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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Um, I can't find my daughter. Okay,

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Speaker 1: when was the last time you seen her? We moved

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Speaker 1: here at the part seven, people said that somebody probably

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Speaker 1: somebody's tisker. Okay. How old is she? She's five years old? Okay?

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Speaker 1: And what park are you at here? In Burston Park? Okay?

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Speaker 1: We're at the Burston Park, are you, um, the one

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Speaker 1: with the basketball court where high school is? Okay, so

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Speaker 1: you're at the basketball courts behind high school? Yes, okay.

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Speaker 1: And what was she seen last wearing? She was wearing? Um, um,

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Speaker 1: give me a second, you play with the was on

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Speaker 1: the movies. I don't remember what closer she was wearing,

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Speaker 1: but she was wearing. I just remember what ten she

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Speaker 1: was wearing, like a flower for flowery tens and some

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Speaker 1: heels from white heels. Okay, I'm stand li, I'm I

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Speaker 1: trying to hear to the police. Okay, you said she

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Speaker 1: was five, correct? Yes? All right? Hello ma'am, Hello, Hey,

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Speaker 1: did you see which direction your child went? You know,

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Speaker 1: we were in the car when she came down with

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Speaker 1: my son. They were running to the park, and then

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Speaker 1: me and sister we came down. So when when when

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Speaker 1: we got here? At the park she was in years

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Speaker 1: sisty be that my son was just climbing with ice

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Speaker 1: cream because somebody to his ice cream in the plum.

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Speaker 1: My daughter just went away. The reward for information on

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Speaker 1: the missing five year old little girl Dulse ALIVEAZ who

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Speaker 1: vanishes from a local park has now climbed to fifty

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Speaker 1: two thousand dollars. Where is Dulse? With every day, every hour,

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Speaker 1: literally every minute that passes, the likelihood of bringing this

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Speaker 1: little girl home alive diminishes with me an all star panel.

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Speaker 1: Kathleen Murphy, renowned family lawyer, joining side of North Carolina.

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Speaker 1: Former NYPD John Cardillo, psychologists joining us from Manhattan. Karen Stark,

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Speaker 1: you can find her at Karen Stark dot com. Director

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Speaker 1: of the Coal Case Research Institute and crime scene expert

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCullum. Right now to rate oar online dot COM's

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Speaker 1: Alexis Terres. Alexis, I am very irritated right now because

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Speaker 1: not to name any names, but some headlines are saying

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Speaker 1: five year old girl may have been objected. Look, I

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Speaker 1: don't know who took her, but somebody kidnapped her. Somebody

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Speaker 1: took her. I don't like that insinuation. What the what

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Speaker 1: she ran off and she's living on the riviera and

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Speaker 1: a pair of Neil sunglasses. No, she was taken, Alexis.

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Speaker 1: What's the latest. The latest is that her mother has

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Speaker 1: said she called nine one one in a panic. She

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Speaker 1: was sitting in the park with her with another eight

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Speaker 1: year old relative in the car. She was playing with

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Speaker 1: her little boy her little brother, just steps away from

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Speaker 1: each other to sin a park right the wh wh

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Speaker 1: whoa whoa whoa wa Alexis Terestchuck, investigative reporter, rater online

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Speaker 1: dot com. I hate to take you to school, but

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Speaker 1: she wasn't just a few steps away. I mean, Cheryl

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Speaker 1: McCollum backed me up. Now we know Alexis Tereshchuk is

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Speaker 1: a new mom. Okay, so maybe in her mind thirty

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Speaker 1: yards at some ninety feet away. Cheryl McCollum, now, Alexis Tereshchuk,

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Speaker 1: maybe you're faster than I am. But if a guy

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Speaker 1: pulls up and a reddish colored minivan and waves at

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Speaker 1: the little girl she gets in the car, I really

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Speaker 1: don't think that the mom in a car talking to

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Speaker 1: her eight year old little sisters. I understand who the

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Speaker 1: child was with her two children ninety feet away. I

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Speaker 1: don't think she's that fast. She's not an Olympic sprinter, Sheryl.

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Speaker 1: Not only that, Nancy, where she was sitting in her car,

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Speaker 1: there's like a little heel a mound. She couldn't see

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Speaker 1: over it to see the swings where the children apparently went.

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Speaker 1: She had no field of vision to watch them from

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Speaker 1: where she was. Now another Crack reporter, Jackie Howard sitting

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Speaker 1: here chiming in, has now reported from her quote sources

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Speaker 1: that the mom was scratching lottery tickets. What do you know,

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Speaker 1: alexis terres Chuck. That is what has been reported, that

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Speaker 1: she was not paying attention at all, and that she

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Speaker 1: was scratching lottery tickets. I just am finding this story, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: to be It is hurting my heart so much too.

