Speaker 1: Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heart Radio Podcast.
Speaker 2: This week's therapy, We've got Vivianna Coles. She has a
Speaker 2: masterclass out coming June tenth at twelve thirty pm Central.
Speaker 2: It's called Pillow Talk with Doctor Vivienna, a free masterclass
Speaker 2: to enhance your relationship. Let's get her on. Hi, Hi, Well,
Speaker 2: thank you so much for coming on the show. We
Speaker 2: really appreciate it. I'm Jana and this is my fiance.
Speaker 1: Alan, so, hey, hi, guys.
Speaker 2: I thought it'd be fun to bring him on for
Speaker 2: this one because it's all about intimacy.
Speaker 1: You don't know about it, you don't know yet, but
Speaker 1: you're in the hot seat and you can't leave.
Speaker 3: I know. There.
Speaker 2: Our heart was like, hey, do you think Alan can
Speaker 2: maybe join the show? And when you know and I
Speaker 2: knew the I saw it was you as a guest,
Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, man, do I tell him
Speaker 2: beforehand or do I just surprise him that, hey, babe,
Speaker 2: this is about I mean, it's not just about sex,
Speaker 2: but intimacy is so much more than sex, which which
Speaker 2: I think kind of for me is one of my
Speaker 2: first questions because I think for so long I just
Speaker 2: connected sex as intimacy and didn't realize that it's so
Speaker 2: much more than just being physical with someone.
Speaker 1: Well, and it's it could be so much more in general,
Speaker 1: but it's also more important whether or not your partner
Speaker 1: thinks it's so much more right and having that insight,
Speaker 1: So yeah, we can We're definitely gonna have to get
Speaker 1: into all of it.
Speaker 2: So what do you think with that? Like, how you
Speaker 2: know because I think or do you actually? Do you
Speaker 2: think that women need a little bit more of that
Speaker 2: intimacy before kind of getting into things.
Speaker 1: So a lot of times what I'm seeing because I've
Speaker 1: been now a therapist and seeing clients for like over
Speaker 1: twenty years and I predominantly work with this allan, so
Speaker 1: just know you're in good hands. I would say intimacy
Speaker 1: for women in general, like very broad terms. We usually
Speaker 1: want to have and feel the emotional connection before getting
Speaker 1: that physical connection, and oftentimes, but not always, men feel
Speaker 1: the opposite. Usually we get our wires crossed and we're
Speaker 1: kind of judgmental about each of them and we can't
Speaker 1: really understand how somebody would need to have the physical
Speaker 1: before they had the emotional and others like, well, how
Speaker 1: could you get the emotional with that, I mean it's
Speaker 1: like this whole wire's crossing.
Speaker 2: So with that, I will kind of bring this into
Speaker 2: our bedroom a little bit, because there's times when I'm like, babe,
Speaker 2: can you date me first? And I don't mean like
Speaker 2: take me on a physical day. I mean, sure, you
Speaker 2: know we have date nights and stuff, but he'll want
Speaker 2: to kind of just get right to it and if
Speaker 2: it's had, if it's been, maybe we don't ever go along.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not going to get too into our
Speaker 2: sexual life, but you know, I just sometimes want the
Speaker 2: little I want to be dated in bed a little
Speaker 2: bit before had sometimes not all the time.
Speaker 1: Don't apologize. This is exactly what we're talking about today,
Speaker 1: and it's going to be yeah, like don't apologize well.
Speaker 2: Because sometimes I like to just do it, and you know,
Speaker 2: I love that piece of it, like it's fun for
Speaker 2: me too, but I do I'd prefer the the dating
Speaker 2: in bed before and so but I almost feel and
Speaker 2: this isn't I almost feel like sometimes that's kind of
Speaker 2: not annoying to you, but just like why like I
Speaker 2: date you all day kind of vibe?
