1 00:00:01,520 --> 00:00:04,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shonda land Audio 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: in partnership with I Heart Radio. You guys, today is 3 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:20,600 Speaker 1: a big day. I'm a super fan of this man, Albarnachio. 4 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:23,319 Speaker 1: He has over twenty five years of experience as a 5 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: human sexuality educator and consultant. He has done TED talks, 6 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: he has published articles, he has appeared on national programs, 7 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: and he's even written a book titled for Goodness, sex 8 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: Changing the Way we talked to young people about sexuality, 9 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: values and health. I first heard his genius on Katie 10 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:42,879 Speaker 1: Corex podcast and I was like, I gotta get this 11 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: guy on Katie's Crib because I have no idea how 12 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:49,560 Speaker 1: to talk to my child about sex. Um, and you 13 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: are really good at talking kids and people about sex. 14 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: Welcome to Katie's Crib. Al Bernacchio, thank you so much. 15 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: I'm told really excited to be here. I feel like 16 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: this time has been really interesting because, um, We've done 17 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: a lot of episodes on Katie's Crib this season about 18 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: talking to our kids about race, and a few times 19 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 1: during those episodes, I've said, you know, it's crazy, my 20 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:15,839 Speaker 1: parents didn't talk to me about race. My parents didn't 21 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,199 Speaker 1: talk to me about sex and this is not good. 22 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 1: This is a problem. And I feel very lucky that 23 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 1: I use Katie's Crib as a platform to teach listeners 24 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: how we can do a better job and practice these 25 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 1: language skills that it requires to start talking to our 26 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: children about things that maybe weren't discussed in our household, 27 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: or maybe they were discussed in a poor, shameful, um 28 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:44,120 Speaker 1: not loving fashion. Can you first tell me what's the 29 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: distinction between sex and sexuality? Oh? Sure, that's a great 30 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: question to start with. UM. A lot of times when 31 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: people think about sex, they either automatically think about sexual 32 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: activity to sort of what parts you have and what 33 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: you do with them, or they think about gender and 34 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: sort of who you who you are inside your skin. Um, 35 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: But sexuality is much bigger than that. Sexuality involves all 36 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: the parts of our body, including our sexual parts, but 37 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: it includes also our emotional capabilities, our relationship capabilities, you know, body, heart, mind, 38 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: and spirit. If that's part of your belief system. Every 39 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 1: minute of the day, we're sexual. People were not sexually active. 40 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 1: But our sexuality is not something we can ever divorce 41 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: ourselves from or or put aside or leave at home. 42 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 1: When we go out to school or to work. Um, 43 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 1: to be human is to be sexual, and to be 44 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:48,359 Speaker 1: sexual is to be human and so but unless we 45 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 1: have that kind of integrated view, it is really hard 46 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:55,359 Speaker 1: to talk about with anybody because you're left thinking that 47 00:02:55,400 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: you're gonna be talking about really intimate personal, specifically sexual 48 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 1: activity kind of things, and people get freaked out about that. 49 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 1: I totally understand that, right. So you work mostly with 50 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: high school students, correct, I do. I'm My title is 51 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 1: on the nursery through twelfth grade Sexuality Education Coordinator at 52 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: my school, So I'm in charge of doing sex said 53 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: for everybody, from our youngest students who are three years 54 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: old up to our oldest students who are eighteen years old. 55 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 1: But I do spend most of my time working with 56 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: the high school students. But you know, on the person 57 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: my ship right now. Hold on a second. Is this 58 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: a title that exists in schools now? Because I don't 59 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: think it existed when I went to school. No, it 60 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: exists in my school because I'm there. It was an 61 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: interesting confluence when when I went to my school. When 62 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: I was hired twenty three years ago, I was actually 63 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 1: hired as a full time English teacher because that's another 64 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: thing that I do. UM. But I came to the 65 00:03:55,680 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: school having already gotten a master's degree in human sexuality education, 66 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: and I asked my school if they thought I might 67 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: be able to use that degree in the service of 68 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: our students, and so I sort of looked around the 69 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: school and did some needs assessments, and very slowly I've 70 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:17,600 Speaker 1: been there twenty three years, and that title only became 71 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:21,599 Speaker 1: really official in the last few years. But I've been 72 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 1: slowly building and doing sexuality education um, starting in the 73 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:27,919 Speaker 1: high school and then moving to the middle school and 74 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:31,359 Speaker 1: moving to the lower school, all through that time, step 75 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: by step, you know, program by program, UM. And there 76 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 1: are some schools that have people like me in it, 77 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: not a whole lot, But unfortunately, in many schools, you know, 78 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 1: sexuality education is left to either science teachers, or health 79 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: and pe teachers or religion teachers, all of whom are 80 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:55,599 Speaker 1: lovely people and who I'm sure love kids as much 81 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 1: in the same ways as I do. But they're not 82 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 1: trained to do this work. And I'm specific we trained 83 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: to do it. And we're talking about like sex education 84 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: versus what you just defined is the difference between sex, 85 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 1: which yes, we all need to learn the mechanics of 86 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 1: the whole thing. But sexuality is such a huge, huge 87 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: topic for hormonal teenagers. But also starting now, I mean 88 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:22,160 Speaker 1: with my three year old. When you say that you've 89 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:24,720 Speaker 1: talked to three year olds about it, like, what am 90 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 1: I supposed to be doing? I mean, I would like 91 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: myself and our listeners to who a lot of them 92 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:38,839 Speaker 1: have little ones to do our part in raising little 93 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:43,600 Speaker 1: people who are um woke when it comes to consent 94 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:47,720 Speaker 1: and respectful of other people's bodies and things like that. 95 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:51,599 Speaker 1: And I don't even like know where to start. Yeah, 96 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:56,600 Speaker 1: of course, you know, nobody who becomes a parent suddenly 97 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: gets imbewed with the the information or the skills to 98 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 1: do this. It's and that's part of why I also 99 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:07,279 Speaker 1: work a lot with parents, because parents need help and 100 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,600 Speaker 1: I totally get that. Um So, for little ones, I'm 101 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 1: going to take a cue from a guy named Danny Horne, 102 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:14,599 Speaker 1: who is a sex educator that I've known for a 103 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 1: long time, and he says, with little ones, you focus 104 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 1: on three f's family, fairness and kind of fairy tale love. 105 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: So for for a little three year olds, when I 106 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: go into the kindergarten in the pre k in my school, 107 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:33,919 Speaker 1: I bring story books that talk about diverse kinds of families, 108 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,600 Speaker 1: that everybody's family is different, and everybody's family is about love, 109 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 1: about fairness, that nobody should be treated differently just because 110 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: they're a boy or a girl, or their transgender or 111 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: their cis gender, or they have two mommies or they 112 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: have two daddies, skin color, or a different ethnicity exactly exactly. 