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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly john Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds. And Matt Gates says he misses Speaker

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Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy. We have such an interesting show for you today.

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Speaker 1: Connecticut Senator Chris Murphy talks to us about the bill

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Speaker 1: he spent three months negotiating, which Mike Johnson declared dead

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Speaker 1: on arrival without reading. Then we'll talk to the dailyb

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Speaker 1: smat Fuller about the chaos in the house under our speaker,

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Speaker 1: Mega Mike Johnson. But first we have slight senior editor,

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Speaker 1: the author of Lady Justice, Women, The Law and the

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Speaker 1: Battle to Save America, Dahlia Lithwick.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to Fast Politics.

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Speaker 3: Dahlia, Hello, friend, what fun it is to ride through

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Speaker 3: the one court open slay.

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Speaker 1: Hi, So we both listened to this incredibly.

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Speaker 2: I don't know sort of it. I mean, you are

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Speaker 2: the expert here.

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Speaker 1: I was surprised at how little any of the justices

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Speaker 1: were buying today.

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Speaker 3: Well, they were buying very little that Jonathan Mitchell was

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Speaker 3: selling on the Trump side, until it became clear they

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Speaker 3: were buying even less of what Jason Murray was selling.

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Speaker 3: So listening to the first half, I was like, Wow,

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Speaker 3: Mitchell is conceding every point he doesn't need to concede,

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Speaker 3: and he's giving away the farm, and what's he doing?

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Speaker 3: And then after Murray sat down, I was like, oh, well,

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Speaker 3: somehow Mitchell has snatched victory from the jazz of defeat.

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Speaker 2: It was really strange.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you listen to a lot more

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court arguments than I do, but I was gobsmacked

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Speaker 1: by how it seemed like Trump's lawyer was not a

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Speaker 1: very good lawyer and kind of fight wo the justices

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Speaker 1: a little bet. But then the justices were, even the

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Speaker 1: liberal justices. We're not having anything from what the Colorado

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Speaker 1: solicitor or general or any of that crew we're trying

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Speaker 1: to sound.

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Speaker 3: I think that the play here that Jonathan Mitchell. Let's

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Speaker 3: remember that guy is the architect of SB eight, right.

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Speaker 3: You remember the vigilante bill in Texas that overturned Row

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Speaker 3: even before Rowe was overturned. So I think what he

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Speaker 3: did and his brief was very weird, and it focused

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Speaker 3: on this officer thing.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: It was like, we're not going to make our strongest argument,

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Speaker 3: which came up a couple times today, which is maybe,

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Speaker 3: you know, a five day trial in Colorado shouldn't be

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Speaker 3: like the baseline that everyone has to agree proved he insurrected.

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Speaker 3: And that was a strong argument. The dissenters on the

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Speaker 3: Colorado Supreme Court were fussed about that. But that isn't

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Speaker 3: the issue Jonathan Mitchell presses. What he presses is this

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Speaker 3: officer thing, right, Trump isn't contemplated as an officer under

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Speaker 3: section three of the fourteenth Amendment. What's kind of interesting

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Speaker 3: is that that was an elegant out for the court

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Speaker 3: to decide this case on a really technical, you know,

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Speaker 3: originalist text and meaning they could have just had this arcane,

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Speaker 3: kind of bruined style, let's just like parse the text.

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Speaker 3: What was weird And I think what you're reacting to

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Speaker 3: is the degree to which a court that was given

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Speaker 3: the opportunity to do that and loves to do that

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Speaker 3: instead just dove in head first on the pragmatic political

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Speaker 3: how is this going to affect people? Argument? And so

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Speaker 3: the whole second half of the argument was stuff like

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Speaker 3: the Chief Justice complaining that what he called the plain

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Speaker 3: consequences right, that states are going to disqualify democrats and

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Speaker 3: then others are going to disqualify Trump, and it's going

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Speaker 3: to be this patchwork, and you know, Elena Kagan at

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Speaker 3: one point said, I'm just going to ask this bold question,

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Speaker 3: why should a single state get to decide who gets

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Speaker 3: to be president of the US. So there's a way

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Speaker 3: in which, given the gift of deciding this in a

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Speaker 3: really court ish way, they kind of just decided it

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Speaker 3: in the manner of nine people who are super worried

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Speaker 3: about looking dumb.

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Speaker 1: I shouldn't laugh, because it was really depressing. And it

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Speaker 1: seemed as if like the liberal justices were I mean,

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Speaker 1: with the exception of Sodomyer, who seemed actually quite infuriated,

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Speaker 1: I thought at times, the rest of them seemed sort

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Speaker 1: of on board with this idea that they were just

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Speaker 1: not going to touch it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think Justice Kagan made it really

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Speaker 3: plain that she did not want to be part of

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Speaker 3: unloosing kind of a disaster on the nation. And I

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Speaker 3: think Katanji Brown Jackson was all in on this officer

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Speaker 3: officer question and essentially said, like, if I do straight

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Speaker 3: up originalist reading, I don't think that the drafters of

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Speaker 3: the fourteenth Amendment meant to include you know, the president

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Speaker 3: and the vice president I think they were going after,

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Speaker 3: you know, lesser officers, Confederate officers who were infiltrating state legislatures.

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Speaker 3: She basically conceded to the argument, which, by the way,

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Speaker 3: I think is just kind of a bad argument. But

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Speaker 3: it was the argument that the Trump folks hung the

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Speaker 3: entire thing on. So I think you're going to get

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Speaker 3: I almost want to say unanimous. I agree with you that.

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Speaker 3: I think so Mayor hated this whole thing, and she

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Speaker 3: hated them. Essentially, this was giving a get out of

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Speaker 3: jail free card to presidents who foment insurrections, who've never

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Speaker 3: held another office before. But I think otherwise you're going

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Speaker 3: to get six seven eight votes either for this officer

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Speaker 3: officer thing or for this you know, we can't have

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Speaker 3: a lack of uniformity and therefore we need an enabling

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Speaker 3: statute from Congress. But it was not liberal conservative. I

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Speaker 3: think it was just I don't want to touch this

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Speaker 3: hot potato. How about you?

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Speaker 2: I hate it to move on. That's what it was.

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Speaker 1: But it's so interesting because the officer officer think is

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Speaker 1: so fucking stupid, and also like the whole idea that

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Speaker 1: the fourteenth Amendment is somehow that that would mean that

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Speaker 1: they could have elected Jefferson Davis.

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Speaker 3: Right, and the idea that they would be like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: we're not going to let anybody who was a former

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Speaker 3: Confederate or you know, who aided and embedded or enabled

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Speaker 3: an insurrection, you know, have high office except the president

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Speaker 3: and the vice president. That would be okay, it defies logic.

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Speaker 3: You can read the historians briefs about this. On my

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Speaker 3: podcast last week, I had an amazing historian who just

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Speaker 3: debunked the crap out of these arguments. But I think

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Speaker 3: maybe your point is, and it's correct. I think when

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Speaker 3: it the rubber hits the road, text and history isn't

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Speaker 3: the whole shooting match.

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Speaker 2: It never was.

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Speaker 3: And the fact that Jonathan Mitchell, Trump's attorney just conceded

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Speaker 3: that he was his whole case on this in Regriffin case,

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Speaker 3: which is not a Supreme Court precedent and which was

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Speaker 3: like later retracted by Sam and Chase who wrote it,

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Speaker 3: you know when he's like, yeah, it's not binding, it's

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Speaker 3: not president, it wasn't a Supreme Court decision, but it's

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Speaker 3: the best thing we have.

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Speaker 2: It's a terrible decision.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's just a very political decision for somebody who

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Speaker 3: was on the side of the Confederates.

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Speaker 2: But I think maybe.

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Speaker 3: If we try to back out of like the catastrophe

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Speaker 3: that was oral argument. Maybe I want to put the

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Speaker 3: best possible spin on this because I have to, because

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Speaker 3: it's sobbing.

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Speaker 2: And I think the best possible spin.