Speaker 3: No, I think, don't get misunderstood by this. We have
Speaker 3: a healthy relationship the most. Yeah. Yeah, So going back
Speaker 3: to your point about this is the tendency of what
Speaker 3: a woman may want and what a man may want
Speaker 3: when it comes to not just sex, but intimacy and
Speaker 3: affection and other things that go along with it. But
Speaker 3: with that, there's a there's a fine line with the
Speaker 3: man and the women feeling rejected because the needs are
Speaker 3: the opposites. Really like a man would probably and I
Speaker 3: think about like the cave Man era when it's like,
Speaker 3: I want to be spontaneous, I want to I want
Speaker 3: to make love, I want to have sex, but I
Speaker 3: want to be dated. I want to feel I want
Speaker 3: you to touch on my emotional side. So how do
Speaker 3: couples deal with like? I think they're really good at
Speaker 3: understanding each other. Yeah so, but a lot of couples
Speaker 3: wouldn't be like that. So how do they deal with
Speaker 3: the well, I feel rejected and the guys like, well,
Speaker 3: I feel rejected because I'm trying to make love to
Speaker 3: you and you don't want to and you want the
Speaker 3: emotion but you're not getting it, so that the women
Speaker 3: feels rejected. How does that? How do you how do
Speaker 3: you help couples with that?
Speaker 1: I love that question. And it's exactly what has been
Speaker 1: on my mind and on my radar to a really
Speaker 1: large extent in the recent past. Because so I like
Speaker 1: to call it an underlying current of sensuality, and I
Speaker 1: believe that every long term relationship should try to nurture
Speaker 1: that and maintain that. And what I mean by that
Speaker 1: is so that it doesn't feel like you're going from
Speaker 1: cold to hot or like you're having to flip with
Speaker 1: light switch on. It's important to have that underlying current
Speaker 1: of sensuality. And now I call it pillow talk. I
Speaker 1: want you to pillow talk outside of sexual experiences, outside
Speaker 1: of the bedroom, so that it makes sense to have sex.
Speaker 1: It makes sense when you come over to her and
Speaker 1: like mezzle her neck and she's not like wait what,
Speaker 1: like where is this coming from? Or the opposite where Janna,
Speaker 1: when you initiate and he's he's going to be like, wait,
Speaker 1: you even't like looked at me in a week now,
Speaker 1: obviously I don't know that that's your thing.
Speaker 2: We have a very strong sexual connection like that's probably
Speaker 2: it's it's great, like it's it's really it's great, Like
Speaker 2: I love it. So there is we're and we're always
Speaker 2: like touching and and like that's kind of our Like
Speaker 2: we're constantly like you know, touching and doing even through
Speaker 2: the house like a butt grab or a whatever. Like
Speaker 2: it's there's always some sort of physical touch during the day.
Speaker 2: But but sometimes you know, if it's yeah, if we
Speaker 2: had a busy day and then all of a sudden
Speaker 2: you're starting you're like, ah, like I kind of tired
Speaker 2: with three kids, and you know, but I think what
Speaker 2: you were kind of saying though, too is but both
Speaker 2: people want the same thing. I think it's some you know,
Speaker 2: they're both wanting the same thing. That might just the
Speaker 2: technique of getting there is where you come in.
Speaker 1: Well, you love each other, you like each other, you
Speaker 1: enjoy sex with each other, you have sex. But for
Speaker 1: a lot of couples, what I'm noticing is that it
Speaker 1: just feels like it comes out of nowhere, Like there's
Speaker 1: no real way to know that there is that kind
Speaker 1: of air between you. Doesn't sound like that's the case
Speaker 1: for you, It's not the case for me and my
Speaker 1: husband of nearly seventeen years. Like, I totally get it,
Speaker 1: I get it, but it always hasn't always been that way.
Speaker 1: A lot of couples struggle with that because life is
Speaker 1: life then and it gets in the way and all
Speaker 1: of that, and a lot of couples, especially those with
Speaker 1: children or with jobs or with property to manage all
Speaker 1: of that, and they don't do the touching, they don't
Speaker 1: do the kissing every day, They don't even say I
Speaker 1: love you every day. They just kind of assume it.
