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Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy four, just months after the Watergate scandal

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Speaker 1: ended with Richard Nixon's resignation, another man who for decades

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Speaker 1: had also helped shape America's place in the world was

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Speaker 1: quietly dismissed from his job. William Colby, who was then

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Speaker 1: the head of the CIA, fired spymaster James Jesus Angleton.

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Speaker 2: Colby made the decision after a front page expose in

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Speaker 2: The New York Times revealed that Angleton was running a

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Speaker 2: massive domestic spying program. The CIA was spying on ten

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Speaker 2: thousand Americans involved in the anti war movement and other

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Speaker 2: dissident groups.

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Speaker 1: Colby had been trying to get rid of Angleton for years,

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Speaker 1: but Angleton was a bit of a legend. He was

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Speaker 1: the head of counterintelligence for the CIA, and for better

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Speaker 1: or for worse, he was one of the agency's founding fathers.

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Speaker 1: Journalists who are hoping to be the next Woodward and

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Speaker 1: Bernstein were all over this story. They wanted to know why.

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Speaker 1: The buzz around Angleton's firing prompted the formation of a

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Speaker 1: special Senate committee headed up by Idaho Senator Frank Church,

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Speaker 1: and for the first time in the CIA's history, their

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Speaker 1: dirty laundry was about to be exposed.

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Speaker 2: The Church Committee published its final report in April of

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Speaker 2: nineteen seventy six. It revealed a trove of secret abuses

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Speaker 2: at the hands of the CIA, NSA, FBI, and the IRS.

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Speaker 2: Before and after the Cold War. These agencies were involved

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Speaker 2: in global assassination conspiracies, infiltrating news programs, and conducting mind

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Speaker 2: control experiments through programs like mk Ultra. The Committee's revelations

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Speaker 2: shocked Americans.

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Speaker 1: We'll get into all of that over the next few episodes,

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Speaker 1: but for now, what's important understand is that in the

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixties, James Jesus Angleton had control over a network

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Speaker 1: of spies, informants, and double agents that reached into the

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Speaker 1: farthest corners of the globe, and the events that would

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Speaker 1: be the cause of his dismissal were just getting underway.

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Speaker 2: This is who killed JFK. Sixty years later, What can

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Speaker 2: we uncover about the greatest murder mystery in American history?

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Speaker 2: And why does it still matter today? I'm your host,

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Speaker 2: Solidad O'Brien.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the counterintelligence world of James Jesus Angleton, a

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Speaker 1: world he referred to as the wilderness of mirrors.

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Speaker 2: The term wilderness of mirrors points to the tactic of

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Speaker 2: deception and disinformation that both the CIA and the KGB

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Speaker 2: used against each other during the Cold War.

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Speaker 1: It's a world where it's virtually impossible to tell what

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Speaker 1: his reality and what is merely a reflection of reality,

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Speaker 1: and our journey into the wilderness starts with Lee Harvey Oswald.

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Speaker 1: So let's recap. Oswald was a disenchanted young man who

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Speaker 1: found himself in the psychological study run by a doctor

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Speaker 1: with connections to the CIA. At age seventeen, he enlisted

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Speaker 1: in the Marines and was shipped to Japan, where he

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Speaker 1: received a security clearance to work as a radar operator

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Speaker 1: on U two spyplanes. Upon returning to the United States,

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Speaker 1: he spent time at a base in California and another

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Speaker 1: base in Nagshead, North Carolina, which focused on special operations. Then,

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Speaker 1: after learning Russian, he defected to the Soviet Union. Two

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Speaker 1: years later, he returned to the United States with his

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Speaker 1: Russian wife and baby, and was welcomed back with open arms.

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Speaker 1: He was never questioned why.

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Speaker 2: Well Oswald didn't actually renown his US citizenship when he

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Speaker 2: was in Russia, even though he tried at the embassy,

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Speaker 2: So maybe they didn't take him all that seriously. Maybe

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Speaker 2: they saw him and thought, eh, that guy. You know,

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Speaker 2: he's all bark and no bite. There's this philosophical theory

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Speaker 2: I know, you know, called Ockham's razor, right, that says

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Speaker 2: the simplest answer is often the correct one. So if

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Speaker 2: you apply that here, what if he's just a communist sympathizer.

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Speaker 2: What if he just defected, He just came back to

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Speaker 2: the US and sort of slipped under the radar.

