>that's typically what we think of. We thought about, Oh,

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<v Speaker 2>this is where we're gonna find people mixing it up

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<v Speaker 2>with the police and private security. Actually, no, no, this

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't Hooligan's in this story putting security guards on blast, Elizabeth.

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<v Speaker 2>This was tree loving seniors. Yes, So let's get to

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<v Speaker 2>these trees.

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<v Speaker 3>The Sheffield Dangerous game.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, they're wild, wild, these humans, especially when they get

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<v Speaker 2>old and cagy. Now, Sheffield is apparently mad with the

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<v Speaker 2>green I mean, just stupid, but trees. Like from what

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<v Speaker 2>I found, sixty one percent of Sheffield is considered a

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<v Speaker 2>green space.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh that's cool, that's wild.

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<v Speaker 2>I thought those were great. They have like two hundred

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<v Speaker 2>and fifty parks and gardens they know, Okay. I found

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<v Speaker 2>also a count four point five million trees. That's how

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<v Speaker 2>many trees.

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<v Speaker 3>They have in one city.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, in the human population for comparison, five hundred and

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<v Speaker 2>fifty thousand people. Wow, it's a lot of trees per person. Trees, right,

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<v Speaker 2>So the afore mentioned four point five million trees, those

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<v Speaker 2>weren't enough for the locals. They're like Hey, we want more,

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<v Speaker 2>or at least we want those four point five. Do

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<v Speaker 2>not cut me down. And thus they went to war.

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<v Speaker 2>Some would have said Sheffield had too many trees. Coincidentally,

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<v Speaker 2>those are the same people with the authority to decide

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<v Speaker 2>how many of Sheffield's trees should be and would be

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<v Speaker 2>chopped down. Now, you see, the trees were being blamed

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<v Speaker 2>for all the potholes in Sheffield. The streets were just

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<v Speaker 2>littered with them. Apparently they started calling the town Pothole

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<v Speaker 2>City and they're like, no, we prefer Steel City. Oh no,

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<v Speaker 2>this is terrible. Pothole City is a terrible nickname. We

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<v Speaker 2>must do something. So something was done. Elizabeth, the city

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<v Speaker 2>council met, and then they met, and they met, and

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<v Speaker 2>they met some more, and they met a bunch right.

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<v Speaker 2>This took years, but eventually studies were commissioned, reports, and

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<v Speaker 2>then they met some more more years of planning. Finally

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<v Speaker 2>a general plan of action is announced and it's funded.

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<v Speaker 2>So the city council they were proud to announce a

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<v Speaker 2>new one point two billion pound road improvement project. They

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<v Speaker 2>called it Streets Ahead or Streets Ahead.

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<v Speaker 3>Wait, billion billion with a B, yeah with a.

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<v Speaker 2>B, not with an N.

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<v Speaker 3>One city.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, a lot of roads, bridges, big project. It's a

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<v Speaker 2>multi year project. This was twenty twelve when they announced

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<v Speaker 2>this funded project. The streets ahead, right, I mean I

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<v Speaker 2>will stop that, I.

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<v Speaker 3>Prompted, very Australian.

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<v Speaker 2>Not well whatever it's supposed to be Cockney leading to Australia.

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<v Speaker 2>Well no, whatever, Fine. The money was earmarked to upgrade

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<v Speaker 2>the city sidewalks, Elizabeth street lights, bridges, roads, So one

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<v Speaker 2>point two billion pounds wow. Now to repair the roads. Obviously,

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<v Speaker 2>this plan called for the mass removal of trees that

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<v Speaker 2>lined these roads and were causing the potholes the streets.

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<v Speaker 2>They would split sidewalks and they caused the potholes by

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<v Speaker 2>lifting up the road, or so the city council believed.

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<v Speaker 2>They never expected their infrastructure improvement project would actually become

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<v Speaker 2>the start of a year's long war. No one anticipated that, right,

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<v Speaker 2>But as far as the city council saw it is

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<v Speaker 2>all simple. Old trees would be cut down, new trees

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<v Speaker 2>would be planted. Boom boom boom. What's the big problem?

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<v Speaker 2>But Elizabeth saplings, baby trees. They are not the same

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<v Speaker 2>as full grown trees.

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<v Speaker 3>That's true, right, They're smaller versions.

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<v Speaker 2>Just looking at them, you can tell. But in a

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<v Speaker 2>larger sense full grown trees. We're talking like forty fifty

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<v Speaker 2>foot tall trees. Right. Oh wow, yeah, these are like

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<v Speaker 2>some real big daddy.

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<v Speaker 3>Say, not your typical urban tree.

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<v Speaker 2>No, these are like British old school like one hundred

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<v Speaker 2>year old trees. Right. And now these trees would be

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<v Speaker 2>home to numerous species like you know, squirrels, birds, bugs, whatnot.

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<v Speaker 2>Full grown tree obviously it offers shade to the whole environment.

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<v Speaker 2>There's heat reduction because of that's not a big problem

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<v Speaker 2>in England, but still holsho. But it helps with rainfall

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<v Speaker 2>run off and controlling them.

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<v Speaker 3>I thought they I thought they cut down all the

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<v Speaker 3>big trees to build the ships when England ruled the seas.

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<v Speaker 2>These are only one hundred year old trees, so they

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<v Speaker 2>were replanted.

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<v Speaker 3>These are the grandchildren of those struges when England ruled

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<v Speaker 3>the seas.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, no, actually we're gonna get into that when England

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<v Speaker 2>was you know, rule Britannia.

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<v Speaker 3>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>So the these trees, I mean like basically they look good,

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<v Speaker 2>they feel good. Everybody loves trees, right. The trees are

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<v Speaker 2>undeniably dope, and they said they can also be one

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<v Speaker 2>hundred years old, so it's to tie to the past.

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<v Speaker 2>These people are like, oh, this is our connection to

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<v Speaker 2>when we had empire and what what you know? So

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<v Speaker 2>the bureaucrats they didn't quite understand this because they were

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<v Speaker 2>trying to like quantify the value of a tree, right,

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<v Speaker 2>And it's really hard to satisfy a bureaucrat with things

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<v Speaker 2>like it just feels good. So they're like, well, we

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<v Speaker 2>need numbers. So it's to them the problem was we

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<v Speaker 2>need we need to remove the trees and replace them

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<v Speaker 2>upgrade great. Right, So the project of mass tree removal,

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<v Speaker 2>the streets Ahead project, it gets managed by this group

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<v Speaker 2>called the Highways Team. Right. They're put in charge of

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<v Speaker 2>this project. As names go, rather unimaginative, the Highways Team. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>it's also kind of vaguely bureaucratic. I don't really like.

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<v Speaker 3>It's kind of threatening to like a highwayman.

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<v Speaker 2>The Highways Team has decided all your trees must die. Anyway.

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<v Speaker 2>It kind of sounds like something from Coffka book maybeah

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<v Speaker 2>Ray Bradberry. I don't know exactly. The Highways Team these

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<v Speaker 2>trees were a resource to be managed. That's how they

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<v Speaker 2>viewed it, right. So they're like, Okay, what are we

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<v Speaker 2>gonna do, how we're going to solve this problem? And

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<v Speaker 2>how bottom line thinkers that they are mass destruction seem

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<v Speaker 2>like and I quote the easiest and cheapest option, right,

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<v Speaker 2>But this is not what the experts and their own

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<v Speaker 2>report had told them. Because the City of Council Sheffield,

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<v Speaker 2>they had commissioned to report on the tree population for

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<v Speaker 2>these four point five million trees, they determined thirty six

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<v Speaker 2>thousand of these street trees, the ones that actually would

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<v Speaker 2>you know, be problems for the street or lined the streets,

0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:24.679
<v Speaker 2>they were the ones that they focused on. Thirty six

0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:27.600
<v Speaker 2>thousand of the four point five million. Highway teams like, okay,

0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:30.360
<v Speaker 2>here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna replace them. Now,

0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:33.800
<v Speaker 2>we need to replace a percentage and they're like, okay,

0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:37.840
<v Speaker 2>how many a large proportion And so the reports gave

0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:40.880
<v Speaker 2>an actual hardcore number of this thirty six thousand trees,

0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:44.120
<v Speaker 2>they said three percent. You should probably replace about three percent.

0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:46.480
<v Speaker 2>That's how many are dead, dying or diseased. Okay, the

0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:49.520
<v Speaker 2>rest can be uh, you know, managed, but these need

0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:51.920
<v Speaker 2>to be immediately felled. That's what the Brits would say,

0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:54.240
<v Speaker 2>we would say chopped down. But anyway, the trees had

0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:57.959
<v Speaker 2>to go. So three percent, that's about one thousand and eighty.

0:11:57.679 --> 0:11:59.680
<v Speaker 3>Trees out of four point five million, out of.

0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:03.439
<v Speaker 2>Thirty six thousand of the street trees, of the street trees.

0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:05.640
<v Speaker 2>So we're down from thirty six thousand trees the.

0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:08.040
<v Speaker 3>Street trees living on the streets.

0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:10.720
<v Speaker 2>We got yea, yeah, these tupac trees, we had one

0:12:10.760 --> 0:12:12.440
<v Speaker 2>thousand and eighty of them got to go. That's what

0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:15.720
<v Speaker 2>the report says. Okay, now, because you know, anyways, as

0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:18.360
<v Speaker 2>this comes down to the problem, it was, as I

0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:21.560
<v Speaker 2>said originally up top, there was a misunderstanding about a term,

0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:25.560
<v Speaker 2>a phrase, one phrase. It was properly understood, this whole

0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:27.880
<v Speaker 2>war to come could have been avoided. So what was

0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:33.120
<v Speaker 2>this choice phrase? Mature trees aka trees of a certain age.

0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:36.360
<v Speaker 2>Now you see, Elizabeth. In the original report, the experts

0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:39.000
<v Speaker 2>they'd use the term mature trees and over mature trees.

0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:40.720
<v Speaker 2>You're a gardener, You got a green thumb. You know

0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:43.400
<v Speaker 2>what that means. It means they're of fruit bearing or

0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:49.000
<v Speaker 2>flowering age. They got child bearing. Now, seventy four percent

0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:53.280
<v Speaker 2>of the street trees were termed mature or over mature. Yeah, exactly. Now,

0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:56.720
<v Speaker 2>the city councilors of Sheffield. They misunderstood this. They read

0:12:56.720 --> 0:13:00.000
<v Speaker 2>this as aged or as like old biddies, and they

0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:03.400
<v Speaker 2>they wanted some some younger, sexier trees. So they're like,

0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:05.440
<v Speaker 2>how do we get some saplings on these streets?

0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:06.720
<v Speaker 3>Chris, So as.

0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:09.760
<v Speaker 2>These mature trees were the problem, the city council settled

0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:11.440
<v Speaker 2>on a plan. That's I told you. They called for

0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:14.079
<v Speaker 2>a large proportion of the mature trees to be cut

0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:18.160
<v Speaker 2>down replaced with younger trees for the city's sake. Nowpoort

0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:21.800
<v Speaker 2>called three percent. City council decided on seventy four percent.

0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:23.439
<v Speaker 3>Oh big difference.

0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:26.400
<v Speaker 2>Now, yeah, why, as I said, they wanted younger, sexier

0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:29.480
<v Speaker 2>trees because these trees of a certain age were just

0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:31.600
<v Speaker 2>not what they wanted on the streets of Sheffield. They

0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:33.520
<v Speaker 2>debate this for six years. In the end, none of

0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:36.480
<v Speaker 2>this matters because the reports experts all it gets ignored.

0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:38.880
<v Speaker 2>The Highway's team goes out there and decides to beautify

0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:41.880
<v Speaker 2>the streets. Buzz buzz, let's get the choppers going. Now

0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:45.720
<v Speaker 2>they'd ignored the most obvious math of trees, Elizabeth. People

0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:48.280
<v Speaker 2>don't care, oh what a tree is in years, they

0:13:48.360 --> 0:13:50.520
<v Speaker 2>just love trees and mature trees they love the most.