Speaker 1: And that's when sex can really kind of fall off
Speaker 1: the table.
Speaker 2: So to say, is there a number that you're like,
Speaker 2: this is what a this is what should be that
Speaker 2: you should be doing, or kind of a goal for
Speaker 2: how much sex you should be having. I know it's
Speaker 2: different for everybody, but I mean there's got to be something.
Speaker 2: I know all that. I know everybody's different. I totally
Speaker 2: get that, you know, what works for some people don't
Speaker 2: work for others, But you know, I mean for us
Speaker 2: as a what do you suggest?
Speaker 1: So what I suggest is twice a week to have
Speaker 1: some sort of sensual experience with one of them, hopefully
Speaker 1: being something maybe orgasmic, maybe intercourse related, maybe something more sexual,
Speaker 1: but at least two experiences. And again, what that is
Speaker 1: everybody looks different. I'm not going to yeah, you're young,
Speaker 1: you know whatever, but it could be like a massage,
Speaker 1: or it could be just laying together nude. It could
Speaker 1: be in the shower, just taking a shower together. It
Speaker 1: could be talking in the tub. It could be sex,
Speaker 1: It could be oral it you know, it could be
Speaker 1: any of those things, trying a new toy, role playing,
Speaker 1: any of that. I suggest twice a week to stay
Speaker 1: healthy good.
Speaker 3: I've got a question since you've you've done master classes
Speaker 3: and you're you're clearly an expert in your field, so
Speaker 3: I mean we're in a healthy phase. So what I
Speaker 3: don't want to do is talk about hours too much
Speaker 3: because we've got viewers and listeners. So I think putting
Speaker 3: it out to the to the masses on what may
Speaker 3: be issues for other people is how do people overcome
Speaker 3: like if they're in a relationship and those those resentment,
Speaker 3: or there's being disrespect or there's been periods of cheating,
Speaker 3: or even if it's something as simple as they've let
Speaker 3: themselves go and they're not attracted to each other any longer,
Speaker 3: how do people rescue the intimacy and affection and sex
Speaker 3: and those types of relationships with those those negative impacts.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, first of all, just acknowledging that in any
Speaker 1: long term relationship you're going to experience and those sorts
Speaker 1: of issues, you know. I think about it in terms of,
Speaker 1: like our planet has been hit countless times by meteors.
Speaker 1: They're not always big, but most of the time they're small.
Speaker 1: But it's going to happen. When you live long enough together,
Speaker 1: you're going to have something hit you. So you're not
Speaker 1: alone in that. And I think a lot of people
Speaker 1: question should we even be together if we're struggling with communication?
Speaker 1: Should we even be together if we're going through this drought,
Speaker 1: and they kind of go straight to this, Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: this hit us. Now can we even go you know,
Speaker 1: get through it? If you struggle with an issue for
Speaker 1: longer than six months on your own and you've tried
Speaker 1: whatever that looks like, quote unquote, I want you to
Speaker 1: get help professionally. If you want to invest in your
Speaker 1: long term relationship, just know relationship therapists, this is what
Speaker 1: we do day in and day out. We work with
Speaker 1: couples and we've seen I mean, especially if you've done
Speaker 1: it as long as I have, We've seen all sorts
Speaker 1: of things. We can help, but you have to seek
Speaker 1: it out otherwise you probably are going to experience blow
Speaker 1: after blow after blow and not a good way for
Speaker 1: a really long time. The other thing that I would
Speaker 1: say about overcoming it is acknowledging it. Acknowledge that there's
Speaker 1: an issue in the relationship so that your partner doesn't
Speaker 1: feel like they're alone or you know, sometimes when you're like, ah,
Speaker 1: they're kind of in a bad mood, I'm not really
Speaker 1: I don't really want to talk about it because I
Speaker 1: don't want to bring it up. It might make things worse.
Speaker 1: You're only going to make things worse if you don't
Speaker 1: bring it up, and so acknowledging it openly is very important.