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Speaker 3: Is to say that. On February eighth of twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 3: the United States Supreme Court discovered humility. I discovered that

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Speaker 3: even though it like wants to weigh in on what

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Speaker 3: the Clean Air Act is and the Clean Water Act,

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Speaker 3: and vaccine policy and immigration policy and you know, re

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Speaker 3: asking questions about FDA approval of mifipristone, it's the expert

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Speaker 3: on all things. But apparently today it learned it doesn't

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Speaker 3: want to be the decider. And maybe if next week

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Speaker 3: it can say and thus we summarily affirm the DC

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Speaker 3: Circuit opinion finding that Trump is not immune from criminal consequences.

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Speaker 3: I could be on board for the newly humble Roberts Court.

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Speaker 2: How about you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I want them to go back and put rowback

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Speaker 1: on the books. I mean, these fuckers, you know, states

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Speaker 1: don't have the right to decide except.

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Speaker 2: When we like what they're designed.

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Speaker 3: We can vivisect the Voting Rights Act because of the

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Speaker 3: dignity of states.

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Speaker 2: Except for the dignity of.

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Speaker 3: Colorado that wants to take an insurrectionist of the ballot.

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Speaker 3: That's like not interesting. I think we just have to

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Speaker 3: like look at this as a template of like hypocrisy.

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Speaker 3: Suddenly when there's consequences for the court itself, everything goes away.

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Speaker 3: I guess I would just say the other thing that

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Speaker 3: is kind of interesting. I was really struck by how

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Speaker 3: little we talked about the insurrection today. I mean, it

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Speaker 3: was like the biggest admission. I thought it was astonishing

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Speaker 3: that the person who said the sentence you know, yes,

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Speaker 3: it was a riot, quote a shameful, criminal, violent event

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Speaker 3: came from Jonathan Mitchell, Trump's lawyer. Now, like hold on

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Speaker 3: to the fact that he called it criminal, that's kind

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Speaker 3: of useful. But I think that the fact that nobody

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Speaker 3: else wanted to talk about it, and in fact we

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Speaker 3: heard Justice is fretting about like, oh God, are we

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Speaker 3: going to have to adjudicate what insurrections are going forward?

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Speaker 2: Like, oh, that would be awkward.

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Speaker 3: So the fact that, I guess I was really struck

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Speaker 3: by the fact that the argument Colorado was making is

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Speaker 3: of course, this is a case of first impression.

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Speaker 4: Of course there's no case law.

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Speaker 3: Of course this is crazy because we don't have presidents

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Speaker 3: fomenting insurrections a whole lot therefore exigent need for the

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Speaker 3: Court to act, and the Court sort of responding to

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Speaker 3: that with this kind of slightly cowering, Oh, this is

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Speaker 3: a case of first impression, and we don't have any doctrine,

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Speaker 3: and we don't want to be the ones who decide this.

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Speaker 3: And so there's a weird way in which the enormity

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Speaker 3: and singularity of the events of January sixth are the

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Speaker 3: thing that both demand that the Court to be brave

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Speaker 3: and also the thing that the Court is going to

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Speaker 3: hide behind and say this isn't for us to decide.

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Speaker 2: It kicks us back to this idea that we have.

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Speaker 1: At every single point Republicans have taken the opportunity, and

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Speaker 1: not even Republicans everyone, I mean not everyone, but largely

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Speaker 1: most of our institutions have refused to hold Trump accountable.

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Speaker 1: At every point, the Republicans in the Senate, maybe we

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Speaker 1: shouldn't be doing this, this one, that one, I mean,

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Speaker 1: at every point, they really have kicked the can or

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Speaker 1: been too scared to right.

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Speaker 3: Right, it's a huge three dimensional game of checks and

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Speaker 3: balances chicken, right, where everybody is saying like, we don't

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Speaker 3: have to do it, do it through impeachment. And then

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Speaker 3: the Republicans who voted not to impeach, we're like, we

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Speaker 3: don't have to do it, do it through a criminal trial. Right.

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Speaker 3: Then we get to the criminal trial and Trump's lawyers

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Speaker 3: are arguing, you should have done it through impeachment, right,

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Speaker 3: And then Merrick Garland is too slow, and then you

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Speaker 3: know Donald Trump is gaming the appellate system to push

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Speaker 3: this thing to the election. And it just the vibe

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Speaker 3: is very much that like, how did we build this

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Speaker 3: entire infrastructure of checks and balances if nobody wants to

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Speaker 3: check and nobody wants to balance, and nobody wants to

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Speaker 3: put their.

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Speaker 2: Skin in the game.

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Speaker 3: I think that what I would say. And I've been

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Speaker 3: thinking about this a lot, because if I'm right, and

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Speaker 3: the court decides to do the kind of split the

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Speaker 3: baby solemnonic thing where Colorado loses here but Trump loses

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Speaker 3: next week on immunity, and then the court will say,

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Speaker 3: look at how temperate and moderate we are, and then

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Speaker 3: we have to play out how soon can Jack Smith,

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Speaker 3: you know, get that trial done in Judge Tanya Chuckkins

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Speaker 3: Court in DC. It does raise this question of will

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Speaker 3: that be enough?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 3: Like, is that going to be the thing that checks

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump? Where it brings accountability? And here, Molly is

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Speaker 3: where I just get stuck on the My god, we

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Speaker 3: already had a January sixth investigation, we already had an impeachment,

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Speaker 3: we already had, you know, Egene two times we are

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Speaker 3: waiting for. It's like this thing keeps bonking us on the.

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Speaker 5: Head like he did it.

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Speaker 2: He did it, we all saw it.

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Speaker 3: We all saw it, and then we're mad that the

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Speaker 3: next level of accountability didn't happen. But like I keep

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Speaker 3: finding myself asking, what is going to change when either

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Speaker 3: you know, he gets thrown off the ballot, which I

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Speaker 3: guess is not going to happen after today, or what

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Speaker 3: is going to change when there's an actual criminal conviction

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Speaker 3: at the hands of Jack Smith. Are folks going to

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Speaker 3: then say, oh, he is exactly the thing.

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Speaker 2: He purports to be.

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Speaker 3: And when he says he's in turning people in camps

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Speaker 3: and weaponizing the Justice Department against his enemies, maybe we

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Speaker 3: should take him seriously. I think My slight answer to

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Speaker 3: your question is what other thing needs to happen in

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Speaker 3: order to persuade us to hold him to account? And

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Speaker 3: that's the thing that ultimately fails is that we want

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Speaker 3: this like Deis x Mackinna, you know, like to come

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Speaker 3: in a like Congo line and fix it. And I'm

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Speaker 3: just like, it's come, it's come, it's come. We've seen it.

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Speaker 3: So why are we expecting the next thing to change

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Speaker 3: people's minds?

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Speaker 2: It's so crazy.

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Speaker 1: When we say the guardrails have hold, what I think

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Speaker 1: we mean is that they actually haven't held right.

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Speaker 2: I mean in a certain way. I mean, this guy

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Speaker 2: could be president again.

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Speaker 3: He could very well be president again. And I think

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Speaker 3: it's worth recalling that every single time any of these

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Speaker 3: attempts to hold him to account fails, he turns around

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Speaker 3: and says, look, which hunt, Which hunt? You know, it's

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Speaker 3: a conspiracy. I'm going after Hunter Biden or whatever he says.

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Speaker 3: So you know, there's a kind of a slipstream in

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Speaker 3: which he monetizes this and he uses it to say, Look,

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Speaker 3: the system has clearly been weaponized against me, and that's

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Speaker 3: why I'm going to weaponize it against you.

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Speaker 2: I think that.

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Speaker 3: The only thing we can say. I wrote a piece

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Speaker 3: about this a couple of weeks ago, and it made

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Speaker 3: people feel pissy. But it's just like, we just keep

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Speaker 3: expecting one trial, one impeachment, one investigation to be the

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Speaker 3: thing that saves us. And I just think we need

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Speaker 3: to start to take responsibility for the fact that we're

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Speaker 3: just going to have to be the thing that saves

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Speaker 3: us because we're going to just have to vote the

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Speaker 3: shit out of this problem.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what else to say.