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Speaker 1: It's possible, but don't forget. We are at the height

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Speaker 1: of the Cold War. The fear of nuclear annihilation is

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Speaker 1: hanging over our heads. Now. If you are willing to

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Speaker 1: enter that wilderness of mirrors with me, by the time

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Speaker 1: we exit, I think things will become clear. But I

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Speaker 1: have to warn you. Before things become clear, they will

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Speaker 1: become confusing. And in fact, confusion is the point. So

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Speaker 1: why don't we try to embrace the confusion and step

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Speaker 1: into the wilderness of mirrors. During World War II, America

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Speaker 1: had an intelligence gathering agency called the OSS the Office

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Speaker 1: of Strategic Services. The information that they were able to

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Speaker 1: gather help us win the war. The OSS was officially

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Speaker 1: disbanded nineteen forty five, but certain factions of their work continued.

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Speaker 1: America's biggest enemy at the time was the Soviet Union,

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Speaker 1: and for years they had been honing their skills of

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Speaker 1: covert intelligence operations, so in an effort to play catchup,

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Speaker 1: the OSS was revamped into a full blown intelligence gathering

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Speaker 1: agency in nineteen forty seven. It was called the CIA.

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Speaker 1: In the wake of its creation, President Harry Truman drafted

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Speaker 1: Directive ten slash two, which was a top secret memo

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Speaker 1: that gave the CIA the green light to engage in

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Speaker 1: different forms of warfare, including propaganda, sabotage, and deadly covert

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Speaker 1: operations against anyone it deemed quote hostile to the United States.

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Speaker 1: I think of the ten slash two memo as marching

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Speaker 1: orders into the dark arts of spycraft. And to protect

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Speaker 1: the president, the CIA developed a practice called plausible deniability.

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Speaker 1: If the President wasn't told about a particular secret plan,

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Speaker 1: then he could plausibly deny having anything to do with it.

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Speaker 1: Plausible deniability empowered the CIA to act without presidential approval.

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Speaker 1: They would carry out missions with no awareness outside the agency.

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Speaker 1: Accountability was intentionally clouded. Solidad Could you read this from me?

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Speaker 2: The better you lied, and the more you betrayed, the

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Speaker 2: more likely you would be promoted. I did things that

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Speaker 2: in looking back on my life, I regret, but I

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Speaker 2: was part of it and I loved in it.

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Speaker 1: That is a quote from James Angleton. Now, if you

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Speaker 1: visualize a creepy secret agent from the fifties and sixties,

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Speaker 1: you will see Angleton.

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Speaker 2: I can confirm that pictures of him show a lanky

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Speaker 2: guy with thick glasses, hollow cheekbones, and translucent looking skin.

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Speaker 1: Angleton could do virtually anything he wanted under the name

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Speaker 1: of protecting America.

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Speaker 3: He was the Chief of Counterintelligence, so he was in

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Speaker 3: charge of defending the CIA. But that position required him

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Speaker 3: enabled him to do anything, and so there was no

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Speaker 3: check on his power whatsoever.

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Speaker 2: That's our old friend. Jefferson Morley, creator of jfkfax dot Org.

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Speaker 2: Morley wrote the book on Angleton called The Ghost. Why

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Speaker 2: do you call the book the Ghost?

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Speaker 3: Because he was this invisible presence in the US government

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Speaker 3: that nobody could see. I mean, I think President Kennedy

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Speaker 3: knew who Jim Angleton was, but not many people in

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Speaker 3: the US government knew what Angleton did.

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Speaker 2: Describe him, he was very.

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Speaker 3: Charismatic, intellectually. He had been an English major at Yale

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Speaker 3: with a literary bent.

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Speaker 1: He was known as the Poet's spy. His friend, the

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Speaker 1: poet E. E. Cummings, said the following about Angleton, quote,

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Speaker 1: what a miracle of momentous complexity is the poet?

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Speaker 3: He was the spy. As intellectual, he was a very

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Speaker 3: creative thinker. People who knew him in his prime were

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Speaker 3: very impressed and regarded him as really something of a genius.

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Speaker 3: Camera intelligence has been described as organized paranoia. To catch spies,

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Speaker 3: you have to be very suspicious of everybody.

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Speaker 1: He referred to his work as the wilderness of mirrors,

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Speaker 1: a phrase that he borrowed from TS. Eliot. There was information, disinformation,

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Speaker 1: secret agents, and double agents, anything to deceive the enemy,

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Speaker 1: hide the CIA's tracks, and create confusion. Confusion was his

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Speaker 1: weapon of choice, and that confusion came into play when

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Speaker 1: Oswald returned to the United States. Oswald, his Soviet wife Marina,

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Speaker 1: and their infant child June. They land on the docks

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Speaker 1: of Hoboken, New Jersey, on June thirteenth, nineteen sixty two.