Speaker 2: For the listener that feels rejected in this space of intimacy,
Speaker 2: What is your advice for that, because I, you know,
Speaker 2: not to bring up past stuff, but just relating off
Speaker 2: of past. When I had a partner that struggled with intimacy,
Speaker 2: all I thought was it was my belief that I
Speaker 2: wasn't either pretty enough or good enough, or it didn't.
Speaker 2: It just always kind of went back to what I
Speaker 2: was doing wrong or what I was doing wrong. And
Speaker 2: even I know now it had nothing to do with me,
Speaker 2: but and I can make sense of that now. But
Speaker 2: for the person that is trying to make sense of that.
Speaker 2: What would be something useful for them to kind of
Speaker 2: rest in in that, you know, place of not feeling
Speaker 2: like a feeling it's them.
Speaker 1: Well, again, I'm a big fan of therapy, so doing
Speaker 1: that also really finding out if it's very specifically that
Speaker 1: you're having troubles with intimacy. I would say read my
Speaker 1: book The Four Intimacy Styles. Take the quiz. It's a
Speaker 1: free quiz online. You can check that out to help
Speaker 1: you to at least start the language look like, know
Speaker 1: the terminology, know what you're talking about, so that it
Speaker 1: can start. You can start that communication with your partner.
Speaker 1: The other thing that I would tell you to do
Speaker 1: is don't go straight to the personal. Chances are there's
Speaker 1: a lot going on in your partner's life that it
Speaker 1: really has nothing to do with you, And so maybe
Speaker 1: starting off with that, like, hey, babe, I've noticed that
Speaker 1: you really haven't shown interest in me lately. What's going on?
Speaker 1: You know? Is there anything going on in life that
Speaker 1: I don't know about? Is there anything on the horizon
Speaker 1: do you see kind of the do you see the
Speaker 1: light in the tunnel? And maybe I can become aware
Speaker 1: of that. I just want to know where we stand
Speaker 1: with this. Don't think that asking is going to exacerbate
Speaker 1: the issue. That's part of the work of being in
Speaker 1: a long term relationship. You need to ask those hard questions.
Speaker 2: I think it's hard too because I have I know
Speaker 2: people that struggle with I've had a long day, I
Speaker 2: don't want to be intimate, like it's just and then
Speaker 2: the pressure of going, oh gosh, now they're going to
Speaker 2: want to because it's bedtime and having that anxiety of
Speaker 2: going to bed. Is it the same thing with that, like,
Speaker 2: communicate with them like, hey, I know you probably want to.
Speaker 2: I'm just not It's not you. It's like what do
Speaker 2: you do with that?
Speaker 1: Yeah? So I guess another little rule that I come
Speaker 1: up with that is just a guide more than anything,
Speaker 1: is don't reject your partner's sexual advances more than three
Speaker 1: times in a row, because without any sort of explanation, obviously,
Speaker 1: if you're feeling sick, if you're going out of town, like,
Speaker 1: there are certain things that you just can't do. But
Speaker 1: I would say again, part of nurturing that relationship is
Speaker 1: sometimes to suck it up and put yourself in that
Speaker 1: mood if you need to, you know, really date yourself.
Speaker 1: If you need to maybe do some tub time, or
Speaker 1: read an erotic book or listen to some audio erotica
Speaker 1: to get you into the mood, you know, ask for
Speaker 1: a massage, like do whatever it takes. But I would
Speaker 1: say more than three times in a row, and it
Speaker 1: starts to get where it's like, well, I'm not even
Speaker 1: going to try, and then it builds and turns into
Speaker 1: something so much more.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it comes back to like you've mentioned
Speaker 3: communication and how powerful that is, and I think I've
Speaker 3: always got and we speaking with us a lot, don't
Speaker 3: we We've always get the mindset of in order to
Speaker 3: maintain the intimacy and the power of the intimacy and
Speaker 3: our relationship, then we need to really maintain the purity
Speaker 3: of the relationship.