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Speaker 3: I think that if the Supreme Court had an opportunity

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Speaker 3: to day to say, this is precisely what the drafters

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Speaker 3: of the Fourteenth Amendment contemplated, and of course it's shocking

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Speaker 3: and scary, and of course it's a huge political move

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Speaker 3: and there are terrible risks involved. But someone's got to

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Speaker 3: kind of pony up and do it like that wasn't

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Speaker 3: what the Court did today, It's not what it's going

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Speaker 3: to do. So I think the question is then, and

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Speaker 3: I think it's a little bit of what you're asking, like,

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Speaker 3: how do we pony up right? Like what do we

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Speaker 3: do in response to this? And I think it just

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Speaker 3: has to be this has to be a route.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it really sounds like I'm really depressed. Let's talk

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Speaker 1: for two more seconds about just the other. There's this

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Speaker 1: immunity case that's going to come up in front of

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court too, which is the king, you know,

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Speaker 1: is Trump king or just a citizen? That probably will

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Speaker 1: get a different response from the Supreme Court.

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Speaker 3: Right. That would be if the Supreme Court cared about

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Speaker 3: its YELP ratings, that's the thing it would do. It

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Speaker 3: would say, Okay, we completely bailed on the Colorado disqualification case,

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Speaker 3: but to pay you back, we are going to affirm

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Speaker 3: the DC Circuit that held entirely reasonably and I would say,

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Speaker 3: unassailably that Donald Trump is not, in fact the king

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Speaker 3: of the world, so I think, and the way the

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Speaker 3: DC Circuit structured its order this earlier this week, the

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Speaker 3: Court has to act very quickly, and the Court will likely,

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Speaker 3: I think, want to act quickly because this is another

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Speaker 3: urgent national election matter, right, it matters hugely. So the

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Speaker 3: question is, really is the Court going to do the

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Speaker 3: same thing it did in this Colorado case, which is,

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Speaker 3: you know, expedited briefing, expedited argument, decide this thing fast

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Speaker 3: enough that this case could presumably, you know, go to

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Speaker 3: trial on some like you know, good timeline rather than

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Speaker 3: the evil timeline when it goes to trial next October.

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Speaker 2: And I think that is an.

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Speaker 3: Easier case for the court to step into because there

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Speaker 3: is lots of case law, there is lots of doctrine,

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Speaker 3: because the DC Circuit so clearly got it right. And

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Speaker 3: the alternative is saying that Donald Trump could order like

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Speaker 3: seal team to come in and execute his political rival.

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Speaker 3: So I just don't think there's a plausible argument that

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump could prevail even with this court.

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Speaker 2: So I think that's probably the way we're going to go.

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Speaker 3: And then I think we're back to your earlier question,

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Speaker 3: which is can this happen in time to affect things?

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Speaker 3: And like that's a time space continual question, it's not

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Speaker 3: a legal question. Oh, those big sides, they reverberate in

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Speaker 3: my ears.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you,

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Speaker 2: thank you. Thanks really a dude, thank you for everything

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Speaker 2: you do.

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Speaker 1: Did you know Rick Wilson and I are bringing together

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Speaker 1: some friends for a general election kickoff party at City

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Speaker 1: Winery in New York on March sixth. We're going to

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Speaker 1: be chatting right after Super Tuesday about what's going on

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Speaker 1: and it is going to probably be the one fun.

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Speaker 2: Night for the next eighty days.

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Speaker 1: If you're in the New York area, please come by

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Speaker 1: and join us. You can go to City Winery's website

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Speaker 1: and grab a ticket. Chris Murphy is the junior Senator

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Speaker 1: from the great state of Connecticut.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to Fast Politics.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: Senator Murfey.

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Speaker 1: You negotiated a border deal, YEP, I did with Lankford.

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Speaker 2: And Kirsten Cinema. Give us two seconds of what.

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Speaker 5: That was like. It's four months of my life that

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Speaker 5: I'm never getting back. A lot of time with two

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Speaker 5: very complicated characters, but I love them both dearly. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: I mean listen to Relegance appointed James Lankford to negotiate

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Speaker 5: this border deal because he's our lner. Maybe I thought

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Speaker 5: he was never going to get a deal. Maybe that

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Speaker 5: was why this ended up happening the way that it happened.

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Speaker 5: But we did get a deal. We spent four months

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Speaker 5: working through every possible way to get the border under control.

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Speaker 5: We found a compromise which includes a lot of good

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Speaker 5: things for immigrants and some expansions of legal pathways, and

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Speaker 5: also contained some real tough tools for the president to

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Speaker 5: stop you know, ten thousand people from showing up every

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Speaker 5: day in an unplanned way at the border.

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Speaker 4: We got that deal.

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Speaker 5: We released the text on Sunday night, and within twenty

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Speaker 5: four hours, Imaga Wright burned it to the ground, and

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Speaker 5: every single Republican that told us they were going to

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Speaker 5: vote for the thing ran for the hills because they

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Speaker 5: decided that they wanted the border to be chaotic, and

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Speaker 5: they couldn't imagine a world in which the border isn't

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Speaker 5: chaotic because that's kind of like their oxygen.

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Speaker 1: It's so interesting because first of all, there has been

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Speaker 1: no border legislation. Right, there was a swing and a

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Speaker 1: miss in twenty thirteen. Right, there hasn't been anything in

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Speaker 1: more than twenty years.

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Speaker 4: Right, yeah, I mean arguably forty years.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's no legislation. Ergo, there's no money. Ergo Ice.

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Speaker 1: Now you'll remember Ice as Donald Trump's favorite group of

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Speaker 1: civil servants. I guess Ice is a civil servant. Sure

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Speaker 1: Ice is now. Ice wanted this deal, right, I.

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Speaker 5: Don't think Ice had in the pigion on the bill.

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Speaker 5: I know there's a lot of acronyms in this world,

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Speaker 5: but the Border Patrol Union, which are the folks who

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Speaker 5: are actually on the border, not the people doing the

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Speaker 5: enforcement in the interior. The Border Patrol Union, which are

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Speaker 5: a super conservative group of cats who have always supported

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Speaker 5: Donald Trump, endorse this bill, as did the Immigration Lawyers Association,

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Speaker 5: which is a pretty progressive group of individuals who represent

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Speaker 5: immigrants every single day. So this was like a true

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Speaker 5: old fashioned DC compromise in which theill some groups on

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Speaker 5: the left support it. So groups of the rights supported it.

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Speaker 5: Democrats were going to vote against it, some Republicans were

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Speaker 5: going to vote against it.

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Speaker 4: We just didn't think that.

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Speaker 5: Every single Republican was going to vote against it, which

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Speaker 5: is essentially what happened.

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Speaker 1: Mike Johnson even before the text so the text wasn't

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Speaker 1: released until Sunday, right yep, nineteen pages released on Sunday,

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Speaker 1: the week before Mike to the Speaker of the House

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Speaker 1: called it dead un arrival.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, And then like that night Senator Mike Lee was like,

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Speaker 5: this is riculous. We need seventy two hours to read this,

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Speaker 5: and like literally three minutes later he was like, this

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Speaker 5: bill is terrible and I've gooing for But if they

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Speaker 5: were not giving this bill a serious look, they didn't

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Speaker 5: sit and have a very nuanced policy focused discussion on

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Speaker 5: the merits of the bill. No, they decide that they

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Speaker 5: couldn't live in a world in which the border was fixed,

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Speaker 5: Like what would they do on the weekends. They couldn't

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Speaker 5: go down to the border and pretend to be border

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Speaker 5: patrol agents and put on camouflage and bring the TV

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Speaker 5: cameras with them. They live for the border being a nightmare,

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Speaker 5: and they wanted to preserve it because that was their

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Speaker 5: only path of victory in November. So I think it's

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Speaker 5: a real political problem for them because I think the

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Speaker 5: whole country has seen that they're not sincere about closing

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Speaker 5: the border, and I think they're going to have to

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Speaker 5: live with the consequences of a bad policy decision and

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Speaker 5: a bad political decision.