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Speaker 1: When I look at this picture of this little girl,

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Speaker 1: and I just, after all the stories that we have covered,

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Speaker 1: in everything that you always say, it is really scaring

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Speaker 1: me for her. And I hesitate to say anything about

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Speaker 1: the mom because I'm just afraid that some other people

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Speaker 1: took her. I look at that little face, and there's

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Speaker 1: just something that's really scaring me about this story, you know,

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Speaker 1: the one that gets to me. Karen Stark. I think

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Speaker 1: we need a shrink because Alexis and I Cheryl McCollum,

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Speaker 1: you know, apparently this is just an old hat to

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Speaker 1: her because she doesn't seem to feel a thing. But

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Speaker 1: Karen Star, Alexis is right. I'm looking at the picture

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Speaker 1: of Dulcie with the pigtails way up on top of

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Speaker 1: her head. She is the cutest thing. I just I

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Speaker 1: can't imagine somebody taking this little girl, Karen Stark, And

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Speaker 1: why is it? It strikes us to the heart because

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Speaker 1: she's a little girl, because she's so innocent, because there's

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Speaker 1: no way that she can defend herself. If you think

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Speaker 1: of the story and you imagine what might have happened

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Speaker 1: that this man approached her and offered her a toy.

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Speaker 1: Are somebody that people like this, Men like this are

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Speaker 1: very skilled at being able to attract little children, and

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Speaker 1: so this innocent little girl follows him and hasn't been

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Speaker 1: seen since. And it's hard to imagine that any mother

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Speaker 1: would take her eye off of this child and not

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Speaker 1: have her in her view. It's just the status heartbreaking.

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Speaker 1: It really, it hits all of us, Nancy, because we

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Speaker 1: all know how innocent children are, and we love children,

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Speaker 1: you know. To Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina family lawyer, I

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Speaker 1: kind of resent the headlines that Dulsie may have been kidnapped.

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Speaker 1: She was kidnapped. Now, I don't know who did it

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Speaker 1: or for what reason, but this child was taking Kathleen.

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Speaker 1: Why are they saying that? And I don't like aspersions

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Speaker 1: cast on the mom right now because there have been

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Speaker 1: times I've had the children at the playground, not ninety

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Speaker 1: feet away from me, but at the playground and I've

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Speaker 1: had to go back to the car and get bottled water,

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Speaker 1: or I've been sitting on a bench and I looked

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Speaker 1: at my look down to work onto my iPad while

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Speaker 1: they're playing. So I'm not gonna steam the mom. I'm

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Speaker 1: not gonna boil her in the hot water because she

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Speaker 1: was scratching a lot of tickets. But I do think

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Speaker 1: ninety feet was too far away to be Why are

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Speaker 1: the headlines saying that, Kathleen Murphy. To me, it's very

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Speaker 1: clear that they've identified some person of interest in regards

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Speaker 1: to being at the park at the same time. It

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Speaker 1: was a red van, I believe. So it's clear to

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Speaker 1: me like it is to you, that this child has

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Speaker 1: been taken and now we learn the entire narrative is changing.

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Speaker 1: The witnesses who claim they see a Hispanic man with

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Speaker 1: acne scars on his face lure Dulce into a reddish

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Speaker 1: color van or minivan. Now there's a whole different story emerging.

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Speaker 1: Climb stories with Nancy Grace. The police have now issued

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Speaker 1: an amber alert. They say they have reason to believe

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Speaker 1: that she was abducted. These are the last images of

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Speaker 1: Luce Madia before as she vanished. She wore a yellow

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Speaker 1: shirt with a Koala bear on the front, black and

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Speaker 1: white pants, and white sandals. Police also have the description

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Speaker 1: of the man who is believed to have abducted her

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Speaker 1: from the bridget In City Park. They say he is

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Speaker 1: light skinned, about five six to five eight, a thin billed,

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Speaker 1: no facial hair, acne on his face, wearing orange sneakers,

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Speaker 1: possibly Nike, red pants, and a black shirt. Police say

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Speaker 1: this mystery man led Luce from the playground to a

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Speaker 1: red van with a sliding door and tinted windows. She

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Speaker 1: was seated in the back by that man and then

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Speaker 1: he drove off around four twenty. That would be just

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Speaker 1: minutes after her mother last saw her. You were hearing

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Speaker 1: ABC Action News reporter Jeanette Ray. Yes, but white a minute.

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Speaker 1: They narrative as now drastically changing. Take a listen to this.

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Speaker 1: You didn't see anyone else around there that she could

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Speaker 1: p possibly have went with. No, not no that I

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Speaker 1: know because we saw one. There's just some other people

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Speaker 1: that they're here that said that they saw her running

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Speaker 1: running through through some houses in the back. And they

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Speaker 1: said that they saw two firs. They saw two men

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Speaker 1: they all black guy and they saw Mexican man with

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Speaker 1: two kids. They who's saying that they saw them? But

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Speaker 1: there's people here in the basketball courts that they saw her,

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Speaker 1: they saw her listings. They're saying that there's people they're

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Speaker 1: at the basketball court that they saw her running through

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Speaker 1: some houses with two black males. She light skin, Spanish?