113 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:57,039 Speaker 1: And then the third one about sort of the Disney 114 00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: fairy tale love, is that everybody deserves to love and 115 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: be loved, and that that's all kinds of love. Everybody, 116 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: you know, someday if they want, gets to have a sweetheart, 117 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:08,719 Speaker 1: and that sweetheart can be a boy or a girl 118 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: or anybody that somebody loves. Everybody is worthy of love 119 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: from their family, from their friends, and someday from their sweethearts. 120 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: So families, fairness and fairy tale love is a great 121 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: place to center when you're working with with little ones. 122 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 1: And that's the kind of work that I do. And 123 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: of course, you know, now we do need to talk 124 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: about things like consent. There are some great um books 125 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 1: out now, even little board books for teeny ones about 126 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 1: consent um. You know, it's a little bit different than 127 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 1: the good touch bad touch. That's also information we always 128 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: have to do. But consent is more about body positivity 129 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 1: and a sense of ownership and a sense of developing 130 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 1: the beginnings of agency, about who gets to interact with 131 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: your body. Um, and those are things we can do 132 00:07:57,600 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: with little kids, not in a sophisticated way, but in 133 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: a some away. I definitely have moments now where I'm 134 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: trying to practice, like, you know, one of his little friends, Um, 135 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: you know, he'll just go up to her or him 136 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 1: and you know, really like aggressively squeeze the ship out 137 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: of that person, right like he's so excited to see 138 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: that person. And I just try to intervene and say, hey, 139 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: let's take a step back and let's ask can I 140 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: hug you? Would you like to get hugged or something 141 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 1: like that, you know, And then and then I say, 142 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: he'll ask, and sometimes that kid says okay, and I'll 143 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 1: be will give a hug, And sometimes that kid says no, 144 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: and then Alby does it anyway, and then I have 145 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 1: to say up, up, up. You know, they said no, 146 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: which means they don't want to receive a hug right now, 147 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 1: Like is that the sort of bait, like we can start. 148 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: There's an amazing lesson and that's a perfect way to 149 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 1: do it. It's exhausting. My kid is like like the 150 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 1: King of like, oh, let me just invade your personal space. 151 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 1: I'm just like, well, I mean, all little kids are 152 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: little kids. You know. Little kids are about about love 153 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: and connection and belonging and they just and so teaching 154 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 1: them that it's really important to ask people if they 155 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: want to hug, or if they want to play or 156 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 1: you know, if they want to high five or a 157 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: fist bump. And practicing that with them is an amazingly 158 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 1: important skill to start. And then you know, we sort 159 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: of transfer those skills as kids grow to more complex 160 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:17,719 Speaker 1: situations about this fairy tale love? What do we do 161 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 1: about fairy tales that are you know what I'm gonna ask, boy, girl, 162 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:26,439 Speaker 1: you know the same thing all the time. I'm sure 163 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: that we are hopefully getting better here that there are 164 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 1: board books that exist where people are falling in love 165 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: that aren't a blonde girl with like a small stomach 166 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: and boobs and some yeah, absolutely, and there there are 167 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 1: plenty of beautiful books that are written today for little 168 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: kids that have all kinds of relationships and all kinds 169 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: of love depicted, so it's not that hard to find 170 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 1: them if you if you look for them. Um. But 171 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 1: I think what's really important, A really simple thing, for example, 172 00:09:57,440 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: is when we're talking to little kids, I very de 173 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: liberately use the word sweetheart instead of boyfriend or girlfriend, 174 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: because I want to model that those aren't the only 175 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 1: two asticating right on that anticipating or expecting that their 176 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: sweetheart is going to be any particular gender or have 177 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:18,320 Speaker 1: any particular body. So um, and then I like to 178 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 1: point out, so you know, Uncle Dave and Uncle Joe 179 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:24,679 Speaker 1: are sweethearts, and mommy and Daddy are sweethearts, and you know, 180 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:27,719 Speaker 1: and and that way they begin to understand that term 181 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: and the multiple ways that term can be applied. Um. 182 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: So even the very choice of our language is key 183 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: when talking with little kids, because we're modeling the kind 184 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: of inclusivity and the kind of of openness that we're 185 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: hoping to develop. You developed an alternative approach to sex 186 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:49,680 Speaker 1: education Before we get into that, can you share? I 187 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 1: thought this was fascinating in your TED talk that there 188 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: are two sex said models that listeners may be familiar 189 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 1: with but haven't analyzed. There's the disaster prevention model and 190 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: the porn model, right, can you explain those two things? Sure? 191 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 1: So the disaster model is the way a lot of people, um, 192 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: in my generation I'm fifty six, grew up, which is 193 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: hearing messages like, um, sex is a beautiful thing, but 194 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: if you do it wrong, gonna kill you. And um, 195 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 1: you know, sex is perfect when it's with the one 196 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 1: you love in a beautiful married relationship, but anything else 197 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 1: is going to leave you with like wards and scales 198 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 1: and horrible diseases. Um. And it was a lot about 199 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 1: fear and a lot about we can't tell kids the 200 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 1: joyful parts about healthy sexuality because that's going to lead 201 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: them to do things are not ready for. So we 202 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 1: make this disaster model that tries to scare kids and 203 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 1: they're not having sex. And of course that never worked. 204 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 1: All it did was make us doubt adults were telling 205 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: us the truth about anything. Um. But a lot of 206 00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 1: us grew up with that model, and it it's in 207 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:03,559 Speaker 1: City as Lee sort of inserted itself into a lot 208 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 1: of our media, a lot of our education, a lot 209 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: of our parenting. So we have to be on the 210 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 1: lookout for that, you know, when are we conveying negative 211 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:16,719 Speaker 1: messages out of fear. Um, if we're doing that, we're 212 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:21,680 Speaker 1: following the disaster model. The porn model has always been there, 213 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: but really has come to light obviously with the advent 214 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 1: of the digital world and the Internet and the easy 215 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 1: accessibility of pornography and sexually explicit material. And the porn 216 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 1: model says that kind of no matter what you're doing, 217 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 1: it's somehow going to lead to sex, which I don't 218 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 1: know about your life. My life. Every porn is like, oh, 219 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 1: we're in a desk office situation. Oh, whoopsie, dipsy, I 220 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 1: have to change my tire. Up here we go, we're 221 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: cleaning out the refrigerator. What else we got? It's like 222 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 1: up and now we're yep. And then the other thing 223 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: the porn model says, which I think is even more