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Speaker 1: One of the I think important parts of the story

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Speaker 1: that we did not start on that a lot of

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Speaker 1: our listeners probably know though, is that all of this

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Speaker 1: started because Magarreld decided they would only do foreign aid

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Speaker 1: if Democrats addressed the board correct.

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Speaker 5: So in the fall we try to pass funding for

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Speaker 5: Ukraine militarian assistants in Israel, and the Republicans say, no way.

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Speaker 5: Even though we support that, we are not going to

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Speaker 5: vote for the foreign aid we support unless you get

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Speaker 5: a bipartisan deal on the border. And I ended up

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Speaker 5: being the Democratic negotiator. You know what, Early on, I said,

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Speaker 5: are you sure you want to go down this road?

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Speaker 5: Do you understand that any bipartisan bill that we reach

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Speaker 5: is going to be opposed by Donald Trump?

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Speaker 4: You're ready to go to war with Donald Trump? Really?

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Speaker 5: They said, yeah, we're willing to go to war with

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Speaker 5: Donald Trump. As it turns out they were. We did

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Speaker 5: exactly what they asked. We partnered together border or form.

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Speaker 5: We got the deal with Langford and with Senator McConnell.

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Speaker 5: He was part of our negotiations. And then as soon

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Speaker 5: as they had the chance to combine them both together,

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Speaker 5: they said, never mind, we don't want the border stuff.

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Speaker 5: Put the Ukraine build back on the floor and we'll

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Speaker 5: vote for that. And as you and I are talking today,

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Speaker 5: it looks like we're headed towards passage of the Ukraine

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Speaker 5: funding by itself. We could have done that back in

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Speaker 5: the fall when Ukraine wasn't like losing the war on

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Speaker 5: some days.

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00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 2: So this is just Ukraine, or it's Ukraine Taiwan in Israel.

441
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,480
Speaker 5: Ukraine Taiwan, Israel and humanitarian funding significant. You have ten

442
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,680
Speaker 5: billion dollars for Gaza. So this is not a small package.

443
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 5: It's a big package. Just got a bunch of fentanyl

444
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 5: funding in it. It will be very good when it passes,

445
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,160
Speaker 5: but we could have passed that four months ago.

446
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 1: It passes in the Senate likely because you need sixty

447
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 1: votes and it seems like there's a Susan Collins as

448
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 1: there are people there that are not Tom Kin.

449
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 2: Right.

450
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, we've already passed one procedural vote and fourteen Republicans

451
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 5: joined all the Democrats.

452
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 2: But you still need two more to get to sixty.

453
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,159
Speaker 5: Right on the procedural vote, we've already reached sixty. So

454
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,160
Speaker 5: as long as that group of fourteen Republicans hangs with us,

455
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:02,200
Speaker 5: will pass it in the on file passages.

456
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:05,200
Speaker 1: What we've learned over the last week is that the

457
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,040
Speaker 1: Senate is almost as fucked up as.

458
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 4: The House, but not quite well.

459
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 5: I don't know, it's pretty god to im close right now.

460
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 5: The difference was that the Senate Republicans would occasionally break

461
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,120
Speaker 5: from Trump. Now they've made clear they will not. Right,

462
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,400
Speaker 5: they used to have leadership. I mean the Senate Republicans,

463
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 5: you know, had a pretty strong leader. Senator McConnell, and

464
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 5: I actually do appreciate the role Center McConnell played in

465
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 5: these border negotiations. He was a big part of the team,

466
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,199
Speaker 5: a staff was really excellent to work with. But you know,

467
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 5: he signed off on that border deal and he voted

468
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 5: against it, and he got four.

469
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 4: Republicans voted for it.

470
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 5: So there's a real big leadership crisis in the Republican

471
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:45,439
Speaker 5: Senate caucus right now, which I don't like.

472
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:46,479
Speaker 4: I'm not rooting for it.

473
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 5: It's bad for the country and Democrats and the Senate

474
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,199
Speaker 5: to have this vacuum of leadership in the center of

475
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 5: Republican caucus.

476
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 4: But it does exist. It's real.

477
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wonder. I mean, here's Mitch McConnell. He has

478
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:02,400
Speaker 1: done things for Republicans. You know, keeping that Supreme Court

479
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,120
Speaker 1: seat open is the kind of thing I mean, it's

480
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,719
Speaker 1: hard to imagine a Democrat doing that. I mean, he

481
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 1: really did things that were so incredibly craven and organized.

482
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 2: His reward is basically just nothing.

483
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was nine.

484
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 5: This is a longer conversation, but I do think that

485
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,400
Speaker 5: Mitch mcconaughell, after January sixth, is a different guy. He

486
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,879
Speaker 5: has been more willing to get stuff done after January

487
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 5: sixth I still deeply disagree with him on many many issues,

488
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 5: but he's not the same guy.

489
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,640
Speaker 1: So this will then go to the House of Representatives,

490
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 1: where Mike Johnson enjoys a one vote majority and failed

491
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:47,400
Speaker 1: to pass both a standalone Israel Aid and his own

492
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:51,160
Speaker 1: impeachment of Secretary my Orcus. So the way the House works,

493
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 1: it can't go to the floor because the Rules Committee

494
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 1: is filled with maga.

495
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 2: How can this possibly pass? There?

496
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, a couple different ways.

497
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 5: It could go on something called suspension of the rules,

498
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 5: which allows him to go straight to the floor, but

499
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,879
Speaker 5: he's got to get what two thirds of the votes

500
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 5: that would be part non possible for this package. Or second,

501
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 5: it's got to come to the floor through something called

502
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 5: a discharge petition, which is when a majority of the

503
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 5: members sign a petition, they can force a bill to

504
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 5: the floor even if the majority leader, even if the

505
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:24,959
Speaker 5: Speaker doesn't want it to come to the floor. That

506
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,959
Speaker 5: could be a possibility. Those are both long shots. Admittedly,

507
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 5: you know, the state of the Johnson leadership effort is

508
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,400
Speaker 5: in crisis. Not a great time to have a big

509
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 5: bill like the Ukraine Israel Humanitarian Bill coming over to

510
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 5: the house. But there are a couple narrow pathways to

511
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 5: get it done there. But let's just like admit the stakes.

512
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 5: You and I, you know, sometimes talk about this stuff

513
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:47,640
Speaker 5: as if it's all theater.

514
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 4: It's not.

515
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,440
Speaker 5: This is the future of the world. If Ukraine loses

516
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 5: this war, it literally resets the globe for the next

517
00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 5: one hundred years. It basically tells big nations that they

518
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 5: can invade neighbors and get away with it. And guess what,

519
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 5: Russia will do more of it, China will start and

520
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 5: we will be in a fundamentally different place than any

521
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:15,200
Speaker 5: of us have recognized or known since World War Two.

522
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like if Vladimir Putin is able to

523
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:23,640
Speaker 1: take Ukraine, it will make everything different and it will

524
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 1: put Europe in a terrible position.

525
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 4: It is not certain that Putin will keep going right.

526
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 5: You don't want to sort of assume dominoes all the time,

527
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 5: but history does tend to repeat itself, and once a

528
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 5: country feels that they have the green light. Are we

529
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 5: sure that we would defend NATO if we wouldn't defend Ukraine.

530
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 5: I worry that the Republican Party would be signaling that

531
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 5: they're just out of the business of collective defense, and

532
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 5: you would all of a sudden see a.

533
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 4: World of war.

534
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,360
Speaker 5: It would eventually get the United States dragged in if

535
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 5: not right at the outside.

536
00:27:58,760 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 4: I don't mean to be.

537
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:01,719
Speaker 5: Hyperbolel like, I just I do think there are some

538
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 5: real disaster scenarios if ukraated falls and falls easily because

539
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 5: the United States abandoned.

540
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think about Reagan.

541
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 1: You know, we grew up during Reagan and like the

542
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 1: idea that this Republican Party now, I mean, even Bush,

543
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:19,640
Speaker 1: they were so into nation building.