0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:53.160
<v Speaker 2>Everyone loves them, haven't they read the giving tree? But

0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:56.640
<v Speaker 2>a mature tree joined the behold it for animals humans alike.

0:13:56.679 --> 0:13:59.559
<v Speaker 2>We all love it. And this is England. If anybody's

0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:01.560
<v Speaker 2>gonna love some old stuff, you would think it would

0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:04.920
<v Speaker 2>be English people. I mean, am I wrong about this? Okay?

0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:08.360
<v Speaker 2>So like whatever. So the Sheffield City Council they ignore

0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:09.599
<v Speaker 2>all of that, and they just said they tell the

0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:12.680
<v Speaker 2>Highways team go out there, give us some younger, sexier trees,

0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:15.440
<v Speaker 2>and we need them now. So when the people of

0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:19.080
<v Speaker 2>the city find out about this plant, what did they do, Elizabeth?

0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:23.400
<v Speaker 2>They revolted. This was the start of the Great Tree

0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:26.440
<v Speaker 2>War of Sheffield. Yeah, okay, so I let's simmer down,

0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:28.240
<v Speaker 2>take all a break, and then we'll dive into this

0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:50.080
<v Speaker 2>great tree war. Excellent, all right, Elizabeth?

0:14:50.120 --> 0:14:51.560
<v Speaker 3>Where were we of trees?

0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:54.040
<v Speaker 2>That's right, the Great Tree War of Sheffield.

0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:54.800
<v Speaker 3>Yes, okay.

0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:58.280
<v Speaker 2>At this point it's twenty fourteen, word starts to spread

0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:01.400
<v Speaker 2>in Sheffield. Residents start talking about the whole scale slaughter

0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:02.800
<v Speaker 2>of their street trees.

0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:05.440
<v Speaker 3>Now I have a quick question, when they were going

0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:07.520
<v Speaker 3>to replace these with the saplings? Were they going to

0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:09.240
<v Speaker 3>replace it with the same kind of tree or were

0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:12.479
<v Speaker 3>they trying to find more street appropriate trees.

0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:15.640
<v Speaker 2>Not California, same trees, just younger ones. Wow, it's give

0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:16.680
<v Speaker 2>me sexy your younger trees.

0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:18.440
<v Speaker 3>Usually it's like when they have to take out the

0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:20.640
<v Speaker 3>ones in the street, it's because they planted ones that

0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:23.040
<v Speaker 3>have more shallow roots. That's up sidewalks to.

0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:28.280
<v Speaker 2>Climate. Yeah, nope, same trees, just younger. Okay, so slaughter

0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:31.680
<v Speaker 2>I use that term. It may sound dramatic, right, I

0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:33.440
<v Speaker 2>like dramatic, but I want you to be prepared for

0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:35.880
<v Speaker 2>one's about to come. So why did she feel go

0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:38.040
<v Speaker 2>to war or street trees? Now, I don't know about you,

0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:40.000
<v Speaker 2>but i'd expect people they told you in the UK

0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:42.880
<v Speaker 2>to love trees. Like they have laws that protect your

0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:46.160
<v Speaker 2>right to just wander wherever you go totally. You know

0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:47.640
<v Speaker 2>about this, the Rights of Way Act.

0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:50.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you can like cut across someone's field if that's

0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:52.800
<v Speaker 3>the only way to get from like one open space

0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:53.320
<v Speaker 3>to another.

0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:55.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the only place is you cannot do this or

0:15:55.360 --> 0:16:00.600
<v Speaker 2>some crop lands, construction sites, active construction sites, off courses

0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:04.520
<v Speaker 2>once again, active race tracks once again, active railways, and quarries.

0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:06.480
<v Speaker 2>So basically anywhere you might get hurt by things that

0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:08.400
<v Speaker 2>are moving. Other than that you can walk up you

0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:10.680
<v Speaker 2>have at it. So I thought that was wild. So

0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:13.240
<v Speaker 2>obviously I thought these people would love trees. City council

0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:17.520
<v Speaker 2>they did not think that. And they're from there, Elizabeth anyway. Yeah,

0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:20.320
<v Speaker 2>so mass tree slaughter that they get it started, right,

0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:23.040
<v Speaker 2>people start to fight back. So one early dynamic in

0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:25.080
<v Speaker 2>this fight is the city councilor as I said, they

0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:29.680
<v Speaker 2>assumed their opponents were, you know, Sheffield people that they

0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:32.400
<v Speaker 2>could manage. They thought they knew these people, and that's

0:16:32.480 --> 0:16:35.000
<v Speaker 2>one problem. They also thought they knew who they were,

0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:37.920
<v Speaker 2>so they assumed that their opponents were bored, wealthy white

0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:42.800
<v Speaker 2>people who were complaining about nothing, right, because apparently Sheffield

0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:45.200
<v Speaker 2>has a really stark economic divide from what I was reading,

0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:47.760
<v Speaker 2>the south west side it both some of the greatest

0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:50.920
<v Speaker 2>wealth in the UK, like some of the twenty percent

0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:53.280
<v Speaker 2>of the wealth is there, right, it's insane. Conversely, the

0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:56.800
<v Speaker 2>Northeast is an embarrassment to the Crown apparently, like some

0:16:56.840 --> 0:16:59.760
<v Speaker 2>of the most economically disadvantaged people in the whole aisle.

0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:02.280
<v Speaker 2>So from one end to the other, there's this bus

0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:04.720
<v Speaker 2>line that you can take and the life expectancy on

0:17:04.760 --> 0:17:09.160
<v Speaker 2>this bus line improvesed by ten years. Wow, just across town.

0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:11.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah exactly, Well that's not so different than right here

0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:12.200
<v Speaker 3>in Oakland.

0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:14.040
<v Speaker 2>Totally exactly. We would recognize these dynamics.

0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:15.920
<v Speaker 3>And we had a tree battle not too long ago

0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:19.399
<v Speaker 3>where at this school that you know, there was a

0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:21.480
<v Speaker 3>guy cutting down a tree who was obviously there from

0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:25.159
<v Speaker 3>like the you know, school district maintenance people, and the

0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:27.399
<v Speaker 3>neighbors were just freaking out like how dare you And

0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:29.760
<v Speaker 3>then they had to have an arborist come out and

0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:32.399
<v Speaker 3>break up the protest, who was like, the tree is

0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:36.120
<v Speaker 3>dead on the inside and it's going to fall on children.

0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:37.359
<v Speaker 2>It's a danger to the kids.

0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:38.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, listen to the arborous.

0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:42.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, now they'll get You'll see. There's a debate about

0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:45.880
<v Speaker 2>that because arborus also can be bought off anyway. Anybody's true,

0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:48.560
<v Speaker 2>everyone has a price. So basically, this Sheffield that we're

0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:51.960
<v Speaker 2>describing the southwest side is like the Beverly Hills of England,

0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:53.399
<v Speaker 2>if you will. It's like a land of old, rich

0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:55.600
<v Speaker 2>people who spend their time enjoying all the green spaces

0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:57.800
<v Speaker 2>they have, and they will fight for their equally old

0:17:57.800 --> 0:18:01.240
<v Speaker 2>ass trees. So but no one expected them to fight back.

0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:03.240
<v Speaker 2>I don't know why. The Highways team, they're convinced they

0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:04.920
<v Speaker 2>just need to go in there chop down a large

0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:07.600
<v Speaker 2>proportion of the mature tree. As a Sheffield The Experts

0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:10.000
<v Speaker 2>Commission reports suggest once again, as I said, only a

0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:12.840
<v Speaker 2>small percentage streets ahead decides to heck with it, we're

0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:16.840
<v Speaker 2>going forward. So trouble's brewing. Right off the bat. Seventeen

0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:19.720
<v Speaker 2>thousand trees would be removed and cut down. That was

0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:22.880
<v Speaker 2>a plan. Seventeen thousand of the thirty six thousand. Now,

0:18:22.920 --> 0:18:25.200
<v Speaker 2>if you do the math, that's forty eight point six percent.

0:18:25.240 --> 0:18:28.840
<v Speaker 2>Seventeen thousand, five hundred of thirty six thousand is forty

0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:31.159
<v Speaker 2>eight point six percent, almost half of the tree they

0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:33.400
<v Speaker 2>plan on cutting down. Original number seventy four percent gets

0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:36.040
<v Speaker 2>down to about fifty percent. They're like, oh that's reasonable, right, Yeah,

0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:39.119
<v Speaker 2>not reasonable enough. So this is also when dogma and

0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:42.919
<v Speaker 2>a bunker mentality entered the chat the Highways team. They

0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:45.800
<v Speaker 2>suggest that they need to fast track the tree removals

0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:47.720
<v Speaker 2>before anyone gets an idea and they can get a

0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:50.399
<v Speaker 2>resistance organized. So they plan to cut down five thousand,

0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:52.520
<v Speaker 2>five hundred trees right off the bat. Just get out

0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:54.920
<v Speaker 2>there and get the choppers go. And now the plan

0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:57.800
<v Speaker 2>there's a estimate they'll take five years overall. In the

0:18:57.800 --> 0:18:59.800
<v Speaker 2>city council, they're please just punge to hear them getting

0:18:59.840 --> 0:19:01.720
<v Speaker 2>right into it. So they're like, yeah, get going, guys,

0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:04.639
<v Speaker 2>and the highway teams and already the resistance is organizing,

0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:06.760
<v Speaker 2>though faster than anyone.

0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:09.520
<v Speaker 3>Expects, and there's a one to one replacement on these trees. Okay.

0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:12.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So in twenty fifteen, the people of Sheffield they

0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:14.639
<v Speaker 2>take to the long tradition of what we call direct action.

0:19:15.320 --> 0:19:17.800
<v Speaker 2>Much like a tree. It started with just a small seed,

0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:21.399
<v Speaker 2>but one loaded with potential. Elizabeth, because it started a

0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:25.520
<v Speaker 2>place called neither Edge or nether Edge, like nether Lands

0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:28.800
<v Speaker 2>or you're neither regions, you're nether Yeah, Like I had

0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:31.280
<v Speaker 2>to guess that's the town, like little village name. I

0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:34.040
<v Speaker 2>guess inside there's like villages inside of villages because like

0:19:34.119 --> 0:19:36.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, they're in South Yorkshire. And then inside of

0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:39.600
<v Speaker 2>Sheffield is this place called nether Edge I assume is

0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:41.680
<v Speaker 2>a neighborhood. Yeah, but it may have been a village

0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:44.399
<v Speaker 2>that just got consumed. I don't know. Yeah, Anyway, I

0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:46.920
<v Speaker 2>love these British like town and village names. I was

0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:49.200
<v Speaker 2>looking around that you've lived there. Do you have any

0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:52.360
<v Speaker 2>favorites from your time abroad? Like, for example, the ones

0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:55.080
<v Speaker 2>I liked there was Devil's Lap Full in Northumberland.

0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:58.119
<v Speaker 3>Oh, Devil's Lap a town name, Yeah, I like. I

0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:03.800
<v Speaker 3>like the Gorbels and Glass the Goblet. Neighborhood name you always.

0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:06.359
<v Speaker 2>Hear about, like Stratford upon Avon, where Shakespeare's from. But

0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:08.320
<v Speaker 2>then I found fudge Pack upon Humber.

0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:11.760
<v Speaker 3>Stop it fudge pack.

0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:16.280
<v Speaker 2>Fudge pack upon like fudge pack all one word upon Humber.

0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:20.520
<v Speaker 2>There's also Hornet. Does that name like Horny Old Road

0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:24.200
<v Speaker 2>in Malvern Wells? Or the Blind Fiddler and Cornwall these

0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:28.439
<v Speaker 2>are town names apparently. My last one is flesh Shank, Northumberland.

0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:30.600
<v Speaker 2>I'm from flesh Shank.

0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:34.439
<v Speaker 3>I still go wow, I'm still processing.