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Speaker 1: What color top does she have on? Um? I don't remember. Okay,

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Speaker 1: are you at the basketball court? Yes, I'm right here

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Speaker 1: right now. She's that's the firm. She says that she's

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Speaker 1: at the basketball court. And do you have your son

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Speaker 1: with you? Or is your son? No, I have my

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Speaker 1: son with me. They said. Um. He was crying on

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Speaker 1: the sounds. He was just standing their crimes. He was

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Speaker 1: standing their crimes. Okay, So which is it? Is it

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Speaker 1: a Hispanic male with acne scars on his face, short

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Speaker 1: mail getting her into a red, a reddish colored van

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Speaker 1: or a minivan? Or is it a black male with

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Speaker 1: a Hispanic man with two kids? Or is it two

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Speaker 1: black males running with Dulcie? Listen to this. He said

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Speaker 1: that the black males took his ice cream. No, they

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Speaker 1: threw it in the floor. They took his ice cream

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Speaker 1: and throw it on the floor, and then they left

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Speaker 1: with your daughter, probably because I didn't saw it when

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Speaker 1: we came in and looked for her. We were looking

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Speaker 1: everywhere for her, was at the basketball court with her daughter.

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Speaker 1: That there was two black mails that took her son's

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Speaker 1: ice cream and threw it on the ground and left

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Speaker 1: with her daughter. Okay, well we have the officers, are

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Speaker 1: you on, Mayor aikin Um? I already have an officer here. Okay,

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Speaker 1: all right, well speak with the police, may I'm okay, Okay,

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Speaker 1: which one is it? Did sheer On McCallum, director of

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Speaker 1: the Cold Case Research Institute. I am not saying the

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Speaker 1: mom is involved in this. Let's just be clear about that.

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Speaker 1: But do you remember when Susan Smith insisted it was

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Speaker 1: an African American male. I was still in the courtroom

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Speaker 1: at that time, and I was trying to case alone,

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Speaker 1: but I think I was being threatened with the contempt

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Speaker 1: of court again. And my friend, who is now a judge,

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Speaker 1: Herman Sloan, came into the courtroom with a stack of

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Speaker 1: appellot books to try to save me. God bless him.

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Speaker 1: And somebody showed me the sketch of who allegedly took

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Speaker 1: Susan Smith's children, and I said, Herman, where were you?

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Speaker 1: It looked just like herman. So he died laughing. I'm like, hey, hey,

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Speaker 1: don't laugh too much, Herman. So now we hear just

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Speaker 1: is this muddle of confusion. We've got a Hispanic man

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Speaker 1: with acne that lures her into a reddish colored van

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Speaker 1: or minivan. Now we've got a Hispanic mail and an

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Speaker 1: African American mail. Now I've got two African But remember

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Speaker 1: before we blame this all on the mom. She's relaying

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Speaker 1: what people on the basketball court are telling her. It

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Speaker 1: is my understanding, Cheryl, she reay because she didn't see it.

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Speaker 1: So here's the issue. This is why people are concerned,

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Speaker 1: and this is why law enforcement is, you know, running

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Speaker 1: down every lead in every avenue, because she starts looking

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Speaker 1: for her daughters, supposedly for ten or fifteen minutes. When

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Speaker 1: she can't find her, she doesn't call the police, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: She calls her brother. After another thirty or forty minutes,

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Speaker 1: then they called the police. So now an hour has

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Speaker 1: passed with this child, Missy. There's not a mama that's

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Speaker 1: gonna tell you that would ever happen. We've all heard

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Speaker 1: your story when you couldn't find John David and Target

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Speaker 1: for thirty seconds and you wanted the whole place lockdown,

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Speaker 1: so an hour and you didn't see it, and your

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Speaker 1: best witness is a crying three year old. We have

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Speaker 1: flagn all over creation that you've got to verify. She's

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Speaker 1: claiming now again, when she calls nine one one, she's

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Speaker 1: not begging for help. She's not demanded that they hurry,

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Speaker 1: she's not demanded that they find her. And she never

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Speaker 1: says it's some man. She says somebody, someone, not even

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Speaker 1: a gender. So there's lots of concerns here for me.

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Speaker 1: Well quote, somebody probably took her. Okay, I understand John Cardillo,

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Speaker 1: former NYPD is chopping at the bit jump in, John, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't believe in where this mother says, So I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna come out and say she needs to be the

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Speaker 1: primary suspect right now. If you if you go back

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Speaker 1: to be cases, the well known case of the child

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Speaker 1: abduction and many of the men did terribly go back

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Speaker 1: to the Polyclass case many years ago. If you look

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Speaker 1: at the fact pattern of that case and the evidence,

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Speaker 1: her dad mark class, and her mom remembered minute details.