544
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, there does have to be a smart balance between

545
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 5: overdoing it right, I mean, and recognizing when a clear

546
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 5: line has been crossed. Here, this to me is a

547
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 5: clear line. This is an adversary Russia marching into Europe

548
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 5: of that kind of I thought it had always been

549
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 5: the line we all recognize. You don't have to settle

550
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 5: everybody's problems around the world. I frankly ran as somebody thought,

551
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 5: a lot of the wars we've been engaged in were

552
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 5: pretty ill thought out, whether it be the way in

553
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 5: which we did Afghanistan, the whole mess Interaq. I frankly

554
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 5: almost helped construct the anti Yemen war movement from the

555
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 5: ground up, So I'll hold out my I wore modifies

556
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 5: against anybody's. But Ukraine is worth saving, and I think

557
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 5: that's the way that most Americans feel about it.

558
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, And there are no American troops on the ground,

559
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 1: or very few. This is not the same kind of

560
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 1: war as the Gulf War.

561
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 5: Pretty reasonable investment, right, Ukraine's are not asking us to

562
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 5: fight and die for them. They are asking us to

563
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 5: help pay for them to fight and die. And this

564
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 5: is frankly saving a lot of American lives later.

565
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 1: On, right, One of the things I want you to

566
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about, because it's sort of interesting,

567
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 1: is the way the munitions have been made has been

568
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 1: part of the Inflation Reduction Act, right.

569
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, Well, listen, this has been a big ongoing issue.

570
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 5: You know, we are so relying on a small handful

571
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 5: of weapons and munitions makers to make what we need

572
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 5: and what Ukraine needs that when you have a surge

573
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 5: and demand, it's really hard to meet it. These is

574
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 5: not like back in World War Two when we could

575
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 5: turn one hundred different companies overnight into weapons makers. We

576
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 5: don't have the ability to do that. So, you know,

577
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 5: as I am always very wary of massive investments, in

578
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 5: the defense industrial complex. But it is true that we

579
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 5: have seen a big exposure here of our ability to

580
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 5: keep up with conflict around the world, and we are

581
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 5: going to have to figure out why we have become

582
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 5: so very quickly short changed on the amount of ammunition

583
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 5: that Ukraine needs and make sure that we never get

584
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 5: in this situation again. So I don't know that that's

585
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 5: a big part of the Inflation Reduction Act, but it

586
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 5: is a pretty big effort that's underway generally in Congress

587
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 5: to try to.

588
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 4: Make sure that Ukraine has what it needs now and

589
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 4: to make.

590
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 5: Sure that the future we have redundant capabilities for important

591
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 5: things like ammunition and artillery shells.

592
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: Let's go into the Inflation Reduction Act though for a minute,

593
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 1: because like one of the reasons why Trump was so

594
00:30:55,480 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: panicked about the border was because he sees that this

595
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 1: inflation was transitory and that the economy, while not every

596
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 1: consumer is feeling it, the economy is broadly stabilizing, and

597
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 1: so this would mean that the Inflation Act actually reduced inflation,

598
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 1: that inflation was transittory, likely because of the pandemic and

599
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 1: the supply chain issues, and that Secretary Yellen and Biden

600
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 1: were right.

601
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 5: Most all credible economists said we'd be at a recession

602
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 5: by now.

603
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 2: Except Paul Krugman, right.

604
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 5: And Joe Biden and his team went to work on

605
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 5: the policy is necessary to keep us out of a recession.

606
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 5: People were deeply skeptical that Joe Biden could do that,

607
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 5: but he did. And you saw the job growth rate

608
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 5: last month. It is just stunning how many jobs have

609
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 5: been created under President Biden, more than any other president

610
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 5: in their first term. It is true that Donald Trump

611
00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 5: was hoping that the economy would be in the tank.

612
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 4: It is not.

613
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,719
Speaker 5: It is growing by leaps and bounds. We have structurally

614
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 5: low unemployment. Everybody who wants a job out there can

615
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 5: get one by and large. But there are also other

616
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 5: really important things happening in this economy. One of them

617
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 5: that people didn't see happening either is crime coming down

618
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 5: by stunningly large.

619
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 2: Percentages except in Washington, d s.

620
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 4: Well, but there's always outliars.

621
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I shouldn't have said that, but I gotcha.

622
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 5: But listen, that's what Republicans will say, Well, there's this.

623
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 4: One city where crime is going up. Well, that is true.

624
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 5: You know, crime is going up in New Haven and

625
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 5: it's going up in Washington, but it's not going up

626
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 5: in Hartford, and it's not going up in Bridgeport, and

627
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 5: it's coming way down in Baltimore. But overall, homicides in

628
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 5: our cities have come down by twelve percent since last year.

629
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 5: That is the biggest one year drop in the history

630
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 5: of the country.

631
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 4: So inflation coming down, crime coming down.

632
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 5: Jobs going up, growth going up, that's a pretty good

633
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 5: record for an incumbent president to run on. And it

634
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 5: is true that Republicans said, okay, what do we have left, Like,

635
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 5: let's you know, look onto the Cocona shells. What do

636
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 5: we have to run on? And the immigration? All right,

637
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 5: the border is a mess. Let's run on that. And

638
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 5: we called their bluff.

639
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 4: We said, okay, will agree to some pretty tough.

640
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 5: Changes of the border if you will too, and they

641
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 5: would because they know that they can't run in the economy.

642
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 4: They can't run on inflation, they can't.

643
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 5: Run on a crime.

644
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 4: So they want to run on the border.

645
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:25,719
Speaker 5: And the only way they can run on the border

646
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 5: is to keep the border a mess. But I think

647
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 5: they're not going to get away with I think Americans

648
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 5: are going to know what just happened that they refuse

649
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 5: to fix the border because they want it to do.

650
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 2: And when you talk to constituents you come from very blue.

651
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 1: State, do you feel like they are really seeing what's

652
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: happening or has Ben Shapiro shaped the narratives so much

653
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 1: that and Fox News?

654
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 2: I mean, do you feel like they're informed or not?

655
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 5: I think there's a couple of things happening. One most

656
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 5: of the is, you know, Molly, most Americans are not

657
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 5: plugged in at all. They're just living their lives. They

658
00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 5: don't know what's happening in Washington, and they know what's

659
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 5: happening lives. And people definitely feel that things are better,

660
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 5: but not good enough. People out there are working, Unemployment

661
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 5: is really low, but they're still having trouble saving for college,

662
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 5: and rent is too high, so there's still paying out

663
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 5: there in a very in a very real way.

664
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 4: And so we need to sort of do both right.

665
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 5: We've got to take credit for how much better things are,

666
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 5: but also be cognizant of the fact that that's going

667
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 5: to fall flat with some folks. And then that very

668
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:29,360
Speaker 5: siloed media and information infrastructure is also there are a

669
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 5: bunch of people even in kinetic and in blue kinetic

670
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 5: get all their news from conservative news sources, and really

671
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,319
Speaker 5: do believe that Joe Biden has done nothing to help

672
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 5: the economy. And that's a hard thing to solve for.

673
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 5: But I think people are feeling better. I sense that

674
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 5: back in Connecticut, and I think increasingly they know that

675
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 5: Joe Biden has a lot to do with that.

676
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Senator Murphy.

677
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:50,840
Speaker 4: Thanks Boby.

678
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 1: Matt Fuller is the Washington bureau chief at The Daily Beast.

679
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 2: Welcome back, too fast, politics smaller?

680
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:01,720
Speaker 4: How are you, lolly?

681
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,799
Speaker 2: You know I'm living the dream, so let's talk. I

682
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 2: mean that, of course I wrong. Call you you got.

683
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 2: I don't fucking know what.

684
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 1: It seems to me that the United States House of

685
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 1: Representatives that the Republican who is the Speaker.

686
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 2: Of the House right now, Mike Johnson, does not know how.

687
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:25,840
Speaker 4: To count discuss this is a common affliction for Republican speakers.

688
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 4: He's not the first to be struck by this counting problem.

689
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 4: He had two votes on Tuesday that failed. The first

690
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 4: was this Alejandro mayorchest the Department of homelyan Security secretary impeachment.

691
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 4: This one is maybe less a problem of counting one, two, three, four,

692
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 4: and more that Democrats might have out maneuvered Johnson a bit.