0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:37.199
<v Speaker 2>So let them all around in your anyway. Back to

0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:40.320
<v Speaker 2>the Great Tree War of Sheffield. A dozen locals they

0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:43.120
<v Speaker 2>band together up and they start trying to save the trees.

0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:45.800
<v Speaker 2>They the people unite. Elizabeth and these people they know

0:20:45.880 --> 0:20:47.679
<v Speaker 2>these trees. I mean, I mean, I don't mean personally,

0:20:47.760 --> 0:20:51.200
<v Speaker 2>but they for some it's it's possessive, it's personal. They

0:20:51.240 --> 0:20:55.520
<v Speaker 2>were there for these trees. They're tree defenders. Now this

0:20:55.600 --> 0:20:59.000
<v Speaker 2>group of doesn't. They're elders, mind you, elders with money

0:20:59.160 --> 0:21:02.280
<v Speaker 2>and time. They go out and confront the tree surgeon

0:21:05.080 --> 0:21:07.159
<v Speaker 2>hire to remove the trees of a certain age. Now

0:21:07.200 --> 0:21:09.879
<v Speaker 2>when their demands that the chainsaws fall silent or ignore,

0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:12.359
<v Speaker 2>the elders took it to the next level. We got time,

0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:16.560
<v Speaker 2>we got money. So they put first their bodies in harms. Way. Yeah,

0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:18.479
<v Speaker 2>they went down and they stood under the tree so

0:21:18.520 --> 0:21:20.520
<v Speaker 2>that no work could be done. They'd be like, oh,

0:21:20.600 --> 0:21:23.360
<v Speaker 2>you'll hit us with falling wood. Right, So I thought

0:21:23.400 --> 0:21:25.840
<v Speaker 2>that you would like this because like Mario Savia immediately

0:21:25.840 --> 0:21:28.320
<v Speaker 2>thought of him, like and him on the steps of

0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:31.119
<v Speaker 2>Sprow hall Uc Berkeley there at sixty four, leading like

0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:33.400
<v Speaker 2>a sit in protest. Yeah, you know the speech, can

0:21:33.440 --> 0:21:33.720
<v Speaker 2>I do it?

0:21:33.840 --> 0:21:34.040
<v Speaker 3>Yes?

0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:37.320
<v Speaker 2>Please? All right? And that brings me to the second

0:21:37.440 --> 0:21:41.280
<v Speaker 2>mode of civil disobedience. There is a time when the

0:21:41.320 --> 0:21:44.720
<v Speaker 2>operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so

0:21:44.920 --> 0:21:47.560
<v Speaker 2>sick at heart that you can't take part, You can't

0:21:47.600 --> 0:21:50.080
<v Speaker 2>even passively take part. And you've got to put your

0:21:50.119 --> 0:21:54.040
<v Speaker 2>bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers,

0:21:54.119 --> 0:21:57.600
<v Speaker 2>upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop,

0:21:57.720 --> 0:21:59.920
<v Speaker 2>and you've got to indicate to the people who run it,

0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:03.600
<v Speaker 2>to people who own it, that unless you're free, the

0:22:03.640 --> 0:22:06.480
<v Speaker 2>machine will be prevented from working at all.

0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:08.800
<v Speaker 3>Love beautiful, right.

0:22:09.119 --> 0:22:12.320
<v Speaker 2>So these old bricks start pulling full Mario Savia on

0:22:12.400 --> 0:22:15.119
<v Speaker 2>these tree surgeons, and they're laying their bodies down on

0:22:15.160 --> 0:22:18.920
<v Speaker 2>their bron I didn't see any footage of them channing themselves,

0:22:18.920 --> 0:22:20.760
<v Speaker 2>but they did everything they could. I mean, I'm sure

0:22:20.800 --> 0:22:22.960
<v Speaker 2>they did do like that cuffing action you know where.

0:22:22.800 --> 0:22:26.000
<v Speaker 3>You put the right They sat under there while they

0:22:26.000 --> 0:22:28.280
<v Speaker 3>were cutting and they said, hell, help somebody.

0:22:28.080 --> 0:22:31.399
<v Speaker 2>Oh I'm down here. Please No. So this human spirit

0:22:31.440 --> 0:22:34.080
<v Speaker 2>of defiance he gets expressed a direct action, right, these

0:22:34.160 --> 0:22:37.720
<v Speaker 2>rich elders of south west Sheffield called upon to save

0:22:37.760 --> 0:22:41.400
<v Speaker 2>the mature trees, putting their bodies upon the gears, the wheels, right,

0:22:41.760 --> 0:22:43.720
<v Speaker 2>the tree surgeons who are just there, they're just there

0:22:43.720 --> 0:22:45.359
<v Speaker 2>to do their jobs. They're like, well, this is not

0:22:45.400 --> 0:22:47.439
<v Speaker 2>what I signed up for, right, Like God, no, you

0:22:47.480 --> 0:22:50.280
<v Speaker 2>feel right now, all right? But they were so real, Elizabeth,

0:22:50.320 --> 0:22:52.280
<v Speaker 2>They were so real and they were so ready to fight.

0:22:52.400 --> 0:22:54.399
<v Speaker 2>So but not on just the like we're gonna put

0:22:54.440 --> 0:22:56.480
<v Speaker 2>down our bodies. They also put their money on the line.

0:22:56.520 --> 0:22:59.280
<v Speaker 2>They went out and commissioned to their own report. Oh yes,

0:22:59.359 --> 0:23:02.080
<v Speaker 2>the local tree defender campaigns. They hire this team of experts.

0:23:02.119 --> 0:23:04.919
<v Speaker 2>They drop an independent report to convince the city council

0:23:05.040 --> 0:23:07.520
<v Speaker 2>in their own language of paperwork and reports. Right, they

0:23:07.560 --> 0:23:09.600
<v Speaker 2>know how this stuff works. They're rich, so they're like, like,

0:23:09.640 --> 0:23:13.119
<v Speaker 2>look the independent report. It points out the storm drainage

0:23:13.160 --> 0:23:16.879
<v Speaker 2>benefits of trees and air quality improvements and the and

0:23:17.000 --> 0:23:19.600
<v Speaker 2>these are like hard to measure intangibles, but they tried

0:23:19.600 --> 0:23:23.240
<v Speaker 2>to convey them as economic value of the trees. Right,

0:23:23.320 --> 0:23:26.239
<v Speaker 2>These rich folks they speak in city councils, they're like, oh,

0:23:26.320 --> 0:23:28.359
<v Speaker 2>yes they have rather than like you know, a tax

0:23:28.400 --> 0:23:30.520
<v Speaker 2>to be cut or better yet like some you know,

0:23:30.880 --> 0:23:32.919
<v Speaker 2>tax free way to improve the society. They look with

0:23:32.960 --> 0:23:36.240
<v Speaker 2>these trees are an economic boon, right, city of council.

0:23:36.320 --> 0:23:39.720
<v Speaker 2>They listen and then they're like, no, they just blow

0:23:39.760 --> 0:23:42.720
<v Speaker 2>them off, right, So back to action, you don't wally

0:23:42.760 --> 0:23:45.639
<v Speaker 2>computer says no. So the city council wouldn't listen to

0:23:45.640 --> 0:23:49.040
<v Speaker 2>paperwork reports, and they did listen to protests and fiery

0:23:49.040 --> 0:23:51.639
<v Speaker 2>shouting voices that came next in public places, and it

0:23:51.680 --> 0:23:54.440
<v Speaker 2>all started amiably, right. They're old Brits, as I said, right,

0:23:54.480 --> 0:23:57.159
<v Speaker 2>Originally they were quite friendly with the tree surgeons that

0:23:57.200 --> 0:23:58.800
<v Speaker 2>they would find. They would of course lay down on

0:23:58.800 --> 0:24:00.399
<v Speaker 2>the ground, but they would also like out there and

0:24:00.440 --> 0:24:02.760
<v Speaker 2>offer them a spot of tea. You know. It was

0:24:02.800 --> 0:24:05.960
<v Speaker 2>all very cordial, open and communicative. And then they only

0:24:06.040 --> 0:24:10.360
<v Speaker 2>take on the democratic engagement path, right because they started

0:24:10.400 --> 0:24:13.399
<v Speaker 2>they tried to do things according to the mechanisms of

0:24:13.480 --> 0:24:16.359
<v Speaker 2>their culture. They tried to use the channels of communication

0:24:16.400 --> 0:24:18.679
<v Speaker 2>they should. They wrote letters to the City Council, they

0:24:18.800 --> 0:24:22.359
<v Speaker 2>filed freedom of information X. But the City Council was

0:24:22.400 --> 0:24:24.600
<v Speaker 2>bogged down by so many letters and so many freedom

0:24:24.600 --> 0:24:26.560
<v Speaker 2>of information X. And also they had the whole problem

0:24:26.560 --> 0:24:28.840
<v Speaker 2>with the years of austerity. They no longer had the

0:24:28.920 --> 0:24:31.240
<v Speaker 2>staff to deal with all these requests. So it becomes

0:24:31.240 --> 0:24:33.439
<v Speaker 2>a paperwork war and they get ground down. Right. So

0:24:33.560 --> 0:24:38.960
<v Speaker 2>now next action teams formed action teams Elizabeth men and women.

0:24:39.160 --> 0:24:42.200
<v Speaker 2>They put words to down, they put their pens down,

0:24:42.240 --> 0:24:45.280
<v Speaker 2>and they picked up their arms and defended the trees.

0:24:45.680 --> 0:24:49.880
<v Speaker 2>Entered Dave Dilner, he formed the Sheffield Tree Action Group

0:24:49.960 --> 0:24:53.520
<v Speaker 2>aka stag Kil there he's one of those old British

0:24:53.520 --> 0:24:55.920
<v Speaker 2>cats who fought in the war, pick whatever war you want.

0:24:56.200 --> 0:24:59.600
<v Speaker 2>Being a military man, he still treated yeah, exactly, treated

0:24:59.640 --> 0:25:02.119
<v Speaker 2>everything like part of the war effort. Right. So Dave Dilaner,

0:25:02.320 --> 0:25:04.280
<v Speaker 2>he lives in that well to do southwest, but he

0:25:04.359 --> 0:25:07.520
<v Speaker 2>lives near the heavy equipment depot that the arborous and

0:25:07.560 --> 0:25:10.080
<v Speaker 2>tree surgeons are launching out of each morning. So he

0:25:10.160 --> 0:25:12.320
<v Speaker 2>goes down there every morning and he wakes up and

0:25:12.359 --> 0:25:14.880
<v Speaker 2>he steps on a step ladder and with his binoculars,

0:25:14.880 --> 0:25:17.200
<v Speaker 2>his field goggles, he peers in and he watches the

0:25:17.240 --> 0:25:20.680
<v Speaker 2>tree surgeons leaving. Then he gets on his action group chat,

0:25:20.760 --> 0:25:23.199
<v Speaker 2>his WhatsApp group chat, and he starts giving out from

0:25:23.240 --> 0:25:27.159
<v Speaker 2>his surveillance outpost updates. Right, Yes, Chip and barrio wagon

0:25:27.200 --> 0:25:30.000
<v Speaker 2>heading leaving depot now heading southwest. Right, and somebody else

0:25:30.000 --> 0:25:32.000
<v Speaker 2>will get on the later. We're on a Dave, And

0:25:32.000 --> 0:25:33.840
<v Speaker 2>then they would all go and they would they report

0:25:33.880 --> 0:25:36.520
<v Speaker 2>where they had sightings until they could triangulate where the

0:25:36.520 --> 0:25:38.760
<v Speaker 2>tree surgeons would stop to work. Then they would all

0:25:38.800 --> 0:25:41.480
<v Speaker 2>descend there. So he would start the like sightings and

0:25:41.520 --> 0:25:43.040
<v Speaker 2>the rest would say, oh, yeah, here it is.

0:25:43.080 --> 0:25:46.040
<v Speaker 3>If he's just like watching him leave the depot, why

0:25:46.080 --> 0:25:48.080
<v Speaker 3>doesn't he hop in a car and drive behind them.