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Speaker 1: They could have told you which way her bangs were

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Speaker 1: hanging that morning, to the right or to the left,

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Speaker 1: the pattern polyester to cotton, composition of her clothing. It

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Speaker 1: defies all reason. The mom doesn't know what color pants,

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Speaker 1: Oh maybe flowered, maybe black and white. I don't remember

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Speaker 1: what color shirt. I don't really know where they were.

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Speaker 1: They threw my son's ice cream on the floor. I've

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Speaker 1: not heard a less believable story from an alleged complaining victim.

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Speaker 1: And I work these specific cases quite a bit with

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Speaker 1: the National Center for Missing and Exploded Children. Read a

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Speaker 1: lot of nine one one transcripts. Nancy, if I were

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Speaker 1: the investigator here, the mom would be my primary primary suspect.

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Speaker 1: Nothing about this fact pattern or the timeline makes any

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Speaker 1: sense whatsoever. We'll take a listen to what ABC six

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Speaker 1: Philadelphia reporter John Rawlins says. The plight of the missing

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Speaker 1: girl is on people's minds a lot, really, and our

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Speaker 1: churches constantly talk about him, prayingport that safety for the

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Speaker 1: little girl's messed up. Man, Like you gotta look at

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Speaker 1: the prospective, like if it was hit child, how would

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Speaker 1: you fail? People were boggled by this, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean. It's it's mind blowing the fact that he

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Speaker 1: had a mother and two little kids and where did

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Speaker 1: she go. Officials again are asking people with cell phone

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Speaker 1: images from the park at the time of the abduction

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Speaker 1: to upload those images to the FBI the hope a video,

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Speaker 1: say an athletic event, might include someone or something in

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Speaker 1: the background that could aid investigators. The FBI used such

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Speaker 1: uploads investigating a missing child in North Carolina in twenty

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Speaker 1: eighteen and the Boston bomber case in twenty thirteen. So

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Speaker 1: with that in mind again, authorities are urging anyone who

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Speaker 1: might have video from here in the park in Bridgeton

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Speaker 1: between three and six pm on Monday, September sixteenth, that's

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Speaker 1: the time period where the little girl dell Say went missing,

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Speaker 1: to please upload that video if you can crime stories

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Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Nothing is one hundred certainty until we

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Speaker 1: find us. Despite limited answers, we are still learning new

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Speaker 1: information about the moments after duels. Say and her family

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Speaker 1: stopped for ice cream on that warm Monday. She and

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Speaker 1: her three year old brother Rando the swings. They were unsupervised,

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Speaker 1: and in less than ten minutes, no one emergency. Um,

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Speaker 1: I can't find my daughter. Okay, what was the worst

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Speaker 1: any seener we moved here at the fourteen People said

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Speaker 1: that somebody probably somebody's from Bridgeton City Park. This nine

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Speaker 1: one one call rang into police from the girl's mother. No,

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Speaker 1: Emma dn't see anyone else around there that she could

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Speaker 1: possibly have went with. This are black guy and this

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Speaker 1: Mexican man, and police later learned only one man took Dulsay,

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Speaker 1: not two. That's one of the reasons why there was

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Speaker 1: a delay in the Amber alert, because I'm sure that's

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Speaker 1: going to be one of your questions is that we

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Speaker 1: have to vet that information. We have to verify that

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Speaker 1: information through interview, interviewing the witness by law enforcement. Also

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Speaker 1: at the center of that Amber alert was a red

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Speaker 1: van whose driver has yet to be identified. I am

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Speaker 1: not wed to the red vehicle. The witness that gave

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Speaker 1: us that information is a child of tender years. I

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Speaker 1: will not discount it. I will not ask the public

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Speaker 1: to disregard it. Wow, you are hearing the very latest,

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Speaker 1: including NBC ten reporters Sydney Long. Guys. Where is Dulce.

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Speaker 1: I'm looking at a picture right now of her and

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Speaker 1: something that John Cardillo, former NYPD said has really struck

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Speaker 1: a nerve. Alexis ures Chuck, I can tell you right

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Speaker 1: now what the twins have on. It was a special

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Speaker 1: day at school today and they're having all day games

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Speaker 1: to celebrate a Saint. Okay, and he John David has

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Speaker 1: on black Champion shorts that come down to about his knees.

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Speaker 1: He has on red Adidas shoes, and he's got on

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Speaker 1: black socks. It's a fashion felony, I know this. And

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Speaker 1: he's got a T shirt that the school gave him.

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Speaker 1: Lucy has got on black Nike shorts with white trim

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Speaker 1: that she wore in her volleyball as her volleyball suit.