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Speaker 1: There they're met by a man named spaz Rakin Racn

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Speaker 1: was a representative of the Traveler's Aid Society. Now I

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Speaker 1: want you to take a look at this through the

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Speaker 1: lens of James Angleton. Okay, spas Racan was not only

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Speaker 1: a representative of the Traveler's Aid Society, he was also

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Speaker 1: an official of the Anti Bolshevik Nations, a group with

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Speaker 1: deep ties to US intelligence, a fact that was totally

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Speaker 1: ignored by the Warrant Commission. Now understand that the Traveler's

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Speaker 1: Aid Society wasn't there to massage Oswald's feet after his

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Speaker 1: long trip. It was an anti communist organization that had

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Speaker 1: direct ties to the CIA.

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Speaker 2: Oh, so he's pretty much welcome backed by the CIA.

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Speaker 1: Right and again, if you look at this through Angleton's eyes,

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Speaker 1: Reken is the perfect person to meet Oswald in order

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Speaker 1: to make sure that his re entry into America goes smoothly.

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Speaker 1: Rakean was somebody they could trust and couldn't be tied

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Speaker 1: directly back to them. So Recn helps the Oswalds get

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Speaker 1: through customs and immigration, then sends them on their way

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Speaker 1: to Fort Worth, Texas. In Fort Worth, Oswald meets a

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Speaker 1: man named George de Moorenshield. Now I'm guessing that name

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Speaker 1: doesn't ring any bells.

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Speaker 2: This is the first time you're hearing the name George

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Speaker 2: de Moornshield. He's key when we consider the movements of

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Speaker 2: Lee Harvey Oswald on his return to the United States.

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Speaker 3: George de Moornscheld was a Russian speaker who worked for

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Speaker 3: oil companies looking for petroleum all over the world.

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Speaker 2: That's Jefferson Morley again.

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Speaker 3: And so in nineteen sixty two he was living in

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Speaker 3: Dallas and he heard of this man who had returned

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Speaker 3: from the Soviet Union, Lee Harvey Oswald. So they become

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Speaker 3: good friends.

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Speaker 1: Don't you think it's odd that a wealthy, worldly, aerodype

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Speaker 1: and much older man would become good friends with Lee

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Speaker 1: Harvey Oswald.

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Speaker 2: De Moornshield told the journalist Edward Epstein, quote, somebody gave

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Speaker 2: me Lee's address, and one afternoon I drove to Fort Worth,

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Speaker 2: about thirty miles from Dallas.

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Speaker 4: De Moorinshield told Epstein that a CIA operative J. Walton

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Speaker 4: Moore was the person who gave him the address of

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Speaker 4: Lee Harvey Oswald and suggested that he meet him, that

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Speaker 4: he would be doing the CIA a favor.

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Speaker 2: De Moornshield told Epstein that J. Walton Moore asked him

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Speaker 2: to find out about Oswald's time in the Soviet Union.

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Speaker 1: And for essentially babysitting, Oswald de Moornshield was awarded a

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Speaker 1: mineral contract from the Haitian government for three hundred thousand dollars.

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Speaker 2: De Moornshield told Epstein that he assumed this was because

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Speaker 2: of the help De Moornshield had given to the CIA.

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Speaker 1: When you think of people who work for the CIA,

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Speaker 1: you think of people who work directly with the agency.

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Speaker 1: But it's not that simple. There are also people who are,

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Speaker 1: for lack of a better term, CIA adjacent. They're assets,

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Speaker 1: and these assets will do favors for the CIA, and

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Speaker 1: sometimes they expect favors in return.

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Speaker 2: So that would describe George de Moornshield, Yeah, right.

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Speaker 1: And as part of his babysitting duties, De Moorinshield introduces

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Speaker 1: the Oswalts to a friend of his. This is a

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Speaker 1: woman named Ruth Paine, who was supposedly interested in learning Russian.

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Speaker 2: Hmm, that's convenient. Dick Russell interviewed Ruth Payne in nineteen seventy.

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Speaker 4: The way that you first met the Oswalts was at

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Speaker 4: that party.

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Speaker 5: It was at private party.

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Speaker 4: What was it about the Oswalts that you liked?

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Speaker 5: I was especially interested in Marina who's native in Russian,

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Speaker 5: and I didn't really talk to her much that evening,

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Speaker 5: but I did get the ads and visit it then

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Speaker 5: at their apartment in.