0:25:48.119 --> 0:25:50.359
<v Speaker 2>He's watching all of them. There's a kings going out,

0:25:50.840 --> 0:25:53.000
<v Speaker 2>this one's going that way, this this way, this one's

0:25:53.000 --> 0:25:54.879
<v Speaker 2>you know, they got two. They've got a wood chipper

0:25:54.920 --> 0:25:56.560
<v Speaker 2>and a you know, cherry picker truck.

0:25:56.359 --> 0:25:58.719
<v Speaker 3>Or whatever it's. You know, I have flawed that. But

0:25:58.760 --> 0:26:00.760
<v Speaker 3>it's also like he took the easy job.

0:26:01.680 --> 0:26:03.760
<v Speaker 2>You gotta have a spotter instead. Tell me he's like

0:26:03.800 --> 0:26:06.000
<v Speaker 2>basically a field officer. What are you gonna do? All right,

0:26:06.080 --> 0:26:09.160
<v Speaker 2>So the action group, as they said, they leap into action.

0:26:09.240 --> 0:26:11.800
<v Speaker 2>They start confronting tree surgeons standing under the trees are

0:26:11.800 --> 0:26:13.480
<v Speaker 2>supposed to be cut down. The arborous would then have

0:26:13.560 --> 0:26:15.080
<v Speaker 2>to pack up for the day, and those are the

0:26:15.160 --> 0:26:17.600
<v Speaker 2>days called, or they'd have to demand that police show

0:26:17.680 --> 0:26:20.280
<v Speaker 2>up and remove the protesters. It becomes like a whole deal, right,

0:26:20.320 --> 0:26:23.240
<v Speaker 2>So this war had not yet become violent. This was

0:26:23.280 --> 0:26:25.240
<v Speaker 2>still early in the autumn of twenty sixteen, but the

0:26:25.280 --> 0:26:27.480
<v Speaker 2>signs of violence to come they were already there, Elizabeth.

0:26:27.520 --> 0:26:29.080
<v Speaker 2>They were in there. If you knew what to look for.

0:26:29.359 --> 0:26:32.200
<v Speaker 2>The tree surgeon certainly felt it, of course they did.

0:26:32.200 --> 0:26:34.240
<v Speaker 2>They were there on the front lines. They didn't want

0:26:34.280 --> 0:26:35.880
<v Speaker 2>to be, but they were there on the front line.

0:26:35.920 --> 0:26:38.159
<v Speaker 2>So this company, I should tell them, they're called amy

0:26:38.240 --> 0:26:41.240
<v Speaker 2>ame E y Okay. They'd been contracted by the streets

0:26:41.240 --> 0:26:45.200
<v Speaker 2>Ahead program. The streets Ahead they worked for the Highways

0:26:45.200 --> 0:26:47.399
<v Speaker 2>team in the City Council, right, So they asked their

0:26:47.440 --> 0:26:50.119
<v Speaker 2>bosses if they consider some repairs that would minimize the

0:26:50.200 --> 0:26:53.400
<v Speaker 2>number of trees that they needed to remove. The tree

0:26:53.480 --> 0:26:55.199
<v Speaker 2>surgeons were saying, Hey, here's the thought. What if we

0:26:55.280 --> 0:26:57.560
<v Speaker 2>don't do what we do for a living and instead

0:26:57.600 --> 0:26:59.080
<v Speaker 2>you paid us to I don't know, do what the

0:26:59.080 --> 0:27:02.080
<v Speaker 2>people want that would fix things right, And so the

0:27:02.080 --> 0:27:04.399
<v Speaker 2>tree surgeons they're asking not to do their own jobs.

0:27:04.440 --> 0:27:06.720
<v Speaker 2>And the fat of course doesn't fly with the city council.

0:27:06.720 --> 0:27:08.240
<v Speaker 2>They're like, we paid you to cut down trees, cut

0:27:08.240 --> 0:27:11.119
<v Speaker 2>down trees. Streets Ahead and the Highways team they felt

0:27:11.119 --> 0:27:13.960
<v Speaker 2>that the protesters were out of touch and not representative

0:27:13.960 --> 0:27:17.360
<v Speaker 2>of quote, the real residents of Sheffield. So they were

0:27:17.400 --> 0:27:20.640
<v Speaker 2>just a small, loud minority and they should ignore them

0:27:20.680 --> 0:27:22.959
<v Speaker 2>and they should get back to cutting down trees.

0:27:23.080 --> 0:27:23.240
<v Speaker 3>Yes.

0:27:23.440 --> 0:27:25.680
<v Speaker 2>So there's one senior official from the Highways team. He

0:27:25.680 --> 0:27:27.720
<v Speaker 2>will come out in the story numerous times. His name

0:27:27.760 --> 0:27:30.160
<v Speaker 2>is Paul Billington. Here was a real piece of work,

0:27:30.200 --> 0:27:33.560
<v Speaker 2>this Billington. He spearheaded what would become the bunker mentality

0:27:33.640 --> 0:27:35.479
<v Speaker 2>that would take hold. He had that whole classic us

0:27:35.520 --> 0:27:37.880
<v Speaker 2>against them. So wait, what was his name? Do you say?

0:27:37.880 --> 0:27:42.120
<v Speaker 2>Buzz Killington? Buzz Killington? Producer Dave Great to call Buzz Killington,

0:27:42.119 --> 0:27:44.960
<v Speaker 2>my man, Buzz Killington. He decides we need to have

0:27:45.000 --> 0:27:48.399
<v Speaker 2>an early morning raid, something to break the morale the

0:27:48.440 --> 0:27:51.919
<v Speaker 2>Tree Defenders also apparently Buzz Killington's. He wanted them to

0:27:51.920 --> 0:27:53.679
<v Speaker 2>have the police assist them, to really let them know

0:27:53.680 --> 0:27:55.800
<v Speaker 2>they had the state beyond their side. So an in

0:27:55.880 --> 0:27:58.840
<v Speaker 2>house lawyer for the Streets Ahead project he gets word

0:27:59.200 --> 0:28:02.480
<v Speaker 2>of this proposed so this raid that's designed to break

0:28:02.480 --> 0:28:04.280
<v Speaker 2>the hearts and the will of the Tree Defenders, and

0:28:04.320 --> 0:28:07.480
<v Speaker 2>he's like, well, what's my advice? Well, personally, I don't

0:28:07.480 --> 0:28:09.720
<v Speaker 2>believe what is being proposed could in any way be

0:28:09.800 --> 0:28:12.400
<v Speaker 2>considered reasonable. Right, So that was him, but it wasn't

0:28:12.400 --> 0:28:15.240
<v Speaker 2>just him. A communications director also in house had a

0:28:15.280 --> 0:28:17.760
<v Speaker 2>similar reaction when he heard about this planned morning raid

0:28:17.800 --> 0:28:20.720
<v Speaker 2>to break the hearts and minds. He said, my professional

0:28:20.800 --> 0:28:21.960
<v Speaker 2>view is that this is crackers.

0:28:22.600 --> 0:28:25.080
<v Speaker 3>Oh he's a technical term, but rather.

0:28:24.960 --> 0:28:26.560
<v Speaker 2>Than just tell you about all this, Lilizids, I'd like

0:28:26.600 --> 0:28:29.800
<v Speaker 2>you to close your eyes as a picture. It's four

0:28:29.880 --> 0:28:33.320
<v Speaker 2>thirty am on November seventeenth, twenty sixteen. You are standing

0:28:33.320 --> 0:28:37.280
<v Speaker 2>outside of a supermarket near Rustling's Road. You are a housecat,

0:28:37.600 --> 0:28:40.520
<v Speaker 2>a British tabbyer. You're one who's escaped the boredom of

0:28:40.520 --> 0:28:43.240
<v Speaker 2>domestic life for some of the danger of Sheffield streets

0:28:43.240 --> 0:28:45.360
<v Speaker 2>in the small hours of the morning. But you found

0:28:45.360 --> 0:28:48.320
<v Speaker 2>no mice, no early birds, no small mammals to hunt,

0:28:48.360 --> 0:28:50.800
<v Speaker 2>so you've wandered over to the supermarket. You're currently in

0:28:50.800 --> 0:28:53.600
<v Speaker 2>an alley that runs beyond the store, checking the milk bottles,

0:28:53.600 --> 0:28:56.280
<v Speaker 2>hoping to find some milk that's just passed its expiry date.

0:28:56.560 --> 0:28:59.240
<v Speaker 2>You tip over one bottle, no milk spills out. That's

0:28:59.280 --> 0:29:02.080
<v Speaker 2>when you hear it sound of heavy equipment. You cat

0:29:02.120 --> 0:29:04.040
<v Speaker 2>prants over to see what all the noise is about.

0:29:04.200 --> 0:29:06.600
<v Speaker 2>You climb up a chain lake fence and hop onto

0:29:06.600 --> 0:29:09.920
<v Speaker 2>the stone rooftop of the store. As you draw near

0:29:10.160 --> 0:29:12.200
<v Speaker 2>to the edge, you spy a cordon of cups. They're

0:29:12.200 --> 0:29:15.720
<v Speaker 2>shutting down both ends of a quiet, leafy, well treed street.

0:29:15.840 --> 0:29:18.240
<v Speaker 2>The cops are setting up a safety zone for tree

0:29:18.280 --> 0:29:22.120
<v Speaker 2>surgeons from amy. This is a well coordinated early morning ray.

0:29:22.160 --> 0:29:25.520
<v Speaker 2>The target eight mature trees. You walk along the length

0:29:25.520 --> 0:29:27.840
<v Speaker 2>of the roof to get a better view. From the corner,

0:29:27.920 --> 0:29:30.480
<v Speaker 2>you can see the police pounding on front doors. When

0:29:30.520 --> 0:29:33.080
<v Speaker 2>the doors swing open, the bobbies and form the residence.

0:29:33.400 --> 0:29:36.280
<v Speaker 2>They must move their cars. It's five am now at

0:29:36.280 --> 0:29:38.160
<v Speaker 2>this point. At the same time, there's a chorus of

0:29:38.240 --> 0:29:41.040
<v Speaker 2>chainsaws starting to sing delight. You hate all the noise

0:29:41.080 --> 0:29:43.600
<v Speaker 2>that the soap there is. The tree surgeons are going

0:29:43.640 --> 0:29:46.200
<v Speaker 2>at it with a martial energy. They strike early, they

0:29:46.240 --> 0:29:49.200
<v Speaker 2>strike hard. They come in with cherry picker trucks, heavy sauce.

0:29:49.360 --> 0:29:52.479
<v Speaker 2>The terrible buzzing and tearing of tree flesh. It friends

0:29:52.520 --> 0:29:55.120
<v Speaker 2>the quiet of the early morning. If you residents are

0:29:55.120 --> 0:29:57.880
<v Speaker 2>bumbling around on the sidewalk beneath you, here and there,

0:29:57.880 --> 0:30:00.280
<v Speaker 2>a cars starts to life and then drives off as

0:30:00.280 --> 0:30:02.680
<v Speaker 2>the police have struck them where to go. You scratch

0:30:02.720 --> 0:30:05.480
<v Speaker 2>at the gravel of the rooftop bricks, Your tail flicks

0:30:05.480 --> 0:30:07.960
<v Speaker 2>at the receiving darkness. This morning is taking hold. You

0:30:08.040 --> 0:30:11.120
<v Speaker 2>hear a new commotion. A young man and his two comrades,

0:30:11.160 --> 0:30:14.160
<v Speaker 2>two women in their seventies charge the police guard in

0:30:14.240 --> 0:30:17.040
<v Speaker 2>safety zone. The bobbies push back against them as the

0:30:17.080 --> 0:30:20.280
<v Speaker 2>tree defenders try to position themselves beneath the tree surgeons.