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Speaker 1: She's got the same T shirt. Her hair is parted

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Speaker 1: in the middle, she has on no socks, and she

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Speaker 1: has on white tennis shoes. Not a major brand, but

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Speaker 1: with red and white stripe down the side going vertically.

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Speaker 1: John David's hair is not parted in any particular way.

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Speaker 1: I suggested to him in the car that he parted

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Speaker 1: left to right. That didn't happen. He took it and

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Speaker 1: combed it straight down, straight down. It's not a good look,

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Speaker 1: but that's what he does. Okay, I can tell you exactly.

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Speaker 1: I won't go into it because they may hear this

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Speaker 1: one day, Bimbares. I even know what underwear they had

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Speaker 1: on because I laid it out for him last night.

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Speaker 1: All right, Okay, hers are purple and his are blue.

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Speaker 1: There I said it, So I'm concerned this mom. Even

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Speaker 1: I know what Dulcie was wearing. Shed I'm looking away.

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Speaker 1: I'm not even looking at a picture Jackie. Yes, yes, Now,

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Speaker 1: she had on long black and white checked tights. They

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Speaker 1: may be a thin cotton or on some kind of nylon.

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Speaker 1: She had on a short sleeve yellow shirt that came down,

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Speaker 1: you know, mid thigh, a little higher than mid thigh,

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Speaker 1: and it has a white panda or koala bear on

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Speaker 1: the front. And she looks like she has on socks.

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Speaker 1: I can't totally tell that, but she has on little heels,

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Speaker 1: like little girl heels, and they look to be of

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Speaker 1: a light color, and her hair is partially pulled back.

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Speaker 1: That's what I recall without looking. Yeah, okay, that's right.

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Speaker 1: And she's precious. And and here's another thing. There's a

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Speaker 1: photo of her at crime online dot com wearing this outfit.

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Speaker 1: Because you keep hearing about an ice cream just before

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Speaker 1: she goes missing, they were at a gas station, a

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Speaker 1: Snowco gas station, and that's where they got ice creams

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Speaker 1: hers coconut. Now that concerns me that the mom didn't

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Speaker 1: know those details. Explain Alexis, Well, the mom had to

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Speaker 1: me some very panicked and she couldn't remember it. You're

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Speaker 1: exactly right. She when the police officer asked her that nine.

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Speaker 1: When one operator said what was she wearing, she says,

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Speaker 1: I don't remember. She can't remember anything. And she is

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Speaker 1: telling her though. She says to the operator, a black

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Speaker 1: man and a Mexican man are the two men that

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Speaker 1: people around here are saying may have taken her. The

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Speaker 1: operator then there, you know, it's a frantic situation, talks

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Speaker 1: over her. They talk over each other, then says it

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Speaker 1: as two black men. Then the story changes to it's

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Speaker 1: one Hispanic man and he has acne scars on his face.

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Speaker 1: So it went from two men, no idea, and then this,

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Speaker 1: but you know the little boy, her little brother, who's

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Speaker 1: only three years old. When it first happened, he was

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Speaker 1: pointing towards buildings, say, you know, pointing that's where she went.

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Speaker 1: That's where she went. Then the story changes too, she

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Speaker 1: got in the van and went away when they talked

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Speaker 1: to some older people. So there are a lot of

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Speaker 1: conflicting stories on this, but you're right the mom did

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Speaker 1: not know what her little girl was wearing. Cheryl McCollum,

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Speaker 1: have you made sense out of the various stories? Me?

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Speaker 1: I's the one thing that concerns me is when mom

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Speaker 1: says the little boy's ice cream fell on the floor,

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Speaker 1: she repeats the floor. They were there, They were outside,

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Speaker 1: It should have been grounds. So this leads me to

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Speaker 1: think was there in situation with the ice cream that

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Speaker 1: fell on the floorboard of the car or the floor

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Speaker 1: inside their house? It sounds like they were inside, not outside.

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Speaker 1: That concerns me. Again, everything that comes out of this

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Speaker 1: woman's mouth. I want to believe her, I can't. She's

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Speaker 1: not given me any reason to believe her. You don't

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Speaker 1: know what she's wearing. You never use her name, you

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Speaker 1: never ask for help, You part far away. Our best

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Speaker 1: witness is a crime three year old and some child

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Speaker 1: that describes somebody that even the police don't believe that

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Speaker 1: she was there. The video of her getting ice cream

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Speaker 1: is the last time we have her own film. Did

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Speaker 1: nobody else at the park took a picture as a video?