damaging, 224 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: is that the sex that people have have isn't integrated 225 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: or connected to the rest of their lives in any 226 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 1: meaningful way. So, like, you know, as an English teacher, 227 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: I can say that most of the sexually explicit stories 228 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 1: I've seen are not big on plot. You know, there's 229 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: not a lot of like character development, and uh, I 230 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 1: don't know who these people are. I don't know the 231 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:23,319 Speaker 1: kind of lives they have, I don't know what their 232 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,560 Speaker 1: interests are. And and for healthy sexuality, we have to 233 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: integrate our sexual lives into the fabric of the rest 234 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 1: of our lives. So my high school kids, I often 235 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: ask them this question. I say, well, so, if you've 236 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: ever seen material like that, did you ever wonder what 237 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 1: the people in those movies are doing? Twenty minutes after 238 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 1: the camera turned off? They don't write, you know, do 239 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: these people grocery shop? Do they have kids? Do they 240 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: go to church? Do they have parents? I mean, the 241 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 1: answer to that is some of that's true for most 242 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:00,560 Speaker 1: of those people. But porn doesn't show us that focuses 243 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 1: our lives solely on the sexually active part of our lives, 244 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: and it isolates that part, and it also sort of 245 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 1: fetishizes and fantasizes those parts because you're seeing bodies that 246 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:18,679 Speaker 1: don't look like typical bodies, and you're seeing sex that 247 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: isn't like the sex that most people I know have. 248 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: I mean, I always tell my high school kids that 249 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: you know, there there is nothing more fumbly and funny 250 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: and awkward than being sexual with somebody, and that that's 251 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: that's part of the magic of it. You know, it 252 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 1: doesn't ever work like it is on TV and in 253 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: the movies because that's staged and constructed. Oh I know, 254 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: it's the worst. Let me tell you, it's awkward for 255 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 1: us to when we do sex scenes. It's like, oh 256 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 1: my god, I have to like literally make out with 257 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: someone in front of a hundred and fifty people that 258 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 1: I've never made out with before, and I'm well aware 259 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: that it's not going to look great. It's going to 260 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 1: be weird. We have to have conversations. Thank god, there's 261 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 1: intimacy coordinators now, but like conversations about like are you 262 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 1: cool with tongue? Are you not? Like are we making sound? 263 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 1: Are we not? Because I don't want to be lift 264 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 1: out to dry out there. I mean, it is so awkward. 265 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: But that's just a side note for any of you 266 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 1: actors listening who feel me. But I heard correct me 267 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: if I'm wrong. At the average age now for kids 268 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: to see porn, and a lot of times violent porn, 269 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 1: like is eleven? Is that true? That's true. That's that's 270 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 1: the average. Some kids are seeing it younger than that, 271 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 1: some kids older. But you know, by the age of eleven, 272 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 1: we can assume that most kids have seen some example 273 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: of often violently sexually explicit materially and it's not ques 274 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 1: there looking for it. It's caused their online and they 275 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: fumble into it, or they friend picked it up and 276 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 1: everybody they misspell things into a search engine, all kinds 277 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: of ways. Absolutely. I can remember in my age, I 278 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 1: had like one the first computers. Um, My girlfriend came 279 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 1: over and we googled. This is how far we've come. Guys. 280 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: We googled Michelangelo's David and zeroed in on on the 281 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 1: penis and like that was crazy. Do you know what 282 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: I mean? It's like, we have come so far? How 283 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: are we supposed to prepare our kids for that inevitable? 284 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: Like anyone listening who's like, that's not going to be 285 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 1: my kid, You're crazy. Let's just accept your kids going 286 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 1: to see some crazy, freaky ass porn around the age 287 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 1: of eleven. What do we do if an amazing Albarnakio 288 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 1: is not in our school? So the first thing you 289 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 1: have to think about is what kind of conversations have 290 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 1: I been having with my kids about just general media, 291 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: about what they see on TV, about what they what 292 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 1: they see in cartoons? Um, are we talking about the 293 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 1: way gender is portrayed. Are we talking about real versus fake? 294 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 1: Are we talking about how what we're watching is often 295 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:17,359 Speaker 1: constructed and really different from the way it happens in 296 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:21,959 Speaker 1: real life. If we started those conversations, the porn conversation 297 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: is just an extension of that. It's just saying this 298 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 1: is material that sort of goes in many ways to 299 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: the extreme, with the um fake versus real stuff that 300 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: it looks like. I mean, yes, these are real naked 301 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:41,119 Speaker 1: people and they're really kissing or they're really doing sexual things, 302 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:44,439 Speaker 1: but there are camera people, and there are scripts, and 303 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 1: there's lighting and there's a whole bunch of things that 304 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:51,200 Speaker 1: are creating it to look like it's natural when it's 305 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 1: really not. Here's the difference of what it looks like 306 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: when it's sort of natural. And I don't mean showing 307 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 1: kids that, I mean talking about those differences. You know, 308 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 1: I say that, um, thinking that you can learn how 309 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 1: to have sex from watching porn is like thinking you 310 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 1: can learn how to drive by watching The Fast and 311 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 1: the Furious. Totally, that's a great analogy. So a really 312 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 1: simple language like that can help. And I also think 313 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:18,880 Speaker 1: it's really important that we and this is really hard, 314 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: so we sort of summon our courage and we sort 315 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 1: of lean into this. UM. We don't want to shame 316 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: kids for being curious, because a lot of kids, especially 317 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:32,360 Speaker 1: younger kids who are looking at porn, are really curious 318 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:37,399 Speaker 1: about bodies and about sex and about relationships. And so 319 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 1: we also need material that we can offer to kids. 320 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:46,879 Speaker 1: So websites like sex etcetera, or amazed dot org or 321 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 1: if they're a little older, Scarlet Team. There are plenty 322 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 1: of really good websites out there that are designed for 323 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 1: young people that give clear information about this. I mean, 324 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 1: one of my favorites these days is amazed dot org. 325 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:06,160 Speaker 1: There are these tiny um animated videos there are three, 326 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 1: four or five minutes long about everything from consent to pornography, 327 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:16,680 Speaker 1: to periods, two bodies to your first kiss. And they're 328 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:21,479 Speaker 1: amazing and beautiful and so carefully done. UM. And so 329 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 1: to say, look, if you're curious about something, I want 330 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,439 Speaker 1: to actually help you find out what you want to know. 331 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:29,879 Speaker 1: This is not the best way to learn about that. 332 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 1: Let's try this. UM Now. I know that a lot 333 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:37,440 Speaker 1: of parents may feel discomfort around that, you know, and 334 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 1: I think the key is really being able to find 335 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 