Speaker 1: What do you mean by that?
Speaker 3: I think in my head like intimacy goes when resentment
Speaker 3: comes in. If someone if someone has broken boundaries, are
Speaker 3: broken respect or the values of the relationship, then I
Speaker 3: think there becomes an issue. So I think we we
Speaker 3: really put that at the forefront of keeping the relationship.
Speaker 3: You are making sure your trust and respect. Is Is
Speaker 3: it the top of the Is it the top of
Speaker 3: the chain, because it limits the resentment. That limits the
Speaker 3: negative thoughts, It limits the voice inside your head or
Speaker 3: the voice inside my head. So I think we're really
Speaker 3: good at that side of that side of things, although
Speaker 3: we're not. We're not perfect, but we try and maintain
Speaker 3: and like intimacy that way.
Speaker 1: I love that trust and respect are they are huge
Speaker 1: hallmarks of a healthy relationship, and I have noticed that
Speaker 1: with my client. If respect has left, even if it's
Speaker 1: just you know, temporarily, like if people are starting to
Speaker 1: be out of talking, just awful to each other, that's
Speaker 1: the first thing I want to put a stop to.
Speaker 1: And that usually includes like, Okay, don't curse at each other,
Speaker 1: don't call each other names, don't be sarcastic, because if
Speaker 1: you're not in a good place, all of those things
Speaker 1: are just adding kindling, you know, to the issue. And
Speaker 1: so I love that. And then trust also reminding couples
Speaker 1: that sharing how you feel builds trust, withholding feelings breaks
Speaker 1: it down, whether you know it or not. So I
Speaker 1: love that that's something that you're encouraging your listeners and
Speaker 1: yourselves to do.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just think we never want them to be false.
Speaker 3: And if something is, if something is broken off ractual,
Speaker 3: then that antimacy can become false and that's something that
Speaker 3: we really cherished, don't they, Well, I.
Speaker 2: Think because we both know how much it can fracture
Speaker 2: a relationship. Yeah, so it's important into us to keep
Speaker 2: that at the top for sure. What is something that
Speaker 2: you when what's the first I mean is it is
Speaker 2: it the you know, swearing at each other or like,
Speaker 2: what's the what's one of the things that you when
Speaker 2: you're sitting with your couples that you're just like, oh, like,
Speaker 2: I wish they would just stop this one thing.
Speaker 1: Assuming that they know exactly what their partner is thinking
Speaker 1: or what's going to come out on their mouths. That
Speaker 1: happens all the time. And if you're with somebody along
Speaker 1: and maybe you might be right, But when you're trying
Speaker 1: to do things differently and you're hoping to change the
Speaker 1: dynamics of your relationship, the first thing you need to
Speaker 1: do is is not assume that you know exactly what's
Speaker 1: going to happen, because then you're basically cutting it off
Speaker 1: at the knees. You're cutting change off at the knees. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: don't do that.
Speaker 2: I do have one quick because you're you know, obviously
Speaker 2: you sit with couples, and I was watching an interview
Speaker 2: another podcast, I think it was Nick Biles where he
Speaker 2: had a therapist on. There he was and the lady
Speaker 2: was saying, you know, she actually was saying that sometimes
Speaker 2: couple's therapy is you know, it's not that she's saying
Speaker 2: it's not good, but sometimes it's it's not really helpful
Speaker 2: because it's you're bringing up so much stuff that's it's
Speaker 2: almost like causing more issues. Is that what's kind of
Speaker 2: your And I don't know exactly how it was said,
Speaker 2: It kind of just like hurt a little snippet of it.
Speaker 1: Certainly. Yeah, No, I feel like I've experienced that too.
Speaker 1: But as a therapist, I will tell them, I'll be like, hey,
Speaker 1: it sounds like, you know, we've dug up something that
Speaker 1: you had already you know, worked on and had resolved.