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Speaker 1: Nobody own a camera or you know, a surveillance camera. Hazard,

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Speaker 1: They can't verify she was ever in that. John Cardillo

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Speaker 1: from an NYPD sounds like you and Cheryl McCollum in

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Speaker 1: the same boat. Yeah. Absolutely, That's one of my issues

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Speaker 1: as well, Nancy. I'm not sure the child was ever

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Speaker 1: in the park because we live in a surveillance state

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Speaker 1: right now. I mean, I've got ring doorbells on my

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Speaker 1: front door, the front gate. Go one on the front

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Speaker 1: gate to my house. I've gone on the front door

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Speaker 1: to my house behind the gate, and then I've got

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Speaker 1: on my garages in the back of my house. I've

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Speaker 1: got one there as well, And I would say eighty

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Speaker 1: percent of my neighbors have that ring doorbell or another

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Speaker 1: brand of video doorbell. I mean, you really can't go

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Speaker 1: anywhere today without some surveillance camera capturing something. But again,

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Speaker 1: like Cheryl, I see no evidence that the child ever

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Speaker 1: made it to the park. That's my main concern. And

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Speaker 1: what do we really have with the mom's description. Well,

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Speaker 1: maybe these people exist, maybe they don't, But we have

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Speaker 1: right now perfectly legal behavior by other individuals. Maybe there

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Speaker 1: was a black and hispanic man walking through the park.

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Speaker 1: That's legal behavior. There was a red van park down

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Speaker 1: the street, that's legal behavior. So in and of itself,

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Speaker 1: sure the police have to run those leads down. But

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Speaker 1: even the witnesses, and I use that term loosely, aren't

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Speaker 1: alleging even criminal behavior by other people that may have

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Speaker 1: been in the park, just the mere fact that they

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Speaker 1: have to be eliminated because they may or may not

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Speaker 1: have been there. But again, I have suspicions that the

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Speaker 1: kid ever made it to the park itself. To Kassley Murphy,

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Speaker 1: North Carolina family lawyer, way in Nancy, there's an eight

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Speaker 1: year old that was apparently with this mother, and I

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Speaker 1: have not heard anything about what this eight year old

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Speaker 1: is saying and whether they were actually in the parking lots,

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Speaker 1: whether the kids were with them, But it is concerning

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Speaker 1: to me that nothing, absolutely nothing has come from this

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Speaker 1: mother that's been helpful. You are analyzing this in a

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Speaker 1: completely different vein. I'm just wondering, are we attacking the mom?

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Speaker 1: We need to attack somebody, and we don't know which

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Speaker 1: way to go with it or our Cheryl McCollum and

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Speaker 1: John Cardillo are absolutely righten crime stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: Additional video of Dulce alivez released by her mother via

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Speaker 1: a family friend, the playful five year old mugging to

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Speaker 1: a cell phone camera, apparently just days before her abduction.

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Speaker 1: Authorities not releasing any official information today. Earlier this week,

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Speaker 1: the FBI had been working on a face to face

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Speaker 1: meeting with Dulce's father, who lives in Mexico. It's not

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Speaker 1: clear if that meetup has taken place. This afternoon, Dulce's

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Speaker 1: maternal grandmother was putting up more missing posters near her

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Speaker 1: home in Bridgeton. Dulce was last seen by her mom

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Speaker 1: at this Bridgeton playground September sixteenth, at this nearby zoo. Today,

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Speaker 1: people some with your kids and grandkids, talked about the

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Speaker 1: now days long search. I just think it gets a

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Speaker 1: little more tragic the longer goes. You know, it's just

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Speaker 1: pretty sad. Really, this mother told us she thinks authorities

425
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 1: and maybe some of the little girl's own family knows

426
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 1: more than it's being said publicly. She says she follows

427
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 1: the story via social media every day. I'll keep posted

428
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:29,119
Speaker 1: on all the news channels. Everybody that's posting something. I

429
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 1: try to cheap updates. I want to know where she is.

430
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 1: I want to know. I want to know where she

431
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 1: is too. You were just hearing ABC six Philadelphia reporter

432
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 1: John rawlins everyone fixated on the search for Dulce Alavez,

433
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 1: a five year old girl who goes missing, apparently from

434
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 1: a local park. The Bridgeton part. The reward for information

435
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 1: about this little New Jersey girl who vanishes has now

436
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:58,639
Speaker 1: climbed to fifty two thousand dollars and a Facebook post

437
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 1: in the last hours in New Jersey. State police say

438
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:05,239
Speaker 1: it the police who don't make half of what they

439
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:09,920
Speaker 1: should make for what they do. They are contributing ten

440
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 1: thousand dollars to the reward as the search goes on,

441
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 1: and in addition to that from the state police, the

442
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:22,880
Speaker 1: Philadelphia Lodge Number five Fraternal Order Police more police donating

443
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: five thousand dollars. Two other donations for a thousand dollars

444
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 1: were added to the reward. Now we're learning this from

445
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 1: the Bridge to Police department. What happened to Dulcie Police

446
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 1: Chief Michael Gamieri Sor says that investigators have gathered a

447
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 1: substantial amount of information, but still no Dulce. Now we've

448
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 1: also heard that police believe the child is still alive.

449
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 1: Why John Cardillo, former NYPD, why would they say that

450
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 1: they might be approaching this now as a custodio interference case.