1: websites and books for all different ages that that people 336 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:46,879 Speaker 1: can look to. And I think it's really just a 337 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:50,199 Speaker 1: matter of not if you're going to have that conversation, 338 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:52,879 Speaker 1: but when and how have you been leading up to 339 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 1: that conversation in what you're doing. You have to really 340 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: make it an add on to what you're doing. It 341 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,440 Speaker 1: can't just be a whole new conversation. It's gotta have 342 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: It's like all these little building blocks that have been 343 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 1: placed along the way, and you might feel embarrassed, but 344 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:10,879 Speaker 1: you have to put that aside and say something like, hey, dude, 345 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 1: like I I really want to talk to you about 346 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: this stuff. I'm going to go think about it for 347 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:16,639 Speaker 1: a minute and come back to you, you know, tonight 348 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 1: or tomorrow. We can talk about this, you know. But 349 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:21,720 Speaker 1: it's like really making sure you can be open to 350 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 1: the opportunity when your kids ask questions or are curious. Yeah, 351 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,880 Speaker 1: my friend Deva Rothman says it's much better to have 352 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,159 Speaker 1: a hundred one minute talks with your kid than one 353 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:34,679 Speaker 1: minute talk, right, And they don't all need to be 354 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 1: like heavy, deep and reel, just a just a comment 355 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,919 Speaker 1: that shows you acknowledge and you're observing. Wow, that's not 356 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:44,360 Speaker 1: the way that I think about women when I think 357 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:47,119 Speaker 1: about them the way this music video shows them, something like, 358 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 1: that's a conversation, right, it doesn't need to be a 359 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,360 Speaker 1: whole big deal. That's really great. I my parents never 360 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 1: talked to me um about sex, even though we were 361 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: a very um like open household. I grew up in 362 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:01,359 Speaker 1: a house that only had one bathroom and there were 363 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: four of us, and so it was like non negotiable that, 364 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: like everybody was in there at one time in bras underwear. 365 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 1: It's like like it was the reality of the situation. 366 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:11,440 Speaker 1: Like they were very open, but they never talked to 367 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 1: me about sex until my cousin got pregnant at sixteen 368 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: and my mom came burst into the bathroom and was like, 369 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 1: are you practicing safe sex? Do you use a condom? 370 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 1: Like it was so it was like insane um And 371 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 1: it was the first time we'd ever talked about sex, 372 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:33,160 Speaker 1: and it was aggressive and scary. And I already knew 373 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 1: all that, Like I was already sixteen, already knew about condoms, 374 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:37,879 Speaker 1: already new about sex. I already lost my virginity, like 375 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 1: it was, you know what I mean, it was already 376 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 1: at old that but like she freaked out because it 377 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: became a reality to her that I could get pregnant. 378 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:52,640 Speaker 1: You know, Um, when are people suggested to to have 379 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:56,440 Speaker 1: conversations with their daughters about birth control? Or like, are 380 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,159 Speaker 1: we supposed to wait for them to bring it up? 381 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 1: Or do we bring it up in these little versations 382 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: along the way. Well, like most questions, there's not one 383 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:07,639 Speaker 1: definitive answer. Some people feel more comfortable kind of waiting 384 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 1: until the kids bring it up. That's not my favorite 385 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 1: strategy because I think we need to be giving kids 386 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,440 Speaker 1: messages all along. So even if they're not bringing it up, 387 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:20,439 Speaker 1: I think it's important for us not to say, like, 388 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 1: are you having sex? And do you know how to 389 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:25,720 Speaker 1: use a condom? But um, hey have they talked about 390 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,919 Speaker 1: condoms in school or when you're watching TV? Hey? Do 391 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,399 Speaker 1: you know when people say having sex? Do you know 392 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 1: what that means? Um? And I think putting it also 393 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,239 Speaker 1: in the sense of I want to make sure that 394 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:43,400 Speaker 1: you can have the most positive, healthy, you know, enjoyable 395 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: experiences that that you can have when it's time to 396 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,880 Speaker 1: have them. This is one place where Europe just does 397 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:51,880 Speaker 1: so much better than we do. You know, Europeans are 398 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:55,439 Speaker 1: much more calm about talking about sex with their kids. 399 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 1: They're much more at ease thinking about older teens as 400 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,120 Speaker 1: becoming sexually active and that that's sort of a natural, 401 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,640 Speaker 1: normal part of the life cycle. Um, and not every 402 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 1: kid is, but a lot of them are. You know, 403 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: if you're seventeen and you live in Denmark, for example, 404 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:15,200 Speaker 1: it's not unusual that your parents will say to you, 405 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 1: you know, you have a sweetheart. I know that maybe 406 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: you're thinking about being sexual with them. I'd so much 407 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 1: rather if you're going to have sex, you bring your 408 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 1: sweet heart home and you have it here in your 409 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 1: own bedroom where it's safe and comfortable and there's people 410 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,880 Speaker 1: who you love around you. You know that sounds crazy 411 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,440 Speaker 1: to a lot of American parents to think they would 412 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 1: totally freaking my god. My dad would be like, are 413 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:37,679 Speaker 1: you just like then on my little girl, like not 414 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,679 Speaker 1: in my under my roof? And I get that, and 415 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:42,639 Speaker 1: I get that, and you know, those values are important 416 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: and we can talk about those, but um, but you know, 417 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 1: at what point are we really thinking about the reality 418 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:51,159 Speaker 1: of our kids and our kids lives and how do 419 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 1: we help them. We don't want them to be heatonists. 420 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 1: We want them to make really good, value based, healthy decisions. 421 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: They can't do that without information totally. They can't do 422 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 1: that without practice in decision making. So how are we 423 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:10,879 Speaker 1: helping them move towards those more adult decisions as they 424 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: grow up and as we talk to them. It's funny 425 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 1: as a nanny, I've become like certain moms in betweens 426 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 1: where like, like the moms have been like, hey, can 427 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 1: you just find out if my kid is doing stuff? 428 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 1: I don't care if they are. I want them to 429 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 1: be like living their best life, but just please let 430 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:30,680 Speaker 1: me know if they're not happy or something like that. 431 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 1: And I'm like so relieved because one of the girls 432 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:35,879 Speaker 1: is sexually active who I used to babies it for, 433 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,440 Speaker 1: and she feels great about her choice, So I feel 434 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: so great, do you know what I mean? Like, I'm like, 435 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, thank God, because I know how bad 436 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 1: it can go. The most we can hope for is 437 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 1: that they feel empowered by their choice. Man or woman, 438 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: trans whatever you are, that you just can look back 439 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 1: on that memory of being in your first loving relationship 440 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:57,639 Speaker 1: or the first time you were sexual with someone or 441 00:24:57,680 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: whatever it is and look back and be like psyched 442 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,359 Speaker 1: about I totally get it, and it's it's my goal too. 443 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 1: I mean, how many of us look back on our 444 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 1: early sexual experiences with real fondness or with joy or think, wow, 445 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: that was awesome. You know, many of us fumbled into 446 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 1: things we weren't really thinking about, ready for, psyched about. 