0:30:20.480 --> 0:30:23.000
<v Speaker 2>You jump across a high space above the action and

0:30:23.080 --> 0:30:25.280
<v Speaker 2>land on a tree limb above the tree slated for

0:30:25.520 --> 0:30:28.160
<v Speaker 2>the chop. You prance along the rough barked limb and

0:30:28.200 --> 0:30:30.800
<v Speaker 2>walk up to the tree surgeon, armed with his heavy

0:30:30.840 --> 0:30:34.320
<v Speaker 2>industrial chainsaw. Standing in the cherry picker box twenty feet

0:30:34.360 --> 0:30:36.760
<v Speaker 2>above the fray. You stare into the eyes of the

0:30:36.760 --> 0:30:40.200
<v Speaker 2>tree surgeon. He stares back at you. You are disgusting

0:30:40.280 --> 0:30:42.440
<v Speaker 2>with what he's doing, but for your own reasons, that's

0:30:42.440 --> 0:30:44.720
<v Speaker 2>a kay. He looks back at you. The gilt crows

0:30:44.760 --> 0:30:47.040
<v Speaker 2>in his eyes. Beneath you, the chopped up chunks of

0:30:47.200 --> 0:30:51.560
<v Speaker 2>seven mature trees. The tree leaves rustle from a small breeze.

0:30:51.600 --> 0:30:53.600
<v Speaker 2>Beneath you can hear the shouting of the tree defenders

0:30:53.600 --> 0:30:56.080
<v Speaker 2>and the cops fighting back. They're going at it somehow,

0:30:56.200 --> 0:30:59.040
<v Speaker 2>the noise all the way slightly as you lock eyes

0:30:59.080 --> 0:31:01.600
<v Speaker 2>with the tree surgeon. Then you see it. The single

0:31:01.680 --> 0:31:05.160
<v Speaker 2>tear runs down his cheek. Handcuffs get slapped onto the

0:31:05.200 --> 0:31:07.320
<v Speaker 2>tree defender's wrist. Cops toss them in the back of

0:31:07.320 --> 0:31:09.200
<v Speaker 2>a police lordy and off they go to be booked

0:31:09.440 --> 0:31:12.040
<v Speaker 2>at the closest jail. You run down the trunk of

0:31:12.040 --> 0:31:14.240
<v Speaker 2>the tree and set up to find some breakfast or

0:31:14.280 --> 0:31:17.080
<v Speaker 2>maybe some danger. You cat prance through the carnage, the

0:31:17.120 --> 0:31:21.240
<v Speaker 2>police tape and the fallen bodies of the trees. Elizabeth,

0:31:21.400 --> 0:31:23.520
<v Speaker 2>can you imagine that early morning scene?

0:31:23.600 --> 0:31:25.840
<v Speaker 3>Oh my heartbreaking, terrible.

0:31:26.040 --> 0:31:30.160
<v Speaker 2>But this morning raid it failed spectacularly because it led

0:31:30.200 --> 0:31:33.000
<v Speaker 2>to a rush of news media images. Imagine old people

0:31:33.040 --> 0:31:35.479
<v Speaker 2>lying down on the ground. Oh yeah, to protect these trees,

0:31:35.520 --> 0:31:37.480
<v Speaker 2>next to the brutality of the saw tooth and the

0:31:37.480 --> 0:31:39.920
<v Speaker 2>cold metal of the blade. Right, big savage chunks of

0:31:39.960 --> 0:31:43.400
<v Speaker 2>tree sawdust piled like puled blood. It looked bad in

0:31:43.440 --> 0:31:45.480
<v Speaker 2>the morning papers. But if you can believe it, this

0:31:45.520 --> 0:31:48.040
<v Speaker 2>has been the idea all along. This is what they wanted.

0:31:48.240 --> 0:31:51.080
<v Speaker 3>Well, if you have to do something in that sneaky way,

0:31:51.120 --> 0:31:52.640
<v Speaker 3>if I'm going to do it at five in the morning,

0:31:52.680 --> 0:31:56.800
<v Speaker 3>then before everyone's awake, you know you're doing something wrong totally. Plus,

0:31:56.880 --> 0:32:02.880
<v Speaker 3>I would imagine that five am is inside of quiet. Yeah,

0:32:02.920 --> 0:32:05.480
<v Speaker 3>you can't start sawing at five in the morning.

0:32:05.560 --> 0:32:07.600
<v Speaker 2>Here, it's eight am. We couldn't turn on power tools.

0:32:07.400 --> 0:32:08.680
<v Speaker 3>Before a right exactly.

0:32:08.800 --> 0:32:10.920
<v Speaker 2>So, yeah, they ignored all of that, and they said,

0:32:10.960 --> 0:32:13.640
<v Speaker 2>we have a bigger impulse to answer to now, if

0:32:13.640 --> 0:32:14.960
<v Speaker 2>you can believe it. As I said, this had been

0:32:15.000 --> 0:32:17.480
<v Speaker 2>their idea. They wanted these graphic images, but the message

0:32:17.480 --> 0:32:19.840
<v Speaker 2>they sent was too strong. It was too graphic. Right.

0:32:20.280 --> 0:32:22.840
<v Speaker 2>A memo would surface later on which confirmed the city

0:32:22.880 --> 0:32:25.360
<v Speaker 2>Council and the Highways Team's cynical view on how to

0:32:25.440 --> 0:32:28.120
<v Speaker 2>best respond to their protesters and I quote removing the

0:32:28.120 --> 0:32:30.880
<v Speaker 2>trees on Rustling's Road remove a symbol of the tree

0:32:30.920 --> 0:32:33.880
<v Speaker 2>campaign instead their morning rate. It became a symbol for

0:32:34.080 --> 0:32:36.520
<v Speaker 2>the tree exactly. Raid was as I said, it was

0:32:36.520 --> 0:32:38.120
<v Speaker 2>never about the health of the trees or even about

0:32:38.120 --> 0:32:40.400
<v Speaker 2>the solving the ostensible problem. Remember this all started with

0:32:40.440 --> 0:32:43.760
<v Speaker 2>fixing the unsafe streets right right now. The police assisted

0:32:43.840 --> 0:32:47.200
<v Speaker 2>raid purely an emotional message composed in the symbolic language

0:32:47.200 --> 0:32:49.920
<v Speaker 2>of a fell tree, chopped up section left, lying in

0:32:49.960 --> 0:32:53.000
<v Speaker 2>the streets ready for the wood shopper, right, an old

0:32:53.080 --> 0:32:56.280
<v Speaker 2>lady on the ground next to it in an agony face. Right.

0:32:56.520 --> 0:32:58.400
<v Speaker 2>This image was meant to break the spirits of the

0:32:58.400 --> 0:33:02.400
<v Speaker 2>tree defenders. Instead galvanizes people country the UK is like,

0:33:02.400 --> 0:33:05.880
<v Speaker 2>what is going on in Sheffield? Right, So they'd moved

0:33:05.920 --> 0:33:08.720
<v Speaker 2>beyond the borders of southwest Sheffield. Now suddenly it was

0:33:08.760 --> 0:33:11.200
<v Speaker 2>no longer rich people trying to save their quiet, leafy

0:33:11.240 --> 0:33:13.920
<v Speaker 2>shaded streets. Now it was the people fighting for the

0:33:13.960 --> 0:33:19.160
<v Speaker 2>green future of Britain. Yeah, yeah, Elizabeth entered the Flying Squad.

0:33:19.840 --> 0:33:21.800
<v Speaker 2>So we'll take a little break because I just wanted

0:33:21.840 --> 0:33:25.480
<v Speaker 2>to tease you with your flying and it's not the

0:33:25.520 --> 0:33:48.200
<v Speaker 2>one you think it is, all right, Elizabeth.

0:33:47.800 --> 0:33:53.080
<v Speaker 3>Oka before we went to b Yes, flying squad, Yes.

0:33:53.160 --> 0:33:56.200
<v Speaker 2>Your guys, your girls, the squad, But it's not that

0:33:56.240 --> 0:33:59.240
<v Speaker 2>Flying Squad. This was a group of protesters who called

0:33:59.280 --> 0:34:02.440
<v Speaker 2>their new action group the Flying Squad. They took it

0:34:02.520 --> 0:34:05.120
<v Speaker 2>back from the police. Why because they knew a good name.

0:34:05.120 --> 0:34:07.000
<v Speaker 2>When they heard it. They're like, you guys aren't using

0:34:07.040 --> 0:34:08.920
<v Speaker 2>it right, We'll take that. So the Flying Squad was

0:34:08.960 --> 0:34:11.359
<v Speaker 2>about thirty people deep and they were ready to fly

0:34:11.520 --> 0:34:15.480
<v Speaker 2>to danger, thus the name. They were spotters, fast responders.

0:34:15.560 --> 0:34:17.719
<v Speaker 2>They chased tree surgeons to the job sites and then

0:34:17.719 --> 0:34:19.840
<v Speaker 2>they stood beneath the trees like everybody else to stop

0:34:19.840 --> 0:34:22.400
<v Speaker 2>the work. But they were unafraid to confront tree surgeons

0:34:22.480 --> 0:34:25.680
<v Speaker 2>or the police. Soon enough, these tree surgeons from Amy, right,

0:34:25.680 --> 0:34:27.759
<v Speaker 2>they feel they have to protect themselves from all these

0:34:28.000 --> 0:34:31.920
<v Speaker 2>bad as. They called them chipper chasers. So some of

0:34:31.960 --> 0:34:34.319
<v Speaker 2>these these tree surgeons would compare it the streets were

0:34:34.320 --> 0:34:36.719
<v Speaker 2>turning into the wild West. They did not feel safe

0:34:36.719 --> 0:34:39.759
<v Speaker 2>in these streets. They're just now they've got these newly

0:34:39.840 --> 0:34:42.120
<v Speaker 2>drafted soldiers in the fight because it's gone nationals. So

0:34:42.160 --> 0:34:44.400
<v Speaker 2>now people are flooding in from other cities and towns,

0:34:44.719 --> 0:34:47.440
<v Speaker 2>and the fight becomes this group, this fighting force I

0:34:47.520 --> 0:34:50.160
<v Speaker 2>few will become so effective that in June twenty seventeen,

0:34:50.200 --> 0:34:52.640
<v Speaker 2>in just one month, the tree shoppers, they were scheduled

0:34:52.680 --> 0:34:55.160
<v Speaker 2>to cut down four hundred and seventy two trees. You

0:34:55.160 --> 0:34:57.520
<v Speaker 2>know how many times they had to stop? Three hundred

0:34:57.520 --> 0:35:01.359
<v Speaker 2>and twenty nine times. Flying Squad was on it. One

0:35:01.360 --> 0:35:04.000
<v Speaker 2>tree surgeon from Amy, he said, of the protesters, it's

0:35:04.000 --> 0:35:06.160
<v Speaker 2>incredibly frustrating. I wanted to do the job I was

0:35:06.160 --> 0:35:07.560
<v Speaker 2>paid to do, not to be the face of a

0:35:07.600 --> 0:35:10.360
<v Speaker 2>controversial policy. I had the colleagues who didn't agree with

0:35:10.400 --> 0:35:12.640
<v Speaker 2>what the council was doing, who were almost believed if

0:35:12.640 --> 0:35:15.239
<v Speaker 2>the protesters turned up for me. I just felt caught

0:35:15.239 --> 0:35:16.960
<v Speaker 2>in the middle and started to dread getting up in

0:35:17.000 --> 0:35:19.960
<v Speaker 2>the morning. I was eventually signed off for stress. He

0:35:20.080 --> 0:35:23.640
<v Speaker 2>had to leave his job. So and we still haven't

0:35:23.680 --> 0:35:26.400
<v Speaker 2>gotten to the worst of the war. So yeah, summer

0:35:26.440 --> 0:35:29.239
<v Speaker 2>twenty seventeen, it gets hot. Sheffield City Council receives a

0:35:29.320 --> 0:35:32.239
<v Speaker 2>final report from the commissioned independent tree Panel, the one the.

0:35:32.480 --> 0:35:35.080
<v Speaker 3>Rich real first pay, Oh, okay, what does it suggest

0:35:35.400 --> 0:35:36.520
<v Speaker 3>don't cut down trees?