451
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 1: The FBI wants to meet with the dad in Mexico,

452
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,439
Speaker 1: so they might possibly have of it is that members

453
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: of the paternal family or a member of the paternal

454
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 1: family might have just taken the little girls with them.

455
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 1: And if that's the case, then she's not in danger.

456
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 1: This might become a criminal slash civil situation. Can write

457
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 1: a custody case and it would still be a criminal

458
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 1: abduction in most places. But that I mean, let's hope

459
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,679
Speaker 1: that's the case, because then her safety isn't in question.

460
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 1: Then it just becomes a legal issue. But that's my suspicion.

461
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: With the with being released in limited fashion. Right now,

462
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: we'll take a listen to what ABC six Philadelphia reporter

463
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,160
Speaker 1: John Rollins says, well, the investigation continues to grind on here,

464
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 1: and the authorities make it a point that it is

465
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 1: still a wide open investigation. Pretty much nothing is off

466
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 1: the table at this time. We were told the FBI

467
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 1: has spoken by phone with the little girl's father. He

468
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 1: lives in Mexico. The hope is at some point soon

469
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 1: they will be able to have a face to face

470
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 1: talk with him to try to see if he can

471
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 1: shed any light on what happened to the little girl.

472
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 1: Authorities say they continue to operate under the premise that

473
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 1: the little girls seen here getting ice cream, Dulse Alivez

474
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 1: is still alive. They say they will continue to treat

475
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 1: her disappearance as a missing person until evidence indicates otherwise.

476
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: For more than a week, a small army of investigators

477
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 1: have searched the Bridgeton City Park where Dulce was last seen.

478
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 1: Others not seen. Are in the process of collecting terabytes

479
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 1: of data from cell phone communications, along with video from

480
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 1: multiple cameras, including those on school buses and police vehicles.

481
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 1: The Prosecutor's office said video of a red vehicle recently

482
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 1: broadcast had been investigated and determined not involved in the abduction.

483
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 1: You know, I'm looking at news alerts as late as

484
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 1: just yesterday and they're still talking about the red van

485
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 1: and describing the Hispanic mail with black hair and acne scars.

486
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 1: I just it's so much information as being disseminated. Alexis

487
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: terres check. How we now learn they've ruled out the

488
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 1: red minivan or is it still a possibility. While the

489
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 1: investigators have said that they found a they researched it,

490
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: they investigated it, and there's this one band that was

491
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 1: ruled out, but that is still out there. And what

492
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 1: they said from the very beginning was that what the

493
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 1: authorities said it was a tender age person. So it's

494
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 1: obviously the little boy, the little brother who's just three

495
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 1: years old, and you know, a three year old red

496
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: blue green. They know their colors, but under questioning, they

497
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 1: might not be able to get it said correctly. So

498
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 1: this was something that I think that they were very

499
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 1: hesitant to say from the very beginning. There's never been

500
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 1: a license played or anything identified with that, so they

501
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 1: have pretty much ruled this out. I know they looked

502
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 1: at over five hundred reddish tinted vehicles. Cheryl McCollum nathy.

503
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 1: They've checked every red vehicle, not just vans. They have

504
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 1: searched by foot, by boats, they used infrared technology on

505
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: a helicopter. They've used dive teams, but sonar canines they

506
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 1: brought in the FBI. They have done everything possible to

507
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 1: find this child. And again this point for me and

508
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 1: this investigation, Mama needs to take a polygraph. Okay to you,

509
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 1: Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina family lawyer. The dad is in Mexico,

510
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 1: all right, and police are not going down there. That

511
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 1: tells me they don't believe the dad's involved. He's not involved.

512
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 1: I mean, they have him on like a bust the

513
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: video phone, and they know he's in Mexico, and I

514
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 1: can guarantee he's probably not got connections to be able

515
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,959
Speaker 1: to transport this child. Take a listen to ABC Action.

516
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 1: He's reporter Maggie Kent. Now, state and local police are

517
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 1: joined by the FBI Child Abduction Division. As the search continues,

518
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 1: so does a criminal investigation. If the child wandered away,

519
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 1: time is of the essence. Obviously, If there's something foul

520
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: play amiss, time is also of the essence. The professional

521
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 1: search crews are utilizing every tool available in the air,

522
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 1: on the ground, and underwater, and strangers are stepping into help.

523
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 1: I thought I'd come down and just walk and look

524
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 1: and see what I could do. But I could see

525
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 1: this as a difficult search. I'm very concerned about this

526
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 1: little girl, and I pray to God that she's found shortly.