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Speaker 4: Nowas it's important to know who Ruth pain is. Her

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Speaker 4: sister was a CIA operative, although that was hidden and

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Speaker 4: then denied for decades. Her father was employed by the

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Speaker 4: United States Agency for International Development.

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Speaker 2: For decades, there's been suspicion that the US Agency for

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Speaker 2: International Development was a Cold War policy tool created in

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Speaker 2: nineteen sixty one to implement CIA operations around the world.

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Speaker 4: Ruth Payne's husband and other family members had intelligence connections

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Speaker 4: as well. In nineteen sixty seven, when the District Attorney

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Speaker 4: for New Orleans, Jim Garrison, tried a case that questioned

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Speaker 4: the Warren Commission's findings, he tried to get the Pains

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Speaker 4: tax returns and he was told they were classified. Another

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Speaker 4: little tidbit, Ruth's best friend, Mary Bancroft, was Alan Dulles's mistress.

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Speaker 1: Because of her friendship with the Oswalts, Ruth Payne was

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Speaker 1: a key witness for the Warren Commission. In her testimony,

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Speaker 1: she was asked by Alan Dulles what she suspected Oswald's

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Speaker 1: motive might have been. She said that she always felt

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Speaker 1: that Oswald saw himself as a small person and that

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Speaker 1: he wanted to be greater and to be noticed. George

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Speaker 1: de Moornshield also testified to the Warren Commission and left

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Speaker 1: out many of the key details that he would share

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Speaker 1: later on in his life, details that may have caused

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Speaker 1: severe damage to the lone Gunman case that the Warren

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Speaker 1: Commission was trying to build.

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Speaker 4: And during the time of his testimony and I w

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Speaker 4: miss saw De Moorenshield having private lunches with Alan Dulles.

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Speaker 2: It's like Alan Dulles is everywhere.

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Speaker 1: Yes, he was controlling the flow of information in and

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Speaker 1: out of the Warren Commission. So it should come as

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Speaker 1: no surprise that the Warren Report went out of its

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Speaker 1: way to conclude that the Moornshield had no connection to

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Speaker 1: the CIA. But three years later, in nineteen sixty seven,

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Speaker 1: New Orleans District Attorney Jim Garrison interviewed De Moornshield and

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Speaker 1: discovered that not only was he connected to the CIA,

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Speaker 1: he was hired by them to look after Oswald, and

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Speaker 1: after talking with Garrison, De Moornshield started to change his

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Speaker 1: public stance.

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Speaker 3: What's interesting about de Moornschield is that he testified to

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Speaker 3: the Warren Commission and really was influential in depicting Oswald

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Speaker 3: as a man who could have killed President Kennedy. De

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Speaker 3: Morenschild came to regret that later in life, and he

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Speaker 3: believed that he was mistaken and that Oswald did not.

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Speaker 1: Kill the President. Demornschild wrote about that in his book,

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Speaker 1: which was titled Lee Harvey Oswald As I Knew Him.

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Speaker 2: It's one of the first books written by someone who

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Speaker 2: had a personal relationship with Oswald.

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Speaker 1: After the book was published, De Mornshield started talking to

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Speaker 1: the press.

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Speaker 4: I interviewed George de Mornshield twice in nineteen seventy six,

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Speaker 4: and I remember he said, of course, we know it

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Speaker 4: was a vast conspiracy, and his wife tried to shut

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Speaker 4: him up, and then he stood up started walking around

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Speaker 4: the room, saying, it's defiling a corpse. It's defiling a corpse.

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Speaker 4: Oswald had nothing to do with it. It was remarkable

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Speaker 4: to see him like this. He was really upset. He

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Speaker 4: was revealing something huge, and I wasn't the only person.

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Speaker 1: He said that too.

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Speaker 3: He was talking to Edward Epstein, a journalist who had

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Speaker 3: written about the Kennedy assassination.

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Speaker 2: That's Jefferson Morley.

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Speaker 3: Again, de morn Schild said that he was quite certain

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Speaker 3: Oswald did not kill the president and that he was

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Speaker 3: indeed what he said, he was a patsy.

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Speaker 1: He also said, quote, I would never have contacted Oswald

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Speaker 1: in a million years if Moore had not sanctioned it.

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Speaker 2: That's j Walton Moore, his CIA contact.

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Speaker 1: Right. He said he wouldn't have reached out to befriend

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Speaker 1: Oswald unless he was instructed to. Epstein's interview with demorn

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Speaker 1: Shield happened fourteen years after Kennedy's assassination, and it was

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Speaker 1: the final interview that demorn Shield would ever give.