0:35:36.880 --> 0:35:38.880
<v Speaker 2>Now you know it? Now the City Council they had

0:35:38.920 --> 0:35:40.800
<v Speaker 2>posed this question always as a debate of do you

0:35:40.840 --> 0:35:44.280
<v Speaker 2>want trees or smooth roads? Well, the Action Group STAG

0:35:44.320 --> 0:35:46.319
<v Speaker 2>and they had always said, that's a false debate. We

0:35:46.400 --> 0:35:49.880
<v Speaker 2>can have both. Well, the tree panel, the independent panel,

0:35:49.920 --> 0:35:52.800
<v Speaker 2>they said, that's exactly correct. You can totally have smooth

0:35:52.920 --> 0:35:55.840
<v Speaker 2>roads and trees. So they said, like, you know, I

0:35:56.120 --> 0:35:58.280
<v Speaker 2>understand you want to do the mass removal of trees,

0:35:58.320 --> 0:36:01.920
<v Speaker 2>but that's not necessary really the absolute only way to

0:36:01.960 --> 0:36:04.640
<v Speaker 2>do this. So the City Council's decision to continue chopping

0:36:04.719 --> 0:36:07.520
<v Speaker 2>down trees because they decided, you know what, that's a

0:36:07.520 --> 0:36:09.919
<v Speaker 2>great report and no we're not doing that.

0:36:10.200 --> 0:36:12.480
<v Speaker 3>So and again, were they going to replace these with

0:36:12.600 --> 0:36:13.759
<v Speaker 3>saplings or were they just.

0:36:13.719 --> 0:36:16.239
<v Speaker 2>Gonna they're taking trees out, pulling them out of the earth,

0:36:16.239 --> 0:36:19.040
<v Speaker 2>putting in saplings. Okay, and you're really small like.

0:36:19.880 --> 0:36:21.719
<v Speaker 3>So then they were supposed to fix the roads at

0:36:21.719 --> 0:36:22.640
<v Speaker 3>the same time, and.

0:36:22.600 --> 0:36:26.000
<v Speaker 2>They thought that by doing that, the root structure would

0:36:26.000 --> 0:36:28.120
<v Speaker 2>no longer keep growing and lifting the roads, so then

0:36:28.120 --> 0:36:30.480
<v Speaker 2>they can get a handle of the road row exactly.

0:36:30.600 --> 0:36:33.000
<v Speaker 2>But it turns out it was a little more complicated

0:36:33.120 --> 0:36:36.080
<v Speaker 2>because at this point, basically the city council says, we

0:36:36.120 --> 0:36:37.880
<v Speaker 2>don't care about all this, like, oh, we shouldn't cut

0:36:37.880 --> 0:36:40.160
<v Speaker 2>down trees. We're cutting down trees, So anybody says don't

0:36:40.200 --> 0:36:42.919
<v Speaker 2>cut down trees, they're wrong. Basically, at this point, they'd

0:36:42.960 --> 0:36:45.359
<v Speaker 2>also forsaken the moral high ground because they're just going

0:36:45.400 --> 0:36:48.480
<v Speaker 2>with policy. They're not listening to anybody. So this guarantees

0:36:48.520 --> 0:36:51.319
<v Speaker 2>that violence will now be the next response because they're

0:36:51.320 --> 0:36:54.480
<v Speaker 2>not listening anymore. They're ignoring experts, they're ignoring the process,

0:36:54.520 --> 0:36:56.880
<v Speaker 2>they won't talk to anyone. The people are desperate, The

0:36:56.880 --> 0:36:58.600
<v Speaker 2>people are willing to put their own bodies in danger.

0:36:58.640 --> 0:37:01.160
<v Speaker 2>What's next, They're gonna put your body in danger. So

0:37:01.239 --> 0:37:03.240
<v Speaker 2>this is when the authorities opt to pursue a policy

0:37:03.239 --> 0:37:06.319
<v Speaker 2>that normally is reserved for gang members in southern California,

0:37:06.760 --> 0:37:10.520
<v Speaker 2>they sought an injunction against the protesters, making it illegal

0:37:10.560 --> 0:37:12.600
<v Speaker 2>for them to gather and oppose the tree fellings in

0:37:12.640 --> 0:37:15.560
<v Speaker 2>the mass removal. The new injunctions raimed at specifically sixteen

0:37:15.600 --> 0:37:17.880
<v Speaker 2>of the lead protesters. They were all given letters that

0:37:17.920 --> 0:37:19.640
<v Speaker 2>told them that they would face prison time, they'd be

0:37:19.680 --> 0:37:22.920
<v Speaker 2>financially liable for delays, court costs. It's estimated to run

0:37:22.960 --> 0:37:24.920
<v Speaker 2>into the hundreds of thousands of pounds, as obviously was

0:37:24.960 --> 0:37:28.240
<v Speaker 2>meant to be a scare tactic. Interestingly, the tree surgeons

0:37:28.239 --> 0:37:31.200
<v Speaker 2>from Amy, who would be essentially protected by this injunction,

0:37:31.360 --> 0:37:34.120
<v Speaker 2>they opposed it. They're like, don't do this, this is dumb. Instead,

0:37:34.160 --> 0:37:37.920
<v Speaker 2>they offered to carry the costs themselves of finding alternative

0:37:37.960 --> 0:37:41.080
<v Speaker 2>solutions to fix the streets without removing trees. They're now

0:37:41.120 --> 0:37:45.120
<v Speaker 2>willing to become street fixers. The Highways team they hear

0:37:45.160 --> 0:37:47.480
<v Speaker 2>about this plan to concede to the protesters, and they

0:37:47.480 --> 0:37:50.680
<v Speaker 2>take a hard line stance. So enter the sunken cost fallacy.

0:37:50.800 --> 0:37:53.279
<v Speaker 2>Now it's the user to them bunker mentality and the

0:37:53.280 --> 0:37:57.719
<v Speaker 2>sunken cost fallacy teaming up the executive buzz Killington or

0:37:57.880 --> 0:38:00.799
<v Speaker 2>the Billington He writes an email that's speaks directly to

0:38:00.880 --> 0:38:02.799
<v Speaker 2>this when he says, and I quote, given we spent

0:38:02.840 --> 0:38:04.879
<v Speaker 2>one hundred and fifty thousand pounds to get this far,

0:38:04.960 --> 0:38:07.880
<v Speaker 2>we don't really have a choice. Oh yeah, okay, we

0:38:07.960 --> 0:38:09.200
<v Speaker 2>spent that much. Gotta go through with.

0:38:09.160 --> 0:38:10.960
<v Speaker 3>It, even though these guys are saying they'll fit the

0:38:10.960 --> 0:38:12.760
<v Speaker 3>bill for this exactly, so it isn't.

0:38:12.600 --> 0:38:15.160
<v Speaker 2>Really about the money, since they've nixed Amy's offer to

0:38:15.160 --> 0:38:17.800
<v Speaker 2>save the city council money by paying for their own costs.

0:38:17.800 --> 0:38:20.359
<v Speaker 2>But this point, Billington and the others from the highway team,

0:38:20.520 --> 0:38:23.120
<v Speaker 2>they're loaded for Bear Elizabeth. They're going up for a hunt.

0:38:23.160 --> 0:38:25.680
<v Speaker 2>So they want the war. They want Amy and the

0:38:25.719 --> 0:38:28.880
<v Speaker 2>Tree Surgeons to understand what side they are on. Billington

0:38:28.960 --> 0:38:31.239
<v Speaker 2>rights to Amy and his Tree Surgeons on November sixth,

0:38:31.280 --> 0:38:34.600
<v Speaker 2>twenty seventeen. You are losing the battle. The council is

0:38:34.719 --> 0:38:37.000
<v Speaker 2>very frustrated at the current policy of turn up and

0:38:37.080 --> 0:38:39.360
<v Speaker 2>pack up. So what do they do. They were so

0:38:39.440 --> 0:38:43.840
<v Speaker 2>incensive they start not paying Amy. They withheld two point

0:38:43.920 --> 0:38:46.920
<v Speaker 2>five million pounds of the promised contract. They're like the

0:38:46.920 --> 0:38:49.120
<v Speaker 2>over five month period, they're just not paying them. They're like,

0:38:49.200 --> 0:38:51.080
<v Speaker 2>unless you start doing stuff, we're not gonna pay you.

0:38:51.120 --> 0:38:52.839
<v Speaker 2>And they keep complaining and saying like it's because you're

0:38:52.880 --> 0:38:54.440
<v Speaker 2>not you turn up and pack up. Yeah, but they

0:38:54.480 --> 0:38:56.640
<v Speaker 2>can't do anything, so they're now putting the pressure on

0:38:56.680 --> 0:39:00.200
<v Speaker 2>them their own like associates. Yeah yeah, anyway, seeing which

0:39:00.239 --> 0:39:02.680
<v Speaker 2>way the wind blow. That same November, Amy hired private

0:39:02.719 --> 0:39:05.800
<v Speaker 2>security to protect their tree surgeons from the anger and

0:39:05.840 --> 0:39:08.719
<v Speaker 2>the ire of the protesters, and they they are given

0:39:09.000 --> 0:39:11.960
<v Speaker 2>the right to manhandle the protesters because in accords with

0:39:12.000 --> 0:39:14.880
<v Speaker 2>the injunction, this works, you have to get out of

0:39:14.920 --> 0:39:17.040
<v Speaker 2>the way of the tree removal. So at this point

0:39:17.080 --> 0:39:20.399
<v Speaker 2>the Great Tree War becomes an endurance fight who could

0:39:20.400 --> 0:39:22.960
<v Speaker 2>outlast the other. Amy and his tree surgeons also begin

0:39:23.040 --> 0:39:25.560
<v Speaker 2>to track and document all the protesters. So now the

0:39:25.560 --> 0:39:30.120
<v Speaker 2>protesters start donning masks, disguises, they adopt out rageous accents.

0:39:30.160 --> 0:39:33.759
<v Speaker 2>They're speaking in Glasswegian accents for no reason. It's just amazing, right.

0:39:34.120 --> 0:39:36.120
<v Speaker 2>So this is also when the bunnies, the geckos, and

0:39:36.160 --> 0:39:39.240
<v Speaker 2>the squirrels enter the picture. Well, you may be wondering,

0:39:39.520 --> 0:39:41.000
<v Speaker 2>did I just have like a snow white moment? What

0:39:41.040 --> 0:39:42.480
<v Speaker 2>do you mean? The bunny, the geckos, so that the

0:39:42.480 --> 0:39:46.840
<v Speaker 2>protesters they self sorted into three animal forms bunnies, geckos,

0:39:46.880 --> 0:39:50.520
<v Speaker 2>and squirrels. Elizabeth, see the bunnies, they they're bounders, so

0:39:50.560 --> 0:39:53.120
<v Speaker 2>they are responsible for hopping and bounding over the garden

0:39:53.160 --> 0:39:55.560
<v Speaker 2>walls and all the erected metal barriers, and then they

0:39:55.560 --> 0:39:58.160
<v Speaker 2>would help to keep the protesters away from the safe

0:39:58.200 --> 0:39:59.880
<v Speaker 2>zones beneath the trees is to be cut down. So

0:40:00.000 --> 0:40:02.680
<v Speaker 2>they top over these barriers and then go hey and

0:40:02.680 --> 0:40:05.800
<v Speaker 2>they hop a hug up against the trees. That's the bunnies.

0:40:05.920 --> 0:40:08.799
<v Speaker 2>The geckos, they would thrust themselves against walls, you know,

0:40:08.840 --> 0:40:10.600
<v Speaker 2>like how they stick to a wall, and they would

0:40:10.600 --> 0:40:12.279
<v Speaker 2>make it to the barrier couldn't be closed and other

0:40:12.280 --> 0:40:14.920
<v Speaker 2>people could prush through or whatever. That's the goes. Then

0:40:15.040 --> 0:40:17.480
<v Speaker 2>we have the squirrels, as you can might imagine, they

0:40:17.480 --> 0:40:20.360
<v Speaker 2>would bravely climb the trees and perch in the branches,

0:40:20.360 --> 0:40:22.799
<v Speaker 2>making it impossible to cut the tree down. They were

0:40:22.840 --> 0:40:26.400
<v Speaker 2>the bravest of the freedom fighters in the green tree. Yeah.