447 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 1: And you know, the saddest thing in the world is 448 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,120 Speaker 1: when I hear kids tell me, you know, they had 449 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 1: sex just to get it over work or that, or 450 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:25,879 Speaker 1: they tell me like, well, it has to hurt the 451 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,920 Speaker 1: first time, Like, no, it doesn't, and we can talk 452 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,919 Speaker 1: about that and if it does, you know, we can 453 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 1: do something about that. Genius. I'm so glad you exist. 454 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 1: So tell me about your developed alternative approach to sex education. 455 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: So it's you know, pretty common in America that when 456 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,960 Speaker 1: we talk about sex we use baseball language like sloppy 457 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 1: second I mean, oh my god, does that still exist. 458 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:54,719 Speaker 1: It does now exist more with younger kids. It's more 459 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: of a middle school kind of thing. But the problem 460 00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,920 Speaker 1: is that once you start talking about it that way, 461 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,719 Speaker 1: that model sort of stays in your head. And so 462 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,160 Speaker 1: even though high school kids don't talk about first base, 463 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,199 Speaker 1: second base, third base, you know, they still have that 464 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 1: model that sex is this kind of competitive game that's 465 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: kind of like me against you offense and defense. Um, 466 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: and that really sets up some bad stuff, and especially 467 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,119 Speaker 1: if you're talking about heterosexual sex, because in the baseball model, 468 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 1: you know, very often it's the it's the male bodied, 469 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 1: you know, boy identified person who's rounding the bases, and 470 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: the girl is the field that the game gets played. Yeah, 471 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 1: you don't get the second base by touching a guy's 472 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 1: boob and everybody would know that. Um, So that model 473 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 1: is really destructive. But I have to say that model 474 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:49,399 Speaker 1: is packed with power and privilege and patriarchy and is 475 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 1: not going anywhere because there's a lot of people really 476 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,000 Speaker 1: invested in it. So what I think we have to 477 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: do is give kids the ability to think of an 478 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,159 Speaker 1: alternative model. So I come up with the p some 479 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,959 Speaker 1: model that instead of thinking about having sex like rounding 480 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,159 Speaker 1: the bases, we think about it like having pizza. A 481 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 1: couple of differences that are important. So when you play baseball, 482 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 1: you don't always get to decide when it's time to play, right. 483 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 1: There are certain times and seasons and events that just 484 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 1: require you to play baseball. Pizza Ideally, you have it 485 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:24,680 Speaker 1: when you want to have it, when you're hungry for it, 486 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 1: when you have an internal yen or desire for it. 487 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 1: So it starts in here, not out there. Baseball's competitive, 488 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 1: pizzas cooperative. Baseball's sort of strictly bound by rules. You 489 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:38,240 Speaker 1: go to first, then you go to second, then you 490 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: go to third. Pizzas about choice. What do you like, 491 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,159 Speaker 1: what do you want? What tastes good to you? What 492 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 1: are you feeling now? And that can be different and 493 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:53,119 Speaker 1: different experiences. Baseball is about winning and losing, scoring a 494 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:57,200 Speaker 1: lot of runs, winning the game. Pizzas about feeling satisfied. 495 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,879 Speaker 1: You get to decide when you stop. You don't have 496 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 1: to have the entire pizza to have a good pizza experience. 497 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 1: Um so it's a whole different model and way of thinking. 498 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 1: Pizza is much more about variety and choice and is 499 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,919 Speaker 1: much more sensual, like appealing to the senses right now, 500 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,200 Speaker 1: and I can't. I'm starving, like you're My mouth is 501 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 1: like sorry, you're talking about things. I'm just thinking about pizza. 502 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,400 Speaker 1: Keep going and that's fine. Kids do that. Every Every 503 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 1: Wednesday in my school is Pizza Day and literally is 504 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 1: hystorical about that. Um, you know, pizza is much more 505 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,400 Speaker 1: The pizza model is much more inclusive because you don't 506 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: need a bat and a ball in a glove. Right. 507 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: I work in a school that has a very large 508 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 1: Jewish population, So during Passover we have mazza pizza in 509 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 1: the cafeterias, Pizza that's legit in the same way that 510 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 1: the same way that bagel pizza is legit, in the 511 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 1: same way that a vegan pizza is legit. It's about 512 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: preference and choice, and you know what works for you. 513 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 1: So we need to give kids a model that's much 514 00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: more like that than a model that's restrictive and that's 515 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 1: very rule bounds, competitive based, and goal oriented, because that's 516 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: just gonna lead to really bad sex for most people, 517 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: and that's not the goal. The goal is to really 518 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 1: have people feel good. Have you found that this model 519 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 1: resonates with young people? It does. I mean, it certainly 520 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: resonates a lot with young women because they realize the 521 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 1: flaws of the baseball model resonates a lot with LGBTQ 522 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 1: folks because they feel included in it um And you know, 523 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: even straight guys who really want to be good partners 524 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 1: and are thinking about their partners not just a glorified 525 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 1: sex toy, but as as a human being. They want 526 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 1: to interact with they really get how even what their 527 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,360 Speaker 1: intentions are can change the impact of what happens. So 528 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 1: they may they may want to be really affirming and 529 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 1: and not boxed in, but they feel so freaked out 530 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 1: that they resort to this very easily accessible model and 531 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 1: it winds up not providing what they are they're sweethearts 532 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 1: really want, right, So yeah, there's definitely been an openness 533 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 1: to it. We talked a lot about language and it's funny, 534 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 1: I heard myself even say it, I said, lost my virginity? 535 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 1: Oh God, what do we do about that? What do 536 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 1: we do about the language of losing your virginity? Also, 537 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 1: you've talked about having sex, like how can we make 538 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 1: waves parents listening with young children about changing the language 539 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 1: around this stuff. Sure, a lot of the language is 540 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 1: is old, a lot of it's very sexist, a lot 541 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 1: of it's very heterosexist. So so, for example, losing virginity, 542 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 1: you know, the whole concept of virginity, which I don't 543 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:52,479 Speaker 1: want to throw the whole concept out because there's some 544 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 1: positive things about the idea. When you look historically at 545 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 1: what virginity meant, who it was important for. I mean, 546 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,440 Speaker 1: it was from the time when marriage was a business transaction, 547 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 1: and you know you've got you got more goats for 548 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 1: a woman who was pure a virgin. Yeah, and you 549 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 1: know what did that actually mean? That meant not penetrated vaginally, 550 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 1: as if that somehow magically and for pureness no matter 551 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 1: what the person had done, and with it conferred some 552 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 1: sort of like damaged goods. Um. So we have to 553 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 1: be really honest about where those terms came from, what 554 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 1: they're about. A lot of my work and sexuality education 555 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 1: is about reframing concepts. Here's the way we've looked at it, 556 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:38,360 Speaker 1: here's what's problematic about it. Let's try something else, and 557 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 1: the new thing might not work the first time, so 558 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 1: you keep trying it until you get something that really works. 