527
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 1: We just got an update from police lesson in an

528
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 1: hour ago, who say they have to use canines to

529
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: search with this little girl's mother's car, which is still

530
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 1: parked in this parking lot right near the playground where

531
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 1: she went missing. They've also searched the family home. The family,

532
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 1: they say, has been more than cooperative. Although the FBI

533
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 1: Child Abduction Unit is here, there are no clues to

534
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 1: indicate that Dulce was abducted. Did you hear that? Did

535
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 1: you hear that? John Cardillo from her NYPD no clues

536
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 1: to suggest she was abducted. What about what all the

537
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 1: witnesses are saying, Well, you only don't have any credible witnesses,

538
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 1: right I man, we've been saying, And you've got little kids,

539
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 1: You've got the mom who is suspected as diagramming with

540
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 1: Cheryl has said mom needs to take a polygraph, but

541
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 1: I would look at dad's family. Let's face it, howeverus

542
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: lies it. This is not the most attentive nurturing mother. Okay,

543
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 1: I think we've established that. No matter how this cake

544
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 1: shakes out. I mean, you're ninety yards it was the

545
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: thirty yards away. I don't let my dog get thirty

546
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 1: yards away if I walk them off Policiana Park. You

547
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 1: don't let your little adorable five year old get ninety

548
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 1: feet away. I mean, that's just ridiculous. And so maybe

549
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 1: the dad's family, there might be an aunt, there might

550
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 1: be a grandmother, there might be an uncle who saw

551
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 1: signs of neglect. Now we don't know that. But my

552
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 1: point is we have no evidence in this case. There's nothing,

553
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 1: no evidence of abduction, not a bow and her hair

554
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 1: left on the ground, nothing. So the police are definitely

555
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 1: definitely looking at the mom. But at the same time,

556
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 1: they know the dad was in Mexico. Sure we can

557
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 1: rule him out, but now they're looking at this he

558
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 1: a family here was we're Child and Family Services ever

559
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 1: called to this home. That's gonna be a big indicator

560
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: if we get that data point we find out that

561
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 1: they were. I could have been a family friend, it

562
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: could have been anybody for any reason. But I do,

563
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 1: just in my gut, I do feel the police are

564
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 1: on the right track when they say they feel she's

565
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:14,439
Speaker 1: still alive. I do as well. Karen Stark psychologists joining

566
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 1: us out of Manhattan. You can find her at Karen

567
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 1: Stark dot com. Karen, why do you believe people are

568
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,399
Speaker 1: attacking the mom? It's because we don't know where else

569
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,240
Speaker 1: to turn. Well, that may be part of it, Nancy,

570
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 1: but there's also the fact that it took so long

571
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 1: to get in touch with the authorities. I mean, I

572
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 1: think that the story which you've told about John David

573
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 1: is very indicative of what a parent would do. I

574
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 1: can't imagine a mom having this child disappear she didn't

575
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 1: remember what she was wearing, but not getting in touch

576
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:52,760
Speaker 1: with the police immediately when her child isn't there, calling

577
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 1: her brother. That does not ring true to me. I

578
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 1: don't understand it. Well, it's ters Radar online dot com

579
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 1: Investigate reporter. What more do you know? I want to

580
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 1: tell y'all that the other day I was at a

581
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 1: corn maize. We have huge pumpkin hatches out here in California,

582
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 1: and my little boy, who's five and his best friend, Mackenzie.

583
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,359
Speaker 1: They ran into the corn maize together. The other mom

584
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 1: and I followed. We could not find them. We were

585
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,879
Speaker 1: calling their names, calling, calling, calling, We went deeper into

586
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 1: the corn maize. The other mom said, I'm going to

587
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 1: turn around and I'm going to go to the front.

588
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 1: She went back to the front. They were both there crying.

589
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:30,320
Speaker 1: We had myself, that was probably a good fifteen minutes

590
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 1: that we were searching for them inside the corn mais

591
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,439
Speaker 1: thinking they were there, and they were outside, and there

592
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: were police crawling all over this place. So the kids

593
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 1: would have been fine, but it was a little while before,

594
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 1: you know, And if we hadn't found them, we then

595
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:45,279
Speaker 1: would have called. But I don't think this is such

596
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 1: a long time for this mom to not have called

597
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 1: the police. You search, you call your family, you say,

598
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:51,759
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I can't find her. I could be

599
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 1: wrong on this. I know we all have good instincts,

600
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 1: but I do not see this as the mom having

601
00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:00,359
Speaker 1: done this. And I will take responsibility if I'm wrong.

602
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 1: But I think this is somebody who was searching, searching, searching.

603
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,320
Speaker 1: Called her brother. He hardly said called the police. She

604
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 1: called the police, and she is in a panic, looking

605
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,399
Speaker 1: for her little daughter. We wait as the search goes

606
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 1: on for a five year old Dulcie Maria Alavaz. Tipline

607
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:18,239
Speaker 1: eight five six four five one zero zero three three

608
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 1: eight five six four five one zero zero three three

609
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 1: eight hundred call FBI. Nancy Grace crib Story, signing off

610
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:28,399
Speaker 1: goodbye friend