693
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 4: They had votes earlier in the day and they knew

694
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 4: it was going to be close. They knew they were

695
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:53,839
Speaker 4: going to lose three Republicans, but it looked like there

696
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 4: was going to be some dem absences. There's a couple

697
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 4: of Republican absences.

698
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 2: So al Green was having surgery.

699
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 4: Having surgery, but a pretty serious situation, and he came

700
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,240
Speaker 4: back straight from the hospital, Hubert onto the out floor,

701
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 4: would wheeled in and he cast what ended up being

702
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 4: the deciding vote, and they were deadlocked at two fifteen

703
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,880
Speaker 4: to fifteen. They had a fourth Republican vote no, just

704
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 4: for procedural purposes that they can bring it back up

705
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 4: a little easier. But yeah, I'll be It's one of

706
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 4: those things where you start questioning, why are you guys

707
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:24,239
Speaker 4: really bringing this up when you don't have the votes.

708
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 4: I mean, you could bring this up in a week

709
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,799
Speaker 4: or two when Steve Scalice, the majority leader, he's back,

710
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 4: he's currently undergoing cancer treating himself. You could just kind

711
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 4: of spring it on people on a faster day where

712
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 4: it's very clear that Democrats don't have the numbers. They're

713
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 4: expressing confidence that they were going to get it done.

714
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 4: The truth twist, they were counting on Democrats to make

715
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:44,840
Speaker 4: sure they got it done, and that's just never a

716
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:45,719
Speaker 4: gamble you want to make.

717
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 2: So they were counting on Democrats to vote to impeach

718
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 2: my orc As.

719
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,440
Speaker 4: They were counting on Democrats, a few Democrats to not

720
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 4: show up. And right now we're in a situation where

721
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 4: the margin is so close. He basically have three votes

722
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 4: to spare, and if there's one extra dem Apps or

723
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 4: one extra Republican absence, it can mean quite a bit

724
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 4: to the actual margin. I mean again, they were tied

725
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 4: at two fifteen two fifteen, and they lost by one vote,

726
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,359
Speaker 4: and that one vote was really Al Green or really

727
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 4: any other Republican. I mean, you could say Kevin McCarthy resigning,

728
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:15,320
Speaker 4: or George Santos as he did he explicitly said do

729
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 4: you miss me yet? That would have also been the

730
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 4: deciding factor. But they were counting on Democrats to not

731
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 4: show up, particularly Al Green, and when he did, they

732
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 4: were kind of screwed, right, And that is.

733
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 1: Why Marjorie Taylor Green gave this really weird speech where

734
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 1: she said they're hiding members from us. That was what

735
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,240
Speaker 1: she was referring to she was not having a fever

736
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 1: dream they.

737
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:41,280
Speaker 4: Were hiding in the comet ping pong basementner or manning

738
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,279
Speaker 4: back Jewish space lasers or anything. No, she's right to

739
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 4: an extent. Democrats kind of played this one close to

740
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 4: their chest.

741
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:47,840
Speaker 2: Good for them.

742
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, it feels like a move that Nancy Pelosi would

743
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 4: have done. Again. You have Democrats show up to the

744
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 4: first vote, they get account of that, they look at

745
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,359
Speaker 4: the numbers, they say, here's what we can lose. As

746
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:00,399
Speaker 4: long as you know, the same people show up, we're

747
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,359
Speaker 4: going to be good. And then it's just a matter

748
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 4: that Al Green decided, no, you know what, I'm gonna

749
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 4: make it to this vote, and he, for the time being,

750
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 4: saved may Orchis from this impeachment. It's obviously an embarrassing

751
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 4: little situation for Mike Johnston, but it is one they

752
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 4: will rectify at some point. I do expect them to

753
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 4: have the numbers and get you an impeachment at some point.

754
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,320
Speaker 4: But it's just adding to the sort of tactical failures

755
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 4: of Mike Johnson. I mean, right after that vote, they

756
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 4: have Israel Aid. Because Republicans are having these issues with

757
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,840
Speaker 4: their own conference where members are taking down rules. A

758
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 4: rule basically just sets up consideration for the bill. It

759
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 4: usually determines how long they can debate it, how many amendments, whatever.

760
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:45,319
Speaker 4: And they've not been able to adop for many rules

761
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,240
Speaker 4: because it's just a partisant vote. Democrats vote no, Republicans

762
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 4: vote yes. When Democrats are in charge, Democrats vote yes,

763
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 4: Republicans vote no, and the sacredness of the rule kind

764
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 4: of fell apart earlier this year. That happened under Kevin McCarthy,

765
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 4: but it's been a constant pain in their side, particularly

766
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:02,759
Speaker 4: under Mike Johnson, where these Conservatives who are just mad

767
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 4: about everything are voting against rules and taking them down

768
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 4: and basically just taking over the floor. They're blocking consideration

769
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 4: of anything. So you had a bunch of Republicans who

770
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:13,799
Speaker 4: were saying, I'm not voting for an Israel bill that's

771
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,799
Speaker 4: not offset with cuts elsewhere, I will vote down the rule.

772
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 4: You also have the Rules Committee, the actual Republicans on

773
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 4: the Rules Committee who determined this, who might not voted

774
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 4: out of the committee. So that's another hard wrinkle there.

775
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 1: You have a very maga Rules Committee, which was Kevin

776
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 1: McCarthy who set that up.

777
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I mean that was partly to get the speakership,

778
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 4: Kevin McCarthy kind of agreed to putting some of these

779
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 4: hardline members like Chip Roy on the Rules Committee. So

780
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 4: you know, now Mike Johnson's living with that reality and

781
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 4: he's trying to pass bills to just circumvent the Rules

782
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 4: Committee by suspension, which requires two thirds a majority. That

783
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 4: number also changes with how many absences and people show up,

784
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 4: but let's say it's usually around two hundred and eighty votes.

785
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:53,800
Speaker 4: I think they came up with about two hundred and

786
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:55,880
Speaker 4: fifty for the Israel bills, so they are well short.

787
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:58,239
Speaker 4: And that's also going to your point, that's a real

788
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:00,839
Speaker 4: counting problem. There's not really many excuses on that one.

789
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 4: You can say, you know, Democrats out maneuvered Republicans on

790
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 4: the Majorca's impeachment, but the fact that the Israel bill failed,

791
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 4: that that truly is just counting. There's no one hiding them.

792
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 4: So that one that's just a true failure of math.

793
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 1: But also with this Israel bill, the sort of activists

794
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 1: thought the bill was bad and didn't want it to

795
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 1: pass either.

796
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 4: Part of the problem is Republicans are trying to stake

797
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 4: up this position where only Israel passes and Democrats are

798
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 4: on the other side of this saying, well, we're not

799
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 4: going to just do Israel only. Maybe Republicans could force

800
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:34,800
Speaker 4: their hand on this a bit, but they very strongly

801
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 4: want Ukraine and Taiwan as part of that deal with

802
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 4: Israel's aid. If you just passed Israel, it's gonna it's

803
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,400
Speaker 4: gonna get held up. And if you decide that you know,

804
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 4: we're gonna move forward with Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan, then

805
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 4: it's it's gonna go through. And that's the reality that

806
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 4: we're living in now. You can like it or dislike it,

807
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:54,959
Speaker 4: and there's plenty of members who dislike it. But yeah,

808
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 4: I mean, just passing Israel is basically a gambit to

809
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 4: challenge Senate Democrats to hold that up vote no, to

810
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 4: not take up the vote. This afternoon, the Senate looks

811
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:09,839
Speaker 4: like it's fine to pass this sweeping Israel, Ukraine Taiwan bill,

812
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 4: And now you know, the ball is sort of in

813
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,360
Speaker 4: Mike Johnson's court. Is he going to allow that larger

814
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,319
Speaker 4: package to go The fact that he was unable to

815
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:20,320
Speaker 4: pass the Israel only bill makes it more challenging for

816
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 4: him to say, no, we have.