559 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 1: So for reframing virginity, you know, I like to not 560 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 1: think about losing virginity because it's not something you have 561 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 1: to lose. I also don't like the idea of like 562 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 1: giving virginity, because that feels like it's some kind of 563 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,719 Speaker 1: prize that people. You know, there's not real good language 564 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:01,840 Speaker 1: for this, So I say that my definition of virginity 565 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,719 Speaker 1: is tied to my definition of having sex. So I 566 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,719 Speaker 1: don't like the definition of having sex that implies just 567 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 1: vaginal intercourse or an intercourse. It says nothing about consent, 568 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:18,320 Speaker 1: nothing about pleasure, nothing about intention, nothing about desire. So 569 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: my definition of having sex, which kids hate, by the way, 570 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 1: because it's complicated and long, is you know, consensual, sober 571 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 1: sexual activity that's mutually pleasurable, and that includes reproduction if 572 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 1: you want it. That's that's kind of a mouthful. And 573 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,120 Speaker 1: kids are like, well, how do we know what people did? 574 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: Why do we have to know what people do? Well? 575 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,120 Speaker 1: How that's the big thing in school. It's like he 576 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 1: made it to third base and what's his name's bar Mitts, 577 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:51,600 Speaker 1: vote whatever, and your back to baseball's room to base, 578 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 1: and that's how we all find out how far they 579 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 1: got right, And nobody ever challenges like, hey, what does 580 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 1: that matter? Why do I need to know that? How 581 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 1: is that my business? And if that impacts the way 582 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,200 Speaker 1: I'm going to look at this person? What does that 583 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: say about me and about the way I think about right? 584 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 1: Oh gosh, it's so interesting. Um, okay, your kids masturbating, 585 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 1: you walk in, what are you supposed to say? You 586 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 1: say excuse me and you walk You know, it seems 587 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:27,160 Speaker 1: pretty right. You know, we're not in trouble. Actually, right, 588 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 1: actually I have. That's that's in my book. It's one 589 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 1: of the things I address is what happens if you 590 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 1: walk in on your kid having sex, your kid masturbating. 591 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 1: And it depends what your house rules are, you know, 592 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 1: Like if I'm allowed to be alone in my room 593 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 1: with the door closed and I'm a teenager, I might 594 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,920 Speaker 1: very well be masturbating. And if you walk in, then 595 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 1: you know and I'm doing that. If you freak out, 596 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 1: what's the message I'm going to learn from that? If 597 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: you say, oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know you want 598 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 1: a private time whatever, that's a whole different message, right. 599 00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 1: I always say to parents, try to access your hopes, 600 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:03,400 Speaker 1: not your fears. So when we react in shame based ways, 601 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,080 Speaker 1: we are acting out of fear something's wrong with my kid, 602 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:11,879 Speaker 1: my kids doing something that's going to create a bad life. Right, Well, 603 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,319 Speaker 1: masturbation is totally healthy, and if we react to it 604 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,759 Speaker 1: as a normal part of development for many kids, then 605 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:22,319 Speaker 1: we say, oh, okay, right, yeah, it's not something I 606 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,560 Speaker 1: want to see. But you know you're old enough you 607 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 1: get to have private time. Maybe we need to figure out, like, 608 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:28,919 Speaker 1: if you really don't want me to come in your room, 609 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,040 Speaker 1: you put a sock on the door, or we have 610 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 1: a knock three times rule or something like that that 611 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:37,240 Speaker 1: tells me you might need some private time. The whole 612 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:42,280 Speaker 1: shame around sex thing, I think that this is hard, 613 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,359 Speaker 1: This is really hard. I think it's tied to some 614 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:48,319 Speaker 1: people with their religion, with with their parents. Shame is 615 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:54,040 Speaker 1: a reaction to feeling like not I've done something that's wrong, 616 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 1: but I am something that's wrong. You know, Bernie Brown 617 00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,800 Speaker 1: talks about that time is I am a mistake? Guilt 618 00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:03,040 Speaker 1: is I've done something wrong? And and when it comes 619 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 1: to sexual shame, that just creates such unhealthy sexuality in 620 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:13,880 Speaker 1: people because it makes who we are fundamentally an error. 621 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,480 Speaker 1: You know, if if if you get shamed for being 622 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,560 Speaker 1: gay or trans or left handed or blue eyed or whatever, 623 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 1: that makes you a mistake. And it's really hard to 624 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:28,240 Speaker 1: access healthy relationships when you feel like what you're bringing 625 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:32,040 Speaker 1: to the table is a mistake. Now guilt, which is 626 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,080 Speaker 1: I've done something that violates the value or violates a 627 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,279 Speaker 1: rule that's not always bad. And I'm Italian Catholic, like 628 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 1: shame and guilt or my middle I grew up with 629 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,799 Speaker 1: my whole life and you know, sometimes guilt can really 630 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,520 Speaker 1: be like, oh, I kind of screwed up and I 631 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,239 Speaker 1: need to think about that. But shame is never a 632 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:53,800 Speaker 1: good thing. And so whenever we are tempted to react 633 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,360 Speaker 1: out of shame, it helps to ask ourselves, like, what 634 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,560 Speaker 1: am I afraid of in this moment? What's my fear? 635 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,960 Speaker 1: And then where's the positive? Where's the hope, where's the good? 636 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 1: Because I don't think any parent, I mean, I'm not 637 00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,319 Speaker 1: a parent, so I can't speak to this, but I 638 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:13,759 Speaker 1: think you want your kids, someday, when the time is right, 639 00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:21,239 Speaker 1: for them to have really amazing, loving, pleasurable, great sexual experiences. Right. 640 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,880 Speaker 1: You don't want them to feel terrible about their bodies 641 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:28,719 Speaker 1: or ashamed of everything they do, or that somehow they're 642 00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:31,440 Speaker 1: creating evil when they're trying to connect with somebody in 643 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 1: a really intimate way. So again, how do we encourage 644 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:37,799 Speaker 1: that hope? How do we help kids walk towards I'm 645 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:43,040 Speaker 1: going to have healthy, open, honest, consent based pleasure, aware 646 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,000 Speaker 1: of relationships, not I'm going to get around breaking the 647 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,440 Speaker 1: rules and I'm going to get around, you know, sneaking 648 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:50,319 Speaker 1: around so that nobody knows what I'm doing this, right, 649 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,319 Speaker 1: I can remember my sister in law, who she's such 650 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 1: an amazing mom, she's a daughter, and we were talking 651 00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,640 Speaker 1: about her being sexually active, which of course was like 652 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:02,360 Speaker 1: you it was like jokes and you know, just like whatever, 653 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 1: and she just came out of left field with the 654 00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,680 Speaker 1: again baseball guys. Wow, she came out of left field 655 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:12,160 Speaker 1: with like um, with just a really profound It struck me. 656 00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,040 Speaker 1: I still think about it. She just was like, well, whenever, 657 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:16,640 Speaker 1: you know my daughter is actually active. I just hope 658 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:19,680 Speaker 1: she's safe and comfortable enough where she can be vulnerable, 659 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:21,279 Speaker 1: and I hope she has a really good time, and 660 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,200 Speaker 1: I hope she really enjoys herself. And I was like, whoa, 661 00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,799 Speaker 1: that is the coolest mom answer I've ever heard. Like 662 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:33,640 Speaker 1: I never even thought about that as an option, you know, right, 663 00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:37,400 Speaker 1: that doesn't even make the list when we're thinking about it, awful, Like, 664 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:39,360 Speaker 1: of course you want them for your children. How do 665 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:41,440 Speaker 1: we teach our kids to practice safe sex, not just 666 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:45,319 Speaker 1: wearing a condom or taking birth control? And how do 667 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:50,719 Speaker 1: you teach your kids about consent? Okay, so those are 668 00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:53,400 Speaker 1: two big questions. So consents a conversation that has to 669 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,920 Speaker 1: exist around far more than just sex, right, we have 670 00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:01,360 Speaker 1: to think about everyday consent. For me, consent is required 671 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:06,359 Speaker 1: whenever we interact with somebody else's body, property, or reputation. 