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Speaker 2: So let's set the stage because with all of these

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Speaker 2: moving parts, it gets very confusing.

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Speaker 1: Okay. So the first few months of nineteen sixty three

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Speaker 1: are very tough for Oswald.

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Speaker 3: So he returns from the Soviet Union, he gets job,

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Speaker 3: he loses a job, having trouble with his wife, and

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Speaker 3: in April nineteen sixty three, he leaves Dallas and he

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Speaker 3: decides to go to New Orleans, where he had grown up.

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Speaker 1: In New Orleans, he gets a job at a place

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Speaker 1: called the Riley Coffee Company.

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Speaker 4: Which is owned by William Riley, a supporter of CIA

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Speaker 4: efforts against Castro. Documents show us that Riley had a

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Speaker 4: relationship with the CIA for years.

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Speaker 1: So we're seeing the same pattern, the same kind of

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Speaker 1: thing we saw with Demor and Shield. In Dallas. Oswald

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Speaker 1: is secretly introduced to another CIA connected guy whose Riley

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Speaker 1: Coffee company is located right next to the local FBI, CIA, Naval, Intelligence,

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Speaker 1: and Secret Service offices. And it's here in New Orleans

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Speaker 1: where Oswald is about to get sheep dipped.

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Speaker 2: Sheep DiPT What does that mean?

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Speaker 1: Sheep DiPT is a term of art in the intelligence

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Speaker 1: world that means coding someone to give them CIA operative status.

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Speaker 1: It's a tactic of deception. It gives the appearance that

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Speaker 1: a person is some one other than who he really is.

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Speaker 2: So how would that even work?

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Speaker 1: By using assets of the agency to build a narrative

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Speaker 1: around that person, you're carefully led into a new identity

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Speaker 1: and it's all documented. You yourself, may not know where

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Speaker 1: this new identity will lead, but when it's finished, you'll

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Speaker 1: have the bona fides of someone to appear completely legitimate.

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Speaker 1: And the plan for Oswald in New Orleans was to

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Speaker 1: sheep dip him in order to make him look like

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Speaker 1: he was a pro Castro communist.

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Speaker 2: Couldn't he just be a pro Castro communist.

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Speaker 1: If you think that the poet spy has succeeded.

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Speaker 2: The poet spy. If you'll remember, is James Jesus Angleton,

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Speaker 2: head of CIA Counterintelligence, and the Wilderness of Mirrors were in.

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Speaker 2: It's the world he created.

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Speaker 1: We know. Angleton's tactics employ CIA adjacent people, asset s

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Speaker 1: that have enough distance from the agency that they can

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Speaker 1: deny knowing them. Then send these people to look after

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Speaker 1: someone the agency is interested in, pick them up at

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Speaker 1: the airport, help them get a job, to manipulate this

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Speaker 1: person they're interested in without being traced back to what end.

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Speaker 1: Angleton was obsessed with Cuba. He wanted to take down Castro,

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Speaker 1: and this was not in line with the president's agenda.

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Speaker 2: After the Cuban missile crisis, if you remember, Kennedy realized

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Speaker 2: taking a hard line against Cuba could lead to an

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Speaker 2: all out nuclear war, so he started back channel communications

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Speaker 2: with Khrushchev and Castro to find a packed peace.

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Speaker 4: But Angleton didn't see that as an obstacle. He said,

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Speaker 4: and I am quoting here, it is inconceivable that a

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Speaker 4: secret intelligence arm of the government has to comply with

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Speaker 4: all the overt orders of the government. He thought it

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Speaker 4: completely fair game that the CIA, the secret intelligence armor

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Speaker 4: of them the United States, could have their own set

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Speaker 4: of rules and directives.

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Speaker 1: So, while Kennedy was trying to forge a path to peace,

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Speaker 1: the CIA was conducting major anti Castro operations out of

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Speaker 1: New Orleans and Miami. They sent boats to harassed Cuban ships.

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Speaker 1: They ran guns to exile groups. They even had training

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Speaker 1: camps where they were helping the exiles prepare to mount

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Speaker 1: another invasion. Bill Harvey, the CIA agent who had been

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Speaker 1: demoted and sent to Rome after the Cuban missile crisis,

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Speaker 1: played a big part in all of this.

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Speaker 4: Bill Harvey created and led something called ZR Rifle. This

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Speaker 4: was a CIA program designed to assassinate foreign leaders.