817
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 1: On this episode Chris Murphy, who was also talking to

818
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:27,839
Speaker 1: me about procedurally how this would work. I know this

819
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 1: is West Wing fanfic, but right now Mike Johnson only

820
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 1: has a one vote major.

821
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,240
Speaker 4: I think he's got closer to three. The actual breakdown

822
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 4: is two nineteen to two twelve, which, again, it matters

823
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 4: a great deal if you have an absence or two

824
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 4: on either side, but you're looking at a three or

825
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 4: four vote majority. Again, it depends on how many members

826
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 4: actually show up. That is a very narrow, paper thin majority,

827
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 4: and anytime you have you're relying on, you know, a

828
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 4: few votes. If someone put a motion to vacate on

829
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 4: the floor right now, I'm not sure Mike Johnson would

830
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 4: survive that. He might survive it with some Democrats not

831
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 4: voting again, that would lower the threshold for him. But

832
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,239
Speaker 4: this is a truth that Kevin McCarthy understood. Is the

833
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 4: truth that John Bayner, Paul Ryan, they all understood. The

834
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 4: second that you rely on Democratic votes to hold your position,

835
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 4: you really don't have that position anymore. Every negotiation you

836
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:19,319
Speaker 4: go through, Democrats are going to be holding this over

837
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 4: your head, saying, hey, someone's gonna bring up a motion

838
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 4: to VAK and maybe this time we're not going to care.

839
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:25,839
Speaker 4: We're gonna let it go through. So as much as

840
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 4: Democrats have said, you know, we would protect Mike Johnson

841
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:31,520
Speaker 4: if say, he put Ukraine funding on the floor and

842
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 4: he faced the motion to VAK, which he's had that

843
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,359
Speaker 4: promise from Marjorie Tilergreen that if he does do that,

844
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 4: she will make a motion to vacate against Mike Johnson.

845
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 4: He kind of knows he's living in a very precarious

846
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:45,799
Speaker 4: position here. And you know, yeah, Democrats can say we'll

847
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 4: help you out, we'll vote for you, or well, we

848
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 4: just won't vote and we'll lower that threshold. But the

849
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,240
Speaker 4: reality is again like as soon as you are relying

850
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 4: on democratic votes, it's kind of over for you. And

851
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,439
Speaker 4: again McCarthy also understood this, which is why he didn't

852
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:00,800
Speaker 4: really seek out help from Democrat and that everyone was

853
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:02,800
Speaker 4: always questioning why didn't he go to He keep jeffries,

854
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:04,840
Speaker 4: why you know he's facing this motion of VAKA in

855
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 4: October over a continuing resolution just keeping the government lights

856
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:09,360
Speaker 4: on for a few weeks.

857
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 1: We don't know that he didn't, right, I mean, there

858
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 1: was some talk that he may have. It's just that

859
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,160
Speaker 1: Democrats really hated him by that point because he lied

860
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 1: to them so many times.

861
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 4: We can't dephysically say yeah, but the reporting has been

862
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 4: them from McCarthy and from Jefferies that he didn't do that.

863
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:26,880
Speaker 4: I guess you never quite know the truth, but we

864
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:29,480
Speaker 4: do know no Democrats supported him. You're right, I'm not

865
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 4: sure that even if he had asked, Democrats would help him.

866
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, they really hated McCarthy in a way, they don't

867
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 1: hate Johnson.

868
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,280
Speaker 4: That might be true right now. I think Mike Johnson

869
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,879
Speaker 4: at the moment is sort of a curiosity. No one

870
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:43,719
Speaker 4: really knew this guy very well. He was kind of

871
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:44,760
Speaker 4: a quiet member of Congress.

872
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 1: People liked him, you know, from what I understand. People

873
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 1: thought that he was honest and not a liar.

874
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, he is very quickly developing a reputation as

875
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 4: a liar or really as someone who kind of talks

876
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:58,480
Speaker 4: out of both sides of his mouth. And again, this

877
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 4: is just kind of a reality of governing in a

878
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:05,280
Speaker 4: very slim Republican majority, where you're always trying to appease people.

879
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:09,239
Speaker 4: You're always dealing with today's problems today and worry about

880
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 4: tomorrow's problems Tomorrow. We published Peace that was basically about

881
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 4: the five stages of grief that Mike Johnson is going

882
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 4: through into speakership. And this is true of every Republican

883
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 4: speaker that I've covered for now close to fifteen years.

884
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:26,440
Speaker 4: You always have this major denial phase. That's the one

885
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 4: that really sets up all the other problems because it's

886
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 4: always we're going to get appropriations bills passed, We're going

887
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 4: to get our numbers passed. We're going to pass this

888
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 4: Israel Aid only bill. We're going to force the Democratic

889
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:38,839
Speaker 4: Senate to do this. The President's going to sign our bill.

890
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 4: And they're living in denial, and a lot of the

891
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:43,960
Speaker 4: leaders know that they have to go through the motions.

892
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 4: They have to sort of illustrate to the conference that

893
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 4: they tried. While Republicans really hate is giving in and

894
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 4: not even trying here that complain all the time, what

895
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 4: it leads to is actually setting up expectations that they

896
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 4: can't meet. And Mike Johnson has done that over and

897
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 4: over again, whether that's I'm not going to pass a

898
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 4: CR again, We're not. I'm done with CRS, no more CRS,

899
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 4: no more continuing resolutions, and then he has to rely

900
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 4: on continuing resolution after continuing resolution or we're going to

901
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 4: get major spending cuts. You know, I want to address

902
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:14,839
Speaker 4: this debt. We got to tackle this. And then, of course,

903
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 4: what does that do well, It sets you up for

904
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:19,960
Speaker 4: when it's the same spending bill that was established earlier

905
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 4: in the year by Kevin McCarthy and Joe Biden and

906
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:25,399
Speaker 4: you're adopting those same numbers. Now Republicans are like, wait

907
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:26,879
Speaker 4: a minute, didn't you say we were going to cut

908
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:30,840
Speaker 4: those things. I understand the realities of being the speaker,

909
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 4: which is that you kind of have to tell people

910
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 4: what they want to hear to some extent, and give

911
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:36,840
Speaker 4: yourself room to do what you have to do. But

912
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:39,879
Speaker 4: Mike Johnson has continually stepped on rakes that no one

913
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 4: knew existed and Israel aid and trying to pass that

914
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:48,319
Speaker 4: by suspension. That's a great example. May Orciss. You know,

915
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 4: impeachment has to be on this Tuesday. It didn't have

916
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 4: to be that Tuesday. He could have brought it up

917
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 4: on a day when he knew there was a bunch

918
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 4: of Democrats gone and done it that way. So he's

919
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 4: finding ways to lose that. Kevin McCarthy might have navigated

920
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 4: a little bit better and I think he's at that

921
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:05,280
Speaker 4: point now where Republicans are really starting to get frustrated

922
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 4: with him.

923
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 2: So interesting.

924
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 1: So yeah, you definitely saw a lot of Republicans saying

925
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:14,920
Speaker 1: that this was embarrassing and they were frustrated, and et cetera,

926
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 1: et cetera. Just plays out for me. There's a special

927
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 1: election next week for the Santo seat. We don't know

928
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 1: where that goes. There's polling that's all over the place.

929
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 1: And then there are other specials coming up too, right.

930
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 4: Right there are and again you have Santo's seat open,

931
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,400
Speaker 4: Bill Johnson Ohio, You're going to have Kevin McCarthy seat.

932
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:36,720
Speaker 4: It's going to be a fragile majority. I think Republicans

933
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:38,480
Speaker 4: will hold on to it. Of course, I don't know

934
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:41,680
Speaker 4: that at any point in this in this Congress they've

935
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 4: actually been at full four thirty five. Usually someone dies.