Speaker 1: Is there something new that y'all need to work on
Speaker 1: or can we actually put that to bed. Unfortunately, some
Speaker 1: therapists maybe maybe they're newer, they're inexperience, they don't know
Speaker 1: that they should acknowledge that, and sometimes therapy is is
Speaker 1: not what's necessary. Sometimes it's actually just practicing these things
Speaker 1: at home. And that's why I'll go, you know, with
Speaker 1: clients that maybe I saw first for you know, three
Speaker 1: times a week, I'll go, and then it'll be once
Speaker 1: every four months just for a check in, and sometimes
Speaker 1: they need guidance with that. But you're right, there are
Speaker 1: times where if a couple has worked through something and
Speaker 1: you bring it back up, they're going to leave feeling like, wait,
Speaker 1: what did we just We didn't work on anything, We
Speaker 1: just dug step up. So you have to be really
Speaker 1: good about making sure that that's not the case.
Speaker 2: So what can listeners expect from your free masterclass to
Speaker 2: enhance the relationship? Like, what are some of the biggest
Speaker 2: takeaways that they're going to get from that?
Speaker 1: The biggest takeaways are that you're going to learn how
Speaker 1: you behave towards each other, how you show or don't
Speaker 1: show sexual interest in your partner outside of the bedroom
Speaker 1: is actually far more important in the long term than
Speaker 1: what is going on inside the bedroom. It can really
Speaker 1: make your day or not. It can really ruin things.
Speaker 1: It can erode your communication, your trust, your respect, all
Speaker 1: of those things. If you feel like you just don't
Speaker 1: know if your partner wants you or if you want them,
Speaker 1: So talking about that, the different types of pillow talk.
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about that. I'm going to be
Speaker 1: sharing a way to figure out what yours is, and
Speaker 1: then of course sharing the best way to pillow talk
Speaker 1: and making sure that you can keep that spark alive
Speaker 1: for as long as you'd like.
Speaker 2: Wait, I want to know what the best one is,
Speaker 2: and I know you can't tell me because people want
Speaker 2: But now I know and are.
Speaker 1: Going to have to be there on June time, June tu.
Speaker 2: I'm like, what's because I'm always like, all right, give
Speaker 2: me the give me the lesson plan, like what's the
Speaker 2: best thing, Like what can we because I'm always wanting
Speaker 2: to learn and practice, and so I'm like, what is it?
Speaker 1: I know, I know you want to know. I'll have
Speaker 1: to be am you on the.
Speaker 2: Side, but no, thanks, girl, I want you to be there.
Speaker 1: I feel like it's so important for people in community
Speaker 1: to know, like whether you're in a really great relationship
Speaker 1: and you just want to maintain it or you're really
Speaker 1: struggling knowing these things and taking the time out to
Speaker 1: take an hour out of your day for free to
Speaker 1: learn on about these things as part of the work
Speaker 1: of being in a long term relationship. So I'm going
Speaker 1: to make you work for it too, Janna.
Speaker 2: I love that. And then also you have your book too, the.
Speaker 1: Four Intimacy Styles, and you can check that out at
Speaker 1: doctor Viviana dot com. There's a free quiz that you
Speaker 1: can take there to learn what percentage of each of
Speaker 1: the four you're at alan, just so you know, the
Speaker 1: goal is to be at twenty five percenter as close
Speaker 1: to twenty five percent of each during each or every
Speaker 1: nearly every sexual experience. You can take that quiz and
Speaker 1: see where you're at, and you and Janet can compare notes.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much for coming on the show.
Speaker 2: I really really really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Thanks and thanks for sharing some of your experiences. But
Speaker 1: more than anything, I think you're right. We need to
Speaker 1: be talking about these things more in general, because any
Speaker 1: given day is different in your relationship and if you
Speaker 1: want to long term one pillow talk is the key,
Speaker 1: and the four Intimacy Styles can help.
Speaker 2: Okay, awesome, Thank you so much, appreciate it. Thanks you guys,
Speaker 2: all right bye, Henny