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Speaker 2: It wouldn't be until the nineteen eighties that we learned

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Speaker 2: how the CIA had a hand in overthrowing governments in

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Speaker 2: the nineteen fifties and sixties, including Iran, Chile, the Dominican Republic, Guatemala,

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Speaker 2: the Congo. This often inclined gluted the assassination of the

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Speaker 2: leader in charge. This is some of the dirty laundry

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Speaker 2: we mentioned earlier.

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Speaker 1: The CIA wanted to use that same force in an

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Speaker 1: attempt to assassinate Fidel Castro, and Bill Harvey was at

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Speaker 1: the head of it. To understand Harvey's stance toward Cuba,

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Speaker 1: read a segment of this seventeen page memo that he

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Speaker 1: sent to Dick Helms, who was running covert operations for

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Speaker 1: the CIA at the time.

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Speaker 2: It goes quote the assurance of no invasion and no

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Speaker 2: support of invasion will in effect constitute giving Castro and

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Speaker 2: his regime a certain degree of sanctuary.

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Speaker 1: His belief was that every day that passed that we

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Speaker 1: didn't try to invade Cuba would make Castro grow stronger. Essentially,

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Speaker 1: he's saying, if you're not trying to kill him, you're

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Speaker 1: emboldening him. And in many people's minds, the one emboldening

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Speaker 1: him the most was President Kennedy.

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Speaker 2: A declassified document reveals that Bill Harvey sent his memo

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Speaker 2: to the head of the CIA in November nineteen sixty two.

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Speaker 4: Six months later, in May of nineteen sixty three, Angleton

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Speaker 4: published a twenty seven page paper of his own on

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Speaker 4: the topic of Cuba.

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Speaker 2: This was just about seven months before the assassination of

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Speaker 2: President Kennedy and within weeks of Oswald's decision to move

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Speaker 2: to New Orleans.

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Speaker 4: Engleton's paper was called Cuban Control and Action Capabilities. And

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Speaker 4: it's important to understand who received this paper. The Pentagon,

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Speaker 4: the CIA, the NSSA, the intelligence chiefs of the State Department, Army, Navy,

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Speaker 4: and Air Force, and the Justice Department.

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Speaker 1: And guess who didn't receive this paper.

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Speaker 2: The President Bingo.

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Speaker 4: Angleton didn't send it to the White House, to his

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Speaker 4: National Security Council, or to the president's brother, Attorney General

379
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Speaker 4: Robert Kennedy. And there's one thing that becomes particularly interesting

380
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Speaker 4: in hindsight.

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Speaker 3: The fair Play for Cuba Committee, The fair Play for

382
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Speaker 3: Cuba Committee is.

383
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Speaker 1: The fair Play for Cuban Committee.

384
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Speaker 2: If you're taking notes, put a big red circle around

385
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Speaker 2: the fair Play for Cuba Committee.

386
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Speaker 1: The fair Play for Cuba Committee was a real organization.

387
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Speaker 1: They had chapters around the country with hundreds of members.

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Speaker 1: Their goal was to provide grassroots support for Cuba in America.

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Speaker 4: In Angleton's eyes, members of the fair Play for Cuba

390
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Speaker 4: Committee were pro castro agents in the United States. This

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Speaker 4: is exactly what Angleton spent his career trying to protect

392
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Speaker 4: America against and so in order to better understand the

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Speaker 4: organization and hopefully stop them, he needed information, and Oswald.

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Speaker 1: Was about to be sent right into the thick of it.

395
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Speaker 1: Oswald arrived in New Orleans at almost the exact time

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Speaker 1: that Angleton sent out his Cuban paper. And one of

397
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Speaker 1: the first things that Oswald does is form a local

398
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Speaker 1: chapter of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. And guess

399
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Speaker 1: how many members there were in this chapter one hundred

400
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Speaker 1: You're close one just one, just Oswald, nobody else.

401
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Speaker 6: Oswald's behavior with the Fair Play for Cuba Committee is

402
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 6: kind of strange. In his time in New Orleans, he

403
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 6: doesn't spend any time with people who support Gastro.

404
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,640
Speaker 1: This is Oswald being sheep dipped. A narrative is being

405
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Speaker 1: created around him.

406
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Speaker 2: And what does Oswald know at this point?

407
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Speaker 1: Probably very little. I mean, he knows he's connected to

408
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Speaker 1: an intelligence community for some purpose. But I would bet

409
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Speaker 1: anything that if Lee Harvey Oswald were alive today and

410
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Speaker 1: you asked him that at that moment, what did he

411
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Speaker 1: think he was part of? I don't think he would

412
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Speaker 1: even know.