936
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 4: That's kind of a weird thing about Congress too, is

937
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:50,439
Speaker 4: in a body of full of old people, there's usually

938
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 4: a few deaths. So yeah, it's going to be a

939
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 4: precarious majority. The fact is, and this is one of

940
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 4: those things that Republicans don't want to acknowledge that if

941
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 4: you want to actually pass bill that are going to

942
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 4: get signed into law. You're going to have to work

943
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 4: with Democrats. You're not going to pass bills and just

944
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 4: force it down the sentence throat and take Biden by

945
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:11,040
Speaker 4: the hand and make them sign it. That's always been true,

946
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 4: and they've never wanted to acknowledge that. Again, that's that's

947
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 4: sort of the denial phase that they're still in. And

948
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:18,400
Speaker 4: you hear from Republicans time and time again, it's just

949
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 4: so true that you know, why won't he lead?

950
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 1: Right?

951
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:23,080
Speaker 4: I was hearing that so much during Obama, Why won't

952
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 4: he lead? And they're just saying it now they're Republican speakers.

953
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 4: Why will Mike Johnson Lee? Why can't we lead? And

954
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:30,880
Speaker 4: it's just the reality of governing that you have to

955
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 4: work with the other side. They don't have the votes

956
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:36,840
Speaker 4: to just pass messaging bills and force it on the

957
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 4: Senate in some way. And I think may Orcus is

958
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 4: actually a good illustration of this. You have a bunch

959
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 4: of Republicans who are just sort of reactionary, like they're

960
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:49,120
Speaker 4: allergic to saying yes, okay. Tom McClintock was one of

961
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 4: the three real Republican votes to he we went against

962
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 4: may Orcus that guy, there's nothing that says to me, Oh,

963
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:58,120
Speaker 4: you know, he's a principal man on this, and he's

964
00:47:58,120 --> 00:47:59,800
Speaker 4: going to you know, vote against it because of this,

965
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 4: And he's just someone who likes to say no, right,

966
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:05,880
Speaker 4: And Ken Buck is a sort of principal guy who's

967
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 4: you know, in the last stage of his commercial career

968
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 4: and is like thinking about a lot of things and

969
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:12,239
Speaker 4: wondering if this was the right thing or that was

970
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:14,319
Speaker 4: the wrong thing. He's prone to say no too. And

971
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 4: then you have Mike Gallagher, who is more of the

972
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 4: more moderate guys who's basically saying this is terrible precedent.

973
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:21,319
Speaker 4: Guys like can't you see that Democrats are just going

974
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:23,200
Speaker 4: to turn around and start peaching our guys. Those are

975
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:25,880
Speaker 4: all good arguments. The reality is, when you have a

976
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 4: Republican majority full of people who love to say no,

977
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 4: who are actually incentivized by their party basis say no,

978
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 4: you're going to have people who say no relying on

979
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:39,359
Speaker 4: when it comes down to we need everyone to say yes.

980
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:42,880
Speaker 4: That's a really tough proposition and I think, you know,

981
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 4: Mike Johnson is learning that very quickly.

982
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:48,080
Speaker 1: Well, it also seems like the MAGA wing is able

983
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 1: to intimidate people to get what they want.

984
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 2: But the MAGA wing is not very organized.

985
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:59,880
Speaker 1: So like if the MAGA wing had wanted my orcis impede,

986
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:02,839
Speaker 1: I mean they're the closest Republicans have to a vote

987
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 1: whipping organization, right.

988
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, and they are.

989
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:07,399
Speaker 2: They killed that border bill.

990
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:09,879
Speaker 4: Well, that was very quick, and again that was kind

991
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:12,719
Speaker 4: of a systemic opposition because you know, basically, Donald Trump

992
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:14,879
Speaker 4: said I don't want to give Biden a political win,

993
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 4: and as amazing of an explanation as it is, Republicans

994
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:21,399
Speaker 4: bought it, and we're basically repeating it on Capitol Hill

995
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:24,440
Speaker 4: saying we can't give him a political win, which is

996
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:26,799
Speaker 4: you know, again like they're out there yelling about the

997
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:30,280
Speaker 4: crisis at the border, and here's a bipartisan bill addressing

998
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:32,359
Speaker 4: that crisis, and you're saying, I don't want to take

999
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:33,640
Speaker 4: half a loaf, I don't want to take a step

1000
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:36,120
Speaker 4: toward a solution. I want to preserve this vote for

1001
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:39,840
Speaker 4: my president, Donald Trump. But majorcus Yeah, that's a great example.

1002
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 4: The MAGA wing was, you know, forced told that we

1003
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 4: need to impeach this guy. This is part of us

1004
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 4: addressing the crisis. That were even though it wouldn't address anything.

1005
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:50,960
Speaker 4: The Senate is not going to actually uphold this impeachment

1006
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:53,479
Speaker 4: and prosecute him in the Senate with guys like Clay

1007
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:56,480
Speaker 4: Higgins and whatnot. That's not going to happen. But yeah,

1008
00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:58,319
Speaker 4: they're they're trying to get in line. They're trying to

1009
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:01,280
Speaker 4: go after guys like Mike Gallagher. You have this Trump operative.

1010
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:04,920
Speaker 4: Alex Brucewitz announced yesterday he's forming an exploratory committee to

1011
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 4: primary Mike Gallagher.

1012
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:07,799
Speaker 2: Does he even live in Wisconsin?

1013
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:10,880
Speaker 4: ALUs bruce Witz is from rip On, Wisconsin, with the

1014
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:15,239
Speaker 4: good supposed birthplace of the GOP. It is outside of

1015
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 4: the district, but it's not far outside of it. I

1016
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 4: think it's about thirty minutes outside the district.

1017
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 2: This is pretty close.

1018
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's close enough for him to mount a primary

1019
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 4: campaign to some extent. I don't know that he'll eventually run.

1020
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:28,440
Speaker 4: I don't know that he would win. I'm pretty sure

1021
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:30,319
Speaker 4: he wouldn't. But I think the message is clear that

1022
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 4: if you cross the MAGA crowd, we will come after you.

1023
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:36,320
Speaker 4: There will be repercussions, and they are trying to convey

1024
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 4: that message.

1025
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Matt.

1026
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:40,520
Speaker 4: Fuller, thank you.

1027
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:47,800
Speaker 2: No moment Jesse Cannon, h joink Fast.

1028
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:50,759
Speaker 6: Unfortunately, we have to talk about Curtis siewa man who

1029
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:52,920
Speaker 6: is known as living in a three hundred and twenty

1030
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 6: square foot studio apartment with fifteen cats and wearing a

1031
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:57,799
Speaker 6: costume will he arrasses people on the streets in New

1032
00:50:57,840 --> 00:50:59,839
Speaker 6: York in a racist way. What are you seeing here?

1033
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:02,040
Speaker 2: Actually give an opinion here?

1034
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:04,239
Speaker 6: I feel like I've hated this guy for three or

1035
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:04,920
Speaker 6: four decades.

1036
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:07,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was actually going to say that, because we're

1037
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:10,319
Speaker 1: both New York City people, we can attest that we

1038
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 1: both have hated Curtis Ywaw. I've hated him as long

1039
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:17,040
Speaker 1: as I've hated Rudy Giuliani. I mean, he's very much

1040
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:21,400
Speaker 1: of that vintage Curtis Leewa is trying to stage to

1041
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:25,440
Speaker 1: come back. Obsessed with the refugees coming over the border.

1042
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:30,279
Speaker 1: Group found someone claimed that they were a refugee.

1043
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 2: Turned out the guy he was not illegal.

1044
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:37,239
Speaker 1: Again, illegal as you know, a horrible word, but he

1045
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 1: was in fact just a guy from the Bronx who

1046
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:44,279
Speaker 1: spoke Spanish. Curtis Leiwa and his people in ridiculous Red

1047
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:48,000
Speaker 1: Beanies all beat him up. Was on Sean Hattie's show,

1048
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:51,040
Speaker 1: it was in fact not taken down.

1049
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 2: It is still up from the Washington Examiner on x and.

1050
00:51:56,200 --> 00:52:01,600
Speaker 1: So this stupid, racist fuckering is our moment of fuckword.

1051
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:05,840
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

1052
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:09,120
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday to hear the best minds

1053
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:12,360
Speaker 1: in politics makes sense of all this chaos. If you

1054
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:15,160
Speaker 1: enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to a friend

1055
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:18,760
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks for listening.