0:40:26.440 --> 0:40:28.160
<v Speaker 2>So their success has been set up the stage for

0:40:28.200 --> 0:40:31.000
<v Speaker 2>the violence to come, because now we're getting actual engagement

0:40:31.080 --> 0:40:33.799
<v Speaker 2>and tactics and strategies and groups and you got commandos.

0:40:33.840 --> 0:40:37.759
<v Speaker 2>So this leads to the Battle of Meares Brook Park

0:40:37.840 --> 0:40:42.680
<v Speaker 2>Road January fifteen, twenty eighteen. The city Council has been

0:40:42.680 --> 0:40:45.400
<v Speaker 2>putting pressure on Amy to stand tall right, to do

0:40:45.480 --> 0:40:47.320
<v Speaker 2>the right thing, and to do this, they've authorized the

0:40:47.440 --> 0:40:50.319
<v Speaker 2>use of reasonable force, so the private security are now

0:40:50.440 --> 0:40:53.480
<v Speaker 2>basically unofficially deputized by the city council to rough up

0:40:53.480 --> 0:40:56.160
<v Speaker 2>the protesters. This means they can grab the bunnies and

0:40:56.200 --> 0:40:58.239
<v Speaker 2>toss them out of the safe zones. They can they

0:40:58.280 --> 0:41:01.120
<v Speaker 2>can pull geckos off the wall. They can grab squirrels

0:41:01.120 --> 0:41:03.440
<v Speaker 2>out of the tree, which is not gonna go good right.

0:41:03.520 --> 0:41:05.560
<v Speaker 2>This is also they don't have to worry about legal consequence.

0:41:05.560 --> 0:41:07.719
<v Speaker 2>They're like, we got you, you just rough them up.

0:41:08.200 --> 0:41:10.120
<v Speaker 2>This all comes to a head in the Battle of Mirrors,

0:41:10.160 --> 0:41:14.120
<v Speaker 2>Brook Park Road. The crowd that day big, angry, loud, raucous.

0:41:14.160 --> 0:41:17.600
<v Speaker 2>They were energized by recent successes. The private security equally

0:41:17.719 --> 0:41:21.640
<v Speaker 2>energize conflicts guaranteed. One bunny, an older married woman in

0:41:21.680 --> 0:41:24.400
<v Speaker 2>her sixties, hopped over a barricade entered the safe zone.

0:41:24.520 --> 0:41:27.120
<v Speaker 2>She's grabbed by private security. In response, she flops on

0:41:27.160 --> 0:41:29.600
<v Speaker 2>the ground right. Her husband sees this, but he only

0:41:29.600 --> 0:41:31.160
<v Speaker 2>sees his wife on the ground. He misses that she

0:41:31.280 --> 0:41:33.360
<v Speaker 2>throw us up on the ground, and he just sees

0:41:33.360 --> 0:41:35.839
<v Speaker 2>the menacing private security or like you know, standing over

0:41:35.960 --> 0:41:40.000
<v Speaker 2>her like a husband. He charges the barricade, knocks it down,

0:41:40.040 --> 0:41:43.279
<v Speaker 2>and then twenty other protesters like basically poured like like

0:41:43.360 --> 0:41:45.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, sheep through a gate with him. They all

0:41:45.680 --> 0:41:47.960
<v Speaker 2>rush in there. Now the elder husband gets to his

0:41:48.000 --> 0:41:49.840
<v Speaker 2>wife's side. He helps her up to her feet, but

0:41:49.880 --> 0:41:51.759
<v Speaker 2>they have to pretend not to know each other, because

0:41:51.760 --> 0:41:53.319
<v Speaker 2>if they know each other and their husband and wife

0:41:53.320 --> 0:41:55.399
<v Speaker 2>will be identified and then the injunction will put them

0:41:55.400 --> 0:41:57.360
<v Speaker 2>in jail. So they got on the go. Are you

0:41:57.360 --> 0:41:59.640
<v Speaker 2>all right, whoever you are? So they're having this like

0:41:59.719 --> 0:42:03.200
<v Speaker 2>fake exactly. It's a really sweet anyway. News media is

0:42:03.200 --> 0:42:05.640
<v Speaker 2>there on hand. They're snapping photos of this confrontation. They're

0:42:05.680 --> 0:42:08.440
<v Speaker 2>seeing all this. The photos are amazing, the elders on

0:42:08.480 --> 0:42:11.359
<v Speaker 2>the ground, the menacing boots of private security above them,

0:42:11.600 --> 0:42:15.839
<v Speaker 2>the UK, the whole country, the United Kingdom. Rather, they

0:42:15.920 --> 0:42:18.799
<v Speaker 2>are outraged as this story becomes national news. Now it's

0:42:18.800 --> 0:42:20.920
<v Speaker 2>just green Britain and they're beating up the elders. This

0:42:21.040 --> 0:42:24.200
<v Speaker 2>is terrible. Sheffield City Council, the Highways team, they have

0:42:24.280 --> 0:42:27.120
<v Speaker 2>to lick their wounds and regroup for the next front

0:42:27.160 --> 0:42:29.840
<v Speaker 2>in the ongoing tree war. Right, so the tree surgeons

0:42:29.840 --> 0:42:31.800
<v Speaker 2>at Amy, they announced that they plan to pause the

0:42:31.840 --> 0:42:34.120
<v Speaker 2>tree removals. They say, Okay, we're gonna just pause and like,

0:42:34.160 --> 0:42:36.520
<v Speaker 2>let's think about this for a month. The Highways team

0:42:36.560 --> 0:42:39.160
<v Speaker 2>they go, no, we're not doing that. I'm thinking about anything.

0:42:39.200 --> 0:42:41.480
<v Speaker 2>So the executive of Old Buzz Killington, he sends an

0:42:41.520 --> 0:42:43.920
<v Speaker 2>email to the in house council, a lawyer for the

0:42:43.920 --> 0:42:46.200
<v Speaker 2>Streets Ahead program, going like what are we gonna do

0:42:46.239 --> 0:42:49.800
<v Speaker 2>about this subject line? Please print and then delete.

0:42:50.400 --> 0:42:52.200
<v Speaker 3>Oh to a lawyer.

0:42:52.280 --> 0:42:53.360
<v Speaker 2>He sent to a lawyer.

0:42:54.640 --> 0:42:57.960
<v Speaker 3>You know, like the lawyer gets it and just you.

0:42:57.920 --> 0:43:02.120
<v Speaker 2>Can't do this to me. So in email Killington, No

0:43:02.320 --> 0:43:04.960
<v Speaker 2>Buzz Killington, he recommended they try a new approach. He

0:43:05.040 --> 0:43:07.840
<v Speaker 2>recommended that they ring the trees, as in ring barking.

0:43:07.960 --> 0:43:09.680
<v Speaker 2>You know, this is where you basically take out a

0:43:09.719 --> 0:43:11.800
<v Speaker 2>big gouge in the tree all the way around and

0:43:11.920 --> 0:43:15.040
<v Speaker 2>interrupts the flow of the nutrients up and down the

0:43:15.080 --> 0:43:18.279
<v Speaker 2>bark or inside the bark basically, so the tree just dies.

0:43:19.280 --> 0:43:22.120
<v Speaker 2>It's basically it's like cutting its throat. So he puts

0:43:22.160 --> 0:43:24.359
<v Speaker 2>in his email quote the tree is killed and dies

0:43:24.400 --> 0:43:26.400
<v Speaker 2>over a number of months, it would move all trees

0:43:26.440 --> 0:43:28.920
<v Speaker 2>into the dying category. It means that stag can no

0:43:28.960 --> 0:43:31.799
<v Speaker 2>longer claim that they were defending healthy trees. The in

0:43:31.920 --> 0:43:35.680
<v Speaker 2>House Council Elizabeth ruled this out as an extreme taxic. Yeah. Yeah,

0:43:35.920 --> 0:43:39.560
<v Speaker 2>like we can't start killing no anyway. So we're in February.

0:43:39.680 --> 0:43:42.239
<v Speaker 2>Now we have claims of sabotage on the part of

0:43:42.280 --> 0:43:44.800
<v Speaker 2>the protesters. Allegedly an elderly couple they offered some of

0:43:44.840 --> 0:43:46.920
<v Speaker 2>the tree surgeons some hot tea, and the tea was

0:43:46.960 --> 0:43:50.600
<v Speaker 2>loaded with laxatives, so the tree surgeons would have to

0:43:50.960 --> 0:43:53.960
<v Speaker 2>rushing to the porta potty that couldn't work. Now the

0:43:54.040 --> 0:43:56.120
<v Speaker 2>elderly couple says this is not true.

0:43:56.160 --> 0:43:58.479
<v Speaker 3>I don't know if this just can't handle their teeth.

0:43:58.520 --> 0:44:00.239
<v Speaker 2>They're just crappy on their own. I don't know. They're

0:44:00.280 --> 0:44:02.880
<v Speaker 2>blaming us. Now the case of the crappy tea becomes

0:44:02.920 --> 0:44:05.280
<v Speaker 2>another national news story. So now they're just looking silly,

0:44:05.280 --> 0:44:07.320
<v Speaker 2>they're looking mean. They're not looking good in any of

0:44:07.400 --> 0:44:09.520
<v Speaker 2>these news stories. At the same time, violence is becoming

0:44:09.520 --> 0:44:13.080
<v Speaker 2>more common, so they're looking brutish and laughable security guard

0:44:13.080 --> 0:44:15.680
<v Speaker 2>has his wrist broken. Age protesters are being sent to

0:44:15.719 --> 0:44:19.279
<v Speaker 2>the hospital for medical treatment. By March twenty eighteen, Shiftfield's

0:44:19.280 --> 0:44:22.200
<v Speaker 2>head of communication writes another email, put simply, there is

0:44:22.239 --> 0:44:25.239
<v Speaker 2>no good picture of older residents being arrested. There is

0:44:25.280 --> 0:44:27.960
<v Speaker 2>no good way to photograph a tree lying in the street.

0:44:28.480 --> 0:44:31.440
<v Speaker 2>He's like, we are losing the great war. We are

0:44:31.480 --> 0:44:33.759
<v Speaker 2>losing the public, we are losing the information war.

0:44:33.880 --> 0:44:35.160
<v Speaker 3>The optics they're terrible.

0:44:35.160 --> 0:44:37.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, the optics are gone. They lost those. So

0:44:38.000 --> 0:44:40.120
<v Speaker 2>the tree surgeons they informed the city Council they will

0:44:40.120 --> 0:44:42.080
<v Speaker 2>no longer be able to quote keep calm and carry on.

0:44:42.440 --> 0:44:45.680
<v Speaker 2>They're same for the South Yorkshire Police. They're like, look,

0:44:45.719 --> 0:44:48.400
<v Speaker 2>we're bailing on your war. It's draining our resources. This

0:44:48.440 --> 0:44:51.440
<v Speaker 2>is ridiculous. The Forestry Commission of the Nation opens an

0:44:51.480 --> 0:44:54.920
<v Speaker 2>investigation determined if the tree removals even legal or not. So.

0:44:55.040 --> 0:44:57.520
<v Speaker 2>Now this is the end of March. The tree surgeons

0:44:57.520 --> 0:44:59.960
<v Speaker 2>at Amy they announced they would pause all tree removals.