672 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:09,440 Speaker 1: So if I'm going to interact with somebody else's body 673 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:13,320 Speaker 1: or somebody else's stuff, or if I'm going to interact 674 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,400 Speaker 1: with somebody's reputations say something about them that's going to 675 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:19,120 Speaker 1: impact the way other people see them, I need consent. 676 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:23,440 Speaker 1: So whether it's borrowing a French fry, or you know, 677 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,160 Speaker 1: can I give you a high five? Or hey, guess 678 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,399 Speaker 1: what I heard about somebody? All those are consent situations. 679 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,719 Speaker 1: The better we are everyday consent, the better will be 680 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:36,160 Speaker 1: as sexual consent. Partly why we're so bad at sexual 681 00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:39,960 Speaker 1: consent is we're not focused enough on consent in our 682 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,680 Speaker 1: everyday lives. And that doesn't mean walking around with like 683 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:46,960 Speaker 1: legal contracts and clipboards. It just means being aware of 684 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:51,160 Speaker 1: how I'm interacting with people and how much choice I'm 685 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:56,399 Speaker 1: giving people, being aware of my own actions and interactions, 686 00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,560 Speaker 1: and being aware that other people are people and they 687 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:03,840 Speaker 1: deserved have agency and choice. So of course you want that. 688 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,680 Speaker 1: When it comes to sex, which is one of the 689 00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:09,279 Speaker 1: most intimate things people can do together, it doesn't have 690 00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:11,759 Speaker 1: to be, but often often we want it to be. 691 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:14,880 Speaker 1: But kids often get kind of legalistic about it, especially 692 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:16,840 Speaker 1: high school kids, like, you know, do I have to 693 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:21,600 Speaker 1: ask about every single thing I do? Well? I mean ideally, yeah, 694 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:25,680 Speaker 1: but in most situations that doesn't happen. Does non verbal 695 00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:30,640 Speaker 1: consent count well? Yeah, we communicate verbally and nonverbally, but 696 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:34,680 Speaker 1: verbal consent is usually a lot more clear and a 697 00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,839 Speaker 1: lot more easy to understand. So if you're not sure 698 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,880 Speaker 1: about the signals you're getting, ask a verbal question. Um. So, 699 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:45,160 Speaker 1: consent is bigger and and needs to be practiced from 700 00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:48,000 Speaker 1: when we're little kids all the way up and then 701 00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:51,040 Speaker 1: safer sex. Again, it's so much bigger than how to 702 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:53,000 Speaker 1: use a condom. So one of the things I do 703 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:57,000 Speaker 1: is I ask kids, take any experience riding a bike, 704 00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:01,480 Speaker 1: driving a car, jump off a roof. You know, what 705 00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:03,719 Speaker 1: are all the kinds of things that can make that 706 00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:08,880 Speaker 1: experience safer? You know, Protective equipment is one thing, but 707 00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:15,319 Speaker 1: so is like believing you're vulnerable, reading the instructures, not 708 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:20,600 Speaker 1: feeling pressured, um, doing it with someone you trust, so 709 00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:23,239 Speaker 1: that we we fill the whole, you know, whiteboard with 710 00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:26,080 Speaker 1: all these different things that can make something safer, and 711 00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:29,200 Speaker 1: then we say, okay, safer sex. How are all these 712 00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:32,279 Speaker 1: things part of it? So I may know how to 713 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:37,120 Speaker 1: use a condom, but if I don't feel vulnerable, I 714 00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:40,359 Speaker 1: might not think I need to use it. Or if 715 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:43,760 Speaker 1: I'm too freaked out to say I think we should 716 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,840 Speaker 1: use a condom because I don't trust the person that 717 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,040 Speaker 1: I'm with enough and I'm afraid they're going to reject me, 718 00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:52,360 Speaker 1: then that information is not useful. So again, it's a 719 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:56,479 Speaker 1: bigger conversation, and it's a conversation that we can have 720 00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:59,320 Speaker 1: in lots of different ways about lots of different things 721 00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,400 Speaker 1: that all lead us back to how do we create 722 00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:07,440 Speaker 1: an experience that leads to health and agency and openness 723 00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:12,640 Speaker 1: and a positive outcome rather than a negative. How can 724 00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:14,600 Speaker 1: we be and how are you being more inclusive to 725 00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,160 Speaker 1: the l g b t Q plus youth when it 726 00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:19,879 Speaker 1: comes to sex? Said? Oh, sure, in lots and lots 727 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:22,240 Speaker 1: of positive ways. I work in a school that happens 728 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:24,600 Speaker 1: to be very different. It's a very progressive school. We 729 00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:27,279 Speaker 1: have lots of you know, out trans kids and out 730 00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,560 Speaker 1: lgbt Q kids. Um, but you know, here's so here's 731 00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:33,080 Speaker 1: one of the things I think you know, Um, When 732 00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:35,080 Speaker 1: I pick up a sex said book, one of the 733 00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,880 Speaker 1: things I look at is does it have a separate 734 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:41,960 Speaker 1: chapter for lgbt Q kids or are those kids integrated 735 00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:45,800 Speaker 1: into every chapter? Because the book that segregates l g 736 00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:49,040 Speaker 1: b t Q sexuality into its own special chapter is 737 00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:51,200 Speaker 1: kind of saying you're not like everybody else, you need 738 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:55,440 Speaker 1: special instructions. I like books that actually, when they're talking 739 00:41:55,480 --> 00:42:01,200 Speaker 1: about kids and sex and sexuality are always integrated, difference 740 00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:04,520 Speaker 1: into it in every way, because that's showing me, oh, 741 00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:07,279 Speaker 1: you know that I'm here from the get go. You're 742 00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:09,600 Speaker 1: not thinking about me as an other or as a 743 00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:12,120 Speaker 1: special category. I think that's the way we have to 744 00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:14,520 Speaker 1: approach it. And so you know, I don't really do 745 00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:18,760 Speaker 1: a unit on l g b t Q folks. Everything 746 00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:21,640 Speaker 1: integrated has to be right, Everything has to be integrated. 