413
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Speaker 4: After he started his chapter of the Fair Play for

414
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 4: Cuba Committee, Oswald visited a man named Carlos spring Gear,

415
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 4: who ran an anti Castro group called the Cuban Student Directorate.

416
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:03,120
Speaker 4: Memos have served the show this group was organized and

417
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Speaker 4: funded by the CIA.

418
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Speaker 2: What did Oswald want with him?

419
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 4: Oswald told Carlos Springier that he was an ex marine

420
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Speaker 4: who despised communism and was willing to help train Cuban exiles.

421
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Speaker 2: So wait a minute, Oswald is starting the pro Castro

422
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 2: fair Play for Cuba Committee and at the same time

423
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:30,399
Speaker 2: he's offering help in training anti Castro exiles. Didn't you

424
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 2: say the New Orleans branch of the fair Play for

425
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,200
Speaker 2: Cuba Committee was funded by the CIA?

426
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 1: I did, But remember, so was Carlos Bringier's student group.

427
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Speaker 1: And his group was not only funded by the CIA,

428
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 1: it was run by George Joanedes. Remember him. Joann Edes

429
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 1: was the former CIA agent who sabotaged the investigation led

430
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Speaker 1: by the House Select Committee on Assassinations.

431
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Speaker 4: After meeting with Brgier, Oswald goes to a very anti

432
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Speaker 4: Castro area of New Orleans and starts handing out leaflets

433
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Speaker 4: for the fair Play for Cuba Committee.

434
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Speaker 1: There are photos of this. In some of those photos

435
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 1: you can actually see a known CIA operative in the background.

436
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 1: Here's a guy who's standing on a street corner in

437
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,159
Speaker 1: New Orleans handing out leaflets for the fair Play for

438
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Speaker 1: Cuba Committee, And who's filming that? And why is that

439
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 1: even being filmed. If you want the public to know

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00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 1: something about something, you have to create some kind of

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00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 1: event that would make news. So while handing out these

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00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 1: pro Castro leaflets.

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00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,719
Speaker 3: Four members of the Cuban Student Director confronted him, grabbed

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00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 3: his pamphlets, threw him in the air, started shouting at him,

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00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 3: and was about to be a fight, and two cops

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00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 3: came in and arrested them all.

447
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: The local radio station WDSU jumped all over it.

448
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 2: The reporter, a guy named William Kurt Stuckey from WDSU,

449
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 2: named the fair Play for Cuba Committee in his report

450
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 2: and named Lee Harvey Oswald. So what would be the

451
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:03,120
Speaker 2: implication of that.

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00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,239
Speaker 1: They're staging this? How else would the public know that

453
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 1: Oswald was pro castro unless it was picked up by

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00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 1: the press. It had to be documented.

455
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 4: Oswald was getting sheep dipped as a pro Castro agent,

456
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,440
Speaker 4: and at the same time, the fair Play for Cuba

457
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 4: Committee was being made to look weak.

458
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 6: Oswald and the Cubans are all arrested, they're taken into

459
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 6: the police station. Oswald the first thing he does is

460
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,120
Speaker 6: ask for an FBI age. Why would a leftist supporter

461
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,680
Speaker 6: of Fidel Castro ask to see an FBI.

462
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 1: Agent Because it was all theater and Oswald was in

463
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 1: the lead role.

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00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 2: To this day, the CIA denies their connection to Oswald

465
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 2: despite everything we know, some of which we've covered so

466
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 2: far in this series. They claim to have had very

467
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 2: minimal awareness of Oswald and no direct connection. In June

468
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, Peter Baker of The New York Times

469
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:03,239
Speaker 2: published a story revealing new details about the CIA and

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00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 2: their relationship with Oswald. The story covered a CIA memo

471
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 2: from June of nineteen sixty two that summarized the contents

472
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 2: of a letter between Lee Harvey Oswald and his mother.

473
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 1: This letter was intercepted and read by the CIA when

474
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 1: it was originally sent. So right there we have another

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00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 1: piece of documentation of the fact that the CIA was

476
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 1: fully aware and tracking Lee Harvey Oswald.

477
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 2: Now, apparently the existence of this CIA memo wasn't news

478
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 2: assassination researchers have known that this memo existed for decades.

479
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 2: The news that the New York Times was breaking in

480
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 2: their story was about the author of this memo, which

481
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 2: strikes me as odd that it was more important to

482
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 2: the CIA to hide the identity of the person who

483
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 2: wrote the memo than the existence of the memo itself.