0:45:00.040 --> 0:45:02.799
<v Speaker 2>At this point, five thousand, six hundred trees have been

0:45:02.840 --> 0:45:06.160
<v Speaker 2>chopped down. That was fifteen percent of the total. That's

0:45:06.280 --> 0:45:09.400
<v Speaker 2>five times more than the three percent that was recommended anyway,

0:45:09.440 --> 0:45:12.399
<v Speaker 2>the Great Tree War is now over. Time to win

0:45:12.480 --> 0:45:16.520
<v Speaker 2>the peace, Elizabeth. In May there were local elections. The

0:45:16.560 --> 0:45:20.719
<v Speaker 2>City Council suffered stunning losses. Oh new leadership put new

0:45:20.760 --> 0:45:23.919
<v Speaker 2>people in charge of the Streets Ahead program. They open

0:45:24.000 --> 0:45:27.040
<v Speaker 2>up peace talks with the Tree defenders. Their first meeting

0:45:27.040 --> 0:45:29.960
<v Speaker 2>takes place in September. Months later, the peace talks require

0:45:30.000 --> 0:45:32.560
<v Speaker 2>a mediator because things are still so hot. The mediator

0:45:32.640 --> 0:45:36.520
<v Speaker 2>is the Bishop of Sheffield. Stop it, yeah, Son. More

0:45:36.560 --> 0:45:39.680
<v Speaker 2>months passes did peace talks go on and on. By

0:45:39.680 --> 0:45:42.800
<v Speaker 2>December twenty eighteen, the two groups released a joint statement.

0:45:43.080 --> 0:45:45.640
<v Speaker 2>Going forward, the city Council would work with residents to

0:45:45.680 --> 0:45:48.799
<v Speaker 2>create a reasonable solution for the remaining trees. The next year,

0:45:48.840 --> 0:45:52.120
<v Speaker 2>a new team of experts they convene. They select twelve

0:45:52.160 --> 0:45:54.439
<v Speaker 2>trees at random, and they inspect them. And the team

0:45:54.480 --> 0:45:57.719
<v Speaker 2>finds that the streets could be repaired without removing any

0:45:57.760 --> 0:46:00.400
<v Speaker 2>of the trees. You See, they'd always assume that the

0:46:00.440 --> 0:46:02.920
<v Speaker 2>trees were the problem and it was the roots, but

0:46:02.960 --> 0:46:06.560
<v Speaker 2>no one had actually tested that theory. Oh, when they

0:46:06.560 --> 0:46:09.280
<v Speaker 2>did check it, when someone actually did look, the problem

0:46:09.400 --> 0:46:11.960
<v Speaker 2>was the streets themselves, because prior repairs had always just

0:46:11.960 --> 0:46:14.319
<v Speaker 2>poured more asphalt on top of a broken asphalt, and

0:46:14.360 --> 0:46:16.640
<v Speaker 2>then more asphalts. Some of the areas they checked were

0:46:16.640 --> 0:46:18.440
<v Speaker 2>a foot thick the road surface.

0:46:18.719 --> 0:46:20.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's the issue.

0:46:21.000 --> 0:46:23.000
<v Speaker 2>So after inspecting the twelve trees, they found that many

0:46:23.000 --> 0:46:24.880
<v Speaker 2>times not only did the trees not need to be

0:46:24.920 --> 0:46:27.520
<v Speaker 2>cut down, but the repairs could be performed the same

0:46:27.600 --> 0:46:31.960
<v Speaker 2>day as the inspection. Oh, the years of bitter conflict, violence,

0:46:32.000 --> 0:46:34.040
<v Speaker 2>threats of prison time could have all been avoided if

0:46:34.040 --> 0:46:36.520
<v Speaker 2>the city council had considered the actual task in hand,

0:46:36.719 --> 0:46:39.120
<v Speaker 2>instead of falling into their our side, your side, our side,

0:46:39.280 --> 0:46:42.799
<v Speaker 2>and then weird language problems like mature trees. I don't

0:46:42.800 --> 0:46:46.160
<v Speaker 2>know about it, some younger trees. So Elizabeth, what's a

0:46:46.320 --> 0:46:47.640
<v Speaker 2>ridiculous takeaway here?

0:46:47.760 --> 0:46:50.400
<v Speaker 3>Oh my goodness. You know, I'm thinking about it, and

0:46:50.400 --> 0:46:53.279
<v Speaker 3>it's like I understand obviously, you know, like I love

0:46:53.840 --> 0:46:55.160
<v Speaker 3>plants and trees.

0:46:54.920 --> 0:46:56.279
<v Speaker 2>And they occasionally do need to be taken out.

0:46:56.320 --> 0:46:58.799
<v Speaker 3>They do, And I think that's sometimes you get, you know,

0:46:59.200 --> 0:47:01.680
<v Speaker 3>a little bit too enamored of the notion of saving

0:47:01.680 --> 0:47:04.080
<v Speaker 3>everything and it can't be saved. You know, some things

0:47:04.440 --> 0:47:06.680
<v Speaker 3>grow better after being cut back severely.

0:47:06.880 --> 0:47:07.600
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, you know.

0:47:07.680 --> 0:47:11.800
<v Speaker 3>The whole crape myrtle, crape murder thing. But in terms

0:47:11.800 --> 0:47:14.720
<v Speaker 3>of if you're removing these trees, you know, I'm feeling

0:47:14.760 --> 0:47:17.640
<v Speaker 3>like you don't want them to take out mature trees

0:47:17.680 --> 0:47:19.040
<v Speaker 3>that are in their prime.

0:47:19.120 --> 0:47:20.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they're fruiting fire, so.

0:47:20.160 --> 0:47:21.719
<v Speaker 3>You have to be okay with you know, they don't

0:47:21.760 --> 0:47:23.840
<v Speaker 3>live forever, sure, and I think a lot of people

0:47:23.920 --> 0:47:26.040
<v Speaker 3>lose sight of that, and particularly if they're going to

0:47:26.080 --> 0:47:29.440
<v Speaker 3>replace them. You know, that's a huge thing. They're not

0:47:29.520 --> 0:47:30.960
<v Speaker 3>just paving everything.

0:47:30.640 --> 0:47:32.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but they think think of the effect of losing

0:47:32.840 --> 0:47:35.879
<v Speaker 2>all that the leafy, shady stret You can take all

0:47:35.920 --> 0:47:37.920
<v Speaker 2>the trees down on a street, not just one or

0:47:37.920 --> 0:47:40.319
<v Speaker 2>two and you're replacing those, but all eight on one

0:47:40.360 --> 0:47:43.040
<v Speaker 2>side of the all those houses outside of the street,

0:47:43.040 --> 0:47:45.399
<v Speaker 2>they have a much different experience impact and they can't

0:47:45.440 --> 0:47:46.920
<v Speaker 2>just pick up their helme and move. So the trees

0:47:46.960 --> 0:47:48.879
<v Speaker 2>become part of their environment and they saw them as

0:47:48.960 --> 0:47:49.520
<v Speaker 2>their trees.

0:47:49.600 --> 0:47:52.160
<v Speaker 3>And you do need it for you know, pollution abatement

0:47:52.719 --> 0:47:56.640
<v Speaker 3>and just you know, just chealthy air quality and everything. Yeah,

0:47:56.680 --> 0:47:57.040
<v Speaker 3>so you.

0:47:57.040 --> 0:47:59.840
<v Speaker 2>Can see both sides. But I can do it all

0:48:00.440 --> 0:48:06.200
<v Speaker 2>what it look at you, Well, the deal, Elizabeth, is

0:48:06.280 --> 0:48:08.600
<v Speaker 2>this for me? I thought it was just basic because

0:48:08.600 --> 0:48:10.680
<v Speaker 2>I pointed out ridiculous that it all came down to

0:48:10.719 --> 0:48:13.480
<v Speaker 2>the word mature trees. And then yeah, the whole our side,

0:48:13.480 --> 0:48:15.799
<v Speaker 2>my side, like instead of getting down And I always

0:48:15.800 --> 0:48:17.439
<v Speaker 2>point this out whenever I'm trying to have an argument

0:48:17.440 --> 0:48:19.160
<v Speaker 2>with somebody, is what are we actually fighting about? And

0:48:19.200 --> 0:48:20.520
<v Speaker 2>what how do we get to a win? Like how

0:48:20.520 --> 0:48:22.440
<v Speaker 2>do we want there to be? Like what is the result?

0:48:22.760 --> 0:48:24.160
<v Speaker 2>And then if we can get to that, we can

0:48:24.200 --> 0:48:26.000
<v Speaker 2>figure out what the obstacle is. And sometimes it's not

0:48:26.040 --> 0:48:27.799
<v Speaker 2>so much about my side your side, but what do

0:48:27.840 --> 0:48:29.440
<v Speaker 2>we both have to do to get there? And then

0:48:29.480 --> 0:48:31.680
<v Speaker 2>you don't think of it as compromised. As I've told you.

0:48:31.840 --> 0:48:33.840
<v Speaker 2>I try to stand shoulder to shoulder somebody and we

0:48:33.880 --> 0:48:35.719
<v Speaker 2>both look at the problem as opposed to across the

0:48:35.760 --> 0:48:37.799
<v Speaker 2>table where it seems like only one side of the

0:48:37.840 --> 0:48:39.960
<v Speaker 2>table can win. That's all they had to do is

0:48:40.000 --> 0:48:41.920
<v Speaker 2>just look at the problem standing shoulder to shoulder, and

0:48:41.960 --> 0:48:44.480
<v Speaker 2>boom done. They would have seen like, oh, it's the roads.

0:48:44.600 --> 0:48:46.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and when we live in a time of us

0:48:46.719 --> 0:48:47.360
<v Speaker 3>in them.

0:48:47.200 --> 0:48:49.680
<v Speaker 2>And exactly speaks to our times.

0:48:49.800 --> 0:48:52.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's just pre COVID.

0:48:52.560 --> 0:48:55.239
<v Speaker 2>That's the only big difference Anyway, there you go. That's

0:48:55.280 --> 0:48:59.880
<v Speaker 2>what I got for you. I'm telling you shed light,

0:49:00.080 --> 0:49:03.560
<v Speaker 2>good shob. You can find us online Ridiculous Crime, Twitter, Instagram,

0:49:03.640 --> 0:49:06.759
<v Speaker 2>Uh yeah, we also have website ridictascrime dot com and

0:49:06.840 --> 0:49:09.040
<v Speaker 2>if we like to talkbacks on the iHeart app, so

0:49:09.080 --> 0:49:11.960
<v Speaker 2>download that lead talkback or send us an email at

0:49:12.000 --> 0:49:15.399
<v Speaker 2>ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com. As always started with

0:49:15.960 --> 0:49:20.000
<v Speaker 2>Dear elizad Zaren is so cool. Now. Anyway, there you go.

0:49:20.040 --> 0:49:28.359
<v Speaker 2>That's all we got, catch you next crime. Ridiculous Crime

0:49:28.440 --> 0:49:31.000
<v Speaker 2>is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and Zaron Burnett's produced and

0:49:31.120 --> 0:49:34.440
<v Speaker 2>edited by our Man in Flesh, Shank Northumberlin, Dave Kusti.

0:49:34.680 --> 0:49:38.080
<v Speaker 2>Research is by Marissa Trees, are Life Brown and Andrea

0:49:38.200 --> 0:49:40.799
<v Speaker 2>Have they never read the Giving Tree Song? Sharpened Her?

0:49:41.120 --> 0:49:43.640
<v Speaker 2>Our theme song is by Thomas the Tree Doctor Lee

0:49:43.920 --> 0:49:47.040
<v Speaker 2>and Travis Captain of the Flying Squad Dutton. The host

0:49:47.120 --> 0:49:50.799
<v Speaker 2>wardrobe provided by by five hundred executive producers are Ben

0:49:50.960 --> 0:49:53.560
<v Speaker 2>I got the chopper, You get the copper Bowlin and

0:49:53.680 --> 0:49:55.879
<v Speaker 2>Noel let me add him Brown.

0:50:00.040 --> 0:50:00.399
<v Speaker 3>M hmm.

0:50:00.719 --> 0:50:06.560
<v Speaker 2>Bridicrious Crime say it one more time, Budiqueous Crime.

0:50:07.560 --> 0:50:10.880
<v Speaker 1>Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio. Four more podcasts

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