747 00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:24,440 Speaker 1: That's the best way we can do it. When parents 748 00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:27,359 Speaker 1: know right, like their kid is really little and their 749 00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,960 Speaker 1: kid might not know yet that they're gay or their 750 00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:33,080 Speaker 1: trans or whatever it is in the and the parents 751 00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:39,160 Speaker 1: are already feeling it, do you suggest parents bring it 752 00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:41,040 Speaker 1: up or are we supposed to wait for kids to 753 00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:45,040 Speaker 1: say something? You know, the only valid label is the 754 00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:47,800 Speaker 1: one a person is going to give to themselves. So 755 00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:52,160 Speaker 1: if a parent says, you know, honey, I know you're 756 00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:55,840 Speaker 1: gay and that's okay, it doesn't mean anything unless the 757 00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:59,200 Speaker 1: kid is able to say, oh, yeah, that's a label 758 00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:01,080 Speaker 1: that really that I think really fits me, and then 759 00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:04,560 Speaker 1: I'm ready to take on. So I just say, and 760 00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:07,200 Speaker 1: this is this is true for every parent, because no 761 00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:14,920 Speaker 1: parent knows ultimately the children, right, So we always just 762 00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:19,359 Speaker 1: want to be um giving messages that show we are 763 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,520 Speaker 1: open to you being whoever you are. We think you 764 00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:26,719 Speaker 1: deserve love and respect and care no matter who you 765 00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:28,799 Speaker 1: are or what you are, or who you love or 766 00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:33,000 Speaker 1: how you love. And we want you to know that 767 00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:36,600 Speaker 1: we're always going to work really hard to support your 768 00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:42,560 Speaker 1: authentic self. You know, Sexuality education really has three major goals, right, One, 769 00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:45,839 Speaker 1: how do we figure out who we are most authentically? 770 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:53,960 Speaker 1: Two how do we create authentic, honest relationships? And three 771 00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:56,719 Speaker 1: how do we make the world a better place? Like 772 00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:00,479 Speaker 1: successful sex said does those three things. It helps people 773 00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:03,920 Speaker 1: figure out who they are and how they're comfortable in 774 00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:08,239 Speaker 1: their own authentic skin, and it promotes authenticity. It helps 775 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,960 Speaker 1: us know that relationships that are built on honesty and 776 00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:16,520 Speaker 1: trust and communication and consent, and that when we're really 777 00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:20,120 Speaker 1: looking at another person as a person is always going 778 00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:23,080 Speaker 1: to be healthier than coming out of fear and looking 779 00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:26,480 Speaker 1: at a person as an object. And that ultimately the 780 00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:30,480 Speaker 1: expressions of our human sexuality should make the world more loving, 781 00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:34,319 Speaker 1: more free, more open, more fair. If we can do that, 782 00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:38,480 Speaker 1: we're doing really beautiful work. That's the work that I 783 00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:41,480 Speaker 1: think we all want to do for all of our kids. 784 00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,799 Speaker 1: And you know, I do it by talking about human sexuality, 785 00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:47,400 Speaker 1: and other people do it by talking about other things. 786 00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:50,560 Speaker 1: But I mean, I don't think you can argue with 787 00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:54,080 Speaker 1: those goals. I hope you can't. Um, That's what I'm 788 00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:56,239 Speaker 1: trying to do. I would like to end there, but 789 00:44:56,280 --> 00:45:00,239 Speaker 1: there's one thing I have to ask about. It's really life, 790 00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:09,800 Speaker 1: penis arrogance. Let's just end with some um, some penis arrogance, 791 00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:13,120 Speaker 1: because it scares the shift out of me. I don't 792 00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:16,760 Speaker 1: like it. I have a son. I'm scared, um, which 793 00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:18,680 Speaker 1: is not how I need to be. Tell me what 794 00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:21,440 Speaker 1: that is. So yeah, so penis arrogance is scary. Um. 795 00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:26,720 Speaker 1: Because of sexism and patriarchy, A lot of male bodied 796 00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:31,799 Speaker 1: people who identifies men grow up thinking that because they 797 00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:36,120 Speaker 1: have a penis, they are entitled to all kinds of 798 00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:38,960 Speaker 1: magical things in the world, that their penis gives them power, 799 00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:43,120 Speaker 1: and that that power gives them the right to take 800 00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:48,000 Speaker 1: what they want, have what they want, and not always 801 00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:51,960 Speaker 1: be nice about it. And it is really destructive. It 802 00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:55,040 Speaker 1: is really inhumane in lots of ways, and it's not 803 00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:59,040 Speaker 1: good for those people who have penises or for the 804 00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:05,439 Speaker 1: people they operate with. So um penis pride. Different story 805 00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:11,600 Speaker 1: about penis pride. That's awesome, But you know, how do 806 00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:18,040 Speaker 1: we help boys as they're growing up learn that they 807 00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:24,120 Speaker 1: want to be um wary of developing this arrogance, that 808 00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:26,719 Speaker 1: that is actually not making them more of a man, 809 00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:30,759 Speaker 1: it's making them a worse human being. And I don't 810 00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:33,600 Speaker 1: want you know, people accuse me of like wanting kids 811 00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:36,400 Speaker 1: to be like feminine or will see or you know, 812 00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:38,680 Speaker 1: gay or whatever, and that's not true. I love being 813 00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:43,000 Speaker 1: a man. I love masculinity and manhood, but I don't 814 00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:45,919 Speaker 1: think guys are entitled to be jerks. And I don't 815 00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:48,400 Speaker 1: think just because I have a penis, I get to 816 00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,880 Speaker 1: have anything I want. And I think being really upfront 817 00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:55,080 Speaker 1: and sort of saying, you know, that's really arrogant, like 818 00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:57,480 Speaker 1: A penis is not a lightsabe or a penis is 819 00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:00,480 Speaker 1: not something magic. It's a body part, you know. And 820 00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:02,080 Speaker 1: if you really want to talk about strength, you want 821 00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:04,440 Speaker 1: to talk about vaginas more than penis as anyway, because 822 00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:07,239 Speaker 1: and and don't even get me started on uterus, because 823 00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:11,680 Speaker 1: they're even more amazingly powerful. Um. But but I do 824 00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:14,680 Speaker 1: think that penis arrogance is something we need to be 825 00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:17,720 Speaker 1: mindful of and watch out for. And it's all over media, 826 00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:20,840 Speaker 1: and it's all over TV, and it crops up in 827 00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:23,879 Speaker 1: the ways boys talk to each other, and we need 828 00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:28,359 Speaker 1: to just be calling it out and basically saying you're 829 00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:31,759 Speaker 1: awesome enough without that, you don't need that. You have 830 00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:34,000 Speaker 1: every right to be proud of who you are, and 831 00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:35,600 Speaker 1: I want you to be proud of who you are, 832 00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:42,840 Speaker 1: but that pride has to exist within this larger community, 833 00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:47,000 Speaker 1: and arrogance pulls us away from community. Pride puts us 834 00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:50,400 Speaker 1: in community, and so we want to create more community, 835 00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:53,600 Speaker 1: not move us further away from it. So that's the 836 00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:57,440 Speaker 1: skinny on penis, whether or not your penis is skinny 837 00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:04,480 Speaker 1: or not, exactly, al Vernacia, ladies and gentlemen, I feel 838 00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:07,920 Speaker 1: the parents in your school are so lucky to have you. 839 00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:10,160 Speaker 1: The kids in your school are so lucky to have you. 840 00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:12,520 Speaker 1: The work that you are offering up to all of 841 00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:14,920 Speaker 1: us in your book for Goodness, sex changing the way 842 00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:17,760 Speaker 1: we talked to young people about sexuality, values and health. Guys, 843 00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:21,000 Speaker 1: just google al Vernacio in sex education and you will 844 00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:24,800 Speaker 1: go down a spiral that you will be so grateful 845 00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:27,920 Speaker 1: you did. Um, and thank you so much for being 846 00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:30,799 Speaker 1: on Katie's Crib and talking to our listeners. Thanks so much, Katie. 847 00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:32,919 Speaker 1: I've had a great time talking with you. Thanks so much. 848 00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:37,280 Speaker 1: If you guys liked what you heard, tell all your friends, subscribe, 849 00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:41,320 Speaker 1: send me questions, comments, you know the deal to Katie's 850 00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:44,600 Speaker 1: Crib at Shonda land dot com. And I love you 851 00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:48,319 Speaker 1: all so much. And let's all help our kids lead 852 00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:51,400 Speaker 1: some healthy sex lives. Huh Like, I'm all about that. 853 00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:02,319 Speaker 1: Katie's Grim is a production of Shonda land Audio in 854 00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:05,360 Speaker 1: partnership with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from Shonda 855 00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,200 Speaker 1: land Audio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 856 00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:13,880 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Okay, you 857 00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,719 Speaker 1: want