484
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 2: But now that we have a basic understanding of the

485
00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 2: wilderness of mirrors and the fact that thing in this

486
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 2: world are often not what they seem, I wanted to

487
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 2: talk to someone that could help me understand what the

488
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 2: CIA was up to and the significance of the name

489
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 2: that The Times uncovered. So we asked Jefferson Morley to

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00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 2: join us once again. So, jeff who was the CIA

491
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 2: agent who was reading Oswald's mail and who was he

492
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 2: sending these summaries to?

493
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 3: Ruben e.

494
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 6: Fhron was a CIA analyst and translator. He's worked for

495
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 6: the CIA for since nineteen fifty five. He was in

496
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 6: charge of reading the mail of people who were picked

497
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 6: by James Angleton. So Angleton had a list of about

498
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 6: two hundred people whose mail he opened, copied, filed, and

499
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 6: Oswald was one of those people, starting from the week

500
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 6: he went to the Soviet Union in nineteen fifty nine.

501
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 2: So it was known that mister Efron's role was to

502
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 2: surveil the mail of people that Angleton had on this

503
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 2: select list. What is about this memo that stands out?

504
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 6: The time story showed that not only was the CIA

505
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 6: reading Oswald's mail while he was in the Soviet Union.

506
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 6: When Oswald comes home, Ephron writes a memo which he

507
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 6: sends to his boss, which says, missus editor in CI

508
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 6: SIG will be interested.

509
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 2: CI SIG is the Counterintelligence Special Investigations Group.

510
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 4: CI SIG was so secret that almost nobody in the

511
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 4: CIA other than Dulles Angleton and the people that worked

512
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 4: in SIGG knew it even existed.

513
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 6: The fact that Oswald's file is controlled at that highest

514
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 6: level of the CIA is extremely noteworthy. So what the

515
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 6: time story shows is that not only were they reading

516
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 6: his mail, but after he returned to the United States,

517
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 6: they were paying close attention to.

518
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 2: Him, and that they would be the poet's spy.

519
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 1: Angleton knew all about Oswald, and if you start to

520
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: connect the dots, when Angleton needed someone in nineteen sixty

521
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 1: three to play a role in his efforts to take

522
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 1: down Castro, he taps someone he knows, Lee Harvey Oswald.

523
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 2: Next episode on Who Killed JFK, we meet Richard K.

524
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 2: S Nakel, also known as the Man who Knew too Much.

525
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: By sure accident.

526
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 7: He's struggled on the fact that there was an assassination here.

527
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 7: Good plan, and then it is preliminary hearing and he says, well,

528
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 7: I'm glad you caught me. He says, I really don't

529
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 7: want to be in Dallas, and I says, well, what

530
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 7: do you mean by that?

531
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 1: And he says, you'll want to know.

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00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 2: Who killed JFK is hosted by Rob Reiner and me

533
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 2: solid At O'Brien and Our executive producers are Rob Reiner,

534
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 2: Michelle Reiner, Matt George, Jason English, David Hoffman, and me

535
00:32:56,000 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 2: Soldad O'Brien. Our writer is David Hoffman, with research by

536
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 2: Dick Russell. Our story editors are Rob Reiner and Julie Pignero.

537
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 2: Our senior producer is Julie Pinneo. Our producers are Tristan Nash,

538
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 2: Dick Russell, Michelle Goldfein, and Amari Lee. Our editors are

539
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 2: Tristan Nash, Julie Pigneto, and Marcus de Lauro. Our project

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00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 2: manager is Carol Klein. Archival audio in this episode thanks

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00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 2: to Dick Russell. Our Associate producer is emilse Kiros. Mixing,

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00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 2: mastering and sound design by Ben La Julie. Music by APM,

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00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 2: Research and fact checking by Girl Friday and emilse Kiros.

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00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 2: Business affairs by him Nan Nadea and Jonathan Furman. Consulting

545
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 2: producer is Razanne Galliini. Recorded in part at CDM Studio

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00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 2: and Fourth Street Recording Studio. Show logo by Lucy Kintanilla.

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00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 2: Production assistants by Rocco Del Prior and Grace Baron. Special

548
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 2: thanks to Johonenig Rose Arsay and Dan Storper. If you're

549
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 2: enjoying the show, leave us a rating and review on

550
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Speaker 2: your favorite podcast platform. Who Killed JFK as a production

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00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:24,399
Speaker 2: of Solidad O'Brien Productions and iHeart Podcasts